Antimasker Sued Whole Foods, got legal smackdown by judge

February 1, 2022 11:19 PM

Ryan Manning went to Whole Foods in Dedham, MA on Jan 4th, 2021 during a local mask mandate. He was told to mask up, the two local managers told him to mask up. He chose to leave the premises, summoned police and claimed his civil rights were being violated. They returned to the store, where he refused accommodations such as have someone shop for him, or taking a temperature check. He filed a lawsuit in May in the Federal District Court where he went "pro se" (representing himself) alleging eight different violations including "harassment", "false imprisonment", and "unlicensed practice of medicine". He cited his reason to not wear a mask as "masks are a part of satanic rituals" and "he cannot slowly commit suicide by lowering his immune system and depriving himself of oxygen". A decision was handed down in late January 2022..

EVERY one of his eight counts was dismissed. The judge refuted each of his points with a ton of citations for badly applied law (such as trying to use a criminal statute for civil relief), even helped him cite a law where he did not include one (and refuted its application nonetheless) and cited his own pleading against himself. In the end, the judge has this to say:

In closing, the Court cannot help but note the following: despite the myriad of claims brought by Plaintiff, there is no constitutional, statutory, or common law right to jeopardize the health of others by shopping in a Whole Foods, without a mask, in contravention of its prudent policy, during a mass pandemic. If your heart is set on products from a market with a mask requirement and you can't or won't wear a mask, your choices are to get your food delivered, have someone else shop for you, or reconsider wearing a mask for your own health and the good health of the other shoppers.

Manning v. Whole Foods Mkt. Grp., Civil Action 21-cv-10833-ADB, 15 n.5 (D. Mass. Jan. 21, 2022)

Bravo, Judge Burroughs. Bravo.

posted by kschang (54 comments total)

Covid killed ~2000 people in the US per day last month, 3500 today, the vast majority clowns like this guy.

My BIL and sister are similar anti-maskers and finally got hit pretty bad with it, in the omicron wave. She said ivermectin helped them, but I haven't bothered to follow up.

I can't even can't even -- ever since the lunatic right turned against preventative measures.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 11:32 PM on February 1, 2022 [21 favorites]

This is what irritates me Heywood Mogroot III- antivaxers are also increasingly anti-maskers. (My in laws are well down the anti-vax rabbit hole but would wear masks earlier on in the pandemic.)

It's so gross but also lets you know who to avoid (especially with your unmasked, unvaxxed under 2yo in tow.)
posted by freethefeet at 11:44 PM on February 1, 2022 [4 favorites]

he went "pro se" (representing himself)

.. and, just as old saying predicts, he found himself with a fool for a client.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:13 AM on February 2, 2022 [26 favorites]

Man does that guy live in the wrong state for those sorts of hijinks. Massachusetts-based courts (even federal courts) and pro se plaintiffs? Don't think so. That much more than any notion that Massachusetts is super "progressive" because it ain't.

Live in a bubble, learn that you live in a society. Wish this resulted more often in consequences for ignorant white people.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 12:19 AM on February 2, 2022 [20 favorites]

learn that you live in a society

Requisite Seinfeld clip.
posted by fairmettle at 12:54 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]

Yes, the federal court in Massachusetts is unusually unforgiving, to the point of being punishing. I had an appearance in that court for a motion when my wife went into labor, and the judge wouldn't hear an oral request for an adjournment because "all motions are required to be in writing." That's not the place to bring this kind of frivolous suit.
posted by 1adam12 at 1:11 AM on February 2, 2022 [5 favorites]

Loved seeing an antimasker finally get shut down by the courts. Other than having his ass handed to him on official record, are there any punitive measures or financial penalties for filing a frivolous lawsuit?
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:45 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]

It's a mental health crisis. People became isolated and their circles shrank, suddenly there wasn't the same social pressure to prune away the delusions. Could you imagine going into a crowded classroom or workplace and giving your little speech about satanic rituals before the pandemic? You'd quickly learn to keep your ideas to yourself or drop them entirely. I think we've underestimated the power of public embarrassment to steer people towards sanity. These delusions can only thrive away from common sense, away from exposure to common people, in isolation. And a lot of people have become very isolated. Worse, they further enbubble themselves by mainlining media, politicians and online communities that reinforce their delusions.

What has all this done to our brains? How many people are living in reality bubbles, and how are we going to help them out of it?
posted by adept256 at 2:07 AM on February 2, 2022 [48 favorites]

Requisite Seinfeld clip.

I clicked expecting this one.
posted by Paul Slade at 4:17 AM on February 2, 2022

I still don't understand the freakout about masks. Other than having my glasses fog a bit if I don't cinch the wire on my nose tightly enough, I barely notice when I'm wearing one.
posted by octothorpe at 4:34 AM on February 2, 2022 [10 favorites]

The freakout about masks has nothing - N O T H I N G - to do with any possible practical issues with wearing them, it's entirely about tribal signaling, staking your place amongst "Real Americans" who won't let the government or those sissy liberals tell you what to do, especially about some "pandemic" that is at best an overreaction by a bunch of namby-pamby worrywarts and at worst part of some vast nefarious plot to disempower or even kill a bunch of Real Americans.

All the wharglebargle about "low oxygen levels" or whatfuckingever is just a semi-plausible-sounding veneer of Reasons on top of a raging roil of resentment.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:55 AM on February 2, 2022 [72 favorites]

The freakout about masks is not about the masks. It is about being told to wear one.

You know, morons.

EDIT: Snap!
posted by Pouteria at 4:57 AM on February 2, 2022 [16 favorites]

who won't let the government or those sissy liberals tell you what to do, especially about some "pandemic" that is at best an overreaction by a bunch of namby-pamby worrywarts

This is everything now. It's super exhausting. We are having bad snow in Chicago and you see these in the city's Instagram comments..."It's snow, why the panic, it's pathetic how scared people are of weather, etc." As if it isn't true that local government has a responsibility to warn people about danger. That public health initiatives save lives and that's all they are intended to do. These people saying advisories translate to "panic" or "overreaction" is clearly an attempt to show how completely "calm" and "rational" the complainer is.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:02 AM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]

soundguy99 has it. If Trump had said that wearing masks was a public duty to protect America and Tucker Carlson, et al. had amplified that message, we would have had armed MAGAhats standing outside supermarkets to enforce mask mandates via intimidation. Instead, he tried to minimize the threat of the pandemic at first and once that ball got rolling with his followers it couldn’t be stopped.
posted by slkinsey at 5:10 AM on February 2, 2022 [28 favorites]

adept256: except a lot of these people aren't staying home isolating themselves.
posted by pelvicsorcery at 5:17 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]

adept256: except a lot of these people aren't staying home isolating themselves.

But many of the people who would call them on their bullshit are.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:30 AM on February 2, 2022 [7 favorites]

>he went "pro se" (representing himself)

Pro-se (representing yourself) is illogical nonsense. All the best Sovereign Citizens know that to succeed you appear before the court in propria persona (in one's own person).
posted by mikelieman at 5:57 AM on February 2, 2022 [11 favorites]

I absolutely do not understand the persistence of the "masks are dangerous and prevent oxygen intake" bullshit.

I mean: a quick Google image search of surgeons returns thousands upon thousands of pictures of literal doctors wearing masks for hours at a time, which they have done for around sixty years, with no ill effects.

I mean, yes: every aspect of the anti-mask argument is nonsense.

But this particular piece of the argument... I mean, fucking look: that is transparently not true.

Even if they somehow don't want to acknowledge that, what about neck gaiters? Those block no more airflow than a scarf. Is the Northeast full of people dying from their scarves four months a year? Chrissakes.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:00 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]

When you're in law school, you read decisions like this for every class. It's often satisfying, especially when there's an acerbic judge behind them.* That's how you learn the law -- a logic puzzle, a matching game. What you don't see is the human cost of each decision that gets so far that it goes to trial: the social conditions leading up to the complaint, what each party suffered to pay for the lawyers or do the legal work themselves.** (And the work of jumping through the hoops is considerable, even if you are pro se and a dipshit, as above.)

All of which is to say, I am glad for this post, but it gave me a hollow feeling. All the cites and statutes: what are they for? Moving the machinery of the state, of course; they still do that. But how much longer will they be able to do that against the salt-water flooding of this weaponized imbecility, this corrosion of the premise of a shared reality?

-----
* In my time, a favorite judicial writer was Judge Samuel Kent, who has since gone to prison for lying under oath about his various sexual assaults.
** This wasn't always true; certainly we talked about the circumstances of civil rights cases and some other extraordinary ones. And I bet it's hardly true at all in law school now, since I graduated just before the legal market shit itself inside out in the 2000s, and I dare say they have a different breed of student now.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:13 AM on February 2, 2022 [19 favorites]

I still don't understand the freakout about masks. Other than having my glasses fog a bit if I don't cinch the wire on my nose tightly enough, I barely notice when I'm wearing one.

I am fully on record that wearing masks is a goddamn nightmare. My face has been sweaty and damp for two years now. My nose literally never stops running. Hot weather, cold weather, doesn't matter--the microclimate of a good mask causes me to just gush snot nonstop. I haven't had a decent workout since we had to pivot to KN-95s. My face is small and my nose is huge, so masks spend most of their time jabbing directly into my eyes. It SUCKS. I hate every minute of it.

It's infuriating because if assholes like this one could be a goddamn grownup for a second we could ALL FUCKING STOP IT sooner than later. I wanna wring my mask snot into every soda this dipshit drinks for as long as I still have to wear them.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 6:38 AM on February 2, 2022 [29 favorites]

I'm right there with blast hardcheese: I will 100% wear masks for as long as it takes, but it's annoying as fuck. I would never treat my comfort as more important than someone else's health, but I also won't pretend a mask is just something super chill I can forget I am wearing.

There is something about the pitch of my voice, combined with the slightly degraded pronunciation of my Mid-South accent that makes me (apparently) very hard to understand when I am speaking with a mask. I end up having to use a stage voice or people just have no fucking idea what I am saying.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:43 AM on February 2, 2022 [6 favorites]

Thank you for structuring this post to include the the relevant case document.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:44 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]

Other than having my glasses fog a bit if I don't cinch the wire on my nose tightly enough, I barely notice when I'm wearing one.

I have a large head (can rarely find hats that fit), and ear loops dig into my ears and are uncomfortable or they slip off. I am still looking for a comfortable N95. The head loops make them tight to the point of being literally painful. I've given away a bunch that are simply unwearable for me. Fortunately, I can afford to give away $80 worth of masks, but not everyone can. I am still trying out N95 masks trying to find one that is more comfortable for the hours I spend in chemotherapy three of every four Fridays.

Even if I weren't immunocompromised, I would be wearing masks because it is the right thing to do, but it's simply not true that masks are reasonably comfortable for everyone.
posted by FencingGal at 6:52 AM on February 2, 2022 [4 favorites]

The head loops make them tight to the point of being literally painful.

FYI, cutting the loops and inserting an extra length of cord has worked for a few people I know. Setting up the knots so they don't chafe is apparently a bit of an art but they're happy with their solution.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:18 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]

The greatest trick those Nazi devils at Fox news and the fascist internet ever pulled was convincing people that being an unforgivable asshole is your patriotic duty.
posted by BigLankyBastard at 7:47 AM on February 2, 2022 [22 favorites]

@MaraWilson: Anytime I see someone with a mask and unfogged glasses I bow to them, because I have clearly just met a fucking powerful wizard
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:53 AM on February 2, 2022 [18 favorites]

Could you imagine going into a crowded classroom or workplace and giving your little speech about satanic rituals before the pandemic?

People did things like this before the pandemic. The difference was that previously they wouldn’t have had the GOP and billion-dollar companies promoting their message as a critical battle for freedom. I’m sure social isolation factors in a bit but the real problem is that Trump & the Fox cadre tried to politicize the pandemic response because some businesses such as Trump’s didn’t want to close or go remote. Once they started attacking mask mandates, they gave cover and support to the loons because they were attacking the same targets.
posted by adamsc at 8:01 AM on February 2, 2022 [10 favorites]

Trump & the Fox cadre tried to politicize the pandemic response because some businesses such as Trump’s didn’t want to close or go remote

Well that and early on they assumed that a contagious disease would be entirely a "blue city" (a.k.a. not White people and not Trump supporters) problem so fuck 'em.
posted by soundguy99 at 8:14 AM on February 2, 2022 [10 favorites]

If Trump had said that wearing masks was a public duty to protect America and Tucker Carlson, et al. had amplified that message, we would have had armed MAGAhats standing outside supermarkets to enforce mask mandates via intimidation.

Over Thanksgiving I had a Trump-supporting doctor relative (fully vaxxed) say to me with a straight face that the reason so many people aren't vaccinated is the Democrats' fault, because they politicized it back when Trump fast-tracked vaccine development and Andrew Cuomo said that we needed to wait and see whether the science would be safe and Democrats refused to trust Trump about them. So now of course Republicans can't trust it. (???!?!??)
posted by Mchelly at 8:25 AM on February 2, 2022 [6 favorites]

Mask's efficiency has never been the issue. It's just some ad hoc BS they came up with that sounds pseudo-scientific. And some of the stuff they came up with really makes you think if they are right in the head, or they practiced saying that aloud, such as "breath in your own funk". Yet we actually heard this plead with (what I assume to be) sincerity at school board meetings. Yet others claimed that "masking children makes them easier prey for child predators". WTF?! That's almost as absurd as Union of Concerned Scientists claimed "shutters" equipped on enemy missiles can defeat Reagan's Star Wars system.

But the real danger here is masks and vaccines being politicized as a "freedom" issue. All the governors who tried to ban mask mandate in schools framed it as a freedom issue. Like "I will not allow our parents' rights to be trampled", even though it's been LONG held that children in school have fewer rights. Federal Worker Union were saying things like "uh, (we like vaccinations but you can't just mandate that,) it should be a part of labor contract negotiations" when Biden administration first floated the mandate via OSHA. And just look at the number of hospital and emergency workers who refused to vaccinate and decided to act the martyr.

It's as if "public service", i.e. keeping the public safe, does not include one's own health and responsibility to stay disease free as much as possible.

Then there are the antivaxxers actively polluting the VAERS database with bogus entries about children getting myocarditis after a vaccine shot, then have others who dumpster-dive VAERS and publicize that as "truth about vaccines", all the while pleading for donations for "keeping speech free". It's as if we're under a multi-vector psy-ops attack.
posted by kschang at 8:39 AM on February 2, 2022 [4 favorites]

From Day One this should have been framed by businesses as:

No mask
No shirt
No shoes
No entry

No one cries or whines about having to wear a shirt in a business.

I work in a fancy-pants retail/B2B garden center. So mostly outdoors, some indoors work. 40 hours a week in cold weather, hot humid weather, rain, etc. We wear masks at work. Sure, there's times we take them off to drink, or to adjust them, or to wipe sweat. And even sometimes when there's no one around (it's a very large place). But around staff, around customers? Masks. Always.

Some employees are in their 60s. All of us wear masks. Sometimes it's unpleasant. But we do it, and no one has had issues with doing physical labor in the heat wearing masks. Most customers comply, but we're a hobby business (not necessary, like a grocery store, etc) in a deep blue city in a very LGBTQ+ neighborhood. We've had some "masskholes" but a small number of them.

I tell the mask-less to put on a mask. Most do, as they forgot to when coming in or whatever. But the ones who are problems? I tell them: "You gotta wear shoes, a shirt and a face mask covering your mouth and nose to shop here. No exceptions." In two+ years I've only had a couple people walk out in a huff about it. Some of my co workers have encountered some ugly scenes.

Grateful to work in a place like this. I can't imagine what some workers have to go through.
posted by SoberHighland at 8:43 AM on February 2, 2022 [17 favorites]

I don’t think it was a mental health crisis so much as “own the libs” trolling. Although if the plaintiff seriously believed he had any chance of winning the case, then maybe it was. A huge waste of everyone’s time, certainly.
posted by scratch at 9:57 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]

Back at the very beginning I predicted Americans weren't going to take mask mandates well. Only Bad Guys wear masks which cover their mouths; Good Guys' masks cover their eyes (like Batman and the Lone Ranger). Maybe because the latter have better teeth?
posted by Rash at 10:02 AM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]

Super highland, many school districts short-circuited ‘mask resistance’ by simply making them part of the dress code..
posted by TDIpod at 10:21 AM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]

adept256: except a lot of these people aren't staying home isolating themselves.

I’m actually not sure that is true either. I think they are, or at least were- and that’s why the “grocery stores enforcing mask policy is an affront to my liberty!” Issue comes up- they’re not going anywhere else. Those that really didn’t feel concerned enough to keep them in, or felt the need to go out bed be social, as many extroverts did, were not making a big deal, they just went out and about in their lives, found the underground gathers, the bars that were fast and loose with pick up only, etc…

My guess is the vast majority either had work go remote or their jobs were eliminated and they didn’t have much else going on outside of the social interactions work provided. They probably had their zany and/or surly political leanings at work, but got implicit and explicit feedback when it got too crazy.

Without it, throw in some radicalizing feedback and no eye rolls from colleagues and we have lift-off.

But just a guess backed up by minimal observation. Though seriously, those that were going out when most people were isolating were not the ones developing conspiracy theories… they were just going out.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 12:38 PM on February 2, 2022

For those who are having trouble finding a N95 mask to fit, I have been relying on these I have a giant head, and I have to wear a mask at work and on public transit, so basically all day. They don't pinch, and the seal feels tight enough.
posted by SaharaRose at 1:39 PM on February 2, 2022 [2 favorites]

Your p**s-poor internet logic and associated pigeon chess is not tolerated in a court of law. You can't make unsubstantiated claims and expect to be taken seriously.
posted by AJScease at 2:21 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]

Recently an anti-masker said to me, as I was wearing a mask, "You should try thinking for yourself."

To which I replied, "I did think for myself. I thought, 'Self, are you an expert in contagious diseases? No, you are not. You are an expert in Blue Note vinyl pressings from 1948 to 1988 and when Fauci and others speak up on that topic, you should chime in. Until then, shut the fuck up and listen to the experts."

I don't have a proper storefront anymore, but I fear that if I did and one of these idiots tried this shit I would beat them to death with a bat and dump them on the sidewalk as a warning to others. I honestly do not know how the behaviour of these monsters has not led to more butchery and I'm in awe of the restraint of some of these proprietors and wage-workers.
posted by dobbs at 2:27 PM on February 2, 2022 [18 favorites]

I also suspect that whatever industry these people are in -- whether they're office workers, plumbers, politicians -- whatever, that they would have disdain for anyone outside that industry who purported to know more about their job than they do.

Yet, they run around trying to tell doctors and epidemiologists and scientists their business. It's lunacy.
posted by dobbs at 2:30 PM on February 2, 2022 [3 favorites]

I'm pleased to see a rare case where justice is applied in alignment with common sense. It's a shame dickheads like this don't have to face any consequences for the expenditure of public money to deal with their bullshit that increasingly clogs up the court system.
posted by dg at 3:09 PM on February 2, 2022

I honestly do not know how the behaviour of these monsters has not led to more butchery and I'm in awe of the restraint of some of these proprietors and wage-workers.

Because there are very few proprietors left while wage-workers who engage get immediately fired by capital who are managing things from home and consider these nutjobs that they never actually interact with as "valuable customers".
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 4:09 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]

Can anybody figure out who the mysterious Mackay is? This was the defendant who didn't bother to file for dismissal, and the judge dismissed it for them any way, sua sponte, which sounded like him muttering "you can thank me later" under his breath.
posted by dum spiro spero at 4:30 PM on February 2, 2022

@pelvicsorcery: except a lot of these people aren't staying home isolating themselves.

Like those truckers protesting in Canada, infiltrated by the Good Ol' Boys flying Confederate flags?
posted by kschang at 4:33 PM on February 2, 2022

@dum spiro spero: there is a John P. Mackey named as co-defendent along with the two managers and Whole Foods. That's CEO of Whole Foods.
posted by kschang at 4:47 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]

Nirav Shah, M.D., head of the Maine CDC, went on a lengthy tear on twitter, using the hashtag #blizard2022 to mock covid-mask-vax-deniers.

ex: Nirav D. Shah @nirav_mainecdc · Jan 28
Yes, meteorologists like @KeithCarson have immersed themselves in mastering their field for years, studying the intricacies of physics and mathematical modeling.

But this person on Facebook says the storm tomorrow isn't going to be that big of a deal, so I'm going with that.
posted by theora55 at 7:19 PM on February 2, 2022 [4 favorites]

it's entirely about tribal signaling, staking your place amongst "Real Americans" who won't let the government or those sissy liberals tell you what to do

It was pretty clear to me from the get-go that the entirely confected principle behind the Right's opposition to masking up in public was an attempt to be consistent with its entirely confected opposition to burqas, that opposition itself predicated on the entirely confected basis that an entirely confected Western Tradition was under an entirely confected existential threat from people who fail to show their faces in public. They'd painted themselves into a conceptual corner and felt a need to double down, facts be damned.

It's never been about anything other than a pathetically transparent attempt to manufacture pathetically transparent excuses for knee-jerk anti-Muslim bigotry by pathetically transparent grifters seeking to whip up spurious "debate" for the sake of their own self-aggrandizement.

Quite satisfying to see this particular self-aggrandizing clown get such a comprehensive slapdown.
posted by flabdablet at 7:40 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]

It was pretty clear to me from the get-go that the entirely confected principle behind the Right's opposition to masking up in public was an attempt to be consistent with its entirely confected opposition to burqas, that opposition itself predicated on the entirely confected basis that an entirely confected Western Tradition was under an entirely confected existential threat from people who fail to show their faces in public. They'd painted themselves into a conceptual corner and felt a need to double down, facts be damned.

Really? I think it was more Trump settled on pandemic denialism in the early stages of the pandemic in order to quell economic fears and stop the stock market from falling. Once the pandemic was turned into a partisan issue instead of public health the true believers were cool to unleash the fucking insanity. Trump supporter? The pandemic doesn't exist. It never existed, at least as an existential threat to the United States. It's a non-event to them.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:14 PM on February 2, 2022 [5 favorites]

Media coverage and the Right's specific selection of shouting heads was probably different where you were. The Visible Faces Good, Covered Faces Bad through-line was absolutely crystal clear here in Australia from the very early days of the pandemic.
posted by flabdablet at 9:29 PM on February 2, 2022 [1 favorite]

@Your Childhood Pet Rock wrote:
>>Trump supporter? The pandemic doesn't exist. It never existed, at least as an existential threat to the United States. It's a non-event to them.

Or the latest take from Prasad and his ilk: COVID does exist, but we ignore it it'll go away because it's "endemic". They go by "normalcy" nowadays. "Let's just return to normal!" Open everything up once the omicron wave calms down a bit! We'll be fine! They proclaimed.

Not as long as we still have unvaxxed and unboosted folks out there who are breeding the COVID virus. Right now, it seems schools are the breeding grounds, as the children are the most likely asymptomatic carriers of the virus who gets to mix and play (and in many states, "without masks!" and for some ages, without vaccines) and take it home. Actually seen supposed parents in all caps calling out other parents who follow CDC guidelines and report potential COVID symptoms of their kids to the school, which roughly translates to "how dare you prevent my kids from going to school! I need to work so I need them out of the house!"
posted by kschang at 7:48 AM on February 3, 2022

I'm one of those people who don't mind masking, but find N95 and similar standard masks very uncomfortable at the skin-mask interface around the mouth and nose and around the ears. I follow a lot of HCP on social media who are involved in frontline COVID care and I saw a ICU nurse recommend an Envomask which she uses instead of the disposable type. It has a soft silicon seal around the mouth and nose and head bands that don't hit the sensitive spot behind the ears. The filter disk is replaceable, so the overall waste is less, since you can just swap in a new disk as necessary. The reusable head piece can be hand washed.
posted by longdaysjourney at 7:50 AM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]

Trump supporter? The pandemic doesn't exist. It never existed, at least as an existential threat to the United States. It's a non-event to them.

What I've heard from the beginning is "It's just like the flu." You know, sure, some people die from the flu, but most people feel lousy for a few days and then get better, and no one has to wear a mask. It's the kind of stubborn denial that's rooted in something they already think they know, so it's much harder to uproot.
posted by Mchelly at 10:06 AM on February 3, 2022 [1 favorite]

I don't have a proper storefront anymore, but I fear that if I did and one of these idiots tried this shit I would beat them to death with a bat and dump them on the sidewalk as a warning to others.

Sure you would tough guy.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:04 PM on February 3, 2022

Sure you would tough guy.

It's not toughness. It's exasperation and exhaustion. My father died of Covid before the vaccines were available. If you don't think the carelessness and selfishness of these idiot man- and woman-children has broken every last straw of the sane you're no smarter than they are.
posted by dobbs at 6:33 PM on February 3, 2022 [5 favorites]

We have people like Jay Bhattacharya (signer of GBD) stating "you have a small group of people who wanted to created an illusion of scientific consensus" (when interviewed on Fox News)

What he didn't say is HE is that small group, who kept floating fiction along with Prasad and the rest of GBD and supporters (such as Ladapo in Florida) that COVID wasn't serious, and lockdowns were not justified.

Back in March 2020, he was interviewed by Hoover institution's Peter Robinson, where he was specifically asked about the quote

If it's true that the coronavirus would kill millions without shelter-in-place orders and quarantines, then the extraordinary measures are surely justified, but there's little evidence "to confirm that premise."

Now they are proclaiming victory because we implemented lockdown, and now the deaths are "approaching" 1 million in the US.

They were debating how right was Fauci claiming that COVID was 10x more deadly than the flu. And Jay was claiming it's the opposite, that flu was more deadly than COVID. And basically we're locking down for nothing.

History had proven him wrong. Yet here Jay is still, 2 years later, still peddling the SAME nonsense thinking GBD was right and how the mainstream media EXCEPT FoxNews were smearing them by pointing out their failures.
posted by kschang at 11:46 AM on February 4, 2022