The Curious Tale of the Pizza Hut that Wasn't a Pizza Hut
February 3, 2022 8:52 PM Subscribe
Addison Del Mastro noticed something a little off about a Pizza Hut restaurant in Landover, Maryland. Solving this small puzzle of everyday architectural history leads to musing about times and places in the recent past that are poorly document and rapidly slipping into oblivion.
That was interesting, thank you - particularly the points at the end about potentially unrecoverable history.
posted by paduasoy at 10:12 PM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by paduasoy at 10:12 PM on February 3, 2022 [3 favorites]
That's pretty fascinating! And yeah, it's amazing how big swathes of recent history are unfindable.
Sidenote: I really wish there was information about subscription prices. I'm interested, but the only way to find the price appears to be to sign up and I'm not going to do that.
posted by tavella at 10:15 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Sidenote: I really wish there was information about subscription prices. I'm interested, but the only way to find the price appears to be to sign up and I'm not going to do that.
posted by tavella at 10:15 PM on February 3, 2022 [2 favorites]
Three thoughts:
1) Online publishing is a fantastic way of distributing information, but a truly terrible way of preserving it*. We ought to be able to hold these two ideas in our head at once.
2) Just because a piece of information hasn't been digitised and put online, that doesn't mean it no longer exists There are whole libraries out there full of paper records and books that have never been digitised and - in the case of the more obscure material - probably never will be. But the information's still there, and can still be retrieved by a determined researcher.
3) A subscription to Newspapers.com is relatively affordable ($139 a year) and gives you access to a vast archive of old (sometimes very old) American newspapers. Just as important, the search engine there is excellent.
* I know there are technical solutions to this, but the problem is they all cost money. That means the conversion/preservation process only happens for information which someone thinks can still generate a profit. The key question for me is "What happens in a case of benign neglect?" In the case of a book, unless someone makes a deliberate effort to destroy it, it can remain intact and readable with no intervening technology for centuries. Contrast that with the old floppy discs I've still got from my Amstrad word processor - 30 years old at most - and the hoops I'd have to jump through to access that information today.
posted by Paul Slade at 1:05 AM on February 4, 2022 [21 favorites]
1) Online publishing is a fantastic way of distributing information, but a truly terrible way of preserving it*. We ought to be able to hold these two ideas in our head at once.
2) Just because a piece of information hasn't been digitised and put online, that doesn't mean it no longer exists There are whole libraries out there full of paper records and books that have never been digitised and - in the case of the more obscure material - probably never will be. But the information's still there, and can still be retrieved by a determined researcher.
3) A subscription to Newspapers.com is relatively affordable ($139 a year) and gives you access to a vast archive of old (sometimes very old) American newspapers. Just as important, the search engine there is excellent.
* I know there are technical solutions to this, but the problem is they all cost money. That means the conversion/preservation process only happens for information which someone thinks can still generate a profit. The key question for me is "What happens in a case of benign neglect?" In the case of a book, unless someone makes a deliberate effort to destroy it, it can remain intact and readable with no intervening technology for centuries. Contrast that with the old floppy discs I've still got from my Amstrad word processor - 30 years old at most - and the hoops I'd have to jump through to access that information today.
posted by Paul Slade at 1:05 AM on February 4, 2022 [21 favorites]
Great read. I have a decorative cutting board on my wall from the Pizza Hut I used to go to as a kid in Phillipsburg, NJ back in the early 90s. Lot of fond memories of going there with my Book-It pin to get a free personal pan pizza on Mondays.
posted by Gumshoe Grimshaw at 2:26 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Gumshoe Grimshaw at 2:26 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Loved this, and the other pieces by the same writer! Thanks for posting.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 2:40 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 2:40 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
If the mimic takes 20 damage or more in a single turn from a creature inside of it, the mimic must succeed in a DC 21 Constitution saving throw. If it fails, it must regurgitate all swallowed creatures at the end of that turn. All regurgitated creatures fall prone in a space within 10 feet of the mimic. If the mimic dies, a swallowed creature is no longer restrained by it and can escape from the corpse by using 20 ft of movement, exiting prone.
Don't lose hope, it's still possible to escape after this 'Pizza Hut' eats you.
posted by adept256 at 3:20 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Don't lose hope, it's still possible to escape after this 'Pizza Hut' eats you.
posted by adept256 at 3:20 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I think I’ve mentioned before the Pizza Hut building on I25 that briefly became a “Bud Hut” at the beginning of CO’s legal weed boosterism. Kept the sign post and everything.
posted by aspersioncast at 4:55 AM on February 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 4:55 AM on February 4, 2022 [4 favorites]
That is a neat example of digging out some history. I have to wonder, though -- wouldn't much of this be in the city or county's records? It takes going to their offices, but the planning, building, and licensing offices are all going to have records of when buildings were built, altered, and occupied. Maybe also whatever department takes care of restaurant food safety inspections, too.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:10 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 5:10 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
TUB O'CHICKEN
does what it says on the tub
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:01 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
does what it says on the tub
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:01 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Not just chicken--Delmarvelous chicken!
(Delmarva is the nickname for the Delaware/Maryland/Virginia peninsula)
posted by drlith at 6:14 AM on February 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
(Delmarva is the nickname for the Delaware/Maryland/Virginia peninsula)
posted by drlith at 6:14 AM on February 4, 2022 [6 favorites]
Loved this bit:
There’s a term in digital preservation and music called “the deleted years,” referring to the fact that huge numbers of files, from personal photos to digital music libraries, effectively disappeared in the mid-to-late 2000s. Much of it resides on broken portable devices, obsolete and retired computers, or inaccessible web accounts. In some ways, America’s first couple of generations of suburbia is a period of “deleted years” for the built environment. Aside from property records and old memories, very little of this landscape’s workaday history has been preserved in any centralized fashion. 50, 60, 70 years out, the simple question “What did that used to be?” is already becoming difficult to answer.posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:17 AM on February 4, 2022 [9 favorites]
Yeah, that bit kind of reminded me of XKCD's where you lived in 2005 observation about phone numbers.
Somewhere between 2000 and 2010 people started carrying stuff forward. I don't know whether it was a cultural shift in the way we regard files, better migration tools between hardware, cheaper storage, access to the cloud / pervasive internet, or all of the above.
I have difficulty locating anything pre-2000, but I have instant access to my entire /home directory since then, albeit located in an endlessly stacked tree of OLD_HOME/ directories.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:32 AM on February 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
Somewhere between 2000 and 2010 people started carrying stuff forward. I don't know whether it was a cultural shift in the way we regard files, better migration tools between hardware, cheaper storage, access to the cloud / pervasive internet, or all of the above.
I have difficulty locating anything pre-2000, but I have instant access to my entire /home directory since then, albeit located in an endlessly stacked tree of OLD_HOME/ directories.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:32 AM on February 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
I enjoyed that, and really admire the author's determination to figure it out, and the wonderful old school newspaper clippings and ads. I also find that as I get older I'm more and more nostalgic for the 1970s of my childhood. I'm sure I wouldn't enjoy actually living then as an adult -- you only have to watch something like Mad Men and add 10 years to get an idea of some of the problems one might have in those times -- but the nostalgia is most pleasant, so thank you for this post.
posted by JanetLand at 6:38 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by JanetLand at 6:38 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Cool. I liked the point about deleted recent history but a lot of that history will be pictures of people's breakfasts.
posted by brachiopod at 6:49 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by brachiopod at 6:49 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
I enjoyed that, and really admire the author's determination to figure it out, and the wonderful old school newspaper clippings and ads.
Absolutely! I was thinking how good it was of them to do all this for properties that are, by most measures, eyesores, and not particularly full of memories or significance, at least not the nice kind. This is important work. And it does interest people, as you will know if you have ever been privy to one of those interminable arguments about what used to be where and how you know it had to have been then because you saw that one guy there and he left town in ...
posted by Countess Elena at 7:17 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Absolutely! I was thinking how good it was of them to do all this for properties that are, by most measures, eyesores, and not particularly full of memories or significance, at least not the nice kind. This is important work. And it does interest people, as you will know if you have ever been privy to one of those interminable arguments about what used to be where and how you know it had to have been then because you saw that one guy there and he left town in ...
posted by Countess Elena at 7:17 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I really wish there was information about subscription prices. I'm interested, but the only way to find the price appears to be to sign up and I'm not going to do that.
Two things, not about the price, but about seeing more of what a substack newsletter is about without getting more emails in your inbox:
1. Most substack newsletters allow you to see a lot of content without subscribing. Click on the "The Delete Scenes" and underneath the email input box there's something that says "Let me read it first."
2. All substacks have an RSS feed of their content (paid stuff just gives a snippet, but free posts are all there). You can reach it at newsletter.substack.com/feed (meaning just put `/feed' at the end of the newsletter's substack URL). I still find RSS substantially better for me than signing up for yet another email newsletter.
posted by msbrauer at 7:19 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Two things, not about the price, but about seeing more of what a substack newsletter is about without getting more emails in your inbox:
1. Most substack newsletters allow you to see a lot of content without subscribing. Click on the "The Delete Scenes" and underneath the email input box there's something that says "Let me read it first."
2. All substacks have an RSS feed of their content (paid stuff just gives a snippet, but free posts are all there). You can reach it at newsletter.substack.com/feed (meaning just put `/feed' at the end of the newsletter's substack URL). I still find RSS substantially better for me than signing up for yet another email newsletter.
posted by msbrauer at 7:19 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
You can see the prices by hitting the “subscribe” button — it will take you to the page where you can see the different tiers, and then you actually subscribe from that page, have to confirm the subscription via email, etc. You’re not going to accidentally subscribe here….
posted by heurtebise at 7:35 AM on February 4, 2022
posted by heurtebise at 7:35 AM on February 4, 2022
And it does interest people, as you will know if you have ever been privy to one of those interminable arguments about what used to be where
This is 30% of all discussion in Rhode Island. The answer is almost always a Dunkin’ Donuts or maybe a Job Lot.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:45 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
This is 30% of all discussion in Rhode Island. The answer is almost always a Dunkin’ Donuts or maybe a Job Lot.
posted by GenjiandProust at 7:45 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
It takes going to their offices, but the planning, building, and licensing offices are all going to have records of when buildings were built, altered, and occupied.
They will, but most won't be on-line and what is probably is not terribly accurate, like in this article that the tax app puts the year of construction of the building as 1984 instead of 1969 or whatever the original construction date was.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:03 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
They will, but most won't be on-line and what is probably is not terribly accurate, like in this article that the tax app puts the year of construction of the building as 1984 instead of 1969 or whatever the original construction date was.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:03 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
Near me, there's a questionable-looking chiropractor's office that very obviously used to be a 7-11.
posted by SoberHighland at 8:13 AM on February 4, 2022
posted by SoberHighland at 8:13 AM on February 4, 2022
There is a White Castle building in Minneapolis that has been moved twice and is now an historic landmark.
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:33 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 8:33 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
This was glorious. My wife seems to find an endless source of TV shows where amateur sleuths solve murders; I would happily watch one where amateur sleuths closely examine the telltales of mid-twentieth century branded architecture to find out What That Was In 1974.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:47 AM on February 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:47 AM on February 4, 2022 [5 favorites]
I can almost always tell when a place used to be a Red Barn
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 9:10 AM on February 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 9:10 AM on February 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
The image of the standalone Krispy Kreme takes me back-- it's one that I have memories of going to as a child, looking through the window at the huge machine that created, fried, and then glazed their donuts.
It's looking southwestish on Ponce & Argonne, which was a stone's throw away from the former SciTrek museum that in 1991-1992 had a 25-year anniversary exhibit based off Star Trek that child me absolutely loved.
It looks like they recently tore it down to rebuild it though.
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:26 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
It's looking southwestish on Ponce & Argonne, which was a stone's throw away from the former SciTrek museum that in 1991-1992 had a 25-year anniversary exhibit based off Star Trek that child me absolutely loved.
It looks like they recently tore it down to rebuild it though.
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:26 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
yes I thought that was the Atlanta one. Hot doughnuts now!
posted by thelonius at 9:29 AM on February 4, 2022
posted by thelonius at 9:29 AM on February 4, 2022
Vaguely familiar with this area in the 1980s but don't recall any of these restaurants. And Krispy Kreme was a red herring in this story.
At my suburban MD high school, a few exits CCW from Landover on the Beltway, in the cafeteria, THE WORST snack available was plastic-wrapped twin-packs of Krispy Kreme donuts (we would instead buy the Tastykakes). Years later I observed that KK had an actual storefront down in Virginia on Route 1 near the Dixie Pig BBQ but they didn't branch out from the South until the turn of the century.
posted by Rash at 9:37 AM on February 4, 2022
At my suburban MD high school, a few exits CCW from Landover on the Beltway, in the cafeteria, THE WORST snack available was plastic-wrapped twin-packs of Krispy Kreme donuts (we would instead buy the Tastykakes). Years later I observed that KK had an actual storefront down in Virginia on Route 1 near the Dixie Pig BBQ but they didn't branch out from the South until the turn of the century.
posted by Rash at 9:37 AM on February 4, 2022
A few years ago, I worked with a local museum here in London to decipher some clues from a 1904 newspaper's treasure hunt promotion. Among other things, we managed to figure out that its reference to "a place of public resort" meant a public urinal next to the Regent's Canal!
To read more, scroll doen to the item headed "Solving 1904's Islington clue" in the self-link here.
posted by Paul Slade at 9:40 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
To read more, scroll doen to the item headed "Solving 1904's Islington clue" in the self-link here.
posted by Paul Slade at 9:40 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
somebody had "hotdoughnutsnow" as their username, and for the longest time, until I moved somewhere that I saw a Krispy Kreme on a regular basis, I thought it read "hot doughnut snow"
I feel that Krispies Kreme pale besides the Shipley's donut, but this is not widely available outside the Deep South, and the cake-style Dunkin donut is apples to oranges
posted by Countess Elena at 9:47 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I feel that Krispies Kreme pale besides the Shipley's donut, but this is not widely available outside the Deep South, and the cake-style Dunkin donut is apples to oranges
posted by Countess Elena at 9:47 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Krispy Kreme’s flavor and texture changes dramatically with age. Most true southerners will only eat them when fresh and hot when they are very soft. Working overnight call at the hospital I learned to love them when they’ve sat out all day and have a little bit of a crust. The packaged ones from the grocery store or similar are terrible
posted by genmonster at 9:50 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by genmonster at 9:50 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
You can see the prices by hitting the “subscribe” button — it will take you to the page where you can see the different tiers, and then you actually subscribe from that page, have to confirm the subscription via email, etc. You’re not going to accidentally subscribe here….
Hitting subscribe jumps you to a part of the page that then demands I put in an email before I can see what I'm subscribing to. Since I've never given my billing details to Substack, yes they aren't going to actually charge me but I also don't want a stream of emails whining that I didn't complete a subscription, "come back" etc. Just put the fees somewhere I can look at before giving any personal details, dammit.
posted by tavella at 9:53 AM on February 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
Hitting subscribe jumps you to a part of the page that then demands I put in an email before I can see what I'm subscribing to. Since I've never given my billing details to Substack, yes they aren't going to actually charge me but I also don't want a stream of emails whining that I didn't complete a subscription, "come back" etc. Just put the fees somewhere I can look at before giving any personal details, dammit.
posted by tavella at 9:53 AM on February 4, 2022 [3 favorites]
My town has what used to be a stand-alone Krispy Kreme store, built when they were undergoing a huge and ill-considered expansion, and it didn't last long. I think it was a glasses store for a while; now it's a medical marijuana dispensary. Weirdly, there is a store that's not far from where I live that used to be a drive-through-only burger place, then was a title loan place for a while, and is now either a vape store or a place for pot-smoking supplies like bongs, I'm not sure.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:08 AM on February 4, 2022
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:08 AM on February 4, 2022
The whole article I was desperately hoping it used to be a Taco Bell.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:56 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:56 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
This was just wonderful. In the same vein, jedicus had a terrific post last summer about Lost Tables, a blog that lovingly records the history of closed down St. Louis restaurants. I'm so grateful to people who put in the time and effort to gather and preserve this otherwise ephemeral recent history.
When I daydream about someday finding a time machine, I always imagine that my first stop (after I went back and stopped Hitler, as is required) would be to my childhood neighborhood as it existed when I was 11 years old. I wouldn't do anything big; just wander around and look at stuff. (And maybe get a Pocket Taco from Taco Bell.) Based on the proliferation of "You know you're from [town] when..." Facebook pages full of old storefronts, I guess that sort of tourism would be the main use of time machines.
posted by AgentRocket at 11:37 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
When I daydream about someday finding a time machine, I always imagine that my first stop (after I went back and stopped Hitler, as is required) would be to my childhood neighborhood as it existed when I was 11 years old. I wouldn't do anything big; just wander around and look at stuff. (And maybe get a Pocket Taco from Taco Bell.) Based on the proliferation of "You know you're from [town] when..." Facebook pages full of old storefronts, I guess that sort of tourism would be the main use of time machines.
posted by AgentRocket at 11:37 AM on February 4, 2022 [1 favorite]
The whole article I was desperately hoping it used to be a Taco Bell.
Since I have lived in the same town off and on for the last 50 years, I can remember the history of a lot of the chain restaurant buildings in my area. When I was in high school circa 1980 we still had Del Taco restaurants in Georgia, but the one I always went to for lunch is now repurposed as a Taco Bell; meanwhile, the Taco Bell that was just down the street has now become an Indian restaurant. They can both be seen in this street view. It is right in front of the Indian place/old Taco Bell, and the sign for the current Taco Bell/former Del Taco can be seen just to the left of the traffic light, on the same side of the street.
posted by TedW at 11:42 AM on February 4, 2022
Since I have lived in the same town off and on for the last 50 years, I can remember the history of a lot of the chain restaurant buildings in my area. When I was in high school circa 1980 we still had Del Taco restaurants in Georgia, but the one I always went to for lunch is now repurposed as a Taco Bell; meanwhile, the Taco Bell that was just down the street has now become an Indian restaurant. They can both be seen in this street view. It is right in front of the Indian place/old Taco Bell, and the sign for the current Taco Bell/former Del Taco can be seen just to the left of the traffic light, on the same side of the street.
posted by TedW at 11:42 AM on February 4, 2022
In the town where I went to school, there's a very popular burger drive through. Down the street used to be a gun store with a super classy art deco(-esque) sign. The letters G-U-N were stacked on top of each other in giant blocks and a smaller block containing the word STORE was at the base. Well, the gun store closed down and another business moved in but the sign was just too awesome to knock down (and probably too expensive). They just replaced the word STORE with VIDEO and moved the letters around laving UNG Video.
A grand total of zero video rental stores have survived and google street view informs me that the whole building has been demolished and turned into a brew house of some sort. The only people who seem to remember this place even existed are myself and two friends. I don't think any of us ever set foot in the place as either a gun or video store. The burger place down the street is still open though.
posted by flyingfox at 11:49 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
A grand total of zero video rental stores have survived and google street view informs me that the whole building has been demolished and turned into a brew house of some sort. The only people who seem to remember this place even existed are myself and two friends. I don't think any of us ever set foot in the place as either a gun or video store. The burger place down the street is still open though.
posted by flyingfox at 11:49 AM on February 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
America’s first couple of generations of suburbia is a period of “deleted years” for the built environment. Aside from property records and old memories, very little of this landscape’s workaday history has been preserved in any centralized fashion. 50, 60, 70 years out, the simple question “What did that used to be?” is already becoming difficult to answer.
I've had this idea for YEARS, since seeing this HP commercial, thinking the reverse of that -- from the place:image to image:place -- would be so cool. I've long thought/wished Google Maps/Earth should have a feature where you can list the previous incarnations of any location. I know there's some historical map stuff on there, but for something like Streetview it would be so great.
I know people have pictures of this stuff. Just the other day I was looking for pictures of the old drive-in movie theater from when I was a kid. I could only find a handful, but it was in operation for 20 years! I'm thinking of going on my hometown Facebook groups and ask for all of the pictures people can find of the local features in the 70s and 80s, and particularly the insides of places like the disco roller skating rink, various video game arcades and pizza places, and other stuff like that. The places where things happened. Some time when I can make it a real project, there's no reason in the digital age why these memories should have to be excavated like this.
posted by rhizome at 11:56 AM on February 4, 2022
I've had this idea for YEARS, since seeing this HP commercial, thinking the reverse of that -- from the place:image to image:place -- would be so cool. I've long thought/wished Google Maps/Earth should have a feature where you can list the previous incarnations of any location. I know there's some historical map stuff on there, but for something like Streetview it would be so great.
I know people have pictures of this stuff. Just the other day I was looking for pictures of the old drive-in movie theater from when I was a kid. I could only find a handful, but it was in operation for 20 years! I'm thinking of going on my hometown Facebook groups and ask for all of the pictures people can find of the local features in the 70s and 80s, and particularly the insides of places like the disco roller skating rink, various video game arcades and pizza places, and other stuff like that. The places where things happened. Some time when I can make it a real project, there's no reason in the digital age why these memories should have to be excavated like this.
posted by rhizome at 11:56 AM on February 4, 2022
I can almost always tell when a place used to be a Red Barn
Right there with ya.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:44 PM on February 4, 2022
Right there with ya.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:44 PM on February 4, 2022
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Oh, it’s the opposite of what I expected. I’m glad he was able to trace the history.
posted by Monochrome at 9:08 PM on February 3, 2022 [4 favorites]