Bubble, bubble, toil and not so much trouble.
February 14, 2022 12:38 PM Subscribe
An improvement I rolled out for myself this year:
Tension rod + thermal/blackout curtains, stretched across each stairwell.
This way, I can heat the living room without having to first overheat the bedrooms, & my first-floor office is tolerable to heat.
I expect it'll have similar benefits in summer.
posted by CrystalDave at 12:59 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Tension rod + thermal/blackout curtains, stretched across each stairwell.
This way, I can heat the living room without having to first overheat the bedrooms, & my first-floor office is tolerable to heat.
I expect it'll have similar benefits in summer.
posted by CrystalDave at 12:59 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
We have a couple packs of the shrink-wrap window insulation. Have had them for a couple years, unused, because on the one hand my partner doesn't want to lose access to the blinds and on the other hand, I am lazy. Maybe bubble wrap is the answer.
posted by solotoro at 1:10 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by solotoro at 1:10 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
First winter in the new house, I spent a good several hours putting up the plastic sheeting on all the windows. Lasted a couple of days before the cats clawed through them. Sigh…
I had heard about the bubble wrap trick before, but hadn’t tried it. Maybe next winter, this year I just grumbled and put up with being chilly.
Except in bed, where the electric blanket and down comforter have that shit sorted.
posted by notoriety public at 1:22 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
I had heard about the bubble wrap trick before, but hadn’t tried it. Maybe next winter, this year I just grumbled and put up with being chilly.
Except in bed, where the electric blanket and down comforter have that shit sorted.
posted by notoriety public at 1:22 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
I might just do that. My energy bill just doubled, bet even before that, I was thinking of what I could do to improve insulation without changing my beautiful crafted windows.
posted by mumimor at 1:33 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 1:33 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Related and relevant, especially for those of us that live in old, drafty houses:
Restoring the Old Way of Warming: Heating People, not Places [Low-Tech Magazine]
posted by ryanshepard at 1:40 PM on February 14, 2022 [18 favorites]
Restoring the Old Way of Warming: Heating People, not Places [Low-Tech Magazine]
posted by ryanshepard at 1:40 PM on February 14, 2022 [18 favorites]
Okay, this explains how to put bubble wrap on the window panes - but what if the problem is the draft coming in around the double-hung windows themselves? (You know, the groove where your window slides up and down when you open and shut it? I always get massive drafts there and have to buy a couple rolls of weather stripping every year.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:41 PM on February 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:41 PM on February 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
In the 1970s, I dealt with the draft when I lived in a house where the wind whistled in outside frame by stapling plastic sheeting all the way around and taping the edges to the walls. Yes, the house was that drafty (it also smelled of heating oil, except when we ran out of heating oil). It meant that sitting in a front room was pretty eerie, because the platic kept belling out and then sucking back and making a "flup-schwoop" noise on cold windy days.
posted by Peach at 2:07 PM on February 14, 2022 [11 favorites]
posted by Peach at 2:07 PM on February 14, 2022 [11 favorites]
Tension rod + thermal/blackout curtains, stretched across each stairwell.
CrystalDave, I've done that for years, and it sure helps to keep the heat from being sucked upstairs. Mine are just upholstery fabric, because I needed them ten feet long. In the summer, I take those curtains down, because I WANT the heat to be sucked upstairs, and therefore I don't run the A/C at all in the summer.
I guess it helps that no one lives up there except during school vacations.
posted by Miss Cellania at 2:11 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
CrystalDave, I've done that for years, and it sure helps to keep the heat from being sucked upstairs. Mine are just upholstery fabric, because I needed them ten feet long. In the summer, I take those curtains down, because I WANT the heat to be sucked upstairs, and therefore I don't run the A/C at all in the summer.
I guess it helps that no one lives up there except during school vacations.
posted by Miss Cellania at 2:11 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Would similar techniques work well to keep AC inside in the summer, or are there light/heat-related reasons that they wouldn't do as well?
posted by mosst at 2:15 PM on February 14, 2022
posted by mosst at 2:15 PM on February 14, 2022
We rent so I'm not gonna replace the windows on the porch; it also has an outside door access and shared stairwell. So I just want to keep it from freezing while I overwinter my large herb pots.
I use heavy clear shower curtain liner and plastic packing tape. I go ahead and tape it to the painted wall around the window, as I can easily repaint that when I move. Plastic packing tape will stick to the metal window frame if you burnish it with the side of a plastic marker barrel or the handle of a table knife. You might have to re-tape /burnish it again as it dries out. Also you have to apply the tape on a day above 40F.
I can see out the plastic and my plants get actual sunlight, and the room heats up nicely on sunny days.
posted by winesong at 2:16 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
I use heavy clear shower curtain liner and plastic packing tape. I go ahead and tape it to the painted wall around the window, as I can easily repaint that when I move. Plastic packing tape will stick to the metal window frame if you burnish it with the side of a plastic marker barrel or the handle of a table knife. You might have to re-tape /burnish it again as it dries out. Also you have to apply the tape on a day above 40F.
I can see out the plastic and my plants get actual sunlight, and the room heats up nicely on sunny days.
posted by winesong at 2:16 PM on February 14, 2022 [2 favorites]
Would similar techniques work well to keep AC inside in the summer, or are there light/heat-related reasons that they wouldn't do as well?
Yes, it should work just the same. Putting up tinfoil in the summer to reflect heat away is also very common. Shutters on the outside is better than anything on the inside during the summer, but the cost difference between operable shutters (most are fake) and some bubble wrap or tinfoil is huge.
Also the link has bubble wrap as a security system. Too funny.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:17 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yes, it should work just the same. Putting up tinfoil in the summer to reflect heat away is also very common. Shutters on the outside is better than anything on the inside during the summer, but the cost difference between operable shutters (most are fake) and some bubble wrap or tinfoil is huge.
Also the link has bubble wrap as a security system. Too funny.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:17 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
In my childhood apartment we had 40-year-old metal window frames that would leak every winter. My mom dealt with it by jamming a towel along the edge of the window, which would eventually freeze in place, stopping things up.
I remember heralding the coming of spring by melting towels and long skinny icicles in the sink.
Putting up tinfoil in the summer to reflect heat away is also very common.
Can second this, especially for skylights.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 2:19 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
I remember heralding the coming of spring by melting towels and long skinny icicles in the sink.
Putting up tinfoil in the summer to reflect heat away is also very common.
Can second this, especially for skylights.
posted by evidenceofabsence at 2:19 PM on February 14, 2022 [4 favorites]
but what if the problem is the draft coming in around the double-hung windows themselves?
Get a roll of Mortite and plug up all the cracks. Or if the windows are vinyl and poorly fitted, just use some blue tape. Just stopping the air from flowing makes a big difference.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 2:30 PM on February 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
Get a roll of Mortite and plug up all the cracks. Or if the windows are vinyl and poorly fitted, just use some blue tape. Just stopping the air from flowing makes a big difference.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 2:30 PM on February 14, 2022 [6 favorites]
I once lived in an apartment so drafty that we hung an enormous quilt across our bedroom window (which was three smaller windows in sort of a shallow bay formation) and the heavy quilt would BILLOW INWARD on windy days. We were basically just living outdoors--but for some reason, only in that room and one other. The remaining windows were apparently sound, despite being to all appearances the same rough vintage.
My current apartment has nice new un-drafty windows but it's cold anyway, because they have inexplicably removed half the radiators.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:42 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
My current apartment has nice new un-drafty windows but it's cold anyway, because they have inexplicably removed half the radiators.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:42 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
This is good for my attic windows - the only single pane in the place. Thank you! I hate doing the shrinkwrap thing up there.
I also feel silly because I just paid a lot for the reflective bubble wrap that is sold as insulation but it's just R3 on its own. I am putting two layers to form an extra air pocket in a crawlspace that already has battens but the adjascent room is still very cold.
Now I wonder if I shouldn't have just bought regular bubble wrap, dang it.
We used the stuff that comes in Purple Carrot boxes (recycled cloth?) to insulate a dog house. It's comfy in there.
posted by drowsy at 2:47 PM on February 14, 2022
I also feel silly because I just paid a lot for the reflective bubble wrap that is sold as insulation but it's just R3 on its own. I am putting two layers to form an extra air pocket in a crawlspace that already has battens but the adjascent room is still very cold.
Now I wonder if I shouldn't have just bought regular bubble wrap, dang it.
We used the stuff that comes in Purple Carrot boxes (recycled cloth?) to insulate a dog house. It's comfy in there.
posted by drowsy at 2:47 PM on February 14, 2022
You can buy silver mylar bubble insulation (like what windshield shades are made of) for use in summer.
I use painter's tape to seal up drafts on leaky windows and doors but I'm not very house proud. It's super cheap and if you don't like how it looks, just put it on for very cold / windy nights.
posted by Bee'sWing at 2:57 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
I use painter's tape to seal up drafts on leaky windows and doors but I'm not very house proud. It's super cheap and if you don't like how it looks, just put it on for very cold / windy nights.
posted by Bee'sWing at 2:57 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
I brought a multipack of electrical tape for our rental property’s ancient windows, and stuck it along all the cracks and gaps - it’s been pretty good. Our neighbours did the same and they’re impressed. We also made draft excluders for doors, and put a curtain in the hallway. I’m not going to put bubble wrap over the windows, because I find the psychological benefits of being able to see out outweighs the few degrees of warmth.
posted by The River Ivel at 3:57 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by The River Ivel at 3:57 PM on February 14, 2022 [1 favorite]
Personally I enjoy being able to look through my windows and see things ymmv
posted by ook at 4:18 PM on February 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by ook at 4:18 PM on February 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
The air drafts in our house come through the corners and where the wall meets the ceiling.
posted by rebent at 4:40 PM on February 14, 2022
posted by rebent at 4:40 PM on February 14, 2022
One of the best things about living at 26°N latitude is not having to think about such things any more. It got down to 40F one night a couple of weeks ago, but the concrete retained sufficient heat that it still didn't get cold inside.
I keep thinking I ought to buy some pants, but it seems silly to spend the money for something I'd only have use for a couple hours a year.
The heat and humidity are murderous sometimes (the same trends that mean it almost never gets really cold also means there are more days that are life threateningly hot!), but ever since we moved into a multistory condo building the electricity use to keep it decent is low enough that it's not something I really have to think about. Back in Oklahoma we'd spend three times the money (with lower electric rates!) keeping a house maybe a third larger than our apartment cool. And I was literally never warm for months out of the year thanks to the 1930 house. Wool socks helped immensely.
posted by wierdo at 5:55 PM on February 14, 2022
I keep thinking I ought to buy some pants, but it seems silly to spend the money for something I'd only have use for a couple hours a year.
The heat and humidity are murderous sometimes (the same trends that mean it almost never gets really cold also means there are more days that are life threateningly hot!), but ever since we moved into a multistory condo building the electricity use to keep it decent is low enough that it's not something I really have to think about. Back in Oklahoma we'd spend three times the money (with lower electric rates!) keeping a house maybe a third larger than our apartment cool. And I was literally never warm for months out of the year thanks to the 1930 house. Wool socks helped immensely.
posted by wierdo at 5:55 PM on February 14, 2022
Okay, this explains how to put bubble wrap on the window panes - but what if the problem is the draft coming in around the double-hung windows themselves?
I use 3M Weather Sealing Tape (or a generic equivalent if the store has it). It's heavier and wider but with lower tack and is easier to remove in the spring. Doesn't crumble when cold or wet. Pretty much invisible once it's on. Just don't let it sit all summer or it will leave a residue.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:01 PM on February 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
I use 3M Weather Sealing Tape (or a generic equivalent if the store has it). It's heavier and wider but with lower tack and is easier to remove in the spring. Doesn't crumble when cold or wet. Pretty much invisible once it's on. Just don't let it sit all summer or it will leave a residue.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:01 PM on February 14, 2022 [5 favorites]
An improvement I rolled out for myself this year:
Tension rod + thermal/blackout curtains, stretched across each stairwell.
The houses here in New England were built for this. When we moved into our ~1920's house, the bedroomless 700 sq ft ground floor had 11 internal doors, not including the closets, bathroom, basement, or outside doors. There's now a giant pile of doors in the attic, apart from the three surrounding the stairwell which keep it nice and icy.
posted by chortly at 7:02 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Tension rod + thermal/blackout curtains, stretched across each stairwell.
The houses here in New England were built for this. When we moved into our ~1920's house, the bedroomless 700 sq ft ground floor had 11 internal doors, not including the closets, bathroom, basement, or outside doors. There's now a giant pile of doors in the attic, apart from the three surrounding the stairwell which keep it nice and icy.
posted by chortly at 7:02 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
@ook yeah I came in here expecting a few laughs about bubble wrap on windows but instead it's all wholesome energy saving tips and now I realize I'm the one living in a bubble.
posted by rouftop at 8:57 PM on February 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by rouftop at 8:57 PM on February 14, 2022 [7 favorites]
Metafilter: kept belling out and then sucking back and making a "flup-schwoop" noise.
(Personally resonant memory for me because I grew up inn eighteenth-century house with Highly Energy Efficient parents.)
posted by away for regrooving at 10:04 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
(Personally resonant memory for me because I grew up inn eighteenth-century house with Highly Energy Efficient parents.)
posted by away for regrooving at 10:04 PM on February 14, 2022 [3 favorites]
Any thoughts about humidity and spreading heat? High or low humidity out of doors really affects how much cooling shade offers (low humidity, shade is a big deal, high humidity, shade makes much less difference).
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 3:07 AM on February 15, 2022
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 3:07 AM on February 15, 2022
Double glazed windows would obviously not benefit from this trick; am I right in assuming that modern houses in the US require double or triple glazing?
posted by Kiwi at 5:13 AM on February 15, 2022
posted by Kiwi at 5:13 AM on February 15, 2022
One exception to Heat People, not places:
Space heater in bathroom prior to showering. It only takes about 20 minutes of preheat. You'll find your mirrors resistant to fogging and exiting shower wet much warmer.
Bonus: bucket to capture cold water from pipes during warm-up. Use it for any grey water purposes.
posted by filtergik at 5:38 AM on February 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
Space heater in bathroom prior to showering. It only takes about 20 minutes of preheat. You'll find your mirrors resistant to fogging and exiting shower wet much warmer.
Bonus: bucket to capture cold water from pipes during warm-up. Use it for any grey water purposes.
posted by filtergik at 5:38 AM on February 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
Anyone have any good recommendations for exterior doors? The solid wood front door in my house has warped over time so there's a daylight gap on the top of the latch side. There's already some felt weather stripping and those plastic v-shape weather strip up in there, but the gap is pretty big at one end and disappears at the latch, so it _feels_ like I need something that can conform more without causing the door to bind when it's closed. Is there like a technique with a set of calipers or something to figure out the minimum and maximum gap and work it out from there?
This is always one of those things that is actually probably better dealt with in the spring or summer when a good hour screwing with the door seal is no big deal but kind of thermally catastrophic in the dead of winter, so it's no rush, but the draft is annoying if anyone has any wood-safe temporary suggestions like just jamming some felt in there for the winter since we rarely use that door anyway due to cat-related carpet damage and bad design by the prior owners.
posted by Kyol at 6:17 AM on February 15, 2022
This is always one of those things that is actually probably better dealt with in the spring or summer when a good hour screwing with the door seal is no big deal but kind of thermally catastrophic in the dead of winter, so it's no rush, but the draft is annoying if anyone has any wood-safe temporary suggestions like just jamming some felt in there for the winter since we rarely use that door anyway due to cat-related carpet damage and bad design by the prior owners.
posted by Kyol at 6:17 AM on February 15, 2022
Glass is such a poor insulator that double glazed and probably triple glazed windows would benefit; I have bubble wrap on my north-facing double-glazed windows year round; I'm happy not to see my neighbor's house well anyway.
Maine's pretty humid and trees shading the house make a big difference, even the patio umbrellas on the deck help a lot.
I comment a fair bit about how much I like my wood stove. It allows me to keep the living room toasty while the rest of the house is a lot chillier. Unless I'm working, the bedroom is cool, the down comforter warms the bed up pretty fast. It got down to 0F overnight; I threw n a log when I was up during the night, and had a bed of coals this morning to get things warm quickly. This doesn't usually happen. It was up to 12 by 9 a.m.; longer days and more direct sun are lovely.
Nice thread; thanks.
posted by theora55 at 7:07 AM on February 15, 2022
Maine's pretty humid and trees shading the house make a big difference, even the patio umbrellas on the deck help a lot.
I comment a fair bit about how much I like my wood stove. It allows me to keep the living room toasty while the rest of the house is a lot chillier. Unless I'm working, the bedroom is cool, the down comforter warms the bed up pretty fast. It got down to 0F overnight; I threw n a log when I was up during the night, and had a bed of coals this morning to get things warm quickly. This doesn't usually happen. It was up to 12 by 9 a.m.; longer days and more direct sun are lovely.
Nice thread; thanks.
posted by theora55 at 7:07 AM on February 15, 2022
This is a great post! I have lived in northern climates for many years and always in older (cheaper) places so had to put plastic up every year. I never thought to try bubble wrap though. It would be limited in its effect (but definitely better than nothing) as part of the trouble with old windows is also the frames and leakage. Aluminum is particularly bad as it conducts heat very well. The suggestion of Mortite up-thread works wonders along with some clear shrink wrap kits. The object is to have a dead air space which acts as an insulator.
@Kyol - I have had some doors like this too and used various types of soft weather stripping to seal odd gaps like that. It can stick to the door or the frame. In my experience sometimes getting the old stuff (the felt and plastic you mentioned off and out of the way can make a better surface for the door to seal. If you're in the city this can make it quieter inside as well, as gaps let an incredible amount of sound in. Also, sometimes that felt is attached to a frame that attaches to the door with screws. It is often adjustable if you loosen the screws, or you can take the screws out and put the strip where it will do more good and refasten it.
posted by cybrcamper at 7:30 AM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
@Kyol - I have had some doors like this too and used various types of soft weather stripping to seal odd gaps like that. It can stick to the door or the frame. In my experience sometimes getting the old stuff (the felt and plastic you mentioned off and out of the way can make a better surface for the door to seal. If you're in the city this can make it quieter inside as well, as gaps let an incredible amount of sound in. Also, sometimes that felt is attached to a frame that attaches to the door with screws. It is often adjustable if you loosen the screws, or you can take the screws out and put the strip where it will do more good and refasten it.
posted by cybrcamper at 7:30 AM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
Double glazed windows would obviously not benefit from this trick; am I right in assuming that modern houses in the US require double or triple glazing?
Yes of course, but home construction in the US has trailed off so much that the median age of a single family home across the entire US is almost 50 years old - which was far before double glazing.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:39 AM on February 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yes of course, but home construction in the US has trailed off so much that the median age of a single family home across the entire US is almost 50 years old - which was far before double glazing.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:39 AM on February 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
Any thoughts about humidity and spreading heat? High or low humidity out of doors really affects how much cooling shade offers (low humidity, shade is a big deal, high humidity, shade makes much less difference).
Humidity is managed by putting as much wood in your house as you can manage. Wood sucks in moisture regulating humidity. Shading matters for direct heat, because direct heat is a big factor (as opposed to the air around just being hot) that can be mitigated.
Finally home construction for hot humid zones should include high ceilings (10ft minimum), transom windows above doors, and relatively narrow homes with operable windows on the north, south, and east sides (east side needs shutters) so that wind can blow in the from the south and east and out the north side of the home. Heat rises, so getting it up high above head height really helps. If the hot area you live in gets really cool at night (50F), then less insulation to let cold in and hot out really helps. If it doesn't, then more insulation is better.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:48 AM on February 15, 2022
Humidity is managed by putting as much wood in your house as you can manage. Wood sucks in moisture regulating humidity. Shading matters for direct heat, because direct heat is a big factor (as opposed to the air around just being hot) that can be mitigated.
Finally home construction for hot humid zones should include high ceilings (10ft minimum), transom windows above doors, and relatively narrow homes with operable windows on the north, south, and east sides (east side needs shutters) so that wind can blow in the from the south and east and out the north side of the home. Heat rises, so getting it up high above head height really helps. If the hot area you live in gets really cool at night (50F), then less insulation to let cold in and hot out really helps. If it doesn't, then more insulation is better.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:48 AM on February 15, 2022
I hang doubled velvet curtains on a tension rod to block the cold air from the front door during the winter, as the door is old and poorly fitted. It makes a ton of difference.
posted by foxtongue at 10:27 AM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by foxtongue at 10:27 AM on February 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
One tip from one of my communards who used bubble wrap to insulate his workshop this winter is do not tell the people at the bubble wrap manufacturer you're planning on using it for insulation because they will spend a long time trying to tell you that it's not safe because it's not fire-rated.
posted by ob1quixote at 5:56 AM on February 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by ob1quixote at 5:56 AM on February 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Spraying water on my shitty, 100-year-old windows to make the plastic stick seems like a recipe for frost and ice developing between the glass and the bubble wrap, which I don't imagine is a good thing.
The plastic film kits work fine, but are definitely very expensive compared to bubble wrap.
Eventually, we'll have replaced all our windows, but it's a very expensive process so we're just doing a few a year.
posted by asnider at 11:25 AM on February 16, 2022
The plastic film kits work fine, but are definitely very expensive compared to bubble wrap.
Eventually, we'll have replaced all our windows, but it's a very expensive process so we're just doing a few a year.
posted by asnider at 11:25 AM on February 16, 2022
One tip from one of my communards who used bubble wrap to insulate his workshop this winter is do not tell the people at the bubble wrap manufacturer you're planning on using it for insulation because they will spend a long time trying to tell you that it's not safe because it's not fire-rated.
Yeah, there are times where I wonder just how hard it would be to bring back proper fire-rated tapestries to knock down the cold that seeps through hundred year old walls. I mean, hanging quilts is one thing, but that big broad cotton sheet will go up in a heatbeat if it's given the slightest opportunity...
posted by Kyol at 3:14 PM on February 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
Yeah, there are times where I wonder just how hard it would be to bring back proper fire-rated tapestries to knock down the cold that seeps through hundred year old walls. I mean, hanging quilts is one thing, but that big broad cotton sheet will go up in a heatbeat if it's given the slightest opportunity...
posted by Kyol at 3:14 PM on February 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
Looks like you can buy fire-resistant satin by the roll!
posted by tavella at 4:59 PM on February 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by tavella at 4:59 PM on February 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm surprised no one has mentioned caulk in regard to leakage around the windows. I don't see any reason you couldn't do that as a renter, although I didn't know how to use caulk until I was a homeowner for some reason.
CAULK THAT BIPPY!
posted by nosila at 4:31 AM on February 17, 2022 [2 favorites]
CAULK THAT BIPPY!
posted by nosila at 4:31 AM on February 17, 2022 [2 favorites]
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