Has women's figure skating turned into a child abuse factory?
February 18, 2022 7:21 PM Subscribe
Women's figure skating, usually promoted as the glittering highlight of the Winter Olympics, ended disastrously this year. The gold medallist said she felt empty. The silver medallist pledged never to skate again. The favourite left in tears without saying a word. The competitors knew that in a system where puberty is viewed with fear and suspicion, they will be discarded after one Games and "left with physical and psychological injuries that will take years to repair."
A pair of 1 hour video essays on the factory system in women's figure skating:
What is Happening to Women's Figure Skating? | An Essay | PART 1
The Cycle of Exploitation in Women's Figure Skating | An Essay | PART 2
Topics discussed in the videos which are not covered by the articles include daily weighing in which a change of more than 200g is viewed with concern, poor quad jump techniques which put tremendous strain on the skaters' bodies and lead to high rates of injury, poor nutrition leading to stress fractures, regular questions to young skaters in press conferences about puberty, shaming of athletes for getting injured in training, separating children from their parents so that parents don't "interfere" with training, eating disorders, forcing children to train with serious injuries, exploitation of the trusting nature of children, and three ideas for how to fix what's broken in women's figure skating:
1. Raise the age for senior competition from 15 to 16 or 17, as was done in gymnastics.
2. Reform the judging system so that well-performed triples score as well as bad or dangerous quads, and have professional rather than volunteer judges.
3. Cap the number of quads.
A pair of 1 hour video essays on the factory system in women's figure skating:
What is Happening to Women's Figure Skating? | An Essay | PART 1
The Cycle of Exploitation in Women's Figure Skating | An Essay | PART 2
Topics discussed in the videos which are not covered by the articles include daily weighing in which a change of more than 200g is viewed with concern, poor quad jump techniques which put tremendous strain on the skaters' bodies and lead to high rates of injury, poor nutrition leading to stress fractures, regular questions to young skaters in press conferences about puberty, shaming of athletes for getting injured in training, separating children from their parents so that parents don't "interfere" with training, eating disorders, forcing children to train with serious injuries, exploitation of the trusting nature of children, and three ideas for how to fix what's broken in women's figure skating:
1. Raise the age for senior competition from 15 to 16 or 17, as was done in gymnastics.
2. Reform the judging system so that well-performed triples score as well as bad or dangerous quads, and have professional rather than volunteer judges.
3. Cap the number of quads.
Kayln Kahler at Defector wrote about this as well: Nobody Won Women's Figure Skating. It's worth reading, as Kahler is pointing out what the cameras caught people saying, and how the translations offered weren't even close to what was being said. There was a lot of rage, and you had the gold and silver medalists both basically saying they never want to skate again.
At some point, we need to realize that sports like this (and gymnastics) are not all that unlike dogfighting in how inhumanely we let these children be treated. Is it worth their suffering to ooh and ah over four jumps instead of three, or two?
There was also (and I can't find it now) a pretty amazing story that I'm roughly sure was fiction (?) about a retired figure skater at 30, after a two hip replacements and a divorce, dealing with massive depression, painkiller addiction, and general despair at going through life as someone physically stunted by skating, meeting a young skater who dreams of being a gold medalist, but plainly won't be, and damn, it was a sobering, harsh read. If anyone can find it, damn, I wish I'd bookmarked it.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:42 PM on February 18, 2022 [50 favorites]
At some point, we need to realize that sports like this (and gymnastics) are not all that unlike dogfighting in how inhumanely we let these children be treated. Is it worth their suffering to ooh and ah over four jumps instead of three, or two?
There was also (and I can't find it now) a pretty amazing story that I'm roughly sure was fiction (?) about a retired figure skater at 30, after a two hip replacements and a divorce, dealing with massive depression, painkiller addiction, and general despair at going through life as someone physically stunted by skating, meeting a young skater who dreams of being a gold medalist, but plainly won't be, and damn, it was a sobering, harsh read. If anyone can find it, damn, I wish I'd bookmarked it.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:42 PM on February 18, 2022 [50 favorites]
It is absolutely gymnastics all over again, and the only people standing in the way are the exploiters.
...which is, alas, why the reform is gonna take a while; too many political postures stand athwart progress.
posted by aramaic at 7:43 PM on February 18, 2022 [10 favorites]
...which is, alas, why the reform is gonna take a while; too many political postures stand athwart progress.
posted by aramaic at 7:43 PM on February 18, 2022 [10 favorites]
I had this event on in the background while I was doing other things around the house last night. I was watching bits and pieces of the skating as I am not super into it, but I enjoy watching the sport sometimes. Then suddenly, I looked at the TV and there was a camera shot of this young kid crying on international television. The camera just held there as she cried and cried. I didn't have the sound on, but I was so appalled by this voyeuristic spectacle that I had to turn it off.
This disgusts me. I was already mildly disgusted by the Olympics this year for other reasons. But I won't be watching any more. I hope these kids get some help.
posted by SoberHighland at 7:52 PM on February 18, 2022 [32 favorites]
This disgusts me. I was already mildly disgusted by the Olympics this year for other reasons. But I won't be watching any more. I hope these kids get some help.
posted by SoberHighland at 7:52 PM on February 18, 2022 [32 favorites]
"turned into?"
posted by Miko at 7:53 PM on February 18, 2022 [32 favorites]
posted by Miko at 7:53 PM on February 18, 2022 [32 favorites]
The exception to Betteridge's Law that proves the rule.
posted by rikschell at 8:01 PM on February 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 8:01 PM on February 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
Gymnastics wasn't even the first sport to set a minimum age, IIRC women's tennis did this many decades ago after a few wunderkind teens flamed out.
The Kahler article had me wondering if the coach came from a school similar to ballet. weren't russian ballet coaches notorious for being abusive?
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:03 PM on February 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
The Kahler article had me wondering if the coach came from a school similar to ballet. weren't russian ballet coaches notorious for being abusive?
posted by OHenryPacey at 8:03 PM on February 18, 2022 [4 favorites]
The Olympics had a start and will have an end. I'm sure this year brought it more than a year closer.
posted by krisjohn at 8:41 PM on February 18, 2022 [16 favorites]
posted by krisjohn at 8:41 PM on February 18, 2022 [16 favorites]
How much of this is a problem with skating, and how much is a problem with Russian skating?
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:08 PM on February 18, 2022 [17 favorites]
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 9:08 PM on February 18, 2022 [17 favorites]
My partner is really into figure skating, and over the last few months of her watching Canadian nationals, Euro finals, 4 Continents, and now the Olympics, I've picked up a lot of this story through osmosis.
Yes, skating has it's issues, particularly with the age of women competing at the highest levels. This is compounded with how, as mentioned above, a poorly executed quad still gives more points that a perfect triple. Young women are being asked to extremely difficult jumps but also keep their weight down (I believe both Hungarian and French tv commentators body-shamed athletes during recent broadcasts). There are women skating at the highest levels who have legs that look like they're built for jumping. And then there are skaters that weigh nothing, and all of the force going into those jumps are coming from their core and wrecking their backs.
Now add into the mix the Russian figure skaing coach Eteri Tutberidze. She's the centre of all of this. She seems to be the stereotype of an evil, abusive coach. Pushing young skaters, minors, beyond their physical limits then dumping them once injuries inevitably take hold. Eteri coached the gold and silver medalists from the last Olympics. They are currently 19 and 22, and both now too injured to continue to compete at the Olympic level. During training her underaged charged suffer dehydration, starvation, and going as far as refusing skaters access to their family. The fact she seems to be giving the skaters zero input into their music and routine (Bolero again!?!?) is the least of her sins, but one that just adds to the skaters' misery.
posted by thecjm at 10:14 PM on February 18, 2022 [33 favorites]
Yes, skating has it's issues, particularly with the age of women competing at the highest levels. This is compounded with how, as mentioned above, a poorly executed quad still gives more points that a perfect triple. Young women are being asked to extremely difficult jumps but also keep their weight down (I believe both Hungarian and French tv commentators body-shamed athletes during recent broadcasts). There are women skating at the highest levels who have legs that look like they're built for jumping. And then there are skaters that weigh nothing, and all of the force going into those jumps are coming from their core and wrecking their backs.
Now add into the mix the Russian figure skaing coach Eteri Tutberidze. She's the centre of all of this. She seems to be the stereotype of an evil, abusive coach. Pushing young skaters, minors, beyond their physical limits then dumping them once injuries inevitably take hold. Eteri coached the gold and silver medalists from the last Olympics. They are currently 19 and 22, and both now too injured to continue to compete at the Olympic level. During training her underaged charged suffer dehydration, starvation, and going as far as refusing skaters access to their family. The fact she seems to be giving the skaters zero input into their music and routine (Bolero again!?!?) is the least of her sins, but one that just adds to the skaters' misery.
posted by thecjm at 10:14 PM on February 18, 2022 [33 favorites]
How much of this is a problem with skating, and how much is a problem with Russian skating?
Does it matter? Kids are getting abused for an entertainment industry. We can't make Russia a functional democracy, but it's a least possible to stop children from competing. I don't care whose fault it is: if you see children being abused you do all you can to stop it.
posted by howfar at 10:47 PM on February 18, 2022 [31 favorites]
Does it matter? Kids are getting abused for an entertainment industry. We can't make Russia a functional democracy, but it's a least possible to stop children from competing. I don't care whose fault it is: if you see children being abused you do all you can to stop it.
posted by howfar at 10:47 PM on February 18, 2022 [31 favorites]
Has women's figure skating turned into a child abuse factory?
women's figure skating:
the age of women competing at the highest levels.
lol "women", two out of three medalists are girls
nobody effectively critiques an obscenity by enthusiastically colluding with its linguistic delusions
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:34 PM on February 18, 2022 [25 favorites]
women's figure skating:
the age of women competing at the highest levels.
lol "women", two out of three medalists are girls
nobody effectively critiques an obscenity by enthusiastically colluding with its linguistic delusions
posted by queenofbithynia at 11:34 PM on February 18, 2022 [25 favorites]
"Has women's figure skating turned into a child abuse factory?"
*turned into* ?
posted by GallonOfAlan at 12:03 AM on February 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
*turned into* ?
posted by GallonOfAlan at 12:03 AM on February 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
The thing is, before Eteri Russian women's singles skaters weren't notable, and figure skaters in this category tended to peak around 20, which is when they figured out how their bodies changed after puberty to jump properly, plus got enough senior experience to not flame out psychologically. Every other nation's girls and women are still like that. Japan's Kaori Sakamoto got bronze at 21, with a clean artistic skate that didn't have either quads or a triple axel. The US sent a 25 year old woman to the Olympics, and she got 10th place overall - that's a decade of skating as a senior at a world-topping level. There's no reason women can't have careers as healthy as the guys (for values of healthy that do include acceptance of injuries because people push themselves to the very limit), performing in two or three Olympic cycles and retiring in their late twenties.
Like almost every Olympic sport, elite figure skating will result in injuries and isn't something you do for your entire life. But the Russian method is just churning out one-season wonders who go from medalling at Worlds to disability within the year. I don't think any of them has lasted more than three senior seasons before retiring from injuries and/or chemically delayed puberty. And it's not a secret that Eteri girls get overscored for artistry when they're barely miming skating between lining up for successive badly-performed quad jumps, just because they're literally the only women's skaters who can perform them.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:45 AM on February 19, 2022 [40 favorites]
Like almost every Olympic sport, elite figure skating will result in injuries and isn't something you do for your entire life. But the Russian method is just churning out one-season wonders who go from medalling at Worlds to disability within the year. I don't think any of them has lasted more than three senior seasons before retiring from injuries and/or chemically delayed puberty. And it's not a secret that Eteri girls get overscored for artistry when they're barely miming skating between lining up for successive badly-performed quad jumps, just because they're literally the only women's skaters who can perform them.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:45 AM on February 19, 2022 [40 favorites]
The current state of women's figure skating makes me actively angry because we are deprived of seeing mature athletes who have honed their technique over many years. Look at how the men's field benefits from having athletes who are able to grow and mature across multiple Olympic cycles - Yuzuru Hanyu, Shoma Uno and Nathan Chen, just to name three of the top four from this Olympics. So much growth, so many ups and downs over the years, so many great redemption stories. It would have been a tragedy if any of them had been one-and-done with their Olympics.
In the current system - where girls are disposable and the bodies of adult women are viewed with fear and disgust - we're in danger of losing the Carolina Kostners and Mao Asadas and Kim Yunas and Ashley Wagners of the skating world. The talent of these young Russian athletes is being squandered and leaving them damaged for life. It's a tragedy for the girls, and it's unbelievably shortsighted because the sport itself will be all the poorer for it. It's good that there are still older women from other countries participating, but I wonder how long that will last if the sport doesn't make some changes.
posted by Salieri at 2:17 AM on February 19, 2022 [29 favorites]
In the current system - where girls are disposable and the bodies of adult women are viewed with fear and disgust - we're in danger of losing the Carolina Kostners and Mao Asadas and Kim Yunas and Ashley Wagners of the skating world. The talent of these young Russian athletes is being squandered and leaving them damaged for life. It's a tragedy for the girls, and it's unbelievably shortsighted because the sport itself will be all the poorer for it. It's good that there are still older women from other countries participating, but I wonder how long that will last if the sport doesn't make some changes.
posted by Salieri at 2:17 AM on February 19, 2022 [29 favorites]
The thing is, before Eteri Russian women's singles skaters weren't notable, and figure skaters in this category tended to peak around 20
I think that the more important thing is that we see this over and over again in sport: vulnerable and marginalised people are abused for profit. Laying the blame at the feet of one woman, herself seemingly a product of an intensive system of training which resulted in a serious childhood injury, seems, frankly, like some kinda bullshit.
posted by howfar at 2:28 AM on February 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
I think that the more important thing is that we see this over and over again in sport: vulnerable and marginalised people are abused for profit. Laying the blame at the feet of one woman, herself seemingly a product of an intensive system of training which resulted in a serious childhood injury, seems, frankly, like some kinda bullshit.
posted by howfar at 2:28 AM on February 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
"Has women's figure skating turned into a child abuse factory?"
We should all call it 'Girl's figure skating', calling it what it is might embarrass them into changing things.
posted by Lanark at 2:33 AM on February 19, 2022 [7 favorites]
We should all call it 'Girl's figure skating', calling it what it is might embarrass them into changing things.
posted by Lanark at 2:33 AM on February 19, 2022 [7 favorites]
I mean, this is a problem about gender. It's not boys' figure skating, it's not boys' gymnastics, it's not even boys' ballet as often despite the nature of ballet - and while there absolutely is abuse of boy athletes, there aren't whole industries built around the gendered and basically sexualized abuse by training of boy athletes.
You can't really separate out the treatment of girl athletes from the way that we as a society treat young women sexually. There is a whole social fantasy of the frail, graceful, sad, abusable, disciplined girl - so very sad, so very eroticized - in movies and art and TV and books and sports performance. As a society, we think it's fascinating to read about and watch young women who are isolated and physically and emotionally destroyed by any activity that makes them small and thin and graceful. Also the idea that once you're, what, eighteen you're "too old" is basically the entire belief about young women - that they're an expiring commodity, useless once adult. But with sports we're "forced" to accept the expiration date, it's totally legit, adult women's bodies are just used up and unacceptable, that's cool.
I personally think the whole Olympics should go - it's a grotesque system that produces massive suffering around the world. But at the very least, kids' sports don't belong in it.
posted by Frowner at 3:46 AM on February 19, 2022 [72 favorites]
You can't really separate out the treatment of girl athletes from the way that we as a society treat young women sexually. There is a whole social fantasy of the frail, graceful, sad, abusable, disciplined girl - so very sad, so very eroticized - in movies and art and TV and books and sports performance. As a society, we think it's fascinating to read about and watch young women who are isolated and physically and emotionally destroyed by any activity that makes them small and thin and graceful. Also the idea that once you're, what, eighteen you're "too old" is basically the entire belief about young women - that they're an expiring commodity, useless once adult. But with sports we're "forced" to accept the expiration date, it's totally legit, adult women's bodies are just used up and unacceptable, that's cool.
I personally think the whole Olympics should go - it's a grotesque system that produces massive suffering around the world. But at the very least, kids' sports don't belong in it.
posted by Frowner at 3:46 AM on February 19, 2022 [72 favorites]
Bring back compulsory figures (I used to love watching that) but perhaps it's too difficult to follow a perfect figure-8 pattern on one skate if you're hallucinating from a world-class program of weight loss drugs and psychological abuse.
posted by whatevernot at 4:28 AM on February 19, 2022 [22 favorites]
posted by whatevernot at 4:28 AM on February 19, 2022 [22 favorites]
How much of this is a problem with skating, and how much is a problem with Russian skating?
It's not just Russia, and it's not even just figure skating or gymnastics: every few years a story will come out about abuse of young athletes somewhere (for example, the scandal about Japanese child athlete abuse from a year and a half ago).
And while there's absolutely a gender aspect to women's figure skating and gymnastics, the need to maintain a very specific - and, for many people, unnatural - sort of body can lead to impossible pressures for any athlete; I remember how Adam Rippon developed an eating disorder trying to deal with the fact that his natural body wasn't quite the right shape for some jumps.
Still, there's no question that the current Russian factory is an extreme example. One article that made me really sad had a former US women's gymnast saying that she wasn't even sure raising the competition age would be a good thing, because then kids would just be stuck in their abusive environments for longer; better (she said) to age out of that abuse early.
For skating, I wish scoring would start emphasizing elements other than jumps, and that the sport would start evolving in the direction of more interesting/difficult footwork and spins - both more interesting to watch and potentially achievable for a wider range of body shapes. Right now it feels like the only development is in number of jump rotations, and that can't be the only difficult thing to do on ice.
posted by trig at 4:46 AM on February 19, 2022 [14 favorites]
It's not just Russia, and it's not even just figure skating or gymnastics: every few years a story will come out about abuse of young athletes somewhere (for example, the scandal about Japanese child athlete abuse from a year and a half ago).
And while there's absolutely a gender aspect to women's figure skating and gymnastics, the need to maintain a very specific - and, for many people, unnatural - sort of body can lead to impossible pressures for any athlete; I remember how Adam Rippon developed an eating disorder trying to deal with the fact that his natural body wasn't quite the right shape for some jumps.
Still, there's no question that the current Russian factory is an extreme example. One article that made me really sad had a former US women's gymnast saying that she wasn't even sure raising the competition age would be a good thing, because then kids would just be stuck in their abusive environments for longer; better (she said) to age out of that abuse early.
For skating, I wish scoring would start emphasizing elements other than jumps, and that the sport would start evolving in the direction of more interesting/difficult footwork and spins - both more interesting to watch and potentially achievable for a wider range of body shapes. Right now it feels like the only development is in number of jump rotations, and that can't be the only difficult thing to do on ice.
posted by trig at 4:46 AM on February 19, 2022 [14 favorites]
I mean, this is a problem about gender. It's not boys' figure skating, it's not boys' gymnastics, it's not even boys' ballet as often despite the nature of ballet - and while there absolutely is abuse of boy athletes, there aren't whole industries built around the gendered and basically sexualized abuse by training of boy athletes.
One thing that the videos talk about is that Eteri's coaching so far hasn't worked for boys, despite her trying, likely because the entire society reinforces for girls, but not for boys, the messages Eteri takes to the extremes: Be thin, be compliant, be self-sacrificing.
posted by clawsoon at 4:53 AM on February 19, 2022 [22 favorites]
One thing that the videos talk about is that Eteri's coaching so far hasn't worked for boys, despite her trying, likely because the entire society reinforces for girls, but not for boys, the messages Eteri takes to the extremes: Be thin, be compliant, be self-sacrificing.
posted by clawsoon at 4:53 AM on February 19, 2022 [22 favorites]
One article that made me really sad had a former US women's gymnast saying that she wasn't even sure raising the competition age would be a good thing, because then kids would just be stuck in their abusive environments for longer; better (she said) to age out of that abuse early.
That's an interesting point. The argument for raising the age seems to center on reducing the specific abuse of delaying puberty via restricting eating, which results in champions with a maximum shelf life of one or two years, after which their broken bodies are discarded. By raising the age, you at least encourage the coaches to guide their athletes through puberty with intact bodies.
That's the theory, anyway.
posted by clawsoon at 5:00 AM on February 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
That's an interesting point. The argument for raising the age seems to center on reducing the specific abuse of delaying puberty via restricting eating, which results in champions with a maximum shelf life of one or two years, after which their broken bodies are discarded. By raising the age, you at least encourage the coaches to guide their athletes through puberty with intact bodies.
That's the theory, anyway.
posted by clawsoon at 5:00 AM on February 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
I personally think the whole Olympics should go - it's a grotesque system that produces massive suffering around the world.
I agree. I find the Olympics to be so grotesque.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:04 AM on February 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
I agree. I find the Olympics to be so grotesque.
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:04 AM on February 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
The horrifying thing about treating young women thos way, in both skating and gymnastics, is that abusing them absolutely works for getting medals. It's just more obvious with this coach of late how deliberately disposable teen girls are. And nobody cares as long as the fame and money roll in.
But also, it's disgusting that the "sport" has evolved so that only 15 year olds and under can do 4 fucking quads or whatever because adult healthy bodies literally can't do the impossible. The people who made that standard NEED to stop upholding it. They are ruining people and their "sport." How is skating going to last when anyone under 16 can't do it any more? When it's all about abuse, dope and meltdowns and tell-all books that come out later? Sane parents shouldn't let their babies grow up to be dance sport stars.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:56 AM on February 19, 2022 [15 favorites]
But also, it's disgusting that the "sport" has evolved so that only 15 year olds and under can do 4 fucking quads or whatever because adult healthy bodies literally can't do the impossible. The people who made that standard NEED to stop upholding it. They are ruining people and their "sport." How is skating going to last when anyone under 16 can't do it any more? When it's all about abuse, dope and meltdowns and tell-all books that come out later? Sane parents shouldn't let their babies grow up to be dance sport stars.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:56 AM on February 19, 2022 [15 favorites]
There are absolutely a lot of problems in figure skating, but Sambo-70 and anyone running interference for them (Johnny Weir for example, until the optics recently got too bad) are the epicenter of it. Retired pro skater Polina Edmonds lays it out nicely here: the judging of Tutberidze's students is consistently over marked, edge calls that are made on other skaters are not made on them, the ISU naming her coach of the year when something clearly sketch was going on, and on and on and on. Other Russian coaches like Mishin also probably can't be trusted, Gracie Gold certainly saw some things in the US, and the bullshit "Satoko Miyahara overworked herself into the hospital on her own initiative" story show the rot hits everywhere; but Tutberidze is exponentially the worst, and her school is an accelerator for skating's biggest crimes.
Kaori got gold as far as I'm concerned. Katelyn Osmond too (sorry Zhenya: I admire your hustle, but you're part of this shitshow).
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:14 AM on February 19, 2022 [16 favorites]
Kaori got gold as far as I'm concerned. Katelyn Osmond too (sorry Zhenya: I admire your hustle, but you're part of this shitshow).
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:14 AM on February 19, 2022 [16 favorites]
Retired pro skater Polina Edmonds lays it out nicely here
Interesting insight on the drugs, too - thanks for the video.
posted by clawsoon at 6:26 AM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Interesting insight on the drugs, too - thanks for the video.
posted by clawsoon at 6:26 AM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think it'd be great if, in the next season of "Ted Lasso," he left Britain and started coaching women's figure skating in Russia instead.
posted by panglos at 6:28 AM on February 19, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by panglos at 6:28 AM on February 19, 2022 [7 favorites]
These poor children. I hadn't been watching the Olympics because I have gotten tired of their entire shakedown-based business model, but if the president of the IOC actually feels he has to say something about how badly this is going --
I feel like we ought to have a reckoning about the use of children in entertainment. I don't think we will, because of the money and glamour, but we should. I had been thinking about this earlier this week, when I saw the news about Stephanie Selby.
Ever since the dawn of societal stratification, there have been parents who have sold their children for the entertainment of others, willingly or otherwise, as well as a tendency to accept that girls (and boys of a certain class) can be used up for that purpose. To this day, we have some legacy art forms, particularly the dance-related ones, that were initially developed with the presumption that a performer's career began around 5 and ended before 20, or whenever they got too top-heavy. The traditional post-career options for such girls were "become a sex worker" or "die of tuberculosis," with perhaps a few openings for teaching in between.
These kids are working from a dance-based model that is based on brutality and disposability. Where are they meant to go? What is waiting for them, except at best the opportunity to propagate the model, as their coach has done? This, at least, I don't think they will want to do.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:47 AM on February 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
I feel like we ought to have a reckoning about the use of children in entertainment. I don't think we will, because of the money and glamour, but we should. I had been thinking about this earlier this week, when I saw the news about Stephanie Selby.
Ever since the dawn of societal stratification, there have been parents who have sold their children for the entertainment of others, willingly or otherwise, as well as a tendency to accept that girls (and boys of a certain class) can be used up for that purpose. To this day, we have some legacy art forms, particularly the dance-related ones, that were initially developed with the presumption that a performer's career began around 5 and ended before 20, or whenever they got too top-heavy. The traditional post-career options for such girls were "become a sex worker" or "die of tuberculosis," with perhaps a few openings for teaching in between.
These kids are working from a dance-based model that is based on brutality and disposability. Where are they meant to go? What is waiting for them, except at best the opportunity to propagate the model, as their coach has done? This, at least, I don't think they will want to do.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:47 AM on February 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
We've been watching JVN's Getting Curious vodcast on Netflix and a recent episode was on figure skating and it was really hard to watch knowing all this shit beforehand. I get that they like figure skating, like, a lot, as an athletic pursuit, but the sport is rotten to the core.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:49 AM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:49 AM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
I can't believe no one has mentioned Tonya Harding yet. The "You're Wrong About" podcast episode on her was illuminating to me; I had bought into the popular conception of Nancy Kerrigan's assault. (TL;DR: it was her abusive boyfriend's ridiculous idea, and even if Harding had known about it beforehand, it's plausible that the idea was just talk and not serious or if anything would have been done about it even if she had gone to the authorities.)
The two-part episodes go into the world of women's figure skating and how gendered and, frankly, bizarre it's rules and expectations are for skaters. It's always been a child abuse factory.
posted by AlSweigart at 7:00 AM on February 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
The two-part episodes go into the world of women's figure skating and how gendered and, frankly, bizarre it's rules and expectations are for skaters. It's always been a child abuse factory.
posted by AlSweigart at 7:00 AM on February 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
Watching more of the Polina Edmonds video, a weird thought just crossed my mind: In boxing, the broadcasters often have a couple of people who score the fight as it's happening independent of the judges, which helps to highlight bad judging. I wonder if that would be useful in figure skating.
posted by clawsoon at 7:52 AM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 7:52 AM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Eteri Tutberidze is a child abusing monster. From what I can tell, everyone in skating should have known it. (Johnny Weir and Tara Lipinski's "I'm shocked there's gambling going on here" demeanor aside.)
Since '14, there's been a revolving door of tiny Russian quad-jumpers winning an Olympic or World gold medal and disappearing a year later.
One of her former skaters talks of being forced to sit in a trash can during a bad practice "because that's where trash goes."
A male skater of hers at the Russian Nationalsn was drugged up on painkillers, and even after he obviously fell and hurt himself again, dragged himself through the program. He hasn't competed since. (I can't stand to watch the video.)
(It's very much a mistake to think this is just about poor little girls. And of course, male skaters have not been exempt from sexual abuse in skating.)
The last four Olympics have been held in cheating Russia and then three Asian cities. I assume either because they've been bought or Western countries don't want them anymore. Beijing has been aesthetically ugly, practically snow-free. The games are being held in one repressive regime, while athletes from another, Russia, were already competing with a slap on the wrist for doping so much.
This pains me, because I've been a Winter Olympics fan for decades, and was an avid figure skating fan for many years. The 02 judging scandal begin a gradual decline in interest. I didn't even watch this woman's / abused girls event.
The thing is, before Eteri Russian women's singles skaters weren't notable
Sorry to actually you, but successful 90s/aughts-era Rsn females Irina Slutskaya and Maria Butryskaya, who looked like women, beg to differ.
posted by NorthernLite at 8:31 AM on February 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
Since '14, there's been a revolving door of tiny Russian quad-jumpers winning an Olympic or World gold medal and disappearing a year later.
One of her former skaters talks of being forced to sit in a trash can during a bad practice "because that's where trash goes."
A male skater of hers at the Russian Nationalsn was drugged up on painkillers, and even after he obviously fell and hurt himself again, dragged himself through the program. He hasn't competed since. (I can't stand to watch the video.)
(It's very much a mistake to think this is just about poor little girls. And of course, male skaters have not been exempt from sexual abuse in skating.)
The last four Olympics have been held in cheating Russia and then three Asian cities. I assume either because they've been bought or Western countries don't want them anymore. Beijing has been aesthetically ugly, practically snow-free. The games are being held in one repressive regime, while athletes from another, Russia, were already competing with a slap on the wrist for doping so much.
This pains me, because I've been a Winter Olympics fan for decades, and was an avid figure skating fan for many years. The 02 judging scandal begin a gradual decline in interest. I didn't even watch this woman's / abused girls event.
The thing is, before Eteri Russian women's singles skaters weren't notable
Sorry to actually you, but successful 90s/aughts-era Rsn females Irina Slutskaya and Maria Butryskaya, who looked like women, beg to differ.
posted by NorthernLite at 8:31 AM on February 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
I get the impression - based on no evidence, just the series of events described - that Tutberidze is someone who often threatens people on the phone.
posted by clawsoon at 8:35 AM on February 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 8:35 AM on February 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
Norway, who loves the Olympics more than anything, refused to host these games due to all the reasons just mentioned.
I wonder if that would be useful in figure skating.
See the 2002 pairs scandal.
posted by Melismata at 8:36 AM on February 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
I wonder if that would be useful in figure skating.
See the 2002 pairs scandal.
posted by Melismata at 8:36 AM on February 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
(It may be worth noting in passing that Norway has absolutely dominated the Winter Olympics, disproportionate to its population, since the very first winter games.)
posted by box at 9:20 AM on February 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by box at 9:20 AM on February 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
The last four Olympics have been held in cheating Russia and then three Asian cities.
Rio de Janeiro is in Brazil, and looping Japan and South Korea in with the repressive regimes of China and Russia belies a staggering ignorance of those countries and their governments, with a racist side of mashing together the diversity of Asian cultures. "Asian cities", what the actual fuck.
posted by Anonymous at 9:23 AM on February 19, 2022
Rio de Janeiro is in Brazil, and looping Japan and South Korea in with the repressive regimes of China and Russia belies a staggering ignorance of those countries and their governments, with a racist side of mashing together the diversity of Asian cultures. "Asian cities", what the actual fuck.
posted by Anonymous at 9:23 AM on February 19, 2022
(It's very much a mistake to think this is just about poor little girls. And of course, male skaters have not been exempt from sexual abuse in skating.)
The last four Olympics have been held in cheating Russia and then three Asian cities. I assume either because they've been bought or Western countries don't want them anymore.
I'm sure you didn't mean to sound as sexist and racist as you did in this comment, but that's what you sounded like.
posted by ambrosen at 9:24 AM on February 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
The last four Olympics have been held in cheating Russia and then three Asian cities. I assume either because they've been bought or Western countries don't want them anymore.
I'm sure you didn't mean to sound as sexist and racist as you did in this comment, but that's what you sounded like.
posted by ambrosen at 9:24 AM on February 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
This is also the fruits of not banning Russia for doping after Sochi -- just making them compete as the ROC so as not to penalize individual athletes. Well, look, it turns out that when you make it clear that the penalty for a state sponsored coping regime is ... basically nothing (no anthem, oh no!), they will do even more doping, and individual athletes will continue to be abused. Even more abused! Since the IOC made it absolutely clear there are no consequences for drugging your athletes.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:33 AM on February 19, 2022 [32 favorites]
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:33 AM on February 19, 2022 [32 favorites]
> The last four Olympics have been held in cheating Russia and then three Asian cities. I assume either because they've been bought or Western countries don't want them anymore.
Rio de Janeiro is in Brazil, and looping Japan and South Korea in with the repressive regimes of China and Russia belies a staggering ignorance of those countries and their governments, with a racist side of mashing together the diversity of Asian cultures. "Asian cities", what the actual fuck.
Also, if you zoom out a little... the next four confirmed Olympics are Paris 2024, Milan 2026, LA 2028, and Brisbane 2032 (2030 hasn't been decided yet).
posted by trig at 10:14 AM on February 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
Rio de Janeiro is in Brazil, and looping Japan and South Korea in with the repressive regimes of China and Russia belies a staggering ignorance of those countries and their governments, with a racist side of mashing together the diversity of Asian cultures. "Asian cities", what the actual fuck.
Also, if you zoom out a little... the next four confirmed Olympics are Paris 2024, Milan 2026, LA 2028, and Brisbane 2032 (2030 hasn't been decided yet).
posted by trig at 10:14 AM on February 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
Just as an interesting extra bit of information that I haven't seen mentioned much in the media, Eteri Tutberidze's 19-year-old daughter Diana Davis also competed at this Olympics, finishing 14th in ice dance.
posted by JanetLand at 10:54 AM on February 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by JanetLand at 10:54 AM on February 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
Was this seriously not common knowledge?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:08 AM on February 19, 2022
posted by The Underpants Monster at 11:08 AM on February 19, 2022
> Was this seriously not common knowledge?
Well, Little Girls in Pretty Boxes came out over 20 years ago, but I didn't know the specifics about these girls and this coach.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:14 AM on February 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
Well, Little Girls in Pretty Boxes came out over 20 years ago, but I didn't know the specifics about these girls and this coach.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:14 AM on February 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
Was this seriously not common knowledge?
In the figure skating fandom, the Eteri thing has been common knowledge since at least Evgenia Medvedeva's career difficulties - Yulia Lipnitskaya's flameout starting at age 16 (she finally gave up at 18, after 5 senior seasons) could have been a fluke, but Evgenia repeating the pattern really lit up the red lights, and then Alina Zagitova gave up at 17 too. Plus Evgenia hasn't been too quiet about both passing the "Eteri expiration date" and the details and effects of abusive coaching on her body. Eteri's program at Sambo70 has only been going on for a bit over a decade, and started producing results in 2014, so it's been a trickle of information since then.
Eteri was given the Coach of the Year award in 2020 and by then all this was already public on skating twitter, including the way the ISU overscores her girls because they think big jumps bring big viewership. Mind you, 2020/2021 really wasn't a full season due to all the cancellations, and this season e.g. the Grand Prix Final was cancelled, so the Olympics has been the first big event where all accusations are commonly known. And while there have been Instagram dramas and other signs of extreme stress from her skaters, nothing quite like the triple meltdown after the women's free skate here.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:12 PM on February 19, 2022 [16 favorites]
In the figure skating fandom, the Eteri thing has been common knowledge since at least Evgenia Medvedeva's career difficulties - Yulia Lipnitskaya's flameout starting at age 16 (she finally gave up at 18, after 5 senior seasons) could have been a fluke, but Evgenia repeating the pattern really lit up the red lights, and then Alina Zagitova gave up at 17 too. Plus Evgenia hasn't been too quiet about both passing the "Eteri expiration date" and the details and effects of abusive coaching on her body. Eteri's program at Sambo70 has only been going on for a bit over a decade, and started producing results in 2014, so it's been a trickle of information since then.
Eteri was given the Coach of the Year award in 2020 and by then all this was already public on skating twitter, including the way the ISU overscores her girls because they think big jumps bring big viewership. Mind you, 2020/2021 really wasn't a full season due to all the cancellations, and this season e.g. the Grand Prix Final was cancelled, so the Olympics has been the first big event where all accusations are commonly known. And while there have been Instagram dramas and other signs of extreme stress from her skaters, nothing quite like the triple meltdown after the women's free skate here.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:12 PM on February 19, 2022 [16 favorites]
Eteri was also injured at an early age: "After sustaining a spinal fracture and growing 22 cm, she switched from singles to ice dancing." - Wiki
And her daughter Diana Davis at age 17: After Davis sustained an ankle fracture in July 2020, her long-term recovery and a subsequent illness delayed Davis/Smolkin's return to full-time training. - Wiki
posted by Lanark at 1:26 PM on February 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
And her daughter Diana Davis at age 17: After Davis sustained an ankle fracture in July 2020, her long-term recovery and a subsequent illness delayed Davis/Smolkin's return to full-time training. - Wiki
posted by Lanark at 1:26 PM on February 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don't follow the Summer Olympics as closely. I forgot about Rio, and I certainly didnt mean to lump Japan or South Korea politically, socially or culturally, in with the current Chinese (or Russian) *government.*
But there is a long history of corruption and questionable activity surrounding host city bids.
And it's also been concerning in recent years that some countries had lost interest in bidding, while others have bid many times and been rebuffed.
Russia was awarded the Sochi Games at a time Putin was well underway to expanding his dark influence over the world, and that was the event that led to its extensive doping coming to light.
Meanwhile, in both Sochi and Beijing, Western athletes have been told to be careful what they say while there. The opening ceremonies two weeks ago included the spectacle of a Uyghur athlete being trotted out as a token.
The Beijing Games have featured bare brown mountains with artificial snow, that ski jump downtown, etc. To me, it certainly wasn't chosen for its Winter Olympics vibe. You could find much more beautiful winter settings in South America.
The IOC has adopted some policies to alter the bidding process, and reduce unethical and illegal behaviors. But the IOC and individual sports federations have been depressingly blind to the continuing doping and abuse issues.
I'm sure you didn't mean to sound as sexist
???
As I linked above, this coach had also treated her male skaters terribly. And there's a long history in FS of not only verbal and physical but sexual abuse of all kinds of skaters.
posted by NorthernLite at 3:59 PM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
But there is a long history of corruption and questionable activity surrounding host city bids.
And it's also been concerning in recent years that some countries had lost interest in bidding, while others have bid many times and been rebuffed.
Russia was awarded the Sochi Games at a time Putin was well underway to expanding his dark influence over the world, and that was the event that led to its extensive doping coming to light.
Meanwhile, in both Sochi and Beijing, Western athletes have been told to be careful what they say while there. The opening ceremonies two weeks ago included the spectacle of a Uyghur athlete being trotted out as a token.
The Beijing Games have featured bare brown mountains with artificial snow, that ski jump downtown, etc. To me, it certainly wasn't chosen for its Winter Olympics vibe. You could find much more beautiful winter settings in South America.
The IOC has adopted some policies to alter the bidding process, and reduce unethical and illegal behaviors. But the IOC and individual sports federations have been depressingly blind to the continuing doping and abuse issues.
I'm sure you didn't mean to sound as sexist
???
As I linked above, this coach had also treated her male skaters terribly. And there's a long history in FS of not only verbal and physical but sexual abuse of all kinds of skaters.
posted by NorthernLite at 3:59 PM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Look. Just stop, because you're only making yourself look worse. You're going on about Sochi and Beijing--OK, what does that have to do with Pyeongchang and Tokyo, the other two "Asian cities" in your trio?
But there is a long history of corruption and questionable activity surrounding host city bids.
Yes, it's long, like decades and decades (for example, bribery in Salt Lake City), so I dunno why the proof to you is non-Western European countries serving as the hosts for the past few ones. Are Paris, Milan, and LA an indicator that the corruption issue is over?
posted by Anonymous at 4:40 PM on February 19, 2022
But there is a long history of corruption and questionable activity surrounding host city bids.
Yes, it's long, like decades and decades (for example, bribery in Salt Lake City), so I dunno why the proof to you is non-Western European countries serving as the hosts for the past few ones. Are Paris, Milan, and LA an indicator that the corruption issue is over?
posted by Anonymous at 4:40 PM on February 19, 2022
I enjoyed watching women's figure skating more when skaters could win gold by skating beautiful, clean programs. Shizuka Arakawa, gold medalist at the 2006 Winter Olympics, was 24 at the time, positively ancient by current standards. Her free skate program is beautiful to watch.
I think this is why I've been enjoying watching ice dancing. The competitors also tend to be older.
posted by needled at 5:32 PM on February 19, 2022 [11 favorites]
I think this is why I've been enjoying watching ice dancing. The competitors also tend to be older.
posted by needled at 5:32 PM on February 19, 2022 [11 favorites]
Yeah I'm not a fan of the Grand Gesture-ification of sports like they're also doing with snowboarding/skateboarding. Even though I found some of the music choices questionable ;) I also found myself appreciating ice dancing for its greater variety.
posted by rhizome at 5:45 PM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 5:45 PM on February 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Slate has an article about how this is all being received in Russian media. Russian social media: Support for the skaters, questions about the coach. Russian official media: Support for the coach.
posted by clawsoon at 5:37 PM on February 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 5:37 PM on February 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
adult healthy bodies literally can't do the impossible.
why don't we maybe allow female athletes to develop into adult healthy bodies--for, in some elite sports, the very first time--and then tell them what they literally can and can't do, from observation? instead of the other way around. for a change.
we all remember when "adult healthy bodies literally can't do the impossible" was the rationale for why female (only female) gymnasts had wasted their lives if they had the bad luck to be 19 instead of 16 when their Olympic year rolled around, yes? nothing to do with society or sadistic training, just biology and physics? it hasn't been very long and some people still believe that, so I certainly hope we remember it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:28 AM on February 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
why don't we maybe allow female athletes to develop into adult healthy bodies--for, in some elite sports, the very first time--and then tell them what they literally can and can't do, from observation? instead of the other way around. for a change.
we all remember when "adult healthy bodies literally can't do the impossible" was the rationale for why female (only female) gymnasts had wasted their lives if they had the bad luck to be 19 instead of 16 when their Olympic year rolled around, yes? nothing to do with society or sadistic training, just biology and physics? it hasn't been very long and some people still believe that, so I certainly hope we remember it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:28 AM on February 21, 2022 [6 favorites]
why don't we maybe allow female athletes to develop into adult healthy bodies--for, in some elite sports, the very first time--and then tell them what they literally can and can't do, from observation?
Just in figure skating "Women will never be able to do triple axels" was the popular wisdom not that long ago, as was "nobody will ever land a quad axel" and there were two credible attempts at it this season (hell, Yuzu's was certified, if not clean at all at all).
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 11:26 AM on February 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Just in figure skating "Women will never be able to do triple axels" was the popular wisdom not that long ago, as was "nobody will ever land a quad axel" and there were two credible attempts at it this season (hell, Yuzu's was certified, if not clean at all at all).
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 11:26 AM on February 21, 2022 [2 favorites]
Joan Ryan, author of "Little Girls in Pretty Boxes," speaks (Washington Post).
It has been 25 years since my book “Little Girls in Pretty Boxes” exposed the physical and psychological abuse in elite figure skating and gymnastics. The outrage it sparked was short-lived. Instead, we continue to rehash the same talking points. The sports’ international governing bodies continue to do nothing. And the broken bodies of young girls continue to stack up along the well-worn path toward Olympic glory.posted by jenfullmoon at 2:18 PM on February 21, 2022 [5 favorites]
The question is: How much longer will we enable this systematic destruction of child athletes?
The tragedy of this situation is that we’ve seen it so many times: A girl not much past toddler age is plucked from the masses as a child with potential. The adults around her know the pain, pressure and degradation waiting for her. She doesn’t.
The United States has been no model of health and well-being for elite child athletes over the years. But there has been progress, accelerated in 2018 by the army of survivors who came forward during the trial of USA Gymnastics team physician Larry Nassar, who admitted to sexually abusing more than 250 girls and young women.
Russia seems to see nothing wrong with its destructive, despotic system. Eteri Tutberidze, the brutish taskmaster of all three Russian skaters at these Olympics, greeted the distraught Valieva after her disastrous free skate with these words: “Why did you let it go? Why did you stop fighting? Explain it to me, why?” Imagine what she’s like behind closed doors if she’s that cold in public. The notorious gymnastics coach Bela Karolyi at least had the sense to give hugs when the cameras were rolling.
The horrifying thing about treating young women thos way, in both skating and gymnastics, is that abusing them absolutely works for getting medals.
I was sitting in a room waiting with my daughter for a beginning ice skating course, and a coach was there doing dry (not on ice) runs of moves that these 2 (10ish?, maybe younger) girls would do later on the ice. She was borderline abusive in my opinion. I played sports all through high school, and never had a coach talk to me like she was talking to them in a coaching setting, at least not seriously. Their mom was also there nodding along. So they had no advocate. Sad.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:27 AM on February 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
I was sitting in a room waiting with my daughter for a beginning ice skating course, and a coach was there doing dry (not on ice) runs of moves that these 2 (10ish?, maybe younger) girls would do later on the ice. She was borderline abusive in my opinion. I played sports all through high school, and never had a coach talk to me like she was talking to them in a coaching setting, at least not seriously. Their mom was also there nodding along. So they had no advocate. Sad.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:27 AM on February 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
Russia seems to see nothing wrong with its destructive, despotic system.
According to the Slate article, a spokesman for Putin responded to what happened with, "The harshness of a coach in high-level sport is key for their athletes to achieve victories."
posted by clawsoon at 7:01 PM on February 22, 2022
According to the Slate article, a spokesman for Putin responded to what happened with, "The harshness of a coach in high-level sport is key for their athletes to achieve victories."
posted by clawsoon at 7:01 PM on February 22, 2022
I have watched THOUSANDS of hours of athletic competitions, both in person and on TV. High school wrestlers broken by letting down Dad. Tennis players burning out in real time, hating themselves with a frightening intensity. Boxers encountering real fear in the face of an opponent they know they can't beat.
Kamila Valieva's free skate program ranks with all these for its power to make me feel hurt for another. Watching her fall and get up, fall and get up, over and again, then break into pieces - that was terrible.
I have envied great scholars whose classical education opened texts in ways that would always remain inaccessible to me. I have also read Orwell's assessment, that he doubted whether a classical education had ever or even could be carried out without corporal punishment. It reminded me of David Foster Wallace's reflections on becoming a top-shelf tennis player - the necessary sacrifice of self, what it gives and what it takes.
If I never watch another young person endure such trials in the name of sport, I will not miss it.
posted by Caxton1476 at 7:12 PM on February 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
Kamila Valieva's free skate program ranks with all these for its power to make me feel hurt for another. Watching her fall and get up, fall and get up, over and again, then break into pieces - that was terrible.
I have envied great scholars whose classical education opened texts in ways that would always remain inaccessible to me. I have also read Orwell's assessment, that he doubted whether a classical education had ever or even could be carried out without corporal punishment. It reminded me of David Foster Wallace's reflections on becoming a top-shelf tennis player - the necessary sacrifice of self, what it gives and what it takes.
If I never watch another young person endure such trials in the name of sport, I will not miss it.
posted by Caxton1476 at 7:12 PM on February 22, 2022 [2 favorites]
« Older What does society owe immunocompromised people? | THE FORGER declares Technical Difficulties Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Melismata at 7:34 PM on February 18, 2022 [35 favorites]