Chelsea Troy on advice and backup
March 28, 2022 12:15 PM Subscribe
"On offering help that’s actually helpful" by Chelsea Troy:
there are two kinds of help: 1. Advice, and 2. Backup. And it’s exceedingly common to offer #1 to people who need #2.
This is a really illuminating and helpful analysis of this problem.
I have definitely learned - mostly through reading MetaFilter for 15 years - that reflexively offering advice is usually not helpful; I have also learned how to express to people, sometimes, that their reflexively offered advice isn't really what I need.
Most of the situations where this comes up for me are not work-related, but rather listening to the travails of friends and family. Reading this article inspires me to rehearse better responses: to silently ask myself if there's something useful I can do to help (providing backup), and then ask whether it would be okay for me to do that; and if there's not anything I can usefully do, practice offering acknowledgement and sympathy - the kind of support that many people are implicitly asking for when venting to people about situations that neither person can actually easily change, like a crummy boss or an irritating neighbor.
This is useful food for thought, brainwane, and I appreciate the author's thoughtfulness and constructive ideas. Thank you so much for posting this!
posted by kristi at 12:41 PM on March 28, 2022 [10 favorites]
I have definitely learned - mostly through reading MetaFilter for 15 years - that reflexively offering advice is usually not helpful; I have also learned how to express to people, sometimes, that their reflexively offered advice isn't really what I need.
Most of the situations where this comes up for me are not work-related, but rather listening to the travails of friends and family. Reading this article inspires me to rehearse better responses: to silently ask myself if there's something useful I can do to help (providing backup), and then ask whether it would be okay for me to do that; and if there's not anything I can usefully do, practice offering acknowledgement and sympathy - the kind of support that many people are implicitly asking for when venting to people about situations that neither person can actually easily change, like a crummy boss or an irritating neighbor.
This is useful food for thought, brainwane, and I appreciate the author's thoughtfulness and constructive ideas. Thank you so much for posting this!
posted by kristi at 12:41 PM on March 28, 2022 [10 favorites]
Very insightful, The_Vegetables.
What is the saying I know I learned here on MeFi about helping, phrased in terms of direction (up/down or in/out)?
"Help out" is overcoming all queries.
Something about when to just listen and when/what to offer as 'help.' (Sort of semantically similar to punching up vs punching down.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:49 PM on March 28, 2022
What is the saying I know I learned here on MeFi about helping, phrased in terms of direction (up/down or in/out)?
"Help out" is overcoming all queries.
Something about when to just listen and when/what to offer as 'help.' (Sort of semantically similar to punching up vs punching down.)
posted by snuffleupagus at 12:49 PM on March 28, 2022
You’re thinking of ring theory, which is often applied to grieving situations but I find is helpful for anybody in any kind of crisis. “Comfort in, dump out” is maybe the phrase you are trying to remember. It’s sort of like what’s talked about here, but not as nuanced, I think.
posted by Mizu at 1:15 PM on March 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Mizu at 1:15 PM on March 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
That was it, thanks!
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:28 PM on March 28, 2022
posted by snuffleupagus at 1:28 PM on March 28, 2022
I like this. Very descriptive and useful.
I think a third option is helpful, possibly moreso for personal relationships: co-generating possible next steps.
I know for myself, sometimes I brain freeze because everything I’ve thought to do hasn’t worked, and it’s really helpful to sit down with someone to help me go over options. Sometimes there are options I don’t know exist; sometimes there are options I reject because I think they’ll be too hard or complicated or I flat out lack the courage to go in a direction that I think is too much of an ask (that can be on a personal, business, or government agency level). A second brain is so helpful in these situations.
posted by Silvery Fish at 2:54 PM on March 28, 2022 [9 favorites]
I think a third option is helpful, possibly moreso for personal relationships: co-generating possible next steps.
I know for myself, sometimes I brain freeze because everything I’ve thought to do hasn’t worked, and it’s really helpful to sit down with someone to help me go over options. Sometimes there are options I don’t know exist; sometimes there are options I reject because I think they’ll be too hard or complicated or I flat out lack the courage to go in a direction that I think is too much of an ask (that can be on a personal, business, or government agency level). A second brain is so helpful in these situations.
posted by Silvery Fish at 2:54 PM on March 28, 2022 [9 favorites]
Silvery Fish - great point.
Along those lines, I try to be careful with suggestions because it can feel like I'm implying that the person hasn't already tried the obvious things: "Well everybody knows you just have to set your alarm earlier. Geez." So - once I've ascertained that my friend is open to brainstorming suggestions - I try to preface any ideas with "you've probably already tried this, but:" One reason people get really stuck is that they have, indeed, already tried everything in the advice columns, and it didn't work for them, which feels both very frustrating AND like you're a weird weirdo if the usual tricks don't work for you. I want my input to counter that feeling, if possible.
posted by kristi at 3:26 PM on March 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
Along those lines, I try to be careful with suggestions because it can feel like I'm implying that the person hasn't already tried the obvious things: "Well everybody knows you just have to set your alarm earlier. Geez." So - once I've ascertained that my friend is open to brainstorming suggestions - I try to preface any ideas with "you've probably already tried this, but:" One reason people get really stuck is that they have, indeed, already tried everything in the advice columns, and it didn't work for them, which feels both very frustrating AND like you're a weird weirdo if the usual tricks don't work for you. I want my input to counter that feeling, if possible.
posted by kristi at 3:26 PM on March 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
I want my input to counter that feeling, if possible.
This exactly this. I usually start with the emotional reflection - “oh, that sucks!” followed by asking what they’ve already tried, and then asking if it would be helpful to brainstorm other options together.
The emotional reflection takes as much time as it needs - a person can’t think right until they feel right. Providing space for them to express their anger, frustration, panic, fear is kind of crucial before tackling the things you can do portion.
posted by Silvery Fish at 3:34 PM on March 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
This exactly this. I usually start with the emotional reflection - “oh, that sucks!” followed by asking what they’ve already tried, and then asking if it would be helpful to brainstorm other options together.
The emotional reflection takes as much time as it needs - a person can’t think right until they feel right. Providing space for them to express their anger, frustration, panic, fear is kind of crucial before tackling the things you can do portion.
posted by Silvery Fish at 3:34 PM on March 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
As unsolicited advice goes, that essay wasn't too bad.
posted by flabdablet at 7:55 PM on March 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 7:55 PM on March 28, 2022 [4 favorites]
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1) people who want advice but have no intention on taking it for themselves. They might send the same advice to others.
2) people who want neither advice nor backup, just to talk (they don't want any action) about how "woe is me" their position is.
3) people who want front-up (ie: you to do everything for them).
And it's hard to distinguish between all these categories when the power dynamic is pretty much equal.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:35 PM on March 28, 2022 [11 favorites]