The Dome Should Have Been Better and Bigger, Okay?
April 19, 2022 1:34 PM Subscribe
A former Foxconn executive tries to explain what went wrong in Wisconsin. If you don’t quite remember, the Foxconn project in Wisconsin was announced in 2017 as a massive deal to build the first “Generation 10.5” LCD factory in North America. It was also one of the first big moments in the Trump presidency, complete with President Trump holding a golden shovel at a lavish groundbreaking ceremony where he said the factory would be “the eighth wonder of the world.”
Nilay Patel and The Verge investigations editor Josh Dzieza interview Alan Yeung, who has left Foxconn and is now a professor of entrepreneurship at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Yeung is writing an upcoming book about the experience and, amazingly, reached out to The Verge to request an interview.
(Amazing 2020 previous work from Dzieza about Foxconn WI, also Previous article on 'Blight')
Nilay Patel and The Verge investigations editor Josh Dzieza interview Alan Yeung, who has left Foxconn and is now a professor of entrepreneurship at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. Yeung is writing an upcoming book about the experience and, amazingly, reached out to The Verge to request an interview.
(Amazing 2020 previous work from Dzieza about Foxconn WI, also Previous article on 'Blight')
Yeung’s interview is way in my uncanny valley. I would believe it was AI-generated. But no, people can learn to do that themselves.
posted by clew at 1:52 PM on April 19, 2022 [17 favorites]
posted by clew at 1:52 PM on April 19, 2022 [17 favorites]
What a ridiculous disaster of an interview. This guy's publicist clearly told him "hey you should do an interview with this website that wrote about the topics in your book" without telling him those articles were about what an enormous con job it was.
But moreover, what kind of weird fucking reality is he living in?
posted by xthlc at 1:54 PM on April 19, 2022 [12 favorites]
But moreover, what kind of weird fucking reality is he living in?
posted by xthlc at 1:54 PM on April 19, 2022 [12 favorites]
I really ran the whole gamut from being in awe of Patel and Dzieza for not descending into incoherent swearing in the first few minutes to wanting to throw them both out of a window for not descending into incoherent swearing by the last few minutes.
posted by Etrigan at 1:57 PM on April 19, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 1:57 PM on April 19, 2022 [10 favorites]
Amazing that all of the answers to their questions are only in a future book that Yeung hasn't written yet but is already peddling.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:58 PM on April 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:58 PM on April 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
amazingly
That was my added hyperbole, sorry. I honestly would have thought Dr. Yeung would have known who he was talking to and read Dzieza's previous pieces prior to the conversation (xhtlc nailed it). But there it is.
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:01 PM on April 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
That was my added hyperbole, sorry. I honestly would have thought Dr. Yeung would have known who he was talking to and read Dzieza's previous pieces prior to the conversation (xhtlc nailed it). But there it is.
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:01 PM on April 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
Hey does anyone know if this guy's working on a book? Seems like he should be working on a book.
posted by mhum at 2:01 PM on April 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by mhum at 2:01 PM on April 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
tries
Wow, I thought it would be "tries, but after laying out what happens turns out there's no good answers", not "tries but just says he'll get around to it later"
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:01 PM on April 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
Wow, I thought it would be "tries, but after laying out what happens turns out there's no good answers", not "tries but just says he'll get around to it later"
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:01 PM on April 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
I will come back to what you said about the innovation center, because that was my idea. We had talked about how to build up the capability, and how to leverage all other places and locations within Wisconsin. That will be one of the ways that we tap into local talent. I think your press organization had said that, too. Anytime you put well over $50 million — along with paying for upkeep and property taxes — into innovation centers, they can get compared to Potemkin offices, used to help an incumbent get reelected.
Hmm. Why might that be?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:03 PM on April 19, 2022 [12 favorites]
Hmm. Why might that be?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:03 PM on April 19, 2022 [12 favorites]
This is the most evasive interview I've ever read, and the patience required to extract any information from this man is incredible. Some choice quotes:
>I will concede that there is not a napkin.
>NP: Tell us what is not accurate.
Okay. When you look at India, when you look at Vietnam…
NP: No. Answer the question about the employees in Wisconsin who felt betrayed.
Okay, I can do that later, but I will do it now.
NP: We are running out of time, so I want you to do that now.
>JD: Residents were threatened with eminent domain and about 80 homes were bulldozed, whether or not they were happy with the house they could buy with whatever compensation they received. I did speak to homeowners who had built homes thinking they would spend the rest of their lives there, only to find Foxconn was moving in. They had their home demolished and later found out that Foxconn never actually needed the land.
>Oh, you’ve never been there? There are a lot of people who have actually gone through the tour.
TL;DR: He blames China subsidizing panels, a change in governor, and never bothers to explain why no bothered to ask if it was a good idea in the first place
posted by ockmockbock at 2:03 PM on April 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
>I will concede that there is not a napkin.
>NP: Tell us what is not accurate.
Okay. When you look at India, when you look at Vietnam…
NP: No. Answer the question about the employees in Wisconsin who felt betrayed.
Okay, I can do that later, but I will do it now.
NP: We are running out of time, so I want you to do that now.
>JD: Residents were threatened with eminent domain and about 80 homes were bulldozed, whether or not they were happy with the house they could buy with whatever compensation they received. I did speak to homeowners who had built homes thinking they would spend the rest of their lives there, only to find Foxconn was moving in. They had their home demolished and later found out that Foxconn never actually needed the land.
>Oh, you’ve never been there? There are a lot of people who have actually gone through the tour.
TL;DR: He blames China subsidizing panels, a change in governor, and never bothers to explain why no bothered to ask if it was a good idea in the first place
posted by ockmockbock at 2:03 PM on April 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
It was transparently a scam before that damn golden shovel hit the ground, yet what ended up happening was somehow even worse.
I'm pretty interested in what kind of grift happened to land this guy on UW-Madison's faculty. Cripes.
posted by mcstayinskool at 2:07 PM on April 19, 2022 [40 favorites]
I'm pretty interested in what kind of grift happened to land this guy on UW-Madison's faculty. Cripes.
posted by mcstayinskool at 2:07 PM on April 19, 2022 [40 favorites]
What is the real lesson to be learned here by corporations looking to expand manufacturing into the USA? Don't do business with a state's governor/legislature whose only philosophy is: own the libs. Anything that those politicians do is automatically poisoned, so don't do business with them. Unless the whole operation is just a scam, then fuck it, go nuts in Florida right now while the gettin's good.
posted by NoMich at 2:12 PM on April 19, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by NoMich at 2:12 PM on April 19, 2022 [10 favorites]
Dude’s a company man, even after leaving the company.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:13 PM on April 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 2:13 PM on April 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
#domelife
#biggerdome
This was the second slipperiest interview I've read, just after Mitch McConnell defending his support of Trump post January 6.
This needs a content warning for headache and lost time.
posted by Jacen at 2:13 PM on April 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
#biggerdome
This was the second slipperiest interview I've read, just after Mitch McConnell defending his support of Trump post January 6.
This needs a content warning for headache and lost time.
posted by Jacen at 2:13 PM on April 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
→
He is a professor of entrepreneurship, after all
posted by scruss at 2:14 PM on April 19, 2022 [10 favorites]
But moreover, what kind of weird fucking reality is he living in?
He is a professor of entrepreneurship, after all
posted by scruss at 2:14 PM on April 19, 2022 [10 favorites]
The subtext is that the Republican Governor Scott Walker was willing to subsidize 50% of entire expenditure, even it if wasn't at all economically viable as a win for himself and Trump, and that as soon as someone with some sense took a look at that deal, immediately shot it down.
"Much of this subsidy would be paid in direct cash payments from taxpayers since Wisconsin already exempts manufacturing companies from paying [business] taxes." per wikipedia (I don't personally know if WI exempts mfg companies from paying taxes). They do pay property tax.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:15 PM on April 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
"Much of this subsidy would be paid in direct cash payments from taxpayers since Wisconsin already exempts manufacturing companies from paying [business] taxes." per wikipedia (I don't personally know if WI exempts mfg companies from paying taxes). They do pay property tax.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:15 PM on April 19, 2022 [5 favorites]
~I'm pretty interested in what kind of grift happened to land this guy on UW-Madison's faculty.
Well, there’s this...
~Much of this subsidy would be paid in direct cash payments...
It’s a time-honored tradition for cash paid to corps to magically make its way into campaign coffers. Just sayin’.
And, there’s no way in hell Trump is lifting a shovel of dirt unless he was getting paid substantially for it.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:23 PM on April 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
Well, there’s this...
~Much of this subsidy would be paid in direct cash payments...
It’s a time-honored tradition for cash paid to corps to magically make its way into campaign coffers. Just sayin’.
And, there’s no way in hell Trump is lifting a shovel of dirt unless he was getting paid substantially for it.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:23 PM on April 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
Well, on the plus side maybe this will help put that gigantic clusterfuck back into the public eye so we can all mock the Republicans again and possibly stick a few pins into our "Scott Walker" voodoo doll.
...because seriously holy shit how did people not go to jail for that boondoggle.
posted by aramaic at 2:33 PM on April 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
...because seriously holy shit how did people not go to jail for that boondoggle.
posted by aramaic at 2:33 PM on April 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
How does someone who is so without substance become a professor in the state he defrauded? What is the matter with UW?
posted by 3.2.3 at 2:45 PM on April 19, 2022 [25 favorites]
posted by 3.2.3 at 2:45 PM on April 19, 2022 [25 favorites]
My jaw dropped only a few paragraphs in: apparently the book being hawked gave no clue that the project was an enormous failure, cutting off at 2017, with the rationale that including the rest would've made the book too thick so he was gonna put it in some hypothetical second book.
Like hell: dude, you're not writing Game of f'n Thrones here.
posted by microscone at 2:46 PM on April 19, 2022 [7 favorites]
Like hell: dude, you're not writing Game of f'n Thrones here.
posted by microscone at 2:46 PM on April 19, 2022 [7 favorites]
How does someone who is so without substance become a professor in the state he defrauded? What is the matter with UW?
That'll be covered in the 2nd book.
posted by nubs at 2:51 PM on April 19, 2022 [29 favorites]
That'll be covered in the 2nd book.
posted by nubs at 2:51 PM on April 19, 2022 [29 favorites]
The second book is going to make a lot of promises and then never materialize. Donald Trump will make a grinning appearance with a prop book while wearing a hard hat. There will be more journalism: what went wrong with the book? Alan Yeung will sign a book deal to write a book about the auspicious conditions that led to the other book deal.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 2:53 PM on April 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 2:53 PM on April 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
I bet if we could look at everything that went into the decision to make this guy a professor, we would find that he brought a lot more money into UW Madison than they’re spending on him and the ancillary costs of his appointment.
His real job is damage control for powerful people, vulnerable politicians, and corporate interests, and that's why he did this interview.
It’s disgusting that the university would sell a professorship and its prestige for this mess of pottage, but there it is.
posted by jamjam at 2:57 PM on April 19, 2022 [13 favorites]
His real job is damage control for powerful people, vulnerable politicians, and corporate interests, and that's why he did this interview.
It’s disgusting that the university would sell a professorship and its prestige for this mess of pottage, but there it is.
posted by jamjam at 2:57 PM on April 19, 2022 [13 favorites]
Also, we already have a giant dome as the 8th wonder of the world, hyperbolic Conn jerkfaces. Astrodome was built 57 years ago!
posted by Jacen at 2:59 PM on April 19, 2022
posted by Jacen at 2:59 PM on April 19, 2022
Wasn't it meant to make “AI 4K+5G” LCDs, which somehow do technomagic, presumably by the same principles that will soon let you buy a NFT of a weapon in one game and use it in all your other games?
posted by acb at 3:00 PM on April 19, 2022
posted by acb at 3:00 PM on April 19, 2022
complete with President Trump holding a golden shovel at a lavish groundbreaking ceremony where he said the factory would be “the eighth wonder of the world
I mean, do we really need this vaporware of a tellall that will somehow expose the obvious truth sitting right there in the post? Trump made yuge promises at a photo op that made Trump look good to some people and distracted others from shitty and/or criminal behavior going on elsewhere. While names and locations might slightly differ, but how much is anyone guessing that this was any different than Trump Steaks, or Trump U?
It was rank hucksterism cloaked in pork barrel politics. The takeaway, for me at least, is just how terrible the man was at everything except self promotion. We’re all incredibly lucky that he was unfailingly incompetent or utterly uninterested in ever doing any actual work, or we’d likely be much worse off than we are now.
posted by Ghidorah at 3:09 PM on April 19, 2022 [14 favorites]
I mean, do we really need this vaporware of a tellall that will somehow expose the obvious truth sitting right there in the post? Trump made yuge promises at a photo op that made Trump look good to some people and distracted others from shitty and/or criminal behavior going on elsewhere. While names and locations might slightly differ, but how much is anyone guessing that this was any different than Trump Steaks, or Trump U?
It was rank hucksterism cloaked in pork barrel politics. The takeaway, for me at least, is just how terrible the man was at everything except self promotion. We’re all incredibly lucky that he was unfailingly incompetent or utterly uninterested in ever doing any actual work, or we’d likely be much worse off than we are now.
posted by Ghidorah at 3:09 PM on April 19, 2022 [14 favorites]
Q: "There is no factory. Why not address that in the book?"
A: "That will be the next book. Originally, there was going to be only one book, but it would just take way too long and would be very thick."
The next book, on the other hand, will be very thin.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 3:12 PM on April 19, 2022 [14 favorites]
A: "That will be the next book. Originally, there was going to be only one book, but it would just take way too long and would be very thick."
The next book, on the other hand, will be very thin.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 3:12 PM on April 19, 2022 [14 favorites]
christ, that interview is excruciating. If I was interviewing that guy, I would have given him the wedgie of his life after about the fourth time he mentions his next book.
posted by 2N2222 at 3:16 PM on April 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by 2N2222 at 3:16 PM on April 19, 2022 [4 favorites]
He should take all the money from the pre-orders for the second book, not write it, and then write a book about why everyone pre-ordered that book and got nothing, and let people pre-order the sequel.
posted by mhoye at 3:18 PM on April 19, 2022 [17 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 3:18 PM on April 19, 2022 [17 favorites]
Man, I didn't even past his second response when he uses the word "patriots" (apparently with a straight face) and I knew this was gonna be 10 pounds of horseshit in a 5 pound bag.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:23 PM on April 19, 2022 [13 favorites]
posted by soundguy99 at 3:23 PM on April 19, 2022 [13 favorites]
"NP: I agree. If anyone says to me that a dome should be bigger, I always agree with them. That is true."
HAHAHAHAHA godamnit Patel I almost snorted coffee out my nose.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:29 PM on April 19, 2022 [7 favorites]
HAHAHAHAHA godamnit Patel I almost snorted coffee out my nose.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:29 PM on April 19, 2022 [7 favorites]
Well, on the plus side maybe this will help put that gigantic clusterfuck back into the public eye so we can all mock the Republicans again and possibly stick a few pins into our "Scott Walker" voodoo doll.
Maybe. Though, reading between the lines, it was pretty clear the “official” blame is going to laid squarely on Evers.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:42 PM on April 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
Maybe. Though, reading between the lines, it was pretty clear the “official” blame is going to laid squarely on Evers.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:42 PM on April 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don't know why everyone is so negative about this. Everything will be made clear in the next book.
posted by nubs at 4:08 PM on April 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by nubs at 4:08 PM on April 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
There was a great Reply All podcast about this a few years ago.
posted by Mchelly at 4:12 PM on April 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 4:12 PM on April 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
We have no obligation to share whether it launched, it commenced, or it ended.
It's like he's suggesting that maybe they did build a factory and it is manufacturing things, but it is all just a big secret!
posted by Saxon Kane at 4:22 PM on April 19, 2022 [11 favorites]
It's like he's suggesting that maybe they did build a factory and it is manufacturing things, but it is all just a big secret!
posted by Saxon Kane at 4:22 PM on April 19, 2022 [11 favorites]
I'm waiting for the musical.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:24 PM on April 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 4:24 PM on April 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Schroedinger's factory
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 4:24 PM on April 19, 2022 [10 favorites]
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 4:24 PM on April 19, 2022 [10 favorites]
What went wrong is that this was a scam designed to steal money from the people of Wisconsin with the connivance of people involved in the governance of Wisconsin, and what continues to go wrong is that people involved in this scam are still being paid by the people of Wisconsin.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:52 PM on April 19, 2022 [17 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:52 PM on April 19, 2022 [17 favorites]
If you like this topic, there's a great documentary called "American Factory" on Netflix about the culture clash that resulted when a Chinese billionaire set up a factory in the husk of a bankrupt GM plant in Ohio, bringing his Chinese supervisors over to hire and train 2,000 blue collar American workers. Fanfare Thread. It scored 86/100 on Metacritic. It was produced by the Obama's film production company, and won the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature.
I can't describe just how fascinating or humanizing this documentary footage is, or how rare it is that stuff like this gets filmed, truly amazing. There's a theory the Chinese billionaire owner might have been completely misled by what was really going to happen - in China, if the former Chairman of the Communist Party owns a film company that asks you for permission to film your factory, it's probably something that you can't really say no to, and is anyway probably a huge opportunity for them to build a propaganda piece for how great your factory is for the country. Instead the footage got them investigated and charged for labor violations, lol.
posted by xdvesper at 5:03 PM on April 19, 2022 [17 favorites]
I can't describe just how fascinating or humanizing this documentary footage is, or how rare it is that stuff like this gets filmed, truly amazing. There's a theory the Chinese billionaire owner might have been completely misled by what was really going to happen - in China, if the former Chairman of the Communist Party owns a film company that asks you for permission to film your factory, it's probably something that you can't really say no to, and is anyway probably a huge opportunity for them to build a propaganda piece for how great your factory is for the country. Instead the footage got them investigated and charged for labor violations, lol.
posted by xdvesper at 5:03 PM on April 19, 2022 [17 favorites]
I'm pretty interested in what kind of grift happened to land this guy on UW-Madison's faculty. Cripes.
I am at a different UW school, and maybe it’s because I’m an old going back to school, but every- and any- thing I encounter on campus related to entrepreneurship and business just reeks of scam to me. It’s quite possible I’ve just become a feral anti-capitalist in my middle age and a poor judge; but I also would not be surprised if it’s like this at other uw schools.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 5:06 PM on April 19, 2022 [14 favorites]
I am at a different UW school, and maybe it’s because I’m an old going back to school, but every- and any- thing I encounter on campus related to entrepreneurship and business just reeks of scam to me. It’s quite possible I’ve just become a feral anti-capitalist in my middle age and a poor judge; but I also would not be surprised if it’s like this at other uw schools.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 5:06 PM on April 19, 2022 [14 favorites]
It seems like the second book will be published when a friendlier government is installed.
In the meantime, the university system is a hollow enough bivouac to occupy. A Republican would have retreated to K Street or a law firm.
All of the other politicians the writer discusses seem to be authoritarians; it seems like an authoritarian government is an essential part of the business plan.
posted by eustatic at 7:14 PM on April 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
In the meantime, the university system is a hollow enough bivouac to occupy. A Republican would have retreated to K Street or a law firm.
All of the other politicians the writer discusses seem to be authoritarians; it seems like an authoritarian government is an essential part of the business plan.
posted by eustatic at 7:14 PM on April 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
The business environment and investment climate changed a lot in Wisconsin, partly because we did have a change of leadership within the governor’s mansion. That is not the entire reason, but it is a big chunk of it.
"Once we can buy another governor..."
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:16 PM on April 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
"Once we can buy another governor..."
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:16 PM on April 19, 2022 [8 favorites]
every- and any- thing I encounter on campus related to entrepreneurship and business just reeks of scam to me
Good to hear they are preparing their students for the private sector.
posted by ryanrs at 7:33 PM on April 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Good to hear they are preparing their students for the private sector.
posted by ryanrs at 7:33 PM on April 19, 2022 [1 favorite]
Guy should work for Waffle House.
posted by lipservant at 7:43 PM on April 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by lipservant at 7:43 PM on April 19, 2022 [2 favorites]
I am at a different UW school, and maybe it’s because I’m an old going back to school, but every- and any- thing I encounter on campus related to entrepreneurship and business just reeks of scam to me. It’s quite possible I’ve just become a feral anti-capitalist in my middle age and a poor judge; but I also would not be surprised if it’s like this at other uw schools.
no this is public universities in general. if you cannot tech transfer your research and Start Up you are a parasite. if you cannot turn your area of expertise into a continuing education credits course for professionals, you are Not Contributing. it's hard to blame the universities because they get fuck all in funding from the state, but it's nasty and gross all the same.
posted by logicpunk at 7:49 PM on April 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
no this is public universities in general. if you cannot tech transfer your research and Start Up you are a parasite. if you cannot turn your area of expertise into a continuing education credits course for professionals, you are Not Contributing. it's hard to blame the universities because they get fuck all in funding from the state, but it's nasty and gross all the same.
posted by logicpunk at 7:49 PM on April 19, 2022 [6 favorites]
It's not just UW, and it's not just public universities. Business schools are a scam. My apologies to my friends and colleagues who work in them, but... yep.
posted by biogeo at 9:50 PM on April 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 9:50 PM on April 19, 2022 [9 favorites]
"I'm pretty interested in what kind of grift happened to land this guy on UW-Madison's faculty. Cripes."
If I were cynical, I would speculate a very sufficient source of funds from a Foxconn patron, in order to secure a position from which to conduct industrial espionage and recruit talent.
If I were cynical. I might speculate that. Maybe.
And it wouldn't even have to be grift on UW's part - that's just academic SOP.
posted by Xoebe at 10:12 PM on April 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
If I were cynical, I would speculate a very sufficient source of funds from a Foxconn patron, in order to secure a position from which to conduct industrial espionage and recruit talent.
If I were cynical. I might speculate that. Maybe.
And it wouldn't even have to be grift on UW's part - that's just academic SOP.
posted by Xoebe at 10:12 PM on April 19, 2022 [3 favorites]
Foxconny Valley
posted by away for regrooving at 12:30 AM on April 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by away for regrooving at 12:30 AM on April 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
It’s pronounced “entre-manure-ship”.
posted by vitabellosi at 4:15 AM on April 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by vitabellosi at 4:15 AM on April 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
“ Guy should work for Waffle House.”
I see what you did there.
posted by coldhotel at 4:44 AM on April 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
I see what you did there.
posted by coldhotel at 4:44 AM on April 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
The two business schools with which I have more than passing familiarity are both well-regarded as business schools and pretty scammy. They mostly seem to rely on pairing corporate with free labor on promises of eventual placement.
posted by aspersioncast at 4:51 AM on April 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by aspersioncast at 4:51 AM on April 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
So the dome is a data center, but why is there a data center for a bunch of empty offices? This really makes me want to drive down there and look in the windows. When this was announced i thought it was a stupid tax giveaway to make the Republicans look good, but assumed they would actually build the plant since it looks much worse to announce something and then have nothing to show for it. But what really ended up happening here will never make any sense to me. A world of endless stupidity
posted by dis_integration at 6:24 AM on April 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by dis_integration at 6:24 AM on April 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
...since it looks much worse to announce something and then have nothing to show for it.
That faction has learned that the people they impress with the gold shovel and ribbon cutting don't ever check to see if there are results. It saves them a lot of time and money to never have to do the second part.
posted by AzraelBrown at 6:41 AM on April 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
That faction has learned that the people they impress with the gold shovel and ribbon cutting don't ever check to see if there are results. It saves them a lot of time and money to never have to do the second part.
posted by AzraelBrown at 6:41 AM on April 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
I teach at UW-Madison, for the time being (I'm actively looking to leave my job). Let me offer an insider's view that only makes this whole fiasco worse.
One of the ways Foxconn tried to launder this project publicly is by promising a huge wodge of moolah to the UW-Madison engineering school, with all the scammy bizspeke trimmings: internships, "good jobs," "ties between academia and industry," all that arrant nonsense.
This made the computer science department (which is not in the engineering school; it's in with us artsy-fartsy liberal-arts and science types in the College of Letters and Science) super-mega-jealous. They tried a couple-three ways to break out of L&S, unsuccessfully -- they're L&S's big rainmaker in terms of student-butts-in-seats and grant money (which, as noted above, is all that matters in today's academy), and L&S didn't and doesn't want them leaving.
So they managed to muscle themselves a new division by getting a bunch of white-dude alumni (maybe one person of East Asian descent, no women that I recall) to write a report called "Wisconsin in the Information Age" proposing that CS muscle Statistics (which was okay with the idea) and the Information School (which emphatically wasn't) into a new conglomeration.
L&S forced the critically-understaffed, underfunded iSchool to sign on at (metaphorical) gunpoint, put a sleazy clueless non-academic Business Dude in charge, and has been gleefully tapping big donors since. The iSchool program I mostly teach for continues on critically understaffed, despised (because "the public good" is a quaint and obsolete concept, don't you know), and shedding instructors and admin staff like cats shed fur in spring -- I'm not the first to look for the exits, won't be the last.
Here's the kicker. Engineering never actually got the money. Not one cent; the grift fell apart before Foxconn had to ante up. So yeah. Destruction of a good thing in the name of Holy Industry. A-fucking-men.
posted by humbug at 6:46 AM on April 20, 2022 [29 favorites]
One of the ways Foxconn tried to launder this project publicly is by promising a huge wodge of moolah to the UW-Madison engineering school, with all the scammy bizspeke trimmings: internships, "good jobs," "ties between academia and industry," all that arrant nonsense.
This made the computer science department (which is not in the engineering school; it's in with us artsy-fartsy liberal-arts and science types in the College of Letters and Science) super-mega-jealous. They tried a couple-three ways to break out of L&S, unsuccessfully -- they're L&S's big rainmaker in terms of student-butts-in-seats and grant money (which, as noted above, is all that matters in today's academy), and L&S didn't and doesn't want them leaving.
So they managed to muscle themselves a new division by getting a bunch of white-dude alumni (maybe one person of East Asian descent, no women that I recall) to write a report called "Wisconsin in the Information Age" proposing that CS muscle Statistics (which was okay with the idea) and the Information School (which emphatically wasn't) into a new conglomeration.
L&S forced the critically-understaffed, underfunded iSchool to sign on at (metaphorical) gunpoint, put a sleazy clueless non-academic Business Dude in charge, and has been gleefully tapping big donors since. The iSchool program I mostly teach for continues on critically understaffed, despised (because "the public good" is a quaint and obsolete concept, don't you know), and shedding instructors and admin staff like cats shed fur in spring -- I'm not the first to look for the exits, won't be the last.
Here's the kicker. Engineering never actually got the money. Not one cent; the grift fell apart before Foxconn had to ante up. So yeah. Destruction of a good thing in the name of Holy Industry. A-fucking-men.
posted by humbug at 6:46 AM on April 20, 2022 [29 favorites]
Well, the first book clearly can be summarized as, "Blame the Democrats."
I expect the second will describe a sweeping plan to retool and repurpose, promising massive success for both Foxconn and the people of Wisconsin.
I can't decide whether the third book will be "Collect underpants," or "Write three books."
posted by panglos at 7:15 AM on April 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I expect the second will describe a sweeping plan to retool and repurpose, promising massive success for both Foxconn and the people of Wisconsin.
I can't decide whether the third book will be "Collect underpants," or "Write three books."
posted by panglos at 7:15 AM on April 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
How is this man a professor? He clearly has no interest in sharing knowledge or discussing ideas. I'm not even convinced he knows what either of those things are.
That was my added hyperbole, sorry. I honestly would have thought Dr. Yeung would have known who he was talking to and read Dzieza's previous pieces prior to the conversation (xhtlc nailed it). But there it is.
Don't apologize! I confess that I too read your write up and first thought "What's so amazing about trying to get publicity for your book?" But then I read the interview and my god, "amazing " is completely appropriate.
posted by mark k at 8:00 AM on April 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
That was my added hyperbole, sorry. I honestly would have thought Dr. Yeung would have known who he was talking to and read Dzieza's previous pieces prior to the conversation (xhtlc nailed it). But there it is.
Don't apologize! I confess that I too read your write up and first thought "What's so amazing about trying to get publicity for your book?" But then I read the interview and my god, "amazing " is completely appropriate.
posted by mark k at 8:00 AM on April 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
Recently one of the people that went to "space" on those private launches was a professor at a nearby college. I thought cool, I bet it's an engineering or some kind of science professor. Then I saw an interview of the guy and he is a professor of entrepreneurship. Wah Wah.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I don't really know what a professor of entrepreneurship is supposed to be teaching but if I had to guess the better title would probably be professor of owning the libtards.
posted by Justin Case at 8:23 AM on April 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I don't really know what a professor of entrepreneurship is supposed to be teaching but if I had to guess the better title would probably be professor of owning the libtards.
posted by Justin Case at 8:23 AM on April 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Cripes, that's maddening. (Not the post or the article. The interview responses.) Thanks for posting it.
Also, "professor of entrepreneurship?" The challenge in getting a degree in the entrepreneurship department is presumably that the classes always pivot to a blockchain-based pay-for-grade model half way through the quarter that bankrupts the students, whose prior work can then be bought up by the children of rich parents and then flipped for a profit. I love and respect a lot of people at Madison, but they're really embarrassing themselves as an institution, both by hiring this blowhard and giving him the silliest title in academic history. (Unless the goofy title is some sort of internal sabotage? In which case, cheers, but make it more obvious next time.)
posted by eotvos at 8:59 AM on April 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Also, "professor of entrepreneurship?" The challenge in getting a degree in the entrepreneurship department is presumably that the classes always pivot to a blockchain-based pay-for-grade model half way through the quarter that bankrupts the students, whose prior work can then be bought up by the children of rich parents and then flipped for a profit. I love and respect a lot of people at Madison, but they're really embarrassing themselves as an institution, both by hiring this blowhard and giving him the silliest title in academic history. (Unless the goofy title is some sort of internal sabotage? In which case, cheers, but make it more obvious next time.)
posted by eotvos at 8:59 AM on April 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
"I said this while talking with other media outlets: there are 100 things that Foxconn said they would do. If you don’t aim high, none of the 100 things are worth doing. And in the process of trying your best, putting in all your resources and making a commitment to do it, you get two or three things done."
2% of the time it works every time?
That was nearly a straight up admission of grift. "I know we said we'd build a factory and make things, but that was just pillow talk, baby."
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 9:35 AM on April 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
2% of the time it works every time?
That was nearly a straight up admission of grift. "I know we said we'd build a factory and make things, but that was just pillow talk, baby."
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 9:35 AM on April 20, 2022 [7 favorites]
My blood pressure is going up so I am going to come back to this interview later. So far it’s just ‘why did you lie about X? We didn’t lie about X because of a, B, c’. Is the whole thing variations on the theme?
posted by bq at 9:38 AM on April 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by bq at 9:38 AM on April 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
So far it’s just ‘why did you lie about X? We didn’t lie about X because of a, B, c’. Is the whole thing variations on the theme?
Well, no, there is some discussion about a second book as well.
posted by nubs at 10:57 AM on April 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
Well, no, there is some discussion about a second book as well.
posted by nubs at 10:57 AM on April 20, 2022 [3 favorites]
I think the only thing that is moderately truthful is that they didn't think they had the workforce knowledge base for these jobs, and why they were including hotelling and possibly why they didn't move forward without massive subsidy.
In that case, and if it had been sold as a tech knowledge base builder, they might have gotten it passed even with the subsidy. Of course, giving the money to already existing secondary schools would make more sense, but that's a longer-term approach and not in-line with Republicans 'schools R dumb' messaging.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:04 AM on April 20, 2022
In that case, and if it had been sold as a tech knowledge base builder, they might have gotten it passed even with the subsidy. Of course, giving the money to already existing secondary schools would make more sense, but that's a longer-term approach and not in-line with Republicans 'schools R dumb' messaging.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:04 AM on April 20, 2022
> How is this man a professor? He clearly has no interest in sharing knowledge or discussing ideas. I'm not even convinced he knows what either of those things are.
He has invaluable real-world experience with american capitalism. In most programs, they're going to tell you a business is successful when it sells things for more than they cost to create. But Yeung knows the real truth: a business is successful when it can grift tax dollars from the state in exchange for producing nothing at all.
posted by dis_integration at 1:11 PM on April 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
He has invaluable real-world experience with american capitalism. In most programs, they're going to tell you a business is successful when it sells things for more than they cost to create. But Yeung knows the real truth: a business is successful when it can grift tax dollars from the state in exchange for producing nothing at all.
posted by dis_integration at 1:11 PM on April 20, 2022 [5 favorites]
#domelife
#biggerdome
Welp, he's no Kubla Khan.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:07 PM on April 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
#biggerdome
Welp, he's no Kubla Khan.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:07 PM on April 20, 2022 [2 favorites]
In case anyone else was curious, this is what the dome looks like. Calling it a "dome" made me think it was more shaped like the old South Pole dome station but it's not. It's actually a much fuller section of a sphere, leading it to also be called "the Foxconn globe". In any case, it seems like that's a lot more glass (and complicated architecture) than you'd normally see in a typical data center but obviously this is no typical data center. I'd be very interested to see if anyone can figure out if it's even hooked up to and/or drawing enough power to be reasonable for a data center.
posted by mhum at 3:35 PM on April 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by mhum at 3:35 PM on April 20, 2022 [1 favorite]
Foxconn should hire Nathan Thurm to represent them to the media. He would be more credible.
posted by TedW at 5:19 AM on April 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by TedW at 5:19 AM on April 21, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't think I've ever seen an interviewer push back so hard on an interviewee, and I'm hard pressed to name what I'm feeling. Some mix of admiration and rage and despair.
[cw=Ukraine]
Yesterday I watched the interview Zelenskyy gave to 60 Minutes. If I could sketch Yeung's opposite, that would be it. Zelenskyy was present, he was real, he was polite and calm but unsparing. Everything he said made contact with reality. Yeung's responses, in contrast, are a bunch of horse shit spun into cotton candy. With each sentence, I felt a little more of my sanity draining out the base of my skull.
posted by eirias at 5:38 AM on April 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
[cw=Ukraine]
Yesterday I watched the interview Zelenskyy gave to 60 Minutes. If I could sketch Yeung's opposite, that would be it. Zelenskyy was present, he was real, he was polite and calm but unsparing. Everything he said made contact with reality. Yeung's responses, in contrast, are a bunch of horse shit spun into cotton candy. With each sentence, I felt a little more of my sanity draining out the base of my skull.
posted by eirias at 5:38 AM on April 22, 2022 [4 favorites]
No open search in UW-Madison hiring for job filled by former Foxconn executive
posted by eirias at 4:44 PM on April 25, 2022
posted by eirias at 4:44 PM on April 25, 2022
« Older The glory and freedom of Ukraine has not yet... | They’re all classified. Sorry. Newer »
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Er. Not that amazing if he is writing a book, is it? Clearly it's his first step in the promo circus.
posted by Brockles at 1:50 PM on April 19, 2022 [16 favorites]