No Way Home Was Kind of Sexist - Video Essay
April 28, 2022 4:50 PM Subscribe
CJ The X reviews Spider-man: No way Home. (spoilers)
There's a lot more covered here than sexism, FWIW: the definition of art, the similarities between Spider-man's guiding ethos and Jesus Christ's, Scorsese's (artificial) distinction of "movies" and "cinema," the influence of capitalism on movies, and even (from there) how the Sony/Disney deal's rocky history led to the conclusion of this film and robbed MJ of agency. I hadn't thought of any of it in that way either, though I also disliked the ending and felt like they had probably gone this direction for a soft reboot in hopes of some Morbius/Venom crossover (blech).
posted by johnofjack at 6:12 PM on April 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by johnofjack at 6:12 PM on April 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
Well, I watched alllll 42 minutes of that. Highly entertaining too. I didn't disagree with anything said. Good thing I recently watched the movie twice to get the most out of my five-buck rental. :-)
posted by 41swans at 7:20 PM on April 28, 2022
posted by 41swans at 7:20 PM on April 28, 2022
I agree with everything he said about MJ. It sucks how much Peter ignores her assertion that she wants and chooses crazy life with him instead of a quiet, safe life without him. And it really sucks that he lets that cut on her forehead trump the promise he made to get back in touch with her.
(Also it ought to be fairly easy for Peter to go to Strange and tell him the whole story—Peter knows enough details about Strange's life, home, and magic, and Strange knows memory spells exist—and get Strange's help re-establishing contact with Happy, the Avengers, and Peter's friends.)
But I think the film also deserves to get credit for some good things that most genre films don't have.
The canonical Spider-Man story is that Uncle Ben dies because Peter was using his new powers selfishly. Ben gives Peter his life motto, but otherwise has no agency. He's just there to die so Peter can learn a lesson.
But in No Way Home, May's death is a direct result of her choice to help Osborne instead of sending him back to his death. And while Peter and his reaction to her death are still the focus of the story, when he gets back on his feet, May is not just a pain that motivates him. He's specifically finishing the work she started. The story cares about what she wanted, not just how Peter feels.
The script could have made a better point of this: When the Goblin says, "You killed her, Peter," he should have replied, "No, I was gonna kill you, but May saved you. And even though you killed her, you're still going to owe her your life."
And I definitely want superhero movies that are more about the hero trying to save his worst enemies than just dueling some villain to the death. For all Sony's greed and ineptitude, this movie gets even closer to that spirit than any of the Disney Marvel movies. I think CJ the X is wrong to dismiss Peter's character arc as not killing Osborne because another Spider-Man steps in and stops him. Peter made the decision to go into the lab with his bros and devise ways to cure the villains, not kill them. I don't think losing his temper in battle erases that. When the other Peter steps in, it is not to force him to do what's right but to remind him of the decision he'd already made.
posted by straight at 12:29 AM on April 29, 2022 [22 favorites]
(Also it ought to be fairly easy for Peter to go to Strange and tell him the whole story—Peter knows enough details about Strange's life, home, and magic, and Strange knows memory spells exist—and get Strange's help re-establishing contact with Happy, the Avengers, and Peter's friends.)
But I think the film also deserves to get credit for some good things that most genre films don't have.
The canonical Spider-Man story is that Uncle Ben dies because Peter was using his new powers selfishly. Ben gives Peter his life motto, but otherwise has no agency. He's just there to die so Peter can learn a lesson.
But in No Way Home, May's death is a direct result of her choice to help Osborne instead of sending him back to his death. And while Peter and his reaction to her death are still the focus of the story, when he gets back on his feet, May is not just a pain that motivates him. He's specifically finishing the work she started. The story cares about what she wanted, not just how Peter feels.
The script could have made a better point of this: When the Goblin says, "You killed her, Peter," he should have replied, "No, I was gonna kill you, but May saved you. And even though you killed her, you're still going to owe her your life."
And I definitely want superhero movies that are more about the hero trying to save his worst enemies than just dueling some villain to the death. For all Sony's greed and ineptitude, this movie gets even closer to that spirit than any of the Disney Marvel movies. I think CJ the X is wrong to dismiss Peter's character arc as not killing Osborne because another Spider-Man steps in and stops him. Peter made the decision to go into the lab with his bros and devise ways to cure the villains, not kill them. I don't think losing his temper in battle erases that. When the other Peter steps in, it is not to force him to do what's right but to remind him of the decision he'd already made.
posted by straight at 12:29 AM on April 29, 2022 [22 favorites]
Umm... this links to a two minute video containing spoilers for Miraculous season 4. Did the uploader delete the original?
posted by sixohsix at 12:57 AM on April 29, 2022
posted by sixohsix at 12:57 AM on April 29, 2022
Yes, it seems to have been deleted and replaced with a small clip from the original 40 min essay. I watched it a couple of hours ago, so it was a pretty recent switch.
posted by Proofs and Refutations at 1:52 AM on April 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Proofs and Refutations at 1:52 AM on April 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
it seems to have been deleted and replaced with a small clip
But how ? As a creator you can't replace videos so that they have the same URL. Is this a Youtube glitch ?
posted by Pendragon at 2:20 AM on April 29, 2022
But how ? As a creator you can't replace videos so that they have the same URL. Is this a Youtube glitch ?
posted by Pendragon at 2:20 AM on April 29, 2022
I just tried the link and got "This video is private". No update from CJ on twitter or instagram, just lots of other folks with similar experiences, some speculation about getting hit by a copywrite strike.
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 6:23 AM on April 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 6:23 AM on April 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
Looks like CJ screwed things up and it will be back shortly.
posted by knownassociate at 6:31 AM on April 29, 2022
posted by knownassociate at 6:31 AM on April 29, 2022
I really enjoyed the movie but also disliked how MJ and Ned got Donna Noble'd. I assumed that this was a setup for the payoff of Peter reconnecting with his friends in the next movie, but maybe I'm wrong.
> (Also it ought to be fairly easy for Peter to go to Strange and tell him the whole story—Peter knows enough details about Strange's life, home, and magic, and Strange knows memory spells exist—and get Strange's help re-establishing contact with Happy, the Avengers, and Peter's friends.)
I read an interview with the writers where they basically admitted that the logic of the memory eraser spell doesn't make sense if you spend any time thinking about it. Did all the videos, text messages and photos of Peter disappear? What the heck do MJ and Ned remember about their trip to Europe?
posted by justkevin at 7:25 AM on April 29, 2022
> (Also it ought to be fairly easy for Peter to go to Strange and tell him the whole story—Peter knows enough details about Strange's life, home, and magic, and Strange knows memory spells exist—and get Strange's help re-establishing contact with Happy, the Avengers, and Peter's friends.)
I read an interview with the writers where they basically admitted that the logic of the memory eraser spell doesn't make sense if you spend any time thinking about it. Did all the videos, text messages and photos of Peter disappear? What the heck do MJ and Ned remember about their trip to Europe?
posted by justkevin at 7:25 AM on April 29, 2022
I got the impression that "memory" was a shorthand for this being a total reality-rewriting spell, so yeah, photos, texts, letters, etc were gone. Memories that relied on Peter being there to happen got rewritten to not include him. It helps that apparently Spiderman was still a thing even if Peter Parker wasn't.
What bugs me is he's clearly an unperson now, so how did he get an apartment at the end, and with what money? I realize that there are people who know how to do that, but Peter Parker wouldn't have had the necessary skills.
I'm going to be mad if Sorcerer Ned isn't a thing in the next movie.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 8:54 AM on April 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
What bugs me is he's clearly an unperson now, so how did he get an apartment at the end, and with what money? I realize that there are people who know how to do that, but Peter Parker wouldn't have had the necessary skills.
I'm going to be mad if Sorcerer Ned isn't a thing in the next movie.
posted by The Monster at the End of this Thread at 8:54 AM on April 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
The Jeff Bezos vs Bo Burnham video essay is 2.5 hours. And worth it!
posted by cape at 9:49 AM on April 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by cape at 9:49 AM on April 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
Cape, agreed. If anyone is waiting for this video to be fixed, check out that video. It was so good and I haven’t even watched Inside yet.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 12:02 PM on April 29, 2022
posted by [insert clever name here] at 12:02 PM on April 29, 2022
I don't watch comic book movies
(not because they're "not art" or anything, but because I want to watch them in order and there's now so many I've given up)
and I thoroughly enjoyed this.
CJ seems to have a level of intelligence and energy that could easily end in self destruction. Which I hope a)never happens and b) is just part of their youtube persona anyway
posted by plasmatron7 at 2:43 PM on April 29, 2022
(not because they're "not art" or anything, but because I want to watch them in order and there's now so many I've given up)
and I thoroughly enjoyed this.
CJ seems to have a level of intelligence and energy that could easily end in self destruction. Which I hope a)never happens and b) is just part of their youtube persona anyway
posted by plasmatron7 at 2:43 PM on April 29, 2022
l was in a hurry and watched the CJ video at 1.75x speed and it was a lot.
posted by straight at 9:49 PM on April 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by straight at 9:49 PM on April 29, 2022 [1 favorite]
plasmatron7, all you have to do is have a baby, plan to use your maternity leave to watch everything in order, make a tiny bit of progress, resign yourself to having to go back to work, and then become unemployed due to a pandemic! Then you’ll have plenty of time! That’s what I did! (lol sob?)
posted by Night_owl at 10:08 PM on April 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Night_owl at 10:08 PM on April 29, 2022 [2 favorites]
l was in a hurry and watched the CJ video at 1.75x speed and it was a lot.
Yeah, he already speaks at 1.5x
posted by simmering octagon at 11:29 AM on April 30, 2022
Yeah, he already speaks at 1.5x
posted by simmering octagon at 11:29 AM on April 30, 2022
I generally dislike video essays for the time commitment
Is there a written version somewhere?
Or a tldr summary?
Thanks
posted by cheshyre at 8:01 AM on May 1, 2022
Is there a written version somewhere?
Or a tldr summary?
Thanks
posted by cheshyre at 8:01 AM on May 1, 2022
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What surprised me the most was his take about MJ. I haven't seen her fate talked about before in quite that way, at least in the fandom spaces I usually visit.
posted by simmering octagon at 5:40 PM on April 28, 2022