Leopards, Mountain Lions, and Cities
July 1, 2022 4:36 AM Subscribe
Two Megacities, Los Angeles and Mumbai, have large felines that breed, hunt, and maintain territory within urban boundaries.
Bee'swings you're not wrong.
There was a quote from a guy in the newspaper here in Cape Town that his encounter with a leopard was like "fighting with a blender".
posted by Zumbador at 5:03 AM on July 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
There was a quote from a guy in the newspaper here in Cape Town that his encounter with a leopard was like "fighting with a blender".
posted by Zumbador at 5:03 AM on July 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
I live in the foothills of the Andes, in Santiago, Chile. It's not uncommon for pumas (aka cougars) to come down from the increasingly arid mountains. A while ago there was a reported sighting of one around my block, in the houses near us. We were scared for our cats.
posted by signal at 5:46 AM on July 1, 2022
posted by signal at 5:46 AM on July 1, 2022
I mean. I’d rather not deal with either. People in the US have this weird blind spot where they deny that Mountain Lions are lions. They’re lions, people.
posted by q*ben at 6:13 AM on July 1, 2022
posted by q*ben at 6:13 AM on July 1, 2022
There's a fascinating book about what happens when people build homes in the same place where successful conservation efforts have built back the population of mountain lions (in this case, Rocky Mountain suburbs) called The Beast in the Garden by David Baron.
As a counterweight, Craig Pittman wrote another book called 'Cat Tale: The Wild, Weird Battle to Save The Florida Panther' that looks at failures to do the same, and what human encroachment looks like from that perspective.
posted by jordantwodelta at 6:16 AM on July 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
As a counterweight, Craig Pittman wrote another book called 'Cat Tale: The Wild, Weird Battle to Save The Florida Panther' that looks at failures to do the same, and what human encroachment looks like from that perspective.
posted by jordantwodelta at 6:16 AM on July 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
My theory (supported by absolutely no scientific evidence) is that mountain lions that attacked people were shot by farmers or ranchers for about 100 years, leaving only more shy creatures in the gene pool.
posted by Bee'sWing at 6:31 AM on July 1, 2022
posted by Bee'sWing at 6:31 AM on July 1, 2022
LA has lots of potentially dangerous wildlife within its urban boundaries. Also has coyotes and bears.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:16 AM on July 1, 2022
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:16 AM on July 1, 2022
I saw a mountain lion in the city limits of Jerome, AZ back in the 90s.
It was a cool experience but not particularly shocking - Jerome is surrounded by prey^H^H^H wildlife.
posted by djeo at 8:47 AM on July 1, 2022
It was a cool experience but not particularly shocking - Jerome is surrounded by prey^H^H^H wildlife.
posted by djeo at 8:47 AM on July 1, 2022
q*ben
Strictly speaking, no.
Most of the big cats (including lions) are "pantherines," that is members of the genus Panthera. The so-called "mountain lion" is properly a cougar, which is off by itself in genus Puma.
Cougars are apex predators, which means they are capable of eating you. But that does not make them lions.
</pedant>
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 10:06 AM on July 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
They’re lions, people.<pedant>
Strictly speaking, no.
Most of the big cats (including lions) are "pantherines," that is members of the genus Panthera. The so-called "mountain lion" is properly a cougar, which is off by itself in genus Puma.
Cougars are apex predators, which means they are capable of eating you. But that does not make them lions.
</pedant>
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 10:06 AM on July 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
I mean. I’d rather not deal with either. People in the US have this weird blind spot where they deny that Mountain Lions are lions
like they minimize the threat? they way people on Nextdoor act, every cougar spotting around here jacks up the already insane amount of fear and hyperbole on the platform.
posted by Dr. Twist at 10:10 AM on July 1, 2022
like they minimize the threat? they way people on Nextdoor act, every cougar spotting around here jacks up the already insane amount of fear and hyperbole on the platform.
posted by Dr. Twist at 10:10 AM on July 1, 2022
Maybe it’s just my personal subcommunity (outdoor sports enthusiasts) but I’ve always found it strange that people will go on and on about sharks and bears, which while certainly a concern have a pretty good track record in California with humans, while simultaneously dismissing that there is any danger in biking or running alone in the foothills, which is by the numbers a much riskier activity.
posted by q*ben at 11:58 AM on July 1, 2022
posted by q*ben at 11:58 AM on July 1, 2022
I don’t hear much about sharks, but bears, maybe just because they are large, and you are far more likely to see (and notice) a bear? I lived in the foothills in Southern California for years, and I never saw a mountain lion, but I had at least four bear encounters. (Including rounding a corner while walking uphill on a paved road and seeing a large bear maybe 25 feet away walking downhill towards me, which was . . . quite a thrill, but I didn’t really fear for my life.)
I was more scared the one time I ran into a bobcat on a trail, and very glad that I wasn’t alone. Rattlesnakes are also common, and deadlier than bears, albeit usually easier to just walk around without having to nope out of the whole situation.
posted by mubba at 1:39 PM on July 1, 2022
I was more scared the one time I ran into a bobcat on a trail, and very glad that I wasn’t alone. Rattlesnakes are also common, and deadlier than bears, albeit usually easier to just walk around without having to nope out of the whole situation.
posted by mubba at 1:39 PM on July 1, 2022
My rule and experience with cougars (mountain lions) is that if you even see one within about 2-3x the distance you can throw a rock, you're probably in trouble and need to get defensive and do the things you're supposed to do like making yourself louder and bigger and not turning and running away.
If you see one at a much greater distance, say on top of a ridge of a rock outcrop and it's just chilling, that's different, but if it's on your local terrain and it's letting you see it and it can see you there's probably something wrong with it and it's either sick or too hungry or too thirsty.
They're really good at not being seen and moving quietly through the terrain and they really, really don't like being seen by humans. That's why personal sightings are so rare. They're big cats and they're basically expert ninjas at being quiet and stealthy and not being seen.
If you've spent any appreciable amount time in the mountains and undeveloped parts of the West Coast going hiking or biking - and it doesn't have to be deep in the back country, it can be right next to developed suburban areas - there are really good odds you've been stalked or at least watched by one. If you've ever been out there and suddenly had an intense feeling that you're being watched there's a non zero chance that it was likely a cougar watching you from somewhere where you couldn't see it.
I have spent a lot of time solo pretty far out into the boonies, and I have definitely been stalked and/or watched by cougars a dozen times now, both day and night, and every single time there was definitely this really intense and sudden feeling of being watched by something that wasn't human. And I spend enough time in the outdoors I can tell you if the noises you're hearing in the woods is a human trying to be quiet or a deer browsing around or a squirrel rustling in the leaf litter. Humans in particular are very noisy and have a very distinctive sound signature.
One notable time was at night when I wandered off from a small group camp out with friends so I could get away from the campfire and other people to go star watching for a little while, and on my way back in the dark with a very dim flashlight running out of batteries I suddenly had this "I'm being watched!" feeling and all the hair on my neck and arms stood up, and I started walking quieter, and I definitely heard some heavier weight but padded sounding footfalls in the sand and chaparral and rustles maybe 10 yards off the trail in the brush that was parallel to my movement on the trail and it took a lot of nerve to not just start running. A few hundred feet later of trying to walk quietly and calmly and staring back into the bushes with my nearly dead flashlight I heard a tiny moment of some kind of a partial growl or throat rumble that was more than enough confirmation to let me know that I was being stalked.
When I got back to camp we threw some more wood on the fire and started banging the hell out of our pots and pans and mess kits, we heard something padding and rustling away and that intense "I'm being watched!" feeling faded immediately.
posted by loquacious at 1:41 PM on July 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
If you see one at a much greater distance, say on top of a ridge of a rock outcrop and it's just chilling, that's different, but if it's on your local terrain and it's letting you see it and it can see you there's probably something wrong with it and it's either sick or too hungry or too thirsty.
They're really good at not being seen and moving quietly through the terrain and they really, really don't like being seen by humans. That's why personal sightings are so rare. They're big cats and they're basically expert ninjas at being quiet and stealthy and not being seen.
If you've spent any appreciable amount time in the mountains and undeveloped parts of the West Coast going hiking or biking - and it doesn't have to be deep in the back country, it can be right next to developed suburban areas - there are really good odds you've been stalked or at least watched by one. If you've ever been out there and suddenly had an intense feeling that you're being watched there's a non zero chance that it was likely a cougar watching you from somewhere where you couldn't see it.
I have spent a lot of time solo pretty far out into the boonies, and I have definitely been stalked and/or watched by cougars a dozen times now, both day and night, and every single time there was definitely this really intense and sudden feeling of being watched by something that wasn't human. And I spend enough time in the outdoors I can tell you if the noises you're hearing in the woods is a human trying to be quiet or a deer browsing around or a squirrel rustling in the leaf litter. Humans in particular are very noisy and have a very distinctive sound signature.
One notable time was at night when I wandered off from a small group camp out with friends so I could get away from the campfire and other people to go star watching for a little while, and on my way back in the dark with a very dim flashlight running out of batteries I suddenly had this "I'm being watched!" feeling and all the hair on my neck and arms stood up, and I started walking quieter, and I definitely heard some heavier weight but padded sounding footfalls in the sand and chaparral and rustles maybe 10 yards off the trail in the brush that was parallel to my movement on the trail and it took a lot of nerve to not just start running. A few hundred feet later of trying to walk quietly and calmly and staring back into the bushes with my nearly dead flashlight I heard a tiny moment of some kind of a partial growl or throat rumble that was more than enough confirmation to let me know that I was being stalked.
When I got back to camp we threw some more wood on the fire and started banging the hell out of our pots and pans and mess kits, we heard something padding and rustling away and that intense "I'm being watched!" feeling faded immediately.
posted by loquacious at 1:41 PM on July 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
I was more scared the one time I ran into a bobcat on a trail, and very glad that I wasn’t alone. Rattlesnakes are also common, and deadlier than bears,
Bobcats are the size of normal cats. Why were you afraid? And I don't really find snakes and bears to be comparable in danger. Yes, more people are struck by rattlesnakes than bears because by the time they rattle you are basically on top of them. If people walked right up on bears and didn't retreat until they growl, then let's see the stats.
And animals are animals. They have ninja times and they have normal times, including mountain lions. They like foxes and bobcats are pretty easy to find and kill if that's your goal.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:04 PM on July 1, 2022
Bobcats are the size of normal cats. Why were you afraid? And I don't really find snakes and bears to be comparable in danger. Yes, more people are struck by rattlesnakes than bears because by the time they rattle you are basically on top of them. If people walked right up on bears and didn't retreat until they growl, then let's see the stats.
And animals are animals. They have ninja times and they have normal times, including mountain lions. They like foxes and bobcats are pretty easy to find and kill if that's your goal.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:04 PM on July 1, 2022
I will try to find the article at some point, but I recently read a story discussing human evolution in the context of "deep time", and one of the points I found interesting was that big cats were very likely the planet's apex predator, across most of its land mass, for significantly longer than biologically-modern humans have existed.
Although there were also some pretty big canids that survived into the early Holocene (e.g. the dire wolf, Aenocyon dirus, may have only gone extinct about 9,500 years ago), my understanding is they probably would have given the big cats like Smilodon a wide berth if they came upon each other.
I don't know why, but it's a bit of a mindfuck to me that that large cats were basically evolution's most perfect predation machine, until a bunch of jumped-up monkeys came along and literally ate their lunch in an eyeblink.
posted by Kadin2048 at 3:08 PM on July 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
Although there were also some pretty big canids that survived into the early Holocene (e.g. the dire wolf, Aenocyon dirus, may have only gone extinct about 9,500 years ago), my understanding is they probably would have given the big cats like Smilodon a wide berth if they came upon each other.
I don't know why, but it's a bit of a mindfuck to me that that large cats were basically evolution's most perfect predation machine, until a bunch of jumped-up monkeys came along and literally ate their lunch in an eyeblink.
posted by Kadin2048 at 3:08 PM on July 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't know why, but it's a bit of a mindfuck to me that that large cats were basically evolution's most perfect predation machine, until a bunch of jumped-up monkeys came along and literally ate their lunch in an eyeblink.
There are a large number of videos I've seen where monkeys and apes weren't just eating their lunch but they're actively fucking with them for entertainment.
"Oh, you think you're fierce with those teeth? I have thumbs."
posted by loquacious at 3:19 PM on July 1, 2022
There are a large number of videos I've seen where monkeys and apes weren't just eating their lunch but they're actively fucking with them for entertainment.
"Oh, you think you're fierce with those teeth? I have thumbs."
posted by loquacious at 3:19 PM on July 1, 2022
Living on a soft island on the fringe of Europe,. the nearest we have to an apex predator is the urban fox, and I am slightly enchanted )at a distance_ by the idea of urban big cats.
It's 3am here (I have insomnia) and from my window I can see one of our urban foxes sitting in the middle of the intersection outside my house. Traffic is low, but every so often a car or night bus will come along, and each time he/she gives it a look of contempt and wanders towards the kerb in a pointed manner, just like the one in the Wind in the Willows, who "swaggered off, sniggering", then saunters bnack to the middle of the road.
I suspect it may be specific to foxes, but the idea of a leopard or puma with that sort of attitude is pretty terrifying.
posted by Fuchsoid at 7:09 PM on July 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
It's 3am here (I have insomnia) and from my window I can see one of our urban foxes sitting in the middle of the intersection outside my house. Traffic is low, but every so often a car or night bus will come along, and each time he/she gives it a look of contempt and wanders towards the kerb in a pointed manner, just like the one in the Wind in the Willows, who "swaggered off, sniggering", then saunters bnack to the middle of the road.
I suspect it may be specific to foxes, but the idea of a leopard or puma with that sort of attitude is pretty terrifying.
posted by Fuchsoid at 7:09 PM on July 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
I suspect it may be specific to foxes, but the idea of a leopard or puma with that sort of attitude is pretty terrifying.
This is why I find baboons so scary.
Especially if I'm with a dog!
It's not like baboons are predators, but they have absolutely *none* of the fear of humans I'm used to seeing in most wild animals. And they kill dogs.
I was once on a hike in a long, narrow gorge, and we met a some people who told us that there was a troop of baboons about who were grabbing people's stuff. One of the women had had her bag snatched off her back.
There was the usual talk about how to make yourself look big and scary, and the usual musings about how interesting it was that baboons are not impressed by women, and more likely to be intimidated by men, which people just love to dwell on for some reason.
So, *really* narrow gorge, more of a corridor, with tall bushes on either side.
Started finding things on the path like a Liqui Fruit box that had been completely torn in half. You have to have a pretty impressive set of teeth to do that.
We were shaking branches and shouting, banging water bottles together.
We saw the baboons soon enough, on either side of the road and looking down on us from their perfect ambush positions. They seemed totally unimpressed by our attempts to intimidate them, but they did stay away from us .
Not the most enjoyable hike I've been on.
Baboons look at you like you're one of them and that's surprisingly disturbing.
posted by Zumbador at 8:11 PM on July 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
This is why I find baboons so scary.
Especially if I'm with a dog!
It's not like baboons are predators, but they have absolutely *none* of the fear of humans I'm used to seeing in most wild animals. And they kill dogs.
I was once on a hike in a long, narrow gorge, and we met a some people who told us that there was a troop of baboons about who were grabbing people's stuff. One of the women had had her bag snatched off her back.
There was the usual talk about how to make yourself look big and scary, and the usual musings about how interesting it was that baboons are not impressed by women, and more likely to be intimidated by men, which people just love to dwell on for some reason.
So, *really* narrow gorge, more of a corridor, with tall bushes on either side.
Started finding things on the path like a Liqui Fruit box that had been completely torn in half. You have to have a pretty impressive set of teeth to do that.
We were shaking branches and shouting, banging water bottles together.
We saw the baboons soon enough, on either side of the road and looking down on us from their perfect ambush positions. They seemed totally unimpressed by our attempts to intimidate them, but they did stay away from us .
Not the most enjoyable hike I've been on.
Baboons look at you like you're one of them and that's surprisingly disturbing.
posted by Zumbador at 8:11 PM on July 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
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posted by Bee'sWing at 4:58 AM on July 1, 2022 [1 favorite]