“It’s kinda the squeak I was looking for,” Curtis said softly.
July 15, 2022 1:30 PM Subscribe
The Weird Analog Delights of Sound Effects. "Roden estimated that only twenty per cent of sounds onscreen are generated by the actual objects represented. This presents certain challenges: when a sound cannot be described by its referent, language starts to falter. Over time, Roesch, Roden, and Curtis have developed a lexicon to describe what they want. Sounds are poofy, slimy, or naturale; they might need to be slappier, or raspier, or nebby (nebulous). They are hingey, ticky, boxy, zippy, or clacky; they are tonal, tasty, punchy, splattery, smacky, spanky. They might be described phonetically—a “kachunk-kachunk-kachunk,” or a “scritcher”—or straightforwardly (“fake”). Tools, too, have their own names. Shings make shiny metallic sounds—a sword being drawn from its scabbard—and wronkers give the impression of metal sliding across a hard surface. “Like, chhhrtz,” Roesch clarified."
"An essential part of Foley is creating a consistent, coherent reality—which, in the hyperreal world of cinema, is fundamentally skewed. Foley artists often speak of “selling” a sound: making it legible and credible, even when it is dramatized. Deception is an essential part of the enterprise. Things are not as they sound. “You say, ‘This sound is so unbelievably creepy,’ ” Lynch told me. “And they say, ‘It’s my kid’s sweater.’ ” It is incredibly hard to reverse engineer a well-crafted sound effect, particularly if it is first experienced in the context of a visual. There is no way to know, for example, that, for the sound of hatching dinosaur eggs in “Jurassic Park,” the Foley artist Dennie Thorpe layered the cracking sounds of crushed ice-cream cones with the juicy effect of a hand in a melon. Fincher told me that experimentation was crucial. “Sometimes you hear a sound and you say, ‘That’s amazing, what is that?’ ” he said. “It’s, like, ‘Well, that’s yogurt, shot through a hollowed-out tennis-ball can.’"
---
"Curtis was in the market for a squeaky hinge. “There was a door at the Paramount stage that had the best creak,” he said. “The funny thing was, the cleaning crew discovered this hinge squeak, and they lubricated the squeak—the hinge. It was never the same.”"
"An essential part of Foley is creating a consistent, coherent reality—which, in the hyperreal world of cinema, is fundamentally skewed. Foley artists often speak of “selling” a sound: making it legible and credible, even when it is dramatized. Deception is an essential part of the enterprise. Things are not as they sound. “You say, ‘This sound is so unbelievably creepy,’ ” Lynch told me. “And they say, ‘It’s my kid’s sweater.’ ” It is incredibly hard to reverse engineer a well-crafted sound effect, particularly if it is first experienced in the context of a visual. There is no way to know, for example, that, for the sound of hatching dinosaur eggs in “Jurassic Park,” the Foley artist Dennie Thorpe layered the cracking sounds of crushed ice-cream cones with the juicy effect of a hand in a melon. Fincher told me that experimentation was crucial. “Sometimes you hear a sound and you say, ‘That’s amazing, what is that?’ ” he said. “It’s, like, ‘Well, that’s yogurt, shot through a hollowed-out tennis-ball can.’"
---
"Curtis was in the market for a squeaky hinge. “There was a door at the Paramount stage that had the best creak,” he said. “The funny thing was, the cleaning crew discovered this hinge squeak, and they lubricated the squeak—the hinge. It was never the same.”"
Man, what a fun job.
posted by gottabefunky at 2:02 PM on July 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 2:02 PM on July 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
TFW Stranger Things' captions depict sounds with hilarious adjectives such as "wetly" "moistly" "squelchily"... [ grabs cheek, pinches it, and pulls in/out rapidly to make wet, moist, squelching sounds ]
posted by seanmpuckett at 2:13 PM on July 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 2:13 PM on July 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
Thanks for posting, that was some interesting reading!
It made me think about a couple sound things: how in some films the low-angle shot of shoes walking over pavement is always accompanied by that "click click" shoe sound, as if everyone wears tap shoes? I assume this is not-great Foley. It also makes me think, "hey director/writer/costumer, look around-- not many people wear shoes that make that much noise, anymore." .
But I also think about sounds I like a lot, the zzzzzhhhhhhhhuuuuuzzzzzhhhh of heavy silk-- a scene in the film Taboo does this so very well, you can absolutely tell that's the heaviest weight brocaded silk ever, slowly dragging over the mats.
There's a scene in Delicatessen (there are many many great sounds scenes in that film!) where the brothers are in their workshop apartment, making little hand held novelty toys that go "moooo" when turned over. I used to have several of those moo cans, I love the complete silliness of purpose.
posted by winesong at 3:09 PM on July 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
It made me think about a couple sound things: how in some films the low-angle shot of shoes walking over pavement is always accompanied by that "click click" shoe sound, as if everyone wears tap shoes? I assume this is not-great Foley. It also makes me think, "hey director/writer/costumer, look around-- not many people wear shoes that make that much noise, anymore." .
But I also think about sounds I like a lot, the zzzzzhhhhhhhhuuuuuzzzzzhhhh of heavy silk-- a scene in the film Taboo does this so very well, you can absolutely tell that's the heaviest weight brocaded silk ever, slowly dragging over the mats.
There's a scene in Delicatessen (there are many many great sounds scenes in that film!) where the brothers are in their workshop apartment, making little hand held novelty toys that go "moooo" when turned over. I used to have several of those moo cans, I love the complete silliness of purpose.
posted by winesong at 3:09 PM on July 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
I was watching Fando and Lis by Jodorowsky which I don’t think was done with sync sound. It all sounds like the dialog and sound effects were done after filming. Hearing all the foley footsteps etc I was wondering about taking a film and doing a dada foley track, sounds all synced to the action but not appropriate, like teaspoons clicking for footsteps, a plop when someone slams a glass on to a table, etc. My weird mind at work…
posted by njohnson23 at 3:31 PM on July 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 3:31 PM on July 15, 2022 [7 favorites]
Terrific and fascinating read - thanks for posting!
TFW Stranger Things' captions depict sounds with hilarious adjectives such as "wetly" "moistly" "squelchily"...
The specific effect I always think of when Foley FX are mentioned is one from The Archers (BBC radio rural soap opera): the sound of delivering a ewe’s lamb is simulated by squelching hands around in yoghurt. Learnt that on a BBC documentary years ago, and for some reason have never forgotten it.
posted by Morfil Ffyrnig at 3:32 PM on July 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
TFW Stranger Things' captions depict sounds with hilarious adjectives such as "wetly" "moistly" "squelchily"...
The specific effect I always think of when Foley FX are mentioned is one from The Archers (BBC radio rural soap opera): the sound of delivering a ewe’s lamb is simulated by squelching hands around in yoghurt. Learnt that on a BBC documentary years ago, and for some reason have never forgotten it.
posted by Morfil Ffyrnig at 3:32 PM on July 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
I read this earlier in the week and loved it.
Coincidentally, the best sound effects engineer and foley artist I ever worked with, Tom Courtenay-Clack passed away last week. Among other credits, he created sounds for Rudolph's Shiny New Year and the Rankin Bass animated version of The Hobbit,, did all of the interstitial promos for Nickelodeon and Comedy Central (as well as many of them for MTV) when they launched, and created the novelty :45 "The Longest Fart in the World," whose B-Side, "The Biggest Bowel Movement, Bar None" was illegally sampled in Dumb and Dumber. Legend has it that someone saw the film and called Clack, saying "isn't that your bowel movement...?"
Sorry if this was a derail. A noisy, farty, train-whistly derail. Analog sound effects are the best.
posted by Mchelly at 4:17 PM on July 15, 2022 [25 favorites]
Coincidentally, the best sound effects engineer and foley artist I ever worked with, Tom Courtenay-Clack passed away last week. Among other credits, he created sounds for Rudolph's Shiny New Year and the Rankin Bass animated version of The Hobbit,, did all of the interstitial promos for Nickelodeon and Comedy Central (as well as many of them for MTV) when they launched, and created the novelty :45 "The Longest Fart in the World," whose B-Side, "The Biggest Bowel Movement, Bar None" was illegally sampled in Dumb and Dumber. Legend has it that someone saw the film and called Clack, saying "isn't that your bowel movement...?"
Sorry if this was a derail. A noisy, farty, train-whistly derail. Analog sound effects are the best.
posted by Mchelly at 4:17 PM on July 15, 2022 [25 favorites]
njohnson23, Alphaville isn't dada, but Godard uses foley in the way you describe to help establish the SF setting, its part of the whole conceit of filming an SF story on contemporary sets. More complicated but thats my main memory of when I saw it.
posted by kittensofthenight at 5:49 PM on July 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by kittensofthenight at 5:49 PM on July 15, 2022 [1 favorite]
I feel like I've asked this before?
Everybody knows the Wilhelm Scream, and the Howie Scream. What's the name for the wildcat scream noise that's often composited into SFX for explosions?
Y'know, someone shoots a gas tank and there's a fireball with a boom and a ree-yow!! sound? That reeyow is so common it must have a name. "The levels are good; but can we sweeten it with [jaguar noise]?"
posted by bartleby at 7:51 PM on July 15, 2022
Everybody knows the Wilhelm Scream, and the Howie Scream. What's the name for the wildcat scream noise that's often composited into SFX for explosions?
Y'know, someone shoots a gas tank and there's a fireball with a boom and a ree-yow!! sound? That reeyow is so common it must have a name. "The levels are good; but can we sweeten it with [jaguar noise]?"
posted by bartleby at 7:51 PM on July 15, 2022
What a great thread. I spent part of my career on the technology side of audio post-production, so I got to know and observe some great Foley work, as well as many other sound-effect editors.
A recording of the "real" thing doesn't always sound right or dramatic enough in a movie. Which is why most non-dialogue sound is added in post, rather than being recorded on set. Example: real swords don't all go "shinnnngggg", but we still expect it.
Fun fact - most nature documentaries have Foley too, to generate plausible sound to match on-screen action. I got to watch one such session. An unspooled pile of 1/4" analog tape is great for rustling grass.
A step up in abstraction is sound design, where all the production's sounds are selected and coordinated (for lack of a better word) to convey a particular mood or setting. It's almost like music composition.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:01 PM on July 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
A recording of the "real" thing doesn't always sound right or dramatic enough in a movie. Which is why most non-dialogue sound is added in post, rather than being recorded on set. Example: real swords don't all go "shinnnngggg", but we still expect it.
Fun fact - most nature documentaries have Foley too, to generate plausible sound to match on-screen action. I got to watch one such session. An unspooled pile of 1/4" analog tape is great for rustling grass.
A step up in abstraction is sound design, where all the production's sounds are selected and coordinated (for lack of a better word) to convey a particular mood or setting. It's almost like music composition.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:01 PM on July 15, 2022 [5 favorites]
Haven't seen it linked yet but years ago I watched this illuminating video about foley work - Track Stars: The Unseen Heroes of Movie Sound (1979 Foley Art Demo) which shows a side by side demo of the visuals versus two foley artists, Terry Burke and Andy Malcolm. I've linked it to where the action sequence starts.
In retrospect I see it's been posted twice to Metafilter (2009, 2012). This video is a remaster of the original 1979 tapes.
posted by xdvesper at 8:16 PM on July 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
In retrospect I see it's been posted twice to Metafilter (2009, 2012). This video is a remaster of the original 1979 tapes.
posted by xdvesper at 8:16 PM on July 15, 2022 [3 favorites]
a scene in the film Taboo does this so very well, you can absolutely tell that's the heaviest weight brocaded silk ever, slowly dragging over the mats.
My favorite movie silk sound is the sound of Lady Asaji Washizu in Throne of Blood shuffling in her silk robes bringing doom.
posted by vorpal bunny at 8:24 PM on July 15, 2022
My favorite movie silk sound is the sound of Lady Asaji Washizu in Throne of Blood shuffling in her silk robes bringing doom.
posted by vorpal bunny at 8:24 PM on July 15, 2022
An unspooled pile of 1/4" analog tape
Great-sounding username up for grabs
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:47 PM on July 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
Great-sounding username up for grabs
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:47 PM on July 15, 2022 [4 favorites]
This episode of the podcast Twenty Thousand Hertz about Foley artists is excellent.
Also this one.
They talk about the art of imitating a character's footsteps and how that's the most challenging part.
posted by lookoutbelow at 8:51 PM on July 15, 2022
Also this one.
They talk about the art of imitating a character's footsteps and how that's the most challenging part.
posted by lookoutbelow at 8:51 PM on July 15, 2022
Makes me wonder what kinds of "words" will be used in the [almost certainly inevitable] text-to-audio AI. Maybe such a system can be called Fol-E 2?
posted by bz at 11:35 PM on July 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by bz at 11:35 PM on July 15, 2022 [2 favorites]
This is the main character’s job in the odd 1991 Italian comedy Volere volare (which has me wondering: surely this can’t be the only movie that’s ever explored the eccentricities of a foley artist…?)
posted by progosk at 12:19 AM on July 16, 2022
posted by progosk at 12:19 AM on July 16, 2022
Berberian Sound Studio is a great movie about a foley artist working on a giallo production that goes off the rails.
posted by JoeBlubaugh at 12:31 AM on July 16, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by JoeBlubaugh at 12:31 AM on July 16, 2022 [5 favorites]
I’d love to know just how much work went into the punch sounds in Raiders of the Lost Ark. I’ve never heard punches since that sound half as weighty and solid as those.
posted by Ghidorah at 5:33 AM on July 16, 2022
posted by Ghidorah at 5:33 AM on July 16, 2022
In any case, the craft’s aesthetic ideal isn’t beauty but believability.
This is a beautifully written article about a niche industry that is, alas, subject to automation. I appreciate the views of the Foley artists in that their work cannot be duplicated by machines, but how long will that continue?
The final paragraphs speak of a world filled with the subtle sounds of whirring motors and humming gadgets. Even the great outdoors are invaded with unnatural sounds.
The writer described the shouts and squeals that a visiting child made. These were not the actual sounds of animals and trees, water and wind. The child was repeating what they had heard on TV.
And there is a loss in that.
posted by TrishaU at 6:23 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is a beautifully written article about a niche industry that is, alas, subject to automation. I appreciate the views of the Foley artists in that their work cannot be duplicated by machines, but how long will that continue?
The final paragraphs speak of a world filled with the subtle sounds of whirring motors and humming gadgets. Even the great outdoors are invaded with unnatural sounds.
The writer described the shouts and squeals that a visiting child made. These were not the actual sounds of animals and trees, water and wind. The child was repeating what they had heard on TV.
And there is a loss in that.
posted by TrishaU at 6:23 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
This is a beautifully written article about a niche industry that is, alas, subject to automation. I appreciate the views of the Foley artists in that their work cannot be duplicated by machines, but how long will that continue?
Eventually the sound creation might be totally mechanized, though I suspect it will take longer than you think. There's a lot of *texture* to a good sound that is hard to produce with computers, rather like hair and other complicated to animate things. But even if they no longer need a barn full of interesting things to make sound, someone will still have to orchestrate them. I don't think that, short of full AI, there is any way that you are going to present a scene of dinosaur eggs hatching to a computer and have it come up with the right mixture of crackling and squelching to make the scene resonate.
posted by tavella at 7:26 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Eventually the sound creation might be totally mechanized, though I suspect it will take longer than you think. There's a lot of *texture* to a good sound that is hard to produce with computers, rather like hair and other complicated to animate things. But even if they no longer need a barn full of interesting things to make sound, someone will still have to orchestrate them. I don't think that, short of full AI, there is any way that you are going to present a scene of dinosaur eggs hatching to a computer and have it come up with the right mixture of crackling and squelching to make the scene resonate.
posted by tavella at 7:26 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
I once had a can opener that, when you just spun its knob (not opening a can) made a soft, clickety sound that I came to describe as “happy little machine.”
posted by Thorzdad at 7:47 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Thorzdad at 7:47 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
This being published in the New Yorker reminded me of the old Charles Addams' cartoon that attests that sometimes the best way to get a sound to set the correct circumstances for it.
Foley fascinates me, I adore the fact that so many of the sounds we think we know are not actually the sounds things make.
posted by Hactar at 8:54 AM on July 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
Foley fascinates me, I adore the fact that so many of the sounds we think we know are not actually the sounds things make.
posted by Hactar at 8:54 AM on July 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
Years ago, when I was doing some freelance writing for a theater company, I did a little bit about Foley work which included a little mini-bio of Jack Foley himself, and two examples of the kind of creative ideas he'd come up with.
One thing he did - he was in the editing booth with Stanley Kubrick when Kubrick was editing SPARTACUS, and there was a scene Kubrick had shot in Italy with a bunch of extras where a bunch of slaves were marching along somewhere; but the sound on it was shot. Kubrick was starting to panic about "how the hell are we going to round everyone back up and fix the sound," but Foley said "hang on, I have an idea." He took out his house keys and started jingling them around in a few different ways - and found a way that sounded like the exact kind of "clanking fetters and chains" that Kubrick had been looking for. So they recorded that and used it in the film instead. (I saw the film recently, and I....THINK I was able to tell what scene it was? I'm not sure.)
Another one - he was asked to come up with a "funny motor sound" for a film comedy called The Pink Submarine, so he recorded himself belching, ran that backwards and put that on a loop.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:01 AM on July 16, 2022 [4 favorites]
One thing he did - he was in the editing booth with Stanley Kubrick when Kubrick was editing SPARTACUS, and there was a scene Kubrick had shot in Italy with a bunch of extras where a bunch of slaves were marching along somewhere; but the sound on it was shot. Kubrick was starting to panic about "how the hell are we going to round everyone back up and fix the sound," but Foley said "hang on, I have an idea." He took out his house keys and started jingling them around in a few different ways - and found a way that sounded like the exact kind of "clanking fetters and chains" that Kubrick had been looking for. So they recorded that and used it in the film instead. (I saw the film recently, and I....THINK I was able to tell what scene it was? I'm not sure.)
Another one - he was asked to come up with a "funny motor sound" for a film comedy called The Pink Submarine, so he recorded himself belching, ran that backwards and put that on a loop.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:01 AM on July 16, 2022 [4 favorites]
Sometime in the early 1980s, we got into recording spoken word pieces, and one came our way, called "Ronin, the Masterless Warrior." Being as it was a warrior story told by a narrator, some sound effects of fighting, including bodies falling to the ground/floor were needed. Since we didn't have access to sound FX libraries at the time, a person was needed to hit the floor, noisily, and I volunteered. I think we did about 20 takes and since we were much younger, that didn't hurt too much. Nowadays, I can't imagine doing that work, ow!
posted by Lynsey at 10:39 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by Lynsey at 10:39 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Back in Ye Olden Days I made an audio cassette recording of Star Wars which I would listen to on road trips. It's engrossing to just listen to all the sounds.
I need to do this again. I very recently made an audiobook of the movie Swimming to Cambodia by playing the DVD on my Mac and capturing the audio with Audio Hijack, then using Audiobook Builder.
posted by neuron at 10:59 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
I need to do this again. I very recently made an audiobook of the movie Swimming to Cambodia by playing the DVD on my Mac and capturing the audio with Audio Hijack, then using Audiobook Builder.
posted by neuron at 10:59 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
I have a friend who is a sound designer here in Hollywood. He collects every unique sound he comes across and catalogues them. He pretty much commits each sound to memory and reefer to them at will. It's kind of collecting orphans knowing that there is a unique context for them.
He got me hearing for sounds for awhile. My best catch was the sound of the screws turning on a Washington State Ferry vessels as it was crossing the Puget Sound.
The Conversations: Walter Murch and the Art of Film Editing is a
brilliant read along with his work on Francis Ford Coppola's film, "The Conversation"
posted by goalyeehah at 12:51 PM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
He got me hearing for sounds for awhile. My best catch was the sound of the screws turning on a Washington State Ferry vessels as it was crossing the Puget Sound.
The Conversations: Walter Murch and the Art of Film Editing is a
brilliant read along with his work on Francis Ford Coppola's film, "The Conversation"
posted by goalyeehah at 12:51 PM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
Can you imagine what films would sound like if there were a foley artist strike?
posted by scruss at 12:58 PM on July 16, 2022
posted by scruss at 12:58 PM on July 16, 2022
I love foley. I will never not watch a video about it. It was one of my biggest childhood interests and I still appreciate it today.
What's the name for the wildcat scream noise that's often composited into SFX for explosions?
I had no idea this was a thing. Sounds like there's also some lion roars and maybe a hawk scream in this one? It's pretty distracting and silly, I hope to never encounter it.
posted by rustybullrake at 1:00 PM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
What's the name for the wildcat scream noise that's often composited into SFX for explosions?
I had no idea this was a thing. Sounds like there's also some lion roars and maybe a hawk scream in this one? It's pretty distracting and silly, I hope to never encounter it.
posted by rustybullrake at 1:00 PM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]
That's why I ask. Like the Wilhelm, once you identify it, you start hearing how often it's used. The Wil is in every Star Wars property at least once for instance; and you'll see people smile when they catch it.
I started noticing the explosion meow a long time ago, but haven't tracked down a name for the particular effect. I've resigned myself to "there they go, blowing up a car with a trunk full of pumas again".
posted by bartleby at 1:18 PM on July 16, 2022 [5 favorites]
I started noticing the explosion meow a long time ago, but haven't tracked down a name for the particular effect. I've resigned myself to "there they go, blowing up a car with a trunk full of pumas again".
posted by bartleby at 1:18 PM on July 16, 2022 [5 favorites]
Can you imagine what films would sound like if there were a foley artist strike?
Like solo old-timey piano.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:26 PM on July 16, 2022
Like solo old-timey piano.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:26 PM on July 16, 2022
I always shout out "Wilhelm!" whenever I hear it (even when I'm alone), and now I look forward to adding "Explosion meow!" to that.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:28 PM on July 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:28 PM on July 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
You can get a lot by searching twitter (and youtube I imagine) for "foley assignment," but I thought this was pretty funny.
posted by rhizome at 1:29 PM on July 16, 2022
posted by rhizome at 1:29 PM on July 16, 2022
I'm also wondering if there's someone else with a bee in their bonnet about cliche overused stock footage sound effects. Like a birder hearing 'Bird call,Jungle, #4' for the umpteenth time and going on a rant about WHY are there kookaburras! In a Tarzan movie?!
posted by bartleby at 1:33 PM on July 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by bartleby at 1:33 PM on July 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
Coincidentally, the best sound effects engineer and foley artist I ever worked with, Tom Courtenay-Clack passed away last week. Among other credits, he created sounds for Rudolph's Shiny New Year and the Rankin Bass animated version of The Hobbit,,
I'm sorry to hear that. I was actually just talking to someone about the audio aspects of that very show not long ago.
If you ever worry when running a TTRPG that your NPCs are not distinctive enough, consider actor Jack DeLeon. In the 1977 Rankin-Bass version of The Hobbit, he voiced a troll, a wood elf, some spiders, assorted orcs and goblins... and nine of the twelve dwarves.
Like these characters aren’t indistinguishable enough already. Get one guy to do almost all the voices. Rankin-Bass definitely not cutting corners here.
Anyway, I am disappoint that there is no reference to Don Martin here anywhere. A-SPADOINGLE!
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:40 PM on July 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm sorry to hear that. I was actually just talking to someone about the audio aspects of that very show not long ago.
If you ever worry when running a TTRPG that your NPCs are not distinctive enough, consider actor Jack DeLeon. In the 1977 Rankin-Bass version of The Hobbit, he voiced a troll, a wood elf, some spiders, assorted orcs and goblins... and nine of the twelve dwarves.
Like these characters aren’t indistinguishable enough already. Get one guy to do almost all the voices. Rankin-Bass definitely not cutting corners here.
Anyway, I am disappoint that there is no reference to Don Martin here anywhere. A-SPADOINGLE!
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:40 PM on July 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm also wondering if there's someone else with a bee in their bonnet about cliche overused stock footage sound effects.
I am extremely hung up on "Crowd,Ext,Cheers,Small,Mixed". It's everywhere.
And bird people are always mad about inappropriate bird sound effects (though this is the responsibility of a different crew than the foley team). It's also why every bird of prey sounds just like the red-tailed hawk that is native to Southern California.
posted by Random_Tangent at 4:55 PM on July 16, 2022 [4 favorites]
I am extremely hung up on "Crowd,Ext,Cheers,Small,Mixed". It's everywhere.
And bird people are always mad about inappropriate bird sound effects (though this is the responsibility of a different crew than the foley team). It's also why every bird of prey sounds just like the red-tailed hawk that is native to Southern California.
posted by Random_Tangent at 4:55 PM on July 16, 2022 [4 favorites]
Bicycle rolls on screen ➡️ Bell sound
Horse appears ➡️ “Neigh”
posted by migurski at 7:47 PM on July 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
Horse appears ➡️ “Neigh”
posted by migurski at 7:47 PM on July 16, 2022 [2 favorites]
WHY are there kookaburras! In a Tarzan movie?!
My wife is very tired of me pointing out carrion crow calls in movies set in America.
posted by gubo at 8:31 PM on July 16, 2022
My wife is very tired of me pointing out carrion crow calls in movies set in America.
posted by gubo at 8:31 PM on July 16, 2022
That reeyow is so common it must have a name. "The levels are good; but can we sweeten it with [jaguar noise]?"
In the industry, it's known as sex panther
posted by zippy at 8:31 PM on July 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
In the industry, it's known as sex panther
posted by zippy at 8:31 PM on July 16, 2022 [3 favorites]
This thread gets better and better!
Thanks for the link to the cleaned up version of Track Stars.. Andy Malcolm was the artist I got to observe doing Foley for a nature film. This was at the National Film Board's studios in Montreal. I think he was doing mud squicks and sloshes at the time. Terry Burke was an acquaintance; he passed in 2013.
TrishaU This is a beautifully written article about a niche industry that is, alas, subject to automation. I appreciate the views of the Foley artists in that their work cannot be duplicated by machines, but how long will that continue?
As part of my career in the technology of audio post-production in the early 90's, I helped develop an in-house sfx library system that used AKAI S-900 samplers and a MIDI network to audition and then automatically trigger the desired sound. Nowadays, this is trivial to do, especially in nonlinear digital audio workstations (or DAW, and it's usually ProTools). These tools improve the efficiency of the post process, and yes, cheaper productions often overuse the technology, and have a limited palette of sounds, etc etc. But at the end of the day, somebody (eg director) still has to listen to the result and think - "yeah, that's what's in my head", or "no, it's not working".
So I have no fear of automation or AI replacing sound designers or Foley artists. Technology helps reduce some drudgery, but also gives them more latitude and options. As the article emphasizes,it's people using all their tools creatively to produce what is indisputably art.
... and now I wanna change my user name to Sex Panther.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:44 AM on July 17, 2022 [4 favorites]
Thanks for the link to the cleaned up version of Track Stars.. Andy Malcolm was the artist I got to observe doing Foley for a nature film. This was at the National Film Board's studios in Montreal. I think he was doing mud squicks and sloshes at the time. Terry Burke was an acquaintance; he passed in 2013.
TrishaU This is a beautifully written article about a niche industry that is, alas, subject to automation. I appreciate the views of the Foley artists in that their work cannot be duplicated by machines, but how long will that continue?
As part of my career in the technology of audio post-production in the early 90's, I helped develop an in-house sfx library system that used AKAI S-900 samplers and a MIDI network to audition and then automatically trigger the desired sound. Nowadays, this is trivial to do, especially in nonlinear digital audio workstations (or DAW, and it's usually ProTools). These tools improve the efficiency of the post process, and yes, cheaper productions often overuse the technology, and have a limited palette of sounds, etc etc. But at the end of the day, somebody (eg director) still has to listen to the result and think - "yeah, that's what's in my head", or "no, it's not working".
So I have no fear of automation or AI replacing sound designers or Foley artists. Technology helps reduce some drudgery, but also gives them more latitude and options. As the article emphasizes,it's people using all their tools creatively to produce what is indisputably art.
... and now I wanna change my user name to Sex Panther.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:44 AM on July 17, 2022 [4 favorites]
Hollywood's obsession with the call of the Common Loon* in sound design.
*aka Extremely Goth Duck
posted by bartleby at 10:19 AM on July 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
*aka Extremely Goth Duck
posted by bartleby at 10:19 AM on July 17, 2022 [3 favorites]
I immediately thought of Stranger Things as well.
The plot was hackneyed as hell but the foley all the way through all four series was absolutely top notch.
posted by flabdablet at 11:41 AM on July 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
The plot was hackneyed as hell but the foley all the way through all four series was absolutely top notch.
posted by flabdablet at 11:41 AM on July 17, 2022 [1 favorite]
I'm also wondering if there's someone else with a bee in their bonnet about cliche overused stock footage sound effects.
I focus an unhealthy amount of attention on one particular pottery break noise that is used *everywhere* once you notice it - I think it's in Wet Hot American Summer a half dozen times, almost back to back, and that foley alone cracks me up. There's also a really classic creaking door noise that is *everywhere* once your ear is tuned to it (in my case, from playing Daggerfall for dozens of hours as a youth)
posted by FatherDagon at 10:41 AM on July 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
I focus an unhealthy amount of attention on one particular pottery break noise that is used *everywhere* once you notice it - I think it's in Wet Hot American Summer a half dozen times, almost back to back, and that foley alone cracks me up. There's also a really classic creaking door noise that is *everywhere* once your ear is tuned to it (in my case, from playing Daggerfall for dozens of hours as a youth)
posted by FatherDagon at 10:41 AM on July 18, 2022 [2 favorites]
I actually wonder if some of these are treated as deep-cut Wilhelm adjacent in-jokes from the Foley teams - kind of like how set designers will number rooms '23' way more frequently than you'd expect, just to chuckle at folks who obsess over seeing the number 23 all over the place (until Jim Carrey ruined it)
posted by FatherDagon at 10:43 AM on July 18, 2022
posted by FatherDagon at 10:43 AM on July 18, 2022
...deep-cut Wilhelm adjacent in-jokes
... Oh absolutely. Easy Easter eggs for the novice cineastes.
posted by Artful Codger at 11:07 AM on July 18, 2022
... Oh absolutely. Easy Easter eggs for the novice cineastes.
posted by Artful Codger at 11:07 AM on July 18, 2022
I'm also wondering if there's someone else with a bee in their bonnet about cliche overused stock footage sound effects.
This is one place where theater excels - sometimes our sound effects are prerecorded, but sometimes they are live, and there are all sorts of weird fun things you can do. I worked on a show once that was written in the mid-1800s or something, and we decided to really lean into how old-fashioned it was and staged it so it was as if you had stepped back in time and were actually watching the show in the mid-1800s. So it was super-fake sets and costumes and makeup, and a guy sitting in the corner doing all the sound effects in full view of the audience. And that got fun - there was some kind of loop of canvas on a hand crank you cranked for a wind sound effect, random pots and pans to bang for things, stuff like that.
One of my favorite tricks is something called a "crash box", where you take a big box and fill it about half full with pots, pans, broken dishes, broken glasses, etc. and then close it up, and then when you need a "crash" sound, someone just pushes it over or drops it. (Tangentially - one of the most disturbing descriptions of a sound effect I read in a script was when the playwright described something as sounding "like a crash box filled with meat".)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:39 AM on July 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
This is one place where theater excels - sometimes our sound effects are prerecorded, but sometimes they are live, and there are all sorts of weird fun things you can do. I worked on a show once that was written in the mid-1800s or something, and we decided to really lean into how old-fashioned it was and staged it so it was as if you had stepped back in time and were actually watching the show in the mid-1800s. So it was super-fake sets and costumes and makeup, and a guy sitting in the corner doing all the sound effects in full view of the audience. And that got fun - there was some kind of loop of canvas on a hand crank you cranked for a wind sound effect, random pots and pans to bang for things, stuff like that.
One of my favorite tricks is something called a "crash box", where you take a big box and fill it about half full with pots, pans, broken dishes, broken glasses, etc. and then close it up, and then when you need a "crash" sound, someone just pushes it over or drops it. (Tangentially - one of the most disturbing descriptions of a sound effect I read in a script was when the playwright described something as sounding "like a crash box filled with meat".)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:39 AM on July 18, 2022 [5 favorites]
Sound effects were the most stressful part of stage managing! I was stage manager a couple of times for small local theater companies, and there were only a few sound effects so no reason to have someone dedicated to the job. So you couldn't zone out even though you had seen the show several times already, or you'd miss your cue. The one that was an operetta in Italian was particularly tough, since I didn't know the language and had to know the right lines phonetically.
posted by tavella at 12:49 PM on July 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by tavella at 12:49 PM on July 18, 2022 [3 favorites]
I was trying to look up if there was a special term for the pianists who played accompaniment in the silent film era.
Haven't found it yet, but I was reminded of the existence of the Photoplayer, a combination player piano, pipe organ, and sound effects cabinet designed for that purpose.
You've heard of organists 'pulling out all the stops'? Here's Joe, with literally 'all the bells and whistles'.
posted by bartleby at 2:14 PM on July 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
Haven't found it yet, but I was reminded of the existence of the Photoplayer, a combination player piano, pipe organ, and sound effects cabinet designed for that purpose.
You've heard of organists 'pulling out all the stops'? Here's Joe, with literally 'all the bells and whistles'.
posted by bartleby at 2:14 PM on July 18, 2022 [1 favorite]
"Famously, Spike once filled his socks with custard in the BBC canteen and swung them at some plywood to get the required squelching sound."
When looking for the masters of sound, always give Spike Milligan a glance.
posted by delfin at 2:49 PM on July 18, 2022
When looking for the masters of sound, always give Spike Milligan a glance.
posted by delfin at 2:49 PM on July 18, 2022
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Disney left these less-popular characters out of Snow White.
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:36 PM on July 15, 2022 [22 favorites]