1. Experimental Jet Set 2. all the other ones

July 16, 2022 8:01 AM

It's been almost eleven years since the band known as Sonic Youth officially disbanded, over forty since they released their first record, the EP known as Sonic Youth. So it's probably as good a time as any to rank the albums.

A few more:

SPIN
Far Out Magazine
Diffuser
Best Ever Albums
Return Of Rock

Last week we did Billy
I first heard their song Kool Thing in Guitar Hero 3
I don't think anyone gives a shit so I'm just gonna move on

BONUS TRACKS:

Lee Ranaldo on how drug-taking and the Grateful Dead inspired Sonic Youth

Sonic Youth - Death Valley '69 Live @ Mojave Desert 05.01.1985

Sonic Youth - "Silver Rocket" (Live) - Night Music Program - 1989

Sonic Youth's Daydream Nation (in 5 Minutes)

Composer Reacts to Sonic Youth - Teen Age Riot

First listen to Sonic Youth - Silver Rocket

Sonic Youth albums portrayed by Spongebob

posted by philip-random (58 comments total)

SISTER

My brother gave me a tape copy when I was 16. Loved it.

Catholic Block! Schizophrenia! All the songs.
posted by Zumbador at 8:07 AM on July 16, 2022 [8 favorites]

Jet Set has no Lee songs on it, in an era where the Lee songs were the best songs on any album, so it can’t be the best. I always rank it as one of the worst.
posted by heurtebise at 8:28 AM on July 16, 2022 [6 favorites]

I dunno if they ever recorded a version of Schizophrenia as good as the live version. In that, they were like the Dead, better live.

Diamond Sea was still good, although they had mellowed out by that point
posted by eustatic at 8:30 AM on July 16, 2022

Interesting. RateYourMusic goes with the obviously correct 1) Daydream 2) Sister 3) Evol, but StereoGum goes with the actually correct 1) Sister 2) Evol 3) Daydream
posted by sjswitzer at 8:44 AM on July 16, 2022 [8 favorites]

Ahh, Sonic Youth was one of the first live shows I saw as a teenager, back in 1995. Baby's first mosh pit! Also Ween opened for them as a surprise guest, which was amazing.
posted by ananci at 9:00 AM on July 16, 2022 [4 favorites]

I always liked Murray Street. It's like they stayed up all night listening to Marquee Moon, practised for a few weeks, then banged it out.
posted by kersplunk at 9:21 AM on July 16, 2022 [4 favorites]

I feel like a lot of these folks are underrating Bad Moon Rising and Confusion is Sex.
posted by box at 9:23 AM on July 16, 2022 [6 favorites]

That first EP is burned into my teenage soul, particularly She is Not Alone. I wore out my cassette copy. It's an unusual Sonic Youth release, much more instrumental and mellow with very little of the punk edge that defines their sound. I really liked it.

Also a frustrating album to like because for the longest time there was no good digital release. Some issue with their first label (Neutral) maybe, or maybe just because it wasn't a full LP. That's fixed now.

I don't listen to Sonic Youth often but every time I do I'm reminded they fucking rock. Oddly I never listen to Daydream Nation; that's the consensus "best album" but it never really grabbed me.
posted by Nelson at 9:40 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

I think Daydream Nation is probably the objectively best but A Thousand Leaves has always been my favorite.
posted by potrzebie at 10:18 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

Because it shouldn’t get lost in nostalgic cuddle puddle: Thurston Moore is the reason Sonic Youth broke up. Full stop. And I don’t think he gets enough shit about it from SY fans.
posted by badbobbycase at 10:38 AM on July 16, 2022 [21 favorites]

the band was around for almost thirty years, released 15 studio albums, seven extended plays, three compilation albums, seven video releases, 21 singles, 46 music videos, ten releases in the Sonic Youth Recordings series, eight official bootlegs, and contributions to 16 soundtracks and other compilations ... none of it what I'd dismiss as awful, uninspired or a cash grab.

I'm not inclined to give anyone shit for anything.
posted by philip-random at 11:15 AM on July 16, 2022 [7 favorites]

Great title! I always thought Experimental Jet Set was underrated but I’m not the biggest SY listener, so maybe the quiet, jagged, tuneful LP is never going to score high with fans. One of those records to listen to after checking preconceived notions at the door.
posted by saintjoe at 11:27 AM on July 16, 2022

awful, uninspired or a cash grab

'I Love You Mary Jane' isn't awful, but in 2022 I don't know if I can cosign the other two.

(Also Thurston 'I’m in a really romantic place with Eva; we’ve kinda been a couple for close to six years. A lot of those years nobody was very aware of it except us' (and 'I find it really strange that I get demonized for the breakup of Sonic Youth') Moore is awful.)
posted by box at 11:54 AM on July 16, 2022 [5 favorites]

I tuned out after 'Dirty', but 'Murray Street' is a really great album.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 11:59 AM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

With the caveat that I haven't heard the entire catalog yet (it's been a struggle to dive into the post-"Washing Machine" albums) here is my Top 10

1. Goo (yes, Goo, I don't care) 2. Daydream Nation 3. Dirty 4. Washing Machine 5. Sister 6. Goodbye 20th Century 7. Experimental Jet Set 8. Murray Street 9. EVOL 10. In/Out/In
posted by HunterFelt at 12:12 PM on July 16, 2022 [4 favorites]

Sister #1 is obvious. It is brilliant and also a great rock album listen; it's a rare year I don't play it through at least once. Daydream Nation is brilliant but a bit of chore to listen. Played it maybe twice when it came out and maybe twice in the decades since.
posted by MattD at 12:19 PM on July 16, 2022

I absolutely disagree with all of this of course and would go Washing Machine, Evol, Daydream, Dirty, Jet Set, Goo, Sister, Murray.
posted by aspersioncast at 12:24 PM on July 16, 2022

1. Goo (yes, Goo, I don't care)

Any album with “Mote” is the best album in any list of albums
posted by ejs at 12:28 PM on July 16, 2022 [4 favorites]

Sister was my first, so it’s first. Goo ‘cause Tunic (+1 for Mote, and Chuck D). Then Dirty, Daydream and Jet Set. It a fan of Thurston’s behavior. All in on TeamKim post-SY, including Girl In a Band.
posted by grimley at 1:35 PM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

Sister is fantastic. Only possible way it could be improved is with another Lee song or two.

This list gave me my very own Philip K. Dick moment (appropriately) - reading through the last few entries, thinking "hey, this guy thinks like me", then scrolling down and seeing the author has the same name as me... very startling!
posted by equalpants at 3:33 PM on July 16, 2022 [2 favorites]

Fantastic post. I'm a person who doesn't really have a favorite band, but if I did, Sonic Youth is almost certainly a top five (maybe even top three) contender. General thoughts, the early 2000s stuff (Murray St, Sonic Nurse) I've always found to be a little underrated. And Thurston is a total horse's ass (even if I will quietly admit to liking some of his solo stuff). Team Kim etc, etc,

My own highly subjective Top 5 SY studio album ranking:

Sister
Daydream
Evol
Goo
Murray/Thousand Leaves (tie)
posted by thivaia at 3:40 PM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

I like SY okay but have a special fondness for Ciccone Youth.
posted by ovvl at 3:45 PM on July 16, 2022 [10 favorites]

Lee Renaldo's post SY output is solid and worth the time to listen.

Also let's hear a little love for Steve Shelley! Give the drummer s0m3!

Just put my Dirty LP on, thanks for the thread
posted by djseafood at 4:02 PM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

I know SST was a terrible record label for many reasons

Jim Ruland's Corporate Rock Sucks: The Rise and Fall of SST Records lays out almost all of them.
posted by box at 4:15 PM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

I love Sonic Youth. I have an intense memory of seeing them outside in the rain at a show in Detroit, with Kim screaming 'Brother James' into the mic like a True Rock Goddess.

First place is a Three-way tie for their 80's trilogy of EVOL, Sister, and Daydream Nation.

Second place is the MTV albums: Goo, Dirty, and Washing Machine, when all of a sudden 'alternative music' was big and a band as weird as Sonic Youth(!) could headline festivals.

I also like Ciccone Youth, which defiantly strides that fine line between stupid and clever described in Spinal Tap.

The early stuff has some amazing moments - Expressway to Yr Skull, Death Valley '69...

I've always been team Lee, and wanted more of his songs on their albums. If you like him, and the Grateful Dead, check out this cover of Playing in the Band, with Tunde Adibimpe.
posted by chbrooks at 4:43 PM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

Lolapalooza 1995. There was a lot of backstage drama involving Courtney Love, who reportedly felt she should have been the headliner and demanded VIP treatment. Last two acts: Hole and Sonic Youth. I don't remember too much about the Hole set except a bunch of teenage girls in the audience wearing tiaras and that there was a powerful fan on stage blowing Courtney's hair back furiously. After Hole's set, a lot of the younger crowd left and we could scooch up closer to the stage. Sonic Youth came on and played the opening chords to Expressway to Yr Skull and Stephen Malkmus came on stage and sang, "We're gonna kill the California girls..." like they meant it.
posted by sjswitzer at 4:47 PM on July 16, 2022 [4 favorites]

No love here for Bad Moon Rising? I agree about Sister, Evol, DN, and Goo being killer, but these days I find myself reaching for Bad Moon most often.

Obligatory middle-aged punk sentimental journey: Sonic Youth, Swans, and Live Skull at CB’s in…1986?! I remember it like it was yesterday, kids. We had to walk uphill both ways!
posted by scratch at 5:13 PM on July 16, 2022 [7 favorites]

EVOL is # 1 because 'Tom Violence' is on it and any album that has 'Tom Violence' on it is the best album. I mean pick the song that you hate the most ever the one that is like fingernails on chalkboard for you and an album with that song 14 times in a row with 'Tom Violence' at the end is still the best album ever.

Also this is where I drop in the random tidbit that Richard Edson (a) played drums on the first Sonic Youth EP (1982); (b) played John Lurie's friend Eddie in Jim Jarmusch's Stranger Than Paradise (1984) and (c) played John Turturro's younger brother Vito in Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing (1989), meaning he is the quintessence of the 1980s downtown New York arts/music/film scene.
posted by googly at 5:53 PM on July 16, 2022 [6 favorites]

I would pick Shadow of a Doubt slightly over Tom Violence, but that's still on Evol.

I may have to revise my "actually" list to 1) Evol, 2) Sister, 3) Daydream. Damn.

(Also, a pox on you for reminding me of Jarmusch because I can't find Ghost Dog streaming anywhere and I really need to.)
posted by sjswitzer at 6:17 PM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

I never got the appeal of Sonic Youth, but I am going to give them another try, after 25 or so years. Lots of my friends back in the 90s were really into them. The older I get the more I realize that it's so worth it to keep seeking out music and especially revisiting bands that I might not have been into at the time. I often strike gold!

It may be telling that the one SY album I had at that time was Experimental Jet Set. I didn't know it was considered to be a lesser SY album. So I'll check out the top three albums on this list at the very least.
posted by zardoz at 7:07 PM on July 16, 2022 [3 favorites]

Great title! I always thought Experimental Jet Set was underrated but

it's not actually my #1. It just made me laugh when I read the reddit link and that was the first comment. Driving home the point that Sonic Youth spoke to many people in many ways over an improbably long career. Lots of oldies bands still kicking around out there but I can't think of a single one that has stayed relevant, which I think is the case for Sonic Youth. Even an album like NYC Ghosts & Flowers, considered by many at the time to be a serious misstep (some anyway) doesn't sound out of place (or time) to my ears now.

So what is my #1?

I'd be lying if I didn't say Daydream Nation, which I was there for when it was new. I'd been aware of Sonic Youth as far back as Halloween but didn't really pay proper attention until I caught them live at the tail end of the Sister tour. I didn't know much of the material but holy hell did they blow me away! Epiphany inducing stuff. So when Daydream showed up, I was ready for it, and then I caught a lingering flu bug, so I spent of a period of weeks in December 1988 laying low with my head between the speakers. It was one of those months where it never seemed to stop raining which, combined with the illness and the overall gloom of the pending solstice put me into a grim place indeed ... except I had this double album of fierce and expansive wonder to keep coming back to.
posted by philip-random at 7:20 PM on July 16, 2022 [2 favorites]

I rented Daydream on CD from the local library (along with Dead Letter Office and some Blue Note records.) It was an acquired taste over several listens. Kinda like Slanted and Enchanted. But it expanded my musical world.

"Reena" and "Incenerate" kick ass too.
posted by credulous at 10:30 PM on July 16, 2022 [1 favorite]

Somehow I need to drag Herman Melville into this. Whenever things in normieland got too much for him, he set out to sea to escape it all. In his landlocked fiction, he had Bartleby, who "would prefer not" and, crucially, Pierre, who would risk everything, his family, all cultural mores, his very sanity, to pursue his (problematic) passion.

Which brings me to the very odd film Pola X, based on Pierre; or, The Ambiguities. Somewhere in the middle of the film there's a Glenn Brankaesque thrum of guitars making a raucous noise and contributors to that scene actually included Sonic Youth and Bill Callahan. (I would not recommend that novel or film to anyone who has or wants to maintain their sanity, but they are actually good.)

They even had a song "Moby-Dik" on the Ciccone Youth album.

There is a certain Mellvillian defiance of *all this* that has always been at the core of Sonic Youth's music. They set out to sea musically. And, in terms of conforming to accepted musical conventions, they would prefer not. And if their choices didn't make sense to their critics or fans, they went where they felt they needed to go.

Very like Melville, they pursued their passions where they lead and regardless of criticism and consequences. Herman Melville would approve and would be jealous of their success in their lifetimes.
posted by sjswitzer at 11:13 PM on July 16, 2022 [5 favorites]

Nobody will ever claim it as their #1 but Rather Ripped is a fucking great record.
posted by Dokterrock at 11:34 PM on July 16, 2022 [4 favorites]

I once sat backstage with Sonic Youth while they got ripped and Kim swore with increasing intensity that we'd met before (we had not and the assurance of her conviction otherwise was unsettling), all of which is why Daydream Nation tops my own personal list.
posted by jscalzi at 1:48 AM on July 17, 2022 [8 favorites]

From the albums I know my list goes Sister, Daydream, Bad Moon, Goo, Dirty, Evol, Confusion. But this thread convinced me I should give the later albums a listen too.
posted by fregoli at 2:46 AM on July 17, 2022

memory hole 1: I first encountered the "Idea of Sonic Youth" on a full page ad for Daydream Nation in Thrasher Magazine. the "Idea" matched the album in my mind when I first heard it.

memory hole 2: The first time I saw SY live was Oct 16, 1992 Sonic Youth / Boredoms - Houston Gym, Buffalo State College. where the Boredoms opened for them and BLEW EVERYONES MIND before SY came on and played what seemed like every song they ever recorded ever.
posted by djseafood at 9:26 AM on July 17, 2022 [2 favorites]

I love the memories of Sonic Youth shows and albums coming up in this thread. Thanks, everyone, for sharing!

My train of thought starts with thinking that Goo is their best album, because it has Kool Thing and that song figures in a delightful scene in the film Simple Men, and it has the amazing and oft-imitated Raymond Pettibon cover, and it starts with “Dirty Boots”, and then I realize that is only one of their many very excellent albums. I am also a fan of the SYR series of records. And Thousand Leaves and Rather Ripped are especially poignant and represent a time of great change in NYC. What a wonderful gift this band has been to us.
posted by lasagnaboy at 11:16 AM on July 17, 2022 [2 favorites]

Lolapalooza 1995. There was a lot of backstage drama involving Courtney Love, who reportedly felt she should have been the headliner and demanded VIP treatment. Last two acts: Hole and Sonic Youth.

When Lollapalooza hit Denver that year, Courtney Love definitely was foul to the audience. I am not exaggerating when I say that between every single song she yelled at the audience to get off their ass and she also smoked a cigarette. between every. single. song.

My feelings about Courtney Love (not Hole... I remember Mellisa Auf Der Mar to be a pretty solid Bassist) went from indifferent to absolutely negative since she treated the audience so negatively.

Then Sonic Youth came on. The only thing I remember is Lee Ranaldo having his guitar switched out mid-song on Diamond Sea and not missing a beat. I'm assuming it was because the second guitar was tuned differently?

Okay, I lied. The other thing I remembered was you could see probably at least a dozen guitars on the wings of the stage. All of which got played at some point.

My top three are:

1. Daydream Nation

Let's talk in 5 years after you have absorbed that.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 2:46 PM on July 17, 2022 [3 favorites]

Related? (paywall free)

(I have zero memory of TJL playing palooza, which is odd because they are definitely one of my favorite live bands)
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 3:14 PM on July 17, 2022 [1 favorite]

I rented Daydream on CD from the local library

Sorry to librarians for forgetting the word "borrowed" :^P
posted by credulous at 4:11 PM on July 17, 2022 [3 favorites]

Sonic Youth's in my cooler...

Also I just realized that the writers of that episode chose Smashing Pumpkins for their nihilist punching bag, and Sonic Youth is just ... like, literally sitting right there ...
posted by credulous at 4:13 PM on July 17, 2022

Sorry to librarians for forgetting the word “borrowed”

It’s okay, we get that a lot.
posted by box at 5:37 PM on July 17, 2022 [2 favorites]

at least a dozen guitars on the wings of the stage. All of which got played at some point.

By contrast, I saw Spoon at a festival and the keyboardist carefully tuned a guitar and put it on a stand nearby, prominently at the front of the stage, as the band was setting up. That guitar was never played during the entire set. (It occurred to me that it might have been a backup guitar for Britt, but don't they usually have techs for that? Anyway, it was very puzzling at the time and remains so.)
posted by sjswitzer at 6:28 PM on July 17, 2022 [1 favorite]

there was a powerful fan on stage blowing Courtney's hair back furiously

Like, he had some sort of super-power, or just really strong lungs like the big bad wolf?
posted by Saxon Kane at 9:33 PM on July 17, 2022 [2 favorites]

Washing Machine was my first SY album- I was a precocious 10 year old in the mid-90s who wanted to know all the music that other kids' much cooler, older siblings were listening to. So I ordered it from the Columbia Record Club - lol - and never looked back. My love for atonality (and SY) was born.

I've listened to everything that came before Rather Ripped, but stopped there. Not for any real reason, although I think reading Kim Gordon's memoir helped me take Thurston (and the band in general) off of a pedestal.
posted by nightrecordings at 5:51 AM on July 18, 2022

I love Sonic Youth and they were in many ways the soundtrack to my teenage years having first seen them in ‘84 when they were touring the stuff from EP. Have subsequently and luckily seen them live maybe a dozen or so times over the years and they were always amazing. The band owes nobody anything so I wish people would stay out of their personal lives.
posted by misterpatrick at 8:14 AM on July 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

I know I've listened to all of these albums at some point or another, but the only album I've listened to regularly in the last 15 years is Daydream Nation.
posted by schyler523 at 9:39 AM on July 18, 2022

That mid 80s progression from Bad Moon Rising to EVOL to Sister to Daydream Nation (and then the Whitey Album as a nice sorbet for dessert). THAT'S Sonic Life.

Based on the way the next eagerly-anticipated album would exceed my already high expectations, it's those four in reverse order. Then the MTV era victory laps.
posted by whuppy at 10:57 AM on July 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

I'll tell ya something that rubbed me the wrong way a couple weeks ago. Kim headlined the Mosswood Meltdown's Saturday bill and didn't even introduce her band.
posted by whuppy at 11:01 AM on July 18, 2022

Nobody but me likes Jet Set so I guess it was nice of them to make album just for me.
Stupid title though.
posted by nickzoic at 5:48 PM on July 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

I like Jet Set a lot (and hadn't realized it had such a low reputation among most fans). Washing Machine is the one album I never really clicked with (such that, I'm realizing now, I even skipped it entirely when I ripped all my CDs to iTunes, way back when).
posted by nobody at 6:04 PM on July 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

(Wait, missed my chance to phrase all that as a "nobody" pun, given nickzoic's setup.)
posted by nobody at 6:06 PM on July 18, 2022

You see? Nobody understands me.


FTFY :-)
posted by nickzoic at 6:10 PM on July 18, 2022 [2 favorites]

Stupid title though.

IIRC, it was from a negative review, in which the reviewer gave those titles to each member of the band. The pictures on the album cover match up to the insulted person.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 8:07 AM on July 19, 2022 [1 favorite]

I like Jet Set a lot (and hadn't realized it had such a low reputation among most fans).

My feeling on Jet Set is that while it doesn't exactly knock the world off its axis as an entire album, it has some of the very best tracks Sonic Youth ever laid down.

Bull in the Heather
Tokyo Eye
Androgynous Mind

to name three. All less than four minutes long and thus getting to the point. In fact, there's only two tracks on the album longer than four minutes (and both of those clock in at less than five) which speaks to me of a band wanting to pull back the reins somewhat, back to basics, I guess.

They did (to my ears anyway) have a knack for not overstaying their welcome in any realm. Goo was not Daydream Part 2. Experimental Jet Set was not an extrapolation of the shiny commercial possibilities explored on Dirty. Washing Machine was bigger, wider, magnitudes more expansive than Jet Set (and almost twenty minutes longer).

You don't stick around as long as they did by playing to expectations.
posted by philip-random at 8:36 AM on July 19, 2022 [2 favorites]

I'm way late to this thread, but I can never understand the lack of love for "Youth Against Fascism". Is it just too obvious?
posted by jjderooy at 6:17 PM on July 19, 2022 [3 favorites]

Is it just too obvious?

Pretty sure that’s it. It’s a banger.
posted by sjswitzer at 7:19 PM on July 19, 2022