All The Live Long Days
December 1, 2022 7:13 AM Subscribe
Why The Railroads Refuse To Give Their Workers Paid Leave by Eric Levitz at NYMag. Archive.org link.
Why Congress is intervening in a labor dispute between railway companies and freight workers from PBS Newshour.
This wikipedia link on the Railway Labor Act of 1926 gives some information on how collective bargaining for workers in the railroad and airline industries differ from workers in sectors governed by the National Labor Relations Act of 1935.
The House has passed a bill that would force the unions to accept a contract negotiated in September with the help of the White House. A separate amendment was passed by a narrower vote that would add 7 days of paid sick leave to the contract. It's unclear if the Senate will pass the bill, or the amendment, with Senators Bernie Sanders, John Hickenlooper and Marco Rubio all expressing concerns with imposing a contract on the workers that they have rejected.
4 out of 12 of the relevant union memberships have rejected this contract, and the other 8 unions would respect the picket line. If a deal is not reached by December 9th, the strike would begin, barring Congressional action.
The last time Congress intervened in a railway labor dispute, Joe Biden was one of only six senators to vote against the action.
The Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employees Division of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters is only one of the unions urging against forcing the workers to accept these terms.
Paid sick leave in the United States varies considerably by industry, location and income level, and the United States and South Korea are the only 2 countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (PDF link) which do not guarantee some form of sick leave on the national statutory level.
Why Congress is intervening in a labor dispute between railway companies and freight workers from PBS Newshour.
This wikipedia link on the Railway Labor Act of 1926 gives some information on how collective bargaining for workers in the railroad and airline industries differ from workers in sectors governed by the National Labor Relations Act of 1935.
The House has passed a bill that would force the unions to accept a contract negotiated in September with the help of the White House. A separate amendment was passed by a narrower vote that would add 7 days of paid sick leave to the contract. It's unclear if the Senate will pass the bill, or the amendment, with Senators Bernie Sanders, John Hickenlooper and Marco Rubio all expressing concerns with imposing a contract on the workers that they have rejected.
4 out of 12 of the relevant union memberships have rejected this contract, and the other 8 unions would respect the picket line. If a deal is not reached by December 9th, the strike would begin, barring Congressional action.
The last time Congress intervened in a railway labor dispute, Joe Biden was one of only six senators to vote against the action.
The Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employees Division of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters is only one of the unions urging against forcing the workers to accept these terms.
Paid sick leave in the United States varies considerably by industry, location and income level, and the United States and South Korea are the only 2 countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (PDF link) which do not guarantee some form of sick leave on the national statutory level.
I can pretty much guarantee Rubio doesn't give a single shit about the workers or the contract.
posted by aramaic at 7:29 AM on December 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 7:29 AM on December 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
Seems like the economy as a whole would benefit more from a transportation system that is more robust/anti-fragile than from a more "efficient" rail network that would come crashing down at the suggestion of a paltry number of sick days.
posted by fogovonslack at 7:35 AM on December 1, 2022 [38 favorites]
posted by fogovonslack at 7:35 AM on December 1, 2022 [38 favorites]
Jesus Christ, How does Ted fucking Cruz have a better read on this than Biden??
posted by jedicus at 7:35 AM on December 1, 2022 [28 favorites]
"Congress has stepped in and said, we’re picking the winners, we’re picking the losers — and by the way, we’ve decided the management’s the winners and the workers are the losers," Cruz said Wednesday on an episode of his podcast. "That’s what (President Joe) Biden is doing — Biden is screwing the union workers."To be clear, I don't think Cruz gives a damn about the workers any more than Rubio does. Cruz doesn't support adding paid sick leave to the bill, for example, and if a strike happens I'm sure he'll happily shift to blaming Biden for the economic fallout. But this seems like a big political fuckup by Democrats after a much better than expected midterm election and in a time when approval of unions is at a ~57 year high.
posted by jedicus at 7:35 AM on December 1, 2022 [28 favorites]
Just mandate that all employers have to provide sick days to all employees/contractors. Problem solved.
We waste so much time, effort, and resources having these petty little squabbles while trying to thread the political needle between 'doing something' and 'doing nothing'.
Just do something already.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:42 AM on December 1, 2022 [31 favorites]
We waste so much time, effort, and resources having these petty little squabbles while trying to thread the political needle between 'doing something' and 'doing nothing'.
Just do something already.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:42 AM on December 1, 2022 [31 favorites]
Jesus Christ, How does Ted fucking Cruz have a better read on this than Biden??
That's basically exactly what I said in the car yesterday when a clip of Josh Hawley came on the radio talking about how workers need sick time. If these insurrectionist fuckers have gained the high ground over you on pro-worker sentiment that is serious political malpractice. Last update I heard, word from the White House was that they do not think Congress can pass the sick leave bill. That's what I call LEADERSHIP!!!
Edit: I should say, SEEM like they have gained the high ground. I don't actually believe any of the Republicans care at all about workers.
posted by Emmy Rae at 7:46 AM on December 1, 2022 [22 favorites]
That's basically exactly what I said in the car yesterday when a clip of Josh Hawley came on the radio talking about how workers need sick time. If these insurrectionist fuckers have gained the high ground over you on pro-worker sentiment that is serious political malpractice. Last update I heard, word from the White House was that they do not think Congress can pass the sick leave bill. That's what I call LEADERSHIP!!!
Edit: I should say, SEEM like they have gained the high ground. I don't actually believe any of the Republicans care at all about workers.
posted by Emmy Rae at 7:46 AM on December 1, 2022 [22 favorites]
At least with the student debt forgiveness the administration did the right thing and extended the moratorium while everything works it's way through the courts. I was genuinely surprised they did that--I was expecting everyone to just shrug their shoulders and say "sorry, we tried" as they always seem to do.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:50 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 7:50 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
Can someone here give me a quick recap of what the hell is up with Biden here? What's his side of the story (if any)? What possible justification could he have? Has he tried to make a case to the public or does he refuse to comment? (Apologies for not reading up on my own and asking to cheat off of y'all's homework, I have been avoiding the news for a while.)
posted by MiraK at 7:53 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by MiraK at 7:53 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
Can someone here give me a quick recap of what the hell is up with Biden here?
I would love to understand this as well.
posted by Emmy Rae at 7:54 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
I would love to understand this as well.
posted by Emmy Rae at 7:54 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
IIRC, the going theory with Biden trying to break the strike is that he doesn't want to have worse supply chain issues from that strike affecting holiday shopping.
posted by SansPoint at 7:58 AM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 7:58 AM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
Jesus Christ, How does Ted fucking Cruz have a better read on this than Biden??
I always wonder if dems actually realize when they pull stuff like this they set themselves up to be outflanked by republicans who like to cosplay giving a shit about workers, or if the party is well aware that this will happen but figure "meh fuck it we'll continue to sacrifice more of our working class support at the altar of *The Economy* and just take the hit?"
posted by windbox at 8:06 AM on December 1, 2022 [6 favorites]
I always wonder if dems actually realize when they pull stuff like this they set themselves up to be outflanked by republicans who like to cosplay giving a shit about workers, or if the party is well aware that this will happen but figure "meh fuck it we'll continue to sacrifice more of our working class support at the altar of *The Economy* and just take the hit?"
posted by windbox at 8:06 AM on December 1, 2022 [6 favorites]
If the White House came out in full force soon about a full week of sick pay and then mercilessly went after the Republicans calling for it if they don't vote for it, that would be some 4D chess.
But I'm pretty sure that's not the plan. This was probably just an idiotic own goal from the Biden admin.
posted by tclark at 8:09 AM on December 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
But I'm pretty sure that's not the plan. This was probably just an idiotic own goal from the Biden admin.
posted by tclark at 8:09 AM on December 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
I must be missing something, but if Congress can put a thumb on the scale during the bargaining process, then why not use this power to advocate for worker interests instead of management interests? Or at least both?
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:10 AM on December 1, 2022 [20 favorites]
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:10 AM on December 1, 2022 [20 favorites]
[Biden] doesn't want to have worse supply chain issues from that strike affecting holiday shopping.
Well, that seems kind of dumb.
Of course there will be some highly-desirable thing that more people want it than there are things available to buy. There always is.
Relentless advertising, planned obsolescence, consumption both competitive and conspicuous, businesses treating employees as a commodity to be exploited, of course there will be. It seems like it happens every year. See e.g. the PlayStation 5 (or, for those of you with longer memories, Tickle-Me Elmo and Cabbage Patch Kids). Calling it 'supply chain issues' is a lot more bloodless than talking about minimum staffing levels and denying sick days.
And of course Republicans will blame Biden for it, because they blame him for everything. They always do.
posted by box at 8:11 AM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
Well, that seems kind of dumb.
Of course there will be some highly-desirable thing that more people want it than there are things available to buy. There always is.
Relentless advertising, planned obsolescence, consumption both competitive and conspicuous, businesses treating employees as a commodity to be exploited, of course there will be. It seems like it happens every year. See e.g. the PlayStation 5 (or, for those of you with longer memories, Tickle-Me Elmo and Cabbage Patch Kids). Calling it 'supply chain issues' is a lot more bloodless than talking about minimum staffing levels and denying sick days.
And of course Republicans will blame Biden for it, because they blame him for everything. They always do.
posted by box at 8:11 AM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
The ridiculous thing about this is that sick leave is good for productivity (as well as being good for workers) - if 1 worker comes into work sick, and gets 10 other workers sick,
that's now 11 people who are not performing as well as they usually do, who may well make very dangerous and/or very costly mistakes at work and cost the organisation a lot more money than the sick leave would have.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 8:22 AM on December 1, 2022 [8 favorites]
that's now 11 people who are not performing as well as they usually do, who may well make very dangerous and/or very costly mistakes at work and cost the organisation a lot more money than the sick leave would have.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 8:22 AM on December 1, 2022 [8 favorites]
I must be missing something, but if Congress can put a thumb on the scale during the bargaining process, then why not use this power to advocate for worker interests instead of management interests? Or at least both?
I'm guessing management has a bigger lobbying budget.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:26 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm guessing management has a bigger lobbying budget.
P.S.R. is an operational strategy that aims to minimize the ratio between railroads’ operating costs and their revenues through various cost-cutting and (ostensibly) efficiency-increasing measures. The basic idea is to transport more freight using fewer workers and railcars.Payroll is always the first place management cuts to save money, and it's almost always a false economy.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:26 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
Every time I think about this issue the history buff inside my head reminds me the railroad employees and their unions in this country used to be so powerful that they got their own special Social Security Numbers and a better, more benefit-filled parallel government retirement system. Today's situation isn't "how it's always been," it's a direct result of who we elect and what they choose to focus their power on. We can go back to a country where everyone matters equally before the law, but it won't be easy. But it can be done.
posted by seasparrow at 8:26 AM on December 1, 2022 [16 favorites]
posted by seasparrow at 8:26 AM on December 1, 2022 [16 favorites]
“ … it's almost always a false economy.”
Fully agreed. Unfortunately they’re not even *thinking* of the economics of it, they’re thinking of the next quarterly report to Wall Street. American Capitalism: “Fuck what’s good in the long term, i gotta hit my numbers.”
posted by armoir from antproof case at 8:34 AM on December 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
Fully agreed. Unfortunately they’re not even *thinking* of the economics of it, they’re thinking of the next quarterly report to Wall Street. American Capitalism: “Fuck what’s good in the long term, i gotta hit my numbers.”
posted by armoir from antproof case at 8:34 AM on December 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
I don't understand the anger focused on Biden here. If Cruz and Hawley are so adamant about giving workers sick leave, I want to know what they're doing to convince 8 of their Republican colleagues to vote for the sick leave bill.
Biden is not wrong that a rail strike would be disastrous for an already struggling economy. And 8 of the 12 unions have accepted the agreement as is. I 100% believe that the workers should have more paid sick leave, but there are a lot of moving pieces here.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:36 AM on December 1, 2022 [12 favorites]
Biden is not wrong that a rail strike would be disastrous for an already struggling economy. And 8 of the 12 unions have accepted the agreement as is. I 100% believe that the workers should have more paid sick leave, but there are a lot of moving pieces here.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 8:36 AM on December 1, 2022 [12 favorites]
When we talk about supply chain issues in relation to the strike, I worry that we're lightly dismissing them as though these trains were just carrying Playstations and Christmas socks or something. Wouldn't the coal needed for power plants come on the trains too?
posted by mittens at 8:44 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by mittens at 8:44 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
So why not head off the strike by giving workers what they're asking for? Why is that not the least disruptive option here?
Is the cost of providing a basic human right really so enormous that it's preferable to risk the American economy by holding out on it?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:44 AM on December 1, 2022 [29 favorites]
Is the cost of providing a basic human right really so enormous that it's preferable to risk the American economy by holding out on it?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:44 AM on December 1, 2022 [29 favorites]
I don't understand the anger focused on Biden here.
If someone makes hay about being "the most pro-labor president", it's understandable to feel more angry about being betrayed on labor topics than someone who you expected to be a shitheel doing what you're pretty sure is an in-name-only political maneuver but at least sounds better for now.
If not giving rail workers sick leave would be disastrous for an already struggling economy, then why not put all of this pressure on management? It sounds like they're the ones in the way. To your point about convincing Republicans, why the focus on convincing labor to take a bad deal when they're not the ones blocking the topic?
posted by CrystalDave at 8:45 AM on December 1, 2022 [16 favorites]
If someone makes hay about being "the most pro-labor president", it's understandable to feel more angry about being betrayed on labor topics than someone who you expected to be a shitheel doing what you're pretty sure is an in-name-only political maneuver but at least sounds better for now.
If not giving rail workers sick leave would be disastrous for an already struggling economy, then why not put all of this pressure on management? It sounds like they're the ones in the way. To your point about convincing Republicans, why the focus on convincing labor to take a bad deal when they're not the ones blocking the topic?
posted by CrystalDave at 8:45 AM on December 1, 2022 [16 favorites]
Yeah, he's trying to forestall a massive market drop. It won't help - we hard-stopped the economy during Covid and have just been 'lalala'-ing since the end of it; Coyote's gotta look down at some point, regardless of the depth of the chasm he's over. He could've just said 'Y'know, this is going to happen, and when it does, with the way the workers feel right now, I'm going to be on the right side of the electorate: executive order for unemployment for all legitimate unions that strike." Fantasy, I know, but it would've bought him (or whoever wins the primary in 2024) a lot of good will. But, he didn't.
This AM, I stumbled into the kitchen for coffee and the SO said 'They're all striking with the rail workers - teachers, dockworkers, postal, the health service, everybody!'
I was stunned. Pouring my coffee I thought 'I never thought I'd see the day when Labor in the US would - wait'.
I said "Waitasecond - we don't have a healthcare sector union!" She looked at me and said "In the UK, dummy"
posted by eclectist at 8:45 AM on December 1, 2022 [10 favorites]
This AM, I stumbled into the kitchen for coffee and the SO said 'They're all striking with the rail workers - teachers, dockworkers, postal, the health service, everybody!'
I was stunned. Pouring my coffee I thought 'I never thought I'd see the day when Labor in the US would - wait'.
I said "Waitasecond - we don't have a healthcare sector union!" She looked at me and said "In the UK, dummy"
posted by eclectist at 8:45 AM on December 1, 2022 [10 favorites]
When we talk about supply chain issues in relation to the strike, I worry that we're lightly dismissing them as though these trains were just carrying Playstations and Christmas socks or something. Wouldn't the coal needed for power plants come on the trains too?
What is shipped by rail.
posted by JanetLand at 8:47 AM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
What is shipped by rail.
posted by JanetLand at 8:47 AM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
When we talk about supply chain issues in relation to the strike, I worry that we're lightly dismissing them as though these trains were just carrying Playstations and Christmas socks or something.
Personally, I take it very seriously but I recognize that management runs the same talking points whenever anyone strikes. Nurses in my state of Minnesota just authorized a 15,000 member strike to likely take place in December, and management is out with their take - how dare the nurses take advantage of the surge in respiratory illnesses and risk their patients' health to hold a strike! Similarly, how dare the railworkers take advantage of supply chain weakness and risk economic loss by threatening to strike!
The idea we are to accept is that their job is SO important, a strike is irresponsible and dangerous. Another way to frame it is that their job is SO important, management tomfoolery in the name of shareholder profits is irresponsible and dangerous. If the whole economy is on the line, seven measly days of sick time is a small price to pay. So why doesn't MANAGEMENT pay it?
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:58 AM on December 1, 2022 [51 favorites]
Personally, I take it very seriously but I recognize that management runs the same talking points whenever anyone strikes. Nurses in my state of Minnesota just authorized a 15,000 member strike to likely take place in December, and management is out with their take - how dare the nurses take advantage of the surge in respiratory illnesses and risk their patients' health to hold a strike! Similarly, how dare the railworkers take advantage of supply chain weakness and risk economic loss by threatening to strike!
The idea we are to accept is that their job is SO important, a strike is irresponsible and dangerous. Another way to frame it is that their job is SO important, management tomfoolery in the name of shareholder profits is irresponsible and dangerous. If the whole economy is on the line, seven measly days of sick time is a small price to pay. So why doesn't MANAGEMENT pay it?
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:58 AM on December 1, 2022 [51 favorites]
Congress and the Executive panicked, demonstrating that they can rapidly legislate and lobby on the issue of sick leave.
Twist them, grind them, spread the strike action to other transport sectors like trucking. Get national 7 day sick leave minimums, doc note requirements forbidden. Nothing came easy, kind, or pretty for labor. I don't need what I ordered, put the screws to these bastards.
posted by Slackermagee at 8:59 AM on December 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
Twist them, grind them, spread the strike action to other transport sectors like trucking. Get national 7 day sick leave minimums, doc note requirements forbidden. Nothing came easy, kind, or pretty for labor. I don't need what I ordered, put the screws to these bastards.
posted by Slackermagee at 8:59 AM on December 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
Railway mgmt has been really bad so siding with them is IMO not a good idea nor a good look.
I don't have the time to look up the charts, but rail was completely unable to take market share when trucking was backed up, and railway traffic during that time actually fell as a percentage of transit vs trucking, for reasons that had nothing to do with lack of trucking for last mile.
If I was Biden, I'd have hauled them in front of Congress, and would not be making concessions to them.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:00 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
I don't have the time to look up the charts, but rail was completely unable to take market share when trucking was backed up, and railway traffic during that time actually fell as a percentage of transit vs trucking, for reasons that had nothing to do with lack of trucking for last mile.
If I was Biden, I'd have hauled them in front of Congress, and would not be making concessions to them.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:00 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
Now I'm even more puzzled: so Biden's position is to break the strike in order to prevent massive supply chain issues and a market drop, but has anyone (any reporter, for example) asked him the most obvious question that people on this thread are asking, viz.,
> why not head off the strike by giving workers what they're asking for? Why is that not the least disruptive option here?
Has Biden truly not made any public statement to clarify this? If not, then maybe it all really is as transparently corrupt as it seems. Jesus.
posted by MiraK at 9:04 AM on December 1, 2022 [6 favorites]
> why not head off the strike by giving workers what they're asking for? Why is that not the least disruptive option here?
Has Biden truly not made any public statement to clarify this? If not, then maybe it all really is as transparently corrupt as it seems. Jesus.
posted by MiraK at 9:04 AM on December 1, 2022 [6 favorites]
It's true that a strike would be economically disastrous and it's also true that allowing that to dissuade a strike is unacceptable. The idea that we must allow rail workers to be abused in order to prevent the rail bosses (who have seen surging, record profits even as they've pared back staffing levels and forced ever-increasing and ever more abusive working hours and conditions onto rail workers) from blowing up the economy is a suicidal logic. Yes, it's going to be awful. But the alternative is a death spiral for working conditions across the board, not only for the Omelas child in question.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:04 AM on December 1, 2022 [25 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:04 AM on December 1, 2022 [25 favorites]
Nurses in my state of Minnesota just authorized a 15,000 member strike to likely take place in December, and management is out with their take - how dare the nurses take advantage of the surge in respiratory illnesses and risk their patients' health to hold a strike!
Management could have dealt fairly in response when they did a planned end three day strike, but noooo now we all have to strike AGAIN because management doesn't BELIEVE WORKERS when workers say "I bet you we can last longer without you than you can last without us." I'm seeing this kind of managerial response to various forms of unionization and labor agitation in several different friends' workplaces right now, as if the discontent will go away if only management just grits its teeth and pretends real hard, and it's amazing to me how little managerial folks are paying attention.
Anyway, I clearly need to go figure out who in government to agitate about this and where. Congress and the executive branch have both intervened in labor disputes in the past to squash worked resentment. Often the result has been increases in violence or drawn out negotiations that cause more economic unrest, not less. It turns out that the root causes of conflict don't stop building up pressure when you slap a band aid over your steam vents because you can't see through all the steam, and slapping more and more layers of duct tape over the steam is not a great long or even medium term solution.
posted by sciatrix at 9:07 AM on December 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
Management could have dealt fairly in response when they did a planned end three day strike, but noooo now we all have to strike AGAIN because management doesn't BELIEVE WORKERS when workers say "I bet you we can last longer without you than you can last without us." I'm seeing this kind of managerial response to various forms of unionization and labor agitation in several different friends' workplaces right now, as if the discontent will go away if only management just grits its teeth and pretends real hard, and it's amazing to me how little managerial folks are paying attention.
Anyway, I clearly need to go figure out who in government to agitate about this and where. Congress and the executive branch have both intervened in labor disputes in the past to squash worked resentment. Often the result has been increases in violence or drawn out negotiations that cause more economic unrest, not less. It turns out that the root causes of conflict don't stop building up pressure when you slap a band aid over your steam vents because you can't see through all the steam, and slapping more and more layers of duct tape over the steam is not a great long or even medium term solution.
posted by sciatrix at 9:07 AM on December 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
Okay so I caved and actually read about it and it seems there's two separate pieces of legislation happening: one to break up the strike which doesn't include provisions for unpaid sick leave that rail workers have been demanding, and a separate measure which among other things gives rail workers the right to seven paid sick days. The need for a separate piece of legislation seems to arise from the fact that renegotiating the existing agreement would cause delays and guarantee a shutdown.
When I went looking for articles to read, I specifically sought out any statements or arguments AOC had made about the matter because she's basically the only politician I trust these days. It turns out that AOC voted in favor of BOTH those pieces of legislation, i.e. voted in favor of breaking the strike via use of congressional authority without guaranteeing any sick leave, and voted in favor of the second measure which provides seven paid sick days.
Here's more information on what the reasoning of the White House is right now, which AOC endorses:
IMO that does not sound like Biden is corrupt and/or is screwing over labor. However if someone has more information and context to say otherwise (or even just to add to the discussion in any way) I'd really really like to understand more.
posted by MiraK at 9:22 AM on December 1, 2022 [25 favorites]
When I went looking for articles to read, I specifically sought out any statements or arguments AOC had made about the matter because she's basically the only politician I trust these days. It turns out that AOC voted in favor of BOTH those pieces of legislation, i.e. voted in favor of breaking the strike via use of congressional authority without guaranteeing any sick leave, and voted in favor of the second measure which provides seven paid sick days.
Here's more information on what the reasoning of the White House is right now, which AOC endorses:
The White House helped negotiate a tentative agreement in September that entailed higher wages and a $5,000 bonus for workers, temporarily preventing a massive railroad strike in what was hailed as a major win for the Biden administration.tl;dr: The existing agreement which was reached with approval from rail company management cannot now be renegotiated without risking catastrophic stoppages because renegotiating WOULD be delayed past the Dec 9 deadline because of rail company management (who are required signatories of this particular agreement and cannot be bypassed). So the Biden administration and Congress have found a workaround in the form of a separate legislative measure to give exactly what the strikers are asking for without the need for any approval or agreement from rail company management, dictating by government decree that rail companies should pony up.
Four of the 12 involved unions ultimately rejected the deal and a strike was put back on the table if an agreement can not be reached by December 9, CBS reported. Biden called on Congress Monday to intervene and immediately pass legislation to adopt the September agreement without any modifications in order to avoid a strike.
This would override the requirement for all 12 unions to ratify the new contracts before the approaching December 9 deadline.
Biden said in a statement Monday that he was "reluctant to override the ratification procedures and the views of those who voted against the agreement," but stressed that he believes it was necessary for Congress to use its authority to adopt the deal to avoid an economic shutdown he said could potentially hurt millions of other people and families.
"Some in Congress want to modify the deal to either improve it for labor or for management," Biden said. "However well-intentioned, any changes would risk delay and a debilitating shutdown. The agreement was reached in good faith by both sides."
"Congress has the power to adopt the agreement and prevent a shutdown," the statement concluded. "It should set aside politics and partisan division and deliver for the American people. Congress should get this bill to my desk well in advance of December 9th so we can avoid disruption."
Biden held a meeting Tuesday with congressional leaders, at the start of which he expressed the need for Congress to act to prevent a rail strike and warned that the U.S. economy was at risk. After that meeting, several of those congressional leaders voiced their support for quickly passing the legislation.
IMO that does not sound like Biden is corrupt and/or is screwing over labor. However if someone has more information and context to say otherwise (or even just to add to the discussion in any way) I'd really really like to understand more.
posted by MiraK at 9:22 AM on December 1, 2022 [25 favorites]
Here's Biden's official statement.
posted by Gerald Bostock at 9:26 AM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Gerald Bostock at 9:26 AM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
So why not head off the strike by giving workers what they're asking for? Why is that not the least disruptive option here?
NB this is not my personal opinion, but I've known enough conservatives and anti-unionists to confidently guess that it's theirs: giving workers what they're asking for sets a precedent they don't want set. I mean, if you give them paid sick days today, tomorrow they'll turn around and want safer working conditions or something unreasonable like that. In their worldview, it's the same as negotiating with terrorists.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:27 AM on December 1, 2022 [13 favorites]
NB this is not my personal opinion, but I've known enough conservatives and anti-unionists to confidently guess that it's theirs: giving workers what they're asking for sets a precedent they don't want set. I mean, if you give them paid sick days today, tomorrow they'll turn around and want safer working conditions or something unreasonable like that. In their worldview, it's the same as negotiating with terrorists.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:27 AM on December 1, 2022 [13 favorites]
So why not head off the strike by giving workers what they're asking for? Why is that not the least disruptive option here?
How do you expect Biden to do that exactly? Congressional Democrats are trying to push through the additional sick leave bill, and they need at least 10 Republican votes in the Senate to pass it. Biden lacks the power to compel the Republicans to vote in favor or to get management to agree to the change, but at the same time recognizes that this is a difficult choice and wants to avoid the problems that would be caused by a strike.
The problem with these sorts of discussions is that some people act like these decisions are easy. Paid sick leave is a good thing so just give it to them. If management refuses, let the strike go forward and people will have to deal with it. But as people have said above, we're not just talking about Playstations. We're talking about food and medicine and raw materials necessary for keeping the economy going. There's a ton of cascading consequences of such a strike, including potential damage to public safety, loss of jobs, etc.
I'm not saying I necessarily agree with forcing the deal through. I'm just saying we shouldn't pretend like these are easy questions and that Democrats are just feckless weasels for not doing the "right thing."
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:31 AM on December 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
How do you expect Biden to do that exactly? Congressional Democrats are trying to push through the additional sick leave bill, and they need at least 10 Republican votes in the Senate to pass it. Biden lacks the power to compel the Republicans to vote in favor or to get management to agree to the change, but at the same time recognizes that this is a difficult choice and wants to avoid the problems that would be caused by a strike.
The problem with these sorts of discussions is that some people act like these decisions are easy. Paid sick leave is a good thing so just give it to them. If management refuses, let the strike go forward and people will have to deal with it. But as people have said above, we're not just talking about Playstations. We're talking about food and medicine and raw materials necessary for keeping the economy going. There's a ton of cascading consequences of such a strike, including potential damage to public safety, loss of jobs, etc.
I'm not saying I necessarily agree with forcing the deal through. I'm just saying we shouldn't pretend like these are easy questions and that Democrats are just feckless weasels for not doing the "right thing."
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:31 AM on December 1, 2022 [9 favorites]
The strikebreaking and the paid leave bills are separate so that Congress can pass the strikebreaking bill (which will pass) and congresspeople who want to express support for paid leave in a nonbinding way can vote for the paid leave bill (which will fail) without actually making that paid leave happen. It's a scam.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:33 AM on December 1, 2022 [19 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:33 AM on December 1, 2022 [19 favorites]
> congresspeople who want to express support for paid leave in a nonbinding way can vote for the paid leave bill (which will fail) without actually making that paid leave happen. It's a scam.
Yes this seems to be the case: however the important thing to note is that this is a scam perpetrated by Republicans alone, not Democrats and not Biden. Republicans are the only reason why the paid leave bill might fail. The Dems are all on board for it.
Similarly, the strikebreaker bill and paid leave bill's separation also comes directly from rail companies, not from Biden or from Democrats. Apparently there is no way for strikebreaker bill to be modified in any way before the Dec 9 deadline, so Biden's hands are tied here. The question that had me scratching my head was:
> why not head off the strike by giving workers what they're asking for? Why is that not the least disruptive option here?
and it turns out that is not one of the available options. The only available options are: allow the strike to happen, causing a catastrophic economic shutdown OR break up the strike. The Biden administration is choosing the second route and augmenting it with a separate bill to pass paid leave. IMO it is incorrect to call this an anti-labor stance on Biden's part or the Democrats' part - that's Murc's Law in action.
posted by MiraK at 9:42 AM on December 1, 2022 [11 favorites]
Yes this seems to be the case: however the important thing to note is that this is a scam perpetrated by Republicans alone, not Democrats and not Biden. Republicans are the only reason why the paid leave bill might fail. The Dems are all on board for it.
Similarly, the strikebreaker bill and paid leave bill's separation also comes directly from rail companies, not from Biden or from Democrats. Apparently there is no way for strikebreaker bill to be modified in any way before the Dec 9 deadline, so Biden's hands are tied here. The question that had me scratching my head was:
> why not head off the strike by giving workers what they're asking for? Why is that not the least disruptive option here?
and it turns out that is not one of the available options. The only available options are: allow the strike to happen, causing a catastrophic economic shutdown OR break up the strike. The Biden administration is choosing the second route and augmenting it with a separate bill to pass paid leave. IMO it is incorrect to call this an anti-labor stance on Biden's part or the Democrats' part - that's Murc's Law in action.
posted by MiraK at 9:42 AM on December 1, 2022 [11 favorites]
I specifically sought out any statements or arguments AOC had made about the matter because she's basically the only politician I trust these days.
While I also find her trustworthy, there are other Dems in Congress (I'm thinking of Jayapal, Pressley, Tlaib, and Omar, but Barbara Lee and Cori Bush probably have a place on that list as well, and let's see about Mary Peltola) I find equally so.
They may not always vote the way I'd prefer, but I don't think they're lying to me.
posted by box at 9:55 AM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
While I also find her trustworthy, there are other Dems in Congress (I'm thinking of Jayapal, Pressley, Tlaib, and Omar, but Barbara Lee and Cori Bush probably have a place on that list as well, and let's see about Mary Peltola) I find equally so.
They may not always vote the way I'd prefer, but I don't think they're lying to me.
posted by box at 9:55 AM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
> The only available options are: allow the strike to happen, causing a catastrophic economic shutdown OR break up the strike.
4 unions oppose this contract, but it's OK to force them to comply with it against their consent? If we can compel workers thus, why can't we compel management?
posted by splitpeasoup at 9:56 AM on December 1, 2022 [21 favorites]
4 unions oppose this contract, but it's OK to force them to comply with it against their consent? If we can compel workers thus, why can't we compel management?
posted by splitpeasoup at 9:56 AM on December 1, 2022 [21 favorites]
I'm not saying I necessarily agree with forcing the deal through. I'm just saying we shouldn't pretend like these are easy questions and that Democrats are just feckless weasels for not doing the "right thing."
The reason the Democratic Party won't let the 7 days hit a floor vote in the Senate is because they're going to be throwing half a dozen or so D senators under the bus because they're going to vote no and a few of them don't want the public notoriety that comes along with it.
Sanders is calling their bluff and saying he won't vote for anything until there's a roll call vote on 7 days of sick leave but who knows what ugly monster of a compromise "bipartisanship" can push through.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 9:57 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
The reason the Democratic Party won't let the 7 days hit a floor vote in the Senate is because they're going to be throwing half a dozen or so D senators under the bus because they're going to vote no and a few of them don't want the public notoriety that comes along with it.
Sanders is calling their bluff and saying he won't vote for anything until there's a roll call vote on 7 days of sick leave but who knows what ugly monster of a compromise "bipartisanship" can push through.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 9:57 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
> that's Murc's Law in action.
Murc's Law is very much alive and well among the MeFi commentariat, who, unlike AOC and other Congressional Democrats, have to eat the political consequences of a massive economic meltdown even though it's actually Republicans causing it.
> While I also find her trustworthy, there are other Dems in Congress (I'm thinking of Jayapal, Pressley, Tlaib, and Omar, but Barbara Lee and Cori Bush probably have a place on that list as well, and let's see about Mary Peltola) I find equally so.
Notably, Tlaib is the only one on this list who voted against passage of H. J. RES. 100.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:01 AM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
Murc's Law is very much alive and well among the MeFi commentariat, who, unlike AOC and other Congressional Democrats, have to eat the political consequences of a massive economic meltdown even though it's actually Republicans causing it.
> While I also find her trustworthy, there are other Dems in Congress (I'm thinking of Jayapal, Pressley, Tlaib, and Omar, but Barbara Lee and Cori Bush probably have a place on that list as well, and let's see about Mary Peltola) I find equally so.
Notably, Tlaib is the only one on this list who voted against passage of H. J. RES. 100.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:01 AM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yeah I want to hear how it’s somehow okay to force the unions to comply without the ratification of their members but not okay to force management to comply without their signatures. This seems like some bullshit.
Strike. Shut it all down. Burn it all. If we can’t maintain the economy without it resting on the backs of the workers then it deserves to fail.
posted by corb at 10:01 AM on December 1, 2022 [18 favorites]
Strike. Shut it all down. Burn it all. If we can’t maintain the economy without it resting on the backs of the workers then it deserves to fail.
posted by corb at 10:01 AM on December 1, 2022 [18 favorites]
> 4 unions oppose this contract, but it's OK to force them to comply with it against their consent? If we can compel workers thus, why can't we compel management?
It seems that the 4 unions who oppose the contract did so belatedly, *after* initially signing on. Or at least, signing on by proxy: the contract was ratified by representatives from both sides. If one-third of the rail companies had belatedly signaled their refusal to stick with the agreement after their own representatives signed the contract, the same thing would have happened to them.
(Or so the theory goes. I'm sure rail companies with their vast resources would have managed to get what they want in far sneakier ways than to create a big public ruckus that threatens to tank the US economy. Public ruckus and hostage-taking is sadly the language of the unheard, the less powerful. The strike is not labor's fault at all, but neither is it Biden's fault that he will take extraordinary measures to avoid extraordinary blows to the economy.)
posted by MiraK at 10:03 AM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
It seems that the 4 unions who oppose the contract did so belatedly, *after* initially signing on. Or at least, signing on by proxy: the contract was ratified by representatives from both sides. If one-third of the rail companies had belatedly signaled their refusal to stick with the agreement after their own representatives signed the contract, the same thing would have happened to them.
(Or so the theory goes. I'm sure rail companies with their vast resources would have managed to get what they want in far sneakier ways than to create a big public ruckus that threatens to tank the US economy. Public ruckus and hostage-taking is sadly the language of the unheard, the less powerful. The strike is not labor's fault at all, but neither is it Biden's fault that he will take extraordinary measures to avoid extraordinary blows to the economy.)
posted by MiraK at 10:03 AM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
I don't think it's fair to cite Murc's law while implicitly assuming that railroad workers are the only ones responsible for the strike and the economic catastrophe it would cause. Even with the legislative timeline restrictions, management could just make some promises in good faith that might avert the need for a strike while negotiations resume.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:03 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:03 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
If Republicans are responsible for the current situation because of their refusal to act, then so is management.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:05 AM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:05 AM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
Yo, former airline union member here. It's not representative democracy - my shop stewards negotiated the best deals they could, but that did not obligate me to vote for a contract. This is not the unions reneging on a deal.
(edited to remove offensive term for reneging, sorry)
posted by the primroses were over at 10:05 AM on December 1, 2022 [8 favorites]
(edited to remove offensive term for reneging, sorry)
posted by the primroses were over at 10:05 AM on December 1, 2022 [8 favorites]
For those who are asking, it IS possible to compel management to give paid sick leave, but only if we have the votes to pass a law compelling them to do so. That's the whole problem. As it is, getting the existing deal was a feat in itself.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:26 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:26 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
Why I don't get here is why the trains aren't scheduled. Surely at least some of the demand for freight can be predicted in advance?
posted by madcaptenor at 10:29 AM on December 1, 2022
posted by madcaptenor at 10:29 AM on December 1, 2022
> Yeah I want to hear how it’s somehow okay to force the unions to comply without the ratification of their members but not okay to force management to comply without their signatures. This seems like some bullshit.
Nothing about this situation is okay. Management is clearly in the wrong, and it would be wonderful to be living in a timeline where a legal remedy for forcing them to do the right thing were available and politically viable, but saying "burn it all down" gets a lot more MetaFilter favorites than it does to actually bring the sides together or give the workers the sick leave they deserve.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:34 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
Nothing about this situation is okay. Management is clearly in the wrong, and it would be wonderful to be living in a timeline where a legal remedy for forcing them to do the right thing were available and politically viable, but saying "burn it all down" gets a lot more MetaFilter favorites than it does to actually bring the sides together or give the workers the sick leave they deserve.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:34 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
Why I don't get here is why the trains aren't scheduled. Surely at least some of the demand for freight can be predicted in advance?
Keeping staff on call costs money and could cut into the record profits of rent seeking companies.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 10:37 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
Keeping staff on call costs money and could cut into the record profits of rent seeking companies.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 10:37 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
Of course it's more "politically viable" to keep the status quo & keep running rail on zero sick days. That's the issue, what's politically viable & what isn't. Political viability is tautological by default. "The only things that will work are the things that work"
The prompt is looking at what might shift that. If there isn't a legal remedy, then let them strike. Shift what's politically viable. If Biden wants to play Reagan, he can. But limiting options to political viability is saying that rail management's desires are more important than rail labor's needs.
posted by CrystalDave at 10:43 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
The prompt is looking at what might shift that. If there isn't a legal remedy, then let them strike. Shift what's politically viable. If Biden wants to play Reagan, he can. But limiting options to political viability is saying that rail management's desires are more important than rail labor's needs.
posted by CrystalDave at 10:43 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
but saying "burn it all down" gets a lot more MetaFilter favorites than it does to actually bring the sides together or give the workers the sick leave they deserve.
All the benefits we do have today weren't given by an altruistic boss in some grand compromise. They were fought for by labor who bled and died to call capital's bluff that better things weren't possible and they'd burn it down if forced to shell out one extra nickel. Labor has gone soft over the decades of hollowing out and capital keeps rolling over them. The elite and ruling class need a reminder that without labor the world stops.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 10:45 AM on December 1, 2022 [25 favorites]
All the benefits we do have today weren't given by an altruistic boss in some grand compromise. They were fought for by labor who bled and died to call capital's bluff that better things weren't possible and they'd burn it down if forced to shell out one extra nickel. Labor has gone soft over the decades of hollowing out and capital keeps rolling over them. The elite and ruling class need a reminder that without labor the world stops.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 10:45 AM on December 1, 2022 [25 favorites]
When we talk about supply chain issues in relation to the strike, I worry that we're lightly dismissing them as though these trains were just carrying Playstations and Christmas socks or something. Wouldn't the coal needed for power plants come on the trains too?
Yes, and this is why the Railroads specifically are covered by the RLA, and not the NRLA like most other unionized industries.
A railroad strike would hit the owners in the pocketbook like most other strikes would, but when we talk about "economic disruption," we're looking at something far beyond consumer spending.
Coal doesn't get to power plants, so thousands of people are suddenly without power in December (yes, another reason to get off of coal power, but that's not going to get solved this month). Chlorine for water treatment is mostly shipped by rail. If that shuts down, then municipal water treatment across the country fails.
A shutdown of the rail system due to a strike could potentially result in the deaths of tens of thousands of people. And since the railroad owners were willing to call that bluff, we're stuck with Congress as the last option for a resolution.
posted by Uncle Ira at 10:47 AM on December 1, 2022 [7 favorites]
Yes, and this is why the Railroads specifically are covered by the RLA, and not the NRLA like most other unionized industries.
A railroad strike would hit the owners in the pocketbook like most other strikes would, but when we talk about "economic disruption," we're looking at something far beyond consumer spending.
Coal doesn't get to power plants, so thousands of people are suddenly without power in December (yes, another reason to get off of coal power, but that's not going to get solved this month). Chlorine for water treatment is mostly shipped by rail. If that shuts down, then municipal water treatment across the country fails.
A shutdown of the rail system due to a strike could potentially result in the deaths of tens of thousands of people. And since the railroad owners were willing to call that bluff, we're stuck with Congress as the last option for a resolution.
posted by Uncle Ira at 10:47 AM on December 1, 2022 [7 favorites]
> If Biden wants to play Reagan, he can
So AOC, Pressley, Omar, Lee, et. al are also "playing Reagan" here? Or is it possible that they believe that labor's interests are not any more served by a catastrophe than capital's?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:53 AM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
So AOC, Pressley, Omar, Lee, et. al are also "playing Reagan" here? Or is it possible that they believe that labor's interests are not any more served by a catastrophe than capital's?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:53 AM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
The elite and ruling class need a reminder that without labor the world stops.
The elite and ruling class won't be materially harmed by a strike. It's regular, vulnerable people who will be harmed. I can't blame the government for stepping in to prevent that, especially when the unions are themselves split on whether to move forward with the existing deal. The vote at SMART-TD was 51-49 against.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:00 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
The elite and ruling class won't be materially harmed by a strike. It's regular, vulnerable people who will be harmed. I can't blame the government for stepping in to prevent that, especially when the unions are themselves split on whether to move forward with the existing deal. The vote at SMART-TD was 51-49 against.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:00 AM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
Apologies if i missed it but if congress does pass the strikebreaker deal, what happens if rail workers walk on the 9th anyway?
posted by repoman at 11:00 AM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by repoman at 11:00 AM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
John McPhee's 2005 essay Coal Train: New Yorker (nonfree), archive.
posted by neuron at 11:02 AM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by neuron at 11:02 AM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
It seems to me perverse to both say "railroads are a lynchpin in the economy, so we need special measures to prevent them from being subject to work stoppage actions" and at the same time "but it's actually fine to screw over the people who make this terribly important lynchpin work lol lmao" which is basically the government's position. I think most people on the blue at least notionally agree with the idea that if you can't pay people a living wage then you deserve to go out of business, but somehow once that living wage gets paired with a week's worth of paid sick leave and the economy is at stake it's a bridge too far.
If the people responsible for getting coal to power plants and chlorine to water treatment plants are so pissed they're willing to let those things happens to get a little bit of respect, well damn, it seems to me that the lack of respect is the problem.
posted by axiom at 11:03 AM on December 1, 2022 [10 favorites]
If the people responsible for getting coal to power plants and chlorine to water treatment plants are so pissed they're willing to let those things happens to get a little bit of respect, well damn, it seems to me that the lack of respect is the problem.
posted by axiom at 11:03 AM on December 1, 2022 [10 favorites]
How do you expect Biden to do that exactly?
I expect him to fight. His very first statement explicitly said that changing the tentative agreement was off the table. He (and Pelosi) gave up without a fight. They do this routinely. When people point it out, the response is "but Republicans." Yes, the Republicans suck, but democratic leadership has no fight. They concede at the starting line. It's infuriating. At least try. Fight and lose if you must, but stand up for something.
posted by Mavri at 11:11 AM on December 1, 2022 [11 favorites]
I expect him to fight. His very first statement explicitly said that changing the tentative agreement was off the table. He (and Pelosi) gave up without a fight. They do this routinely. When people point it out, the response is "but Republicans." Yes, the Republicans suck, but democratic leadership has no fight. They concede at the starting line. It's infuriating. At least try. Fight and lose if you must, but stand up for something.
posted by Mavri at 11:11 AM on December 1, 2022 [11 favorites]
It's regular, vulnerable people who will be harmed.
This is an anti-labor argument. Placing the blame for the harm of a strike on the workers is anti-labor. Under this argument, vast swathes of the work force could never strike. Rich people can grind us into dust and people like you will blame us when we withhold our labor. (I am not a rail worker, but I am in a field where this argument is used against us.)
posted by Mavri at 11:16 AM on December 1, 2022 [24 favorites]
This is an anti-labor argument. Placing the blame for the harm of a strike on the workers is anti-labor. Under this argument, vast swathes of the work force could never strike. Rich people can grind us into dust and people like you will blame us when we withhold our labor. (I am not a rail worker, but I am in a field where this argument is used against us.)
posted by Mavri at 11:16 AM on December 1, 2022 [24 favorites]
It's regular, vulnerable people who will be harmed.
This is an anti-labor argument.
It's a statement of fact.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:18 AM on December 1, 2022
This is an anti-labor argument.
It's a statement of fact.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:18 AM on December 1, 2022
Why The Railroads Refuse To Give Their Workers Paid Leave
is this complicated? (no, no it isn't) NB all of post-industrial capitalism.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:18 AM on December 1, 2022
is this complicated? (no, no it isn't) NB all of post-industrial capitalism.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:18 AM on December 1, 2022
> This is an anti-labor argument. Placing the blame for the harm of a strike on the workers is anti-labor. Under this argument, vast swathes of the work force could never strike. Rich people can grind us into dust and people like you will blame us when we withhold our labor. (I am not a rail worker, but I am in a field where this argument is used against us.)
Would you accept amending the statement to read "it is regular, vulnerable people who will be harmed by the owners and management of the railroads?" Like, is it ever okay to cite the real-world consequences of just letting everything burn in the hopes that scales fall from the eyes of those causing the harm?
posted by tonycpsu at 11:20 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
Would you accept amending the statement to read "it is regular, vulnerable people who will be harmed by the owners and management of the railroads?" Like, is it ever okay to cite the real-world consequences of just letting everything burn in the hopes that scales fall from the eyes of those causing the harm?
posted by tonycpsu at 11:20 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
Breaking the strike (or supporting the breaking of the strike) is NOT the same as blaming labor for the harm caused by a strike.
Strike breaking is certainly unfair to labor, and it also forces labor to bear the all outrageous costs of preventing the harm that would be caused by their strike. But neither of those things are *blaming labor* for wanting to strike or for the likely effects of a strike.
I'm confused as to why so many people think labor is being blamed for the their actions - either by Biden or by anyone in this thread.
posted by MiraK at 11:39 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
Strike breaking is certainly unfair to labor, and it also forces labor to bear the all outrageous costs of preventing the harm that would be caused by their strike. But neither of those things are *blaming labor* for wanting to strike or for the likely effects of a strike.
I'm confused as to why so many people think labor is being blamed for the their actions - either by Biden or by anyone in this thread.
posted by MiraK at 11:39 AM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
> I think most people on the blue at least notionally agree with the idea that if you can't pay people a living wage then you deserve to go out of business, but somehow once that living wage gets paired with a week's worth of paid sick leave and the economy is at stake it's a bridge too far.
Aye there's the rub! Allowing a normal sized business to fail impacts the business owners for most part and their employees only temporarily. Allowing a catastrophic economic shutdown to occur will cause the utter destruction of (if not outright end) the lives of millions of people across the country - and notably, it will impact railroad company owners much less than anyone else. It really is a bridge too far.
This situation is like government using our tax dollars bailing out banks and car manufacturers: except now rail companies are passing the buck to their workers instead of to all Americans as a whole. But in all these cases, these industries/services were and are "too big to fail". The real problem is that any conglomerate is powerful enough to hold the nation hostage like this! Common sense would say anything that's too big to fail or too important to strike should be nationalized, duh. But unfortunately for us, the US government has intentionally blindfolded and handcuffed itself while banks, car manufacturers, and now rail companies run wild on the populace.
posted by MiraK at 12:10 PM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
Aye there's the rub! Allowing a normal sized business to fail impacts the business owners for most part and their employees only temporarily. Allowing a catastrophic economic shutdown to occur will cause the utter destruction of (if not outright end) the lives of millions of people across the country - and notably, it will impact railroad company owners much less than anyone else. It really is a bridge too far.
This situation is like government using our tax dollars bailing out banks and car manufacturers: except now rail companies are passing the buck to their workers instead of to all Americans as a whole. But in all these cases, these industries/services were and are "too big to fail". The real problem is that any conglomerate is powerful enough to hold the nation hostage like this! Common sense would say anything that's too big to fail or too important to strike should be nationalized, duh. But unfortunately for us, the US government has intentionally blindfolded and handcuffed itself while banks, car manufacturers, and now rail companies run wild on the populace.
posted by MiraK at 12:10 PM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
Well, the Senate has voted, and did not manage to add the sick days.
posted by mittens at 12:31 PM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by mittens at 12:31 PM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
> Well, the Senate has voted, and did not manage to add the sick days.
This is really bad.
posted by splitpeasoup at 1:11 PM on December 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
This is really bad.
posted by splitpeasoup at 1:11 PM on December 1, 2022 [5 favorites]
Senate held three votes, rejecting an amendment to extend the cooling off period for 60 days to allow for further negotiations as well as the amendment to add 7 days of paid sick leave, before voting to impose the agreement negotiated in September.
The vote for the sick leave amendment failed 52-43, with Joe Manchin (W.Va.) the sole Democrat to vote against, and 6 Republicans voting in favor - Mike Braun (Ind.), Ted Cruz (Texas), Lindsey Graham (S.C.), Josh Hawley (Mo.), John Kennedy (La.) and Marco Rubio (Fla.).
posted by the primroses were over at 1:12 PM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
The vote for the sick leave amendment failed 52-43, with Joe Manchin (W.Va.) the sole Democrat to vote against, and 6 Republicans voting in favor - Mike Braun (Ind.), Ted Cruz (Texas), Lindsey Graham (S.C.), Josh Hawley (Mo.), John Kennedy (La.) and Marco Rubio (Fla.).
posted by the primroses were over at 1:12 PM on December 1, 2022 [4 favorites]
Cruz and Rubio trying to be friends of labor is an interesting look for two people who are probably running for president in two years.
posted by box at 1:14 PM on December 1, 2022
posted by box at 1:14 PM on December 1, 2022
I sure hope there's a plan for if/when Republicans hold the debt ceiling (and by extension the economy) hostage.
Because I'm going to be pissed if the only "politically viable option" is to just roll over and give them massive cuts to Social Security and Medicare.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:30 PM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
Because I'm going to be pissed if the only "politically viable option" is to just roll over and give them massive cuts to Social Security and Medicare.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:30 PM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
Railroad owners have failed to bargain in good faith for the past 2-3 years, and they just got rewarded for it big time. Disgusting, but not surprising, since Joe "most pro-union president" Biden has mostly sat on his hands when it comes to labor; there's been no push to fund the bled-dry NLRB, reinvigorate attempts to pass the PRO Act, or any mention at all of the UMWA coal workers in Alabama who've been on strike for over 600 days, for example.
Over 50% of railroad workers (the four unions that didn't ratify the TA represent around 55% of the workforce, which nobody's mentioned here) rejected the TA, which stemmed from the Presidential Emergency Board's recommendations- recommendations that were far more to management's liking than labor's. The fact that no sick leave was included in that in the first place was disgusting, and Biden's doubling down on not adding it to strikebreaking legislation even more so. Not only did he do the morally wrong thing, he gave Republicans an opening to further siphon labor support away from Democrats, who've consistently shown their interest in unions only goes as far as using them to get out the vote.
It's infuriating that railroad workers have not only been denied basic rights as employees (sick leave, the right to strike), but that they're the ones expected to suck it up and keep working under awful conditions. Heaven forbid that they strike, which is the only weapon railroad owners are vulnerable to, since it's crystal-clear that Democrats have no interest in reigning them in.
I think we're going to see a mass exodus of railroad workers over the next few years, which will probably be a lot worse for the economy than a strike would. And I imagine that a lot of rank and file union members (leaders not so much, since many of them are content with featherbedding) will look at this episode and think "why would I vote Democrat if they're going to sell me out?"
What a shameful fucking debacle.
posted by heteronym at 1:35 PM on December 1, 2022 [22 favorites]
Over 50% of railroad workers (the four unions that didn't ratify the TA represent around 55% of the workforce, which nobody's mentioned here) rejected the TA, which stemmed from the Presidential Emergency Board's recommendations- recommendations that were far more to management's liking than labor's. The fact that no sick leave was included in that in the first place was disgusting, and Biden's doubling down on not adding it to strikebreaking legislation even more so. Not only did he do the morally wrong thing, he gave Republicans an opening to further siphon labor support away from Democrats, who've consistently shown their interest in unions only goes as far as using them to get out the vote.
It's infuriating that railroad workers have not only been denied basic rights as employees (sick leave, the right to strike), but that they're the ones expected to suck it up and keep working under awful conditions. Heaven forbid that they strike, which is the only weapon railroad owners are vulnerable to, since it's crystal-clear that Democrats have no interest in reigning them in.
I think we're going to see a mass exodus of railroad workers over the next few years, which will probably be a lot worse for the economy than a strike would. And I imagine that a lot of rank and file union members (leaders not so much, since many of them are content with featherbedding) will look at this episode and think "why would I vote Democrat if they're going to sell me out?"
What a shameful fucking debacle.
posted by heteronym at 1:35 PM on December 1, 2022 [22 favorites]
Cruz and Rubio trying to be friends of labor is an interesting look for two people who are probably running for president in two years.
Railroad unions bias 90-10 towards men and are white at only a rate slightly less than the general population. They are pretty much a superset of the fuck you got mine MAGA demographic.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 1:35 PM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
Railroad unions bias 90-10 towards men and are white at only a rate slightly less than the general population. They are pretty much a superset of the fuck you got mine MAGA demographic.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 1:35 PM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
Workers have ignored such legislation in the past. But, as Brennan said, “[I]f they try that, the railroads can march into court and get an injunction from a federal judge ordering the union to go back. And if they defy that order, the unions could be hit with hefty fines.”
I think a strike is unlikely. I think more rail accidents due to Precision Scheduled Railroading are inevitable.
posted by the primroses were over at 1:48 PM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think a strike is unlikely. I think more rail accidents due to Precision Scheduled Railroading are inevitable.
posted by the primroses were over at 1:48 PM on December 1, 2022 [1 favorite]
there is nothing to prevent the railway workers from finding other jobs - and before anyone flames me for what seems to be a right-wing talking point, what i really mean is that if i worked for such callous bastards, i'd find a way out, even at the cost of becoming poor
i did that about a year ago - retired early because i couldn't stand the way i was being treated
oh, and remember occupy? - you know if people would occupy politicians' and parties' offices and corporate hq's instead of streets and parks, we just might see the powers that be give in a little - or show us that we really don't live in a free country anymore, if we ever did - think of it - there are people out in the streets in china under a repressive government who are trying to change things at the risk of long prison terms and we're just dicking around
i think it's a little disingenuous for people to claim republicans are fascists, which they certainly are, when the leadership of the other party is voting for enslavement of railway workers
i am so glad my labor no longer supports this corrupt and awful system - there are millions like me and they're growing every day
fuck the system - it's fucking us
posted by pyramid termite at 1:50 PM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
i did that about a year ago - retired early because i couldn't stand the way i was being treated
oh, and remember occupy? - you know if people would occupy politicians' and parties' offices and corporate hq's instead of streets and parks, we just might see the powers that be give in a little - or show us that we really don't live in a free country anymore, if we ever did - think of it - there are people out in the streets in china under a repressive government who are trying to change things at the risk of long prison terms and we're just dicking around
i think it's a little disingenuous for people to claim republicans are fascists, which they certainly are, when the leadership of the other party is voting for enslavement of railway workers
i am so glad my labor no longer supports this corrupt and awful system - there are millions like me and they're growing every day
fuck the system - it's fucking us
posted by pyramid termite at 1:50 PM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
Coal doesn't get to power plants, so thousands of people are suddenly without power in December (yes, another reason to get off of coal power, but that's not going to get solved this month). Chlorine for water treatment is mostly shipped by rail. If that shuts down, then municipal water treatment across the country fails.
These outcomes are more extreme than the predictions I'm seeing in news articles, which are mostly about price increases and reduced production in the event of a prolonged rail strike. Coal plants don't have fuel stockpiles? Water treatment plants depend on continuous just-in-time delivery of basic resources? Goods can't be moved by other means in an emergency? The government can't negotiate with unions to permit deliveries of essential goods, or ensure that power plants get prioritized over steel production if there's a coal shortage?
posted by Gerald Bostock at 2:12 PM on December 1, 2022 [6 favorites]
These outcomes are more extreme than the predictions I'm seeing in news articles, which are mostly about price increases and reduced production in the event of a prolonged rail strike. Coal plants don't have fuel stockpiles? Water treatment plants depend on continuous just-in-time delivery of basic resources? Goods can't be moved by other means in an emergency? The government can't negotiate with unions to permit deliveries of essential goods, or ensure that power plants get prioritized over steel production if there's a coal shortage?
posted by Gerald Bostock at 2:12 PM on December 1, 2022 [6 favorites]
The vote for the sick leave amendment failed 52-43
...
This has been your daily reminder that the Senate is just one antidemocratic farce stacked on top of another.
posted by Not A Thing at 3:06 PM on December 1, 2022 [12 favorites]
...
This has been your daily reminder that the Senate is just one antidemocratic farce stacked on top of another.
posted by Not A Thing at 3:06 PM on December 1, 2022 [12 favorites]
> The vote for the sick leave amendment failed 52-43
A fucking travesty.
43 republicans and 1 Democrat - Manchin - voted against it; 46 Dems and 6 Republicans voted for. The amendment needed 60 votes to pass. (WHY. ARGH.) A shameful day for America.
> Goods can't be moved by other means in an emergency? The government can't negotiate with unions to permit deliveries of essential goods[?]
This is a really good point. Some part of this strike breaking is about Biden avoiding bad press, and that's just... dirty.
posted by MiraK at 3:54 PM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
A fucking travesty.
43 republicans and 1 Democrat - Manchin - voted against it; 46 Dems and 6 Republicans voted for. The amendment needed 60 votes to pass. (WHY. ARGH.) A shameful day for America.
> Goods can't be moved by other means in an emergency? The government can't negotiate with unions to permit deliveries of essential goods[?]
This is a really good point. Some part of this strike breaking is about Biden avoiding bad press, and that's just... dirty.
posted by MiraK at 3:54 PM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
It seems shortsighted. In 2024 people are going to care about what the economy is like right then, they aren't going to care about what the economy was like in 2022. But the right is absolutely going to capitalize on this as "Joe Biden hates the working class" and that may have a persuasive power far beyond the long-forgotten ups and downs of the economy.
posted by Pyry at 4:32 PM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Pyry at 4:32 PM on December 1, 2022 [2 favorites]
The Democrats need to read the platform.
It’s the most progressive platform in history.
posted by MrBadExample at 4:42 PM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
It’s the most progressive platform in history.
posted by MrBadExample at 4:42 PM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
Most of the big industrial things have railroad tracks on site. You couldn't truck in enough material by truck. They're built to handle rail delivery. The negotiating for essential deliveries might work though.
posted by zengargoyle at 5:45 PM on December 1, 2022
posted by zengargoyle at 5:45 PM on December 1, 2022
I was just writing up a post on this, which I somehow missed had already been done. Thanks for saving me the time! The NY Mag piece explaining the sick leave was great, because damned if I had a clue why it was an issue.
Via twitter, some comments on why the deal is short sighted .
Erik Loomis, labor historian who posts at LGM, on the provisional deal in September, and the recent moves to prevent a strike. Considering his normal rhetoric, I find him amazingly accepting of Congressional action on this. I don't know if it's influenced by the political dimensions, or just a weary realism about the limits of union power.
posted by mark k at 10:01 PM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
Via twitter, some comments on why the deal is short sighted .
Erik Loomis, labor historian who posts at LGM, on the provisional deal in September, and the recent moves to prevent a strike. Considering his normal rhetoric, I find him amazingly accepting of Congressional action on this. I don't know if it's influenced by the political dimensions, or just a weary realism about the limits of union power.
posted by mark k at 10:01 PM on December 1, 2022 [3 favorites]
From a railway worker in Ohio this morning
Good thing the Democratic Party decided to union bust and destroy what's left of their labor electorate in R leaning states. It's not like there's elections every so often, right?
This is why the Democratic Party often gets accused of grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory. They throw themselves on the altar of value-neutral governance because they don't want to piss off any particular voter. But all that comes through is that they lack conviction on anything. This is why they're always seen as useless and feckless and it feeds stupid shit like the "both parties are the same" cynicism.
It's the political equivalent of penny wise, pound unbelievably and inexplicably foolish.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:24 AM on December 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
Good thing the Democratic Party decided to union bust and destroy what's left of their labor electorate in R leaning states. It's not like there's elections every so often, right?
This is why the Democratic Party often gets accused of grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory. They throw themselves on the altar of value-neutral governance because they don't want to piss off any particular voter. But all that comes through is that they lack conviction on anything. This is why they're always seen as useless and feckless and it feeds stupid shit like the "both parties are the same" cynicism.
It's the political equivalent of penny wise, pound unbelievably and inexplicably foolish.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:24 AM on December 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
> This is why the Democratic Party often gets accused of grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory.
This expression assumes the existence of an obvious and unambiguous path to victory. Can you please share what that was here?
This is before we consider that Democrats are probably drawing dead in Ohio even if Biden were to use the War Powers Act to take ownership of the railroads so he could double the workers' pay and give them unlimited sick days. Would anyone here be extrapolating from a single text message exchange with an Ohio voter who said they were thrilled about sticking it to the unions and were excited to support Biden in 2024 to suggest that Democrats handled this well?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:35 AM on December 3, 2022
This expression assumes the existence of an obvious and unambiguous path to victory. Can you please share what that was here?
This is before we consider that Democrats are probably drawing dead in Ohio even if Biden were to use the War Powers Act to take ownership of the railroads so he could double the workers' pay and give them unlimited sick days. Would anyone here be extrapolating from a single text message exchange with an Ohio voter who said they were thrilled about sticking it to the unions and were excited to support Biden in 2024 to suggest that Democrats handled this well?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:35 AM on December 3, 2022
The aforementioned Erik Loomis: Biden and the Railroads:
posted by tonycpsu at 3:02 PM on December 3, 2022
My week was dominated by Biden invoking the Railway Labor Act, asking Congress to implement the deal he and Marty Walsh and worked out with the rail companies and unions back in September. Congress then did. There was an effort to include seven sick days in the contract, but Republicans naturally filibustered it, with help from Joe Manchin. So that’s where we are.Worth reading in its entirety to debunk some of historical analysis seen earlier in this thread.
Left Twitter was furious. This was Joe Biden, Labor Sellout Democratic Neoliberal Pro-Corporate Hack. Now, it was not that. But that was the narrative. I took a different tac[k]. I explained what was going on. I explained that nearly every president would have done the same thing and that many had or even worse. That made me a Labor Sellout Democratic Neoliberal Pro-Corporate Hack, not only to the Twitter left but a lot of labor historians who are on Twitter too. [...]
Biden did make some errors here. He should have paid more attention to this issue from the beginning and his mediation board should have taken the sick leave issue more seriously. It did not, Biden had to scramble, he forced one day on the companies, but that was all, and here we are. There are some down sides to this. I was talking to a friend who is deeply involved in the trucking industry and he was saying that the UPS drivers, who are going to strike next year, were asking what Biden was going to do to them. The answer is nothing–different labor law. But they don’t know that. Instead, they no longer trust Biden. How many of them were Biden voters to begin with was another question and that’s very true of the rail unions too. But still, it does reinforce some narratives that are a problem. [...]
Say what you want about Joe Biden, he isn’t calling rail workers a threat to the nation.
But this narrative is very strong. I respect Rick Perlstein a great deal, but this was just way off base.@rickperlstein: One way to think of the big picture in the railroad labor issue is to compare it to the opportunity Reagan seized in 1981 to fire the air traffic controllers. That, too, temporarily ground a key vector of American commerce to a halt. Reagan ventured the risk to signal that a new sheriff was in town, helping break the back of worker power in the U.S. [...]Other than PATCO being an illegal strike, the labor movement urging PATCO not to strike, Reagan firing the workers, Reagan using it as a message to the private sector to bust their unions too, it leading to the rapid decline of strikes and a decades long war on workers, these two actions are exactly the same!!!
posted by tonycpsu at 3:02 PM on December 3, 2022
Yeah, he's trying to forestall a massive market drop. It won't help - we hard-stopped the economy during Covid and have just been 'lalala'-ing since the end of it; Coyote's gotta look down at some point, regardless of the depth of the chasm he's over.
The very rich person's success in pretending "the market" and "the economy" are the same thing reaches far and wide.
A rail stoppage would be an economic issue, not a market issue. As in, whatever you think the reality is that we've been "lalala'ing" past, this makes that reality worse. In Wile E. Coyote terms, if you imagine him about to fall, no rail service means making sure he gets run over by a semi after he lands.
From a railway worker in Ohio this morning . . . This is why the Democratic Party often gets accused of grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory.
And this is a twitter thread from a railway worker's spouse that is irate at Republican, the party that actually blocked sick leave.
I have no idea, and never will, what the counterfactual is in political terms. One day of sick leave is such an offensive joke maybe the country would have rallied behind labor, for once. But it's by no means certain.
posted by mark k at 6:40 PM on December 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
The very rich person's success in pretending "the market" and "the economy" are the same thing reaches far and wide.
A rail stoppage would be an economic issue, not a market issue. As in, whatever you think the reality is that we've been "lalala'ing" past, this makes that reality worse. In Wile E. Coyote terms, if you imagine him about to fall, no rail service means making sure he gets run over by a semi after he lands.
From a railway worker in Ohio this morning . . . This is why the Democratic Party often gets accused of grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory.
And this is a twitter thread from a railway worker's spouse that is irate at Republican, the party that actually blocked sick leave.
I have no idea, and never will, what the counterfactual is in political terms. One day of sick leave is such an offensive joke maybe the country would have rallied behind labor, for once. But it's by no means certain.
posted by mark k at 6:40 PM on December 3, 2022 [1 favorite]
This expression assumes the existence of an obvious and unambiguous path to victory. Can you please share what that was here?
I mean if they don't even fight it's a fait accompli isn't it? Even if they fight and lose they can lose the battle but still win the war.
The thing which is untenable is that shit is going down without fighting. There's no full court press to get Democratic Party leaders or even rank and file on every possible timeslot of every possible show they can saying "these people deserve sick leave, we can't have people in control of mile long trains being under the weather unable to concentrate, the companies can clearly afford it with their record profits, and the people who are voting this shit down are doing so because they have a vested interest in the railroad companies in the form of stock."
We never fight because for Democratic Party neoliberalism it isn't about the values, it's about the process. They think if we tinker with the process enough we can get the "right" output no matter what fucking garbage is put into it by bad actors. They think they don't have to have values because values are political risks to them. Full throated support of labor? That might piss off someone who had a problem with their union! Holy shit they might lose that vote!
Republicans run rings around the Democratic Party in a lot of elections because as fucking shitty as their white supremacist, ancap hellscape values are, they at least have some. And they take every opportunity to speak to the electorate for those shitty values and flim-flam them about why the electorate should hold them too. Meanwhile the Democratic Party will put together some milquetoast bullshit together and wonder why they don't win. They think it's obvious why the Republicans aren't helping to get sick leave, they're all in the tank with the railroad companies. But it's not obvious to the wider electorate. Not to mention potential '24 Republican Presidential primary contenders taking the opportunity to make fucking hay over this. Biden painted himself into a corner and instead of being able to get on TV and say "if Cruz, Rubio, and Graham think this is a great idea, why don't they convince 10 of their pals to get it past the filibuster?" he has to just let them take the fucking mantle of the worker's ally, their sheer fucking chutzpah aside.
Fetterman won in a state which has a PVI of R+2 by 5 points by being authentic and unapologetic in his notion that government needs to just fucking help people. People respond well to messages of hope. 2008 was fucking historic. People genuinely want to help each other a vast majority of the time. Legislate to those fucking values and when you can't actually make a huge fucking stink about the other guy being a shithead and don't stop telling the people why.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:46 AM on December 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
I mean if they don't even fight it's a fait accompli isn't it? Even if they fight and lose they can lose the battle but still win the war.
The thing which is untenable is that shit is going down without fighting. There's no full court press to get Democratic Party leaders or even rank and file on every possible timeslot of every possible show they can saying "these people deserve sick leave, we can't have people in control of mile long trains being under the weather unable to concentrate, the companies can clearly afford it with their record profits, and the people who are voting this shit down are doing so because they have a vested interest in the railroad companies in the form of stock."
We never fight because for Democratic Party neoliberalism it isn't about the values, it's about the process. They think if we tinker with the process enough we can get the "right" output no matter what fucking garbage is put into it by bad actors. They think they don't have to have values because values are political risks to them. Full throated support of labor? That might piss off someone who had a problem with their union! Holy shit they might lose that vote!
Republicans run rings around the Democratic Party in a lot of elections because as fucking shitty as their white supremacist, ancap hellscape values are, they at least have some. And they take every opportunity to speak to the electorate for those shitty values and flim-flam them about why the electorate should hold them too. Meanwhile the Democratic Party will put together some milquetoast bullshit together and wonder why they don't win. They think it's obvious why the Republicans aren't helping to get sick leave, they're all in the tank with the railroad companies. But it's not obvious to the wider electorate. Not to mention potential '24 Republican Presidential primary contenders taking the opportunity to make fucking hay over this. Biden painted himself into a corner and instead of being able to get on TV and say "if Cruz, Rubio, and Graham think this is a great idea, why don't they convince 10 of their pals to get it past the filibuster?" he has to just let them take the fucking mantle of the worker's ally, their sheer fucking chutzpah aside.
Fetterman won in a state which has a PVI of R+2 by 5 points by being authentic and unapologetic in his notion that government needs to just fucking help people. People respond well to messages of hope. 2008 was fucking historic. People genuinely want to help each other a vast majority of the time. Legislate to those fucking values and when you can't actually make a huge fucking stink about the other guy being a shithead and don't stop telling the people why.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:46 AM on December 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
And The Onion knocking it out of the park with their headline: Biden Signs Legislation To Avert Crisis Of Treating Rail Workers Like Humans
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:47 AM on December 4, 2022
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:47 AM on December 4, 2022
> I mean if they don't even fight it's a fait accompli isn't it? Even if they fight and lose they can lose the battle but still win the war.
This is empty sloganering in lieu of an answer to the question.
> We never fight because for Democratic Party neoliberalism it isn't about the values, it's about the process.
Right. Moderate union-busting squishes like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Barbara Lee, once again, handing over easy wins to their opponents. A tale as old as the hills.
> Fetterman won in a state which has a PVI of R+2 by 5 points by being authentic and unapologetic in his notion that government needs to just fucking help people.
Yeah, he's my Senator-elect. There were a lot of factors that went into his win, and I agree that running on helping people was one of them. But you know what else he ran on? Fracking. And he did so after previously supporting a moratorium on fracking. Turns out politicians sometimes have to choose their battles, distinguish between shades of gray, and take positions unpopular with their own base in order to win over the long haul.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:39 AM on December 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
This is empty sloganering in lieu of an answer to the question.
> We never fight because for Democratic Party neoliberalism it isn't about the values, it's about the process.
Right. Moderate union-busting squishes like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Barbara Lee, once again, handing over easy wins to their opponents. A tale as old as the hills.
> Fetterman won in a state which has a PVI of R+2 by 5 points by being authentic and unapologetic in his notion that government needs to just fucking help people.
Yeah, he's my Senator-elect. There were a lot of factors that went into his win, and I agree that running on helping people was one of them. But you know what else he ran on? Fracking. And he did so after previously supporting a moratorium on fracking. Turns out politicians sometimes have to choose their battles, distinguish between shades of gray, and take positions unpopular with their own base in order to win over the long haul.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:39 AM on December 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
This is empty sloganering in lieu of an answer to the question.
Can I give you an answer to how we could have forced a good deal for the railway workers with legislation through? Sure. Blow up the filibuster. Call the bluffs of Cruz and Rubio.
But I mean, you can sit up there and say "better things just aren't politically possible". I know you're right that it's probably not possible because the Senators jealously guard that fucking filibuster. I'm still going to donate to the least evil people in an election (99.9% of the time Democratic) and if I ever become a citizen I'll vote for them. But if the people who depend on who they voted for get no satisfaction in just getting a fair deal? If they feel like they aren't even being fought for by a multiethnic liberal democracy? The electorate will just turn to strong men who claim that they know who is at fault, they alone can fix it, and they will bring the state to bear against the people responsible. And honestly, at this point, I can't really argue against people who think liberal democracy has failed them and I can't argue against it failing them because it's literally fucking failing them to secure decent conditions in their livelihood. Authoritarians will exploit underlying bigoted grievances to within an inch of their lives. That's how we get 2016. This is what I wish the institutional Democratic Party would see.
They institutional Democratic Party is constantly worried about optics but the only optics they repeatedly give off is "better things just aren't possible".
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 10:45 AM on December 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
Can I give you an answer to how we could have forced a good deal for the railway workers with legislation through? Sure. Blow up the filibuster. Call the bluffs of Cruz and Rubio.
But I mean, you can sit up there and say "better things just aren't politically possible". I know you're right that it's probably not possible because the Senators jealously guard that fucking filibuster. I'm still going to donate to the least evil people in an election (99.9% of the time Democratic) and if I ever become a citizen I'll vote for them. But if the people who depend on who they voted for get no satisfaction in just getting a fair deal? If they feel like they aren't even being fought for by a multiethnic liberal democracy? The electorate will just turn to strong men who claim that they know who is at fault, they alone can fix it, and they will bring the state to bear against the people responsible. And honestly, at this point, I can't really argue against people who think liberal democracy has failed them and I can't argue against it failing them because it's literally fucking failing them to secure decent conditions in their livelihood. Authoritarians will exploit underlying bigoted grievances to within an inch of their lives. That's how we get 2016. This is what I wish the institutional Democratic Party would see.
They institutional Democratic Party is constantly worried about optics but the only optics they repeatedly give off is "better things just aren't possible".
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 10:45 AM on December 4, 2022 [2 favorites]
In horseshit Tiger-Beat-on-the-Potomac news, 'Hawley, Cruz, Rubio emerge as champions of GOP populism amid Trump's decline' (The Hill)
posted by box at 6:07 AM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 6:07 AM on December 5, 2022 [1 favorite]
The consistently illuminating historian Heather Cox Richardson discussed the railway bill at length in the December 5 edition of Letters from an American:
posted by kristi at 7:10 PM on December 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
Biden asked Congress on Monday, November 28, to act to prevent a rail strike, but there was a long history behind this particular measure, and an even longer one behind the government’s pressure on railroad workers.That long quote is only about 1/3 of her piece. The whole thing is helpful in understanding the outsized power the railroad corporations and the obstructionist Republican bloc have in this ugly and unfair conflict.
The story behind today’s crisis started in 2017 when former president Trump’s trade war hammered agriculture and manufacturing, leading railroad companies to fire workers—more than 20,000 of them in 2019 alone, dropping the number of railroad workers in the U.S. below 200,000 for the first time since the Department of Labor began to keep track of such statistics in the 1940s. By December 2020, the industry had lost 40,000 jobs, most of them among the people who actually operated the trains.
Those jobs did not come back even after the economy did, though, as railroad companies implemented a system called precision scheduled railroading, or PSR. ... PSR made trains longer and operated them with a skeleton crew that was held to a strict schedule. This dramatically improved on-time delivery rates but sometimes left just two people in charge of a train two to three miles long, with no back-up and no option for sick days, family emergencies, or any of the normal interruptions that life brings, because the staffing was so lean it depended on everyone being in place. Any disruption in schedules brought disciplinary action and possible job loss.
...
And here is the deeper historical background to this issue: the government has no final power to force railroad owners to meet workers’ demands. In 1952, in the midst of the Korean War, ... Truman seized control of steel production facilities to prevent a strike ... But ... the Supreme Court said that the president could not seize private property unless Congress explicitly authorized it to do so. This means that the government has very little leverage over corporations to force them to meet workers’ demands.
...
And so the House passed the measure forcing the unions to accept the tentative deal on Wednesday, November 30, by a vote of 290 to 137. Two hundred and eleven (211) Democrats voted yes; 8 voted no. Seventy-nine (79) Republicans voted yes; 129 voted no.
But then the House promptly took up a measure, House Concurrent Resolution 119, to correct the bill by providing a minimum of 7 paid sick days for the employees covered by the agreement. That, too, passed, by a vote of 221 to 207, with three Republicans joining all the Democrats to vote yes. ...
The Senate approved the bill on Thursday by a vote of 80 to 15, with Rand Paul (R-KY) voting “present” and four others not voting. The 80 yes votes were bipartisan and so were the 15 no votes. Five Democrats—Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), John Hickenlooper (D-CO), Jeff Merkley (D-OR), Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), and Bernie Sanders (I-VT)—joined ten Republicans to oppose the measure.
Then the Senate took up the concurrent resolution, which it rejected by a vote of 52 yes votes to 43 no votes, with five not voting. That is, the measure won a majority—52 votes—but because of the current understanding of the filibuster rule, the Senate cannot pass a measure without a supermajority of 60 votes. The yes votes for the sick leave addition were nearly all Democrats, along with six Republicans. The no votes were all Republicans, with the addition of one Democrat: Joe Manchin of West Virginia.
Biden maintains he supports paid sick leave for all workers, not just railroad workers, and promises to continue to work for it.
But the railway struggle was about more than sick leave. It was about a system that has historically made it harder for workers than for employers to get what they want. And it is about consumers, who—in the past at any rate—have blamed strikers rather than management when the trains stopped running.
posted by kristi at 7:10 PM on December 6, 2022 [3 favorites]
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OK which industry is getting paid psychic benefits?
They're asking for a paltry number of sick days per year. I say let 'em strike.
posted by axiom at 7:21 AM on December 1, 2022 [14 favorites]