McCarthy gives Tucker Carlson exclusive access to Jan. 6 video
February 21, 2023 9:56 PM Subscribe
gift link “Our producers, some of our smartest producers, have been looking at this stuff and trying to figure out what it means and how it contradicts or not the story we’ve been told for more than two years. We think already in some ways that it does contradict that story.”
Kevin McCarthy hands Fox News - and only Fox News - all of the Capitol’s security camera video from January 6, 2021.
“In a letter to fellow Democrats, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (N.Y.) said party members were working to learn more about the “egregious security breach.” “I write with respect to public reports that extreme MAGA Republicans in the House have provided tens of thousands of hours of sensitive Capitol security footage to a FOX News personality who regularly peddles in conspiracy theories and Pro-Putin rhetoric,” he said Tuesday, referring to Carlson.
(There’s a discrepancy in how many hours of video there are. Fox claims 44,000 hours but the Capitol Police say they only shared 14,000 hours.)
Kevin McCarthy hands Fox News - and only Fox News - all of the Capitol’s security camera video from January 6, 2021.
“In a letter to fellow Democrats, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (N.Y.) said party members were working to learn more about the “egregious security breach.” “I write with respect to public reports that extreme MAGA Republicans in the House have provided tens of thousands of hours of sensitive Capitol security footage to a FOX News personality who regularly peddles in conspiracy theories and Pro-Putin rhetoric,” he said Tuesday, referring to Carlson.
(There’s a discrepancy in how many hours of video there are. Fox claims 44,000 hours but the Capitol Police say they only shared 14,000 hours.)
Yeah this is some bullshit. I monitor right wing radio and one far right website, and in those places they have been talking about so much insane bullshit. McCarthy just threw gas and air on a smoldering pile of suck. Every armchair analyst on the fascist fringe is going to find a few seconds of video that PROVES whatever dumb conspiracy they think happened that day. They've been doing it for a while now.
posted by vrakatar at 10:26 PM on February 21, 2023 [29 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 10:26 PM on February 21, 2023 [29 favorites]
FUD
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:52 PM on February 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:52 PM on February 21, 2023 [3 favorites]
Oh great. Maybe they can hire Andy Ngo to show us some selectively edited clips. Sounds like real transparency in government.
posted by Avelwood at 11:25 PM on February 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by Avelwood at 11:25 PM on February 21, 2023 [7 favorites]
McCarthy has just exposed every safe room, every exit, every camera placement, every security measure in place architecturally in the Capitol building to a group of people who have been actively acting against the interests of the United States. What could go wrong?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:03 AM on February 22, 2023 [129 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:03 AM on February 22, 2023 [129 favorites]
And far beyond that. It's not like Carlson and Fox are going to be securing it particularly well.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 12:13 AM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by lesbiassparrow at 12:13 AM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
Surely this.
posted by chavenet at 1:59 AM on February 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 1:59 AM on February 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
McCarthy has just exposed every safe room, every exit, every camera placement, every security measure in place architecturally in the Capitol building to a group of people who have been actively acting against the interests of the United States.
Boebert and Loudermilk did it, first.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:20 AM on February 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
Boebert and Loudermilk did it, first.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:20 AM on February 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
Tucker Carlson's press credentials:
Fox’s legal team argued that his comments “cannot reasonably be interpreted as facts.”posted by srboisvert at 3:20 AM on February 22, 2023 [14 favorites]
Judge Mary Kay Vyskocil—district judge of the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York—heard the case and agreed, finding that “given Mr. Carlson’s reputation, any reasonable viewer ‘arrive[s] with an appropriate amount of skepticism’ about the statements he makes” and that “this overheated rhetoric is precisely the kind of pitched commentary that one expects when tuning in to talk shows like Tucker Carlson Tonight, with pundits debating the latest political controversies.”
Meanwhile, MTG tweeted that the red and blue states need to have a "national divorce".
And it's also come to light that many of the FOX "News" team were scoffing at the "stolen election" theories amongst each other and then going on to push that narrative anyway.
Can we sue any of these people for any of that?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:46 AM on February 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
And it's also come to light that many of the FOX "News" team were scoffing at the "stolen election" theories amongst each other and then going on to push that narrative anyway.
Can we sue any of these people for any of that?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:46 AM on February 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
Oh great. Maybe they can hire Andy Ngo to show us some selectively edited clips.
I hear James O'Keefe is available...
posted by Gelatin at 4:05 AM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
I hear James O'Keefe is available...
posted by Gelatin at 4:05 AM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
Tucker Carlson's press credentials
The Dominion lawsuit revealed that Fox in general and Carlson in particular are caught in a feedback loop of pandering to right-wing anger and paranoia, but knowing their ratings depend on them continuing to do so. Carlson and others said in text messages that the legal proceeding disclosed that they knew Trump's claims of election fraud were phony, but that they pushed them because that's what their audience wanted. Carlson's reaction to the network correctly calling Arizona for Biden was to worry about the Fox's stock price.
posted by Gelatin at 4:27 AM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
The Dominion lawsuit revealed that Fox in general and Carlson in particular are caught in a feedback loop of pandering to right-wing anger and paranoia, but knowing their ratings depend on them continuing to do so. Carlson and others said in text messages that the legal proceeding disclosed that they knew Trump's claims of election fraud were phony, but that they pushed them because that's what their audience wanted. Carlson's reaction to the network correctly calling Arizona for Biden was to worry about the Fox's stock price.
posted by Gelatin at 4:27 AM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
National Divorce
Secession is still treason, correct? And these are people who support law and order, correct? And they advocate for the death penalty, correct?
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 5:29 AM on February 22, 2023 [16 favorites]
Secession is still treason, correct? And these are people who support law and order, correct? And they advocate for the death penalty, correct?
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 5:29 AM on February 22, 2023 [16 favorites]
Exclusive access means that Fox can create convincing deepfakes without anyone to contradict them. Obviously, they'll use selective editing, but i do not trust them not to use outright fakery.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:43 AM on February 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:43 AM on February 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
Secession is still treason, correct?
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln
Eponyawesome.
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:45 AM on February 22, 2023 [35 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln
Eponyawesome.
posted by Halloween Jack at 5:45 AM on February 22, 2023 [35 favorites]
So there are exactly two, diametrically opposed views of reality being propagated in the U.S. now and going forward. Doesn't this strike adults in the room as patently absurd?
Are we so unmoored as a society of media consumers that we can't just stand back and see how utter bullshit this all is and find someone to clean it up?
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 6:04 AM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
Are we so unmoored as a society of media consumers that we can't just stand back and see how utter bullshit this all is and find someone to clean it up?
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 6:04 AM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
Are we so unmoored as a society of media consumers that we can't just stand back and see how utter bullshit this all is and find someone to clean it up?
I think we're all doing the first part already - it's the second part that's the challenge.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:07 AM on February 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
I think we're all doing the first part already - it's the second part that's the challenge.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:07 AM on February 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
Didn't the Capital Police have to vote to release this, and then actually courier over a shedload of hard drives?
That is, how could (that damn traitor) McCarthy cause it to be sent, aside from an order? Part of me wonders if Fox is just making shit up now.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:24 AM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
That is, how could (that damn traitor) McCarthy cause it to be sent, aside from an order? Part of me wonders if Fox is just making shit up now.
posted by wenestvedt at 6:24 AM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
MTG's "national divorce" comments echo the right-wing canard that hardworking White people subsidize welfare-grubbing cities. The reality is that Democrat-voting counties, with 60% of America’s population, generate 67% of the nation’s personal income, 70% of the nation’s GDP, 71% of federal taxes, 73% of charitable contributions, and 75% of state and local taxes.
Even outside of being treasonous, it's just stupid.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:56 AM on February 22, 2023 [57 favorites]
Even outside of being treasonous, it's just stupid.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:56 AM on February 22, 2023 [57 favorites]
With this level of nuttery, you have to ask: what is it they don't want us paying attention to?
Doors and corners, people. Check doors and corners.
posted by skippyhacker at 7:08 AM on February 22, 2023 [16 favorites]
Doors and corners, people. Check doors and corners.
posted by skippyhacker at 7:08 AM on February 22, 2023 [16 favorites]
Nobody important has been punished for anything having to do with January 6th, so if you were Fox, McCarthy, Carlson, etc., why *wouldn't* you do this? What's anyone going to do about it when they deepfake Biden executing Ashli Babbitt, or whatever it is they plan to do? That's what I thought.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:20 AM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:20 AM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
Why didn't the Democrats already have a trove of this data ready for public release? What did they think was going to happen?
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:31 AM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:31 AM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
My need for escape funds keeps increasing in priority every time I see Faux News involved in things.
posted by mephron at 7:31 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mephron at 7:31 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
why *wouldn't* you do this?
I can't come up with anything: fear of repercussions, decency, sense of duty.. the list could go on, but I can't think of a reason they'd stop pushing this further. And by this, what? The edge. Everything is about to fall right over the edge. What a shitty way to go.
posted by elkevelvet at 7:31 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I can't come up with anything: fear of repercussions, decency, sense of duty.. the list could go on, but I can't think of a reason they'd stop pushing this further. And by this, what? The edge. Everything is about to fall right over the edge. What a shitty way to go.
posted by elkevelvet at 7:31 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
It was one thing when Fox was just a propaganda mill, but now it's a propaganda mill that the Republican Party is openly colluding with. I don't think there really even is a national divide; there's just a lot of people who've been lied to on the daily for a couple of decades.
I wish the Democrats would finally confront this head on. Bring back the fairness doctrine. Go after them under the 'truth in advertising' laws, make them stop calling themselves "news". Something. There's got to be something.
posted by ook at 7:37 AM on February 22, 2023 [33 favorites]
I wish the Democrats would finally confront this head on. Bring back the fairness doctrine. Go after them under the 'truth in advertising' laws, make them stop calling themselves "news". Something. There's got to be something.
posted by ook at 7:37 AM on February 22, 2023 [33 favorites]
Bring back the fairness doctrine.
Which might counter right wing hate radio, but would do nothing about Fox News, which is on cable.
posted by Gelatin at 7:44 AM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
Which might counter right wing hate radio, but would do nothing about Fox News, which is on cable.
posted by Gelatin at 7:44 AM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I have said it before but the Democrats really made a tactical error in the 90s when they ignored Fox News. I don't know if anything can be done now, but we are living in a world where roughly 50% of the population doubts reality.
posted by wittgenstein at 8:02 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by wittgenstein at 8:02 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
OK, fine, then bring back the fairness doctrine and apply it to cable too. Whatever.
Or we can just let them win while we keep dithering and hairsplitting, that's been the democratic strategy since Reagan, as far as far as I can tell
posted by ook at 8:14 AM on February 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
Or we can just let them win while we keep dithering and hairsplitting, that's been the democratic strategy since Reagan, as far as far as I can tell
posted by ook at 8:14 AM on February 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
OK, fine, then bring back the fairness doctrine and apply it to cable too. Whatever.
OK. SCOTUS slaps it down 9-0 on 1A grounds. What now?
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:17 AM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
OK. SCOTUS slaps it down 9-0 on 1A grounds. What now?
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 8:17 AM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I bang this drum a lot: the courts are not a co-equal branch of government. So the response, if you actually want to start fighting the Fox News-esque divorced from reality feedback loop, is to ask SCOTUS for the constitutional basis for Judicial Review given the absence of Congressional action granting them that power. Maybe something cutting about the previously allowed privileges of Marbury.
Without a few shots across the bow, everything that could reasonably fix the country (voting rights, disinfo, etc) hits the buzzsaw of SCOTUS.
posted by Slackermagee at 8:25 AM on February 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
Without a few shots across the bow, everything that could reasonably fix the country (voting rights, disinfo, etc) hits the buzzsaw of SCOTUS.
posted by Slackermagee at 8:25 AM on February 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
OK, fine, then bring back the fairness doctrine and apply it to cable too. Whatever.
The justification for the Fairness Doctrine was that the public owns the airwaves, and one political viewpoint shouldn't be allowed to monopolize them without having to air opposing viewpoints.
That logic can't be applied to cable, because it's privately owned. As Your Childhood Pet Rock pointed out, applying the Fairness Doctrine to private property is a clear First Amendment violation and probably would be struck down by the Supreme Court.
It turns out that these issues are complicated and though Fox News is frustrating, the fact that Democrats haven't implemented what sound like simple solutions ("apply the Fairness Doctrine to cable news!") isn't because they don't want to or lack the willpower, but because the issue is a lot more complicated than it might sound.
posted by Gelatin at 8:28 AM on February 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
The justification for the Fairness Doctrine was that the public owns the airwaves, and one political viewpoint shouldn't be allowed to monopolize them without having to air opposing viewpoints.
That logic can't be applied to cable, because it's privately owned. As Your Childhood Pet Rock pointed out, applying the Fairness Doctrine to private property is a clear First Amendment violation and probably would be struck down by the Supreme Court.
It turns out that these issues are complicated and though Fox News is frustrating, the fact that Democrats haven't implemented what sound like simple solutions ("apply the Fairness Doctrine to cable news!") isn't because they don't want to or lack the willpower, but because the issue is a lot more complicated than it might sound.
posted by Gelatin at 8:28 AM on February 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
OK, fine, then bring back the fairness doctrine and apply it to cable too. Whatever.
OK. SCOTUS slaps it down 9-0 on 1A grounds. What now?...
The point is not the specific mechanism of how to effect this change, it is that this change needs to happen. And I think we can all agree with that.
posted by From Bklyn at 8:29 AM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
OK. SCOTUS slaps it down 9-0 on 1A grounds. What now?...
The point is not the specific mechanism of how to effect this change, it is that this change needs to happen. And I think we can all agree with that.
posted by From Bklyn at 8:29 AM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
I'm giving REM's Automatic For The People a relisten; I was all into it when it first came out, and still hold it in high regard. And now, as then, one of my favorite tracks is Ignoreland, Michael Stipe's full-throated rant against the Reagan and Bush administrations and how thoroughly they fucked over just about everything; but at some point he also turns to the media and their milquetoast handling of Reagan's deeds:
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:36 AM on February 22, 2023 [17 favorites]
TV tells a million lies,....and then in the middle, he turns to the public - himself included - for not having the intelligence and courage to demand better, and wanting to blame someone for that - before admitting that he really just wanted to rant, and doesn't have any ideas for how to change things anyway:
The paper's terrified to report anything that isn't handed
On a presidential spoon, I'm just profoundly frustrated
By all this, so fuck you, man
If they weren't there we would have created themThose were my words exactly in 1992, they are my words now, all of them.
Maybe, it's true
But I'm resentful all the same
Someone's got to take the blame
I know that this is vitriol
No solution, spleen-venting
But I feel better having screamed
Don't you?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:36 AM on February 22, 2023 [17 favorites]
Carriage fees is how to do it. Fox News has lost pretty much all major advertisers, but it doesn't give a shit, because the pennies it makes from MyPillow don't matter compared to the dollars they command from cable companies for the privilege of carrying their bullshit. And they can do that because the number of people who will call their cable company to complain if Fox is off the air is higher and louder than the number of people who will call their cable company to say "I'm cancelling because you give Fox News money." Call your cable company. Cancel because they give Fox News money. Tell your friends who want to help.
posted by Etrigan at 8:38 AM on February 22, 2023 [25 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 8:38 AM on February 22, 2023 [25 favorites]
>the logic can’t be applied to cable
It does not seem insurmountable.
The satellites that bounce that stuff all around aren’t exactly tethered to the earth by cables. There’s some licensing of some sort going on there, isn’t there? Licenses carry conditions. Also, aren’t local cable services licensed in some way on a federal level?
posted by nothing.especially.clever at 8:38 AM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
It does not seem insurmountable.
The satellites that bounce that stuff all around aren’t exactly tethered to the earth by cables. There’s some licensing of some sort going on there, isn’t there? Licenses carry conditions. Also, aren’t local cable services licensed in some way on a federal level?
posted by nothing.especially.clever at 8:38 AM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I'm hoping the Dominion lawsuit might shake things up because 1) Fox is hella guilty and there's an overwhelming amount of evidence against them and 2) Dominion is a private company suing Fox News for libel--no problematic government-attacking-free-press issues here, it's just one private entity seeking damages from another private entity.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:45 AM on February 22, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:45 AM on February 22, 2023 [22 favorites]
The point is not the specific mechanism of how to effect this change, it is that this change needs to happen.
Thank you, From Bklyn. Exactly.
We get so bogged down in "it's complicated" that we get nowhere, defeating ourselves before we even start. Meanwhile the other side just makes up their own rules and their own facts and runs with them, complicated schmomplicated.
posted by ook at 8:46 AM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
Thank you, From Bklyn. Exactly.
We get so bogged down in "it's complicated" that we get nowhere, defeating ourselves before we even start. Meanwhile the other side just makes up their own rules and their own facts and runs with them, complicated schmomplicated.
posted by ook at 8:46 AM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
Well yes. That is the difference between supporters of the rule of law, and supporters of fascism. This isn't some superficial difference of tactics. You cannot defend legitimate government using the tactics of authoritarians.
posted by biogeo at 9:03 AM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 9:03 AM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
When I heard about the release of the video… I thought the first thing Fox will do is find the “antifa” or “undercover FBI” agents who are acting suspiciously (either by acting too violently or not violent enough). So if I were one of the Jan. 6 rioters, I’d watch my back. Fox certainly has no qualms about throwing a few loyal followers to the wolves if it means they stay on top of the MAGA news consumption.
posted by jabo at 9:09 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by jabo at 9:09 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
Carriage fees is how to do it. Fox News has lost pretty much all major advertisers, but it doesn't give a shit, because the pennies it makes from MyPillow don't matter compared to the dollars they command from cable companies for the privilege of carrying their bullshit. And they can do that because the number of people who will call their cable company to complain if Fox is off the air is higher and louder than the number of people who will call their cable company to say "I'm cancelling because you give Fox News money." Call your cable company. Cancel because they give Fox News money. Tell your friends who want to help.
I mean... kinda. But cord-cutting is probably actually a better answer. When your sports-loving friends complain about how they wouldn't be able to watch their teams without cable/satellite, they're also providing for you the primary reason cable/satellite is hanging on. Once people can watch NFL and MLB games etc. streaming from anywhere, that industry is going to fall apart pretty quickly.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:11 AM on February 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
I mean... kinda. But cord-cutting is probably actually a better answer. When your sports-loving friends complain about how they wouldn't be able to watch their teams without cable/satellite, they're also providing for you the primary reason cable/satellite is hanging on. Once people can watch NFL and MLB games etc. streaming from anywhere, that industry is going to fall apart pretty quickly.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:11 AM on February 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
I can think of a few government agencies that someone in a position of, you know, law enforcement could engage to figure out what to do about this.
FCC
Department of Homeland Security
FBI/DOJ
Inside Congress, they removed the magnetic scanners on Day 1 of the new session, and now have released the security schematics to a propaganda station. It's no longer safe to work in the Capitol building, if you're not on Putin's payroll.
posted by Chuffy at 9:12 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
FCC
Department of Homeland Security
FBI/DOJ
Inside Congress, they removed the magnetic scanners on Day 1 of the new session, and now have released the security schematics to a propaganda station. It's no longer safe to work in the Capitol building, if you're not on Putin's payroll.
posted by Chuffy at 9:12 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
You cannot defend legitimate government using the tactics of authoritarians.
I didn't propose using the tactics of authoritarians, I proposed trying to find some way to combat this relentless authoritarian propaganda before it's too late. I know it's complicated. Of course it is. Does that mean we should just give up?
posted by ook at 9:16 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
I didn't propose using the tactics of authoritarians, I proposed trying to find some way to combat this relentless authoritarian propaganda before it's too late. I know it's complicated. Of course it is. Does that mean we should just give up?
posted by ook at 9:16 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
What biogeo just said.
And many of the fascists are finding that making up their own rules and facts isn't working out so well for them after all. The Republicans barely won the House, and lost the Senate, in a midterm election in which they should have won many more seats. Fox looks to be on the hook for big losses in the Dominion defamation suit. Indictments appear to be coming soon from the Georgia election interference case. Many of the January 6 insurrectionists (if not enough) are already in jail.
Yes, the Republicans have a propaganda network that will spread lies for them, and help hide the truth. The so-called "liberal media" needs to recognize that Fox is not legitimate journalism.
But the fact that the Republicans need a dedicated network to push their lies is a sign of weakness, not strength. The Republican agenda is unpopular -- so much so that Mitch McConnell refuses to talk about it. Republicans enjoy structural advantages, but the Democratic coalition is bigger than the Republican one (if they can be relied on to show up at the polls) and demographic trends are not on the Republican side. There's a reason fascists complain about "woke corporations" -- many companies see no percentage in pandering to bigots.
And on top of all of that, Republicans are making extremely clear to voters that under their regime, abortion rights are history.
In the face of this, pointing out that certain simple sounding solutions are not possible hardly amounts to "giving up." But we have to recognize that preserving our democratic system means that we can't accomplish what we want thru willpower alone.
posted by Gelatin at 9:24 AM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
And many of the fascists are finding that making up their own rules and facts isn't working out so well for them after all. The Republicans barely won the House, and lost the Senate, in a midterm election in which they should have won many more seats. Fox looks to be on the hook for big losses in the Dominion defamation suit. Indictments appear to be coming soon from the Georgia election interference case. Many of the January 6 insurrectionists (if not enough) are already in jail.
Yes, the Republicans have a propaganda network that will spread lies for them, and help hide the truth. The so-called "liberal media" needs to recognize that Fox is not legitimate journalism.
But the fact that the Republicans need a dedicated network to push their lies is a sign of weakness, not strength. The Republican agenda is unpopular -- so much so that Mitch McConnell refuses to talk about it. Republicans enjoy structural advantages, but the Democratic coalition is bigger than the Republican one (if they can be relied on to show up at the polls) and demographic trends are not on the Republican side. There's a reason fascists complain about "woke corporations" -- many companies see no percentage in pandering to bigots.
And on top of all of that, Republicans are making extremely clear to voters that under their regime, abortion rights are history.
In the face of this, pointing out that certain simple sounding solutions are not possible hardly amounts to "giving up." But we have to recognize that preserving our democratic system means that we can't accomplish what we want thru willpower alone.
posted by Gelatin at 9:24 AM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
Meanwhile, MTG tweeted that the red and blue states need to have a "national divorce".
Yeah, we've done that in the UK, and it's working out really fucking well.
posted by essexjan at 9:24 AM on February 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
Yeah, we've done that in the UK, and it's working out really fucking well.
posted by essexjan at 9:24 AM on February 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
Call your cable company. Cancel because they give Fox News money. Tell your friends who want to help.
I mean... kinda. But cord-cutting is probably actually a better answer.
Telling the cable company that you're cutting the cord because of sports tells them there's nothing they can do. Spectrum isn't going to be able to bid for NFL rights any time soon. But they can weigh whether it's worth it to continue paying Fox News out of their own coffers.
posted by Etrigan at 9:39 AM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
I mean... kinda. But cord-cutting is probably actually a better answer.
Telling the cable company that you're cutting the cord because of sports tells them there's nothing they can do. Spectrum isn't going to be able to bid for NFL rights any time soon. But they can weigh whether it's worth it to continue paying Fox News out of their own coffers.
posted by Etrigan at 9:39 AM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
I'm happy to accept that the fairness doctrine may not be the best specific mechanism for combating propaganda. I'm feeling pretty crappy about being accused of advocating authoritarian tactics, or of trying to "accomplish what we want through willpower alone", just for listing it as one of several possibilities.
The circular firing squad is feeling pretty real today.
posted by ook at 9:42 AM on February 22, 2023 [18 favorites]
The circular firing squad is feeling pretty real today.
posted by ook at 9:42 AM on February 22, 2023 [18 favorites]
Telling the cable company that you're cutting the cord because of sports tells them there's nothing they can do. Spectrum isn't going to be able to bid for NFL rights any time soon. But they can weigh whether it's worth it to continue paying Fox News out of their own coffers.
You don't cut the cord as a negotiating tactic to get the cable companies to change their ways. You cut the cord to make the cable companies die. Streamable major league sports - > Massive increase in cord cutting - > dead cable companies -> no carriage fees - > Fox News becomes an untenable business model.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:59 AM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
You don't cut the cord as a negotiating tactic to get the cable companies to change their ways. You cut the cord to make the cable companies die. Streamable major league sports - > Massive increase in cord cutting - > dead cable companies -> no carriage fees - > Fox News becomes an untenable business model.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:59 AM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
ook, I'm not accusing you of anything. I'm just responding to the idea that the far Right is able to make up the rules while it goes along, while the rest of us are bound by the rule of law. That is the nature of the problem. I think everyone knows that Fox News and the rest of the fascist media machine is a poison in our democracy that needs to be stopped. The fact that the power of the state has not been brought to bear on the problem is not because people don't see it, it's because no one knows any good ways to do that without destroying whatever legitimacy state power has.
I am not trying to attack you. I am trying to discuss the issues you've raised.
posted by biogeo at 10:05 AM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
I am not trying to attack you. I am trying to discuss the issues you've raised.
posted by biogeo at 10:05 AM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
You don't cut the cord as a negotiating tactic to get the cable companies to change their ways. You cut the cord to make the cable companies die. Streamable major league sports - > Massive increase in cord cutting - > dead cable companies -> no carriage fees - > Fox News becomes an untenable business model.
Okay, now imagine that while cutting the cord, enough people tell the cable companies that they're doing it because of Fox News carriage fees, to the point that "Fox News becomes an untenable business model" moves up three slots and several years in that chain, because the cable companies get convinced that dumping Fox will bring people back, as opposed to all the other things in this chain that they can't do anything about.
It's going to be a lot easier for many people to tell their cable company they're leaving because of Fox News than it will be for many people to convince Amazon that they'll sign up for Prime if Amazon buys SEC football rights.
To clarify: I'm not saying this is a negotiating tactic, I'm saying it's a thing to do while simultaneously doing the thing you're saying to do.
posted by Etrigan at 10:07 AM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Okay, now imagine that while cutting the cord, enough people tell the cable companies that they're doing it because of Fox News carriage fees, to the point that "Fox News becomes an untenable business model" moves up three slots and several years in that chain, because the cable companies get convinced that dumping Fox will bring people back, as opposed to all the other things in this chain that they can't do anything about.
It's going to be a lot easier for many people to tell their cable company they're leaving because of Fox News than it will be for many people to convince Amazon that they'll sign up for Prime if Amazon buys SEC football rights.
To clarify: I'm not saying this is a negotiating tactic, I'm saying it's a thing to do while simultaneously doing the thing you're saying to do.
posted by Etrigan at 10:07 AM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I get what you're saying, but I think you might be missing the signs that the timeline for sports streaming is accelerating rapidly, so much so that people are going to be shocked.
Several major sports notably Major League Baseball are looking into streaming their own games and many large regional sports networks are facing bankruptcy (all of the ones connected to Diamond, sure, but others, too).
I'm not saying people should write Amazon and try and get them to buy the SEC games they want to see. I'm saying in short order, without any prodding from us, we may be approaching a point where professional and larger amateur leagues control their own streaming and by leaping to that, the entire cable model will fall apart rapidly.
This is getting to be less of an if thing and more of a when. Within just a few years, a cable box is going to seem hilariously quaint, like a Hollywood Video membership card.
I guess I just have more faith in the likelihood that one part of capitalism will brutally devour another than I do that letter-writing campaigns can change whether Fox News is on the air.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:22 AM on February 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
Several major sports notably Major League Baseball are looking into streaming their own games and many large regional sports networks are facing bankruptcy (all of the ones connected to Diamond, sure, but others, too).
I'm not saying people should write Amazon and try and get them to buy the SEC games they want to see. I'm saying in short order, without any prodding from us, we may be approaching a point where professional and larger amateur leagues control their own streaming and by leaping to that, the entire cable model will fall apart rapidly.
This is getting to be less of an if thing and more of a when. Within just a few years, a cable box is going to seem hilariously quaint, like a Hollywood Video membership card.
I guess I just have more faith in the likelihood that one part of capitalism will brutally devour another than I do that letter-writing campaigns can change whether Fox News is on the air.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:22 AM on February 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
I noticed during the Super Bowl, which I streamed through a Fire Stick, that the NFL has signed a deal with YouTube TV to stream NFL Sunday. I also don't know anyone in my social circle who still uses cable. I think DirtyOldTown has the right of it. Change is already upon us.
posted by TheKaijuCommuter at 10:26 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by TheKaijuCommuter at 10:26 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
In short, I completely agree that attacking on all fronts is a better long term plan, Etrigan. I just think there's increasing likelihood we won't need a long term plan.
I'm completely serious. I work in the most stereotypically white collar-y office you could ever imagine and it's a recurring conversation I am tired of hearing that if you could just stream the Cubs/Sox games locally, if you could just see the [midwestern alma mater or theirs] games without cable, they'd cut the cord immediately. The waves of RSN bankruptcies is only accelerating what was inevitable anyway.
Subtract sports from cable and cable becomes a niche product for people on the wrong side of the digital divide in terms of access or skills. That industry will decline fast, with no help from anyone. And that will leave Fox News trying to survive off of whatever they can scrounge from the MyPillow guy or those people who want to sell you investment gold coins.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:42 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm completely serious. I work in the most stereotypically white collar-y office you could ever imagine and it's a recurring conversation I am tired of hearing that if you could just stream the Cubs/Sox games locally, if you could just see the [midwestern alma mater or theirs] games without cable, they'd cut the cord immediately. The waves of RSN bankruptcies is only accelerating what was inevitable anyway.
Subtract sports from cable and cable becomes a niche product for people on the wrong side of the digital divide in terms of access or skills. That industry will decline fast, with no help from anyone. And that will leave Fox News trying to survive off of whatever they can scrounge from the MyPillow guy or those people who want to sell you investment gold coins.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:42 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
Once people can watch NFL and MLB games etc. streaming from anywhere, that industry is going to fall apart pretty quickly.
They mostly already can, in my ZIP code Fubo.tv offers all ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC sports, along with ESPN(s), Fox Sports 1 & 2, NFL Network, MLB Network, Big 10 Network, PAC 12 Network, NBA League Pass(es), and like two dozen more live sports outlets.
On topic, this is a loathsome thing for McCarthy to do, but in the wake of the (thoroughly documented) Fox News revelations about their election "fraud" narrative, it definitely smacks of desperation. They may try some really shady propagandistic shit with this footage, but our tools for catching that are sophisticated, too.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:53 AM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
They mostly already can, in my ZIP code Fubo.tv offers all ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC sports, along with ESPN(s), Fox Sports 1 & 2, NFL Network, MLB Network, Big 10 Network, PAC 12 Network, NBA League Pass(es), and like two dozen more live sports outlets.
On topic, this is a loathsome thing for McCarthy to do, but in the wake of the (thoroughly documented) Fox News revelations about their election "fraud" narrative, it definitely smacks of desperation. They may try some really shady propagandistic shit with this footage, but our tools for catching that are sophisticated, too.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:53 AM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
Yep, it's the RSN local blackouts that are the holdup. And we're much closer to those going away than ever before.
And yeah, getting back to the meat of the thing: why can't other news channels file FOIA requests for the same footage?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:56 AM on February 22, 2023 [14 favorites]
And yeah, getting back to the meat of the thing: why can't other news channels file FOIA requests for the same footage?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:56 AM on February 22, 2023 [14 favorites]
(Fubo offers around 30 Regional Sports Networks, which mitigates the blackout problem a fair bit but is still ultimately ZIP code-limited.)
(I feel like a Fubo.tv shill now, ick. Disclaimer: I tried a 7-day trial to watch the NFL NFC & AFC championship games, used the app for the week and really liked it because its interface is like old-school cable/DVR and it offers the randomness and serendipity of things just being "on TV" on a programmed schedule, but it still just ended up being TV with commercials which I learned I no longer even have the patience to fast-forward through. So I cancelled before the trial ended.)
And other news outlets better have already filed FOIA requests. We at least need a publicly available baseline to compare any footage Fox News uses, to detect even passive tactics like deceptive editing.
posted by LooseFilter at 11:09 AM on February 22, 2023
(I feel like a Fubo.tv shill now, ick. Disclaimer: I tried a 7-day trial to watch the NFL NFC & AFC championship games, used the app for the week and really liked it because its interface is like old-school cable/DVR and it offers the randomness and serendipity of things just being "on TV" on a programmed schedule, but it still just ended up being TV with commercials which I learned I no longer even have the patience to fast-forward through. So I cancelled before the trial ended.)
And other news outlets better have already filed FOIA requests. We at least need a publicly available baseline to compare any footage Fox News uses, to detect even passive tactics like deceptive editing.
posted by LooseFilter at 11:09 AM on February 22, 2023
Instead of the fairness doctrine, maybe campaign laws could be changed so that media companies that promote a particular candidate are viewed as making a monetary contribution to that candidate. They could then be limited, regulated, taxed, or what have you to make networks like Fox far less profitable.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:35 AM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:35 AM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
(Fubo offers around 30 Regional Sports Networks, which mitigates the blackout problem a fair bit but is still ultimately ZIP code-limited.)
Half of those are Bally Sports networks, which may be going bankrupt. The demise of the cable companies isn't a straight line down.
posted by Etrigan at 11:39 AM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Half of those are Bally Sports networks, which may be going bankrupt. The demise of the cable companies isn't a straight line down.
posted by Etrigan at 11:39 AM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I'm with DirtyOldTown on this. If the problem is solved, it's most likely because of the death or at least severe decline of cable and the money funneled to Fox from cable subs. Though with those kind of things there's always a high degree of unpredictability in terms of how it'll play out exactly and what the resulting landscape looks like in detail once it stabilizes again.
One way or another we're definitely in the middle of a tectonic shift with regards to sports content availability on streaming vs cable. I watch a fair amount of European soccer (Bundesliga/DFB Pokal, La Liga/Copa Del Rey, UEFA Champions League, etc...). For the longest time it was impossible to get any of it without a cable subscription or, later, through a costly Fubo subscription. But now there's no need for cable anymore to get those. (I don't even need Fubo for the stuff I want, just 2 direct subscriptions for ESPN and Paramount.)
posted by Hairy Lobster at 1:08 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
One way or another we're definitely in the middle of a tectonic shift with regards to sports content availability on streaming vs cable. I watch a fair amount of European soccer (Bundesliga/DFB Pokal, La Liga/Copa Del Rey, UEFA Champions League, etc...). For the longest time it was impossible to get any of it without a cable subscription or, later, through a costly Fubo subscription. But now there's no need for cable anymore to get those. (I don't even need Fubo for the stuff I want, just 2 direct subscriptions for ESPN and Paramount.)
posted by Hairy Lobster at 1:08 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
→
posted by scruss at 1:11 PM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
Didn't the Capital Police have to vote to release this, and then actually courier over a shedload of hard drives?
The chief of Capitol police, Tom Manger, said only: “When congressional leadership or congressional oversight committees ask for things like this, we must give it to them.”--- Alarms raised as McCarthy gives Tucker Carlson access to January 6 footage, Guardian / AP
posted by scruss at 1:11 PM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
why can't other news channels file FOIA requests for the same footage?
repeating this for emphasis - this is exactly what needs to be done - they give it to one, they have to give it to all
posted by pyramid termite at 1:21 PM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
repeating this for emphasis - this is exactly what needs to be done - they give it to one, they have to give it to all
posted by pyramid termite at 1:21 PM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
Or, in language they may more easily understand: where we share footage one, we share footage all.
posted by box at 1:27 PM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by box at 1:27 PM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
I could feel myself approaching GYOB territory on the RSNs Will Take Fox News Down With Them rant, so I went to Mastodon and got it out of my system.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:29 PM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:29 PM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
> Several major sports notably Major League Baseball are looking into streaming their own games
Since MLB doesn't have many games to stream (regular season rights belong to the teams, not MLB), it really doesn't matter what they want to do.
And if the "solution" is just to convince the teams to charge fans direct and not sell their their rights to the RSNs, well I then hope everyone is ready for their $250+/month baseball only service.
The Dodgers get a third of a billion a dollars a year from Spectrum. What you think the Dodgers would have to charge to ensure they make the same amount of money as they are already going to get this year and every year until 2037? I bet it's more than the $75 it costs right to get a cable/satellite package with SportsNet LA.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 1:45 PM on February 22, 2023
Since MLB doesn't have many games to stream (regular season rights belong to the teams, not MLB), it really doesn't matter what they want to do.
And if the "solution" is just to convince the teams to charge fans direct and not sell their their rights to the RSNs, well I then hope everyone is ready for their $250+/month baseball only service.
The Dodgers get a third of a billion a dollars a year from Spectrum. What you think the Dodgers would have to charge to ensure they make the same amount of money as they are already going to get this year and every year until 2037? I bet it's more than the $75 it costs right to get a cable/satellite package with SportsNet LA.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 1:45 PM on February 22, 2023
MLB Considers New Streaming Service to Let Fans Watch Local Teams Without Cable
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:47 PM on February 22, 2023
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:47 PM on February 22, 2023
@ DirtyOldTown: I had cut my cable plan to the bare minimum to avoid paying Fox, but then I couldn't get fucking C-SPAN to watch the January 6 hearings, so I added them all back on. Then the networks didn't even cover Biden's speech about January 6. And, I am growing away from football again. So tonight I'm going to cut that cord once and for all. Thanks for the motivation, DirtyOldTown.
posted by hypnogogue at 1:55 PM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by hypnogogue at 1:55 PM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
There are two houses in congress, did the Senate agree to this?
posted by mbo at 1:59 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mbo at 1:59 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I bet it's more than the $75 it costs right to get a cable/satellite package with SportsNet LA.
But that's only because non-sports fans are subsidizing the costs. I've been paying for NESN for years even though I don't watch sportsball, but when I cut the cord that money disappears. MLB is facing the same problems that Fox News is: the pool of money from carriage fees that cable companies would just pass on to their subscribers is drying up as people cord cut.
Either teams will have to charge $250/month for a baseball only service or they'll have to make due with less money from fewer people.
OAN already got booted from DirecTV because their carriage fees were considered too high to pass on to consumers. As more people more to streaming services which are functionally cable ala cart (something the industry fought for years because networks knew it would break their funding model) Fox News will also feel the pressure to either scale back or risk losing their reach.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 2:06 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
But that's only because non-sports fans are subsidizing the costs. I've been paying for NESN for years even though I don't watch sportsball, but when I cut the cord that money disappears. MLB is facing the same problems that Fox News is: the pool of money from carriage fees that cable companies would just pass on to their subscribers is drying up as people cord cut.
Either teams will have to charge $250/month for a baseball only service or they'll have to make due with less money from fewer people.
OAN already got booted from DirecTV because their carriage fees were considered too high to pass on to consumers. As more people more to streaming services which are functionally cable ala cart (something the industry fought for years because networks knew it would break their funding model) Fox News will also feel the pressure to either scale back or risk losing their reach.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 2:06 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Carriage fees. if you have cable, call, tell them to axe Fox News. Get rid of cable.
Except, it’s cable-addicted/ addled losers who watch the crap and dgaf.
posted by theora55 at 3:26 PM on February 22, 2023
Except, it’s cable-addicted/ addled losers who watch the crap and dgaf.
posted by theora55 at 3:26 PM on February 22, 2023
I have a perfect solution for the people who are serious about a national divorce.
The United States can cede to them the absolute perfect piece of land: Epstein Island.
While redrawing international borders is a dangerous thing, I think this is one clear win-win situation.
posted by ocschwar at 3:58 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
The United States can cede to them the absolute perfect piece of land: Epstein Island.
While redrawing international borders is a dangerous thing, I think this is one clear win-win situation.
posted by ocschwar at 3:58 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Congress is immune from FOIA. The best we can hope for is the Senate manages to assert its majority power while it still has one.
Brexit is going exactly as many of us here in the US predicted. Slower burn on the dumpster fire, if anything.
Fox has already lost a ton of market share to social media and splinter propaganda networks. Doing anything and everything to damage Fox is the best strategy. The difficulty lies in what fills the empty space when Fox goes away...that brand of crazy isn't something any of us is prepared for.
MTG is just trying to rally her white supremacist base...Confederate South traitors who already lost a war. Frankly, I don't understand why she's not in prison, we give her ilk too much leeway to continue sedition in the open...actually, promoted by the media and the RNC. The bigger issue we have right now continues to be the reluctance of the opposition Party to hold any of them accountable. I think part of the problem is, the people who are supposed to uphold the law have been infiltrated by foreign powers and/or are willing participants in the treasonous activity. Thin blue line and all that...
What the Confederacy holdovers have done in the past is assassinate the people who are the strongest voices for change. Starting with Lincoln.
posted by Chuffy at 11:03 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Brexit is going exactly as many of us here in the US predicted. Slower burn on the dumpster fire, if anything.
Fox has already lost a ton of market share to social media and splinter propaganda networks. Doing anything and everything to damage Fox is the best strategy. The difficulty lies in what fills the empty space when Fox goes away...that brand of crazy isn't something any of us is prepared for.
MTG is just trying to rally her white supremacist base...Confederate South traitors who already lost a war. Frankly, I don't understand why she's not in prison, we give her ilk too much leeway to continue sedition in the open...actually, promoted by the media and the RNC. The bigger issue we have right now continues to be the reluctance of the opposition Party to hold any of them accountable. I think part of the problem is, the people who are supposed to uphold the law have been infiltrated by foreign powers and/or are willing participants in the treasonous activity. Thin blue line and all that...
What the Confederacy holdovers have done in the past is assassinate the people who are the strongest voices for change. Starting with Lincoln.
posted by Chuffy at 11:03 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Some of you are debating access to major league sports vs the viability of a democratic form of government.
The Declaration of Independence ends with the line: "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
Maybe we don't deserve to live in a democracy because we are too damn selfish, unlike the people who risked it all to try a new form or government.
posted by Metacircular at 4:15 AM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
The Declaration of Independence ends with the line: "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
Maybe we don't deserve to live in a democracy because we are too damn selfish, unlike the people who risked it all to try a new form or government.
posted by Metacircular at 4:15 AM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
MTG is just trying to rally her white supremacist base...Confederate South traitors who already lost a war.
Note that her proposal involves a total victory for an unpopular Republican point of view: that the Federal government is vastly curtailed, leaving the states to their own devices.
We tried that idea already; it was called the Articles of Confederation, and it failed badly.
posted by Gelatin at 4:22 AM on February 23, 2023
Note that her proposal involves a total victory for an unpopular Republican point of view: that the Federal government is vastly curtailed, leaving the states to their own devices.
We tried that idea already; it was called the Articles of Confederation, and it failed badly.
posted by Gelatin at 4:22 AM on February 23, 2023
Some of you are debating access to major league sports vs the viability of a democratic form of government.
No. Some people are noting that one of the primary villains in TFA is Fox News, a linear TV channel only enabled by an antiquated pay TV system tying carriage fees to local sports broadcasts, the link between which is poised to be severed.
Sometimes one thing affects another.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:30 AM on February 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
No. Some people are noting that one of the primary villains in TFA is Fox News, a linear TV channel only enabled by an antiquated pay TV system tying carriage fees to local sports broadcasts, the link between which is poised to be severed.
Sometimes one thing affects another.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:30 AM on February 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
We tried that idea already; it was called the Articles of Confederation, and it failed badly.
MTG is openly suggesting we try succession again. I don't think her grasp on history reaches back to the Articles of Confederation.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:38 AM on February 23, 2023 [8 favorites]
MTG is openly suggesting we try succession again. I don't think her grasp on history reaches back to the Articles of Confederation.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:38 AM on February 23, 2023 [8 favorites]
She isn't, though; she isn't suggesting red states leave the Union; just that the Federal government let red states govern how they please, without any pesky taxes, regulation, or Constitutional protections for their citizens.
Which reveals that she's aware that her white supremacist Christian nationalism isn't compatible with the Constitution, so she wants the Federal government not to enforce it.
posted by Gelatin at 5:11 AM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Which reveals that she's aware that her white supremacist Christian nationalism isn't compatible with the Constitution, so she wants the Federal government not to enforce it.
posted by Gelatin at 5:11 AM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
As pointed out above, what she's ignorant of is that in terms of the federal budget, blue states basically subsidize red states.
posted by Gelatin at 5:12 AM on February 23, 2023
posted by Gelatin at 5:12 AM on February 23, 2023
As pointed out above, what she's ignorant of is that in terms of the federal budget, blue states basically subsidize red states.
Does it even matter though? It's not like this arrangement gives blue states any leverage. The very suggestion of blue states withholding money or leaving the union to spite those red states would get rightly shouted down as un-American even here on Metafilter because we know a) lots of people would be harmed by such a move and b) that's not the way things work. And so she's free to just spout whatever she wants to rile up her base secure in the knowlege that there's no immediate consequences for doing so because none of it matters to the rest of us anyway.
This is the kind of asymmetric rhetoric that Republicans have mastered and Democrats always seem to fumble responding to. Democrats get too hung up on fact-checking and being right even though there's zero gain. It's not like Majorie Taylor Greene will admit to being wrong or that her supporters will fault her for ignorance.
(Also, I thought we had agreed that Greene isn't worthy of having her name shorted to a three-letter initialism)
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:38 AM on February 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
Does it even matter though? It's not like this arrangement gives blue states any leverage. The very suggestion of blue states withholding money or leaving the union to spite those red states would get rightly shouted down as un-American even here on Metafilter because we know a) lots of people would be harmed by such a move and b) that's not the way things work. And so she's free to just spout whatever she wants to rile up her base secure in the knowlege that there's no immediate consequences for doing so because none of it matters to the rest of us anyway.
This is the kind of asymmetric rhetoric that Republicans have mastered and Democrats always seem to fumble responding to. Democrats get too hung up on fact-checking and being right even though there's zero gain. It's not like Majorie Taylor Greene will admit to being wrong or that her supporters will fault her for ignorance.
(Also, I thought we had agreed that Greene isn't worthy of having her name shorted to a three-letter initialism)
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:38 AM on February 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
What MTG is ignorant of is of Melvillian proportions. Sadly, no one has yet been able to convey to her constituents the manifold drawbacks of this extravagant, malevolent ignorance.
posted by From Bklyn at 5:39 AM on February 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by From Bklyn at 5:39 AM on February 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
Does it even matter though? It's not like this arrangement gives blue states any leverage.
No, especially because her arrangement would impose the Republicans' radical pro-corporate vision on all the states, not just red ones. She isn't proposing a separation, she's proposing an unconditional surrender to Republican values at a time when their priorities are supported by fewer and fewer people.
posted by Gelatin at 6:53 AM on February 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
No, especially because her arrangement would impose the Republicans' radical pro-corporate vision on all the states, not just red ones. She isn't proposing a separation, she's proposing an unconditional surrender to Republican values at a time when their priorities are supported by fewer and fewer people.
posted by Gelatin at 6:53 AM on February 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
Some of you are debating access to major league sports vs the viability of a democratic form of government. [...] Maybe we don't deserve to live in a democracy because we are too damn selfish, unlike the people who risked it all to try a new form or government.
For real? If you don't already see the connection between the need to substantially reel in an out-of-control propaganda machine like Fox News and the continued viability of democratic government, then I'm not sure the world we live in can be adequately explained to you in this thread.
Fortunately, DirtyOldTown sketched it out in an excellent Mastodon post. (Thanks for that, btw.)
Also, it's starting to look like Fox News is going to have to actually pay Dominion over a billion dollars in their defamation suit:
posted by LooseFilter at 7:13 AM on February 23, 2023 [12 favorites]
For real? If you don't already see the connection between the need to substantially reel in an out-of-control propaganda machine like Fox News and the continued viability of democratic government, then I'm not sure the world we live in can be adequately explained to you in this thread.
Fortunately, DirtyOldTown sketched it out in an excellent Mastodon post. (Thanks for that, btw.)
Also, it's starting to look like Fox News is going to have to actually pay Dominion over a billion dollars in their defamation suit:
Yet some legal scholars are stunned by the behind-the-scenes statements collected by Dominion, and how blatantly Fox’s insiders expressed doubts about what their company was putting on the air.This would be a nice financial hit for Fox News, but also will hopefully punch a giant hole in their "it's just entertainment, not actual news" defense, which will drastically curtail their ability to just say whatever they want, night after night.
“Those of us who study these sorts of defamation claims against the media are much more accustomed to cases that have a variety of pieces of circumstantial evidence of reckless disregard for the truth,” Andersen Jones said. “This filing is different.” She noted that the internal messages show key figures at Fox casting aspersions on Fox’s own decisions. They also show an unusually clear timeline and motivation, she said, noting that Fox continued to broadcast allegedly defamatory statements even after Dominion had alerted the network that the claims were false. There’s also evidence that Fox executives decided to keep broadcasting the false statements because they feared losing viewers if they didn’t.
“We just don’t have examples of major media cases with this kind of evidentiary record,” she said. [...] The messages, she said, are “incredibly damning.”
posted by LooseFilter at 7:13 AM on February 23, 2023 [12 favorites]
Kevin McCarthy apparently has released a statement explaining why he released the video - he said "I promised."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:05 AM on February 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
“I was asked in the press about these tapes, and I said they do belong to the American public. I think sunshine lets everybody make their own judgment".I just called his office and left a message saying - okay, fair point. So, if that's the case, I imagine you'll also be releasing them to MSNBC, NBC, ABC, and CBS next, right?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:05 AM on February 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
He promised the radical right wing caucus as a condition to secure their votes for speakership. It has nothing to do with transparency, and McCarthy knows it.
posted by Gelatin at 9:07 AM on February 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Gelatin at 9:07 AM on February 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
"If they belong to the American public, why not give them to the Library of Congress, the National Archives, or the Corporation for Public Broadcasting?"
(A: Because of a crystal flute, anti-choice t-shirts, and (checks notes) Big Bird.)
posted by box at 9:43 AM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
(A: Because of a crystal flute, anti-choice t-shirts, and (checks notes) Big Bird.)
posted by box at 9:43 AM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
He promised the radical right wing caucus as a condition to secure their votes for speakership. It has nothing to do with transparency, and McCarthy knows it.
Oh, yeah, I'm just reminding him he's not the only one who knows it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:45 AM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Oh, yeah, I'm just reminding him he's not the only one who knows it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:45 AM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
As a Canadian, I am alternatively horrified and frightened by what is happening in the USA. As I keep pointing out, despite being told I'm over-reacting, YOUR COUNTRY IS GRAVE FUCKING DANGER.
It sure as fuck feels like inevitable christofascism.
And that will really help us tackle the upcoming collapse of our climate!
Christ, I need a drink.
posted by Savannah at 1:41 PM on February 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
It sure as fuck feels like inevitable christofascism.
And that will really help us tackle the upcoming collapse of our climate!
Christ, I need a drink.
posted by Savannah at 1:41 PM on February 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
It sure as fuck feels like inevitable christofascism.
It could be that the compromises that the Founders made with the slave states will mean that fascism is inevitable. Republicans are over-represented in the Senate and the Electoral College, which they need because a Republican has won the popular vote only once this century.
But the Republican Party isn't embracing fascism because it's strong, but because it's weak.
Formerly solid-red southern states like Georgia and Virginia are now purple, if not blue.
Demographic trends mean that a whites-only coalition cannot command a majority of voters.
People who identify as religious are at one of the lowest levels in history and trending lower, especially with younger people.
The Republican agenda of "transfer the other half of the nation's wealth to the super-rich, with a side order of second class citizenship for women" is massively unpopular, to the point that Republicans were furious when Biden pointed out correctly that Republicans even now advocate for eliminating Social Security and Medicare.
And Republicans have no hope of persuading the electorate, because they have to feed their base hate and lies to get them excited enough to vote.
It's a bad situation, yes. It could be ruinous. But it's come about because the Republican Party has painted itself into a corner with its evangelical white supremacy, and they have precious little appeal to anyone else except those business-friendly types who will hold their noses and pretend the fascism isn't real.
The Republicans lost even a 50/50 Senate split, and barely eked out a majority in the House, during what historically would have been a red wave midterm election. Yes, they have structural advantages, but there are more of us than they are of them, and the rest of us will not consent to their fascism. Which is why everyone is laughing at Green's "peace" proposal that the blue states surrender. Fat chance.
posted by Gelatin at 2:36 PM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
It could be that the compromises that the Founders made with the slave states will mean that fascism is inevitable. Republicans are over-represented in the Senate and the Electoral College, which they need because a Republican has won the popular vote only once this century.
But the Republican Party isn't embracing fascism because it's strong, but because it's weak.
Formerly solid-red southern states like Georgia and Virginia are now purple, if not blue.
Demographic trends mean that a whites-only coalition cannot command a majority of voters.
People who identify as religious are at one of the lowest levels in history and trending lower, especially with younger people.
The Republican agenda of "transfer the other half of the nation's wealth to the super-rich, with a side order of second class citizenship for women" is massively unpopular, to the point that Republicans were furious when Biden pointed out correctly that Republicans even now advocate for eliminating Social Security and Medicare.
And Republicans have no hope of persuading the electorate, because they have to feed their base hate and lies to get them excited enough to vote.
It's a bad situation, yes. It could be ruinous. But it's come about because the Republican Party has painted itself into a corner with its evangelical white supremacy, and they have precious little appeal to anyone else except those business-friendly types who will hold their noses and pretend the fascism isn't real.
The Republicans lost even a 50/50 Senate split, and barely eked out a majority in the House, during what historically would have been a red wave midterm election. Yes, they have structural advantages, but there are more of us than they are of them, and the rest of us will not consent to their fascism. Which is why everyone is laughing at Green's "peace" proposal that the blue states surrender. Fat chance.
posted by Gelatin at 2:36 PM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think we're way past getting people out of the Fox universe, since there's such a rich ecosystem of right-wing media built around that alternate reality. It's helped Republicans in the past by pushing the "outrage" button 24/7, building voter intensity and corroding trust. However, it's possible to overdo it and be so far down the rabbit hole they can't help but sound unhinged to anyone not already on their side.
For example, look at the State of the Union response this year: a couple of minutes in it takes a hard turn to a jumble of over-the-top Republican grievances, with no attempt to explain or justify anything. They assume "normal" is being steeped in their media bubble, but normal is not really paying attention to any of this stuff.
If they were still connected with reality they could probably do something with all this footage. For example, one claim about 1/6 was that it was blown out of proportion. With thousands of hours of footage, there's going to be a lot of normal, boring things going on. But their audience wants to see the baby-eating cabal doing sinister stuff, so they're going to have to find eye candy moments that seem candid or unusual and then spin some nonsense story around it. It won't be effective at convincing anyone of anything they didn't already believe.
posted by netowl at 2:45 PM on February 23, 2023
For example, look at the State of the Union response this year: a couple of minutes in it takes a hard turn to a jumble of over-the-top Republican grievances, with no attempt to explain or justify anything. They assume "normal" is being steeped in their media bubble, but normal is not really paying attention to any of this stuff.
If they were still connected with reality they could probably do something with all this footage. For example, one claim about 1/6 was that it was blown out of proportion. With thousands of hours of footage, there's going to be a lot of normal, boring things going on. But their audience wants to see the baby-eating cabal doing sinister stuff, so they're going to have to find eye candy moments that seem candid or unusual and then spin some nonsense story around it. It won't be effective at convincing anyone of anything they didn't already believe.
posted by netowl at 2:45 PM on February 23, 2023
→
This sounds a lot to me like sports fans have been subsidizing Fox News for years. Uh, thanks guys, or something. It doesn't matter if the sports channels (or teams, or leagues or however it's sold; I've never had cable) are in a big old funding snit: the damage has been done by Fox News. It can fade away, knowing that it has spread dissent and damn near caused a coup in the USA. Job done. Yay for sports fans ...
posted by scruss at 6:13 PM on February 23, 2023
one of the primary villains in TFA is Fox News, a linear TV channel only enabled by an antiquated pay TV system tying carriage fees to local sports broadcasts
This sounds a lot to me like sports fans have been subsidizing Fox News for years. Uh, thanks guys, or something. It doesn't matter if the sports channels (or teams, or leagues or however it's sold; I've never had cable) are in a big old funding snit: the damage has been done by Fox News. It can fade away, knowing that it has spread dissent and damn near caused a coup in the USA. Job done. Yay for sports fans ...
posted by scruss at 6:13 PM on February 23, 2023
Fox News Announces Acquisition of Kevin McCarthy Borowitz
posted by achrise at 8:01 AM on February 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by achrise at 8:01 AM on February 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
This is so brazenly fucking partisan. Dems/Progressives are used to it and just kind of shrug, but we should be raising hell.
posted by theora55 at 11:52 AM on February 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 11:52 AM on February 24, 2023 [2 favorites]
Hey you know that argument I'm stuck on that Fox News will die because RSNs are dying? And it seems silly maybe, like I'm exaggerating the Diamond Sports Group bankruptcy?
OH HAI, Warner Bros. Discovery looks to liquidate their RSN portfolio, retired rn streaming rights to teams.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:02 PM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
OH HAI, Warner Bros. Discovery looks to liquidate their RSN portfolio, retired rn streaming rights to teams.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 5:02 PM on February 24, 2023 [1 favorite]
Murdoch Acknowledges Fox News Hosts Endorsed Election Fraud Falsehoods [ungated] - "Rupert Murdoch, the conservative media mogul, spoke under oath last month in a $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against Fox by Dominion Voting Systems."
“They endorsed,” Mr. Murdoch said under oath in response to direct questions about the Fox hosts Sean Hannity, Jeanine Pirro, Lou Dobbs and Maria Bartiromo, according to a legal filing by Dominion Voting Systems. “I would have liked us to be stronger in denouncing it in hindsight,” he added, while also disclosing that he was always dubious of Mr. Trump’s claims of widespread voter fraud.posted by kliuless at 5:49 AM on February 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Asked whether he doubted Mr. Trump, Mr. Murdoch responded: “Yes. I mean, we thought everything was on the up-and-up.” At the same time, he rejected the accusation that Fox News as a whole had endorsed the stolen election narrative. “Not Fox,” he said. “No. Not Fox.”
Mr. Murdoch’s remarks, which he made last month as part of Dominion’s $1.6 billion defamation lawsuit against Fox, added to the evidence that Dominion has accumulated as it tries to prove its central allegation: The people running the country’s most popular news network knew Mr. Trump’s claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election were false but broadcast them anyway in a reckless pursuit of ratings and profit.[1]
Proof to that effect would help Dominion clear the high legal bar set by the Supreme Court for defamation cases. To prevail, Dominion must show not only that Fox broadcast false information, but that it did so knowingly. A judge in Delaware state court has scheduled a monthlong trial beginning in April.
[...]
On Jan. 5, 2021, the day before the attack at the Capitol, Mr. Murdoch and Suzanne Scott, the chief executive of Fox News Media, talked about whether Mr. Hannity and his fellow prime-time hosts, Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham, should make it clear to viewers that Mr. Biden had won the election. Mr. Murdoch said in his deposition that he had hoped such a statement “would go a long way to stop the Trump myth that the election was stolen.”
According to the filing, Ms. Scott said of the hosts, “Privately they are all there,” but “we need to be careful about using the shows and pissing off the viewers.” No statement of that kind was made on the air.
[...]
Lawyers for Fox News, which filed a response to Dominion in court on Monday, argued that its commentary and reporting after the election did not amount to defamation because its hosts had not endorsed the falsehoods about Dominion, even if Mr. Murdoch stated otherwise in his deposition. As such, the network’s lawyers argued, Fox’s coverage was protected under the First Amendment.
[...]
At one point, Dominion’s lawyers accuse Ms. Pirro, who hosted a Saturday evening talk show, of “laundering her own conspiracy theories through Powell.” The filing goes on to say Ms. Pirro bragged to her friends “that she was the source for Powell’s claims.” Dominion notes that this was “something she never shared with her audience.”
The filing on Monday included a deposition by Viet Dinh, Fox Corporation’s chief legal officer,[2,3] who was one of the many senior executive cautioning about the content of Fox’s coverage. After Mr. Hannity told his audience on Nov. 5, 2020, that it would be “impossible to ever know the true, fair, accurate election results,” Mr. Dinh told a group of senior executives including Lachlan Murdoch and Ms. Scott: “Hannity is getting awfully close to the line with his commentary and guests tonight.”
When asked in his deposition if Fox executives had an obligation to stop hosts of shows from broadcasting lies, Mr. Dinh said: “Yes, to prevent and correct known falsehoods.”
Murdoch's statements are just empty words unless he actually acts on them:
"Our hosts endorsed a false narrative, what a shame, oh well"
vs.
"Our hosts endorsed a false narrative, and so we're firing them".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:56 AM on February 28, 2023
"Our hosts endorsed a false narrative, what a shame, oh well"
vs.
"Our hosts endorsed a false narrative, and so we're firing them".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:56 AM on February 28, 2023
> signs that the timeline for sports streaming is accelerating rapidly
The Way Americans Watch Local Sports Is About to Change [ungated] - "Owner of Bally Sports is expected to file for bankruptcy, while Warner Bros. Discovery is looking to exit regional sports business."
The Way Americans Watch Local Sports Is About to Change [ungated] - "Owner of Bally Sports is expected to file for bankruptcy, while Warner Bros. Discovery is looking to exit regional sports business."
Diamond Sports Group LLC, which carries the games of more than 40 major sports teams across the country on its Bally Sports-branded networks, is expected to file for bankruptcy in coming weeks, which people involved expect to lead to a renegotiation of rights fees—a significant part of teams’ revenue.posted by kliuless at 11:06 PM on March 10, 2023
AT&T Sports Networks, a Warner Bros. Discovery Inc. unit that broadcasts games of a handful of Major League Baseball, National Basketball Association and National Hockey League teams, recently informed the clubs it didn’t have enough money to pay for the rights to carry their games. It offered to let the teams take over the regional networks at no cost and said it might have to liquidate if no deal is reached by the end of the month.
Diamond, a unit of Sinclair Broadcast Group Inc., is the local broadcaster of about half the teams in the MLB and the NBA, and about a third of NHL teams. The company has more than $8 billion in debt stemming from its 2019 deal to buy the regional sports networks from Walt Disney Co.
The financial unraveling of the once-thriving regional-sports TV industry could hasten the shift to a direct-to-consumer model for live sports, giving people who don’t have cable TV the ability to stream the games of their favorite local teams.
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posted by Ryvar at 10:01 PM on February 21, 2023 [10 favorites]