Lightning Crashes
February 22, 2023 7:54 AM Subscribe
Oh man. Seeing Bush and Live at the Hard Rock in AC in 2019 continues to be one of the highlights of the recent decade. Bush was amazing. Live was... a lot. I have a spectacular photo I took of a very sweaty Ed Kowalczyk in the crowd, shirt open, singing. Captured in the photo is another cellphone, also taking a photo, which created a bizarre composition whereby you see two perspectives on his face at the same time. In the secondary cellphone screen he looks a lot - and I mean a lot - like Bat Boy.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:10 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:10 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
Please share said photo. Feel like I need to see this.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 8:17 AM on February 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by [insert clever name here] at 8:17 AM on February 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
I will find it and share it.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:20 AM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:20 AM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
Is it significant that Live are a two-Chad operation? I mean, are there that many multi-Chad bands in the world?
posted by Grangousier at 8:21 AM on February 22, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 8:21 AM on February 22, 2023 [14 favorites]
Here's the image. It will warn you about "mature content" but you need not be worried.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:24 AM on February 22, 2023 [53 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:24 AM on February 22, 2023 [53 favorites]
Fully Bat Boy, as advertised!
posted by wenestvedt at 8:25 AM on February 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 8:25 AM on February 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
I once saw Chad McChadden opening for Chad & The Hanging Chads
posted by armoir from antproof case at 8:26 AM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by armoir from antproof case at 8:26 AM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
That's a great shot, grumpbear69.
posted by gwint at 8:28 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by gwint at 8:28 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
One of the more outrageous ideas that he says Hynes talked the three former bandmates into was investing $1 million with him into a building in nearby Reading, Pennsylvania. “I’m not shitting you,” Taylor says. “The building fuckin’ imploded and fell down.”
Almost admire the hubris of this. It's like Honest John from Pinnochio come to life. These guys are lucky they're not on the coach to Pleasure Island.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:33 AM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
Almost admire the hubris of this. It's like Honest John from Pinnochio come to life. These guys are lucky they're not on the coach to Pleasure Island.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:33 AM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
I saw Live once at the Hartford Whalers Arena back in (I want to say) 1998. I wasn't a huge fan, but they were pretty damned amazing, and their performance of "White, Discussion" made me a low-key fan. Ed always struck me as being way too invested in his "big rock and roll frontman ego" thing, and it's not a huge surprise that he's declared that Live is really just him, and the rest of the band are replaceable widgets. Seems in-character.
How does a random grifter insinuate himself into a successful rock band, to the point of destroying both the band and almost everyone involved with it? It sounds like the answer is just plain hubris. After touring the world and being adored by fans, maybe it's not so easy to open a quiet little guitar shop and basically retire when you're what, 45 years old? Maybe if someone promises to help transform you into a titan of industry, it's too tempting of an offer to reject?
posted by 1adam12 at 8:37 AM on February 22, 2023 [15 favorites]
How does a random grifter insinuate himself into a successful rock band, to the point of destroying both the band and almost everyone involved with it? It sounds like the answer is just plain hubris. After touring the world and being adored by fans, maybe it's not so easy to open a quiet little guitar shop and basically retire when you're what, 45 years old? Maybe if someone promises to help transform you into a titan of industry, it's too tempting of an offer to reject?
posted by 1adam12 at 8:37 AM on February 22, 2023 [15 favorites]
I absolutely loved Live's first record Mental Jewelry when it came out; it was a permanent fixture in my Walkman and my lawn-mowing soundtrack. Ed's weird mysticism/heavy lyrics were perfect for an in-their-head teenager. And it still holds up.
I remember thinking how weird it was that the band sponsored an Indy Car a few years ago, and in retrospect it was a Bill Hynes "investment" with the three instrumentalists and non-Ed lead singer.
On a related matter, it must have been strange during those years to go see the band "Live" and get 3/4 of the band but hear a different singer performing the songs that were all written by the one guy who wasn't there. I get that the musicianship matters but of all the people to swap out the super distinct vocalist is a tough one to replace.
posted by AgentRocket at 8:48 AM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I remember thinking how weird it was that the band sponsored an Indy Car a few years ago, and in retrospect it was a Bill Hynes "investment" with the three instrumentalists and non-Ed lead singer.
On a related matter, it must have been strange during those years to go see the band "Live" and get 3/4 of the band but hear a different singer performing the songs that were all written by the one guy who wasn't there. I get that the musicianship matters but of all the people to swap out the super distinct vocalist is a tough one to replace.
posted by AgentRocket at 8:48 AM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
Just a fair warning that tucked into this article about four hugely successful middle-aged men and the grifter who they chose to go into business with is a horrific and detailed description of that grifter's sexual, physical, and emotional abuse of a 22-year-old woman. And, unsurprising spoiler alert, that grifter got off with a plea deal and house arrest after nearly choking the woman to death.
posted by minervous at 8:52 AM on February 22, 2023 [23 favorites]
posted by minervous at 8:52 AM on February 22, 2023 [23 favorites]
Yeah, aside from the woman in this story... All of these guys sound awful.
posted by SystematicAbuse at 9:03 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by SystematicAbuse at 9:03 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I really liked Mental Jewelry! I remember being exposed to their music from 120 Minutes back in the day. Anything after that was not my bag, but then not everything is made for me.
I read this after someone posted that RS article about songwriting on the Blue (it was in the banner) and was like, "Wow, that sucks. Also, I didn't know they were invested in keeping Live alive, so to speak."
posted by Kitteh at 9:07 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I read this after someone posted that RS article about songwriting on the Blue (it was in the banner) and was like, "Wow, that sucks. Also, I didn't know they were invested in keeping Live alive, so to speak."
posted by Kitteh at 9:07 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Oh my GOD. That article is a trip. I still have my copy of Throwing Copper somewhere. I only ever saw them perform once at a college campus where the price of admission was a donation to a food bank, which was the most perfect encapsulation of how the late 90's felt to me. Alt grunge and industrial were my high school lifeline, and I loved Live for being an all-male band that had a song centered on women. (I also loved Thurston Moore for saying "I believe Anita Hill," but that affection died an ugly death in later years. That fucker. Fortunately it seems middle-age-me can continue pining for Reznor and a few others. And did anyone predict Eve6 was going to turn out to have some good guys? Okay, sorry for wandering off here.)
Anyway, I can't figure Taylor out at all, but like clearly this Bill Hynes guy is a Bad Man and it's just impossible for me to understand why no one else in the band seems to be able to see this. (Even Ed??? Although maybe he just didn't want Taylor to wiggle out by laying blame on Hynes? How bad WAS that drinking problem?)
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 9:08 AM on February 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
Anyway, I can't figure Taylor out at all, but like clearly this Bill Hynes guy is a Bad Man and it's just impossible for me to understand why no one else in the band seems to be able to see this. (Even Ed??? Although maybe he just didn't want Taylor to wiggle out by laying blame on Hynes? How bad WAS that drinking problem?)
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 9:08 AM on February 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
Oh, I have a Live-adjacent story (thankfully free of horrific abuse, jeez). I was living in San Francisco in the late 90s and had a friend ("friend") who bartended and was maybe overly concerned with his status as part of the scene (I was unclear on the importance or extent of the scene). Like, vain and pretty and convinced of his own importance, but also insecure about it. I remember him telling me about spending the evening partying with Live in a house up on Mt. Tam and how cool it was, and my utter lack of knowledge of or interest in this band ruined the story. I had never heard of them? I didn't care about pop music at that point in my life? Why would I be impressed? He was annoyed with me for not being impressed. It wasn't that he wanted to impress me in particular, he just had a need to always be perceived as the coolest guy in the room.
Anyway that's still everything I know about this band. I literally could not tell you a single song of theirs. Sorry! Was too busy caring about club nights with particular DJs, so that's all you need to know about how cool I was/am.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 9:09 AM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
Anyway that's still everything I know about this band. I literally could not tell you a single song of theirs. Sorry! Was too busy caring about club nights with particular DJs, so that's all you need to know about how cool I was/am.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 9:09 AM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
Lawn Beaver, this friend didn't happen to also be a singer/songwriter and sound guy, did he?
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:26 AM on February 22, 2023
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:26 AM on February 22, 2023
No idea? It was a very self-centered time, I wasn't in the habit of asking my bar buddies what they did when we weren't out.
posted by Lawn Beaver at 9:30 AM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Lawn Beaver at 9:30 AM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Ugh, this guy didn’t cause enough suffering in the world by including the word “placenta” in a pop song? (And what’s happening with the care in this hospital where the staff is just allowing placentas to flop about, unattended? You need to check that thing and make sure it’s intact!)
posted by corey flood at 9:36 AM on February 22, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by corey flood at 9:36 AM on February 22, 2023 [12 favorites]
METAFILTER: He was annoyed with me for not being impressed.
posted by philip-random at 9:39 AM on February 22, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 9:39 AM on February 22, 2023 [14 favorites]
Ugh, this guy didn’t cause enough suffering in the world by including the word “placenta” in a pop song?
OH NO. The absolute horror. Someone might use the correct term for a temporary part of a parent's body in a pop song. That's just absolutely. the. worst. what would the children think!!!!!!
(I can tell you what, they think "what's a placenta?" "The thing that feeds the baby when it's inside a uterus?" "cool.")
posted by FritoKAL at 9:41 AM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
OH NO. The absolute horror. Someone might use the correct term for a temporary part of a parent's body in a pop song. That's just absolutely. the. worst. what would the children think!!!!!!
(I can tell you what, they think "what's a placenta?" "The thing that feeds the baby when it's inside a uterus?" "cool.")
posted by FritoKAL at 9:41 AM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
https://www.lyrics.com/lyrics/placenta
posted by goatdog at 9:44 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by goatdog at 9:44 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ugh, this guy didn’t cause enough suffering in the world by including the word “placenta” in a pop song?
How did you feel about the Nirvana In Utero album and cover?
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 9:45 AM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
How did you feel about the Nirvana In Utero album and cover?
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 9:45 AM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
OMG. Radiolab did an episode on the placenta
I think I was still pondering the [citation needed] bit about being one the nineties' biggest bands, but on my first pass through, I parsed this as, "OMG. Radiohead did an episode on the placenta,"
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:53 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
I think I was still pondering the [citation needed] bit about being one the nineties' biggest bands, but on my first pass through, I parsed this as, "OMG. Radiohead did an episode on the placenta,"
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:53 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
and I think the word "intentions" is often written in place of "placenta".
The song uses both, in two different verses, it's the exact same sentence except for the word intentions/placenta.
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:59 AM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
The song uses both, in two different verses, it's the exact same sentence except for the word intentions/placenta.
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:59 AM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
> It sounds like the answer is just plain hubris.
Basically. In 1979, my 27 year old dad and a guy who played for and co-wrote all the his for 60's band The Association were both field service for a business tech firm in Los Angeles, both making the modern equivalent of $35/hr.
The Association guy had made $3M by the end of the 60s (prob like $25m these days), but 10 years later he had to get the same job as a college dropout with almost not career experience (sorry dad).
He figured he had written some hits, so he'd just write some more. But, flying private LAX to/from JFK for dinner once or twice a week adds up, and turns out he might be able to write hit pop songs in 1968, but he couldn't in the early 70's.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 9:59 AM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
Basically. In 1979, my 27 year old dad and a guy who played for and co-wrote all the his for 60's band The Association were both field service for a business tech firm in Los Angeles, both making the modern equivalent of $35/hr.
The Association guy had made $3M by the end of the 60s (prob like $25m these days), but 10 years later he had to get the same job as a college dropout with almost not career experience (sorry dad).
He figured he had written some hits, so he'd just write some more. But, flying private LAX to/from JFK for dinner once or twice a week adds up, and turns out he might be able to write hit pop songs in 1968, but he couldn't in the early 70's.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 9:59 AM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
My main recollection about this band from back in the day isn't their music—it's seeing their photo on the cover of a magazine and thinking to myself "For a bunch of dudes in a rock band, they look like they probably wear a lot of cologne."
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:05 AM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:05 AM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
I just knew that if I read far enough into this thread *someone* was going to bring up the placenta lyric, and Metafilter, you never, ever disappoint.
posted by martin q blank at 10:06 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by martin q blank at 10:06 AM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
Metafilter: placenta
posted by goatdog at 10:19 AM on February 22, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by goatdog at 10:19 AM on February 22, 2023 [16 favorites]
I guess my feeling about the word "placenta" in a rock song is twofold - it's difficult to integrate scientifically accurate language into a grunge/arena rock song without it seeming weird unless you're a smart lyricist in a way that most top-40 lyricists aren't; and second, because there aren't a lot of songs which use the word, it really grabs your attention when you hear it, so it has the potential to take you out of the song's flow if it's employed in a weird way. I looked at some of the song lyrics from various bands linked up thread and some of them were fine - like, a normal, accurate use of the word which worked fine in context. And some of them were...not fine.
Like, when someone describes a hospitalized woman and says "her placenta falls to the floor" I immediately start thinking "wait, she's giving birth, I know more or less the anatomy of that and typical hospital set-ups, how is that happening?" So all of the sudden I'm not thinking "circle of life and death, this is profound", I'm thinking about anatomy and things that can go horribly wrong in hospitals.
In Utero (speaking as someone who was, like, too punk for Nirvana in the nineties - we won't even talk about the degree to which I was too punk for Live) isn't the same at all because there's a history in English of writing "in utero" as a metaphor for something being created/being in process/slowly being prepared. As a medical term, unlike "placenta" it's not super widely used outside of specific medical circles.
posted by Frowner at 10:20 AM on February 22, 2023 [17 favorites]
Like, when someone describes a hospitalized woman and says "her placenta falls to the floor" I immediately start thinking "wait, she's giving birth, I know more or less the anatomy of that and typical hospital set-ups, how is that happening?" So all of the sudden I'm not thinking "circle of life and death, this is profound", I'm thinking about anatomy and things that can go horribly wrong in hospitals.
In Utero (speaking as someone who was, like, too punk for Nirvana in the nineties - we won't even talk about the degree to which I was too punk for Live) isn't the same at all because there's a history in English of writing "in utero" as a metaphor for something being created/being in process/slowly being prepared. As a medical term, unlike "placenta" it's not super widely used outside of specific medical circles.
posted by Frowner at 10:20 AM on February 22, 2023 [17 favorites]
I think we may be overthinking the "placenta" line a tad - I figured it was just "things are going horribly wrong in the hospital right now." The reality is that Live put out some legitimate post-grunge bangers - "I Alone" and "Lakini's Juice" in particular - and "Lightning Crashes" was the sort of thing that made then-college students like me think we were being deep.
(Although I did chuckle at the article's description of them as "quiet verse, LOUD CHORUS").
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:30 AM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
(Although I did chuckle at the article's description of them as "quiet verse, LOUD CHORUS").
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 10:30 AM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
The only more vernacular term for 'placenta' I can think of is 'afterbirth'.
It’s strange there wouldn’t be something more forceful and vivid.
posted by jamjam at 10:40 AM on February 22, 2023
It’s strange there wouldn’t be something more forceful and vivid.
posted by jamjam at 10:40 AM on February 22, 2023
But they’re different things entirely.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:01 AM on February 22, 2023
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:01 AM on February 22, 2023
Anyway, I heard a story about how Live played in Ohio in the early 90s and covered a song they liked by a local band off this poorly recorded album, which is how Live played a track off of guided by voices’ vampire on titus when Live was a pretty huge band and GBV were…not. Probably the coolest thing they have ever done.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:02 AM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 11:02 AM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Turns out I can't see Live mentioned on the Blue without being reminded of this comment pointing out a particularly surreal karaoke story.
posted by EvaDestruction at 11:03 AM on February 22, 2023 [23 favorites]
posted by EvaDestruction at 11:03 AM on February 22, 2023 [23 favorites]
Oh my god that story is insane
posted by gwint at 11:06 AM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by gwint at 11:06 AM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
In Utero (speaking as someone who was, like, too punk for Nirvana in the nineties - we won't even talk about the degree to which I was too punk for Live)
After In Utero, every grunge band worth its salt wrote a song about childhood/birth/dad, which is how it metastasized into every nu-metal band writing a song about how mad they were at their parents. Live just took it the farthest.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:22 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
After In Utero, every grunge band worth its salt wrote a song about childhood/birth/dad, which is how it metastasized into every nu-metal band writing a song about how mad they were at their parents. Live just took it the farthest.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:22 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Huh, having lived through the 90s relentlessly changing the car radio station whenever a Live song came on, I had somehow thought they were a Christian alt-rock band like Creed.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:33 AM on February 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 11:33 AM on February 22, 2023 [9 favorites]
After In Utero, every grunge band worth its salt wrote a song about childhood/birth/dad, which is how it metastasized into every nu-metal band writing a song about how mad they were at their parents. Live just took it the farthest.
Clearly you haven't listened to enough Everclear. Every time one of their songs comes on the radio, either me or my wife quips, "Oh, this one's about his dad."
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:47 AM on February 22, 2023 [25 favorites]
Clearly you haven't listened to enough Everclear. Every time one of their songs comes on the radio, either me or my wife quips, "Oh, this one's about his dad."
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 11:47 AM on February 22, 2023 [25 favorites]
on the placenta derail: Yee yee! We've found 549 lyrics, 2 artists, and 0 albums matching placenta.
[yeah, you don't really want to click that link]
posted by chavenet at 11:48 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
[yeah, you don't really want to click that link]
posted by chavenet at 11:48 AM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Clearly you haven't listened to enough Everclear.
A few years ago we were going through my wife’s old photographs and we found one from her awkward teenage years living in Philadelphia in the mid-90s getting a hug from Art Alexakis. I tease her about in mercilessly, especially now that she lives with me in… Santa Monica.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 12:06 PM on February 22, 2023 [23 favorites]
A few years ago we were going through my wife’s old photographs and we found one from her awkward teenage years living in Philadelphia in the mid-90s getting a hug from Art Alexakis. I tease her about in mercilessly, especially now that she lives with me in… Santa Monica.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 12:06 PM on February 22, 2023 [23 favorites]
Clearly you haven't listened to enough Everclear.
Yeah, I tried to block that band out of my mind, due to the confluence of many things I like done really poorly by them.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:15 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I tried to block that band out of my mind, due to the confluence of many things I like done really poorly by them.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:15 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Coincidentally, their lead singer also thinks "his band" is "Art A. and whoever he hires as backup."
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 12:17 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 12:17 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
On a related matter, it must have been strange during those years to go see the band "Live" and get 3/4 of the band but hear a different singer performing the songs that were all written by the one guy who wasn't there. I get that the musicianship matters but of all the people to swap out the super distinct vocalist is a tough one to replace.
What's even wilder is that in the sixties, a promoter hired two entirely new bands to play concerts as "The Zombies" despite the original British Zombies (of Time of the Season and Odessey and Oracle fame) having broken up.
What's even wilder than that is two members of the "fake Zombies" went on to form ZZ Top.
There were in fact two different bands touring the United States in 1969 calling themselves the Zombies. Both impostor groups were managed by the same company, Delta Promotions, the owners of which insisted they’d legally acquired the songs of the Zombies and other bands. It was an operation that would be impossible to attempt today, perpetrated in an era when fans didn’t have unlimited access to artists' whereabouts, or, in some cases, even know what they looked like.
Probably the craziest con in rock history.
posted by fortitude25 at 12:20 PM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
What's even wilder is that in the sixties, a promoter hired two entirely new bands to play concerts as "The Zombies" despite the original British Zombies (of Time of the Season and Odessey and Oracle fame) having broken up.
What's even wilder than that is two members of the "fake Zombies" went on to form ZZ Top.
There were in fact two different bands touring the United States in 1969 calling themselves the Zombies. Both impostor groups were managed by the same company, Delta Promotions, the owners of which insisted they’d legally acquired the songs of the Zombies and other bands. It was an operation that would be impossible to attempt today, perpetrated in an era when fans didn’t have unlimited access to artists' whereabouts, or, in some cases, even know what they looked like.
Probably the craziest con in rock history.
posted by fortitude25 at 12:20 PM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
[yeah, you don't really want to click that link]
Yeah, you do. (Yee yee?) The clearest impressions I got from the shallow dip into that link are: a) Europeans are much more comfortable singing about human anatomy (correctly) than Americans, and b) that GWAR lyric just cracked me up.
posted by dlugoczaj at 12:36 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah, you do. (Yee yee?) The clearest impressions I got from the shallow dip into that link are: a) Europeans are much more comfortable singing about human anatomy (correctly) than Americans, and b) that GWAR lyric just cracked me up.
posted by dlugoczaj at 12:36 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I saw them once by accident. They were terrible. I hadn't heard of them before I saw them (they were opening for someone I was seeing) and I remember saying, "They're called 'Live'?! Isn't that like naming your dog Sit? Did they think calling themselves In Concert was too on the nose?" I still think it's one of the worst band names ever.
Reading the article, it's astonishing how gullible they were to fall for shit over and over again. Who thinks you can install fibre cable between two states without knowing what you're doing and having a shit ton of money? Mind boggling.
posted by dobbs at 1:01 PM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
Reading the article, it's astonishing how gullible they were to fall for shit over and over again. Who thinks you can install fibre cable between two states without knowing what you're doing and having a shit ton of money? Mind boggling.
posted by dobbs at 1:01 PM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
it must have been strange during those years to go see the band "Live" and get 3/4 of the band but hear a different singer performing the songs that were all written by the one guy who wasn't there
David Milch has a joke about seeing a band who was introduced as "And now, ladies and gentlemen, the neighbors and third cousins of The Miracles" when going to see The Miracles.
posted by dobbs at 1:04 PM on February 22, 2023
David Milch has a joke about seeing a band who was introduced as "And now, ladies and gentlemen, the neighbors and third cousins of The Miracles" when going to see The Miracles.
posted by dobbs at 1:04 PM on February 22, 2023
Throwing Copper was the first CD I ever bought myself with my own money (as a 7th grader) and I really loved it and Secret Samadhi. Sad to learn what happened to them.
Recently I was joking with a friend how you could never name a band Live anymore, the promoter or label would never allow it due to the sheer impossibility of SEO it would present.
posted by jermsplan at 1:23 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Recently I was joking with a friend how you could never name a band Live anymore, the promoter or label would never allow it due to the sheer impossibility of SEO it would present.
posted by jermsplan at 1:23 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
What's even wilder than that is two members of the "fake Zombies" went on to form ZZ Top.
Oh, okay! Zombie Zombie Top. That's the question two thirds answered anyway.
posted by Naberius at 1:43 PM on February 22, 2023 [13 favorites]
Oh, okay! Zombie Zombie Top. That's the question two thirds answered anyway.
posted by Naberius at 1:43 PM on February 22, 2023 [13 favorites]
Recently I was joking with a friend how you could never name a band Live anymore, the promoter or label would never allow it due to the sheer impossibility of SEO it would present.
One of my favorite EPs -- one that gets a "Beta Band in High Fidelity" reaction every time I play it for anyone -- is by a band that brilliantly named themselves NO.
posted by Etrigan at 1:44 PM on February 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
One of my favorite EPs -- one that gets a "Beta Band in High Fidelity" reaction every time I play it for anyone -- is by a band that brilliantly named themselves NO.
posted by Etrigan at 1:44 PM on February 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
Probably not an original idea, but a friend and I joked around that we should name our band either Special Guest or TBA.
posted by indexy at 1:51 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by indexy at 1:51 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Recently I was joking with a friend how you could never name a band Live anymore, the promoter or label would never allow it due to the sheer impossibility of SEO it would present.
I vaguely recall someone here on Metafilter who worked for Google having to specifically code the search engine to recognize the band The The.
it must have been strange during those years to go see the band "Live" and get 3/4 of the band but hear a different singer performing the songs that were all written by the one guy who wasn't there
What's funny is that they were performing (per the article) with B-Listers (the previously mentioned Everclear and Filter) who had bigger hits than Live did during their heyday, but this was in 2012, not 1999.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:52 PM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
I vaguely recall someone here on Metafilter who worked for Google having to specifically code the search engine to recognize the band The The.
it must have been strange during those years to go see the band "Live" and get 3/4 of the band but hear a different singer performing the songs that were all written by the one guy who wasn't there
What's funny is that they were performing (per the article) with B-Listers (the previously mentioned Everclear and Filter) who had bigger hits than Live did during their heyday, but this was in 2012, not 1999.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:52 PM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
Probably not an original idea, but a friend and I joked around that we should name our band either Special Guest or TBA.
The classic college band name was "Free Beer"
"Tonight, one night only! The Ramblers! With Free Beer!"
posted by chavenet at 1:55 PM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
The classic college band name was "Free Beer"
"Tonight, one night only! The Ramblers! With Free Beer!"
posted by chavenet at 1:55 PM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
I loved Live back in the 90s, saw them two nights in a row between St. Louis and Denver, then saw them again later that summer. They had Morcheeba and Luscious Jackson and Radio Iodine opening for them and my roommate caught a drumstick in the eye and it was the best concert ever.
But I noticed reeeeeal early on the weird culty influences on Ed K.'s website and by Secret Samadhi the shine had worn off. Thankfully by then I had heard "Devotion and Desire" on the radio and moved on to the real cult in music, Bayside (who I just saw live last night, and they were amazing and I loved it)!
posted by offalark at 2:16 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
But I noticed reeeeeal early on the weird culty influences on Ed K.'s website and by Secret Samadhi the shine had worn off. Thankfully by then I had heard "Devotion and Desire" on the radio and moved on to the real cult in music, Bayside (who I just saw live last night, and they were amazing and I loved it)!
posted by offalark at 2:16 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Before I read the article, can someone who already read it tell me if the band knew that their business partner was violently abusing a woman? And if they did know, did they do anything? Thanks.
posted by pelvicsorcery at 2:18 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by pelvicsorcery at 2:18 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
"Tonight, one night only! The Ramblers! With Free Beer!"
Or, from the underrated 90s movie PCU - "Tonight, at The Pit, 'Everyone Gets Laid!'"
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 2:19 PM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
Or, from the underrated 90s movie PCU - "Tonight, at The Pit, 'Everyone Gets Laid!'"
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 2:19 PM on February 22, 2023 [6 favorites]
Sounds like all the guys in this story are jerks, with special asshole points for the abuser.
But I seriously don't get the objection to "placenta" some users here have registered. The meter is right for the line, it's an evocative image of something gone horribly wrong, it is consonant with the use of "intentions" on the other verse. It's a fine lyric, Bront.
Full Disclaimer, this comment was written by someone who has used eschaton, lysing, hyperbolic trajectory, and other similar words when the song has called for them, and will absolutely do so again if necessary.
posted by tclark at 2:20 PM on February 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
But I seriously don't get the objection to "placenta" some users here have registered. The meter is right for the line, it's an evocative image of something gone horribly wrong, it is consonant with the use of "intentions" on the other verse. It's a fine lyric, Bront.
Full Disclaimer, this comment was written by someone who has used eschaton, lysing, hyperbolic trajectory, and other similar words when the song has called for them, and will absolutely do so again if necessary.
posted by tclark at 2:20 PM on February 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
Full Disclaimer, this comment was written by someone who has used eschaton, lysing, hyperbolic trajectory, and other similar words when the song has called for them, and will absolutely do so again if necessary.
At the tender age of 19, I wrote the line "You're a massive contradiction to the noble path you always praise / and your parabolic vision tears my image in so many ways" - so I'm scarcely in a position to criticize others' words.
(No, I don't know what "parabolic vision" means.)
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 2:25 PM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
At the tender age of 19, I wrote the line "You're a massive contradiction to the noble path you always praise / and your parabolic vision tears my image in so many ways" - so I'm scarcely in a position to criticize others' words.
(No, I don't know what "parabolic vision" means.)
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 2:25 PM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
If anything, the placenta falling to the floor only shows the respect the band has for the laws of physics.
posted by dr_dank at 2:33 PM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 2:33 PM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
after reading the amazing karaoke story linked upthread I had to go read the lyrics to Lightning Crashes because I hadn't parsed it as a song about dying in childbirth
on reread I'm pretty sure the mother & the baby both (titular) live but a different, older mother dies & her soul gets put in the baby; I'm willing to go to bat for this interpretation but not too hard
definitely someone should have caught her placenta though
posted by taquito sunrise at 2:33 PM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
on reread I'm pretty sure the mother & the baby both (titular) live but a different, older mother dies & her soul gets put in the baby; I'm willing to go to bat for this interpretation but not too hard
definitely someone should have caught her placenta though
posted by taquito sunrise at 2:33 PM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
At the tender age of 19, I wrote the line "You're a massive contradiction to the noble path you always praise / and your parabolic vision tears my image in so many ways" - so I'm scarcely in a position to criticize others' words.
If this is a bad lyrics contest, may I submit the opening stanza to "There's Something Inside Of Me" - which also (inaccurately) ripped off the keyboard riff from Bon Jovi's Runaway - penned by a 12 year old grumpybear69:
There's something inside of me / I can't control it / I don't know what it is
There's something inside me / but it won't show itself / my mind's begun to fizz
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:45 PM on February 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
If this is a bad lyrics contest, may I submit the opening stanza to "There's Something Inside Of Me" - which also (inaccurately) ripped off the keyboard riff from Bon Jovi's Runaway - penned by a 12 year old grumpybear69:
There's something inside of me / I can't control it / I don't know what it is
There's something inside me / but it won't show itself / my mind's begun to fizz
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:45 PM on February 22, 2023 [7 favorites]
Counting Crows and Live co-headlining in Camden NJ in summer 2000 was the first concert I ever went to of my own accord. My brother and I, at 10 and 13, were probably the youngest people in the venue by a good decade. Our dad, in his mid 50s, was around the oldest by a similar margin. I was entirely in it for Counting Crows, to be honest, though I was at least vaguely aware of Live.
My brother somehow managed to fall asleep on the lawn during Live’s set, which resulted in a long procession of stoned college students passing by our blanket saying “oh, look at the little kid, he’s so cute.” As far as first experiences with stoned people go, it was about the best case scenario.
My dad, who agreed to take us to this show completely on the basis of Counting Crows, was totally unfamiliar with Live going in, and came out completely unimpressed. In the car on the way back home his only comment was “wow, they really hate York Pennsylvania.”
posted by ActionPopulated at 3:02 PM on February 22, 2023 [13 favorites]
My brother somehow managed to fall asleep on the lawn during Live’s set, which resulted in a long procession of stoned college students passing by our blanket saying “oh, look at the little kid, he’s so cute.” As far as first experiences with stoned people go, it was about the best case scenario.
My dad, who agreed to take us to this show completely on the basis of Counting Crows, was totally unfamiliar with Live going in, and came out completely unimpressed. In the car on the way back home his only comment was “wow, they really hate York Pennsylvania.”
posted by ActionPopulated at 3:02 PM on February 22, 2023 [13 favorites]
Before I read the article, can someone who already read it tell me if the band knew that their business partner was violently abusing a woman? And if they did know, did they do anything?
Taylor says he didn't know. I'm quoting part of the article but leaving out the more vivid descriptions of the abuse here. It doesn't sound like anyone else in the band is talking about it at all.
Looking back now, Taylor wishes he’d paid more attention to the signals that things didn’t seem right with Hynes — in particular, the relationship with his accuser, who Taylor knew from her time working in the office. “I have deep regrets that I wasn’t more attuned to their relationship,” he says. “I was touring in a rock band, and it wasn’t like I was in the office every day.” Later, he was shown visual evidence from the alleged attack in Fiji that shocked him: [visual description of the abuse] “Those images will never leave my mind. [visual description of the abuse]. That’s not the kind of human being that I’m going to forgive.”
posted by creepygirl at 3:50 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Taylor says he didn't know. I'm quoting part of the article but leaving out the more vivid descriptions of the abuse here. It doesn't sound like anyone else in the band is talking about it at all.
Looking back now, Taylor wishes he’d paid more attention to the signals that things didn’t seem right with Hynes — in particular, the relationship with his accuser, who Taylor knew from her time working in the office. “I have deep regrets that I wasn’t more attuned to their relationship,” he says. “I was touring in a rock band, and it wasn’t like I was in the office every day.” Later, he was shown visual evidence from the alleged attack in Fiji that shocked him: [visual description of the abuse] “Those images will never leave my mind. [visual description of the abuse]. That’s not the kind of human being that I’m going to forgive.”
posted by creepygirl at 3:50 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
I only ever saw them perform once at a college campus where the price of admission was a donation to a food bank...
That's how I first saw Live: summer of 1994, somewhere in the middle of UCLA, me and four buddies all dropping cans of food into bins so we could see a shirtless (and probably sweaty) Ed Kowalczyk climb on top of the speakers and dive into the crowd's waiting, upstretched arms. Ed had shaved his head but for a single long braid in the back of his head. Pretty sure he was also wearing jeans that were nine sizes too big.
I like to think that they were probably regular-sized jeans, but time has enlarged them, like the fish that got away. When I'm on my deathbed, I'll tell my grandchildren of the time I saw a singer wearing jeans so large, an updraft carried him away into space.
posted by RakDaddy at 4:41 PM on February 22, 2023 [35 favorites]
That's how I first saw Live: summer of 1994, somewhere in the middle of UCLA, me and four buddies all dropping cans of food into bins so we could see a shirtless (and probably sweaty) Ed Kowalczyk climb on top of the speakers and dive into the crowd's waiting, upstretched arms. Ed had shaved his head but for a single long braid in the back of his head. Pretty sure he was also wearing jeans that were nine sizes too big.
I like to think that they were probably regular-sized jeans, but time has enlarged them, like the fish that got away. When I'm on my deathbed, I'll tell my grandchildren of the time I saw a singer wearing jeans so large, an updraft carried him away into space.
posted by RakDaddy at 4:41 PM on February 22, 2023 [35 favorites]
I like to think that they were probably regular-sized jeans, but time has enlarged them, like the fish that got away. When I'm on my deathbed, I'll tell my grandchildren of the time I saw a singer wearing jeans so large, an updraft carried him away into space.
I am completely entranced with this image and comment.
posted by jokeefe at 4:52 PM on February 22, 2023 [16 favorites]
I am completely entranced with this image and comment.
posted by jokeefe at 4:52 PM on February 22, 2023 [16 favorites]
Yes but is it pronounced ‘Live’ or ‘Live’?
posted by aquanaut at 5:01 PM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by aquanaut at 5:01 PM on February 22, 2023 [5 favorites]
It's pronounced gif.
posted by tclark at 5:10 PM on February 22, 2023 [23 favorites]
posted by tclark at 5:10 PM on February 22, 2023 [23 favorites]
Recently I was joking with a friend how you could never name a band Live anymore, the promoter or label would never allow it due to the sheer impossibility of SEO it would present.
See, you might think so, but naming bands completely un-Googlable things was a trend not that long ago that kind of continues. Really they were just ahead of their time.
I saw Live when the band played my college's annual music festival, and it was actually an amazing show that inspired me to buy a cowboy hat. Birds of Pray was its latest album before that, and it was actually great live. It's sad how it all ended!
posted by limeonaire at 5:20 PM on February 22, 2023
See, you might think so, but naming bands completely un-Googlable things was a trend not that long ago that kind of continues. Really they were just ahead of their time.
I saw Live when the band played my college's annual music festival, and it was actually an amazing show that inspired me to buy a cowboy hat. Birds of Pray was its latest album before that, and it was actually great live. It's sad how it all ended!
posted by limeonaire at 5:20 PM on February 22, 2023
With all this "placenta" talk, this seems like a good time to bring up the late great Blackbean and Placenta label. They released stuff from Orange Cake Mix and Boyracer as well as the likes of Gang Wizard and Harry Pussy, musick for the entire dysfunctional family unit!
As for Live...I'll admit to liking that "I Alone" song, but the fact that two of their members are still willing to throw their lot behind someone like Hynes says a lot about them, none of it good.
posted by gtrwolf at 6:09 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
As for Live...I'll admit to liking that "I Alone" song, but the fact that two of their members are still willing to throw their lot behind someone like Hynes says a lot about them, none of it good.
posted by gtrwolf at 6:09 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Oh yeah, speaking of Free Beer... (The lyric "Whatever happened to all the cash" seems appropriate for the above article). Too bad Alternative Tentacles never released any more volumes of its Skate Punk 1980's Original Formula series after its JFA retrospective.
posted by gtrwolf at 6:20 PM on February 22, 2023
posted by gtrwolf at 6:20 PM on February 22, 2023
Wow, everyone, this comment thread was a journey. A journey I have enjoyed immensely this fine evening.
posted by idiotking at 6:43 PM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by idiotking at 6:43 PM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I like to think that they were probably regular-sized jeans, but time has enlarged them, like the fish that got away.
Oh no, they probably were that big. The 90s were the Time Of Baggy Jeans. Remember ravers and their JNCOs?
posted by Big Al 8000 at 7:05 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
Oh no, they probably were that big. The 90s were the Time Of Baggy Jeans. Remember ravers and their JNCOs?
posted by Big Al 8000 at 7:05 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I saw them once by accident. They were terrible.
Good to see that after all these years, “Metafilter:Your favorite band sucks” is the one thing that’s held us all together.
posted by hwyengr at 7:16 PM on February 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
Good to see that after all these years, “Metafilter:Your favorite band sucks” is the one thing that’s held us all together.
posted by hwyengr at 7:16 PM on February 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
Fascinating article and that grifter is really something. I will say I like to think of myself as being pretty knowledgeable about alternative music but I really have no idea who Live is or what they sound like. But outside from Nirvana I can’t say I know what any of the bands mentioned in the article sound like. I think this is some weird college-alt US kind of thing. Meanwhile Codeine just reformed and performed the other day at the Numero Festival. That’s more my kind of alternative.
Sorry for the weird derail!
posted by misterpatrick at 7:23 PM on February 22, 2023
Sorry for the weird derail!
posted by misterpatrick at 7:23 PM on February 22, 2023
This story's got some great quotes:
Since cutting a deal with prosecutors in September 2022, in which he pleaded no contest to felony criminal trespass, felony theft by deception, two counts of felony forgery, misdemeanor stalking, and misdemeanor simple assault, Hynes has been held under house arrest at Live’s former corporate headquarters in York, Pennsylvania. We’re speaking over Zoom, with his lawyer looking on. ‘[Taylor] is a selfish individual,’ Hynes continues. ‘He only looks out for Chad Taylor … and I’m probably one of the nicest, kindest people you’ll ever meet.’also
Hynes counters, calmly and without hesitation, that he was always the man he claimed to be. ‘I’m a real estate investor,’ Hynes says. ‘I have such great credit that I could walk into Mercedes right now and walk out with a $300,000 car if I wanted to.’Seems legit.
When confronted with this, Hynes says he was the victim of multiple identity thefts, which he blames for the other bankruptcies in the system. ‘One of the people doing the identity thefts was another William T. Hynes,’ he says. ‘Somebody said it may or may not be a half brother, but I don’t know if that’s true or not because I didn’t grow up with my father.’Being named 'William T. Hynes' is a big help when you want to impersonate 'William T. Hynes'.
...and formed United Fiber and Data. The idea came from Hynes. ‘At first I was like, 'fiber optics?' ’ says Taylor. ‘We barely know anything about real estate, let alone fiber.’ But Hynes had an idea to lay down a fiber-optic cable that ran directly from New York to Ashburn, Virginia, bypassing the big cities along the I-95 corridor where Verizon and others ran their cables. ‘I know this sounds weird, but I was like, 'OK, that sounds like a great idea', ’As for Taylor:
Taylor is cooperating with a joint state police/FBI task force that is investigating United Fiber and Data, swears that he was unaware of any financial misdeeds at the time. ‘Anyone that might doubt my position should know that there were very sophisticated fiduciaries that he fooled as well,’ he says. ‘I’m talking about outside accountants, outside auditors, inside CFOs, inside legal counsel, inside CPAs. We were all manipulated. I’m a guitar player. Call me unsophisticated.’posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 7:34 PM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]
I bought “Throwing Copper” on Cassette in late 94 or early 95. One of the handful of full album cassettes I ever purchased. My first and last JNCO jeans purchase was 98. I can’t remember anything I wore between 94-99 except I had a Michael Jordan shirt
posted by CostcoCultist at 7:36 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by CostcoCultist at 7:36 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think this is some weird college-alt US kind of thing.
To be honest at this point in the mid-late 90s I'm not sure what Live were the alternative to. Was there also a mainstream rock genre at the time?
I was listening to Brit pop and lo-fi stuff and going to raves so whatever was truly mainstream at the time totally passed me by.
posted by oneirodynia at 7:41 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
To be honest at this point in the mid-late 90s I'm not sure what Live were the alternative to. Was there also a mainstream rock genre at the time?
I was listening to Brit pop and lo-fi stuff and going to raves so whatever was truly mainstream at the time totally passed me by.
posted by oneirodynia at 7:41 PM on February 22, 2023 [1 favorite]
Was there also a mainstream rock genre at the time?
Sure there was. Metallica, REM, U2, Tom Petty, Guns N Roses, Bryan Adams, Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, AC/DC, and all the hair metal bands were still going strong.
However, alternative rock was really a genre that was against pop, like Ace of Base, Celine Dion, etc.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:05 PM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Sure there was. Metallica, REM, U2, Tom Petty, Guns N Roses, Bryan Adams, Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, AC/DC, and all the hair metal bands were still going strong.
However, alternative rock was really a genre that was against pop, like Ace of Base, Celine Dion, etc.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:05 PM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Oh, man. Live. I had a friend back in college whose band got pushed off the opening act bill for some minor late 80's college rock act at The Electric Banana by a pre-Live Live. He was righteously pissed that a bunch of "shitty talentless high achoolers" stole his band's gig. By the time we saw their first video on 120 minutes a few years later, he LOST HIS SHIT. Like, for two weeks he would just be ranting to no one and everyone about "those FUCKING teenagers" making it big while his band broke up. I should send him this article. Maybe it will help salve the wound a little.
posted by KingEdRa at 8:21 PM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by KingEdRa at 8:21 PM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
Sure there was. Metallica, REM, U2, Tom Petty, Guns N Roses, Bryan Adams, Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, AC/DC, and all the hair metal bands were still going strong.
In the 90s most of those bands would have been played on the local classic rock station, even if they were making new music. I can see how that could be construed as mainstream, but then I'm even more puzzled by Live being called "alternative" unless by that time alternative just meant "not old".
posted by oneirodynia at 8:34 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
In the 90s most of those bands would have been played on the local classic rock station, even if they were making new music. I can see how that could be construed as mainstream, but then I'm even more puzzled by Live being called "alternative" unless by that time alternative just meant "not old".
posted by oneirodynia at 8:34 PM on February 22, 2023 [2 favorites]
In the 90s most of those bands would have been played on the local classic rock station, even if they were making new music.
And on the mainstream pop channel because the same year Live released Throwing Copper, Aerosmith was in their 'Alicia Sliverstone' in our videos phase, had multiple chart toppers and Bon Jovi had a hit with "Always". Check the pop charts - those guys were still around in 1994-1997 timeframe.
'Alternative' at the time basically still meant 'not on a major label' (and also 'not old'), and Live qualifies through that.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:00 PM on February 22, 2023
And on the mainstream pop channel because the same year Live released Throwing Copper, Aerosmith was in their 'Alicia Sliverstone' in our videos phase, had multiple chart toppers and Bon Jovi had a hit with "Always". Check the pop charts - those guys were still around in 1994-1997 timeframe.
'Alternative' at the time basically still meant 'not on a major label' (and also 'not old'), and Live qualifies through that.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:00 PM on February 22, 2023
90s alt as a radio genre was alternative to Top 40 and Urban formats. White guys with guitars in their 20s.
posted by MattD at 9:03 PM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by MattD at 9:03 PM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
we won't even talk about the degree to which I was too punk for Live
The first time I heard Live was on MTV a few weeks after I went to a hardcore show in which Shelter was on the bill. I remember watching the “I Alone” video and literally my only thought was , jeez, even the mainstream bands are all going hari krishna these days
posted by thivaia at 9:31 PM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
The first time I heard Live was on MTV a few weeks after I went to a hardcore show in which Shelter was on the bill. I remember watching the “I Alone” video and literally my only thought was , jeez, even the mainstream bands are all going hari krishna these days
posted by thivaia at 9:31 PM on February 22, 2023 [3 favorites]
I had a friend back in college whose band got pushed off the opening act bill for some minor late 80's college rock act at The Electric Banana by a pre-Live Live. He was righteously pissed that a bunch of "shitty talentless high schoolers" stole his band's gig.
I think Public Affection, the pre-Live version of Live, played a dance at my high school once. Their first album (only on cassette, not LP) epitomizes what circa 1989, pre-grunge "college rock" sounds like. It's just ironic that the college rock is played by high school boys. Ed's vocals would be just as quietly intense as they were with Live, but instead of grunge influence, it's heavy on 1980s R.E.M. style jangle.
I think the club where they had the gig with The Pixies was the Chameleon in Lancaster, but they were still Public Affection at the time. I think somebody I went to high school with may have been at that concert. I'll have to ask him about it.
posted by jonp72 at 9:36 PM on February 22, 2023
I think Public Affection, the pre-Live version of Live, played a dance at my high school once. Their first album (only on cassette, not LP) epitomizes what circa 1989, pre-grunge "college rock" sounds like. It's just ironic that the college rock is played by high school boys. Ed's vocals would be just as quietly intense as they were with Live, but instead of grunge influence, it's heavy on 1980s R.E.M. style jangle.
I think the club where they had the gig with The Pixies was the Chameleon in Lancaster, but they were still Public Affection at the time. I think somebody I went to high school with may have been at that concert. I'll have to ask him about it.
posted by jonp72 at 9:36 PM on February 22, 2023
Oh no, they probably were that big. The 90s were the Time Of Baggy Jeans. Remember ravers and their JNCOs?
I was in middle school at the peak of this trend and I had a pair of JNCOs so big I could literally fit my math textbook in the back pocket. I wore them to school once, my friends mercilessly mocked me the entire day, and I never wore them again.
posted by skycrashesdown at 10:13 PM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
I was in middle school at the peak of this trend and I had a pair of JNCOs so big I could literally fit my math textbook in the back pocket. I wore them to school once, my friends mercilessly mocked me the entire day, and I never wore them again.
posted by skycrashesdown at 10:13 PM on February 22, 2023 [8 favorites]
placenta falls to the floor
This happens all the time.
It’s detachable.
posted by credulous at 10:33 PM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
This happens all the time.
It’s detachable.
posted by credulous at 10:33 PM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
"Detachable Placenta" is a structurally weird song because the placenta has responsibilities, y'know? The penis can detach off on its merry way because it has managed this situation where it never has to take responsibility for gas exchange or nutrient transport, oh no.
posted by away for regrooving at 11:25 PM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by away for regrooving at 11:25 PM on February 22, 2023 [10 favorites]
I was in middle school at the peak of this trend and I had a pair of JNCOs so big I could literally fit my math textbook in the back pocket. I wore them to school once, my friends mercilessly mocked me the entire day, and I never wore them again.
I was like 18 & had a friend who sewed panels onto her huge pants to make them even huger
one time we stopped at Rocky Rococo's before hitting up our usual all-night diner & she stuck a boxed slice of rectangular pizza in her pocket, to smuggle in, y'know
short while later she reaches into her giant pocket & pulls out... a greasy empty box
shrugs, continues to drink her coffee with a pocket full of pizza
I'll think about this on my deathbed probably
posted by taquito sunrise at 11:43 PM on February 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
I was like 18 & had a friend who sewed panels onto her huge pants to make them even huger
one time we stopped at Rocky Rococo's before hitting up our usual all-night diner & she stuck a boxed slice of rectangular pizza in her pocket, to smuggle in, y'know
short while later she reaches into her giant pocket & pulls out... a greasy empty box
shrugs, continues to drink her coffee with a pocket full of pizza
I'll think about this on my deathbed probably
posted by taquito sunrise at 11:43 PM on February 22, 2023 [11 favorites]
This happens all the time.
It’s detachable.
Man, I might never have seen Live, but I sure as shit saw King Missile. Hot damn, that was a good show.
posted by Ghidorah at 2:35 AM on February 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
It’s detachable.
Man, I might never have seen Live, but I sure as shit saw King Missile. Hot damn, that was a good show.
posted by Ghidorah at 2:35 AM on February 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
I vaguely recall someone here on Metafilter who worked for Google having to specifically code the search engine to recognize the band The The yt .
I still can't get The The to play on my google mini speaker so they they clearly didn't finish the the job.
posted by srboisvert at 2:56 AM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I still can't get The The to play on my google mini speaker so they they clearly didn't finish the the job.
posted by srboisvert at 2:56 AM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
King Missile? Yeah, saw them at the second HFStival in '91, the last one at Lake Fairfax before they outgrew it and started getting too big to be fun. Also appearing, Too Much Joy, a band that I always associate with King Missile because their song Long Haired Guys from England falls into the same kind of goofy rock filing cabinet in my mind. Also appearing, Gang of Four, Robyn Hitchcock, the Ocean Blue, and - I kid you not - The Violent Femmes.
God damn, that was a great show.
posted by Naberius at 7:45 AM on February 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
God damn, that was a great show.
posted by Naberius at 7:45 AM on February 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
Years and years ago, a person connected to the industry told me, "The people who have the skills necessary to make a lot of money from music rarely have the skills necessary to manage a lot of money made from music."
posted by MrJM at 8:09 AM on February 23, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by MrJM at 8:09 AM on February 23, 2023 [8 favorites]
If anything, the placenta falling to the floor only shows the respect the band has for the laws of physics.
In an early demo of the song the placenta glitches out and just sort of vibrates wildly near the delivery table before finally despawning, but they managed to update the engine code before the album went gold
posted by cortex at 8:32 AM on February 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
In an early demo of the song the placenta glitches out and just sort of vibrates wildly near the delivery table before finally despawning, but they managed to update the engine code before the album went gold
posted by cortex at 8:32 AM on February 23, 2023 [4 favorites]
Wow, everyone, this comment thread was a journey. A journey I have enjoyed immensely this fine evening.
I'm just thinking about what a strange universe I live in, where a band I listened to while doing mushrooms in college is now involved in both literal and figurative wire fraud investigations at state and federal levels. Kids, keep an eye out for your Billie Eilishes and Taylor Swifts, and make sure they don't one day go on cross-country bank robbery sprees. Sheesh.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:55 AM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm just thinking about what a strange universe I live in, where a band I listened to while doing mushrooms in college is now involved in both literal and figurative wire fraud investigations at state and federal levels. Kids, keep an eye out for your Billie Eilishes and Taylor Swifts, and make sure they don't one day go on cross-country bank robbery sprees. Sheesh.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:55 AM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty sure that if Taylor Swift was a criminal, she'd either be so subtle about it we'd never suspect the vast criminal empire, or just... Wander into the bank and ask for money and people would give it to her freely
It must be exhausting always rooting for the anti-hero.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:24 AM on February 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
It must be exhausting always rooting for the anti-hero.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:24 AM on February 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
I hated hearing that stupid line about the placenta in that song ever fucking time and it is not misogynistic to think it's a stupid lyric.
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:30 AM on February 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:30 AM on February 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
They should rerelease the song and change it to 'pancreas.' Now that's a lyric we can all enjoy!
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:16 AM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:16 AM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Surprised that Live has gotten so much attention here, but perhaps the demographic fits well. I liked them but not enough to find out what happened to them later; sad to see a good band end with so much animosity, but it certainly isn’t the first time. Interesting that this hasn’t gotten more attention: In fact, one of the former bandmates is a Trump supporter, while another calls himself a “bleeding-heart liberal.”. I have certainly cut myself off from close friends who have been too taken in by Trump and his bullshit.
The placenta discussion is kind of strange; the placenta is a really fascinating organ and does all sorts of things, but can also go seriously off the rails sometimes. It probably deserves its own FPP. I may get around to it eventually but if someone else wants to do it that is cool too!
posted by TedW at 11:42 AM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
The placenta discussion is kind of strange; the placenta is a really fascinating organ and does all sorts of things, but can also go seriously off the rails sometimes. It probably deserves its own FPP. I may get around to it eventually but if someone else wants to do it that is cool too!
posted by TedW at 11:42 AM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
I never really understood what Live was. They seemed to take themselves extremely seriously, but they also had nothing to say, and mostly existed as a Top 40 single production cottage industry. It was as if the members of Foreigner had been bitten by a radioactive REM album.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:45 AM on February 23, 2023 [9 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:45 AM on February 23, 2023 [9 favorites]
I never really understood what Live was.
Based on the article, Live's got a good beat (no pun intended) and you can commit wire fraud to it.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:00 PM on February 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
Based on the article, Live's got a good beat (no pun intended) and you can commit wire fraud to it.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:00 PM on February 23, 2023 [6 favorites]
I never really understood what Live was. They seemed to take themselves extremely seriously, but they also had nothing to say, and mostly existed as a Top 40 single production cottage industry.
Same - I heard the song and thought it was okay when it came out; but soon thought of it as One Of Those Songs that quickly got sucked into use on the soundtracks for show son the CW or the WB or whatever, something that played while Adam Brody or Mischa Barton stared moodily out their windows on The O.C. or something. I also swear I once saw Kurt Browning use it for a figure skating routine.
Also it was literally a full two years before I knew it was called "Lightning Crashes", I thought it was something like "Coming Back Again" or whatever the hell they were singing in the chorus.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:36 PM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Same - I heard the song and thought it was okay when it came out; but soon thought of it as One Of Those Songs that quickly got sucked into use on the soundtracks for show son the CW or the WB or whatever, something that played while Adam Brody or Mischa Barton stared moodily out their windows on The O.C. or something. I also swear I once saw Kurt Browning use it for a figure skating routine.
Also it was literally a full two years before I knew it was called "Lightning Crashes", I thought it was something like "Coming Back Again" or whatever the hell they were singing in the chorus.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:36 PM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
They seemed to take themselves extremely seriously, but they also had nothing to say,
I was a low grade fan in the early 90s and teenage me thought they were saying something serious. They weren't, but it's a bunch of moody nothing that resonates with teenagers who can't wait to get out of the town they grew up in. I'll give them a pass considering they were also moody teenagers who couldn't wait to get out of York.
This article does make it seem like they were a lot more likable back then.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:48 PM on February 23, 2023
I was a low grade fan in the early 90s and teenage me thought they were saying something serious. They weren't, but it's a bunch of moody nothing that resonates with teenagers who can't wait to get out of the town they grew up in. I'll give them a pass considering they were also moody teenagers who couldn't wait to get out of York.
This article does make it seem like they were a lot more likable back then.
posted by cmfletcher at 12:48 PM on February 23, 2023
let's remember to be kind to our moody teenagers
I do this myself: judge things that seemed vital and/or true and deeply meaningful in hindsight
if we get something good, from anything, that's great. this has nothing to do specifically with Live, I just think it's easy to forget that some things don't have to matter for our entire lives, it's okay if it mattered (a lot) for a month or a year
posted by elkevelvet at 1:27 PM on February 23, 2023 [10 favorites]
I do this myself: judge things that seemed vital and/or true and deeply meaningful in hindsight
if we get something good, from anything, that's great. this has nothing to do specifically with Live, I just think it's easy to forget that some things don't have to matter for our entire lives, it's okay if it mattered (a lot) for a month or a year
posted by elkevelvet at 1:27 PM on February 23, 2023 [10 favorites]
I grew up in York. Went to multiple HFStivals. Aside from the ridiculous placenta side-conversation, this thread's great. I never really glommed onto Live, but I gave them a lot of credit for getting the word out nationally that York sucked. I was in a very-much-York-PA band from like, 2002-2006ish? It was kind of funny watching bands trying real hard to do well in central PA, when the reality was, you had to get the fuck out of there if you really wanted anything to happen.
I'm still friends online with a photographer from the York Daily Record, and over the years, along with other local news bits, he'd post the occasional update on this weird incubator space that the non-Ed members of Live were trying to create back in York, and my initial reaction was a grudging respect for them using their success to try and do something good back home.
But then the stories would come out that made it evident that whatever they were doing wasn't really catching on, it was kind of a money pit, nothing was really happening there, and all of the sudden, it was just this absolutely horrible, horrible legal mess. And now, this Rolling Stone article! I struggled to read it, because it was just so dumb. Not the writing, but as called out before - the hubris. Just... an almost worst-case scenario of the kind of entertainment industry predator/remora that seemed especially prevalent in the 90s/00s, slowly getting exposed through VH1 Behind the Music horror stories, and somehow these lunks just fell for it.
Back to the article, there's a quote from some contemporary critique:
I revisited a few tracks since the article came out. Still not my jam, but I can see how they could translate into a pretty great live show. Shame about all the dumb drama.
posted by Leviathant at 1:33 PM on February 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm still friends online with a photographer from the York Daily Record, and over the years, along with other local news bits, he'd post the occasional update on this weird incubator space that the non-Ed members of Live were trying to create back in York, and my initial reaction was a grudging respect for them using their success to try and do something good back home.
But then the stories would come out that made it evident that whatever they were doing wasn't really catching on, it was kind of a money pit, nothing was really happening there, and all of the sudden, it was just this absolutely horrible, horrible legal mess. And now, this Rolling Stone article! I struggled to read it, because it was just so dumb. Not the writing, but as called out before - the hubris. Just... an almost worst-case scenario of the kind of entertainment industry predator/remora that seemed especially prevalent in the 90s/00s, slowly getting exposed through VH1 Behind the Music horror stories, and somehow these lunks just fell for it.
Back to the article, there's a quote from some contemporary critique:
WHEN IT COMES to Nineties alt-rock bands, Live falls somewhere between Matchbox 20 and Creed on the cool meter. Even at the peak of their popularity, when they were packing arenas, critics had virtually no use for them. “Song after song depended on the same groove — soft verse, LOUD CHORUS,” read a typical concert review in a May 1995 issue of Rolling Stone. “But unlike, say, the Pixies’ blare, Live’s volume twiddling felt as predictable as a gag in a Jim Carrey movie.”In recent years, I've come to accept that the cork sniffing of the nineties was pretty fucking stupid. There's a lot of music I didn't listen to at the time because of the pervasive attitude above - "Despite their enormous popularity and success, these people aren't worth your time." How interesting that a couple of paragraphs later, it talks about the band bonding over Joy Division, The Cure, Depeche Mode - and later worked with a guy from Talking Heads. Look, on paper, that sounds like a group of people I totally would have hung out with.
I revisited a few tracks since the article came out. Still not my jam, but I can see how they could translate into a pretty great live show. Shame about all the dumb drama.
posted by Leviathant at 1:33 PM on February 23, 2023 [5 favorites]
I also swear I once saw Kurt Browning use it for a figure skating routine.
He did.
From my YouTube search results, it looks like he performed it at the Battle of the Sexes 1997, 1995 Rock n' Roll Figure Skating Championships, and the 1995 Challenge of Champions, so it was part of his repertoire for a while.
posted by creepygirl at 1:42 PM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
He did.
From my YouTube search results, it looks like he performed it at the Battle of the Sexes 1997, 1995 Rock n' Roll Figure Skating Championships, and the 1995 Challenge of Champions, so it was part of his repertoire for a while.
posted by creepygirl at 1:42 PM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Placenta On Ice!
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:13 PM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:13 PM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
I liked them but not enough to find out what happened to them later; sad to see a good band end with so much animosity, but it certainly isn’t the first time. Interesting that this hasn’t gotten more attention: In fact, one of the former bandmates is a Trump supporter, while another calls himself a “bleeding-heart liberal.”
The band is a bunch of white guys from York, Pennsylvania. It would be very much against the odds if you didn't have at least one Trump supporter in the bunch.
posted by jonp72 at 2:57 PM on February 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
The band is a bunch of white guys from York, Pennsylvania. It would be very much against the odds if you didn't have at least one Trump supporter in the bunch.
posted by jonp72 at 2:57 PM on February 23, 2023 [3 favorites]
Live is exactly the band I have used, for literally 30 years, as the canonical example of The Worst Band Ever. Even worse than Bush or Pearl Jam.
My college's student government spent their entertainment budget on a huge concert by them, when we could have easily had countless other bands with actual talent. An aging Hoodoo Gurus. Portishead. Built To Spill. Reverend Horton Heat. Crowded House. Afghan Whigs. Hole (groan). Weezer. Stereolab. Shudder To Think. Poster Children. The f---ing POSTER CHILDREN. Rose woulda torn the roof off that basketball arena. All of these bands were touring at the time and were probably the same price as Live. Ugh.
posted by intermod at 6:57 PM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
My college's student government spent their entertainment budget on a huge concert by them, when we could have easily had countless other bands with actual talent. An aging Hoodoo Gurus. Portishead. Built To Spill. Reverend Horton Heat. Crowded House. Afghan Whigs. Hole (groan). Weezer. Stereolab. Shudder To Think. Poster Children. The f---ing POSTER CHILDREN. Rose woulda torn the roof off that basketball arena. All of these bands were touring at the time and were probably the same price as Live. Ugh.
posted by intermod at 6:57 PM on February 23, 2023 [2 favorites]
Full Disclaimer, this comment was written by someone who has used eschaton, lysing, hyperbolic trajectory, and other similar words when the song has called for them, and will absolutely do so again if necessary.
Okay I tried my best to write a verse incorporating those words but it just came out really NSFW so I’ll tuck it behind a fold.
She sliced clean through Schenectady
On a hyperbolic trajectory
Like an enzyme lysing its substrate
She rode smooth as a Peloton
And could bring on the eschaton
With the way that she fingered a prostate
posted by dephlogisticated at 8:27 PM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Okay I tried my best to write a verse incorporating those words but it just came out really NSFW so I’ll tuck it behind a fold.
She sliced clean through Schenectady
On a hyperbolic trajectory
Like an enzyme lysing its substrate
She rode smooth as a Peloton
And could bring on the eschaton
With the way that she fingered a prostate
posted by dephlogisticated at 8:27 PM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Placenta On Ice!
There it is... Alright, shut it down. That's the end of the thread.
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 10:09 PM on February 23, 2023
There it is... Alright, shut it down. That's the end of the thread.
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 10:09 PM on February 23, 2023
That's the end of the thread.
Not until Tom Cruise finishes it.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:05 PM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Not until Tom Cruise finishes it.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:05 PM on February 23, 2023 [1 favorite]
Okay I tried my best to write a verse incorporating those words but it just came out really NSFW so I’ll tuck it behind a fold.
[snip of behind-the-fold lyrics]...
I can't top this. They did originally, after all, appear in separate songs.
posted by tclark at 7:56 AM on February 24, 2023
[snip of behind-the-fold lyrics]...
I can't top this. They did originally, after all, appear in separate songs.
posted by tclark at 7:56 AM on February 24, 2023
Not until Tom Cruise finishes it.
You ever notice something funny about his teeth?
posted by Reverend John at 7:24 AM on February 25, 2023
You ever notice something funny about his teeth?
posted by Reverend John at 7:24 AM on February 25, 2023
My art has been commended as being strongly placental, which bothers some men. The word itself makes some men uncomfortable. Placenta.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:17 AM on February 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 9:17 AM on February 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
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posted by GallonOfAlan at 8:10 AM on February 22, 2023 [4 favorites]