Eventually even the worst stuff crosses the US-Canada border
June 6, 2023 8:27 AM Subscribe
Inside the fundamentalist Christian movement that wants to remake Canadian politics. TW: anti-trans comments, suicide
Yes, Canada is no stranger to populism, but it's getting louder, stronger, and worse.
Yes, Canada is no stranger to populism, but it's getting louder, stronger, and worse.
Scholars say reconstructionist ideals — often linked to Christian nationalism, the idea that the United States is a Christian country...The false idea. The willfully misinformed idea. Call it what it is; do not give these fascists even an inch of ground.
posted by xedrik at 8:38 AM on June 6, 2023 [50 favorites]
Once again, we get object examples of the paradox of tolerance, and why tolerance as peace treaty is important to understand. Note that they demand that their "rights" be honored while they attack others.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:38 AM on June 6, 2023 [15 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:38 AM on June 6, 2023 [15 favorites]
Oh Fizz, same here in Kingston. Giant trucks with Confederate flags (as a native Southerner this REALLY pisses me off), Fuck Trudeau bumper stickers, the whole lot. Again, I would never say that Canada hasn't always had racism, but since 2016, shitty folks here sure got emboldened by a certain election down South. They joined their American comrades in deciding to display just how shitty they can be.
One of our local bakeries got utterly vilified when they did something so innocuous as put a Happy Pride post on the IG/FB feeds. They had to take it down the comments from area folks were so so gross.
I am legit concerned about our annual Pride Parade here in town. I never used to be.
posted by Kitteh at 8:44 AM on June 6, 2023 [22 favorites]
One of our local bakeries got utterly vilified when they did something so innocuous as put a Happy Pride post on the IG/FB feeds. They had to take it down the comments from area folks were so so gross.
I am legit concerned about our annual Pride Parade here in town. I never used to be.
posted by Kitteh at 8:44 AM on June 6, 2023 [22 favorites]
Also, see this old MetaFilter post I made on Eza Levant and Rebel Media. So much of this stuff has grown out of these hateful and idiots.
posted by Fizz at 8:46 AM on June 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 8:46 AM on June 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
"I live in the Niagara region of Ontario and we still have weirdos driving around with giant Canadian flags..."
I'm down the road now, but my hometown is in Niagara, and yes, they still have weekly anti-vaxx protests downtown and on the highway overpass. (Guys, it's over. You *won*. Get over yourselves.)
I enjoyed growing up there, and every now and then I think it would be nice to maybe go back, but then I see these yomyocks with their flags and am quickly disabused of that idea. I've been successfully chased out. The town I grew up in is long, long gone. I'm embarrassed to say that I'm from there, as I don't want to be mistaken for being one of that clan.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:47 AM on June 6, 2023 [15 favorites]
I'm down the road now, but my hometown is in Niagara, and yes, they still have weekly anti-vaxx protests downtown and on the highway overpass. (Guys, it's over. You *won*. Get over yourselves.)
I enjoyed growing up there, and every now and then I think it would be nice to maybe go back, but then I see these yomyocks with their flags and am quickly disabused of that idea. I've been successfully chased out. The town I grew up in is long, long gone. I'm embarrassed to say that I'm from there, as I don't want to be mistaken for being one of that clan.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:47 AM on June 6, 2023 [15 favorites]
I also now equate Canadian flags on trucks with hate. So good job bigots.
posted by Fizz at 8:49 AM on June 6, 2023 [33 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 8:49 AM on June 6, 2023 [33 favorites]
I also now equate Canadian flags on trucks with hate. So good job bigots.
This is something that pisses Shepherd off too. Now he runs with the assumption that Canadian flag on car/lawn/etc = awful garbage person.
posted by Kitteh at 8:55 AM on June 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
This is something that pisses Shepherd off too. Now he runs with the assumption that Canadian flag on car/lawn/etc = awful garbage person.
posted by Kitteh at 8:55 AM on June 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
The convoyista mentality-- antivax, flags, f**k Trudeau signs, and all -- is still going strong throughout the Ottawa Valley. But a lot of the valley was never very far from that before the convoy anyways, with all the "Back off government, this is my land" signs that have been up for years.
posted by fimbulvetr at 9:06 AM on June 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 9:06 AM on June 6, 2023 [6 favorites]
I also now equate Canadian flags on trucks with hate. So good job bigots.
We always put up a Canadian flag on our porch for Canada Day. We did put it up last year, but we really had to think about it first. Weird to have your national flag associated with hate.
posted by fimbulvetr at 9:13 AM on June 6, 2023 [12 favorites]
We always put up a Canadian flag on our porch for Canada Day. We did put it up last year, but we really had to think about it first. Weird to have your national flag associated with hate.
posted by fimbulvetr at 9:13 AM on June 6, 2023 [12 favorites]
The US has provided models to international fascists for a long time, but somehow seeing the rise of domestic Christofascists is even worse.
posted by box at 9:15 AM on June 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by box at 9:15 AM on June 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
I know a few of us Canadians have referenced Ontario in this discussion thus far but Alberta is actually far far worse when it comes to hateful conservative politics, specifically the UCP, United Conservative Party. They're also trying to restrict certain types of education (hint: anything about lgtbq/sexuality, history of colonialism, indigenous history, black history, etc), put bans on certain programs, etc. They looked at the recipe of hate being used in the USA and are pushing that shit down the throats of Canadians using similar propaganda media apparatus.
posted by Fizz at 9:26 AM on June 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 9:26 AM on June 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
A lot of these crazies tried to get on school boards during the last election cycle. Luckily few succeeded, but they are now organising as 'concerned parents' and disrupting board meetings. Keep an eye on these things, folks.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 9:41 AM on June 6, 2023 [20 favorites]
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 9:41 AM on June 6, 2023 [20 favorites]
Keep an eye on these things, folks.
They also tried to take over the Law Society of Ontario (basically, the bar association for Ontario) recently. One of the candidates who ran as part of a right-wing takeover slate has worked extensively with Faith Goldy (a Nazi who spun out of the Ezra Levant incubator of Rebel Media) and represented Marc Lemire (of the Heritage Front, one of Ernst Zundel's front men) on a pro bono basis.
It's not that these things are net new to Canada. At all.
I've followed the far right here for a very long time, and what they're "importing" de novo are effective strategies and tactics. It's that coalescence between old-school far-right types (actual sieg-heiling Nazis and other traditional white-power types), and conservative Christians of various denominations including the usual Evangelical and Catholic suspects, and non-religious "Fuck Trudeau" types that you might fairly describe as libertarian-esque bogans. It's a fucked-up syncretic mixture that's as home-grown as anything, but now it's plugged into a mutually-beneficial network that nurtures and inflames it.
Right now, their favourite accelerant is transphobia, and they're trying to burn the place down.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:00 AM on June 6, 2023 [33 favorites]
They also tried to take over the Law Society of Ontario (basically, the bar association for Ontario) recently. One of the candidates who ran as part of a right-wing takeover slate has worked extensively with Faith Goldy (a Nazi who spun out of the Ezra Levant incubator of Rebel Media) and represented Marc Lemire (of the Heritage Front, one of Ernst Zundel's front men) on a pro bono basis.
It's not that these things are net new to Canada. At all.
I've followed the far right here for a very long time, and what they're "importing" de novo are effective strategies and tactics. It's that coalescence between old-school far-right types (actual sieg-heiling Nazis and other traditional white-power types), and conservative Christians of various denominations including the usual Evangelical and Catholic suspects, and non-religious "Fuck Trudeau" types that you might fairly describe as libertarian-esque bogans. It's a fucked-up syncretic mixture that's as home-grown as anything, but now it's plugged into a mutually-beneficial network that nurtures and inflames it.
Right now, their favourite accelerant is transphobia, and they're trying to burn the place down.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:00 AM on June 6, 2023 [33 favorites]
What dismays me the most is that Poilievre has been quite happy to encourage these nuts, as he did with the Ottawa occupation.
posted by Artful Codger at 10:32 AM on June 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Artful Codger at 10:32 AM on June 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
What dismays me the most is that Poilievre has been quite happy to encourage these nuts, as he did with the Ottawa occupation.
Anything to get the votes they need to retain power. Power = money and that keeps them far enough way from these psychos that they perceive that as a form of security or safety. It's FALSE b/c thats not how extremism will play out. But, try telling them that.
posted by Fizz at 10:37 AM on June 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Anything to get the votes they need to retain power. Power = money and that keeps them far enough way from these psychos that they perceive that as a form of security or safety. It's FALSE b/c thats not how extremism will play out. But, try telling them that.
posted by Fizz at 10:37 AM on June 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
Some further dot-connecting, courtesy of Canadaland.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 10:43 AM on June 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 10:43 AM on June 6, 2023 [5 favorites]
Amid all of the *gestures vaguely* that is Alberta these days, I've also noticed an uptick in street preachers, and especially the very vocally anti-lgbtq ones, like I haven't seen since the early 00s.
There have always been a few guys with megaphones pleading with us all to love Jesus (but not like that!) around downtown and old strathcona. But recently I've run into more that are openly peddling homophobic and transphobic conspiracies, and a couple of weeks ago there was a guy ranting on the street corner that people like me are going to be swept away in a cleansing fire, while the city was blanketed in wildfire smoke (really gave Jasper ave an apocalyptic vibe). I swear some of them are even using the same signs as 2005 like they just came out of hibernation or something.
My workplace sponsors a booth at the farmer's market for bland corporate messaging during Ft. Saskatchewan's pride week and, this year, the volunteers were warned that the organizers were getting a lot of hateful comments online and to be prepared for that. Something they have never felt the need to warn anyone about before.
posted by selenized at 10:45 AM on June 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
There have always been a few guys with megaphones pleading with us all to love Jesus (but not like that!) around downtown and old strathcona. But recently I've run into more that are openly peddling homophobic and transphobic conspiracies, and a couple of weeks ago there was a guy ranting on the street corner that people like me are going to be swept away in a cleansing fire, while the city was blanketed in wildfire smoke (really gave Jasper ave an apocalyptic vibe). I swear some of them are even using the same signs as 2005 like they just came out of hibernation or something.
My workplace sponsors a booth at the farmer's market for bland corporate messaging during Ft. Saskatchewan's pride week and, this year, the volunteers were warned that the organizers were getting a lot of hateful comments online and to be prepared for that. Something they have never felt the need to warn anyone about before.
posted by selenized at 10:45 AM on June 6, 2023 [9 favorites]
It's a little bit rougher for them to be blatant about it in Canada because there are actual laws and penalties about straight-up hate speech, so mostly what you hear in public is coded speech and dogwhistles, but the bigotry and fascism is all there just the same.
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:23 AM on June 6, 2023
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:23 AM on June 6, 2023
the type of conservative who attends the Roman Catholic Church in my town has been pretty quiet about the F**K TRUDEAU decal on the truck across the street from the front steps of the church, visible to allcomers leaving the service each Sunday
that same person is actively expressing "strong concerns" about the way kids in high school want to express their sexuality
hypocrites and cowards, all of them. oh, and bullies. my level of disgust with where Canada is heading is the level you reach when you had stupid, naive assumptions about something and you have to come to terms with how stupid and naive you are/were. Not easy. All I can say is, there are still millions of us who believe in something better and you have to fight in the best way you can. Never give up without a fight.
posted by elkevelvet at 12:02 PM on June 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
that same person is actively expressing "strong concerns" about the way kids in high school want to express their sexuality
hypocrites and cowards, all of them. oh, and bullies. my level of disgust with where Canada is heading is the level you reach when you had stupid, naive assumptions about something and you have to come to terms with how stupid and naive you are/were. Not easy. All I can say is, there are still millions of us who believe in something better and you have to fight in the best way you can. Never give up without a fight.
posted by elkevelvet at 12:02 PM on June 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
I also now equate Canadian flags on trucks with hate. So good job bigots.
This is something that pisses Shepherd off too. Now he runs with the assumption that Canadian flag on car/lawn/etc = awful garbage person.
There's a small town on the way from Toronto to the Bruce Peninsula that's motto is "Canada's most patriotic town" or something like that and the place just creeps me out. I don't speed through it but I never stop there either.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:13 PM on June 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
This is something that pisses Shepherd off too. Now he runs with the assumption that Canadian flag on car/lawn/etc = awful garbage person.
There's a small town on the way from Toronto to the Bruce Peninsula that's motto is "Canada's most patriotic town" or something like that and the place just creeps me out. I don't speed through it but I never stop there either.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:13 PM on June 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
The "Fuck Trudeau" thing is prevalent even on the so-called "hippy" West Coast (which was never really true anyway). I don't fault anyone for hiding their pride colours -- these guys are scary. They are cowards, but when they have social license -- in groups or under the cover of anonymity -- they're dangerous. They operating according to precisely the same social dynamic as a lynch mob.
In fact, in the small West Coast town I grew up in, vigilante justice would be unleashed on falsely-accused or suspected nonwhite people and environmentalists routinely. It's not an overstatement to say that this current crop of fanatics, at least on the West Coast, shares bloodlines with the American right-wing, white-supremacist movements that David Niewert has been covering for decades. In some cases it's the same people and their children.
I have always been uncomfortable with patriotism, but yeah, you basically can't fly a flag anymore without getting some sideye. You also can't express a legitimate beef with Trudeau without being very deliberate about distancing yourselves from Poilievre's pet wannabe militias.
posted by klanawa at 12:24 PM on June 6, 2023 [12 favorites]
In fact, in the small West Coast town I grew up in, vigilante justice would be unleashed on falsely-accused or suspected nonwhite people and environmentalists routinely. It's not an overstatement to say that this current crop of fanatics, at least on the West Coast, shares bloodlines with the American right-wing, white-supremacist movements that David Niewert has been covering for decades. In some cases it's the same people and their children.
I have always been uncomfortable with patriotism, but yeah, you basically can't fly a flag anymore without getting some sideye. You also can't express a legitimate beef with Trudeau without being very deliberate about distancing yourselves from Poilievre's pet wannabe militias.
posted by klanawa at 12:24 PM on June 6, 2023 [12 favorites]
Liberty Coalition Canada claims to have helped 110 Christian candidates in municipal and school board elections last year in Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and British Columbia.
While I think municipal elections are important even if a bit vulnerable, I'm glad we got rid of the school board ones. These were straight up bullshit with low single digit participation percentages, too easy to game. I'm glad we let the proper elected officials appoint people to those.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:35 PM on June 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
While I think municipal elections are important even if a bit vulnerable, I'm glad we got rid of the school board ones. These were straight up bullshit with low single digit participation percentages, too easy to game. I'm glad we let the proper elected officials appoint people to those.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 1:35 PM on June 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
I took my Canadian flag down from the house. I used to have it up all the time, but it seems like a bad idea now. There's a renter in the neighbourhood who street parks on my cul de sac, and his beater is one big vanifesto of Fuck Trudeau shit. The last thing I need is someone associating that car with my house.
I hate it that the bigots won on the flag. It's going to take a lot to reclaim it, and I can't do that on my own.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:45 PM on June 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
I hate it that the bigots won on the flag. It's going to take a lot to reclaim it, and I can't do that on my own.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:45 PM on June 6, 2023 [10 favorites]
While I think municipal elections are important even if a bit vulnerable, I'm glad we got rid of the school board ones. These were straight up bullshit with low single digit participation percentages, too easy to game. I'm glad we let the proper elected officials appoint people to those.
I think we do the school board elections at the same time as the municipal one so everyone that votes for their city councillor at least gets the ballot for the school trustee, whether or not they vote for anyone. The other issue is that most voters probably have very little information on the various candidates so it is hard to even make an informed vote.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:14 PM on June 6, 2023
I think we do the school board elections at the same time as the municipal one so everyone that votes for their city councillor at least gets the ballot for the school trustee, whether or not they vote for anyone. The other issue is that most voters probably have very little information on the various candidates so it is hard to even make an informed vote.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:14 PM on June 6, 2023
I think we do the school board elections at the same time as the municipal one so everyone that votes for their city councillor at least gets the ballot for the school trustee, whether or not they vote for anyone. The other issue is that most voters probably have very little information on the various candidates so it is hard to even make an informed vote.
Yeah, I voted for my area's school board trustees last municipal election so maybe not all places in Canada do that? And yes, there was a trustee candidate who was the kind of person who went to these kinds of churches. They lost.
posted by Kitteh at 2:17 PM on June 6, 2023
Yeah, I voted for my area's school board trustees last municipal election so maybe not all places in Canada do that? And yes, there was a trustee candidate who was the kind of person who went to these kinds of churches. They lost.
posted by Kitteh at 2:17 PM on June 6, 2023
‘Culture wars’ candidates for Oregon school boards mostly lost
posted by aleph at 3:17 PM on June 6, 2023
posted by aleph at 3:17 PM on June 6, 2023
The "Fuck Trudeau" thing is prevalent even on the so-called "hippy" West Coast (which was never really true anyway).
Seconding this notion. I graduated high school in 1992 from a podunk Ontario town; a sizeable chunk of the graduating class fucked off to live on a neo-Nazi compound in BC. The 'left coast' of Canada is more fictional than it should be.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 3:17 PM on June 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
Seconding this notion. I graduated high school in 1992 from a podunk Ontario town; a sizeable chunk of the graduating class fucked off to live on a neo-Nazi compound in BC. The 'left coast' of Canada is more fictional than it should be.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 3:17 PM on June 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
You could hang your Canadian flag together with an “In this house we believe” flag?
posted by eviemath at 3:18 PM on June 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by eviemath at 3:18 PM on June 6, 2023 [3 favorites]
I know a few of us Canadians have referenced Ontario in this discussion thus far but Alberta is actually far far worse when it comes to hateful conservative politics, specifically the UCP, United Conservative Party.
Reporting from the ground, and yeah, it is bad. A UCP candidate (well, I guess she wasn't officially UCP at the time of the election - she's been kicked out of caucus, pending what seems to be a weird "second chance/no second chance" policy) who compared trans kids to feces won her riding last week, handily.
The slightly behind the curtains group that appears to be pulling the strings is Take Back Alberta. Somehow, despite having lived here my whole life, I'm apparently someone they need to take it back from.
I'm not sure what the next few years here are going to be like, except I think its going to be a wild ride - there's a huge urban/rural split here now, and I expect the provincial government will continue picking pointless fights with Ottawa and the rest of Canada and generally being unpleasant.
posted by nubs at 5:00 PM on June 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
Reporting from the ground, and yeah, it is bad. A UCP candidate (well, I guess she wasn't officially UCP at the time of the election - she's been kicked out of caucus, pending what seems to be a weird "second chance/no second chance" policy) who compared trans kids to feces won her riding last week, handily.
The slightly behind the curtains group that appears to be pulling the strings is Take Back Alberta. Somehow, despite having lived here my whole life, I'm apparently someone they need to take it back from.
I'm not sure what the next few years here are going to be like, except I think its going to be a wild ride - there's a huge urban/rural split here now, and I expect the provincial government will continue picking pointless fights with Ottawa and the rest of Canada and generally being unpleasant.
posted by nubs at 5:00 PM on June 6, 2023 [4 favorites]
You could hang your Canadian flag together with an “In this house we believe” flag?
I've never particularly wanted to fly a flag, but I'll definitely pair my Canadian flag with the Progress/LGBTQ+ flag as a counter-sign.
The Alberta elections going to the horrible cynical two-faced Smith is definitely concerning.
The provincial "BC Liberals" (a rebranded conservative party, now rebranded as BC United - wtf with all this co-opting words and making a travesty of them? F-ing doublespeak.) has been trying the tactic of pulling further to the cultural right.
It hasn't particularly worked, but now I'm seriously worried at the federal level if Liberals and NDP split votes and let a conservative win some extra ridings.
posted by porpoise at 7:53 PM on June 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
I've never particularly wanted to fly a flag, but I'll definitely pair my Canadian flag with the Progress/LGBTQ+ flag as a counter-sign.
The Alberta elections going to the horrible cynical two-faced Smith is definitely concerning.
The provincial "BC Liberals" (a rebranded conservative party, now rebranded as BC United - wtf with all this co-opting words and making a travesty of them? F-ing doublespeak.) has been trying the tactic of pulling further to the cultural right.
It hasn't particularly worked, but now I'm seriously worried at the federal level if Liberals and NDP split votes and let a conservative win some extra ridings.
posted by porpoise at 7:53 PM on June 6, 2023 [1 favorite]
As a USAn, I apologize for being a source of contagion. I know Canada has their own home-grown idjuts, but it's way out of control here to the south of you.
Weird to have your national flag associated with hate.
That it is. I grew up saluting the flag, and I was taught the rules of handling the flag with due respect. I respect, but it's not a fetish. Because I respect what the flag stands for, for me it was a truly significant act that the flag was burned in protest of the Viet Nam war.
People that wear wife-beaters with the confederate flag on the front US flag on the back and halter tops with short-shorts are assholes. Rules are never to be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery.
I despise most of the flag wavers I see, and not just because of their politics. Two huge flags on either side of a dually truck, tattered and filthy. A flag torn from the top of the pole and the tip dragging behind (RAM pickup, of course.) Tons of muddy bumper stickers. Then there's the sad flag hung out on the lawn, again tattered from inclement weather. Lowering the flag at night is an ultimate sign of respect for Old Glory. Respect says if the flag is to be left aloft after dark, it should be lit.
You could hang your Canadian flag together with an “In this house we believe” flag?
If you can do it safely, kudos to you. If I could claim back the American flag, I'd do it. I don't have the guts to put a rainbow flag out alone, for fear of retaliation. If I put it under an American flag, I'm pretty sure there would be a broken window, if not gun shots.
posted by BlueHorse at 8:59 PM on June 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
Weird to have your national flag associated with hate.
That it is. I grew up saluting the flag, and I was taught the rules of handling the flag with due respect. I respect, but it's not a fetish. Because I respect what the flag stands for, for me it was a truly significant act that the flag was burned in protest of the Viet Nam war.
People that wear wife-beaters with the confederate flag on the front US flag on the back and halter tops with short-shorts are assholes. Rules are never to be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery.
I despise most of the flag wavers I see, and not just because of their politics. Two huge flags on either side of a dually truck, tattered and filthy. A flag torn from the top of the pole and the tip dragging behind (RAM pickup, of course.) Tons of muddy bumper stickers. Then there's the sad flag hung out on the lawn, again tattered from inclement weather. Lowering the flag at night is an ultimate sign of respect for Old Glory. Respect says if the flag is to be left aloft after dark, it should be lit.
You could hang your Canadian flag together with an “In this house we believe” flag?
If you can do it safely, kudos to you. If I could claim back the American flag, I'd do it. I don't have the guts to put a rainbow flag out alone, for fear of retaliation. If I put it under an American flag, I'm pretty sure there would be a broken window, if not gun shots.
posted by BlueHorse at 8:59 PM on June 6, 2023 [2 favorites]
I know Canada has their own home-grown idjuts, but it's way out of control here to the south of you.
> I love this country but more and more its just Diet America (Now with 100% more HATE!). Ugh.
> I'm not sure what the next few years here are going to be like, except I think its going to be a wild ride - there's a huge urban/rural split here now, and I expect the provincial government will continue picking pointless fights with Ottawa and the rest of Canada and generally being unpleasant.
for a taste, see florida (some frontline reporting re: 'fascism on the ground' at the 48 minute mark).
posted by kliuless at 5:32 AM on June 7, 2023
> I love this country but more and more its just Diet America (Now with 100% more HATE!). Ugh.
> I'm not sure what the next few years here are going to be like, except I think its going to be a wild ride - there's a huge urban/rural split here now, and I expect the provincial government will continue picking pointless fights with Ottawa and the rest of Canada and generally being unpleasant.
for a taste, see florida (some frontline reporting re: 'fascism on the ground' at the 48 minute mark).
posted by kliuless at 5:32 AM on June 7, 2023
Fundamental Christianity has no reason to exist if not for hate. If it weren't gays, they'd hate someone else. And then someone else after that.
posted by wolpfack at 6:51 AM on June 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by wolpfack at 6:51 AM on June 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
That's the fascist playbook. There's always an out-group that's corrupting the children and must be eliminated. If they succeed in marginalizing that group, they'll take the next group closer to home. The trans, the gays, the Blacks, the indigenous, the disabled, the autistic, the dark haired, they'll come for everyone.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:54 AM on June 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:54 AM on June 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
Fundamental Christianity has no reason to exist if not for hate.
I've always thought it useful to remove the distinction between secular and religious political movements. It doesn't matter whether your movement is nominally about God, ownership of the means of production, race or adherence to some cultural norm, it matters how the sociopolitical machine is structured and how it hooks followers on an emotional level. The thing they all have in common is an "other" that can be marginalized and/or exterminated. (Granted that most left-wing movements posit an enemy that is actually oppressive and exploitative; right-wing movements don't.)
Another thing they all have in common is that when they succeed in exterminating the enemy, the pool of enemies expands and the movement begins to consume itself. But by that time, it's too late.
posted by klanawa at 11:48 AM on June 7, 2023
I've always thought it useful to remove the distinction between secular and religious political movements. It doesn't matter whether your movement is nominally about God, ownership of the means of production, race or adherence to some cultural norm, it matters how the sociopolitical machine is structured and how it hooks followers on an emotional level. The thing they all have in common is an "other" that can be marginalized and/or exterminated. (Granted that most left-wing movements posit an enemy that is actually oppressive and exploitative; right-wing movements don't.)
Another thing they all have in common is that when they succeed in exterminating the enemy, the pool of enemies expands and the movement begins to consume itself. But by that time, it's too late.
posted by klanawa at 11:48 AM on June 7, 2023
Weird to have your national flag associated with hate.
English person here. Weird not to I think.
I'm sorry that people are misappropriating your flag. One thing I've always enjoyed is seeing people outside Canada with a maple leaf displayed somewhere on their clothes or bag. It's so enjoyable to see nice people displaying unabashed love for their home politely.
posted by plonkee at 2:26 PM on June 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
English person here. Weird not to I think.
I'm sorry that people are misappropriating your flag. One thing I've always enjoyed is seeing people outside Canada with a maple leaf displayed somewhere on their clothes or bag. It's so enjoyable to see nice people displaying unabashed love for their home politely.
posted by plonkee at 2:26 PM on June 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
One thing I've always enjoyed is seeing people outside Canada with a maple leaf displayed somewhere on their clothes or bag. It's so enjoyable to see nice people displaying unabashed love for their home politely.
When I've traveled abroad, wearing the maple leaf has been more about trying to not be mis-identified as American than anything else. I'd like to think that displaying it outside the country has a different connotation than the displays happening here now, but I'd really have to think about displaying it in any context right now.
posted by nubs at 4:04 PM on June 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
When I've traveled abroad, wearing the maple leaf has been more about trying to not be mis-identified as American than anything else. I'd like to think that displaying it outside the country has a different connotation than the displays happening here now, but I'd really have to think about displaying it in any context right now.
posted by nubs at 4:04 PM on June 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
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And it doesn't just stop at religious fundamentalism. It's also very much about the same kind of ugly corporate profiteering and abuse of political power that we're seeing south of our border. They're also wanting to gut our socialized health care. See Doug Ford's plans to privatize healthcare in Ontario. I love this country but more and more its just Diet America (Now with 100% more HATE!). Ugh.
posted by Fizz at 8:36 AM on June 6, 2023 [21 favorites]