Choice of shoes on the deck of an almost 400 year old ship?
August 11, 2023 1:26 PM Subscribe
395 years ago today, the warship Vasa sank in Stockholm harbor on her maiden voyage, after sailing just a short distance. Found in the late 1950s and raised in 1961 after 333 years, the ship now rests in the Vasa Museum. The museum has a series of videos showing the interior of the ship, answering questions such as why bowling shoes are the preferred footwear onboard Vasa, how the interior spaces are believed to have been used, and what the plans for the future is in order to preserve the ship.
I saw the ship in 1984, in a very damp, dim space; but I know it best from a 1962 article in the National Geographic. Can't find that online, but here's another, a 2019 Mental Floss article about it.
posted by Rash at 1:56 PM on August 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Rash at 1:56 PM on August 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’ve just visited a couple of weeks ago during a vacation. If you get the chance to spend time in Stockholm, definitely plan a few hours for the museum. This is, by far, the most impressive historical exhibit I have ever seen.
That said, I’ve found it both haunting and funny that tech projects used to go wrong for much the same reasons as they do today… there seem to be things that don’t ever change.
Stakeholders, listen to the techies.
posted by uncle harold at 1:56 PM on August 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
That said, I’ve found it both haunting and funny that tech projects used to go wrong for much the same reasons as they do today… there seem to be things that don’t ever change.
Stakeholders, listen to the techies.
posted by uncle harold at 1:56 PM on August 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
I was thinking there was a British ship that capsized and sank because the King designed it and overloaded it with cannons, but I evidently got mixed up and it was the Vasa all along.
posted by jamjam at 2:02 PM on August 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by jamjam at 2:02 PM on August 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I’ve found it both haunting and funny that tech projects used to go wrong for much the same reasons as they do today
Indeed! The failure of the Vasa was a case study of what not to do in my engineering school 20 years ago.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:03 PM on August 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Indeed! The failure of the Vasa was a case study of what not to do in my engineering school 20 years ago.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:03 PM on August 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
I was thinking there was a British ship that capsized and sank because the King designed it and overloaded it with cannons, but I evidently got mixed up and it was the Vasa all along.
you might be thinking of the Mary Rose but it was in service for 30 years
posted by Ultracrepidarian at 2:26 PM on August 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
you might be thinking of the Mary Rose but it was in service for 30 years
posted by Ultracrepidarian at 2:26 PM on August 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
a British ship that capsized and sank because the King designed it and overloaded it with cannons
That would be Henry VIII's Mary Rose, sunk 19 July 1545 ~80 years earlier than the Vasa. "to much foly ... for she was laden with much ordinaunce, and the portes left open, which were low, & the great ordinaunce unbreached, so that when the ship should turne, the water entered, and sodainly she sanke". She had indeed been in commission for 30 years but had been more recently substantially remodelled and 'enhanced'.
posted by BobTheScientist at 2:31 PM on August 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
That would be Henry VIII's Mary Rose, sunk 19 July 1545 ~80 years earlier than the Vasa. "to much foly ... for she was laden with much ordinaunce, and the portes left open, which were low, & the great ordinaunce unbreached, so that when the ship should turne, the water entered, and sodainly she sanke". She had indeed been in commission for 30 years but had been more recently substantially remodelled and 'enhanced'.
posted by BobTheScientist at 2:31 PM on August 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yes, seeing the Vasa in person is mindblowing and the accompanying exhibits in the museum are very well done.
>>That said, I’ve found it both haunting and funny that tech projects used to go wrong for much the same reasons as they do today… there seem to be things that don’t ever change.
>>Stakeholders, listen to the techies.
Completely agree, it's very hard to see and learn about the Vasa and not come to some conclusions about wealth, power, hubris and project management.
But it's also a story about the marketing of history: years before I knew the details, we had a little tray with a picture of the Vasa in full sail on it that my wife had picked up on a work trip to Sweden. For years we used it to serve cheese and crackers, tea etc, oblivious. If I hadn't gone to Stockholm myself and saw the ship, it's quite possible I would have never known the history.
The story of the inquest post-sinking is as fascinating as any other part, in addition to the fact that the king you know, guided and approved the design, the fact that there was a war going on meant the government couldn't really punish any of the main players because they needed them to keep fighting.
Or as the article above puts it: "In the end, no one was officially blamed or punished, and all of those questioned were eventually promoted."
Now if that isn't a 2023 parable as well, i don't know what is!
posted by jeremias at 3:21 PM on August 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
>>That said, I’ve found it both haunting and funny that tech projects used to go wrong for much the same reasons as they do today… there seem to be things that don’t ever change.
>>Stakeholders, listen to the techies.
Completely agree, it's very hard to see and learn about the Vasa and not come to some conclusions about wealth, power, hubris and project management.
But it's also a story about the marketing of history: years before I knew the details, we had a little tray with a picture of the Vasa in full sail on it that my wife had picked up on a work trip to Sweden. For years we used it to serve cheese and crackers, tea etc, oblivious. If I hadn't gone to Stockholm myself and saw the ship, it's quite possible I would have never known the history.
The story of the inquest post-sinking is as fascinating as any other part, in addition to the fact that the king you know, guided and approved the design, the fact that there was a war going on meant the government couldn't really punish any of the main players because they needed them to keep fighting.
Or as the article above puts it: "In the end, no one was officially blamed or punished, and all of those questioned were eventually promoted."
Now if that isn't a 2023 parable as well, i don't know what is!
posted by jeremias at 3:21 PM on August 11, 2023 [7 favorites]
The Mary Rose also has a museum, it partly survived, but is much less intact than the Vasa.
posted by BungaDunga at 3:49 PM on August 11, 2023
posted by BungaDunga at 3:49 PM on August 11, 2023
why bowling shoes are the preferred footwear onboard Vasa
Ohhh, I thought the original sailors used some sort of proto-"bowling shoe"...
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:54 PM on August 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
Ohhh, I thought the original sailors used some sort of proto-"bowling shoe"...
posted by Greg_Ace at 3:54 PM on August 11, 2023 [4 favorites]
The Vasamuseet is really something and well worth a trip if you are in Stockholm. One of my top 10 museums, and I’ve seen some museums.
If you are in Stockholm, there used to be a creepy puppet museum, too. See that and find out if you can escape alive.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:10 PM on August 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
If you are in Stockholm, there used to be a creepy puppet museum, too. See that and find out if you can escape alive.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:10 PM on August 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
Sperry Topsiders are always on-point, yachtwise.
posted by Artful Codger at 4:17 PM on August 11, 2023
posted by Artful Codger at 4:17 PM on August 11, 2023
Bowling shoes? That’s wild
Makes sense, of you think about it in terms of not scuffing up a valuable wood surface…
posted by mhoye at 5:08 PM on August 11, 2023
Makes sense, of you think about it in terms of not scuffing up a valuable wood surface…
posted by mhoye at 5:08 PM on August 11, 2023
I loved this museum!
posted by CPAGirl at 6:22 PM on August 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by CPAGirl at 6:22 PM on August 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
Bowling shoes? That’s wild
Imagine the thunder of a cannonball rolling from bow to stern followed by the clatter of belaying pins, the hearty cheers of the crew, and the clanking together of tankers of grog.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:50 PM on August 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
Imagine the thunder of a cannonball rolling from bow to stern followed by the clatter of belaying pins, the hearty cheers of the crew, and the clanking together of tankers of grog.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:50 PM on August 11, 2023 [6 favorites]
We saw it over fifteen years ago and I still recall the breathtaking view of looking up at that enormous stern. Unforgettable. I recall a poster in the gift shop with an image of the Vasa sailing with the caption "she was the most powerful ship in the world...for fifteen minutes"
posted by Ber at 8:19 PM on August 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Ber at 8:19 PM on August 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
It took me way too many readthroughs of this post on FP to realize I was on the blue and not the green.
The scary thing is that it seemed like a perfectly reasonable thing for someone to be asking about, at least to my mind.
posted by jferg at 9:24 PM on August 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
The scary thing is that it seemed like a perfectly reasonable thing for someone to be asking about, at least to my mind.
posted by jferg at 9:24 PM on August 11, 2023 [3 favorites]
Holy cow, we were at the Vasamuseet yesterday. Timely post! The whole place is truly fascinating. If you ever get a chance to visit, go! It’s well worth it.
posted by caution live frogs at 1:33 AM on August 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by caution live frogs at 1:33 AM on August 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Scotland’s Great Michael is interesting to consider in this category. Completed 1512 she had twice the displacement of The Mary Rose - but did require a significant proportion of the country’s oak trees. Not as big as Vasa however!
posted by rongorongo at 5:06 AM on August 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by rongorongo at 5:06 AM on August 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
We spent nearly a half day there. It took over 300 years to go like 1500 yards. They floated it from dry dock across to the castle to arm it. It sailed a tiny bit, sank, and when they raised it in the 50s it went right back to the location of the original Drydock where it sits.
It is honestly a gorgeous museum. It's a once in a life time up there with the eifel tower etc. We bought a huge coffee table book which never goes out of rotation and I took probably 500 photos while in there.
posted by chasles at 5:17 AM on August 12, 2023
It is honestly a gorgeous museum. It's a once in a life time up there with the eifel tower etc. We bought a huge coffee table book which never goes out of rotation and I took probably 500 photos while in there.
posted by chasles at 5:17 AM on August 12, 2023
I visited this in the late 1990s and was amazed. The *smell* of the giant thing, standing within a vast building! Walking around and around the different levels gave me the feeling of a portable city.
Plus someone tacked up a photo of Arnold Schwarzenegger as Conan on the wall, to, um, illustrate Vikings?
posted by doctornemo at 8:23 AM on August 12, 2023
Plus someone tacked up a photo of Arnold Schwarzenegger as Conan on the wall, to, um, illustrate Vikings?
posted by doctornemo at 8:23 AM on August 12, 2023
My parents went to Europe in the mid-1970s and brought me back a children's book about the Vasa (picture the ship with eyes and a smile)
The museum has been on my bucket list ever since.
posted by cheshyre at 8:58 AM on August 12, 2023
The museum has been on my bucket list ever since.
posted by cheshyre at 8:58 AM on August 12, 2023
“ It took me way too many readthroughs of this post on FP to realize I was on the blue and not the green.
The scary thing is that it seemed like a perfectly reasonable thing for someone to be asking about, at least to my mind.”
And now I am picturing a verrry specific Glamour “Do’s and Don’t’s”
posted by toodleydoodley at 11:33 AM on August 12, 2023
The scary thing is that it seemed like a perfectly reasonable thing for someone to be asking about, at least to my mind.”
And now I am picturing a verrry specific Glamour “Do’s and Don’t’s”
posted by toodleydoodley at 11:33 AM on August 12, 2023
> And now I am picturing a verrry specific Glamour “Do’s and Don’t’s”
Do: As always, propitiate the Fee before launching warships! Also, bowling shoes and personal flotation devices are the "in" look! Pair International Orange with black or white for better open-water visibility and rescue!
Don't: Ignore the panicked screaming of naval architects and shipbuilders during the design process. 64 is an unlucky number, for cannon. Don't underestimate Poland!
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:50 PM on August 12, 2023
Do: As always, propitiate the Fee before launching warships! Also, bowling shoes and personal flotation devices are the "in" look! Pair International Orange with black or white for better open-water visibility and rescue!
Don't: Ignore the panicked screaming of naval architects and shipbuilders during the design process. 64 is an unlucky number, for cannon. Don't underestimate Poland!
posted by sebastienbailard at 6:50 PM on August 12, 2023
Honestly, the Vasa was one of the most impressive things I have ever seen. And a big part of that is how it is displayed. The entire thing is suspended in air and then there are crosswalks and ramps that let you walk around it in three dimensional space.
On top of that the ship is so complete and yet clearly from another Era so there's also this dislocating sense of time travel. You emerge from the museum into the Stockholm light feeling as if you have just come from another dimension.
posted by vacapinta at 2:27 AM on August 13, 2023
On top of that the ship is so complete and yet clearly from another Era so there's also this dislocating sense of time travel. You emerge from the museum into the Stockholm light feeling as if you have just come from another dimension.
posted by vacapinta at 2:27 AM on August 13, 2023
Absolutely fascinating! It's incredible that a timber structure has survived for so long underwater. They don't build 'em like they used to etc ...
posted by dg at 7:48 PM on August 13, 2023
posted by dg at 7:48 PM on August 13, 2023
The water it sank in is basically anaerobic, which preserved the wood. The Mary Rose is much less well-preserved because it sank in water that wasn't anaerobic, and the portion that survives did so because it was buried under silt.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:57 PM on August 13, 2023
posted by BungaDunga at 8:57 PM on August 13, 2023
I went to the Vasamuseet a couple months ago—my travel companion warned me as we entered, "Get ready for your Goonies moment!" I said I would NOT be screaming like a Goonie, thank you very much.
Yet, reader, I very nearly did. It's breathtaking. A museum dedicated to a single object/event allows for a really immersive experience, too. I'm glad I was able to visit Vasa before the next phase of her preservation will have been completed.
Also, TIL: Vasa syndrome is a thing.
posted by obloquy at 3:56 PM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yet, reader, I very nearly did. It's breathtaking. A museum dedicated to a single object/event allows for a really immersive experience, too. I'm glad I was able to visit Vasa before the next phase of her preservation will have been completed.
Also, TIL: Vasa syndrome is a thing.
posted by obloquy at 3:56 PM on August 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
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