"There's a lot going on in here."
October 16, 2023 12:18 PM Subscribe
Ever wondered how an old pinball machine works ? Technology Connections has you covered: Old pinball machines are amazingly complex.
There is zero percent chance I will watch a 50 minute long video so forgive my lack of having watched it, but I want to add a shout out to the Pinball Hall of Fame in Las Vegas if you are at all interested in how old pinball machines look on the inside. The thing is, they have a lot of machines and a lot of them are broken, which is less fun if you want to play them, but if you want to see what a machine looks like with the baseboard taken out, well, they almost certainly have some sitting around looking like that. You can just wander around and look at all the machines and honestly the broken and somewhat disassembled ones are among the most interesting.
Plus, between two shitty pinball players, we spent over 3 hours at the Hall on just $20 which makes it about the cheapest place in town to put money into machines and then never see it again.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:46 PM on October 16, 2023 [12 favorites]
Plus, between two shitty pinball players, we spent over 3 hours at the Hall on just $20 which makes it about the cheapest place in town to put money into machines and then never see it again.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:46 PM on October 16, 2023 [12 favorites]
This is great. I've been fascinated by these machines since a friend of mine made a bunch of paintings using an Even Knievel model: laying down paper, dipping the balls in paint and just playing game after game.
posted by gottabefunky at 12:51 PM on October 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 12:51 PM on October 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Last month a friend roped me in to going to the Pacific Pinball Museum to start learning how to do pinball repair (I guess ultimately so I could be a volunteer repairer for them). The machine we worked on was Aztec! There were a bunch of weird things wrong with it, and ... well most of the answers were "clean the contacts". It's pretty amazing to me that they ever got this to work in the first place, and then also amazing to me that after 45 years it's not all that difficult to get it back into full working condition.
posted by aubilenon at 1:07 PM on October 16, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by aubilenon at 1:07 PM on October 16, 2023 [11 favorites]
I should say that the process by which we got to "clean the contacts" was usually pretty convoluted and took a lot of hunching over schematics and figuring out what's responsible for scoring this or advancing that or whatever, and if we had just heeded the expert repairer's advice and just cleaned everything before we started, it would have saved us a lot of time, but also done a lot less learning.
posted by aubilenon at 1:10 PM on October 16, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by aubilenon at 1:10 PM on October 16, 2023 [6 favorites]
most of the answers were "clean the contacts"
That has been my experience trying to repair any kind of electronics of a certain age.
A couple of things stuck out at me. First, I thought the multi-contact relays were really elegant and were obviously purpose-built. I really like the sandwiches of contacts and paperboard. Second, I'm really curious what the parts availability for something like this is; Digikey doesn't seem to have a wealth of 24VAC solenoids available.
posted by backseatpilot at 1:24 PM on October 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
That has been my experience trying to repair any kind of electronics of a certain age.
A couple of things stuck out at me. First, I thought the multi-contact relays were really elegant and were obviously purpose-built. I really like the sandwiches of contacts and paperboard. Second, I'm really curious what the parts availability for something like this is; Digikey doesn't seem to have a wealth of 24VAC solenoids available.
posted by backseatpilot at 1:24 PM on October 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
I almost posted this. It's really good and totally fascinating considering we're basically just looking at a whole lot of wires. Reed switches? Wires. Solenoids and electromagnets? Wires. Relay switches? More wires. Light bulbs? Hot wires. Transformers? Warm wires. Even many of the playfield switches are just bent wires moving other bent wires.
It's absolutely astounding this even works at all, but we could say the same thing about VLSI microprocessors and silicon, which is really all about lots of very, very small wires considering the main speed limitation of most chips is really all about the vias and interconnects that actually link all the transistors together.
posted by loquacious at 1:25 PM on October 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
It's absolutely astounding this even works at all, but we could say the same thing about VLSI microprocessors and silicon, which is really all about lots of very, very small wires considering the main speed limitation of most chips is really all about the vias and interconnects that actually link all the transistors together.
posted by loquacious at 1:25 PM on October 16, 2023 [7 favorites]
We had a pinball machine growing up and I used to love looking inside it when it was opened up. And it was opened up a lot cause that thing broke all the time.
posted by downtohisturtles at 1:36 PM on October 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 1:36 PM on October 16, 2023 [3 favorites]
Digikey doesn't seem to have a wealth of 24VAC solenoids available.
Yeah I don't think you get them as a generic part, but you look for specialized pinball replacement parts. And if you absolutely can't find one that matches the specs you need, I think it's not out of the question to just wind your own. I don't think they were using particularly exotic manufacturing techniques to make these.
posted by aubilenon at 1:40 PM on October 16, 2023
Yeah I don't think you get them as a generic part, but you look for specialized pinball replacement parts. And if you absolutely can't find one that matches the specs you need, I think it's not out of the question to just wind your own. I don't think they were using particularly exotic manufacturing techniques to make these.
posted by aubilenon at 1:40 PM on October 16, 2023
I collect pinball machines and have a couple old EM machines, including one from my grandfathers bowling alley in the 60s. Getting these old things running is a bit of a black art that I have yet to learn, but most often it’s clean the contact and trace to the previous contact.
totally fascinating considering we're basically just looking at a whole lot of wires
This is a huge part of pinball repair. When you first open a machine it’s intimidating. But they are all really just single simple switches. It’s just a matter of patience and willingness to dig in and read the manual.
Yeah I don't think you get them as a generic part, but you look for specialized pinball replacement parts.
There are usually replacements for most common electronics parts like coils and switches. It’s some of the cosmetic parts or parts unique to a specific machine that can be a problem. You can find almost anything at Marco Specialties or Pinball Life, or trawling the forums at Pinside.
Looking forward to watching this video, but I’m off to play in a tournament tonight.
posted by slogger at 2:46 PM on October 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
totally fascinating considering we're basically just looking at a whole lot of wires
This is a huge part of pinball repair. When you first open a machine it’s intimidating. But they are all really just single simple switches. It’s just a matter of patience and willingness to dig in and read the manual.
Yeah I don't think you get them as a generic part, but you look for specialized pinball replacement parts.
There are usually replacements for most common electronics parts like coils and switches. It’s some of the cosmetic parts or parts unique to a specific machine that can be a problem. You can find almost anything at Marco Specialties or Pinball Life, or trawling the forums at Pinside.
Looking forward to watching this video, but I’m off to play in a tournament tonight.
posted by slogger at 2:46 PM on October 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Years ago, a dear friend Jay needed to get a pinball machine out of his sister's garage when she moved to Las Vegas, but didn't have anywhere to store it, so for a few years I had a beautiful 73 Gottleib, "Out of Sight". . Then he got the cabin finished, and I had to give it back.
posted by mikelieman at 3:01 PM on October 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 3:01 PM on October 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
most of the answers were "clean the contacts"
That was another passing and intrusive thought I had as soon as Alex started diving into all of the contacts and wiring, because, wow, just look at all those arc flashes from 12-24V switching loads and it's happening like tens of thousands of times per game for years on end.
I'm sincerely surprised I haven't heard about electro-mechanical pinball machines just halting and catching fire and spontaneously bursting into flames, especially considering how often they were in smoky, dirty bars, arcades and taverns.
Add a gas leak or some solvent fumes from cleaning into the mix and you're looking at one hell of an ignition source.
On the other hand that might make for one hell of a Burning Man art installation. Pinball but add fire. Lots of fire.
posted by loquacious at 3:46 PM on October 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
That was another passing and intrusive thought I had as soon as Alex started diving into all of the contacts and wiring, because, wow, just look at all those arc flashes from 12-24V switching loads and it's happening like tens of thousands of times per game for years on end.
I'm sincerely surprised I haven't heard about electro-mechanical pinball machines just halting and catching fire and spontaneously bursting into flames, especially considering how often they were in smoky, dirty bars, arcades and taverns.
Add a gas leak or some solvent fumes from cleaning into the mix and you're looking at one hell of an ignition source.
On the other hand that might make for one hell of a Burning Man art installation. Pinball but add fire. Lots of fire.
posted by loquacious at 3:46 PM on October 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
We had a used, well-loved Genie in our basement. The cat used to jump on top of it when we were playing and chase the ball around. We considered that part of the game.
Good times.
posted by kyrademon at 3:48 PM on October 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
Good times.
posted by kyrademon at 3:48 PM on October 16, 2023 [5 favorites]
Oooh, the Pacific Pinball Museum ["a 501(c)3 non-profit organization dedicated to the preservation and promotion of this unique part of American culture"] is selling off its surplus games, as a fundraiser.
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:45 PM on October 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:45 PM on October 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
I’m now convinced doc brown’s ploy would’ve worked for a while.
posted by condour75 at 5:56 PM on October 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by condour75 at 5:56 PM on October 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
first adult job was arcade / bowling alley. desk attendant + video game & pinball mechanic in the late 80s. Oldest game we had was a Playboy or maybe 8 Ball Deluxe.
This was a college Game Center with little management oversight so training was 100% having access to the manuals, and an old chest of tools. Anything board-level we just sent back to C A Robinson.
Fortunately I learned the hard way that 60V across your upper body from one arm holding a coil to another arm on the grounded pinball next to you doesn't have the amps to kill you.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 3:11 AM on October 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
This was a college Game Center with little management oversight so training was 100% having access to the manuals, and an old chest of tools. Anything board-level we just sent back to C A Robinson.
Fortunately I learned the hard way that 60V across your upper body from one arm holding a coil to another arm on the grounded pinball next to you doesn't have the amps to kill you.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 3:11 AM on October 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Fortunately I learned the hard way that 60V across your upper body from one arm holding a coil to another arm on the grounded pinball next to you doesn't have the amps to kill you.
Yeah, on the old cord-board switchboard at summer camp we would hold onto the tip and ring, then hit the 90V ring button -- because we were young idiots at the time. (c.f.: the much older idiots we are today)
posted by mikelieman at 5:14 AM on October 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yeah, on the old cord-board switchboard at summer camp we would hold onto the tip and ring, then hit the 90V ring button -- because we were young idiots at the time. (c.f.: the much older idiots we are today)
posted by mikelieman at 5:14 AM on October 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
I feel like both this and the pair of jukebox videos linked in the comments suffer a little from overconfidence that a mostly-verbal explanation is sufficient for understanding. I did not always find this to be so; quite often I got the gist but not the detail. They're interlocked? um, well, okay then.
The business with the scoring motor, though -- a mechanism to turn a single event into a sequence of events, and then reusing that sequencing to perform addition -- that was magical.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:22 AM on October 17, 2023
The business with the scoring motor, though -- a mechanism to turn a single event into a sequence of events, and then reusing that sequencing to perform addition -- that was magical.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:22 AM on October 17, 2023
@ifixcoinops is a great follow over on Mastodon if you’re there. He’s forever finding new things wrong with these gadgets and fixing them in novel ways.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:00 PM on October 17, 2023
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:00 PM on October 17, 2023
> I feel like both this and the pair of jukebox videos linked in the comments suffer a little from overconfidence that a mostly-verbal explanation is sufficient for understanding. I did not always find this to be so; quite often I got the gist but not the detail. They're interlocked? um, well, okay then.
I can see this. Alex's style can get a little handwavy about glossing over some details that need prior knowledge or filling in. When I hit terms like this I don't understand I like to look it up and at least check out Wikipedia, because they're usually using industry-correct terminology, which makes it easy to reference.
But on the other hand I don't think he's even aiming or attempting for any of his videos to be deep dives or a replacement for actual training or hands on experience. He's definitely in the sort of "know it all" generalists considering his videos have covered everything from heat pumps and minisplit air conditioner/heater units to vintage tech to how display technologies work and other generalist overviews.
It's mostly just light entertainment with a certain brand of snarky, dry humor. Often featuring lots of wires. I really like is dry, snarky humor especially when explaining something especially mind-blowing and vaguely appalling like the guts of a pinball machine or vintage jukebox.
And for me this kind of light but nerdy content is pretty much the best thing about the internet and YouTube and I love how there's a whole range between, say, light, funny but still informative and nerdy creators like Technology Connections, Cathode Ray Dude (that guy is killing it lately) and slightly more serious channels like Asianometry, Wendover Productions and really deeply nerdy and much more technical content like The Signal Path, Curious Marc and Playing with Junk and so many others.
posted by loquacious at 5:37 PM on October 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
I can see this. Alex's style can get a little handwavy about glossing over some details that need prior knowledge or filling in. When I hit terms like this I don't understand I like to look it up and at least check out Wikipedia, because they're usually using industry-correct terminology, which makes it easy to reference.
But on the other hand I don't think he's even aiming or attempting for any of his videos to be deep dives or a replacement for actual training or hands on experience. He's definitely in the sort of "know it all" generalists considering his videos have covered everything from heat pumps and minisplit air conditioner/heater units to vintage tech to how display technologies work and other generalist overviews.
It's mostly just light entertainment with a certain brand of snarky, dry humor. Often featuring lots of wires. I really like is dry, snarky humor especially when explaining something especially mind-blowing and vaguely appalling like the guts of a pinball machine or vintage jukebox.
And for me this kind of light but nerdy content is pretty much the best thing about the internet and YouTube and I love how there's a whole range between, say, light, funny but still informative and nerdy creators like Technology Connections, Cathode Ray Dude (that guy is killing it lately) and slightly more serious channels like Asianometry, Wendover Productions and really deeply nerdy and much more technical content like The Signal Path, Curious Marc and Playing with Junk and so many others.
posted by loquacious at 5:37 PM on October 17, 2023 [6 favorites]
his videos have covered everything from heat pumps and minisplit air conditioner/heater units to vintage tech to how display technologies work
also how brown works!
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:26 PM on October 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
also how brown works!
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:26 PM on October 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Cathode Ray Dude
Hey people, the linked video is indeed wonderful and I'm stoked to see it on mefi and if you have any curiosity about cool relay powered logic you should check it out...but I gotta derail and hype CRD a little bit
You know the nerd at the party who wants to tell you too much about a thing you didn't care about? Imagine if that guy was a fucking delight.
That's Cathode Ray Dude. Dude could be an fpp all his own.
posted by Sauce Trough at 6:43 PM on October 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
Hey people, the linked video is indeed wonderful and I'm stoked to see it on mefi and if you have any curiosity about cool relay powered logic you should check it out...but I gotta derail and hype CRD a little bit
You know the nerd at the party who wants to tell you too much about a thing you didn't care about? Imagine if that guy was a fucking delight.
That's Cathode Ray Dude. Dude could be an fpp all his own.
posted by Sauce Trough at 6:43 PM on October 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
CRD recently on MeFi, although for text not video: Hell Never Ends on x86
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:20 PM on October 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 7:20 PM on October 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
not quite the same jam but still great self produced techno-nerdery: This Old Tony (slyt)
posted by hearthpig at 5:29 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by hearthpig at 5:29 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Yeah, on the old cord-board switchboard at summer camp we would hold onto the tip and ring, then hit the 90V ring button -- because we were young idiots at the time. (c.f.: the much older idiots we are today)
Like working on small lawnmower/go-kart engines and testing by holding the end of the spark plug wire and pulling the rope. Ah yep! that part's working.
The business with the scoring motor, though -- a mechanism to turn a single event into a sequence of events, and then reusing that sequencing to perform addition -- that was magical.
This is how old 50's era hobbyist robots were built. A motor rolling a drum that was marked off with electrical tape and brushes that touched the drum. You programmed the robot's actions by adjusting the tape lengths and the contacts controlled the motors that moved the robot's parts. These are still in use today, more advanced.
Y'all should also check out tim hunkin - YouTube of BBC "Secret Life of Machines" fame. He's recently-ish been going through all the mechanics and control things of his creations. Fascinating general details.
---
I haven't been back to old-home in ages, but in a closet there I have a purely mechanical nickel slot machine that I studied the workings of for ages as a child. It was from my grandfather's gas station. Fuck electricity and relays. You want a mind blower... The insides of a slot machine that's purely mechanical and powered by pulling the lever with a coin. Played that thing forever looking into the back and figuring out what all of the bits and pieced did to maybe give you a bunch of nickels depending...
posted by zengargoyle at 7:00 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Like working on small lawnmower/go-kart engines and testing by holding the end of the spark plug wire and pulling the rope. Ah yep! that part's working.
The business with the scoring motor, though -- a mechanism to turn a single event into a sequence of events, and then reusing that sequencing to perform addition -- that was magical.
This is how old 50's era hobbyist robots were built. A motor rolling a drum that was marked off with electrical tape and brushes that touched the drum. You programmed the robot's actions by adjusting the tape lengths and the contacts controlled the motors that moved the robot's parts. These are still in use today, more advanced.
Y'all should also check out tim hunkin - YouTube of BBC "Secret Life of Machines" fame. He's recently-ish been going through all the mechanics and control things of his creations. Fascinating general details.
---
I haven't been back to old-home in ages, but in a closet there I have a purely mechanical nickel slot machine that I studied the workings of for ages as a child. It was from my grandfather's gas station. Fuck electricity and relays. You want a mind blower... The insides of a slot machine that's purely mechanical and powered by pulling the lever with a coin. Played that thing forever looking into the back and figuring out what all of the bits and pieced did to maybe give you a bunch of nickels depending...
posted by zengargoyle at 7:00 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Like working on small lawnmower/go-kart engines and testing by holding the end of the spark plug wire and pulling the rope. Ah yep! that part's working.
Multimeters exist (and are older than any of us, even).
posted by eviemath at 7:05 AM on October 19, 2023
Multimeters exist (and are older than any of us, even).
posted by eviemath at 7:05 AM on October 19, 2023
Not as much fun though. Seriously though, there's a whole thing about engines that won't stop running because they need some fixing that the answer is to pop off the spark plug wire usually with a screwdriver or something. Most everybody who's dealt with those things has been bitten at least once or twice while doing that or while checking if a spark plug is good by pulling on the cord to look for the spark. What you really wanted to be cautious about was the capacitors in old CRT monitors, need to discharge those or they might really hurt you. Oh and ballasts from florescent lighting, those can make the mad-scientist V-shaped thing that has a lightning bolt going across... don't touch them (but fun to have at a party).
posted by zengargoyle at 7:39 AM on October 19, 2023
posted by zengargoyle at 7:39 AM on October 19, 2023
PLCs (Programmable Logic Controllers) - The Secret Life of Components - episode17 - YouTube. It's about 4:39 when he goes into as he calls them "cam timers". Rotating things that cause switches to switch in a linear sequence of events.
posted by zengargoyle at 7:56 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by zengargoyle at 7:56 AM on October 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm curious where the next part will go because Zengargoyle nails it by calling these old machines PLCs, because that's exactly what they are. They're logic ladders of relays and, later on, motors to drive some small sequences of events but the machines were very inflexible about rules.
Even the first solid-state machines were just formalizing the relay logic in solid-state electronics. I've been working on some light archeology with other coin-op buffs and we're discovering that Gottlieb was trying to go solid-state as early as 1972, but all they could envision was turning relays into transistors. And those were way more expensive and finicky than a 24V solenoid whacking a stack of brass switches.
(Side note: The Williams "Aztec" was an interesting choice of machine for this video because this is the exact game that Williams used to prototype their new solid-state control system. Was it the pinnacle of relay-driven EM games? Perhaps.)
The microprocessor era started to open the doors to more complicated things but even that took time. We had the first MCUs in games around 1977 but nobody could tackle the software involved to handle multi-threaded things, like a timer on a bonus shot, until 1980 or so. But I'll save that lecture for the next YouTube video...
posted by mookoz at 8:55 AM on October 19, 2023
Even the first solid-state machines were just formalizing the relay logic in solid-state electronics. I've been working on some light archeology with other coin-op buffs and we're discovering that Gottlieb was trying to go solid-state as early as 1972, but all they could envision was turning relays into transistors. And those were way more expensive and finicky than a 24V solenoid whacking a stack of brass switches.
(Side note: The Williams "Aztec" was an interesting choice of machine for this video because this is the exact game that Williams used to prototype their new solid-state control system. Was it the pinnacle of relay-driven EM games? Perhaps.)
The microprocessor era started to open the doors to more complicated things but even that took time. We had the first MCUs in games around 1977 but nobody could tackle the software involved to handle multi-threaded things, like a timer on a bonus shot, until 1980 or so. But I'll save that lecture for the next YouTube video...
posted by mookoz at 8:55 AM on October 19, 2023
Mod note: Hey, this post has been added to the Best Of blog!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 9:01 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 9:01 AM on October 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
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