A challenge to the idea of writing such stories at all
October 30, 2023 4:59 AM Subscribe
Modern forms of true crime aren’t just cynical entertainments: they also suffer from a form of epistemological hubris, reassuring us that though the crimes they document are unspeakable, they are, in the final accounting, explicable. And if they are explicable, it follows that they are avoidable. from Accessory After the Fact, a review of Mark O'Connell's A Thread of Violence [The Baffler; ungated]
The ungated link is non-functional for me.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 6:56 AM on October 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 6:56 AM on October 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
I've landed in a weird niche role in TV Production which means that on any given day I'm working in True Crime as often as not, and I've gotta say... I do not understand the appeal of True Crime as a genre.
posted by Navelgazer at 7:00 AM on October 30, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 7:00 AM on October 30, 2023 [14 favorites]
There was an excerpt from this book in the Guardian a few months ago. Can’t say I’m much of a fan of true crime in general but I found the article I linked interesting and the review in the article makes the book sound like it might be worth reading.
posted by colourlesssleep at 7:04 AM on October 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by colourlesssleep at 7:04 AM on October 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
The ungated link is non-functional for me.
Same.
posted by fiercekitten at 7:32 AM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Same.
posted by fiercekitten at 7:32 AM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
The ungated link is non-functional for me.
Accessory out of the bag
posted by chavenet at 7:32 AM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Accessory out of the bag
posted by chavenet at 7:32 AM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
True crime stories are all so...same-y.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:52 AM on October 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:52 AM on October 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
I mean, most types of crimes vary by multiple factors of 2 between societies. Even between modern, industrial, global societies.
So yes, most crime is avoidable. .89/5 means at least 82% of murders in the USA could be avoided, based on Sweden vs USA murder rates.
Similar ratios will apply to most crimes.
posted by NotAYakk at 8:49 AM on October 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
So yes, most crime is avoidable. .89/5 means at least 82% of murders in the USA could be avoided, based on Sweden vs USA murder rates.
Similar ratios will apply to most crimes.
posted by NotAYakk at 8:49 AM on October 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm not much of a true crime fan, especially its obsession with violence against women and children. As a subgenre of true crime, I devour stories about rich people losing their shirts. It's deeply gratifying.
posted by orrnyereg at 8:50 AM on October 30, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 8:50 AM on October 30, 2023 [13 favorites]
I suspect a lot of people get a sort of emotional workout from them, like "I can't believe some bastard did that" indignation, "that could happen to me"/"that could be a dozen people I know" creepiness, and "at least they got the bastard" satisfaction or "he's still out there" spookiness.
posted by pracowity at 9:07 AM on October 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 9:07 AM on October 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
That was the appeal of Columbo. It was rich assholes taken down by a schlub. Really need more of that today.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:17 AM on October 30, 2023 [16 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:17 AM on October 30, 2023 [16 favorites]
I got into true crime during lockdown and have continued ever since. There may not be a tasteful way to approach the subject, but I can say from experience there there are definitely degrees of tastelessness.
...and often celebrates the police and the criminal justice system uncritically
The corners of true crime I spend time in are decidedly not guilty of this. More often than not the conclusion is "this person was allowed to get away with their crimes because the police didn't care about [minority group] and/or systemic incompetence".
Modern forms of true crime aren’t just cynical entertainments: they also suffer from a form of epistemological hubris, reassuring us that though the crimes they document are unspeakable, they are, in the final accounting, explicable.
This is a criticism that could be levelled against all forms of media, non-fiction or otherwise: we live in a chaotic universe that does not respect any narrative arcs and so we create meaning on top of it all. It sounds like this book tries to address the chaotic nature of an event like this and the dissatisfaction that comes when real life doesn't conform to our narrative desires, which is admittedly refreshing but it's not as unique as the article makes it out to be.
posted by slimepuppy at 9:31 AM on October 30, 2023 [8 favorites]
...and often celebrates the police and the criminal justice system uncritically
The corners of true crime I spend time in are decidedly not guilty of this. More often than not the conclusion is "this person was allowed to get away with their crimes because the police didn't care about [minority group] and/or systemic incompetence".
Modern forms of true crime aren’t just cynical entertainments: they also suffer from a form of epistemological hubris, reassuring us that though the crimes they document are unspeakable, they are, in the final accounting, explicable.
This is a criticism that could be levelled against all forms of media, non-fiction or otherwise: we live in a chaotic universe that does not respect any narrative arcs and so we create meaning on top of it all. It sounds like this book tries to address the chaotic nature of an event like this and the dissatisfaction that comes when real life doesn't conform to our narrative desires, which is admittedly refreshing but it's not as unique as the article makes it out to be.
posted by slimepuppy at 9:31 AM on October 30, 2023 [8 favorites]
As a subgenre of true crime, I devour stories about rich people losing their shirts. It's deeply gratifying.
Me too .I also love it when bigoted religious leaders, faith-based scammers, and new-agey culty types get busted hard.
posted by thivaia at 9:47 AM on October 30, 2023
Isn't modern true crime generally of the same ilk and appeal as the penny dreadfuls and pulps with the same mix of lurid flash of the horrors of the unsafe world, the thrill of danger and the re-assurance that the moral good will prevail?
Investigation Discovery and Unsolved Mysteries are on a lot in our house as background radiation while we putter around and do different things. (Kinda like the smell of slightly burnt scrambled eggs from the school near my room right now)
Anyway... watching those programs it becomes very clear how often murder is because: people being crime adjacent (i.e. being involved in gangs, drug dealing, sex work, theft). If you're not crime adjacent, even for people who are poor and in shitty situations, you're generally safe from murder. Then you look at the motives and how often it comes down to "I want your money", "I want your love (or no one else can have it)" or "I don't want to lose those things by divorce, etc"
Honestly, it's stupefying because the "arch-serial killer" ala Hannibal Lecter thing that runs through entertainment is not a thing and most of the impulses behind horrific acts are grubby and tawdry. So often the stories boil down to "shitty person wants something at no cost to themselves".
I'm also constantly amazed at how often these people will commit an atrocity for their "freedom/benefit" only to get snatched up in 3 days.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:59 AM on October 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
Investigation Discovery and Unsolved Mysteries are on a lot in our house as background radiation while we putter around and do different things. (Kinda like the smell of slightly burnt scrambled eggs from the school near my room right now)
Anyway... watching those programs it becomes very clear how often murder is because: people being crime adjacent (i.e. being involved in gangs, drug dealing, sex work, theft). If you're not crime adjacent, even for people who are poor and in shitty situations, you're generally safe from murder. Then you look at the motives and how often it comes down to "I want your money", "I want your love (or no one else can have it)" or "I don't want to lose those things by divorce, etc"
Honestly, it's stupefying because the "arch-serial killer" ala Hannibal Lecter thing that runs through entertainment is not a thing and most of the impulses behind horrific acts are grubby and tawdry. So often the stories boil down to "shitty person wants something at no cost to themselves".
I'm also constantly amazed at how often these people will commit an atrocity for their "freedom/benefit" only to get snatched up in 3 days.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:59 AM on October 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
Crime is depressingly same-y.
And True-Crime even more-so. While it's not my usual role, I've done some development for True Crime shows*, which means doing a lot of searching through old murders, which are very similar for the most part (one place I worked at had a huge running database of murders complete with a crucial field for how recently they'd been covered either by shows at this company or a different one, or if anyone was currently working on a story about them. It was wild.) But for True Crime shows, your murders also need to have stricter parameters.
Specifically, there needs to be a woman involved. That's rule number one. Women are decidedly the majority market for True Crime shows, after all. More specifically, an upper or middle-class woman, probably white. Ideally, the woman is the murderer (this alone is likely enough to greenlight the story, again, presuming that she's upper or middle-class.) If she's the victim, that goes a long way as well, but you'll probably need to find another hook for the story as well**. A man killing another man is going to be a tough sell in any case, but if it's over a woman, it's at least got an outside chance. A man killing another man over something other than a woman is going to have to be an intrinsically fascinating case to make it through to production.
Next is where an archival producer and a story producer will come in. From the Story Producer side of things, this means making a lot of phone calls that must be painfully awkward and difficult in order to determine whether key people involved in the case will be willing to go on camera to talk about it. No interviews generally will mean no story. From the archival side of things, it's about finding out whether there's photos, videos, etc. that can be acquired to tell the story. There's a little bit of inherent push-pull here, in that the higher a subject is in the socio-economic strata, the less likely they'll be to want to go on camera, but the more likely it is that there was extensive coverage of the crime (this is a huge generalization, of course.)
So True Crime ends up documenting a universe of violence perpetrated on or by middle-class usually white women, for the consumption of middle-class usually white women. I'm sure that there's a comfort in seeing the facts of the cases through (and for as salacious and exploitative as these shows inherently are, I can confirm that we do fact-check them pretty thoroughly) but it seems like a vicious cycle of presenting yourself with this ugly world and keeping it up to comfort yourself about the vision of the world you're presenting yourself with.
*This weekend I was getting Facebook ads for something called "Monster Inside," the details of which seemed familiar to me in a way that I couldn't quite place, so I looked it up and, yup, I had done development work on it a few years back.
**One story I worked on developing for a while involved an African-American young woman in Philadelphia who was murdered by a maintenance guy in her apartment building. She managed to pass the "middle class or better" test by virtue of being in college at the time, but figuring out the motive of her killer was pretty speculative, which made the extra "hook" kind of a tenuous sell. I don't know if that one ever made it to production or not.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:12 AM on October 30, 2023 [24 favorites]
And True-Crime even more-so. While it's not my usual role, I've done some development for True Crime shows*, which means doing a lot of searching through old murders, which are very similar for the most part (one place I worked at had a huge running database of murders complete with a crucial field for how recently they'd been covered either by shows at this company or a different one, or if anyone was currently working on a story about them. It was wild.) But for True Crime shows, your murders also need to have stricter parameters.
Specifically, there needs to be a woman involved. That's rule number one. Women are decidedly the majority market for True Crime shows, after all. More specifically, an upper or middle-class woman, probably white. Ideally, the woman is the murderer (this alone is likely enough to greenlight the story, again, presuming that she's upper or middle-class.) If she's the victim, that goes a long way as well, but you'll probably need to find another hook for the story as well**. A man killing another man is going to be a tough sell in any case, but if it's over a woman, it's at least got an outside chance. A man killing another man over something other than a woman is going to have to be an intrinsically fascinating case to make it through to production.
Next is where an archival producer and a story producer will come in. From the Story Producer side of things, this means making a lot of phone calls that must be painfully awkward and difficult in order to determine whether key people involved in the case will be willing to go on camera to talk about it. No interviews generally will mean no story. From the archival side of things, it's about finding out whether there's photos, videos, etc. that can be acquired to tell the story. There's a little bit of inherent push-pull here, in that the higher a subject is in the socio-economic strata, the less likely they'll be to want to go on camera, but the more likely it is that there was extensive coverage of the crime (this is a huge generalization, of course.)
So True Crime ends up documenting a universe of violence perpetrated on or by middle-class usually white women, for the consumption of middle-class usually white women. I'm sure that there's a comfort in seeing the facts of the cases through (and for as salacious and exploitative as these shows inherently are, I can confirm that we do fact-check them pretty thoroughly) but it seems like a vicious cycle of presenting yourself with this ugly world and keeping it up to comfort yourself about the vision of the world you're presenting yourself with.
*This weekend I was getting Facebook ads for something called "Monster Inside," the details of which seemed familiar to me in a way that I couldn't quite place, so I looked it up and, yup, I had done development work on it a few years back.
**One story I worked on developing for a while involved an African-American young woman in Philadelphia who was murdered by a maintenance guy in her apartment building. She managed to pass the "middle class or better" test by virtue of being in college at the time, but figuring out the motive of her killer was pretty speculative, which made the extra "hook" kind of a tenuous sell. I don't know if that one ever made it to production or not.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:12 AM on October 30, 2023 [24 favorites]
There was an excerpt from this book in the Guardian a few months ago. Can’t say I’m much of a fan of true crime in general but I found the article I linked interesting and the review in the article makes the book sound like it might be worth reading.
Wow, that excerpt is really something. I found myself wondering, during the account of his visit to Macarthur at Christmas time, if it didn't cross his mind that Macarthur might just haul off and kill him, for the same kind of bullshitty reasons he claims to have murdered before.
posted by BibiRose at 10:27 AM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Wow, that excerpt is really something. I found myself wondering, during the account of his visit to Macarthur at Christmas time, if it didn't cross his mind that Macarthur might just haul off and kill him, for the same kind of bullshitty reasons he claims to have murdered before.
posted by BibiRose at 10:27 AM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Can we have more heists?
Preferably heists committed by bands of misfits who have hearts of gold, but I'm also willing to accept heists perpetrated by bored billionaires who stage highly elaborate thefts simply for the thrill and spectacle of it while deliberately leaving a trail of clues that only the most clever detective can crack.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:47 AM on October 30, 2023 [12 favorites]
Preferably heists committed by bands of misfits who have hearts of gold, but I'm also willing to accept heists perpetrated by bored billionaires who stage highly elaborate thefts simply for the thrill and spectacle of it while deliberately leaving a trail of clues that only the most clever detective can crack.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:47 AM on October 30, 2023 [12 favorites]
Specifically, there needs to be a woman involved. That's rule number one. Women are decidedly the majority market for True Crime shows, after all. More specifically, an upper or middle-class woman, probably white. Ideally, the woman is the murderer (this alone is likely enough to greenlight the story, again, presuming that she's upper or middle-class.)
It seems like true crime actually has a number of sub-genres. That’s definitely one, and one that feels like it’s trying to stay close to the sort of stories that are often told in crime and detective fiction? And then there’s the really lurid, inexplicable brutal murder, serial killer kind of stuff. And then white collar intrigue and heists almost feel like a different genre.
posted by atoxyl at 11:16 AM on October 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
It seems like true crime actually has a number of sub-genres. That’s definitely one, and one that feels like it’s trying to stay close to the sort of stories that are often told in crime and detective fiction? And then there’s the really lurid, inexplicable brutal murder, serial killer kind of stuff. And then white collar intrigue and heists almost feel like a different genre.
posted by atoxyl at 11:16 AM on October 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
Historical underworld memoirs like Iceberg Slim’s Pimp or Jack Black’s You Can’t Win probably fit in somewhere. I find that kind of thing pretty interesting personally.
posted by atoxyl at 11:22 AM on October 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 11:22 AM on October 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
Oh and Mafia books are definitely a genre, too.
posted by atoxyl at 11:25 AM on October 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by atoxyl at 11:25 AM on October 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
This true crime's a bit morish
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 5:40 PM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 5:40 PM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Comment removed for being ableist. Let's avoid classifying people by their IQ.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:16 AM on October 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:16 AM on October 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
I was the victim of a horrifying crime when I was a child, and I listen to/watch a lot of true crime now. It's not a neat and tidy connection for me-- there is some true crime I can't take in; cases that are too similar to my own, and unsolved cases in particular. And when I was younger, and believed in the police, I especially enjoyed the process of crime solving in true crime.
Now that I'm older, and I no longer believe in the police as a unified force of competence and goodness, I'm a lot more skeptical about those processes and whether they actually work. (Ted Bundy's teeth led to his conviction! But wait, forensic odontology has since been discredited!*)
All that being said, I think it makes me feel less alone. I know the statistics, and I'm aware that the particular crime perpetrated against me is vanishingly rare. However, hearing about other cases reminds me that my case is not singular, I did not ask for what happened to me, and I did nothing to deserve it. It reminds me that the fault alone belongs to the predator. It makes me feel better to listen to media where everyone is horrified at the crime, and condemns the offender, because real life is not always like that.
So if that makes me tacky, ghoulish, low IQ, etc., so be it. Because the person who preyed on me is still out there somewhere; I take comfort in fairy tales where one day, he might be caught.
*Ted Bundy plainly did his crimes; this is just an example where the most famous part of the solution turned out to be bullshit. See also, arson investigations, pour patterns, forensic linguistics...
posted by headspace at 6:37 AM on October 31, 2023 [12 favorites]
Now that I'm older, and I no longer believe in the police as a unified force of competence and goodness, I'm a lot more skeptical about those processes and whether they actually work. (Ted Bundy's teeth led to his conviction! But wait, forensic odontology has since been discredited!*)
All that being said, I think it makes me feel less alone. I know the statistics, and I'm aware that the particular crime perpetrated against me is vanishingly rare. However, hearing about other cases reminds me that my case is not singular, I did not ask for what happened to me, and I did nothing to deserve it. It reminds me that the fault alone belongs to the predator. It makes me feel better to listen to media where everyone is horrified at the crime, and condemns the offender, because real life is not always like that.
So if that makes me tacky, ghoulish, low IQ, etc., so be it. Because the person who preyed on me is still out there somewhere; I take comfort in fairy tales where one day, he might be caught.
*Ted Bundy plainly did his crimes; this is just an example where the most famous part of the solution turned out to be bullshit. See also, arson investigations, pour patterns, forensic linguistics...
posted by headspace at 6:37 AM on October 31, 2023 [12 favorites]
headspace, I'm so sorry. I'm glad this gives you some comfort.
In the 19th century, British and American writers often lamented about how women of all classes would pack the courtroom if the galleries were open for a murder trial. An interest in true crime was, then as now, considered common but unseemly for ladies. For that reason, I have given side-eye to some criticism of the popularity of the genre. Even so, the modern context and the internet have done terrible things to it -- ordinary people being treated as characters or celebrities; racial disparities ignored; copaganda; etc.
Navelgazer: I really appreciate your perspective. When I'm staying with my parents, there's not a lot we can agree on having on TV in the background (which they always want to have). True crime shows are one of those things. I've noticed a lot of what you've pointed out. The lady who had so much potential, who "just lit up the room." (If a guy was killed, he'd "give you the shirt off his back.")
It's gotten to where I'll see somebody's school pictures and think "that one's no good, they look like a murder victim." And why? Because happy, smiling school or family pictures are a prerequisite for being featured on these shows. It's even true for the perpetrators. The worse life the person had, the younger they were in the pictures. If things were really tough, the pictures are from when they were toddlers.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:53 AM on October 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
In the 19th century, British and American writers often lamented about how women of all classes would pack the courtroom if the galleries were open for a murder trial. An interest in true crime was, then as now, considered common but unseemly for ladies. For that reason, I have given side-eye to some criticism of the popularity of the genre. Even so, the modern context and the internet have done terrible things to it -- ordinary people being treated as characters or celebrities; racial disparities ignored; copaganda; etc.
Navelgazer: I really appreciate your perspective. When I'm staying with my parents, there's not a lot we can agree on having on TV in the background (which they always want to have). True crime shows are one of those things. I've noticed a lot of what you've pointed out. The lady who had so much potential, who "just lit up the room." (If a guy was killed, he'd "give you the shirt off his back.")
It's gotten to where I'll see somebody's school pictures and think "that one's no good, they look like a murder victim." And why? Because happy, smiling school or family pictures are a prerequisite for being featured on these shows. It's even true for the perpetrators. The worse life the person had, the younger they were in the pictures. If things were really tough, the pictures are from when they were toddlers.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:53 AM on October 31, 2023 [4 favorites]
One reaction to the Macarthur killings was this:
It was a bizarre happening, an unprecedented situation, a grotesque situation, an almost unbelievable mischance.
Apparently this became acronymed into GUBU.
posted by doctornemo at 3:08 PM on October 31, 2023
It was a bizarre happening, an unprecedented situation, a grotesque situation, an almost unbelievable mischance.
Apparently this became acronymed into GUBU.
posted by doctornemo at 3:08 PM on October 31, 2023
Something that I generally notice when in the realm of True Crime is how ordinary almost all murderers are in every way other than being a murderer. They just go about their lives for the most part being just like everyone else and often go back to being just like everyone else after committing murder. It makes me wonder just how thin the barrier is between being a 'normal' person and being a murderer. Thinner than we'd like to admit, I suspect.
posted by dg at 7:19 PM on October 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by dg at 7:19 PM on October 31, 2023 [2 favorites]
how ordinary almost all murderers are
Perhaps there's a class basis here, where the norm isn't a privileged, wealthy person (cf Hannibal Lector) but working class folks?
posted by doctornemo at 10:13 AM on November 1, 2023
Perhaps there's a class basis here, where the norm isn't a privileged, wealthy person (cf Hannibal Lector) but working class folks?
posted by doctornemo at 10:13 AM on November 1, 2023
Yes, I think so. One of my favorite true crime books -- although I don't have a huge background in the genre -- is A Different Class of Murder by Laura Thompson, about Lord Lucan. The book has a ton of historical background and takes the unusual tack of allowing the reader to loathe the intended victim, not the nanny but Lady Lucan, who was by all accounts a piece of work and remained one until her death of old age. It doesn't exactly raise sympathy for Lord Lucan, but it does show you how financial pressures came to break the mind of a man who did not believe that he should actually have to work. In the end, class and money motivated it after all.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:22 AM on November 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Countess Elena at 7:22 AM on November 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
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The article doesn't touch on it, but I wonder if the book deals with the obvious answer to the question of how to tell a story like this is to focus entirely on the people who were killed, and leave the killer in the margins of the story?
posted by Zumbador at 6:51 AM on October 30, 2023 [1 favorite]