In the eye of the storm 1944
December 18, 2023 2:22 PM Subscribe
In June 1944 Maureen Flavin, at the post office, was responsible for phoning in the weather reports gathered by Ted Sweeney, the keeper of the Blacksod Light in County Mayo. The storm data from Blacksod helped tip the balance for deferring the Normandy landings a couple of days. Maureen later married Ted. She died yesterday in the fullness of her 100 years surrounded by her family. Tributes from Met Eireann 2023 and the US House of Representatives 2021.
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posted by JoeXIII007 at 3:24 PM on December 18, 2023
posted by JoeXIII007 at 3:24 PM on December 18, 2023
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posted by gentlyepigrams at 4:49 PM on December 18, 2023
posted by gentlyepigrams at 4:49 PM on December 18, 2023
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posted by PresidentOfDinosaurs at 6:34 PM on December 18, 2023
posted by PresidentOfDinosaurs at 6:34 PM on December 18, 2023
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posted by May Kasahara at 6:51 PM on December 18, 2023
posted by May Kasahara at 6:51 PM on December 18, 2023
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Operation Overlord hinged on her report. She had no idea at the time that she might have saved so many lives.
posted by BlueHorse at 6:57 PM on December 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
Operation Overlord hinged on her report. She had no idea at the time that she might have saved so many lives.
posted by BlueHorse at 6:57 PM on December 18, 2023 [2 favorites]
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posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 1:19 AM on December 19, 2023
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 1:19 AM on December 19, 2023
Deserves the biggest dot I can find.
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posted by DreamerFi at 2:38 AM on December 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
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posted by DreamerFi at 2:38 AM on December 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
She lived a full life, good for her.
It is worth noting (I've done it on here in the past) that Blacksod's role in the weather reporting for D-Day is somewhat overplayed in popular culture. It's one of those examples where a small paper reports a thing, which sounds cool, and then everyone else just starts using that account until it becomes the 'established history'.
The reality was that HMS Hoste, dodging U-Boats while acting as a floating weather station out in the Atlantic off the West Coast of Ireland, was the critical early warning to Stagg that the weather was changing. It's absolutely true that Blacksod was one of the key other sources of weather data Stagg was using though, through the quiet co-operation of the Irish government.
Perhaps without the additional measurements from it, Stagg wouldn't have felt confident enough to assert that they needed to delay. But perhaps he would have anyway.
Stagg was essentially having to arbitrate a fight between Widewing (the America Forecasters) and Dunstable (The Met Office) at the time over who was right on the go/no-go. Weather forecasting back then was in its absolute infancy and there's a tendency to make it sound like the whole D-Day forecast was Stagg ringing up some random lighthouse in Ireland, getting a few numbers and drawing easy conclusions from them. The reality was very different.
But the Blacksod story has grown in the telling, as they always do. And that's included embelishment over time to the point where she was the one taking the readings (it was Tom's job, although they were already courting at the time) and that they were aware of what the numbers were being used for (they weren't).
As an example of how unlikely that was: Even Lieutenant Hoare, captain of HMS Hoste didn't know why he'd been sent to an obscure position and was having to ride out storms and dodge U-Boats to send back barometer readings. He thought he'd done something wrong and was being punished by the Admiralty/Command for it by being removed from the action elsewhere.
The reality was that they considered Hoare and Hoste to be one of the most reliable young captains and crews they had. The kind of people who would keep sending accurate hourly weather reports, in the harshest and most dangerous conditions, when most other ships would skip doing so. And do so without having to be inducted into the circle of secrecy surrounding Operation Overlord.
Anyway, I don't blame Mary for growing her tale a bit over the years, and I doubt it was deliberate. And it does show how in the biggest events, even the small acts of individuals unknowingly play a part in a huge outcome.
So well done on her for a life well lived, and well loved.
posted by garius at 3:45 AM on December 19, 2023 [14 favorites]
It is worth noting (I've done it on here in the past) that Blacksod's role in the weather reporting for D-Day is somewhat overplayed in popular culture. It's one of those examples where a small paper reports a thing, which sounds cool, and then everyone else just starts using that account until it becomes the 'established history'.
The reality was that HMS Hoste, dodging U-Boats while acting as a floating weather station out in the Atlantic off the West Coast of Ireland, was the critical early warning to Stagg that the weather was changing. It's absolutely true that Blacksod was one of the key other sources of weather data Stagg was using though, through the quiet co-operation of the Irish government.
Perhaps without the additional measurements from it, Stagg wouldn't have felt confident enough to assert that they needed to delay. But perhaps he would have anyway.
Stagg was essentially having to arbitrate a fight between Widewing (the America Forecasters) and Dunstable (The Met Office) at the time over who was right on the go/no-go. Weather forecasting back then was in its absolute infancy and there's a tendency to make it sound like the whole D-Day forecast was Stagg ringing up some random lighthouse in Ireland, getting a few numbers and drawing easy conclusions from them. The reality was very different.
But the Blacksod story has grown in the telling, as they always do. And that's included embelishment over time to the point where she was the one taking the readings (it was Tom's job, although they were already courting at the time) and that they were aware of what the numbers were being used for (they weren't).
As an example of how unlikely that was: Even Lieutenant Hoare, captain of HMS Hoste didn't know why he'd been sent to an obscure position and was having to ride out storms and dodge U-Boats to send back barometer readings. He thought he'd done something wrong and was being punished by the Admiralty/Command for it by being removed from the action elsewhere.
The reality was that they considered Hoare and Hoste to be one of the most reliable young captains and crews they had. The kind of people who would keep sending accurate hourly weather reports, in the harshest and most dangerous conditions, when most other ships would skip doing so. And do so without having to be inducted into the circle of secrecy surrounding Operation Overlord.
Anyway, I don't blame Mary for growing her tale a bit over the years, and I doubt it was deliberate. And it does show how in the biggest events, even the small acts of individuals unknowingly play a part in a huge outcome.
So well done on her for a life well lived, and well loved.
posted by garius at 3:45 AM on December 19, 2023 [14 favorites]
I concur with garius. My mother, born in Dover three years before Maureen Flavin, had an 'interesting' WWII in uniform in the ATS . She didn't talk about it _at all_ until she was in her 90s. Partly because nobody asked her, partly because "one didn't", partly because she needed 50 years to process what had happened and try and make sense of the extraordinary events and bizarre coincidences that she experienced. Much of her war was using a kine-theodolite tracking incommming aircraft, incl. later V1 and V2 drones in North Brabant NL, to help direct counter-measures. She was besties with Doffy Brewer who wrote The Girls Behind the Guns.
At some other time she was stationed in Tewkesbury in the West Midlands. Every morning a smart young Lieutenant would arrive by train with pages of numbers that had to be processed in a particular peculiar way by a team of more-or-less numerate women. After ruminating on this, strictly enjoined to discuss it with nobody, for decades; she concluded that she must have been a small cog in intelligence. There is really no evidence that this was the case. She, and through her, I knew two women who'd actually worked in Bletchley Park. My mother was, like Maureen, like all of us, trying to make her life-history into a coherent narrative.
posted by BobTheScientist at 5:02 AM on December 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
At some other time she was stationed in Tewkesbury in the West Midlands. Every morning a smart young Lieutenant would arrive by train with pages of numbers that had to be processed in a particular peculiar way by a team of more-or-less numerate women. After ruminating on this, strictly enjoined to discuss it with nobody, for decades; she concluded that she must have been a small cog in intelligence. There is really no evidence that this was the case. She, and through her, I knew two women who'd actually worked in Bletchley Park. My mother was, like Maureen, like all of us, trying to make her life-history into a coherent narrative.
posted by BobTheScientist at 5:02 AM on December 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
I am sure that many a pint is being toasted to Mary in Ireland and other places on the planet that value democracy and freedom of speech.
posted by DJZouke at 12:42 PM on December 19, 2023
posted by DJZouke at 12:42 PM on December 19, 2023
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