No big deal for someone worth $5 billion
January 27, 2024 4:20 AM Subscribe
Trump ordered to pay $83m for defamation of E. Jean Carroll. Is it too early to dance in the streets?
Yes. Dance when she has the money.
posted by jzb at 4:44 AM on January 27 [22 favorites]
posted by jzb at 4:44 AM on January 27 [22 favorites]
I imagine Trump will appeal and that could drag on for a long time. Look at Alex Jones--has he paid that settlement yet? Also, if it's true that Jared Kushner got two billion dollars from some shady deal with the Saudis, I'd say Donald is pretty damn far from financial peril, even if he pays every cent of this settlement.
posted by zardoz at 5:01 AM on January 27 [6 favorites]
posted by zardoz at 5:01 AM on January 27 [6 favorites]
I’ll dance on that worthless traitor’s grave.
posted by chronkite at 5:03 AM on January 27 [35 favorites]
posted by chronkite at 5:03 AM on January 27 [35 favorites]
Nelson-haha.jpg
posted by Literaryhero at 5:08 AM on January 27 [11 favorites]
posted by Literaryhero at 5:08 AM on January 27 [11 favorites]
I read somewhere else that TFG has to post a bond for the judgement amount if he appeals. Anyone know if that is actually the case?
posted by Mitheral at 5:09 AM on January 27 [4 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 5:09 AM on January 27 [4 favorites]
The WaPo article mentioned that he'd posted the previous $5 mil judgment he's appealing; presumably he'll have to pay up here as well.
posted by rikschell at 5:12 AM on January 27 [4 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 5:12 AM on January 27 [4 favorites]
I imagine Trump will appeal and that could drag on for a long time.
Yeah, well there's that supersedeas bond he's going to have to put up for an appeal. And we're all just waiting for him to shoot off his big mouth again and Robbie Kaplan filing Carroll III, in which the same thing happens again, but this time, the jury awards 250 million dollars.
Of course, the big question now is, "Can Donald Trump raise 88+ million dollars for an appeal?". I think maybe the well's tapped out and he's not actually going to be able to put it up.
posted by mikelieman at 5:12 AM on January 27 [10 favorites]
Yeah, well there's that supersedeas bond he's going to have to put up for an appeal. And we're all just waiting for him to shoot off his big mouth again and Robbie Kaplan filing Carroll III, in which the same thing happens again, but this time, the jury awards 250 million dollars.
Of course, the big question now is, "Can Donald Trump raise 88+ million dollars for an appeal?". I think maybe the well's tapped out and he's not actually going to be able to put it up.
posted by mikelieman at 5:12 AM on January 27 [10 favorites]
Surely this? Nope - it will be years before she sees a cent, and meanwhile he’ll continue on exactly as before.
One of the more interesting things about Trump’s legal issues is how he spotlights,
pretty much daily, how wealth and power exempt you from the law in the US in any meaningful way
posted by ryanshepard at 5:16 AM on January 27 [40 favorites]
One of the more interesting things about Trump’s legal issues is how he spotlights,
pretty much daily, how wealth and power exempt you from the law in the US in any meaningful way
posted by ryanshepard at 5:16 AM on January 27 [40 favorites]
Under New York law, you need to post a surety bond of 111% of the amount you were told to pay as part of an appeal. So that’s about $95 million that Cheetolini needs before even trying.
Also, what grounds will they be appealing under? The NY Appelate Court can be pretty brutal in civil suits allowing appeal, so they may get the application and go, “no cert” and he’s out of luck.
posted by mephron at 5:34 AM on January 27 [23 favorites]
Also, what grounds will they be appealing under? The NY Appelate Court can be pretty brutal in civil suits allowing appeal, so they may get the application and go, “no cert” and he’s out of luck.
posted by mephron at 5:34 AM on January 27 [23 favorites]
I don't think the Republican grift well is running dry. These people largely have money.
Honestly, in that case I would say that the more he appeals, the more he screws up, the more money he's going to have to pull away from those supporters.
He's about to be the presidential nominee. His devotees don't give a F if he's a rapist.
And the way to combat that is to assemble more people than them to say "fuck no, not this guy again" and vote for Biden in November. And then Harris (probably) in 2028.
We had a lengthy talk about this before the show last night, and I summed up my position as: "look, Biden may not be a great candidate, but I'd frankly vote for a cheese plate for president if it was up against Trump." I am likely not the only person with this opinion.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:35 AM on January 27 [41 favorites]
Honestly, in that case I would say that the more he appeals, the more he screws up, the more money he's going to have to pull away from those supporters.
He's about to be the presidential nominee. His devotees don't give a F if he's a rapist.
And the way to combat that is to assemble more people than them to say "fuck no, not this guy again" and vote for Biden in November. And then Harris (probably) in 2028.
We had a lengthy talk about this before the show last night, and I summed up my position as: "look, Biden may not be a great candidate, but I'd frankly vote for a cheese plate for president if it was up against Trump." I am likely not the only person with this opinion.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:35 AM on January 27 [41 favorites]
Anyone know if that is actually the case?
Trump has to pay.
Trump has to pay.
According to New York-based Pedersen & Sons Surety Bond Agency Inc., a civil appeal doesn't delay a judgment from being paid. In fact, filing an appeal requires a bond that includes additional statutory interest that, in Trump's case, would amount to an additional $7.5 million to the court.posted by JoeZydeco at 5:36 AM on January 27 [22 favorites]
If I were E. Jean Carroll the first thing I'd buy with Trump's money is toilet paper with his picture on each sheet.
posted by tommasz at 5:40 AM on January 27 [4 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 5:40 AM on January 27 [4 favorites]
I’ll dance on that worthless traitor’s grave.
Wear galoshes. That thing's going to be swimming in piss.
posted by Paul Slade at 5:48 AM on January 27 [63 favorites]
Wear galoshes. That thing's going to be swimming in piss.
posted by Paul Slade at 5:48 AM on January 27 [63 favorites]
He's about to be the presidential nominee. His devotees don't give a F if he's a rapist.
We new that. He basically admitted it in the "Access Hollywood" tape. All his supporters care about is "Owning the Libs" and his promise of "revenge" for...sharing the country with folks not like them, I guess?
posted by MrGuilt at 5:54 AM on January 27 [11 favorites]
We new that. He basically admitted it in the "Access Hollywood" tape. All his supporters care about is "Owning the Libs" and his promise of "revenge" for...sharing the country with folks not like them, I guess?
posted by MrGuilt at 5:54 AM on January 27 [11 favorites]
Just a reminder that the Trump Org NY Fraud case is likely to have a penalty announced soon. It has already been found that the Trump org was cooking to books to maximize bank loans and minimize taxes. That could be another $100-$200 and ending his license to do real estate in New York.
Sure he can keep grifting some more money, but the psychic damage to Tump will be great.
Most of his core supporters are unmovable at this point, but maybe loosing his core business could move a few of the folks that say "I don't like his personal actions, but I think he is a business genius that brings those skills to running the country" It's clear he has no skills and can't run a business.
posted by CostcoCultist at 5:57 AM on January 27 [15 favorites]
Sure he can keep grifting some more money, but the psychic damage to Tump will be great.
Most of his core supporters are unmovable at this point, but maybe loosing his core business could move a few of the folks that say "I don't like his personal actions, but I think he is a business genius that brings those skills to running the country" It's clear he has no skills and can't run a business.
posted by CostcoCultist at 5:57 AM on January 27 [15 favorites]
i’m curious what happens if he just, as i expect him to, doesn’t pay. will he be arrested? he just has to call their bluff until nov 4th and then either he’s completely fucked anyway, or he’s president and will get away with all of it. it’s so fun how we are rushing headlong into a real constitutional crisis with all these cases swirling around trump. i love to think about how we’re only 9 months away from the complete breakdown of the political order.
posted by dis_integration at 6:05 AM on January 27 [12 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 6:05 AM on January 27 [12 favorites]
Of course, the big question now is, "Can Donald Trump raise 88+ million dollars for an appeal?". I think maybe the well's tapped out and he's not actually going to be able to put it up.
I think that depends on how badly Putin, the Saudis, et.al. want/need the useful fool back in office.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:08 AM on January 27 [11 favorites]
I think that depends on how badly Putin, the Saudis, et.al. want/need the useful fool back in office.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:08 AM on January 27 [11 favorites]
the interesting question is who will be the vp nominee who would become p when trump's advancing senility, or a stroke, makes him unable to even answer a yes or no question. evil folk may be planning a scenario like trump gets in office but takes an exit shortly thereafter and then there's a young compos mentis neofascist sitting in the garden
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:16 AM on January 27 [3 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:16 AM on January 27 [3 favorites]
In true dictatorship style, I expect the VP to be one of his kids.
posted by The River Ivel at 6:19 AM on January 27 [9 favorites]
posted by The River Ivel at 6:19 AM on January 27 [9 favorites]
HuffPo ran a piece speculating he was being obstinate and horrible during the case on purpose to inflate the amount of the award, because a larger number was more useful for his argument to his base that he was being persecuted.
(I'd link it, but a, I'm lazy and b, that was the whole argument anyway.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:28 AM on January 27 [7 favorites]
(I'd link it, but a, I'm lazy and b, that was the whole argument anyway.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 6:28 AM on January 27 [7 favorites]
mikelieman: Of course, the big question now is, "Can Donald Trump raise 88+ million dollars for an appeal?".
Attorney Habba is on the board of MAGA Inc.[1], The Trump-supporting super-PAC, and has filled reports with the Federal Electoral Commission saying that Habba's legal firm has received millions to work this trial[2].
Maybe there's fundraising going on from registered voters and buyers of merchandising to pay this fine.
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alina_Habba
2: https://www.newsweek.com/alina-habbas-firm-has-been-paid-over-35m-defend-trump-1862002
The cycle of "Objection!" / "Overruled." made following coirt proceedings via live-tweet kinda fun.
posted by k3ninho at 6:39 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
Attorney Habba is on the board of MAGA Inc.[1], The Trump-supporting super-PAC, and has filled reports with the Federal Electoral Commission saying that Habba's legal firm has received millions to work this trial[2].
Maybe there's fundraising going on from registered voters and buyers of merchandising to pay this fine.
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alina_Habba
2: https://www.newsweek.com/alina-habbas-firm-has-been-paid-over-35m-defend-trump-1862002
The cycle of "Objection!" / "Overruled." made following coirt proceedings via live-tweet kinda fun.
posted by k3ninho at 6:39 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
His normal tactic when losing cases is to declare bankruptcy. He’s done it a few times. That’s a bit harder to do under the big presidential candidate microscope. But I’m sure he can spin out how the liberals are taking away his money like they do to all you beautiful “real” Americans.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:49 AM on January 27 [4 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:49 AM on January 27 [4 favorites]
I have been studying the work of Ruth Ben-Ghiat. I believe she deserves her own sobriquet, though we can't use RBG, that spot in the pantheon is taken. I fear she may rather be known as Cassandra.
In her study of right wing fascism, she describes the peculiar misogyny of the 'strongman' as machismo. It's a word with origins, which aren't important to the women who experience it, the ones that understand it the most.
Part of machismo is public shaming of women. It's just a show of strength. Over inferiors. It's essential to facsism. It's almost the first part. The first part is that men are better, and now you know the second part.
I'm a fan of Cassandra. I think she knows what's about to happen. She predicted this. I've been to her oracle and she knew this would happen. What worries me is that she also says DOOM.
posted by adept256 at 7:11 AM on January 27 [19 favorites]
In her study of right wing fascism, she describes the peculiar misogyny of the 'strongman' as machismo. It's a word with origins, which aren't important to the women who experience it, the ones that understand it the most.
Part of machismo is public shaming of women. It's just a show of strength. Over inferiors. It's essential to facsism. It's almost the first part. The first part is that men are better, and now you know the second part.
I'm a fan of Cassandra. I think she knows what's about to happen. She predicted this. I've been to her oracle and she knew this would happen. What worries me is that she also says DOOM.
posted by adept256 at 7:11 AM on January 27 [19 favorites]
The reason Trump uses nicknames for people is that he's so mentally incapacitated, he can't remember their real names. (Pass it on.)
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:15 AM on January 27 [7 favorites]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 7:15 AM on January 27 [7 favorites]
Would it be unethical if I pay Alina Habba to represent the next person I sue?
posted by 2N2222 at 7:24 AM on January 27 [9 favorites]
posted by 2N2222 at 7:24 AM on January 27 [9 favorites]
TV Series pitch: Resort
A brilliant writer is, as a result of a lengthy legal process, awarded major damages against a wealthy and powerful sleazeball. Said sleazeball refuses to pay, resulting in the writer being awarded one of the sleazeball's golf courses.
The writer is about to sell the golf course when she realizes that the sleazeball ran a whole lot of his dirty dealings through the golf courses, and if she can figure out how, she can do him additional damage, and possibly cost him political power.
Plus, the golf course is pretty profitable.
So a brilliant, witty writer finds herself at the helm of a dilapidated golf resort, trying to unravel the intricacies of the frauds and atrocities that had been committed there, figuring out the mysteries at the heart of the resort's malignant success. And in the meantime she's completely in charge of a resort which has been the playground of an abusive patriarchal sleazeball for decades, and changing that culture is going to be hard.
But fun.
Streaming services, call me. I've got the first season storyboarded. You'll love her buddies, the stoic but tender corporate attorney and the plucky forensic accountant.
posted by MrVisible at 7:36 AM on January 27 [56 favorites]
A brilliant writer is, as a result of a lengthy legal process, awarded major damages against a wealthy and powerful sleazeball. Said sleazeball refuses to pay, resulting in the writer being awarded one of the sleazeball's golf courses.
The writer is about to sell the golf course when she realizes that the sleazeball ran a whole lot of his dirty dealings through the golf courses, and if she can figure out how, she can do him additional damage, and possibly cost him political power.
Plus, the golf course is pretty profitable.
So a brilliant, witty writer finds herself at the helm of a dilapidated golf resort, trying to unravel the intricacies of the frauds and atrocities that had been committed there, figuring out the mysteries at the heart of the resort's malignant success. And in the meantime she's completely in charge of a resort which has been the playground of an abusive patriarchal sleazeball for decades, and changing that culture is going to be hard.
But fun.
Streaming services, call me. I've got the first season storyboarded. You'll love her buddies, the stoic but tender corporate attorney and the plucky forensic accountant.
posted by MrVisible at 7:36 AM on January 27 [56 favorites]
Throw in a pesky gopher and we'll greenlight the pilot.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:38 AM on January 27 [36 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:38 AM on January 27 [36 favorites]
loosing his core business could move a few of the folks that say "I don't like his personal actions, but I think he is a business genius that brings those skills to running the country" It's clear he has no skills and can't run a business.
Are there still any such people? They'd have to have watched The Apprentice and literally nothing else since, because stories about how badly run the various Trump businesses are aren't exactly a new thing.
Attorney Habba is on the board of MAGA Inc.[1], The Trump-supporting super-PAC, and has filled reports with the Federal Electoral Commission saying that Habba's legal firm has received millions to work this trial[2].
Alina Habba has her own problems. She could very well lose her law license over the Bianco case. Her actions there are so egregiously unethical that if she's not worrying about it first and foremost, she really should be.
posted by jackbishop at 7:39 AM on January 27 [15 favorites]
Are there still any such people? They'd have to have watched The Apprentice and literally nothing else since, because stories about how badly run the various Trump businesses are aren't exactly a new thing.
Attorney Habba is on the board of MAGA Inc.[1], The Trump-supporting super-PAC, and has filled reports with the Federal Electoral Commission saying that Habba's legal firm has received millions to work this trial[2].
Alina Habba has her own problems. She could very well lose her law license over the Bianco case. Her actions there are so egregiously unethical that if she's not worrying about it first and foremost, she really should be.
posted by jackbishop at 7:39 AM on January 27 [15 favorites]
He'll have to tie up some money in this now, either putting down the full amount in cash (unlikely) or getting a bond, which has a cost in the low millions and also would require being backed by some sort of asset. The ongoing legal costs can presumably come out of one of his various PACs as they shuffle money around, but it's still money he can't spend on something else.
So even if it takes years more for Carroll to get her money, I think this set of rulings is excellent, just like the ruling against Rudy the other month gave me smiles. I wish more people whom he had dishonestly attacked publicly were able to sue as well; it would be lovely to see these start stacking up, one after another.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:40 AM on January 27 [7 favorites]
So even if it takes years more for Carroll to get her money, I think this set of rulings is excellent, just like the ruling against Rudy the other month gave me smiles. I wish more people whom he had dishonestly attacked publicly were able to sue as well; it would be lovely to see these start stacking up, one after another.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:40 AM on January 27 [7 favorites]
If Carroll gets the money I'd love to see her set up a fund so others that have been publicly targeted by TFG can get a lawyer. Hell, it would pay for itself after a few cases.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:43 AM on January 27 [18 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:43 AM on January 27 [18 favorites]
Throw in a pesky gopher and we'll greenlight the pilot.
it's a start, but what we really need is a talking donkey that votes democratic and has many sardonic comments to make on the sleazeball as well as a lot of inside information, because no one thinks of watching what they say in front of a donkey
posted by pyramid termite at 7:44 AM on January 27 [8 favorites]
it's a start, but what we really need is a talking donkey that votes democratic and has many sardonic comments to make on the sleazeball as well as a lot of inside information, because no one thinks of watching what they say in front of a donkey
posted by pyramid termite at 7:44 AM on January 27 [8 favorites]
Now that I have given my considered opinion, informed by a scholarly source, let me give you my gut-reaction.
My guts? GROSS. You would protect a child from this information. It would be your moral duty, while knowing that allowing ignorance would be neglect.
My guts? GOOD. Take his fucking money. Fucken take it. TAKE IT.
My heart? SORROW. Jean is 80yo and will never have another year of peace. Her priceless dignity can never be paid for.
My heart? SORROW. An entire nation is defiled, this is a time for grief.
My foot? WIPE. This all under my shoe. Smeared dog shit I am far above.
posted by adept256 at 7:49 AM on January 27 [11 favorites]
My guts? GROSS. You would protect a child from this information. It would be your moral duty, while knowing that allowing ignorance would be neglect.
My guts? GOOD. Take his fucking money. Fucken take it. TAKE IT.
My heart? SORROW. Jean is 80yo and will never have another year of peace. Her priceless dignity can never be paid for.
My heart? SORROW. An entire nation is defiled, this is a time for grief.
My foot? WIPE. This all under my shoe. Smeared dog shit I am far above.
posted by adept256 at 7:49 AM on January 27 [11 favorites]
‘Throw in a pesky gopher and we'll greenlight the pilot.’
I could see Rodney Dangerfeild playing trump in a satisfying way.
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:51 AM on January 27 [6 favorites]
I could see Rodney Dangerfeild playing trump in a satisfying way.
posted by Liquidwolf at 7:51 AM on January 27 [6 favorites]
> It's clear he has no skills and can't run a business.
*Bain voice* "It's very clear...to you."
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:53 AM on January 27 [8 favorites]
*Bain voice* "It's very clear...to you."
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:53 AM on January 27 [8 favorites]
Alina Habba is such a weird lawyer. Trump has had good lawyers, even recently, and from all those years of litigation, he must know what a good lawyer is. So she is kind of a mystery. I think she is there to fail in a decorative manner.
Trump sees everything as a reality show, and it works for him, too. He must have known in advance that he stood no chance in this case (though he might frame in differently than us), and his plan is to make his loss into a political gain. (He is the victim of a politicisation of the justice system, jada jada). For this reason, it is more important that Habba literally looks and acts the part he wants her to play than that she is a good lawyer.
That's my theory, anyway. But perhaps it makes no sense to try and make sense of Trump...
posted by mumimor at 8:10 AM on January 27 [5 favorites]
Trump sees everything as a reality show, and it works for him, too. He must have known in advance that he stood no chance in this case (though he might frame in differently than us), and his plan is to make his loss into a political gain. (He is the victim of a politicisation of the justice system, jada jada). For this reason, it is more important that Habba literally looks and acts the part he wants her to play than that she is a good lawyer.
That's my theory, anyway. But perhaps it makes no sense to try and make sense of Trump...
posted by mumimor at 8:10 AM on January 27 [5 favorites]
Hideous Men by E. Jean Carroll (c/w: contains graphic descriptions of rape)
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 8:11 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
posted by and they trembled before her fury at 8:11 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
Just a reminder that the Trump Org NY Fraud case is likely to have a penalty announced soon. It has already been found that the Trump org was cooking to books to maximize bank loans and minimize taxes. That could be another $100-$200 and ending his license to do real estate in New York.
AG James is asking for $370 million.
"Attorneys from James' office requested the punishment in post-trial motions filed Friday in the Trump fraud case. They said that Trump owes $168 million of interest allegedly saved through fraud; $152 million from the sale of the Old Post Office building in Washington, D.C., the site of one of Trump's hotels; $60 million through the transfer of the Ferry Point Golf Course contract; and $2.5 million from severance agreements for former Trump Organization chief financial officer Allen Howard Weisselberg and ex-Trump Organization controller Jeff McConney.
James also called for lifetime bans for Trump, Weisselberg and McConney from participation in the real estate industry as well as from serving as officers or directors in New York corporations or entities. The attorney general also asked for five-year bans for Trump's eldest sons, Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump, with the same conditions."
posted by soundguy99 at 8:17 AM on January 27 [11 favorites]
AG James is asking for $370 million.
"Attorneys from James' office requested the punishment in post-trial motions filed Friday in the Trump fraud case. They said that Trump owes $168 million of interest allegedly saved through fraud; $152 million from the sale of the Old Post Office building in Washington, D.C., the site of one of Trump's hotels; $60 million through the transfer of the Ferry Point Golf Course contract; and $2.5 million from severance agreements for former Trump Organization chief financial officer Allen Howard Weisselberg and ex-Trump Organization controller Jeff McConney.
James also called for lifetime bans for Trump, Weisselberg and McConney from participation in the real estate industry as well as from serving as officers or directors in New York corporations or entities. The attorney general also asked for five-year bans for Trump's eldest sons, Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump, with the same conditions."
posted by soundguy99 at 8:17 AM on January 27 [11 favorites]
Trump has had good lawyers, even recently, and from all those years of litigation, he must know what a good lawyer is.
Haha. I mean, name names. Which one was the good lawyer? Rudy? Jenna? Sidney? The coup crew? Which one was the good lawyer?
I suppose, the ones that flipped? Are those the good lawyers? The ones that flipped in this case? After they lost the first time and were replaced? The whistleblowers? The plea-bargainers? The ass-coverer's? The one's that just wanted to sell a fucking book?
I welcome defectors, but there is a process of remission and redemption, and genuine contrition. I only see opportunistic scumbags.
When was there ever a good lawyer?
posted by adept256 at 8:28 AM on January 27 [11 favorites]
Haha. I mean, name names. Which one was the good lawyer? Rudy? Jenna? Sidney? The coup crew? Which one was the good lawyer?
I suppose, the ones that flipped? Are those the good lawyers? The ones that flipped in this case? After they lost the first time and were replaced? The whistleblowers? The plea-bargainers? The ass-coverer's? The one's that just wanted to sell a fucking book?
I welcome defectors, but there is a process of remission and redemption, and genuine contrition. I only see opportunistic scumbags.
When was there ever a good lawyer?
posted by adept256 at 8:28 AM on January 27 [11 favorites]
He must have known in advance that he stood no chance in this case
Everything he has ever taken a chance on has worked out so I doubt that very much.
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:37 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
Everything he has ever taken a chance on has worked out so I doubt that very much.
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:37 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Comment and response removed. Please stick to speaking for yourself and avoid posting about the awful language being posted on other sites, thanks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 9:15 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 9:15 AM on January 27 [1 favorite]
When was there ever a good lawyer?
I've long since lost track of all his lawyers, other than the ones like Rudy and Habba who stand out, but he did have a few, I think for the Mar a Lago case and at least one other, that were considered good, mainstream, qualified lawyers. I believe all of them have since departed, for all the usual reasons (didn't get paid, didn't want to be involved in inappropriate court filings, needed to get their own lawyers, etc.). Even Tacopina recently bailed out; he was not what you'd consider top-tier, but certainly more qualified than Habba.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:21 AM on January 27 [5 favorites]
I've long since lost track of all his lawyers, other than the ones like Rudy and Habba who stand out, but he did have a few, I think for the Mar a Lago case and at least one other, that were considered good, mainstream, qualified lawyers. I believe all of them have since departed, for all the usual reasons (didn't get paid, didn't want to be involved in inappropriate court filings, needed to get their own lawyers, etc.). Even Tacopina recently bailed out; he was not what you'd consider top-tier, but certainly more qualified than Habba.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:21 AM on January 27 [5 favorites]
I could see Rodney Dangerfeild playing trump in a satisfying way
It would be very satisfying because Dangerfield is dead.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:30 AM on January 27 [28 favorites]
It would be very satisfying because Dangerfield is dead.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:30 AM on January 27 [28 favorites]
What I love about this is that $65 million of the damages is punitive. In other words, the jury is trying to teach Trump a lesson. So the fact that's it's notoriously difficult to get him to shut the fuck up, even if you're a judge, and his arrogant boastfulness and exaggeration of his wealth, both may have contributed to the size of the damages.
posted by mokey at 9:33 AM on January 27 [8 favorites]
posted by mokey at 9:33 AM on January 27 [8 favorites]
Another thought is that if he can’t afford to appeal (frankly, I want the FEC to rule you can’t use campaign funds for a candidate’s legal problems) then E. Jean Carroll can file a lien and ask the NY Sheriff’s Department to collect it. I’d like to see that.
posted by mephron at 9:38 AM on January 27 [22 favorites]
posted by mephron at 9:38 AM on January 27 [22 favorites]
My hope is that putting up the bonds for the appeals significantly strains Trump's personal and business cash reserves. Then, when he ultimately, truly, finally, unappealably loses the NY tax case and is functionally barred from doing business in NY, the combination of cash flow problems and the loss of a major market causes the whole debt-fueled house of cards to collapse.
If we're very lucky we might even get to that point before the election.
posted by jedicus at 10:21 AM on January 27 [14 favorites]
If we're very lucky we might even get to that point before the election.
posted by jedicus at 10:21 AM on January 27 [14 favorites]
How does the NY Tax lawsuit and the fact that the Trump org is under a controller affect the ability to put up the bond and or his ability to avoid paying out. I assume it delays collection but ultimately may simplify things since as the corporation is dissolved and the assets sold off to pay out the shareholders Trump’s creditors can use that to get at Trump’s assets.
posted by interogative mood at 10:48 AM on January 27
posted by interogative mood at 10:48 AM on January 27
What, realistically, would his stupid fraud empire going down in flames look like? Rich people go "bankrupt" all the time but none of them wind up living in cardboard boxes like the villains from Trading Places, and depending on who you ask Trump has been "broke" at various points in his life but never had to spend a day living outside of (tacky, but still) luxury. Assume for the purposes of this exercise that he doesn't become President again.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:55 AM on January 27 [7 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:55 AM on January 27 [7 favorites]
Politico has an article on the long list of former Trump
attorneys. He tends to ignore the advice of the good ones he hires until they quit, and only bad ones stick around.
posted by interogative mood at 10:57 AM on January 27 [5 favorites]
attorneys. He tends to ignore the advice of the good ones he hires until they quit, and only bad ones stick around.
posted by interogative mood at 10:57 AM on January 27 [5 favorites]
How does the NY Tax lawsuit and the fact that the Trump org is under a controller affect the ability to put up the bond and or his ability to avoid paying out.
Well, this is a personal lawsuit, not something he would legally be allowed to use the business assets to pay, as I understand it; so I would imagine the controller would enforce that, preventing Trump from the usual illegal shenanigans of moving money around that he has used in the past to keep his criminal enterprise of an existence chugging along? In other words, it limits him to using his personal assets and illegally diverted campaign funds.
posted by eviemath at 11:04 AM on January 27 [5 favorites]
Well, this is a personal lawsuit, not something he would legally be allowed to use the business assets to pay, as I understand it; so I would imagine the controller would enforce that, preventing Trump from the usual illegal shenanigans of moving money around that he has used in the past to keep his criminal enterprise of an existence chugging along? In other words, it limits him to using his personal assets and illegally diverted campaign funds.
posted by eviemath at 11:04 AM on January 27 [5 favorites]
HuffPo ran a piece speculating he was being obstinate and horrible during the case on purpose to inflate the amount of the award, because a larger number was more useful for his argument to his base that he was being persecuted.
yeah, I doubt it. I'm guessing this is just one more lazy press piece on how Trump is really playing chess. In actuality, he's someone who finds it impossible to behave like a human being with any morals or any remorse.
Also I love NYS law on this. Thanks for chasing that down in this thread.
posted by bluesky43 at 12:06 PM on January 27 [10 favorites]
yeah, I doubt it. I'm guessing this is just one more lazy press piece on how Trump is really playing chess. In actuality, he's someone who finds it impossible to behave like a human being with any morals or any remorse.
Also I love NYS law on this. Thanks for chasing that down in this thread.
posted by bluesky43 at 12:06 PM on January 27 [10 favorites]
>When was there ever a good lawyer?I think the obvious answer here would be Roy Cohn, as much as I’m loath to call him a ‘good’ lawyer. Maybe ‘effective’ lawyer? He definitely showed Trump how to exploit the US legal system and taught him he could usually just grind down any opponent.
posted by theory at 12:08 PM on January 27 [5 favorites]
As Trump says, a lot of his wealth is in the value of his name. Maybe Carroll can take Trum and leave him with P.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:08 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:08 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
Politico has an article on the long list of former Trump attorneys. He tends to ignore the advice of the good ones he hires until they quit, and only bad ones stick around.
That article is great, but it is from 2022. By now that clown has had several more full rotations of his legal representation. So much winning!
posted by Dip Flash at 12:20 PM on January 27
That article is great, but it is from 2022. By now that clown has had several more full rotations of his legal representation. So much winning!
posted by Dip Flash at 12:20 PM on January 27
Maybe his supporters don't care about what he did, or don't believe he did it. But I've heard talking about donations already. They know their donations are paying for this. They want to support him, but they don't want their money will be spent on "loser lawyers" or go to pay off Carroll, or go into NY state's general fund (or wherever that money will go).
Sure, he can't explicitly do that with campaign funds - but remember FEC vs Ted Cruz last year? He can loan money to his campaign at any interest rate he wants, and then use campaign funds to pay himself back making a tidy profit.
posted by Garm at 12:20 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
Sure, he can't explicitly do that with campaign funds - but remember FEC vs Ted Cruz last year? He can loan money to his campaign at any interest rate he wants, and then use campaign funds to pay himself back making a tidy profit.
posted by Garm at 12:20 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
but I think he is a business genius that brings those skills to running the country" It's clear he has no skills and can't run a business.
You're misreading the admiration. "Business skills" doesn't mean legally running a successful business. It means "gets tons of money by hook or by crook". To them, it's almost better if he cheated his ass off. They either have always wanted to as well but are too afraid, or they are doing the same on a smaller scale.
posted by ctmf at 12:33 PM on January 27 [7 favorites]
You're misreading the admiration. "Business skills" doesn't mean legally running a successful business. It means "gets tons of money by hook or by crook". To them, it's almost better if he cheated his ass off. They either have always wanted to as well but are too afraid, or they are doing the same on a smaller scale.
posted by ctmf at 12:33 PM on January 27 [7 favorites]
Giuliani went on Newsmax to defend Trump:
"It was sexual assault, not rape. And second, you can be guilty of rape and still a person can be a wacko."
The structure of that sentence has the rapist as the wacko.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:54 PM on January 27 [14 favorites]
"It was sexual assault, not rape. And second, you can be guilty of rape and still a person can be a wacko."
The structure of that sentence has the rapist as the wacko.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:54 PM on January 27 [14 favorites]
> Yeah, well there's that supersedeas bond he's going to have to put up for an appeal. And we're all just waiting for him to shoot off his big mouth again and Robbie Kaplan filing Carroll III, in which the same thing happens again, but this time, the jury awards 250 million dollars.Elom Nusk: "...if I'd just shut up, I could have gotten out of that whole Xitter fiasco without being forced to sink so much of my fortune into it."
TFG: "Hold my Diet Coke, Steve
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 12:58 PM on January 27 [5 favorites]
What, realistically, would his stupid fraud empire going down in flames look like?
The businesses are broken up and bought out by other people, who either take them over and start running them properly or who liquidate the assets and turn them into something more useful.
And as a bonus, above and beyond the last-two-minutes-of-the-broadcast "and to close out our show, here's the latest kooky thing the now-powerless former president said" soundbites on news programming, we will NEVER HAVE TO HEAR FROM THAT ASSHOLE EVER AGAIN.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:29 PM on January 27 [7 favorites]
The businesses are broken up and bought out by other people, who either take them over and start running them properly or who liquidate the assets and turn them into something more useful.
And as a bonus, above and beyond the last-two-minutes-of-the-broadcast "and to close out our show, here's the latest kooky thing the now-powerless former president said" soundbites on news programming, we will NEVER HAVE TO HEAR FROM THAT ASSHOLE EVER AGAIN.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:29 PM on January 27 [7 favorites]
we will NEVER HAVE TO HEAR FROM THAT ASSHOLE EVER AGAIN.
If I had just one wish, this would be it. Really. Just shut the fuck up forever. I can't stand it anymore.
posted by tzikeh at 3:03 PM on January 27 [35 favorites]
If I had just one wish, this would be it. Really. Just shut the fuck up forever. I can't stand it anymore.
posted by tzikeh at 3:03 PM on January 27 [35 favorites]
Maybe Carroll can take Trum and leave him with P.
But he swears he's not into P.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:01 PM on January 27 [3 favorites]
But he swears he's not into P.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:01 PM on January 27 [3 favorites]
Tzikeh, if YOU'RE that sick of him imagine what us New Yorkers feel about the snozfucker.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:07 PM on January 27 [13 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:07 PM on January 27 [13 favorites]
These guys seem to think that there's no avenue for appeal (SLReddit-sorry I have no clue how to find the original tweet, I'm SM naive)
posted by newpotato at 4:12 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
posted by newpotato at 4:12 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
If there's an appeal, I bet it's more of the "You're violating his/my/our First Amendment Rights!" crap she tried over and over during the trial. And no, that's not meritorious, but as long as the grift holds out, redirected PAC money will keep the process going. It's not like her practice has any partners she needs to answer to.
posted by mikelieman at 5:01 PM on January 27 [1 favorite]
posted by mikelieman at 5:01 PM on January 27 [1 favorite]
stories about how badly run the various Trump businesses are aren't exactly a new thing.
The man managed to go bankrupt running a casino. A casino.
What, realistically, would his stupid fraud empire going down in flames look like? Rich people go "bankrupt" all the time but none of them wind up living in cardboard boxes like the villains from Trading Places, and depending on who you ask Trump has been "broke" at various points in his life but never had to spend a day living outside of (tacky, but still) luxury.
Mar a Lago is worth somewhere between 250 million to a billion dollars depending on whose estimating. Money in the middle range to pay both suits.
If only that were the case, but it can't work.
Carroll was only able to sue because of a one time law that opened up the statute of limitations for civil court cases way beyond what it normally is. This was done mostly for adult survivors of childhood abuse, but it has had the side effect of allowing many many women of all sorts to bring civil lawsuits against their abusers.
Its not like he ever stops criming. I'd bet there are lots of victims still within statue of limitation range for a variety of crimes.
posted by Mitheral at 5:35 PM on January 27 [9 favorites]
The man managed to go bankrupt running a casino. A casino.
What, realistically, would his stupid fraud empire going down in flames look like? Rich people go "bankrupt" all the time but none of them wind up living in cardboard boxes like the villains from Trading Places, and depending on who you ask Trump has been "broke" at various points in his life but never had to spend a day living outside of (tacky, but still) luxury.
Mar a Lago is worth somewhere between 250 million to a billion dollars depending on whose estimating. Money in the middle range to pay both suits.
If only that were the case, but it can't work.
Carroll was only able to sue because of a one time law that opened up the statute of limitations for civil court cases way beyond what it normally is. This was done mostly for adult survivors of childhood abuse, but it has had the side effect of allowing many many women of all sorts to bring civil lawsuits against their abusers.
Its not like he ever stops criming. I'd bet there are lots of victims still within statue of limitation range for a variety of crimes.
posted by Mitheral at 5:35 PM on January 27 [9 favorites]
You can understand that Trump is vile, lying, corrupt, utterly without redeeming qualities. If you have wealth, if you're on a corporate board, you'll support his candidacy because he lowered taxes on the wealthy. The wealthy are getting steadily wealthier, aggregating control, and Trump will enable that. If you're a yahoo - racist, sexist, deplorable, wilfully uninformed - you may be led to believe that Trump is strong, tough, powerful and you'll support him because it gives you that nice feeling in your gut and in your pants. Trump knows that as long as he's a candidate and popular figurehead, he'll get money and mayyybeee a pardon.
Bizarrely, newspapers don't make the case against Trump in a cohesive way, and only tentatively show Biden as a healthy, smart, successful winner who's been quite good for the country.
Trump and Fox News have damaged the US deeply and even when he loses, which I anticipate, it will take a lot of time and effort to address the damage. Good for Ms. Carroll; I think she'll at least get the 5 million bond and I hope she enjoys spending it and I hope she gets the rest. I broke out a little bottle of bubbly because it's good to celebrate when a bad person is held to account.
posted by theora55 at 6:44 PM on January 27 [13 favorites]
Bizarrely, newspapers don't make the case against Trump in a cohesive way, and only tentatively show Biden as a healthy, smart, successful winner who's been quite good for the country.
Trump and Fox News have damaged the US deeply and even when he loses, which I anticipate, it will take a lot of time and effort to address the damage. Good for Ms. Carroll; I think she'll at least get the 5 million bond and I hope she enjoys spending it and I hope she gets the rest. I broke out a little bottle of bubbly because it's good to celebrate when a bad person is held to account.
posted by theora55 at 6:44 PM on January 27 [13 favorites]
Said it before say it again-- TFG has turned into an existential horror monster like in Philip K. Dick's Faith of Our Fathers crossed with a certain H.P. Lovecraft Dunwich Horror undead Cthuluvian undead monster god. Melting away before our eyes and ranting ever more dementedly and how much longer of this must we take? It's like trying not to think about a piebald horse. The Three Stigmata of Donald Eldritch.
The horror, the horror...
posted by y2karl at 7:38 PM on January 27 [8 favorites]
The horror, the horror...
posted by y2karl at 7:38 PM on January 27 [8 favorites]
I want to tell a parable. Well, not really, it feels like a fable but it's actually true. It's also a story about me and how I am dumb.
On the second day of Trump, a woman named Kellyanne lied, and she called these lies 'alternative facts'. This alerted my sensitivity to bullshit. This bullshit artist was married to a fella named George Conway.
I didn't like him either. He was a nevertrump republican - but, hey, do you know that 'alternative facts' woman? That famous liar? Yeah George, it undermines your credibility.
I also didn't like his face (this is where I am really dumb). In his television appearances he looked like he was treating his bee allergy by sky diving, while giving legal advice.
So I judged this guy, who he was married to, his toxic political party, and most unfairly, his face.
Now, George met Jean at a party. He's a lawyer, and when Jean told him about her problems, he said he knew people that could help. George Conway introduced EJC to the lawyers that won this case.
I'm sorry George, you made a good call and I have to respect that.
George divorced Kellyanne. There was a brief period when their daughter was internet famous, because she lived with a never-trumper lawyer and someone that lied for the whitehouse. And they are her parents!
Anyway,
posted by adept256 at 8:12 PM on January 27 [12 favorites]
On the second day of Trump, a woman named Kellyanne lied, and she called these lies 'alternative facts'. This alerted my sensitivity to bullshit. This bullshit artist was married to a fella named George Conway.
I didn't like him either. He was a nevertrump republican - but, hey, do you know that 'alternative facts' woman? That famous liar? Yeah George, it undermines your credibility.
I also didn't like his face (this is where I am really dumb). In his television appearances he looked like he was treating his bee allergy by sky diving, while giving legal advice.
So I judged this guy, who he was married to, his toxic political party, and most unfairly, his face.
Now, George met Jean at a party. He's a lawyer, and when Jean told him about her problems, he said he knew people that could help. George Conway introduced EJC to the lawyers that won this case.
I'm sorry George, you made a good call and I have to respect that.
George divorced Kellyanne. There was a brief period when their daughter was internet famous, because she lived with a never-trumper lawyer and someone that lied for the whitehouse. And they are her parents!
Anyway,
posted by adept256 at 8:12 PM on January 27 [12 favorites]
Sounds like someone forgot about the Bowling Green massacre.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:17 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 8:17 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
> Said it before say it again-- TFG has turned into an existential horror monster like in Philip K. Dick's Faith of Our Fathers crossed with a certain H.P. Lovecraft Dunwich Horror undead Cthuluvian undead monster god. Melting away before our eyes and ranting ever more dementedly and how much longer of this must we take? It's like trying not to think about a piebald horse. The Three Stigmata of Donald Eldritch.Ah, now that's a twist I hadn't expected. That's why TFG has been so creepily interested in Ivanka. She doesn't realize she's the Asenath Derby to her dad's Ephraim Waite.
The horror, the horror...
posted by Fiberoptic Zebroid and The Hypnagogic Jerks at 11:37 PM on January 27 [5 favorites]
You'd think the dead millionaires of Russia and China would get every rich american and american-adjacent to fight tooth and nail against USA democracy collapsing.
Proof that being rich doesn't require smarts I suppose.
posted by NotAYakk at 11:37 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
Proof that being rich doesn't require smarts I suppose.
posted by NotAYakk at 11:37 PM on January 27 [2 favorites]
I mean, Pod Save America just did an interview with Liz Cheney. They remarked repeatedly how this was nothing they expected, ever. This is how I also feel.
Agree. And I have mixed feelings about Liz Cheney's press tour. On the one hand, go Liz. She's the only Republican besides Adam Kinzinger and Mitt Romney who has said what is plain. On the other hand, she voted with Trump something like 93% and holds views that I find despicable. And I admire her.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:16 AM on January 28 [5 favorites]
Agree. And I have mixed feelings about Liz Cheney's press tour. On the one hand, go Liz. She's the only Republican besides Adam Kinzinger and Mitt Romney who has said what is plain. On the other hand, she voted with Trump something like 93% and holds views that I find despicable. And I admire her.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:16 AM on January 28 [5 favorites]
Proof that being rich doesn't require smarts I suppose.
I'd bet the people with massive wealth are even more susceptible to "leopards eating people's faces party" because they are so wealthy bad things rarely happen to them . Many are going to think they got there by being so smart and clever than of course the leopards won't be able to eat their face because they never have.
posted by Mitheral at 12:34 PM on January 28 [6 favorites]
I'd bet the people with massive wealth are even more susceptible to "leopards eating people's faces party" because they are so wealthy bad things rarely happen to them . Many are going to think they got there by being so smart and clever than of course the leopards won't be able to eat their face because they never have.
posted by Mitheral at 12:34 PM on January 28 [6 favorites]
Carroll was only able to sue because of a one time law that opened up the statute of limitations for civil court cases way beyond what it normally is.
Er, is that true? I thought she sued him for his recent defamation of her, not for his sexual assault of her from decades ago.
posted by orange swan at 6:24 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
Er, is that true? I thought she sued him for his recent defamation of her, not for his sexual assault of her from decades ago.
posted by orange swan at 6:24 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
EmpressCallipygos: Tzikeh, if YOU'RE that sick of him imagine what us New Yorkers feel about the snozfucker.
I grew up there in the 70s/80s. I don't need to imagine.
posted by tzikeh at 9:29 AM on January 29 [2 favorites]
I grew up there in the 70s/80s. I don't need to imagine.
posted by tzikeh at 9:29 AM on January 29 [2 favorites]
Trump's lawyer Habba didn't even know how to submit evidence for the trial, the judge had to walk her through it after she started questioning Carroll about a document that hadn't been entered into evidence:
https://youtu.be/ASU_wpcB-1I?t=438
It really demonstrates how Trump is forced to rely on stupid people who arrogantly overestimate their competence. People like him in other words. What a joke this man truly is. His previous lawyer parted company with him because his "compass" told him to.
posted by mokey at 12:21 PM on January 31 [2 favorites]
https://youtu.be/ASU_wpcB-1I?t=438
It really demonstrates how Trump is forced to rely on stupid people who arrogantly overestimate their competence. People like him in other words. What a joke this man truly is. His previous lawyer parted company with him because his "compass" told him to.
posted by mokey at 12:21 PM on January 31 [2 favorites]
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
Kaplan told the jury to disregard everything after “Yes, I did.”
Kaplan interjected that the jury should ignore everything Trump said after “no.”
This is how you deal with TFG.
posted by chavenet at 4:44 AM on January 27 [43 favorites]