"We have abortion where everybody wanted it from a legal standpoint."
April 8, 2024 5:30 AM Subscribe
Not wanting to be overshadowed by other events, Trump says abortion law should be left to the states (NYT gift, WaPo gift, Reuters, NPR, NBC, Politico, Axios)
what rhaomi said, ↑, yup.
target is to peel off low-info suburban voters who think abortion rights are important but are down with (or neutral to/ignorant of) the rest of the fash. it's a "smart" move by TFG's team (spits) and makes an uphill battle for dems even more so.
posted by lalochezia at 5:57 AM on April 8 [3 favorites]
target is to peel off low-info suburban voters who think abortion rights are important but are down with (or neutral to/ignorant of) the rest of the fash. it's a "smart" move by TFG's team (spits) and makes an uphill battle for dems even more so.
posted by lalochezia at 5:57 AM on April 8 [3 favorites]
sure, that's fine, you can just travel to a state where it's legal easily and not be prosecuted when you get home, right? states respect other states' rights, of course. we're all friends here.
posted by Clowder of bats at 5:58 AM on April 8 [8 favorites]
posted by Clowder of bats at 5:58 AM on April 8 [8 favorites]
trump says a lot of shit.
posted by adamrice at 6:10 AM on April 8 [37 favorites]
posted by adamrice at 6:10 AM on April 8 [37 favorites]
target is to peel off low-info suburban voters who think abortion rights are important but are down with (or neutral to/ignorant of) the rest of the fash.
Unless they live in blue states which would essentially void their votes, I don't understand how this would be effective. What woman is going to be like "Oh, I can just get on a plane to _____?"
posted by Selena777 at 6:23 AM on April 8 [3 favorites]
Unless they live in blue states which would essentially void their votes, I don't understand how this would be effective. What woman is going to be like "Oh, I can just get on a plane to _____?"
posted by Selena777 at 6:23 AM on April 8 [3 favorites]
He's trying the same thing with Gaza, saying whatever random thing to try and peel a few votes away from Biden. At this point he is completely immune from accusations of hypocrisy (his supporters don't care; anyone who cares already isn't going to vote for him) so he has nothing to lose by saying whatever he thinks might help himself.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:00 AM on April 8 [8 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 7:00 AM on April 8 [8 favorites]
Trump will say anything to anyone, and is not bound by shame, hypocrisy, or even logic.
In this speech, it seems like he is trying to say that from the perspective of morality, abortion should be totally banned, but that as a matter of practical expediency republicans need to relax their stance because it is so unpopular, and it is more important that republicans win elections than to campaign on their true beliefs about abortion.
posted by rustcrumb at 7:25 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
In this speech, it seems like he is trying to say that from the perspective of morality, abortion should be totally banned, but that as a matter of practical expediency republicans need to relax their stance because it is so unpopular, and it is more important that republicans win elections than to campaign on their true beliefs about abortion.
posted by rustcrumb at 7:25 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
Simultaneously takes credit and punts.
Everyone can hear what they want or need to.
posted by notyou at 7:27 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
Everyone can hear what they want or need to.
posted by notyou at 7:27 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
He’ll say whatever he needs to say to make people think that he’s on their side or that he cares or that he has a conscious thought about something. He is driven by an ever-present need for approval, by any means necessary.
This means that any action he takes follows the same principle, regardless of what he said earlier.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 7:39 AM on April 8 [1 favorite]
This means that any action he takes follows the same principle, regardless of what he said earlier.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 7:39 AM on April 8 [1 favorite]
What evidence do you have that he "will say anything necessary to get back into power"? Oh, perhaps the part of his abortion preview where he literally wrote that he was saying this because "we have an obligation ... TO WIN ELECTIONS."
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 7:58 AM on April 8 [3 favorites]
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 7:58 AM on April 8 [3 favorites]
yet another hazard of a 2-party system
over time, it's not really about governance and representation, it's about winning
Trump is just the big visible tip of the shitty iceberg, I'm sure we are all sick of hearing it but let's not kid ourselves
posted by elkevelvet at 8:05 AM on April 8 [4 favorites]
over time, it's not really about governance and representation, it's about winning
Trump is just the big visible tip of the shitty iceberg, I'm sure we are all sick of hearing it but let's not kid ourselves
posted by elkevelvet at 8:05 AM on April 8 [4 favorites]
Wish he would go back to staring directly at the sun.
posted by phunniemee at 8:11 AM on April 8 [28 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 8:11 AM on April 8 [28 favorites]
why is this criminal not in a prison cell
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:12 AM on April 8 [18 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:12 AM on April 8 [18 favorites]
So, he changed his mind. He'll change it back soon.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:14 AM on April 8
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:14 AM on April 8
Jessica Valenti pointed out on Bluesky this morning: the day he takes office again, he will replace the head of the FDA, who will cancel the telemedicine use of mifepristone. Then he will have the AG enforce the Comstock Act nationwide. They don't need to overrule Dobbs: they can make abortion impossible in every state by executive action.
posted by suelac at 8:44 AM on April 8 [31 favorites]
posted by suelac at 8:44 AM on April 8 [31 favorites]
I know the answer is that they don't really care and that everything takes time, but why the hell did we let the Comstock Act stay on the books? The Democrats need to devote at least 10% of their effort just to backfilling rights by officially repealing laws that are awful but no longer enforced. And I can't help but think it'd help them on the election trail as well as provide a way to embarrass Republicans.
"Senator RepublicanDude says he's in favor of smaller government, but he voted against repealing 217 out of date laws. Ask Senator RepublicanDude why he wants America's laws to be more complex."
posted by sotonohito at 8:54 AM on April 8 [7 favorites]
"Senator RepublicanDude says he's in favor of smaller government, but he voted against repealing 217 out of date laws. Ask Senator RepublicanDude why he wants America's laws to be more complex."
posted by sotonohito at 8:54 AM on April 8 [7 favorites]
Cori Bush brought it up, but Biden hasn't been a great goalie on the choice issue.
posted by Selena777 at 9:05 AM on April 8 [5 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 9:05 AM on April 8 [5 favorites]
honest question: who are people trying to convince anymore? who are "low information voters"
I don't think you win anyone over at this point. you mobilize the non-crazy, non-hateful people and you plan for a very combative 4 years of doing anything you can to forestall collapse into some version of dissolution/fascism
losing this election to the Complete Bastards would only accelerate the timeline we live in, the outcomes that are in progress.
posted by elkevelvet at 9:09 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
I don't think you win anyone over at this point. you mobilize the non-crazy, non-hateful people and you plan for a very combative 4 years of doing anything you can to forestall collapse into some version of dissolution/fascism
losing this election to the Complete Bastards would only accelerate the timeline we live in, the outcomes that are in progress.
posted by elkevelvet at 9:09 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
He did not say "should" - he said "will".
Media Matters : "Major news outlets are falsely claiming that Trump said abortion “should be left to the states” in a video announcement Monday on his Truth Social platform. In fact, Trump said only that abortion “will” be left to the states, a statement of law that does not address how he would respond if Congress passed a federal abortion ban or how regulators would treat abortion under a second Trump administration."
posted by m2ke at 9:09 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
Media Matters : "Major news outlets are falsely claiming that Trump said abortion “should be left to the states” in a video announcement Monday on his Truth Social platform. In fact, Trump said only that abortion “will” be left to the states, a statement of law that does not address how he would respond if Congress passed a federal abortion ban or how regulators would treat abortion under a second Trump administration."
posted by m2ke at 9:09 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
losing this election to the Complete Bastards would only accelerate the timeline we live in, the outcomes that are in progress.
Accelerationism is never helpful, least of all in this case. Nothing is inevitable in politics or history. Yes, fighting the "Complete Bastards" is hard. The very structure of American politics, for all the right's whinging about how mistreated they are, favors them-- from the electoral college and gerrymandering to the Senate and the nationalization of news. But not fighting is not an option as far as I'm concerned. The stakes are too high, too many people would suffer, too many people would die if the far right got to just romp to power. And every minute they're not in power is time that can be spent strengthening institutional guardrails against them, protecting vulnerable communities from them, trying to reform some of the institutional advantages that are, really, the only things that enable them to get into power (remember that, if not for the Electoral College, not a single Republican would have been elected President in the last 36 years).
I don't think Democrats always use that time wisely to pursue those goals, and some of them are simply not going to happen in the near future (the Electoral College is here to stay for a while). But Democrats being in power means we have a vehicle to push for those changes. Republicans in power means they will do anything they can to turn this country into a Turkey-esque hybrid regime that perpetuates their own hold on power, and implement policies with a proven track record of killing women, poor people, people of color, etc, etc. So I don't think it's helpful to throw up your hands and go, well, if America's collapse into far right autocracy is inevitable, might as well just let it happen. For one, it's not inevitable. For another, even if it was, staving it off saves lives, so it's worth doing.
honest question: who are people trying to convince anymore? who are "low information voters"
I mean, we know who they are. They're not a new or unstudied phenomenon, and they are absolutely one of the driving factors behind the incredibly awful shape of American politics today.
posted by Method Man at 9:25 AM on April 8 [6 favorites]
Accelerationism is never helpful, least of all in this case. Nothing is inevitable in politics or history. Yes, fighting the "Complete Bastards" is hard. The very structure of American politics, for all the right's whinging about how mistreated they are, favors them-- from the electoral college and gerrymandering to the Senate and the nationalization of news. But not fighting is not an option as far as I'm concerned. The stakes are too high, too many people would suffer, too many people would die if the far right got to just romp to power. And every minute they're not in power is time that can be spent strengthening institutional guardrails against them, protecting vulnerable communities from them, trying to reform some of the institutional advantages that are, really, the only things that enable them to get into power (remember that, if not for the Electoral College, not a single Republican would have been elected President in the last 36 years).
I don't think Democrats always use that time wisely to pursue those goals, and some of them are simply not going to happen in the near future (the Electoral College is here to stay for a while). But Democrats being in power means we have a vehicle to push for those changes. Republicans in power means they will do anything they can to turn this country into a Turkey-esque hybrid regime that perpetuates their own hold on power, and implement policies with a proven track record of killing women, poor people, people of color, etc, etc. So I don't think it's helpful to throw up your hands and go, well, if America's collapse into far right autocracy is inevitable, might as well just let it happen. For one, it's not inevitable. For another, even if it was, staving it off saves lives, so it's worth doing.
honest question: who are people trying to convince anymore? who are "low information voters"
I mean, we know who they are. They're not a new or unstudied phenomenon, and they are absolutely one of the driving factors behind the incredibly awful shape of American politics today.
posted by Method Man at 9:25 AM on April 8 [6 favorites]
The media tries to help abortion ban architect Trump escape blame (Oliver Willis)
The press clearly understands that Trump’s role in the abortion rollbacks is key, and that voters hate it. So in an informal joint operation, Trump is lying about where he stands and the press pumps out the lie.posted by box at 9:26 AM on April 8 [6 favorites]
News orgs botch Trump's statement by leaving important context out of headlines (Parker Molloy)
posted by box at 9:51 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 9:51 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
Occasionally, when the lotto sign at the 7-11 climbs up into the billions (as it did last week), I fantasize about what I'd do with a windfall like that. Recently, it popped into my head to buy a bunch of political advertising (billboards, FB ads, whatever) with the message: "A Vote for the GOP is a Vote for a National Abortion Ban: No Exceptions, No Excuses, No Mercy". The idea would be to, as the marxists say, heighten the contradictions, specifically for the fence-sitters who might think there is some wiggle room or compromise to be found here (spoiler alert: there is not). It also has the benefit of being actually true.
posted by mhum at 10:09 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
posted by mhum at 10:09 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
In brief, fuck that guy.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:53 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:53 AM on April 8 [2 favorites]
mhum it would likely be more financially efficient to just buy a couple congressional reps or a senator.
posted by Wretch729 at 11:10 AM on April 8 [5 favorites]
posted by Wretch729 at 11:10 AM on April 8 [5 favorites]
Cori Bush brought it up, but Biden hasn't been a great goalie on the choice issue.
At this point, this sort of line is just doing a solid for TFG and giving progs a little more cover for sitting on their thumbs in November. Perfect being the enemy of good, and all that.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:33 AM on April 8 [11 favorites]
At this point, this sort of line is just doing a solid for TFG and giving progs a little more cover for sitting on their thumbs in November. Perfect being the enemy of good, and all that.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:33 AM on April 8 [11 favorites]
just doing a solid for TFG
Is it a valid criticism, though?
posted by elkevelvet at 12:59 PM on April 8 [3 favorites]
Is it a valid criticism, though?
posted by elkevelvet at 12:59 PM on April 8 [3 favorites]
As far as Trump and abortion is concerned, there's no need to carefully parse should and will or anything in is mad postings. It isn't as if he actually has a real position on abortion, he doesn't care.
If the Republicans pass a national ban and he's President he will sign it. The end.
I doubt even the enlightened centrists at the NYT are unaware of, or even capable of plausibly denying, that simple truth. Anyone who goes on a deep dive into the actual meaning of the words Trump spews is making a category error.
Trump's words are like the words in a song. They exist to convey an emotion, and while there is a meaning to the words the details are fuzzy and trying to get into exactly what each word means is missing the point entirely.
So yeah, Trump said "will" instead of "should". That doesn't matter in the slightest. Even if he wasn't a bullshitter who makes absolutely no distinction between truth and falsehood in his thinking and speaking, it wouldn't matter. It wouldn't matter even if Trump were a regular politician like Romney.
ANY Republican President is going to sign a national abortion ban if it is passed by Congress. This isn't just a Trump thing. This is a Republican thing.
posted by sotonohito at 1:25 PM on April 8 [18 favorites]
If the Republicans pass a national ban and he's President he will sign it. The end.
I doubt even the enlightened centrists at the NYT are unaware of, or even capable of plausibly denying, that simple truth. Anyone who goes on a deep dive into the actual meaning of the words Trump spews is making a category error.
Trump's words are like the words in a song. They exist to convey an emotion, and while there is a meaning to the words the details are fuzzy and trying to get into exactly what each word means is missing the point entirely.
So yeah, Trump said "will" instead of "should". That doesn't matter in the slightest. Even if he wasn't a bullshitter who makes absolutely no distinction between truth and falsehood in his thinking and speaking, it wouldn't matter. It wouldn't matter even if Trump were a regular politician like Romney.
ANY Republican President is going to sign a national abortion ban if it is passed by Congress. This isn't just a Trump thing. This is a Republican thing.
posted by sotonohito at 1:25 PM on April 8 [18 favorites]
the day he takes office again, he will replace the head of the FDA, who will cancel the telemedicine use of mifepristone. Then he will have the AG enforce the Comstock Act nationwide. They don't need to overrule Dobbs: they can make abortion impossible in every state by executive action.
posted by suelac
This.
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:31 PM on April 8 [4 favorites]
posted by suelac
This.
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:31 PM on April 8 [4 favorites]
He is a windsock, formless, waiting to see which way the wind blows. The media cannot figure out how to cover the windsock.
posted by zerobyproxy at 1:35 PM on April 8 [3 favorites]
posted by zerobyproxy at 1:35 PM on April 8 [3 favorites]
Here’s the White House’s latest fact sheet on their stance and actions on reproductive rights. I don’t think it’s correct to say the Biden administration has been a bad goalie. The Supreme Court owns this one. That’s why we need to avoid letting Trump win no matter how we feel about Gaza (I’m talking to myself here). Those seats are the true source of power until we manage to rewrite the Constitution. Well, those seats and all the other judgeships being infiltrated by enemies of democracy like the Federalist Society and Christian domionists.
posted by caviar2d2 at 2:50 PM on April 8 [11 favorites]
posted by caviar2d2 at 2:50 PM on April 8 [11 favorites]
Trump says abortion will be left to the states. Don’t believe him. (NYT gift, Michelle Goldberg op-ed, mostly about Comstock):
posted by box at 5:21 PM on April 8
posted by box at 5:21 PM on April 8
This sentence in the NYT's analysis piece kind of sums it up, in terms of him not risking any consequences as he tries out messaging to reach other voters:
None of the [pro-life] critics said they planned on withholding their support for Mr. Trump in November, an indication that the former president may not pay a very high price for failing to adopt a more aggressive federal position.
He's keeping his current voters no matter what he says; his hope is that by fine-tuning his messaging on this and other issues he can peel off a few voters here, a few voters there from Biden.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:13 PM on April 8
None of the [pro-life] critics said they planned on withholding their support for Mr. Trump in November, an indication that the former president may not pay a very high price for failing to adopt a more aggressive federal position.
He's keeping his current voters no matter what he says; his hope is that by fine-tuning his messaging on this and other issues he can peel off a few voters here, a few voters there from Biden.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:13 PM on April 8
Peeling off Biden voters is RFK Jr's goal, as well. He has no hope of winning, but a member of his NY state campaign has already admitted that the aim is to help Trump, either by depressing voter turnout or otherwise shifting the numbers in Trump's benefit — even to get the election tied and decided by a right-wing extremist Congress.
Something I am keeping in the back of my mind, when consuming mainstream media related to Gaza and Israel, as well as on social media networks, including MetaFilter.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:13 PM on April 8 [2 favorites]
Something I am keeping in the back of my mind, when consuming mainstream media related to Gaza and Israel, as well as on social media networks, including MetaFilter.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:13 PM on April 8 [2 favorites]
I really hope that the US is eventually able to get back to a point where you can be critical of the government without being immediate accusations of working for foreign governments or domestic fascists. But I don't think we are going to.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:12 AM on April 9 [3 favorites]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:12 AM on April 9 [3 favorites]
I really hope that the US is eventually able to get back to a point where you can be critical of the government without being immediate accusations of working for foreign governments or domestic fascists. But I don't think we are going to.
It's always easiest to see the disinformation at work when it's something you disagree with. Like in this Guardian article, where a couple of senior House republicans point out the obvious, that their colleagues are repeating Russian disinformation:
Mike Turner, the chairperson of the US House intelligence committee, says some of his fellow Republicans are “absolutely” repeating Russian propaganda on the chamber floor, echoing a similar claim made recently by another rightwing American lawmaker.
“It is absolutely true we see, directly coming from Russia, attempts to mask communications that are anti-Ukraine and pro-Russia messages, some of which we even hear being uttered on the House floor,” the Ohio congressman told CNN’s State of the Union show.
But the fact that they are repeating this disinformation doesn't mean that they didn't come to their opinions relatively organically, either. As it keeps getting pointed out in these threads, it's not a simplistic "dupes get brainwashed by propaganda," it's a complex interplay of push-and-pull, and a lot of it is in selectively boosting some messages but not others.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:43 AM on April 9
It's always easiest to see the disinformation at work when it's something you disagree with. Like in this Guardian article, where a couple of senior House republicans point out the obvious, that their colleagues are repeating Russian disinformation:
Mike Turner, the chairperson of the US House intelligence committee, says some of his fellow Republicans are “absolutely” repeating Russian propaganda on the chamber floor, echoing a similar claim made recently by another rightwing American lawmaker.
“It is absolutely true we see, directly coming from Russia, attempts to mask communications that are anti-Ukraine and pro-Russia messages, some of which we even hear being uttered on the House floor,” the Ohio congressman told CNN’s State of the Union show.
But the fact that they are repeating this disinformation doesn't mean that they didn't come to their opinions relatively organically, either. As it keeps getting pointed out in these threads, it's not a simplistic "dupes get brainwashed by propaganda," it's a complex interplay of push-and-pull, and a lot of it is in selectively boosting some messages but not others.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:43 AM on April 9
Yes, but this post is about abortion and Trump's shameless willingness to say anything, however contradictory, to get approval. And the meerest refeence to the election was enough to provoke veiled accusations of secret Trump supporters on Metafilter. That seems like an unhealthy level paranoia and hostility towards anyone who doesn't toe the party line.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 7:01 AM on April 9 [3 favorites]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 7:01 AM on April 9 [3 favorites]
enough to provoke veiled accusations of secret Trump supporters on Metafilter.
it's worth pointing out that if you pull back just a bit, you can see that people are largely in agreement on the main issue in this thread. upthread, it looks to me like a commenter decided I was advocating for accelerationism (?), not sure, but my comment was not clear enough because I was simply stating fact: if TFG wins, it will just be an acceleration of a trend in US politics. my point is, people zero in on what they want to find and frankly we can all be careless readers/commenters, and I'm not sure anyone is really accusing anyone else (here) of being secret Trump supporters.
in short: let's not accelerate to the worst conclusions?
posted by elkevelvet at 7:42 AM on April 9 [3 favorites]
it's worth pointing out that if you pull back just a bit, you can see that people are largely in agreement on the main issue in this thread. upthread, it looks to me like a commenter decided I was advocating for accelerationism (?), not sure, but my comment was not clear enough because I was simply stating fact: if TFG wins, it will just be an acceleration of a trend in US politics. my point is, people zero in on what they want to find and frankly we can all be careless readers/commenters, and I'm not sure anyone is really accusing anyone else (here) of being secret Trump supporters.
in short: let's not accelerate to the worst conclusions?
posted by elkevelvet at 7:42 AM on April 9 [3 favorites]
upthread, it looks to me like a commenter decided I was advocating for accelerationism (?), not sure, but my comment was not clear enough because I was simply stating fact: if TFG wins, it will just be an acceleration of a trend in US politics
I apologize, sounds like I misunderstood your comment.
I'm sure folks here have already seen it, but Arizona's Supreme Court ruled that, with Roe v Wade gone, an anti-abortion law passed before Arizona even became a state will go back into effect. Obviously we know all this 'leave it to the states' rhetoric is crap and that Republicans won't hesitate to pass a nationwide ban of some kind if they can-- but this is Exhibit Z (alongside the laws passed by states like Texas and Oklahoma and Alabama) of what sincerely 'leaving it to the states' actually looks like: more antiquated policies that put women's bodily autonomy through the shredder and risk the lives of countless people.
posted by Method Man at 12:41 PM on April 9 [7 favorites]
I apologize, sounds like I misunderstood your comment.
I'm sure folks here have already seen it, but Arizona's Supreme Court ruled that, with Roe v Wade gone, an anti-abortion law passed before Arizona even became a state will go back into effect. Obviously we know all this 'leave it to the states' rhetoric is crap and that Republicans won't hesitate to pass a nationwide ban of some kind if they can-- but this is Exhibit Z (alongside the laws passed by states like Texas and Oklahoma and Alabama) of what sincerely 'leaving it to the states' actually looks like: more antiquated policies that put women's bodily autonomy through the shredder and risk the lives of countless people.
posted by Method Man at 12:41 PM on April 9 [7 favorites]
> trump says a lot of shit.
posted by adamrice
He says nothing but shit.
> yet another hazard of a 2-party system
posted by elkevelvet
Of a FPTP voting system.
posted by Pouteria at 12:06 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
posted by adamrice
He says nothing but shit.
> yet another hazard of a 2-party system
posted by elkevelvet
Of a FPTP voting system.
posted by Pouteria at 12:06 PM on April 10 [1 favorite]
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