History Doesn't Repeat But It Sometimes Rhymes
May 15, 2024 12:35 PM Subscribe
Slovakia’s populist prime minister shot in assassination attempt, shocking Europe before elections [AP]
Who is Slovak populist prime minister Robert Fico? [Sky]
What do we know about Robert Fico's alleged shooter? [Euronews]
Robert Fico shooting was ‘politically motivated,’ Slovak officials say [Politico]
Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria
Who is Slovak populist prime minister Robert Fico? [Sky]
What do we know about Robert Fico's alleged shooter? [Euronews]
Robert Fico shooting was ‘politically motivated,’ Slovak officials say [Politico]
Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria
The first thing I did when I saw this news was look at a map to see how close Slovakia is to Sarajevo. Not that physical proximity is what matters, really, but somehow I really needed to know that precise piece of information.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:46 PM on May 15 [8 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 12:46 PM on May 15 [8 favorites]
"populist" - hey, sounds like he's maybe (1) really popular or (2) believes the populace should control the government.
(1) - secured nearly 23% of the votes
(2) - sympathetic to Russia's Vladimir Putin
Hate that the media uses that new fangled sexy term for right wingers.
posted by airing nerdy laundry at 12:53 PM on May 15 [44 favorites]
(1) - secured nearly 23% of the votes
(2) - sympathetic to Russia's Vladimir Putin
Hate that the media uses that new fangled sexy term for right wingers.
posted by airing nerdy laundry at 12:53 PM on May 15 [44 favorites]
'The Slovakian Trump', harshly anti-LGBT, pro-Russian and with ties to Orban. At first it doesn't make sense why he'd be killed by a right wing militia guy.
This might be like the Smolensk plane disaster which killed Polish President Lech Kaczynski... the destruction of that cabinet radicalized the PIS and led to an even more right wing government in Poland.
Similarly, Fico might be more useful to the Slovak national party as a martyr than a leader. They can use his death a pretext to really crack down, cancel elections, ensure a permanent autocratic reign...
posted by LeRoienJaune at 1:02 PM on May 15 [14 favorites]
This might be like the Smolensk plane disaster which killed Polish President Lech Kaczynski... the destruction of that cabinet radicalized the PIS and led to an even more right wing government in Poland.
Similarly, Fico might be more useful to the Slovak national party as a martyr than a leader. They can use his death a pretext to really crack down, cancel elections, ensure a permanent autocratic reign...
posted by LeRoienJaune at 1:02 PM on May 15 [14 favorites]
Somebody must have been really mad about their credit score.
posted by dr_dank at 1:13 PM on May 15 [16 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 1:13 PM on May 15 [16 favorites]
Maybe lets not jump to conclusions about Fico's politics when probably very few of us know what we are talking about. Right-wing does not seem to an apt description.
posted by ssg at 1:13 PM on May 15 [3 favorites]
posted by ssg at 1:13 PM on May 15 [3 favorites]
Populism doesn't mean being popular or believing in government by the people. It usually refers to a strategy of giving "the people" what they want as a means to get or maintain popular support, whether or not it's actually a good move long-term for the country; "the people" here is some numerically powerful group and "what they want" is sometimes things like jobs, food, and healthcare, but historically has tended towards easier things like tax breaks, getting rid of or oppressing immigrants, getting rid of or oppressing other "undesirable" types of people like ethnic, religious, or queer minorities, getting rid of "elites" and "elitist intellectuals", etc. etc. etc.
It's often associated with charismatic dictators and, you know, the side of the political spectrum that likes siccing an in-group against out-groups; these days in the US and Europe the right wing has taken an increasingly populist tack. This is not the only form populism can take - for example, you might call Biden's student debt elimination moves populist, especially if he were much, much more vocal about it - but it is a frequently repeated pattern and using the word to refer to that is the standard usage, not anything newfangled. You can be populist on any side of the political spectrum, but in practice these days it really is often the right.
Here's a quick article (from the BBC, so I guess look for other sources if you want an outsider analysis of the term) about how it's been applied in the past and today. Here's wikipedia.
posted by trig at 1:25 PM on May 15 [37 favorites]
It's often associated with charismatic dictators and, you know, the side of the political spectrum that likes siccing an in-group against out-groups; these days in the US and Europe the right wing has taken an increasingly populist tack. This is not the only form populism can take - for example, you might call Biden's student debt elimination moves populist, especially if he were much, much more vocal about it - but it is a frequently repeated pattern and using the word to refer to that is the standard usage, not anything newfangled. You can be populist on any side of the political spectrum, but in practice these days it really is often the right.
Here's a quick article (from the BBC, so I guess look for other sources if you want an outsider analysis of the term) about how it's been applied in the past and today. Here's wikipedia.
posted by trig at 1:25 PM on May 15 [37 favorites]
Maybe lets not jump to conclusions ... when probably very few of us know what we are talking about.
heh heh, you just typed that on the internet.
posted by thecincinnatikid at 1:27 PM on May 15 [22 favorites]
heh heh, you just typed that on the internet.
posted by thecincinnatikid at 1:27 PM on May 15 [22 favorites]
Hate that the media uses that new fangled sexy term for right wingers.
The term has been used consistently for a long time, at least since the very late 1800s, usually to describe the same sort of politician. It's only really since the rise of Trump, Orban, etc. that it started getting used a lot in the media, though.
He sounds like an asshole, but I don't like to see assassinations, especially in this part of the world.
I'd agree with this.
posted by Dip Flash at 1:37 PM on May 15 [2 favorites]
The term has been used consistently for a long time, at least since the very late 1800s, usually to describe the same sort of politician. It's only really since the rise of Trump, Orban, etc. that it started getting used a lot in the media, though.
He sounds like an asshole, but I don't like to see assassinations, especially in this part of the world.
I'd agree with this.
posted by Dip Flash at 1:37 PM on May 15 [2 favorites]
Sounds like the attacker was loudly pro-Russia, anti-Roma. This is via Google Translate:
The man who attacked Robert Fico on Wednesday met with the pro-Russian group Slovenský branci in the past, Hungarian investigative journalist Szabolcs Panyi reported . In 2016, Slovenský branci shared a photo on Facebook that included the assassin.posted by BungaDunga at 1:38 PM on May 15 [2 favorites]
Juraj C., in a post shared by Slovenský branci, describes what attracted him to this pro-Russian group at the time. As the first reason he cites "the ability to act without the order of the state", as the second "selfless zeal". He claims that "hundreds of thousands of migrants" are coming to Europe, while the conscripts want to protect Slovakia from their influence as "patriots".
In another post, he wrote that the state cannot protect its citizens, and therefore the citizens themselves should protect the public space before it is "filled with criminal elements."
Right-wing does not seem to an apt description.
Loves Putin and Orban, a fash is a fash. Usually it’s the opponents of people like that who get assassinated so I have to wonder what’s up with that. Could just be that lying down with crazies gets you this.
posted by Artw at 1:40 PM on May 15 [13 favorites]
Loves Putin and Orban, a fash is a fash. Usually it’s the opponents of people like that who get assassinated so I have to wonder what’s up with that. Could just be that lying down with crazies gets you this.
posted by Artw at 1:40 PM on May 15 [13 favorites]
Gavrilo Princip could kill for a sandwich.
Because he did not want to be Hungary.
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 1:51 PM on May 15 [10 favorites]
Because he did not want to be Hungary.
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 1:51 PM on May 15 [10 favorites]
It's only really since the rise of Trump, Orban, etc. that it started getting used a lot in the media, though.
I can't check it now but I feel like I often saw the term in US news coverage in previous decades - just usually in the context of Latin America and non-"first world" countries.
posted by trig at 2:03 PM on May 15 [5 favorites]
I can't check it now but I feel like I often saw the term in US news coverage in previous decades - just usually in the context of Latin America and non-"first world" countries.
posted by trig at 2:03 PM on May 15 [5 favorites]
Quickly, assemble a conference of the Concert of Europe!
posted by credulous at 2:04 PM on May 15 [3 favorites]
posted by credulous at 2:04 PM on May 15 [3 favorites]
Similarly, Fico might be more useful to the Slovak national party as a martyr than a leader. They can use his death a pretext to really crack down, cancel elections, ensure a permanent autocratic reign...
The Russian security services have never been shy about acting outside of Russia...
posted by star gentle uterus at 2:12 PM on May 15 [2 favorites]
The Russian security services have never been shy about acting outside of Russia...
posted by star gentle uterus at 2:12 PM on May 15 [2 favorites]
A lot of the things Biden's administration has done are populist - a counterweight to the idea that only the right has in recent years been populist - and it sucks that he doesn't get credit for them.
posted by subdee at 2:29 PM on May 15 [3 favorites]
posted by subdee at 2:29 PM on May 15 [3 favorites]
Andrew Jackson, who would be the U.S.A.' s shittiest president (1829-1837) if it weren't for recent events, was a populist and is regularly referred to as that, so it's not a new term being thrown around. We just have a lot more of them lately.
from the above article Understanding the Global Rise of Populism:
But what then is populism? The answer to this simple question is by no means clear. Populism reflects a deep suspicion of the prevailing establishment; that this establishment in the view of most populists does not just rule in the common good but conspires against the people; and that the people, however defined, are the true repositories of the soul of the nation.
Certainly fits lots of right-wingers now, but the term is by no means limited to that branch of the spectrum. RFKjr, for example, is clearly a populist candidate, and while certainly out there is not specifically right wing.
posted by mcstayinskool at 2:38 PM on May 15 [2 favorites]
from the above article Understanding the Global Rise of Populism:
But what then is populism? The answer to this simple question is by no means clear. Populism reflects a deep suspicion of the prevailing establishment; that this establishment in the view of most populists does not just rule in the common good but conspires against the people; and that the people, however defined, are the true repositories of the soul of the nation.
Certainly fits lots of right-wingers now, but the term is by no means limited to that branch of the spectrum. RFKjr, for example, is clearly a populist candidate, and while certainly out there is not specifically right wing.
posted by mcstayinskool at 2:38 PM on May 15 [2 favorites]
I do not know much about Slovakian political formations, but the US/Canada/UK general rule that the Right is united and the Left divided is not some fixed rule. There have been many times when the Right was also fragmented, and the Fascist groups have often come off worse against other Authoritarian Rightist groups (e.g. Romania and Spain in the 30s and 40s). The articles linked suggest that the alleged shooter and his target shared broad political views -- nationalism, pro-Russia, racist towards Roma, etc -- but it would take a great deal more familiarity with the country's political landscape (and better English-language reporting) to see where there might have been gaps between them wide enough to explain the attack. It's also possible that the shooter had a personal grudge or was delusional or any number of other factors that would overcome political fellow-traveling.
I don't suppose there's a MeFite expert on Slovakian politics around....
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:52 PM on May 15 [9 favorites]
I don't suppose there's a MeFite expert on Slovakian politics around....
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:52 PM on May 15 [9 favorites]
I can't check it now but I feel like I often saw the term in US news coverage in previous decades - just usually in the context of Latin America and non-"first world" countries.
That's a good point. I think that back then it was usually tucked in an article on page A-9, and now it is on the front page pretty consistently.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:19 PM on May 15 [1 favorite]
That's a good point. I think that back then it was usually tucked in an article on page A-9, and now it is on the front page pretty consistently.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:19 PM on May 15 [1 favorite]
The US had a "Populist Party" at the turn of the 19th century, William Jennings Bryan was its leader for awhile.
Here's a brief history:
The Populists reiterated a long-significant question in the American experience: Why do some have and others have not? Historians can find similar patterns of populist agitation throughout all of US history, particularly when examining the interests and points of view of rural vs. urban citizens. As Populists challenged the increasing power of the moneyed interests in the national economy, they paved the way for a movement of broad social reform that would sweep the nation throughout the early twentieth century.
a-and... Wikipedia
posted by chavenet at 3:52 PM on May 15 [2 favorites]
Here's a brief history:
The Populists reiterated a long-significant question in the American experience: Why do some have and others have not? Historians can find similar patterns of populist agitation throughout all of US history, particularly when examining the interests and points of view of rural vs. urban citizens. As Populists challenged the increasing power of the moneyed interests in the national economy, they paved the way for a movement of broad social reform that would sweep the nation throughout the early twentieth century.
a-and... Wikipedia
posted by chavenet at 3:52 PM on May 15 [2 favorites]
Why do some have and others have not?
It’s because of elites! Which could mean rich jerks who own everything, but more often than not it’s some other group, who coincidentally are people rich right wingers don’t like.
posted by Artw at 4:01 PM on May 15 [9 favorites]
It’s because of elites! Which could mean rich jerks who own everything, but more often than not it’s some other group, who coincidentally are people rich right wingers don’t like.
posted by Artw at 4:01 PM on May 15 [9 favorites]
Looks like he's getting better. TBD whether we remain in the darkest timeline.
posted by credulous at 4:15 PM on May 15 [2 favorites]
posted by credulous at 4:15 PM on May 15 [2 favorites]
I hope he recovers and quits his job and never speaks in public again.
posted by GoblinHoney at 6:13 PM on May 15 [7 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 6:13 PM on May 15 [7 favorites]
A gunman shot Slovakia’s prime minister. Here’s what you need to know.
posted by Artw at 6:29 PM on May 15 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:29 PM on May 15 [2 favorites]
Gavrilo Princip could kill for a sandwich.
You do know the whole sandwich thing is a myth ?
posted by Pendragon at 12:30 AM on May 16 [1 favorite]
You do know the whole sandwich thing is a myth ?
posted by Pendragon at 12:30 AM on May 16 [1 favorite]
Artw, that’s a really helpful explainer, although we’re no closer to having an idea of the shooters motivations, since there are so many possible divisions. My takeaway is that thinking of Slovakian politics in a Right-Left paradigm is probably a mistake, since the central issues, pro- or anti-government and pro-Russia vs pro-EU/America seem more dominant and, perhaps, cutting across other concerns.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:43 AM on May 16 [2 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:43 AM on May 16 [2 favorites]
“No man can stop me!” - Archduke Franz Ferdinand, via The Onion
posted by Huggiesbear at 5:40 AM on May 16 [2 favorites]
posted by Huggiesbear at 5:40 AM on May 16 [2 favorites]
Mod note: A comment and response removed. Please avoid hateful content and allow others to express themselves as mentioned in the Guidelines and Content Policy.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:38 AM on May 16 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:38 AM on May 16 [1 favorite]
Lily Lynch: Crosshairs (New Left Review, Sidecar):
If the shooter’s precise motives are unknown, the attempts to define them have nonetheless been telling. Moscow alleged Ukrainian involvement; right-wing conspiracists pointed the finger at the vaccine lobby; establishment commentators swung between implying that Fico had it coming given his support for Russia, and that Russia itself must be responsible.posted by kmt at 8:51 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]
Assuming Russia is responsible for anything they blame on other people is never actually a bad bet.
posted by Artw at 9:12 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 9:12 AM on May 17 [1 favorite]
establishment commentators swung between implying that Fico had it coming given his support for Russia, and that Russia itself must be responsible.
This is not necessarily a contradiction, see for instance the killing of Darya Dugina. Fascist and corrupt regimes and their clients are usually very vulnerable to infighting and internal power struggles for position/favor, etc., or it could have been a false flag to suppress opposition. There are many possibilities.
And yes, all fascists have it coming.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 12:12 PM on May 17
This is not necessarily a contradiction, see for instance the killing of Darya Dugina. Fascist and corrupt regimes and their clients are usually very vulnerable to infighting and internal power struggles for position/favor, etc., or it could have been a false flag to suppress opposition. There are many possibilities.
And yes, all fascists have it coming.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 12:12 PM on May 17
This is a derail, but I don't really see your point re Darya Dugina. At this point it is almost certain that the SBU assasinated her: U.S. Believes Ukrainians Were Behind an Assassination in Russia (NYT).
posted by kmt at 12:27 PM on May 17
posted by kmt at 12:27 PM on May 17
It’s a posibility, but that just seems to be speculation from unnamed officials.
posted by Artw at 12:51 PM on May 17 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 12:51 PM on May 17 [1 favorite]
I really don't see what is the point denying the obvious.
Budanov is on the record admitting that they have assasinated russian propagandists. Ukraine Admits It Assassinated Russian Propagandists (Newsweek):
posted by kmt at 1:22 PM on May 17
Budanov is on the record admitting that they have assasinated russian propagandists. Ukraine Admits It Assassinated Russian Propagandists (Newsweek):
Major General Kyrylo Budanov made the admission to the Ukrainian YouTube channel Rizni Lyudi. According to a translation by the independent Russian-language outlet Meduza, Budanov said that Ukraine had "successfully targeted quite a few people" associated with Kremlin propaganda since the start of the war nearly 15 months ago.This is a derail, totally not relevant to the discussion on Fico (or for that matter to the article I posted above).
...
Though he didn't give more details about Ukraine's involvement in any Russian propagandists' deaths, Budanov told Rizni Lyudi that "[t]here have been well-publicized cases everyone knows about, thanks to the media coverage."
On Tuesday, Budanov also spoke to the Ukrainian YouTube channel ISLND TV. During the interview, he hinted at targeting individuals in countries outside of Ukraine, according to a translation by the Kyiv Post.
"Outright scum will eventually be punished in any country in the world. Only elimination can be a well-deserved punishment for such actions," Budanov said, per the Kyiv Post.
He continued, "I do not consider anything else. It is my personal opinion, I stick to it, and I will implement it."
posted by kmt at 1:22 PM on May 17
I mean, if the Ukrainians killed Dugina, good for them, but the confusion and long-time speculation about who did it should be proof enough that, in the world of Putinist fascists, there are many threats, not all of them obvious.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 2:55 PM on May 17
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 2:55 PM on May 17
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posted by pracowity at 12:43 PM on May 15 [11 favorites]