"No nice metaphorical way to deal with the rising wave of fascism"

May 21, 2024 6:40 AM

The Apprentice is a 2024 movie about Donald Trump and Roy Cohn, directed by Ali Abbasi and starring Sebastian Stan (CW, discussion of rape).

One of its backers, former Washington Commanders owner Dan Snyder, tried to stop its release. Shown at Cannes, it received an eight- (or eleven-) minute ovation. The Trump campaign says it will sue the filmmakers. Abbasi says “Everybody talks about him suing a lot of people, they don’t talk about his success rate [with those lawsuits].”

posted by box (63 comments total)

“Everybody talks about him suing a lot of people, they don’t talk about his success rate [with those lawsuits].”

The point of Trump lawsuits is not necessarily to win. The point is to financially intimidate/harass the target. Actually winning a lawsuit is merely a bonus.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:42 AM on May 21 [32 favorites]

I wonder if he's seen it yet. This might be the thing that ends all his legal issues.

I mean, cardiac arrest and embalming gets him out of those, right?

Also having looked it up, the work they did on Sebastian Stan to make him look like a young Trump is uncanny.
posted by mephron at 7:43 AM on May 21 [3 favorites]

It looks like one of those conservative paintings of Trump where he doesn’t look like shit.
posted by Artw at 7:45 AM on May 21 [7 favorites]

(So far, my favorite part of this story might be that Dan Snyder says he backed this movie financially because he thought it would be a flattering picture of Trump.)
posted by box at 7:50 AM on May 21 [29 favorites]

This won't be the first time Sebastian Stan has played someone controlled by Russians.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:58 AM on May 21 [88 favorites]

This year has been hell on my mental outlook as we slide down the tube toward November, and I'm a relatively protected white 50yo man with no kids who can probably weather the backside of another 4+ years of Trump & crew fine, as long as I disconnect from the news.

Wish I had more faith in my fellow countrypeeps . . .
posted by torokunai at 8:02 AM on May 21 [35 favorites]

former Washington Commanders owner Dan Snyder

To be clear, Snyder was forced to sell the Commanders months ago for fostering a decades long work environment that promoted sexual abuse. Can you imagine how big an asshole you have to be for people like Jerry Jones and Stan Kroenke to disassociate themselves from you?
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:02 AM on May 21 [26 favorites]

In that case him being disappointed in his investment is VERY funny.
posted by Artw at 8:03 AM on May 21 [6 favorites]

Roy Cohn is certainly a name to evoke with. I've known that Trump was involved with him early on but didn't think it was so important. By the time I was paying attention to things like this he was dead (in 1986) and definitely seemed of a previous generation. Interesting to tell a whole deep story about him.
posted by Nelson at 8:07 AM on May 21 [1 favorite]

Snyder was generally acknowledged as both the most hated man in the NFL and in Washington DC, for a long list of reasons.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:07 AM on May 21 [3 favorites]

The Trump campaign says it will sue the filmmakers.
Where's the money? The Reich?!?
posted by HearHere at 8:08 AM on May 21 [3 favorites]

Anyone suing to stop a film from being released is free advertising for the movie.
posted by Brian B. at 8:31 AM on May 21 [18 favorites]

he thought it would be a flattering picture of Trump.

How would that even be possible?
posted by InfidelZombie at 8:45 AM on May 21 [12 favorites]

Interesting that the campaign is suing the filmmaker. Does TFG not have the cash?
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:53 AM on May 21 [3 favorites]

making loud noises about threatening to sue a work of art into non-existence historically does wonders for making it disappear forever with no one ever curious or attempting to see the art in question
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 8:53 AM on May 21 [28 favorites]

Does TFG not have the cash?

I mean, maybe, but also he's crooked as shit, and the campaign is spending more on his legal fees than on campaigning.

This is a guy who appears to have used his private charitable foundation to pay his son's Cub Scout dues.
posted by box at 8:57 AM on May 21 [18 favorites]

I'm guessing it's more about discovery. The campaign is a faceless entity that can't confirm or deny every detail in the movie.
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:05 AM on May 21 [5 favorites]

The 'mystery' in the first link is a thing at the heart of fascism, and I think it's been answered. Mother Night is very much about it. You are, or at least become, what you pretend to be. Human life is made out of narratives. Whatever narrative you push the most will be yours. Does Trump know he's lying? Trump knows his only real power is in what he can make people believe. Trump IS his lying.
posted by es_de_bah at 9:14 AM on May 21 [32 favorites]

Can Trump even get through this movie? On the one hand, it's about him, the only subject he's actually interested in. On the other hand, he has to sit still and shut up for two hours. Which will win?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:22 AM on May 21 [9 favorites]

VonShitzinpantz can't even stay awake at his own trial, he'd definitely fall asleep during a movie like this.
posted by briank at 9:29 AM on May 21 [3 favorites]

Can we get a Snyder cut of this one, too?
posted by I-Write-Essays at 9:35 AM on May 21 [2 favorites]

Dertail, sorry. So here's a shocker, no story on the Reich advocacy by the Golden Toilet in either the NYT (actually the least surprising news ever) or the Wapo. Guess it's one of those wacky out there statements from the Trumpys that we've grown to love. Probably would've been the same had Biden said it (ahahahahahahahahahahaha).
posted by WatTylerJr at 9:57 AM on May 21 [7 favorites]

Holy shit am I tired of hearing about this walking trash pile.
posted by chronkite at 10:03 AM on May 21 [42 favorites]

Dertail

is this a typo or a deliberate neologism? either way, I am intrigued
posted by elkevelvet at 10:04 AM on May 21 [7 favorites]

Does TFG not have the cash?

The guy tried to stiff Karen McDougal and Stormy Daniels to the tune of a few hundred thousand just because he thought he could, he doesn't spend money if he can either avoid it or have someone else pay.
posted by BungaDunga at 10:04 AM on May 21 [5 favorites]

(Dertail, but looks to me like both the NYT and WaPo have stories about the Reich advocacy.)
posted by box at 10:07 AM on May 21 [9 favorites]

(Dertail, here's an AP story about the Reich bit.)
posted by mephron at 10:09 AM on May 21 [5 favorites]

Can Jeremy Strong be sleazy enough to pull off Roy Cohn? Because Cohn's sleaze makes Trump look like a choirboy. Cohn's was so sleazy the ducks back slid off him. Cohn was so sleazy he's make deSade blush, and not in a sexy way.

Trump is the perfect Cohn legacy.
posted by From Bklyn at 10:16 AM on May 21 [6 favorites]

I wonder if he's seen it yet.

As far as I know Trump prefers tv to all other media.
posted by doctornemo at 10:25 AM on May 21

> Can Jeremy Strong be sleazy enough to pull off Roy Cohn? Because Cohn's sleaze makes Trump look like a choirboy. Cohn's was so sleazy the ducks back slid off him. Cohn was so sleazy he's make deSade blush, and not in a sexy way.

I've never seen a broadway production of Angels in America but if Nathan Lane can be an effective Cohn, Jeremy Strong will be an outstanding one. I just hope he doesn't go too method on it and get someone executed for treason
posted by dis_integration at 10:29 AM on May 21 [9 favorites]

We can expect strongly held sight unseen opinions, just like any other right wing rate grifter talking about a movie.
posted by Artw at 10:29 AM on May 21 [2 favorites]

No nice metaphorical way to deal with the rising wave of fascism

Totally agree, and it would be great for movies to be political again. But do movies about presidents change public opinion enough to alter the outcome of an election? For instance, Fahrenheit 9/11 made hundreds of millions of dollars for its filmmaker, but Bush still got to enjoy a second term. I suppose this is good publicity, regardless, and like any competent director, Abbasi wants to make money for investors so that he can keep making movies.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:59 AM on May 21

> he thought it would be a flattering picture of Trump.

How would that even be possible?

The tv show The Apprentice was an *extremely* flattering picture of Trump.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:16 AM on May 21 [11 favorites]

The Guardian was not impressed by the movie.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 11:29 AM on May 21 [4 favorites]

The Guardian was not impressed by the movie.
That right there is enough to make me interested to see it.
posted by xedrik at 11:56 AM on May 21 [5 favorites]

This year has been hell on my mental outlook as we slide down the tube toward November, and I'm a relatively protected white 50yo man with no kids who can probably weather the backside of another 4+ years of Trump & crew fine

Mid-50s white cis man who looks like a Republican here, and 2024 has been a downward spiral so far for exactly the same reason. I'm just gobsmacked to hear younger, darker, gayer, more-alterna people so blithe about "I'm not voting for Biden" and I'm like you can't possibly not know what the consequences of that are, and how far worse they will be for you than me.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 12:12 PM on May 21 [44 favorites]

I hate that no matter what he does, apparently he will win in a landslide.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:15 PM on May 21 [3 favorites]

“ I've never seen a broadway production of Angels in America but if Nathan Lane can be an effective Cohn, Jeremy Strong will be an outstanding one. I just hope he doesn't go too method on it and get someone executed for treason”

The only Roy Cohn I’ve seen is Al Pacino’s, and that was thoroughly enjoyable (awwww Ethel).

I would love to see this film. That relationship between those two has never been explored the way it ought to be - among other angles, the idea of a pair of sexual opportunists in the 70s… I bet Roy having AIDS scared the crap out of DJT.
posted by cybrcamper at 12:58 PM on May 21 [4 favorites]

"You know, if you're young, and in this era, and if you have any guilt about not having gone to Vietnam, we have our own Vietnam — it's called the dating game."
posted by box at 1:03 PM on May 21 [6 favorites]

yeah just thinking how Biden was in Congress during the 1976 bicentennial celebrations, while Trump that year was no doubt recovering from his 'personal Vietnam'.

And one of these will be president in 2026.
posted by torokunai at 1:06 PM on May 21 [4 favorites]

I'm just gobsmacked to hear younger, darker, gayer, more-alterna people so blithe about "I'm not voting for Biden" and I'm like you can't possibly not know what the consequences of that are, and how far worse they will be for you than me.

So here's the thing: you plan to vote for Biden because you believe his reelection can forestall a bad future. Heck, I'll do the same. But the kids today? They don't believe there will be a future. Except for the ones that are so sheltered by privilege that they don't even perceive people like you and me as human, I don't think any American under thirty right now expects to see their fortieth birthday. They read the political news, the economic news, even the technology news, and here (in no particular order) are a few possibilities they do expect:

• dead from an injury or preventable illness they couldn't afford treatment for
• dead in a hurricane, flash flood or other freak weather event caused by climate change
• hate-crimed to death by fascists
• dead for any of a number of reasons because they were living on the street because they couldn't afford housing
• run over by a driverless Tesla?

And they'd probably feel this way even if Biden hadn't completely dropped the ball on Gaza and proven that he doesn't give a rat's ass about genocide as long as it's an allied country doing it. So, yeah, the kids know how bad it's going to get. If you want them to vote your way, you have to convince them that things could be better, and frankly I don't see how that's possible.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:17 PM on May 21 [27 favorites]

I hate to agree with such a dark prognosis but.. prove (Faint of Butt) wrong?
posted by elkevelvet at 1:24 PM on May 21 [5 favorites]

Faint of Butt, I'd add

* Shot in a public place

But your point is well taken.
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:30 PM on May 21 [7 favorites]

I know and work with a lot of young adults and their political beliefs are all over the place. Nothing is obvious because there is a lot to consider and they are figuring stuff out. One thing I am NOT seeing is them giving up. I don't know any who are not working their asses off to make stuff happen. For financial security, for fun, for the future. The kids I know are definitely still figuring shit out but they're going strong and I'm pretty proud of them especially considering these times.
posted by snsranch at 1:40 PM on May 21 [51 favorites]

Ok but seriously, I'm starting to give Sebastian Stan the side-eye for playing so many utter sleazebags in biopics.
posted by TwoStride at 1:55 PM on May 21 [1 favorite]

Faint of Butt: I'm old enough to remember "duck and cover" drills in school. Global thermonuclear war wasn't just a computer game. And, for the young man I was then, being shipped off to Viet Nam was a real possibility. Yeah, there are serious issues out there. But man, can you think of a time when there weren't?
posted by SPrintF at 1:55 PM on May 21 [28 favorites]

Not nearly all young people think that way. Their life isn't over. That sounds more like projection from an older cynical person. I've met and heard of many who are determined to make some changes, and they will.
posted by Liquidwolf at 1:56 PM on May 21 [41 favorites]

Ok but seriously, I'm starting to give Sebastian Stan the side-eye for playing so many utter sleazebags in biopics.

His Tommy Lee is very good.
posted by Artw at 1:56 PM on May 21 [1 favorite]

I don't think any American under thirty right now expects to see their fortieth birthday.

I am often wrong about so, so many things, and my sample size may be far too small and localized, but I also work with young people from a lot of different backgrounds. While I think most of them definitely have a hard time imagining what it would be like to turn 40, the overwhelming majority assume it’s going to happen some day. And while there is often cynicism and some despair among the most highly engaged, my experience is that the youth of this country aren’t nearly as doom-struck as their elders insist they are. Most kids aren’t really paying that much attention to world events.
posted by ducky l'orange at 2:03 PM on May 21 [28 favorites]

So, the 2019 documentary Where's My Roy Cohn? [trailer, 2m] is streaming on YouTube [1h40m] if you are willing to log in to verify your age.
posted by hippybear at 3:03 PM on May 21 [2 favorites]

Yeah, nihilism is not the answer. And I mean that in both senses: nihilism is not the answer most young people are giving, and nihilism should never be the answer.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 3:14 PM on May 21 [11 favorites]

Suggest we wrap the derail up as last time it went on for 1000+ comments, was highly contentious and was fucking boring.
posted by Artw at 3:26 PM on May 21 [13 favorites]

The derail was so long and strong I had found these links to post and couldn't figure out which thread to post it in based on the comment stream. Scrolling to the top reminded me that this is the thread about Trump and Roy Cohn.
posted by hippybear at 3:31 PM on May 21 [3 favorites]

And the 2024 movie about Trump and Roy Cohn, which is in turn about Trump's early days, with his domineering and abusive father, his predatory mentor/surrogate father, the time he and his father got sued for racial discrimination, the time he got cosmetic surgery, and his first wife (she's played in the movie by the same actress that appeared in the Borat Subsequent Moviefilm scene with Rudy Giuliani).

The screenplay is by Gabriel Sherman, a Vanity Fair writer who also wrote The Loudest Voice in the Room: How the Brilliant, Bombastic Roger Ailes Built Fox News-and Divided a Country.
posted by box at 3:48 PM on May 21 [1 favorite]

So the review claims that everything in the movie happened. Is that true of the Roy Cohn blackmailing a prosecutor to get Trump out of his discrimination case scene? If so that seems like a major revelation and I can't find anything about it from googling.

If not I think that making a movie that uses things like fast cuts to make it look as documentary-like as possible while accompanying it with a press campaign that claims the events it depicted actually happens while depicting a presidential candidate of major crimes is actually bad, especially when it is released to coincide with that candidate's election.
posted by hermanubis at 3:52 PM on May 21

I'm just gobsmacked to hear younger, darker, gayer, more-alterna people so blithe about "I'm not voting for Biden"

Young voters and black voters turned out in record numbers to defeat Trump in 2020, so Russia and China in concert with Republican propaganda farms have been pushing as hard as possible from every direction to poison the Democrats in their eyes.
posted by CynicalKnight at 4:22 PM on May 21 [12 favorites]

Sure, Russia did it. Why not? It obviously isn't Biden's fault, he's great. It all makes sense now. Let me get these strings and Post-Its up on the big board, I'll show you how it all went down.

It's unbelievably distressing to me that the democrats can't run a candidate who gets bigger numbers against The Crime President than this, but it's what's for dinner, I guess. It's hard to sell idealistic young voters on a cynical lesser of two evils vote, guys. You have to focus on making sure cynical old boomers get to the polls. If he won't come to young voters, they aren't going to come to him. He could at least try.

I wish this movie could make even one Trump voter change their mind. Well, really, I would like it if this movie could make several million Trump voters change their minds. I'd settle for one.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:14 PM on May 21 [13 favorites]

My impression of the people around me at work, young especially, is that there’s so much absurd stuff being thrown at Trump they don’t think it’s possibly true. You can show them court cases like with Carroll but they seem to diminish it to “that’s just one thing”. The fact that all of it being said is objectively true doesn’t matter. It’s the boy who cried wolf except in this he never lies but people are sick of hearing him.
posted by JakeEXTREME at 7:40 PM on May 21 [5 favorites]

I don’t understand who the audience is. Trumpers aren’t going to want to watch something that makes him look bad, and regular people like me can barely get through a news story where there’s a 30 second clip of him, let alone a debate with him in it. I guess people loved the Apprentice? This is where I say I told people that MTV’s The Real World signaled the beginning of the idiocracy (don’t laugh, I really did). I just don’t get that kind of show (reality shows, except maybe an anodyne cooking one). Yechhhh.
posted by caviar2d2 at 8:32 PM on May 21 [4 favorites]

cybrcamper: The only Roy Cohn I’ve seen is Al Pacino’s, and that was thoroughly enjoyable (awwww Ethel).

Dertail but Pacino is the worst of the four I've seen. Do yourself a favor and find a way to see Nathan Lane in the National Theatre's exceptional production that was filmed and broadcast through their NT Live program.

(For those who don't know, while the story of Angels in America is fictional, Roy Cohn is an actual character in it.)
posted by tzikeh at 8:52 PM on May 21 [1 favorite]

Mod note: Yeah, let's not do "Biden as bad as Trump" in here, please. Please.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 10:43 PM on May 21 [28 favorites]

Ron Vawter had a pretty great turn as Roy Cohn but for the life of me I can't find a full video of it. (The piece was called "Roy Cohn/Jack Smith" it played in NYC. Like Cohn and Smith, Vawter was also killed in the AIDS epidemic.)
posted by From Bklyn at 2:03 AM on May 22 [1 favorite]

Roy Cohn is the canonical Bad Gay, and it is fascinating how often he managed to cross paths with America's worst, with a timeline that runs from McCarthy to J. Edgar Hoover to skid marks like Reagan and Trump. Not even James Ellroy could write a villain as hellbound as Cohn.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:10 AM on May 22 [8 favorites]