“Will you tell everyone that I was halfway cool?”
May 27, 2024 8:52 AM Subscribe
How Kid Rock Went From America’s Favorite Hard-Partying Rock Star to a MAGA Mouthpiece A deep look into a very dark heart.
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i wonder if he thinks eminem ever gave a fuck about being halfway cool
posted by pyramid termite at 9:31 AM on May 27 [11 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 9:31 AM on May 27 [11 favorites]
Kid Rock always seemed like a douche. Why people are surprised that he's drawn to Trump is beyond me.
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:35 AM on May 27 [50 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 9:35 AM on May 27 [50 favorites]
Wow. Kid Rock is a deeply unhappy person.
posted by potrzebie at 9:35 AM on May 27 [8 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 9:35 AM on May 27 [8 favorites]
“Do I think Kid Rock is straight-up racist? No,” Harmon says. “Do I think Kid Rock is a dickhead? Yes.”
This was a telling bit for me here. I spent several years in a couple of metros' hip hop scenes and met all sorts of people, including assholish, overly confident white guys. I got the impression that, oftentimes in hip hop spaces, white guys (especially if they're in any way well off) feel like they have to work twice as hard as Black and Hispanic people, which tends to manifest either as extra enthusiasm and/or extra ego. Some of those white guys grow up to be decent, and some... don't.
That said, Kid Rock's association with TFG smacks quite a bit of assholes attracting assholes.
posted by May Kasahara at 9:37 AM on May 27 [3 favorites]
This was a telling bit for me here. I spent several years in a couple of metros' hip hop scenes and met all sorts of people, including assholish, overly confident white guys. I got the impression that, oftentimes in hip hop spaces, white guys (especially if they're in any way well off) feel like they have to work twice as hard as Black and Hispanic people, which tends to manifest either as extra enthusiasm and/or extra ego. Some of those white guys grow up to be decent, and some... don't.
That said, Kid Rock's association with TFG smacks quite a bit of assholes attracting assholes.
posted by May Kasahara at 9:37 AM on May 27 [3 favorites]
We have created a massive trolling economy, with celebrity provocateur stars. And just as celebrity socialites all start to look the same because they go to the same plastic surgeons to get the approved trendy look, the Trumps and Kid Rocks (Kids Rock?) and MTGs of this world all start to sound the same in their outrageous proclamations because they go to the same MAGA ecosystem to get the likes and shares.
You know how highly processed foods are described as addicting their market by being "hyperpalatable?" The poo-flingers of the MAGA influencer realm sell themselves by being hyperunpalatable. Yuck.
posted by DrMew at 9:40 AM on May 27 [31 favorites]
You know how highly processed foods are described as addicting their market by being "hyperpalatable?" The poo-flingers of the MAGA influencer realm sell themselves by being hyperunpalatable. Yuck.
posted by DrMew at 9:40 AM on May 27 [31 favorites]
the idea that a rich white guy would become a die-hard Trump supporter is not exactly shocking.
Yeah, that. I got most of the way through the article but once he starts rambling on about MS-13 I already know how it ends. He grew up wealthy, and he got richer with some platinum records and successful tours.
At his core he's just another fragile white guy threatened by change, disconnected from reality and using agitprop as a surrogate. But his lack of a filter gives some clarity to what other fragile people threatened by change are privately thinking, and what they're willing to do.
“I’m part of the problem,” he acknowledges. “I’m one of the polarizing people, no question. Sometimes I bitch about other people, then I look in the mirror and I’m like, ‘Oh, yeah, why don’t you shut the fuck up too?’”
So, is this mostly an impulse-control problem?
“It’s a rich-guy issue,” he says. “No fucks left. I’m not going to get it right every time, but I know my heart’s right. I want the best for this country.”
So essentially "Yeah, I'm part of the problem but I basically don't care." And "I know my heart's right" is the pretext for every Torquemada-style religious atrocity in human history.
You should be less concerned about kid rock and a hell of a lot more concerned about the people listening to him. They're the useful idiots that are going to be using violence on his and TFG's behalf. All the while telling you it's for your own good.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 9:42 AM on May 27 [23 favorites]
Yeah, that. I got most of the way through the article but once he starts rambling on about MS-13 I already know how it ends. He grew up wealthy, and he got richer with some platinum records and successful tours.
At his core he's just another fragile white guy threatened by change, disconnected from reality and using agitprop as a surrogate. But his lack of a filter gives some clarity to what other fragile people threatened by change are privately thinking, and what they're willing to do.
“I’m part of the problem,” he acknowledges. “I’m one of the polarizing people, no question. Sometimes I bitch about other people, then I look in the mirror and I’m like, ‘Oh, yeah, why don’t you shut the fuck up too?’”
So, is this mostly an impulse-control problem?
“It’s a rich-guy issue,” he says. “No fucks left. I’m not going to get it right every time, but I know my heart’s right. I want the best for this country.”
So essentially "Yeah, I'm part of the problem but I basically don't care." And "I know my heart's right" is the pretext for every Torquemada-style religious atrocity in human history.
You should be less concerned about kid rock and a hell of a lot more concerned about the people listening to him. They're the useful idiots that are going to be using violence on his and TFG's behalf. All the while telling you it's for your own good.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 9:42 AM on May 27 [23 favorites]
What a rich, sad, pathetic, lonely old man. It's almost like we should have support groups for this genre of asshole so they might somehow get better and not destroy everyone and everything around them.
Imagine having all these people on speed-dial and... no one wanting to pick up. "Ugh, Kid Rock is calling me again" decline
posted by eschatonizer at 9:43 AM on May 27 [11 favorites]
Imagine having all these people on speed-dial and... no one wanting to pick up. "Ugh, Kid Rock is calling me again" decline
posted by eschatonizer at 9:43 AM on May 27 [11 favorites]
Ooof. He seems kind of like Trump: a nepo baby with massive daddy issues who desperately needs adulation because he thinks it will fill the gaping hole where his ego should be. I feel like we could spare the world a ton of harm if we could mandate therapy for the rich white dudes with terrible fathers.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:47 AM on May 27 [25 favorites]
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:47 AM on May 27 [25 favorites]
i have two kitchen bins. one has a recycling logo, the other has a picture of kid rock. that is all.
posted by monster free city at 9:59 AM on May 27 [40 favorites]
posted by monster free city at 9:59 AM on May 27 [40 favorites]
For examples of how Kid Rock demands the kid gloves treatment (which the media readily gives him), do a Ctrl-F for "racist" and "racism".
who has since thrown his lot in with an overwhelmingly white political movement criticized for its racist rhetoric, would have a white butler named after a racial slur aimed at Black people who are overly accommodating to the white establishment.
No one ever says "Kid Rock is a racist" but they always have to buffer it as "thrown his lot in with" and "criticized for its racist rhetoric".
After Ritchie admitted he had, he says Anthony told him, “Oh, you ain’t racist. You just dumb.”
i.e. "Kid Rock isn't racist racist."
“I never got the racist, homophobic vibe from him,” says Barbara Payton, a backing singer who toured with Kid Rock in the 2000s.
i.e. "Kid Rock isn't racist racist."
“Do I think Kid Rock is straight-up racist? No,” Harmon says. “Do I think Kid Rock is a dickhead? Yes.”
i.e. "Kid Rock isn't racist racist."
It’d be easy to label this as the rantings of a drunk racist, but as with everything that Ritchie does, it’s hard to know how calculated it all is.
No, actually it's very hard if not impossible for the media to just flat out call a racist a racist even when the racism is as unsubtle as Trump's or Kid Rock's. Even this Rolling Stone article never calls Kid Rock a racist directly, and I think a lot of the beef that mine and older generations have with zoomers and gen alpha is that they aren't so reluctant to state the obvious.
Kid Rock is a racist.
posted by AlSweigart at 10:01 AM on May 27 [75 favorites]
who has since thrown his lot in with an overwhelmingly white political movement criticized for its racist rhetoric, would have a white butler named after a racial slur aimed at Black people who are overly accommodating to the white establishment.
No one ever says "Kid Rock is a racist" but they always have to buffer it as "thrown his lot in with" and "criticized for its racist rhetoric".
After Ritchie admitted he had, he says Anthony told him, “Oh, you ain’t racist. You just dumb.”
i.e. "Kid Rock isn't racist racist."
“I never got the racist, homophobic vibe from him,” says Barbara Payton, a backing singer who toured with Kid Rock in the 2000s.
i.e. "Kid Rock isn't racist racist."
“Do I think Kid Rock is straight-up racist? No,” Harmon says. “Do I think Kid Rock is a dickhead? Yes.”
i.e. "Kid Rock isn't racist racist."
It’d be easy to label this as the rantings of a drunk racist, but as with everything that Ritchie does, it’s hard to know how calculated it all is.
No, actually it's very hard if not impossible for the media to just flat out call a racist a racist even when the racism is as unsubtle as Trump's or Kid Rock's. Even this Rolling Stone article never calls Kid Rock a racist directly, and I think a lot of the beef that mine and older generations have with zoomers and gen alpha is that they aren't so reluctant to state the obvious.
Kid Rock is a racist.
posted by AlSweigart at 10:01 AM on May 27 [75 favorites]
Wow. Kid Rock is a deeply unhappy person.
Good.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:05 AM on May 27 [23 favorites]
Good.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:05 AM on May 27 [23 favorites]
Why people are surprised that he's drawn to Trump is beyond me.
I'm always surprised when anyone is drawn to Trump -- certainly in terms of actually believing a word the guy says. I can see the cynical/grifter appeal, I guess.
Anyway, reminded is a better word ... that anyone could be that fucking stupid.
posted by philip-random at 10:12 AM on May 27
I'm always surprised when anyone is drawn to Trump -- certainly in terms of actually believing a word the guy says. I can see the cynical/grifter appeal, I guess.
Anyway, reminded is a better word ... that anyone could be that fucking stupid.
posted by philip-random at 10:12 AM on May 27
(Full credit does go to Rolling Stone for their Henry Kissinger obituary. The mainstream media adopts progressive views at a half-century lag and pretends they are always the mature, reasonable voice.)
posted by AlSweigart at 10:12 AM on May 27 [6 favorites]
posted by AlSweigart at 10:12 AM on May 27 [6 favorites]
Kid Rock's career arc has been filled with the kind of lucky breaks that you get when your family money is a viable backup plan--he first popped up in a brief window when everyone had forgotten about Vanilla Ice, but just before the time when people expected white rappers to be, you know, good at rapping.
It took a few lousy albums before he hit on rap-rock with Devil Without a Cause. After that one, he started falling off almost immediately--being surrounded by enablers and sycophants has a way of doing that, and drugs probably didn't help.
Nevertheless, he managed a country pivot at, again, just the right-time, and released 'All Summer Long,' fulfilling what I can only assume was a lifelong dream of cosplaying Ronnie Van Zant. And after that, his path was pretty much set.
(Kid Rock before the fame: the definitive Detroit oral history (Detroit Free Press, 2015)
Kid Rock in Grand Royal magazine (1996))
posted by box at 10:14 AM on May 27 [5 favorites]
It took a few lousy albums before he hit on rap-rock with Devil Without a Cause. After that one, he started falling off almost immediately--being surrounded by enablers and sycophants has a way of doing that, and drugs probably didn't help.
Nevertheless, he managed a country pivot at, again, just the right-time, and released 'All Summer Long,' fulfilling what I can only assume was a lifelong dream of cosplaying Ronnie Van Zant. And after that, his path was pretty much set.
(Kid Rock before the fame: the definitive Detroit oral history (Detroit Free Press, 2015)
Kid Rock in Grand Royal magazine (1996))
posted by box at 10:14 AM on May 27 [5 favorites]
AlSweigart, that reminds me of the Key & Peele sketch about how the "n" word for white people is "racist."
posted by UltraMorgnus at 10:19 AM on May 27 [13 favorites]
posted by UltraMorgnus at 10:19 AM on May 27 [13 favorites]
Happy Two Minutes Hate everyone.
posted by jchgf at 10:20 AM on May 27 [2 favorites]
posted by jchgf at 10:20 AM on May 27 [2 favorites]
Happy Two Minutes Hate everyone.
You know, I came of age in the '90s when ironic racism, sexism, and more were viewed as hip and cool. "Are they really racist?" was a fig-leaf providing coverage for a lot of awful behavior. This is still with us—parts of the dirtbag left f'rex; the Dimes Square scene got lots of media coverage in the "are they really...?" ironic mode—but on the whole there's been a lot of work dismantling this worldview, both in society and for me personally.
I hate what Kid Rock says and does, but underlying that, I'm sad. He's followed the arc that a lot of my former friends have. I could have done the same.
posted by sgranade at 10:35 AM on May 27 [15 favorites]
You know, I came of age in the '90s when ironic racism, sexism, and more were viewed as hip and cool. "Are they really racist?" was a fig-leaf providing coverage for a lot of awful behavior. This is still with us—parts of the dirtbag left f'rex; the Dimes Square scene got lots of media coverage in the "are they really...?" ironic mode—but on the whole there's been a lot of work dismantling this worldview, both in society and for me personally.
I hate what Kid Rock says and does, but underlying that, I'm sad. He's followed the arc that a lot of my former friends have. I could have done the same.
posted by sgranade at 10:35 AM on May 27 [15 favorites]
I guess what I'm saying is, two roads diverged in a wood, and I—I took the one that didn't lead to me singing "Sweet Home Alabama" all summer long.
posted by sgranade at 10:37 AM on May 27 [23 favorites]
posted by sgranade at 10:37 AM on May 27 [23 favorites]
"America’s Favorite Hard-Partying Rock Star" -- goddammit, *I'm* American, and my favorite "hard-partying" rock star slipped this mortal coil before the 24-hour news cycle started slouching towards Bethlehem
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:40 AM on May 27 [7 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:40 AM on May 27 [7 favorites]
I laughed when Internet Today dorks covered this story.
posted by 2N2222 at 10:43 AM on May 27 [1 favorite]
posted by 2N2222 at 10:43 AM on May 27 [1 favorite]
I thought that Andrew WK was America's Favorite Hard-Partying Rock Star
posted by NoMich at 10:44 AM on May 27 [38 favorites]
posted by NoMich at 10:44 AM on May 27 [38 favorites]
Honestly I sort of thought they were the same person and conflate the two constantly, probably unfairly to one or both, though I got a certain air “of trying too hard” when the both of them first popped up for their respective early hype cycles and nothing has really swayed me from that.
posted by Artw at 10:48 AM on May 27 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:48 AM on May 27 [2 favorites]
“Would you do me a favor?” he asks, practically whispering. “Just write the most horrific article about me. Do it. It helps me.”
. . .
ugh
posted by nightcoast at 10:52 AM on May 27 [1 favorite]
. . .
ugh
posted by nightcoast at 10:52 AM on May 27 [1 favorite]
So, yeah. I'm going to just guess without reading the article that a) he's rich, and b) he's racist.
Read the article, yup. I was right. Gee, I must be psychic or something!
What I didn't predict, but should have, would be all the people saying that he's ANYTHING but racist. It is nearly impossible to get white people to concede that racism even exists, much less that any particular person is racist.
Even that person directly saying "I am a racist and a white supremacist" doesn't really make a huge number of white people feel comfortable acknowledging that the person is actually racist. There's always an infinity of excuses.
I think Ian Danskin had a good take on it in his Cost of Doing Business video. Part of the problem, basically, is that a lot of white people want to pretend racism, white supremacy, is about being mean to non-white people. They don't want to accept the idea that racism is about POWER more than being mean, and that any real acknowledgement of racism will require them to concede that they have, actually, been beneficiaries of racism and white supremacy.
I damn sure have. I'm a fairly competent person, but let's get real. I play life on easy mode, I get jobs more easily, I get apartments more easily, I have less problems with the police, you name it.
But the whining from my fellow white people is overwhelming. Is it REALLY racist? Did he REALLY mean to be racist? He just fell in with racists. He's just an asshole. He's just an idiot. Notice that no one makes that kind of excuses except white people justifying other white people being racist? Yeah.
The word racism makes a whole lot of white people just shut down or start instantly diverting into ANYTHING else as an excuse. It's a sign of how big a deal this is that white people would rather label another white person more or less ANY insulting or derogatory term rather than concede that the other white person is actually racist.
posted by sotonohito at 11:16 AM on May 27 [35 favorites]
Read the article, yup. I was right. Gee, I must be psychic or something!
What I didn't predict, but should have, would be all the people saying that he's ANYTHING but racist. It is nearly impossible to get white people to concede that racism even exists, much less that any particular person is racist.
Even that person directly saying "I am a racist and a white supremacist" doesn't really make a huge number of white people feel comfortable acknowledging that the person is actually racist. There's always an infinity of excuses.
I think Ian Danskin had a good take on it in his Cost of Doing Business video. Part of the problem, basically, is that a lot of white people want to pretend racism, white supremacy, is about being mean to non-white people. They don't want to accept the idea that racism is about POWER more than being mean, and that any real acknowledgement of racism will require them to concede that they have, actually, been beneficiaries of racism and white supremacy.
I damn sure have. I'm a fairly competent person, but let's get real. I play life on easy mode, I get jobs more easily, I get apartments more easily, I have less problems with the police, you name it.
But the whining from my fellow white people is overwhelming. Is it REALLY racist? Did he REALLY mean to be racist? He just fell in with racists. He's just an asshole. He's just an idiot. Notice that no one makes that kind of excuses except white people justifying other white people being racist? Yeah.
The word racism makes a whole lot of white people just shut down or start instantly diverting into ANYTHING else as an excuse. It's a sign of how big a deal this is that white people would rather label another white person more or less ANY insulting or derogatory term rather than concede that the other white person is actually racist.
posted by sotonohito at 11:16 AM on May 27 [35 favorites]
There's a certain kind of white person, and there are a lot of them, who thinks that people calling them a racist is somehow worse than racism.
posted by box at 11:26 AM on May 27 [26 favorites]
posted by box at 11:26 AM on May 27 [26 favorites]
What I didn't predict, but should have, would be all the people saying that he's ANYTHING but racist. It is nearly impossible to get white people to concede that racism even exists, much less that any particular person is racist.I think, though, that several of the people quoted in the article as saying that are Black. Misty Love, the member of his band who is quoted as saying "People say he’s prejudiced. He’s not. How can you be prejudiced if your son is Black?” is herself Black. (I have some bad news for her about basically all of American history, though. Lots and lots of extremely racist men, from Thomas Jefferson to Strom Thurmond, had children who were Black.) So is Brian Harmon, whose quoted as saying “Do I think Kid Rock is straight-up racist? No,” Harmon says. “Do I think Kid Rock is a dickhead? Yes.” Part of what's going on here is that Kid Rock is a guy who buys into structural white supremacy while having close personal relationships with a lot of Black people, and that's difficult for a lot of people to process.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:34 AM on May 27 [23 favorites]
I’m not sure how being a dickhead or dumb who says a lot of racist things is better than being a racist. A grown-ass man who’s too stupid to avoid waving confederate flags around at his concerts and just engages in racist posturing out of… incompetence doesn’t strike me as more moral or less culpable than someone leveraging racism for calculated gain. At least the latter has agency.
Also, I keep forgetting that Kid Rock exists and is still alive. He’s one of those celebrities that won’t stay in my head. I blame that hat.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:15 PM on May 27 [7 favorites]
Also, I keep forgetting that Kid Rock exists and is still alive. He’s one of those celebrities that won’t stay in my head. I blame that hat.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:15 PM on May 27 [7 favorites]
But surely performative racism, even if you aren't yourself racist
I would argue that you are what you do, not what you hypothetically secretly believe but nobody can outwardly tell. Like, why try to split this particular hair?
posted by axiom at 12:34 PM on May 27 [23 favorites]
I would argue that you are what you do, not what you hypothetically secretly believe but nobody can outwardly tell. Like, why try to split this particular hair?
posted by axiom at 12:34 PM on May 27 [23 favorites]
America’s Favorite Hard-Partying Rock Star
Huh, I don't remember Kid Rock being Andrew WK.
posted by 1adam12 at 12:44 PM on May 27 [11 favorites]
Huh, I don't remember Kid Rock being Andrew WK.
posted by 1adam12 at 12:44 PM on May 27 [11 favorites]
A few thoughts:
- Back when "All Summer Long" was basically inescapable, I used to think, "I'm pretty sure that Warren Zevon would hate this because he wrote this; it's catchy as hell, but why would John Mellencamp put this out?" That's who I thought did "All Summer Long" for the longest time.
- My feelings about Kid Rock are largely formed by his going to the White House when TFG was squatting in it, accompanied by Ted Nugent and Sarah Palin. Those three are basically the holy trinity of the Shithead-Americans; Palin, in particular, was a pioneer in that sneering, weirdly resentful faux-populism that TFG was vastly more successful with.
- The payoff--the money shot, if you will--of the article is at the end, when all the masks fall off and he really is that pathetic guy, almost literally chasing after the article writer because he's apparently that afraid of being alone with himself.
- 1adam12 just barely beat me to it; Andrew WK is by all accounts the guy who KR wishes he could be.
- Of course he's a racist.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:48 PM on May 27 [13 favorites]
- Back when "All Summer Long" was basically inescapable, I used to think, "I'm pretty sure that Warren Zevon would hate this because he wrote this; it's catchy as hell, but why would John Mellencamp put this out?" That's who I thought did "All Summer Long" for the longest time.
- My feelings about Kid Rock are largely formed by his going to the White House when TFG was squatting in it, accompanied by Ted Nugent and Sarah Palin. Those three are basically the holy trinity of the Shithead-Americans; Palin, in particular, was a pioneer in that sneering, weirdly resentful faux-populism that TFG was vastly more successful with.
- The payoff--the money shot, if you will--of the article is at the end, when all the masks fall off and he really is that pathetic guy, almost literally chasing after the article writer because he's apparently that afraid of being alone with himself.
- 1adam12 just barely beat me to it; Andrew WK is by all accounts the guy who KR wishes he could be.
- Of course he's a racist.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:48 PM on May 27 [13 favorites]
oh, hell, lemmy would have drunk both of them under the table
posted by pyramid termite at 12:48 PM on May 27 [14 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 12:48 PM on May 27 [14 favorites]
> I thought that Andrew WK was America's Favorite Hard-Partying Rock Star
andrew wk is america's favorite hard-partying hard-rock psyop masterminded by [redacted] acting against [redacted] and [redacted] for reasons of [redacted], with an end goal of [redacted], [redacted], and ultimately [redacted].
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 1:26 PM on May 27 [12 favorites]
andrew wk is america's favorite hard-partying hard-rock psyop masterminded by [redacted] acting against [redacted] and [redacted] for reasons of [redacted], with an end goal of [redacted], [redacted], and ultimately [redacted].
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 1:26 PM on May 27 [12 favorites]
Kid Rock is a racist.
Not that I disagree, but it's almost always a losing battle to label someone a racist. Unless they're proudly racist, like a KKK member, they'll simply deny it.
It's far far better to point out their actions and words, and to call those things racist. That way you aren't falling into the trap of labeling a person as racist, but rather you label what they produce as racist--that puts the onus on the racist person to justify.
For example, if someone says the n-word, instead of saying "You're a racist,", say "That was a racist thing to say. Why did you choose to say it?" The former will get you a handwave but the latter takes you out of it, and focuses on the words. Same is true for actions.
posted by zardoz at 1:34 PM on May 27 [9 favorites]
Not that I disagree, but it's almost always a losing battle to label someone a racist. Unless they're proudly racist, like a KKK member, they'll simply deny it.
It's far far better to point out their actions and words, and to call those things racist. That way you aren't falling into the trap of labeling a person as racist, but rather you label what they produce as racist--that puts the onus on the racist person to justify.
For example, if someone says the n-word, instead of saying "You're a racist,", say "That was a racist thing to say. Why did you choose to say it?" The former will get you a handwave but the latter takes you out of it, and focuses on the words. Same is true for actions.
posted by zardoz at 1:34 PM on May 27 [9 favorites]
The ending, in which Bob/Kid Ritchie-Rock (they seemed to have merged), after drinking for hours, pulls a handgun from behind a chair, waves it around, and then prevents the journalist, David Peisner, from leaving his music studio, is something else. [See Tenn. Code § 39-13-304 (/notalawyer).] Eventually, Peisner gets a lift (in an ATV, for a 1/2 mile trip, in a wooded area, uphill, at night) back to his car (aka The 1st Sergeant Ransom) from the increasingly combative interviewee.
This has the makings of a bottle episode for a streaming-service series, one that keeps the "He asks how much money I made last year, and when I tell him, he tells me I need a new job" exchange.
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:36 PM on May 27 [4 favorites]
This has the makings of a bottle episode for a streaming-service series, one that keeps the "He asks how much money I made last year, and when I tell him, he tells me I need a new job" exchange.
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:36 PM on May 27 [4 favorites]
I met him once in a bar in Vegas. This was way before all the MAGA shit lit off (by which I mean before a black guy became president). 2002 or so. No entourage, no big party, he was just a guy at a bar. We chatted, he was nice and normal except for the weird hat. What the fuck happened to that nice guy? What the fuck happened to so many normal people that Trump is a thing???
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:38 PM on May 27 [10 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:38 PM on May 27 [10 favorites]
What the fuck happened to that nice guy? What the fuck happened to so many normal people that Trump is a thing???
2008 happened. I think there are a lot of people who were in the "aw, c'mon man I don't hate Black people" camp that were actually fine so long as the status quo did not include Black people having Actual Power, which is what the election of a Black man in 2008 symbolized. They were fine so long as white people retained control of everything.
Add one part that, two parts nonstop exposure to the self-radicalizaing-internet-fascist-pipeline. Stir. Let simmer for 8 years. Serves several million.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 1:44 PM on May 27 [46 favorites]
2008 happened. I think there are a lot of people who were in the "aw, c'mon man I don't hate Black people" camp that were actually fine so long as the status quo did not include Black people having Actual Power, which is what the election of a Black man in 2008 symbolized. They were fine so long as white people retained control of everything.
Add one part that, two parts nonstop exposure to the self-radicalizaing-internet-fascist-pipeline. Stir. Let simmer for 8 years. Serves several million.
posted by howbigisthistextfield at 1:44 PM on May 27 [46 favorites]
This is just my armchair psychology so don't take it too seriously but I feel like wealth isolates people and that leads to distorted thinking about just about everything. I think a lot of the current wave of extra-scarily-hateful conservatism comes from a place of people having nobody to be emotionally vulnerable with. They are never seen for who they really are, so they don't see other people for who they really are either. I dunno. I think that at their core conservatives are sad and scared. This doesn't make them any less dangerous of course.
posted by signsofrain at 2:11 PM on May 27 [7 favorites]
posted by signsofrain at 2:11 PM on May 27 [7 favorites]
WRT Black friends of Robert James Ritchie, who is neither a kid nor does he rock so fuck his stage name, there are a lot of factors at play including just plain "sotonohito is 100% wrong".
But I don't think I'm 100% wrong.
We've got the in group problem. People in any in group tend to minimize unethical things done by others in the group while maximizing unethical things done by those outside the group. We see a horrifying non-racial example of this with the way so many of the Hollywood old guard, including women who have spoken about the trauma created by their own experiences as victims of sexual assault, trying to claim that Roman Polanski isn't so bad.
Plus, Black people are hardly immune to the "well sure he says racist things and hangs out with racists and supports racist causes but is he REALLY racist?" hairsplitting Danskin discusses in the video I linked (transcript here, sorry I forgot to add it above and I hate video as a format for politics)
One of the victories of the 1960's was convincing America that racism was wrong. But all that did was push the racists back into arguing that they weren't REALLY racist they just [insert racist crap here]. It's a conversation ending term because in contemporary American society "racist" is such a meaning laden word that there's not much room for talk after it's been deployed. Or even when there's the tiniest HINT that it might be deployed.
So yeah, I can easily see Black people who a) know Ritchie personally and see him as part of their in group, b) are rich and successful in general so they socialized mostly with rich and successful (largely white) people, and c) get a great deal of money selling things to white people, might be reluctant to name his racism as such.
We as a society need to just stop this kind of fake weasel wording and hair splitting cold. Yes, supporting racists makes you a racist. Yes, saying racist things makes you a racist. Yes, associating in a friendly way with racists makes you a racist. Yes, speaking to a racist conference makes you a racist. Yes, waging the traitor flag makes you a racist. Yes, claiming that there are multiple meanings for that flag and some people are just displaying Southern pride makes you a racist.
There's no point in trying to talk about the minutiae of how precisely those people define racism, because that's what they want, that's their endgame. They don't really want us to agree that people like Ritchie aren't racist, they just want us to agree that the question is open until the "debate" and "controversy" are settled and to spend the next ten billion years debating their every utterance.
posted by sotonohito at 2:12 PM on May 27 [12 favorites]
But I don't think I'm 100% wrong.
We've got the in group problem. People in any in group tend to minimize unethical things done by others in the group while maximizing unethical things done by those outside the group. We see a horrifying non-racial example of this with the way so many of the Hollywood old guard, including women who have spoken about the trauma created by their own experiences as victims of sexual assault, trying to claim that Roman Polanski isn't so bad.
Plus, Black people are hardly immune to the "well sure he says racist things and hangs out with racists and supports racist causes but is he REALLY racist?" hairsplitting Danskin discusses in the video I linked (transcript here, sorry I forgot to add it above and I hate video as a format for politics)
One of the victories of the 1960's was convincing America that racism was wrong. But all that did was push the racists back into arguing that they weren't REALLY racist they just [insert racist crap here]. It's a conversation ending term because in contemporary American society "racist" is such a meaning laden word that there's not much room for talk after it's been deployed. Or even when there's the tiniest HINT that it might be deployed.
So yeah, I can easily see Black people who a) know Ritchie personally and see him as part of their in group, b) are rich and successful in general so they socialized mostly with rich and successful (largely white) people, and c) get a great deal of money selling things to white people, might be reluctant to name his racism as such.
We as a society need to just stop this kind of fake weasel wording and hair splitting cold. Yes, supporting racists makes you a racist. Yes, saying racist things makes you a racist. Yes, associating in a friendly way with racists makes you a racist. Yes, speaking to a racist conference makes you a racist. Yes, waging the traitor flag makes you a racist. Yes, claiming that there are multiple meanings for that flag and some people are just displaying Southern pride makes you a racist.
There's no point in trying to talk about the minutiae of how precisely those people define racism, because that's what they want, that's their endgame. They don't really want us to agree that people like Ritchie aren't racist, they just want us to agree that the question is open until the "debate" and "controversy" are settled and to spend the next ten billion years debating their every utterance.
posted by sotonohito at 2:12 PM on May 27 [12 favorites]
Kid Rock was born in 1971; Andrew W.K. was born in 1979. That might factor for something.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 2:33 PM on May 27
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 2:33 PM on May 27
There's also a thing in recovery where becoming an addict can freeze you at whatever level of emotional maturity you'd managed to reach at the time.
Not that I really want to psychoanalyze Kid Rock, but I think it happened (to him) long before 2008. I wish I had a better link for that Grand Royal interview, because I think Kid Rock's personality and worldview were pretty much fully formed by the mid-'90s.
Kid Rock, more than anything, wanted to be down. When he realized that not only were people like his father never going to respect him ('Kid Rock' is not a serious grown-up), but that people like Too $hort (Kid Rock is a tourist), and Jive Records (industry rule #4,080), and the Beastie Boys' too-cool-for-school hangers-on at GR (first sentence: "To live in the Midwest is to live with cultural blinders on."), were never going to respect him either, he basically said 'You can roll with Rock, or you can suck my dick,' and never really looked back.
And, from his perspective (Kid Rock is not especially reflective or self-aware), that's worked out pretty well for him. He has seen financial success vastly disproportionate to his talents (he would probably call it 'fuck you money'), and, like he told Rolling Stone, 'Look around. I live in my own world. And it’s great.' He still wants to be loved ('Will you tell everyone I was at least halfway cool?'), but being hated ('Just write the most horrific article about me. Do it. It helps me.') is much, much easier.
posted by box at 2:36 PM on May 27 [13 favorites]
Not that I really want to psychoanalyze Kid Rock, but I think it happened (to him) long before 2008. I wish I had a better link for that Grand Royal interview, because I think Kid Rock's personality and worldview were pretty much fully formed by the mid-'90s.
Kid Rock, more than anything, wanted to be down. When he realized that not only were people like his father never going to respect him ('Kid Rock' is not a serious grown-up), but that people like Too $hort (Kid Rock is a tourist), and Jive Records (industry rule #4,080), and the Beastie Boys' too-cool-for-school hangers-on at GR (first sentence: "To live in the Midwest is to live with cultural blinders on."), were never going to respect him either, he basically said 'You can roll with Rock, or you can suck my dick,' and never really looked back.
And, from his perspective (Kid Rock is not especially reflective or self-aware), that's worked out pretty well for him. He has seen financial success vastly disproportionate to his talents (he would probably call it 'fuck you money'), and, like he told Rolling Stone, 'Look around. I live in my own world. And it’s great.' He still wants to be loved ('Will you tell everyone I was at least halfway cool?'), but being hated ('Just write the most horrific article about me. Do it. It helps me.') is much, much easier.
posted by box at 2:36 PM on May 27 [13 favorites]
> Kid Rock was born in 1971; Andrew W.K. was born in 1979. That might factor for something.
decanted. andrew wk was decanted in 1979.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 3:03 PM on May 27 [19 favorites]
decanted. andrew wk was decanted in 1979.
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 3:03 PM on May 27 [19 favorites]
Rap-rock is bad just in general. I can’t remember any kid rock songs but I remember seeing him in a fur coat, so he’s “that bad musician that dresses like an old pimp”. Somewhere there’s a demographic that loved Kid Rock back in the day and watched every episode of the Apprentice.
posted by caviar2d2 at 3:31 PM on May 27 [1 favorite]
posted by caviar2d2 at 3:31 PM on May 27 [1 favorite]
"[Pamela Anderson] also couldn't help but throw a little shade about [Kid Rock's] supposed country lifestyle. "When he was with me, he didn't hunt," said Anderson. "I don't think he was very Republican, but now he is. Oh well."
posted by senor biggles at 4:36 PM on May 27 [6 favorites]
posted by senor biggles at 4:36 PM on May 27 [6 favorites]
The "from" and "to" in the title imply there was a change. Fuck this rich fuck cosplaying poor. Fuck that that is the long obvious perspective. Fuck that we already knew that. Fuck that this article exists. And fuck us for giving this future wall-stander any more attention.
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 4:42 PM on May 27 [1 favorite]
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 4:42 PM on May 27 [1 favorite]
"[Pamela Anderson] also couldn't help but throw a little shade about [Kid Rock's] supposed country lifestyle. "When he was with me, he didn't hunt," said Anderson. "I don't think he was very Republican, but now he is. Oh well."
A Republicans aspirational rural signaling actually being bullshit, what a shocker.
posted by Artw at 4:53 PM on May 27 [8 favorites]
A Republicans aspirational rural signaling actually being bullshit, what a shocker.
posted by Artw at 4:53 PM on May 27 [8 favorites]
Andrew WK may have had a show on Glenn Beck's Blaze media, may be close friends with Proud Boys founder Gavin McInnes, and may be a self-proclaimed 'big fan of Breitbart', but at least he hasn't explicitly supported Trump? I guess?
posted by haileris23 at 5:27 PM on May 27 [11 favorites]
posted by haileris23 at 5:27 PM on May 27 [11 favorites]
Well that's fucking disappointing. Somehow, someway, John Brannon will end up being the least problematic rock legend from Michigan. Well, he and Bob Seger
posted by NoMich at 6:01 PM on May 27 [1 favorite]
posted by NoMich at 6:01 PM on May 27 [1 favorite]
Happy Two Minutes Hate everyone.
Minority and queer people not liking a racist transphobe is the opposite of surprising. Should we pretend to think he isn't a terrible person?
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:28 PM on May 27 [20 favorites]
Minority and queer people not liking a racist transphobe is the opposite of surprising. Should we pretend to think he isn't a terrible person?
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:28 PM on May 27 [20 favorites]
the king of old-school partying and take-no-prisoners boasting
As I understand it Kid Rock has charted almost exactly the opposite rap-rock path that the Beastie Boys did.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 9:07 PM on May 27
As I understand it Kid Rock has charted almost exactly the opposite rap-rock path that the Beastie Boys did.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 9:07 PM on May 27
So yeah, I can easily see Black people who a) know Ritchie personally and see him as part of their in group, b) are rich and successful in general so they socialized mostly with rich and successful (largely white) people, and c) get a great deal of money selling things to white people, might be reluctant to name his racism as such
I guess I'm not seeing why you are assuming Wes Chill and Misty Love are 1) rich 2) largely socialize(d) with white people 3) and largely sell things to white people. Like that seems like a lot of assumptions about some black artists and musicians you don't know.
posted by oneirodynia at 9:24 PM on May 27
I guess I'm not seeing why you are assuming Wes Chill and Misty Love are 1) rich 2) largely socialize(d) with white people 3) and largely sell things to white people. Like that seems like a lot of assumptions about some black artists and musicians you don't know.
posted by oneirodynia at 9:24 PM on May 27
At his core he's just another fragile white guy threatened by change, disconnected from reality and using agitprop as a surrogate.
I really can't figure out why rich white people go all-in on white supremacy these days. Economically precarious ones, OK, I can see how they might cling stubbornly to the worldview that keeps them out of the bottom of the heap. It isn't nice but at least it's comprehensible. But rich white people? In any sort of cultural re-evaluation of race short of violent revolution, they'll be fine, they'll still have squillions of dollars to keep themselves comfortably at the top of the social hierarchy.
posted by jackbishop at 6:41 AM on May 28 [3 favorites]
I really can't figure out why rich white people go all-in on white supremacy these days. Economically precarious ones, OK, I can see how they might cling stubbornly to the worldview that keeps them out of the bottom of the heap. It isn't nice but at least it's comprehensible. But rich white people? In any sort of cultural re-evaluation of race short of violent revolution, they'll be fine, they'll still have squillions of dollars to keep themselves comfortably at the top of the social hierarchy.
posted by jackbishop at 6:41 AM on May 28 [3 favorites]
I would simply like to say that if I were born into wealth, I would not expend my privilege trying to make music despite my lack of musical talent or ability, and I would not embrace terrible politics in a dumb stab at holding onto a relevance that, if I ever did have it, I did not deserve in the first place. I would just have a really good time. And no one would ever hear a word about me. Thank you
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:37 AM on May 28 [3 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:37 AM on May 28 [3 favorites]
Please, let's show some respect and address him by his full name:
Child Rockposted by rum-soaked space hobo at 7:43 AM on May 28 [2 favorites]
Also, for a good decade I was supremely confused by Kid Rock discourse online, because I assumed they were talking about Kid from Kid&Play.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 7:44 AM on May 28 [2 favorites]
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 7:44 AM on May 28 [2 favorites]
Christ, what an asshole
posted by gottabefunky at 8:27 AM on May 28 [2 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 8:27 AM on May 28 [2 favorites]
Kid Rock? Are you all talking about the obviously very qualified Fox News political commentator?
posted by misterpatrick at 8:55 AM on May 28 [1 favorite]
posted by misterpatrick at 8:55 AM on May 28 [1 favorite]
I know roughly who this thread is about for.sure, but all I can visualise is the "no ragrets" guy.
posted by Iteki at 9:19 AM on May 28
posted by Iteki at 9:19 AM on May 28
Kod Rick.
posted by box at 9:56 AM on May 28 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 9:56 AM on May 28 [1 favorite]
Happy Two Minutes Hate everyone.
Racism is ignorant. Racism is cruel. It is the silent abandonment of those without power and the cackling glee of the bully who flexes their strength, but both of those and all the other forms of racism are in constant competition to see which can be the meanest and most hateful.
Defending Kid Rock by calling his detractors the hateful ones? That is Orwellian.
posted by AlSweigart at 10:57 AM on May 28 [11 favorites]
Racism is ignorant. Racism is cruel. It is the silent abandonment of those without power and the cackling glee of the bully who flexes their strength, but both of those and all the other forms of racism are in constant competition to see which can be the meanest and most hateful.
Defending Kid Rock by calling his detractors the hateful ones? That is Orwellian.
posted by AlSweigart at 10:57 AM on May 28 [11 favorites]
This is just my armchair psychology so don't take it too seriously but I feel like wealth isolates people and that leads to distorted thinking about just about everything.
Less wealth and more fame, I think? There's a large thing that goes around about how fame sort of stunts you at the moment of personal development that you were at when you became famous.
See Musk, Elon.
I’ve had a personal theory I call the Michael Jackson Theory of Social Isolation. People’s personalities seem to warp when not exposed to a certain level of normal human interaction.
posted by Eikonaut at 11:54 AM on May 28 [2 favorites]
Less wealth and more fame, I think? There's a large thing that goes around about how fame sort of stunts you at the moment of personal development that you were at when you became famous.
See Musk, Elon.
I’ve had a personal theory I call the Michael Jackson Theory of Social Isolation. People’s personalities seem to warp when not exposed to a certain level of normal human interaction.
posted by Eikonaut at 11:54 AM on May 28 [2 favorites]
Drunkenness lowers your ability to say no. Extreme wealth lowers other people's ability to say no to you.
Both have the same effect on personality and judgement.
posted by AlSweigart at 12:20 PM on May 28
Both have the same effect on personality and judgement.
posted by AlSweigart at 12:20 PM on May 28
Very hard to feel much empathy for that dude.
MAGA culture is sly enough about racism to somehow get POC into their movement at nonzero levels. As far as calling him racist I always think back to Jay Smooths classic video about the "what they did" and the "what they are" conversation. I don't think Kid Rock gets away by the "what they did and said" measure.
My condemnation is that I have never ever, in decades of mixtape-making, mix CD making, and playlist making, included ANY song by or including Kid Rock.
posted by artlung at 12:50 PM on May 28 [3 favorites]
MAGA culture is sly enough about racism to somehow get POC into their movement at nonzero levels. As far as calling him racist I always think back to Jay Smooths classic video about the "what they did" and the "what they are" conversation. I don't think Kid Rock gets away by the "what they did and said" measure.
My condemnation is that I have never ever, in decades of mixtape-making, mix CD making, and playlist making, included ANY song by or including Kid Rock.
posted by artlung at 12:50 PM on May 28 [3 favorites]
Kid Rock is so full of shit. His kid sister is literally Janet from the movie D.E.B.S.
posted by jonp72 at 8:56 AM on May 29
posted by jonp72 at 8:56 AM on May 29
I've never heard of that movie before and honestly it looks pretty great. Not clear how it's even further proof of him being a jerk, though.
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:29 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:29 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
It's not proof he is a jerk, It is proof his whole white trash "straight from the trailer" act is a put on.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 5:28 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 5:28 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
(This article (Detroit Free Press, 2017), about native-son white rappers Eminem, Insane Clown Posse, and Kid Rock, might be of interest to someone who’s still reading the comments.)
posted by box at 5:47 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 5:47 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
Eventually, Peisner gets a lift (in an ATV, for a 1/2 mile trip, in a wooded area, uphill, at night) back to his car (aka The 1st Sergeant Ransom) from the increasingly combative interviewee.
While WHOPPINGLY SUPER DRUNK (one more for the road!) and he's also got a gun.
The ending of this. Wow and good God.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:03 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
While WHOPPINGLY SUPER DRUNK (one more for the road!) and he's also got a gun.
The ending of this. Wow and good God.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:03 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
Perhaps Kid Rock is part of the secret team controlling the fictional Andrews W.K.
posted by SystematicAbuse at 12:02 PM on May 30
posted by SystematicAbuse at 12:02 PM on May 30
> Rap-rock is bad just in general
the kids these days are harvesting all the sounds of the early 2000s and picking out what’s interesting about them. i haven’t heard much gen z rap-rock proper, but (for example) 100 gecs have been doing some interesting new nu-metal
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 3:58 AM on May 31
the kids these days are harvesting all the sounds of the early 2000s and picking out what’s interesting about them. i haven’t heard much gen z rap-rock proper, but (for example) 100 gecs have been doing some interesting new nu-metal
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 3:58 AM on May 31
What the fuck happened to that nice guy? What the fuck happened to so many normal people that Trump is a thing???
Something is really making people yearn for authority. It could be the gloom-n-doom news of Climate Change, or something else. The more authoritarian he gets, the more popular he is with people who react viscerally. Meanwhile, he is useful to the Very Rich, because hewill promote tax policy that's generous to them, as well as military and other government deals where they will profit a great deal. This is an extremely cynical time.
posted by theora55 at 3:15 PM on June 2
Something is really making people yearn for authority. It could be the gloom-n-doom news of Climate Change, or something else. The more authoritarian he gets, the more popular he is with people who react viscerally. Meanwhile, he is useful to the Very Rich, because hewill promote tax policy that's generous to them, as well as military and other government deals where they will profit a great deal. This is an extremely cynical time.
posted by theora55 at 3:15 PM on June 2
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Yeah that seems about right.
posted by Artw at 9:22 AM on May 27 [71 favorites]