So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time ...
May 29, 2024 5:29 AM Subscribe
The best music, the happiest families, the best fashion, movies, television, even the best cuisine--when did America peak? Whenever it was that you were a kid, a new poll shows.
Are Americans in aggregate really that self-centred and shallow? I can't get the archive to load so I'm not able to read the article. It's disconcerting to think that people don't recognize how fucking far we've come from the 40s 60s 80s 00s in almost every metric. Well, I guess wealth disparity. That sucks. But otherwise?
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:35 AM on May 29 [8 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:35 AM on May 29 [8 favorites]
The day before Antonin Scalia died, then all hell broke loose.
posted by phunniemee at 5:37 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 5:37 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
I feel like there’s a real “when I was a child, I reasoned as a child” going on in this polling. Life wasn’t simpler when you were fourteen; your understanding of life was simpler. You had one or more adults (parents, teachers, neighbors, relatives) bearing up under the weight and complexity and fragility of the world for you and shielding you under their wing. Now, you have to do that for yourself and for the younger generation and it is a terrible burden.
Of course it was better when I was fourteen, and I hated it when I was fourteen.
posted by gauche at 5:44 AM on May 29 [36 favorites]
Of course it was better when I was fourteen, and I hated it when I was fourteen.
posted by gauche at 5:44 AM on May 29 [36 favorites]
You had one or more adults (parents, teachers, neighbors, relatives) bearing up under the weight and complexity and fragility of the world for you and shielding you under their wing
That is by no means true for all of us.
Many of us were parentified children, who were expected to worry about our parents practical and emotional needs from a far-too-young-age.
Also, for those of us who are LGBT, and had homophobic parents, we learned about the weight and complexity and fragility of the world far too young.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 5:46 AM on May 29 [30 favorites]
That is by no means true for all of us.
Many of us were parentified children, who were expected to worry about our parents practical and emotional needs from a far-too-young-age.
Also, for those of us who are LGBT, and had homophobic parents, we learned about the weight and complexity and fragility of the world far too young.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 5:46 AM on May 29 [30 favorites]
Did they explain how Reagan ruined everything? This is my opinion based on casual history; I don't much remember the time before him.
And yes, this seems to really be more about privilege. If you're rich enough and good enough at ignoring moral problems and the suffering of others and the environmental destruction that hasn't impacted you much yet, things are going great.
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:49 AM on May 29 [18 favorites]
And yes, this seems to really be more about privilege. If you're rich enough and good enough at ignoring moral problems and the suffering of others and the environmental destruction that hasn't impacted you much yet, things are going great.
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:49 AM on May 29 [18 favorites]
Are Americans in aggregate really that self-centred and shallow?
We’re paid to be. Poorly.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:51 AM on May 29 [6 favorites]
We’re paid to be. Poorly.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:51 AM on May 29 [6 favorites]
But almost without exception, if you ask an American when times were worst, the most common response will be “right now!”posted by box at 5:51 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
This holds true even when “now” is clearly not the right answer.
I have long said that the inflection point was February 7, 1974.
It's been all downhill since Mel Brooks released Blazing Saddles.
posted by mikelieman at 5:51 AM on May 29 [6 favorites]
It's been all downhill since Mel Brooks released Blazing Saddles.
posted by mikelieman at 5:51 AM on May 29 [6 favorites]
It was a simpler, better time. (John Oliver,6min video) reached the same conclusions in 2010....(when it was a simpler, better time...)
posted by lalochezia at 5:52 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 5:52 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
My family and partner and I have been boggling over this data for the past week so instead I'll point out that I really like the cover shot they chose for this article. Seeing a quiet moment of joy captured recently in a park near where I live used to represent the concept of "childhood" made me happy. Tanner Park is a nice spot. It was pretty much nothing before they renovated it and added a walking/bike trail with murals nearby. A great place to play with your kid or eat a sandwich or see an outdoor movie (and ooh, they're showing The Lost City on the 12th; I've been wanting to see that...)
posted by capricorn at 5:52 AM on May 29 [3 favorites]
posted by capricorn at 5:52 AM on May 29 [3 favorites]
I have to say, as someone whose parents were violently physically abusive and deeply physically neglectful, medically neglectful, and emotionally neglectful, the idea that childhood is this sheltered time does not resonate with me.
While adulthood has challenges, it is not a living hell/living nightmare in the same way that much of my childhood was.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 5:57 AM on May 29 [10 favorites]
While adulthood has challenges, it is not a living hell/living nightmare in the same way that much of my childhood was.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 5:57 AM on May 29 [10 favorites]
Did they explain how Reagan ruined everything?
or Thatcher? let's put the great back in great america, again?
posted by HearHere at 6:04 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
or Thatcher? let's put the great back in great america, again?
posted by HearHere at 6:04 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
chariot pulled by cassowaries: I have to say, as someone whose parents were violently physically abusive and deeply physically neglectful, medically neglectful, and emotionally neglectful, the idea that childhood is this sheltered time does not resonate with me.
I think it's more like no matter what's going on at home, the outside world and the way it works seems simpler and more peaceful, because we aren't yet immersed in the news or politics and it isn't impacting us. (I spent my 90s childhood a neurodivergent kid, lonely, misunderstood, and frequently overwhelmed, but I had no idea what Desert Storm was or who Rodney King was.) And that we're nostalgic about the media we grew up with even if it objectively wasn't very good ahem what do you mean, Pokémon: 2.B.A. Master: Music from the Hit TV Series is a work of unrivaled genius!
Though it did sound like in John Oliver's clip that if you grew up during the Great Depression you knew what was going on (or say, if you're 6 now and you live in Palestine or Ukraine or Nagorno-Karabach you probably won't look back on 2024 as an idyllic time; or if you were a Black kid in the 90s you probably did know who Rodney King was)
posted by capricorn at 6:06 AM on May 29 [8 favorites]
I think it's more like no matter what's going on at home, the outside world and the way it works seems simpler and more peaceful, because we aren't yet immersed in the news or politics and it isn't impacting us. (I spent my 90s childhood a neurodivergent kid, lonely, misunderstood, and frequently overwhelmed, but I had no idea what Desert Storm was or who Rodney King was.) And that we're nostalgic about the media we grew up with even if it objectively wasn't very good ahem what do you mean, Pokémon: 2.B.A. Master: Music from the Hit TV Series is a work of unrivaled genius!
Though it did sound like in John Oliver's clip that if you grew up during the Great Depression you knew what was going on (or say, if you're 6 now and you live in Palestine or Ukraine or Nagorno-Karabach you probably won't look back on 2024 as an idyllic time; or if you were a Black kid in the 90s you probably did know who Rodney King was)
posted by capricorn at 6:06 AM on May 29 [8 favorites]
I think a huge chunk of this for my generation at least could be tied to people who peaked in high school and hate that that vibe didn't continue.
posted by Kitteh at 6:06 AM on May 29 [13 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 6:06 AM on May 29 [13 favorites]
I was born in 1973 and I'm here to tell you that if nothing else food is much better across the board these days in terms of the diversity of options, cuisines, etc., available. Also the entire world doesn't smell like stale cigarettes.
> I think a huge chunk of this for my generation at least could be tied to people who peaked in high school and hate that that vibe didn't continue.
High school having sucked is now my ace in the hole in terms of avoiding a midlife crisis.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:14 AM on May 29 [25 favorites]
> I think a huge chunk of this for my generation at least could be tied to people who peaked in high school and hate that that vibe didn't continue.
High school having sucked is now my ace in the hole in terms of avoiding a midlife crisis.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:14 AM on May 29 [25 favorites]
I love that the Music / Age chart is basically the normal distribution.
posted by signal at 6:15 AM on May 29 [4 favorites]
posted by signal at 6:15 AM on May 29 [4 favorites]
I think it's more like no matter what's going on at home, the outside world and the way it works seems simpler and more peaceful, because we aren't yet immersed in the news or politics and it isn't impacting us
I disagree with this too.
I read everything I could get my hands on as a child (and I had access to a church library that was entirely selfservice/honour system and full of material that was not suitable for children),
so I knew about the Nazis invading Holland and kidnapping Jewish families (when I was a young child I used to regularly hide all my toys, drawings, and photos of me in case Nazis came so they wouldn't know I was hiding in the roof space. The books by Corrie Ten Boom had not made it clear to child-me that Nazis were not a going concern in Australia in the 1970s/1980s)
I knew about HIV/AIDS and that people blamed the people who had it
I knew about Azaria Chamberlain and Lindy Chamberlain
I knew about New York gang warfare in the 1970s
(The Cross And The Switchblade)
I knew about car accidents causing spinal injuries
I knew about eating disorders
I knew about refugees having to flee their home countries (my parents church had a lot of refugees from Asian countries, mainly but not only Vietnam)
I knew about The Iron Curtain in Russia (lots of stories about missionaries being locked up for bibles)
I knew about the coup in Chile and nuns being shot for providing medical treatment to protestors (Sheila Cassidy, Audacity To Believe)
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 6:17 AM on May 29 [9 favorites]
I disagree with this too.
I read everything I could get my hands on as a child (and I had access to a church library that was entirely selfservice/honour system and full of material that was not suitable for children),
so I knew about the Nazis invading Holland and kidnapping Jewish families (when I was a young child I used to regularly hide all my toys, drawings, and photos of me in case Nazis came so they wouldn't know I was hiding in the roof space. The books by Corrie Ten Boom had not made it clear to child-me that Nazis were not a going concern in Australia in the 1970s/1980s)
I knew about HIV/AIDS and that people blamed the people who had it
I knew about Azaria Chamberlain and Lindy Chamberlain
I knew about New York gang warfare in the 1970s
(The Cross And The Switchblade)
I knew about car accidents causing spinal injuries
I knew about eating disorders
I knew about refugees having to flee their home countries (my parents church had a lot of refugees from Asian countries, mainly but not only Vietnam)
I knew about The Iron Curtain in Russia (lots of stories about missionaries being locked up for bibles)
I knew about the coup in Chile and nuns being shot for providing medical treatment to protestors (Sheila Cassidy, Audacity To Believe)
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 6:17 AM on May 29 [9 favorites]
obligatory:
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
—Douglas Adams
posted by kliuless at 6:18 AM on May 29 [41 favorites]
Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
—Douglas Adams
posted by kliuless at 6:18 AM on May 29 [41 favorites]
I grew up in a military dictatorship, with relatives being tortured, etc., so things could really only get better after that.
Also, there's never been a better time for music than right now.
posted by signal at 6:19 AM on May 29 [11 favorites]
Also, there's never been a better time for music than right now.
posted by signal at 6:19 AM on May 29 [11 favorites]
Heck, I heard about the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior when that happened, and I was 9 years old at the time.
So when I was 9 years old, I knew that if you protested against nuclear weapons/whaling the French government might blow your ship up and kill you. (One person was killed.)
"Rainbow Warrior, then captained by Peter Willcox, was sabotaged and sunk just before midnight NZST on 10 July 1985, by two explosive devices attached to the hull by operatives of the French intelligence service (DGSE). One of the twelve people on board, photographer Fernando Pereira, returned to the ship after the first explosion to attempt to retrieve his equipment, and was killed when the ship was sunk by the second, larger explosion."
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 6:21 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
So when I was 9 years old, I knew that if you protested against nuclear weapons/whaling the French government might blow your ship up and kill you. (One person was killed.)
"Rainbow Warrior, then captained by Peter Willcox, was sabotaged and sunk just before midnight NZST on 10 July 1985, by two explosive devices attached to the hull by operatives of the French intelligence service (DGSE). One of the twelve people on board, photographer Fernando Pereira, returned to the ship after the first explosion to attempt to retrieve his equipment, and was killed when the ship was sunk by the second, larger explosion."
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 6:21 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
You can go in a restaurant or bar now and not choke on cigarette smoke. That's huge. If you didn't live through that you have no idea what dark times those were.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:22 AM on May 29 [43 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:22 AM on May 29 [43 favorites]
The world is better today in almost every conceivable way than it was when I was a teenager. It also still fucking sucks. Existence is suffering, surveys are pointless, people are morons.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:32 AM on May 29 [22 favorites]
posted by uncleozzy at 6:32 AM on May 29 [22 favorites]
Yeah, cigarette smoke indoors and outdoors it was vehicles with leaded gas and little to no emissions control. The world stank, literally. I am still amazed sometimes just how much more pleasant it is to walk on a sidewalk alongside traffic than it was in my youth.
posted by fimbulvetr at 6:35 AM on May 29 [7 favorites]
posted by fimbulvetr at 6:35 AM on May 29 [7 favorites]
Online features pointing out that people think things were better when they were twelve were better when you were twelve... if you were twelve in 2007, when Ruben Bolling drew this.
posted by rory at 6:38 AM on May 29 [11 favorites]
posted by rory at 6:38 AM on May 29 [11 favorites]
America has all been downhill since 1492.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:43 AM on May 29 [16 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:43 AM on May 29 [16 favorites]
The data seems to suggest cuisine is one of the few things that people aren't blinded by nostalgia-filters on, which is kind of unsurprising --- America has gotten a lot more flavorful, a lot more adventurous, and a lot more diverse without losing the old standbys. Nobody's actually nostalgic for carob cookies or Jell-O molds or Oh Henry! stuffed tomatoes, and anyone nostalgic for a plain burger or a club sandwich or a Casear salad can still find them.
posted by jackbishop at 6:55 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
posted by jackbishop at 6:55 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
If you scroll down to the key graph in the piece titled: "Nostalgia tends to peak at a single age", you see a nice set of humps that seem to illustrate the point. BUT THE GRAPH HAS NO VERTICAL AXIS UNITS. wtf. #meaningless. I remember when I was young, graphs were a lot more sensible.
posted by storybored at 6:55 AM on May 29 [18 favorites]
posted by storybored at 6:55 AM on May 29 [18 favorites]
It has been established that, around the age of 12 years, adolescents decrease their reliance on concrete thinking and begin to show the capacity for abstract thinking, visualization of potential outcomes, and a logical understanding of cause and effect.In short, the beginning of puberty marks the end of our simple understanding of ourselves and the world. Things move from glorious primary colors to a shifting map of obscure tones. It seems very natural for us to remember our simple worlds in terms of ideals and everything after that as a series of compromises and complications.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:02 AM on May 29 [7 favorites]
The Nostalgia Tends To Peak At A Certain Age chart contains information I would like to share with people, but I find the presentation awkward. Does anyone have any ideas for better structure and/or labelling?
In particular the label on the X axis is hard to parse at first glance.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:07 AM on May 29
In particular the label on the X axis is hard to parse at first glance.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:07 AM on May 29
I was amused at the perception of a spike in morality between the 30s and 60s. We're so good at fooling ourselves.
posted by somebodystrousers at 7:09 AM on May 29 [4 favorites]
posted by somebodystrousers at 7:09 AM on May 29 [4 favorites]
In particular the label on the X axis is hard to parse at first glance.
I don't seem to have any trouble parsing it. For example, seventy years before I was born, I think that TV wasn't very good. :)
posted by storybored at 7:19 AM on May 29 [2 favorites]
I don't seem to have any trouble parsing it. For example, seventy years before I was born, I think that TV wasn't very good. :)
posted by storybored at 7:19 AM on May 29 [2 favorites]
I don't seem to have any trouble parsing it. For example, seventy years before I was born, I think that TV wasn't very good. :)
:-)
I think the problem is that the left arrow says “Years before birth” and the right arrow says “Years old". It should probably say “Years after birth”.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:23 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
:-)
I think the problem is that the left arrow says “Years before birth” and the right arrow says “Years old". It should probably say “Years after birth”.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:23 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
Isn't this kind of a cliché
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:33 AM on May 29 [2 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:33 AM on May 29 [2 favorites]
If you scroll down to the key graph in the piece titled: "Nostalgia tends to peak at a single age", you see a nice set of humps that seem to illustrate the point. BUT THE GRAPH HAS NO VERTICAL AXIS UNITS. wtf. #meaningless.
They appear to be kernel densities, so the vertical axis should be probability.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:53 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
They appear to be kernel densities, so the vertical axis should be probability.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:53 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
As Luc Sante said in Lowlife:
"The common word for this kind of distortion is “nostalgia.” This word can be generally defined as a state of inarticulate contempt for the present and fear of the future, in concert with a yearning for order, constancy, safety, and community—qualities that were last enjoyed in childhood and are retroactively imagined as gracing the whole of the time before one’s birth. Recently it has become a category of trade, under which are marketed the knickknacks and ephemera of past decades; in this function it encompasses connoisseurship, fetishism, fashion cycles, and social history, and makes them all equally base coin."
posted by KrampusQuick at 7:56 AM on May 29 [9 favorites]
"The common word for this kind of distortion is “nostalgia.” This word can be generally defined as a state of inarticulate contempt for the present and fear of the future, in concert with a yearning for order, constancy, safety, and community—qualities that were last enjoyed in childhood and are retroactively imagined as gracing the whole of the time before one’s birth. Recently it has become a category of trade, under which are marketed the knickknacks and ephemera of past decades; in this function it encompasses connoisseurship, fetishism, fashion cycles, and social history, and makes them all equally base coin."
posted by KrampusQuick at 7:56 AM on May 29 [9 favorites]
I read an article one time - I'll see if I can find it - that proposed a "nostalgia bump" based on physical brain development, where between age 15ish and 20ish your senses are as strong as they will be in your adult life and your neural capacity to form long-term memories peaks, such that the memories you have of sensations (music, say, or a first love) from that period will be the most vivid memories of your life. This explains why music was the best when you were in high school.
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 7:59 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 7:59 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
I had a pretty rough and scary childhood and yet, especially now that I'm in my 50s, I feel pretty damn nostalgic about it. It makes me feel very conflicted. It's also weird that I worked very hard to learn to operate in that world and by the time I kinda had it worked out, that world was gone. Ah, the joys of aging!
posted by snsranch at 8:01 AM on May 29 [3 favorites]
posted by snsranch at 8:01 AM on May 29 [3 favorites]
Listen, did I enjoy being a teen in the early 90s? I guess so but then I had undiagnosed anxiety disorder and suicidal ideation and I can tell you that it made the early 90s a leeeeeetle less nostalgic for me
posted by Kitteh at 8:04 AM on May 29 [8 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:04 AM on May 29 [8 favorites]
Everyone knows television peaked between September 30, 1993 and May 21, 1995 when both Batman: The Animated Series and The Simpsons season 5 and 6 were airing.
posted by star gentle uterus at 8:04 AM on May 29 [10 favorites]
posted by star gentle uterus at 8:04 AM on May 29 [10 favorites]
I was an extremely nervous, unhappy child but any objective standard, the summer of 1970 in southern Ontario, hunting fossils, listening to Detroit (Windsor) radio CKLW and watching Sir Graves Ghastly horror films on Saturdays, building Ratfink model roadsters - it stands above all others and I'm doing my best to spend my old age emulating it.
posted by brachiopod at 8:13 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
posted by brachiopod at 8:13 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
Are Americans in aggregate really that self-centred and shallow?
Well, some are, but more to the point, the WaPo is absolutely that self-centered and shallow. And like most conservatives they want to believe that everybody else's reasons and motivations are the same as theirs.
posted by Pedantzilla at 8:15 AM on May 29 [6 favorites]
Well, some are, but more to the point, the WaPo is absolutely that self-centered and shallow. And like most conservatives they want to believe that everybody else's reasons and motivations are the same as theirs.
posted by Pedantzilla at 8:15 AM on May 29 [6 favorites]
One weird thing I had was growing up in the 90s watching PBS (and reruns)- mostly Sesame Street of course, but others also- gave me a very specific idea of what the adult world looked like, and by the time I was an adult, that was almost two decades out of date. Which was subtly disorienting! At some level I expected it to still be 1993.
posted by BungaDunga at 8:28 AM on May 29 [4 favorites]
posted by BungaDunga at 8:28 AM on May 29 [4 favorites]
Everyone knows television peaked between September 30, 1993 and May 21, 1995 when both Batman: The Animated Series and The Simpsons season 5 and 6 were airing
That also probably tracks with peak MTV content...
posted by Molesome at 8:33 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
That also probably tracks with peak MTV content...
posted by Molesome at 8:33 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
I was amused at the perception of a spike in morality between the 30s and 60s. We're so good at fooling ourselves.
Well, in fairness, in at least a couple Western countries there are organized political groups dedicated to promulgating that idea and insisting upon it at every possible opportunity. In other countries there are similar groups, although they mostly aim at different timeframes depending on their specific cultural environment (cf. weird ahistorical currents within the BJP-style hindutva)
posted by aramaic at 8:33 AM on May 29 [2 favorites]
Well, in fairness, in at least a couple Western countries there are organized political groups dedicated to promulgating that idea and insisting upon it at every possible opportunity. In other countries there are similar groups, although they mostly aim at different timeframes depending on their specific cultural environment (cf. weird ahistorical currents within the BJP-style hindutva)
posted by aramaic at 8:33 AM on May 29 [2 favorites]
I really liked the America a lot of us well-meaning people convinced ourselves we would be getting in Obama's first term. That sounded great.
It, uh, didn't work out, for a variety of reasons.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:39 AM on May 29 [13 favorites]
It, uh, didn't work out, for a variety of reasons.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:39 AM on May 29 [13 favorites]
I immigrated to the US in the late 90s (when I was in my early 20s) and that time felt euphoric. But looking back, it was a foolish euphoria constructed on thin ice.
Just a couple years later, me and my other brown friends were being called terrorists by random strangers on the street based on how we looked, and then there was the popular decision on invade Iraq, "freedom fries" etc. So was the "peak" right before that truly a peak or just a mirage?
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:40 AM on May 29 [4 favorites]
Just a couple years later, me and my other brown friends were being called terrorists by random strangers on the street based on how we looked, and then there was the popular decision on invade Iraq, "freedom fries" etc. So was the "peak" right before that truly a peak or just a mirage?
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:40 AM on May 29 [4 favorites]
One weird thing I had was growing up in the 90s watching PBS (and reruns)- mostly Sesame Street of course, but others also- gave me a very specific idea of what the adult world looked like, and by the time I was an adult, that was almost two decades out of date. Which was subtly disorienting! At some level I expected it to still be 1993.
Same, except rental VHS covers and promos for R-rated movies on Entertainment Tonight. I am both disappointed and immensely relieved by how little my adult life has resembled an erotic thriller...
posted by nanny's striped stocking at 8:40 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
Same, except rental VHS covers and promos for R-rated movies on Entertainment Tonight. I am both disappointed and immensely relieved by how little my adult life has resembled an erotic thriller...
posted by nanny's striped stocking at 8:40 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
something, something, end of history illusion?
The first time I heard about that I thought yup, that tracks. (Seems related but I need to come back later to rtfa.)
posted by Glinn at 8:42 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
The first time I heard about that I thought yup, that tracks. (Seems related but I need to come back later to rtfa.)
posted by Glinn at 8:42 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
You can go in a restaurant or bar now and not choke on cigarette smoke. That's huge. If you didn't live through that you have no idea what dark times those were.
posted by seanmpuckett
If you are ever in The Miami Airport, they have a handful of outdoor smoking areas inside the airport. These are glass enclosures, generally adjacent to a restaurant bar and it looks like a really depressing Ape enclosure at a zoo, because you can see that the hole in the ceiling goes all the way up and out of the airport. These are really OUTSIDE spaces in the mathematician-grabs-the-fence-rolls-it-around-themself-and-then-defines-themself-as-being-on-the-outside sense. I can't begin to think how much effort has gone in to making this lung cancer terrarium to follow and simultaneously reject TSA and FAA guidelines.
posted by Nanukthedog at 8:49 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett
If you are ever in The Miami Airport, they have a handful of outdoor smoking areas inside the airport. These are glass enclosures, generally adjacent to a restaurant bar and it looks like a really depressing Ape enclosure at a zoo, because you can see that the hole in the ceiling goes all the way up and out of the airport. These are really OUTSIDE spaces in the mathematician-grabs-the-fence-rolls-it-around-themself-and-then-defines-themself-as-being-on-the-outside sense. I can't begin to think how much effort has gone in to making this lung cancer terrarium to follow and simultaneously reject TSA and FAA guidelines.
posted by Nanukthedog at 8:49 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
For white males being born in America in 1943 or so is probably optimum. Too young for Korea, too old for Vietnam, just in time for the great compression.
1943 was not great for people who were not white, not male, or non conforming.
Being born now means dealing with serious climate change in your 30s. However, you also get a lot of social, medical, and technical progress.
posted by pdoege at 8:58 AM on May 29 [3 favorites]
1943 was not great for people who were not white, not male, or non conforming.
Being born now means dealing with serious climate change in your 30s. However, you also get a lot of social, medical, and technical progress.
posted by pdoege at 8:58 AM on May 29 [3 favorites]
Similarly, I've heard "The 'Golden Age' of science fiction is 12"
posted by rmd1023 at 8:59 AM on May 29 [6 favorites]
posted by rmd1023 at 8:59 AM on May 29 [6 favorites]
article. It's disconcerting to think that people don't recognize how fucking far we've come from the 40s 60s 80s 00s in almost every metric. Well, I guess wealth disparity. That sucks. But otherwise?
When I was a kid, you could work part time as a pizza delivery driver and pay for an apartment. College tuition cost less than 10k a year, and gas was under a dollar a gallon, and a used car cost under 1K.
I’d take the fucking secondhand smoke in a *heartbeat* to get that back.
posted by corb at 9:01 AM on May 29 [11 favorites]
When I was a kid, you could work part time as a pizza delivery driver and pay for an apartment. College tuition cost less than 10k a year, and gas was under a dollar a gallon, and a used car cost under 1K.
I’d take the fucking secondhand smoke in a *heartbeat* to get that back.
posted by corb at 9:01 AM on May 29 [11 favorites]
oh, about 8.45 am on 09/11/01
we haven't been the same since
posted by pyramid termite at 9:07 AM on May 29 [7 favorites]
we haven't been the same since
posted by pyramid termite at 9:07 AM on May 29 [7 favorites]
-when did America peak?
some friends used to live at a place with a street address of 1491. When giving directions, they would say, "just think of the last good year they had on this continent."
posted by philip-random at 9:13 AM on May 29 [4 favorites]
some friends used to live at a place with a street address of 1491. When giving directions, they would say, "just think of the last good year they had on this continent."
posted by philip-random at 9:13 AM on May 29 [4 favorites]
Similarly, I've heard "The 'Golden Age' of science fiction is 12"
I read that as “12 inches,” and thought that is a different sort of nostalgia….
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:14 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
I read that as “12 inches,” and thought that is a different sort of nostalgia….
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:14 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
I don't think having secondhand smoke strongly correlates to having a functional middle class,. I mean if that was the payment, we could talk about it. But I'm pretty sure all we'd get would be secondhand smoke and carve-outs on health insurance for lung cancer for people who go to bars and restaurants. And everything else just as bad. So really just a coincidence back then really.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:15 AM on May 29 [3 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:15 AM on May 29 [3 favorites]
I do rather pine for the days when my immediate family was twice the size it is today, so any questions I answer on "the good old days" are bound to reflect that.
posted by JanetLand at 9:16 AM on May 29 [6 favorites]
posted by JanetLand at 9:16 AM on May 29 [6 favorites]
I always think this kind of question is like the "what are the hundred best albums" question in that it steers people not to think and to give misleading answers.
Even a question as simple as "when did American cuisine peak" is pretty meaningless until you qualify it - are we talking about average produce quality, which probably peaked when most people lived closer to farms? Are we talking about variety? Are we talking about nutritional density? Are we talking about "best time to get a quick sandwich"?
Since we already know that for children who live relatively secure lives in non-abusive families with stable housing and fairly good family health, there is often a "peak" in childhood, just reaffirming this doesn't tell us much.
I have developed some familiarity with sociology surveys recently and every time I look closely at one, I think, "this is a terrible way to understand what people believe", because it asks questions as if a normal person would easily be able to say yes or no on a scale of one to seven when most people would obviously say "it depends on the situation" or "for some people".
posted by Frowner at 9:27 AM on May 29 [4 favorites]
Even a question as simple as "when did American cuisine peak" is pretty meaningless until you qualify it - are we talking about average produce quality, which probably peaked when most people lived closer to farms? Are we talking about variety? Are we talking about nutritional density? Are we talking about "best time to get a quick sandwich"?
Since we already know that for children who live relatively secure lives in non-abusive families with stable housing and fairly good family health, there is often a "peak" in childhood, just reaffirming this doesn't tell us much.
I have developed some familiarity with sociology surveys recently and every time I look closely at one, I think, "this is a terrible way to understand what people believe", because it asks questions as if a normal person would easily be able to say yes or no on a scale of one to seven when most people would obviously say "it depends on the situation" or "for some people".
posted by Frowner at 9:27 AM on May 29 [4 favorites]
Confirmed: Best Zelda Game Objectively Whichever One Came Out When You Were 13
posted by downtohisturtles at 9:28 AM on May 29 [7 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 9:28 AM on May 29 [7 favorites]
really just a coincidence back then really
Yeah, I was meaning more “some decades had some objectively good shit” rather than arguing for a return of secondhand smoke.
I think the actual closest related thing to “why things got worse rapidly” is actually computers - not that capital wouldn’t have cheerfully knifed people for a dime before, but pre-widespread personal computer, you couldn’t possibly get away with shift scheduling the way it works now or the bare minimum staffing levels that exist, which make everyone’s work harder and pay worse, or had the ability to search all rent prices at once and raise yours accordingly.
posted by corb at 9:30 AM on May 29 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I was meaning more “some decades had some objectively good shit” rather than arguing for a return of secondhand smoke.
I think the actual closest related thing to “why things got worse rapidly” is actually computers - not that capital wouldn’t have cheerfully knifed people for a dime before, but pre-widespread personal computer, you couldn’t possibly get away with shift scheduling the way it works now or the bare minimum staffing levels that exist, which make everyone’s work harder and pay worse, or had the ability to search all rent prices at once and raise yours accordingly.
posted by corb at 9:30 AM on May 29 [3 favorites]
For me, it was when Apollo 11 landed on the Moon. Then came the 70s, which made it clear it was all a house of cards and the post-war boom had ended. It's only been getting worse since then.
posted by tommasz at 9:40 AM on May 29 [2 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 9:40 AM on May 29 [2 favorites]
Computers helped capital but Reaganomics killed the regulations and taxes that held capital back. We could have computers and an equitable society if we had politicians with spines but evolution is not favouring that.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:41 AM on May 29 [12 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:41 AM on May 29 [12 favorites]
The best year in world history was either 1996, when Belle and Sebastian released Tigermilk and If You’re Feeling Sinister, or 2006, when they released The Life Pursuit.
posted by betweenthebars at 9:52 AM on May 29 [4 favorites]
posted by betweenthebars at 9:52 AM on May 29 [4 favorites]
As a video gamer? The golden age of the arcade was the early 80s, when I was a teen. There have been great games since then, there have been entire eras of great games since then, but that was the absolute peak of it as far as I'm concerned.
As an American? Looking around and seeing that non-WASP-cis-het-conservative-males finally made headway towards being full citizens with full legal and civil rights DURING my lifetime in varying degrees? No, when I was a kid was not better. We're getting better now than we were then... slowly, gradually, and with setbacks, but at least it's a process.
posted by delfin at 9:57 AM on May 29
As an American? Looking around and seeing that non-WASP-cis-het-conservative-males finally made headway towards being full citizens with full legal and civil rights DURING my lifetime in varying degrees? No, when I was a kid was not better. We're getting better now than we were then... slowly, gradually, and with setbacks, but at least it's a process.
posted by delfin at 9:57 AM on May 29
Hm. I think the 90s were the best, which was also when I lived in the US. But one of the things I enjoyed about the 90s was all the 70s revival stuff, because I really liked the 70s too.
My childhood was quite rough overall, but I remember the good things more than the other stuff.
posted by mumimor at 10:02 AM on May 29
My childhood was quite rough overall, but I remember the good things more than the other stuff.
posted by mumimor at 10:02 AM on May 29
the progress made on healthcare, gay marriage, LGBTQ rights, and other modern issues during the (early) obama presidency (not to mention the fact that obama won the election in the first place) made me feel like things were finally moving in the right direction - policy just might be starting to align with the evolving world and the sentiment of my fellow americans. what i did not know is that it was terrorizing as much as half of the country as the end of the world as they knew it, and we are now seeing the effects of that backlash in full force. :(
posted by rude.boy at 10:11 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
posted by rude.boy at 10:11 AM on May 29 [5 favorites]
Against being age-specific:
But almost without exception, if you ask an American when times were worst, the most common response will be “right now!”
posted by doctornemo at 10:23 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
But almost without exception, if you ask an American when times were worst, the most common response will be “right now!”
posted by doctornemo at 10:23 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
I read an article one time - I'll see if I can find it - that proposed a "nostalgia bump" based on physical brain development
It's called the reminiscence bump
posted by svenx at 10:23 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
It's called the reminiscence bump
posted by svenx at 10:23 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
That chart of nostalgia peaks fading into the distance somehow makes me... wistful.
posted by pracowity at 10:42 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
posted by pracowity at 10:42 AM on May 29 [1 favorite]
Old people have been saying that the world is going to hell since there have been old people.
The older I get, the easier it becomes to see how they've been right all along. Sorry, kids. We fucked it.
soundtrack for the thread
posted by flabdablet at 10:50 AM on May 29
The older I get, the easier it becomes to see how they've been right all along. Sorry, kids. We fucked it.
soundtrack for the thread
posted by flabdablet at 10:50 AM on May 29
When I was a kid, you could work part time as a pizza delivery driver and pay for an apartment
I'm 57 years old and never knew a time when this was true in any reliable way.
posted by 2N2222 at 11:03 AM on May 29 [6 favorites]
I'm 57 years old and never knew a time when this was true in any reliable way.
posted by 2N2222 at 11:03 AM on May 29 [6 favorites]
I spent 1996 through 1998 living in a ten-bedroom share house as one of twelve tenants. Rent for my small bedroom was AU$45/week, and my contribution to the house's shared bills was another $15. I was spending $20/week on groceries and using my pushbike for transport, leaving me with $20/week for savings and entertainment.
Living on $100/week was a choice I made because I wanted to, not something imposed on me by circumstance. The availability of universal free-at-point-of-use health care made this lifestyle safe, and driving four or five twelve-hour night shifts per month in a taxi fully funded it.
It fucking breaks my heart that none of my kids will ever get the opportunity to experience the sheer unbridled luxury of having that much time to do whatever the fuck they want.
posted by flabdablet at 11:19 AM on May 29 [11 favorites]
Living on $100/week was a choice I made because I wanted to, not something imposed on me by circumstance. The availability of universal free-at-point-of-use health care made this lifestyle safe, and driving four or five twelve-hour night shifts per month in a taxi fully funded it.
It fucking breaks my heart that none of my kids will ever get the opportunity to experience the sheer unbridled luxury of having that much time to do whatever the fuck they want.
posted by flabdablet at 11:19 AM on May 29 [11 favorites]
When I was a kid, you could work part time as a pizza delivery driver and pay for an apartment
Yeah, I sort of did this in college in 1996, but I couldn't even come close to paying for any of my college expenses, and my apartment was in a converted motel with the old swimming pool filled in with dirt that was $330 a month, plus utilities. You can still live like that, but nobody would consider it a good or comfortable life. That's what gets me about comparisons with the older days: that life was worse in almost every measurable way, and you can still live like that (even if it's still cheap but not quite as cheap) if you wanted to, but most people don't actually want to.
fun fact: The average US city was also more dense then, decreasing until about 2002, and now slightly rising again, and food costs also fell throughout the 1990s as an average percent of budgets, going from 11% in the 1970s to 9% through 2020 to 11% now.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:01 PM on May 29
Yeah, I sort of did this in college in 1996, but I couldn't even come close to paying for any of my college expenses, and my apartment was in a converted motel with the old swimming pool filled in with dirt that was $330 a month, plus utilities. You can still live like that, but nobody would consider it a good or comfortable life. That's what gets me about comparisons with the older days: that life was worse in almost every measurable way, and you can still live like that (even if it's still cheap but not quite as cheap) if you wanted to, but most people don't actually want to.
fun fact: The average US city was also more dense then, decreasing until about 2002, and now slightly rising again, and food costs also fell throughout the 1990s as an average percent of budgets, going from 11% in the 1970s to 9% through 2020 to 11% now.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:01 PM on May 29
I found the 'Which Decade Would You Most Want To Live In' graph grouping interesting - Republicans, men and White people mostly all want to live in the 1970s, but people older than 65 all mostly want to live in the 1960s.
posted by Rash at 12:06 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
posted by Rash at 12:06 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
Interesting to note that the graphs by cohort show the effect declining over time in many categories: the peak for people born in the 40s is very sharp, but the peak for those born in the 90s is pretty weak and in a couple categories (fashion most obviously) the 90s cohort never peaked but is still trending up.
Two things come to mind for that: one, the range of communication technologies available today mean that younger generations are exposed to a broader range of stuff.
Two, it seems like the 1930s are the earliest available option, meaning that older generations couldn't spread out backwards in time even if they wanted to? So that encourages more of a peak. I do think there was something of a discontinuity in popular culture around the world wars (the shift from jazz to rock as the dominant popular music, most obviously), which combined with the maturation of recording quality to mean that the older generations are probably genuinely less likely to look backwards from their own youth then more recent generations. But it's not clear whether the underlying data captured that well, or if it's more a presentation choice to cut off at 1930s.
Also worth noting: even older generations think that movies before the 1970s were not as good. The blockbuster era has a powerful hold.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 12:33 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
Two things come to mind for that: one, the range of communication technologies available today mean that younger generations are exposed to a broader range of stuff.
Two, it seems like the 1930s are the earliest available option, meaning that older generations couldn't spread out backwards in time even if they wanted to? So that encourages more of a peak. I do think there was something of a discontinuity in popular culture around the world wars (the shift from jazz to rock as the dominant popular music, most obviously), which combined with the maturation of recording quality to mean that the older generations are probably genuinely less likely to look backwards from their own youth then more recent generations. But it's not clear whether the underlying data captured that well, or if it's more a presentation choice to cut off at 1930s.
Also worth noting: even older generations think that movies before the 1970s were not as good. The blockbuster era has a powerful hold.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 12:33 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
I never Ever EVER thought I’d miss the 80s and yet here we are.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:34 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 12:34 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
The day before Antonin Scalia died, then all hell broke loose.
The day he died was actually the peak moment in time for me. I was on a dumpling crawl in the San Gabriel Valley and my friends and I came home to the news. Many photos of ecstatic friends hugging, not a single though of Mitch. McConnell troubling our minds . . .
posted by kensington314 at 1:08 PM on May 29 [2 favorites]
The day he died was actually the peak moment in time for me. I was on a dumpling crawl in the San Gabriel Valley and my friends and I came home to the news. Many photos of ecstatic friends hugging, not a single though of Mitch. McConnell troubling our minds . . .
posted by kensington314 at 1:08 PM on May 29 [2 favorites]
When I was young, I had optimism and hope and a body that didn't hurt. I was pretty oblivious to how deeply ugly the world was. Oh, I read history, but naïvely believed that things had changed/could change, and most people were good and education would solve our problems. Fortunately, I won't be around to see the brave new world my grandkids are inheriting.
posted by BlueHorse at 1:32 PM on May 29 [2 favorites]
posted by BlueHorse at 1:32 PM on May 29 [2 favorites]
Puberty. It's puberty. I think back and I remember saying to my friends a while ago: I think the best year of my life, my peak, was 10.
I had not fully attended the public school (a private sheltered and ignorant christian school with well meaning people and only one abusive/mentally ill teacher, the rest were "great" (if you didn't mind being told that LSD meant Lust Sin Death or Lucifer Satan Devil) and evolution isn't real, but hey I was in 2nd grade and already knew cursive, but had to stop writing it at the public school cuz kids couldn't read it yet.
Alas, I though "facts" were all one needed, and didn't understand the point of some science (and it took far too long for me to understand how it works, of course).
But ultimately it's 5th grade, when I went to the public school and my nemesis from church arrived half way through and my life was never the same. The same jock asshole who intentionally threw the ball as hard as he could towards my face when I was 10 at church was now at my school (from a private Catholic school, of course) and I never fit in with the cool kids and was such a tryhard til I learned to stop, and then I was a "hippie" who deserved to be beat up (fuck you I'm a punk!) I said.
I still have violent revenge fantasies. He made me who I am and for that I'm grateful. Fuck him and his Trump MAGA bully types. Up with my queer punk friends, even if we were politically confused.
I didn't have a perfect life, but I didn't have the same hell life a lot had, and I was out of home before I discovered my own queerness (even if I KNEW I was queer in someway, crossdressing isn't wrong it's just wanting dick that was wrong I guess I thought). Then I thought mmm dick.
But anyways. 10. On a personal level. I never would say it was the best nationally or actually cuz 1986/1987 while it had some banging hits, was kinda shit otherwise.
In terms of peak post-puberty I think the 90s were probably the "best" but that was still because I was an ignorant libertarian who thought we could work with socialists against "Corporate Welfare" and weed and gay rights abortion immigration, but... understood so little and now I see (most) self-labeling "libertarians"/Freedom Lovers are closet fascists, but at least even the LP booed Trump so I gotta give em a little credit there. They didn't succumb to the horrible shit. Speaking of. All these Never Trumpers pretending like they weren't feeding the beast with their Iraq War and racist bullshit (no matter how many times Bush said "no no , don't kill the Muslims here, just over there") there was a million little wanna be Toby Keiths, who could have EVER seen Trump coming? (gag).
Anyways, uh. I think 90s was great cuz I had a lot of MDMA and Acid was super freely available, the good shit they made in the nuclear silo and the MDMA was spread by Sammy the Bull Gravino, so they were scum but at least the drugs were legit.
Now all I can get is shitty Delta-8 in this fucking state, and who knows what chemicals you can trust anymore.
I grew as a person at least, since then, cuz man did I (as so many of us dudes back then) have toxic attitudes from the patriarchy (and still do and have to work to keep it in check, as we should always be mindful) so growth after 10 makes life both better as a person but also suck cuz that bubble has popped.
Pre-Glass Steagal? Maybe. anything after Bush is just right out.
posted by symbioid at 2:01 PM on May 29
I had not fully attended the public school (a private sheltered and ignorant christian school with well meaning people and only one abusive/mentally ill teacher, the rest were "great" (if you didn't mind being told that LSD meant Lust Sin Death or Lucifer Satan Devil) and evolution isn't real, but hey I was in 2nd grade and already knew cursive, but had to stop writing it at the public school cuz kids couldn't read it yet.
Alas, I though "facts" were all one needed, and didn't understand the point of some science (and it took far too long for me to understand how it works, of course).
But ultimately it's 5th grade, when I went to the public school and my nemesis from church arrived half way through and my life was never the same. The same jock asshole who intentionally threw the ball as hard as he could towards my face when I was 10 at church was now at my school (from a private Catholic school, of course) and I never fit in with the cool kids and was such a tryhard til I learned to stop, and then I was a "hippie" who deserved to be beat up (fuck you I'm a punk!) I said.
I still have violent revenge fantasies. He made me who I am and for that I'm grateful. Fuck him and his Trump MAGA bully types. Up with my queer punk friends, even if we were politically confused.
I didn't have a perfect life, but I didn't have the same hell life a lot had, and I was out of home before I discovered my own queerness (even if I KNEW I was queer in someway, crossdressing isn't wrong it's just wanting dick that was wrong I guess I thought). Then I thought mmm dick.
But anyways. 10. On a personal level. I never would say it was the best nationally or actually cuz 1986/1987 while it had some banging hits, was kinda shit otherwise.
In terms of peak post-puberty I think the 90s were probably the "best" but that was still because I was an ignorant libertarian who thought we could work with socialists against "Corporate Welfare" and weed and gay rights abortion immigration, but... understood so little and now I see (most) self-labeling "libertarians"/Freedom Lovers are closet fascists, but at least even the LP booed Trump so I gotta give em a little credit there. They didn't succumb to the horrible shit. Speaking of. All these Never Trumpers pretending like they weren't feeding the beast with their Iraq War and racist bullshit (no matter how many times Bush said "no no , don't kill the Muslims here, just over there") there was a million little wanna be Toby Keiths, who could have EVER seen Trump coming? (gag).
Anyways, uh. I think 90s was great cuz I had a lot of MDMA and Acid was super freely available, the good shit they made in the nuclear silo and the MDMA was spread by Sammy the Bull Gravino, so they were scum but at least the drugs were legit.
Now all I can get is shitty Delta-8 in this fucking state, and who knows what chemicals you can trust anymore.
I grew as a person at least, since then, cuz man did I (as so many of us dudes back then) have toxic attitudes from the patriarchy (and still do and have to work to keep it in check, as we should always be mindful) so growth after 10 makes life both better as a person but also suck cuz that bubble has popped.
Pre-Glass Steagal? Maybe. anything after Bush is just right out.
posted by symbioid at 2:01 PM on May 29
(well I mean there's good things gay rights, more acceptance of Trans people (even if we are still fighting both battles and hard with very powerful opponents the same bigots) we have made some small progress it's just never assured. Probably the hardest lesson - school tricks us into thinking history is a Fait Accompli... Not an eternal struggle.
posted by symbioid at 2:02 PM on May 29
posted by symbioid at 2:02 PM on May 29
Also worth noting: even older generations think that movies before the 1970s were not as good. The blockbuster era has a powerful hold.
Clearly, Generations are half-wits. Films after the 70s were good, too. Every year produces a few gems and a lot of garbage, and what is most popular rarely has staying power. That’s the nature of popularity.
For me, the 90s were my best decade. Not my most comfortable, but the one where I was most “me.” It was a wonderful, awful time. On the other hand, I’d take current medical developments any day. In the 90s, I’d probably be dead.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:41 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
Clearly, Generations are half-wits. Films after the 70s were good, too. Every year produces a few gems and a lot of garbage, and what is most popular rarely has staying power. That’s the nature of popularity.
For me, the 90s were my best decade. Not my most comfortable, but the one where I was most “me.” It was a wonderful, awful time. On the other hand, I’d take current medical developments any day. In the 90s, I’d probably be dead.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:41 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
Nobody's actually nostalgic for carob cookies or Jell-O molds or Oh Henry!
I like Oh Henry! bars. I like the peanut butter especially. Anyway, TIL that Oh Henry! bars are no longer sold in the U.S. ....or are they? According to Wikipedia they're being marketed as "Rally" bars now, so anyone nostalgic can still get them.
The best popular music was in the 80s.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:31 PM on May 29
I like Oh Henry! bars. I like the peanut butter especially. Anyway, TIL that Oh Henry! bars are no longer sold in the U.S. ....or are they? According to Wikipedia they're being marketed as "Rally" bars now, so anyone nostalgic can still get them.
The best popular music was in the 80s.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 3:31 PM on May 29
Confirmed: Best Zelda Game Objectively Whichever One Came Out When You Were 13
My favorite is Wind Waker, and I played it in grad school. The other way this is like those top 100 lists that Frowner mentions is that any and everyone wants to argue with it.
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:09 PM on May 29
My favorite is Wind Waker, and I played it in grad school. The other way this is like those top 100 lists that Frowner mentions is that any and everyone wants to argue with it.
posted by SaltySalticid at 4:09 PM on May 29
my apartment was in a converted motel with the old swimming pool filled in with dirt that was $330 a month, plus utilities. You can still live like that, but nobody would consider it a good or comfortable life.
Where can you still get this? I am a mentor to a teen right now who would love to live somewhere shitty that cheap, but instead she’s looking at 70 hour work weeks just to afford a place solo.
posted by corb at 4:27 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
Where can you still get this? I am a mentor to a teen right now who would love to live somewhere shitty that cheap, but instead she’s looking at 70 hour work weeks just to afford a place solo.
posted by corb at 4:27 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
I was wondering that myself, corb! Finding even the shittiest apartment in my rinky dink town is going to cost you 2-3x what that converted hotel room cost. $330 a . month, you're going to find an apartment like that, and share it with a roommate, and just be glad you're within walking distance to a bus stop.
A lot of that can be placed on the shoulders of new construction. The old small apartments are being knocked down, and in their place are poorly insulated and heavily windowed modern apartment buildings, with prices comparable to the nearest metropolis.
posted by Rudy_Wiser at 6:10 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
A lot of that can be placed on the shoulders of new construction. The old small apartments are being knocked down, and in their place are poorly insulated and heavily windowed modern apartment buildings, with prices comparable to the nearest metropolis.
posted by Rudy_Wiser at 6:10 PM on May 29 [1 favorite]
> Films after the 70s were good, too.
Yeah, that's reflected in the data, it's 70s+ that rank highly for best movies. Really 80s+, but there's a big dropoff going from the 70s to the 60s that isn't there for 80s to 70s. Every chohort born before the 80s ranked the 80s as the best decade for movies, it just varies on how pronounced that peak is. That sort of agreement doesn't appear in any of the other cohort charts.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 8:14 PM on May 29
Yeah, that's reflected in the data, it's 70s+ that rank highly for best movies. Really 80s+, but there's a big dropoff going from the 70s to the 60s that isn't there for 80s to 70s. Every chohort born before the 80s ranked the 80s as the best decade for movies, it just varies on how pronounced that peak is. That sort of agreement doesn't appear in any of the other cohort charts.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 8:14 PM on May 29
Oh dear lord no.
posted by Toddles at 8:59 PM on May 29 [2 favorites]
posted by Toddles at 8:59 PM on May 29 [2 favorites]
I personally take great umbrage at being coinsidered self-centered, and judge myself shallow only in the most superficial sense.
posted by Chitownfats at 3:23 AM on May 30 [1 favorite]
posted by Chitownfats at 3:23 AM on May 30 [1 favorite]
IMHO, it is impossible to look at this objectively. It is like looking at your eye with your eye. There is really no Archimedean point from which to observe our state of being then or now. It seems to me that our conscious subjectivity colors the past and present.
posted by DJZouke at 5:15 AM on May 30
posted by DJZouke at 5:15 AM on May 30
Objectively it's that tiny slice of galactic time when meat covered skeletons log into Metafilter to opine. Do their thoughts matter? Only to themselves.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:23 AM on May 30 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:23 AM on May 30 [1 favorite]
Also these graphs represent abstract statistical sampling and not individual experience. These graphs do not depict anything actual. Two people born on the same date might have very different opinions of what was the golden age of TV or music.
posted by DJZouke at 5:23 AM on May 30 [1 favorite]
posted by DJZouke at 5:23 AM on May 30 [1 favorite]
In a weird way I would want to go back to the 80's not because it was a golden time, but because that was when I started to understand how things were falling apart (see that 12 yr old bump in cognition). As an adult and someone who has run short of fucks, maybe this time I could do something. Not enough probably, but something. (The 90's are a fog of depression and grief for me for entirely personal reasons, hence the jump earlier.)
posted by Karmakaze at 5:42 AM on May 30
posted by Karmakaze at 5:42 AM on May 30
I was wondering that myself, corb! Finding even the shittiest apartment in my rinky dink town is going to cost you 2-3x what that converted hotel room cost. $330 a . month, you're going to find an apartment like that, and share it with a roommate, and just be glad you're within walking distance to a bus stop.
That was 30 years ago, and cost 70 hours of work at minimum wage without the utilities. And was in an economically depressed midwestern town and I had a roommate - I didn't live by myself.
And on the low end, apartments like that are still exist in all but the top few cities in the US that have built the least since then. And you're not going to find them on apartments.com - you have to put in the work and talk to people.
Confirmed: Best Zelda Game Objectively Whichever One Came Out When You Were 13
The one I had when I was 13 was Zelda II, which I consider an objectively bad game, though Nintendo was pretty close to releasing the first SNES Zelda, which was awesome.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:50 AM on May 30
That was 30 years ago, and cost 70 hours of work at minimum wage without the utilities. And was in an economically depressed midwestern town and I had a roommate - I didn't live by myself.
And on the low end, apartments like that are still exist in all but the top few cities in the US that have built the least since then. And you're not going to find them on apartments.com - you have to put in the work and talk to people.
Confirmed: Best Zelda Game Objectively Whichever One Came Out When You Were 13
The one I had when I was 13 was Zelda II, which I consider an objectively bad game, though Nintendo was pretty close to releasing the first SNES Zelda, which was awesome.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:50 AM on May 30
Yeah, I sort of did this in college in 1996, but I couldn't even come close to paying for any of my college expenses, and my apartment was in a converted motel with the old swimming pool filled in with dirt that was $330 a month, plus utilities. You can still live like that, but nobody would consider it a good or comfortable life.
Counterpoint: $900/month for one side of the bed. Even taking into account the exchange rate, I think it makes your motel room for $300/month sound good.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:26 AM on May 31 [2 favorites]
Counterpoint: $900/month for one side of the bed. Even taking into account the exchange rate, I think it makes your motel room for $300/month sound good.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:26 AM on May 31 [2 favorites]
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