The 101st most successful music act of all time
June 3, 2024 12:14 AM Subscribe
Since then, the myth of Nickelback's awfulness has only grown through gifs, worst-of polls, clickbait articles, comedian punchlines, and YouTube mashups. But why is Nickelback the internet's punching bag of choice, and what seeded this collective animosity? Is there a quantifiable explanation for all of this Nickelback hatred? from Why Do People Hate Nickelback So Much? A Statistical Analysis [Stat Significant]
comedian Brian Posehn joked: "No one talks about the studies which show that bad music makes people violent. Like, Nickelback makes me wanna kill Nickelback."
This wisecrack was not particularly memorable, but Comedy Central included the joke in a long-running advertisement for Tough Crowd. And this promo ran a lot
posted by HearHere at 2:26 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
This wisecrack was not particularly memorable, but Comedy Central included the joke in a long-running advertisement for Tough Crowd. And this promo ran a lot
posted by HearHere at 2:26 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
Also see Todd in the shadows recent video on nickelback
posted by The River Ivel at 3:35 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
posted by The River Ivel at 3:35 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
This is why people hate Nickelback.
It's really not that complicated. They're about as imaginative as stale paste, and I don't like eating paste, either.
Nicklelback is rock music for people who actually seem to hate rock and music the way that Starbuck's is coffee for people who don't actually like coffee.
posted by loquacious at 3:36 AM on June 3 [8 favorites]
It's really not that complicated. They're about as imaginative as stale paste, and I don't like eating paste, either.
Nicklelback is rock music for people who actually seem to hate rock and music the way that Starbuck's is coffee for people who don't actually like coffee.
posted by loquacious at 3:36 AM on June 3 [8 favorites]
Pantera’s Dimebag Darrell was an early supporter and friend of the band. That’s a seal of approval that carries some weight.
posted by dr_dank at 3:39 AM on June 3 [1 favorite]
posted by dr_dank at 3:39 AM on June 3 [1 favorite]
The music is whatever, I hate them for the misogyny.
posted by nanny's striped stocking at 3:59 AM on June 3 [11 favorites]
posted by nanny's striped stocking at 3:59 AM on June 3 [11 favorites]
I think they're fine. Pretty commercial but I find them very hard to take offence to. And any lack of variability across their music is as nothing compared to the repetition in Status Quo, and I don't hate them either.
posted by plonkee at 4:46 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
posted by plonkee at 4:46 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
There's a market for Wonder Bread, too.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:00 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:00 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
I don't know. See also: Wil Wheaton and Barney the Dinosaur.
*raises hand, walks to podium*
Firstly, I actually think you mean Wesley Crusher, not Wil Wheaton. And nowadays in hindsight I think we can answer the "why" in both those cases.
1. Wesley Crusher was often not very well written as a character. Even Wil Wheaton has said so in more recent years; the idea of a Boy Genius was a sort of aspirational character Gene Roddenberry thought up, and many of the writers for TNG didn't like the idea and gave the poor kid some really crappy dialogue, largely because they didn't want to be writing for a a character who was practically just a Teenage Marty Stu for Gene Roddenberry.
(Wil Wheaton himself has become pretty damn beloved in recent years, happily, thanks to some candor about his own past, sharing some of his own mental health struggles - including having been forced into being a child actor in the first place - and his own objectivity about what it was like to be Wesley Crusher; he admits and agrees that the character as written kinda stunk, but also is candid about "y'know, all y'all, I was hearing the shit you were saying about me online at the time, and while I get it now, I was only like 14 then, and what do you think that did to me?")
2. Barney the Dinosaur was also a poorly-written show; it was the kind of "educational" Kids' TV that Teaches The Kiddies with all the subtlety and nuance of a sledgehammer. Do you remember the Simpsons episode where Marge engages in this campaign against cartoon violence, and helps to create this seriously insipid episode of Itchy and Scratchy? The tone of that Itchy and Scratchy was the tone Barney had all the time. My mother was a preschool teacher, and had a fairly tolerant opinion of most kids' TV (she actually borrowed a tactic from Blue's Clues to tell the kids when she was going to be retiring); but Barney is the only show I've ever heard her flat-out say she hated, and that's why.
A lot of times, people may not be able to articulate why they dislike something, but there's usually a reason, and "bad writing" is often that reason.
I can't speak to whether this is also the case with Nickelback; literally the only thing I've heard by them is a Vine spoofing one of their videos. I keep getting them confused with Nickel Creek, who are very, very different and actually are quite good, methinks.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:04 AM on June 3 [18 favorites]
*raises hand, walks to podium*
Firstly, I actually think you mean Wesley Crusher, not Wil Wheaton. And nowadays in hindsight I think we can answer the "why" in both those cases.
1. Wesley Crusher was often not very well written as a character. Even Wil Wheaton has said so in more recent years; the idea of a Boy Genius was a sort of aspirational character Gene Roddenberry thought up, and many of the writers for TNG didn't like the idea and gave the poor kid some really crappy dialogue, largely because they didn't want to be writing for a a character who was practically just a Teenage Marty Stu for Gene Roddenberry.
(Wil Wheaton himself has become pretty damn beloved in recent years, happily, thanks to some candor about his own past, sharing some of his own mental health struggles - including having been forced into being a child actor in the first place - and his own objectivity about what it was like to be Wesley Crusher; he admits and agrees that the character as written kinda stunk, but also is candid about "y'know, all y'all, I was hearing the shit you were saying about me online at the time, and while I get it now, I was only like 14 then, and what do you think that did to me?")
2. Barney the Dinosaur was also a poorly-written show; it was the kind of "educational" Kids' TV that Teaches The Kiddies with all the subtlety and nuance of a sledgehammer. Do you remember the Simpsons episode where Marge engages in this campaign against cartoon violence, and helps to create this seriously insipid episode of Itchy and Scratchy? The tone of that Itchy and Scratchy was the tone Barney had all the time. My mother was a preschool teacher, and had a fairly tolerant opinion of most kids' TV (she actually borrowed a tactic from Blue's Clues to tell the kids when she was going to be retiring); but Barney is the only show I've ever heard her flat-out say she hated, and that's why.
A lot of times, people may not be able to articulate why they dislike something, but there's usually a reason, and "bad writing" is often that reason.
I can't speak to whether this is also the case with Nickelback; literally the only thing I've heard by them is a Vine spoofing one of their videos. I keep getting them confused with Nickel Creek, who are very, very different and actually are quite good, methinks.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:04 AM on June 3 [18 favorites]
I'm too lazy to look it up, but when Chad Kroeger and Avril Lavigne got married and expressed a desire to have children someone funny speculated that eventually the children would rebel by making good music.
posted by Depressed Obese Nightmare Man at 5:12 AM on June 3 [17 favorites]
posted by Depressed Obese Nightmare Man at 5:12 AM on June 3 [17 favorites]
Some people who have trained themselves to have their emotional catharsis through sophisticated art get annoyed at untrained people having an emotional catharsis through unsophisticated art.
posted by jscalzi at 5:19 AM on June 3 [30 favorites]
posted by jscalzi at 5:19 AM on June 3 [30 favorites]
These Misogynistic Nickelback Lyrics Will Make You Lose Faith in Music
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:47 AM on June 3 [14 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:47 AM on June 3 [14 favorites]
These Misogynistic Nickelback Lyrics Will Make You Lose Faith in Music
Whelp, I thought of them as inoffensive, boring, and overly sincere until I read those lyrics.
Fuck those guys.
posted by papercake at 6:03 AM on June 3 [9 favorites]
Whelp, I thought of them as inoffensive, boring, and overly sincere until I read those lyrics.
Fuck those guys.
posted by papercake at 6:03 AM on June 3 [9 favorites]
we find a strong correlation between Nickelback interest and Republican voter marginThese Misogynistic Nickelback Lyrics Will Make You Lose Faith in Music
QED
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 6:06 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
Maybe it's time to stop being puzzled about the hate for this band.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:08 AM on June 3 [4 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:08 AM on June 3 [4 favorites]
It does not help that Nickelback was massively overplayed on the radio. My reaction time on changing the station in my car was somewhere around the word "at" in the opening line of "Look at this photograph".
posted by Mister Fabulous at 6:15 AM on June 3 [7 favorites]
posted by Mister Fabulous at 6:15 AM on June 3 [7 favorites]
“Because they suck, duh” is not a sufficient explanation because LOTS OF BANDS SUCK. Lots of very popular bands, even. But most sucky bands do not become a decades-long meme embodiment of the very concept of sucking. I can’t understand why people are snarkily dismissing this question.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:20 AM on June 3 [8 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:20 AM on June 3 [8 favorites]
I have a stupid and personal reason for loathing Nickelback, and it actually doesn't involve their misogyny or repetitiveness.
For many years, I had more of a lingering disdain for them than anything else; the music industry requires that a Top 40 exists, and that 95% of it at any given time is almost assuredly massively derivative, massively overplayed crap, tuned to appeal specifically to a core audience and to test the durability of the human ear for everyone else. I viewed them less as Nickelback the Band than as Corporate Musical Entity #4F97EE, the latest product to emerge from laboratory testing and possibly the Platonic ideal of corporate-honed generic 'rock music.'
But back when salaried white-collar positions still existed, my company at the time decided to sponsor a company picnic at a local, highly popular amusement park. Unlike some of their other efforts in those areas, this was "just show up and have fun and enjoy your free ticket," so my wife and I went and enjoyed the roller coasters and a nice day out.
BUT.
There is a stadium attached to the park, and they do concerts there, and on this particular night the band was Nickelback. This meant that if you were in certain parts of the park, you had a lingering Nickelback auditory presence in the background at all times that evening, which would've been bad enough. Due to bad planning on someone's part, the concert ended at precisely the same time that the park closed for the evening.
This meant that what should've been a five-minute process of exiting the complex turned into an hour and a half of absolute gridlock, as cars jockeyed for position for the exits from every direction. I legitimately worried that I was going to run out of gas, as my car was low and I had been planning to stop on my way home. I inched forward, one tiny increment at a time, hoping that the fumes from my ears would find their way into the gas tank and become useful.
Finally, I got out to the highway and made a beeline for the nearest gas station, where there was also a wait. And when I got to the pump, I found myself surrounded by Happy Nickelback Fans in their Happy Nickelback Concert T-Shirts, discussing amongst themselves the Awesome Nickelback Live Show they'd all just attended.
I stared hard at them, then at my wife, who shook her head negatively at me. A vivid mental image filled my mind's eye, involving the Happy Anti-Nickelback Tire Iron in my trunk that was aching to be summoned into action.
It remained unused that night. But in my dreams, on many a night since... ahhhh.
posted by delfin at 6:30 AM on June 3 [14 favorites]
For many years, I had more of a lingering disdain for them than anything else; the music industry requires that a Top 40 exists, and that 95% of it at any given time is almost assuredly massively derivative, massively overplayed crap, tuned to appeal specifically to a core audience and to test the durability of the human ear for everyone else. I viewed them less as Nickelback the Band than as Corporate Musical Entity #4F97EE, the latest product to emerge from laboratory testing and possibly the Platonic ideal of corporate-honed generic 'rock music.'
But back when salaried white-collar positions still existed, my company at the time decided to sponsor a company picnic at a local, highly popular amusement park. Unlike some of their other efforts in those areas, this was "just show up and have fun and enjoy your free ticket," so my wife and I went and enjoyed the roller coasters and a nice day out.
BUT.
There is a stadium attached to the park, and they do concerts there, and on this particular night the band was Nickelback. This meant that if you were in certain parts of the park, you had a lingering Nickelback auditory presence in the background at all times that evening, which would've been bad enough. Due to bad planning on someone's part, the concert ended at precisely the same time that the park closed for the evening.
This meant that what should've been a five-minute process of exiting the complex turned into an hour and a half of absolute gridlock, as cars jockeyed for position for the exits from every direction. I legitimately worried that I was going to run out of gas, as my car was low and I had been planning to stop on my way home. I inched forward, one tiny increment at a time, hoping that the fumes from my ears would find their way into the gas tank and become useful.
Finally, I got out to the highway and made a beeline for the nearest gas station, where there was also a wait. And when I got to the pump, I found myself surrounded by Happy Nickelback Fans in their Happy Nickelback Concert T-Shirts, discussing amongst themselves the Awesome Nickelback Live Show they'd all just attended.
I stared hard at them, then at my wife, who shook her head negatively at me. A vivid mental image filled my mind's eye, involving the Happy Anti-Nickelback Tire Iron in my trunk that was aching to be summoned into action.
It remained unused that night. But in my dreams, on many a night since... ahhhh.
posted by delfin at 6:30 AM on June 3 [14 favorites]
Their music is unpleasant to listen to, and they spent a while being overplayed. I think that is sufficient. I don't think it has much to do with them being unsophisticated. There are plenty of bands that just make good, fun music I enjoy.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:51 AM on June 3 [1 favorite]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:51 AM on June 3 [1 favorite]
Can people saying "they're bad and overplayed, duh" actually read the article, because it addresses both those points... what's really interesting is how they chose to quantify "overplayed" and "repetitive" and then compare Nickelback to other commercially successful bands to see how much MORE overplayed and repetitive they are... I'm left wondering why there's no meme about how much we all hate Fleetwood Mac.
posted by subdee at 7:06 AM on June 3 [5 favorites]
posted by subdee at 7:06 AM on June 3 [5 favorites]
Because Fleetwood Mac isn't bad?
posted by delfin at 7:07 AM on June 3 [10 favorites]
posted by delfin at 7:07 AM on June 3 [10 favorites]
Because Fleetwood Mac isn't bad?
True and yet, I hold the following two conflicting ideas in my head at the same time constantly: Dreams is an amazing song AND also I will change the station within 3 seconds of it starting.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:25 AM on June 3 [8 favorites]
True and yet, I hold the following two conflicting ideas in my head at the same time constantly: Dreams is an amazing song AND also I will change the station within 3 seconds of it starting.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:25 AM on June 3 [8 favorites]
I think Nickleback was endemic of the music industry at the time giving up on trying to make bands seem cool and authentic (even if they weren't). The post-grunge wave of every single band having to be cool and disaffected if they were playing 3-chord rock anthems. And then the transition bands like Creed who looked corporate but still sounded vaguely like Pearl Jam. But Nickleback put radio friendly guitar rock squarely back in the realm of "music for dads who live in the suburbs."
posted by thecjm at 7:33 AM on June 3 [5 favorites]
posted by thecjm at 7:33 AM on June 3 [5 favorites]
Let me elaborate further on that. Whatever the algorithm is that declared that Fleetwood Mac has little variability is... well, I'd love to see the code, and ask if they actually included Tusk and Hypnotized and Big Love and Oh Well and Albatross and the Green Manalishi in the computations, or if they just went by AOR-station airplay and fed Rumours into it and called it a day.
Fleetwood Mac had several different incarnations with distinct sounds. They had multiple songwriters and singers putting individual stamps on their output. They had NINE ALBUMS out before Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks even joined the band and steered it in a more mainstream-friendly direction. And when they had their huge breakthrough album and enjoyed massive success, did they immediately begin work on a follow-up that sounded exactly the same and would enjoy similar success? No, they didn't -- they brought in the USC marching brass band and an accordion and wedged in Chilean profanity and Mick Fleetwood smacking a leg of lamb with a spatula to get just the right percussion sound.
They evolved. They stretched their boundaries. They took chances, not all of which worked out. Whereas, from my outsider's perspective, Nickelback determined what worked and... well... just made a lot of that. And unlike AC/DC, another band often touted as having made the same song 157 times, they didn't sound like they were having a whole lot of fun doing it.
posted by delfin at 7:33 AM on June 3 [11 favorites]
Fleetwood Mac had several different incarnations with distinct sounds. They had multiple songwriters and singers putting individual stamps on their output. They had NINE ALBUMS out before Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks even joined the band and steered it in a more mainstream-friendly direction. And when they had their huge breakthrough album and enjoyed massive success, did they immediately begin work on a follow-up that sounded exactly the same and would enjoy similar success? No, they didn't -- they brought in the USC marching brass band and an accordion and wedged in Chilean profanity and Mick Fleetwood smacking a leg of lamb with a spatula to get just the right percussion sound.
They evolved. They stretched their boundaries. They took chances, not all of which worked out. Whereas, from my outsider's perspective, Nickelback determined what worked and... well... just made a lot of that. And unlike AC/DC, another band often touted as having made the same song 157 times, they didn't sound like they were having a whole lot of fun doing it.
posted by delfin at 7:33 AM on June 3 [11 favorites]
Previously: Nickelback won the 90s culture war
posted by Apocryphon at 7:37 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 7:37 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
the way that Starbuck's is coffee for people who don't actually like coffee.
I question this analogy. Starbuck's basic drip coffee isn't really that bad. I'd rate it a step up on what was generally available before Starbuck's showed up (in my region anyway). Tim Horton's on the other hand, that's profoundly average and ubiquitous swill ... and Canadian to boot. It is absolutely the Nickelback of coffee, or as we used to say back in the day, the Bryan Adams of coffee. You're not a bad person for liking it but I do get to not take you seriously when it comes to things amplified and musically rocking (he said, confusing his analogy).
posted by philip-random at 7:37 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
I question this analogy. Starbuck's basic drip coffee isn't really that bad. I'd rate it a step up on what was generally available before Starbuck's showed up (in my region anyway). Tim Horton's on the other hand, that's profoundly average and ubiquitous swill ... and Canadian to boot. It is absolutely the Nickelback of coffee, or as we used to say back in the day, the Bryan Adams of coffee. You're not a bad person for liking it but I do get to not take you seriously when it comes to things amplified and musically rocking (he said, confusing his analogy).
posted by philip-random at 7:37 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
I'm left wondering why there's no meme about how much we all hate Fleetwood Mac.
Timing, to some degree? If you were mid-to-younger Gen X, you definitely had a sense of them as one of those Tedious Self-Involved 70s Bands That Belonged on Oldies Stations Only (*). There were a lot of these types hanging around cluttering up young people radio in the early to mid 80s before finally going off into that great cocaine sunset. If we'd had memes in the same form back then...
(*) I have lightly repented this position in later years, partially in awe of the sheer level of intraband drama.
posted by praemunire at 7:45 AM on June 3 [4 favorites]
Timing, to some degree? If you were mid-to-younger Gen X, you definitely had a sense of them as one of those Tedious Self-Involved 70s Bands That Belonged on Oldies Stations Only (*). There were a lot of these types hanging around cluttering up young people radio in the early to mid 80s before finally going off into that great cocaine sunset. If we'd had memes in the same form back then...
(*) I have lightly repented this position in later years, partially in awe of the sheer level of intraband drama.
posted by praemunire at 7:45 AM on June 3 [4 favorites]
It's a combination, I think, of the samey-sounding songs, the cringe-worthy lyrics, and Kroger's Constipated-Kurt-Cobain-Knockoff rasp. And then it's shoved down your throat in every public place for years.
Of course music is subjective -- I'm sure some of my favorite bands have some of those factors - but yeah.
posted by skullhead at 7:50 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
Of course music is subjective -- I'm sure some of my favorite bands have some of those factors - but yeah.
posted by skullhead at 7:50 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
The Misogyny article linked above is interesting. Yeah, they are probably misogynists taking the balance of how women are talked about in all of their songs, but "Animals" is explicitly about a teen boy having sex with his teen girlfriend, so saying that the girl is DTF and that that is sexist is a bit weird... repeat for other songs? It doesn't seem to me to make that strong of an argument, since it focuses on individual lyrics in songs that are about sex, instead of like, they don't actually have lyrics in which women are shown doing anything other than fucking (which afaik is basically true but I have to admit I only know the songs that were hits that I couldn't easily avoid).
Anyway I think somebody picked Nickelback to hate and it became a meme and now they can't escape it. It could just as easily have been one of any number of generic mediocre rock bands.
Sometimes things become part of the culture through a sort of feedback mechanism and not strictly on their merits.
posted by joannemerriam at 7:52 AM on June 3 [4 favorites]
Anyway I think somebody picked Nickelback to hate and it became a meme and now they can't escape it. It could just as easily have been one of any number of generic mediocre rock bands.
Sometimes things become part of the culture through a sort of feedback mechanism and not strictly on their merits.
posted by joannemerriam at 7:52 AM on June 3 [4 favorites]
This is why people hate Nickelback.
Any given Nickelback song sucks, but every Nickelback song at once is...kind of good actually?
Fuck their misogyny, though.
(Did you hear about the Forty-Five Cent Concert? It's 50 Cent and Nickelback.)
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:05 AM on June 3 [5 favorites]
Any given Nickelback song sucks, but every Nickelback song at once is...kind of good actually?
Fuck their misogyny, though.
(Did you hear about the Forty-Five Cent Concert? It's 50 Cent and Nickelback.)
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:05 AM on June 3 [5 favorites]
(Not sure how REM, a group whose big hits include 'Shiny Happy People' and 'Everybody Hurts,' are in the top ten for non-variability, but we've got a bigger problem now.)
posted by box at 8:19 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
posted by box at 8:19 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
About eight years ago, on the way across Canada I happened by accident upon this road sign and, in trying to get a smirkingly ironic picture of it, sunk three feet deep into the snow and got a soaker.
Now that I look back upon many examples of the consequences of recreational group hate, I am better equipped to absorb the meaning of the defensively supportive message behind the slogan on that sign. There are many middling bands, and many misogynist songs. Let's just leave them alone and focus the blazecock pileon energy at those who really deserve it.
posted by CynicalKnight at 8:24 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
Now that I look back upon many examples of the consequences of recreational group hate, I am better equipped to absorb the meaning of the defensively supportive message behind the slogan on that sign. There are many middling bands, and many misogynist songs. Let's just leave them alone and focus the blazecock pileon energy at those who really deserve it.
posted by CynicalKnight at 8:24 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
The best, most insightful description of this phenomenon I've seen was stuck in the middle of a 2014 video about the game developer Phil Fish.
To quote:
To quote:
Now, people don't hate Nickelback because they think the music is bad. People think loads of music is bad and don't give it any further thought. People hate Nickelback because the music is bad and popular.posted by Flaffigan at 8:27 AM on June 3 [21 favorites]
But it's more complicated than that.
It's because someone at a studio heard Nickelback and thought, "I can sell that." It's because the music was so aggressively overplayed on the radio, and aggressively advertised, as if a PR department were trying to sculpt a mediocre band into a sensation regardless of worthiness.
It's because, despite all the hate, Nickelback's fame proved that this was actually working, that millions were buying into it.
It's because Nickelback represented the apotheosis of an existing trend of shallow, whiny hard rock, which they made even more popular, and spawned legions of shallow, whiny imitators to continue the trend.
It's because every step of this process seemed to have been taken solely for the benefit of the people getting rich off the record sales.
"I hate Nickelback", as a sentence, voices a complex opinion on cultural trends in popular music, and aligns the speaker with those who hate not just Nickelback, but all that Nickelback represents. They resent Nickelback the concept.
Nickelback the actual band is of secondary importance.
The band's crime, other than the writing of the actual songs, is their complicity in this system. They signed the record deal. They deemed themselves worthy and deserving of this studio-constructed fame. In a phrase, they bought into it.
The ire felt for Nickelback the band is only somewhat harsher than the ire felt for the fans that buy the records.
They are just the first and last links in a chain of politics: studio politics, radio politics, and record politics, that are seemingly ruining music.
This entire chain comprises Nickelback the concept, and when people say "I hate Nickelback", this is the Nickelback they're referring to.
And when someone tweets "I hate Nickelback" at Nickelback, they aren't really talking to the band. They're talking publicly to culture about what Nickelback represents. The actual tweet to the actual band is just a shorthand.
Man that sign in Alberta expressing pride for being the birthplace of Nickelback really just salts the wound that is the Canadian Prairies, doesn't it. I gotta wonder if there's a similar sign in Edmonton for k d lang.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:31 AM on June 3 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:31 AM on June 3 [1 favorite]
Pantera’s Dimebag Darrell was an early supporter and friend of the band. That’s a seal of approval that carries some weight.
Heavy metal musicians themselves are much less likely to be heavy metal snobs.
Brian Posehn, on the other hand, is definitely a metal snob.
posted by jonp72 at 8:39 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
Heavy metal musicians themselves are much less likely to be heavy metal snobs.
Brian Posehn, on the other hand, is definitely a metal snob.
posted by jonp72 at 8:39 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
what's really interesting is how they chose to quantify "overplayed" and "repetitive" and then compare Nickelback to other commercially successful bands to see how much MORE overplayed and repetitive they are... I'm left wondering why there's no meme about how much we all hate Fleetwood Mac.
I would definitely question their metric for repetitiveness, because there are a lot of bands that are repetitive on purpose, but beloved by critics and the median music consumer precisely because of that. Think about the Ramones or AC/DC. AC/DC is definitely an interesting case, because they are deliberately repetitive on purpose (Angus Young: "I'm sick to death of people saying we've made 11 albums that sound exactly the same. In fact, we've made 12 albums that sound exactly the same."), but you can find hipsters and critics and normies who all love them. AC/DC is also a band that is rejected by metal snobs as mere "hard rock," but somehow they don't get as much hate as Nickelback for being repetitive "not true metal" hard rock.
posted by jonp72 at 8:45 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
I would definitely question their metric for repetitiveness, because there are a lot of bands that are repetitive on purpose, but beloved by critics and the median music consumer precisely because of that. Think about the Ramones or AC/DC. AC/DC is definitely an interesting case, because they are deliberately repetitive on purpose (Angus Young: "I'm sick to death of people saying we've made 11 albums that sound exactly the same. In fact, we've made 12 albums that sound exactly the same."), but you can find hipsters and critics and normies who all love them. AC/DC is also a band that is rejected by metal snobs as mere "hard rock," but somehow they don't get as much hate as Nickelback for being repetitive "not true metal" hard rock.
posted by jonp72 at 8:45 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
if AC/DC had only ever released "It's a Long Way to the Top" they'd be assured of their status
for me, Nickelback is proof that a sort of blah sound can be marketed and even though that is the whole point of most pop music, there's just a quality that I never liked at the time, then it became a meme, and here we are
as an Albertan I spend a lot of time not thinking about the band. I don't think about the band as much as possible, in fact
posted by elkevelvet at 8:55 AM on June 3 [5 favorites]
for me, Nickelback is proof that a sort of blah sound can be marketed and even though that is the whole point of most pop music, there's just a quality that I never liked at the time, then it became a meme, and here we are
as an Albertan I spend a lot of time not thinking about the band. I don't think about the band as much as possible, in fact
posted by elkevelvet at 8:55 AM on June 3 [5 favorites]
It feels like the last decade has been an ongoing examination of how the hostility aimed at various famous women in recent history was really extreme for their purported sins, and now there's some interest in doing it for everybody. But...you don't actually have to like anyone in pop culture. No one is obligated to think that Actually, Kim Kardashian is a Really Canny Businessperson Worthy of Admiration or Joan Rivers Was Groundbreaking So You Should Be Nice. It's just that the frothing hatred directed at women usually says something about how culture and society feels about women in general.
I don't really think that's true with Nickelback. They were (are??) very popular. I disliked them, but did not find them particularly memorable; they were just another shitty rock band. Actually, that might be the main thing. If you don't like that sound, then Nickelback became the meme-y stand-in for making jokes about all those Creed-Nickelback-[insert other bands I don't remember]. The aughts were just like that. Everybody spent all their time rhapsodizing over bacon, quoting Will Ferrell movies, and complaining about Nickelback.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:58 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
I don't really think that's true with Nickelback. They were (are??) very popular. I disliked them, but did not find them particularly memorable; they were just another shitty rock band. Actually, that might be the main thing. If you don't like that sound, then Nickelback became the meme-y stand-in for making jokes about all those Creed-Nickelback-[insert other bands I don't remember]. The aughts were just like that. Everybody spent all their time rhapsodizing over bacon, quoting Will Ferrell movies, and complaining about Nickelback.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:58 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
It's been quite a wild ride to watch the, eh, democratization of music taste* that has occured these last few decades. When I grew up (the Nineties), in my corner of the world (Sweden), there were musical genres that were strictly - strictly! - off limits if you wanted to present yourself as a person of refined taste. Then suddenly - probably due to file sharing - these cool/not cool divides were erased, fell apart. You could enjoy eurodance and prog rock without fear of being ridiculed back to the stone age. Hip gals and guys were seen with Supertramp albums under their arms. Fusion and jazz-funk were not just for ... well, whoever the hell listened to fusion and jazz-funk in the late Nineties, early Noughts. Musical students? New age became a valid form of expression. Country - a genre that was seriously out in the cold until alt country came along, I think - was embraced by all and sundry. Somewhere someone (I'm sure of it) said "well, actually, I've always been into Alien Sex Fiend". Linkin Park and Paramore seem to have had resurgences lately.
Is this democratization of music taste* a good thing? Well, sure, of course. Snobbery and elitism is bad for you, for your surroundings and for the world. When I let go of my preconceived notions of what constitutes good music I discovered so so so many fantastic things my heart and my brain expanded thousandfold. But I personally need to draw a line somewhere. It's not just possible to like everything. And when confronted with rock bands like Nickelback and Creed and their ilk I say "no further". (To say nothing of fascist bands, but that's kinda another story.) So I'm somewhat happy this consensus on Nickelback exists. It won't last, though. Wait a few years and some kid will take inspiration from Nickelback and create a musical masterpiece, and then this final divide will be no more.
* Some clever person has probably come up with a musch snazzier term for this, but since I'm not that clever person this will have to do.
posted by soundofsuburbia at 9:23 AM on June 3 [9 favorites]
Is this democratization of music taste* a good thing? Well, sure, of course. Snobbery and elitism is bad for you, for your surroundings and for the world. When I let go of my preconceived notions of what constitutes good music I discovered so so so many fantastic things my heart and my brain expanded thousandfold. But I personally need to draw a line somewhere. It's not just possible to like everything. And when confronted with rock bands like Nickelback and Creed and their ilk I say "no further". (To say nothing of fascist bands, but that's kinda another story.) So I'm somewhat happy this consensus on Nickelback exists. It won't last, though. Wait a few years and some kid will take inspiration from Nickelback and create a musical masterpiece, and then this final divide will be no more.
* Some clever person has probably come up with a musch snazzier term for this, but since I'm not that clever person this will have to do.
posted by soundofsuburbia at 9:23 AM on June 3 [9 favorites]
"How You Remind Me" came out in July 2021, the summer between my junior and senior year of high school in a tiny, right-wing Oregon town. Within a week it seemed to be everywhere, on every station: the top 40s, the alternative station out of Eugene, the heavy rock station out of Portland (RIP, KUFO), and even the more contemporary country stations. We dug it at first, but by September every one of the 45 kids in my class was solidly in the Nickleback-haters camp.
There were plenty of bad bands in the chugga-chugga-moan genre at the turn of the century: Puddle of Mudd, Staind, Three Doors Down, Theory of a Deadman, Breaking Benjamin, Trust Company. But none of them had the kind of ubiquity and longevity that Nickleback did, so none of them attracted the same level of ire.
posted by Just the one swan, actually at 9:23 AM on June 3 [4 favorites]
There were plenty of bad bands in the chugga-chugga-moan genre at the turn of the century: Puddle of Mudd, Staind, Three Doors Down, Theory of a Deadman, Breaking Benjamin, Trust Company. But none of them had the kind of ubiquity and longevity that Nickleback did, so none of them attracted the same level of ire.
posted by Just the one swan, actually at 9:23 AM on June 3 [4 favorites]
Let me elaborate further on that. Whatever the algorithm is that declared that Fleetwood Mac has little variability is
I just barely think Fleetwood Mac is ok, and I regularly characterize Christine McVee as playing 4 note solos, and think that Peter Green-era FleetwoodMac isn't mentioned because they were a very generic blues band (at least the songs I've heard) but I also question the algorithm there. They had 3 singers in their pop heyday - there is no way their songs sound all that similar. Even if you just count their hits- the algorithm (song energy, loudness, and danceability) the guy is using is bad.
My wife actually loves Nickelback and all that '90s fake post-grunge - she really just loves popular (emphasis on the popular) music - music is for singing along to with friends - so I've heard a lot of their songs. They just sound so unfun. Like their RockStar song made being a rock star sound unpleasant. I've always thought they sound like a musical manifestation of domestic violence- it's not that they are constantly misogynistic - they make sex sound unfun, they make reminiscing looking at photographs sound unfun. I've always kind of felt the Afghan Whigs have that sound too. There are few bands I can think of that sound that unfun.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:26 AM on June 3 [4 favorites]
I just barely think Fleetwood Mac is ok, and I regularly characterize Christine McVee as playing 4 note solos, and think that Peter Green-era FleetwoodMac isn't mentioned because they were a very generic blues band (at least the songs I've heard) but I also question the algorithm there. They had 3 singers in their pop heyday - there is no way their songs sound all that similar. Even if you just count their hits- the algorithm (song energy, loudness, and danceability) the guy is using is bad.
My wife actually loves Nickelback and all that '90s fake post-grunge - she really just loves popular (emphasis on the popular) music - music is for singing along to with friends - so I've heard a lot of their songs. They just sound so unfun. Like their RockStar song made being a rock star sound unpleasant. I've always thought they sound like a musical manifestation of domestic violence- it's not that they are constantly misogynistic - they make sex sound unfun, they make reminiscing looking at photographs sound unfun. I've always kind of felt the Afghan Whigs have that sound too. There are few bands I can think of that sound that unfun.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:26 AM on June 3 [4 favorites]
There were plenty of bad bands in the chugga-chugga-moan genre at the turn of the century:
My friends and I call it, "hunga-dunga music."
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:27 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
My friends and I call it, "hunga-dunga music."
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:27 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
democratization of music taste*
I always heard this called Poptimism.
posted by Carillon at 9:41 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
I always heard this called Poptimism.
posted by Carillon at 9:41 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
I'm so out of touch that I thought Nickleback was a Top 40 country band like Lady Antebellum or any of the other forgettable country acts I hear on the radio. Didn't realize it was this execrable Top 40 power chord rock that passes for music. Fuck Nickleback… now I hate 'em.
posted by jabo at 10:02 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
posted by jabo at 10:02 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
When I was a younger man my Nickleback was Supertramp. Oversaturation was much worse back when there were no real alternatives to radio. Now I enjoy Supertramp when I rarely hear it.
posted by srboisvert at 10:04 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 10:04 AM on June 3 [2 favorites]
The line I used back in the day for Nickelback, Creed, etc was "I liked them better when they were Pearl Jam". All those bands seemed to be grunge with the edges polished off, no piss and vinegar allowed.
posted by Ber at 10:18 AM on June 3 [5 favorites]
posted by Ber at 10:18 AM on June 3 [5 favorites]
I question this analogy. Starbuck's basic drip coffee isn't really that bad.
My analogy is that - statistically speaking - the people who go do Starbuck's that pay the bills, keep the lights on and whom have made it into the international business success that it is don't really go to Starbuck's for their drip coffee or coffee in general. They go there for coffee flavored milkshakes, which for many of those drinks they don't even use brewed coffee or espresso but instant coffee flavored powders and extracts.
But, yes, the analogy breaks down because I will actually drink Statbuck's drip coffee - or maybe even a coffee-adjacent milkshake - if I can't find anything better and I just really need a cup of a coffee.
There is no point - and never will be any point - in my life where I've voluntarily decided I really needed to listen to Nickelback because there wasn't any other music available.
If I had to choose between listening to no music at all for the rest of my life unless it was Nickelback I'd choose silence or just humming my own musical nonsense in my head. If I was trapped on a desert island with nothing but Nickelback albums I would never, ever play them.
Further I'd probably destroy, repurpose or recycle any physical media or files just to make certain there would absolutely be no chance in hell of me ever having to hear them. CDs would be recycled into signaling mirrors or knives. Vinyl might make a handy food bowl or plate, or a hat to keep the sun off my head.
I was hating Nickelback long before it was a meme or punchline and I know I'm not alone in this sentiment. The first time I heard Nickelback on MTV or the radio or whatever I instantly and viscerally disliked it and wanted it to stop and go away.
Yeah, sure, I may be a hipster scum who has "trained themselves to have their emotional catharsis through sophisticated art" or whatever.
I earnestly dislike the sound of Nickelback so much that it legitimately causes me emotional distress to hear it, and it that is it's own thing that has nothing to do with whether or not anyone else likes it for reasons that are unfathomable to me. The turgid and whiny misgyonistic lyrics are just part of it. The fact that it's repetitive or formulaic isn't really the issue, either, because I sure do love some repetitive and minimalist dub techno where you can barely tell different artists apart because it's all minor chord synth stabs with too much reverb and the same basic 4/4 beat and it's basically the Yanni of chilled out easy listening smooth jazz techno for geriatric ravers.
And it's not really some sort of elitist music snob position where I'm not allowed to like them because they're just not hip enough or they're too popular. There's a ton of wildly popular music I actively like or that I can tolerate just fine. Shoot, I can rock out with the Ramones, or AC/DC, or even Rush or TOOL. Fuck, I'd rather hear Freebird on repeat. I used to really like Jesus Jones.
I actually hate Nickelback's whole sound, production values, mixing style, tone and vibe.
If hard rock was a style or regional genre of food, Nickelback would be a version of that food where they replaced all of the ingredients with something else entirely. It's like trying to make traditional French Cuisine without butter, cheese or heavy cream. It would be a baguette or croissant without gluten. It would be street tacos made with Wonderbred instead of masa tortillas, unseasoned tinned, chipped meat instead of carne asada and ketchup instead of salsa.
It's like they took the formula for hard rock and wrung it out so completely dry so that nothing that either rocked or rolled was left like joyless, dutiful sexual intercourse strictly for the purposes of biblical procreation.
Forcing me to listen to Nickelback is like forcing someone who is a supertaster to eat piles of raw cilantro.
My idea of a particular kind of personal hell would easily be being held hostage in a car on a cross country road trip while someone blasted Nickelback at me the entire way. I would seriously rather get out and walk and take my chances hitchhiking. It would take less than a few songs before I was planning to tuck and roll out the door at speed, and I'm not even kidding about that.
I'm sincerely regretting hearing just the few bars I heard of the YouTube link I posted above because of the mental aftertaste and echoes I'm still dealing with hours later because it's making my head feel sour and nauseous like I just drank a tall glass of hot turpentine.
It is really and truly that unpleasant and distressing to me. I absolutely loathe their whole sound and oeuvre.
posted by loquacious at 10:39 AM on June 3 [11 favorites]
My analogy is that - statistically speaking - the people who go do Starbuck's that pay the bills, keep the lights on and whom have made it into the international business success that it is don't really go to Starbuck's for their drip coffee or coffee in general. They go there for coffee flavored milkshakes, which for many of those drinks they don't even use brewed coffee or espresso but instant coffee flavored powders and extracts.
But, yes, the analogy breaks down because I will actually drink Statbuck's drip coffee - or maybe even a coffee-adjacent milkshake - if I can't find anything better and I just really need a cup of a coffee.
There is no point - and never will be any point - in my life where I've voluntarily decided I really needed to listen to Nickelback because there wasn't any other music available.
If I had to choose between listening to no music at all for the rest of my life unless it was Nickelback I'd choose silence or just humming my own musical nonsense in my head. If I was trapped on a desert island with nothing but Nickelback albums I would never, ever play them.
Further I'd probably destroy, repurpose or recycle any physical media or files just to make certain there would absolutely be no chance in hell of me ever having to hear them. CDs would be recycled into signaling mirrors or knives. Vinyl might make a handy food bowl or plate, or a hat to keep the sun off my head.
I was hating Nickelback long before it was a meme or punchline and I know I'm not alone in this sentiment. The first time I heard Nickelback on MTV or the radio or whatever I instantly and viscerally disliked it and wanted it to stop and go away.
Yeah, sure, I may be a hipster scum who has "trained themselves to have their emotional catharsis through sophisticated art" or whatever.
I earnestly dislike the sound of Nickelback so much that it legitimately causes me emotional distress to hear it, and it that is it's own thing that has nothing to do with whether or not anyone else likes it for reasons that are unfathomable to me. The turgid and whiny misgyonistic lyrics are just part of it. The fact that it's repetitive or formulaic isn't really the issue, either, because I sure do love some repetitive and minimalist dub techno where you can barely tell different artists apart because it's all minor chord synth stabs with too much reverb and the same basic 4/4 beat and it's basically the Yanni of chilled out easy listening smooth jazz techno for geriatric ravers.
And it's not really some sort of elitist music snob position where I'm not allowed to like them because they're just not hip enough or they're too popular. There's a ton of wildly popular music I actively like or that I can tolerate just fine. Shoot, I can rock out with the Ramones, or AC/DC, or even Rush or TOOL. Fuck, I'd rather hear Freebird on repeat. I used to really like Jesus Jones.
I actually hate Nickelback's whole sound, production values, mixing style, tone and vibe.
If hard rock was a style or regional genre of food, Nickelback would be a version of that food where they replaced all of the ingredients with something else entirely. It's like trying to make traditional French Cuisine without butter, cheese or heavy cream. It would be a baguette or croissant without gluten. It would be street tacos made with Wonderbred instead of masa tortillas, unseasoned tinned, chipped meat instead of carne asada and ketchup instead of salsa.
It's like they took the formula for hard rock and wrung it out so completely dry so that nothing that either rocked or rolled was left like joyless, dutiful sexual intercourse strictly for the purposes of biblical procreation.
Forcing me to listen to Nickelback is like forcing someone who is a supertaster to eat piles of raw cilantro.
My idea of a particular kind of personal hell would easily be being held hostage in a car on a cross country road trip while someone blasted Nickelback at me the entire way. I would seriously rather get out and walk and take my chances hitchhiking. It would take less than a few songs before I was planning to tuck and roll out the door at speed, and I'm not even kidding about that.
I'm sincerely regretting hearing just the few bars I heard of the YouTube link I posted above because of the mental aftertaste and echoes I'm still dealing with hours later because it's making my head feel sour and nauseous like I just drank a tall glass of hot turpentine.
It is really and truly that unpleasant and distressing to me. I absolutely loathe their whole sound and oeuvre.
posted by loquacious at 10:39 AM on June 3 [11 favorites]
The last pre-release listening session I recall for Nickelback was around the the "Here and Now" album in 2011. I recall thinking "Yep, those are the two tracks for strip clubs, that's the 'hanging with my family at the barbecue' song, there's the quasi-patriotic one, and there's the three about partying." They really did lock down a formula and stick to it. Their largesse funded a lot of other memorable releases by other bands. I'm not sure if it's that album or "Dark Horse" for which there was a $150-200k music video that was produced and shelved.
They were also unique in my experience in that they could demand anything they wanted of the label, throw their weight around, and behave like assholes to us. That never happened. In fact they and their management were good partners and would talk through things a lot of the time. That didn't mean they wouldn't get their way if they really wanted to, but at least we got a fair shake. I can't say that for a lot of other bands I've worked with.
posted by Captaintripps at 10:49 AM on June 3 [4 favorites]
They were also unique in my experience in that they could demand anything they wanted of the label, throw their weight around, and behave like assholes to us. That never happened. In fact they and their management were good partners and would talk through things a lot of the time. That didn't mean they wouldn't get their way if they really wanted to, but at least we got a fair shake. I can't say that for a lot of other bands I've worked with.
posted by Captaintripps at 10:49 AM on June 3 [4 favorites]
"I liked them better when they were Pearl Jam". All those bands seemed to be grunge with the edges polished off, no piss and vinegar allowed.
Which is hilarious, because Pearl Jam is grunge with the edges polished off.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 10:57 AM on June 3 [7 favorites]
Which is hilarious, because Pearl Jam is grunge with the edges polished off.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 10:57 AM on June 3 [7 favorites]
The line I used back in the day for Nickelback, Creed, etc was "I liked them better when they were Pearl Jam".
I didn't even like Pearl Jam. I managed to have no opinion of them until one Lollapalooza where they played the same stage as Soundgarden, Jesus and Mary Chain and Ministry among others ... and what they had to offer was just so self-importantly lame in comparison. Grunge by the numbers.
posted by philip-random at 11:06 AM on June 3 [1 favorite]
I didn't even like Pearl Jam. I managed to have no opinion of them until one Lollapalooza where they played the same stage as Soundgarden, Jesus and Mary Chain and Ministry among others ... and what they had to offer was just so self-importantly lame in comparison. Grunge by the numbers.
posted by philip-random at 11:06 AM on June 3 [1 favorite]
why there's no meme about how much we all hate Fleetwood Mac
In the UK, The Reynolds Girls put up a spirited attempt to create one back in 1989.
I'm quite insistently uninterested in Nickleback, but an early experience (since recovered from) taught me that having something constantly rubbed in your... ears? can inspire some quite strong antipathy.
posted by BCMagee at 11:32 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
In the UK, The Reynolds Girls put up a spirited attempt to create one back in 1989.
I'm quite insistently uninterested in Nickleback, but an early experience (since recovered from) taught me that having something constantly rubbed in your... ears? can inspire some quite strong antipathy.
posted by BCMagee at 11:32 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]
Nickelback goes to the same box in my brain as Matchbox Twenty and various other bands, some of which I've seen mentioned here and none of which I can tell from one another. I couldn't name a song by any of them; there are certain songs that show up and you know it's one of these awful bands but figuring out which one is an exercise in pointlessness. And you can't get away from it.
I once heard someone make an apt comparison. I can't remember which band they were actually speaking about, but it pops into my brain whenever someone mentions any of them - I'll use Nickelback in this instance: "I don't have anything against Nickelback. I don't have anything against a sack full of doorknobs either, until it's beaten against my head relentlessly wherever I go."
posted by nickmark at 11:44 AM on June 3 [4 favorites]
I once heard someone make an apt comparison. I can't remember which band they were actually speaking about, but it pops into my brain whenever someone mentions any of them - I'll use Nickelback in this instance: "I don't have anything against Nickelback. I don't have anything against a sack full of doorknobs either, until it's beaten against my head relentlessly wherever I go."
posted by nickmark at 11:44 AM on June 3 [4 favorites]
* Some clever person has probably come up with a musch snazzier term for this, but since I'm not that clever person this will have to do.
posted by soundofsuburbia
Eponysterical!
posted by Piso Mojado at 11:49 AM on June 3 [6 favorites]
posted by soundofsuburbia
Eponysterical!
posted by Piso Mojado at 11:49 AM on June 3 [6 favorites]
Not mentioning in the article (but should have been): Kroeger's marriage to Avril Lavigne. Getting any kind of tabloid publicity massively increases a) your exposure, and b) how much hate you get due to a).
posted by subdee at 12:10 PM on June 3 [2 favorites]
posted by subdee at 12:10 PM on June 3 [2 favorites]
I viewed them less as Nickelback the Band than as Corporate Musical Entity #4F97EE
For those curious what that Hex color would be.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 12:20 PM on June 3 [4 favorites]
For those curious what that Hex color would be.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 12:20 PM on June 3 [4 favorites]
Not mentioning in the article (but should have been): Kroeger's marriage to Avril Lavigne. Getting any kind of tabloid publicity massively increases a) your exposure, and b) how much hate you get due to a).
The label's head of marketing wanted to put the couple's press release up on the label website when this happened and I vetoed that. You get enough hate from metalheads about this band before throwing Avril into the mix.
posted by Captaintripps at 12:48 PM on June 3 [4 favorites]
The label's head of marketing wanted to put the couple's press release up on the label website when this happened and I vetoed that. You get enough hate from metalheads about this band before throwing Avril into the mix.
posted by Captaintripps at 12:48 PM on June 3 [4 favorites]
Metafilter: There is no point - and never will be any point
posted by Hermione Dies at 12:56 PM on June 3 [2 favorites]
posted by Hermione Dies at 12:56 PM on June 3 [2 favorites]
In the UK, The Reynolds Girls put up a spirited attempt to create one back in 1989 yt .
So... does 'jack' in 1989 UK parlance (I'd rather jack than Fleetwood Mac) mean 'masturbate' or were they just really interested in becoming manual laborers at perhaps an auto repair shop, or was that perhaps the laziest attempt at rhyme in history?
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:03 PM on June 3 [1 favorite]
So... does 'jack' in 1989 UK parlance (I'd rather jack than Fleetwood Mac) mean 'masturbate' or were they just really interested in becoming manual laborers at perhaps an auto repair shop, or was that perhaps the laziest attempt at rhyme in history?
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:03 PM on June 3 [1 favorite]
Okay so I took a look at the article and it's cute and all attempting to take a perhaps overstated disdain for a recording artist and break it down to pure mathematics, but there is like a bunch of pop culture history that should be considered to give this some context.
The band started in 1995 as the various waves of grunge and alternative music had really begun to hit the point of diminishing returns as the industry promoted more mainstream acts with grunge window dressing—see also Seven Mary Three, Days of the New, Candlebox, Tonic, Collective Soul, etc. etc... What was punk rock in the early '90s turned into butt rock before the end of the decade, and as we entered the '00s, Nickelback was one of the few acts still standing that represented that shift, and they caught years' worth of resentment for it.
Checking the Billboard Hot 100, I'm also noticing that "How You Remind Me" hit the charts in September 2001 and stayed there at least through the end of the year. Really the only other rock bands on the charts with them around that time were Staind, Puddle of Mudd, Train, and occasionally Blink 182. I think an argument could be made that Nickelback got swept up into the cadre of jingoistic corporate pop artists eager to wave the flag and stand behind the war effort and the stink of that never quite came off.
I could be wrong or misguided about all of this, but that at least feels closer to the truth than "a lot of people saw Brian Posehn's joke on the TV"
posted by Maaik at 1:20 PM on June 3 [7 favorites]
The band started in 1995 as the various waves of grunge and alternative music had really begun to hit the point of diminishing returns as the industry promoted more mainstream acts with grunge window dressing—see also Seven Mary Three, Days of the New, Candlebox, Tonic, Collective Soul, etc. etc... What was punk rock in the early '90s turned into butt rock before the end of the decade, and as we entered the '00s, Nickelback was one of the few acts still standing that represented that shift, and they caught years' worth of resentment for it.
Checking the Billboard Hot 100, I'm also noticing that "How You Remind Me" hit the charts in September 2001 and stayed there at least through the end of the year. Really the only other rock bands on the charts with them around that time were Staind, Puddle of Mudd, Train, and occasionally Blink 182. I think an argument could be made that Nickelback got swept up into the cadre of jingoistic corporate pop artists eager to wave the flag and stand behind the war effort and the stink of that never quite came off.
I could be wrong or misguided about all of this, but that at least feels closer to the truth than "a lot of people saw Brian Posehn's joke on the TV"
posted by Maaik at 1:20 PM on June 3 [7 favorites]
they make sex sound unfun, they make reminiscing looking at photographs sound unfun. I've always kind of felt the Afghan Whigs have that sound too. There are few bands I can think of that sound that unfun.m
The Whigs at least had the ever-present self-loathing to make their brand of unfun make sense. Nickelback’s unfun was just incoherent.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 2:22 PM on June 3 [3 favorites]
The Whigs at least had the ever-present self-loathing to make their brand of unfun make sense. Nickelback’s unfun was just incoherent.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 2:22 PM on June 3 [3 favorites]
The Whigs at least had the ever-present self-loathing to make their brand of unfun make sense. Nickelback’s unfun was just incoherent.
The Afghan Whigs also made their domestic violence tracks pretty clear. Nickelback seems to be in denial.
This restraining order hearing "is how you remind me of what I really am".
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:45 PM on June 3 [2 favorites]
The Afghan Whigs also made their domestic violence tracks pretty clear. Nickelback seems to be in denial.
This restraining order hearing "is how you remind me of what I really am".
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:45 PM on June 3 [2 favorites]
Regarding Barney the dinosaur, I've been hating Barney for a long time, since I was a kid and was forced to watch it.
numerous YouTube videos delight in layering Nickelback songs atop one another to highlight the band's repetitiveness
Man, I actually kind of liked the mashup linked in the article, even though I've heard it before. Weird Midwestern nostalgia, kind of sounds like summer radio back in college.
The concept of low-variability music is an interesting part of the explanation. Maybe I missed it, but I'm not sure how they assess that an artist is low-variability. But I can imagine what they mean—I like a fair number of country artists whose catalog is super repetitive-sounding. They're really a guilty pleasure.
It's like how I was playing through a lot of my original songs for a friend recently and realized, wow, I seem to have accumulated a lot of songs in the key of G. And for some reason I have this signature strumming pattern that I keep coming back to because it feels really comfortable. So I've been trying to diversify that a bit for myself. But that's me, writing and recording songs at home right now. I can imagine that if an artist on a major label with like focus groups and stuff hits on a formula that works for them, and makes money doing so, it's totally possible they'll keep doing it. And I don't fault them for that, actually. I just might not listen to all of it—but then again, maybe I will!
posted by limeonaire at 4:04 PM on June 3 [1 favorite]
numerous YouTube videos delight in layering Nickelback songs atop one another to highlight the band's repetitiveness
Man, I actually kind of liked the mashup linked in the article, even though I've heard it before. Weird Midwestern nostalgia, kind of sounds like summer radio back in college.
The concept of low-variability music is an interesting part of the explanation. Maybe I missed it, but I'm not sure how they assess that an artist is low-variability. But I can imagine what they mean—I like a fair number of country artists whose catalog is super repetitive-sounding. They're really a guilty pleasure.
It's like how I was playing through a lot of my original songs for a friend recently and realized, wow, I seem to have accumulated a lot of songs in the key of G. And for some reason I have this signature strumming pattern that I keep coming back to because it feels really comfortable. So I've been trying to diversify that a bit for myself. But that's me, writing and recording songs at home right now. I can imagine that if an artist on a major label with like focus groups and stuff hits on a formula that works for them, and makes money doing so, it's totally possible they'll keep doing it. And I don't fault them for that, actually. I just might not listen to all of it—but then again, maybe I will!
posted by limeonaire at 4:04 PM on June 3 [1 favorite]
Nice, another thread I can join late and proudly identify myself as a non-ironic fan of Nickelback. I think their music is catchy and makes me want to sing along. I first caught onto them in a karaoke room somewhere long ago, and found it wasn't hard to get the group gravelly shouting "THIS IS HOW YOU REMIND ME OF WHAT I REALLY AM".
I've seen them live a few times, and they have been a blast. If the tour again near me, I will absolutely make the effort to go.
Yes, I have even seen the Nickelback Movie Nickelback: Hate to Love. I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet (although only 6 of us were in the cinema when I saw it).
In the film, band member Mike Kroeger had perhaps the best summary.
"I think sometimes people want to hear vacuous, dumb [stuff]".
WaPo writeup of Hate to Love: The band became a punchline, but they’re on tour, have a new tongue-in-cheek documentary — ‘Hate to Love: Nickelback’ — and are laughing all the way to the bank
posted by Metro Gnome at 6:16 PM on June 3 [4 favorites]
I've seen them live a few times, and they have been a blast. If the tour again near me, I will absolutely make the effort to go.
Yes, I have even seen the Nickelback Movie Nickelback: Hate to Love. I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet (although only 6 of us were in the cinema when I saw it).
In the film, band member Mike Kroeger had perhaps the best summary.
"I think sometimes people want to hear vacuous, dumb [stuff]".
WaPo writeup of Hate to Love: The band became a punchline, but they’re on tour, have a new tongue-in-cheek documentary — ‘Hate to Love: Nickelback’ — and are laughing all the way to the bank
posted by Metro Gnome at 6:16 PM on June 3 [4 favorites]
I know people who know the band rather well. Apparently, they're decent people, good company, not full of themselves. Bemused by all the hate, happy to have scooped up some significant wealth along the way, which, love em or hate em, they worked damned hard for in their early days.
posted by philip-random at 8:14 PM on June 3 [2 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 8:14 PM on June 3 [2 favorites]
I might hate Nickelback if I were able to recognize a Nickleback song when I hear it.
They're kind of the poster child for Music That Never Catches My Ear. My senses say they make pretty boring music, but they've been pretty successful making boring stuff, so good on them.
It was interesting to find their producer ran off to Nashville to wide success. Explains a lot about the country charts.
posted by 2N2222 at 10:06 PM on June 3 [1 favorite]
They're kind of the poster child for Music That Never Catches My Ear. My senses say they make pretty boring music, but they've been pretty successful making boring stuff, so good on them.
It was interesting to find their producer ran off to Nashville to wide success. Explains a lot about the country charts.
posted by 2N2222 at 10:06 PM on June 3 [1 favorite]
"I think sometimes people want to hear vacuous, dumb [stuff]"
Yep, and sometimes we want not to. And that was very hard when every radio station, dickhead with a boombox, shop radio, etc, etc was playing it constantly. Also there's something about Chad Kroeger's nasal whining voice that is not unique, but uniquely strongly expressed. If you don't like that kind of vocal (I don't) then there isn't anyone who is more that, so you feel more strongly about Chad.
posted by Dysk at 11:12 PM on June 3 [4 favorites]
Yep, and sometimes we want not to. And that was very hard when every radio station, dickhead with a boombox, shop radio, etc, etc was playing it constantly. Also there's something about Chad Kroeger's nasal whining voice that is not unique, but uniquely strongly expressed. If you don't like that kind of vocal (I don't) then there isn't anyone who is more that, so you feel more strongly about Chad.
posted by Dysk at 11:12 PM on June 3 [4 favorites]
Also as to the 'lots of other bands are popular and kinda bad' thing - Nickelback are the 101st best selling artist in history according to TFA. There aren't going to be many bands that are popular on the same scale, and similarly recently without being past the point where there was a super-dominant mainstream in radio music that made certain things very hard to avoid - who were also bad. It's a unique combination of popular at a recent time when that meant hugely overexposed, and bad. There are only 100 bands more commercially successful to try and pick and counter-example from. And there are bands there that it's memey to hate too, just not to the same extent, because the above combination of characteristics won't be quite as intense on all axes as with Nickelback.
U2 for example also get a lot of hate, who are another polarising band with a distinctive sound, a singer that rubs a lot of people the wrong way, and it's to an extent beyond the time before their mid-2000s revival forced them on everyone, including onto everyone's iPhone or iPod or iTunes library or whatever it was. But U2 had a long and generally well-received career before that (both commercially and critically) had more variety in their sound than Nickelback, were more musically ambitious, and (in my subjective opinion, but I believe this is widely held) just better music than Nickelback.
posted by Dysk at 1:23 AM on June 4 [4 favorites]
U2 for example also get a lot of hate, who are another polarising band with a distinctive sound, a singer that rubs a lot of people the wrong way, and it's to an extent beyond the time before their mid-2000s revival forced them on everyone, including onto everyone's iPhone or iPod or iTunes library or whatever it was. But U2 had a long and generally well-received career before that (both commercially and critically) had more variety in their sound than Nickelback, were more musically ambitious, and (in my subjective opinion, but I believe this is widely held) just better music than Nickelback.
posted by Dysk at 1:23 AM on June 4 [4 favorites]
I know people who know the band rather well. Apparently, they're decent people, good company, not full of themselves.
I'd love to know how they respond to people pointing out the misogyny.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:41 AM on June 4 [4 favorites]
I'd love to know how they respond to people pointing out the misogyny.
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:41 AM on June 4 [4 favorites]
Damn. I get why people hate U2, but I hope that even for the people who do, the fact that they're better than -Nickleback- would be a given.
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:49 AM on June 4 [2 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:49 AM on June 4 [2 favorites]
I know people who know the band rather well. Apparently, they're decent people, good company, not full of themselves.
This is good to hear. But should also be like the bare minimum of human decency even in the music industry. It's always been weird to me that we give passes to rock stars being assholes and brownie points when they aren't.
But, yeah, being hardworking and not being a total jerk and being professional can go a long way in the music industry.
I'm not a huge fan of Skrillex (especially the earlier wubwub bro-step stuff) but he's grown on me. Apparently he's really nice as a person and a total professional about treating and respecting his career (and the people in it) like a job.
It was interesting to find their producer ran off to Nashville to wide success. Explains a lot about the country charts.
Modern pop-country baffles me. The house I'm in has a friend/family member that's really into music with an emphasis on modern country/pop, and I haven't even heard of like 99% of it.
Every so often he will be playing a track and it starts out with a full on electronic drum machine bass kick and bass synth sub-bass note and I'm like "hey cool" and the next thing I know there's someone crooning about their ex-girlfriend's dog's broken down truck and then I'm like "wait, what?" and then there's obvious use of sampling and other EDM production values and then I'm very confused.
He has a lot of music like this and it's honestly kind of bewildering in a cool way.
posted by loquacious at 10:04 AM on June 4 [1 favorite]
This is good to hear. But should also be like the bare minimum of human decency even in the music industry. It's always been weird to me that we give passes to rock stars being assholes and brownie points when they aren't.
But, yeah, being hardworking and not being a total jerk and being professional can go a long way in the music industry.
I'm not a huge fan of Skrillex (especially the earlier wubwub bro-step stuff) but he's grown on me. Apparently he's really nice as a person and a total professional about treating and respecting his career (and the people in it) like a job.
It was interesting to find their producer ran off to Nashville to wide success. Explains a lot about the country charts.
Modern pop-country baffles me. The house I'm in has a friend/family member that's really into music with an emphasis on modern country/pop, and I haven't even heard of like 99% of it.
Every so often he will be playing a track and it starts out with a full on electronic drum machine bass kick and bass synth sub-bass note and I'm like "hey cool" and the next thing I know there's someone crooning about their ex-girlfriend's dog's broken down truck and then I'm like "wait, what?" and then there's obvious use of sampling and other EDM production values and then I'm very confused.
He has a lot of music like this and it's honestly kind of bewildering in a cool way.
posted by loquacious at 10:04 AM on June 4 [1 favorite]
Around the early 1990s, radio country pretty much became pop/rock for people who wanted music with more conservative cultural signifiers. (Or whose parents thought rock music was of the Devil.)
Pretty much any aspect of pop music, rock, or hip hop eventually finds its way into radio country, sanitized of any trace of ethnic, urban, or queer influence by a 20-something year old white boy with perfect cheekbones. It's not bad that these things influence country, but they always follow after the most over-produced, safe pop music application of these tools. There isn't any experimentation, just taking the blandest possible music and singing with a twang over it.
Guys like Dale Watson and Orville Peck still play country uninfluenced by the Achy-breakification of country, but they don't get a lot of radio play.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 11:57 AM on June 4 [3 favorites]
Pretty much any aspect of pop music, rock, or hip hop eventually finds its way into radio country, sanitized of any trace of ethnic, urban, or queer influence by a 20-something year old white boy with perfect cheekbones. It's not bad that these things influence country, but they always follow after the most over-produced, safe pop music application of these tools. There isn't any experimentation, just taking the blandest possible music and singing with a twang over it.
Guys like Dale Watson and Orville Peck still play country uninfluenced by the Achy-breakification of country, but they don't get a lot of radio play.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 11:57 AM on June 4 [3 favorites]
I might hate Nickelback if I were able to recognize a Nickleback song when I hear it.
it sounds like pure aggrieved white male to my ears
don't care if they're basically a bunch of good guys, don't begrudge them any money they've made, I just don't think the music is any good to anyone and I'm sorry they got so much play. maybe it could have been worse? I'll take it, it could have been worse
posted by elkevelvet at 2:45 PM on June 4 [1 favorite]
it sounds like pure aggrieved white male to my ears
don't care if they're basically a bunch of good guys, don't begrudge them any money they've made, I just don't think the music is any good to anyone and I'm sorry they got so much play. maybe it could have been worse? I'll take it, it could have been worse
posted by elkevelvet at 2:45 PM on June 4 [1 favorite]
I'd love to know how they respond to people pointing out the misogyny.
I think joannemerriam's comment above is a good one, and I'd agree that (a) there probably is mysogyny in their lyrics, although I suspect the older stuff is worse than the recent stuff, (b) a lot of the lyrics mentioned are taken out of context, which usually the context is "horny guy wants to get hot and heavy with his girlfriend".
posted by Metro Gnome at 4:26 PM on June 4
I think joannemerriam's comment above is a good one, and I'd agree that (a) there probably is mysogyny in their lyrics, although I suspect the older stuff is worse than the recent stuff, (b) a lot of the lyrics mentioned are taken out of context, which usually the context is "horny guy wants to get hot and heavy with his girlfriend".
posted by Metro Gnome at 4:26 PM on June 4
I don't hate Nickelback, they're just not my thing. Our nice neighbour in our old place liked them.
Damn. I get why people hate U2,
I don't hate U2, but I was really fucking annoyed back when they inserted their shitty songs into the Apple Music Playlist and we couldn't just delete them.
posted by ovvl at 6:26 PM on June 4 [2 favorites]
Damn. I get why people hate U2,
I don't hate U2, but I was really fucking annoyed back when they inserted their shitty songs into the Apple Music Playlist and we couldn't just delete them.
posted by ovvl at 6:26 PM on June 4 [2 favorites]
I think joannemerriam's comment above is a good one, and I'd agree that (a) there probably is mysogyny in their lyrics, although I suspect the older stuff is worse than the recent stuff, (b) a lot of the lyrics mentioned are taken out of context, which usually the context is "horny guy wants to get hot and heavy with his girlfriend".
Yeah, I vehemently disagree with that and the other comment. Both gently explain away what I see as the misogyny, nicely explained in that article. To each their own, but I am done today thinking about this gross band full of "nice guys."
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:23 AM on June 5
Yeah, I vehemently disagree with that and the other comment. Both gently explain away what I see as the misogyny, nicely explained in that article. To each their own, but I am done today thinking about this gross band full of "nice guys."
posted by tiny frying pan at 5:23 AM on June 5
U2 for example also get a lot of hate, who are another polarising band with a distinctive sound,
I am laughing at this in my brain because I'm remembering a thread from maybe a year ago in which someone, maybe Rolling Stone, attempted to rank all U2 songs by quality. Someone noted that 'Bad' should absolutely be number one and I remarked that I didn't recognize it, and they responded with complete disbelief that I didn't know it.
So I looked it up. I reported back that yes, I had in fact heard that song before... there was no way that I could have physically avoided hearing that song over the years... but that it hadn't registered on me strongly enough as anything beyond Yet Another Droning U2 Song that ran together in my brain at this stage with all the other Droning U2 Songs. Bad was something kind of new for U2 at that point in time, The Unforgettable Fire drifting into Eno-land art-rock, but it left me flat. I'd never felt compelled to look it up by name or remember what it was called. It was simply there, the AOR radio equivalent of elevator muzak.
And I LIKE Brian Eno. I can actually listen to Music for Airports unironically. But it's not what I put on when I want to hear rock-and-roll.
That is how I feel about Nickelback. The difference is that, unlike U2, Nickelback didn't have three strong albums _before_ they evolved into mass-market pabulum.
posted by delfin at 5:56 AM on June 5 [2 favorites]
I am laughing at this in my brain because I'm remembering a thread from maybe a year ago in which someone, maybe Rolling Stone, attempted to rank all U2 songs by quality. Someone noted that 'Bad' should absolutely be number one and I remarked that I didn't recognize it, and they responded with complete disbelief that I didn't know it.
So I looked it up. I reported back that yes, I had in fact heard that song before... there was no way that I could have physically avoided hearing that song over the years... but that it hadn't registered on me strongly enough as anything beyond Yet Another Droning U2 Song that ran together in my brain at this stage with all the other Droning U2 Songs. Bad was something kind of new for U2 at that point in time, The Unforgettable Fire drifting into Eno-land art-rock, but it left me flat. I'd never felt compelled to look it up by name or remember what it was called. It was simply there, the AOR radio equivalent of elevator muzak.
And I LIKE Brian Eno. I can actually listen to Music for Airports unironically. But it's not what I put on when I want to hear rock-and-roll.
That is how I feel about Nickelback. The difference is that, unlike U2, Nickelback didn't have three strong albums _before_ they evolved into mass-market pabulum.
posted by delfin at 5:56 AM on June 5 [2 favorites]
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I don't know. See also: Wil Wheaton and Barney the Dinosaur.
posted by JHarris at 12:44 AM on June 3 [3 favorites]