The basic urge is surprisingly complex

June 16, 2024 1:19 PM

To most people, pulling into a highway rest stop is a profoundly mundane experience. But not to neuroscientist Rita Valentino, who has studied how the brain senses, interprets and acts on the bladder’s signals. She’s fascinated by the brain’s ability to take in sensations from the bladder, combine them with signals from outside of the body, like the sights and sounds of the road, then use that information to act—in this scenario, to find a safe, socially appropriate place to pee. “To me, it’s really an example of one of the beautiful things that the brain does,” she says. from How Do We Know When to Pee? [Smithsonian; ungated]
posted by chavenet (24 comments total)

The cynical, bitter part of me wants to say "just study trans people" if you want to figure out the behavioural component. My anxiety about bathrooms definitely, and cursedly, translated into feeling I needed to pee more frequently.
posted by hoyland at 1:34 PM on June 16 [9 favorites]

use the force-sensing protein [Star Wars; National Library of Medicine]
posted by HearHere at 1:47 PM on June 16 [2 favorites]

Upon viewing Niagara Falls for the first time, tourists often claim they have to pee.
posted by Czjewel at 1:55 PM on June 16 [1 favorite]

I gotta pee thirty seconds before I unlock my front door. Hate this.
posted by seanmpuckett at 2:09 PM on June 16 [14 favorites]

As an older guy, this is relevant to my interests. Thanks.
posted by sneebler at 2:10 PM on June 16 [11 favorites]

I gotta pee thirty seconds before I unlock my front door. Hate this.

This is specifically addressed in the article!
posted by Mr. Yuck at 2:57 PM on June 16 [4 favorites]

Interesting, relevant, thanks. I am not always 100% on top of the plumbing sphincters but I can, for example, reliably wake up at night and get to the bathroom. Yes there are two - internal IUS and external EUS - urethral sphincters: one up, one down from the prostate. The external lad is skeletal = voluntary muscle, while the internal one is standard smooth muscle under the unconscious autonomic nervous system. Occasionally, acting on internal signals, my conscious self gets the "need to pee" message and I head out through the drizzle for the compost heap. On arrival [it's not limited to front doors and latchkeys] the goddam internal sphincter, which has been holding on manfully, will announce "arrived at destination!" and let go before the rest of the apparatus is out of the fly, ready to fly. It's where Free Will meets free willy! Emergency clench by the external sphincter is often not quick enough: so tinkle leakage.

I guess it's why they let lecturers retire in their 60s. It's all very well for [Bloomsday 16th June alert!] Leopold Bloom "Most of all he liked grilled mutton kidneys which gave to his palate a fine tang of faintly scented urine" to have a whiff of pee about him. But no fair on 20-somethings having to get up close and personal with a leaky lecturer during a physics lab? In a 9 y.o. that detrusor muscle is a powerful thing: hence the pee to a great height Olympics in school bathrooms . . . in an old chap, not so much.
posted by BobTheScientist at 3:11 PM on June 16 [3 favorites]

In a 9 y.o. that detrusor muscle is a powerful thing:

As a kid, I once managed to make it the duration of an ORD-MAN flight without peeing (I used to hate being able to feel the floor vibrate on planes and would sit cross legged the whole way, which I'm sure thrilled my mother in the middle seat). Let's just say it's a good thing there's a bathroom before immigration in the Manchester airport.
posted by hoyland at 3:33 PM on June 16 [2 favorites]

I'm an early 40s cis woman who had twins almost 5 years ago. Sometimes I don't know I have to pee WHILE I'm peeing. (Working on it, but also, buy poise/tena/depends, don't use menstrual pads. They're wildly amazing to be honest). I have said way more than I'll be thrilled about later. Ha!
posted by atomicstone at 3:33 PM on June 16 [8 favorites]

use the force-sensing protein

This has been a surprisingly important part of my work recently. For those who can't easily read research review articles like the one HearHere linked, it turns out that the mechanoreceptor protein Piezo1, discussed in the FPP article, can be activated not only by mechanical forces but also certain molecules. Scientists, being dorks, named these Jedi1, Jedi2, and Yoda1. It also turns out Yoda1 can be blocked by a different molecule, a phenomenon molecular biologists call antagonism. The antagonist of Yoda1 was named by dorky scientists Dooku1.
posted by biogeo at 3:46 PM on June 16 [10 favorites]

Obligatory mention of all the relevant Heart and Brain/Awkward Yeti cartoons, too many to post here. Well okay, here’s one.
posted by Melismata at 4:16 PM on June 16 [4 favorites]

As an older guy, this is relevant to my interests. Thanks.
Also mine. I'm crossing my fingers for successful treatments/cures for all sorts of conditions in the next few years, as early symptoms appear. I wonder how much the previous low interest in studying these issues was related to a dismissal of all kinds of things as just 'women's problems' until one or more male scientists with relevant emerging symptoms decided it was important after all.
posted by dg at 4:32 PM on June 16 [5 favorites]

Second wave toilet training happens at school, where children (and teachers) are trained to wait for everything, including using the toilet, and kind of more importantly, learn that their physical and emotional needs matter less than the social/economic systems they’re being groomed into.

I don’t know many teachers who don’t have cystitis or other urinary complaints, from waiting hours and sometimes all day to use the restroom. And of course how you deal with bathroom passes for students will make or break your classroom management. Toileting on demand is a human right, but too many administrators and employers don’t believe that, and we’re all paying for it.
posted by toodleydoodley at 5:00 PM on June 16 [11 favorites]

Toileting on demand is a human right, but too many administrators and employers don’t believe that, and we’re all paying for it.

And of course, for people who menstruate (which can start as early as age 8 or age 9), being denied toilet access on demand can lead to bleeding through clothes and/or bleeding onto chairs, which is both a potential biohazard, and a cause of being teased/shamed/bullied.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 6:21 PM on June 16 [7 favorites]

The article doesn't mention it, but differences in interoception due to neurodivergence can mean you're either oblivious to the need to pee until it's extremely urgent, or you're hyper aware of the need to pee even before it's necessary.

This goes along with other differences in interoception, like being unaware of hunger and thirst, or being unsure what emotions you feel in the moment, and difficulty in distinguishing between different bodily sensations and emotions ("Am I anxious, or tired? Is this a stomach ache or am I hungry, or am I upset?) .
posted by Zumbador at 8:37 PM on June 16 [9 favorites]

This discussion reminded me of the only time I can recall that I was punished with detention at school. I was always a rule-follower kid, but my fourth grade teachers took a strong dislike to me, and I spent the whole year feeling like I was on thin ice.

One day, the teacher gave us a group project, and announced that she wanted us to try answering each others' questions before asking her. After a few minutes in the project, I had to pee, so I raised my hand.

"Yes? Did you ask your question of your group mates first?" she demanded.

"Well, no, but..." I started before she cut me off:

"I told you, ask them first!" she smirked, and turned away.

So I turned to my fellow fourth graders and asked, "Can I go to the bathroom?"

They burst out laughing, and my teacher wheeled around with real fury in her eyes, clearly certain that I had said or done something to mock her. And that was how I got detention.

I don't think I got to go pee, either.

(Cross-posted to mefi.social because by the time I thought of the story and decided to write it out, I'd forgotten that this thread was what triggered the memory and so just put it there instead.)
posted by biogeo at 8:54 PM on June 16 [15 favorites]

The article doesn't mention it, but differences in interoception due to neurodivergence can mean you're either oblivious to the need to pee until it's extremely urgent, or you're hyper aware of the need to pee even before it's necessary.

Or sometimes weirdly both!

(I pretty much intentionally dehydrate myself any time I am going out anywhere I won't have ready and immediate access to a safe bathroom.)
posted by Dysk at 2:21 AM on June 17 [5 favorites]

When I was 30, I was working in a secure computer room for which I did not have adequate clearance, so I had to be escorted in and out of the room.
This means every trip to the bathroom required an escort, and sometimes everyone was busy, so I had to wait.
I believe that the 9 months I spent working there significantly increased my bladder capacity.
I hope that doesn't come back to haunt me, but it's 40 years later and there's no known other side effects.
posted by MtDewd at 7:46 AM on June 17 [2 favorites]

I believe that the 9 months I spent working there significantly increased my bladder capacity.

Probably wasn't long enough to cause any long term problems but excessive holding of urine over years can result in Teachers' Bladder, which is basically a weakening of the bladder muscles so you don't fully void among other things. It's not great.
posted by srboisvert at 3:11 PM on June 17 [2 favorites]

I gotta pee thirty seconds before I unlock my front door. Hate this.

This is specifically addressed in the article!

They did not mention how this plays out for people who live in tall apartment buildings and have to wait for elevators! It's not great Bob.

Also I would like to take this opportunity to provide this tip for the bladder stressed: If you are in a city the best bathrooms are in large hotels. Walk in like you are a guest and just find the ground floor washrooms. They will have plenty of stalls are usually very clean unlike hit or miss coffee shop bathrooms.
posted by srboisvert at 3:19 PM on June 17 [3 favorites]

Am I the only one singing "How do we know when to pee?"

Don't want no thinkpiece
to spoil the mystery for me!
posted by She Vaped An Entire Sock! at 4:51 PM on June 17

I have a bunch of too-much-information comments, and, nah. Good article, thanks for posting.
posted by theora55 at 11:23 PM on June 23 [1 favorite]

As an older guy, this is relevant to my interests.

Same. I had prostate surgery in 2017 and I haven't seen a movie in a theater since then because I can't sit that long without having to pee.
posted by mike3k at 5:10 PM on June 29

I have to mention the RunPee app, it tells you the best time to go during a movie and gives you a synopsis of what you’re missing!
posted by ellieBOA at 4:38 AM on June 30