"We get dirty and the world stays clean"
June 21, 2024 12:10 PM Subscribe
Jacob Geller analyzes every torture scene in the Call of Duty series. And breaks down the "philosophy of torture" the series presents, and the worldview that underlies it.
Mr. Geller, previously.
CW: for torture, violence in general, and militarism.
Mr. Geller, previously.
CW: for torture, violence in general, and militarism.
My 'favourite' part of any torture centred fiction is where the torturer wangs on about how they're a sin-eater. "I'm doing what needs doing so you don't have to, so your precious conscience can remain clear. If you think about it [stares nobly into the middle distance while adjusting a thumbscrew] I'm basically Jesus, me."
posted by BCMagee at 2:39 PM on June 21 [19 favorites]
posted by BCMagee at 2:39 PM on June 21 [19 favorites]
actually watches the video Good to see that sin-eater trope being called out like that, along with mention of the tickiing time bomb plot contrivance. Very good all round, but probably my actual favourite bit: "I'm not saying the line."
posted by BCMagee at 4:01 PM on June 21 [2 favorites]
posted by BCMagee at 4:01 PM on June 21 [2 favorites]
It would be interesting to see a breakdown of torture sequences in which the player character is a participant, either as torturer or victim.
That is something that feels like it has been trending upwards in recent CoD titles.
Somewhere on one of Activision's servers exists a proof of concept sequence in which the player character can use a pistol to threaten and/or shoot a character tied to a chair in various places on their body, with the goal of causing this character to suffer to the point of revealing crucial information without torturing them so much that they die. It was impressively dynamic in the way the victim responded, a tour de force of animation scripting. It would be amazing to see that level of craft applied to pretty much anything else.
posted by subocoyne at 4:24 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]
That is something that feels like it has been trending upwards in recent CoD titles.
Somewhere on one of Activision's servers exists a proof of concept sequence in which the player character can use a pistol to threaten and/or shoot a character tied to a chair in various places on their body, with the goal of causing this character to suffer to the point of revealing crucial information without torturing them so much that they die. It was impressively dynamic in the way the victim responded, a tour de force of animation scripting. It would be amazing to see that level of craft applied to pretty much anything else.
posted by subocoyne at 4:24 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]
Watched some of the video to get a general idea. I play video games sometimes but not into serious games like CoD (give me Mario and Zelda) so don’t much about torture in video games. It has been prevalent in popular culture for a while. Pretty sure Batman tortured some people. Remember Stabler from Law and Order? For both of these guys, they were justified because they were doing what had to be done. They had the guts to do the dirty work. They knew they were dealing with pieces of shit whose will could be broken. It was specifically written that way.
What’s more troubling in CoD is that the player is an active witness or participant.
You could call it a post 24 mindset, but I think it’s more of a post Abu Ghraib/ torture memos mindset. Reality drives culture much more than the reverse.
(Wanted to throw a Mel Gibson example in the mix but all I can recall are the scenes in Lethal Weapon and Braveheart where he’s getting tortured. He fetishizes it as the way for heroes to prove themselves. Dude loves being tortured.)
posted by blairsyprofane at 5:43 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]
What’s more troubling in CoD is that the player is an active witness or participant.
You could call it a post 24 mindset, but I think it’s more of a post Abu Ghraib/ torture memos mindset. Reality drives culture much more than the reverse.
(Wanted to throw a Mel Gibson example in the mix but all I can recall are the scenes in Lethal Weapon and Braveheart where he’s getting tortured. He fetishizes it as the way for heroes to prove themselves. Dude loves being tortured.)
posted by blairsyprofane at 5:43 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]
Elsewhere- Waging War Without Consequence: A Retrospective on the Narrative of the “Call of Duty: Modern Warfare” Reboot Trilogy by Kei
posted by Apocryphon at 7:38 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]
posted by Apocryphon at 7:38 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]
Ahmed Errachidi, 5-year Guantanamo detainee (no charges), is quoted at minute 35. Guantanamo and other abuses inspired searching for a helpful resource. found this in Elaine Scarry’s The Body in Pain [gbooks], 1985
such an understatement:
(26:10) Even the Inquisition, in an extraordinary setting in which it was able to perfect a vast torture machinery, was able, at best to extract nuggets of of corroborative information from torture victims. Often, that information was false, misleading, or incomplete.
RIP Galileo [History]
posted by HearHere at 11:06 PM on June 21 [2 favorites]
such an understatement:
(26:10) Even the Inquisition, in an extraordinary setting in which it was able to perfect a vast torture machinery, was able, at best to extract nuggets of of corroborative information from torture victims. Often, that information was false, misleading, or incomplete.
RIP Galileo [History]
posted by HearHere at 11:06 PM on June 21 [2 favorites]
If someone really believes torturing someone is the right thing to do, they should torture them and then turn themselves in for the crime they committed.
If they're not willing to sacrifice their freedom for what they believe in, why should we believe they would sacrifice their life for it as they claim?
posted by Brachinus at 7:08 AM on June 22 [3 favorites]
If they're not willing to sacrifice their freedom for what they believe in, why should we believe they would sacrifice their life for it as they claim?
posted by Brachinus at 7:08 AM on June 22 [3 favorites]
Thanks for posting this. The video is unambiguous on its stance on torture, but I feel like it should be stated explicitly:
These games are pro-torture for the sake of titillation, and giving any benefit of the doubt to the creators or the audience that it could possibly be otherwise is naive at best. The whole "last resort, doing what needs to be done" is a fig leaf that nobody actually believes.
It is the same as "corrective" rape; the rapists "have their reasons" but the actual reason is that they want an excuse to feel powerful by raping people.
This goes beyond stomping turtles or first person shooters. This is not an amateurish cartoon made in RPG Maker like Super Columbine Massacre RPG!. This is a popular, long-running series from a AAA game studio. The YouTube channel Extra Credit has an episode on the game Hatred and how it goes beyond edgelordism and into sadism.
Imagine a video game where you shoot people. Now imagine a video game where you only shoot Black people. Those are not the same thing. The latter is making a statement, just as CoD is making a statement.
46 times.
posted by AlSweigart at 10:00 AM on June 22 [6 favorites]
These games are pro-torture for the sake of titillation, and giving any benefit of the doubt to the creators or the audience that it could possibly be otherwise is naive at best. The whole "last resort, doing what needs to be done" is a fig leaf that nobody actually believes.
It is the same as "corrective" rape; the rapists "have their reasons" but the actual reason is that they want an excuse to feel powerful by raping people.
This goes beyond stomping turtles or first person shooters. This is not an amateurish cartoon made in RPG Maker like Super Columbine Massacre RPG!. This is a popular, long-running series from a AAA game studio. The YouTube channel Extra Credit has an episode on the game Hatred and how it goes beyond edgelordism and into sadism.
Imagine a video game where you shoot people. Now imagine a video game where you only shoot Black people. Those are not the same thing. The latter is making a statement, just as CoD is making a statement.
46 times.
posted by AlSweigart at 10:00 AM on June 22 [6 favorites]
The opening sequence of the original Call of Duty: Modern Warfare back in 2007 had you shoot a bunch of sleeping people in their beds. You couldn't proceed any further in the game if you didn't. So I never saw the rest of the game.
posted by parm at 10:56 AM on June 22 [4 favorites]
posted by parm at 10:56 AM on June 22 [4 favorites]
I don't have the source for this knowledge off-hand, but I believe it's been shown that torture mostly results in the person experiencing it trying to say whatever they think will get the torturer to stop. Which doesn't sound like a recipe for getting anything reliable out of anyone, but is great for extracting confessions from the innocent.
The purpose of a system is what it does, after all.
posted by Aleyn at 12:42 PM on June 22 [1 favorite]
The purpose of a system is what it does, after all.
posted by Aleyn at 12:42 PM on June 22 [1 favorite]
I wish I still had my copy of “The Body In Pain”, because in the section on torture Scarry notes that fictional torture starts to rise when people are doing it in real life—that it is a safety valve that allows the torturers to see themselves as moral and prevent any “are we the baddies” cognitive dissonance. And it creates this positive feedback loop that can lead to truly awful things.
24 was airing all through the aftermath of 9/11, showing that torture was effective and also that the bad guys deserved it. And then, what do you know, the Abu Ghraib news breaks. That wasn’t coincidence. It may not rise to the level of causation but it was beyond mere correlation.
The day I read that section for class, I stopped watching 24 cold turkey. I’ll grant some leeway for physical intimidation—slaps, even punches, maybe—but once you put sharp edges in the hands of “the good guys” I’m out, no matter how much I was enjoying the show up to that point. Any writer who thinks otherwise needs to watch Chain of Command Part II until they get it.
posted by thecaddy at 1:00 PM on June 22 [2 favorites]
24 was airing all through the aftermath of 9/11, showing that torture was effective and also that the bad guys deserved it. And then, what do you know, the Abu Ghraib news breaks. That wasn’t coincidence. It may not rise to the level of causation but it was beyond mere correlation.
The day I read that section for class, I stopped watching 24 cold turkey. I’ll grant some leeway for physical intimidation—slaps, even punches, maybe—but once you put sharp edges in the hands of “the good guys” I’m out, no matter how much I was enjoying the show up to that point. Any writer who thinks otherwise needs to watch Chain of Command Part II until they get it.
posted by thecaddy at 1:00 PM on June 22 [2 favorites]
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