‘One in twenty people have walked out of a restaurant without paying...
June 27, 2024 2:09 AM Subscribe
...for their meal - and apparently it is becoming more common in Britain.’ Guardian: ‘Some people may think they are able to justify their actions morally. “It may be reasoning that restaurants make so much profit that they won’t miss a few pounds, or: ‘They charge too much anyway, they’re ripping me off, I’m just reciprocating,’” he says. Others, says Beattie, may put the emphasis on those they are close to: “‘OK, the waiter might get into a bit of trouble, but hey, I’m treating my family.’” Or they may view it as a minor indiscretion in the scheme of things: “Hey, you think this is bad? Look at politicians! They’re always cheating and stealing! This is nothing in comparison.”’
Related:
* In a plot twist - the psychology professor interviewed in the Guardian admits to previously being in a 'dine and dash'.
* BBC: Dine-and-dash couple jailed and fined.
* Law Society Gazette: ‘Dine and dash’ solicitor struck off.
* BBC: Restaurant to charge upfront due to 'dine and dash'.
* Yahoo News UK: Rise in 'dine and dash' customers blamed on police 'not taking action'.
* BBC: Dine and dash hitting business hard - restaurateur.
Related:
* In a plot twist - the psychology professor interviewed in the Guardian admits to previously being in a 'dine and dash'.
* BBC: Dine-and-dash couple jailed and fined.
* Law Society Gazette: ‘Dine and dash’ solicitor struck off.
* BBC: Restaurant to charge upfront due to 'dine and dash'.
* Yahoo News UK: Rise in 'dine and dash' customers blamed on police 'not taking action'.
* BBC: Dine and dash hitting business hard - restaurateur.
The Pirate Buffet
[I agree with the lobbyist in the main article who objects to the use of "dine and dash" as it makes this sound like something of a lark instead of what it actually is, which is straight up theft]
posted by chavenet at 2:29 AM on June 27 [13 favorites]
[I agree with the lobbyist in the main article who objects to the use of "dine and dash" as it makes this sound like something of a lark instead of what it actually is, which is straight up theft]
posted by chavenet at 2:29 AM on June 27 [13 favorites]
“Hey, you think this is bad? Look at politicians! They’re always cheating and stealing! This is nothing in comparison.”’
I totally get this motivation. I'm the kind of anxious mug who will buy a six quid ticket for the ten-minute ride to the next town over every time. I have friends who don't, and get one from the conductor with some excuse if there's a ticket check. Their reasoning? "Fuck CrossCountry, they're screwing us all the time" which yeah, I cannot disagree or judge them. It's not my morality that keeps me from joining them, it's my anxiety and hard-to-shake instinctive deference to authority and systems.
posted by Dysk at 2:32 AM on June 27 [11 favorites]
I totally get this motivation. I'm the kind of anxious mug who will buy a six quid ticket for the ten-minute ride to the next town over every time. I have friends who don't, and get one from the conductor with some excuse if there's a ticket check. Their reasoning? "Fuck CrossCountry, they're screwing us all the time" which yeah, I cannot disagree or judge them. It's not my morality that keeps me from joining them, it's my anxiety and hard-to-shake instinctive deference to authority and systems.
posted by Dysk at 2:32 AM on June 27 [11 favorites]
I imagine for some it's just a crime of opportunity. I've been to a few places recently in London where we had to wait a long time for the wait staff to bring the bill and I even chatted to my friend about how easy it would be to just leave, especially when we were sat outside. I can see some people deciding to just give up and blame it on the lack of service ("I would have paid if we had the chance!").
The fact that the news has been full of stories about how overstretched the police are and how they're not able to properly investigate low level crimes is not helping. There's definitely a growing atmosphere of business owners being implicitly advised to take matters into their own hands, which I'm sure will end badly for everyone involved.
posted by fight or flight at 2:47 AM on June 27 [7 favorites]
The fact that the news has been full of stories about how overstretched the police are and how they're not able to properly investigate low level crimes is not helping. There's definitely a growing atmosphere of business owners being implicitly advised to take matters into their own hands, which I'm sure will end badly for everyone involved.
posted by fight or flight at 2:47 AM on June 27 [7 favorites]
I think the Guardian could have pressed on the "apparently getting more common". All I can find is a quote from Donna Jones, (my) police commissioner, and some comments about "anecdotally". I cannot not be sceptical about anything Jones says without data attached. Figures ought to be obtainable from police and crime recording. Though I realise "ought" probably equals something like "if someone with access had time, motivation and the ability to write queries". (The Yahoo News link is broken for me.)
posted by paduasoy at 2:53 AM on June 27 [9 favorites]
posted by paduasoy at 2:53 AM on June 27 [9 favorites]
What is the crime here? Eating a meal? A succulent Chinese meal?
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 2:56 AM on June 27 [17 favorites]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 2:56 AM on June 27 [17 favorites]
The fact that the news has been full of stories about how overstretched the police are and how they're not able to properly investigate low level crimes is not helping.
There's actually been a bit of back and forth argument in Australia that perhaps scarce (and expensive) police resources shouldn't be allocated to this sort of crime.
The reasoning is that these choices are profit maximizing choices. The restaurant could charge upfront for meals and eliminate this behavior. But they are choosing to charge for meals afterwards to create a more upscale atmosphere, which will hopefully yield more profit than what they lose in theft. The restaurant creates their own risk exposure: why should the taxpayer subsidize this behavior?
Same for retail stores that have their cashiers all set up in an island in the middle of the store instead of placing them as a natural barrier at the entrance of the store: it creates a more welcoming storefront that draws more customers in, but the lack of staff and physical barriers at the exit makes theft more likely.
Same for petrol stations that allow users to pump their petrol / gasoline first then walk into the store to pay later: they make their margins from customer impulse buys in the grocery store, which they would lose if customers just swipe, pump and leave without entering the store.
posted by xdvesper at 3:21 AM on June 27 [20 favorites]
There's actually been a bit of back and forth argument in Australia that perhaps scarce (and expensive) police resources shouldn't be allocated to this sort of crime.
The reasoning is that these choices are profit maximizing choices. The restaurant could charge upfront for meals and eliminate this behavior. But they are choosing to charge for meals afterwards to create a more upscale atmosphere, which will hopefully yield more profit than what they lose in theft. The restaurant creates their own risk exposure: why should the taxpayer subsidize this behavior?
Same for retail stores that have their cashiers all set up in an island in the middle of the store instead of placing them as a natural barrier at the entrance of the store: it creates a more welcoming storefront that draws more customers in, but the lack of staff and physical barriers at the exit makes theft more likely.
Same for petrol stations that allow users to pump their petrol / gasoline first then walk into the store to pay later: they make their margins from customer impulse buys in the grocery store, which they would lose if customers just swipe, pump and leave without entering the store.
posted by xdvesper at 3:21 AM on June 27 [20 favorites]
There's actually been a bit of back and forth argument in Australia that perhaps scarce (and expensive) police resources shouldn't be allocated to this sort of crime
Yes, at a time when the police response time to "someone is physically being attacked" can be 3 to 4 hours, people who leave restaurants without paying should not be a police priority.
I've never deliberately left a restaurant without paying, and I have no intention of doing so.
I once accidentally left a restaurant without paying, and went back as soon as I realised and they said "Oh, we hadn't even noticed! It's okay, we know where you live." [The restaurant in question was literally directly opposite my house at the time.]
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 3:40 AM on June 27 [15 favorites]
Yes, at a time when the police response time to "someone is physically being attacked" can be 3 to 4 hours, people who leave restaurants without paying should not be a police priority.
I've never deliberately left a restaurant without paying, and I have no intention of doing so.
I once accidentally left a restaurant without paying, and went back as soon as I realised and they said "Oh, we hadn't even noticed! It's okay, we know where you live." [The restaurant in question was literally directly opposite my house at the time.]
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 3:40 AM on June 27 [15 favorites]
from the second link out in the top article below the fold, before the paywall:
Ontario is proposing legislation that prevents employers from deducting dine and dash costs from employee's wages.
wait, employers were doing that?
thank you, Ontario!
posted by HearHere at 4:17 AM on June 27 [8 favorites]
Ontario is proposing legislation that prevents employers from deducting dine and dash costs from employee's wages.
wait, employers were doing that?
thank you, Ontario!
posted by HearHere at 4:17 AM on June 27 [8 favorites]
wait, employers were doing that?
Yes. I had it happen to me multiple times when I worked as a waitress in Montreal. The restaurant I worked at had a beautiful front patio that opened onto a busy street, so people would sneak out — especially during festival season. If a table left without paying, you were shit out of luck and it came out of your tips (or your pay if the day’s tips didn’t cover it).
It’s shitty that employers can (and do) make staff pay for it, it means employers have no incentive to make structural changes that prevent theft. But once the theft happens, it’s the service staff that suffer the consequences, not the restaurant owners. So the attitude that “the server might get in trouble a bit, but I’m sticking it to the man” is misguided — The Man barely notices.
posted by third word on a random page at 4:30 AM on June 27 [26 favorites]
Yes. I had it happen to me multiple times when I worked as a waitress in Montreal. The restaurant I worked at had a beautiful front patio that opened onto a busy street, so people would sneak out — especially during festival season. If a table left without paying, you were shit out of luck and it came out of your tips (or your pay if the day’s tips didn’t cover it).
It’s shitty that employers can (and do) make staff pay for it, it means employers have no incentive to make structural changes that prevent theft. But once the theft happens, it’s the service staff that suffer the consequences, not the restaurant owners. So the attitude that “the server might get in trouble a bit, but I’m sticking it to the man” is misguided — The Man barely notices.
posted by third word on a random page at 4:30 AM on June 27 [26 favorites]
the fact that some people are held to moral standards for their behavior while others are not is one of the greatest cons of the modern world
Obligatory Frank Wilhoit:
There is no such thing as liberalism — or progressivism, etc.
There is only conservatism. No other political philosophy actually exists; by the political analogue of Gresham’s Law, conservatism has driven every other idea out of circulation.
There might be, and should be, anti-conservatism; but it does not yet exist. What would it be? In order to answer that question, it is necessary and sufficient to characterize conservatism. Fortunately, this can be done very concisely.
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:
There must be in-groups whom the law protectes but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time.
For millenia, conservatism had no name, because no other model of polity had ever been proposed. “The king can do no wrong.” In practice, this immunity was always extended to the king’s friends, however fungible a group they might have been. Today, we still have the king’s friends even where there is no king (dictator, etc.). Another way to look at this is that the king is a faction, rather than an individual.
As the core proposition of conservatism is indefensible if stated baldly, it has always been surrounded by an elaborate backwash of pseudophilosophy, amounting over time to millions of pages. All such is axiomatically dishonest and undeserving of serious scrutiny. Today, the accelerating de-education of humanity has reached a point where the market for pseudophilosophy is vanishing; it is, as The Kids Say These Days, tl;dr . All that is left is the core proposition itself — backed up, no longer by misdirection and sophistry, but by violence.
So this tells us what anti-conservatism must be: the proposition that the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone, and cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.
https://crookedtimber.org/2018/03/21/liberals-against-progressives/#comment-729288
What's happening in England under Brexit would be hard to make sense of if we weren't going through our own muddled version of it in the States. Now we see it in France and Germany, Korea and Japan as well. I believe everywhere this kind of political atavism is happening is driven by real resentments of the working class post-globalization, exploited by sophisticated propaganda efforts undertaken by agents of a faction within the ultra wealthy. It sounds somewhat paranoid and/or sophomoric to say it, I truly feel somewhat awkward just typing it out, but I think we need to be wary of the impulse to appeal to bourgeois savviness here. There is a thing that has been done, is continuing to be done, to break the social contact and return us to a more explicitly feudalistic social structure. The impulse to steal what we can among those who would probably never have done so is a consequence of this.
Note: Depending on your prior convictions, what I'm saying here is either going to be something quite obviously probable, or so silly as to be dismissed out of hand. If you find yourself on the skeptical side, I really recommend the book "Mindf*ck" by Chris Wylie, the whistleblower who was working at Cambridge Analytica in 2015-2016 when the Brexit and Trump campaigns happened. IMO, those years were a pivot point, a before and after.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 4:46 AM on June 27 [26 favorites]
Obligatory Frank Wilhoit:
There is no such thing as liberalism — or progressivism, etc.
There is only conservatism. No other political philosophy actually exists; by the political analogue of Gresham’s Law, conservatism has driven every other idea out of circulation.
There might be, and should be, anti-conservatism; but it does not yet exist. What would it be? In order to answer that question, it is necessary and sufficient to characterize conservatism. Fortunately, this can be done very concisely.
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:
There must be in-groups whom the law protectes but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time.
For millenia, conservatism had no name, because no other model of polity had ever been proposed. “The king can do no wrong.” In practice, this immunity was always extended to the king’s friends, however fungible a group they might have been. Today, we still have the king’s friends even where there is no king (dictator, etc.). Another way to look at this is that the king is a faction, rather than an individual.
As the core proposition of conservatism is indefensible if stated baldly, it has always been surrounded by an elaborate backwash of pseudophilosophy, amounting over time to millions of pages. All such is axiomatically dishonest and undeserving of serious scrutiny. Today, the accelerating de-education of humanity has reached a point where the market for pseudophilosophy is vanishing; it is, as The Kids Say These Days, tl;dr . All that is left is the core proposition itself — backed up, no longer by misdirection and sophistry, but by violence.
So this tells us what anti-conservatism must be: the proposition that the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone, and cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.
https://crookedtimber.org/2018/03/21/liberals-against-progressives/#comment-729288
What's happening in England under Brexit would be hard to make sense of if we weren't going through our own muddled version of it in the States. Now we see it in France and Germany, Korea and Japan as well. I believe everywhere this kind of political atavism is happening is driven by real resentments of the working class post-globalization, exploited by sophisticated propaganda efforts undertaken by agents of a faction within the ultra wealthy. It sounds somewhat paranoid and/or sophomoric to say it, I truly feel somewhat awkward just typing it out, but I think we need to be wary of the impulse to appeal to bourgeois savviness here. There is a thing that has been done, is continuing to be done, to break the social contact and return us to a more explicitly feudalistic social structure. The impulse to steal what we can among those who would probably never have done so is a consequence of this.
Note: Depending on your prior convictions, what I'm saying here is either going to be something quite obviously probable, or so silly as to be dismissed out of hand. If you find yourself on the skeptical side, I really recommend the book "Mindf*ck" by Chris Wylie, the whistleblower who was working at Cambridge Analytica in 2015-2016 when the Brexit and Trump campaigns happened. IMO, those years were a pivot point, a before and after.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 4:46 AM on June 27 [26 favorites]
The reasoning is that these choices are profit maximizing choices. The restaurant could charge upfront for meals and eliminate this behavior. But they are choosing to charge for meals afterwards to create a more upscale atmosphere, which will hopefully yield more profit than what they lose in theft.
Or they are simply cultural norms. I can't speak for Australia, but here in Slovenia it is expected that you pay the bill at the end. There are exceptions like odd mountain hut or street food/McDonalds, but even the lowliest osteria will not charge you upfront as that would simply feel odd and disrespectful.
posted by samastur at 4:46 AM on June 27 [6 favorites]
Or they are simply cultural norms. I can't speak for Australia, but here in Slovenia it is expected that you pay the bill at the end. There are exceptions like odd mountain hut or street food/McDonalds, but even the lowliest osteria will not charge you upfront as that would simply feel odd and disrespectful.
posted by samastur at 4:46 AM on June 27 [6 favorites]
I have never dined and dashed, and automatically assumed that the consequences would fall on the staff, not anyone who has a salary. I'd love to see a Venn diagram of people who have done this and the people who have worked in food service.
posted by Kitteh at 4:58 AM on June 27 [15 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 4:58 AM on June 27 [15 favorites]
It's fairly common-- not universal-- in Philadelphia for low-end restaurants to charge before the meal arrives. I've reached the point where, if a low-end restaurant doesn't charge first, I feel like "they trust me!".
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 4:59 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 4:59 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
I have done this exactly once and I have never felt bad about it.
My wife, myself, and a friend went to a restaurant in my hometown on a thursday night. The place was mostly empty, maybe 4 tables occupied. We were seated by the hostess and given menus. 15 minutes later, our server came by and took our drink order. 15 minutes after that she came by with our drinks and said she'd be right back to take our order. 45 minutes later we decided to leave. We actually looked for someone to pay for about 5 minutes, but couldn't find anyone at all...
We read in the newspaper the next week that the restaurant was raided as part of a huge meth bust...
posted by schyler523 at 5:01 AM on June 27 [9 favorites]
My wife, myself, and a friend went to a restaurant in my hometown on a thursday night. The place was mostly empty, maybe 4 tables occupied. We were seated by the hostess and given menus. 15 minutes later, our server came by and took our drink order. 15 minutes after that she came by with our drinks and said she'd be right back to take our order. 45 minutes later we decided to leave. We actually looked for someone to pay for about 5 minutes, but couldn't find anyone at all...
We read in the newspaper the next week that the restaurant was raided as part of a huge meth bust...
posted by schyler523 at 5:01 AM on June 27 [9 favorites]
This has all the signs of a made-up cultural event that newspapers can write about. In the 80s we had muggings, because people were walking around. In the 90s we had ram-raiding, which - while popular - wasn’t as popular as you might think. Now, when the audience of newspapers is mostly old rich people, we have… dine and dash! Finally an excuse to be weird about that family eating next to you.
Also, UK restaurants should stop trying to make one server cover an enormous amount of tables. It just doesn’t work.
posted by The River Ivel at 5:25 AM on June 27 [9 favorites]
Also, UK restaurants should stop trying to make one server cover an enormous amount of tables. It just doesn’t work.
posted by The River Ivel at 5:25 AM on June 27 [9 favorites]
To tie my point back to the OP a little bit (I should be more careful about commenting at 4am)... I wonder how many of the restaurants being stolen from in this regard are owned by immigrants?
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 5:35 AM on June 27
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 5:35 AM on June 27
My grandmother accidentally did this once. We just happened to go to the same place for breakfast again the next day and got the same server who said that we still owed money from the previous day. It was pretty clear to everyone that my grandmother must have accidentally counted out the tip first and forgotten to put any cash on the table for the actual meal, but she didn't want to consider that possibility. She paid the balance without question, but for the rest of the day she kept speculating various ways in which the money was either pocketed by the wait staff or whoever bussed the table or maybe someone sitting in the booth next to ours.
This incident was traumatic enough that I either avoid going to places where you pay after the meal or I make sure that I personally hand payment+tip to the server or get up and take care of the cheque so that there's no possibility that it could disappear. And if there is an error, hopefully they can catch me before I leave the restaurant.
Paying after dining may be an untouchable tradition, but just leaving payments on the table in cash and walking out is a stupid practice which needs to end.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:37 AM on June 27 [5 favorites]
This incident was traumatic enough that I either avoid going to places where you pay after the meal or I make sure that I personally hand payment+tip to the server or get up and take care of the cheque so that there's no possibility that it could disappear. And if there is an error, hopefully they can catch me before I leave the restaurant.
Paying after dining may be an untouchable tradition, but just leaving payments on the table in cash and walking out is a stupid practice which needs to end.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 5:37 AM on June 27 [5 favorites]
The headline says that "one in twenty people have walked out of a restaurant without paying" but I think this figure deserves to be treated with skepticism. It comes from a 2018 Barclaycard marketing campaign for their "Dine and Dash" app-based payment system, described in this Independent article as follows:
posted by cyanistes at 5:57 AM on June 27 [21 favorites]
One in 20 diners have walked out of a restaurant without paying, according to a study. The research revealed fed-up restaurant goers have skipped the bill—because they were sick of waiting for the cheque. The research of 2,000 adults who eat out in restaurants found they typically have to wait nine minutes and 57 seconds from the point they ask for the bill until the moment they settle it. In response, Barclaycard is trialling ‘Dine & Dash’ at high-street chain Prezzo, which enables diners to pay automatically and walk out straight after eating—bypassing the traditional bill-paying process.Newspapers love to print surprising or shocking survey results, and so marketing departments have become adept at commissioning surveys that have exactly these kinds of results.
posted by cyanistes at 5:57 AM on June 27 [21 favorites]
I think I left a restaurant without paying once, and we had only ordered a drink each, and it was because the service was so terrible that we were going to be there for hours which we had no intention of spending at that terrible establishment. But I still felt bad about it.
I think the line of thinking which goes "there are powerful amoral people who don't face consequences, so why should I abide by rules" is no good and very much a "here there by dragons" kind of path to travel. Kind of akin to saying "because there are unpunished lawbreakers, there should be no laws." It is called the "social contract" for a reason: because it undergirds a functioning society. Being decent to each other means not screwing over underpaid waitstaff because The Big Short or whatever.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:07 AM on June 27 [6 favorites]
I think the line of thinking which goes "there are powerful amoral people who don't face consequences, so why should I abide by rules" is no good and very much a "here there by dragons" kind of path to travel. Kind of akin to saying "because there are unpunished lawbreakers, there should be no laws." It is called the "social contract" for a reason: because it undergirds a functioning society. Being decent to each other means not screwing over underpaid waitstaff because The Big Short or whatever.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:07 AM on June 27 [6 favorites]
It is called the "social contract" for a reason: because it undergirds a functioning society.
If other parties have broken the contract, it is kind of void though right? That's how contracts generally work.
(Which is why I think laws are not like contracts - OJ getting away with murder does not mean it's suddenly a free-for-all. Differential application of the law is a huge problem though.)
posted by Dysk at 6:14 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
If other parties have broken the contract, it is kind of void though right? That's how contracts generally work.
(Which is why I think laws are not like contracts - OJ getting away with murder does not mean it's suddenly a free-for-all. Differential application of the law is a huge problem though.)
posted by Dysk at 6:14 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
The one time I have dined and dashed was, heck, somewhere on the east coast in (calculates) 1989 when I suddenly needed to poo. Really badly. (this probably belongs more in this thread) I waddled (it was that bad) to the restaurant toilet to find an "Out of order" sign on it (I'm 90%, but not 100%, sure that legally a restaurant has to provide some kind of toilet facilities if you are eating in?). Asked if I could use the staff toilet as it was urgent; they said no. So I left - and left my uneaten dessert - and, literally, dashed out, hailed a passing taxi, held in the monster, got to my hotel where I thankfully had an ensuite room, and let rip in the bathroom.
I then went back down to pay the taxi driver. But I didn't go back to the restaurant.
Apart fron that, and the period after the Brexit vote when I didn't pay for coffee or coffee refills in a local Wetherspoons (just took my mug in when it was busy, filled and refilled it, used their toilets and wifi)(quite a few MetaFilter FPPs were written in there while I was drinking coffee), I've always paid.
posted by Wordshore at 6:41 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
I then went back down to pay the taxi driver. But I didn't go back to the restaurant.
Apart fron that, and the period after the Brexit vote when I didn't pay for coffee or coffee refills in a local Wetherspoons (just took my mug in when it was busy, filled and refilled it, used their toilets and wifi)(quite a few MetaFilter FPPs were written in there while I was drinking coffee), I've always paid.
posted by Wordshore at 6:41 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
One thing that gets to me is that I pay with a card, I'm handed a receipt, and the waiter is off and away, and they come back for the signed receipt when they can. If they'd wait for two minutes, I could just hand them the receipt and leave.
It seems like letting me sign and taking the receipt would be more efficient than the second trip to my table. Writing about it now, I wonder if I'm missing something. Should I leave the signed receipt on the table? Hand it to the cashier?
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 6:43 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
It seems like letting me sign and taking the receipt would be more efficient than the second trip to my table. Writing about it now, I wonder if I'm missing something. Should I leave the signed receipt on the table? Hand it to the cashier?
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 6:43 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
I have briefly worked in a customer-facing service role. In my experience the worst part of working with the public was the public. I doubt that has changed.
Sooner rather than later it will become a matter of placing your order and make payment before it is prepared. Only in the most affluent establishments will payment at the end be preserved.
posted by epo at 6:43 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
Sooner rather than later it will become a matter of placing your order and make payment before it is prepared. Only in the most affluent establishments will payment at the end be preserved.
posted by epo at 6:43 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
I'm not a big phone user, but if it's truly very common for people to dine and dash, and it isn't just some bullshit from a corporation trying to sell its product, I'm sure there's an app for that.
Have an app that you use to sync up with the restaurant/server when you walk in. Your tab is opened and everything you buy (plus the expected tip) automatically goes on the tab and is updated as you keep eating and drinking. If you don't like what you see in your phone, you can argue with the restaurant and perhaps agree on a different amount, but otherwise that's how much you're paying no matter how fast and sneaky you are, and the waiter won't have any reason to chase you down and beat your ass.
posted by pracowity at 6:44 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
Have an app that you use to sync up with the restaurant/server when you walk in. Your tab is opened and everything you buy (plus the expected tip) automatically goes on the tab and is updated as you keep eating and drinking. If you don't like what you see in your phone, you can argue with the restaurant and perhaps agree on a different amount, but otherwise that's how much you're paying no matter how fast and sneaky you are, and the waiter won't have any reason to chase you down and beat your ass.
posted by pracowity at 6:44 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
‘One in twenty people have walked out of a restaurant without paying'
The research paper on this was funded as part of Barclays Bank testing a new "invisibill" payment app which would allow customers to leave an eatery as soon as they finish the meal, with payment being credited to the establishment automatically.
"The research found that most of the 2,000 respondents admitted to leaving as they were sick of waiting for the check, with 25 percent of people polled revealing that they’d consider dipping out early if they had to wait longer than 30 minutes for their receipt."
Not quite the same as a pre-planned Dine and Dash.
posted by Lanark at 6:51 AM on June 27 [6 favorites]
The research paper on this was funded as part of Barclays Bank testing a new "invisibill" payment app which would allow customers to leave an eatery as soon as they finish the meal, with payment being credited to the establishment automatically.
"The research found that most of the 2,000 respondents admitted to leaving as they were sick of waiting for the check, with 25 percent of people polled revealing that they’d consider dipping out early if they had to wait longer than 30 minutes for their receipt."
Not quite the same as a pre-planned Dine and Dash.
posted by Lanark at 6:51 AM on June 27 [6 favorites]
Two things:
1. I write about restaurants for a living and got my start when I was living in the UK. One very stark difference I noticed between the US and UK dining norms struck me when I was there: Brits have (for decades at least) felt empowered to respond to a poor meal by saying "I won't pay for this." In my experience, it rarely happens, but just the tiny extra dose of agency might be part of what makes this article a little shocking from a North American perspective.
2. Dining and dashing is completely unethical, under any circumstance. It's a crime, and not a victimless one. All the whataboutism in this article is depressing.
posted by yellowcandy at 6:52 AM on June 27 [13 favorites]
1. I write about restaurants for a living and got my start when I was living in the UK. One very stark difference I noticed between the US and UK dining norms struck me when I was there: Brits have (for decades at least) felt empowered to respond to a poor meal by saying "I won't pay for this." In my experience, it rarely happens, but just the tiny extra dose of agency might be part of what makes this article a little shocking from a North American perspective.
2. Dining and dashing is completely unethical, under any circumstance. It's a crime, and not a victimless one. All the whataboutism in this article is depressing.
posted by yellowcandy at 6:52 AM on June 27 [13 favorites]
MetaFilter: The Man barely notices.
posted by chavenet at 7:14 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 7:14 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
The reasoning is that these choices are profit maximizing choices. The restaurant could charge upfront for meals and eliminate this behavior. But they are choosing to charge for meals afterwards to create a more upscale atmosphere, which will hopefully yield more profit than what they lose in theft. The restaurant creates their own risk exposure: why should the taxpayer subsidize this behavior?
That logic is flawed - it only works if it's the restaurant that takes the loss, but in the US it's often the waiter/waitress who gets screwed.
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 7:22 AM on June 27 [6 favorites]
That logic is flawed - it only works if it's the restaurant that takes the loss, but in the US it's often the waiter/waitress who gets screwed.
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 7:22 AM on June 27 [6 favorites]
Yes, the US is unique when it comes to screwing over waitstaff.
In a UK context, it does make sense. And paying up front is probably more familiar than in many other places, thanks to that being sort of standard for pubs.
posted by Dysk at 7:25 AM on June 27 [3 favorites]
In a UK context, it does make sense. And paying up front is probably more familiar than in many other places, thanks to that being sort of standard for pubs.
posted by Dysk at 7:25 AM on June 27 [3 favorites]
I haven't dined and dashed, but I was once out with some friends, and we left cash on the table for the bill. As we were walking out of the door, two guys ran out past us. We figured out that they had stolen the money we left on the table, so we also got out of there as fast as we could. This was a long time ago back in college, and to this day, I never leave cash on the table if I'm paying cash. If the server doesn't return in a timely manner I'll track them down and hand them the money.
posted by mollweide at 7:34 AM on June 27 [3 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 7:34 AM on June 27 [3 favorites]
I did it once as well - but I waited a full hour for my bill - and asked the manager. He just left and went looking for the waiter, and never came back. I was like "dude you missed the important part of that conversation." I asked 3 different waiters -and the place wasn't even packed or wildly busy. It was just normal.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:42 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:42 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
People were refilling our water the whole wait time too, but water refilling guy doesn't process payments. Oh well.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:44 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:44 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
Oh, remembered, overheard someone in Loughborough in 2018 who dined and dashed on Christmas Day (or rather, partially dined and furiously left). Apparently he went to a pub which was serving dinner on the 25th of December, and they turned off the TV halfway through the Queen's Christmas message to the nation. Refused to turn it back on, and several people walked straight out, including the angry diner who detailed this incident.
(That is, of course, different from the cases in the article where people have pre-arrival intentions of getting a full meal and not paying for any of it)
posted by Wordshore at 8:04 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
(That is, of course, different from the cases in the article where people have pre-arrival intentions of getting a full meal and not paying for any of it)
posted by Wordshore at 8:04 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
Incidentally, according to an Australian consumer rights magazine, the law in Australia is that if you order a meal at a restaurant, and "a reasonable time later" no food has arrived or been eaten, you can leave without paying.
The magazine suggested that "a reasonable time" to wait for your food to arrive was 30 to 45 minutes, unless you had been warned when ordering that the wait time would be longer.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 8:49 AM on June 27 [5 favorites]
The magazine suggested that "a reasonable time" to wait for your food to arrive was 30 to 45 minutes, unless you had been warned when ordering that the wait time would be longer.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 8:49 AM on June 27 [5 favorites]
If no food has been put on the table, I'd feel free to leave at any time. I suppose it might be a problem if you deliberately order stuff and bail before food shows to harass a restaurant, but *of course* I can leave without paying if have received nothing to pay for.
posted by tavella at 10:00 AM on June 27 [6 favorites]
posted by tavella at 10:00 AM on June 27 [6 favorites]
I was eating with a German once who told me that their law says if you ask for the bill three times and don’t get it, you don’t have to pay. He proceeded to make a thing of telling the waiter this was now the third time of asking. Unfortunately we were in Switzerland.
posted by Phanx at 11:00 AM on June 27
posted by Phanx at 11:00 AM on June 27
Dine and dash… feed and flee… lunch and leg it… gorge and go… munch and march… gobble and git… feast and fly… bite and beat it… sup and split… meal and move… vittles and vanish… wolf and walk… eat and out…
posted by Phanx at 11:02 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
posted by Phanx at 11:02 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
I sort of understand the mindset that can lead to this, especially if you're eating at some sort of huge chain where you know the parent company is hugely profitable.
At the same time... my (admittedly loose) understanding of how these chains work is that the individual restaurant often operate on fairly tight margins. Theft from a particular local restaurant is most likely to impact, in order: (a) the individual service worker you interacted with, who may be charged the loss themselves; (b) the local restaurant you ate at, whose profitability may determine if it remains open; and (c) eventually, way down the line, the huge profitable chain which may see a minuscule loss of revenue.
So I can't really imagine doing a "dine and dash"... not because I care about the profits of a multinational or due to any habit of "deference". But because I just don't want to hurt the folks running the local store, and especially not whatever random person happened to be serving my table.
posted by learning from frequent failure at 11:29 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
At the same time... my (admittedly loose) understanding of how these chains work is that the individual restaurant often operate on fairly tight margins. Theft from a particular local restaurant is most likely to impact, in order: (a) the individual service worker you interacted with, who may be charged the loss themselves; (b) the local restaurant you ate at, whose profitability may determine if it remains open; and (c) eventually, way down the line, the huge profitable chain which may see a minuscule loss of revenue.
So I can't really imagine doing a "dine and dash"... not because I care about the profits of a multinational or due to any habit of "deference". But because I just don't want to hurt the folks running the local store, and especially not whatever random person happened to be serving my table.
posted by learning from frequent failure at 11:29 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
The only time I nearly dinned and dashed when I was biking from BC to Alberta. I had a flat tire a day, mostly from rocks on the shoulder as I was flying down the Rockies at some insane speed. I was down to zero replacement tubes.
I figured that if I ended up with a flat after lunch, I'd be walking a double marathon to get to the next city (to Lake Louise AB from Golden BC).
I treated myself to a full rack of ribs, desert etc. And then I saw someone on a Cervelo pass by the front of the restaurant, I ran out of there, flagging them down, asking if they had any spare tubes.
I just imagine the wait staff's expression as I ran out of there.
Of course I came back and paid for the extravagant meal.
posted by ecco at 11:42 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
I figured that if I ended up with a flat after lunch, I'd be walking a double marathon to get to the next city (to Lake Louise AB from Golden BC).
I treated myself to a full rack of ribs, desert etc. And then I saw someone on a Cervelo pass by the front of the restaurant, I ran out of there, flagging them down, asking if they had any spare tubes.
I just imagine the wait staff's expression as I ran out of there.
Of course I came back and paid for the extravagant meal.
posted by ecco at 11:42 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
Dine and dash… feed and flee… lunch and leg it… gorge and go… munch and march… gobble and git… feast and fly… bite and beat it… sup and split… meal and move… vittles and vanish… wolf and walk… eat and out…
My wife calls it "chew and screw".
posted by briank at 11:55 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
My wife calls it "chew and screw".
posted by briank at 11:55 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
I don't think that I've ever dined and dashed, and if I did, it was because we couldn't find someone to pay. Chilis (and some other places) have those little trivia machines on every table, and theoretically you can pay for your meal on it any time after ordering. The last time we tried it, the machine was misconfigured, but that's how it was supposed to work in theory.
I was a waiter in Texas for 3 years in the 90s, and we never had to pay for a customer's meal. That might just be a Canadian thing?
posted by Spike Glee at 12:01 PM on June 27
I was a waiter in Texas for 3 years in the 90s, and we never had to pay for a customer's meal. That might just be a Canadian thing?
posted by Spike Glee at 12:01 PM on June 27
It seems like letting me sign and taking the receipt would be more efficient than the second trip to my table.
While it may be more efficient, hovering can make it seem like you're pressuring the customer to sign immediately (rather than inviting them to sign the check and depart at their leisure) and/or paying attention to what the table does to figure out the tip. At least in my days as a food service industry worker, the sort-of unspoken rule was that good tipping was encouraged but never overtly. From time to time people ask you what they should tip you and it's very off-putting to the server; don't do this, as a general rule (especially not phrased along the lines of "what do you think I should tip you?"). You know what an acceptable tip amount is (it's 20% in the USA). Do that. at least. More if you are so inclined.
posted by axiom at 1:28 PM on June 27
While it may be more efficient, hovering can make it seem like you're pressuring the customer to sign immediately (rather than inviting them to sign the check and depart at their leisure) and/or paying attention to what the table does to figure out the tip. At least in my days as a food service industry worker, the sort-of unspoken rule was that good tipping was encouraged but never overtly. From time to time people ask you what they should tip you and it's very off-putting to the server; don't do this, as a general rule (especially not phrased along the lines of "what do you think I should tip you?"). You know what an acceptable tip amount is (it's 20% in the USA). Do that. at least. More if you are so inclined.
posted by axiom at 1:28 PM on June 27
Nancy Lebovitz - Yes! I just leave the signed receipt on the table when paying by credit card. It would never occur to me to wait for the waiter to come back and pick up the receipt.
posted by hovey at 2:37 PM on June 27
posted by hovey at 2:37 PM on June 27
The closest to this I've ever come is when I was chased down outside by my waiter, who noted I forgot to tip (genuinely). I was a regular there, and that was embarrassing, but good on them.
posted by maxwelton at 5:42 PM on June 27
posted by maxwelton at 5:42 PM on June 27
From time to time people ask you what they should tip you and it's very off-putting to the server; don't do this, as a general rule (especially not phrased along the lines of "what do you think I should tip you?")
In 1999/2000 I ate at a fancy/nice (but not Michelin-starred or anything) restaurant in London and I wasn't sure about tipping. (Tipping is not a thing in Australia, thankfully.) I started putting £1 and £2 pound gold-coloured coins on top of the little tray that the bill was sitting on (I think I was paying by credit card.) I think I'd got to about £10 or £12 worth of coins when the waiter walked over and said firmly, with a tiny hint of telling-off, "stop, that's too much, take some back." The total bill was around £20 or £30 or £40.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 6:32 PM on June 27
In 1999/2000 I ate at a fancy/nice (but not Michelin-starred or anything) restaurant in London and I wasn't sure about tipping. (Tipping is not a thing in Australia, thankfully.) I started putting £1 and £2 pound gold-coloured coins on top of the little tray that the bill was sitting on (I think I was paying by credit card.) I think I'd got to about £10 or £12 worth of coins when the waiter walked over and said firmly, with a tiny hint of telling-off, "stop, that's too much, take some back." The total bill was around £20 or £30 or £40.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 6:32 PM on June 27
If you have a regular coffee shop/restaurant - it's worth asking if you can have an account. I usually offer to put a $100 credit on the account to start it and the manager can decide whether to give me a weekly or monthly account after that.
It is amazing how nice it feels to be able to just go in, have a quick meal/coffee and not worry about chasing someone down to pay the bill.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 6:43 PM on June 27
It is amazing how nice it feels to be able to just go in, have a quick meal/coffee and not worry about chasing someone down to pay the bill.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 6:43 PM on June 27
It is amazing how nice it feels to be able to just go in, have a quick meal/coffee and not worry about chasing someone down to pay the bill.
Due to how expensive labor is in Australia many restaurants have enabled online ordering. You sit down, scan the QR code on the table with your phone which brings up a menu already linked to your table number, select the food you want and write in any ingredient alterations then press "pay" which is app integrated with your Google Wallet or Apple Wallet. It also remembers your "favourite" orders and sometimes I just want the usual and it's already there as the first item.
At our local restaurant (that's got an average of 4.8 stars out of 5.0 over 700 reviews on Google) I sometimes get my drinks within seconds of pressing pay in the app, since it pops up immediately on their screens that "table X ordered these 3 drinks".
Of course there are still people who want to order in person and get table service, it's also available if you want it.
If they're particularly short on staff at some restaurants a robot will cheerfully deliver your food to your table...
posted by xdvesper at 6:52 PM on June 27
Due to how expensive labor is in Australia many restaurants have enabled online ordering. You sit down, scan the QR code on the table with your phone which brings up a menu already linked to your table number, select the food you want and write in any ingredient alterations then press "pay" which is app integrated with your Google Wallet or Apple Wallet. It also remembers your "favourite" orders and sometimes I just want the usual and it's already there as the first item.
At our local restaurant (that's got an average of 4.8 stars out of 5.0 over 700 reviews on Google) I sometimes get my drinks within seconds of pressing pay in the app, since it pops up immediately on their screens that "table X ordered these 3 drinks".
Of course there are still people who want to order in person and get table service, it's also available if you want it.
If they're particularly short on staff at some restaurants a robot will cheerfully deliver your food to your table...
posted by xdvesper at 6:52 PM on June 27
So - I am in Australia. The coffee shop still likes having my account - they know I don't go elsewhere to get my coffee; that when it's busy, it's a no fuss order.
I like that the transaction is disintermediated and direct - no-one clipping the ticket or tracking the data.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 8:40 PM on June 27
I like that the transaction is disintermediated and direct - no-one clipping the ticket or tracking the data.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 8:40 PM on June 27
I did this once accidently with a friend at a chocolate café in Salisbury. We were having a lovely time drinking chocolate and chatting, and when we left we just got up and went ... never thought any more of it until my friend remembered in the small hours and rang them up to pay the next day. The café staff were quite surprised.
posted by paduasoy at 2:54 AM on June 28
posted by paduasoy at 2:54 AM on June 28
I once knew a guy who was an asst.mgr. at a Cheesecake Factory. The stories he told of customers dining-and-dashing were crazy. In addition to people just up and skipping out, he had people who would all but clean their plates, and then send the remains back because it was “bad,” and then demand the meal be comped. He had one customer tell him up-front that they weren’t going to pay for the meal, even as it was being served.
According to him, corporate was well aware of the dine-and-dash problem, and their orders were to just let the customers go, and not try to stop them. Best to not make a scene.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:26 AM on June 28
According to him, corporate was well aware of the dine-and-dash problem, and their orders were to just let the customers go, and not try to stop them. Best to not make a scene.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:26 AM on June 28
« Older “I want an actual creature" | A desire for a loud car with a modified muffler is... Newer »
posted by Nothing at 2:28 AM on June 27 [25 favorites]