i met Dante
June 27, 2024 4:01 AM Subscribe
included within a recent announcement by the the Internet Archive is a list of banned books. this is a great resource! started reading & only got as far as Aristotle & Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe [gbooks]. there's apparently also a film. looking forward to exploring further! thank you Internet Archive folx ❤️❤️❤️
Is there anyway to download this list? I can't see any - forgive me if it's obvious and I just cannot see it - but there doesn't seem a way to (I am on a PC not mobile if that makes any difference)
posted by Faintdreams at 5:27 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
posted by Faintdreams at 5:27 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
The list itself is a Google Sheet; you might only be able to download if you've been given permission by the owner of the sheet. It doesn't look like we have been given that permission.
Also, there's a bit more to this story than the FPP says. This isn't just "a list of banned books" - this is a list of banned books that the Internet Archive previously had available for people to borrow, but have had to withdraw from their service thanks to the outcome of a lawsuit brought against the Internet Archive by several publishers.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:34 AM on June 27 [5 favorites]
Also, there's a bit more to this story than the FPP says. This isn't just "a list of banned books" - this is a list of banned books that the Internet Archive previously had available for people to borrow, but have had to withdraw from their service thanks to the outcome of a lawsuit brought against the Internet Archive by several publishers.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:34 AM on June 27 [5 favorites]
If a young person in your life wants access to banned and challenged books, I would recommend they check out programs like Books Unbanned, for example, at the Boston Public Library.
posted by betweenthebars at 5:53 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
posted by betweenthebars at 5:53 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
The Internet Archive brought this on itself with the unbelievably stupid, short-sighted National Emergency Library initiative. They had an uneasy detente with the publishers over their controlled digital lending scheme for about a decade but the NEL wasn't just poking the bear, it was punching it in the face. It was daring the publishers to sue which they, of course, instantly did. If the IA falls it basically committed suicide via recklessness.
posted by star gentle uterus at 5:58 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
posted by star gentle uterus at 5:58 AM on June 27 [4 favorites]
They describe the banned list as "banned and challenged" books, without any citations as to who banned or challenged them. Last time I dug into the details on a list like this, it turned out lots of school districts have a method for anyone to challenge any book, and even if the challenge is ignored/overturned by the school, some groups will report it as banned. Reporting challenged books as banned makes for sensational headlines but is clickbaity IMHO.
There are much better sourced lists out there. For example, this article both summarizes and has links to the primary sources ( data provided by Florida School Boards on how many books were objected to as well as which were actually removed.) In Escambia county for example there were 215 objections but only 9 actual removals.
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 5:59 AM on June 27 [3 favorites]
There are much better sourced lists out there. For example, this article both summarizes and has links to the primary sources ( data provided by Florida School Boards on how many books were objected to as well as which were actually removed.) In Escambia county for example there were 215 objections but only 9 actual removals.
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 5:59 AM on June 27 [3 favorites]
I like my pasta cooked over fire and brimstone and served Al Dante.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 8:01 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
posted by I-Write-Essays at 8:01 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
If the IA falls it basically committed suicide via recklessness.
They were asking for it. They should have just done what the corporate middlemen wanted, rather than testing new ways of serving the public interest. Three massive publishing conglomerates and a major private equity-owned academic publisher had no choice but to file a lawsuit over a temporary public service during a global emergency. Those companies were forced to negotiate a settlement that removes half a million books from a digital library. This definitely wasn't part of a broader campaign to impose an extractivist business model on ebook lending that maximizes profits for vendors and publishers while circumscribing libraries' rights and restricting their ability to serve their patrons online.
posted by Gerald Bostock at 10:35 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
They were asking for it. They should have just done what the corporate middlemen wanted, rather than testing new ways of serving the public interest. Three massive publishing conglomerates and a major private equity-owned academic publisher had no choice but to file a lawsuit over a temporary public service during a global emergency. Those companies were forced to negotiate a settlement that removes half a million books from a digital library. This definitely wasn't part of a broader campaign to impose an extractivist business model on ebook lending that maximizes profits for vendors and publishers while circumscribing libraries' rights and restricting their ability to serve their patrons online.
posted by Gerald Bostock at 10:35 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
You are being sarcastic but yes, that was precisely the case. I'm not saying it should be, but it is.
They should have just done what the corporate middlemen wanted, rather than testing new ways of serving the public interest.
Yes, the Internet Archive should have assessed reality and the completely, 100% predictable results of their actions and the massive, massive risk they were taking rather than wagering it all on vibes and the benevolence of the publishing companies who had not already spent a decade being openly mad about the lending activities of the Internet Archive. See? I can do sarcasm too!
Yes, they were asking for it by doing what they did. Yes, there was no other possible outcome and they should have known this.
posted by star gentle uterus at 11:39 AM on June 27
They should have just done what the corporate middlemen wanted, rather than testing new ways of serving the public interest.
Yes, the Internet Archive should have assessed reality and the completely, 100% predictable results of their actions and the massive, massive risk they were taking rather than wagering it all on vibes and the benevolence of the publishing companies who had not already spent a decade being openly mad about the lending activities of the Internet Archive. See? I can do sarcasm too!
Yes, they were asking for it by doing what they did. Yes, there was no other possible outcome and they should have known this.
posted by star gentle uterus at 11:39 AM on June 27
Hey, I for one would be grateful if the National Emergency Library derail stopped.
posted by Pronoiac at 3:03 PM on June 27 [1 favorite]
posted by Pronoiac at 3:03 PM on June 27 [1 favorite]
Pronoiac, i entirely agree with you! there is currently an appeal, so we can hope.
Gerald Bostock, one of the links in the article you shared was paywalled. it was outdated anyway. if you or anyone else is interested, 2026 is the next scheduled proceeding against extractivist monopolization.
thank you all for your perspectives
posted by HearHere at 7:56 PM on June 27
Gerald Bostock, one of the links in the article you shared was paywalled. it was outdated anyway. if you or anyone else is interested, 2026 is the next scheduled proceeding against extractivist monopolization.
thank you all for your perspectives
posted by HearHere at 7:56 PM on June 27
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posted by DJZouke at 5:02 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]