Most of us just want to be heard, but never are.

June 27, 2024 8:51 AM

Students at Echo Glen High School, who are incarcerated at a children’s prison in Snoqualmie, Washington, have been making short films about their lives. To protect their privacy you usually do not see the students’ faces or hear their voices.

In “Walk One Mile,” the youth came up with images to expand on a poem written by one of their fellow students. “Letter to God” is also based on student poem; in this one you see one of the youth, as she was old enough to choose to be filmed (she said there was already plenty of bad stuff about her out there, so she’d like to have some good stuff). In “Please Understand,” the students were given whiteboards to say what they would like people to know about them. The animated "Reflecting Resilience" has interviews with the students.

posted by The corpse in the library (27 comments total)

Background information on the kids at Echo Glen.
posted by The corpse in the library at 9:11 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]

The fact that we live in a country with prisons for children sure is something

Okay I should follow the actual links but had to get that off my chest first
posted by Suedeltica at 9:26 AM on June 27 [19 favorites]

Juvie!... Don't most fair sized town and cities have them?
posted by Czjewel at 9:53 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]

[content note: torture] juvenile justice advocates.org
posted by HearHere at 10:01 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]

Yes, and that's what juvie is: children's prison. Thank you OP for not using euphemisms and calling Echo Glen what it is. And thank you to the Echo Glen children for sharing their stories.
posted by capricorn at 10:03 AM on June 27 [5 favorites]

(To be fair, I would have haaaaaated being called a "child" at any age past 11! So, to be fair to them, "the young people" of Echo Glen.)
posted by capricorn at 10:04 AM on June 27 [3 favorites]

They range in age from 11 to 25. They used to automatically be moved to adult prisons at age 18, but a new law in Washington State -- which some of the Echo Glen youth testified in favor of -- lets them remain at the youth facility until they're 25 if it's more appropriate.
posted by The corpse in the library at 10:19 AM on June 27

I've filled in for teachers at our local children's prison, and my first reaction while watching these is that this film program is both awesome and terrible (because children's prisons shouldn't exist).

My second is that, "Wait, those kids get to see trees?!" The windows at our kiddie prison look like the kinds in most adult jails: narrow slits. It seems like they never get fresh air, and I never saw anyone allowed out to the tiny little outdoor area with a mini basketball court. And that, too, is absolutely terrible.
posted by RedEmma at 10:28 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]

I want to know what crimes were committed before they were placed in the detention center.
posted by Czjewel at 10:33 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]

I want to know what crimes were committed before they were placed in the detention center.

Why? Are you suggesting there are crimes terrible enough that children deserve to be imprisoned instead of entering some form of rehabilitation?
posted by potent_cyprus at 11:19 AM on June 27 [6 favorites]

I want to know what crimes were committed before they were placed in the detention center.

The crimes are what the adults did when they locked these children away.
posted by chavenet at 12:00 PM on June 27 [4 favorites]

Why? Are you suggesting there are crimes terrible enough that children deserve to be imprisoned instead of entering some form of rehabilitation?

Three weeks ago, a 17-year-old high school student tried to break up a fight. For this, he was shot in the chest and killed. This happened during lunch break in the parking lot of Garfield high school in Seattle. No arrests have yet been made, but his killer is believed to be another high-school aged boy.

When/if the killer is caught, what do you propose doing with him that's going to stop him from killing or hurting somebody else, if it doesn't involve locking him up?

IMHO child sentencing needs to have the utmost scrutiny applied, but there's a threshold. Individuals who demonstrate willingness and capacity for impulsive murder and extreme violence are a menace to others and need to be locked up to protect the public.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 1:34 PM on June 27 [4 favorites]

IMO the voting age in every state should be pegged to the lowest age of an inmate in prison in that state. If children are responsible enough to be sent to prison, they're responsible enough to vote.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:01 PM on June 27 [5 favorites]

When/if the killer is caught, what do you propose doing with him that's going to stop him from killing or hurting somebody else, if it doesn't involve locking him up?

How can you be so certain that locking him up is going to stop him from killing or hurting anyone else, when the recividism rate for juvenile offenders is even higher than it is for adults?

A 2015 report from the CSG Justice Center compiled data from the 39 states that do track recidivism in order to compare the reported state statistics. The study found that juveniles were far more likely than adults to reoffend after release across all states. The highest reported recidivism rate for juvenile offenders was 76% within three years, and 84% within five years. When these juvenile offenders reach adulthood, the numbers are equally high. In 2015, Joseph Doyle, a researcher at MIT, decided to determine the rate of adult re-offense for prior juvenile offenders who spent time in a detention facility. Together with a colleague at Brown, Doyle analyzed data on 30,000 juvenile offenders over the previous ten years who had been involved in the Illinois juvenile justice system. Their study found that 40% of juvenile offenders were incarcerated in an adult prison for reoffending by the time they turned 25.
posted by oneirodynia at 2:01 PM on June 27 [2 favorites]

It's going to stop him from hurting or killing anyone on the outside while he's locked up, which is better than nothing.

If you want to make a harm reduction argument for avoiding prison, we need a comparison between the group that was incarcerated vs. the group that went through non-carceral rehabilitation, not a comparison between adults and children.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 2:28 PM on June 27 [2 favorites]

children's prisons shouldn't exist

The deluge of Performative Progressivism here is... something. Yes, there are usually external reasons why teenagers commit violent crimes. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep them segregated from the rest of the teens, children and adults who could potentially be their next victim. Just imagine what happens to the politician who advocates for amnesty or for releasing such teenagers into the general population, once more than one of said teens harms another innocent. Just imagine what happens to that innocent's family.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 3:05 PM on June 27

It's going to stop him from hurting or killing anyone on the outside

The other children in the cage with him, though? They're fair game!
posted by adrienneleigh at 3:05 PM on June 27

The other children in the cage with him, though? They're fair game!

The state has a responsibility to protect inmates from each other. It often fails at that responsibility, but that's a different discussion.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 3:13 PM on June 27 [1 favorite]

I am performing only my own sense of right and wrong when I say "children's prisons should not exist" also when I say "prisons should not exist" and also when I say "our U.S. court system is broken past the point of repair."

I say this after 25 years of civil and criminal court reform work, including some significant reforms which did, in fact, help people but failed to change the direction of our oppressive, inequitable, inefficient and often random system.
posted by crush at 3:17 PM on June 27 [4 favorites]

Some of the students at Echo Glen have raped children. What, post-prison abolition, should happen with people who rape children?
posted by argybarg at 4:06 PM on June 27 [1 favorite]

The films are really short. Like, two minutes. Not a big time commitment to watch.
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:14 PM on June 27 [4 favorites]

Thanks for righting the derail, corpse. I watched a selection of the films. I hope making them was a valuable exercise for some of these kids. They have varying degrees of thoughtfulness, introspection, seriousness - just like you'd expect from a high school film assignment, because that's essentially what it is.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:33 PM on June 27 [1 favorite]

The woman behind the project hopes to make it become like an afterschool club, where residents of any of the cottages can come join in -- for now, she has to do them one cottage at a time because it's understaffed.

An aside: she said the most popular club there now is for playing Magic: The Gathering. I looked in the films and didn't see any decks, just Uno and standard cards, but I presume they're not allowed to keep Magic cards in their rooms.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:46 AM on June 28 [2 favorites]

The film titled “what makes me proud” brought tears to my eyes. I hope they all find their way out of prison and on to happy lives.
posted by bunderful at 7:56 PM on June 28 [1 favorite]

The idea that saying "putting children in cages is bad" is a derail from a thread about what children think about when you put them in cages is baffling to me.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:53 PM on June 28

I mean, here is the reality: these children are in cages. Despite folks waving around high-profile cases of children who rape or murder, the vast majority of these children are there because of neglect, abuse, and racial discrimination. Regardless of whether they belong there or not, they will be emotionally, physically, and probably sexually abused in custody. They are overwhelmingly likely to have lifelong trauma, and to end up in the adult prison pipeline when they are released. And none of this contributes to the overall safety of society.
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:08 PM on June 28 [1 favorite]

I agree with you that putting children in cages is bad. I'd hoped we'd have more of a discussion of what the children think about being in jail and less what we think about putting the children in jail. But threads meander, and that is fine.
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:01 PM on June 29 [2 favorites]