Yoko and the Beatles
July 6, 2024 1:50 AM Subscribe
"The reasons the Beatles broke up are extremely well documented and even at the height of their animosity none of the band ever blamed Yoko Ono for it - so why is this still a thing?" So asks Lindsay Ellis in a heartfelt 100-minute video essay (originally on Nebula, now also on YouTube).
The video covers a lot of ground, including: the breakup of the Beatles; Ono herself, and her relationship with John; the nature of celebrity; how spouses, friends and lovers of famous men are oft blamed for "ruining" said men's careers (and sometimes outright killing them dead!); and more.
The video covers a lot of ground, including: the breakup of the Beatles; Ono herself, and her relationship with John; the nature of celebrity; how spouses, friends and lovers of famous men are oft blamed for "ruining" said men's careers (and sometimes outright killing them dead!); and more.
"originally on Nebula, now also on YouTube" caught my attention.
Then this made me laugh: An implication that Lindsay Ellis also received a telegram from YouTube.
posted by weft at 3:42 AM on July 6
Then this made me laugh: An implication that Lindsay Ellis also received a telegram from YouTube.
posted by weft at 3:42 AM on July 6
...so why is this still a thing?
I’ll take Misogyny and Bigotry for 100, Ken.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:02 AM on July 6 [34 favorites]
I’ll take Misogyny and Bigotry for 100, Ken.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:02 AM on July 6 [34 favorites]
Sexism and Yoko Ono's work mostly being very offputting to people. I think her work is mostly somewhere between bad and just dull, but I doubt a lot of obsessive Beatle's fans would have the stomach for atonal screaming and performance art, even if her work were brilliant.
Why emotionally engage with which of several artists you respect tuined your favorite band when you could blame the loud, foreign lady.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 4:07 AM on July 6 [12 favorites]
Why emotionally engage with which of several artists you respect tuined your favorite band when you could blame the loud, foreign lady.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 4:07 AM on July 6 [12 favorites]
Yoko Ono was/is an intriguing artist and musician, comes across as a thoughtful human being in interviews I've seen, and has been a sensitive and caring custodian of Lennon's legacy.
I really appreciate that this post about one of Yoko's songs, released about ten years ago, was overwhelmingly excited (except for one single comment making a lazy diss). The song is a total banger, too.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:13 AM on July 6
I really appreciate that this post about one of Yoko's songs, released about ten years ago, was overwhelmingly excited (except for one single comment making a lazy diss). The song is a total banger, too.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:13 AM on July 6
My Yoko Ono story - well, a friend of a friend's story - is that she had an exhibit at the museum of modern art in Montreal where you could wait for a phone to ring. If it did, that was Yoko Ono calling. So a friend's friend, who was in a Beatles cover band, camped out at the exhibit with the idea that he would get Yoko Ono to bless his band, which she did.
posted by subdee at 4:30 AM on July 6 [20 favorites]
posted by subdee at 4:30 AM on July 6 [20 favorites]
It's a good video. I was not previously aware of the significance of Epstein's role, and Ono'scontributions to Lennon's most well known songs.
posted by idb at 4:30 AM on July 6 [1 favorite]
posted by idb at 4:30 AM on July 6 [1 favorite]
Literally 100s of millions of people are fans of the Beatles/their music to some extent. That means 10s of millions of Beatles fans are complete morons and 10s of millions of them have their brain rotted with xenophobia / sexism.
But I feel like saying people are dumb/sexist papers over some dynamics of celebrity here. I guess I don't have time for two hours of youTube so I will only speak for my self.
In mid-adulthood now, Rory's explanation of being tired adults looking for a new way to expand their career makes sense to me. But I really haven't thought much about the Beatles since becoming a full-fledged adult. I really did my most reading about / listening to the Beatles in mid/late adolescence. And in that time in my life, I don't know a single person who hadn't recently lived through the experience of either (1) the one friend in the adolescent friend group dating someone everyone flipping HATES, maybe for good reason (2) the one friend cycling through identities and switching from being super into 'punk-rock/pokemon/DnD/whatever other shared interest' into being super into 'hanging with boyfriend/girlfriend all the time' indemnity. The means it's super easy for a 19 year old music nerd of any generation to map their own experience of 'evil girl/boy friend' onto the relationships among the Beatles. Of course, that's insane, but that's how celebrity work... celebrities are kinda impossible to relate to, however we all map our own experiences onto them so that we can relate to them... despite the insanity of that attempt.
posted by midmarch snowman at 5:07 AM on July 6 [11 favorites]
But I feel like saying people are dumb/sexist papers over some dynamics of celebrity here. I guess I don't have time for two hours of youTube so I will only speak for my self.
In mid-adulthood now, Rory's explanation of being tired adults looking for a new way to expand their career makes sense to me. But I really haven't thought much about the Beatles since becoming a full-fledged adult. I really did my most reading about / listening to the Beatles in mid/late adolescence. And in that time in my life, I don't know a single person who hadn't recently lived through the experience of either (1) the one friend in the adolescent friend group dating someone everyone flipping HATES, maybe for good reason (2) the one friend cycling through identities and switching from being super into 'punk-rock/pokemon/DnD/whatever other shared interest' into being super into 'hanging with boyfriend/girlfriend all the time' indemnity. The means it's super easy for a 19 year old music nerd of any generation to map their own experience of 'evil girl/boy friend' onto the relationships among the Beatles. Of course, that's insane, but that's how celebrity work... celebrities are kinda impossible to relate to, however we all map our own experiences onto them so that we can relate to them... despite the insanity of that attempt.
posted by midmarch snowman at 5:07 AM on July 6 [11 favorites]
john & yoko: above us only sky is another good recent documentary. if you haven't clicked the link in the FPP yet: it is an informative & detailed study, also [content note: violence]
posted by HearHere at 5:34 AM on July 6 [1 favorite]
posted by HearHere at 5:34 AM on July 6 [1 favorite]
Yeah its total bullshit. Yoko is an artist too, and you can like her art or not. Calling her art bad is also a tired cliche, as well as blaming her for breaking up a band that was going to break up. If she was just a male friend John was hanging out with, the blame would never have landed, and their art would probably have been left alone too.
Mis. O. Gyny.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:31 AM on July 6 [6 favorites]
Mis. O. Gyny.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:31 AM on July 6 [6 favorites]
Calling her art bad is also a tired cliche, as well as blaming her for breaking up a band that was going to break up
She definitely didn't "break up the Beatles". (And if she did, God bless her. Harrison and McCartney did great solo work thatI doubt would habe survived unscathed trying to collaborate with 'Imagine' era Lennon.)
That said, I still think her solo work is genuinely mediocre or vapid. I like modern art, performance art, and experimental music.I like the work of Marina Abramovic and Diamanda Galas. I even like Ono as a person, but her work just feels very shallow to me. I might be missing something, but that is my take.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:56 AM on July 6 [5 favorites]
She definitely didn't "break up the Beatles". (And if she did, God bless her. Harrison and McCartney did great solo work thatI doubt would habe survived unscathed trying to collaborate with 'Imagine' era Lennon.)
That said, I still think her solo work is genuinely mediocre or vapid. I like modern art, performance art, and experimental music.I like the work of Marina Abramovic and Diamanda Galas. I even like Ono as a person, but her work just feels very shallow to me. I might be missing something, but that is my take.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 6:56 AM on July 6 [5 favorites]
Has enough time passed that we can all admit that the tsunami of criticism Lindsay Ellis got for a single tweet calling Raya and the Last Dragon a redux of Avatar the Last Airbender was the product of misogyny and NOTHING ELSE? Because Raya and the Last Dragon IS a redux of Avatar the Last Airbender? And when the man behind Honest Trailers said the same thing it was absolutely hilarious because of how obvious that is?
Or do we have to wait another 60 years before we give Ellis her due?
posted by AlSweigart at 7:10 AM on July 6 [17 favorites]
Or do we have to wait another 60 years before we give Ellis her due?
posted by AlSweigart at 7:10 AM on July 6 [17 favorites]
So, I admit I hadn't started in on the 100-minute video before writing my opening comment here—I just wanted to chip in at the start with some positive vibes for Yoko. But I've started it now.
I'm only ten minutes in, but it's excellent. And highly distressing. The poor woman, what a nightmare.
posted by rory at 7:24 AM on July 6
I'm only ten minutes in, but it's excellent. And highly distressing. The poor woman, what a nightmare.
posted by rory at 7:24 AM on July 6
I might be missing something,
"he came across a display set in darkness, on a raised white panel with a flood light set up to illuminate it. The display featured a standard-sized wooden ladder, with a magnifying glass hanging on a chain above it. On the ceiling was a piece of clear glass. Lennon climbed the ladder, grabbed the magnifier and moved it across the piece of clear glass until it found, in tiny letters handwritten in black ink, a single word: Yes.
"Later, Lennon said that what he felt while looking at that tiny “Yes.” was relief. “It’s a great relief when you get up the ladder and you look through the spyglass and it doesn’t say ‘no’ or ‘fuck you’ or something. It says ‘yes.’” Ono described the piece as being about the discovery of hope, even when it’s hard to find. If you complete the task of climbing the ladder, and searching for it, you will find the affirmative. You will find hope." [medium]
posted by HearHere at 7:31 AM on July 6 [18 favorites]
"he came across a display set in darkness, on a raised white panel with a flood light set up to illuminate it. The display featured a standard-sized wooden ladder, with a magnifying glass hanging on a chain above it. On the ceiling was a piece of clear glass. Lennon climbed the ladder, grabbed the magnifier and moved it across the piece of clear glass until it found, in tiny letters handwritten in black ink, a single word: Yes.
"Later, Lennon said that what he felt while looking at that tiny “Yes.” was relief. “It’s a great relief when you get up the ladder and you look through the spyglass and it doesn’t say ‘no’ or ‘fuck you’ or something. It says ‘yes.’” Ono described the piece as being about the discovery of hope, even when it’s hard to find. If you complete the task of climbing the ladder, and searching for it, you will find the affirmative. You will find hope." [medium]
posted by HearHere at 7:31 AM on July 6 [18 favorites]
I know she was born in Tokyo, but I think she often comes across as a really quintessential New Yorker, and from a British point of view that plays into a background sense that the bloody Yanks stole our Liverpool lads.
posted by Phanx at 7:38 AM on July 6 [2 favorites]
posted by Phanx at 7:38 AM on July 6 [2 favorites]
Mrs C gifted me with the "Get Back" DVDs and we watched in January.
In a nutshell, the Beatles were an unusually talented, motivated and productive combination of individuals, some good breaks, and getting known just in time to feed an exploding market. Then comes the fishbowl of celebrity, the pressure of maintaining your brand, and all new work being judged against your past successes.
8 years of that, financially set for life, and the desire to go in different directions, ... I'd lose interest in being a Beatle too. As documented, the cracks were there, and Harrison was the first to leave, albeit temporarily. So, not Yoko.
Growing up in the 60s and 70s - pop stars were our idols and influencers... but looking back now, it must be a particular piece of hell to have to keep performing the stuff you wrote 40+ years ago... Unless you really want to.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:39 AM on July 6 [1 favorite]
In a nutshell, the Beatles were an unusually talented, motivated and productive combination of individuals, some good breaks, and getting known just in time to feed an exploding market. Then comes the fishbowl of celebrity, the pressure of maintaining your brand, and all new work being judged against your past successes.
8 years of that, financially set for life, and the desire to go in different directions, ... I'd lose interest in being a Beatle too. As documented, the cracks were there, and Harrison was the first to leave, albeit temporarily. So, not Yoko.
Growing up in the 60s and 70s - pop stars were our idols and influencers... but looking back now, it must be a particular piece of hell to have to keep performing the stuff you wrote 40+ years ago... Unless you really want to.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:39 AM on July 6 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Comment and response removed. Lets avoid snark that perpetuates the stigma the post is discussing, thank you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:05 AM on July 6 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:05 AM on July 6 [3 favorites]
If you don't get Yoko Ono's work, seriously, just get yourself a copy of Grapefruit. Either the lightbulb will go on or, I dunno, you're doomed.
posted by phooky at 8:06 AM on July 6 [6 favorites]
posted by phooky at 8:06 AM on July 6 [6 favorites]
I cannot recommend enough Ono's poetry and art experiments in Grapefruit: a Book of Instructions and Drawings (for sale from MoMA). Here is the entire book (PDF). I feel that Ono has been done a great disservice by mass misogyny, and by people who found her early music to be "atonal screaming" and decided she must be stupid or untalented.
posted by panhopticon at 8:07 AM on July 6 [4 favorites]
posted by panhopticon at 8:07 AM on July 6 [4 favorites]
ha that's weird I was just thinking about this a day or two ago. it's just racist sexist garbage to blame her for the breakup.
posted by supermedusa at 8:17 AM on July 6
posted by supermedusa at 8:17 AM on July 6
I just wanted to drop in my favorite Yoko Ono-related joke, which is from Season 1 of Slings and Arrows:
Holly Day: "We have plans for a musical about the Beatles -- we're even in talks with Yoko."
Richard Smith-Jones: "... Ono!?"
posted by Saxon Kane at 8:27 AM on July 6 [2 favorites]
Holly Day: "We have plans for a musical about the Beatles -- we're even in talks with Yoko."
Richard Smith-Jones: "... Ono!?"
posted by Saxon Kane at 8:27 AM on July 6 [2 favorites]
The point is, they were once a real powerful group. It's not a stretch to say they ruled the world. And when they broke up, everyone blamed Yoko, but the fact is, the group split itself apart. She just happened to be there.- Spike, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, "The Yoko Factor," 5/9/2000
God, it's good to get new stuff from Lindsay Ellis.
It's not surprising that a racist, misogynistic narrative took over, particularly when the writers and other members of the media most interested in exploiting Lennon's death saw Yoko Ono as the primary barrier to their doing so.
It's wild, however, that even with all that, Brian Epstein's death isn't more centered in the cultural narrative there.
And another point, which I'd never really put together and is only even really glanced upon in the video essay, is the toll that not touring took on the group. We mythologize Hamburg and the Cavern Club, them getting their 10,000 hours playing together or whatever, but then discount the role that not playing together anymore except in studio sessions would have on a band's cohesion, particularly for a band forged by playing so many live sets together. (In addition to the loss of the downtime between sets when there's not much better to do then to collaborate on songwriting.)
Though, as she points out, these are all what-ifs basically demanding more from a group that doesn't owe us anything more anyway.
posted by Navelgazer at 8:35 AM on July 6 [9 favorites]
(Oh, and it's just cool to know that Ellis is right about Abbey Road.)
posted by Navelgazer at 8:36 AM on July 6 [1 favorite]
posted by Navelgazer at 8:36 AM on July 6 [1 favorite]
I really Dar Williams's song I Won't Be Your Yoko Ono:
I wonder if Yoko Ono
Ever thought of staying solo
If she thought of other men and
If she doubted John Lennon
Worrying that he'd distract her art
Sitting in the Apple sessions
Giving John her music lessons
Challenging the warring nations
With her paper installations
Did she guard her Yoko human heart
posted by ceejaytee at 8:50 AM on July 6 [7 favorites]
I wonder if Yoko Ono
Ever thought of staying solo
If she thought of other men and
If she doubted John Lennon
Worrying that he'd distract her art
Sitting in the Apple sessions
Giving John her music lessons
Challenging the warring nations
With her paper installations
Did she guard her Yoko human heart
posted by ceejaytee at 8:50 AM on July 6 [7 favorites]
Yeah, misogyny isn't exactly unknown in the world of rock criticism/studies. (I'm flashing back to the early 90's where some NME or Melody Maker scribe reviewed a Lydia Lunch show - where she made her negative opinions of patriarchy quite known - and said male journalist ended his review with the single sentence "She doesn't sweat much for a fat girl".)
One has to wonder, if John and Yoko never met and she never entered the Beatles' world, would folks have instead blamed the breakup of the Beatles on Linda McCartney (another Beatles wife whose subsequent involvement in her husband's post-Beatles projects wasn't exactly met with unanimous praise).
posted by gtrwolf at 8:53 AM on July 6 [7 favorites]
One has to wonder, if John and Yoko never met and she never entered the Beatles' world, would folks have instead blamed the breakup of the Beatles on Linda McCartney (another Beatles wife whose subsequent involvement in her husband's post-Beatles projects wasn't exactly met with unanimous praise).
posted by gtrwolf at 8:53 AM on July 6 [7 favorites]
I really appreciated the early call-out of specific, individual men nursing personal grudges who started pushing the Hack Parasite Yoko myth. (Oh, she won't let me embezzle from the estate? I'll show her!) Then and now, we've seen so many huge culture-pervading gender-war broohahas that start out with some petty little ass after some petty little revenge.
posted by ormondsacker at 9:03 AM on July 6 [12 favorites]
posted by ormondsacker at 9:03 AM on July 6 [12 favorites]
Misogyny of course. Even if the root cause of the Beatles breaking up was John's relationship with Yoko that would mean John was responsible for breaking up the Beatles. It's not like she kidnapped him or anything.
posted by Mitheral at 9:08 AM on July 6 [3 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 9:08 AM on July 6 [3 favorites]
HearHere: Ceiling Painting is genuinely good. No denying that.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 9:09 AM on July 6 [1 favorite]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 9:09 AM on July 6 [1 favorite]
Something else that clicked with me from this essay is that John was both a fairly adolescent dick (that much I knew already, though I've always loved his instincts towards pushing his songwriting and a lot of the results that came from that) but also very openly and honestly self-reflective about his past adolescent dickishness. He was somebody who, it seems, genuinely wanted self-improvement, and it's not at all hard to see how much Yoko would have been an inspiration to him in that regard.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:27 AM on July 6 [7 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 9:27 AM on July 6 [7 favorites]
I'm happy to see Lindsay back since let's face it, I'm not paying for Nebula and then forgetting to watch it. Very thoughtful and well done, turns to other vilified women these days, proves the Beatles had their own issues.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:31 AM on July 6 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:31 AM on July 6 [4 favorites]
I've watched the whole thing now, and it's uniformly excellent—a big chunk of the middle isn't about the Beatles or Ono at all, but broadens the scope in a highly compelling way, and then she brings it back beautifully. Thanks for posting, maxwelton. For anyone else who's wondering if it's worth a hundred minutes of your time, I invite you to climb this step ladder up to the ceiling, take hold of the magnifying glass hanging down on a chain, and hold it up to the tiny word painted on a piece of paper above you that says...
posted by rory at 9:47 AM on July 6 [6 favorites]
posted by rory at 9:47 AM on July 6 [6 favorites]
Has enough time passed that we can all admit that the tsunami of criticism Lindsay Ellis got for a single tweet calling Raya and the Last Dragon a redux of Avatar the Last Airbender was the product of misogyny and NOTHING ELSE? Because Raya and the Last Dragon IS a redux of Avatar the Last Airbender? And when the man behind Honest Trailers said the same thing it was absolutely hilarious because of how obvious that is?
Um, no. Because while the torrent of vitriol and abuse that bad faith actors hurled at her was absolutely the product of misogyny - the underlying criticism that was leveled, that Ellis was falling into a longstanding hole in Western criticism of being overly focused on Western media without due consideration of non-Western traditions, is in fact legitimate. (And the Honest Trailers guy is falling into the exact same hole.)
The reason the two properties feel very similar is because they're playing with the same underlying media tropes - specifically, they're both quite shonen by the numbers, painfully so. Which is not surprising given the increase in popularity of shonen media in the US starting in the mid-90s - as I've said before, Avatar: The Last Airbender was created by Nickelodeon as a counter to the success that Cartoon Network was having with bringing in shonen series to the US, and following their preference for internally developed properties over licensing. And in general, there's been a growth of Eastern influences in Western animation - there's always been crosstalk between Western and Eastern animation (and this is a topic worthy of a FPP), but the crosstalk has increased in the past 30-odd years for a few reasons (which is another topic for its own thread.)
And for people who are fans of Western and Eastern animation, this is all pretty well understood - which is why Ellis' lack of awareness about this crosstalk was so surprising. And again, her argument that Raya was derivative of A:TLB fell into a major hole that we see in Western criticism - viewing things through an overly Western focused lens, which serves to blind critics of non-Western media traditions and tropes. This is why Asian creators took such offense to the comment - it was once again arguing that the Asian creators involved with Raya were pulling from Western creators rather than both drawing from non-Western sources and traditions, and thus having a similar feel. This is a long running problem with Western criticism, and it needs to be faced head on.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:49 AM on July 6 [7 favorites]
Um, no. Because while the torrent of vitriol and abuse that bad faith actors hurled at her was absolutely the product of misogyny - the underlying criticism that was leveled, that Ellis was falling into a longstanding hole in Western criticism of being overly focused on Western media without due consideration of non-Western traditions, is in fact legitimate. (And the Honest Trailers guy is falling into the exact same hole.)
A moderate digression on what the actual criticism is...
The reason the two properties feel very similar is because they're playing with the same underlying media tropes - specifically, they're both quite shonen by the numbers, painfully so. Which is not surprising given the increase in popularity of shonen media in the US starting in the mid-90s - as I've said before, Avatar: The Last Airbender was created by Nickelodeon as a counter to the success that Cartoon Network was having with bringing in shonen series to the US, and following their preference for internally developed properties over licensing. And in general, there's been a growth of Eastern influences in Western animation - there's always been crosstalk between Western and Eastern animation (and this is a topic worthy of a FPP), but the crosstalk has increased in the past 30-odd years for a few reasons (which is another topic for its own thread.)
And for people who are fans of Western and Eastern animation, this is all pretty well understood - which is why Ellis' lack of awareness about this crosstalk was so surprising. And again, her argument that Raya was derivative of A:TLB fell into a major hole that we see in Western criticism - viewing things through an overly Western focused lens, which serves to blind critics of non-Western media traditions and tropes. This is why Asian creators took such offense to the comment - it was once again arguing that the Asian creators involved with Raya were pulling from Western creators rather than both drawing from non-Western sources and traditions, and thus having a similar feel. This is a long running problem with Western criticism, and it needs to be faced head on.
posted by NoxAeternum at 10:49 AM on July 6 [7 favorites]
Ah, it was about ethics in cartoon journalism.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 10:59 AM on July 6 [3 favorites]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 10:59 AM on July 6 [3 favorites]
ctrl/f "revolution 9" yields zero hits.
Good, because I often see it dragged out to prove a point that Yoko somehow misled John into inexcusably weird avant garde territory. Quite the opposite, I think. Her influence allowed them to go further at a time when I think they were feeling rather restricted (by fame mostly). And though I wouldn't argue that Rev-9 is the best thing on the Beatles White Album, it's definitely the track that negates various of Paul McCartney's blandly bland misfires allowing me to say with confidence that The White Album is their best album.
Thank you, Yoko!
posted by philip-random at 11:52 AM on July 6 [2 favorites]
Good, because I often see it dragged out to prove a point that Yoko somehow misled John into inexcusably weird avant garde territory. Quite the opposite, I think. Her influence allowed them to go further at a time when I think they were feeling rather restricted (by fame mostly). And though I wouldn't argue that Rev-9 is the best thing on the Beatles White Album, it's definitely the track that negates various of Paul McCartney's blandly bland misfires allowing me to say with confidence that The White Album is their best album.
Thank you, Yoko!
posted by philip-random at 11:52 AM on July 6 [2 favorites]
I guess not, AlSweigart.
posted by doctornemo at 11:53 AM on July 6 [4 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 11:53 AM on July 6 [4 favorites]
At the risk of derailing this thread further, I don't believe this links have been shared on Metafilter before:
posted by jomato at 11:59 AM on July 6 [4 favorites]
- How Disney Commodifies Culture - Southeast Asians Roast Raya and the Last Dragon (Part 1)
- How Disney Commodifies Culture - Southeast Asians Roast Raya and the Last Dragon (Part 2)
they're both quite shonen by the numbers, painfully soI'm not a shonen expert, but I've watched several of the most famous series (One Piece, FMA:B, Attack on Titan, My Hero Academia, Demon Slayer, a few more I'm sure), and I would say the narrative similarities between Raya and A:TLA go way beyond general shonen tropes.
posted by jomato at 11:59 AM on July 6 [4 favorites]
Watching Ellis's video today prompted me to finally get around to watching the re-release of Let it Be on Disney+ this evening, which I'd only heard about second-hand for all these years. I loved Jackson's Get Back, with its development from the unfocused jams at Twickenham with flashes of tetchiness, to the bonhomie of the Apple sessions as they relaxed again, leading to the glorious finale on the roof; but I held off on watching Let it Be because I figured it must contain more of the bad vibes I'd heard about. I assumed that Let it Be must have been edited to make things look worse than they were, and that Get Back was the corrective to that.
And what do I find, but... jams at Twickenham, one or two brief moments of very mild tetchiness, bonhomie at Apple, and a glorious finale on the roof. It's the same, but with different scenes, fewer between-songs moments, and different takes of the songs, plus some that aren't in Get Back. Watching it was essentially like watching an extra episode of Jackson's documentary series, and just as fascinating and enjoyable.
I feel like I've been lied to by forty years of received wisdom. (54, really, but I was two when it came out.)
And Yoko is on screen for a few minutes at most in total, I'd bet.
ctrl/f "revolution 9" yields zero hits.
I love it too (and thought Ellis's dig it at was a bit of an easy laugh, but at least she didn't labour the point). I agree, it was the track that made the White Album more than the sum of its parts—which was my favourite Beatles album too, until Abbey Road was, until I decided it was Revolver, and now I take comfort from knowing that I don't have to choose—nobody's hitting me up for a clickbait listicle—and I can just love them all.
posted by rory at 1:43 PM on July 6 [5 favorites]
And what do I find, but... jams at Twickenham, one or two brief moments of very mild tetchiness, bonhomie at Apple, and a glorious finale on the roof. It's the same, but with different scenes, fewer between-songs moments, and different takes of the songs, plus some that aren't in Get Back. Watching it was essentially like watching an extra episode of Jackson's documentary series, and just as fascinating and enjoyable.
I feel like I've been lied to by forty years of received wisdom. (54, really, but I was two when it came out.)
And Yoko is on screen for a few minutes at most in total, I'd bet.
ctrl/f "revolution 9" yields zero hits.
I love it too (and thought Ellis's dig it at was a bit of an easy laugh, but at least she didn't labour the point). I agree, it was the track that made the White Album more than the sum of its parts—which was my favourite Beatles album too, until Abbey Road was, until I decided it was Revolver, and now I take comfort from knowing that I don't have to choose—nobody's hitting me up for a clickbait listicle—and I can just love them all.
posted by rory at 1:43 PM on July 6 [5 favorites]
Anthem (on Yoko Ono, Tobi Vail writing in the first Bikini Kill zine in 1991)
posted by box at 2:01 PM on July 6 [3 favorites]
posted by box at 2:01 PM on July 6 [3 favorites]
Years ago I wrote Yoko via email saying how much I admired her and how much I knew John loved her and what a beautiful relationship they had. And how unfair people had been to her over the years. She wrote me back and thanked me for writing her and that she appreciated it very much.
posted by rmmcclay at 6:43 PM on July 6 [5 favorites]
posted by rmmcclay at 6:43 PM on July 6 [5 favorites]
As Chuck D and Flavor Flav made clear, beat is for Sonny Bono; beat is for Yoko Ono.
posted by jonp72 at 9:43 PM on July 6
posted by jonp72 at 9:43 PM on July 6
Mod note: Not deleting (for now), but if anyone wants to pursue further discussion of Raya, please make a new post for that. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:05 PM on July 6
posted by taz (staff) at 11:05 PM on July 6
I'll be watching this ASAP. Even as a kid, when I started getting into the Beatles in a big way (about five or six years after they broke up), it was pretty obvious that the main reason for their breaking up really had nothing to do with their wives and everything to do with their being very different people--John seemed to want to do really arty things with Yoko and Paul wanted to be a big damn rock star for a while longer, and they both succeeded pretty well at those things. (I was shocked at first when I saw the Two Virgins album cover--if you want to look it up, it's NSFW, you're getting the full Monty--but then I figured out that there was probably no better way of John getting across the message that he was very much an ex-Beatle.) But people who were used to getting their Extruded Pop Product on a regular basis had to blame someone. And, yeah, it was hella racist and sexist; I didn't see this, but one book said that there was at least one cartoon portraying Yoko as a monkey. Holy shit, y'all.
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:22 PM on July 6 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:22 PM on July 6 [2 favorites]
It just seems to me that the Beatles had done everything they could and had boxed themselves into a corner -- they couldn't play live anymore, firstly because the screams of full stadiums drowned them out even before they evolved into what they became after '66 or so, and secondly because much of their stuff from '66 and beyond couldn't be played live. It was time for all of them to get off the bus. Yoko got a bad rap...
posted by AJaffe at 8:22 AM on July 7 [1 favorite]
posted by AJaffe at 8:22 AM on July 7 [1 favorite]
This was really well-done and thoughtful and informative. I've never been more than a casual Beatles fan (child of the 70s, went through my Beatles phase in the 80s, I actually like Wings), so of course I accepted the prevailing narrative that "Yoko did it." But over the years as I saw/learned more about the Beatles and John and Yoko's relationship and Yoko herself, the less that narrative made sense, until I came to recognize it as more of a cultural signifier of misogyny (and racism) regardless of the facts of the matter.
But even so I knew little of Yoko's art or career, and as a result of my ignorance recognized but never really understood how she seemed to retain a certain level of respect in some circles. This gives some really good context for that, and gave me some much-needed perspective. Her art actually reminds me of some of the things I've seen (have most liked and remember and talk about) at Burning Man events -- I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she has some involvement with the Burner community, b/c in some respects it seems like it would be her jam.
posted by Pedantzilla at 9:11 AM on July 7 [1 favorite]
But even so I knew little of Yoko's art or career, and as a result of my ignorance recognized but never really understood how she seemed to retain a certain level of respect in some circles. This gives some really good context for that, and gave me some much-needed perspective. Her art actually reminds me of some of the things I've seen (have most liked and remember and talk about) at Burning Man events -- I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she has some involvement with the Burner community, b/c in some respects it seems like it would be her jam.
posted by Pedantzilla at 9:11 AM on July 7 [1 favorite]
But people who were used to getting their Extruded Pop Product on a regular basis had to blame someone.
I would hardly call late period Beatles 'extruded pop product'. I agree the breakup was not Ono, simply that the individual Beatles had grown as people in ways that no longer fit together in the confines of a band, but that seems like a weird snipe.
posted by tavella at 11:28 AM on July 7 [6 favorites]
I would hardly call late period Beatles 'extruded pop product'. I agree the breakup was not Ono, simply that the individual Beatles had grown as people in ways that no longer fit together in the confines of a band, but that seems like a weird snipe.
posted by tavella at 11:28 AM on July 7 [6 favorites]
On reflection, tavella, I guess that does sound like I'm accusing them of being hacks, and that's sincerely not the case. Much of their later output was still pretty top-40-friendly, but they also took many risks--and, I think, succeeded more often than not--that they absolutely didn't have to.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:43 PM on July 7
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:43 PM on July 7
I actually thought the "extruded pop product" was more of a dig at McCartney and his post-Beatles reputation for "fluff".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:00 PM on July 7
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:00 PM on July 7
I read 'extruded pop product' as a reference to a subset of Beatles fans that are weirdly possessive of their artistic output, like how dare George play the sitar, or John make mediocre sound collages, or, especially, Yoko come along and put ideas in the heads of our Very Special Beatle John. Or, alternately, what Phil Spector did to The Long and Winding Road.
(To be fair, I may be interpreting things in a way that matches my preexisting opinions about a)the more, let's say traditionalist, wing of Beatles fandom and b)Phil Spector.)
posted by box at 1:08 PM on July 7 [1 favorite]
(To be fair, I may be interpreting things in a way that matches my preexisting opinions about a)the more, let's say traditionalist, wing of Beatles fandom and b)Phil Spector.)
posted by box at 1:08 PM on July 7 [1 favorite]
It's pretty hard to accuse the Beatles of ever just phoning it in. Probably the opposite; their fame permitted them to put out some really ground-breaking stuff and it got heard..
And the Lennon-Oko combination has resulted in some moving things - Imagine. Give Peace A Chance.
Do I think McCartney occasionally wrote dreck? I do.. But also so much that's fantastic... And still writing...
posted by Artful Codger at 3:46 PM on July 7
And the Lennon-Oko combination has resulted in some moving things - Imagine. Give Peace A Chance.
Do I think McCartney occasionally wrote dreck? I do.. But also so much that's fantastic... And still writing...
posted by Artful Codger at 3:46 PM on July 7
Or, alternately, what Phil Spector did to The Long and Winding Road.
One of my favorite remixes/re-releases is Let It Be... Naked.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:43 PM on July 7 [2 favorites]
One of my favorite remixes/re-releases is Let It Be... Naked.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:43 PM on July 7 [2 favorites]
Watching it now, and the bit where John and George were talking about keeping the Beatles going in between their solo projects, and Peter Jackson saying that when he talked to Paul about that and Paul saying that he wished that he'd known about that conversation at the time... holy shit, what if?
...but then I got to the ending and her point that maybe "The End" really should have been the end, and... OK.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:58 PM on July 8 [2 favorites]
...but then I got to the ending and her point that maybe "The End" really should have been the end, and... OK.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:58 PM on July 8 [2 favorites]
never really understood how she seemed to retain a certain level of respect in some circles.
One of my favorite factoids is that there were apparently more than a few people in Yoko's world who thought her getting involved with John was a step down.
posted by rhizome at 11:53 AM on July 11 [2 favorites]
One of my favorite factoids is that there were apparently more than a few people in Yoko's world who thought her getting involved with John was a step down.
posted by rhizome at 11:53 AM on July 11 [2 favorites]
I regret that it took me until today to get this to the top of my list. This is an outstanding work that should win a prestigious industry award.
posted by ob1quixote at 9:10 AM on July 12
posted by ob1quixote at 9:10 AM on July 12
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Yoko Ono was/is an intriguing artist and musician, comes across as a thoughtful human being in interviews I've seen, and has been a sensitive and caring custodian of Lennon's legacy. Thumbs up, would approve of her being the love of his life again.
posted by rory at 3:19 AM on July 6 [19 favorites]