Baby steps
July 9, 2024 9:10 AM Subscribe
With no national support or attention, Arkansas women (and a few good men) did what everyone said couldn’t be done. On July 5, organizers turned in enough signatures to qualify an amendment to restore access to abortion in Arkansas (Daily Kos) despite fake sabotage emails purportedly from organizers and a recent legal change making amendments more difficult to place on the ballot. The amendment campaign has moved forward without the support of national advocacy groups (Slate) because it protects abortion rights up to 18 weeks instead of the limit under Roe, 24 weeks. Supporter and Arkansas ObGyn Dr. Dina Epstein points out, “The proposed amendment covers 98% of cases that occurred previously. … There are situations still, just because of the resources that we have available in the state of Arkansas, that we would not be able to do because we aren’t equipped to do that, and those patients would still need to travel out of state, which was the case previously. So again, not necessarily ideal for those patients, but it does improve access dramatically for the majority of patients who would be affected by this.”
Amazing. Go, Arkansas!
posted by samthemander at 9:32 AM on July 9 [3 favorites]
posted by samthemander at 9:32 AM on July 9 [3 favorites]
We need a serious adoption campaign for encrypted messangers too, because the unencrypted ones like Facebook/Meta cause problems, like the evidence that landed this teen 90 days in jail.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:36 AM on July 9 [10 favorites]
posted by jeffburdges at 9:36 AM on July 9 [10 favorites]
(This is really "No Baby Steps")
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:38 AM on July 9 [11 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 9:38 AM on July 9 [11 favorites]
Well fucking done.
posted by AdamCSnider at 10:28 AM on July 9 [6 favorites]
posted by AdamCSnider at 10:28 AM on July 9 [6 favorites]
this is very inspiring of hope. people can come together and organize and make the changes they want.
posted by supermedusa at 10:32 AM on July 9
posted by supermedusa at 10:32 AM on July 9
Good reminder that voting is not just about the Presidential election. Every race and initiative counts.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:33 AM on July 9 [26 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:33 AM on July 9 [26 favorites]
The Slate article in the post has a lot of interesting criticisms of the referendum's arbitrary 18-week cutoff, which some researchers and activists claim is giving up too much to anti-abortion forces by basically ok-ing a ban after that, along with claims that the polling data the referendum folks relied on for their 18-week limit is too simplistic and doesn't really capture the public's broader support for more expansive abortion rights. It's worth a read for all the nuances of the back-and-forth over whether trying to soften the language of these referenda at the start is a mistake. Here's one example:
Erika Christensen of Patient Forward, a group that advocates for expansive abortion protections, said the idea that banning abortion at a specific week is reasonable “is willfully ignorant.”
She noted that abortion bans at any gestation are dangerous for pregnant people...Plus, abortion bans at specific weeks not only create stigma and harm people’s health, they allow the state to surveil and prosecute all pregnancy outcomes—not just abortion...Christensen said the Arkansas proposal would “ensure the most under-resourced and over-policed members of their communities bear the brunt of their political cowardice.”
posted by mediareport at 10:50 AM on July 9 [10 favorites]
Erika Christensen of Patient Forward, a group that advocates for expansive abortion protections, said the idea that banning abortion at a specific week is reasonable “is willfully ignorant.”
She noted that abortion bans at any gestation are dangerous for pregnant people...Plus, abortion bans at specific weeks not only create stigma and harm people’s health, they allow the state to surveil and prosecute all pregnancy outcomes—not just abortion...Christensen said the Arkansas proposal would “ensure the most under-resourced and over-policed members of their communities bear the brunt of their political cowardice.”
posted by mediareport at 10:50 AM on July 9 [10 favorites]
Congrats to the teams that worked on this! Still looking for a linkable full text of the proposed legislation, found it via Google but couldn't link. Definitely see some wiggle room for challenges but I'm glad to see a lot of deferment to physician judgment.
And trying to be positive about the concept of 18 wks as the new 24 wks, esp since it seems to be 18w0d and not 18w6d. Definitely better than the current 4-6 wks, and I agree with Dr Epstein that 18 weeks covers a good number of cases. But it will be a challenge to current protocols to get all genetic testing and fetal assessments results in before 18w0d, and it also requires couples make rapid decisions. Not to mention it retains the issues of patients themselves having to find, schedule, and pay for out of state travel and services.
posted by beaning at 10:57 AM on July 9 [6 favorites]
And trying to be positive about the concept of 18 wks as the new 24 wks, esp since it seems to be 18w0d and not 18w6d. Definitely better than the current 4-6 wks, and I agree with Dr Epstein that 18 weeks covers a good number of cases. But it will be a challenge to current protocols to get all genetic testing and fetal assessments results in before 18w0d, and it also requires couples make rapid decisions. Not to mention it retains the issues of patients themselves having to find, schedule, and pay for out of state travel and services.
posted by beaning at 10:57 AM on July 9 [6 favorites]
I'm in favour of there being no limits on abortion whatsoever, but local organizers likely know better than national ones what their neighbours will support. Good for them for accomplishing this much.
posted by joannemerriam at 10:58 AM on July 9 [47 favorites]
posted by joannemerriam at 10:58 AM on July 9 [47 favorites]
That quote from mediareport's post is maddening. They did a difficult thing that will help a lot of people if it continues to succeed, but it isn't perfectly what you would want in an ideal world so they are cowards. The left really does eat its own sometimes.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:05 AM on July 9 [29 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 11:05 AM on July 9 [29 favorites]
The Slate article in the post has a lot of interesting criticisms of the referendum's arbitrary 18-week cutoff,
On the one hand, I'm sure it does. On the other hand, Jesus Fucking Christ on a Pogo Stick, people!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:13 AM on July 9 [6 favorites]
On the one hand, I'm sure it does. On the other hand, Jesus Fucking Christ on a Pogo Stick, people!
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:13 AM on July 9 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I feel like a less-than-perfect solution that a grassroots movement can get on the ballot in a hostile state is better than a perfect initiative that never gets traction.
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:14 AM on July 9 [37 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 11:14 AM on July 9 [37 favorites]
Yeah, there's nothing stopping Erika Christensen from moving to Arkansas and trying to get her favored wording on the ballot. Until she does that she can quit calling other people cowards.
posted by tavella at 11:15 AM on July 9 [14 favorites]
posted by tavella at 11:15 AM on July 9 [14 favorites]
PHOTOS: Repro rights supporters cheer a milestone in push to put abortion on the ballot (Arkansas Times, a long-running alt-weekly (that publishes monthly now))
posted by box at 11:34 AM on July 9 [4 favorites]
posted by box at 11:34 AM on July 9 [4 favorites]
The left really does eat its own sometimes.
The theoretical perfect is the mortal enemy of the achievable good.
Ergo, my ability to feel morally superior is more important than your ability to have healthcare.
posted by aramaic at 11:39 AM on July 9 [9 favorites]
The theoretical perfect is the mortal enemy of the achievable good.
Ergo, my ability to feel morally superior is more important than your ability to have healthcare.
posted by aramaic at 11:39 AM on July 9 [9 favorites]
The stuff about polling in the Slate article was interesting, too. Not saying it'll convince folks, but after being initially "wtf? why would anyone object to this?" like a lot of folks here, I can at least see a bit more of the counter-argument.
Tresa Undem, the co-founder of PerryUndem, a nonpartisan polling firm, has been tracking opinion on abortion for 20 years. She said that most abortion polling is notoriously one-dimensional, often asking voters to give a thumbs-up or thumbs-down to proposed restrictions with few follow-up questions (or open-ended prompts) that reveal any nuance. So, it gives her pause that a democracy group that doesn’t specifically have experience with polling on abortion is choosing ballot language based on what it believes is public sentiment. “If you’re basing your assumptions on these really one-dimensional questions, you could be getting it wrong,” she said...
Plus, wherever abortion has been on the ballot in the U.S. since the fall of Roe, it has won.
posted by mediareport at 11:40 AM on July 9 [4 favorites]
Tresa Undem, the co-founder of PerryUndem, a nonpartisan polling firm, has been tracking opinion on abortion for 20 years. She said that most abortion polling is notoriously one-dimensional, often asking voters to give a thumbs-up or thumbs-down to proposed restrictions with few follow-up questions (or open-ended prompts) that reveal any nuance. So, it gives her pause that a democracy group that doesn’t specifically have experience with polling on abortion is choosing ballot language based on what it believes is public sentiment. “If you’re basing your assumptions on these really one-dimensional questions, you could be getting it wrong,” she said...
Plus, wherever abortion has been on the ballot in the U.S. since the fall of Roe, it has won.
posted by mediareport at 11:40 AM on July 9 [4 favorites]
Tresa Undem, the co-founder of PerryUndem, a nonpartisan polling firm, has been tracking opinion on abortion for 20 years. She said that most abortion polling is notoriously one-dimensional, often asking voters to give a thumbs-up or thumbs-down to proposed restrictions with few follow-up questions (or open-ended prompts) that reveal any nuance. So, it gives her pause that a democracy group that doesn’t specifically have experience with polling on abortion is choosing ballot language based on what it believes is public sentiment.
This is very true. The whole debate about "exceptions" (rape, incest, the life of the mother) has been driven by polling for over 50 years. The General Social Survey put out by the National Opinion Research Center has used rape, incest, and the life of the mother as examples in its standard set of questions on abortion for decades. I presume these questions were originally developed, because it reflected the nature of the abortion debate before Roe v. Wade, but I believe that pollsters who focused on "exceptions" also unwittingly shaped the abortion debate after Roe v. Wade in a way that made "opposing abortion but supporting exceptions" sound moderate.
I think the major consequence of Dobbs is that the mushy central position of opposing abortion but supporting exceptions is no longer viewed as moderate. Women voters have rightfully felt entitled to having their reproductive rights, even if they privately had misgivings about abortion overall. Now that their reproductive rights are slowly being taken away, loss aversion kicks in & centrists are much less likely to make concessions that assume they will be adequately covered by exceptions in an anti-abortion law.
I think a lot of moderates who were looking for "common ground" on abortion in the 1990s and 2000s (e.g., William Saletan in Slate) assumed that anti-abortionists wouldn't go too far in making pregnant women in distress unable to take advantage of exceptions in the law. Now, I think those illusions are much more difficult to maintain & a lot of the general public who is less militant has finally caught on & are now moving to a fully libertarian "no restrictions" position on abortion.
Anyhow, there are decades of abortion polls & many of them make a lot of hair-splitting distinctions about when abortion should be allowed & they also have many variations in wording that totally change what people will support even if the underlying policy they support doesn't change. So that's probably why the pollster Undem quoted in the article has a problem with the group in Arkansas going forward without testing the nuances of their wording with polls, but I just assume that the Arkansas group couldn't afford both polling & getting the referendum at the same time.
posted by jonp72 at 12:14 PM on July 9 [4 favorites]
This is very true. The whole debate about "exceptions" (rape, incest, the life of the mother) has been driven by polling for over 50 years. The General Social Survey put out by the National Opinion Research Center has used rape, incest, and the life of the mother as examples in its standard set of questions on abortion for decades. I presume these questions were originally developed, because it reflected the nature of the abortion debate before Roe v. Wade, but I believe that pollsters who focused on "exceptions" also unwittingly shaped the abortion debate after Roe v. Wade in a way that made "opposing abortion but supporting exceptions" sound moderate.
I think the major consequence of Dobbs is that the mushy central position of opposing abortion but supporting exceptions is no longer viewed as moderate. Women voters have rightfully felt entitled to having their reproductive rights, even if they privately had misgivings about abortion overall. Now that their reproductive rights are slowly being taken away, loss aversion kicks in & centrists are much less likely to make concessions that assume they will be adequately covered by exceptions in an anti-abortion law.
I think a lot of moderates who were looking for "common ground" on abortion in the 1990s and 2000s (e.g., William Saletan in Slate) assumed that anti-abortionists wouldn't go too far in making pregnant women in distress unable to take advantage of exceptions in the law. Now, I think those illusions are much more difficult to maintain & a lot of the general public who is less militant has finally caught on & are now moving to a fully libertarian "no restrictions" position on abortion.
Anyhow, there are decades of abortion polls & many of them make a lot of hair-splitting distinctions about when abortion should be allowed & they also have many variations in wording that totally change what people will support even if the underlying policy they support doesn't change. So that's probably why the pollster Undem quoted in the article has a problem with the group in Arkansas going forward without testing the nuances of their wording with polls, but I just assume that the Arkansas group couldn't afford both polling & getting the referendum at the same time.
posted by jonp72 at 12:14 PM on July 9 [4 favorites]
Things like this make me vaguely hopeful.
One of my broad ruminations on politics and the rise of the right is that the centre-to-left folks do the vast bulk of the things that are required to make society function. We hold jobs, are content creators, volunteer, take on positions of responsibility, lead in our communities, and also do fun, cool creative things. We wear a lot of hats!
I think -- and this is just a feeling -- that a lot of the frothing, rabid traction around the right-wing is that they have nothing else going on in their lives. They aren't already busy leading theatre troupes and volunteering at food kitchens and painting paintings and holding jobs and paying taxes. They've got nothing to do but be rabid, regressive psychotics 24/7, watching Fox News and clogging up the Internet, plastering their houses and cars with TRUMP IS MY SAVIOUR signs and driving stupid trucks in circles honking a lot.
The hope is that the Left, who are normally very busy doing all the things, are finally sighing, putting down their normal responsibilities, and standing up to course-correct all this horseshit. The toddlers have been throwing a tantrum and finger-painting all over the walls while we've been busy doing the dishes, handling the laundry and prepping tomorrow's lunches, but now we're just going to have to take a break from these things and fucking sort this because shit's getting out of hand.
Maybe this is too optimistic, but I've definitely been feeling lately that while I spend a lot of time writing, volunteering, holding a job, paying my taxes and generally being a full-time Doing Things Society Needs to Function and Flourish person with my time, I might need to step back from some of my normal things to get more active because these fuckheads aren't going to un-fuckhead themselves.
And if a lot of people are getting to that point, maybe we'll see some big changes soon.
posted by Shepherd at 12:22 PM on July 9 [23 favorites]
One of my broad ruminations on politics and the rise of the right is that the centre-to-left folks do the vast bulk of the things that are required to make society function. We hold jobs, are content creators, volunteer, take on positions of responsibility, lead in our communities, and also do fun, cool creative things. We wear a lot of hats!
I think -- and this is just a feeling -- that a lot of the frothing, rabid traction around the right-wing is that they have nothing else going on in their lives. They aren't already busy leading theatre troupes and volunteering at food kitchens and painting paintings and holding jobs and paying taxes. They've got nothing to do but be rabid, regressive psychotics 24/7, watching Fox News and clogging up the Internet, plastering their houses and cars with TRUMP IS MY SAVIOUR signs and driving stupid trucks in circles honking a lot.
The hope is that the Left, who are normally very busy doing all the things, are finally sighing, putting down their normal responsibilities, and standing up to course-correct all this horseshit. The toddlers have been throwing a tantrum and finger-painting all over the walls while we've been busy doing the dishes, handling the laundry and prepping tomorrow's lunches, but now we're just going to have to take a break from these things and fucking sort this because shit's getting out of hand.
Maybe this is too optimistic, but I've definitely been feeling lately that while I spend a lot of time writing, volunteering, holding a job, paying my taxes and generally being a full-time Doing Things Society Needs to Function and Flourish person with my time, I might need to step back from some of my normal things to get more active because these fuckheads aren't going to un-fuckhead themselves.
And if a lot of people are getting to that point, maybe we'll see some big changes soon.
posted by Shepherd at 12:22 PM on July 9 [23 favorites]
The Slate article in the post has a lot of interesting criticisms of the referendum's arbitrary 18-week cutoff
Just want to note there that according to the original post, the 18 week limit will encompass 99% of abortions.
Not to mention, if women have easy, safe, and affordable access to care, in general a later cutoff doesn't matter, because women will seek care earlier rather than later. The care just needs to be available.
posted by anastasiav at 3:25 PM on July 9 [5 favorites]
Just want to note there that according to the original post, the 18 week limit will encompass 99% of abortions.
Not to mention, if women have easy, safe, and affordable access to care, in general a later cutoff doesn't matter, because women will seek care earlier rather than later. The care just needs to be available.
posted by anastasiav at 3:25 PM on July 9 [5 favorites]
JFC, Patient Forward isn't some nosy gadfly fucking up the folks in Arkansas in their efforts, it exists trying to facilitate reproductive rights, including abortions for women. She was asked her organization's position, she thinks the 18 week cutoff is harmful for women for a variety of reasons (which I am in no place to judge) and gave that info to the Slate writer.
If the posting was about organizations trying to protect and facilitate abortion rights ya'll would be praising orgs like hers, and wouldn't be saying things like 'if she doesn't like it she should just move there' and 'left eats its own'.
Damn this place sometimes.....
posted by WatTylerJr at 3:50 PM on July 9 [1 favorite]
If the posting was about organizations trying to protect and facilitate abortion rights ya'll would be praising orgs like hers, and wouldn't be saying things like 'if she doesn't like it she should just move there' and 'left eats its own'.
Damn this place sometimes.....
posted by WatTylerJr at 3:50 PM on July 9 [1 favorite]
I think -- and this is just a feeling -- that a lot of the frothing, rabid traction around the right-wing is that they have nothing else going on in their lives. They aren't already busy leading theatre troupes and volunteering at food kitchens and painting paintings and holding jobs and paying taxes. They've got nothing to do but be rabid, regressive psychotics 24/7, watching Fox News and clogging up the Internet, plastering their houses and cars with TRUMP IS MY SAVIOUR signs and driving stupid trucks in circles honking a lot.
Animated liminal space
posted by JoeXIII007 at 4:06 PM on July 9
Animated liminal space
posted by JoeXIII007 at 4:06 PM on July 9
If I were in Arkansas, I absolutely would vote for this and sing praises for those who accomplished it. But I also recognize it has issues that will require the anti-abortion side to hopefully allow as physician discretion.
To be pendantic because this is an issue important to me, the 18 wks cut off should allow for the vast majority of elective, non-medically indicated abortions however seeking earlier care may not help for terminations due to fetal anomaly or maternal health. IME in my previous career, those tend to be diagnosed mid-late gestation. And while rare in the overall incidence, Texas recently reported that infant deaths due to lethal anomalies increased almost 13%, likely related to pregnancies going to term instead of having the option to terminate. Neonatal surgeries and other complex care also increased. I'm not going to speak for maternal health issues because those are incredibly nuanced.
And if fetal anomalies are not detected until a 16-18 wk ultrasound and the abortion is to be completed by 18w0, there is very little time to spare to think it over or get genetic testing completed or get a second opinion, especially if travel or state-mandated education requirements exist. Some women actually "pre-schedule" abortions in such situations and that's a whole different set of issues.
Re the woman who had her termination at 32 wks and thought this legislation wouldn't help, she's right that it wouldn't. But even pre-Dobbs, terminations at that stage were only done at a few select sites nation-wide, one of which was Kansas and I think that drives their awareness and support for abortion rights. But that's a whole different post.
posted by beaning at 4:08 PM on July 9 [5 favorites]
To be pendantic because this is an issue important to me, the 18 wks cut off should allow for the vast majority of elective, non-medically indicated abortions however seeking earlier care may not help for terminations due to fetal anomaly or maternal health. IME in my previous career, those tend to be diagnosed mid-late gestation. And while rare in the overall incidence, Texas recently reported that infant deaths due to lethal anomalies increased almost 13%, likely related to pregnancies going to term instead of having the option to terminate. Neonatal surgeries and other complex care also increased. I'm not going to speak for maternal health issues because those are incredibly nuanced.
And if fetal anomalies are not detected until a 16-18 wk ultrasound and the abortion is to be completed by 18w0, there is very little time to spare to think it over or get genetic testing completed or get a second opinion, especially if travel or state-mandated education requirements exist. Some women actually "pre-schedule" abortions in such situations and that's a whole different set of issues.
Re the woman who had her termination at 32 wks and thought this legislation wouldn't help, she's right that it wouldn't. But even pre-Dobbs, terminations at that stage were only done at a few select sites nation-wide, one of which was Kansas and I think that drives their awareness and support for abortion rights. But that's a whole different post.
posted by beaning at 4:08 PM on July 9 [5 favorites]
One of my broad ruminations on politics and the rise of the right is that the centre-to-left folks do the vast bulk of the things that are required to make society function. We hold jobs, are content creators...
The left really doeseat its own jerk itself off sometimes.
Seriously, my friend, there are many many many trumpy people out there that are doing highly fucking useful work so that we leftoids can make our youtubes and run local theatres. I kinda doubt we could just thanatos that half of the USA away without feeling some hurt at the Whole Foods.
Good job, Arkansas folks.
posted by Sauce Trough at 4:35 PM on July 9 [5 favorites]
The left really does
Seriously, my friend, there are many many many trumpy people out there that are doing highly fucking useful work so that we leftoids can make our youtubes and run local theatres. I kinda doubt we could just thanatos that half of the USA away without feeling some hurt at the Whole Foods.
Good job, Arkansas folks.
posted by Sauce Trough at 4:35 PM on July 9 [5 favorites]
Indeed, it is a baby step (thank you for highlighting that fact, bq) that should be recognized and applauded.
Also, I agree with those upthread who do not support an arbitrary cutoff—even at 18 weeks. Having worked at an abortion clinic and a volunteer as a patient escort, I am concerned about the women whose wanted pregnancies threaten their life or that of their fetus and the very young girls unaware of pregnancies for various reasons* until they are too far along in the pregnancy. The need of these vulnerable women and girls for abortions will mostly be beyond 18 weeks.
*some reasons = irregular periods, uneducated about body changes, fear of reaction of parents or other older/authority figures in their lives (one of whom may have been their rapist)
posted by Scout405 at 6:40 PM on July 9 [1 favorite]
Also, I agree with those upthread who do not support an arbitrary cutoff—even at 18 weeks. Having worked at an abortion clinic and a volunteer as a patient escort, I am concerned about the women whose wanted pregnancies threaten their life or that of their fetus and the very young girls unaware of pregnancies for various reasons* until they are too far along in the pregnancy. The need of these vulnerable women and girls for abortions will mostly be beyond 18 weeks.
*some reasons = irregular periods, uneducated about body changes, fear of reaction of parents or other older/authority figures in their lives (one of whom may have been their rapist)
posted by Scout405 at 6:40 PM on July 9 [1 favorite]
they aren't...holding jobs...
We're hiring at work, and the number of unemployed software techs that fill their Facebook with right wing, antivax, anti-immigrant stuff is way too high. Oh, not just Facebook - if you've got this stuff on your LinkedIn profile (which I have encountered) , I just don't know what to think about you.
posted by AzraelBrown at 5:12 AM on July 10
We're hiring at work, and the number of unemployed software techs that fill their Facebook with right wing, antivax, anti-immigrant stuff is way too high. Oh, not just Facebook - if you've got this stuff on your LinkedIn profile (which I have encountered) , I just don't know what to think about you.
posted by AzraelBrown at 5:12 AM on July 10
From the Arkansas Times article linked above, the forced birth group is deploying typical right wing tactics of insane lies and implicit terrorism:
"Jerry Cox, leader of the anti-abortion Family Council of Arkansas, was one of dozens of anti-abortion activists also packing the halls at the Capitol Friday. Members of the group carried hexagonal signs saying “STOP, Don’t be fooled, Arkansas Abortion Amendment is abortion up to birth.”
Last month the Family Council printed the names and home cities of the paid canvassers for the Arkansas Abortion Amendment."
posted by Sublimity at 5:17 AM on July 10 [2 favorites]
"Jerry Cox, leader of the anti-abortion Family Council of Arkansas, was one of dozens of anti-abortion activists also packing the halls at the Capitol Friday. Members of the group carried hexagonal signs saying “STOP, Don’t be fooled, Arkansas Abortion Amendment is abortion up to birth.”
Last month the Family Council printed the names and home cities of the paid canvassers for the Arkansas Abortion Amendment."
posted by Sublimity at 5:17 AM on July 10 [2 favorites]
She was asked her organization's position, she thinks the 18 week cutoff is harmful for women for a variety of reasons (which I am in no place to judge) and gave that info to the Slate writer.
And while doing that, she called the (mainly) women organizing the efforts in Arkansas cowards and essentially blamed *them* for any bad outcomes that would result, rather than the people who passed the abortion ban in the first place.
Just saying 'hey, this doesn't go far enough to protect everyone and Arkansas's most vulnerable are the most at risk' wouldn't have raised the reaction from me that her actual comments did. I probably would have applauded that and wondered how the Arkansas organizers could take that next step.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:55 AM on July 10 [3 favorites]
And while doing that, she called the (mainly) women organizing the efforts in Arkansas cowards and essentially blamed *them* for any bad outcomes that would result, rather than the people who passed the abortion ban in the first place.
Just saying 'hey, this doesn't go far enough to protect everyone and Arkansas's most vulnerable are the most at risk' wouldn't have raised the reaction from me that her actual comments did. I probably would have applauded that and wondered how the Arkansas organizers could take that next step.
posted by jacquilynne at 5:55 AM on July 10 [3 favorites]
“the Arkansas proposal would “ensure the most under-resourced and over-policed members of their communities bear the brunt of their political cowardice.”
Please note that ‘their’ is not a referred pronoun in the above quote, which Slate is at fault for.
posted by bq at 7:22 AM on July 10
Please note that ‘their’ is not a referred pronoun in the above quote, which Slate is at fault for.
posted by bq at 7:22 AM on July 10
I don't know what a referred pronoun is and therefore am not sure I know what you mean.
Are you saying that she didn't necessarily say that the people pushing the 18 week referendum were the cowards but Slate might have made it look like she said that? If so, the Slate writer must have really had it in for that particular person, because they also quote her as using the term "willfully ignorant" in a way that seems to describe the Arkansas group and their ballot proposal.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:07 AM on July 10
Are you saying that she didn't necessarily say that the people pushing the 18 week referendum were the cowards but Slate might have made it look like she said that? If so, the Slate writer must have really had it in for that particular person, because they also quote her as using the term "willfully ignorant" in a way that seems to describe the Arkansas group and their ballot proposal.
posted by jacquilynne at 8:07 AM on July 10
I’m sure Slate wanted a piece that would attract attention and that if they deliberately misquoted this person it was probably more about that than about a beef.
A ‘referred pronoun’ is a pronoun where it is clear who the pronoun is referring to. ‘Bob is nice, I like him’ - the pronoun ‘him’ clearly refers to Bob. But since I’m the quote that contains the word ‘cowardice’ the first part of the sentence is missing, it’s not clear who ‘their cowardice’ refers to. Is it the organizers of the petition? Is it the people of Arkansas? Is it the communities whose members are mentioned? It’s impossible to know, although the article clearly implies that the speaker is referring to the petition organizers, which is the most inflammatory interpretation….which therefore makes me distrust it.
posted by bq at 8:23 AM on July 10
A ‘referred pronoun’ is a pronoun where it is clear who the pronoun is referring to. ‘Bob is nice, I like him’ - the pronoun ‘him’ clearly refers to Bob. But since I’m the quote that contains the word ‘cowardice’ the first part of the sentence is missing, it’s not clear who ‘their cowardice’ refers to. Is it the organizers of the petition? Is it the people of Arkansas? Is it the communities whose members are mentioned? It’s impossible to know, although the article clearly implies that the speaker is referring to the petition organizers, which is the most inflammatory interpretation….which therefore makes me distrust it.
posted by bq at 8:23 AM on July 10
One of my friends was involved in this and really worked to get signatures. I'm glad to see it paid off.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 9:01 AM on July 10 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 9:01 AM on July 10 [1 favorite]
Secretary of State disqualifies Arkansas Abortion Amendment from ballot on technicality
posted by box at 12:57 PM on July 10
posted by box at 12:57 PM on July 10
Same story, except from Axios Northwest Arkansas
If the Secretary of State's office claims that it did not receive the names of the paid canvassers, it makes me wonder how the Family Council obtained them.
posted by box at 2:27 PM on July 10 [1 favorite]
If the Secretary of State's office claims that it did not receive the names of the paid canvassers, it makes me wonder how the Family Council obtained them.
posted by box at 2:27 PM on July 10 [1 favorite]
Sympathy and respect to all who worked to support this bill and sad for those who would have benefits from it. I hope an appeals is possible for this year's election but more likely it will be 2026.
posted by beaning at 3:19 PM on July 10 [2 favorites]
posted by beaning at 3:19 PM on July 10 [2 favorites]
And regardless of what is said about state's rights on this issue, this type of gamesmanship just proves the value of a national standard.
posted by beaning at 3:19 PM on July 10 [4 favorites]
posted by beaning at 3:19 PM on July 10 [4 favorites]
More reporting from Axios:
"At multiple junctures — including on July 5 inside of the Capitol Building — we discussed signature submission requirements with the Secretary of State's staff," Arkansans for Limited Government (AFLG) said in a statement emailed late Wednesday.posted by box at 4:47 AM on July 11 [3 favorites]
The secretary of state's office supplied the organization with all paperwork to submit the petitions, AFLG said, adding that the group had no reason to suspect it was incomplete.
AFLG says it supplied a list of paid canvassers to the state, and that's known because it was obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request to the Secretary of State's office and "released by our opposition in an attempt to intimidate our supporters."
And Arkansas Advocate (nonprofit journalism), with more from the AFLG statement:
“Asserting now that we didn’t provide required documentation regarding paid canvassers is absurd and demonstrably, undeniably incorrect,” the statement reads. “Arkansas law does not empower the Secretary of State to make an unfounded legal interpretation, which is what he did today by summarily declaring that we have not completed the steps for qualification.”posted by box at 6:41 AM on July 11 [3 favorites]
the value of a national standard
The national standard is none, never ever, thank you for being suitably White and Pentecostal/Southern Baptist.
...also, because you have contemplated the obverse, that must necessarily mean that you are not a Loyal Patriot and therefore your vote doesn't count. Please deliver yourself to Louisiana State Penitentiary (Angola) for suitable punishment. That you are not a resident of Louisiana is, again, a violation on your part. Please correct your residence(s) in future, thank you.
posted by aramaic at 6:46 PM on July 11
The national standard is none, never ever, thank you for being suitably White and Pentecostal/Southern Baptist.
...also, because you have contemplated the obverse, that must necessarily mean that you are not a Loyal Patriot and therefore your vote doesn't count. Please deliver yourself to Louisiana State Penitentiary (Angola) for suitable punishment. That you are not a resident of Louisiana is, again, a violation on your part. Please correct your residence(s) in future, thank you.
posted by aramaic at 6:46 PM on July 11
Oh man this is such bullshit. Reminds me of Wendy Davis’s filibuster in Texas and how the speaker of the house tried to pull some shit that they passed the bill earlier than they actually did. (Reality did win this time and the bill didn’t pass. Another special session had to be called).
Fuckin repubs are so shitty with their attempts to not follow the rules. Hopefully this one is not successful.
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:00 PM on July 11 [1 favorite]
Fuckin repubs are so shitty with their attempts to not follow the rules. Hopefully this one is not successful.
posted by LizBoBiz at 7:00 PM on July 11 [1 favorite]
Newly released records raise questions about secretary of state’s rejection of abortion amendment (Arkansas Times)
posted by box at 5:56 AM on July 12 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 5:56 AM on July 12 [1 favorite]
Whiplash: why the Arkansas Abortion Amendment might still be in play (Arkansas Times)
posted by box at 2:21 PM on July 12 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 2:21 PM on July 12 [2 favorites]
The 4 legal questions that will decide the fate of Arkansas’s abortion rights ballot initiative
posted by box at 5:03 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 5:03 PM on July 15 [2 favorites]
Arkansas group sues over abortion amendment rejection (Axios NWA (that's what people in Arkansas call Northwest Arkansas. I was not consulted on this decision))
posted by box at 11:52 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 11:52 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
I just learned Gilead is the name of a major US pharmaceutical company, maybe that name rings bells. lol
Interestingly, they recently invented an HIV pseudo-vaccine, for which they charge over $40,000 a year, but could still sell profitably for much much less. They charge so much because they do not want to treat too many people, since if their treatment whiped out HIV then they'd earn less money from it. Go USA!
posted by jeffburdges at 3:44 PM on July 23
Interestingly, they recently invented an HIV pseudo-vaccine, for which they charge over $40,000 a year, but could still sell profitably for much much less. They charge so much because they do not want to treat too many people, since if their treatment whiped out HIV then they'd earn less money from it. Go USA!
posted by jeffburdges at 3:44 PM on July 23
Arkansas Supreme Court orders count of abortion amendment signatures (Arkansas Advocate)
posted by box at 6:08 AM on July 24 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 6:08 AM on July 24 [2 favorites]
jeffburdges: I think calling lenacapavir a "pseudo-vaccine" has all sorts of unfortunate connotations. It's a great drug; it's basically a six-month injection of PrEP. (Also it should definitely not be $40K, obviously.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:49 AM on July 24 [1 favorite]
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:49 AM on July 24 [1 favorite]
State Supreme Court won't dismiss abortion petitioners' lawsuit, for now (Arkansas Times)
posted by box at 5:47 AM on July 27
posted by box at 5:47 AM on July 27
Asked whether Arkansans for Limited Government can now collect signatures in anticipation of a possible cure period down the road, Land [spokesperson for Arkansas Secretary of State John Thurston’s office] said nothing in the statute precludes them from doing so.This bit at the bottom seems most important. ALG can go ahead collecting signatures before they know if they'll be admitted meaning Thurston won't be able to run out the cure clock.
posted by Mitheral at 9:09 AM on July 27 [2 favorites]
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