"As we scroll, they feast."
July 16, 2024 6:58 AM Subscribe
Roxane Gay on the addictive effect of TikTok. (slTheBitterSoutherner)
The attention economy was ramping up with advent of YouTube and twitch streamers, but tiktok truly democratized it. After seeing pictures of homes and apartments in China and LA packed with young people working in content farms, I've wanted to read articles from people who've worked on the "slaughterhouse floors", so to speak.
It's pruerient, I know, but I feel like their perspectives could be more interesting.
posted by tedious at 7:54 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
It's pruerient, I know, but I feel like their perspectives could be more interesting.
posted by tedious at 7:54 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
I thought they banned that and we were free from it now. I'm grateful to have never gotten sucked into it. Youtube reels are the closest thing and I have caught myself wasting an hour just scrolling the dumbest little videos. It never feels good afterwards, like time just slipped away without anything happening, whereas even if I was just watching normal length videos it wouldn't feel that way.
posted by GoblinHoney at 8:03 AM on July 16 [9 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 8:03 AM on July 16 [9 favorites]
Sometimes I do this with Instagram (TikTok never did it for me) and I literally have a voice in my head saying stop it, stop it, you’re doing it again. Which I do, eventually. Which is good, I guess. It’s like eating chips.
posted by gottabefunky at 8:17 AM on July 16 [5 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 8:17 AM on July 16 [5 favorites]
Never used TikTok and never will but I've tried to mindlessly scroll on Instagram. But the algorithm they use is so terrible I can only scroll through about half a dozen things before it all becomes stuff I don't care about. No I don't care about cycling. No I don't care about the Smashing Pumpkins. No I don't care about home renovations. I don't know why Instagram associates these things with me but that's 80% of my feed. Even telling it to never show me a specific account again doesn't work and it'll be right there again the next day.
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:22 AM on July 16 [1 favorite]
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:22 AM on July 16 [1 favorite]
I definitely scroll through TikTok and Tumblr and Instagram, but I honestly seem to get more addicted to sites with mostly text. I'm on Metafilter and Reddit, and also Caroline Hax and Ask a Manager, way too much. But it's all the same addiction, just different forms.
posted by PussKillian at 8:54 AM on July 16 [10 favorites]
posted by PussKillian at 8:54 AM on July 16 [10 favorites]
I just permanently blocked youtube.com/shorts using an in-browser blocker, because it was fucking up my life! If I was on tik-tok or any other scrolling dopamine machine on a browser..... I would do the same!
If you have timesuck/bad website URLs you want to block for defined periods of time , I highly recommend these apps :
SelfControl for macs: https://selfcontrolapp.com/
Coldturkey for PCs: https://getcoldturkey.com/
posted by lalochezia at 9:01 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
If you have timesuck/bad website URLs you want to block for defined periods of time , I highly recommend these apps :
SelfControl for macs: https://selfcontrolapp.com/
Coldturkey for PCs: https://getcoldturkey.com/
posted by lalochezia at 9:01 AM on July 16 [2 favorites]
desire satiated immediately and thinly
That is a great phrase, very evocative.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:01 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
That is a great phrase, very evocative.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:01 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
"Nothing is sacred and everything is scalable"
Besides being a tremendous line in and of itself, that's the ethos of the current curators of the Internet in a nutshell.
posted by giantrobothead at 9:04 AM on July 16 [1 favorite]
Besides being a tremendous line in and of itself, that's the ethos of the current curators of the Internet in a nutshell.
posted by giantrobothead at 9:04 AM on July 16 [1 favorite]
I'm a text scroller too. I just can't seem to get addicted to video content but I can scroll text based social media for hours. I set myself a daily half hour app time limit for Bluesky and it's helped a lot.
posted by potrzebie at 9:04 AM on July 16 [5 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 9:04 AM on July 16 [5 favorites]
There's the time suck aspect of TikTok, which is insidious, but there's also the vast amount of garbage content ready to persuade to do things that are against your better interest (as an example - all the weird health "hacks").
posted by Ashwagandha at 9:14 AM on July 16 [1 favorite]
posted by Ashwagandha at 9:14 AM on July 16 [1 favorite]
Back when, I used to channel surf cable, for hours on end, not actually consuming any particular show or move in it's entirety. How I've avoided getting sucked into "new" media is baffling, but welcome
posted by Gorgik at 9:36 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
posted by Gorgik at 9:36 AM on July 16 [3 favorites]
I had to ban TikTok "recipes" for similar reasons. If the kid can present me with an actual recipe with an ingredient list and preparation instructions we will try it, no questions asked. But what passes for "omg soooo good" on TikTok drives me nuts.
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:05 AM on July 16
posted by JoeZydeco at 10:05 AM on July 16
The TikTok introduced me to Carter Vail, aka The Dirt Man. It introduced me to the Trans Handymam . My life is better for both.
Then it tries to show me a pirated movie with a token person in the corner pointing like they are reacting, but it was clearly mass generated spam.
It tries to sell me:
A mattress designed for big people who like to have vigorous sex. (Their words. )
Robot litter boxes
The algorithm is a land of contrasts.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by funkaspuck at 10:05 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
Then it tries to show me a pirated movie with a token person in the corner pointing like they are reacting, but it was clearly mass generated spam.
It tries to sell me:
A mattress designed for big people who like to have vigorous sex. (Their words. )
Robot litter boxes
The algorithm is a land of contrasts.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by funkaspuck at 10:05 AM on July 16 [6 favorites]
I was just having a conversation about The Internet And Why It Is Bad last night, and we settled on the fact that while the internet is various and complex, it's only various and complex within certain limits, all marketized. So obviously you can get the same dopamine hit over and over and over very fast until it totally wears off, which is bad in itself, and also the stimuli you get are so limited and flat that you lose observational skills and the ability to react to the genuinely novel or unexpected.
Like, you might go to the record shop in search of the thrill of finding a particular album, or the thrill of finding an unexpected album. You'd get a lot of sensory input from all directions and you would have to respond to things in real time in diverse ways, and although you are going to the record shop, you're also encountering a lot of stuff that isn't about sales (people on the sidewalk or street, birds, sounds, random stuff, etc). Something bad might happen - you might get into a conflict or witness something unsettling, or the clerk might be an asshole and you'd have to respond. You'd have to read the complex cues of other people's body language and tone, manage transit to the store, etc. All this stuff is pretty ordinary but it is much more complex than the stimulus you get on the internet. It's also richly satisfying in a complex way even if it's sometimes stressful, the way that a hike in a beautiful park is more satisfying than a session on the elliptical even if you come back tireder.
And yet, of course, the internet is funner, at least to your conscious mind, because it gives you exactly what you want over and over and over and over, and since you've already lost some skill with and pleasure in complex environments by being on the internet, the internet feels better. You're a skilled internet user, as well, because you spend so much time there.
It's extremely unfortunate, because there's lots of good stuff on the internet, and if you could limit your use a bit without too much effort, it would be amazing.
~~
Further, almost everyone has the option of at least some complex non-internet interaction. Some people are stuck more or less in a room, or in bed, and the complexities of the internet are lightyears better than just sitting there, I'm not knocking that. But if you're choosing between a richer environment and the internet, the richer environment is harder to deal with but more rewarding, assuming that you also have the internet for moderate use.
posted by Frowner at 10:15 AM on July 16 [14 favorites]
Like, you might go to the record shop in search of the thrill of finding a particular album, or the thrill of finding an unexpected album. You'd get a lot of sensory input from all directions and you would have to respond to things in real time in diverse ways, and although you are going to the record shop, you're also encountering a lot of stuff that isn't about sales (people on the sidewalk or street, birds, sounds, random stuff, etc). Something bad might happen - you might get into a conflict or witness something unsettling, or the clerk might be an asshole and you'd have to respond. You'd have to read the complex cues of other people's body language and tone, manage transit to the store, etc. All this stuff is pretty ordinary but it is much more complex than the stimulus you get on the internet. It's also richly satisfying in a complex way even if it's sometimes stressful, the way that a hike in a beautiful park is more satisfying than a session on the elliptical even if you come back tireder.
And yet, of course, the internet is funner, at least to your conscious mind, because it gives you exactly what you want over and over and over and over, and since you've already lost some skill with and pleasure in complex environments by being on the internet, the internet feels better. You're a skilled internet user, as well, because you spend so much time there.
It's extremely unfortunate, because there's lots of good stuff on the internet, and if you could limit your use a bit without too much effort, it would be amazing.
~~
Further, almost everyone has the option of at least some complex non-internet interaction. Some people are stuck more or less in a room, or in bed, and the complexities of the internet are lightyears better than just sitting there, I'm not knocking that. But if you're choosing between a richer environment and the internet, the richer environment is harder to deal with but more rewarding, assuming that you also have the internet for moderate use.
posted by Frowner at 10:15 AM on July 16 [14 favorites]
while the internet is various and complex, it's only various and complex within certain limits, all marketized
And the variety becomes kind of the same. I spend way too much time on instagram and the formats are so repetitive:
- POV (which is often not a first person view, therefore not point of view at all!)
- my biggest flex is
- try this:
- me when somebody blah blah blahs
I feel lucky in a way that instagram is so boring, at a certain point I look back in my texts and start trying to think of funny things to text my friends. I spend a lot of time rocking a baby and it's hard to hold up a book in one hand, so.
posted by Emmy Rae at 10:58 AM on July 16
And the variety becomes kind of the same. I spend way too much time on instagram and the formats are so repetitive:
- POV (which is often not a first person view, therefore not point of view at all!)
- my biggest flex is
- try this:
- me when somebody blah blah blahs
I feel lucky in a way that instagram is so boring, at a certain point I look back in my texts and start trying to think of funny things to text my friends. I spend a lot of time rocking a baby and it's hard to hold up a book in one hand, so.
posted by Emmy Rae at 10:58 AM on July 16
Scrolling video is my nemesis.
Tik tok is great in that it won't let you keep looking at videos without an account, so I've been saved from the mindless scroll there. The arrogance of "oh no, I don't have tik tok" was the pride that came before the fall.
I discovered that I let my guard down with Facebook reels, which is the same sort of thing. The insidious bit about Facebook reels is that you can't pause, and it will reload or scroll on if you leave it too long, so you have to give it all your attention, if you want to see videos all the way through. I found myself being cranky at my family for interrupting silly videos. This is backwards to the values I actually hold! (I've come back to this comment at least three times, while I can be addicted/absorbed in text websites like Reddit or metafilter, I can much more easily put it down in favour of the real world.)
I've done an experiment this past month where I've logged out of Facebook, to break the pattern of slipping into the mindless scroll. I still use the "friendly" app to check my messages (mums group still is on messenger) but I've found that my life and mental health is much better. I've probably increased my metafilter and Reddit use to fill the hole, but contributing on parenting forums and here on mefi feels much more valuable than being a passive dopamine consumer.
posted by freethefeet at 6:02 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]
Tik tok is great in that it won't let you keep looking at videos without an account, so I've been saved from the mindless scroll there. The arrogance of "oh no, I don't have tik tok" was the pride that came before the fall.
I discovered that I let my guard down with Facebook reels, which is the same sort of thing. The insidious bit about Facebook reels is that you can't pause, and it will reload or scroll on if you leave it too long, so you have to give it all your attention, if you want to see videos all the way through. I found myself being cranky at my family for interrupting silly videos. This is backwards to the values I actually hold! (I've come back to this comment at least three times, while I can be addicted/absorbed in text websites like Reddit or metafilter, I can much more easily put it down in favour of the real world.)
I've done an experiment this past month where I've logged out of Facebook, to break the pattern of slipping into the mindless scroll. I still use the "friendly" app to check my messages (mums group still is on messenger) but I've found that my life and mental health is much better. I've probably increased my metafilter and Reddit use to fill the hole, but contributing on parenting forums and here on mefi feels much more valuable than being a passive dopamine consumer.
posted by freethefeet at 6:02 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]
> The insidious bit about Facebook reels is that you can't pause, and it will reload or scroll on if you leave it too long, so you have to give it all your attentio The insidious bit about Facebook reels is that you can't pause, and it will reload or scroll on if you leave it too long, so you have to give it all your attention
Goddamn that is insanely insidious. Someone whose bonus is tied to “increasing engagement” made a *ton* of money off of that.
posted by egypturnash at 8:39 PM on July 16
Goddamn that is insanely insidious. Someone whose bonus is tied to “increasing engagement” made a *ton* of money off of that.
posted by egypturnash at 8:39 PM on July 16
Yeah I am in the same no-TikTok account no problems club, plus my YouTube account is set to store no history so the shorts don't even load.
Buut. I'm not logged into YouTube on my phone, so the home page does load. And I clicked on one short video. Three weeks later and I've watched a shit ton of cow hooves and people getting ready to go out. And Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro.
Even if you're watching in the browser, not logged in, they still use the anonymous cookie to build an algorithm for you and even though you can't like or dislike stuff the very act of watching a video biases the algorithm.
I'm off it now but man it really is addictive. And like addictions it's mostly harmful and unfulfilling.
posted by benoliver999 at 12:21 AM on July 17
Buut. I'm not logged into YouTube on my phone, so the home page does load. And I clicked on one short video. Three weeks later and I've watched a shit ton of cow hooves and people getting ready to go out. And Joe Rogan and Ben Shapiro.
Even if you're watching in the browser, not logged in, they still use the anonymous cookie to build an algorithm for you and even though you can't like or dislike stuff the very act of watching a video biases the algorithm.
I'm off it now but man it really is addictive. And like addictions it's mostly harmful and unfulfilling.
posted by benoliver999 at 12:21 AM on July 17
a shit ton of cow hooves
Excellent username up for grabs!
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:26 AM on July 17 [1 favorite]
Excellent username up for grabs!
posted by Greg_Ace at 8:26 AM on July 17 [1 favorite]
I think Metafilter is showing its age here in the comments. It can absolutely be a time suck rabbit hole, but I love TikTok. I’ve learned a ton about the world as things are happening, it’s opened my eyes to different layers of social justice intersectionality that I knew existed but didn’t realize just how interrelated they were, it helps me feel not so alone when living a COVID-conscious lifestyle in a society determined to forget that we’re still in a pandemic, it helps me practice foreign languages in a delightful way, and it has helped me more than therapy when it comes to dealing with my emotionally immature boomer parents.
I use the “like” button to make a curated list of videos to watch again with my pre-teen son (mostly cats, cool international travel, and random funny things), and it’s fun to connect and see what he thinks is funny or interesting on any given day (sometimes he is bewildered that I thought he would enjoy a particular video).
Just like any social media platform, the algorithm can steer people in harmful directions, but just a little bit of customizing has turned my Reddit into gardening and Kdrama Reddit, my Instagram into native plant and local business/government/farmers market Instagram, and my TikTok into a delightful place to spend 10 minutes while waiting for my pasta to cook or 15 minutes while doing my middle-aged lady physical therapy exercises.
posted by Maarika at 10:40 AM on July 17 [1 favorite]
I use the “like” button to make a curated list of videos to watch again with my pre-teen son (mostly cats, cool international travel, and random funny things), and it’s fun to connect and see what he thinks is funny or interesting on any given day (sometimes he is bewildered that I thought he would enjoy a particular video).
Just like any social media platform, the algorithm can steer people in harmful directions, but just a little bit of customizing has turned my Reddit into gardening and Kdrama Reddit, my Instagram into native plant and local business/government/farmers market Instagram, and my TikTok into a delightful place to spend 10 minutes while waiting for my pasta to cook or 15 minutes while doing my middle-aged lady physical therapy exercises.
posted by Maarika at 10:40 AM on July 17 [1 favorite]
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A quote from George Monbiot's fantastic piece, "Addicted to Comfort....Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chainstores." almost a decade old
posted by lalochezia at 7:19 AM on July 16 [9 favorites]