I wonder, boy...
July 16, 2024 2:02 PM Subscribe
Tenacious D’s Kyle Gass Dropped by Agent After Controversial Comments Tenacious D’s Kyle Gass has been dropped by his talent agent, Michael Greene of Greene Talent, following his joke about Trump. “We have parted ways after what happened in Sydney,” Greene said.
Jack Black, in his statement, said, “I was blindsided by what was said at the show on Sunday. I would never condone hate speech or encourage political violence in any form. After much reflection, I no longer feel it is appropriate to continue the Tenacious D tour, and all future creative plans are on hold. I am grateful to the fans for their support and understanding."
Jack Black, in his statement, said, “I was blindsided by what was said at the show on Sunday. I would never condone hate speech or encourage political violence in any form. After much reflection, I no longer feel it is appropriate to continue the Tenacious D tour, and all future creative plans are on hold. I am grateful to the fans for their support and understanding."
I agree with Jack Black here. This isn't "We're ashamed the President is from Texas...” territory.
posted by torokunai at 2:06 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
posted by torokunai at 2:06 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
It's a bright red line, advocating for death, that many people will not step over, because there there be tygers. Kyle was a fool, and he's not alone - there are a bunch of stories of people getting fired / resigning / whatever because they either explicitly or implicitly advocated for death.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:10 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:10 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
It's in the main link, but here's Kyle Gass's apology on Instagram, posted an hour after Jack Black's note:
The line I improvised onstage Sunday night in Sydney was highly inappropriate, dangerous and a terrible mistake. I don’t condone violence of any kind, in any form, against anyone. What happened was a tragedy, and I’m incredibly sorry for my severe lack of judgement. I profoundly apologize to those I’ve let down and truly regret any pain I’ve caused.
At least one Australian senator issued a letter calling for them to be immediately deported, so I can see why Black might want to get ahead of it.
posted by mediareport at 2:11 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
The line I improvised onstage Sunday night in Sydney was highly inappropriate, dangerous and a terrible mistake. I don’t condone violence of any kind, in any form, against anyone. What happened was a tragedy, and I’m incredibly sorry for my severe lack of judgement. I profoundly apologize to those I’ve let down and truly regret any pain I’ve caused.
At least one Australian senator issued a letter calling for them to be immediately deported, so I can see why Black might want to get ahead of it.
posted by mediareport at 2:11 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
Thinking about what Kyle said makes me wish God wasn’t a Republican.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 2:21 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 2:21 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
I mean there’s no God, but if there is they literally gave Trump a clip round the ear, so I’d hardly think they’re on his side.
posted by edd at 2:30 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
posted by edd at 2:30 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
On the one hand, it’s something I would not say at work, on the other, my work isn’t being a rockstar doing wild shit. I wouldn’t be surprised to learn there have been cracks beneath the surface between the D, and this is a convenient opportunity to make a break.
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:33 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:33 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
If he'd made the joke in private to friends that would be one thing but on stage that is an extremely irresponsible thing to do. The band can take a break for a while and then decide where they want to go from there.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:36 PM on July 16 [12 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:36 PM on July 16 [12 favorites]
I'd respect Black's statement more if it at least contained some language characterizing the quip as an obvious but ill-advised joke that he—Jack Black—in no way condones. That would at least extend some grace towards his long-time artistic partner and (I assumed?) friend Kyle Gass.
Instead, this just reads like a rich, famous guy throwing his less rich and famous pal under the bus in order to salvage his own lucrative career making mostly crappy comedies.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:42 PM on July 16 [75 favorites]
Instead, this just reads like a rich, famous guy throwing his less rich and famous pal under the bus in order to salvage his own lucrative career making mostly crappy comedies.
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:42 PM on July 16 [75 favorites]
Good for the agency. I'm with Black. We need to stop advocating violence in public.
If TFG strokes out, I don't care, but I just keep thinking please, please don't make him a martyr or encourage the pity vote.
Actually, whatever I feel about Trump really doesn't need to be out there for public consumption, other than my family and friends. Of which 99.9%* of the members of the blue are, obviously.
(*Except that guy. I don't care about his politics, he just keeps looking at me funny.)
posted by BlueHorse at 2:44 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
If TFG strokes out, I don't care, but I just keep thinking please, please don't make him a martyr or encourage the pity vote.
Actually, whatever I feel about Trump really doesn't need to be out there for public consumption, other than my family and friends. Of which 99.9%* of the members of the blue are, obviously.
(*Except that guy. I don't care about his politics, he just keeps looking at me funny.)
posted by BlueHorse at 2:44 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
What ever happened to rock and roll?
Honestly more than anything the effect of Trump's botched haircut is that the crusaders for liberal democratic Normalcy have decided that the way we return to it is by supporting the guy that they were saying last week was going to end the United States as we know it.
posted by jy4m at 2:45 PM on July 16 [28 favorites]
Honestly more than anything the effect of Trump's botched haircut is that the crusaders for liberal democratic Normalcy have decided that the way we return to it is by supporting the guy that they were saying last week was going to end the United States as we know it.
posted by jy4m at 2:45 PM on July 16 [28 favorites]
Every partnership is hostage to the biggest pile of DreamWorks bucks that might suddenly evaporate.
posted by Artw at 2:49 PM on July 16 [13 favorites]
posted by Artw at 2:49 PM on July 16 [13 favorites]
I’m pretty sure Trump would be happy to have my trans ass rounded up and shot. The right makes constant “jokes” about shooting leftish politicians voters. They push through laws that let them run over protesters blocking traffic. And yet we can’t say we wish this shooter had enough time to properly line up his shot? Feh.
posted by egypturnash at 2:51 PM on July 16 [107 favorites]
posted by egypturnash at 2:51 PM on July 16 [107 favorites]
FWIW that Australian Senator is an elected-by-accident fringe figure who has a track record of very weird activity. I’m not saying the comment was good or bad only that it doesn’t seem to be a thing here just because Babet put out a press release.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 2:52 PM on July 16 [14 favorites]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 2:52 PM on July 16 [14 favorites]
I'd expect a little more class from the composer of Fuck Her Gently and Double Team.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 2:54 PM on July 16 [56 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 2:54 PM on July 16 [56 favorites]
On the third hand, nobody bats an eye when guys like Ted Nugent have been making even more direct threats and incitements to violence against Obama, Hillary, and Biden for the past decade. So it feels disingenuous to be so pearl-clutching about a different guitar player wishing death upon a tyrant who ought to die.
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:56 PM on July 16 [108 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:56 PM on July 16 [108 favorites]
I’m not going to disagree with egypturnash, but with something like this it’s both a political and very much also a business decision about how you’re going to choose to be perceived and this response to what was said was always going to be pretty much inevitable.
Personally I’m not going to advocate for political violence but I will stand in front of your trans ass and get shot first.
posted by edd at 2:56 PM on July 16 [10 favorites]
Personally I’m not going to advocate for political violence but I will stand in front of your trans ass and get shot first.
posted by edd at 2:56 PM on July 16 [10 favorites]
As it is with everything else, timing is critical. A statement like Kyle's made a year from now, or even two months from now, would probably not have elicited a response like this. But two days out? That is, like, the dictionary definition of TOO SOON. There is absolutely nothing to be gained and everything to lose, as people have found out. And it isn't about supporting TFG, because fuck him. It is about reading the room, which is global, 24/7 and filled with everyone on the planet.
posted by grumpybear69 at 3:00 PM on July 16 [8 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 3:00 PM on July 16 [8 favorites]
Black is a famous, Jewish, father. My knee-jerk reaction was that he knows what MAGA people are like, and his reaction is a precaution, a manifestation of perfectly rational fear.
posted by Western Infidels at 3:07 PM on July 16 [10 favorites]
posted by Western Infidels at 3:07 PM on July 16 [10 favorites]
I was worried that he said some kind of horrible right wing thing, then I literally L'd OL when I saw what he actually said.
posted by ignignokt at 3:19 PM on July 16 [11 favorites]
posted by ignignokt at 3:19 PM on July 16 [11 favorites]
I am heartily glad that in These Times (tm) I don't have an on-stage job in the public eye that involves a lot of ad-libbing. Just maintaining the barrier between "inside thoughts" and "outside thoughts" in my own little realm of meetings, emails, and friends is hard enough.
posted by pantarei70 at 3:20 PM on July 16 [14 favorites]
posted by pantarei70 at 3:20 PM on July 16 [14 favorites]
I was worried that he said some kind of horrible right wing thing
He did. He just said it about Trump.
posted by The Bellman at 3:21 PM on July 16 [30 favorites]
He did. He just said it about Trump.
posted by The Bellman at 3:21 PM on July 16 [30 favorites]
Kyle may not have had media training, but Black - who has done a number of high-profile films and the press events for them - certainly has.
There’s obviously a backstory to this that we will never hear. I would be interested to hear what the penalty for pulling out of these gigs is - are the artists liable, or is there some kind of rock and roll touring insurance that covers events like “chased out of continent by angry horde” or “caught in flagrante with large fish” or whatever this falls under.
posted by The River Ivel at 3:24 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
There’s obviously a backstory to this that we will never hear. I would be interested to hear what the penalty for pulling out of these gigs is - are the artists liable, or is there some kind of rock and roll touring insurance that covers events like “chased out of continent by angry horde” or “caught in flagrante with large fish” or whatever this falls under.
posted by The River Ivel at 3:24 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
Trump calls Nancy Pelosi 'crazed lunatic,' continues to joke about her husband's assault
posted by Omon Ra at 3:27 PM on July 16 [27 favorites]
posted by Omon Ra at 3:27 PM on July 16 [27 favorites]
trump and Co. have been saying the quiet things out loud for so long that it shouldn't even come as a shock for them to get a taste. It's nice to think we live in a world where wishing a bad thing is the most morally reprehensible thing imaginable, but then we read the headlines and reality settles back in.
Me, I'd buy KG a beer just for his (stupid) bravura.
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:28 PM on July 16 [15 favorites]
Me, I'd buy KG a beer just for his (stupid) bravura.
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:28 PM on July 16 [15 favorites]
KG did nothing wrong.
posted by pattern juggler at 3:29 PM on July 16 [32 favorites]
posted by pattern juggler at 3:29 PM on July 16 [32 favorites]
I hope Gass comes back Dixie Chicks style with a pissed off album that wins him a shitload of Grammys.
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:30 PM on July 16 [12 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:30 PM on July 16 [12 favorites]
Again, wrong is a complicated thing. Logically wrong? Morally wrong? Politically wrong? A wrong business move? Certainly one or two of those at least did qualify. Were they the most important? Again, important is a complicated thing…
posted by edd at 3:32 PM on July 16 [6 favorites]
posted by edd at 3:32 PM on July 16 [6 favorites]
Yeah, the media training is they add a couple zeros to your bank account and tell you that talking too much could put you in a Belushi situation. Public backlash makes careers. It's elite backlash that the court jester has to watch out for.
posted by jy4m at 3:33 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]
posted by jy4m at 3:33 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]
Not cancelling would have been messy too .
Tenacious D is kind of the epitome of middle-aged white dude rock these days and I have no doubt they have a decent share of Trump-voting fans who would have loudly demanded refunds. Some venues would pull out too.
Then, as Western Infidels said, you have the security issue.
I bet they’ll tour again in a couple years.
posted by smelendez at 3:35 PM on July 16
Tenacious D is kind of the epitome of middle-aged white dude rock these days and I have no doubt they have a decent share of Trump-voting fans who would have loudly demanded refunds. Some venues would pull out too.
Then, as Western Infidels said, you have the security issue.
I bet they’ll tour again in a couple years.
posted by smelendez at 3:35 PM on July 16
talking too much could put you in a Belushi situation
Hey, According To Jim wasn't that bad
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 3:37 PM on July 16 [4 favorites]
Hey, According To Jim wasn't that bad
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 3:37 PM on July 16 [4 favorites]
MAGA Republican comes into a room vomiting all over everything and everyone. Gets everyone sick with the latest strain of whatever physical or spiritual sickness they have.
Democrat comes into the room wearing white shoes after labor day. The whole world has a meltdown.
"That was awful that we were vomited all over. I'm sick now!"
"Me too! But did you see those shoes???"
I wish there was an actually funny punchline
posted by treepour at 3:41 PM on July 16 [43 favorites]
Democrat comes into the room wearing white shoes after labor day. The whole world has a meltdown.
"That was awful that we were vomited all over. I'm sick now!"
"Me too! But did you see those shoes???"
I wish there was an actually funny punchline
posted by treepour at 3:41 PM on July 16 [43 favorites]
I'm real glad that bullet only grazed Golden Toilet, because any other Republican would win this election in a walk.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 3:42 PM on July 16 [3 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 3:42 PM on July 16 [3 favorites]
Public figures opening their piehole and jamming their foot in it. Gotta love it.
posted by Czjewel at 3:51 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]
posted by Czjewel at 3:51 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]
It's going to be a weird conversation here, because anyone who agrees with Kyle Gass will have their comment removed as per the rules here, so it will seem like everyone here agrees with Jack Black, when that is assuredly not the case (don't worry, I would NEVER say I agree with Kyle Gass, even if I DID agree with him, because I know the rules here and I wouldn't want to be naughty). So just let it be said that even though I would NEVER agree with Kyle Gass about ANYTHING, I'm sure there are SOME people here who sometimes might agree with him about SOME things. But not what you're thinking. Never that.
posted by rikschell at 3:51 PM on July 16 [47 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 3:51 PM on July 16 [47 favorites]
It's only protected First Amendment speech if you are conservative. Obviously, Gass forgot to add, "I'm only joking" to the end of the joke. Look at what Trumpers did to Kathy Griffin.
posted by Word_Salad at 4:10 PM on July 16 [17 favorites]
posted by Word_Salad at 4:10 PM on July 16 [17 favorites]
downtohisturtles: I hope Gass comes back Dixie Chicks style with a pissed off album that wins him a shitload of Grammys.
Or maybe he goes on to write the greatest song in the world (not just a tribute).
posted by dr_dank at 4:14 PM on July 16 [14 favorites]
Or maybe he goes on to write the greatest song in the world (not just a tribute).
posted by dr_dank at 4:14 PM on July 16 [14 favorites]
This is the least punk thing JB could ever do. Way to sell your friend out over a joke.
posted by mattgriffin at 4:23 PM on July 16 [18 favorites]
posted by mattgriffin at 4:23 PM on July 16 [18 favorites]
If someone had gone after Biden like that, the first words we would hear would be "Next time ..." followed by criticism of shooting stance and choice of weapon, etc.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 4:27 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 4:27 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
I'm confused do people believe Trump is actually a fascist who threatens to destroy democracy and threatens the lives and safety of millions, or is this just something people say for fun, because if one genuinely believes this then hard to reconcile it with also getting a case of incivility-vapours over pretty tame and typical dark anti-fascist humor on par with "only good cop is a dead cop" etc. Some people are such fucking babies including Jack Black, jfc
posted by windbox at 4:28 PM on July 16 [72 favorites]
posted by windbox at 4:28 PM on July 16 [72 favorites]
Is there a non-paywalled story about this that might actually include what he said so this doesn't seem so much like much ado about nothing?
posted by Snowflake at 4:28 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
posted by Snowflake at 4:28 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
What happened to “when they go low, we go high”?
I get there’s a point at which basically you’re stuck with civil war as an option, but you are not there. I don’t get how at this point in time you deal with someone who has gone in for political violence in the January coup attempt and you respond to it by however humorously advocating political violence?
Whatever you think surely you’re still in the stage where you advocate for the right guy (sadly it’s gonna be a guy) and you advocate for peaceful maintenance of power?
posted by edd at 4:32 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]
I get there’s a point at which basically you’re stuck with civil war as an option, but you are not there. I don’t get how at this point in time you deal with someone who has gone in for political violence in the January coup attempt and you respond to it by however humorously advocating political violence?
Whatever you think surely you’re still in the stage where you advocate for the right guy (sadly it’s gonna be a guy) and you advocate for peaceful maintenance of power?
posted by edd at 4:32 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]
He did. He just said it about Trump.
He did not state "a right wing thing".
posted by windbox at 4:32 PM on July 16 [8 favorites]
He did not state "a right wing thing".
posted by windbox at 4:32 PM on July 16 [8 favorites]
The last couple of days have been really fuckin weird, and part of that weirdness has been hearing statement after statement calling for unity, decency, and respect. You know, as if we were in some parallel dimension where those concepts still had meaning. So, I'm not jazzed about the exact wording of Kyle G's joke, but I'm honestly kind of relieved that someone punctured that bizarre atmosphere.
posted by knuckle tattoos at 4:33 PM on July 16 [18 favorites]
posted by knuckle tattoos at 4:33 PM on July 16 [18 favorites]
Look, I'm glad I wasn't standing at a mic in front of thousands of people Saturday night, is all I'm saying. Who amongst us can truly proclaim otherwise.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:44 PM on July 16 [14 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:44 PM on July 16 [14 favorites]
Either Trump is held accountable for his actions and punished like the rest of us would be, or people will start wishing him dead. Pearl clutching at every utterance of the thought is going to get old, real fast. This is Nazi-punching territory; a place where a little intolerance should not only be allowed, but is well overdue.
posted by krisjohn at 4:47 PM on July 16 [47 favorites]
posted by krisjohn at 4:47 PM on July 16 [47 favorites]
What happened to “when they go low, we go high”?
As I recall, it helped "us" lose an election in 2016.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:49 PM on July 16 [67 favorites]
As I recall, it helped "us" lose an election in 2016.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:49 PM on July 16 [67 favorites]
As it is with everything else, timing is critical. A statement like Kyle's made a year from now, or even two months from now, would probably not have elicited a response like this. But two days out? That is, like, the dictionary definition of TOO SOON.
In which case, the correct response would have been "Boy, James Austin Johnson is screwed!"
posted by dannyboybell at 4:52 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
In which case, the correct response would have been "Boy, James Austin Johnson is screwed!"
posted by dannyboybell at 4:52 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
Right like you can't do the whole "Trump is basically Hitler-lite" or "Mango Mussolini" thing and then shit in your adult diaper at edgy "lol kill fascists" jokes. It is indeed a mutually exclusive thing, like if you could quantify the percentage that this completely benign rhetoric makes you uncomfortable you then would have to subtract it from however "dangerous" you actually think Trump is.
posted by windbox at 4:53 PM on July 16 [17 favorites]
posted by windbox at 4:53 PM on July 16 [17 favorites]
I don't think that's true at all. It's entirely possible to think those things and also think the aftermath would be even worse.
posted by dbx at 4:56 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
posted by dbx at 4:56 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
> Is there a non-paywalled story about this
The ABC has a story about it, though it includes Instagram and TikTok widgets / iFrames.
posted by GeckoDundee at 4:57 PM on July 16
The ABC has a story about it, though it includes Instagram and TikTok widgets / iFrames.
posted by GeckoDundee at 4:57 PM on July 16
It's entirely possible to think those things and also think the aftermath would be even worse.
Anyone who does think the aftermath of a Trump assassination would be worse than another Trump presidency is engaging in some pretty serious motivated reasoning.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 5:03 PM on July 16 [23 favorites]
Anyone who does think the aftermath of a Trump assassination would be worse than another Trump presidency is engaging in some pretty serious motivated reasoning.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 5:03 PM on July 16 [23 favorites]
On thank God, I have loved Tenacious D since their HBO show in the 90s and my first thought he outed himself as a secret Nazi or something. So glad to see it's just a bone-headed comment on the shooting cause the D must always be JB and Cage.
posted by star gentle uterus at 5:03 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
posted by star gentle uterus at 5:03 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
I feel like I'm going insane with the way the world is going. Actual fascists are realistic challengers to government, or in government, and the guy saying "I wish someone would shoot him" is the evil one???
Apparently the average person today would not go back in time to shoot Hitler; that would be uncivil.
(And the person floating the hypothetical would be shunned immediately.)
posted by Dysk at 5:04 PM on July 16 [39 favorites]
Apparently the average person today would not go back in time to shoot Hitler; that would be uncivil.
(And the person floating the hypothetical would be shunned immediately.)
posted by Dysk at 5:04 PM on July 16 [39 favorites]
First making a movie with Chris Pratt, and now this. I think we can safely write off Jack Black as an ally of any meaningful kind.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:06 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:06 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
With Hitler there was a war and a horrific mass extermination. There’s a chance still to democratically decline Trump. There’s a difference. Trump is bad, but do you want a civil war or worse at this stage?
posted by edd at 5:08 PM on July 16 [3 favorites]
posted by edd at 5:08 PM on July 16 [3 favorites]
Tonight I’m gonna watch Valkyrie in a new light, now that I know Tom Cruises character was the bad guy.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 5:08 PM on July 16 [16 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 5:08 PM on July 16 [16 favorites]
Good grief I’m struggling to get this across aren’t I? Trump is not in power. He might not be.
posted by edd at 5:10 PM on July 16 [4 favorites]
posted by edd at 5:10 PM on July 16 [4 favorites]
With Hitler there was a war and a horrific mass extermination. There’s a chance still to democratically decline Trump. There’s a difference. Trump is bad, but do you want a civil war or worse at this stage?
We're talking about a joke made by a comedian during a comedy performance. I don't think you need to bring this level of analysis to bear. Maybe if it were a serious suggestion and not "don't miss next time".
posted by Dysk at 5:14 PM on July 16 [17 favorites]
We're talking about a joke made by a comedian during a comedy performance. I don't think you need to bring this level of analysis to bear. Maybe if it were a serious suggestion and not "don't miss next time".
posted by Dysk at 5:14 PM on July 16 [17 favorites]
We will defeat fascism with civility and norms
posted by anazgnos at 5:15 PM on July 16 [24 favorites]
posted by anazgnos at 5:15 PM on July 16 [24 favorites]
What edd said. The possible futures are not limited to "trump in power" and "trump assassinated".
posted by dbx at 5:15 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
posted by dbx at 5:15 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
I know at least one person whom I believe voted for Trump in 2016, that told me recently that they just wished he would die already (I assume they meant nonviolently). I don’t agree with their politics, but I can’t say I disagree with the sentiment. It’s not that far from that viewpoint to the joke here.
I guess I’m saying I think this is a pretty dull middle of the road joke, and I don’t understand the oversized reaction.
posted by nat at 5:17 PM on July 16 [15 favorites]
I guess I’m saying I think this is a pretty dull middle of the road joke, and I don’t understand the oversized reaction.
posted by nat at 5:17 PM on July 16 [15 favorites]
Norms like sticking up for due process and convention for the guy who ignores it, like not wishing death even in the most joking of contexts on the guy who wishes death of entire groups of people who he might govern? The guy who put kids in cages? This feels like people are more interested in respect for and building coalition with Trump and his people than with others who oppose him.
posted by Dysk at 5:17 PM on July 16 [8 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 5:17 PM on July 16 [8 favorites]
“We're talking about a joke made by a comedian during a comedy performance. I don't think you need to bring this level of analysis to bear”
The problem isn’t what analysis you bring to bear. It’s what commentary is more broadly given on it, and what the public discourse is and how that affects the politics of it all.
posted by edd at 5:19 PM on July 16
The problem isn’t what analysis you bring to bear. It’s what commentary is more broadly given on it, and what the public discourse is and how that affects the politics of it all.
posted by edd at 5:19 PM on July 16
Dysk: I don’t like it but it’s politics and if you want the good result you have to play the godawful horrific game.
posted by edd at 5:21 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
posted by edd at 5:21 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
And it is exactly that discourse that I think is fucked up. When a figure like fucking Trump is inside the circle of civility, you've lost sight of what civility is for. It's baffling, in the same way that someone being chided for criticism of Hitler with "don't speak ill of the dead" would be. The rule exists to establish conventions and mutual respect; you get to punch the Nazi, because they are a nazi. You get to wish death on Trump, because he is Trump.
A civilian in a warzone loses that status if they pick up a gun and fight. Whatever protections civility offers, Trump has long since lost it.
But here we are saying KG is the bad guy.
posted by Dysk at 5:23 PM on July 16 [43 favorites]
A civilian in a warzone loses that status if they pick up a gun and fight. Whatever protections civility offers, Trump has long since lost it.
But here we are saying KG is the bad guy.
posted by Dysk at 5:23 PM on July 16 [43 favorites]
(And I don't think that treating Trump like he's just another politician we disagree with is a winning move, or sensible. His ideas are so beyond the pale that you lose by even engaging with them as if they were worthy of it. You shift the overton window further right when you play that game.
This is like Labour taking the time to address Vance's islamist comments - if you engage on their terms, you've already lost. Treat the statement like the absolute nonsense that it is: no more worthy of comment than Jim down the pub's assertion that the local police chief is actually a Russian space alien in a skinsuit.)
posted by Dysk at 5:26 PM on July 16 [19 favorites]
This is like Labour taking the time to address Vance's islamist comments - if you engage on their terms, you've already lost. Treat the statement like the absolute nonsense that it is: no more worthy of comment than Jim down the pub's assertion that the local police chief is actually a Russian space alien in a skinsuit.)
posted by Dysk at 5:26 PM on July 16 [19 favorites]
KG is not the bad guy. KG put a foot wrong in the stupid game for the whole planet currently happening. Trump is the bad guy.
posted by edd at 5:26 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
posted by edd at 5:26 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
Yet here we all are condemning KG for being mean to Trump. That is fully casting him as the bad guy. The fact that he made a grovelling apology is just the depressing cherry on top of this cake of shit. Stick to your guns (pun very much intended).
posted by Dysk at 5:28 PM on July 16 [17 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 5:28 PM on July 16 [17 favorites]
What happened to “when they go low, we go high”?
Politics are a knife fight. This is a good way to get stabbed in the guts.
posted by ryanshepard at 5:44 PM on July 16 [12 favorites]
Politics are a knife fight. This is a good way to get stabbed in the guts.
posted by ryanshepard at 5:44 PM on July 16 [12 favorites]
This is nothing more or less than KG making a timely and relevant joke that myself and all of my friends would laugh at and think better of him for making, and then both of them doing different forms of careerist damage control, possibly with cartoonish dollar signs replacing JB's eyeballs. PM me if you'd like to hear my jokes about TFG getting an earful. We owe TFG and his whole situation no solemnity whatsoever.
posted by panhopticon at 5:45 PM on July 16 [14 favorites]
posted by panhopticon at 5:45 PM on July 16 [14 favorites]
Kyle took a bullet for me
Now I’ve gotta rock for three
JB (Joe Biden) and me…
Don’t forget about Jumanji 3!
posted by Atom Eyes at 5:47 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
Now I’ve gotta rock for three
JB (Joe Biden) and me…
Don’t forget about Jumanji 3!
posted by Atom Eyes at 5:47 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
Apparently the average person today would not go back in time to shoot Hitler; that would be uncivil.
The issue here, as I see it, is this is still a democracy, not a murderocracy. Conservatives have been steadily white-anting our democratic processes to institute one-party rule – their 'second American revolution' – but We the People still collectively have the power to throw these fuckers out of office.
It is true the SDP in Weimar Germany was more or less feckless as the German political situation went to shit 1929-33. But the GOP has certainly shown us who they are, and it's up to us to not vote for it this November.
Back to Weimar; like Trump, Hitler didn't personally kill anyone when he was in power. He was of course the "Führer" and bore primary responsibility of the path Germany took 1933-45, but tens of millions of Germans were happy to take that ride with him, including such putatively moral people as the quite Catholic Stauffenberg.
Trump is the visible pustule on our body politic, but he is not the source of the infection.
Trump and Trumpism is beatable this year . . . and if we can't keep the same narrow margin (or better) we won in 2020, that just says more about the state of this nation than it does about Trump.
posted by torokunai at 5:49 PM on July 16 [4 favorites]
The issue here, as I see it, is this is still a democracy, not a murderocracy. Conservatives have been steadily white-anting our democratic processes to institute one-party rule – their 'second American revolution' – but We the People still collectively have the power to throw these fuckers out of office.
It is true the SDP in Weimar Germany was more or less feckless as the German political situation went to shit 1929-33. But the GOP has certainly shown us who they are, and it's up to us to not vote for it this November.
Back to Weimar; like Trump, Hitler didn't personally kill anyone when he was in power. He was of course the "Führer" and bore primary responsibility of the path Germany took 1933-45, but tens of millions of Germans were happy to take that ride with him, including such putatively moral people as the quite Catholic Stauffenberg.
Trump is the visible pustule on our body politic, but he is not the source of the infection.
Trump and Trumpism is beatable this year . . . and if we can't keep the same narrow margin (or better) we won in 2020, that just says more about the state of this nation than it does about Trump.
posted by torokunai at 5:49 PM on July 16 [4 favorites]
@windbox: he is a noted admirer of dictators, including Adolf Hitler. He has threatened retribution against his political enemies. He has demanded immunity for “official acts“ and then declared that his actions on January 6 were official acts. He has attempted to use his office to shield himself from prosecution for acts that occurred well outside the bounds of his office. That, by itself, should tell you everything you need to know about the man. But if you then add in all the other things that we know about him, the picture formed is not a pretty one. It is an ugly picture of an ugly man who only cares for himself and no one or nothing else. All politicians are, to an extent, narcissist. But he has taken it to a level not seen before, and demanded to be treated like a king. Which his followers seem to be absolutely willing to do.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 5:49 PM on July 16 [11 favorites]
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 5:49 PM on July 16 [11 favorites]
I mean, assassination is bad, murder is bad, many people are saying it, and it's a beautiful truth,
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:53 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:53 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
If you want to know what's best for the nation, I could tell you bigly
posted by rikschell at 6:05 PM on July 16
posted by rikschell at 6:05 PM on July 16
His ideas are so beyond the pale that you lose by even engaging with them as if they were worthy of it.
His ideas are just the same shit peddled in the 1950s from the Birchers and grew into prominence in the 1990s with Buchanan.
AEI, ALEC, Cato, Discovery Institute, Federalist Society, George Mason, Family Resource Center, Heritage Foundation, Hillsdale College, Hudson Institute, Libertas Institute, Mackinac Center, State Policy Network, Turning Point USA, etc etc. [1]
The radical right has been campaigning for this moment for 60+ years. If we can't beat Trump in November – after what he put this country through 2017 - 2021, I think it's safe to say the South (aka conservatives) will have finally defeated the Union (aka liberals).
posted by torokunai at 6:10 PM on July 16 [6 favorites]
His ideas are just the same shit peddled in the 1950s from the Birchers and grew into prominence in the 1990s with Buchanan.
AEI, ALEC, Cato, Discovery Institute, Federalist Society, George Mason, Family Resource Center, Heritage Foundation, Hillsdale College, Hudson Institute, Libertas Institute, Mackinac Center, State Policy Network, Turning Point USA, etc etc. [1]
The radical right has been campaigning for this moment for 60+ years. If we can't beat Trump in November – after what he put this country through 2017 - 2021, I think it's safe to say the South (aka conservatives) will have finally defeated the Union (aka liberals).
posted by torokunai at 6:10 PM on July 16 [6 favorites]
I feel like we can largely agree on two points here :
1. If what occurred on Saturday happened to Biden instead, the right would already be printing up shirts to sell at TFG rallies with "Don't worry, Joe, I WON'T MISS!" slogans on them. Of course they would. We all know they would. DJTJ would have already posted a photo of himself wearing one.
2. KG made the one joke you're not supposed to ever make. It's like one of the very few things that fall outside of our otherwise pretty lax 1st amendment rights. I remember The State having a sketch where the singer was doing the "I love you so much I'd _____ for you!" but when he sang "XXXX the president..." he was quickly escorted off by federal agents. Granted, he didn't say it while in the U.S., but I agree with what was said upthread : the timing is the key here
I don't personally hold any ill-will against JB or the now-former management team of KG's, because surely they all groaned in respect for, not despite KG. Like "we hate that we have to throw you under the bus, sincerely, but... we kinda have to throw you under the bus". I think KG's apology reflects that same self-groan of "you're right, you're right. bad timing! my bad"
posted by revmitcz at 6:17 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
1. If what occurred on Saturday happened to Biden instead, the right would already be printing up shirts to sell at TFG rallies with "Don't worry, Joe, I WON'T MISS!" slogans on them. Of course they would. We all know they would. DJTJ would have already posted a photo of himself wearing one.
2. KG made the one joke you're not supposed to ever make. It's like one of the very few things that fall outside of our otherwise pretty lax 1st amendment rights. I remember The State having a sketch where the singer was doing the "I love you so much I'd _____ for you!" but when he sang "XXXX the president..." he was quickly escorted off by federal agents. Granted, he didn't say it while in the U.S., but I agree with what was said upthread : the timing is the key here
I don't personally hold any ill-will against JB or the now-former management team of KG's, because surely they all groaned in respect for, not despite KG. Like "we hate that we have to throw you under the bus, sincerely, but... we kinda have to throw you under the bus". I think KG's apology reflects that same self-groan of "you're right, you're right. bad timing! my bad"
posted by revmitcz at 6:17 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
Once again, "cancel culture" comes for the people making tasteless jokes about the fascists (Cf. Kathy Griffin) while the fascists merrily prance around gleefully promising all the violence in the world. Fuck you, Black. Way to wimp out. It's all fun and games jumping around in American flag overalls at a Biden fundraiser, but when the rubber hits the road and your bandmate makes an off-the-cuff crack about the wannabe dictator it's all, "oh noes we can't be mean, better run away and hide." One of the few people with the money and power to go, "yeah, he said that, so fucking what, he's talking about the guy who put kids in cages" and you fucking folded.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:18 PM on July 16 [46 favorites]
posted by soundguy99 at 6:18 PM on July 16 [46 favorites]
I think Jack could have been kinder to Kyle about it, while still getting his message across that it's wrong or whatever (I do not care at all about this joke, many of us thought the same thing, a joke is not advocating for political violence, that's bonkers). 🙄
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:24 PM on July 16 [6 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:24 PM on July 16 [6 favorites]
And look, I sympathize with people who are better than me and can uncategorically say how wrong it is and I wish I could co-sign but
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:27 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:27 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
If I were Jack Black and the guy I was on stage with made a joke like that, I'd probably pretend I had no idea who he was. I might call the Secret Service myself. It's one thing if a guy in a bar says it; these people are celebrities saying this stuff in a room full of people who probably have their phones out. You're asking for several different flavors of a really bad time.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:33 PM on July 16
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:33 PM on July 16
Anyone who does think the aftermath of a Trump assassination would be worse than another Trump presidency is engaging in some pretty serious motivated reasoning.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:03 PM on July 16
.....I think Trump might lose this fall. I do not think Biden would beat a MAGA guy in his 40s.
I know that shooters feeling "justified" forever would be bad for the country.
posted by andreaazure at 6:36 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 8:03 PM on July 16
.....I think Trump might lose this fall. I do not think Biden would beat a MAGA guy in his 40s.
I know that shooters feeling "justified" forever would be bad for the country.
posted by andreaazure at 6:36 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
Yeah I think what Jack Black did pisses me off more than anything. I get the suits not wanting to be associated with it. But Tenacious D was a thing before Jack Black had a career at all. He could have said "I don't agree with what my friend said but understandably tensions are high and sometimes we don't always think before we speak" or some other bland separating himself from it statement while still standing by KG. The statement he put out was not that.
posted by downtohisturtles at 6:37 PM on July 16 [30 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 6:37 PM on July 16 [30 favorites]
I wish the joke had been better. “Don’t miss Trump next time” isn't exactly hilarious. This story would be different if we were laughing in spite of ourselves.
posted by pracowity at 6:40 PM on July 16
posted by pracowity at 6:40 PM on July 16
An off the cuff not landing joke is MORE understandable to me, we're all human beings, we've all been there. Which is why Jack could have expressed something nicer towards his friend while also condemning it.
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:44 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:44 PM on July 16 [5 favorites]
But it's not like I have a high opinion of Jack Black or anything
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:45 PM on July 16 [4 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:45 PM on July 16 [4 favorites]
> edd: "What happened to “when they go low, we go high”?"
If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?
posted by mhum at 6:47 PM on July 16 [14 favorites]
If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?
posted by mhum at 6:47 PM on July 16 [14 favorites]
A tasteless joke, to be sure, but this is nonsense of the highest order and a total overreaction.
For anyone thinking a senator weighing in has any importance, you should know he's the only senator from the (now deregistered) United Australia Party, founded and funded by mining billionaire Clive Palmer, who recently brought Tucker Carlson to Australia for a series of 'freedom conferences'. The UAP's motto is 'Make Australia Great'. Does any of that sound familiar?
I don't know why anyone would think the 1st amendment to the US Constitution has any relevance here - last time I checked, the US Constitution doesn't apply in Australia.
posted by dg at 6:47 PM on July 16 [14 favorites]
For anyone thinking a senator weighing in has any importance, you should know he's the only senator from the (now deregistered) United Australia Party, founded and funded by mining billionaire Clive Palmer, who recently brought Tucker Carlson to Australia for a series of 'freedom conferences'. The UAP's motto is 'Make Australia Great'. Does any of that sound familiar?
I don't know why anyone would think the 1st amendment to the US Constitution has any relevance here - last time I checked, the US Constitution doesn't apply in Australia.
posted by dg at 6:47 PM on July 16 [14 favorites]
I did have a high opinion. Or at least a favorable one. I've watched Bernie half a dozen times. School of Rock rocks. He's the guy who'd show up on Mr. Show dancing in a straw hat in a weird sketch about a terrible old joke that's funnier than the joke because of how ridiculous it was. He's always fun on talk shows. And Tenacious D is the shit. I never watched Kung Fu Panda or anything but I generally I supported him. That one statement instantly changed my opinion.
posted by downtohisturtles at 6:52 PM on July 16 [12 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 6:52 PM on July 16 [12 favorites]
Big "here's what he could have done to avoid the ire of fascists" energy in this thread...
posted by AlSweigart at 6:59 PM on July 16 [10 favorites]
posted by AlSweigart at 6:59 PM on July 16 [10 favorites]
What ever happened to rock and roll?
We're not gonna take it
Ok, sure, I guess we'll take it
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:11 PM on July 16 [19 favorites]
We're not gonna take it
Ok, sure, I guess we'll take it
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:11 PM on July 16 [19 favorites]
All this hand-wringing over this comment is just ridiculous, really. If Joe Biden had survived an assassination attempt with a slight graze, Donald Trump would very probably be saying similar things about Biden. Can anyone imagine that he wouldn't?
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 7:32 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 7:32 PM on July 16 [7 favorites]
Strange how some people (cough Senator Babet cough) want a government small enough to drown in a bathtub right up until they realize it can be used to silence the people they don't like.
Especially when it's people who might have different opinions WRT the windows of small businesses. And settin' fuckin' fires.
posted by MarchHare at 7:50 PM on July 16
Especially when it's people who might have different opinions WRT the windows of small businesses. And settin' fuckin' fires.
posted by MarchHare at 7:50 PM on July 16
I have never listened to or enjoyed Tenacious D. Hell I always thought of Kyle as that other guy in Jack Black's joke band. I will remember his name now.
I'm not surprised or offended by the joke. I am surprised at how long it took for somebody to say it. It kind of clears the air, frankly.
I don't think the Democratic party understands just how dangerous the fascist right is. As far as they're (GOP) concerned, the fact that there's gonna be an election means they've won. They're not worried about how many votes they get, they're gonna strong arm it because they think the d's will let them. They think we're afraid of getting hurt, and so they will win.
The weight of proof this last 20 or so years is with them. Bush 2 didn't win election, he had it handed to him but a conservative Supreme Court. Much less conservatives than the current one, I might add, and the democrats didn't even say "That's not fair" they let it go. Now we have a crazy fascist reactionary court, crazy reactionary fascist governor's and state houses, laws being overturned by bad decisions against precedent, laws being passed and followed that are clearly unconstitutional, and criminals calling for retribution against people who disagree.
Tell me how we are not in crisis. Are people just hiding from the truth because it's terrifying? I mean, I totally understand that, but to be afraid that we might have a civil war, is to close the barn door after the horses have bolted. Just because there hasn't been much shooting does not mean it hasn't started. It just means no one wants to throw the first punch.
The bad news is we're being pummeled and we still want to pretend it's ok.
It's not ok.
A comedian being insensitive is the very least of our problems. It's so much bigger than I have the patience to point out here. Ask your trans or your Islamic friends.
Thank you Kyle.
posted by evilDoug at 8:05 PM on July 16 [21 favorites]
I'm not surprised or offended by the joke. I am surprised at how long it took for somebody to say it. It kind of clears the air, frankly.
I don't think the Democratic party understands just how dangerous the fascist right is. As far as they're (GOP) concerned, the fact that there's gonna be an election means they've won. They're not worried about how many votes they get, they're gonna strong arm it because they think the d's will let them. They think we're afraid of getting hurt, and so they will win.
The weight of proof this last 20 or so years is with them. Bush 2 didn't win election, he had it handed to him but a conservative Supreme Court. Much less conservatives than the current one, I might add, and the democrats didn't even say "That's not fair" they let it go. Now we have a crazy fascist reactionary court, crazy reactionary fascist governor's and state houses, laws being overturned by bad decisions against precedent, laws being passed and followed that are clearly unconstitutional, and criminals calling for retribution against people who disagree.
Tell me how we are not in crisis. Are people just hiding from the truth because it's terrifying? I mean, I totally understand that, but to be afraid that we might have a civil war, is to close the barn door after the horses have bolted. Just because there hasn't been much shooting does not mean it hasn't started. It just means no one wants to throw the first punch.
The bad news is we're being pummeled and we still want to pretend it's ok.
It's not ok.
A comedian being insensitive is the very least of our problems. It's so much bigger than I have the patience to point out here. Ask your trans or your Islamic friends.
Thank you Kyle.
posted by evilDoug at 8:05 PM on July 16 [21 favorites]
We're not gonna take it
Ok, sure, I guess we'll take it
Don't you dare not to take it, anymore
*points at KG*
posted by Dysk at 8:10 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]
Ok, sure, I guess we'll take it
Don't you dare not to take it, anymore
*points at KG*
posted by Dysk at 8:10 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]
>WRT the windows of small businesses. And settin' fuckin' fires.
you want a fascist dictatorship? That's the way to get a fascist dictatorship, guaranteed.
Yes, this is an asymmetrical war, and yes they're winning, and yes the continued takeover of the levers of power by bad-faith people is a crisis.
And no I don't have any good answers. Sometimes there aren't any, though General Strikes have historically worked in the past I guess (but this is new territory we're in now)
In my life, Democrats have been in power for the 4 years of the Carter admin, and the first 2 years each of the Clinton, Obama, and Biden admins. 10 out of 55+. And here we are now.
posted by torokunai at 9:06 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
you want a fascist dictatorship? That's the way to get a fascist dictatorship, guaranteed.
Yes, this is an asymmetrical war, and yes they're winning, and yes the continued takeover of the levers of power by bad-faith people is a crisis.
And no I don't have any good answers. Sometimes there aren't any, though General Strikes have historically worked in the past I guess (but this is new territory we're in now)
In my life, Democrats have been in power for the 4 years of the Carter admin, and the first 2 years each of the Clinton, Obama, and Biden admins. 10 out of 55+. And here we are now.
posted by torokunai at 9:06 PM on July 16 [2 favorites]
Everyone claims they would go back in time to kill Hitler but when dude jokes that he wishes someone else's assassination attempt on the openly fascist frontrunner for President of the most powerful nation in the world had been successful, we feel that's beyond the pale. Is there ever any circumstance where it would be morally correct to broach the topic of political assassination, even in jest?
posted by latkes at 9:51 PM on July 16 [6 favorites]
posted by latkes at 9:51 PM on July 16 [6 favorites]
Edd, are you saying that if you had a Time Machine you’d only go back and kill Hitler after he’d started the war? Or for that classic clichè, the first thing to do with your Time Machine is to go back and volunteer for voter turnout efforts in the 1932 German parliamentary elections?
posted by Jon_Evil at 9:53 PM on July 16 [8 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 9:53 PM on July 16 [8 favorites]
Like, this is a variation on the trolley problem: If he gets back into power, countless more unnecessary deaths will occur. At what point does the probability of this happening become high enough to pull the lever?
posted by Jon_Evil at 10:01 PM on July 16 [3 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 10:01 PM on July 16 [3 favorites]
It's a little exhausting that people continue to face consequences for saying things about Trump when the man himself can grift, defraud, rape, commit treason, etc. and just go on mostly undeterred.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:04 PM on July 16 [33 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:04 PM on July 16 [33 favorites]
I agree with what you pointed out, though it's probably because the D's don't send mobs out for insulting Paul Pelosi. This whole sudden dropping of KG feels like trying to avoid the mob by JB.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:13 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:13 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]
torokunai the US didn't descend into a fascist dictatorship because Tenacious D sung those very words on a comedy record released two weeks after 9/11 when everyone was still wringing their hands about irony and satire being dead, and it won't descend into one now because Kyle Gass made an ill-timed joke, at a Tenacious D show on the other side of the planet, about someone who - despite being a public figure - is not presently part of any government, and which upset a punitively libertarian senator.
It might well yet descend into a fascist dictatorship, yes. But let's not pretend that'll be because a comedian said something mean in a foreign country about a bad man. It barely moves the needle in terms of which parts of your society are actively and credibly threatening which.
posted by MarchHare at 10:23 PM on July 16 [8 favorites]
It might well yet descend into a fascist dictatorship, yes. But let's not pretend that'll be because a comedian said something mean in a foreign country about a bad man. It barely moves the needle in terms of which parts of your society are actively and credibly threatening which.
posted by MarchHare at 10:23 PM on July 16 [8 favorites]
Lots of whataboutism here in defending a pretty macabre remark... not sure what to say beyond that.
I hope these guys and their partners and audience are able to work things through. I imagine it will take time, if it's going to happen.
Sometimes it feels like absolutely everybody is dysregulated.
posted by dsword at 10:51 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]
I hope these guys and their partners and audience are able to work things through. I imagine it will take time, if it's going to happen.
Sometimes it feels like absolutely everybody is dysregulated.
posted by dsword at 10:51 PM on July 16 [1 favorite]
Is there ever any circumstance where it would be morally correct to broach the topic of political assassination, even in jest?
On MetaFilter, your comment would trip the deletion circuit breaker, so you wouldn't get much chance to be morally correct about it.
posted by pracowity at 11:26 PM on July 16
On MetaFilter, your comment would trip the deletion circuit breaker, so you wouldn't get much chance to be morally correct about it.
posted by pracowity at 11:26 PM on July 16
So lemme get this straight, because some of this stuff has been fine and dandy over the years: GOP delegates sporting purple bandages in 2004 to mock John Kerry being awarded a Purple Heart, Palin posting an image of Democratic Senators with crosshairs on their head (one of whom was Gabby Giffords), chuds wearing t-shirts advocating the murder of journalists or liberals, endless praying for Obama's days to be numbered, etc. etc. etc. The list is endless.
But gallows humor about a rapist insurrectionist who's done a little light treason? BEYOND THE PALE! OMG the incivility! Fetch me my fainting couch.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:28 PM on July 16 [20 favorites]
But gallows humor about a rapist insurrectionist who's done a little light treason? BEYOND THE PALE! OMG the incivility! Fetch me my fainting couch.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 11:28 PM on July 16 [20 favorites]
I'd just never in my life pay any attention to this. It was a joke, and while it was maaaaybe in bad taste there is no problem with various nazi shits calling for murder all the time while explicitly not as a part of a funny concert. Like these dudes want to kill and they say it openly all the time. As in they are not joking. But that's somehow ok?
Anyway, the worst part about this is looking here where people seem to not understand that american correctness is sometimes really bad.
Finding out that Jack Black is a cop sucks
posted by mayoarchitect at 11:29 PM on July 16 [9 favorites]
Anyway, the worst part about this is looking here where people seem to not understand that american correctness is sometimes really bad.
Finding out that Jack Black is a cop sucks
posted by mayoarchitect at 11:29 PM on July 16 [9 favorites]
In my life, Democrats have been in power for the 4 years of the Carter admin, and the first 2 years each of the Clinton, Obama, and Biden admins. 10 out of 55+. And here we are now.
Democrats aren't very good at it, are they? This politics stuff? Maybe there's too much "when they go low, we go high, no that's not high enough, you're not even left enough to go high, oh now I'm offended" and not enough "let's work together: I'll hold him, you kick him in the nuts, and we'll all sue him for puking on our shoes after we have his puke examined for evidence we can exploit." Figuratively fucking speaking, of course.
posted by pracowity at 11:58 PM on July 16 [13 favorites]
Democrats aren't very good at it, are they? This politics stuff? Maybe there's too much "when they go low, we go high, no that's not high enough, you're not even left enough to go high, oh now I'm offended" and not enough "let's work together: I'll hold him, you kick him in the nuts, and we'll all sue him for puking on our shoes after we have his puke examined for evidence we can exploit." Figuratively fucking speaking, of course.
posted by pracowity at 11:58 PM on July 16 [13 favorites]
Democrats aren't very good at it, are they? This politics stuff? More and more a passage rises in my memory from "America: The Book: The Audiobook" where Jon Stewart asks why Republicans seem more successful with a particularly odious political strategy, before explaining that it's because Republicans are more successful with all political strategy.
posted by MarchHare at 12:11 AM on July 17 [1 favorite]
posted by MarchHare at 12:11 AM on July 17 [1 favorite]
But are they are any good at governing? Rather than kowtowing to bully boys tactics of gaslighting and intimidation (or is this what we're calling 'political strategy' these days?) this is the question the media should be centering rather than seizing on the outrage of the day. The only real issue here is that Kyle Gass stoked that fire rather than the one that persons with a genuine bent to public service should be banging the drums over.
posted by freya_lamb at 1:57 AM on July 17 [1 favorite]
posted by freya_lamb at 1:57 AM on July 17 [1 favorite]
mainstream american progressives do not have an appetite for violence, so this kind of comment seems shocking (and expensive -- maybe KG has alienated a bunch of institutioneers and right-leaning customers). He will likely face serious consequences for making this comment, and he will probably be less likely to make these comments again (or if he does, it won't be on stage with a big audience).
by contrast, the american right wing has gained an appetite for violence, and if KG was a right winger and he made a comment about a democrat getting shot, this might not seem shocking to his audience, they would probably laugh, and if progressives complained, this could even raise his profile. Of course not all conservatives have a taste for violence. Suppose fascist KG was dropped by his agent, he could find another one and cater to his more hardcore fanbase.
so in short, promoting political violence is a career threat for left wingers, but much less of a threat (and maybe even an angle) for right wingers.
If we ignore moral judgments about who is a hypocrite or whether he should have made that joke, I am skeptical that the conditions I outlined above are at all stable. It simply doesn't work for one faction to nurture political violence, while their rivals reject it completely.
posted by serif at 2:29 AM on July 17 [4 favorites]
by contrast, the american right wing has gained an appetite for violence, and if KG was a right winger and he made a comment about a democrat getting shot, this might not seem shocking to his audience, they would probably laugh, and if progressives complained, this could even raise his profile. Of course not all conservatives have a taste for violence. Suppose fascist KG was dropped by his agent, he could find another one and cater to his more hardcore fanbase.
so in short, promoting political violence is a career threat for left wingers, but much less of a threat (and maybe even an angle) for right wingers.
If we ignore moral judgments about who is a hypocrite or whether he should have made that joke, I am skeptical that the conditions I outlined above are at all stable. It simply doesn't work for one faction to nurture political violence, while their rivals reject it completely.
posted by serif at 2:29 AM on July 17 [4 favorites]
Never doubt the instincts of Donald Trump, who just appointed ‘never Trump guy’ as his running mate. .
Not Tenacious D related. But y'all need some cheering up.
posted by Artful Codger at 2:30 AM on July 17 [3 favorites]
... a guy who wore a pantyliner on the side of his head to the RNC. Did you clock this? Earlier photos showed Trump’s ear sporting a much smaller plaster, but for his convention appearance he boldly went with something his imperial tailors had told him was the medical equivalent of a suit spun from pure gold, and an object of ridicule only to the stupid or unintelligent. Seriously, this is history’s most iconic ear injury and it can do whatever it wants. Try imagining the artist Van Gogh could have been if only he’d spokesmodelled for Carefree, instead of wrapping himself in some off-brand rags. If this was a proper cult, all the delegates and everyone at the next Trump rally would also stick pantyliners to the sides of their heads.
Not Tenacious D related. But y'all need some cheering up.
posted by Artful Codger at 2:30 AM on July 17 [3 favorites]
KG was asked what his birthday wish was.
KG then stated what his birthday wish was.
The End.
People are allowed to have wishes.
If wishes were AR-15s it might matter.
posted by chronkite at 3:33 AM on July 17 [9 favorites]
KG then stated what his birthday wish was.
The End.
People are allowed to have wishes.
If wishes were AR-15s it might matter.
posted by chronkite at 3:33 AM on July 17 [9 favorites]
We all understand how the game actually works.
Trump's minions -- from faceless hordes on social media to a certain QAnon Georgia Congresswoman -- can declare on a daily basis that Joe Biden is obviously guilty of many counts of what they will happily remind you, over and over, is the capital crime of treason. Trump himself can repost his minions' demands for military tribunals railroading those who dared to accuse Trump of the crimes that he's committed. Before the blood had even stopped flowing, Republicans in Congress had not only blamed Biden and the Democrats and the media for the shooting but also declared that Biden had "sent the orders" personally. The "some people need killing" guy spoke at the RNC this week.
Because conservatives are protected by the law while not subject to it.
To suggest that conservatives themselves are worthy of death, on the other hand, gets you ostracized and hunted down. A random Home Depot cashier found herself doxxed and fired for making a similar "wish he hadn't missed" comment on Facebook, and they're actively looking for more scalps to claim. I find Black's kneejerk abandonment of Gass appalling, but I also know that he appeared on stage recently in a garish American flag suit vigorously declaring himself an ally of Joe Biden, and knows that Gass's comment would be (and was) leapt upon as ABSOLUTE PROOF that the Intolerant Left are tyrants and monsters and want to murder all patriots in their beds.
Because non-conservatives are subject to the law while not protected by it.
posted by delfin at 4:46 AM on July 17 [13 favorites]
Trump's minions -- from faceless hordes on social media to a certain QAnon Georgia Congresswoman -- can declare on a daily basis that Joe Biden is obviously guilty of many counts of what they will happily remind you, over and over, is the capital crime of treason. Trump himself can repost his minions' demands for military tribunals railroading those who dared to accuse Trump of the crimes that he's committed. Before the blood had even stopped flowing, Republicans in Congress had not only blamed Biden and the Democrats and the media for the shooting but also declared that Biden had "sent the orders" personally. The "some people need killing" guy spoke at the RNC this week.
Because conservatives are protected by the law while not subject to it.
To suggest that conservatives themselves are worthy of death, on the other hand, gets you ostracized and hunted down. A random Home Depot cashier found herself doxxed and fired for making a similar "wish he hadn't missed" comment on Facebook, and they're actively looking for more scalps to claim. I find Black's kneejerk abandonment of Gass appalling, but I also know that he appeared on stage recently in a garish American flag suit vigorously declaring himself an ally of Joe Biden, and knows that Gass's comment would be (and was) leapt upon as ABSOLUTE PROOF that the Intolerant Left are tyrants and monsters and want to murder all patriots in their beds.
Because non-conservatives are subject to the law while not protected by it.
posted by delfin at 4:46 AM on July 17 [13 favorites]
I am hoping that the D's comeback show will open featuring Black and a mysterious, luchador mask-clad, white-bearded guitarist who has no idea who this 'Kyle Gass' was, speaks no English, and is only playing guitar to raise money for his orphanage.
posted by delfin at 5:04 AM on July 17 [5 favorites]
posted by delfin at 5:04 AM on July 17 [5 favorites]
Do you think that treating jokes with a very literal-minded perspective is the way to go ? It is a joke because, of course, no one really wants something bad to happen. This Can be a joke, as in the not in any way related, but somehow pertaining to the conversation, When will you die, which, I want to insist, has got no relationship whatsoever with the case at hand.
posted by nicolin at 5:55 AM on July 17 [1 favorite]
posted by nicolin at 5:55 AM on July 17 [1 favorite]
He should start a band with Fat Mike.
posted by East14thTaco at 6:04 AM on July 17 [1 favorite]
posted by East14thTaco at 6:04 AM on July 17 [1 favorite]
... a guy who wore a pantyliner on the side of his head to the RNC.
That looks nothing like a pantyliner. It's square!
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:20 AM on July 17 [3 favorites]
That looks nothing like a pantyliner. It's square!
posted by tiny frying pan at 6:20 AM on July 17 [3 favorites]
OK. Maybe they trimmed it. Or it's a gauze PostIt note.
And I guess the point here is that there are digs to be made, without wishing death on each other.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:11 AM on July 17
And I guess the point here is that there are digs to be made, without wishing death on each other.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:11 AM on July 17
Right because former Presidents can't get good medical supplies, got it. What's the joke here? We knew he'd have a bandaged ear. I actually thought at first he'd have gauze around his head to be dramatic and then remembered his vanity.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:16 AM on July 17 [1 favorite]
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:16 AM on July 17 [1 favorite]
Jack Black is a cowardly friend and a shitty artistic collaborator. Trump, the GOP, and their obnoxious mouthpieces sowed the wind with their violent rhetoric. They should reap the whirlwind.
posted by KingEdRa at 7:58 AM on July 17 [3 favorites]
posted by KingEdRa at 7:58 AM on July 17 [3 favorites]
*sigh* I'm going to attempt to tackle this one without getting myself in trouble, hahahahah.
On the one hand, assassination is wrong. Not gonna advocate for it in general. I've seen Assassins, it's not like that goes well for people.
On the other hand, given how things are going, I can't say I'd weep in sadness if you-know-who oh, choked to death on a burger either. I'd be relieved that the nightmare is over (at least that part of it, anyway). Per commentary in other threads, at this point I'm feeling hopeless and like the only way out of the incoming doom is, I dunno, bad burger. I cannot say the nice things that politicians and people on TV are saying right now about his miraculous survival.
KG spontaneously said what some people are thinking in the moment, aloud and in public. Probably should not have done that (now he's had the worst birthday ever), but as others pointed out, the Republicans could say that and worse, and would if it were Biden, and nobody'd blink.
I can get Jack Black and the former agent being all "oh shit, MAGA is gonna death threat us all, gotta nuke this shit instantly before it does," but killing the tour and the band over this sure does seem shitty after years of friendship.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:08 AM on July 17 [9 favorites]
On the one hand, assassination is wrong. Not gonna advocate for it in general. I've seen Assassins, it's not like that goes well for people.
On the other hand, given how things are going, I can't say I'd weep in sadness if you-know-who oh, choked to death on a burger either. I'd be relieved that the nightmare is over (at least that part of it, anyway). Per commentary in other threads, at this point I'm feeling hopeless and like the only way out of the incoming doom is, I dunno, bad burger. I cannot say the nice things that politicians and people on TV are saying right now about his miraculous survival.
KG spontaneously said what some people are thinking in the moment, aloud and in public. Probably should not have done that (now he's had the worst birthday ever), but as others pointed out, the Republicans could say that and worse, and would if it were Biden, and nobody'd blink.
I can get Jack Black and the former agent being all "oh shit, MAGA is gonna death threat us all, gotta nuke this shit instantly before it does," but killing the tour and the band over this sure does seem shitty after years of friendship.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:08 AM on July 17 [9 favorites]
I wish they'd made a joint statement.
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:20 AM on July 17 [4 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:20 AM on July 17 [4 favorites]
I wish that, and that the joint statement was just restating KG's joke from the night.
posted by Dysk at 9:44 AM on July 17 [5 favorites]
posted by Dysk at 9:44 AM on July 17 [5 favorites]
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say maybe we ought to just mind our own business in general and not go out on stages saying stuff.
KG’s whole schtick is being a ‘regular slob’ kinda guy..so go be that. If the same birthday wish had been dropped in an open-mic nite bar in Ohio somewhere it would have limited consequences (beyond some MAGA choade punching him)-but say it on your ‘world tour’ and it’s a friendship/career-ender.
Regular slobs shouldn’t be on world-tours, speaking to thousands on stages. Pick a lane.
I hope I live long enough to see the word ‘famous’ become a curse.
posted by chronkite at 9:48 AM on July 17
KG’s whole schtick is being a ‘regular slob’ kinda guy..so go be that. If the same birthday wish had been dropped in an open-mic nite bar in Ohio somewhere it would have limited consequences (beyond some MAGA choade punching him)-but say it on your ‘world tour’ and it’s a friendship/career-ender.
Regular slobs shouldn’t be on world-tours, speaking to thousands on stages. Pick a lane.
I hope I live long enough to see the word ‘famous’ become a curse.
posted by chronkite at 9:48 AM on July 17
I don't think his slobbishness matters. If it had been Taylor Swift, or Thom Yorke, or Henry Rollins who said this, it would still be no big deal.
Also, people occasionally saying that a guy we'd all like to shoot should be shot feels like a small price to pay for having rock stars.
posted by pattern juggler at 9:59 AM on July 17 [2 favorites]
Also, people occasionally saying that a guy we'd all like to shoot should be shot feels like a small price to pay for having rock stars.
posted by pattern juggler at 9:59 AM on July 17 [2 favorites]
Heard similar jokes a dozen times this week, it's like a pretty obvious and common thought to have had. So much hand wringing over a joke over a deadly child-rapist who flagrantly disregards the law and even famously himself joked he could murder someone in public and not lose any votes. But sure... cancel Kyle Glass fora little cathartic joke about an evil piece of shit. My state has several men on death penalty who are not as destructive, criminal, or evil as Trump.
posted by GoblinHoney at 10:37 AM on July 17 [9 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 10:37 AM on July 17 [9 favorites]
If it had been Taylor Swift, or Thom Yorke, or Henry Rollins who said this, it would still be no big deal.
... you have to be joking. If it was TS, they'd call a UN emergency session.
posted by Artful Codger at 10:44 AM on July 17 [9 favorites]
... you have to be joking. If it was TS, they'd call a UN emergency session.
posted by Artful Codger at 10:44 AM on July 17 [9 favorites]
Regular slobs shouldn’t be on world-tours, speaking to thousands on stages. Pick a lane.
So, people with talent shouldn't actually practice and use this talent? Unless, maybe, they're, like, David Bowie level of uniquely good-looking?
Riiiight.
posted by soundguy99 at 11:31 AM on July 17
So, people with talent shouldn't actually practice and use this talent? Unless, maybe, they're, like, David Bowie level of uniquely good-looking?
Riiiight.
posted by soundguy99 at 11:31 AM on July 17
This is a bit of a tangent but I keep thinking back to how Kid Rock's shooting up cases of "LGBT" bud light wasn't broadly considered a real threat and incitement to actual violence
posted by treepour at 11:49 AM on July 17 [9 favorites]
posted by treepour at 11:49 AM on July 17 [9 favorites]
Most places, you run a failed coup the result is you get shot before you can do anymore damage.
The joke is that America has to be so uniquely defective in its political customs that this happened 4 years late and via his own team.
posted by Slackermagee at 11:58 AM on July 17 [2 favorites]
The joke is that America has to be so uniquely defective in its political customs that this happened 4 years late and via his own team.
posted by Slackermagee at 11:58 AM on July 17 [2 favorites]
The whole Kyle Gass thing is mainly faux shock and indignation, a standard move in political jujitsu. If you flipped the story so a Democrat was the target (literally) of a Republican's joke, Democrats would complain and Republicans would tell them to grow a sense of humor.
posted by pracowity at 12:06 PM on July 17 [5 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 12:06 PM on July 17 [5 favorites]
If this was a proper cult, all the delegates and everyone at the next Trump rally would also stick pantyliners to the sides of their heads.
Jezebel: I Can’t Stop Laughing at RNC Delegates Copying Trump’s Ear Bandage
Jezebel: I Can’t Stop Laughing at RNC Delegates Copying Trump’s Ear Bandage
While Twitter users made their little jokes about the undeniably comedic spectacle of it all, Trump supporters and RNC delegates, by contrast, were inspired. During day two of the convention on Tuesday, several were photographed wearing fake bandages or even paper squares over their ears in a demonstration of solidarity with the downtrodden billionaire who is now their official party nominee. According to at least one reporter at the RNC, the iconic accessory is being sold as merch to convention-goers.posted by Lexica at 1:22 PM on July 17 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I saw a photo of an attendee with paper stuck to his ear. And I know I have no working theory of mind for a Trump supporter, but even so it still surprised me. WTF?
posted by nat at 1:59 PM on July 17 [2 favorites]
posted by nat at 1:59 PM on July 17 [2 favorites]
There is a God, and She has a sense of humour! Internet: collect this stuff, for later playback!
posted by Artful Codger at 2:01 PM on July 17
posted by Artful Codger at 2:01 PM on July 17
I mean, they started wearing diapers outside their pants when he was soiling himself in court, so...
posted by kirkaracha at 2:05 PM on July 17 [1 favorite]
posted by kirkaracha at 2:05 PM on July 17 [1 favorite]
I thought everybody knew that saying your birthday wish out loud means it won't come true.
On the other hand, since somebody mentioned Rollins, I saw a youtube snippet* where he took Nugent somewhat to task for saying incendiary stuff about Obama because it might inspire one of his many fans to do something awful.
* I see now it was a brief bit from a Rogan interview. I won't link it, find it yourself if curious.
posted by house-goblin at 2:58 PM on July 17 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, since somebody mentioned Rollins, I saw a youtube snippet* where he took Nugent somewhat to task for saying incendiary stuff about Obama because it might inspire one of his many fans to do something awful.
* I see now it was a brief bit from a Rogan interview. I won't link it, find it yourself if curious.
posted by house-goblin at 2:58 PM on July 17 [1 favorite]
In other news, I didn't know that in certain parts of the US martyrs is pronounced mart-ears.
posted by house-goblin at 3:03 PM on July 17
posted by house-goblin at 3:03 PM on July 17
I thought the ear bandage looked like a tiny custom MyPillow.
I agree that that the bad part of this is Jack Black being a wuss about it. Sunday morning a Republican was on the radio saying “if the bullet had been a couple inches to one side, we’d be having a different conversation “ and I turned to Mrs. Caviar and said “yeah, like where’s the party right??” She laughed even though no one really wants dead politicians everywhere. But I mean, if anyone deserves it (ymmv), it’s Trump. He’s spent the last 8 years deliberately and forcefully trying to make the world a worse place and urging violence which has gotten people killed. Shit, just diverting COVID resources from blue states is a fucking crime against humanity. Zero tears from me if he ended up dead for whatever reason. I feel way worse about the kid shooter being dead tbh.
posted by caviar2d2 at 3:25 PM on July 17 [8 favorites]
I agree that that the bad part of this is Jack Black being a wuss about it. Sunday morning a Republican was on the radio saying “if the bullet had been a couple inches to one side, we’d be having a different conversation “ and I turned to Mrs. Caviar and said “yeah, like where’s the party right??” She laughed even though no one really wants dead politicians everywhere. But I mean, if anyone deserves it (ymmv), it’s Trump. He’s spent the last 8 years deliberately and forcefully trying to make the world a worse place and urging violence which has gotten people killed. Shit, just diverting COVID resources from blue states is a fucking crime against humanity. Zero tears from me if he ended up dead for whatever reason. I feel way worse about the kid shooter being dead tbh.
posted by caviar2d2 at 3:25 PM on July 17 [8 favorites]
several were photographed wearing fake bandages or even paper squares over their ears in a demonstration of solidarity
In any other reality, I would assume this was absolutely fake. Now, I'm not even surprised.
posted by dg at 10:33 PM on July 17 [1 favorite]
In any other reality, I would assume this was absolutely fake. Now, I'm not even surprised.
posted by dg at 10:33 PM on July 17 [1 favorite]
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posted by jaymzjulian at 2:06 PM on July 16 [57 favorites]