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July 25, 2024 8:22 AM Subscribe
“It’s important that aquatic deoxygenation be added to the list of Planetary Boundaries,” said Rose. “This will help support and focus global monitoring, research, and policy efforts to help our aquatic ecosystems and, in turn, society at large.”
Across all aquatic ecosystems, from streams and rivers, lakes, reservoirs, and ponds to estuaries, coasts, and the open ocean, dissolved oxygen (DO) concentrations have rapidly and substantially declined in recent decades. [rensselaer polytechnic]
[nature:] “Below the sunlit euphotic zone, oxygen production is low due to minimal or the complete absence of photosynthesis”
pace previously
[nature:] “Below the sunlit euphotic zone, oxygen production is low due to minimal or the complete absence of photosynthesis”
pace previously
TFA doesn't say anything about ocean acidification, are these related at all?
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 8:55 AM on July 25 [1 favorite]
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 8:55 AM on July 25 [1 favorite]
ChatGPT says not directly, i.e. atmospheric CO₂ goes to carbonic acid in seawater (CO₂ + H₂O → H₂CO)
posted by torokunai at 9:16 AM on July 25 [2 favorites]
posted by torokunai at 9:16 AM on July 25 [2 favorites]
We've had few posts on planetary boundaries but the Will Steffen obit discussed their recent update, and its become the langauge of degrowth circles.
There are definitely other known planetary boundaries not discussed, like how thermodynamics limits the economy independent of technology, but at least that one cannot cause human extinction since others would definitely cause our extinction first.
There are three planetary boundaries currently ranked more dangerous than climate change: novel entities like plastics and pfas, biosphere integrity, and biochemical flows like fertilizer washing phosphorus into the oceans. Among these, biosphere integrity depneds upon these two & climate, but also includes land miss-use. Also these & climate might impact us most severely though biosphere integrity. Also, these are all braod categories so likely all need more nuanced discussion
Anyways, there is a judgement call here but maybe this particular planetary boundaries makes more sense alone or being subsumed into biochemical flows, which afaik does not currently discuss O2 or CO2 much.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:39 AM on July 25 [2 favorites]
There are definitely other known planetary boundaries not discussed, like how thermodynamics limits the economy independent of technology, but at least that one cannot cause human extinction since others would definitely cause our extinction first.
There are three planetary boundaries currently ranked more dangerous than climate change: novel entities like plastics and pfas, biosphere integrity, and biochemical flows like fertilizer washing phosphorus into the oceans. Among these, biosphere integrity depneds upon these two & climate, but also includes land miss-use. Also these & climate might impact us most severely though biosphere integrity. Also, these are all braod categories so likely all need more nuanced discussion
Anyways, there is a judgement call here but maybe this particular planetary boundaries makes more sense alone or being subsumed into biochemical flows, which afaik does not currently discuss O2 or CO2 much.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:39 AM on July 25 [2 favorites]
(the formula above should be CO₂ + H₂O → H₂CO₃, forgive me, my last chemistry class was 40 years ago)
posted by torokunai at 10:13 AM on July 25 [3 favorites]
posted by torokunai at 10:13 AM on July 25 [3 favorites]
Reasonably Everything Happens, i meant to also link the Nature paper, which is linked in tfa, below the fold. apologies, therein's this relation [supra:] "anthropogenic warming is reducing the frequency and intensity of gas exchange between water masses & the atmosphere" (wrt llm climate impact statement, oblique, thank you torokunai) to acidification [noaa; wiki]
jeffburdges, including Oxygen in biogeochemical flows would at least be a step forward "Currently, the framework considers nitrogen (N) and phosphorus (P)" [scienceadvances]
posted by HearHere at 10:56 AM on July 25 [4 favorites]
jeffburdges, including Oxygen in biogeochemical flows would at least be a step forward "Currently, the framework considers nitrogen (N) and phosphorus (P)" [scienceadvances]
posted by HearHere at 10:56 AM on July 25 [4 favorites]
Great title HearHere.
I was asked recently if a river could absorb CO2 (as part of a large landscape solution), and afaict flowing freshwaters are already CO2-saturated (or nearly so). Which made me wonder if there's some stoichiometric or balance that results in falling O2. I think too often 'news' focuses solely on warming but many of the effects I'm reading of (and likely seeing) is primarily or largely CO2 alone.
Reasonably Everything Happens, related aspect is ocean acidification results in sound travelling faster (US Navy research - can find a link later).
A planetary boundary not considered is a human-useful atmosphere as there is a (unknown but likely sub 700pp) point where CO2 affects cognition. Already the level is affecting plant biochemistry (and growth) - but there are no good effects.
posted by unearthed at 12:08 PM on July 25 [4 favorites]
I was asked recently if a river could absorb CO2 (as part of a large landscape solution), and afaict flowing freshwaters are already CO2-saturated (or nearly so). Which made me wonder if there's some stoichiometric or balance that results in falling O2. I think too often 'news' focuses solely on warming but many of the effects I'm reading of (and likely seeing) is primarily or largely CO2 alone.
Reasonably Everything Happens, related aspect is ocean acidification results in sound travelling faster (US Navy research - can find a link later).
A planetary boundary not considered is a human-useful atmosphere as there is a (unknown but likely sub 700pp) point where CO2 affects cognition. Already the level is affecting plant biochemistry (and growth) - but there are no good effects.
posted by unearthed at 12:08 PM on July 25 [4 favorites]
So among dissolved salts, there is definately an effect (common ion) whereby water (or another solvent) becomes saturated in the common ion and thereby strands or lowers the effective solubility of the salts, but for dissolved gasses, it is not as straight forward. the biggest three factors effecting oxygen concentration are temperature, mixing/circulation of unsaturated waters, and the generation or use of oxygen by marine organisms.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 12:55 PM on July 25 [5 favorites]
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 12:55 PM on July 25 [5 favorites]
This and acidification are what scare me most about climate change, more than any of the other changes. We always seem to take the ocean for granted. If the ocean dies, it all falls faster before our eyes than we could imagine.
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:32 AM on July 26 [2 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 7:32 AM on July 26 [2 favorites]
ChatGPT says …
Strong scowl and side-eye at referencing ChatGPT for factual information, especially in a thread about a science topic. Maybe it can help you find an actual source using a natural language query more easily than in the past or something (in which case, the actual source should be read to verify accuracy of ChatGPT’s summary and then cited directly), but ChatGPT is not designed to be factually accurate, just to sound like natural language.
posted by eviemath at 8:25 PM on July 26 [2 favorites]
Strong scowl and side-eye at referencing ChatGPT for factual information, especially in a thread about a science topic. Maybe it can help you find an actual source using a natural language query more easily than in the past or something (in which case, the actual source should be read to verify accuracy of ChatGPT’s summary and then cited directly), but ChatGPT is not designed to be factually accurate, just to sound like natural language.
posted by eviemath at 8:25 PM on July 26 [2 favorites]
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posted by doctornemo at 8:39 AM on July 25 [1 favorite]