Trump to Believers: Only need to vote one more time
July 26, 2024 10:08 PM Subscribe
Clip: In four years, you won’t have to vote again.
Some more detail -- but no holding accountable -- is in this Washington Post article.
Some more detail -- but no holding accountable -- is in this Washington Post article.
Too bad we don't have a free press that might have asked him more about it.
posted by NotLost at 10:14 PM on July 26 [25 favorites]
posted by NotLost at 10:14 PM on July 26 [25 favorites]
Or the press could have made his comment the topic of the article, with a blaring headline.
posted by NotLost at 10:15 PM on July 26 [8 favorites]
posted by NotLost at 10:15 PM on July 26 [8 favorites]
"Might he possibly be thinking"?
Probably not.
Not coherently, anyway.
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 10:24 PM on July 26 [4 favorites]
Probably not.
Not coherently, anyway.
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 10:24 PM on July 26 [4 favorites]
Once again, saying the quiet part out loud because there are no consequences if he's that level of honest.
I'm not even shocked, he's basically been indicating he'll become ruler for life if he gets elected again for like a year.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:25 PM on July 26 [15 favorites]
I'm not even shocked, he's basically been indicating he'll become ruler for life if he gets elected again for like a year.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:25 PM on July 26 [15 favorites]
Might he possibly be thinking "you only need to vote for me one more time"? Like, maybe this was a Freudian slip that suggests he knows that some people really don't like him?
There are all sorts of potential cognitive issues that may happen when a 78 year old man is shot in the head. Does anyone know if he's seen a real doctor?
posted by mikelieman at 10:53 PM on July 26 [3 favorites]
There are all sorts of potential cognitive issues that may happen when a 78 year old man is shot in the head. Does anyone know if he's seen a real doctor?
posted by mikelieman at 10:53 PM on July 26 [3 favorites]
So, I hate to give the guy the benefit of any doubt, but about 20 minutes before the excerpt linked in the post Trump is claiming that many Christians don't vote, and he is exhorting them to come out and vote. The excerpt seems to be him returning to that point, and then reassuring them that they'll be able to return to their previous complacency after his term. I don't think he's telling the crowd he intends to suspend democracy.
posted by Reverend John at 11:00 PM on July 26 [23 favorites]
"... and by the way Christians have to vote, you know. I don't want to scold you. But do you know that Christians do not vote proportionately they don't vote like they should they not big voters. You know, who else are and voters the NRA endorsed me. very powerfully strongest endorsement they can give National Rifle Association. people that own guns and rifles or not big voters they have to vote. if you don't vote. We're not going to win the election if you do vote we're going to win in a landslide too big to rig we're going to win. in a landslide. but Christians, you know, you go to church every Sunday. and Pastor Paula White and all of the people I understand they're doing lock boxes in churches where people don't even have to go to vote They can now vote in church. and if you do that we're going to win by numbers that nobody's ever seen before, you know, you have tremendous power, but you just don't know that. but you have to use that power. Christians are a group. That's known not to vote very much. You have to go out. at least this election. Just give us and get us into that beautiful White House. vote for your congressmen and women vote for your Senators. We will change. this country for the better This country will be great again like never before you got to vote."I don't doubt that he would like to institute fascism, but I don't think he's declaring his intent to do so here. I think this is just an example of his rambling incoherent style, possible suggesting increasing senility.
posted by Reverend John at 11:00 PM on July 26 [23 favorites]
The far right have been talking about this for a while now. They call it "Red Caesar": the idea of a right-wing strongman taking power and putting an end to the Constitution. In a single word: fascism. It is not a joke or a conspiracy theory: it is an actual thing that far-right "intellectuals" have been discussing and advocating for at least a couple of years now. And we have seen for several decades that today's far-right fringe kooky ideas are tomorrow's mainstream Republican platform, again and again. In this case, it looks like tomorrow has arrived. Someone has whispered the idea in his ear, and Trump is now working to make it palatable for his base.
I was recently surprised to see a comment in another thread insisting that to say the U.S. is at risk of slipping into fascism is a ridiculous hyperbole. It is not. The fascists are here, they have a figurehead, and they have a plan. The only thing that stopped them last time was the number of establishment Republicans within the administration, the so-called "adults in the room", who refused to give the fascists free rein. Those people have now been mostly purged from the party and will not be part of a second Trump administration. If Trump is able to take office this time, the fascists pulling his strings really do seem to plan to ensure that he, and presumably whoever they choose to succeed him, won't have to worry about winning an election ever again.
Vote, organize, and donate like your right to vote depends on it, because it literally does.
posted by biogeo at 11:05 PM on July 26 [47 favorites]
I was recently surprised to see a comment in another thread insisting that to say the U.S. is at risk of slipping into fascism is a ridiculous hyperbole. It is not. The fascists are here, they have a figurehead, and they have a plan. The only thing that stopped them last time was the number of establishment Republicans within the administration, the so-called "adults in the room", who refused to give the fascists free rein. Those people have now been mostly purged from the party and will not be part of a second Trump administration. If Trump is able to take office this time, the fascists pulling his strings really do seem to plan to ensure that he, and presumably whoever they choose to succeed him, won't have to worry about winning an election ever again.
Vote, organize, and donate like your right to vote depends on it, because it literally does.
posted by biogeo at 11:05 PM on July 26 [47 favorites]
Trump described Harris as a “radical left person” who “destroyed San Francisco.”
But Harris, who served as the top prosecutor in San Francisco and was later elected California attorney general, has a more complicated political story.
Seriously, in the Washington Post article, those two sentences are next to one another.
The "faith-based event" was Turning Point USA's "Believers' Summit" and WaPo doesn't delve into TPUSA, or why his message was so well-received there; the org is a campus-based alt-right hate group, known for attacking teachers . In April: "Two Turning Point USA workers have admitted to charges from an October incident in which they followed and filmed a queer Arizona State University instructor on campus, with one of them eventually pushing the instructor face first onto the concrete."
His appearance at this event happened the day after Harris's keynote address at the American Federation of Teachers' 88th national convention in Houston. The American Federation of Teachers was the first labor union to formally endorse Harris (and now I have to go fix my mistake in the Harris thread).
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:08 PM on July 26 [7 favorites]
But Harris, who served as the top prosecutor in San Francisco and was later elected California attorney general, has a more complicated political story.
Seriously, in the Washington Post article, those two sentences are next to one another.
The "faith-based event" was Turning Point USA's "Believers' Summit" and WaPo doesn't delve into TPUSA, or why his message was so well-received there; the org is a campus-based alt-right hate group, known for attacking teachers . In April: "Two Turning Point USA workers have admitted to charges from an October incident in which they followed and filmed a queer Arizona State University instructor on campus, with one of them eventually pushing the instructor face first onto the concrete."
His appearance at this event happened the day after Harris's keynote address at the American Federation of Teachers' 88th national convention in Houston. The American Federation of Teachers was the first labor union to formally endorse Harris (and now I have to go fix my mistake in the Harris thread).
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:08 PM on July 26 [7 favorites]
I don't think he's declaring his intent
You may be right: I don't think Trump is necessarily declaring his intentions. I don't think Trump actually gives a shit about any of this as long as he gets to feed his narcissistic void, and as such his only intentions are to say and do whatever will let him him feel important and powerful. But I think he is revealing the ideas that the fascists he surrounds himself with have been discussing with him, and I think that's actually more frightening.
posted by biogeo at 11:15 PM on July 26 [29 favorites]
I don't doubt that he would like to institute fascism, but I don't think he's declaring his intent to do so here. I think this is just an example of his rambling incoherent style, possible suggesting increasing senility.
The part where he says "It'll be fixed" by the next time, I think even if he doesn't mean election rigging, he at least means some level of dismantling the federal government and/or court packing ala Project 2025, such that even if democrats are elected, it will be of little consequence. It's a pretty disturbing proposition even if it's not taken to be directly about elections- the government will be so transformed that it won't even matter who wins in future elections?
posted by p3t3 at 11:20 PM on July 26 [12 favorites]
The part where he says "It'll be fixed" by the next time, I think even if he doesn't mean election rigging, he at least means some level of dismantling the federal government and/or court packing ala Project 2025, such that even if democrats are elected, it will be of little consequence. It's a pretty disturbing proposition even if it's not taken to be directly about elections- the government will be so transformed that it won't even matter who wins in future elections?
posted by p3t3 at 11:20 PM on July 26 [12 favorites]
He either knew what he was saying which is problematic or he didn't know what he was saying which is differently problematic.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 11:57 PM on July 26 [24 favorites]
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 11:57 PM on July 26 [24 favorites]
Trump described Harris as a “radical left person” who “destroyed San Francisco.”
The Harris campaign's response was that Trump sounds "like someone you wouldn't want to be sitting next to in a restaurant'. That's exactly the right note to strike, I think.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:28 AM on July 27 [19 favorites]
The Harris campaign's response was that Trump sounds "like someone you wouldn't want to be sitting next to in a restaurant'. That's exactly the right note to strike, I think.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:28 AM on July 27 [19 favorites]
His decline is accelerating. I am starting to worry that he is not going to make it to the election.
If he is going to have a full blown narcissism, stress, and dementia driven mental breakdown in public, or merely drop dead, can he at least hold off on it until much closer to election day when it is too late for the Repubs to recover (though it may well be already). Or, even better, just after it.
posted by Pouteria at 12:54 AM on July 27 [1 favorite]
If he is going to have a full blown narcissism, stress, and dementia driven mental breakdown in public, or merely drop dead, can he at least hold off on it until much closer to election day when it is too late for the Repubs to recover (though it may well be already). Or, even better, just after it.
posted by Pouteria at 12:54 AM on July 27 [1 favorite]
Not clear to me who authored this image (source) but I want to see it show up literally everywhere (chef's kiss)...
posted by zaixfeep at 1:11 AM on July 27 [2 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 1:11 AM on July 27 [2 favorites]
It is not a joke or a conspiracy theory: it is an actual thing that far-right "intellectuals" have been discussing and advocating for at least a couple of years now. And we have seen for several decades that today's far-right fringe kooky ideas are tomorrow's mainstream Republican platform, again and again. In this case, it looks like tomorrow has arrived. Someone has whispered the idea in his ear, and Trump is now working to make it palatable for his base.
yes exactly this. i do get the motivation to want to explain what he said away by speculating on what he might have meant; it's hard to conceive of an end to elections in america. but consider that we have seen an end to many, many things under this man's tenure, and under the scotus he stacked in his favor, that seemed rock solid. and as mentioned, this isn't coming out of nowhere. it's an actual plan the far right have been pushing for a long time.
so however real or imagined we might think the end of elections may be, considering his track record, it probably doesn't do us any favours to not err on the side of caution and motivate others to vote like the entire country depends on it
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:42 AM on July 27 [5 favorites]
yes exactly this. i do get the motivation to want to explain what he said away by speculating on what he might have meant; it's hard to conceive of an end to elections in america. but consider that we have seen an end to many, many things under this man's tenure, and under the scotus he stacked in his favor, that seemed rock solid. and as mentioned, this isn't coming out of nowhere. it's an actual plan the far right have been pushing for a long time.
so however real or imagined we might think the end of elections may be, considering his track record, it probably doesn't do us any favours to not err on the side of caution and motivate others to vote like the entire country depends on it
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:42 AM on July 27 [5 favorites]
Vote, organize, and donate like your right to vote depends on it, because it literally does
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but this has been the claim for 8+ years now. That claim has been pressed on MetaFilter, embedded in emails and texts and calls to me, a constant presence in conversation, etc. "It's the end, give us all your money/spend all your free time on saving democracy" isn't a sustainable message, particularly when coupled with the constant bitter and unhinged ranting here about how America never was a democracy, it's all already over, there is no hope, it doesn't matter if the Democrats win because of [genocide/student loans/housing/racism/gerrymandering], etc. Many MeFites have been ringing multiple alarm bells so loudly, for so long, that it's Boy Who Cried Wolf Day over here every single day. A diverse community will have diverse opinions, but IMHO, there's a nice, steady drumbeat of doom here.
I don't follow politics threads closely enough (usually have them hidden, in fact) to know if this happens, but I wish more MeFites acknowledged the double-edged sword of MetaFilter. I'm not saying a lack of threaded comments and user blocking killed democracy in the United States, but having to see nonsense without end from the self-soothing doomsayers here has at times impacted my ability to engage (at all) with contemporary U.S. politics. "It's a terrible country/guess we should try to save it" is a beloved song around here, and it sucks.
posted by cupcakeninja at 2:46 AM on July 27 [9 favorites]
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but this has been the claim for 8+ years now. That claim has been pressed on MetaFilter, embedded in emails and texts and calls to me, a constant presence in conversation, etc. "It's the end, give us all your money/spend all your free time on saving democracy" isn't a sustainable message, particularly when coupled with the constant bitter and unhinged ranting here about how America never was a democracy, it's all already over, there is no hope, it doesn't matter if the Democrats win because of [genocide/student loans/housing/racism/gerrymandering], etc. Many MeFites have been ringing multiple alarm bells so loudly, for so long, that it's Boy Who Cried Wolf Day over here every single day. A diverse community will have diverse opinions, but IMHO, there's a nice, steady drumbeat of doom here.
I don't follow politics threads closely enough (usually have them hidden, in fact) to know if this happens, but I wish more MeFites acknowledged the double-edged sword of MetaFilter. I'm not saying a lack of threaded comments and user blocking killed democracy in the United States, but having to see nonsense without end from the self-soothing doomsayers here has at times impacted my ability to engage (at all) with contemporary U.S. politics. "It's a terrible country/guess we should try to save it" is a beloved song around here, and it sucks.
posted by cupcakeninja at 2:46 AM on July 27 [9 favorites]
but I wish more MeFites acknowledged the double-edged sword of MetaFilter.
uh, fascism?
Full on fascism? I'm not sure I understand what you mean when this, for the first time since the 1930s fascism is a full on threat in the US and this website has been warning about it for years.
I'm Canadian and I am appalled that a treasonous seditionist can actually be on the ballot for president.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 3:32 AM on July 27 [10 favorites]
uh, fascism?
Full on fascism? I'm not sure I understand what you mean when this, for the first time since the 1930s fascism is a full on threat in the US and this website has been warning about it for years.
I'm Canadian and I am appalled that a treasonous seditionist can actually be on the ballot for president.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 3:32 AM on July 27 [10 favorites]
Between announcing his intent to be a literal dictator from day one, the conservative plans to eliminate presidential term limits, the systematic stripping of voting rights from anyone that might disagree (which now even includes adults without children?!?), trying to get armed ‘poll watchers’ to pressure voters and Trump’s love of his fellow dictators freedoms; it is pretty clear that ending American democracy as we know it is one of his goals.
I doubt that they’d go as far as eliminating elections, what we will see instead are sham elections like you find in Russia and China and other iron fisted ruled countries. How can he not want to crow about such sham results? “America loves me! Look at those numbers!”
posted by rambling wanderlust at 3:57 AM on July 27 [5 favorites]
I doubt that they’d go as far as eliminating elections, what we will see instead are sham elections like you find in Russia and China and other iron fisted ruled countries. How can he not want to crow about such sham results? “America loves me! Look at those numbers!”
posted by rambling wanderlust at 3:57 AM on July 27 [5 favorites]
but this has been the claim for 8+ years now. That claim has been pressed on MetaFilter, embedded in emails and texts and calls to me, a constant presence in conversation,
I completely understand and am sympathetic to what you're saying here, particularly the emotional load of what feels like the need to continuously fight against a doom spiral.
That said, the right wing and conservatism has gotten objectively worse for not just 8, but the past 24 years. I remember when a half-my-age me thought George W. Bush was the absolute nadir of politics -- a know-nothing nepo baby (using that term retroactively) that was in the pocket of Big Oil and had by any measure failed at everything he'd ever tried.
Oh, how naïve I was!
They keep getting worse. Trump 2016 was awful, but post-COVID, post-QANON, post-SCOTUS-takeover, pre-Project 2025, the conservatives have managed to become even more apocalyptic. My November 2016 concerns about Trump, were I to have written them out on a piece of paper, seem childishly trivial compared to my July 2024 concerns about Trump.
I listen to Knowledge Fight (a podcast that keeps tabs on Alex Jones and what's going on in the loony fringe of the conservative movement via him), and periodically they do a historical jump and do an episode from 10, 15, 20 years ago. And it's word for word identical, more or less, to the loony conservative fringe today. The fringe has been mainstreamed substantially, but it's hard to make a case that the Left has gotten "more left" over the past quarter-century. Some gains in equal rights have been made, sure, but it's not like the mainstream Left has become a parody of its former self.
The Right has.
The language you use when it is As Bad As it Gets is a certain set of language. You don't anticipate, when it's As Bad As it Gets, it's going to get worse. It's As Bad As it Gets, so you talk about it in those terms.
It feels like it's been the same doomerism talk for a long time. But that's because we keep thinking it's As Bad As it Gets, so we're using that language. And then they somehow find a way to become even worse, so the As Bad As it Gets bar gets lowered even further, but we don't have more language for that! We can only repeat As Bad As it Gets!
It's an exhausting cycle, but it's in response to a legitimately escalating problem.
posted by Shepherd at 4:05 AM on July 27 [24 favorites]
I completely understand and am sympathetic to what you're saying here, particularly the emotional load of what feels like the need to continuously fight against a doom spiral.
That said, the right wing and conservatism has gotten objectively worse for not just 8, but the past 24 years. I remember when a half-my-age me thought George W. Bush was the absolute nadir of politics -- a know-nothing nepo baby (using that term retroactively) that was in the pocket of Big Oil and had by any measure failed at everything he'd ever tried.
Oh, how naïve I was!
They keep getting worse. Trump 2016 was awful, but post-COVID, post-QANON, post-SCOTUS-takeover, pre-Project 2025, the conservatives have managed to become even more apocalyptic. My November 2016 concerns about Trump, were I to have written them out on a piece of paper, seem childishly trivial compared to my July 2024 concerns about Trump.
I listen to Knowledge Fight (a podcast that keeps tabs on Alex Jones and what's going on in the loony fringe of the conservative movement via him), and periodically they do a historical jump and do an episode from 10, 15, 20 years ago. And it's word for word identical, more or less, to the loony conservative fringe today. The fringe has been mainstreamed substantially, but it's hard to make a case that the Left has gotten "more left" over the past quarter-century. Some gains in equal rights have been made, sure, but it's not like the mainstream Left has become a parody of its former self.
The Right has.
The language you use when it is As Bad As it Gets is a certain set of language. You don't anticipate, when it's As Bad As it Gets, it's going to get worse. It's As Bad As it Gets, so you talk about it in those terms.
It feels like it's been the same doomerism talk for a long time. But that's because we keep thinking it's As Bad As it Gets, so we're using that language. And then they somehow find a way to become even worse, so the As Bad As it Gets bar gets lowered even further, but we don't have more language for that! We can only repeat As Bad As it Gets!
It's an exhausting cycle, but it's in response to a legitimately escalating problem.
posted by Shepherd at 4:05 AM on July 27 [24 favorites]
I'm not saying a lack of threaded comments and user blocking killed democracy in the United States
Well that’s a relief!
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:20 AM on July 27 [2 favorites]
Well that’s a relief!
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:20 AM on July 27 [2 favorites]
We have an entire thread in MetaTalk devoted to the utility of doomsaying.
I think the issue here is not that people are saying we're doomed, it's that the leading presidential candidate is promising there won't be another election after he wins. That seems fairly plain; the best case scenario is that he's just babbling, which considering that we just got a president to leave the race because we all thought he was losing his shit, seems bad as well.
I'm sorry that people get bleak when they talk about Trump, but the reality around him is quite bleak, and he doesn't seem to be going away, ever. I suspect that if Harris wins, they'll wheel him out in 2028 for even more of this bullshit, and keep it going until he's just a Futurama-style talking head in a glass jar.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:24 AM on July 27 [5 favorites]
I think the issue here is not that people are saying we're doomed, it's that the leading presidential candidate is promising there won't be another election after he wins. That seems fairly plain; the best case scenario is that he's just babbling, which considering that we just got a president to leave the race because we all thought he was losing his shit, seems bad as well.
I'm sorry that people get bleak when they talk about Trump, but the reality around him is quite bleak, and he doesn't seem to be going away, ever. I suspect that if Harris wins, they'll wheel him out in 2028 for even more of this bullshit, and keep it going until he's just a Futurama-style talking head in a glass jar.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:24 AM on July 27 [5 favorites]
Thanks, Shepherd, I appreciated that perspective.
posted by cupcakeninja at 4:27 AM on July 27 [1 favorite]
posted by cupcakeninja at 4:27 AM on July 27 [1 favorite]
Here's an honest question which will probably out me as some kind of bad person, but, well, nevertheless:
What is the point of individual donations to national politicians' campaigns? Do they actually help? Or is their main utility just as a proxy measure of voter enthusiasm?
I've put in a bunch of my time helping canvass for certain politicians I believe in, and I've definitely given money to local candidates. But donating to national level politicians? I'm a big fat NAH, and I'd like to know if there's any reason for me to change that.
Mainly my reason for not donating is I don't have a lot of money. Not compared to the politicians or their mega donors. I don't think my donation actually matters?
posted by MiraK at 4:42 AM on July 27 [1 favorite]
What is the point of individual donations to national politicians' campaigns? Do they actually help? Or is their main utility just as a proxy measure of voter enthusiasm?
I've put in a bunch of my time helping canvass for certain politicians I believe in, and I've definitely given money to local candidates. But donating to national level politicians? I'm a big fat NAH, and I'd like to know if there's any reason for me to change that.
Mainly my reason for not donating is I don't have a lot of money. Not compared to the politicians or their mega donors. I don't think my donation actually matters?
posted by MiraK at 4:42 AM on July 27 [1 favorite]
cupcakeninja, I have concluded: "Forget it 'cake, it's Chinatown MetaFilter US Politics discussions." It won't ever change, it will just wear out the folks who fight it and chase them away and eventually the hive mind will truly speak with one voice.
I take our authoritartian threat very seriously, but I prefer to separate panicking and crapping my pants (i.e. privately) from planning, discussing and taking action. That's just how I roll, others will of course feel differently and I acknowledge that.
If any of you are dissatisfied here and want a discussion board that is more your speed, you could always start your own subreddit or MeFi-equivalent withblackjack the 'Class War' card game and hookers enthusiastically-consenting, ethically and competitively compensated sex workers. ;-) (apologies to Futurama's Bender)
posted by zaixfeep at 4:53 AM on July 27 [3 favorites]
I take our authoritartian threat very seriously, but I prefer to separate panicking and crapping my pants (i.e. privately) from planning, discussing and taking action. That's just how I roll, others will of course feel differently and I acknowledge that.
If any of you are dissatisfied here and want a discussion board that is more your speed, you could always start your own subreddit or MeFi-equivalent with
posted by zaixfeep at 4:53 AM on July 27 [3 favorites]
A single-link post of doomscaring? And then with Mefites shaming other Metafites? We can do so, so much better.
posted by Melismata at 4:53 AM on July 27 [4 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 4:53 AM on July 27 [4 favorites]
When a great many modest individual donations build to the kind of totals we've seen coming in for Kamala Harris this week ($81m from small donors on day one alone), the accumulated sum certainly matters. Of course, if you'd sooner donate at a local level instead, that's great too - it all helps.
Small donations do have an additional proxy role as a measure of enthusiasm for the candidate, but we shouldn't dismiss that aspect as irrelevant. Seeing that enthusiasm helps to motivate other supporters, both in terms of adding their own cash donations and getting involved in the campaign.
posted by Paul Slade at 5:00 AM on July 27 [2 favorites]
Small donations do have an additional proxy role as a measure of enthusiasm for the candidate, but we shouldn't dismiss that aspect as irrelevant. Seeing that enthusiasm helps to motivate other supporters, both in terms of adding their own cash donations and getting involved in the campaign.
posted by Paul Slade at 5:00 AM on July 27 [2 favorites]
I think it can be both. Like democracy can be at risk continually for many years for many different reasons AND it can also be really ineffective and exhausting messaging. I try to think of democracy as like owning a house. You probably weren’t the first person to own your particular house and you certainly won’t be the last, but like any homeowner learns real quickly, you don’t just get to buy the house and live in it. The house needs to be maintained. Sometimes you get a problem every year. One year the roof needs repair, another year your entire ac system fails, maybe one year you get termites. And every time it is super stressful and risks making your house pretty unlivable. And yes you will complain about your various house problems to like all your friends. Sometimes you can outsource your house issues to someone else to take care of, sometimes you take care of it yourself, but either way ownership definitely has some benefits over renting and paying a landlord.
As much as I would love to live in a set it and forget it democracy. I don’t think that’s the one I live in, so like home maintenance, I sort of just do my best to accept that the problems won’t just go away and make my decisions from there.
posted by donut_princess at 5:27 AM on July 27 [4 favorites]
As much as I would love to live in a set it and forget it democracy. I don’t think that’s the one I live in, so like home maintenance, I sort of just do my best to accept that the problems won’t just go away and make my decisions from there.
posted by donut_princess at 5:27 AM on July 27 [4 favorites]
I wouldn't actually call this doomscaring; this is something Trump said, and that's bad, but there's still time to prevent that plan from happening (and the surge in popularity Harris is enjoying gives one hope).
It also gives us all a talking point if we're having conversations with friends or relatives who are still supporting Trump if we want to try talking them out of it, one that would work on two fronts - the obvious "so it sounds like he kind of wants to be a dictator by saying that", but also "hey, you're a Christian and you vote in every election - Trump thinks Christians don't ever vote, though, he says it right here. I don't know, but it doesn't sound like he respects you."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:30 AM on July 27 [4 favorites]
It also gives us all a talking point if we're having conversations with friends or relatives who are still supporting Trump if we want to try talking them out of it, one that would work on two fronts - the obvious "so it sounds like he kind of wants to be a dictator by saying that", but also "hey, you're a Christian and you vote in every election - Trump thinks Christians don't ever vote, though, he says it right here. I don't know, but it doesn't sound like he respects you."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:30 AM on July 27 [4 favorites]
So in this clip DJT says, "I love you Christians (I'm not a Christian)." Am I missing something? I thought the Bible-brandishing bully claimed to be one of them.
posted by kozad at 5:48 AM on July 27
posted by kozad at 5:48 AM on July 27
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but this has been the claim for 8+ years now.
Fascism isn’t a “boom, let’s have a war now” kind of threat. It’s a slow walk that starts with ideas spread in private places, then dog whistles and fig leaves, then fascist friendly policies and laws, and then finally the end of democracy.
I know no one wants to start making comparisons to the world in the 1930s, but the comparisons are apt. The moustachioed villain of the time didn’t just spring on the scene. The way to that horrible business was paved with the intellectual elites flirting with the ideas of fascism and eugenics in their drawing rooms and parlours well before shit got real dark.
Putting off what’s happening as just doomsaying is, unfortunately, indulging in exceptionalism. But no matter how much people say “we have no troubles here”, this kind of thing can happen anywhere. I’m not American but I’m looking at my own Canadian backyard right now with the same worries, and hearing the same kind of exceptionalism. We take our respective democracies for granted at our own peril.
posted by eekernohan at 6:01 AM on July 27 [4 favorites]
Fascism isn’t a “boom, let’s have a war now” kind of threat. It’s a slow walk that starts with ideas spread in private places, then dog whistles and fig leaves, then fascist friendly policies and laws, and then finally the end of democracy.
I know no one wants to start making comparisons to the world in the 1930s, but the comparisons are apt. The moustachioed villain of the time didn’t just spring on the scene. The way to that horrible business was paved with the intellectual elites flirting with the ideas of fascism and eugenics in their drawing rooms and parlours well before shit got real dark.
Putting off what’s happening as just doomsaying is, unfortunately, indulging in exceptionalism. But no matter how much people say “we have no troubles here”, this kind of thing can happen anywhere. I’m not American but I’m looking at my own Canadian backyard right now with the same worries, and hearing the same kind of exceptionalism. We take our respective democracies for granted at our own peril.
posted by eekernohan at 6:01 AM on July 27 [4 favorites]
So in this clip DJT says, "I love you Christians (I'm not a Christian)." Am I missing something?
'christians' don't care if he's christian or not. he could crucify jesus on 5th avenue - pound the nails into the Lord's hands and feet his own self, and then raise his bloody fist up for an inspirational photo op - and he wouldn't lose any votes with that crowd. as long as he doesn't stand in the way of their policy goals, he's doing god's work
posted by logicpunk at 6:08 AM on July 27
'christians' don't care if he's christian or not. he could crucify jesus on 5th avenue - pound the nails into the Lord's hands and feet his own self, and then raise his bloody fist up for an inspirational photo op - and he wouldn't lose any votes with that crowd. as long as he doesn't stand in the way of their policy goals, he's doing god's work
posted by logicpunk at 6:08 AM on July 27
Trump has never actually said he’s a Christian and is fairly well known to be an atheist, or at least to keep no gods before himself.
posted by argybarg at 6:09 AM on July 27 [1 favorite]
posted by argybarg at 6:09 AM on July 27 [1 favorite]
This is the thing about the fascist Republican project to end democracy: it’s greatest strength is that it can operate fully in the open and people who should oppose it say “nah, that couldn’t be a fascist Republican project to end democracy“ and just sort of ignore it. It’s just impolite to admit what they are telling you.
posted by Artw at 6:23 AM on July 27 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:23 AM on July 27 [4 favorites]
If there is a debate, Kamala should directly ask Trump "Who won the 2020 election" and then...well, just sit back and watch the fireworks with the rest of America.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:28 AM on July 27 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:28 AM on July 27 [1 favorite]
So in this clip DJT says, "I love you Christians (I'm not a Christian)."
I think you misheard. He says "I am a Christian", there's just a weird hitch in his voice between "I" & "am".
(Of course, this is just a weird sentence structure in the first place, "I love you people, I am you people" is goofy because if I really was one of "you people" I wouldn't refer to them as "you people", I'd say "we". So maybe a little bit of Freudian slippage there, he's not actually a Christian and doesn't really give a shit about them except insofar as he knows they're a core part of his base. Hence the totally insincere claim to be a Christian.)
posted by soundguy99 at 6:41 AM on July 27
I think you misheard. He says "I am a Christian", there's just a weird hitch in his voice between "I" & "am".
(Of course, this is just a weird sentence structure in the first place, "I love you people, I am you people" is goofy because if I really was one of "you people" I wouldn't refer to them as "you people", I'd say "we". So maybe a little bit of Freudian slippage there, he's not actually a Christian and doesn't really give a shit about them except insofar as he knows they're a core part of his base. Hence the totally insincere claim to be a Christian.)
posted by soundguy99 at 6:41 AM on July 27
You want to talk to Trump supporters? Start here:
Newsweek: Full (Updated) List of Former Donald Trump Officials Refusing to Endorse Him
Forbes: The (Updated) Growing List Of Ex-Trump Officials Who Now Denounce The [former] President
And more damning: Cory Doctorow: The true, tactical significance of Project 2025... "it's a huge mistake to think of the right as a stable, unified force, marching to victory after inevitable victory. The American right is a brittle coalition led by a handful of plutocrats who have convinced a large number of turkeys to vote for Christmas."... "it's a mistake to think that "the cruelty is the point." The point of the cruelty is to assemble and maintain the coalition. Cruelty is the tactic. Power is the point"... "As [Rick] Perlstein writes, Project 2025 is a mess. Clocking in an 900 pages, large sections of Project 2025 flatly contradict each other, while other sections contain subtle contradictions that you wouldn't notice unless you were schooled in the specialized argot of the far right's jargon and history."
If Biff Butthead wins, we won't get a nice neat orderly Project 2025 deathmarch. We'll get partial, conflicting implementations, partial governmental teardowns, breakdowns, mountains of lawsuits, endless shouty weapon-waving fights among infinite local councils, law enforcement, school boards, legislative bodies and courthouses across the land. Total asymmetrical chaos. The only certainty is that everyone will be so busy going after each other, no one will notice Trump and his cronies stealing everything not nailed down.
[rereads comment, shakes head] Welp, so much for not crapping my pants in public. Sigh.
posted by zaixfeep at 6:50 AM on July 27
Newsweek: Full (Updated) List of Former Donald Trump Officials Refusing to Endorse Him
Forbes: The (Updated) Growing List Of Ex-Trump Officials Who Now Denounce The [former] President
And more damning: Cory Doctorow: The true, tactical significance of Project 2025... "it's a huge mistake to think of the right as a stable, unified force, marching to victory after inevitable victory. The American right is a brittle coalition led by a handful of plutocrats who have convinced a large number of turkeys to vote for Christmas."... "it's a mistake to think that "the cruelty is the point." The point of the cruelty is to assemble and maintain the coalition. Cruelty is the tactic. Power is the point"... "As [Rick] Perlstein writes, Project 2025 is a mess. Clocking in an 900 pages, large sections of Project 2025 flatly contradict each other, while other sections contain subtle contradictions that you wouldn't notice unless you were schooled in the specialized argot of the far right's jargon and history."
If Biff Butthead wins, we won't get a nice neat orderly Project 2025 deathmarch. We'll get partial, conflicting implementations, partial governmental teardowns, breakdowns, mountains of lawsuits, endless shouty weapon-waving fights among infinite local councils, law enforcement, school boards, legislative bodies and courthouses across the land. Total asymmetrical chaos. The only certainty is that everyone will be so busy going after each other, no one will notice Trump and his cronies stealing everything not nailed down.
[rereads comment, shakes head] Welp, so much for not crapping my pants in public. Sigh.
posted by zaixfeep at 6:50 AM on July 27
this has been the claim for 8+ years now.
I mean, this can be true. We lost a whole city to climate change in 2005. It has been getting worse.
It s very easy to disassociate from reality in the United States, it s what I hate most about US politics, but look what s happening in Texas, Florida, and Louisiana as taxes are not collected and the executive attain more and more power.
Universities are being shut down, basic government services and utilities struggle to function, and life expectancy is dropping.
I think this is what was so unappealing about a candidate like Bernie Sanders to the american public, that politics is work. Not only should you vote your values in the coming election, you ll have to organize for the rest of your life, because climate change is the struggle of our lives.
posted by eustatic at 6:52 AM on July 27
I mean, this can be true. We lost a whole city to climate change in 2005. It has been getting worse.
It s very easy to disassociate from reality in the United States, it s what I hate most about US politics, but look what s happening in Texas, Florida, and Louisiana as taxes are not collected and the executive attain more and more power.
Universities are being shut down, basic government services and utilities struggle to function, and life expectancy is dropping.
I think this is what was so unappealing about a candidate like Bernie Sanders to the american public, that politics is work. Not only should you vote your values in the coming election, you ll have to organize for the rest of your life, because climate change is the struggle of our lives.
posted by eustatic at 6:52 AM on July 27
I'm feeling pretty good, actually. The GOP's plan of "flood the area with shit, steal everything, and run away to Tahiti" has remained unchanged. On the other hand, the DNC's plan of "run any shambling old shitshow as long as nothing changes for the Brunch Bunch, what choice do the American people have but to vote for us? Oh no" has changed, against all odds. It feels like a victory.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:55 AM on July 27
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:55 AM on July 27
this has been the claim for 8+ years now.
4 years ago there were multiple legal and not so legal attempts to prevent Trump being ousted by a Democratic election culminating in an assault on the capital. Trump and his supporters have repeatedly made it clear they intend to try again if they lose the next one.
posted by Artw at 6:56 AM on July 27
4 years ago there were multiple legal and not so legal attempts to prevent Trump being ousted by a Democratic election culminating in an assault on the capital. Trump and his supporters have repeatedly made it clear they intend to try again if they lose the next one.
posted by Artw at 6:56 AM on July 27
Also, I tend to be on the side of looking at this statement where in context he's telling the Christians that if he gets back in office he'll give them everything they want (a return to an entirely fictional sort of 1950's ideal American society, 10 commandments in every classroom, gays back in the closet, black people call everyone "sir" and can't eat lunch with the white people, no legal abortions, every family has a V8 car with tailfins, blah blah blah bullshit bullshit bullshit), and since we'll now have an ideal society again the Christians won't need to worry about voting anymore.
This is not quite the same thing as Trump explicitly & openly claiming that if he gets elected we won't have any more elections ever and he'll be President For Life.
Sales pitch more than direct statement of intent, although as always with Trump the line between the two is blurry at best.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:58 AM on July 27
This is not quite the same thing as Trump explicitly & openly claiming that if he gets elected we won't have any more elections ever and he'll be President For Life.
Sales pitch more than direct statement of intent, although as always with Trump the line between the two is blurry at best.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:58 AM on July 27
Surely This?
Shouldn't we give him the benefit of the doubt because his last attempt at siezing power and overthrowing democracy was 43 months ago?
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 7:04 AM on July 27
Shouldn't we give him the benefit of the doubt because his last attempt at siezing power and overthrowing democracy was 43 months ago?
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 7:04 AM on July 27
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(Trying to find a way to frame this for myself so I can sleep tonight)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:12 PM on July 26 [5 favorites]