Trump to Believers: Only need to vote one more time
July 26, 2024 10:08 PM Subscribe
Clip: In four years, you won’t have to vote again.
Some more detail -- but no holding accountable -- is in this Washington Post article.
Some more detail -- but no holding accountable -- is in this Washington Post article.
Too bad we don't have a free press that might have asked him more about it.
posted by NotLost at 10:14 PM on July 26, 2024 [80 favorites]
posted by NotLost at 10:14 PM on July 26, 2024 [80 favorites]
Or the press could have made his comment the topic of the article, with a blaring headline.
posted by NotLost at 10:15 PM on July 26, 2024 [16 favorites]
posted by NotLost at 10:15 PM on July 26, 2024 [16 favorites]
"Might he possibly be thinking"?
Probably not.
Not coherently, anyway.
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 10:24 PM on July 26, 2024 [14 favorites]
Probably not.
Not coherently, anyway.
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 10:24 PM on July 26, 2024 [14 favorites]
Once again, saying the quiet part out loud because there are no consequences if he's that level of honest.
I'm not even shocked, he's basically been indicating he'll become ruler for life if he gets elected again for like a year.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:25 PM on July 26, 2024 [32 favorites]
I'm not even shocked, he's basically been indicating he'll become ruler for life if he gets elected again for like a year.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:25 PM on July 26, 2024 [32 favorites]
Might he possibly be thinking "you only need to vote for me one more time"? Like, maybe this was a Freudian slip that suggests he knows that some people really don't like him?
There are all sorts of potential cognitive issues that may happen when a 78 year old man is shot in the head. Does anyone know if he's seen a real doctor?
posted by mikelieman at 10:53 PM on July 26, 2024 [9 favorites]
There are all sorts of potential cognitive issues that may happen when a 78 year old man is shot in the head. Does anyone know if he's seen a real doctor?
posted by mikelieman at 10:53 PM on July 26, 2024 [9 favorites]
So, I hate to give the guy the benefit of any doubt, but about 20 minutes before the excerpt linked in the post Trump is claiming that many Christians don't vote, and he is exhorting them to come out and vote. The excerpt seems to be him returning to that point, and then reassuring them that they'll be able to return to their previous complacency after his term. I don't think he's telling the crowd he intends to suspend democracy.
posted by Reverend John at 11:00 PM on July 26, 2024 [48 favorites]
"... and by the way Christians have to vote, you know. I don't want to scold you. But do you know that Christians do not vote proportionately they don't vote like they should they not big voters. You know, who else are and voters the NRA endorsed me. very powerfully strongest endorsement they can give National Rifle Association. people that own guns and rifles or not big voters they have to vote. if you don't vote. We're not going to win the election if you do vote we're going to win in a landslide too big to rig we're going to win. in a landslide. but Christians, you know, you go to church every Sunday. and Pastor Paula White and all of the people I understand they're doing lock boxes in churches where people don't even have to go to vote They can now vote in church. and if you do that we're going to win by numbers that nobody's ever seen before, you know, you have tremendous power, but you just don't know that. but you have to use that power. Christians are a group. That's known not to vote very much. You have to go out. at least this election. Just give us and get us into that beautiful White House. vote for your congressmen and women vote for your Senators. We will change. this country for the better This country will be great again like never before you got to vote."I don't doubt that he would like to institute fascism, but I don't think he's declaring his intent to do so here. I think this is just an example of his rambling incoherent style, possible suggesting increasing senility.
posted by Reverend John at 11:00 PM on July 26, 2024 [48 favorites]
The far right have been talking about this for a while now. They call it "Red Caesar": the idea of a right-wing strongman taking power and putting an end to the Constitution. In a single word: fascism. It is not a joke or a conspiracy theory: it is an actual thing that far-right "intellectuals" have been discussing and advocating for at least a couple of years now. And we have seen for several decades that today's far-right fringe kooky ideas are tomorrow's mainstream Republican platform, again and again. In this case, it looks like tomorrow has arrived. Someone has whispered the idea in his ear, and Trump is now working to make it palatable for his base.
I was recently surprised to see a comment in another thread insisting that to say the U.S. is at risk of slipping into fascism is a ridiculous hyperbole. It is not. The fascists are here, they have a figurehead, and they have a plan. The only thing that stopped them last time was the number of establishment Republicans within the administration, the so-called "adults in the room", who refused to give the fascists free rein. Those people have now been mostly purged from the party and will not be part of a second Trump administration. If Trump is able to take office this time, the fascists pulling his strings really do seem to plan to ensure that he, and presumably whoever they choose to succeed him, won't have to worry about winning an election ever again.
Vote, organize, and donate like your right to vote depends on it, because it literally does.
posted by biogeo at 11:05 PM on July 26, 2024 [124 favorites]
I was recently surprised to see a comment in another thread insisting that to say the U.S. is at risk of slipping into fascism is a ridiculous hyperbole. It is not. The fascists are here, they have a figurehead, and they have a plan. The only thing that stopped them last time was the number of establishment Republicans within the administration, the so-called "adults in the room", who refused to give the fascists free rein. Those people have now been mostly purged from the party and will not be part of a second Trump administration. If Trump is able to take office this time, the fascists pulling his strings really do seem to plan to ensure that he, and presumably whoever they choose to succeed him, won't have to worry about winning an election ever again.
Vote, organize, and donate like your right to vote depends on it, because it literally does.
posted by biogeo at 11:05 PM on July 26, 2024 [124 favorites]
Trump described Harris as a “radical left person” who “destroyed San Francisco.”
But Harris, who served as the top prosecutor in San Francisco and was later elected California attorney general, has a more complicated political story.
Seriously, in the Washington Post article, those two sentences are next to one another.
The "faith-based event" was Turning Point USA's "Believers' Summit" and WaPo doesn't delve into TPUSA, or why his message was so well-received there; the org is a campus-based alt-right hate group, known for attacking teachers . In April: "Two Turning Point USA workers have admitted to charges from an October incident in which they followed and filmed a queer Arizona State University instructor on campus, with one of them eventually pushing the instructor face first onto the concrete."
His appearance at this event happened the day after Harris's keynote address at the American Federation of Teachers' 88th national convention in Houston. The American Federation of Teachers was the first labor union to formally endorse Harris (and now I have to go fix my mistake in the Harris thread).
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:08 PM on July 26, 2024 [20 favorites]
But Harris, who served as the top prosecutor in San Francisco and was later elected California attorney general, has a more complicated political story.
Seriously, in the Washington Post article, those two sentences are next to one another.
The "faith-based event" was Turning Point USA's "Believers' Summit" and WaPo doesn't delve into TPUSA, or why his message was so well-received there; the org is a campus-based alt-right hate group, known for attacking teachers . In April: "Two Turning Point USA workers have admitted to charges from an October incident in which they followed and filmed a queer Arizona State University instructor on campus, with one of them eventually pushing the instructor face first onto the concrete."
His appearance at this event happened the day after Harris's keynote address at the American Federation of Teachers' 88th national convention in Houston. The American Federation of Teachers was the first labor union to formally endorse Harris (and now I have to go fix my mistake in the Harris thread).
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:08 PM on July 26, 2024 [20 favorites]
I don't think he's declaring his intent
You may be right: I don't think Trump is necessarily declaring his intentions. I don't think Trump actually gives a shit about any of this as long as he gets to feed his narcissistic void, and as such his only intentions are to say and do whatever will let him him feel important and powerful. But I think he is revealing the ideas that the fascists he surrounds himself with have been discussing with him, and I think that's actually more frightening.
posted by biogeo at 11:15 PM on July 26, 2024 [62 favorites]
I don't doubt that he would like to institute fascism, but I don't think he's declaring his intent to do so here. I think this is just an example of his rambling incoherent style, possible suggesting increasing senility.
The part where he says "It'll be fixed" by the next time, I think even if he doesn't mean election rigging, he at least means some level of dismantling the federal government and/or court packing ala Project 2025, such that even if democrats are elected, it will be of little consequence. It's a pretty disturbing proposition even if it's not taken to be directly about elections- the government will be so transformed that it won't even matter who wins in future elections?
posted by p3t3 at 11:20 PM on July 26, 2024 [30 favorites]
The part where he says "It'll be fixed" by the next time, I think even if he doesn't mean election rigging, he at least means some level of dismantling the federal government and/or court packing ala Project 2025, such that even if democrats are elected, it will be of little consequence. It's a pretty disturbing proposition even if it's not taken to be directly about elections- the government will be so transformed that it won't even matter who wins in future elections?
posted by p3t3 at 11:20 PM on July 26, 2024 [30 favorites]
He either knew what he was saying which is problematic or he didn't know what he was saying which is differently problematic.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 11:57 PM on July 26, 2024 [65 favorites]
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 11:57 PM on July 26, 2024 [65 favorites]
Trump described Harris as a “radical left person” who “destroyed San Francisco.”
The Harris campaign's response was that Trump sounds "like someone you wouldn't want to be sitting next to in a restaurant'. That's exactly the right note to strike, I think.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:28 AM on July 27, 2024 [55 favorites]
The Harris campaign's response was that Trump sounds "like someone you wouldn't want to be sitting next to in a restaurant'. That's exactly the right note to strike, I think.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:28 AM on July 27, 2024 [55 favorites]
His decline is accelerating. I am starting to worry that he is not going to make it to the election.
If he is going to have a full blown narcissism, stress, and dementia driven mental breakdown in public, or merely drop dead, can he at least hold off on it until much closer to election day when it is too late for the Repubs to recover (though it may well be already). Or, even better, just after it.
posted by Pouteria at 12:54 AM on July 27, 2024 [6 favorites]
If he is going to have a full blown narcissism, stress, and dementia driven mental breakdown in public, or merely drop dead, can he at least hold off on it until much closer to election day when it is too late for the Repubs to recover (though it may well be already). Or, even better, just after it.
posted by Pouteria at 12:54 AM on July 27, 2024 [6 favorites]
Not clear to me who authored this image (source) but I want to see it show up literally everywhere (chef's kiss)...
posted by zaixfeep at 1:11 AM on July 27, 2024 [16 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 1:11 AM on July 27, 2024 [16 favorites]
Sharks with Frickin Batteries!
posted by Pouteria at 1:40 AM on July 27, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by Pouteria at 1:40 AM on July 27, 2024 [3 favorites]
It is not a joke or a conspiracy theory: it is an actual thing that far-right "intellectuals" have been discussing and advocating for at least a couple of years now. And we have seen for several decades that today's far-right fringe kooky ideas are tomorrow's mainstream Republican platform, again and again. In this case, it looks like tomorrow has arrived. Someone has whispered the idea in his ear, and Trump is now working to make it palatable for his base.
yes exactly this. i do get the motivation to want to explain what he said away by speculating on what he might have meant; it's hard to conceive of an end to elections in america. but consider that we have seen an end to many, many things under this man's tenure, and under the scotus he stacked in his favor, that seemed rock solid. and as mentioned, this isn't coming out of nowhere. it's an actual plan the far right have been pushing for a long time.
so however real or imagined we might think the end of elections may be, considering his track record, it probably doesn't do us any favours to not err on the side of caution and motivate others to vote like the entire country depends on it
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:42 AM on July 27, 2024 [26 favorites]
yes exactly this. i do get the motivation to want to explain what he said away by speculating on what he might have meant; it's hard to conceive of an end to elections in america. but consider that we have seen an end to many, many things under this man's tenure, and under the scotus he stacked in his favor, that seemed rock solid. and as mentioned, this isn't coming out of nowhere. it's an actual plan the far right have been pushing for a long time.
so however real or imagined we might think the end of elections may be, considering his track record, it probably doesn't do us any favours to not err on the side of caution and motivate others to vote like the entire country depends on it
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 2:42 AM on July 27, 2024 [26 favorites]
Vote, organize, and donate like your right to vote depends on it, because it literally does
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but this has been the claim for 8+ years now. That claim has been pressed on MetaFilter, embedded in emails and texts and calls to me, a constant presence in conversation, etc. "It's the end, give us all your money/spend all your free time on saving democracy" isn't a sustainable message, particularly when coupled with the constant bitter and unhinged ranting here about how America never was a democracy, it's all already over, there is no hope, it doesn't matter if the Democrats win because of [genocide/student loans/housing/racism/gerrymandering], etc. Many MeFites have been ringing multiple alarm bells so loudly, for so long, that it's Boy Who Cried Wolf Day over here every single day. A diverse community will have diverse opinions, but IMHO, there's a nice, steady drumbeat of doom here.
I don't follow politics threads closely enough (usually have them hidden, in fact) to know if this happens, but I wish more MeFites acknowledged the double-edged sword of MetaFilter. I'm not saying a lack of threaded comments and user blocking killed democracy in the United States, but having to see nonsense without end from the self-soothing doomsayers here has at times impacted my ability to engage (at all) with contemporary U.S. politics. "It's a terrible country/guess we should try to save it" is a beloved song around here, and it sucks.
posted by cupcakeninja at 2:46 AM on July 27, 2024 [30 favorites]
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but this has been the claim for 8+ years now. That claim has been pressed on MetaFilter, embedded in emails and texts and calls to me, a constant presence in conversation, etc. "It's the end, give us all your money/spend all your free time on saving democracy" isn't a sustainable message, particularly when coupled with the constant bitter and unhinged ranting here about how America never was a democracy, it's all already over, there is no hope, it doesn't matter if the Democrats win because of [genocide/student loans/housing/racism/gerrymandering], etc. Many MeFites have been ringing multiple alarm bells so loudly, for so long, that it's Boy Who Cried Wolf Day over here every single day. A diverse community will have diverse opinions, but IMHO, there's a nice, steady drumbeat of doom here.
I don't follow politics threads closely enough (usually have them hidden, in fact) to know if this happens, but I wish more MeFites acknowledged the double-edged sword of MetaFilter. I'm not saying a lack of threaded comments and user blocking killed democracy in the United States, but having to see nonsense without end from the self-soothing doomsayers here has at times impacted my ability to engage (at all) with contemporary U.S. politics. "It's a terrible country/guess we should try to save it" is a beloved song around here, and it sucks.
posted by cupcakeninja at 2:46 AM on July 27, 2024 [30 favorites]
but I wish more MeFites acknowledged the double-edged sword of MetaFilter.
uh, fascism?
Full on fascism? I'm not sure I understand what you mean when this, for the first time since the 1930s fascism is a full on threat in the US and this website has been warning about it for years.
I'm Canadian and I am appalled that a treasonous seditionist can actually be on the ballot for president.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 3:32 AM on July 27, 2024 [69 favorites]
uh, fascism?
Full on fascism? I'm not sure I understand what you mean when this, for the first time since the 1930s fascism is a full on threat in the US and this website has been warning about it for years.
I'm Canadian and I am appalled that a treasonous seditionist can actually be on the ballot for president.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 3:32 AM on July 27, 2024 [69 favorites]
Between announcing his intent to be a literal dictator from day one, the conservative plans to eliminate presidential term limits, the systematic stripping of voting rights from anyone that might disagree (which now even includes adults without children?!?), trying to get armed ‘poll watchers’ to pressure voters and Trump’s love of his fellow dictators freedoms; it is pretty clear that ending American democracy as we know it is one of his goals.
I doubt that they’d go as far as eliminating elections, what we will see instead are sham elections like you find in Russia and China and other iron fisted ruled countries. How can he not want to crow about such sham results? “America loves me! Look at those numbers!”
posted by rambling wanderlust at 3:57 AM on July 27, 2024 [25 favorites]
I doubt that they’d go as far as eliminating elections, what we will see instead are sham elections like you find in Russia and China and other iron fisted ruled countries. How can he not want to crow about such sham results? “America loves me! Look at those numbers!”
posted by rambling wanderlust at 3:57 AM on July 27, 2024 [25 favorites]
but this has been the claim for 8+ years now. That claim has been pressed on MetaFilter, embedded in emails and texts and calls to me, a constant presence in conversation,
I completely understand and am sympathetic to what you're saying here, particularly the emotional load of what feels like the need to continuously fight against a doom spiral.
That said, the right wing and conservatism has gotten objectively worse for not just 8, but the past 24 years. I remember when a half-my-age me thought George W. Bush was the absolute nadir of politics -- a know-nothing nepo baby (using that term retroactively) that was in the pocket of Big Oil and had by any measure failed at everything he'd ever tried.
Oh, how naïve I was!
They keep getting worse. Trump 2016 was awful, but post-COVID, post-QANON, post-SCOTUS-takeover, pre-Project 2025, the conservatives have managed to become even more apocalyptic. My November 2016 concerns about Trump, were I to have written them out on a piece of paper, seem childishly trivial compared to my July 2024 concerns about Trump.
I listen to Knowledge Fight (a podcast that keeps tabs on Alex Jones and what's going on in the loony fringe of the conservative movement via him), and periodically they do a historical jump and do an episode from 10, 15, 20 years ago. And it's word for word identical, more or less, to the loony conservative fringe today. The fringe has been mainstreamed substantially, but it's hard to make a case that the Left has gotten "more left" over the past quarter-century. Some gains in equal rights have been made, sure, but it's not like the mainstream Left has become a parody of its former self.
The Right has.
The language you use when it is As Bad As it Gets is a certain set of language. You don't anticipate, when it's As Bad As it Gets, it's going to get worse. It's As Bad As it Gets, so you talk about it in those terms.
It feels like it's been the same doomerism talk for a long time. But that's because we keep thinking it's As Bad As it Gets, so we're using that language. And then they somehow find a way to become even worse, so the As Bad As it Gets bar gets lowered even further, but we don't have more language for that! We can only repeat As Bad As it Gets!
It's an exhausting cycle, but it's in response to a legitimately escalating problem.
posted by Shepherd at 4:05 AM on July 27, 2024 [123 favorites]
I completely understand and am sympathetic to what you're saying here, particularly the emotional load of what feels like the need to continuously fight against a doom spiral.
That said, the right wing and conservatism has gotten objectively worse for not just 8, but the past 24 years. I remember when a half-my-age me thought George W. Bush was the absolute nadir of politics -- a know-nothing nepo baby (using that term retroactively) that was in the pocket of Big Oil and had by any measure failed at everything he'd ever tried.
Oh, how naïve I was!
They keep getting worse. Trump 2016 was awful, but post-COVID, post-QANON, post-SCOTUS-takeover, pre-Project 2025, the conservatives have managed to become even more apocalyptic. My November 2016 concerns about Trump, were I to have written them out on a piece of paper, seem childishly trivial compared to my July 2024 concerns about Trump.
I listen to Knowledge Fight (a podcast that keeps tabs on Alex Jones and what's going on in the loony fringe of the conservative movement via him), and periodically they do a historical jump and do an episode from 10, 15, 20 years ago. And it's word for word identical, more or less, to the loony conservative fringe today. The fringe has been mainstreamed substantially, but it's hard to make a case that the Left has gotten "more left" over the past quarter-century. Some gains in equal rights have been made, sure, but it's not like the mainstream Left has become a parody of its former self.
The Right has.
The language you use when it is As Bad As it Gets is a certain set of language. You don't anticipate, when it's As Bad As it Gets, it's going to get worse. It's As Bad As it Gets, so you talk about it in those terms.
It feels like it's been the same doomerism talk for a long time. But that's because we keep thinking it's As Bad As it Gets, so we're using that language. And then they somehow find a way to become even worse, so the As Bad As it Gets bar gets lowered even further, but we don't have more language for that! We can only repeat As Bad As it Gets!
It's an exhausting cycle, but it's in response to a legitimately escalating problem.
posted by Shepherd at 4:05 AM on July 27, 2024 [123 favorites]
I'm not saying a lack of threaded comments and user blocking killed democracy in the United States
Well that’s a relief!
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:20 AM on July 27, 2024 [9 favorites]
Well that’s a relief!
posted by Horace Rumpole at 4:20 AM on July 27, 2024 [9 favorites]
We have an entire thread in MetaTalk devoted to the utility of doomsaying.
I think the issue here is not that people are saying we're doomed, it's that the leading presidential candidate is promising there won't be another election after he wins. That seems fairly plain; the best case scenario is that he's just babbling, which considering that we just got a president to leave the race because we all thought he was losing his shit, seems bad as well.
I'm sorry that people get bleak when they talk about Trump, but the reality around him is quite bleak, and he doesn't seem to be going away, ever. I suspect that if Harris wins, they'll wheel him out in 2028 for even more of this bullshit, and keep it going until he's just a Futurama-style talking head in a glass jar.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:24 AM on July 27, 2024 [18 favorites]
I think the issue here is not that people are saying we're doomed, it's that the leading presidential candidate is promising there won't be another election after he wins. That seems fairly plain; the best case scenario is that he's just babbling, which considering that we just got a president to leave the race because we all thought he was losing his shit, seems bad as well.
I'm sorry that people get bleak when they talk about Trump, but the reality around him is quite bleak, and he doesn't seem to be going away, ever. I suspect that if Harris wins, they'll wheel him out in 2028 for even more of this bullshit, and keep it going until he's just a Futurama-style talking head in a glass jar.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:24 AM on July 27, 2024 [18 favorites]
Thanks, Shepherd, I appreciated that perspective.
posted by cupcakeninja at 4:27 AM on July 27, 2024 [14 favorites]
posted by cupcakeninja at 4:27 AM on July 27, 2024 [14 favorites]
Here's an honest question which will probably out me as some kind of bad person, but, well, nevertheless:
What is the point of individual donations to national politicians' campaigns? Do they actually help? Or is their main utility just as a proxy measure of voter enthusiasm?
I've put in a bunch of my time helping canvass for certain politicians I believe in, and I've definitely given money to local candidates. But donating to national level politicians? I'm a big fat NAH, and I'd like to know if there's any reason for me to change that.
Mainly my reason for not donating is I don't have a lot of money. Not compared to the politicians or their mega donors. I don't think my donation actually matters?
posted by MiraK at 4:42 AM on July 27, 2024 [11 favorites]
What is the point of individual donations to national politicians' campaigns? Do they actually help? Or is their main utility just as a proxy measure of voter enthusiasm?
I've put in a bunch of my time helping canvass for certain politicians I believe in, and I've definitely given money to local candidates. But donating to national level politicians? I'm a big fat NAH, and I'd like to know if there's any reason for me to change that.
Mainly my reason for not donating is I don't have a lot of money. Not compared to the politicians or their mega donors. I don't think my donation actually matters?
posted by MiraK at 4:42 AM on July 27, 2024 [11 favorites]
cupcakeninja, I have concluded: "Forget it 'cake, it's Chinatown MetaFilter US Politics discussions." It won't ever change, it will just wear out the folks who fight it and chase them away and eventually the hive mind will truly speak with one voice.
I take our authoritartian threat very seriously, but I prefer to separate panicking and crapping my pants (i.e. privately) from planning, discussing and taking action. That's just how I roll, others will of course feel differently and I acknowledge that.
If any of you are dissatisfied here and want a discussion board that is more your speed, you could always start your own subreddit or MeFi-equivalent withblackjack the 'Class War' card game and hookers enthusiastically-consenting, ethically and competitively compensated sex workers. ;-) (apologies to Futurama's Bender)
posted by zaixfeep at 4:53 AM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
I take our authoritartian threat very seriously, but I prefer to separate panicking and crapping my pants (i.e. privately) from planning, discussing and taking action. That's just how I roll, others will of course feel differently and I acknowledge that.
If any of you are dissatisfied here and want a discussion board that is more your speed, you could always start your own subreddit or MeFi-equivalent with
posted by zaixfeep at 4:53 AM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
A single-link post of doomscaring? And then with Mefites shaming other Metafites? We can do so, so much better.
posted by Melismata at 4:53 AM on July 27, 2024 [7 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 4:53 AM on July 27, 2024 [7 favorites]
When a great many modest individual donations build to the kind of totals we've seen coming in for Kamala Harris this week ($81m from small donors on day one alone), the accumulated sum certainly matters. Of course, if you'd sooner donate at a local level instead, that's great too - it all helps.
Small donations do have an additional proxy role as a measure of enthusiasm for the candidate, but we shouldn't dismiss that aspect as irrelevant. Seeing that enthusiasm helps to motivate other supporters, both in terms of adding their own cash donations and getting involved in the campaign.
posted by Paul Slade at 5:00 AM on July 27, 2024 [14 favorites]
Small donations do have an additional proxy role as a measure of enthusiasm for the candidate, but we shouldn't dismiss that aspect as irrelevant. Seeing that enthusiasm helps to motivate other supporters, both in terms of adding their own cash donations and getting involved in the campaign.
posted by Paul Slade at 5:00 AM on July 27, 2024 [14 favorites]
I think it can be both. Like democracy can be at risk continually for many years for many different reasons AND it can also be really ineffective and exhausting messaging. I try to think of democracy as like owning a house. You probably weren’t the first person to own your particular house and you certainly won’t be the last, but like any homeowner learns real quickly, you don’t just get to buy the house and live in it. The house needs to be maintained. Sometimes you get a problem every year. One year the roof needs repair, another year your entire ac system fails, maybe one year you get termites. And every time it is super stressful and risks making your house pretty unlivable. And yes you will complain about your various house problems to like all your friends. Sometimes you can outsource your house issues to someone else to take care of, sometimes you take care of it yourself, but either way ownership definitely has some benefits over renting and paying a landlord.
As much as I would love to live in a set it and forget it democracy. I don’t think that’s the one I live in, so like home maintenance, I sort of just do my best to accept that the problems won’t just go away and make my decisions from there.
posted by donut_princess at 5:27 AM on July 27, 2024 [29 favorites]
As much as I would love to live in a set it and forget it democracy. I don’t think that’s the one I live in, so like home maintenance, I sort of just do my best to accept that the problems won’t just go away and make my decisions from there.
posted by donut_princess at 5:27 AM on July 27, 2024 [29 favorites]
I wouldn't actually call this doomscaring; this is something Trump said, and that's bad, but there's still time to prevent that plan from happening (and the surge in popularity Harris is enjoying gives one hope).
It also gives us all a talking point if we're having conversations with friends or relatives who are still supporting Trump if we want to try talking them out of it, one that would work on two fronts - the obvious "so it sounds like he kind of wants to be a dictator by saying that", but also "hey, you're a Christian and you vote in every election - Trump thinks Christians don't ever vote, though, he says it right here. I don't know, but it doesn't sound like he respects you."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:30 AM on July 27, 2024 [12 favorites]
It also gives us all a talking point if we're having conversations with friends or relatives who are still supporting Trump if we want to try talking them out of it, one that would work on two fronts - the obvious "so it sounds like he kind of wants to be a dictator by saying that", but also "hey, you're a Christian and you vote in every election - Trump thinks Christians don't ever vote, though, he says it right here. I don't know, but it doesn't sound like he respects you."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:30 AM on July 27, 2024 [12 favorites]
So in this clip DJT says, "I love you Christians (I'm not a Christian)." Am I missing something? I thought the Bible-brandishing bully claimed to be one of them.
posted by kozad at 5:48 AM on July 27, 2024 [6 favorites]
posted by kozad at 5:48 AM on July 27, 2024 [6 favorites]
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but this has been the claim for 8+ years now.
Fascism isn’t a “boom, let’s have a war now” kind of threat. It’s a slow walk that starts with ideas spread in private places, then dog whistles and fig leaves, then fascist friendly policies and laws, and then finally the end of democracy.
I know no one wants to start making comparisons to the world in the 1930s, but the comparisons are apt. The moustachioed villain of the time didn’t just spring on the scene. The way to that horrible business was paved with the intellectual elites flirting with the ideas of fascism and eugenics in their drawing rooms and parlours well before shit got real dark.
Putting off what’s happening as just doomsaying is, unfortunately, indulging in exceptionalism. But no matter how much people say “we have no troubles here”, this kind of thing can happen anywhere. I’m not American but I’m looking at my own Canadian backyard right now with the same worries, and hearing the same kind of exceptionalism. We take our respective democracies for granted at our own peril.
posted by eekernohan at 6:01 AM on July 27, 2024 [36 favorites]
Fascism isn’t a “boom, let’s have a war now” kind of threat. It’s a slow walk that starts with ideas spread in private places, then dog whistles and fig leaves, then fascist friendly policies and laws, and then finally the end of democracy.
I know no one wants to start making comparisons to the world in the 1930s, but the comparisons are apt. The moustachioed villain of the time didn’t just spring on the scene. The way to that horrible business was paved with the intellectual elites flirting with the ideas of fascism and eugenics in their drawing rooms and parlours well before shit got real dark.
Putting off what’s happening as just doomsaying is, unfortunately, indulging in exceptionalism. But no matter how much people say “we have no troubles here”, this kind of thing can happen anywhere. I’m not American but I’m looking at my own Canadian backyard right now with the same worries, and hearing the same kind of exceptionalism. We take our respective democracies for granted at our own peril.
posted by eekernohan at 6:01 AM on July 27, 2024 [36 favorites]
So in this clip DJT says, "I love you Christians (I'm not a Christian)." Am I missing something?
'christians' don't care if he's christian or not. he could crucify jesus on 5th avenue - pound the nails into the Lord's hands and feet his own self, and then raise his bloody fist up for an inspirational photo op - and he wouldn't lose any votes with that crowd. as long as he doesn't stand in the way of their policy goals, he's doing god's work
posted by logicpunk at 6:08 AM on July 27, 2024 [11 favorites]
'christians' don't care if he's christian or not. he could crucify jesus on 5th avenue - pound the nails into the Lord's hands and feet his own self, and then raise his bloody fist up for an inspirational photo op - and he wouldn't lose any votes with that crowd. as long as he doesn't stand in the way of their policy goals, he's doing god's work
posted by logicpunk at 6:08 AM on July 27, 2024 [11 favorites]
Trump has never actually said he’s a Christian and is fairly well known to be an atheist, or at least to keep no gods before himself.
posted by argybarg at 6:09 AM on July 27, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by argybarg at 6:09 AM on July 27, 2024 [3 favorites]
This is the thing about the fascist Republican project to end democracy: it’s greatest strength is that it can operate fully in the open and people who should oppose it say “nah, that couldn’t be a fascist Republican project to end democracy“ and just sort of ignore it. It’s just impolite to admit what they are telling you.
posted by Artw at 6:23 AM on July 27, 2024 [31 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:23 AM on July 27, 2024 [31 favorites]
If there is a debate, Kamala should directly ask Trump "Who won the 2020 election" and then...well, just sit back and watch the fireworks with the rest of America.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:28 AM on July 27, 2024 [11 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:28 AM on July 27, 2024 [11 favorites]
So in this clip DJT says, "I love you Christians (I'm not a Christian)."
I think you misheard. He says "I am a Christian", there's just a weird hitch in his voice between "I" & "am".
(Of course, this is just a weird sentence structure in the first place, "I love you people, I am you people" is goofy because if I really was one of "you people" I wouldn't refer to them as "you people", I'd say "we". So maybe a little bit of Freudian slippage there, he's not actually a Christian and doesn't really give a shit about them except insofar as he knows they're a core part of his base. Hence the totally insincere claim to be a Christian.)
posted by soundguy99 at 6:41 AM on July 27, 2024 [8 favorites]
I think you misheard. He says "I am a Christian", there's just a weird hitch in his voice between "I" & "am".
(Of course, this is just a weird sentence structure in the first place, "I love you people, I am you people" is goofy because if I really was one of "you people" I wouldn't refer to them as "you people", I'd say "we". So maybe a little bit of Freudian slippage there, he's not actually a Christian and doesn't really give a shit about them except insofar as he knows they're a core part of his base. Hence the totally insincere claim to be a Christian.)
posted by soundguy99 at 6:41 AM on July 27, 2024 [8 favorites]
You want to talk to Trump supporters? Start here:
Newsweek: Full (Updated) List of Former Donald Trump Officials Refusing to Endorse Him
Forbes: The (Updated) Growing List Of Ex-Trump Officials Who Now Denounce The [former] President
And more damning: Cory Doctorow: The true, tactical significance of Project 2025... "it's a huge mistake to think of the right as a stable, unified force, marching to victory after inevitable victory. The American right is a brittle coalition led by a handful of plutocrats who have convinced a large number of turkeys to vote for Christmas."... "it's a mistake to think that "the cruelty is the point." The point of the cruelty is to assemble and maintain the coalition. Cruelty is the tactic. Power is the point"... "As [Rick] Perlstein writes, Project 2025 is a mess. Clocking in an 900 pages, large sections of Project 2025 flatly contradict each other, while other sections contain subtle contradictions that you wouldn't notice unless you were schooled in the specialized argot of the far right's jargon and history."
If Biff Butthead wins, we won't get a nice neat orderly Project 2025 deathmarch. We'll get partial, conflicting implementations, partial governmental teardowns, breakdowns, mountains of lawsuits, endless shouty weapon-waving fights among infinite local councils, law enforcement, school boards, legislative bodies and courthouses across the land. Total asymmetrical chaos. The only certainty is that everyone will be so busy going after each other, no one will notice Trump and his cronies stealing everything not nailed down.
[rereads comment, shakes head] Welp, so much for not crapping my pants in public. Sigh.
posted by zaixfeep at 6:50 AM on July 27, 2024 [54 favorites]
Newsweek: Full (Updated) List of Former Donald Trump Officials Refusing to Endorse Him
Forbes: The (Updated) Growing List Of Ex-Trump Officials Who Now Denounce The [former] President
And more damning: Cory Doctorow: The true, tactical significance of Project 2025... "it's a huge mistake to think of the right as a stable, unified force, marching to victory after inevitable victory. The American right is a brittle coalition led by a handful of plutocrats who have convinced a large number of turkeys to vote for Christmas."... "it's a mistake to think that "the cruelty is the point." The point of the cruelty is to assemble and maintain the coalition. Cruelty is the tactic. Power is the point"... "As [Rick] Perlstein writes, Project 2025 is a mess. Clocking in an 900 pages, large sections of Project 2025 flatly contradict each other, while other sections contain subtle contradictions that you wouldn't notice unless you were schooled in the specialized argot of the far right's jargon and history."
If Biff Butthead wins, we won't get a nice neat orderly Project 2025 deathmarch. We'll get partial, conflicting implementations, partial governmental teardowns, breakdowns, mountains of lawsuits, endless shouty weapon-waving fights among infinite local councils, law enforcement, school boards, legislative bodies and courthouses across the land. Total asymmetrical chaos. The only certainty is that everyone will be so busy going after each other, no one will notice Trump and his cronies stealing everything not nailed down.
[rereads comment, shakes head] Welp, so much for not crapping my pants in public. Sigh.
posted by zaixfeep at 6:50 AM on July 27, 2024 [54 favorites]
this has been the claim for 8+ years now.
I mean, this can be true. We lost a whole city to climate change in 2005. It has been getting worse.
It s very easy to disassociate from reality in the United States, it s what I hate most about US politics, but look what s happening in Texas, Florida, and Louisiana as taxes are not collected and the executive attain more and more power.
Universities are being shut down, basic government services and utilities struggle to function, and life expectancy is dropping.
I think this is what was so unappealing about a candidate like Bernie Sanders to the american public, that politics is work. Not only should you vote your values in the coming election, you ll have to organize for the rest of your life, because climate change is the struggle of our lives.
posted by eustatic at 6:52 AM on July 27, 2024 [15 favorites]
I mean, this can be true. We lost a whole city to climate change in 2005. It has been getting worse.
It s very easy to disassociate from reality in the United States, it s what I hate most about US politics, but look what s happening in Texas, Florida, and Louisiana as taxes are not collected and the executive attain more and more power.
Universities are being shut down, basic government services and utilities struggle to function, and life expectancy is dropping.
I think this is what was so unappealing about a candidate like Bernie Sanders to the american public, that politics is work. Not only should you vote your values in the coming election, you ll have to organize for the rest of your life, because climate change is the struggle of our lives.
posted by eustatic at 6:52 AM on July 27, 2024 [15 favorites]
I'm feeling pretty good, actually. The GOP's plan of "flood the area with shit, steal everything, and run away to Tahiti" has remained unchanged. On the other hand, the DNC's plan of "run any shambling old shitshow as long as nothing changes for the Brunch Bunch, what choice do the American people have but to vote for us? Oh no" has changed, against all odds. It feels like a victory.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:55 AM on July 27, 2024 [16 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:55 AM on July 27, 2024 [16 favorites]
this has been the claim for 8+ years now.
4 years ago there were multiple legal and not so legal attempts to prevent Trump being ousted by a Democratic election culminating in an assault on the capital. Trump and his supporters have repeatedly made it clear they intend to try again if they lose the next one.
posted by Artw at 6:56 AM on July 27, 2024 [29 favorites]
4 years ago there were multiple legal and not so legal attempts to prevent Trump being ousted by a Democratic election culminating in an assault on the capital. Trump and his supporters have repeatedly made it clear they intend to try again if they lose the next one.
posted by Artw at 6:56 AM on July 27, 2024 [29 favorites]
Also, I tend to be on the side of looking at this statement where in context he's telling the Christians that if he gets back in office he'll give them everything they want (a return to an entirely fictional sort of 1950's ideal American society, 10 commandments in every classroom, gays back in the closet, black people call everyone "sir" and can't eat lunch with the white people, no legal abortions, every family has a V8 car with tailfins, blah blah blah bullshit bullshit bullshit), and since we'll now have an ideal society again the Christians won't need to worry about voting anymore.
This is not quite the same thing as Trump explicitly & openly claiming that if he gets elected we won't have any more elections ever and he'll be President For Life.
Sales pitch more than direct statement of intent, although as always with Trump the line between the two is blurry at best.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:58 AM on July 27, 2024 [8 favorites]
This is not quite the same thing as Trump explicitly & openly claiming that if he gets elected we won't have any more elections ever and he'll be President For Life.
Sales pitch more than direct statement of intent, although as always with Trump the line between the two is blurry at best.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:58 AM on July 27, 2024 [8 favorites]
Surely This?
Shouldn't we give him the benefit of the doubt because his last attempt at siezing power and overthrowing democracy was 43 months ago?
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 7:04 AM on July 27, 2024 [11 favorites]
Shouldn't we give him the benefit of the doubt because his last attempt at siezing power and overthrowing democracy was 43 months ago?
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 7:04 AM on July 27, 2024 [11 favorites]
Artw: This is the thing about the fascist Republican project to end democracy: it’s greatest strength is that it can operate fully in the open and people who should oppose it say “nah, that couldn’t be a fascist Republican project to end democracy“ and just sort of ignore it. It’s just impolite to admit what they are telling you.
Being out in the open is a power move in and of itself. Think of a champion billiards player who can call out exactly how the balls will move and which ones will go in the pockets before even picking up the cue. Basically being so confident in the plan and the oppositions inability to counteract it, they don’t have to bother with subterfuge.
Seeing the renewed surge with Harris does give me hope that they’re going to face some real hard opposition from the Dems this time around.
posted by dr_dank at 7:17 AM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
Being out in the open is a power move in and of itself. Think of a champion billiards player who can call out exactly how the balls will move and which ones will go in the pockets before even picking up the cue. Basically being so confident in the plan and the oppositions inability to counteract it, they don’t have to bother with subterfuge.
Seeing the renewed surge with Harris does give me hope that they’re going to face some real hard opposition from the Dems this time around.
posted by dr_dank at 7:17 AM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
She does, at last, appear to be running against republicans as they are and not the polite imaginary version of republicans.
posted by Artw at 7:20 AM on July 27, 2024 [28 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:20 AM on July 27, 2024 [28 favorites]
There is a Kamala ad on YouTube whetr she explains what they do with a $10 donation.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:22 AM on July 27, 2024 [12 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:22 AM on July 27, 2024 [12 favorites]
Newsweek take on the quote seems to frame it mostly as response to his claims of democrat vote rigging, which once fixed, will no longer be a problem.
So basically to fix a nonexistent problem, he'd rig it in the other direction; I'm guessing he got plenty of ideas from Orban during the recent visit. He already had chances to "fix" it with his election integrity commision which went nowhere last time around, I wonder what his excuse is for not already having fixed it.
posted by p3t3 at 7:23 AM on July 27, 2024 [5 favorites]
So basically to fix a nonexistent problem, he'd rig it in the other direction; I'm guessing he got plenty of ideas from Orban during the recent visit. He already had chances to "fix" it with his election integrity commision which went nowhere last time around, I wonder what his excuse is for not already having fixed it.
posted by p3t3 at 7:23 AM on July 27, 2024 [5 favorites]
Remember when Howard Dean said, “Yee ha” and the press lost their minds effectively ending his campaign? It ain’t just Fox News that’s “Fair and Balanced.”
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 7:24 AM on July 27, 2024 [21 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 7:24 AM on July 27, 2024 [21 favorites]
We've seen so many times that if something goes into this guy's ear that he finds shiny or clever, it will come back out of his mouth. 'It will be fixed,' says the former casino owner and con man. Supply Side Jesus is out. Crime Boss Jesus is in.
posted by jabah at 7:46 AM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
posted by jabah at 7:46 AM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
having to see nonsense without end from the self-soothing doomsayers here has at times impacted my ability to engage (at all) with contemporary U.S. politics
Man, I do get it. It is fucking exhausting. But that doesn't mean those doomsayers are wrong.
The Dobbs decision taught us that the forces of evil are organized and persistent. It was more than 40 years after Paul Weyrich manufactured abortion as a galvanizing issue for the right.
Today we have billionaire assholes like Peter Thiel, who A) says "democracy and freedom are incompatible," and B) manufactured J.D. Vance as a political figure and had him installed as the VP to an aging, overweight, demented buffoon.
But we also have a Democratic party that has gone from being as organized as a soccer game for 8 year olds to having real party discipline. We have a Republican party that has gone through two purges of whoever was nominally competent and non-crazy, and is now simply a cult of personality adoring the Orange Menace.
The future is not assured, and it's hard to know how to prioritize the different features on the political landscape. Some people (including some people on Metafilter) see everything refracted through a particular issue.
I guess what I'm saying is that the world is a complicated place, U.S. politics are complicated, it's not at all easy to see the forest for the trees, and some of those trees are definitely trying to kill us, so it focusing on those trees is understandable.
posted by adamrice at 7:48 AM on July 27, 2024 [28 favorites]
Man, I do get it. It is fucking exhausting. But that doesn't mean those doomsayers are wrong.
The Dobbs decision taught us that the forces of evil are organized and persistent. It was more than 40 years after Paul Weyrich manufactured abortion as a galvanizing issue for the right.
Today we have billionaire assholes like Peter Thiel, who A) says "democracy and freedom are incompatible," and B) manufactured J.D. Vance as a political figure and had him installed as the VP to an aging, overweight, demented buffoon.
But we also have a Democratic party that has gone from being as organized as a soccer game for 8 year olds to having real party discipline. We have a Republican party that has gone through two purges of whoever was nominally competent and non-crazy, and is now simply a cult of personality adoring the Orange Menace.
The future is not assured, and it's hard to know how to prioritize the different features on the political landscape. Some people (including some people on Metafilter) see everything refracted through a particular issue.
I guess what I'm saying is that the world is a complicated place, U.S. politics are complicated, it's not at all easy to see the forest for the trees, and some of those trees are definitely trying to kill us, so it focusing on those trees is understandable.
posted by adamrice at 7:48 AM on July 27, 2024 [28 favorites]
If Biff Butthead wins, we won't get a nice neat orderly Project 2025 deathmarch.
Yes, this, very much this. Or as I've been telling people: "Trump isn't a Nazi....the Nazis were much better organized! And had better uniforms."
That's not in any way to minimize the danger that a shambolic, disorganized, destructive Republican takeover would include. A future with camps and crackdowns is one we need to fight against, a future where there are nuclear plant meltdowns because the QAnon Shaman was appointed Secretary of Energy is also one worth fighting against.
posted by gimonca at 7:55 AM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
Yes, this, very much this. Or as I've been telling people: "Trump isn't a Nazi....the Nazis were much better organized! And had better uniforms."
That's not in any way to minimize the danger that a shambolic, disorganized, destructive Republican takeover would include. A future with camps and crackdowns is one we need to fight against, a future where there are nuclear plant meltdowns because the QAnon Shaman was appointed Secretary of Energy is also one worth fighting against.
posted by gimonca at 7:55 AM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
Shouldn't we give him the benefit of the doubt because his last attempt at siezing power and overthrowing democracy was 43 months ago?
Yeah, I really don't get people acting like this is not a big deal or that he really means this other thing.
Trump and a considerable chunk of House and Senate Republicans have already attempted a coup against the United States. When he says they won't need to vote again, he means it.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:03 AM on July 27, 2024 [29 favorites]
Yeah, I really don't get people acting like this is not a big deal or that he really means this other thing.
Trump and a considerable chunk of House and Senate Republicans have already attempted a coup against the United States. When he says they won't need to vote again, he means it.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:03 AM on July 27, 2024 [29 favorites]
And if we assume he means the worst possible thing and respond appropriately, but then it turns out he meant something not as bad, well, frankly that's on him for not communicating more clearly. Better safe than sorry, I say.
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue."—Barry Goldwater
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:11 AM on July 27, 2024 [10 favorites]
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue."—Barry Goldwater
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:11 AM on July 27, 2024 [10 favorites]
"It's the end, give us all your money/spend all your free time on saving democracy" isn't a sustainable message, particularly when coupled with the constant bitter and unhinged ranting here about how America never was a democracy, it's all already over, there is no hope, it doesn't matter if the Democrats win because of [genocide/student loans/housing/racism/gerrymandering]
I understand what you are saying, but I'm one of those MeFites that many of the self-proclaimed left here would sneeringly call a "centrist". I also have been mostly avoiding politics threads here for the last several years because of the toxicity. So I hope with that in mind it means something for someone like me to say: this moment is significant, we cannot afford to ignore it. It is as significant as the moment when Trump said in 2016 that he would accept the results of the election "if I win", by which he obviously was saying he would not accept the results if he lost, and which was a promise that January 6 would come.
The problem with the boy who cried wolf analogy is that in that story, there were no wolves when the shepherd called the townspeople out to the pastures. In our world, the wolves have been in plain sight for 8+ years now, they're attacking and killing the flock, and still people are insisting that no, those aren't wolves, they're just bad dogs. January 6 happened. The only thing standing between our democracy and an actual coup d'etat was the conscience of Mike fucking Pence. Things could have gone very differently, and they still could go that way.
I don't think this is doomerism. The momentum behind Harris is really incredible right now and I think we are going to win this election. But to really win, to chase these creepy weirdoes away and get them back into the shadows where they belong, it needs to be an indisputable landslide. No political movement can prevail in the face of overwhelming public action against it, no matter how undemocratic it is. I think we can do it, but we need to throw everything we have into it. I'm sorry it's been going on for such a long time, but no one ever promised that democracy would be easy.
posted by biogeo at 8:12 AM on July 27, 2024 [57 favorites]
This is a wild quote. I'm surprised it's not getting more coverage - it seems to just be blowing up on social media so far.
posted by catcafe at 8:22 AM on July 27, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by catcafe at 8:22 AM on July 27, 2024 [3 favorites]
Who knows what TFG ever means?
It could be 'fixed' as in the Project 2025 will be firmly in place (probably the message he would like that audience to take, but it's on them if that's the takeaway. Suckers!).
'Fixed' as in his own legal troubles will go away and he can leave office without fear of ever facing consequences and who the hell cares after that (ding ding ding).
Or 'fixed' could mean 'rigged' and he could continue to revel in the fear and love of the public and be the centre of the universe until he dies in office however long that takes (escape consequences + attention = win bigly!).
Reject all possibilities.
posted by mazola at 8:34 AM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
It could be 'fixed' as in the Project 2025 will be firmly in place (probably the message he would like that audience to take, but it's on them if that's the takeaway. Suckers!).
'Fixed' as in his own legal troubles will go away and he can leave office without fear of ever facing consequences and who the hell cares after that (ding ding ding).
Or 'fixed' could mean 'rigged' and he could continue to revel in the fear and love of the public and be the centre of the universe until he dies in office however long that takes (escape consequences + attention = win bigly!).
Reject all possibilities.
posted by mazola at 8:34 AM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
He says a lot of bullshit. Even if he does mean there will be no more elections .. how would that even be achieved. I mean seriously, realistically , without devolving into liberal panic mode, how could this be done?
posted by Liquidwolf at 8:37 AM on July 27, 2024
posted by Liquidwolf at 8:37 AM on July 27, 2024
If Biff Butthead wins, we won't get a nice neat orderly Project 2025 deathmarch.
Still probably wise to make sure he doesn't win. But I believe we are all in agreement on that score.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:38 AM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
Still probably wise to make sure he doesn't win. But I believe we are all in agreement on that score.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:38 AM on July 27, 2024 [4 favorites]
He says a lot of bullshit. Even if he does mean there will be no more elections .. how would that even be achieved. I mean seriously, realistically , without devolving into liberal panic mode, how could this be done?
I don't think the idea behind the claim "democracy is at stake" is that Trump will be declared President for Life and no future elections will ever be held. It is that future elections will be vastly less responsive to the popular will than they already are.
Gerrymandering, voter ID laws, and illegal attempts at voter suppression already help the right suppress the influence of demographics they don't win with. The electoral college and a corrupt supreme court have handed victory to the Republicans despite them losing both the popular and electoral college votes in 2000.
We saw a preview of these tactics in 2020. The fake electors scheme failed, but if someone like Vance was there to approve "alternate slates", then the Trump court says the decision as made by the VP has to stand for some bullshit reason, and suddenly anything but a crushing landslide for Democrats becomes a Republican victory. There will still be politics. Democrats may occasionally manage to do some legislative good. But the grotesquely powerful executive branch that has been developed over the last half century will be firmly in the hands of fascists.
It is possible these tactics will fail. That there is enough institutional resillience or enough people with genuine respect for the system that they won't succeed. But they are absolutely going to try. I don't want the future of the country to hang on Brett Kavanaugh and Samuel Alito's integrity
There isn't going to be some big "democracy is over" announcement. Just a continuation of the undemocratic tactics we are already dealing with.
posted by pattern juggler at 8:50 AM on July 27, 2024 [21 favorites]
I don't think the idea behind the claim "democracy is at stake" is that Trump will be declared President for Life and no future elections will ever be held. It is that future elections will be vastly less responsive to the popular will than they already are.
Gerrymandering, voter ID laws, and illegal attempts at voter suppression already help the right suppress the influence of demographics they don't win with. The electoral college and a corrupt supreme court have handed victory to the Republicans despite them losing both the popular and electoral college votes in 2000.
We saw a preview of these tactics in 2020. The fake electors scheme failed, but if someone like Vance was there to approve "alternate slates", then the Trump court says the decision as made by the VP has to stand for some bullshit reason, and suddenly anything but a crushing landslide for Democrats becomes a Republican victory. There will still be politics. Democrats may occasionally manage to do some legislative good. But the grotesquely powerful executive branch that has been developed over the last half century will be firmly in the hands of fascists.
It is possible these tactics will fail. That there is enough institutional resillience or enough people with genuine respect for the system that they won't succeed. But they are absolutely going to try. I don't want the future of the country to hang on Brett Kavanaugh and Samuel Alito's integrity
There isn't going to be some big "democracy is over" announcement. Just a continuation of the undemocratic tactics we are already dealing with.
posted by pattern juggler at 8:50 AM on July 27, 2024 [21 favorites]
There isn't going to be some big "democracy is over" announcement. Just a continuation of the undemocratic tactics we are already dealing with.
Yeah that seems possible. Republicans will contest every loosing election and hope that some of them go to the Supreme Court and ruled in their favor for as long as that option exists. That’s the new tactic since they can’t win by votes.
posted by Liquidwolf at 9:00 AM on July 27, 2024 [7 favorites]
Yeah that seems possible. Republicans will contest every loosing election and hope that some of them go to the Supreme Court and ruled in their favor for as long as that option exists. That’s the new tactic since they can’t win by votes.
posted by Liquidwolf at 9:00 AM on July 27, 2024 [7 favorites]
The Guardian takes it head on:
Trump tells supporters they won’t have to vote in the future: ‘It’ll be fixed!’: Former president implores Christian supports to vote ‘just this time’, then says he’s not Christian [The Guardian]
Trump tells supporters they won’t have to vote in the future: ‘It’ll be fixed!’: Former president implores Christian supports to vote ‘just this time’, then says he’s not Christian [The Guardian]
Experts on authoritarianism warn the public to take Trump seriously when he speaks in that manner. And before Joe Biden halted his re-election campaign on 21 July and endorsed Kamala Harris to succeed him in the Oval Office, the Democratic president repeatedly sought to portray Trump as an existential threat to American democracy.posted by mazola at 9:00 AM on July 27, 2024 [14 favorites]
Trump’s supporters have tried to blame that rhetoric for the failed 13 July assassination attempt that targeted the former president at a political rally in Pennsylvania. The FBI said on Friday that a bullet – whether whole or fragmented – hit Trump in one of his ears during that day’s shooting, which also killed a rally-goer and wounded two other spectators before a Secret Service sniper shot the gunman to death.
Yet many pointed out how Trump’s remarks on Friday seemed to be an indication that the Republican nominee for president had no plans to stop making explicit threats against democratic norms, including elections themselves.
Even if he does mean there will be no more elections .. how would that even be achieved.
Each house is the judge of its own elections, so a Republican majority can just declare that all the Republican candidates actually won their elections, forever. Likewise, a Republican Congress can just challenge or disregard some or all of the elected electoral votes and install whoever they like as president. If they install someone who's ineligible to actually be president, that's fine as long as either the courts or enough of federal law enforcement and military support it.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:01 AM on July 27, 2024 [3 favorites]
Each house is the judge of its own elections, so a Republican majority can just declare that all the Republican candidates actually won their elections, forever. Likewise, a Republican Congress can just challenge or disregard some or all of the elected electoral votes and install whoever they like as president. If they install someone who's ineligible to actually be president, that's fine as long as either the courts or enough of federal law enforcement and military support it.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:01 AM on July 27, 2024 [3 favorites]
I don't think my donation actually matters?
MiraK I paid the $5 to say, yes it absolutely does. I sometimes work with political campaigns and they are ad-hoc, thrown-together, temporary organizations that have to immediately function like a corporation that has been running for decades. Making a quickly-assembled org of partly paid staff and partly volunteer staff communicate and coordinate efficiently and smoothly is expensive in and of itself. Then there's the stuff a campaign actually does.
Think about just the logistics and operational costs of having a rally. There's the venue to rent (hard to find exact numbers for obvious reasons but here's a report of the Trump campaign paying $54K to rent a venue for a single rally), signs to print, decorations, lodging, food, travel for hundreds of staff and the candidate themselves, as well as paying to take care of the press pool who come along with the campaign. And that's just rallies.
If you've read about the massive Zoom calls the Harris campaign has been doing as donation drives, I guarantee the campaign is footing the bill for the extra bandwidth needed to have ten thousand people on a single Zoom.
Add to that kind of thing the cost of, basically overnight, assembling infrastructure like: a website and someone to design and develop it, someone else to write/create its content (these are most likely teams of skilled professionals who quit their six figure salary day jobs to do this work or a digital agency has been hired to the tune of millions). The site has to be hosted on reliable, secure servers. There are separate vendors for donation collection (e.g. ActBlue), email
address collection and email list management (e.g. ActionNetwork, EveryAction, etc), and a national campaign might use more than one of each because the sheer volume of emails and donation could overwhelm the small staff of any single SaaS org.
Then there's the ads and social media content and those annoying email blasts - those need to be written, shot (in the case of ads, which means paying actors, directors, crew etc) , designed, etc and every platform that displays the ads charges for that, and for TV ads every region in the country is its own market.
(This, btw, is why so often Trump and GOP campaign efforts seem outdated or hokey or broken - Trump is a cheapskate and unwilling to pay for work well done even when he has the money. This cycle he is funnelling huge amounts donated cash to foot his massive legal bills, leaving not very much for all of the above, meaning giving Harris more $ gives her a powerful advantage. Also: donate to your state, local, and Congressional candidates because the RNC is now controlled by Trump and is absolutely not spending its money wisely to elect down ballot politicians, meaning your local candidates could also benefit from that advantage.)
Remember after the 2016 election, one of the criticisms of HRC's campaign was that she didn't campaign enough in the upper Midwest? That was, in part, a financial decision; her campaign mistakenly thought she had that on lockdown, so the money could be spent elsewhere. At the time, her campaign was the most well-funded in history, and yet they were having to make decisions like "should we spend money on this region?"
Campaigns are money black holes, and I guarantee your $10 or whatever you donate totally matters and will get put to good use, and may even help make some small but useful measure possible when it wasn't before.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 9:02 AM on July 27, 2024 [141 favorites]
MiraK I paid the $5 to say, yes it absolutely does. I sometimes work with political campaigns and they are ad-hoc, thrown-together, temporary organizations that have to immediately function like a corporation that has been running for decades. Making a quickly-assembled org of partly paid staff and partly volunteer staff communicate and coordinate efficiently and smoothly is expensive in and of itself. Then there's the stuff a campaign actually does.
Think about just the logistics and operational costs of having a rally. There's the venue to rent (hard to find exact numbers for obvious reasons but here's a report of the Trump campaign paying $54K to rent a venue for a single rally), signs to print, decorations, lodging, food, travel for hundreds of staff and the candidate themselves, as well as paying to take care of the press pool who come along with the campaign. And that's just rallies.
If you've read about the massive Zoom calls the Harris campaign has been doing as donation drives, I guarantee the campaign is footing the bill for the extra bandwidth needed to have ten thousand people on a single Zoom.
Add to that kind of thing the cost of, basically overnight, assembling infrastructure like: a website and someone to design and develop it, someone else to write/create its content (these are most likely teams of skilled professionals who quit their six figure salary day jobs to do this work or a digital agency has been hired to the tune of millions). The site has to be hosted on reliable, secure servers. There are separate vendors for donation collection (e.g. ActBlue), email
address collection and email list management (e.g. ActionNetwork, EveryAction, etc), and a national campaign might use more than one of each because the sheer volume of emails and donation could overwhelm the small staff of any single SaaS org.
Then there's the ads and social media content and those annoying email blasts - those need to be written, shot (in the case of ads, which means paying actors, directors, crew etc) , designed, etc and every platform that displays the ads charges for that, and for TV ads every region in the country is its own market.
(This, btw, is why so often Trump and GOP campaign efforts seem outdated or hokey or broken - Trump is a cheapskate and unwilling to pay for work well done even when he has the money. This cycle he is funnelling huge amounts donated cash to foot his massive legal bills, leaving not very much for all of the above, meaning giving Harris more $ gives her a powerful advantage. Also: donate to your state, local, and Congressional candidates because the RNC is now controlled by Trump and is absolutely not spending its money wisely to elect down ballot politicians, meaning your local candidates could also benefit from that advantage.)
Remember after the 2016 election, one of the criticisms of HRC's campaign was that she didn't campaign enough in the upper Midwest? That was, in part, a financial decision; her campaign mistakenly thought she had that on lockdown, so the money could be spent elsewhere. At the time, her campaign was the most well-funded in history, and yet they were having to make decisions like "should we spend money on this region?"
Campaigns are money black holes, and I guarantee your $10 or whatever you donate totally matters and will get put to good use, and may even help make some small but useful measure possible when it wasn't before.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 9:02 AM on July 27, 2024 [141 favorites]
Welcome to MetaFilter, A Most Curious Rabbit. That's a really fantastic first comment.
posted by biogeo at 9:09 AM on July 27, 2024 [40 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 9:09 AM on July 27, 2024 [40 favorites]
J.D. Vance's ties to people who literally want to bring back monarchy are enough to make me interpret a statement like "you won't have to vote again" in the worst possible way.
(If you have not yet read Neoreaction a Basilisk, it's always a great time!)
posted by Jeanne at 9:10 AM on July 27, 2024 [16 favorites]
(If you have not yet read Neoreaction a Basilisk, it's always a great time!)
posted by Jeanne at 9:10 AM on July 27, 2024 [16 favorites]
I mean seriously, realistically , without devolving into liberal panic mode, how could this be done?
I think the question is more, who will stop them? At the bare metal level, a democratic system of government requires some level of shared commitment to those principles among those who contend for and wield power. I believe that the people in charge of the current Republican Party have abandoned that commitment and I’m not confident there’s any bottom to how far they would be willing to dismantle the system if given unified control of the three branches. If the President declares a state of emergency on some pretext and says we’ll get back to normal elections once the emergency is over, and it just never is, you and I will say it’s unconstitutional, but what if the Supreme Court says it’s fine? I guess a military coup would be our best hope at that point.
I think more extreme forms of voter suppression and minority persecution while maintaining a veneer of democratic functioning is probably a more likely scenario, but can you really look at the people involved and say, oh, they would never go that far? I sure can’t.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:11 AM on July 27, 2024 [6 favorites]
I think the question is more, who will stop them? At the bare metal level, a democratic system of government requires some level of shared commitment to those principles among those who contend for and wield power. I believe that the people in charge of the current Republican Party have abandoned that commitment and I’m not confident there’s any bottom to how far they would be willing to dismantle the system if given unified control of the three branches. If the President declares a state of emergency on some pretext and says we’ll get back to normal elections once the emergency is over, and it just never is, you and I will say it’s unconstitutional, but what if the Supreme Court says it’s fine? I guess a military coup would be our best hope at that point.
I think more extreme forms of voter suppression and minority persecution while maintaining a veneer of democratic functioning is probably a more likely scenario, but can you really look at the people involved and say, oh, they would never go that far? I sure can’t.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 9:11 AM on July 27, 2024 [6 favorites]
With Trump, I am reminded of Bob and Ray's Tippy the Wonder Dog.
There would be a family crisis with Tippy acting in the role of Lassie. For example, a herd of steer would be stampeding, crashing against the walls of the cabin. The family would send Tippy off. "Quick, Tippy. Go get help." Tippy would return with some useless item like an apron. Then the family would stand around interpreting the item. "Tippy is trying to tell us to start a barbecue. Every moment of danger is an opportunity. Tippy is the smartest, bravest dog ever."
Trump will come up with something stupid or dangerous and then the press will stand around interpreting something meaningful or benign.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:20 AM on July 27, 2024 [21 favorites]
There would be a family crisis with Tippy acting in the role of Lassie. For example, a herd of steer would be stampeding, crashing against the walls of the cabin. The family would send Tippy off. "Quick, Tippy. Go get help." Tippy would return with some useless item like an apron. Then the family would stand around interpreting the item. "Tippy is trying to tell us to start a barbecue. Every moment of danger is an opportunity. Tippy is the smartest, bravest dog ever."
Trump will come up with something stupid or dangerous and then the press will stand around interpreting something meaningful or benign.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:20 AM on July 27, 2024 [21 favorites]
He either knew what he was saying which is problematic or he didn't know what he was saying which is differently problematic.
This. My response to my SIL upon receiving the clip - So just watched that over coffee. Simply surreal and unreal at the same time. Either he's decided his disciples are actually down for that play, or he's gone finally and completely over the infinite edge of his raging megalomania - and either one is equally and fiercely frightening.
posted by thecincinnatikid at 9:26 AM on July 27, 2024 [3 favorites]
This. My response to my SIL upon receiving the clip - So just watched that over coffee. Simply surreal and unreal at the same time. Either he's decided his disciples are actually down for that play, or he's gone finally and completely over the infinite edge of his raging megalomania - and either one is equally and fiercely frightening.
posted by thecincinnatikid at 9:26 AM on July 27, 2024 [3 favorites]
The Times did a feature on Buttigieg today and there was a point in the interview with a back and forth about how the press covered Biden's candidacy and Buttigieg said it was unfair and reporter took umbrage with that.
Right now, the top of the Times' homepage is three pieces about JD Vance, three pieces about Kamala Harris, and the "breaking news" item about this story is a tiny headline below the fold.
posted by Captaintripps at 9:40 AM on July 27, 2024 [10 favorites]
Right now, the top of the Times' homepage is three pieces about JD Vance, three pieces about Kamala Harris, and the "breaking news" item about this story is a tiny headline below the fold.
posted by Captaintripps at 9:40 AM on July 27, 2024 [10 favorites]
I mean seriously, realistically , without devolving into liberal panic mode, how could this be done?
The risk is not that there won't be elections, but that the elections won't matter because they're not free and fair. How they would achieve this is by doing what they've already been doing in states where they have enough power:
- Purge registered Democratic voters from the voter rolls without informing them and use this as an excuse to deny them access to the ballot on election day.
- Close enough polling places in Democratic strongholds so that lines to vote become so long that many people give up and/or simply don't make it in to vote on time.
- Claim that precincts with high numbers of Democratic voters have high levels of fraud and all of those ballots must be tossed out.
- Use the courts and the media to harass honest poll workers until they quit.
- Use political operatives appointed as judges to provide legal cover for all of the above.
posted by biogeo at 9:44 AM on July 27, 2024 [64 favorites]
FYI Newsweek is a republican rag now; it's basically Fox News for people who can sort of read.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:47 AM on July 27, 2024 [12 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:47 AM on July 27, 2024 [12 favorites]
Many MeFites have been ringing multiple alarm bells so loudly, for so long, that it's Boy Who Cried Wolf Day over here every single day. A diverse community will have diverse opinions, but IMHO, there's a nice, steady drumbeat of doom here.
I was just recently thinking about the Boy Who Cried Wolf (in my case, because a conservative believed that Dems were crying wolf about racism in the GOP). In the end of every version I've heard, the boy is torn apart by real wolves. This is meant to be a caution to anyone who might take on, even accidentally, the role of the boy. "Don't raise the alarm unless you are certain!", the story tells us.
Of course, normalcy bias is baked into human psychology and already tells us that. So let's see what other lessons we might mine from the story.
Revisiting the story with an adult's perspective, the boy was not the only person who acted foolishly. The townspeople didn't have anyone they could trust that could let them know that wolves were killing one of their kids! That's a terrible failure on their part. Among those townspeople, there is probably a parent or two whose son is now dead. Did that have to happen? What could the townspeople have done better? Couldn't they have gotten another lookout?!?
Since MeFi could be full of unreliable boys crying wolf, what are some lookouts that we might be able to actually trust about what the GOP is actually up to? I think political scientists with an international, comparative focus should be a pretty good signal here. I'm super busy at work, so I don't have a ton of time to hunt down different sources. However, this might be of interest: The V-Dem Institute's report focused on the United States reads as a litany of the ways the Republican party has trended away from commitment to democracy toward illiberalism in the period from 2000-2018, mirroring the trajectory of Orban's Fidesz party in Hungary.
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 11:02 AM on July 27, 2024 [16 favorites]
I was just recently thinking about the Boy Who Cried Wolf (in my case, because a conservative believed that Dems were crying wolf about racism in the GOP). In the end of every version I've heard, the boy is torn apart by real wolves. This is meant to be a caution to anyone who might take on, even accidentally, the role of the boy. "Don't raise the alarm unless you are certain!", the story tells us.
Of course, normalcy bias is baked into human psychology and already tells us that. So let's see what other lessons we might mine from the story.
Revisiting the story with an adult's perspective, the boy was not the only person who acted foolishly. The townspeople didn't have anyone they could trust that could let them know that wolves were killing one of their kids! That's a terrible failure on their part. Among those townspeople, there is probably a parent or two whose son is now dead. Did that have to happen? What could the townspeople have done better? Couldn't they have gotten another lookout?!?
Since MeFi could be full of unreliable boys crying wolf, what are some lookouts that we might be able to actually trust about what the GOP is actually up to? I think political scientists with an international, comparative focus should be a pretty good signal here. I'm super busy at work, so I don't have a ton of time to hunt down different sources. However, this might be of interest: The V-Dem Institute's report focused on the United States reads as a litany of the ways the Republican party has trended away from commitment to democracy toward illiberalism in the period from 2000-2018, mirroring the trajectory of Orban's Fidesz party in Hungary.
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 11:02 AM on July 27, 2024 [16 favorites]
In the end of every version I've heard, the boy is torn apart by real wolves.
Wow, news to me. According to Wikipedia,
posted by Rash at 11:37 AM on July 27, 2024 [2 favorites]
Wow, news to me. According to Wikipedia,
When an actual wolf appears and the boy calls for help, the villagers believe that it is another false alarm, and the sheep are eaten by the wolf. In a later English-language poetic version of the fable, the wolf also eats the boy.And here I thought the trend was to water-down the old stories so they wouldn't be so frightening to the kids.
posted by Rash at 11:37 AM on July 27, 2024 [2 favorites]
I think what should not be underestimated is the theological indoctrination of evangelicals happening since many decades, the seven Mountains and the new Cyrus. This has been around at least since the nineties when i was still a member of a christian fundamentalist cult which was based on US sources/dominion teaching.
Currently they claim Trump is this new Cyrus. And this Cyrus figure, despite not being Christian themselves, will be used by god to bring about the christian goals.
When i was still a believer (i left after 13 yrs in 1994) the seven mountains and the Cyrus teaching was taught as the new plan of how fundamentalist Christianity would take over the world. They pray and do "spiritual warfare" and go vote for whomever is declared "Cyrus" by their leaders, pastors and prophets. But not because of anything Trump says or does but because they are deluded that he is used by "God" to bring about the Kingdom.
(I no longer believe this crap but i once did i am ashamed to say).
posted by 15L06 at 12:42 PM on July 27, 2024 [20 favorites]
Currently they claim Trump is this new Cyrus. And this Cyrus figure, despite not being Christian themselves, will be used by god to bring about the christian goals.
When i was still a believer (i left after 13 yrs in 1994) the seven mountains and the Cyrus teaching was taught as the new plan of how fundamentalist Christianity would take over the world. They pray and do "spiritual warfare" and go vote for whomever is declared "Cyrus" by their leaders, pastors and prophets. But not because of anything Trump says or does but because they are deluded that he is used by "God" to bring about the Kingdom.
(I no longer believe this crap but i once did i am ashamed to say).
posted by 15L06 at 12:42 PM on July 27, 2024 [20 favorites]
a faded photo of their beloved, that V-Dem link is giving me a 403 Forbidden error. Might you have another link?
posted by kristi at 12:53 PM on July 27, 2024
posted by kristi at 12:53 PM on July 27, 2024
> The far right have been talking about this for a while now. They call it "Red Caesar": the idea of a right-wing strongman taking power and putting an end to the Constitution.
> (If you have not yet read Neoreaction a Basilisk, it's always a great time!)
Where J.D. Vance Gets His Weird, Terrifying Techno-Authoritarian Ideas (0:33 — Gil Durán) - "Yes, Peter Thiel was the senator's benefactor. But they're both inspired by an obscure software developer who has some truly frightening thoughts about reordering society."[1,2,3; dark enlightenment/neoreaction previously]
> Cruelty is the tactic. Power is the point... If Biff Butthead wins, we won't get a nice neat orderly Project 2025 deathmarch. We'll get partial, conflicting implementations, partial governmental teardowns, breakdowns, mountains of lawsuits, endless shouty weapon-waving fights among infinite local councils, law enforcement, school boards, legislative bodies and courthouses across the land. Total asymmetrical chaos. The only certainty is that everyone will be so busy going after each other, no one will notice Trump and his cronies stealing everything not nailed down.
this is also, btw, what xi and putin would relish...
> how could this be done?
there is a reason why orban receives so much fawning adulation from the right:
Shadowy Mega-Rich Christian Supremacist Organization Wants to Politically Define US Future w/ Andy Kroll - "A new investigation by ProPublica has uncovered a shadowy non-profit organization that problematically, and probably illegally, is pushing a hyper conservative right wing agenda in this country that very specifically aims to center the church in all parts of society. The group describes its membership as a 'private, confidential, invitation-only community of high-net-worth Christian families' with a minimum net worth of $25 million. The organization is called Ziklag, which itself is a biblical reference. Our guest is Andy Kroll, a reporter for ProPublica covering voting, elections and other democracy issues. He is one of the reporters on this shocking story, which is titled, 'Inside Ziklag, the Secret Organization of Wealthy Christians Trying to Sway the Election and Change the Country.'"
posted by kliuless at 1:00 PM on July 27, 2024 [27 favorites]
> (If you have not yet read Neoreaction a Basilisk, it's always a great time!)
Where J.D. Vance Gets His Weird, Terrifying Techno-Authoritarian Ideas (0:33 — Gil Durán) - "Yes, Peter Thiel was the senator's benefactor. But they're both inspired by an obscure software developer who has some truly frightening thoughts about reordering society."[1,2,3; dark enlightenment/neoreaction previously]
> Cruelty is the tactic. Power is the point... If Biff Butthead wins, we won't get a nice neat orderly Project 2025 deathmarch. We'll get partial, conflicting implementations, partial governmental teardowns, breakdowns, mountains of lawsuits, endless shouty weapon-waving fights among infinite local councils, law enforcement, school boards, legislative bodies and courthouses across the land. Total asymmetrical chaos. The only certainty is that everyone will be so busy going after each other, no one will notice Trump and his cronies stealing everything not nailed down.
this is also, btw, what xi and putin would relish...
> how could this be done?
there is a reason why orban receives so much fawning adulation from the right:
- Is Hungary a Model for Trump? - "We examine Donald Trump's affinity for Viktor Orban, Hungary's prime minister."
- I watched Hungary's democracy dissolve into authoritarianism as a member of parliament − and I see troubling parallels in Trumpism and its appeal to workers - "How can strongmen get away with these antidemocratic politics? If there is one lesson from Hungary, it is this: Democracy is not sustainable in a divided society where many are left behind economically. The real power of authoritarian populists like Trump and Orban lies not in the institutions they hijack but in the novel electoral support coalition they create. They bring together two types of supporters. Some hardcore, authoritarian-right voters are motivated by bigotry and hatred rooted in their fear of globalization's cultural threats. However, the most successful right-wing populist forces integrate an outer layer of primarily working-class voters hurt by globalization's economic threats. Throughout the 20th century, Democrats in the U.S. and left-of-center parties in Europe provided a political home for those fearing economic insecurity. This fostered a political system that engendered equality and a healthy social fabric, giving people reason to care for liberal democratic institutions. However, when the economy fails to deliver, disillusionment with capitalism morphs into an apathy toward liberal democracy. If the liberal center appears uncaring, authoritarian populists can mobilize voters against both the cultural and economic threats posed by globalization. As I showed in my book, neglecting this suffering was the democratic center's politically lethal failure. By today, Hungary's liberal and left-of-center parties have retreated to the biggest cities, leaving their former provincial political strongholds up for grabs for the radical right. The same is taking place in the U.S., with the Republicans becoming a party of the working class and nonmetropolitan America."
- What can Viktor Orbn's rise as a conservative superstar teach Trump? - "Orban won the Hungarian election in 2010 with a special moment after the crisis, and he received a constitutional majority in the Hungarian Parliament by one party. And ever since, he has been changing the rules of the game of Hungarian democracy. So over the years, he developed a system which he calls illiberal system, where there is more and more power gathered in the hand of the prime minister. So when he is talking to people abroad, Americans, he is selling his illiberal system as an example for form of governance where one strong leader has such a power than him."
Shadowy Mega-Rich Christian Supremacist Organization Wants to Politically Define US Future w/ Andy Kroll - "A new investigation by ProPublica has uncovered a shadowy non-profit organization that problematically, and probably illegally, is pushing a hyper conservative right wing agenda in this country that very specifically aims to center the church in all parts of society. The group describes its membership as a 'private, confidential, invitation-only community of high-net-worth Christian families' with a minimum net worth of $25 million. The organization is called Ziklag, which itself is a biblical reference. Our guest is Andy Kroll, a reporter for ProPublica covering voting, elections and other democracy issues. He is one of the reporters on this shocking story, which is titled, 'Inside Ziklag, the Secret Organization of Wealthy Christians Trying to Sway the Election and Change the Country.'"
posted by kliuless at 1:00 PM on July 27, 2024 [27 favorites]
As I was reading this thread this morning, I kept thinking about the parallels with Orbán and Hungary. Thank you kliuless for raising it first. Orbán is the model here and he has, wilfully, carefully, and intelligently established an authoritarian, illiberal, anti-democratic state. And he is further entrenching this. For example, in December last year he established a so-called Sovereign Protection Office which possesses, ".. unfettered access to personal data to find and sanction supposed foreign agents among the Hungarian populace. This office operates at will and without oversight, offers no avenue for legal redress, and wields prison time upwards of three years." In other words, a secret police force. And of course Orbán is aggressively backing Trump because he recognises an ally when he sees one. While of course the two states are very different in so many ways, Hungary does provide a model of how many in the GOP wish to see the US become.
posted by vac2003 at 1:27 PM on July 27, 2024 [13 favorites]
posted by vac2003 at 1:27 PM on July 27, 2024 [13 favorites]
Mod note: A Most Curious Rabbit's awesome comment about how small donations help has been added to the sidebar and Best Of blog!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 2:09 PM on July 27, 2024 [35 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 2:09 PM on July 27, 2024 [35 favorites]
a faded photo of their beloved, that V-Dem link is giving me a 403 Forbidden error. Might you have another link?
Weird! Sorry for the inconvenience. Here's a cached version of the V-Dem Institute's paper on the GOP that should be accessible.
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 2:26 PM on July 27, 2024 [1 favorite]
Weird! Sorry for the inconvenience. Here's a cached version of the V-Dem Institute's paper on the GOP that should be accessible.
posted by a faded photo of their beloved at 2:26 PM on July 27, 2024 [1 favorite]
how could this be done?
One example: Democrats win the House of Representatives with a narrow margin, say three seats. A large red-state governor (Abbott, say, or DeSantis) decides, arbitrarily and illegally, to refuse to certify the election of Democratic congressional representatives in their state. The reduced House organizes under Republican control, in spite of the Democratic victory in the election. The Republican Supreme Court refuses to intervene in the constitutional crisis, and possibly adds to the crisis by overturning Powell v. McCormack, allowing the Republican House to refuse to seat anyone, regardless of how they were elected, and without having to go through the formal process of expulsion.
Is it legal, or even rational? No, of course not. But who knows what they'll try next?
posted by gimonca at 2:36 PM on July 27, 2024 [12 favorites]
One example: Democrats win the House of Representatives with a narrow margin, say three seats. A large red-state governor (Abbott, say, or DeSantis) decides, arbitrarily and illegally, to refuse to certify the election of Democratic congressional representatives in their state. The reduced House organizes under Republican control, in spite of the Democratic victory in the election. The Republican Supreme Court refuses to intervene in the constitutional crisis, and possibly adds to the crisis by overturning Powell v. McCormack, allowing the Republican House to refuse to seat anyone, regardless of how they were elected, and without having to go through the formal process of expulsion.
Is it legal, or even rational? No, of course not. But who knows what they'll try next?
posted by gimonca at 2:36 PM on July 27, 2024 [12 favorites]
Following up on my earlier comment, this is exactly what Trump and Republicans have been obsessively studying, and why they keep hosting conferences in Hungary, meeting with Putin, Oban and other fig leaf democracy dictators to learn the best practices:
Wikipedia - Guided democracy
Guided democracy, also called managed democracy, is a formally democratic government that functions as a de facto authoritarian government or, in some cases, as an autocratic government. Such hybrid regimes are legitimized by elections, but do not change the state's policies, motives, and goals. The concept is also related to semi-democracy, also known as anocracy.
posted by rambling wanderlust at 4:20 PM on July 27, 2024 [5 favorites]
Wikipedia - Guided democracy
Guided democracy, also called managed democracy, is a formally democratic government that functions as a de facto authoritarian government or, in some cases, as an autocratic government. Such hybrid regimes are legitimized by elections, but do not change the state's policies, motives, and goals. The concept is also related to semi-democracy, also known as anocracy.
posted by rambling wanderlust at 4:20 PM on July 27, 2024 [5 favorites]
Congratulations and kudos. The threat has been described and fleshed out, all the way down to the subatomic level. We now have more than enough nightmare fuel to last through the election and beyond. Good job, well done.
Why don't we now move the conversation toward what is being done and what more we can do to fight back? Or rather what else is having a pronounced effect, beyond the usual GOTV, protests and donations. For example, where are the fake Chick tracts warning that voting GOP will send you to hell? How do we communicate progressive values and their benefits to those who find leftist argot to be more offensive than sailor sex talk? And is there a 'T-Touch'-like protocol for getting our Trumper loved ones to simply listen to us?
That would be one hell of an empowering discussion to have.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:32 PM on July 27, 2024 [14 favorites]
Why don't we now move the conversation toward what is being done and what more we can do to fight back? Or rather what else is having a pronounced effect, beyond the usual GOTV, protests and donations. For example, where are the fake Chick tracts warning that voting GOP will send you to hell? How do we communicate progressive values and their benefits to those who find leftist argot to be more offensive than sailor sex talk? And is there a 'T-Touch'-like protocol for getting our Trumper loved ones to simply listen to us?
That would be one hell of an empowering discussion to have.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:32 PM on July 27, 2024 [14 favorites]
METAFILTER: fake Chick tracts warning that voting GOP will send you to hell
posted by philip-random at 6:29 PM on July 27, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 6:29 PM on July 27, 2024 [2 favorites]
Curtis Yarvin, Peter Thiel’s Kato Kaelin, was a grade-skipping genius at my high school. At twelve he was obviously smarter than us and underserved by the high school teachers who couldn’t keep up with him intellectually and weren’t able to connect with him to do any of the functional social emotional development work that they could generally offer the kids who were closer to the right maturity level for their peer group.
So even us nerds ostracized him, even as he skipped past us on his way to an early college matriculation. He was bullied by everyone, and it was a diverse school in a liberal area, and I can’t imagine those disconnects really ended once he left for college.
I can imagine some of his racism, classism and misanthropy comes from being bullied in a place that was so developmentally supportive for most everyone else.
I know enough to say this isn’t a definite cause of his developing a crackpot political philosophy, but I do know he was an unusual kid in an uncomfortable situation with high pressure and low support from the people around him who, to be fair, couldn’t provide to him what most kids need.
I feel like I’m writing about a school shooter and maybe that’s not so far a stretch.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 4:31 AM on July 28, 2024 [18 favorites]
So even us nerds ostracized him, even as he skipped past us on his way to an early college matriculation. He was bullied by everyone, and it was a diverse school in a liberal area, and I can’t imagine those disconnects really ended once he left for college.
I can imagine some of his racism, classism and misanthropy comes from being bullied in a place that was so developmentally supportive for most everyone else.
I know enough to say this isn’t a definite cause of his developing a crackpot political philosophy, but I do know he was an unusual kid in an uncomfortable situation with high pressure and low support from the people around him who, to be fair, couldn’t provide to him what most kids need.
I feel like I’m writing about a school shooter and maybe that’s not so far a stretch.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 4:31 AM on July 28, 2024 [18 favorites]
Dumping into this thread my final cache of relevant links I had been holding back. Please pardon my error if any/all have been posted to MeFi before...
Curtis Yarvin, writing under a pseudonym, proposed a horrific solution for people he deemed “not productive”: “convert them into biodiesel, which can help power the Muni buses.” Yarvin, a self-described reactionary and extremist who was 35 years old at the time, clarified that he was “just kidding.” (New Republic) His serious proposal? Consign the insufficiently productive to a real 'The Matrix'.
"...if Trump loses, [Republicans] have a plan to contest and possibly overturn the outcome." (Substack)
Why Some Americans Really Do Want an Authoritarian in Charge (New Republic)
Trump exemplifies extrinsic values "People at the extrinsic end of the spectrum are more attracted to prestige, status, image, fame, power and wealth. They are strongly motivated by the prospect of individual reward and praise. They are more likely to objectify and exploit other people, to behave rudely and aggressively and to dismiss social and environmental impacts. They have little interest in cooperation or community. People with a strong set of extrinsic values are more likely to suffer from frustration, dissatisfaction, stress, anxiety, anger and compulsive behaviour." (The Guardian on who votes for Trump)
George Monbiot comes face to face with his local conspiracy theorist (The Guardian)
So TTFN from me, and have funstorming the castle sharing how we feel about how others are/are not storming the castle, guys. From my own experience here, I feel confident that any actual prospective castle-stormers seeking actionable guidance will likely be better served via AskMe.
posted by zaixfeep at 6:30 AM on July 28, 2024 [4 favorites]
Curtis Yarvin, writing under a pseudonym, proposed a horrific solution for people he deemed “not productive”: “convert them into biodiesel, which can help power the Muni buses.” Yarvin, a self-described reactionary and extremist who was 35 years old at the time, clarified that he was “just kidding.” (New Republic) His serious proposal? Consign the insufficiently productive to a real 'The Matrix'.
"...if Trump loses, [Republicans] have a plan to contest and possibly overturn the outcome." (Substack)
Why Some Americans Really Do Want an Authoritarian in Charge (New Republic)
Trump exemplifies extrinsic values "People at the extrinsic end of the spectrum are more attracted to prestige, status, image, fame, power and wealth. They are strongly motivated by the prospect of individual reward and praise. They are more likely to objectify and exploit other people, to behave rudely and aggressively and to dismiss social and environmental impacts. They have little interest in cooperation or community. People with a strong set of extrinsic values are more likely to suffer from frustration, dissatisfaction, stress, anxiety, anger and compulsive behaviour." (The Guardian on who votes for Trump)
George Monbiot comes face to face with his local conspiracy theorist (The Guardian)
So TTFN from me, and have fun
posted by zaixfeep at 6:30 AM on July 28, 2024 [4 favorites]
(Welcome A Most Curious Rabbit - Honored to be the 100th to favorite your very first comment. Look forward to many more.)
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 6:57 AM on July 28, 2024 [3 favorites]
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 6:57 AM on July 28, 2024 [3 favorites]
I'm surprised to see anyone thinking that Trump didn't mean exactly what he said. Given 4 more years the voter suppression tactics outlined in this thread will achieve republican majorities that no longer need turnout to win "elections." Thomas and Alito are replaced so even if Roberts has qualms, a 5-4 supreme court, enshrined for decades, will find excuses to hand any close election to MAGA loyalists. His rabid supporters will literally not have to worry about boosting turnout anymore.
posted by being_quiet at 9:15 AM on July 28, 2024 [7 favorites]
posted by being_quiet at 9:15 AM on July 28, 2024 [7 favorites]
zaixfeep, there is already an excellent and empowering thread on what US MeFites are doing to push against the slide into fascism, here on MetaTalk.
posted by rosiroo at 9:23 AM on July 28, 2024 [8 favorites]
posted by rosiroo at 9:23 AM on July 28, 2024 [8 favorites]
Yeah I really don’t get “Trump doesn’t have means to do this” any more than “Trump didn’t mean this”.
Firstly, him wanting to do it is bad enough. Spread the word on what the fucker is up to.
Secondly this is an active Republican project that his courts have been making huge steps forwards on, he not only has means to make it happen HE HAS BEEN PART OF MAKING IT HAPPEN.
posted by Artw at 11:40 AM on July 28, 2024 [2 favorites]
Firstly, him wanting to do it is bad enough. Spread the word on what the fucker is up to.
Secondly this is an active Republican project that his courts have been making huge steps forwards on, he not only has means to make it happen HE HAS BEEN PART OF MAKING IT HAPPEN.
posted by Artw at 11:40 AM on July 28, 2024 [2 favorites]
Professor Donald Moynihan, McCourt Chair at the McCourt School of Public Policy, Georgetown University: "Will Voters Decide the 2024 Election? The GOP Plan for Trump to Win Even If He Loses"
Main portions:
Main portions:
- Projection: Justify Your Actions by Accusing Others of Democratic Attacks
- Normalizing Anti-Democratic Behavior
- Building a Legal Apparatus to Harass and Sow Doubt
- Undermining Democratic Trust in the Name of Restoring Trust
- Even If They Don’t Succeed, They Will do Enormous Damage
It may be that none of this will come to pass. If they fail — Trump loses at the ballot box, and then is not installed via some sort of political-judicial coup — the damage to American democracy is still substantial. Fewer and fewer people — mostly Republicans — don’t trust their democracy because their political leaders and media tell them not to. One survey found that only 2 in 10 Republicans were confident that the 2024 election would count votes accurately, compared to 7 out of 10 Democrats. It is concerning to see such polarized distrust of election officials who have, in aggregate, done an excellent job in trying conditions as the administrators of democracy.posted by cashman at 12:32 PM on July 28, 2024 [10 favorites]
Trump losing is therefore going to be greeted with deep distrust. On the other hand, a Trump victory would also empower the movement feeding that distrust, giving them a pathway back into national government. They will become more powerful as a result. Maybe this is what Trump was talking about when he told his supporters that “in four years you don’t have to vote again, we’ll have it fixed so good, your not going to have to vote.”
Part of the problem is that while many of the insurrectionists who entered the Capitol on January 6th were punished, the ringleaders were not. Trump has been in court, but no conviction will come before the election, and the Supreme Court has made any such a conviction much less likely with its blanket presumption of presidential immunity. Republicans looked at impeaching Trump when he was at his weakest moment, but chose not to. The 147 Republicans who voted to overturn the election in 2020 faced no meaningful penalty, while the Republicans who criticized Trump’s anti-democratic behavior have been largely purged from the party.
If a political party, a country and its institutions, cannot create a simple dividing line between those who accept democratic outcomes and those who don’t, the former will sooner or later come under the control of the latter.
15L06: They pray and do "spiritual warfare" and go vote for whomever is declared "Cyrus"
Thanks for mentioning this and your experience with this community. I think a large part of secular people underestimating this part of the opposition stems from being uninformed, or dismissive, about that side's organization and reach. eg, they have been actively recruiting Congressional staffers with a goal to make them immune to reason by giving them full-body kinds of Divine Miracle experiences. eg, one of the SWAJ episodes has mentioned that this time around, the GOP knows they made a mistake ignoring people of color before, and now they've been actively recruiting from evangelical Christian people of color, especially in swing states and districts. (This is a problem considering white Dems tend to take people of color votes for granted.)
I've only learned about Cyrus, etc, in the past year, from Straight White American Jesus podcast and their offshoot, Charismatic Revival Fury. They're hosted by religious studies scholars, and two of them were evangelical pastors in their youth. If anyone needs a morale booster on this topic, SWAJ also interviews Christians who recognize the threat and are fighting it in their communities.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 12:53 PM on July 28, 2024 [4 favorites]
Thanks for mentioning this and your experience with this community. I think a large part of secular people underestimating this part of the opposition stems from being uninformed, or dismissive, about that side's organization and reach. eg, they have been actively recruiting Congressional staffers with a goal to make them immune to reason by giving them full-body kinds of Divine Miracle experiences. eg, one of the SWAJ episodes has mentioned that this time around, the GOP knows they made a mistake ignoring people of color before, and now they've been actively recruiting from evangelical Christian people of color, especially in swing states and districts. (This is a problem considering white Dems tend to take people of color votes for granted.)
I've only learned about Cyrus, etc, in the past year, from Straight White American Jesus podcast and their offshoot, Charismatic Revival Fury. They're hosted by religious studies scholars, and two of them were evangelical pastors in their youth. If anyone needs a morale booster on this topic, SWAJ also interviews Christians who recognize the threat and are fighting it in their communities.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 12:53 PM on July 28, 2024 [4 favorites]
Re: Cyrus & Trump - if you haven't seen them, Mother Jones (2019) and The Guardian (2017) articles about the comparision; at one point, Jim Bakker was shilling this particular Trump/Cyrus coin; another coin.
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:27 PM on July 28, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:27 PM on July 28, 2024 [1 favorite]
The Washington Post finally is on the story.
posted by NotLost at 9:00 PM on July 28, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by NotLost at 9:00 PM on July 28, 2024 [2 favorites]
Walz absolutely has it down on the Republicans bring weird thing, seems like it would be worth keeping going with that.
posted by Artw at 9:39 PM on July 28, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 9:39 PM on July 28, 2024 [1 favorite]
At this late date, any waffling on "is trump a fascist" or "do the republicans want ethnic cleansing" or "but won't norms, rules, laws and shame prevent republicans from atavistic democide"...is to be a (possibly unwitting) accomplice to the bystander effect paralyzing the immune response of our dying political liberities. No, you don't have to hand it to them. Insurrection against democracy disqualifies republicans from the social contract. Win the election and defeat the next wave of their insurrection.
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 10:36 PM on July 28, 2024 [4 favorites]
posted by No Climate - No Food, No Food - No Future. at 10:36 PM on July 28, 2024 [4 favorites]
>Vote, organize, and donate like your right to vote depends on it, because it literally does
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but this has been the claim for 8+ years now.
I know it's pretty far upthread now, but I just have to point out the irony of this comment in this thread.
"Eight years ago and four years agao you told me I had to vote, and now you're telling me I have to vote AGAIN? Okay, but if I vote this time, you'll fix it all, right? And then I'll never have to vote again after that?"
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:46 AM on July 29, 2024 [5 favorites]
Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but this has been the claim for 8+ years now.
I know it's pretty far upthread now, but I just have to point out the irony of this comment in this thread.
"Eight years ago and four years agao you told me I had to vote, and now you're telling me I have to vote AGAIN? Okay, but if I vote this time, you'll fix it all, right? And then I'll never have to vote again after that?"
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:46 AM on July 29, 2024 [5 favorites]
Also said on the weekend:
Trump and Harris enter 99-day sprint to decide an election that has suddenly transformedg [AP]
Trump and Harris enter 99-day sprint to decide an election that has suddenly transformedg [AP]
Meanwhile, a frustrated Trump has abandoned the magnanimous tone he sought to project in the days after an assassin’s bullet nearly ended his life.posted by mazola at 7:33 AM on July 29, 2024 [1 favorite]
“They all say, ‘I think he’s changed. I think he’s changed since two weeks ago. Something affected him,’” Trump told a massive crowd Saturday night in Minnesota. “No, I haven’t changed. Maybe I’ve gotten worse, because I get angry at the incompetence that I witness every single day.”
Lol yeah that magnanimity was 100% a media projection.
posted by Artw at 7:39 AM on July 29, 2024 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:39 AM on July 29, 2024 [8 favorites]
He planned a fucking coup the last election, why does ANYONE doubt his intent at this point ?
And as many above have said the Trump2 administration is filled with those lusting after fascism.
Its stunning the the major politio-media cartel is STILL carrying his water after all these years.
I usually ask myself what would their response be if it was the Democratic leadership making these statements and plans. They'd be demanding the offender be shipped immediately to Guantanamo (slight sarcasm, slight).
posted by WatTylerJr at 11:15 AM on July 29, 2024 [4 favorites]
And as many above have said the Trump2 administration is filled with those lusting after fascism.
Its stunning the the major politio-media cartel is STILL carrying his water after all these years.
I usually ask myself what would their response be if it was the Democratic leadership making these statements and plans. They'd be demanding the offender be shipped immediately to Guantanamo (slight sarcasm, slight).
posted by WatTylerJr at 11:15 AM on July 29, 2024 [4 favorites]
He says a lot of bullshit. Even if he does mean there will be no more elections .. how would that even be achieved. I mean seriously, realistically , without devolving into liberal panic mode, how could this be done?
My useless take: Trump2 admin declares that we cannot have a 'divisive' national election when there is such a massive, nation threatening emergency on the border. Fox News et al (with help from the national media) will spend 4 years pumping sewage about this 'emergency' and when Trump2 declares the 2028 off, the Roberts Court ie.e, the gang of six, will go along - they just fucking declared the President can do anything he wants, and we'd depend on THEM to stand up to Trump2?.
If 2026 elections are even semi-normal, Trump2 will get shellacked, but that will only add momentum to their drive to end elections.
Throw in their beyond asinine 'war' on Mexico, oh excuse me the Mexican cartels, and the media gets what they love the most, another war.
* there is no emergency, we fucking owe the C. Americans who's lives and homes we've destroyed over 100 years and with climate change rendering it impossible for them to feed their families, well, we owe them a place here, not to mention it would be great for the US.
posted by WatTylerJr at 11:24 AM on July 29, 2024 [1 favorite]
My useless take: Trump2 admin declares that we cannot have a 'divisive' national election when there is such a massive, nation threatening emergency on the border. Fox News et al (with help from the national media) will spend 4 years pumping sewage about this 'emergency' and when Trump2 declares the 2028 off, the Roberts Court ie.e, the gang of six, will go along - they just fucking declared the President can do anything he wants, and we'd depend on THEM to stand up to Trump2?.
If 2026 elections are even semi-normal, Trump2 will get shellacked, but that will only add momentum to their drive to end elections.
Throw in their beyond asinine 'war' on Mexico, oh excuse me the Mexican cartels, and the media gets what they love the most, another war.
* there is no emergency, we fucking owe the C. Americans who's lives and homes we've destroyed over 100 years and with climate change rendering it impossible for them to feed their families, well, we owe them a place here, not to mention it would be great for the US.
posted by WatTylerJr at 11:24 AM on July 29, 2024 [1 favorite]
Video surprise - Capitol security tapes show fake GOP electors scheme
posted by Artw at 12:06 PM on July 29, 2024 [9 favorites]
posted by Artw at 12:06 PM on July 29, 2024 [9 favorites]
I was reading a post in the last politics thread where somebody was describing how much they hate Trump for destroying so many precious things, but it struck me that it is somewhat short-sighted to hate the man.
He is the apotheosis of long-simmering rage; removing the man would be no different from removing Hitler before the war – the temperature in the room was too damn hot at the time and had to be reckoned with one way or another.
Trump is like Slaanesh - pulled forth from the warp by the collective will of a people drowning in excess in their search for superstimulus, an elder god of chaos made manifest in the material universe by their psychic shriek to devour their souls for eternity.
Only the mechanism was audience capture. If it hadn’t been Trump, another would have claimed the mantle.
My predictions for humanity’s encounters with the Ruinous Powers:
2016 - Slaanesh: lord of Greed
2020 - Nurgle: lord of Pestilence
2024 - Khorne: lord of Blood
2028 - Tzeentch: lord of Change
posted by 1024 at 2:45 PM on July 29, 2024 [3 favorites]
He is the apotheosis of long-simmering rage; removing the man would be no different from removing Hitler before the war – the temperature in the room was too damn hot at the time and had to be reckoned with one way or another.
Trump is like Slaanesh - pulled forth from the warp by the collective will of a people drowning in excess in their search for superstimulus, an elder god of chaos made manifest in the material universe by their psychic shriek to devour their souls for eternity.
Only the mechanism was audience capture. If it hadn’t been Trump, another would have claimed the mantle.
My predictions for humanity’s encounters with the Ruinous Powers:
2016 - Slaanesh: lord of Greed
2020 - Nurgle: lord of Pestilence
2024 - Khorne: lord of Blood
2028 - Tzeentch: lord of Change
posted by 1024 at 2:45 PM on July 29, 2024 [3 favorites]
This is really mean to Slaanesh.
posted by Artw at 3:28 PM on July 29, 2024 [8 favorites]
posted by Artw at 3:28 PM on July 29, 2024 [8 favorites]
Donald Trump repeats controversial ‘You won’t have to vote any more’ claim: Republican presidential nominee denies threatening to stay in office after end of possible second term in Fox interview [The Guardian]
Ingraham pressed the former president, asking him, “But you will leave office after four years?”posted by mazola at 8:23 AM on July 30, 2024 [1 favorite]
Trump responded, “Of course.”
He added: “By the way … I did last time.”
Neither Ingraham nor Trump mentioned that – after Joe Biden won the 2020 presidential race – his supporters attacked the US Capitol on 6 January 2021 in an attempt to prevent Congress from certifying his electoral defeat.
Rachel Maddow had a take on this; she also added that Trump has told other groups that "you don't need to vote". Which is a weird thing for him to say during an election campaign.
Her theory is that it's about the 70 election administrators that are scattered throughout swing states and who are also Trump election conspiracists, and that the plan is for them to just refuse to certify a Harris win - leading to general chaos.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:07 AM on July 30, 2024 [5 favorites]
Her theory is that it's about the 70 election administrators that are scattered throughout swing states and who are also Trump election conspiracists, and that the plan is for them to just refuse to certify a Harris win - leading to general chaos.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:07 AM on July 30, 2024 [5 favorites]
It's possible. I think it's a stupid strategy but, hey, it's Trump. He has a very good shot to actually win so why would he try to sabotage what would be a surefire way to get into the White House for an extremely dicey bank shot that could end up with him in jail and/or... otherwise indisposed...
posted by Justinian at 12:05 PM on July 30, 2024
posted by Justinian at 12:05 PM on July 30, 2024
Trump Again Says That Christians ‘Won’t Have to Vote Anymore’ if They Vote for Him
The former president, in an interview on Fox News, declined to back away from his comments and repeated his argument that if he’s elected, “the country will be fixed” and their votes won’t be needed.
posted by Artw at 1:36 PM on July 30, 2024 [2 favorites]
The former president, in an interview on Fox News, declined to back away from his comments and repeated his argument that if he’s elected, “the country will be fixed” and their votes won’t be needed.
posted by Artw at 1:36 PM on July 30, 2024 [2 favorites]
Given Trump's phrasing, the specific audience, and the weird coded language employed by Evangelical Christians, is it possible he's referencing the rapture/ the end times?
Donald Trump: The End-Times President (Rolling Stone, Oct. 30, 2020) How fundamentalist Christians who believe in the apocalyptic myth of "the rapture" could be shaping Trump's agenda — and American life.
The Trump Revival (The Nation, April 15, 2024) To a growing contingent of right-wing evangelical Christians, Donald Trump isn’t just an aspiring two-term president. He’s an actual prophet.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:16 PM on July 30, 2024
Donald Trump: The End-Times President (Rolling Stone, Oct. 30, 2020) How fundamentalist Christians who believe in the apocalyptic myth of "the rapture" could be shaping Trump's agenda — and American life.
The Trump Revival (The Nation, April 15, 2024) To a growing contingent of right-wing evangelical Christians, Donald Trump isn’t just an aspiring two-term president. He’s an actual prophet.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:16 PM on July 30, 2024
To a growing contingent of right-wing evangelical Christians, Donald Trump isn’t just an aspiring two-term president. He’s an actual prophet.
Pfft, there have always been loons like this. In 1844 there was a Baptist Preacher named William Miller who proclaimed that by reading the Bible in a very specific way, he had been able to ascertain the exact date and time of Jesus' Second Coming; October 22nd of that year. He grew a big group of followers, they all went to a field in Pennsylvania somewhere to wait for Jesus' return, and nothing happened and everyone went home and calmed down for a while. They ditched the prophecy parts and made the Seventh-Day Adventists.
Also, five generations later on Miller's family tree you get ME. Being the descendant of a guy who predicted the end of the world five generations before you were even born tends to give you a dim view of prophets.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:24 PM on July 30, 2024 [10 favorites]
Pfft, there have always been loons like this. In 1844 there was a Baptist Preacher named William Miller who proclaimed that by reading the Bible in a very specific way, he had been able to ascertain the exact date and time of Jesus' Second Coming; October 22nd of that year. He grew a big group of followers, they all went to a field in Pennsylvania somewhere to wait for Jesus' return, and nothing happened and everyone went home and calmed down for a while. They ditched the prophecy parts and made the Seventh-Day Adventists.
Also, five generations later on Miller's family tree you get ME. Being the descendant of a guy who predicted the end of the world five generations before you were even born tends to give you a dim view of prophets.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:24 PM on July 30, 2024 [10 favorites]
Watch the Maddow segment above. Trump has been saying this to multiple different groups. Her take is that the placement of election deniers in positions whose job it is to certify the election in small counties will prevent certification of the vote statewide. Trump is saying he doesn't need the votes because in his world, the 2024 election will not depend on voting, it will not depend on voters going to the polls and election officials certifying the outcome of the vote. It will solely depend on disrupting the normal process of voting to finagle Trump into power.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:22 AM on July 31, 2024 [1 favorite]
posted by bluesky43 at 7:22 AM on July 31, 2024 [1 favorite]
I think it's big enough to deserve its own thread, except for the fact we've had just too many Trump/election threads recently.
An investigation into Trump receiving 10 million dollars from Egypt was quashed by Bill Barr.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:48 AM on August 3, 2024 [1 favorite]
An investigation into Trump receiving 10 million dollars from Egypt was quashed by Bill Barr.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:48 AM on August 3, 2024 [1 favorite]
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
(Trying to find a way to frame this for myself so I can sleep tonight)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:12 PM on July 26, 2024 [14 favorites]