Trees v methane
July 28, 2024 2:16 PM Subscribe
Microbes living in bark remove methane from the atmosphere, making forests more effective against climate collapse than previously thought (via). The forest monitoring plaform Global Forest Watch looks of interest too.
Although initially positive sounding since "methane has 28 times greater global warming potential than carbon dioxide and is 84 times more potent on a 20-year timescale", these results become darker once one considers high rate of deforestation. In this data, the rate of deforestation was slightly declining since 2016, seemingly due to accruing fire damage, but 2023 saw dramatic losses in Canada. Interestingly wildfires release arsenic too.
"Annual wildfires CO₂ emissions are 5 to 8 billion tonnes (fossil fuels are ~37 billion). Even though some of these fires are ignited by humans (either accidentally or intentionally), wildfire CO₂ emissions are not counted as anthropogenic because attribution is so difficult." Among those not ignited by humans, many should count as anthropogenic anyways, because humans create the conditions that worsens them.
Also, we understood that forests create the biotic pump effect which stabalizes precipitation, with droughts in Brazil being largely caused by rain forest loss. And indeed rainfall variability has increased considerably of course.
As short-term effects go, smoke contains black carbon, with a warming effect, and organic carbon, with a conjectured cooling effect, but recent work demonstrates a raming effect from organic carbon too. Aside from the soot debate, volcanos have seemingly cooled the earth during the 2023–24 global heating. Also no it's not the fucking sun. As a positive cliamte change should worsen flights.
Although initially positive sounding since "methane has 28 times greater global warming potential than carbon dioxide and is 84 times more potent on a 20-year timescale", these results become darker once one considers high rate of deforestation. In this data, the rate of deforestation was slightly declining since 2016, seemingly due to accruing fire damage, but 2023 saw dramatic losses in Canada. Interestingly wildfires release arsenic too.
"Annual wildfires CO₂ emissions are 5 to 8 billion tonnes (fossil fuels are ~37 billion). Even though some of these fires are ignited by humans (either accidentally or intentionally), wildfire CO₂ emissions are not counted as anthropogenic because attribution is so difficult." Among those not ignited by humans, many should count as anthropogenic anyways, because humans create the conditions that worsens them.
Also, we understood that forests create the biotic pump effect which stabalizes precipitation, with droughts in Brazil being largely caused by rain forest loss. And indeed rainfall variability has increased considerably of course.
As short-term effects go, smoke contains black carbon, with a warming effect, and organic carbon, with a conjectured cooling effect, but recent work demonstrates a raming effect from organic carbon too. Aside from the soot debate, volcanos have seemingly cooled the earth during the 2023–24 global heating. Also no it's not the fucking sun. As a positive cliamte change should worsen flights.
Don't forget that each of these new refineries and CO2 pipelines cuts down many acres of wetland forest to inject CO2 into idle oil fields
And cutting down the forests has been proposed as a climate solution...
posted by eustatic at 2:55 PM on July 28 [2 favorites]
And cutting down the forests has been proposed as a climate solution...
posted by eustatic at 2:55 PM on July 28 [2 favorites]
OK so... genetically modified cows with tree bark skin, when...?
posted by slater at 3:24 PM on July 28
posted by slater at 3:24 PM on July 28
>OK so... genetically modified cows with tree bark skin, when...?
I do feel like the future has us with enormous bio-powered air cleansing facilities similar to the water treatment plants that dot the creeks around Colorado that cleanup the water that has been polluted with heavy metals and will have to be run indefinitely.
posted by alex_skazat at 3:46 PM on July 28
I do feel like the future has us with enormous bio-powered air cleansing facilities similar to the water treatment plants that dot the creeks around Colorado that cleanup the water that has been polluted with heavy metals and will have to be run indefinitely.
posted by alex_skazat at 3:46 PM on July 28
Nice bark study, real field work, different climates, many species - too much climate research is met-analysis (but it does have its place).
Another aspect of the methane conundrum is widespread commercial forestry both into areas that never had trees (some areas have ancient carbon that tree planting causes to gasify), and with trees wirh high terpene levels (a group of natural volatiles) that significantly extend atmospheric methane life.
I've recently found a globally-distributed plant group that may help wetlands they are planted into emit less methane. The solutions exist but Capitalism kills them as it seeks profit over function. And much of the offsetting is fraud McKie et al 2015 Carbon Crime in the Voluntary Market, .pdf link Northumbria U.
Re arsenic release in wildfires - many trees hyperaccumulate metals (including toxic ones they don't need - often the tree cannot 'tell' the difference).
posted by unearthed at 4:47 PM on July 28 [1 favorite]
Another aspect of the methane conundrum is widespread commercial forestry both into areas that never had trees (some areas have ancient carbon that tree planting causes to gasify), and with trees wirh high terpene levels (a group of natural volatiles) that significantly extend atmospheric methane life.
I've recently found a globally-distributed plant group that may help wetlands they are planted into emit less methane. The solutions exist but Capitalism kills them as it seeks profit over function. And much of the offsetting is fraud McKie et al 2015 Carbon Crime in the Voluntary Market, .pdf link Northumbria U.
Re arsenic release in wildfires - many trees hyperaccumulate metals (including toxic ones they don't need - often the tree cannot 'tell' the difference).
posted by unearthed at 4:47 PM on July 28 [1 favorite]
s/raming/warming/
It's complicated whether soot heats or cools near term, but everyone thought organic brown carbon had a cooling effect,m until someone figured out its burnt slightly more or something, and so has a warming effect like the black carbon.
As an aside, I'd expect this says forest fires provide an even better model for nuclear winter than previously thought, aka self lofting rarely matters, aka nuclear winter is even more bullshit than its critics realized.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:34 PM on July 28
It's complicated whether soot heats or cools near term, but everyone thought organic brown carbon had a cooling effect,m until someone figured out its burnt slightly more or something, and so has a warming effect like the black carbon.
As an aside, I'd expect this says forest fires provide an even better model for nuclear winter than previously thought, aka self lofting rarely matters, aka nuclear winter is even more bullshit than its critics realized.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:34 PM on July 28
> OK so... genetically modified cows with tree bark skin, when...?
Impossible probably, but maybe these microbes could be adapted to pioneer plant species?
As for cattle farting their revenge..
Idea 1. Roundup Ready weeds
There exist many plants that're poisonous to cattle like milkweed, nightshades, hemlocks, foxglove, and jimsonweed, but cattle never eat these by themselves, because they taste bad. Yet, cattle do eat these weeds if collected into feed. Alfalfa is causing CAs water shortages, likely Roundup Ready Alfalfa.
If one wanted to save CA from water apocalypse, then one could genetically engineer Roundup Ready plants toxic to cattle, and have people distribute seeds into the roundup treated alfalfa fields. We surely understand Roundup Readiness well by now, making the genetic engineering part doable. It'd help Europe finally outlaw Roundup too, maybe even without the distribution phase.
Idea 2. Distribute BSE somehow
Any idea why cannibalistic tribes always live on islands like New Zeland? It's likely because humans who arrived there ate slow stupid island species into extinction, after which they'd no meat sources but other humans. It therefore maybe really important that your nation become vegeterain before its future agricultural collapse, maybe in the 2040s or 2050s for many.
I'd think the cattle industry could be seriously damaged if some cooking immune diseases like bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) could somehow become commonplace. As a bonus, all those potential cannibals learn that human meat maybe dangerous, long before they ever consider trying.
If you like, envision more cattle having woese BSE now as an investment for your retirement.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:46 PM on July 28
Impossible probably, but maybe these microbes could be adapted to pioneer plant species?
As for cattle farting their revenge..
Idea 1. Roundup Ready weeds
There exist many plants that're poisonous to cattle like milkweed, nightshades, hemlocks, foxglove, and jimsonweed, but cattle never eat these by themselves, because they taste bad. Yet, cattle do eat these weeds if collected into feed. Alfalfa is causing CAs water shortages, likely Roundup Ready Alfalfa.
If one wanted to save CA from water apocalypse, then one could genetically engineer Roundup Ready plants toxic to cattle, and have people distribute seeds into the roundup treated alfalfa fields. We surely understand Roundup Readiness well by now, making the genetic engineering part doable. It'd help Europe finally outlaw Roundup too, maybe even without the distribution phase.
Idea 2. Distribute BSE somehow
Any idea why cannibalistic tribes always live on islands like New Zeland? It's likely because humans who arrived there ate slow stupid island species into extinction, after which they'd no meat sources but other humans. It therefore maybe really important that your nation become vegeterain before its future agricultural collapse, maybe in the 2040s or 2050s for many.
I'd think the cattle industry could be seriously damaged if some cooking immune diseases like bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) could somehow become commonplace. As a bonus, all those potential cannibals learn that human meat maybe dangerous, long before they ever consider trying.
If you like, envision more cattle having woese BSE now as an investment for your retirement.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:46 PM on July 28
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