How One Man Lost $740,000 to Scammers Targeting His Retirement Savings
July 29, 2024 5:47 PM Subscribe
Mr. Heitin was one of many people interviewed by The New York Times who were ensnared in scams that could be so elaborate it’s as if they were created in a writer’s room testing different plot devices. Scammers can impersonate government officials, tech support staff or love interests. Tara Siegel Bernard for the New York Times.
This is an unbelievable story. My daughter sent it to me and I assured her that I would not be withdrawing money from my retirement account, using it to buy gold ingots, putting said ingots into a paperback and handing them over to a rando guy in a car. nope, not to worry daughter.
posted by bluesky43 at 6:16 PM on July 29 [15 favorites]
posted by bluesky43 at 6:16 PM on July 29 [15 favorites]
Funny how this story is nearly identical to this story from earlier this year. As with that story, the money (gold, in this case) is whisked away through the window of a passing car. It’s one thing to run a scam from overseas through crypto/bank transfers, but they’ve got bagmen in the US that nobody can ever seem to find? Weird.
posted by dr_dank at 6:22 PM on July 29 [12 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 6:22 PM on July 29 [12 favorites]
I don’t watch horror movies, I read stories like this. I hope a lot of exposure to stories about scams acts as a kind of inoculation. It’s very easy to see all the warning signs and absurdity from the outside but it’s hubris to believe that there isn’t a scam out there that could get over on you.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:33 PM on July 29 [32 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:33 PM on July 29 [32 favorites]
Once again cynicism and mistrust wins the day. I remember reading some study that concluded that cynicism was a coping mechanism of the less skilled. Yeah, well, I'd rather be "less skilled" than being scammed into handing bags full of gold ingots to "federal agents" or a shoebox full of $50,000 to the "CIA" because of an unshakeable, unquestioning trust in The System. Your first instinct should always be, "This is probably a scam."
posted by star gentle uterus at 6:39 PM on July 29 [11 favorites]
posted by star gentle uterus at 6:39 PM on July 29 [11 favorites]
glad to see the article mentioned the casualty loss deduction was eliminated by the GOP as part of their 2017 tax cut package. It's coming back in 2026 (due to all the sunsetting) apparently. The Casualty and Theft Loss Deduction
Reading that, it seems that we need H.R.6938 - Tax Relief for Victims of Crimes, Scams, and Disasters Act, introduced by Rankin (D) this year, for these kinds of losses to be deductible.
posted by torokunai at 6:43 PM on July 29 [16 favorites]
Reading that, it seems that we need H.R.6938 - Tax Relief for Victims of Crimes, Scams, and Disasters Act, introduced by Rankin (D) this year, for these kinds of losses to be deductible.
posted by torokunai at 6:43 PM on July 29 [16 favorites]
There is record of a lot of tiny donations to ActBlue in this victim's name. $1, $2, $5. Pretty weird, I guess they have micro-donation links you can click or something.
posted by torokunai at 6:47 PM on July 29
posted by torokunai at 6:47 PM on July 29
oh they have me until the part about a federal locker.
posted by clavdivs at 6:50 PM on July 29 [2 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 6:50 PM on July 29 [2 favorites]
Yeah, there are times where it is mildly terrifying to think about how _little_ needs to be fucked with on one's computer to make an impersonation attack easy. Oh, just change the target's DNS settings so that major banking sites redirect to something an attacker controls? Reasonable facsimiles of web sites are pretty straight forward, doubly so if you know the route the victim is likely to take - "what's Fidelity's contact number? *click click click*" and now the victim has the attacker's phone number, congratulations, they've found their way in. Add in any amount of malware that can mess around with web sites real time and some of those attacks become even easier.
I'm not sure I'd go to the trouble of digging up last quarter's printed statement to call my financial provider. Hell, I probably wouldn't go to the trouble of cross checking sites on my computer with sites on my phone, either.
I might think ahead enough to use their app on my phone, though, but even then I wouldn't be surprised if there are attacks that can take over your phone's dialer in the name of remote PBX-like functionality.
posted by Kyol at 6:58 PM on July 29 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure I'd go to the trouble of digging up last quarter's printed statement to call my financial provider. Hell, I probably wouldn't go to the trouble of cross checking sites on my computer with sites on my phone, either.
I might think ahead enough to use their app on my phone, though, but even then I wouldn't be surprised if there are attacks that can take over your phone's dialer in the name of remote PBX-like functionality.
posted by Kyol at 6:58 PM on July 29 [4 favorites]
It's awful how often "but I googled" came up in this article. My stepfather, in what turned out to be early stages of dementia, not once but twice turned over control of his computer to a bad actor at the other end of the first link that showed up on an ordinary search for computer repair advice. Thankfully it only cost him a total of $600ish in "fees" to the scam company, and he figured out pretty quickly that he'd made a mistake both times when the person on the other line got overly aggressive and demanding. In reading this, I realize it could have been much worse.
posted by Sweetie Darling at 7:08 PM on July 29 [12 favorites]
posted by Sweetie Darling at 7:08 PM on July 29 [12 favorites]
but they’ve got bagmen in the US that nobody can ever seem to find? Weird.
The drivers are most likely people who were scammed by work-from-home ads who have graduated one level up from receiving/reshipping packages [of, unknowingly, items bought with stolen credit cards] and who might not even end up getting paid for any of it.
(This Krebs on Security article, for instance, reports "In reality, the crooks in charge almost always stop communicating with drops just before the first payday, usually about a month after the drop ships their first package.")
posted by nobody at 7:13 PM on July 29 [12 favorites]
The drivers are most likely people who were scammed by work-from-home ads who have graduated one level up from receiving/reshipping packages [of, unknowingly, items bought with stolen credit cards] and who might not even end up getting paid for any of it.
(This Krebs on Security article, for instance, reports "In reality, the crooks in charge almost always stop communicating with drops just before the first payday, usually about a month after the drop ships their first package.")
posted by nobody at 7:13 PM on July 29 [12 favorites]
I wrote about my experience with a scammer in a DailyKos blog entry. It was my most successful post ever.
Short version: after watching scam bait videos on YT, and fielding a few scam calls, I was prepared for this one.
posted by Repack Rider at 7:29 PM on July 29 [11 favorites]
Short version: after watching scam bait videos on YT, and fielding a few scam calls, I was prepared for this one.
posted by Repack Rider at 7:29 PM on July 29 [11 favorites]
The boomer wealth is gradually draining away.
Or quickly! And who will be taking care of them when they give all their money away? Apparently, we will! My boomer mom will be hoarding her wealth until she kicks it and then passing over me (Gen-X) to give it to her favorite son (Millennial). So appropriate. My boomer MIL got divorced very late in life and then proceeded, in her shambles over the divorce and no longer under the watchful eye of anyone, gave away all the retirement savings that she had to internet "boyfriend" scammers. She's now barely making ends meet with what little cash she has left, her social security, and her spouses pension which she was entitled to in the divorce. There's no pension waiting for us, just what we've socked away in various 401(k) through several economic downturns and multiple layoffs over the years. The boomers in our life have put a total of $150 in my kid's 529 account. We are supposed to self-fund retirement, pay off student loan debt, put a kid through college AND help MIL make ends meet after she sent tens of thousands of dollars away? We are already giving her money because the bulk of her monthly money goes to the retirement home she is in. As it steps up in care...we will not be able to help without hurting ourselves and our propspects. This is happening large and small all over the country and nobody seems to be doing a damn thing about it. Why?
posted by amanda at 8:14 PM on July 29 [19 favorites]
Or quickly! And who will be taking care of them when they give all their money away? Apparently, we will! My boomer mom will be hoarding her wealth until she kicks it and then passing over me (Gen-X) to give it to her favorite son (Millennial). So appropriate. My boomer MIL got divorced very late in life and then proceeded, in her shambles over the divorce and no longer under the watchful eye of anyone, gave away all the retirement savings that she had to internet "boyfriend" scammers. She's now barely making ends meet with what little cash she has left, her social security, and her spouses pension which she was entitled to in the divorce. There's no pension waiting for us, just what we've socked away in various 401(k) through several economic downturns and multiple layoffs over the years. The boomers in our life have put a total of $150 in my kid's 529 account. We are supposed to self-fund retirement, pay off student loan debt, put a kid through college AND help MIL make ends meet after she sent tens of thousands of dollars away? We are already giving her money because the bulk of her monthly money goes to the retirement home she is in. As it steps up in care...we will not be able to help without hurting ourselves and our propspects. This is happening large and small all over the country and nobody seems to be doing a damn thing about it. Why?
posted by amanda at 8:14 PM on July 29 [19 favorites]
I've said this before, but please send this to all your relatives and post to social media. They will want to shut you down, "I would never fall for such things!" but remind them that these scammers make their professional living from figuring out how to get your money and once they've got you, it can be incredibly difficult to untangle yourself. Then tell them, "Oh, I know you would never fall for it, but I want you to know this stuff so that you can be helpful to your friends at church or at rotary club or anywhere to know how to spot this stuff and help them avoid it!"
posted by amanda at 8:17 PM on July 29 [33 favorites]
posted by amanda at 8:17 PM on July 29 [33 favorites]
We are all drowning in a bottomless pool of grift and organized crime because the internet broke the ice.
posted by CynicalKnight at 9:14 PM on July 29 [10 favorites]
posted by CynicalKnight at 9:14 PM on July 29 [10 favorites]
We are supposed to self-fund retirement, pay off student loan debt, put a kid through college AND help MIL make ends meet after she sent tens of thousands of dollars away?
I mean, this is what professional money people will go on about at length, but it's not possible
posted by lescour at 9:18 PM on July 29 [1 favorite]
I mean, this is what professional money people will go on about at length, but it's not possible
posted by lescour at 9:18 PM on July 29 [1 favorite]
This man’s isolation made him the perfect target.
I wonder if the decline of churches is helping this along, not in the sense of morality but in the sense of elderly people not having a default community to belong to. Perhaps it’s time for something new, the Sunday morning social club or something to that effect.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:30 PM on July 29 [9 favorites]
I wonder if the decline of churches is helping this along, not in the sense of morality but in the sense of elderly people not having a default community to belong to. Perhaps it’s time for something new, the Sunday morning social club or something to that effect.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:30 PM on July 29 [9 favorites]
I wonder if the decline of churches is helping this along, not in the sense of morality but in the sense of elderly people not having a default community to belong to. Perhaps it’s time for something new, the Sunday morning social club or something to that effect.
Churches are a con in themselves. They sell promises that cost them nothing and that they don't have to keep.
Some con artists target churches. Members tend to trust each other, and they are accustomed to accepting authority.
It's no coincidence that the Latter Day Saints were created by a con artist.
posted by Repack Rider at 10:03 PM on July 29 [18 favorites]
Churches are a con in themselves. They sell promises that cost them nothing and that they don't have to keep.
Some con artists target churches. Members tend to trust each other, and they are accustomed to accepting authority.
It's no coincidence that the Latter Day Saints were created by a con artist.
posted by Repack Rider at 10:03 PM on July 29 [18 favorites]
There are so many obvious red flags in that story that it's hard to imagine how anyone with their wits about them could fall for these scams, but they do so daily. I want to think it would never happen to me. Still, I guess the scam trade is just a numbers game and the cost to make the first contact is so low but the possible rewards are so high that it's easy to send out hundreds to millions of first contacts in different ways and there will always be someone that is triggered to fall for the trap and that could well be me. I don't think so, but most people who get scammed are otherwise intelligent people. Anyone who thinks they could never ever possibly be caught out is kidding themselves.
What bothered me the most is these cases always include a bunch of red flags that should have been picked up by financial and similar institutions but aren't. Yes, you have a right to do what you want with your money and banks etc don't have a right to restrict what you spend your money on or who you give it to. However individuals do not have the resources to identify scams one by one and everyone dealing with other people's money knows scams are a daily occurrence so should be able to literally show red flags for exactly the sort of transactions that are involved. But they often don't. To be fair, most of these stories that go on beyond one or two transactions include at least one such red flag being pointed out to the victim, who either ignores it or actively finds a way to work around it.
I agree that isolation often seems to play a part in the success of scams. A person with a network of friends may be more likely to have a close confidante or at least be more aware of these sorts of things happening to 'other people' from trusted sources. I feel like almost every case I see includes at least some degree of social or physical isolation as a factor.
The boomer wealth is gradually draining away.
Or quickly! And who will be taking care of them when they give all their money away? Apparently, we will!
Even though most of my kids refuse to give the slightest thought to saving for retirement or even acknowledging they will need that, I'm very glad that the Australian Government, for all its failings, has maintained and continues to increase mandatory superannuation payments by every employer (currently 11% of gross earnings). My wife and I (on the cusp of boomer and gen-x) are part of the last generation here without universally having mandatory employer-paid retirement savings that will sustain them as they age, because this system started in the last half of our working lives and none of us saved anything before then.
What does this have to do with scams? Well, it's pretty hard to get any money out of your superannuation account until you retire, so at least younger people are protected from the worst of their gullibility. But it focuses the targets of scammers on people over 60 not only because they're more likely to have savings, but anyone living here who is retired potentially has ready access to large sums of money and it's normal for them to make large withdrawals for them to eg pay off their home loan or take a world cruise or whatever it is retired people do. So there's a large demographic here that has everything a scammer wants - access to money, often unfamiliarity with technology and its risks and a high degree of trust in authority figures. The victim in this story fits that profile exactly, as do so very many we see on the 'current affairs' shows on TV at least once a week.
posted by dg at 10:08 PM on July 29 [4 favorites]
What bothered me the most is these cases always include a bunch of red flags that should have been picked up by financial and similar institutions but aren't. Yes, you have a right to do what you want with your money and banks etc don't have a right to restrict what you spend your money on or who you give it to. However individuals do not have the resources to identify scams one by one and everyone dealing with other people's money knows scams are a daily occurrence so should be able to literally show red flags for exactly the sort of transactions that are involved. But they often don't. To be fair, most of these stories that go on beyond one or two transactions include at least one such red flag being pointed out to the victim, who either ignores it or actively finds a way to work around it.
I agree that isolation often seems to play a part in the success of scams. A person with a network of friends may be more likely to have a close confidante or at least be more aware of these sorts of things happening to 'other people' from trusted sources. I feel like almost every case I see includes at least some degree of social or physical isolation as a factor.
The boomer wealth is gradually draining away.
Or quickly! And who will be taking care of them when they give all their money away? Apparently, we will!
Even though most of my kids refuse to give the slightest thought to saving for retirement or even acknowledging they will need that, I'm very glad that the Australian Government, for all its failings, has maintained and continues to increase mandatory superannuation payments by every employer (currently 11% of gross earnings). My wife and I (on the cusp of boomer and gen-x) are part of the last generation here without universally having mandatory employer-paid retirement savings that will sustain them as they age, because this system started in the last half of our working lives and none of us saved anything before then.
What does this have to do with scams? Well, it's pretty hard to get any money out of your superannuation account until you retire, so at least younger people are protected from the worst of their gullibility. But it focuses the targets of scammers on people over 60 not only because they're more likely to have savings, but anyone living here who is retired potentially has ready access to large sums of money and it's normal for them to make large withdrawals for them to eg pay off their home loan or take a world cruise or whatever it is retired people do. So there's a large demographic here that has everything a scammer wants - access to money, often unfamiliarity with technology and its risks and a high degree of trust in authority figures. The victim in this story fits that profile exactly, as do so very many we see on the 'current affairs' shows on TV at least once a week.
posted by dg at 10:08 PM on July 29 [4 favorites]
“My dad was set up for a very comfortable retirement and he is just not anymore,” said Liana Loewus, Mr. Heitin’s daughter. “One of the most difficult parts of the aftermath of a scam like this is that it feels like no one cares.”
This, honestly, is the vital thing to remember. If you really are the victim of financial fraud, there’s not going to be some network of bankers and FBI agents calling you every day. There’s not going to be any urgency on your bank’s part. There’s not going to be any sting operations or shenanigans with cash, gold or bitcoin. There’s going to be a boring, rote bureaucratic process that hopefully gets you access to your money relatively quickly.
At no point will this process be moving at a speed where it would be hampered by you insisting on calling back the bank at a trusted line or pausing to consult a trusted friend or relative.
posted by smelendez at 11:23 PM on July 29 [9 favorites]
This, honestly, is the vital thing to remember. If you really are the victim of financial fraud, there’s not going to be some network of bankers and FBI agents calling you every day. There’s not going to be any urgency on your bank’s part. There’s not going to be any sting operations or shenanigans with cash, gold or bitcoin. There’s going to be a boring, rote bureaucratic process that hopefully gets you access to your money relatively quickly.
At no point will this process be moving at a speed where it would be hampered by you insisting on calling back the bank at a trusted line or pausing to consult a trusted friend or relative.
posted by smelendez at 11:23 PM on July 29 [9 favorites]
Very true, smelendez, except that the process may also involve all your assets being frozen for a period of time while the authorities figure out who they really belong to. I think that's a really good message to preach to everyone you can - if it's urgent, it's most likely a scam!
posted by dg at 11:39 PM on July 29 [8 favorites]
posted by dg at 11:39 PM on July 29 [8 favorites]
"We are all drowning in a bottomless pool of grift and organized crime because the internet broke the ice."
reminds me of my favorite phrase from the past 20 years, "disruptive business model"
posted by cybrcamper at 3:38 AM on July 30 [3 favorites]
reminds me of my favorite phrase from the past 20 years, "disruptive business model"
posted by cybrcamper at 3:38 AM on July 30 [3 favorites]
if it's urgent, it's most likely a scam!
This. Instilling a sense of urgency and fear - telling you that there's a ticking time bomb - is how scammers get you to ignore (or just not see) all the red flags.
posted by entropone at 4:11 AM on July 30 [7 favorites]
This. Instilling a sense of urgency and fear - telling you that there's a ticking time bomb - is how scammers get you to ignore (or just not see) all the red flags.
posted by entropone at 4:11 AM on July 30 [7 favorites]
Last week I asked one of the building maintenance guys if they knew what was up with one of my neighbors who I hadn't seen all month. He was a marine corp vet in a mobility scooter whose wife died of cancer earlier this year and I used to see him regularly in the lobby in the very early hours of the morning or out scooting around the neighborhood while I was running.
It turns out he got catfished out of all of his savings and is to this day still sending his pension money to his catfisher. He was evicted after falling behind on his rent by $20K and is now in a homeless shelter. I talked to a couple of his friends and they have all tried talking him out of it but he absolutely insists he is not being catfished and they are all kind of astounded by it. One even said that if anything they expected that he would be the scammer not the scammed in this kind of story.
The worst part is that catfishing all started in a VA hospital waiting room so the scammers are actively targeting vulnerable lonely and sick older veterans for their pensions.
posted by srboisvert at 5:06 AM on July 30 [10 favorites]
It turns out he got catfished out of all of his savings and is to this day still sending his pension money to his catfisher. He was evicted after falling behind on his rent by $20K and is now in a homeless shelter. I talked to a couple of his friends and they have all tried talking him out of it but he absolutely insists he is not being catfished and they are all kind of astounded by it. One even said that if anything they expected that he would be the scammer not the scammed in this kind of story.
The worst part is that catfishing all started in a VA hospital waiting room so the scammers are actively targeting vulnerable lonely and sick older veterans for their pensions.
posted by srboisvert at 5:06 AM on July 30 [10 favorites]
It's sad how many times he ran headfirst into institutional safeguards but wasn't able to take a moment to stop and contemplate what was going on: his longtime investment advisor, the bank, the gold dealer. Lots of people tried to intervene, but the scammers ensured that it was nearly impossible to intervene. It's not like red flags weren't raised all over the place, but the scammers so good at distorting reality that none of it mattered and at the end of the day the guy had the right to access his money no matter how sketchy the people around him thought his behavior was.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:26 AM on July 30 [5 favorites]
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:26 AM on July 30 [5 favorites]
The article did not go into detail about how the scammers initially managed to obtain the victim's login credentials for his 401(k), as he is still in the process of trying to work with his financial institutions to see what, if anything, can be done. In the comments, the reporter answers a question about this, saying it was most likely that the victim clicked on a sponsored link or ad instead of the link for the real website; or clicked on a link in a scam email that appeared legit.
I am in my middle 50s, and SO hyper-attuned to attacks like these that I feel like the precautions I have learned to take are mostly going to work. (Can't say 100 percent, because anyone can do something careless just once, and that could be all it takes.)
But things keep changing fast. Internet search results, for example, are more and more difficult to wade through, to get past all the goddamn ads and sponsored links. Will fake emails become more convincing? Will email even continue to be a thing, or will that get supplanted by something else?
In other words, as I continue to to get older and older, these technical things will change faster and faster and am I really that confident that I will manage to stay ahead of such shenanigans? Honestly, I don't know.
But ultimately, it wasn't the technical hack that did the most damage; it was the social engineering. I can only hope that my bullshit detector and red-flag-early-warning systems remain robust as I get on in years! Those things do not rely on technical savvy, and do not require much in the way of software updates.
posted by fikri at 6:36 AM on July 30 [13 favorites]
I am in my middle 50s, and SO hyper-attuned to attacks like these that I feel like the precautions I have learned to take are mostly going to work. (Can't say 100 percent, because anyone can do something careless just once, and that could be all it takes.)
But things keep changing fast. Internet search results, for example, are more and more difficult to wade through, to get past all the goddamn ads and sponsored links. Will fake emails become more convincing? Will email even continue to be a thing, or will that get supplanted by something else?
In other words, as I continue to to get older and older, these technical things will change faster and faster and am I really that confident that I will manage to stay ahead of such shenanigans? Honestly, I don't know.
But ultimately, it wasn't the technical hack that did the most damage; it was the social engineering. I can only hope that my bullshit detector and red-flag-early-warning systems remain robust as I get on in years! Those things do not rely on technical savvy, and do not require much in the way of software updates.
posted by fikri at 6:36 AM on July 30 [13 favorites]
Something similar happened to my dad recently, and the way he first reported what was going on made me so frustrated to realize that he didn't understand what was really happening, and furious at the scammers who were trying to take advantage of him. No, dad, somebody from bank A isn't going to also be working with someone from bank B and put you on a conference call with both of them. The worst part is that my dad was legitimately dealing with both banks, updating accounts after my mom died.
He reported it all so matter-of-factly to me, about how the bank representatives sounded like they were in some far away call center. Luckily, he took my advice and called both banks directly himself to explain the situation, and he didn't appear to be out any money after all.
posted by emelenjr at 7:21 AM on July 30 [9 favorites]
He reported it all so matter-of-factly to me, about how the bank representatives sounded like they were in some far away call center. Luckily, he took my advice and called both banks directly himself to explain the situation, and he didn't appear to be out any money after all.
posted by emelenjr at 7:21 AM on July 30 [9 favorites]
What bothered me the most is these cases always include a bunch of red flags that should have been picked up by financial and similar institutions but aren't.
According to the article they actually did. Several of his banks and his financial adviser repeatedly raised red flags to him, including trying to stop him from withdrawing his money. Even the gold dealer he worked with told him he was probably being scammed. Unfortunately, the scammers anticipated this and coached him on how to get around these restrictions while planting doubt in his mind that these institutions and people were actually part of the conspiracy to steal from him.
Ultimately no one's going to be able to save the victims from themselves if they want to believe.
posted by star gentle uterus at 8:25 AM on July 30 [4 favorites]
According to the article they actually did. Several of his banks and his financial adviser repeatedly raised red flags to him, including trying to stop him from withdrawing his money. Even the gold dealer he worked with told him he was probably being scammed. Unfortunately, the scammers anticipated this and coached him on how to get around these restrictions while planting doubt in his mind that these institutions and people were actually part of the conspiracy to steal from him.
Ultimately no one's going to be able to save the victims from themselves if they want to believe.
posted by star gentle uterus at 8:25 AM on July 30 [4 favorites]
Even little scams will take in people who should know better but are desperate. K got bilked for $1000 in first+last for an apartment in Toronto though an online ad using just really fucking improbable pictures of what you'd get for $500 a month. There was no in-person viewing, not even an address to distrust, just high pressure "loads of people are interested, but I think you're the best tenant, you're disabled, i want to help you, you better put your deposit in now." Despite K's bank being all "absolutely do not transfer money to this account, are you serious, this is a scam" K pushed through the bank's phone system to force the transfer and, of course, never heard another peep.
I'm generally peacable but people who prey on disabled folks should feel some pain.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:47 AM on July 30 [3 favorites]
I'm generally peacable but people who prey on disabled folks should feel some pain.
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:47 AM on July 30 [3 favorites]
I'm strongly anti-capital punishment, but would make an exception for scammers. If Harris came out tomorrow with a strong, I will stop the scammers and the phone companies will too, she'd likely get 90% of the vote.
The phone system is basically unusable now because of these fuckers (hey, lets just give over the most important communications system ever built to sleaze ball thieves and not do fuckall about it - its like say lets give up on banking cause there are some robberies that happen).
And the internet is going that way too. If the AI bullshit is actually not a total boondoggle, it will be primarily used, successfully, by scammers thieves.
A question that occurs (maybe someone here can answer). If the atrocious phone companies can identify incoming scam calls to you, why can't they just block them...
Hmmmm, my guess is $$$$$$$$$
posted by WatTylerJr at 9:14 AM on July 30 [6 favorites]
The phone system is basically unusable now because of these fuckers (hey, lets just give over the most important communications system ever built to sleaze ball thieves and not do fuckall about it - its like say lets give up on banking cause there are some robberies that happen).
And the internet is going that way too. If the AI bullshit is actually not a total boondoggle, it will be primarily used, successfully, by scammers thieves.
A question that occurs (maybe someone here can answer). If the atrocious phone companies can identify incoming scam calls to you, why can't they just block them...
Hmmmm, my guess is $$$$$$$$$
posted by WatTylerJr at 9:14 AM on July 30 [6 favorites]
Scams keep morphing, always one step ahead of what any of us know. I'd love to see some sort of tracking site that updates regularly with the stories and modus operandi that tell us all what to look for this week.
The BBB has a start. But with the internet being as enshittified as it is, and the purpose of any site is only to sell themselves to a bigger company for the payday - it would have to be nonprofit at least, or govt-run (FTC). Yay, capitalism.
posted by Dashy at 9:54 AM on July 30 [1 favorite]
The BBB has a start. But with the internet being as enshittified as it is, and the purpose of any site is only to sell themselves to a bigger company for the payday - it would have to be nonprofit at least, or govt-run (FTC). Yay, capitalism.
posted by Dashy at 9:54 AM on July 30 [1 favorite]
If the atrocious phone companies can identify incoming scam calls to you, why can't they just block them...
The damn phone companies and banks are some of the biggest scammers of them all! Remember when we broke up the AT&T? How long did that last? And the bank bailouts? That was scamming on the grand scale. It's all about the money, baby.
This society is so fucked.
Not only am I such as suspicious antisocial wench that I don't bother to accept calls from ANY unknown number, but I also don't have an extra dime to give scammers, and I don't believe anybody that says they can help me get ahead, because IMO this system is so broke there isn't an individual or institution that doesn't give a damn about anything but profit. What I can hopefully look forward to is a massive aneurism that takes me instantly. Otherwise, I'll succumb to the final scams that are elder care and health care.
most of my kids refuse to give the slightest thought to saving for retirement or even acknowledging they will need that
Well, to be honest, two out of the four are giving more thought on how to stretch their income to be able to afford rent, food, car payments on their shitty cars, and gods-damn health care. The other two are getting by, and they just hope that they are going to be able to get by in the future.
posted by BlueHorse at 11:14 AM on July 30 [3 favorites]
The damn phone companies and banks are some of the biggest scammers of them all! Remember when we broke up the AT&T? How long did that last? And the bank bailouts? That was scamming on the grand scale. It's all about the money, baby.
This society is so fucked.
Not only am I such as suspicious antisocial wench that I don't bother to accept calls from ANY unknown number, but I also don't have an extra dime to give scammers, and I don't believe anybody that says they can help me get ahead, because IMO this system is so broke there isn't an individual or institution that doesn't give a damn about anything but profit. What I can hopefully look forward to is a massive aneurism that takes me instantly. Otherwise, I'll succumb to the final scams that are elder care and health care.
most of my kids refuse to give the slightest thought to saving for retirement or even acknowledging they will need that
Well, to be honest, two out of the four are giving more thought on how to stretch their income to be able to afford rent, food, car payments on their shitty cars, and gods-damn health care. The other two are getting by, and they just hope that they are going to be able to get by in the future.
posted by BlueHorse at 11:14 AM on July 30 [3 favorites]
I got an email once that was spoofed from my own email account
“Hey Pervert. We know what you’ve been up to. And we have all your files. We will release them tomorrow if you don’t send $10,000.”
Pervert!? My files!!
I felt so seen.
And they backed up my files too?!
What internet kindness is this.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:16 AM on July 30 [14 favorites]
“Hey Pervert. We know what you’ve been up to. And we have all your files. We will release them tomorrow if you don’t send $10,000.”
Pervert!? My files!!
I felt so seen.
And they backed up my files too?!
What internet kindness is this.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:16 AM on July 30 [14 favorites]
worst part is that catfishing all started in a VA hospital waiting room so the scammers are actively targeting vulnerable lonely and sick older veterans for their pensions.
I know a veteran in meatspace who got bilked out of 140k like this. Romance frauds are really big with that set. They want to be the big man: usually it’s “helping a single mother” or something, but it’s scams all the way down.
posted by corb at 11:37 AM on July 30
I know a veteran in meatspace who got bilked out of 140k like this. Romance frauds are really big with that set. They want to be the big man: usually it’s “helping a single mother” or something, but it’s scams all the way down.
posted by corb at 11:37 AM on July 30
I've got a slightly different scam I need to resolve at some point: someone Zelled me $950 "by mistake" in like five separate transactions to a checking account I no longer use. And wants me to refund them directly, rather than reverse the charges. They even had someone with a number off by one text me asking for money back. I'm pretty sure this is fraudulent somehow and am waiting for the banking system to reverse all these charges but maybe I should give the bank a call to report a suspicious extra thousand dollars.
posted by pwnguin at 11:45 AM on July 30 [4 favorites]
posted by pwnguin at 11:45 AM on July 30 [4 favorites]
I'm pretty sure this is fraudulent somehow and am waiting for the banking system to reverse all these charges but maybe I should give the bank a call to report a suspicious extra thousand dollars.
Is this a situation where the transaction hasn't cleared yet with your bank, so they're hoping you'll send them $950 as a "refund" then when the transaction into your account doesn't clear, you're out $950? I don't use Zelle but I'm pretty sure this sort of scam isn't anything new. But yeah I'd call the bank and they probably know exactly what's up because they see it all the time.
posted by axiom at 11:55 AM on July 30 [4 favorites]
Is this a situation where the transaction hasn't cleared yet with your bank, so they're hoping you'll send them $950 as a "refund" then when the transaction into your account doesn't clear, you're out $950? I don't use Zelle but I'm pretty sure this sort of scam isn't anything new. But yeah I'd call the bank and they probably know exactly what's up because they see it all the time.
posted by axiom at 11:55 AM on July 30 [4 favorites]
Well, it's been there for a few months now, but I assume the funds are some kind of fraudulent, and will be reversed upon discovery, because banks reason about deposits more like shifts in probability distributions than binary "cleared" states.
posted by pwnguin at 12:04 PM on July 30 [1 favorite]
posted by pwnguin at 12:04 PM on July 30 [1 favorite]
...please send this to all your relatives and post to social media.Not quite this but the AARP has a weekly podcast, The Perfect Scam, that has been running since 2018. It's cohosted by Frank Abagnale.
...I'd love to see some sort of tracking site that updates regularly with the stories and modus operandi that tell us all what to look for this week.
Each episode covers a specific scam -- several episodes for larger scams -- including interviews with victims, FBI, private investigators, reformed criminals etc. The scams are wide-ranging: romance, psychics, identity theft, Ponzi schemes, grandchild in jail and... just like this instance... fake officials. Indeed the most recent episode is "A call from the “Social Security Administration” leaves Lori rattled and rushing to convert her savings into gold bars.".
posted by NailsTheCat at 1:20 PM on July 30 [4 favorites]
I remember back in the mid 2000s reading an academic study of the so-called 'Nigerian Prince' scams, that said the prime targets were actually people who thought they could out-wit the scammers. The emails were purposefully ridiculous because they were baiting people who would reply out of hubris and then get caught up in a one-upmanship game with the scammer. The arrogant cynic was their target, not the naive or stupid. And of course in the long run the scammers always won.
All of which is to say: if you think you would never fall for this kind of thing, then you are their target.
posted by EllaEm at 1:58 PM on July 30 [3 favorites]
All of which is to say: if you think you would never fall for this kind of thing, then you are their target.
posted by EllaEm at 1:58 PM on July 30 [3 favorites]
I remember back in the mid 2000s reading an academic study of the so-called 'Nigerian Prince' scams
Cormac Herley is a favorite scholar of mine, and the author of Why do Nigerian Scammers Say They are from Nigeria? But I don't think you got it exactly right -- the reason these scammers use repeated bad lies is to cheaply screen out people who won't be scammed:
This is classic screening theory, but doesn't say much about "hubris." It's not a question of Dunning-Kruger effects (which are under doubt anyways).
My suspicion is that much of this industry is fueled by Alzheimers, dementia, and other mental illnesses among the pensioner class. I figure people are scared that admitting they fell for the scam means being "sent to a home" or other institution. And the kids aren't about to say anything about their parent to NYT reporters while there's a chance the money might come back. Can't say whether the individual profiled here fits the profile though.
posted by pwnguin at 2:25 PM on July 30 [5 favorites]
Cormac Herley is a favorite scholar of mine, and the author of Why do Nigerian Scammers Say They are from Nigeria? But I don't think you got it exactly right -- the reason these scammers use repeated bad lies is to cheaply screen out people who won't be scammed:
By sending an email that repels all but the most gullible, the scammer gets the most promising marks to self-select, and tilts the true to false positive ratio in his favor.
This is classic screening theory, but doesn't say much about "hubris." It's not a question of Dunning-Kruger effects (which are under doubt anyways).
My suspicion is that much of this industry is fueled by Alzheimers, dementia, and other mental illnesses among the pensioner class. I figure people are scared that admitting they fell for the scam means being "sent to a home" or other institution. And the kids aren't about to say anything about their parent to NYT reporters while there's a chance the money might come back. Can't say whether the individual profiled here fits the profile though.
posted by pwnguin at 2:25 PM on July 30 [5 favorites]
If the atrocious phone companies can identify incoming scam calls to you, why can't they just block them...
They can; they just charge you extra for it. The anti-scam scam, as it were. For example
posted by TedW at 2:31 PM on July 30 [2 favorites]
They can; they just charge you extra for it. The anti-scam scam, as it were. For example
posted by TedW at 2:31 PM on July 30 [2 favorites]
Between its massive ecological mining footprint and its use in scamming vulnerable people it's clear that gold is a menace to society and should be banned.
posted by neonamber at 9:02 PM on July 30
posted by neonamber at 9:02 PM on July 30
I remember back in the mid 2000s reading an academic study of the so-called 'Nigerian Prince' scams, that said the prime targets were actually people who thought they could out-wit the scammers. The emails were purposefully ridiculous because they were baiting people who would reply out of hubris and then get caught up in a one-upmanship game with the scammer. The arrogant cynic was their target, not the naive or stupid. And of course in the long run the scammers always won.
Around that time, a popular pastime for some people (including me) hanging out in the MeFiChat room was baiting 'Nigerian' scammers with the view to occupying them with long drawn-out phone conversations and emails and by setting up appointments to meet with them, then not turning up. Looking back, this was a bit stupid and potentially dangerous, but it sure was fun!
posted by dg at 9:30 PM on July 30 [1 favorite]
Around that time, a popular pastime for some people (including me) hanging out in the MeFiChat room was baiting 'Nigerian' scammers with the view to occupying them with long drawn-out phone conversations and emails and by setting up appointments to meet with them, then not turning up. Looking back, this was a bit stupid and potentially dangerous, but it sure was fun!
posted by dg at 9:30 PM on July 30 [1 favorite]
I (with 20/20 hindsight) got to watch an affection scam play out a few years ago. It went:
Apparently a fairly common scam though. You can see how the plan would’ve worked out just as effectively if EE was catfished instead.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:15 AM on July 31 [4 favorites]
- Elderly expat (EE) with absent adult children hires friendly new local assistant (LA).
- LA systematically trims EE’s social schedule to isolate LA.
- With LA the only remaining contact, EE comes to view LA as their own child.
- No harm no foul scheme is arrived at where the two will go get married in the U.S. so that LA can collect survivor social security benefits when EE dies.
- With EE looking down the road at providing for LA, LA takes immediate advantage of the fact that they are married to drain all of EE’s U.S bank accounts.
Apparently a fairly common scam though. You can see how the plan would’ve worked out just as effectively if EE was catfished instead.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:15 AM on July 31 [4 favorites]
If the atrocious phone companies can identify incoming scam calls to you, why can't they just block them...
They can; they just charge you extra for it
The ActiveArmor app is free. You can pay for more, but I don't and still find it pretty effective. I do work there, and I know we should be doing more (not my department), but I want to be clear that there are free methods on offer.
posted by soelo at 10:07 AM on July 31 [3 favorites]
They can; they just charge you extra for it
The ActiveArmor app is free. You can pay for more, but I don't and still find it pretty effective. I do work there, and I know we should be doing more (not my department), but I want to be clear that there are free methods on offer.
posted by soelo at 10:07 AM on July 31 [3 favorites]
By sending an email that repels all but the most gullible, the scammer gets the most promising marks to self-select, and tilts the true to false positive ratio in his favor.
This is also why there is such a huge grifter economy surrounding MAGA/QAnon. That giant american flag tshirt with Trump's face is a flashing neon con-artist bullseye announcing "I am the greater fool you are looking for". The 2016-2024 Republican voter lists are going to be hammered by con artists in boiler room call centers for decades to come even after Trump is gone.
posted by srboisvert at 3:06 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]
This is also why there is such a huge grifter economy surrounding MAGA/QAnon. That giant american flag tshirt with Trump's face is a flashing neon con-artist bullseye announcing "I am the greater fool you are looking for". The 2016-2024 Republican voter lists are going to be hammered by con artists in boiler room call centers for decades to come even after Trump is gone.
posted by srboisvert at 3:06 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]
Not quite this but the AARP has a weekly podcast, The Perfect Scam, that has been running since 2018. It's cohosted by Frank Abagnale.
I believe AARP cut ties with Abagnale because he himself is a complete fraud. I mean, it's great because he made a name for himself as some kind of fraudster mastermind but he also made up all those stories, too.
The AARP Fraudwatch page is good, though. And the FTC maintains a page about scams with regular updates.
posted by amanda at 3:12 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]
I believe AARP cut ties with Abagnale because he himself is a complete fraud. I mean, it's great because he made a name for himself as some kind of fraudster mastermind but he also made up all those stories, too.
The AARP Fraudwatch page is good, though. And the FTC maintains a page about scams with regular updates.
posted by amanda at 3:12 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]
Here's an article about AARP and Abagnale. I listened to an amazing multi-part podcast on him that was a total takedown - very entertaining - the show is called "Pretend" and the host/podcaster is Jordan Harbinger.
posted by amanda at 3:17 PM on August 1 [4 favorites]
posted by amanda at 3:17 PM on August 1 [4 favorites]
I want to add one more thing. If someone falls for a scam they are more vulnerable to falling for more scam. There's two parts to this, one is that they are now on a mark list that gets sold on the darkweb as a kind of callsheet for later scammers to try their luck. A vulnerable person who was vulnerable once may just be vulnerable again.
Secondly, there's a potent psychology at play where you feel foolish for having falled for a scam and you want to put right the story. You want your money back. You want to maybe prove to yourself that you are not vulnerable. You might want to prove to someone in your life that you actually didn't fall for a ruse! The scammer uses this as a leverage to keep you engaged. They might change the gambit and convince you there are ways to get your money back. They might pose as law enforcement and get you to give up more information/money to fix things. They might try to blackmail you - send a nude photo and they will return the funds! Now send more funds or they will send the nude photo to their children or their employer! Or, there's an idea that the person they are dealing with is a true friend or trustworthy person but they just are having a confusion and you can fix this and then nobody will ever know how foolish and taken you were. It's literally chasing good money after bad. Once you've been scammed, the best thing to do is to shut it all down. Zero contact. Zero pursuit. Get therapy because this sucks.
posted by amanda at 3:52 PM on August 1 [2 favorites]
Secondly, there's a potent psychology at play where you feel foolish for having falled for a scam and you want to put right the story. You want your money back. You want to maybe prove to yourself that you are not vulnerable. You might want to prove to someone in your life that you actually didn't fall for a ruse! The scammer uses this as a leverage to keep you engaged. They might change the gambit and convince you there are ways to get your money back. They might pose as law enforcement and get you to give up more information/money to fix things. They might try to blackmail you - send a nude photo and they will return the funds! Now send more funds or they will send the nude photo to their children or their employer! Or, there's an idea that the person they are dealing with is a true friend or trustworthy person but they just are having a confusion and you can fix this and then nobody will ever know how foolish and taken you were. It's literally chasing good money after bad. Once you've been scammed, the best thing to do is to shut it all down. Zero contact. Zero pursuit. Get therapy because this sucks.
posted by amanda at 3:52 PM on August 1 [2 favorites]
I believe AARP cut ties with Abagnale because he himself is a complete fraud.
Wow!! That's melted my brain a little. He was claiming to have worked for the FBI for decades -- and that was all BS too. I'd only listened to the first few seasons so he's still on them, speaking with such authority while the cohosts worship him.
posted by NailsTheCat at 1:31 PM on August 2
Wow!! That's melted my brain a little. He was claiming to have worked for the FBI for decades -- and that was all BS too. I'd only listened to the first few seasons so he's still on them, speaking with such authority while the cohosts worship him.
posted by NailsTheCat at 1:31 PM on August 2
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Not for much longer; I’m 55 and don’t have shit for retirement. The boomer wealth is gradually draining away.
posted by Melismata at 6:10 PM on July 29 [16 favorites]