This is good news, right?
July 30, 2024 8:53 PM Subscribe
Project 2025 director ends work on plan for Donald Trump presidency after continued attack from Democrats The director of the "Project 2025" plan for a Donald Trump presidency has stepped down after Democrats made attacking it central to their election campaign and Trump repeatedly distanced himself from it.
"But the Trump campaign said it had "been very clear for over a year that Project 2025 had nothing to do with the campaign, did not speak for the campaign, and should not be associated with the campaign or the president in any way".
The Heritage Foundation think tank, which led Project 2025 in conjunction with more than 100 other conservative groups, said Mr Dans's work overseeing it was always due to end about now. It said Mr Dans left voluntarily and it was not under pressure from the Trump campaign.
But a former Heritage Foundation aide, speaking on condition of anonymity, said it was almost certain the Trump campaign had forced the shake-up."
"But the Trump campaign said it had "been very clear for over a year that Project 2025 had nothing to do with the campaign, did not speak for the campaign, and should not be associated with the campaign or the president in any way".
The Heritage Foundation think tank, which led Project 2025 in conjunction with more than 100 other conservative groups, said Mr Dans's work overseeing it was always due to end about now. It said Mr Dans left voluntarily and it was not under pressure from the Trump campaign.
But a former Heritage Foundation aide, speaking on condition of anonymity, said it was almost certain the Trump campaign had forced the shake-up."
The thing is, just as I can believe Trump would remorselessly throw his own people under the bus as soon as a fart cloud dawned over this project, I absolutely can believe Trump didn't know about it until a few weeks ago. Can you imagine someone in Trump's inner circle presenting him with a 900-page book? Can you imagine them even expecting him to open a 900-page book? Maybe if they included nude photos of Shannon Tweed and Kathy Ireland in it. I'm confident that the number of projects Trump's people have developed without his input is staggering.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:03 PM on July 30 [37 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:03 PM on July 30 [37 favorites]
Something something sunlight is the best disinfectant?
posted by Ghidorah at 9:11 PM on July 30 [2 favorites]
posted by Ghidorah at 9:11 PM on July 30 [2 favorites]
Project 2025 lives, of course. They just disavow it until they get into office. If they get voted into office it'll all happen anyway, just like when Alito said Row v Wade was an "important precedent of the Supreme Court." They don't care about telling the truth, they'll just say whatever gets them behind the levers of power. It happens time after time.
posted by JHarris at 9:13 PM on July 30 [154 favorites]
posted by JHarris at 9:13 PM on July 30 [154 favorites]
Long live Project Date TBD.
Honestly all the media types fooled by this have the wit and guile of toddlers.
posted by Artw at 9:15 PM on July 30 [64 favorites]
Honestly all the media types fooled by this have the wit and guile of toddlers.
posted by Artw at 9:15 PM on July 30 [64 favorites]
Forcing the head of Project 2025 out?
That’s such a weird thing to do. Also: it’s weak.
(hit ’em where they live)
posted by Ryvar at 9:16 PM on July 30 [6 favorites]
That’s such a weird thing to do. Also: it’s weak.
(hit ’em where they live)
posted by Ryvar at 9:16 PM on July 30 [6 favorites]
Anyone checked for Project 2030 leads? Coz you know the christofascists ain't giving up that easily.
posted by neonamber at 9:19 PM on July 30 [5 favorites]
posted by neonamber at 9:19 PM on July 30 [5 favorites]
They know people hate them and hate their actual policies, so all they have is their weird culture war. That's my take away
posted by lescour at 9:20 PM on July 30 [15 favorites]
posted by lescour at 9:20 PM on July 30 [15 favorites]
Worth remembering here that "Obamacare" was originally "Romneycare" in Massachusetts, which was originally... another Heritage Foundation scheme. Thanks Obama!
posted by Pedantzilla at 9:28 PM on July 30 [29 favorites]
posted by Pedantzilla at 9:28 PM on July 30 [29 favorites]
this campaign’s clumsy attempt to distance themselves is effectively an admission of guilt. embarrassing!
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:30 PM on July 30 [14 favorites]
posted by bombastic lowercase pronouncements at 9:30 PM on July 30 [14 favorites]
Different version of what curoi posted above.
The Heritage Foundation's work on Project 2025 is done, so them stopping work on it means ... nothing. The next step of course, is for the next Republican administration to implement it.
posted by Ickster at 9:31 PM on July 30 [36 favorites]
The Heritage Foundation's work on Project 2025 is done, so them stopping work on it means ... nothing. The next step of course, is for the next Republican administration to implement it.
posted by Ickster at 9:31 PM on July 30 [36 favorites]
This "news" is just an attempt to hide the plan from being a talking point.
They put together this detailed plan as a rally for the worst people you could ever be cursed to know and when it started expanding beyond their christo-fascist cult members, they were *shocked* to find out that, hey, wait, not everyone is super pumped about our little scheme? So, now that the poll numbers are reflecting more people finding out about it, and it's been really not good news for them, all they can do is scramble and pretend it never happened.
They're trying to get Project 2025 out of the news cycle, and out of the talking points, and we absolutely cannot let them do that.
posted by revmitcz at 9:41 PM on July 30 [54 favorites]
They put together this detailed plan as a rally for the worst people you could ever be cursed to know and when it started expanding beyond their christo-fascist cult members, they were *shocked* to find out that, hey, wait, not everyone is super pumped about our little scheme? So, now that the poll numbers are reflecting more people finding out about it, and it's been really not good news for them, all they can do is scramble and pretend it never happened.
They're trying to get Project 2025 out of the news cycle, and out of the talking points, and we absolutely cannot let them do that.
posted by revmitcz at 9:41 PM on July 30 [54 favorites]
Project 2025 lives, of course. They just disavow it until they get into office.
This. Project 2025 is a fascist manifesto. If enough people can be made to forget the chaos and death that Trump caused the first time around, Republicans think they can rely on enough of us to forget their open declaration to end democracy.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:41 PM on July 30 [26 favorites]
This. Project 2025 is a fascist manifesto. If enough people can be made to forget the chaos and death that Trump caused the first time around, Republicans think they can rely on enough of us to forget their open declaration to end democracy.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:41 PM on July 30 [26 favorites]
Yo, I don't hang out with those guys
Man, I ain't got nothin' to do with those dudes
posted by credulous at 9:45 PM on July 30 [16 favorites]
Man, I ain't got nothin' to do with those dudes
posted by credulous at 9:45 PM on July 30 [16 favorites]
JHarris - indeed, starting with Regan, at least! Credulous (thank you!)provided the timeline where I found the 1980 version of 2025:
Heritage's 1,093-page public policy blueprint, Mandate for Leadership: Policy Management in a Conservative Administration, becomes the policy bible of the newly elected Reagan administration on everything from taxes and regulation to crime and national defense. The new president gives copies to every member of his Cabinet at their first meeting. The upshot: Nearly two-thirds of the 2,000 recommendations contained in Mandate were adopted by the Reagan administration.
posted by esoteric things at 10:15 PM on July 30 [23 favorites]
Heritage's 1,093-page public policy blueprint, Mandate for Leadership: Policy Management in a Conservative Administration, becomes the policy bible of the newly elected Reagan administration on everything from taxes and regulation to crime and national defense. The new president gives copies to every member of his Cabinet at their first meeting. The upshot: Nearly two-thirds of the 2,000 recommendations contained in Mandate were adopted by the Reagan administration.
posted by esoteric things at 10:15 PM on July 30 [23 favorites]
> Saying that Project 2025 is no longer doing policy work is sort of like saying God is no longer producing new bibles. Technically true, but misses the way in which the document exerts influence.
posted by Clowder of bats at 10:36 PM on July 30 [48 favorites]
posted by Clowder of bats at 10:36 PM on July 30 [48 favorites]
"important precedent of the Supreme Court."
That was Kavanaugh who replaced Kennedy. Subtext there was an "important precedent to remove" so they could untether Casey, which they finally did in 2022.
posted by torokunai at 10:42 PM on July 30 [6 favorites]
That was Kavanaugh who replaced Kennedy. Subtext there was an "important precedent to remove" so they could untether Casey, which they finally did in 2022.
posted by torokunai at 10:42 PM on July 30 [6 favorites]
I'm inclined to believe the claim that he was due to leave anyway - the manifesto is complete and ready for the next suitable President to put into place. I'm also inclined to believe Trump saying he had nothing to do with it. Firstly, it's far too coherent (also abhorrent, but that's not the point) for him to have been involved in and, secondly, he would never admit to implementing anyone else's ideas. He'd just do the same thing and stubbornly insist it was all original thought.
posted by dg at 11:27 PM on July 30 [3 favorites]
posted by dg at 11:27 PM on July 30 [3 favorites]
Via Meidas News: July 12 audio of Project 2025 leader admitting that Trump distancing from Project 2025 is a tactical campaign lie due to the recent attention and criticism the plan has received.
posted by darkstar at 11:33 PM on July 30 [38 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 11:33 PM on July 30 [38 favorites]
Mandate for Leadership
These weird losers squeak into office on technicalities while losing the popular vote and declare they have a mandate from the people. It happens every time. I feel like Bruce Banner in the first Avengers movie, wanting to shout “Stop lying to me!” in frustration.
posted by Servo5678 at 11:37 PM on July 30 [4 favorites]
These weird losers squeak into office on technicalities while losing the popular vote and declare they have a mandate from the people. It happens every time. I feel like Bruce Banner in the first Avengers movie, wanting to shout “Stop lying to me!” in frustration.
posted by Servo5678 at 11:37 PM on July 30 [4 favorites]
'Weird' is just Newt Gingrich's weaponized use of the word 'bizarre' being (finally!) turned against him and his side.
posted by zaixfeep at 12:33 AM on July 31 [4 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 12:33 AM on July 31 [4 favorites]
A group of DC insiders recently role-played a second Trump presidency:
"In the course of the Insurrection Act tabletop exercise, the person role-playing Trump initially met resistance from senior military figures who tried to cling to the Posse Comitatus Act barring federal troops from engaging in civilian law enforcement. As the scenario unfolded, Trump grew impatient and ended up firing the joint chiefs of staff, replacing them with military officers who would do his bidding and federalise the national guard.' ... The way the exercise played out jibed with the fears of another of its participants, Paul Eaton, a former major general in the US army. “I’m not sure we can count on the military in a Trump world,” he said..."
posted by zaixfeep at 12:46 AM on July 31 [10 favorites]
"In the course of the Insurrection Act tabletop exercise, the person role-playing Trump initially met resistance from senior military figures who tried to cling to the Posse Comitatus Act barring federal troops from engaging in civilian law enforcement. As the scenario unfolded, Trump grew impatient and ended up firing the joint chiefs of staff, replacing them with military officers who would do his bidding and federalise the national guard.' ... The way the exercise played out jibed with the fears of another of its participants, Paul Eaton, a former major general in the US army. “I’m not sure we can count on the military in a Trump world,” he said..."
posted by zaixfeep at 12:46 AM on July 31 [10 favorites]
Project 2025 … and 1921, and 1973, and 1981 by Rick Perlstein in The American Prospect
MtDewd linked to this previously but it bears repeating. It's either a comfort (because of the incompetence) or even more frightening (because of the persistence), YMMV.
posted by chavenet at 2:03 AM on July 31 [7 favorites]
MtDewd linked to this previously but it bears repeating. It's either a comfort (because of the incompetence) or even more frightening (because of the persistence), YMMV.
posted by chavenet at 2:03 AM on July 31 [7 favorites]
Good look hiding this -- there's a new book coming out, written by some of the same guys and with a preface by (drumroll...) J.D. Vance: Dawn's Early Light: Taking Back Washington to Save America
posted by mumimor at 2:53 AM on July 31 [6 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 2:53 AM on July 31 [6 favorites]
The Washington Post’s credulous reporting of this was another of many other recent moments where I’ve felt like I’m dumber reading the news that I am simply ignoring it.
posted by ryanshepard at 3:17 AM on July 31 [18 favorites]
posted by ryanshepard at 3:17 AM on July 31 [18 favorites]
The complaining and whining from Republicans on this one is a clear tell. Project 2025 is hurting them in the campaign, and they know it. The response should be to keep reminding them about it so that everyone can hear. If they admit to supporting it, it sticks to them and drags them down. If they deny it, they're provable liars. If they disavow it, they're flip-floppers. There's no downside to using it as a campaign tactic.
I know James Carville probably isn't the most popular figure or political type on MF, but he used to say "if you see your opponent drowning, throw the S.O.B. an anchor". This is one of those instances.
posted by gimonca at 4:19 AM on July 31 [21 favorites]
I know James Carville probably isn't the most popular figure or political type on MF, but he used to say "if you see your opponent drowning, throw the S.O.B. an anchor". This is one of those instances.
posted by gimonca at 4:19 AM on July 31 [21 favorites]
The 2025 brand has a bad look now but the same horrible ideas are going to get repackaged with new names like Reganomics err Voodoo Economics err Supply Side Economics err job creator tax cuts.
posted by cmfletcher at 4:50 AM on July 31 [3 favorites]
posted by cmfletcher at 4:50 AM on July 31 [3 favorites]
The guy who stepped down (Heritage's site) had Trump administration appointments in OPM and HUD. He was the president of the Federalist Society at UVA's law school.
We will 100% see this asshole again, and he'll probably be getting another government paycheck.
posted by box at 4:53 AM on July 31 [22 favorites]
We will 100% see this asshole again, and he'll probably be getting another government paycheck.
posted by box at 4:53 AM on July 31 [22 favorites]
OK fine, but now would be a good time for the media to actually do their job and follow up. Sit down with Trump or his surrogates, go through multiple specific policy points in Project 2025, and ask which they agree and disagree with.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 5:07 AM on July 31 [14 favorites]
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 5:07 AM on July 31 [14 favorites]
I love how serious-sounding news organs on the web are debunking claims about Project 2025 that nobody made:
"FALSE: Project 2025 doesn't mention eliminating Social Security and disability benefits"
"FALSE: Project 2025 doesn't call for eliminating OSHA"
"FALSE: Project 2025 is an effort by The Heritage Foundation, not Donald Trump"
"FALSE: Project 2025 doesn't promote leopards eating peoples' faces" (OK I made that one up)
posted by panglos at 5:11 AM on July 31 [2 favorites]
"FALSE: Project 2025 doesn't mention eliminating Social Security and disability benefits"
"FALSE: Project 2025 doesn't call for eliminating OSHA"
"FALSE: Project 2025 is an effort by The Heritage Foundation, not Donald Trump"
"FALSE: Project 2025 doesn't promote leopards eating peoples' faces" (OK I made that one up)
posted by panglos at 5:11 AM on July 31 [2 favorites]
OK fine, but now would be a good time for the media to actually do their job and follow up. Sit down with Trump or his surrogates, go through multiple specific policy points in Project 2025, and ask which they agree and disagree with.
Whyever would they start now?
I am encouraged that the "you'll never have to vote again" thing didn't get swept under the rug, like so many others did.
posted by panglos at 5:14 AM on July 31 [10 favorites]
Whyever would they start now?
I am encouraged that the "you'll never have to vote again" thing didn't get swept under the rug, like so many others did.
posted by panglos at 5:14 AM on July 31 [10 favorites]
I'm consistently baffled by the whole Jon Stewart thing of "why won't the media do its JOB and follow up with HARD QUESTIONS?" The media is owned by the oligarchy: it IS doing its job by engaging in false equivalence, taking conservatives at their word and not pointing out that they're lying, harping on the issues the oligarchs want harped on, etc. Yes, there are truth-seeking journalists out there, but they're not working for platforms that regular people actually see: nobody gets above Cub Reporter unless and until they're willing to uncritically and enthusiastically toe the oligarchs' line.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 5:16 AM on July 31 [15 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 5:16 AM on July 31 [15 favorites]
I wasn't aware of Agenda47.
Might as well start hammering on that one, too.
posted by MtDewd at 5:21 AM on July 31 [2 favorites]
Might as well start hammering on that one, too.
posted by MtDewd at 5:21 AM on July 31 [2 favorites]
I think that Meidas News link is borked. This one worked for me.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:46 AM on July 31 [1 favorite]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:46 AM on July 31 [1 favorite]
You know it doesn't matter whether they're repudiating Project 2025 now. The fact this existed and was endorsed will always be valid.
The point is they did for a while think it was okay and openly approved of it. It doesn't matter what they say now. It doesn't matter how honest or dishonest they are now.
Keep everyone aware of this. It has to be a shame every one of them bears for the rest of their lives: That they published and endorsed the plans to usurp the government and establish a dictatorship.
posted by at by at 5:50 AM on July 31 [8 favorites]
The point is they did for a while think it was okay and openly approved of it. It doesn't matter what they say now. It doesn't matter how honest or dishonest they are now.
Keep everyone aware of this. It has to be a shame every one of them bears for the rest of their lives: That they published and endorsed the plans to usurp the government and establish a dictatorship.
posted by at by at 5:50 AM on July 31 [8 favorites]
The head of project 2025 was due to stand down three months before the 2024 election?
What sort of mindless drone would buy into not only that, but that it simultaneously proves that Trump had nothing to do with 2025 and that he heroically shut it down and erased it from existence?
Answer: the core of MAGA. I think the left’s concerted effort to publicly bind Trump with 2025, fair or not, was actually affecting his base. There is a lot of 2025 that would cause infighting even on the far right and it was being presented as Trump’s de facto agenda.
That’s the only context in which this weak and silly political move makes sense to me. It’s not meant to convince anyone who isn’t already desperate to be convinced.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:53 AM on July 31 [3 favorites]
What sort of mindless drone would buy into not only that, but that it simultaneously proves that Trump had nothing to do with 2025 and that he heroically shut it down and erased it from existence?
Answer: the core of MAGA. I think the left’s concerted effort to publicly bind Trump with 2025, fair or not, was actually affecting his base. There is a lot of 2025 that would cause infighting even on the far right and it was being presented as Trump’s de facto agenda.
That’s the only context in which this weak and silly political move makes sense to me. It’s not meant to convince anyone who isn’t already desperate to be convinced.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:53 AM on July 31 [3 favorites]
They truly think that the public is stupid. "We didn't mean it! That guy is gone! You can totally trust that we don't believe the thing we wrote almost 1,000 pages about anymore!" It got bad press now they're not calling it that anymore. The agenda hasn't changed.
posted by downtohisturtles at 6:13 AM on July 31 [2 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 6:13 AM on July 31 [2 favorites]
Did Philip Morris and Raytheon and the School of the Americas "step down"?
No, they just renamed themselves when the old name got a bad rep. Didn't miss a single beat.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:15 AM on July 31 [14 favorites]
No, they just renamed themselves when the old name got a bad rep. Didn't miss a single beat.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:15 AM on July 31 [14 favorites]
That’s the only context in which this weak and silly political move makes sense to me. It’s not meant to convince anyone who isn’t already desperate to be convinced.
I disagree. I feel a little axe-grindy about this, but us politically engaged folks here and various other web places tend to lose sight of the fact that millions of regular and reliable voters don't really pay much attention to "politics" until much closer to the election. They get bits and pieces and dribs and drabs and it's not until the ads and outreach really ramp up in September and October that they start going, "oh, right, I gotta think about who I'm gonna vote for if I bother at all."
Project 2025 has been all over social media lately, so "shutting it down" now means that when these voters post a FB question in October about, "hey wasn't there some weird project something-or-other about Trump, like, firing all the government workers?" their MAGAt uncle can reply, "that shut down months ago and never had anything to do with Trump anyway" and point to MSM news articles as "proof" and then the voter goes, "oh, okay, well it sounded pretty bad but if it's not happening then I won't worry about it" and then they lose motivation to vote against Trump.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:17 AM on July 31 [16 favorites]
I disagree. I feel a little axe-grindy about this, but us politically engaged folks here and various other web places tend to lose sight of the fact that millions of regular and reliable voters don't really pay much attention to "politics" until much closer to the election. They get bits and pieces and dribs and drabs and it's not until the ads and outreach really ramp up in September and October that they start going, "oh, right, I gotta think about who I'm gonna vote for if I bother at all."
Project 2025 has been all over social media lately, so "shutting it down" now means that when these voters post a FB question in October about, "hey wasn't there some weird project something-or-other about Trump, like, firing all the government workers?" their MAGAt uncle can reply, "that shut down months ago and never had anything to do with Trump anyway" and point to MSM news articles as "proof" and then the voter goes, "oh, okay, well it sounded pretty bad but if it's not happening then I won't worry about it" and then they lose motivation to vote against Trump.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:17 AM on July 31 [16 favorites]
“Who was responsible for it?” “Literally all the people who are around him at all times advising him and continue to be so”
posted by Artw at 6:24 AM on July 31 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:24 AM on July 31 [6 favorites]
The complaining and whining from Republicans on this one is a clear tell. Project 2025 is hurting them in the campaign, and they know it.
Republican policies are not popular, which is one reason the so-called "liberal media" doesn't like to engage in an honest discussion of policy. (Another being it's harrrrrd and borrrring.)
posted by Gelatin at 6:36 AM on July 31 [12 favorites]
Republican policies are not popular, which is one reason the so-called "liberal media" doesn't like to engage in an honest discussion of policy. (Another being it's harrrrrd and borrrring.)
posted by Gelatin at 6:36 AM on July 31 [12 favorites]
A thing to keep in mind about Project 2025 is that it's not just a Christmas Wish List for Hitler Santa, but it was also a recruiting tool. The 900 page policy document was paired with a Presidential Personnel Database that was intended to collect names and contact info for folks who are interested in working in a second Trump presidency, and it sought to train them early on how to get political appointments and use those appointments to dismantle "the Deep State".
There's a pretty good AMA from a Redditor who went through the training where they share how tactics on, for example, how to create a toxic work environment to drive out career bureaucrats and insert Orwellian doublespeak in all government documents. This personnel database has been built, the rolodex exists, the training has been delivered.
Their job is done and just waiting for the next Republican president to get elected.
And, tbf, this is not all that different from the work that think tanks like, say, Center for American Progress have done to stock the Biden administration or been Obama's "Idea Factory". This practice of creating policy papers and building a personnel database is very, very fair game. Heritage also played the same role in funnelling talent into the Bush administration. It was just surprised and unprepared for Trump's 2016 win, hence resulting in the omnishambles that was the 2016 Transition.
But it's one thing to point your think tank's intellectual skillset at solving problems like "lifting up the middle class", it's another for the think tank to try to solve the problem of "why there isn't enough fascism in America."
posted by bl1nk at 6:54 AM on July 31 [27 favorites]
There's a pretty good AMA from a Redditor who went through the training where they share how tactics on, for example, how to create a toxic work environment to drive out career bureaucrats and insert Orwellian doublespeak in all government documents. This personnel database has been built, the rolodex exists, the training has been delivered.
Their job is done and just waiting for the next Republican president to get elected.
And, tbf, this is not all that different from the work that think tanks like, say, Center for American Progress have done to stock the Biden administration or been Obama's "Idea Factory". This practice of creating policy papers and building a personnel database is very, very fair game. Heritage also played the same role in funnelling talent into the Bush administration. It was just surprised and unprepared for Trump's 2016 win, hence resulting in the omnishambles that was the 2016 Transition.
But it's one thing to point your think tank's intellectual skillset at solving problems like "lifting up the middle class", it's another for the think tank to try to solve the problem of "why there isn't enough fascism in America."
posted by bl1nk at 6:54 AM on July 31 [27 favorites]
As anyone has ever lived in an old house knows, the one roach that you stomp is a sign that there are lots more somewhere hidden.
What I would truly love is for everyone connected to this fascist how-to manual to be tagged with it forevermore, so that even if the Dems are running things, we pay attention to them squirreling away in other government roles and think-tanks. It should be like skunk stink or that dye they put in stolen bank cash, it should linger no matter how much you scrub.
posted by emjaybee at 7:22 AM on July 31 [15 favorites]
What I would truly love is for everyone connected to this fascist how-to manual to be tagged with it forevermore, so that even if the Dems are running things, we pay attention to them squirreling away in other government roles and think-tanks. It should be like skunk stink or that dye they put in stolen bank cash, it should linger no matter how much you scrub.
posted by emjaybee at 7:22 AM on July 31 [15 favorites]
Something something sunlight is the best disinfectant?
In my experience, a strong oxidizing agent is even better.
posted by signal at 7:22 AM on July 31 [2 favorites]
In my experience, a strong oxidizing agent is even better.
posted by signal at 7:22 AM on July 31 [2 favorites]
“I love how serious-sounding news organs on the web are debunking claims about Project 2025 that nobody made”
On the internet people are making all sorts of claims about it because social media people want clicks, it’s a useful political tool and nobody wants to read 900 pages. I saw someone on social media state that there’s a plan to execute homosexuals in there. My TikTok obsessed father also has multiple bizarre ideas about what it contains.
posted by Selena777 at 7:36 AM on July 31 [1 favorite]
On the internet people are making all sorts of claims about it because social media people want clicks, it’s a useful political tool and nobody wants to read 900 pages. I saw someone on social media state that there’s a plan to execute homosexuals in there. My TikTok obsessed father also has multiple bizarre ideas about what it contains.
posted by Selena777 at 7:36 AM on July 31 [1 favorite]
On the topic of Republicans being willing, even eager, to say or do whatever is politically expedient at the moment, turning on a dime to take on a new position..."5 Excerpts From JD Vance’s Emails to a Transgender Classmate"
Following the precedent of G.H.W. Bush flitting from calling Ronald Reagan's trickle-down economics "voodoo economics" to proudly serving as veep to the Great Prevaricator for eight years.
posted by the sobsister at 7:38 AM on July 31 [2 favorites]
Following the precedent of G.H.W. Bush flitting from calling Ronald Reagan's trickle-down economics "voodoo economics" to proudly serving as veep to the Great Prevaricator for eight years.
posted by the sobsister at 7:38 AM on July 31 [2 favorites]
What I would truly love is for everyone connected to this fascist how-to manual to be tagged with it forevermore, so that even if the Dems are running things, we pay attention to them squirreling away in other government roles and think-tanks. It should be like skunk stink or that dye they put in stolen bank cash, it should linger no matter how much you scrub.
I'm reminded of Inglourious Basterds for some reason...
posted by grubi at 8:07 AM on July 31 [3 favorites]
I'm reminded of Inglourious Basterds for some reason...
posted by grubi at 8:07 AM on July 31 [3 favorites]
> Good look hiding this -- there's a new book coming out, written by some of the same guys and with a preface by (drumroll...) J.D. Vance: Dawn's Early Light: Taking Back Washington to Save America
that wasn't the original title.
> The book was written and announced before Vance was chosen as Trump’s running mate. But there’s some indication that people involved had some late second thoughts about it. It was originally announced as “Dawn’s Early Light: Burning Down Washington to Save America,” with a cover image showing a match over the word “Washington.”
posted by Clowder of bats at 8:39 AM on July 31 [9 favorites]
that wasn't the original title.
> The book was written and announced before Vance was chosen as Trump’s running mate. But there’s some indication that people involved had some late second thoughts about it. It was originally announced as “Dawn’s Early Light: Burning Down Washington to Save America,” with a cover image showing a match over the word “Washington.”
posted by Clowder of bats at 8:39 AM on July 31 [9 favorites]
It was originally announced as “Dawn’s Early Light: Burning Down Washington to Save America,” with a cover image showing a match over the word “Washington.”
Until a week ago, it seems. Guess they missed some things when they vetted Vance.
A thing to keep in mind about Project 2025 is that it's not just a Christmas Wish List for Hitler Santa, but it was also a recruiting tool.
I think that's why it got such a big profile: Heritage had to make it a strong brand to recruit all the partisans they need for the "Schedule F" plan. Normally they can just empty out all the think tanks, but they need at least 5x as many for '25, which is a whole country's worth of Vance-style weirdos.
Heritage has been making plans like this since 1981, and they bragged about how Trump implemented even more of its policies in 2017 as Reagan did in 1981. It looks like they bit off a bit more than they could chew this time though.
posted by netowl at 8:53 AM on July 31 [5 favorites]
Until a week ago, it seems. Guess they missed some things when they vetted Vance.
A thing to keep in mind about Project 2025 is that it's not just a Christmas Wish List for Hitler Santa, but it was also a recruiting tool.
I think that's why it got such a big profile: Heritage had to make it a strong brand to recruit all the partisans they need for the "Schedule F" plan. Normally they can just empty out all the think tanks, but they need at least 5x as many for '25, which is a whole country's worth of Vance-style weirdos.
Heritage has been making plans like this since 1981, and they bragged about how Trump implemented even more of its policies in 2017 as Reagan did in 1981. It looks like they bit off a bit more than they could chew this time though.
posted by netowl at 8:53 AM on July 31 [5 favorites]
their MAGAt uncle can reply, "that shut down months ago and never had anything to do with Trump anyway" and point to MSM news articles as "proof"
Fair enough.
The whole thing also has a vaguely “Wag the Dog“ feeling, where one side splattered the news with a fictional crisis and the other side, unable to refute something that doesn’t exist, instead splatters the media with the news that the fictional crisis is over.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:03 AM on July 31
Fair enough.
The whole thing also has a vaguely “Wag the Dog“ feeling, where one side splattered the news with a fictional crisis and the other side, unable to refute something that doesn’t exist, instead splatters the media with the news that the fictional crisis is over.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:03 AM on July 31
Wikipedia:
Project 2025 partners employ over 200 former Trump administration officials. CNN found that at least 140 people who worked in the Trump administration had a hand in Project 2025, including more than half of the people listed as authors, editors and contributors. Vox estimates that nearly two-thirds of the authors and editors served in the Trump administration. As of July 13, 2024, there is no evidence that Trump was personally involved in drafting or approving the plan. Six of his cabinet secretaries are authors or contributors, and about 20 pages are credited to his first deputy chief of staff .
Him not knowing about it is absolutely not credible. It’s also nothing like what progressive think tanks produce, in that 2025 is nakedly proposing a partisan takeover of the majority of non-partisan government jobs and agencies, and elimination of major parts of the government.
posted by caviar2d2 at 9:08 AM on July 31 [3 favorites]
Project 2025 partners employ over 200 former Trump administration officials. CNN found that at least 140 people who worked in the Trump administration had a hand in Project 2025, including more than half of the people listed as authors, editors and contributors. Vox estimates that nearly two-thirds of the authors and editors served in the Trump administration. As of July 13, 2024, there is no evidence that Trump was personally involved in drafting or approving the plan. Six of his cabinet secretaries are authors or contributors, and about 20 pages are credited to his first deputy chief of staff .
Him not knowing about it is absolutely not credible. It’s also nothing like what progressive think tanks produce, in that 2025 is nakedly proposing a partisan takeover of the majority of non-partisan government jobs and agencies, and elimination of major parts of the government.
posted by caviar2d2 at 9:08 AM on July 31 [3 favorites]
I think being tied to 2025 also causes a more basic problem for Trump. His whole sales pitch is based on the fact that things are going to be Great, and don’t you worry about the details because things are just going to be Great. All of your concerns, whatever they are, are going to be fixed.
Tying him to a detailed list of actions, any list of actions, attacks the warm fuzzy feeling people get from knowing that their specific problem is in the president’s sights and will be addressed. Your taxes are in arrears? That’ll be fixed. Your property dispute with your neighbor? That will be fixed. Your farm town economy is collapsing? That’ll be fixed.
As long as those things remain in the voters’ fertile imagination, things are fine. When there’s an actual agenda put forth they’re going to look to see if they are on it.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:19 AM on July 31 [22 favorites]
Tying him to a detailed list of actions, any list of actions, attacks the warm fuzzy feeling people get from knowing that their specific problem is in the president’s sights and will be addressed. Your taxes are in arrears? That’ll be fixed. Your property dispute with your neighbor? That will be fixed. Your farm town economy is collapsing? That’ll be fixed.
As long as those things remain in the voters’ fertile imagination, things are fine. When there’s an actual agenda put forth they’re going to look to see if they are on it.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:19 AM on July 31 [22 favorites]
^ 110% correct, I can't favorite it hard enough.
posted by soundguy99 at 9:29 AM on July 31 [1 favorite]
posted by soundguy99 at 9:29 AM on July 31 [1 favorite]
All good points above so this is a bit repetitive, but it cannot be said enough (IMO) the national politico-media cartel will ABSOLUTELY buy this bullshit from Trump like they buy everything from him. The very recent, 'but he didnt really mean it" torrent from them claiming we wasn't talking about ending elections was up and running across the NYT Wapo and WSJ 30 seconds after it got publicity.
They believe the guy who tried to kill the 2020 election results wont kill actual elections once back in power, this time as an actual dictator. The politico-media sucks and is either totally incapable of rising to the moment or is on Team Fascism. Probably both.
posted by WatTylerJr at 9:37 AM on July 31 [7 favorites]
They believe the guy who tried to kill the 2020 election results wont kill actual elections once back in power, this time as an actual dictator. The politico-media sucks and is either totally incapable of rising to the moment or is on Team Fascism. Probably both.
posted by WatTylerJr at 9:37 AM on July 31 [7 favorites]
I think Trump doesn't know about 2025 like he doesn't know all his children's names
posted by Jacen at 10:20 AM on July 31 [6 favorites]
posted by Jacen at 10:20 AM on July 31 [6 favorites]
Trump Just Pulled a Streisand: The rules of the Streisand Effect dictate that Project 2025 is now back in the news and a bigger story than ever. [The Status Kuo | Substack]
Dear media and Dear Democrats: Trump has signaled, in no unclear terms, that he wants to kill all stories about his connection to Project 2025. Per the inviolable rules of the Streisand Effect, you know what must happen next.posted by mazola at 10:39 AM on July 31 [12 favorites]
Here are some questions you might want to ask folks involved:Trump may have told Project 2025 not to rain on his parade. But those storm clouds were already gathering in force, and now that he’s tried to Streisand this all away, we just gotta move on it.
- Is Project 2025 still hiring and vetting personnel?
- Who controls the personnel database?
- Are Project 2025 applicants receiving any training in the “Presidential Administration Academy”?
- Does Russell Vought as RNC policy director consult regularly with Trump?
- Isn’t Vought also writing the Project 2025 playbook? Can we see a copy?
- If dozens of people are still working on the other three pillars, Project 2025 isn’t dead, right?
- And it’s still the blueprint for Trump back in office, correct?
It's probably news to a lot of voters that Trump is already in the bag of the organized big donors for permanent cultural control. This is because Trump never brags about it, though they claim influence over him. The Heritage cabal really doesn't like the spotlight because they currently sell their products to consumers without their knowledge of campaigning against their political interests, such as Coors beer.
The Heritage Foundation explained in simple terms
Heritage Action for America brags in leaked video about voter suppression being easy
posted by Brian B. at 12:04 PM on July 31 [4 favorites]
The Heritage Foundation explained in simple terms
Heritage Action for America brags in leaked video about voter suppression being easy
posted by Brian B. at 12:04 PM on July 31 [4 favorites]
Saying that Project 2025 is no longer doing policy work is sort of like saying God is no longer producing new bibles. Technically true, but misses the way in which the document exerts influence.
It’s never been about the influence of the document, it’s about the influence of the people who wrote it (and who got a little too comfortable stating what they believe). It’s simultaneously plausible that Trump didn’t know what it was and irrelevant because the actual point of Dems attacking it is that it’s his guys.
posted by atoxyl at 1:11 PM on July 31 [1 favorite]
It’s never been about the influence of the document, it’s about the influence of the people who wrote it (and who got a little too comfortable stating what they believe). It’s simultaneously plausible that Trump didn’t know what it was and irrelevant because the actual point of Dems attacking it is that it’s his guys.
posted by atoxyl at 1:11 PM on July 31 [1 favorite]
>Something something sunlight is the best disinfectant?
In my experience, a strong oxidizing agent is even better.
posted by signal
Heat, and lots of it.
posted by Pouteria at 2:48 PM on July 31 [1 favorite]
In my experience, a strong oxidizing agent is even better.
posted by signal
Heat, and lots of it.
posted by Pouteria at 2:48 PM on July 31 [1 favorite]
Something something sunlight is the best disinfectant?
In my experience, a strong oxidizing agent is even better.
Fire makes everything better.
posted by dg at 3:13 PM on July 31
In my experience, a strong oxidizing agent is even better.
Fire makes everything better.
posted by dg at 3:13 PM on July 31
To repeat Jay Kuo's take on this, the policy portion of Project 2025 is now complete. The next step is implementation.
I understand that the Trump campaign's Agenda 47 is maybe the Lite version of it.
posted by lhauser at 6:19 PM on July 31 [1 favorite]
I understand that the Trump campaign's Agenda 47 is maybe the Lite version of it.
posted by lhauser at 6:19 PM on July 31 [1 favorite]
Dude's name is actually Vought??
Is like page 666 of Project 2025 a proposal to create Compound V and baby little Homelanders?
This art imitating life thing, ouch.
---
Still holding out for VP Cori Bush or VP Stacey Abrams (I'd be thrilled to reclaim our time with VP Maxine Waters or VP Barbara Lee, but there's that whole two folx from one state dillyo to contend with).
posted by riverlife at 6:28 PM on July 31
Is like page 666 of Project 2025 a proposal to create Compound V and baby little Homelanders?
This art imitating life thing, ouch.
---
Still holding out for VP Cori Bush or VP Stacey Abrams (I'd be thrilled to reclaim our time with VP Maxine Waters or VP Barbara Lee, but there's that whole two folx from one state dillyo to contend with).
posted by riverlife at 6:28 PM on July 31
Project 2025's Key Architect on Its Radical Vision for Trump's Second Term (wsj 7/12 ;)
also btw...
-The Secret Battle for the Future of the Murdoch Empire
-Rupert Murdoch is in a 'Succession'-style rift with his kids over his media empire
posted by kliuless at 9:27 PM on July 31 [1 favorite]
also btw...
-The Secret Battle for the Future of the Murdoch Empire
-Rupert Murdoch is in a 'Succession'-style rift with his kids over his media empire
posted by kliuless at 9:27 PM on July 31 [1 favorite]
It occurs to me that, as part of a common theme when it comes to the Republican vs Democrat party as organisations, the Republican Party is both far and away more organised and, perversely, more transparent than the Democrats. Due to the publication of Project 2025, voters have a crystal clear view of the future under convicted felon Trump and there is no doubt as to what Republicans stand for. It's all laid out in stark detail, right down to timeframes and the 180-day plan to get things started. As distasteful as it is, it's comprehensive and clearly has a lot of thought put into it.
If only the Democrats could point to a similar level of organisation or thought about their policy positions and plans.
posted by dg at 10:08 PM on July 31 [5 favorites]
If only the Democrats could point to a similar level of organisation or thought about their policy positions and plans.
posted by dg at 10:08 PM on July 31 [5 favorites]
Center for American Progress's issues platform
As mentioned up thread CAP has been the idea factory for the Biden and Obama admins and will likely play a role in Harris', esp given how her stump speeches cover most of this.
posted by bl1nk at 3:24 AM on August 1 [4 favorites]
As mentioned up thread CAP has been the idea factory for the Biden and Obama admins and will likely play a role in Harris', esp given how her stump speeches cover most of this.
posted by bl1nk at 3:24 AM on August 1 [4 favorites]
I saw Heritage Foundation leader Kevin Roberts on TV say that the presence of illegal immigrants in the US is "evil".
That statement is sickening.
posted by neuron at 2:43 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]
That statement is sickening.
posted by neuron at 2:43 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]
Columbo Meme ALERT! [@billjurgensen | Mastodon]
posted by mazola at 8:12 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
posted by mazola at 8:12 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
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posted by credulous at 8:58 PM on July 30 [22 favorites]