Faster, Better, Lighter
August 1, 2024 9:43 AM Subscribe
Samsung has announced its pilot solid-state EV battery production line is now fully operational. The solid state batteries can power electric vehicles with a 600-mile range [YMMV but the range is projected to double in the same volume with less mass], charge in 9 minutes [10%-80%], and have a lifespan of 20 years.
This sounds like EXCELLENT news.
I don't actually think about batteries that much (and, like, I didn't realize that most batteries aren't solid state), but it sure seems like there's a ton of great stuff happening in battery technology that will just keep making the move to solar faster and better.
Thanks so much for this encouraging news, Mitheral!
posted by kristi at 10:07 AM on August 1 [7 favorites]
However, notable is the visible approach of all battery makers to offer longer lifespans of batteries. CATL and other battery makers have already announced batteries with 20-year lifespans, often referred to as “million-mile” batteries. Samsung’s vision to “extend the battery life to 20 years” aligns with the broader market trend.That sounds fantastic.
I don't actually think about batteries that much (and, like, I didn't realize that most batteries aren't solid state), but it sure seems like there's a ton of great stuff happening in battery technology that will just keep making the move to solar faster and better.
Thanks so much for this encouraging news, Mitheral!
posted by kristi at 10:07 AM on August 1 [7 favorites]
Big, cheap, powerful batteries are the missing piece to a full-scale switch to solar. I love how the industrial policy and research in this area keeps improving and leading to cool new businesses like SunTrain. The EV part is the least interesting thing about it!
posted by migurski at 10:17 AM on August 1 [16 favorites]
posted by migurski at 10:17 AM on August 1 [16 favorites]
The articles identify this line as "LPSO" batteries which doesn't seem like a commonly used name. is this some variant of Li-P-S-O chemistry?
The article also mentions Samsung is working on LFP batteries, lithium iron phosphate. Elsewhere there's been a lot of buzz around sodium-ion batteries, another solid state option with a much more prevalent metal than lithium.
The big news here for me is they have a working production line that's delivering usable products. There's a long span of years between research, development, and production. Not everything makes it through to an actual production line.
posted by Nelson at 10:18 AM on August 1 [18 favorites]
The article also mentions Samsung is working on LFP batteries, lithium iron phosphate. Elsewhere there's been a lot of buzz around sodium-ion batteries, another solid state option with a much more prevalent metal than lithium.
The big news here for me is they have a working production line that's delivering usable products. There's a long span of years between research, development, and production. Not everything makes it through to an actual production line.
posted by Nelson at 10:18 AM on August 1 [18 favorites]
Samsung Electronics market cap $269.40 billion
Tesla Inc market cap $693.66 billion
How long until they swap places?
posted by Lanark at 10:37 AM on August 1 [9 favorites]
Tesla Inc market cap $693.66 billion
How long until they swap places?
posted by Lanark at 10:37 AM on August 1 [9 favorites]
500Wh/kg is well into decent aircraft territory. I didn't see the cycle life mentioned though, other than the ambiguous 20-year battery thing, and there is some high price/ (probably) low cycle life competition at those energy densities.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 10:46 AM on August 1 [4 favorites]
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 10:46 AM on August 1 [4 favorites]
what's the range at 80% charge? and how long does it take to get from 80-100%?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 10:49 AM on August 1
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 10:49 AM on August 1
what's the range at 80% charge? and how long does it take to get from 80-100%?
The former is much more important than the latter, unless solid state batteries can withstand “full” charging better than existing tech.
posted by m@f at 10:56 AM on August 1 [1 favorite]
The former is much more important than the latter, unless solid state batteries can withstand “full” charging better than existing tech.
posted by m@f at 10:56 AM on August 1 [1 favorite]
I thought the Samsung article was missing half the details.
If Samsung's battery is already ready for in-vehicle testing, then shouldn't they have listed a manufacturer or two that is lined up to use them?
It's not like expense of EVs is an issue - Rolls Royce's latest EV gets less mileage than your average for $500,000. A quick googling says that BMW, Stellantis (Dodge, Fiat), Rivian currently use Samsung batteries in their EVs.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:58 AM on August 1 [2 favorites]
If Samsung's battery is already ready for in-vehicle testing, then shouldn't they have listed a manufacturer or two that is lined up to use them?
It's not like expense of EVs is an issue - Rolls Royce's latest EV gets less mileage than your average for $500,000. A quick googling says that BMW, Stellantis (Dodge, Fiat), Rivian currently use Samsung batteries in their EVs.
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:58 AM on August 1 [2 favorites]
I'm having mixed emotions about this. On the one hand, it's a great step forward in battery and EV tech. On the other hand, having rid myself of a Samsung stove, and getting annoyed on the daily with my Samsung Frame TV, I hate Samsung software and UX and can't believe they're a market leader at anything.
Now I'm imagining my EV with solid-state batteries playing an annoying 3 minute midi song when it hits 80%, and even after I download the app to my phone and create an account so I can connect to the car, I can't change it to a simple "bing", or adjust the volume.
posted by fatbird at 11:03 AM on August 1 [9 favorites]
Now I'm imagining my EV with solid-state batteries playing an annoying 3 minute midi song when it hits 80%, and even after I download the app to my phone and create an account so I can connect to the car, I can't change it to a simple "bing", or adjust the volume.
posted by fatbird at 11:03 AM on August 1 [9 favorites]
I hate that I can see so many negatives for one relatively small positive. I really want to believe that this kind of technology will save the planet and make transportation costs equitable. It's got to be better than fossil fuels, but given that it's in the corporate hands, I think we're still privatizing profits and socializing losses. What the 'first world' is going to pay for these batteries is the not the true cost of their manufacture. The nasty parts of mining and manufacturing are going to come around and bite us in the butt.
posted by BlueHorse at 11:05 AM on August 1 [4 favorites]
posted by BlueHorse at 11:05 AM on August 1 [4 favorites]
Very much hoping for some battery tech that takes us away from lithium. Sodium or some other common as dirt element would be nice.
posted by Artw at 11:29 AM on August 1 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:29 AM on August 1 [6 favorites]
leading to cool new businesses like SunTrain
Are batterry electric trains actually a thing we need? Electric trains are a solved problem, the US just doesn't want to invest in electrification.
posted by hoyland at 11:42 AM on August 1 [12 favorites]
Are batterry electric trains actually a thing we need? Electric trains are a solved problem, the US just doesn't want to invest in electrification.
posted by hoyland at 11:42 AM on August 1 [12 favorites]
I can't wait for solid state batteries to become available for ebikes and PEVs, because any improvement to the weight to watt-hour ratios and general battery health, safety and longevity would be an absolutely fantastic thing.
Good ebike batteries are very expensive and can be as much as half or more the total cost of an ebike or DIY kit, and they're only rated for like 300-500 or so total charge cycles. Having a battery with a 20 year life span would be amazing.
Solid state batteries with higher densities would also be amazing for consumer electronics ranging from phones and laptops to the individual loose cells used in things like modern/advanced flashlights.
posted by loquacious at 11:51 AM on August 1 [6 favorites]
Good ebike batteries are very expensive and can be as much as half or more the total cost of an ebike or DIY kit, and they're only rated for like 300-500 or so total charge cycles. Having a battery with a 20 year life span would be amazing.
Solid state batteries with higher densities would also be amazing for consumer electronics ranging from phones and laptops to the individual loose cells used in things like modern/advanced flashlights.
posted by loquacious at 11:51 AM on August 1 [6 favorites]
Are batterry electric trains actually a thing we need? Electric trains are a solved problem, the US just doesn't want to invest in electrification.
Sometimes that investment isn't worthwhile. Even in Japan there are diesel powered trains in more remote areas. Replacing those with battery powered ones seems like a step in the right direction.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:10 PM on August 1 [7 favorites]
Sometimes that investment isn't worthwhile. Even in Japan there are diesel powered trains in more remote areas. Replacing those with battery powered ones seems like a step in the right direction.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:10 PM on August 1 [7 favorites]
Am I seeing that there are two different stories here?
- Samsung has a fast-charging, expensive solid state battery in pilot plant production
- A Chinese research team has developed a cheap solid state battery in the lab
...so we're not talking about any solid state batteries that are all three of fast-charging, in production, and cheap?
posted by clawsoon at 12:10 PM on August 1 [2 favorites]
- Samsung has a fast-charging, expensive solid state battery in pilot plant production
- A Chinese research team has developed a cheap solid state battery in the lab
...so we're not talking about any solid state batteries that are all three of fast-charging, in production, and cheap?
posted by clawsoon at 12:10 PM on August 1 [2 favorites]
> If Samsung's battery is already ready for in-vehicle testing, then shouldn't they have listed a manufacturer or two that is lined up to use them?
TFA says that Samsung started building a pilot production line last year, which is supposed to be all-up in 2027. For presumably rather limited quantities of batteries. Which presumably will find their way into EV R&D efforts when they can be bought.
Don't get ahead of your skis.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 12:19 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]
TFA says that Samsung started building a pilot production line last year, which is supposed to be all-up in 2027. For presumably rather limited quantities of batteries. Which presumably will find their way into EV R&D efforts when they can be bought.
Don't get ahead of your skis.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 12:19 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]
...so we're not talking about any solid state batteries that are all three of fast-charging, in production, and cheap?
That is correct, we are not.
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:32 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]
That is correct, we are not.
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:32 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]
TFA says that Samsung started building a pilot production line last year, which is supposed to be all-up in 2027. For presumably rather limited quantities of batteries.The article isn't worded super clearly, but I don't think this is quite right. Pilot-scale production is already up and running (and customers have received test samples). 2027 is the target date for actual mass production.
posted by kickingtheground at 12:41 PM on August 1 [4 favorites]
is this some variant of Li-P-S-O chemistry?
In spite of the high conductivity displayed by LGPS, the large concentration of germanium
makes this material expensive for widespread applications. Researchers have explored the
replacement of germanium by other elements of the IVa group like tin, with potential to
reduce the raw material cost by a factor of 3, or silicon... In a full solid-state battery, synthetized LPSO exhibits higher performance than Li10GeP2S12 [sciencedirect]
posted by HearHere at 12:46 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]
In spite of the high conductivity displayed by LGPS, the large concentration of germanium
makes this material expensive for widespread applications. Researchers have explored the
replacement of germanium by other elements of the IVa group like tin, with potential to
reduce the raw material cost by a factor of 3, or silicon... In a full solid-state battery, synthetized LPSO exhibits higher performance than Li10GeP2S12 [sciencedirect]
posted by HearHere at 12:46 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]
Are batterry electric trains actually a thing we need? Electric trains are a solved problem, the US just doesn't want to invest in electrification.They aren’t battery-powered trains, they are a service that moves charged batteries from solar farms to places that need power. It’s the station-wagon-full-of-hard-drives strategy but for replacing long-distance transmission lines with existing rail connections!
posted by migurski at 1:08 PM on August 1 [17 favorites]
Form Energy in Ma (next to where I skate:) is finishing up a new plant in Georgia for grid batteries not using Lithium. A process that uses iron and basically energizes rust.
posted by sammyo at 1:11 PM on August 1 [6 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 1:11 PM on August 1 [6 favorites]
Samsung makes the components in many other brands products, their line of TV's are just another integration and a separate division from their real moneymaker, the manufacturing.
I've long thought the big breakthroughs in batteries, self driving, etc are going to come from one of the big boring Korean or Japanese industrial manufacturers,like Mitsubishi, Samsung, Hyundai or Honda. They make a ton of manufacturing equipment that really drives innovation in computer vision, even if it's less flashy than teslas nonsense.
posted by kzin602 at 1:15 PM on August 1 [4 favorites]
I look forward to home solar storage having a non-Elon option.
posted by funkaspuck at 1:16 PM on August 1 [9 favorites]
posted by funkaspuck at 1:16 PM on August 1 [9 favorites]
so we're not talking about any solid state batteries that are all three of fast-charging, in production, and cheap?
And Samsung is saying the batteries will be for the premium EV market first so even once it is in production, the batteries won't be cheap for a while.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:20 PM on August 1
And Samsung is saying the batteries will be for the premium EV market first so even once it is in production, the batteries won't be cheap for a while.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:20 PM on August 1
I look forward to home solar storage having a non-Elon option.
Right here, the handy dandy HandyBob website! Effective strategies to live off the grid.
posted by sammyo at 1:21 PM on August 1 [4 favorites]
Right here, the handy dandy HandyBob website! Effective strategies to live off the grid.
posted by sammyo at 1:21 PM on August 1 [4 favorites]
Dang. Assuming this isn't the usual hype (and if they've got a production line it might not be) they're talking energy density that's on part with gasoline. You could actually feasably make airplanes with that kind of battery.
Even if it's expensive, well, the airplane market is a prime candidate because they can afford a high up front cost for lower operating costs. Imagine the reduced maintenance costs alone!
The article didn't say, but I wonder if they're looking at prices dropping as the tech becomes more mature?
posted by sotonohito at 1:46 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]
Even if it's expensive, well, the airplane market is a prime candidate because they can afford a high up front cost for lower operating costs. Imagine the reduced maintenance costs alone!
The article didn't say, but I wonder if they're looking at prices dropping as the tech becomes more mature?
posted by sotonohito at 1:46 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]
Assuming this isn't the usual hype (and if they've got a production line it might not be) they're talking energy density that's on part with gasoline.
Not even close. Samsung is saying 500 Wh/kg for these batteries. If they actually achieve that, gasoline and Jet A are still more than 20 times more energy dense. There are some efficiency improvements going from jet engines to presumably some kind of electric motor powered prop, but they are much, much smaller than 20 to 1.
posted by ssg at 2:16 PM on August 1 [6 favorites]
Not even close. Samsung is saying 500 Wh/kg for these batteries. If they actually achieve that, gasoline and Jet A are still more than 20 times more energy dense. There are some efficiency improvements going from jet engines to presumably some kind of electric motor powered prop, but they are much, much smaller than 20 to 1.
posted by ssg at 2:16 PM on August 1 [6 favorites]
It would be nice if you could retrofit older electric cars with these new batteries.
posted by luckynerd at 2:48 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]
posted by luckynerd at 2:48 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]
Once the individual cells become widely available I don't doubt we will see retrofit kits for Prius and Leaf, as well as Model S. It will also take the classics retrofit market by storm. Due to demand however, vailability will be an issue for a while yet.
posted by CynicalKnight at 3:04 PM on August 1 [2 favorites]
posted by CynicalKnight at 3:04 PM on August 1 [2 favorites]
Ma (next to where I skate:) is finishing up a new plant in Georgia for grid batteries not using Lithium. A process that uses iron and basically energizes rust.
Grid storage, not being limited by weight or (practically) volume has a lot of other options available to them. Some wild like using liquid sodium.
the station-wagon-full-of-hard-drives strategy but for replacing long-distance transmission lines with existing rail connections!
I setup a lot of big generators often for back up power during planned service interruptions. It's weird to think that one day instead off dropping off a 500 kW generator in a container we'll just drop off a container full of batteries.
To a certain extent we are already there in the camping market. I can buy a portable battery bank that'll run my cooler fridge, electronics, lights, fan, etc.
posted by Mitheral at 4:04 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]
Grid storage, not being limited by weight or (practically) volume has a lot of other options available to them. Some wild like using liquid sodium.
the station-wagon-full-of-hard-drives strategy but for replacing long-distance transmission lines with existing rail connections!
I setup a lot of big generators often for back up power during planned service interruptions. It's weird to think that one day instead off dropping off a 500 kW generator in a container we'll just drop off a container full of batteries.
To a certain extent we are already there in the camping market. I can buy a portable battery bank that'll run my cooler fridge, electronics, lights, fan, etc.
posted by Mitheral at 4:04 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]
@migurski - Suntrain actually isn't an electric train, it's a train full of batteries, carrying stored energy from a production hub to a consumption area. Which is actually not a terrible idea when you pencil out the math. They've done a (very limited) pilot at the port of Oakland.
It's the same idea as the old joke about a 747 full of magnetic tape, but for stored energy... why not make the rail network part of the grid?
posted by graphweaver at 4:22 PM on August 1 [5 favorites]
It's the same idea as the old joke about a 747 full of magnetic tape, but for stored energy... why not make the rail network part of the grid?
posted by graphweaver at 4:22 PM on August 1 [5 favorites]
(@migurski, gah, sorry, missed your reply upstream, carry on!)
posted by graphweaver at 4:24 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]
posted by graphweaver at 4:24 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]
Having a battery with a 20 year life span would be amazing.
The cynic in me wants to believe that they will work very hard to make sure the batteries don't last that long.... except for the influence of the airline industry. More than anyone else, they have a vested interest in their hardware lasting as long as possible as the margins for their business model are quite thin and they have a lot of buying power.
posted by CynicalKnight at 8:07 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]
The cynic in me wants to believe that they will work very hard to make sure the batteries don't last that long.... except for the influence of the airline industry. More than anyone else, they have a vested interest in their hardware lasting as long as possible as the margins for their business model are quite thin and they have a lot of buying power.
posted by CynicalKnight at 8:07 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]
it's a train full of batteries, carrying stored energy from a production hub to a consumption area
That just sounds like a bomb with extra steps.
posted by Ryvar at 10:48 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]
That just sounds like a bomb with extra steps.
posted by Ryvar at 10:48 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]
Please, please please don’t sell them to Tesla. Anyone but Tesla.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 3:47 AM on August 2 [4 favorites]
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 3:47 AM on August 2 [4 favorites]
That just sounds like a bomb with extra steps.
So is a train full of coal, or a train of oil tank cars.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:20 AM on August 2 [8 favorites]
So is a train full of coal, or a train of oil tank cars.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:20 AM on August 2 [8 favorites]
> It’s the station-wagon-full-of-hard-drives strategy...
Sorry I have to show my age here and correct you. That's a station wagon full of backup tapes.
At the time the phrase was coined, a typical hard-drive unit was about the size of a domestic washing machine and had a capacity of 10-20Mb. You couldn't fit one into a station wagon, but maybe you could carry 4 in a pickup truck.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 6:28 AM on August 2 [4 favorites]
Sorry I have to show my age here and correct you. That's a station wagon full of backup tapes.
At the time the phrase was coined, a typical hard-drive unit was about the size of a domestic washing machine and had a capacity of 10-20Mb. You couldn't fit one into a station wagon, but maybe you could carry 4 in a pickup truck.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 6:28 AM on August 2 [4 favorites]
The cynic in me wants to believe that they will work very hard to make sure the batteries don't last that long.... except for the influence of the airline industry.
So what's the deal with electric planes? Air travel makes up like 2% of global CO2 emissions, the MTA in New York carries more people daily than all US airports combined.
Cars and your home use far more electricity than planes. That's the bigger use cases. By the time we get to electric planes, we will be siting pretty, energy wise.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:12 AM on August 2 [1 favorite]
So what's the deal with electric planes? Air travel makes up like 2% of global CO2 emissions, the MTA in New York carries more people daily than all US airports combined.
Cars and your home use far more electricity than planes. That's the bigger use cases. By the time we get to electric planes, we will be siting pretty, energy wise.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:12 AM on August 2 [1 favorite]
It's gotta be really hard deciding when to pick a technology in this market that's ready to ramp up to prroduction when a year or two later your competitors could be producing a differently-designed battery that's significant better and/or cheaper.
posted by straight at 7:48 AM on August 2 [2 favorites]
posted by straight at 7:48 AM on August 2 [2 favorites]
I can believe the range and the lifespan. The fast charge times, not so convinced. Want to see some independent testing for that claim. Fast charge times will seal the deal for EVs displacing ICEs for transport applications.
On the other hand, having rid myself of a Samsung stove, and getting annoyed on the daily with my Samsung Frame TV, I hate Samsung software and UX and can't believe they're a market leader at anything.
posted by fatbird
They make decent solid-state drives.
posted by Pouteria at 4:35 PM on August 2
On the other hand, having rid myself of a Samsung stove, and getting annoyed on the daily with my Samsung Frame TV, I hate Samsung software and UX and can't believe they're a market leader at anything.
posted by fatbird
They make decent solid-state drives.
posted by Pouteria at 4:35 PM on August 2
They make decent solid-state drives.
Only because they can't add a trill when a write or a read is successful.
posted by fatbird at 6:40 PM on August 2
Only because they can't add a trill when a write or a read is successful.
posted by fatbird at 6:40 PM on August 2
So what's the deal with electric planes? Air travel makes up like 2% of global CO2 emissions, the MTA in New York carries more people daily than all US airports combined.I think it’s because air travel is still seen as quasi-elite, so it’s both a safe distraction for the fossil fuel PR teams and way to divert attention from how unsustainable the average American lifestyle is. If you talk about electric trains and buses, the first question is why we aren’t deploying century-old technology now and that makes people uncomfortable. If you talk about electric planes, that means nobody changes anything at all for decades – similar to how the fossil fuel mouthpieces like to advocate for hydrogen and nuclear to protect their profits.
posted by adamsc at 7:19 PM on August 2
Only because they can't add a trill when a write or a read is successful.
What is a trill?
posted by Pouteria at 7:20 PM on August 2
What is a trill?
posted by Pouteria at 7:20 PM on August 2
There is a good case for electric planes now using the wing-in-ground effect, or ground effect, which is easiest over water. The plane utilizes an air cushion (vortex) between the wing and the water with most costs and fuel requirements greatly reduced. Forty percent of the world's population live on or near the coasts, so this kind of travel would be similar to high speed trains with boat-style docking. The US military dreams big on this method even without electric power, and there is a lot of pioneering dating back to the Soviets who had a bureau dedicated to its development. The downside is that they might hit a boat or a big wave, but anti-collision detection technology reduces the need for pilot vigilance.
posted by Brian B. at 9:42 PM on August 2 [1 favorite]
posted by Brian B. at 9:42 PM on August 2 [1 favorite]
There is a good case for electric planes now using the wing-in-ground effect, or ground effect, which is easiest over water.That’s a hovercraft, not a plane, and they’re careful not to position it as a plane because taking 12 people up to 180 miles at 180mph is not replacing most plane flights. It could be a good alternative to ferries, but outside of island travel in most cases what you want is an electric train which can carry 1-2 orders of magnitude more passengers longer distances at lower cost.
posted by adamsc at 5:17 AM on August 3
That’s a hovercraft, not a plane, and they’re careful not to position it as a plane because taking 12 people up to 180 miles at 180mph is not replacing most plane flights. It could be a good alternative to ferries, but outside of island travel in most cases what you want is an electric train which can carry 1-2 orders of magnitude more passengers longer distances at lower cost.
It can fly higher to hop obstacles, but its efficiency with extra wingspan (like lake birds) is to stay in the effect zone, and all planes experience the ground effect at takeoff and landing. Sea planes were the original airlines. The cost savings of a GEV (ground effect vehicle) is in the structure and certification of holding fuel with cabin pressurization and flying long distance without water landing capabilities. It can take over five years per design of jet liners. The train comparison is good because it compares costs, which for high speed trains is close to 100 million dollars per mile to construct, and though people like to imagine it solves long distances, it usually rules it out. Trains are ideal for freight and short distance commuting inland. Jamming trains full of people is actually the headache for rail designers, because its a cost thing to cover the billions in track construction. There is no limit to how many passengers can ride GEVs if demand was there, and if not, then all the better.
posted by Brian B. at 9:17 AM on August 3 [1 favorite]
It can fly higher to hop obstacles, but its efficiency with extra wingspan (like lake birds) is to stay in the effect zone, and all planes experience the ground effect at takeoff and landing. Sea planes were the original airlines. The cost savings of a GEV (ground effect vehicle) is in the structure and certification of holding fuel with cabin pressurization and flying long distance without water landing capabilities. It can take over five years per design of jet liners. The train comparison is good because it compares costs, which for high speed trains is close to 100 million dollars per mile to construct, and though people like to imagine it solves long distances, it usually rules it out. Trains are ideal for freight and short distance commuting inland. Jamming trains full of people is actually the headache for rail designers, because its a cost thing to cover the billions in track construction. There is no limit to how many passengers can ride GEVs if demand was there, and if not, then all the better.
posted by Brian B. at 9:17 AM on August 3 [1 favorite]
Ekranoplan vs Dirigible: fight!
posted by Nelson at 10:34 AM on August 3 [1 favorite]
posted by Nelson at 10:34 AM on August 3 [1 favorite]
So what's the deal with electric planes?
I am suggesting that the airline industry, irregardless of it's current contribution to carbon emissions, will have little tolerance for the type of manufactured obsolescence we should anticipate from electric car battery manufacturers, and that will hopefully cause a competitive ripple-up effect in battery longevity across applications.
posted by CynicalKnight at 2:37 PM on August 3 [1 favorite]
I am suggesting that the airline industry, irregardless of it's current contribution to carbon emissions, will have little tolerance for the type of manufactured obsolescence we should anticipate from electric car battery manufacturers, and that will hopefully cause a competitive ripple-up effect in battery longevity across applications.
posted by CynicalKnight at 2:37 PM on August 3 [1 favorite]
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