Insta-fake
August 8, 2024 5:14 PM Subscribe
(CW: Suicide) The only thing as fascinating as opulent wealth is its sudden disintegration Candice and Brandon Miller showed the public a world of glittering parties and vacations. The money to sustain it did not exist.
In the modern Gilded Age of New York, where Instagram is awash in unrestrained displays of wealth, Brandon and Candice Miller were royalty.
At their 10th wedding anniversary “Midsummer Night’s Dream” party, they celebrated with a few dozen friends in the backyard of their 5,500-square-foot vacation home in the Hamptons.
Beautiful women in gowns watched with their handsome husbands as the couple renewed their vows near a swimming pool strewn with peonies and rose petals beneath a canopy of lights.
It all culminated in the kind of envy-inducing images anticipated by the roughly 80,000 followers of “Mama and Tata,” Ms. Miller’s popular Instagram feed, which featured a near-constant stream of photographs and videos of her glittering life.
The Midsummer Night party was in 2019. Five years later, the glamorous image that Ms. Miller cultivated and promoted has disappeared, replaced with heartbreak, anger and a mountain of once-secret debt.
Her husband is gone. The home they so ostentatiously lived in, saddled by several mortgages, is not truly their own. Lawsuits from creditors, business bankruptcies, botched investments and even a repossessed boat — the “Miller Time” — indicate that the wealth needed to maintain their lifestyle had evaporated, if it ever truly existed.
In the modern Gilded Age of New York, where Instagram is awash in unrestrained displays of wealth, Brandon and Candice Miller were royalty.
At their 10th wedding anniversary “Midsummer Night’s Dream” party, they celebrated with a few dozen friends in the backyard of their 5,500-square-foot vacation home in the Hamptons.
Beautiful women in gowns watched with their handsome husbands as the couple renewed their vows near a swimming pool strewn with peonies and rose petals beneath a canopy of lights.
It all culminated in the kind of envy-inducing images anticipated by the roughly 80,000 followers of “Mama and Tata,” Ms. Miller’s popular Instagram feed, which featured a near-constant stream of photographs and videos of her glittering life.
The Midsummer Night party was in 2019. Five years later, the glamorous image that Ms. Miller cultivated and promoted has disappeared, replaced with heartbreak, anger and a mountain of once-secret debt.
Her husband is gone. The home they so ostentatiously lived in, saddled by several mortgages, is not truly their own. Lawsuits from creditors, business bankruptcies, botched investments and even a repossessed boat — the “Miller Time” — indicate that the wealth needed to maintain their lifestyle had evaporated, if it ever truly existed.
Grim shit. I genuinely believe she had no idea, but she'll have to live with the fallout. I feel for their little girls, who surely would give literally every gilded-age trapping of their little lives, every over-the-top birthday party and extravagant vacation, to have their father back.
posted by potrzebie at 5:37 PM on August 8 [19 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 5:37 PM on August 8 [19 favorites]
This is terrible, but I don't understand how people don't see this happening at the time. I am so freaking lucky that my (very modest) house is almost paid off, and my spouse and I can currently afford to pay for our kid's college tuition. Maybe, just maybe, we'll soon be able to tackle some of the deferred maintenance we've put off. But I still feel like we're one disaster (that we almost just had with my spouse's job) away from being in a very precarious situation in short order. So many people seem to be willing to overlook what can happen to let the good times roll when they're one paycheck away from disaster. To be clear, I'm talking about the people who have a huge house, expensive cars, and maybe put their kids in private school, too. But being in Central New Jersey, it's hard not to look around at the houses and cars I see and wonder how precarious everyone is when they shouldn't be.
posted by mollweide at 6:05 PM on August 8 [9 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 6:05 PM on August 8 [9 favorites]
I think once your family's financial landscape gets complex enough it's not difficult to fall into a "there's always something to sell, if things get really dire we'll just liquidate some stock or real estate" mindset. And then the shit hits the fan, you sell all that stuff, you probably get less for it than you thought you would, and one day there's nothing else you can sell and you're still not making ends meet.
posted by potrzebie at 6:29 PM on August 8 [12 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 6:29 PM on August 8 [12 favorites]
NYT seems to really want to frame this story to be about Instagram and the need to ostentatiously display wealth there driving a financial doom spiral, but it doesn’t really seem to be sustained by the actual article. I’m not on Instagram, but 80,000 followers doesn’t jump out as superstar celebrity.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:38 PM on August 8 [35 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 6:38 PM on August 8 [35 favorites]
In the modern Gilded Age of New York, where Instagram is awash in unrestrained displays of wealth
quite a hard read. I was just reading Fitzgerald's The Last Kiss, though L.A., it feels right yet no.
"it was a fine pure feeling to be on top. one was very sure that everything was for the best. that the lights Shone upon the fair ladies and brave men, that pianos dripped the right notes and that the young lips singing them spoke for happy hearts. all those beautiful faces, for instance, must be absolutely happy.
and then in the twilit rhumba, a face pass Jim's table that was not quite happy."
posted by clavdivs at 6:44 PM on August 8 [12 favorites]
quite a hard read. I was just reading Fitzgerald's The Last Kiss, though L.A., it feels right yet no.
"it was a fine pure feeling to be on top. one was very sure that everything was for the best. that the lights Shone upon the fair ladies and brave men, that pianos dripped the right notes and that the young lips singing them spoke for happy hearts. all those beautiful faces, for instance, must be absolutely happy.
and then in the twilit rhumba, a face pass Jim's table that was not quite happy."
posted by clavdivs at 6:44 PM on August 8 [12 favorites]
I guess that's what I'm saying. I feel like a lot people are probably in this position without the Instagram followers and nobody bats an eye that so many people are so out over their skis.
posted by mollweide at 6:45 PM on August 8 [2 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 6:45 PM on August 8 [2 favorites]
The article almost feels like it's trying to blame Mrs Miller's desire for an extravagant lifestyle lived through Instagram for their financial woes. But really, it's just another 'businessman' who got in over his head, refused to see the reality of his situation and refused to make the decisions he needed to make that would have left them in a financial position nearly anyone would envy, but would prohibit the flashy lifestyle they were never really able to afford.
Maybe he just loved his wife so much that he wasn't willing to rein in her spending or thought she wouldn't love him anymore if he couldn't support her in the way he thought she wanted. I can understand someone feeling like that and feeling like there was no option left but to give her the insurance money so she could continue to live that ostentatious lifestyle. The truth is more likely that she genuinely had no idea of the true state of their finances and assumed they were living within their means, but would have happily cut back if she had known and if that meant she kept her husband and their daughters kept their father. I guess it's easy to label such behaviour as toxic masculinity, but it doesn't really matter. He's gone and isn't coming back, which is a tragedy on every level.
posted by dg at 6:55 PM on August 8 [18 favorites]
Maybe he just loved his wife so much that he wasn't willing to rein in her spending or thought she wouldn't love him anymore if he couldn't support her in the way he thought she wanted. I can understand someone feeling like that and feeling like there was no option left but to give her the insurance money so she could continue to live that ostentatious lifestyle. The truth is more likely that she genuinely had no idea of the true state of their finances and assumed they were living within their means, but would have happily cut back if she had known and if that meant she kept her husband and their daughters kept their father. I guess it's easy to label such behaviour as toxic masculinity, but it doesn't really matter. He's gone and isn't coming back, which is a tragedy on every level.
posted by dg at 6:55 PM on August 8 [18 favorites]
Yeah, my wife knows exactly what our accounts look like. If she was incurious, I have no sympathy. If he withheld information from her, he's an asshole. And if they both knew the score and kept it up for optics, I'm still unsympathetic. Too many of us live close enough to the edge as it is.
posted by lhauser at 7:04 PM on August 8 [5 favorites]
posted by lhauser at 7:04 PM on August 8 [5 favorites]
There's definitely a script for these hate-read sagas that was molded around Anna Delvey and Billy McFarland. Three act plays that you start after the fall from grace, where the subject sits amidst the wreckage of their sand castles, then rewind to talk about how they became a hustler and got away with it for a little bit, before it all comes crashing down in lawsuits and fraud charges. The audience gets to be all "how dare they flaunt these nouveau riche lifestyles?" "all that conspicuous consumption invites bad karma" and then feel smug when that karma arrives.
But it doesn't quite work if the stories are genuinely tragic and there are kids involved. Precarity can come for any of us.
posted by bl1nk at 7:09 PM on August 8 [18 favorites]
But it doesn't quite work if the stories are genuinely tragic and there are kids involved. Precarity can come for any of us.
posted by bl1nk at 7:09 PM on August 8 [18 favorites]
Precarity can come for any of us.
Yeah. I wish more people understood that.
posted by mollweide at 7:16 PM on August 8 [16 favorites]
Yeah. I wish more people understood that.
posted by mollweide at 7:16 PM on August 8 [16 favorites]
This scenario isn't what I think of when I hear precarity.
posted by 2N2222 at 7:58 PM on August 8 [10 favorites]
posted by 2N2222 at 7:58 PM on August 8 [10 favorites]
This scenario isn't what I think of when I hear precarity.
I'm not saying this, or even my example, is a great example of that. But plenty of people are actually precarious when they don't think they are, and this world would be a better place if more people actually realized that.
posted by mollweide at 8:11 PM on August 8 [5 favorites]
I'm not saying this, or even my example, is a great example of that. But plenty of people are actually precarious when they don't think they are, and this world would be a better place if more people actually realized that.
posted by mollweide at 8:11 PM on August 8 [5 favorites]
This sounds like a variation of a story that could certainly have occurred anytime since the 1920s, and probably well before that. It's just that today there's Instagram, whereas before there was only gossip and in some cases the society pages. (As someone perceptively wrote on Instagram last month, there's nothing new under the sun.)
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:42 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:42 PM on August 8 [3 favorites]
When I read this article earlier today I didn’t get the point of why they published it. There wasn’t obvious criminal activity going on, the guy just wasn’t paying his (big) bills. The woman had social media accounts flaunting a flashy life style. He kills himself when he seems to be beyond hope of continuing to support her. Is the NYT trying to prove a point about people who live beyond their means? I’d be more interested in reading an investigative piece on how real assholes who have made millions preying on vulnerable people are going down in flames.
posted by waving at 8:47 PM on August 8 [20 favorites]
posted by waving at 8:47 PM on August 8 [20 favorites]
Yeah, my wife knows exactly what our accounts look like. If she was incurious, I have no sympathy. If he withheld information from her, he's an asshole.
It's not a domestic arrangement that would ever, ever work for me, and it's not one I'd ever recommend to a woman friend if asked, but I really don't see what's inherently awful about it if that is the division of household labor the couple genuinely prefers.
This one was a bit of a misfire for me, too, in that "royalty" is rather an overstatement, so that it all just ends up feeling sad (with the suicide, it would be sad anyway, but there might be more complex feelings). I'm sorry for the little girls, for sure.
posted by praemunire at 8:59 PM on August 8 [6 favorites]
It's not a domestic arrangement that would ever, ever work for me, and it's not one I'd ever recommend to a woman friend if asked, but I really don't see what's inherently awful about it if that is the division of household labor the couple genuinely prefers.
This one was a bit of a misfire for me, too, in that "royalty" is rather an overstatement, so that it all just ends up feeling sad (with the suicide, it would be sad anyway, but there might be more complex feelings). I'm sorry for the little girls, for sure.
posted by praemunire at 8:59 PM on August 8 [6 favorites]
" In 2021, near the bottom of the pandemic market, he sold the family’s TriBeCa home for just over $9 million, according to city records."
Just that sum alone would've been enough for the couple to live an above-average middle class lifestyle for the rest of their days. It's a shame they couldn't let go of the high life and remained in denial about their ability to keep up appearances.
posted by xigxag at 9:17 PM on August 8 [12 favorites]
Just that sum alone would've been enough for the couple to live an above-average middle class lifestyle for the rest of their days. It's a shame they couldn't let go of the high life and remained in denial about their ability to keep up appearances.
posted by xigxag at 9:17 PM on August 8 [12 favorites]
Yes, but I get the impression that the business already had a lot more than that in debt, so it's not really as if they just could have kept the $9 million and retired.
posted by inexorably_forward at 9:47 PM on August 8 [5 favorites]
posted by inexorably_forward at 9:47 PM on August 8 [5 favorites]
Opulent wealth isn't fascinating. It is disgusting and vapid and infuriating.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:51 PM on August 8 [23 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:51 PM on August 8 [23 favorites]
I'm not saying this, or even my example, is a great example of that. But plenty of people are actually precarious when they don't think they are, and this world would be a better place if more people actually realized that.
OK, plenty of people, but I'm reluctant to describe this scenario that way. And specifically, it seems Miller knew perfectly well how dire his situation was becoming and and simply couldn't stop himself from digging deeper, for whatever reason was ticking in his mind. Miller wasn't plenty of people. I've known many people living in precarious situations, myself included, who were never close to juggling seven figure sums to save a boat and 5,000 sq ft dwellings. It's a pity, but it really seems he couldn't stomach the notion of his family living like regular folk, to fatal fault.
posted by 2N2222 at 10:17 PM on August 8 [5 favorites]
OK, plenty of people, but I'm reluctant to describe this scenario that way. And specifically, it seems Miller knew perfectly well how dire his situation was becoming and and simply couldn't stop himself from digging deeper, for whatever reason was ticking in his mind. Miller wasn't plenty of people. I've known many people living in precarious situations, myself included, who were never close to juggling seven figure sums to save a boat and 5,000 sq ft dwellings. It's a pity, but it really seems he couldn't stomach the notion of his family living like regular folk, to fatal fault.
posted by 2N2222 at 10:17 PM on August 8 [5 favorites]
This is curiuous story to me. It missed on most points. The instagram focus at the beginning is odd and misleading, and then they never really say what the guy was doing with all his money (like how was he failing so badly?). And then it’s all just gone and he’s dead. And all the focus on the wife’s instagram feels a lot weirder and a bit vindictive.
posted by teece303 at 11:11 PM on August 8 [8 favorites]
posted by teece303 at 11:11 PM on August 8 [8 favorites]
Not really a unique phenomenon ("I'm up to my eyeballs in debt") but the suicide definitely takes it to a very dark place.
I'm also not aware of any life insurance policy that pays out in the event of suicide, because it encourages exactly this sort of outcome.
posted by pwnguin at 11:30 PM on August 8 [2 favorites]
I'm also not aware of any life insurance policy that pays out in the event of suicide, because it encourages exactly this sort of outcome.
posted by pwnguin at 11:30 PM on August 8 [2 favorites]
Actually almost all life insurance pays out in the case of suicide, after a waiting period of (usually) 2 years. Accidental death policies will not, but your standard life insurance policy will. (Source: I’m an actuary who works in life insurance)
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:11 AM on August 9 [37 favorites]
posted by LizBoBiz at 12:11 AM on August 9 [37 favorites]
This is just an impression, but maybe the house was the big expense compared to the lifestyle.
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 2:14 AM on August 9
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 2:14 AM on August 9
Nouveau riche clearly. You won't find the 400 (historic NYC upper crust) with Instagram accounts. They abhor ostentatiousness. Sad for the children of course.
posted by Czjewel at 3:01 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]
posted by Czjewel at 3:01 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]
NYT seems to really want to frame this story to be about Instagram and the need to ostentatiously display wealth there driving a financial doom spiral, but it doesn’t really seem to be sustained by the actual article. I’m not on Instagram, but 80,000 followers doesn’t jump out as superstar celebrity.
I know people with accounts in the 20-40k range who are 100% making decisions based on the idea of getting to 500k plus followers. The premise is - make their content stand out so that down the road, sponsors and other revenue streams will be attracted to partner with them AND to get VIP invitations to social events in our community. One woman in particular is open about the fact she went on three lavish vacations this year, all on credit cards, and her only plan to pay them off is future success. But she did get VIP access to a local music festival to share her experience so, in her eyes, it’s working.
So I do see from their content very similar vibes of sharing for the purpose of chasing more clout. It’s not the main through line I’d pick for the article but in my opinion it’s part of something broader that is absolutely happening.
posted by openhearted at 3:20 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]
I know people with accounts in the 20-40k range who are 100% making decisions based on the idea of getting to 500k plus followers. The premise is - make their content stand out so that down the road, sponsors and other revenue streams will be attracted to partner with them AND to get VIP invitations to social events in our community. One woman in particular is open about the fact she went on three lavish vacations this year, all on credit cards, and her only plan to pay them off is future success. But she did get VIP access to a local music festival to share her experience so, in her eyes, it’s working.
So I do see from their content very similar vibes of sharing for the purpose of chasing more clout. It’s not the main through line I’d pick for the article but in my opinion it’s part of something broader that is absolutely happening.
posted by openhearted at 3:20 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]
Instead, they rented a 4,382-square-foot, five-bedroom apartment on the corner of Park Avenue and East 71st Street, according to court records — keeping up appearances for $47,000 per month. They decorated with rented furniture for which they paid $180,000 for one year, according to a lawsuit filed this spring, and $12,000 per month after the first year.
lol. I cannot imagine that Ms. Miller decorated (or hired decorators) and RENTED furniture knowing they cannot afford to buy. Renting furniture? What?!?! Renting an apartment...how pedestrian.
By the fall of 2023, Mr. Miller could no longer hide the strain. His friends, aware of both his family’s expensive lifestyle and the sluggish real estate market, assumed he was struggling with debt.
Three of them arranged an intervention of sorts, according to three people familiar with the meeting.
Ok. So his friends knew, but not his wife. Sounds legit.
Although his friends could sense something was wrong, Ms. Miller has said she was unaware of the family’s financial crisis, according to two people familiar with her thinking.
This reads to me like someone still trying to somehow maintaining their clout for a comeback. It also reminds me of one of the ending scenes of Breaking Bad when the bad guy claimed his wife didn't know anything about their situation so that she wouldn't get busted.
I don't understand this NYT, am I supposed to feel bad for this family who I would have eaten when the revolution comes?
Will they end up living like the poors...like us?
I did a bit of googling and found this, which paints the situation a bit differently than The NY Times does.
I feel sorry for the daughters that have had a parent "leave". ugh.
posted by hal_cy_on at 3:24 AM on August 9 [7 favorites]
lol. I cannot imagine that Ms. Miller decorated (or hired decorators) and RENTED furniture knowing they cannot afford to buy. Renting furniture? What?!?! Renting an apartment...how pedestrian.
By the fall of 2023, Mr. Miller could no longer hide the strain. His friends, aware of both his family’s expensive lifestyle and the sluggish real estate market, assumed he was struggling with debt.
Three of them arranged an intervention of sorts, according to three people familiar with the meeting.
Ok. So his friends knew, but not his wife. Sounds legit.
Although his friends could sense something was wrong, Ms. Miller has said she was unaware of the family’s financial crisis, according to two people familiar with her thinking.
This reads to me like someone still trying to somehow maintaining their clout for a comeback. It also reminds me of one of the ending scenes of Breaking Bad when the bad guy claimed his wife didn't know anything about their situation so that she wouldn't get busted.
I don't understand this NYT, am I supposed to feel bad for this family who I would have eaten when the revolution comes?
Will they end up living like the poors...like us?
I did a bit of googling and found this, which paints the situation a bit differently than The NY Times does.
I feel sorry for the daughters that have had a parent "leave". ugh.
posted by hal_cy_on at 3:24 AM on August 9 [7 favorites]
The account highlighted people in Ms. Miller’s orbit, like Ivanka Trump
That's not helping establish sympathy.
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:31 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]
That's not helping establish sympathy.
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:31 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]
hal_cy_on thanks for that reddit link. I've been wrestling with this article since I read it yesterday morning, even if they are the sort of people I'd normally give a wide berth to, it made me sad. But also wondering why the NYT felt it was newsworthy, unless they thought they couldn't ignore Hamptons gossip? How could someone in real estate get themselves into a situation where they are paying $47,000 a month rent? Am I being manipulated into feeling grateful for my humble lifestyle? Why am I thinking about it this much?
posted by maggiemaggie at 4:43 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]
posted by maggiemaggie at 4:43 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]
also wondering why the NYT felt it was newsworthy
nyt is, i think, very narrative driven, more than anything else. relevancy takes a back seat to how compelling a narrative is; even accuracy at times doesn't rise to great importance, as evidenced by their coverage of trans issues, this election season and quite a bit more. this particular story hits a lot of classic rich new yorker notes and evokes richard cory/f scott fitzgerald elements. perfect for the times
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:01 AM on August 9 [3 favorites]
nyt is, i think, very narrative driven, more than anything else. relevancy takes a back seat to how compelling a narrative is; even accuracy at times doesn't rise to great importance, as evidenced by their coverage of trans issues, this election season and quite a bit more. this particular story hits a lot of classic rich new yorker notes and evokes richard cory/f scott fitzgerald elements. perfect for the times
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 5:01 AM on August 9 [3 favorites]
This kind of irresponsible spending is why I'm against government welfare programs that give money to rich people.
posted by AlSweigart at 5:24 AM on August 9 [20 favorites]
posted by AlSweigart at 5:24 AM on August 9 [20 favorites]
> But also wondering why the NYT felt it was newsworthy
I think in addition to being a national newspaper, NYT is also the gossip rag for a certain social set based in the NYC area, including the Hamptons. And this story was for that social set, like a lot of the "Vows" section seems to be.
It's the kind of story you'd have ignored if you were reading a physical newspaper, because it wouldn't have been front page news, and likely tucked away in some Lifestyle section.
posted by needled at 5:54 AM on August 9 [10 favorites]
I think in addition to being a national newspaper, NYT is also the gossip rag for a certain social set based in the NYC area, including the Hamptons. And this story was for that social set, like a lot of the "Vows" section seems to be.
It's the kind of story you'd have ignored if you were reading a physical newspaper, because it wouldn't have been front page news, and likely tucked away in some Lifestyle section.
posted by needled at 5:54 AM on August 9 [10 favorites]
The ‘Lifestyle’ section and its writing style and mindset have increasingly infected the entire paper - it’s one of the reasons I recently canceled my subscription and stopped reading the NYT after ~30 years of paying attention to it.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:11 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]
posted by ryanshepard at 6:11 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]
Eh, I'm still willing to bet the wife really had no clue how much shit they were in. After reading the article and this thread, there really does seem to be a level of misogynistic shade thrown at the missus. I mean, I live within my own means and don't understand lavish lifestyles myself, but it sounds like the husband also became accustomed to living a certain way but clearly could not. Maybe he didn't want to disappoint her, maybe he didn't want to disappoint family (as it sounds like his late father was also like this but more clever), but either way, this is a strange story and I too am not sure why the NYT thinks this is longform newsworthy.
There are a lot of married women out there who have no clue about the state of their family finances. Unless you have the kind of marriage where you can openly talk about your money/assets/etc, it is not uncommon for women to be left in the dark. (Especially if you have the kind of classic patriarchal marriage where the woman's role is to be childcare giver and household runner; the man to earn the money and make the Decisions.) My sister is one of these women and it drives me around the bend about how much she doesn't know about what kind of financial security she and her kids have. Her husband merely tells her to not worry and that they will be fine. She doesn't even have a bank account of her own, ffs. (He won't let her have one.)
All this to say: I am not surprised she might have no idea how much shit they were in.
posted by Kitteh at 6:28 AM on August 9 [7 favorites]
There are a lot of married women out there who have no clue about the state of their family finances. Unless you have the kind of marriage where you can openly talk about your money/assets/etc, it is not uncommon for women to be left in the dark. (Especially if you have the kind of classic patriarchal marriage where the woman's role is to be childcare giver and household runner; the man to earn the money and make the Decisions.) My sister is one of these women and it drives me around the bend about how much she doesn't know about what kind of financial security she and her kids have. Her husband merely tells her to not worry and that they will be fine. She doesn't even have a bank account of her own, ffs. (He won't let her have one.)
All this to say: I am not surprised she might have no idea how much shit they were in.
posted by Kitteh at 6:28 AM on August 9 [7 favorites]
This is a story about the desperate desire to BE RICH or HAVE IT ALL and the fact that this man ended his life because he couldn't do those things.
And some of the comments here and elsewhere on the internet make it crystal fucking clear how pointless his quest was.
1. You're not rich unless you own all of your furniture because rich people don't rent furniture.
2. You definitely don't have it all because someone else has more than you and they love to sneer about it. People who have it all do things like start their own exclusive clubs because they like to sneer at the other people who have it all. Just because Nancy is also wealthy doesn't mean you want to rub elbows with her you know.
3. Rich people who have it all are born that way so hahahaha thx for trying.
This is just a PSA for anyone who might be tempted by the same old fancy carrot on a bedazzled stick that they'll just take back anyway because you can't make the payments.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 6:35 AM on August 9 [2 favorites]
And some of the comments here and elsewhere on the internet make it crystal fucking clear how pointless his quest was.
1. You're not rich unless you own all of your furniture because rich people don't rent furniture.
2. You definitely don't have it all because someone else has more than you and they love to sneer about it. People who have it all do things like start their own exclusive clubs because they like to sneer at the other people who have it all. Just because Nancy is also wealthy doesn't mean you want to rub elbows with her you know.
3. Rich people who have it all are born that way so hahahaha thx for trying.
This is just a PSA for anyone who might be tempted by the same old fancy carrot on a bedazzled stick that they'll just take back anyway because you can't make the payments.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 6:35 AM on August 9 [2 favorites]
The Trollope novel about the nouveau rich family who throw the most lavish parties ever until it falls apart and the husband kills himself is The Way We Live Now.
posted by clew at 6:39 AM on August 9 [8 favorites]
posted by clew at 6:39 AM on August 9 [8 favorites]
You're not rich unless you can afford to be rich. These people could not afford to be rich.
If you're in a certain subset of the NYT readership (the subset that own actual ships, let's call them the NYT readeryacht) this story only reaffirms your belief that you are rich because unlike them you can actually afford to throw lavish parties and live opulently. That's why the NYT chose to write about this family's tragic, economic demise over the similarly tragic demises of lots of poorer families who fall into debt.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:47 AM on August 9 [3 favorites]
If you're in a certain subset of the NYT readership (the subset that own actual ships, let's call them the NYT readeryacht) this story only reaffirms your belief that you are rich because unlike them you can actually afford to throw lavish parties and live opulently. That's why the NYT chose to write about this family's tragic, economic demise over the similarly tragic demises of lots of poorer families who fall into debt.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:47 AM on August 9 [3 favorites]
Truly wealthy people are not "running" Instagram-led businesses. The wealthiest person I ever met was a 60-something woman who stopped by the garden center where I used to work. One of my co-workers used to do floral installations for her homes, so she knew him and he introduced her to us all. She was funny, dressed very "frumpy" to use a judgmental term (sweatshirt with dog hair, workout pants, her hair was undone and did in a ponytail, no makeup, Teva sandals) but I mention it because no one would have ever called her out for being the daughter of a multi-generational billionaire family that owned two different jets (one of intra-USA travel, one for overseas). She had driven herself to the garden center in an Audi, but just a run of the mill model you see everywhere. She was funny and friendly and stood around and chatted with all of us for a good half hour. At the time, she was trying to figure out a way to rig a mini-Xmas tree into a big ceramic pot for a table display... we broke up some styrofoam packing material and she managed to wedge it in there decently, and then took all that home to set it up herself again. Also, she slipped her friend a wad of $20 bills, one for each of us. He gave them to us because she didn't want to be handing out cash to seven people, but she was grateful for the help and had a good time. I was surprised to get a tip at all as I did basically nothing to deserve it.
Anyway—I don't think she had an Instagram business.
And yeah, sad story, but the NYT can go fuck itself once again.
posted by SoberHighland at 6:51 AM on August 9 [9 favorites]
Anyway—I don't think she had an Instagram business.
And yeah, sad story, but the NYT can go fuck itself once again.
posted by SoberHighland at 6:51 AM on August 9 [9 favorites]
Yeah, why are they poking at the Instagram angle? That reddit link sums it up much better. In the Boston area, everyone was reading about the Rakesh 'Rick' Kamal case for a few months, a rich guy totally living above his means, and rather than admit he was losing the war he started, he killed his wife and daughter and himself. The names change, the stories stay the same.
posted by Melismata at 7:13 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]
posted by Melismata at 7:13 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]
From the Reddit link above:
There’s rumor that a bigger story will break about the financial swindling that occurred following shiva.
I will bet fourteen American dollars that this comes true. I feel bad for the young kids, but something tells me they will not end up living in penury.
posted by SoberHighland at 7:16 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]
There’s rumor that a bigger story will break about the financial swindling that occurred following shiva.
I will bet fourteen American dollars that this comes true. I feel bad for the young kids, but something tells me they will not end up living in penury.
posted by SoberHighland at 7:16 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]
Amazingly gross misogynistic framing. So glad I don't give these a-holes my money anymore.
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 7:38 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 7:38 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]
t's a pity, but it really seems he couldn't stomach the notion of his family living like regular folk, to fatal fault.
This. And the line of work this guy was in - commercial office real estate, was in the dumps prior to COVID, it just got worse after that.
Truly wealthy people are not "running" Instagram-led businesses
Her insta business was a side-hustle. Plenty of 'truly wealthy' people also want to be moderately famous.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:51 AM on August 9
This. And the line of work this guy was in - commercial office real estate, was in the dumps prior to COVID, it just got worse after that.
Truly wealthy people are not "running" Instagram-led businesses
Her insta business was a side-hustle. Plenty of 'truly wealthy' people also want to be moderately famous.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:51 AM on August 9
My sister is one of these women and it drives me around the bend about how much she doesn't know about what kind of financial security she and her kids have. Her husband merely tells her to not worry and that they will be fine. She doesn't even have a bank account of her own, ffs. (He won't let her have one.)
That's not a red flag - that's a red fire engine coming down the road, all alarms blazing! I don't want to pry on personal stuff, but I can't imagine listening to a husband who suggested that I don't have my own account. If my husband ever suggested that I shouldn't, I'd be going down the street the next day to a bank he doesn't use to open one.
The irony is that I don't actually have my own regular bank account because it's so much more convenient to have only joint accounts; my husband and I are mildly annoyed when there are regulated accounts (tax-free savings, registered retirement) that we aren't allowed to hold jointly by law. I do the primary monitoring (because I remember numbers), but he can always see things when he logs in.
As for the original article: it is really sad, because if they were different people, maybe they could have brought themselves out of the debt. But maybe not if the business was in great debt - more than just changing their lifestyle could affect. It's hard to imagine. I've never even bought anything on debt because I was poor for so long that I got used to the idea that you just had to have the money or you did without. It's left us debt-free, but also asset-free, so it's not always ideal.
posted by jb at 7:56 AM on August 9 [3 favorites]
That's not a red flag - that's a red fire engine coming down the road, all alarms blazing! I don't want to pry on personal stuff, but I can't imagine listening to a husband who suggested that I don't have my own account. If my husband ever suggested that I shouldn't, I'd be going down the street the next day to a bank he doesn't use to open one.
The irony is that I don't actually have my own regular bank account because it's so much more convenient to have only joint accounts; my husband and I are mildly annoyed when there are regulated accounts (tax-free savings, registered retirement) that we aren't allowed to hold jointly by law. I do the primary monitoring (because I remember numbers), but he can always see things when he logs in.
As for the original article: it is really sad, because if they were different people, maybe they could have brought themselves out of the debt. But maybe not if the business was in great debt - more than just changing their lifestyle could affect. It's hard to imagine. I've never even bought anything on debt because I was poor for so long that I got used to the idea that you just had to have the money or you did without. It's left us debt-free, but also asset-free, so it's not always ideal.
posted by jb at 7:56 AM on August 9 [3 favorites]
That's not a red flag - that's a red fire engine coming down the road, all alarms blazing! I don't want to pry on personal stuff, but I can't imagine listening to a husband who suggested that I don't have my own account. If my husband ever suggested that I shouldn't, I'd be going down the street the next day to a bank he doesn't use to open one.
Oh friend, I know but it's not my marriage and I've said my peace about it a lot. I am limited in what I can say, really, without the possibility of estrangement. Anyway, this was more to point out that it's not unusual for women to not know about family finances. (My best friend offered to lend my sister money to open her own bank account but she refused.)
posted by Kitteh at 8:04 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]
Oh friend, I know but it's not my marriage and I've said my peace about it a lot. I am limited in what I can say, really, without the possibility of estrangement. Anyway, this was more to point out that it's not unusual for women to not know about family finances. (My best friend offered to lend my sister money to open her own bank account but she refused.)
posted by Kitteh at 8:04 AM on August 9 [4 favorites]
then they never really say what the guy was doing with all his money (like how was he failing so badly?)
Commercial real estate was devastated in NYC by COVID and has not really recovered due to high interest rates. That statement is an oversimplification of a complex situation (of which I myself have only a modest outsider layperson's understanding), but it's easy to understand why a smallish operator in this space could get caught out.
posted by praemunire at 8:05 AM on August 9
Commercial real estate was devastated in NYC by COVID and has not really recovered due to high interest rates. That statement is an oversimplification of a complex situation (of which I myself have only a modest outsider layperson's understanding), but it's easy to understand why a smallish operator in this space could get caught out.
posted by praemunire at 8:05 AM on August 9
In the Boston area, everyone was reading about the Rakesh 'Rick' Kamal case for a few months
And before that in the Boston area, there was (and still is) the Brian Walshe case
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:15 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]
And before that in the Boston area, there was (and still is) the Brian Walshe case
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:15 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]
Commercial real estate is a bit of a Ponzi scheme because you need to leverage so much in advance of the payout, so you are having to pull in a lot of funds in advance of something that might not work out. The article touches on this, but that is really the issue. They weren't spending 30 million dollars a year on their lavish lifestyle, that was the commercial real estate which it looks like they intertwined with their personal assets. It also looks like the father of the dad was in a lot of debt before he died and was keeping it from his son, so when he died it all started coming down really fast. The reality is that most people who live that style of lavish lifestyle are doing it on borrowed money. The fact that the husband was able to borrow so much money when most people have to give their first born to get a mortgage at 7% is another unexplored aspect of this story.
These things, of course, are not a great story for The NY Times.
The Instagram angle I think is interesting and the point of it was that 1. Instagram is fakey fake fake fake and 2. these folks were using it to push their "brand" (social standing) forward, and most likely received more investment because of it. I have a lot of thoughts about this because of how I've seen people I know not recognize that this sort of posting is very fake and had serious strife about how their lives were not measuring up.
This was a NY Times story because it is definitely page 6 gossip AND as others pointed out, there is a bit of dish online (reddit etc.) that has been following these folks even before this dramatic story unraveled. Sort of a version of Ingrid Goes West stalking.
posted by Toddles at 8:18 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]
These things, of course, are not a great story for The NY Times.
The Instagram angle I think is interesting and the point of it was that 1. Instagram is fakey fake fake fake and 2. these folks were using it to push their "brand" (social standing) forward, and most likely received more investment because of it. I have a lot of thoughts about this because of how I've seen people I know not recognize that this sort of posting is very fake and had serious strife about how their lives were not measuring up.
This was a NY Times story because it is definitely page 6 gossip AND as others pointed out, there is a bit of dish online (reddit etc.) that has been following these folks even before this dramatic story unraveled. Sort of a version of Ingrid Goes West stalking.
posted by Toddles at 8:18 AM on August 9 [6 favorites]
This reminds me of upper class debt in fiction that is set in the regency era. Your milliner and your dressmaker are dunning you for unpaid dress bills? Only thing for it is to order a new hat and a couple of new gowns. The tradespeople let you keep deferring your bills in expectation of them eventually being settled. When the young man inherits an estate, squandered by his father's gambling, his man-of-business advises him by no means to sell the hunters and the town house in London. That would be fatal. Instead he heads to Almack's to seek for an heiress to marry. It's all show, and while there may be more funds available at the next quarter day, it's three months between the quarter days, the first priority is to spend, in order to convince your debtors that you are sitting on a pile of money and are merely neglecting to pay their bills because you can't be bothered to get around to it.
I can picture that in this case, her lavish lifestyle and Instagram feed was the tool that enabled him to get the loans and defer the creditors. He needed her to spend like there were no debts outstanding and that the money was pouring in, or the reckoning would fall due.
In the Regency novels, the impecunious heroes and heroines marry money. Sometimes they are living on their expectations - that is, that an elderly relative will pass away and leave them a fortune. Very rarely they actually manage to recoup their losses through speculation, far more often at the end of an evening of gambling they stake their last vowel, their quizzing glass,watch and fobs, and go home one calm summer's night and put a bullet through their brain.
It works better in real life than it does in romantic fiction, but that is the trope underpinning most contemporary romantic regency novels. She's an heiress attracting fortune hunters, or a penniless poseur, trying to stretch her insufficient funds to get her through just one season , long enough to attract one man wealthy enough to save her from a life of genteel poverty as a poor relation or a governess. Sometimes he is so wealthy that he scorns his life of idle riches, and the people who populate the ton, drifting bored through a life of conspicuous consumption, unable to muster enthusiasm for anything it offers him, and yet haughty and contemptuous sneering at anyone who lacks the same level of wealth and substance.
All that world is fiction, based only very loosely indeed on the actually lives of people who were living then -but this family also had the same ambitions, to look high status and achieve high status, faking it, committing fraud, trying to achieve it by honest means, but not doing anything interesting or creative - wasting their lives trying to stand glittering and visible, getting people to stare at them.
I wonder what they actually DID when weren't spending money? Weren't they bored? Did they not have any inner life? Could it really have all been ego and display? I think it was - and so they lived a life that was no more authentic and realistic than a badly written, and badly researched Regency romance.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:20 AM on August 9 [8 favorites]
I can picture that in this case, her lavish lifestyle and Instagram feed was the tool that enabled him to get the loans and defer the creditors. He needed her to spend like there were no debts outstanding and that the money was pouring in, or the reckoning would fall due.
In the Regency novels, the impecunious heroes and heroines marry money. Sometimes they are living on their expectations - that is, that an elderly relative will pass away and leave them a fortune. Very rarely they actually manage to recoup their losses through speculation, far more often at the end of an evening of gambling they stake their last vowel, their quizzing glass,watch and fobs, and go home one calm summer's night and put a bullet through their brain.
It works better in real life than it does in romantic fiction, but that is the trope underpinning most contemporary romantic regency novels. She's an heiress attracting fortune hunters, or a penniless poseur, trying to stretch her insufficient funds to get her through just one season , long enough to attract one man wealthy enough to save her from a life of genteel poverty as a poor relation or a governess. Sometimes he is so wealthy that he scorns his life of idle riches, and the people who populate the ton, drifting bored through a life of conspicuous consumption, unable to muster enthusiasm for anything it offers him, and yet haughty and contemptuous sneering at anyone who lacks the same level of wealth and substance.
All that world is fiction, based only very loosely indeed on the actually lives of people who were living then -but this family also had the same ambitions, to look high status and achieve high status, faking it, committing fraud, trying to achieve it by honest means, but not doing anything interesting or creative - wasting their lives trying to stand glittering and visible, getting people to stare at them.
I wonder what they actually DID when weren't spending money? Weren't they bored? Did they not have any inner life? Could it really have all been ego and display? I think it was - and so they lived a life that was no more authentic and realistic than a badly written, and badly researched Regency romance.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:20 AM on August 9 [8 favorites]
I wonder what they actually DID when weren't spending money? Weren't they bored?
The husband was a commercial real-estate developer with actual projects. That is an actual job, at least until you are successful enough to hire people to do all the real work (which most people in that position wouldn't do anyway, as it requires personal schmoozing and serious risk and complication [and possible criming] over several years).
The wife had two little girls to care for. I think we agreed to treat childrearing as an acceptable full-time occupation.
These weren't actually the idle rich; they aspired to look like them (which is why I think they hardly count as Hamptons "royalty"). Had the husband been more successful, his kids might've been real idle rich. The shame of thwarted aspirations (probably along with depression or other mental health issues) is what finished the husband off. They were not ton, they were Sedleys. Their display of wealth was not aimed at their tailors, but at potential business partners.
posted by praemunire at 9:45 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]
The husband was a commercial real-estate developer with actual projects. That is an actual job, at least until you are successful enough to hire people to do all the real work (which most people in that position wouldn't do anyway, as it requires personal schmoozing and serious risk and complication [and possible criming] over several years).
The wife had two little girls to care for. I think we agreed to treat childrearing as an acceptable full-time occupation.
These weren't actually the idle rich; they aspired to look like them (which is why I think they hardly count as Hamptons "royalty"). Had the husband been more successful, his kids might've been real idle rich. The shame of thwarted aspirations (probably along with depression or other mental health issues) is what finished the husband off. They were not ton, they were Sedleys. Their display of wealth was not aimed at their tailors, but at potential business partners.
posted by praemunire at 9:45 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]
As always, the evergreen is that the NYT is a force for bad and should die in a fire. Or at least be taken from the nepo baby owner and given to 1) a non profit - could you imagine Pro Publica with those resources; or 2) become employee owned.
Fuck the NYT…
posted by WatTylerJr at 10:22 AM on August 9 [3 favorites]
Fuck the NYT…
posted by WatTylerJr at 10:22 AM on August 9 [3 favorites]
Those resources wouldn't be there anymore, would they? They'd just have the name.
posted by Selena777 at 10:39 AM on August 9
posted by Selena777 at 10:39 AM on August 9
I used to work at a small non-profit that had to raise a million dollars a year.
So it was a necessary part of my job to rub shoulders with (very minor) “rich” people.
The richest guy I met in that job was rather unassuming and a really cool guy in my interactions (basically our benefactor, he believed in the mission). He was definitely not chasing wealth because he was already at billionaire, or close, from his younger days.
But not all the rich people are like that. There were also plenty of people who didn’t care one whit about the non-profit, but rather the photo op donating to a non-profit gave. In the same money league as that guy. This couple did strike me as more in that latter vein.
posted by teece303 at 11:14 AM on August 9
So it was a necessary part of my job to rub shoulders with (very minor) “rich” people.
The richest guy I met in that job was rather unassuming and a really cool guy in my interactions (basically our benefactor, he believed in the mission). He was definitely not chasing wealth because he was already at billionaire, or close, from his younger days.
But not all the rich people are like that. There were also plenty of people who didn’t care one whit about the non-profit, but rather the photo op donating to a non-profit gave. In the same money league as that guy. This couple did strike me as more in that latter vein.
posted by teece303 at 11:14 AM on August 9
At least AIs could now-ish deep fake expensive shit into all your regular facebook etc photos, so maybe the next social network could earn fees by making you look wealthy, instead of through advertisements.
posted by jeffburdges at 12:59 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]
posted by jeffburdges at 12:59 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]
My main takeaway from the article is that it shouldn't be legally possible to be that over-leveraged. And while I know depression can make people think very illogically, does make you wonder whether their marriage wasn't as great as pictured if he believed that his wife would value 15 million more than the rest of his life. Bleak indeed.
posted by coffeecat at 1:17 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 1:17 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]
An old boss of mine made a ton of money when he took a company public. That led to him becoming the dean of a business school, making a lot of friends in rich circles and investing in a bunch of companies, one of which was the one I worked for, etc. He eventually became the CEO of my company and proceeded get his friends to invest in it, but he could never quite get it to turn a profit, mostly by being too nice and basically giving services away to customers.
After a while he'd burned through his own money and a bunch of money from friends of his. When his wife was out at the movies he called her and told her not to come home and then told his stepson to call the police and come over. By the time they got there he had shot himself.
We (mostly the COO because I left the company a bit before the suicide but I was an advisor for a long time) ended up turning the company around and sold it for a decent profit a couple of years later. My ex-boss was a great guy, universally loved and respected and could have retired with his first fortune and wanted for nothing.
Instead he couldn't get out of his own way and couldn't face letting his friends and investors down.
Not entirely sure what I'm trying to say here other than I understand this guy's thought process. Shame is a damned powerful emotion.
posted by mikesch at 2:02 PM on August 9 [7 favorites]
After a while he'd burned through his own money and a bunch of money from friends of his. When his wife was out at the movies he called her and told her not to come home and then told his stepson to call the police and come over. By the time they got there he had shot himself.
We (mostly the COO because I left the company a bit before the suicide but I was an advisor for a long time) ended up turning the company around and sold it for a decent profit a couple of years later. My ex-boss was a great guy, universally loved and respected and could have retired with his first fortune and wanted for nothing.
Instead he couldn't get out of his own way and couldn't face letting his friends and investors down.
Not entirely sure what I'm trying to say here other than I understand this guy's thought process. Shame is a damned powerful emotion.
posted by mikesch at 2:02 PM on August 9 [7 favorites]
I think the most shocking part of the article is that all of this suffering for only 80,000 followers? That's really not that many for influencers...
posted by yueliang at 2:37 PM on August 9
posted by yueliang at 2:37 PM on August 9
also wondering why the NYT felt it was newsworthy
I would bet $8 that Ms. Miller has a friend at the NYT which helped her to pin it all on the dead scammer.
Eh, I'm still willing to bet the wife really had no clue how much shit they were in.
Lets make it happen, captain. How does a friendly $1 wager sound...a la "Trading Places". Wouldn't that be ironic?
Confirm this, and I will hit you up with $1 when I'm wrong...but I would definitely need that $1 when we find out she's just a rich scammer just like the dead one.
There are a lot of married women out there who have no clue about the state of their family finances.
100% accurate. But these aren't educated, nepo rich white peeps that live in the Hamptons. Birds of a feather flock together, and I believe both peeps were scammers. He's dead, so it makes it easy to pin everything on him.
Re-reading my comments...I have NO love for the rich, do I? I'm ok with that. Come down to the basement, and live like the rest of us, Ms. Miller.
Heck, Ms. Miller...you know what's an alternative to Harvard?
posted by hal_cy_on at 3:05 AM on August 10 [1 favorite]
I would bet $8 that Ms. Miller has a friend at the NYT which helped her to pin it all on the dead scammer.
Eh, I'm still willing to bet the wife really had no clue how much shit they were in.
Lets make it happen, captain. How does a friendly $1 wager sound...a la "Trading Places". Wouldn't that be ironic?
Confirm this, and I will hit you up with $1 when I'm wrong...but I would definitely need that $1 when we find out she's just a rich scammer just like the dead one.
There are a lot of married women out there who have no clue about the state of their family finances.
100% accurate. But these aren't educated, nepo rich white peeps that live in the Hamptons. Birds of a feather flock together, and I believe both peeps were scammers. He's dead, so it makes it easy to pin everything on him.
Re-reading my comments...I have NO love for the rich, do I? I'm ok with that. Come down to the basement, and live like the rest of us, Ms. Miller.
Heck, Ms. Miller...you know what's an alternative to Harvard?
posted by hal_cy_on at 3:05 AM on August 10 [1 favorite]
100% accurate. But these aren't educated, nepo rich white peeps that live in the Hamptons.
I think you'd be surprised. It's very deliberately conservative well-off wealthy couple, but it's real. It's a lot easier to obfuscate the household budget if the wife isn't working outside the home.
posted by praemunire at 11:57 AM on August 10 [2 favorites]
I think you'd be surprised. It's very deliberately conservative well-off wealthy couple, but it's real. It's a lot easier to obfuscate the household budget if the wife isn't working outside the home.
posted by praemunire at 11:57 AM on August 10 [2 favorites]
I think you'd be surprised. It's very deliberately conservative well-off wealthy couple, but it's real. It's a lot easier to obfuscate the household budget if the wife isn't working outside the home.
I agree. But she was working outside the home. She even co-founded a women's clothing company.
posted by hal_cy_on at 3:45 AM on August 11
I agree. But she was working outside the home. She even co-founded a women's clothing company.
posted by hal_cy_on at 3:45 AM on August 11
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Also known at "what they New York Times adores."
posted by doctornemo at 5:18 PM on August 8 [26 favorites]