Better than the free chocolate muffins
August 9, 2024 10:52 AM Subscribe
The Olympic Village has free healthcare. The United States, of course, does not:
In the days following her victory, US rugby player Ariana Ramsey made appointments with the Village gynecologist, dentist and ophthalmologist. “Like, what?” she said in a post on TikTok describing her new discovery. The Village also offers cardiology, orthopedics, physiotherapy, psychology, podiatry and, of course, sports medicine—all at no cost to the athletes. Ramsey came to Paris as a rugby player, she is leaving as a universal free healthcare advocate.
The French press has done several stories about "American tourist discovers universal free healthcare!", although they point out that the Olympics charter requires this no matter the location and that it reimburses the host country for the medical services, so Ramsey is not costing France anything.
posted by autopilot at 11:05 AM on August 9 [8 favorites]
posted by autopilot at 11:05 AM on August 9 [8 favorites]
I have long contended, to all the americans among whom I now live, that people here simply don't understand the enormous stress they are under at all times due to the system here. I never once, growing up, gave a moment's thought to whether or not I could go to the doctor. There was no point of sale at any of the walk-in clinics I used to use.
Universal health care is obviously an expense, health care is not in any way free, but knowing that your immediate needs are not tied to immediate payment/subsequent individual debt is a gift Canada gave me and everyone I knew. (It's a gift we gave each other! Collectively deciding that health care is a social priority is a great decision!)
Anyway this young woman has now experienced that gift in a small way and I am glad she's making the connection and deciding to advocate for it at home. Good luck to her and all of us!
posted by Lawn Beaver at 11:44 AM on August 9 [43 favorites]
Universal health care is obviously an expense, health care is not in any way free, but knowing that your immediate needs are not tied to immediate payment/subsequent individual debt is a gift Canada gave me and everyone I knew. (It's a gift we gave each other! Collectively deciding that health care is a social priority is a great decision!)
Anyway this young woman has now experienced that gift in a small way and I am glad she's making the connection and deciding to advocate for it at home. Good luck to her and all of us!
posted by Lawn Beaver at 11:44 AM on August 9 [43 favorites]
I remember the first time I went to a clinic when I moved to Canada. It was a strange sensation to not have to produce an insurance card or prepare to pay after my appointment was over.
Universal health care is obviously an expense, health care is not in any way free, but knowing that your immediate needs are not tied to immediate payment/subsequent individual debt is a gift Canada gave me and everyone I knew. (It's a gift we gave each other! Collectively deciding that health care is a social priority is a great decision!)
This is also why I fight tooth and nail against the encroaching privatization of Tommy Douglas' legacy. EVERYONE gets seen, even the homeless. I've been working in healthcare for the past decade--hospital staffing, family medicine, now psychiatry--and I believe in the system. I believe it needs a massive fucking overhaul but that doesn't have mean going private. I do not want a have and have not system like the US.
Also, I had medical debt at 15. So that was fun.
posted by Kitteh at 12:04 PM on August 9 [17 favorites]
Universal health care is obviously an expense, health care is not in any way free, but knowing that your immediate needs are not tied to immediate payment/subsequent individual debt is a gift Canada gave me and everyone I knew. (It's a gift we gave each other! Collectively deciding that health care is a social priority is a great decision!)
This is also why I fight tooth and nail against the encroaching privatization of Tommy Douglas' legacy. EVERYONE gets seen, even the homeless. I've been working in healthcare for the past decade--hospital staffing, family medicine, now psychiatry--and I believe in the system. I believe it needs a massive fucking overhaul but that doesn't have mean going private. I do not want a have and have not system like the US.
Also, I had medical debt at 15. So that was fun.
posted by Kitteh at 12:04 PM on August 9 [17 favorites]
Gasp. But if we provide free healthcare then someone might have to share a hospital room with a poor or…or…a black person. /faints
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:05 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:05 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]
I never once, growing up, gave a moment's thought to whether or not I could go to the doctor.
Way back when, I used to read comments on Meta and Ask like, "Woke up today and one of my testicles is 3 times the size of other. Do I need to go to the doctor NOW or can I wait a few days?" and I would be... UM!? WTF, get to the doctor!
It happened over and over and I wondered what was was wrong with people being unwilling to go to the doctor? And then I learned about the American Health Care System and I was in disbelief that it could be true.
posted by dobbs at 12:05 PM on August 9 [18 favorites]
Way back when, I used to read comments on Meta and Ask like, "Woke up today and one of my testicles is 3 times the size of other. Do I need to go to the doctor NOW or can I wait a few days?" and I would be... UM!? WTF, get to the doctor!
It happened over and over and I wondered what was was wrong with people being unwilling to go to the doctor? And then I learned about the American Health Care System and I was in disbelief that it could be true.
posted by dobbs at 12:05 PM on August 9 [18 favorites]
My Canadian husband got a taste of the US healthcare system in 2012 when he broke his foot while we were on vacation. Never again, he said.
posted by Kitteh at 12:07 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 12:07 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]
It happened over and over and I wondered what was was wrong with people being unwilling to go to the doctor? And then I learned about the American Health Care System and I was in disbelief that it could be true.
Serious question (as an American): are emergency rooms as chaotic in other countries as they are in the US? One of the big reasons why I'm reluctant to seek urgent medical care when something happens is I don't want to go to the ER and be exposed to god knows what new strain of Covid is floating around in the waiting room, and I don't want to witness people bleeding/barfing/crying while we're all waiting around for hours and hours.
Is this a feature of our system that other countries avoid, in addition to the financial strains? Or is this waiting room experience pretty universal and just a fact of life?
posted by knotty knots at 12:15 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]
Serious question (as an American): are emergency rooms as chaotic in other countries as they are in the US? One of the big reasons why I'm reluctant to seek urgent medical care when something happens is I don't want to go to the ER and be exposed to god knows what new strain of Covid is floating around in the waiting room, and I don't want to witness people bleeding/barfing/crying while we're all waiting around for hours and hours.
Is this a feature of our system that other countries avoid, in addition to the financial strains? Or is this waiting room experience pretty universal and just a fact of life?
posted by knotty knots at 12:15 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]
Years and years ago, TV Nation did a head-to-head comparison of the health care systems in the US, Canada, and Cuba.
Cuba technically won on ease-of-use and affordability, but they had to fudge it so that Canada won because that would have been unacceptable for the communists to win.
The US finished in last place, even then.
I've told this story before, probably, but you never forget seeing the first time you see the disappointment and sadness hit a European visitor when you explain how medical debt is a leading cause of bankruptcy in the US. Healthcare is tied to our jobs! This kinda explains why we're like this!
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 12:16 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]
Cuba technically won on ease-of-use and affordability, but they had to fudge it so that Canada won because that would have been unacceptable for the communists to win.
The US finished in last place, even then.
I've told this story before, probably, but you never forget seeing the first time you see the disappointment and sadness hit a European visitor when you explain how medical debt is a leading cause of bankruptcy in the US. Healthcare is tied to our jobs! This kinda explains why we're like this!
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 12:16 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]
Emergency Rooms in Canada are typically under a lot of stress due to staffing issues, and triage is definitely in play. And people in pain are pretty much the same everywhere. That said, Canadian ERs usually only have people who really should be at the ER, rather than people who just can't get help anywhere else because they have no insurance/money.
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:37 PM on August 9 [11 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:37 PM on August 9 [11 favorites]
Or is this waiting room experience pretty universal and just a fact of life?
I'm in London UK and this sounds pretty normal for every visit I've had my local A&E (the ED). It usually clocks in on an average 6 hour wait for most things. Last time I was there, I made friends with a woman who was actively having a miscarriage in the waiting room, she was still there after 6 hours when I left. The longest I've been there has been about 10 hours. My A&E also functions as the only Urgent Care in the area as well. They've also recently opened an out of hours GP surgery in the same place to try to funnel people out of the hospital system and into the lower urgency medical care they actually need. Many people go to A&E because they can't see anyone else for the mild but urgent issues they have.
Access to medical care here isn't hampered by costs, but it is absolutely a matter of deciding whether you can cope with less than stellar care and waiting 6+ months for a single appointment with a specialist who might just look at your file and tell you they don't know what to do with you, by which time your original symptoms might have disappeared or gotten worse.
Turns out universal healthcare only functions when it is funded and organised properly. Who knew!
posted by fight or flight at 12:46 PM on August 9 [11 favorites]
I'm in London UK and this sounds pretty normal for every visit I've had my local A&E (the ED). It usually clocks in on an average 6 hour wait for most things. Last time I was there, I made friends with a woman who was actively having a miscarriage in the waiting room, she was still there after 6 hours when I left. The longest I've been there has been about 10 hours. My A&E also functions as the only Urgent Care in the area as well. They've also recently opened an out of hours GP surgery in the same place to try to funnel people out of the hospital system and into the lower urgency medical care they actually need. Many people go to A&E because they can't see anyone else for the mild but urgent issues they have.
Access to medical care here isn't hampered by costs, but it is absolutely a matter of deciding whether you can cope with less than stellar care and waiting 6+ months for a single appointment with a specialist who might just look at your file and tell you they don't know what to do with you, by which time your original symptoms might have disappeared or gotten worse.
Turns out universal healthcare only functions when it is funded and organised properly. Who knew!
posted by fight or flight at 12:46 PM on August 9 [11 favorites]
The biggest problem in a lot of Canadian ERs these days send to be that they are filled with people who can't find a family doctor or get into a walk in clinic. That's a function of how few people we train to be doctors and of how poorly we pay family doctors relative to other specialties.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:47 PM on August 9 [8 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 12:47 PM on August 9 [8 favorites]
I ran into a really interesting thing recently, having just gotten a new ophthalmologist after moving to the EU. My vision has apparently not declined in the last three years, so I asked about what the laser correction options were. I have a condition that, at the time I was diagnosed, meant I could have PRK but not LASIK, but that was more than a decade ago and medicine moves fast. I was still not prepared for his response.
They don’t do laser vision correction at all anymore. Once you’ve reached the appropriate age and your vision has stabilized, they set you up for a cataract lens replacement, just without the cataracts. It corrects your vision and prevents you from getting cataracts in the future. He explained that they just assume everybody gets cataracts eventually, and the procedure isn’t any more risky, so they might as well.
I thought I had a pretty good bead on all the ways the US system was screwed, but this one still managed to shock me, both for how sensible it was, and how the economic forces in the US would never allow for such a holistic solution.
posted by gelfin at 12:56 PM on August 9 [15 favorites]
They don’t do laser vision correction at all anymore. Once you’ve reached the appropriate age and your vision has stabilized, they set you up for a cataract lens replacement, just without the cataracts. It corrects your vision and prevents you from getting cataracts in the future. He explained that they just assume everybody gets cataracts eventually, and the procedure isn’t any more risky, so they might as well.
I thought I had a pretty good bead on all the ways the US system was screwed, but this one still managed to shock me, both for how sensible it was, and how the economic forces in the US would never allow for such a holistic solution.
posted by gelfin at 12:56 PM on August 9 [15 favorites]
Ramsey came to Paris as a rugby player, she is leaving as a universal free healthcare advocate.
It's worth a try!
posted by chavenet at 12:57 PM on August 9 [7 favorites]
It's worth a try!
posted by chavenet at 12:57 PM on August 9 [7 favorites]
I have long contended, to all the americans among whom I now live, that people here simply don't understand the enormous stress they are under at all times due to the system here.
Admittedly I have spent years living in countries with actual functional healthcare to give me perspective, but many of my US friends and family who never travel still understand just how bad they have it, they're not dumb. But what exactly are they supposed to do? Our government is owned by the healthcare corporations and most of their fellow citizens are brainwashed into thinking they have the Greatest Healthcare On Earth.
posted by photo guy at 12:57 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]
Admittedly I have spent years living in countries with actual functional healthcare to give me perspective, but many of my US friends and family who never travel still understand just how bad they have it, they're not dumb. But what exactly are they supposed to do? Our government is owned by the healthcare corporations and most of their fellow citizens are brainwashed into thinking they have the Greatest Healthcare On Earth.
posted by photo guy at 12:57 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]
Not only is medical care in the U.S. expensive, the billing procedures are absolutely Byzantine. I went to the ER, had to be admitted overnight, paid the hospital bill when it came, then discovered that that was just one bill of four that needed to be paid. The ER doc, specialist, and lab all had to be paid separately. I was lucky in that I was able to catch all the specific bills, but for people who are sicker or busier than I, it can quickly spiral into financial catastrophe.
We can prevent this kind of life-changing disaster. Some people just really want others to suffer if they had to.
posted by corey flood at 12:58 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]
We can prevent this kind of life-changing disaster. Some people just really want others to suffer if they had to.
posted by corey flood at 12:58 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]
gelfin, my finnish healthcare system (also EU) is also proactively designed. After I hit 50, I just get automatic mammogram and pap smear appointments every two years in the mail (I can adjust the date and time if required). healthcare is increasingly being linked to wellbeing. otoh as a small country that is heavily urbanized, rural health systems are feeling the strain
posted by infini at 1:07 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]
posted by infini at 1:07 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]
Mrs. Example and I are Americans who moved to the UK some seventeen years ago, and the utter sense of relief at just being able to see a doctor and afford medication was life-changing. We never knew how much stress we were living under.
She's had a couple of medical emergencies over the last few years, and the knowledge that the only thing we'd have to pay was the taxes we were already paying plus the odd taxi ride back home from the hospital was a godsend.
Last year we went back to America to visit the family. I bought travel insurance, which I'd never bought before. (I'd had it through work, but never bought it personally.) Thank god I did, because halfway through a two-week trip, Mrs. Example wound up having to have emergency gall bladder surgery.
Even with the insurance, it took months of haggling and trying to get the hospital to understand that it needed to talk to the insurance company and not any of us, and the final bill (over $20K!) wasn't finally settled until almost a year after the actual surgery.
British people occasionally ask us if we'd ever consider moving back to America, and...no. Just no. We're not willing to give up the NHS.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:08 PM on August 9 [8 favorites]
She's had a couple of medical emergencies over the last few years, and the knowledge that the only thing we'd have to pay was the taxes we were already paying plus the odd taxi ride back home from the hospital was a godsend.
Last year we went back to America to visit the family. I bought travel insurance, which I'd never bought before. (I'd had it through work, but never bought it personally.) Thank god I did, because halfway through a two-week trip, Mrs. Example wound up having to have emergency gall bladder surgery.
Even with the insurance, it took months of haggling and trying to get the hospital to understand that it needed to talk to the insurance company and not any of us, and the final bill (over $20K!) wasn't finally settled until almost a year after the actual surgery.
British people occasionally ask us if we'd ever consider moving back to America, and...no. Just no. We're not willing to give up the NHS.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:08 PM on August 9 [8 favorites]
That said, Canadian ERs usually only have people who really should be at the ER, rather than people who just can't get help anywhere else because they have no insurance/money.
Unless it's after-hours or on the weekend. I'd bet a lot of the people in an Ontarian ER at those times are there because they either don't have a family doctor or can't get an appointment with one within a reasonable timeframe.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:08 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]
Unless it's after-hours or on the weekend. I'd bet a lot of the people in an Ontarian ER at those times are there because they either don't have a family doctor or can't get an appointment with one within a reasonable timeframe.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:08 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]
The biggest problem in a lot of Canadian ERs these days send to be that they are filled with people who can't find a family doctor or get into a walk in clinic. That's a function of how few people we train to be doctors and of how poorly we pay family doctors relative to other specialties.
So: former family medicine clerk here who used to work at a family health team that also trained med grads in family medicine. (At the risk of outing myself, it was a clinic attached to a major Canadian university.) I can say that out of the dozens who passed through those doors for a year of service and learning (sometimes two years), only three of them went on to chose family medicine. They saw the hours, the paperwork, and the constant hustle of having too many patients and not enough time with those patients and said Absolutely the fuck not. A lot of them went on specialist fields because that's where the money is at and you gotta pay off those student loans.
Family medicine is less than appealing than ever right now, especially post lockdown. Family docs don't make as much as their fellow doctors, the paperwork is Byzantine and ridiculous and is not the kind of paperwork you can hand off to admin, and they are overrostered. It's A LOT. And until we make family medicine appealing to medical students, the problem will only get worse. Here in Ontario, getting a family doctor is like winning the lottery. A lot of them have retired and there aren't as many young bodies to replace them.* Municipalities are offering increasing amounts of money to their cities and towns, resulting in a weird Hunger Games chase for family doctors. Hell, my family doctor is no spring chicken and I have no idea what I will do when she does retire.
*this is why I laugh at medical AskMes where the answers are "just change doctors" LOLOLOLOLOL
posted by Kitteh at 1:27 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]
So: former family medicine clerk here who used to work at a family health team that also trained med grads in family medicine. (At the risk of outing myself, it was a clinic attached to a major Canadian university.) I can say that out of the dozens who passed through those doors for a year of service and learning (sometimes two years), only three of them went on to chose family medicine. They saw the hours, the paperwork, and the constant hustle of having too many patients and not enough time with those patients and said Absolutely the fuck not. A lot of them went on specialist fields because that's where the money is at and you gotta pay off those student loans.
Family medicine is less than appealing than ever right now, especially post lockdown. Family docs don't make as much as their fellow doctors, the paperwork is Byzantine and ridiculous and is not the kind of paperwork you can hand off to admin, and they are overrostered. It's A LOT. And until we make family medicine appealing to medical students, the problem will only get worse. Here in Ontario, getting a family doctor is like winning the lottery. A lot of them have retired and there aren't as many young bodies to replace them.* Municipalities are offering increasing amounts of money to their cities and towns, resulting in a weird Hunger Games chase for family doctors. Hell, my family doctor is no spring chicken and I have no idea what I will do when she does retire.
*this is why I laugh at medical AskMes where the answers are "just change doctors" LOLOLOLOLOL
posted by Kitteh at 1:27 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]
Even more than the health care, I was started by the information that, since, unlike most countries, the USA provides no support to the athletes, at least some of them live in incredibly precarious positions. Maybe some of that broadcast money could go to support them….
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:31 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:31 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]
The guys I work with who want to have relations with our PM bang the private healthcare slippery slope drum all the time saying "At least if we had an American system I could just pay out of pocket to get [whatever procedure they think they need]". And having seen the AskMe questions like dobbs I'm like "You you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. America spends twice as much as Canada and doesn't cover all their people and a large percentage of Americans technically have insurance but they are plans with deductibles so high that they can't actually use it. People have to choose between rent and taking their kids to the doctor all the time. It costs 10s of thousands of dollars to have a baby with insurance and heaven forbid your kid have to spend a couple days in the hospital after birth." "But I have to wait 6 months for a MRI on my knee *whine*." A bunch of ignoramuses all of them. I have that conversation at least every month.
posted by Mitheral at 1:33 PM on August 9 [9 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 1:33 PM on August 9 [9 favorites]
In Canada it varies.
I took a friend to ER a couple of weeks ago and went aw shit .. but what you gonna do?
I was very surprised at how not unpleasant it was. It really went well.
But , and it's a big but., the hospital had just built a large addition. Bigger than the older preexisting building.
So the two combined buildings had a lot of space.
The ambulances had their own wing. So you did not see the stretchers , guerneys.
The walkins like my friend, well the triage was much better, much quicker than before.
The triage , admin stuff was far better than I recalled.
I think our wait time was like 30 minutes. I was impressed.
But I' ve also seen where the chaos is just hidden behind several layers.
And in Ontario an ambulance ride is a flat $45.
Used to be $75. They bill you. You don't have to pay upfront.
posted by yyz at 1:38 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]
I took a friend to ER a couple of weeks ago and went aw shit .. but what you gonna do?
I was very surprised at how not unpleasant it was. It really went well.
But , and it's a big but., the hospital had just built a large addition. Bigger than the older preexisting building.
So the two combined buildings had a lot of space.
The ambulances had their own wing. So you did not see the stretchers , guerneys.
The walkins like my friend, well the triage was much better, much quicker than before.
The triage , admin stuff was far better than I recalled.
I think our wait time was like 30 minutes. I was impressed.
But I' ve also seen where the chaos is just hidden behind several layers.
And in Ontario an ambulance ride is a flat $45.
Used to be $75. They bill you. You don't have to pay upfront.
posted by yyz at 1:38 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]
And until we make family medicine appealing to medical students, the problem will only get worse.
I don't think we necessarily need to make family medicine more appealing to medical students, we just need more medical students and then more of them will end up as family doctors. There's no lack of students who want to go into med school, even if you aren't going to get rich being a family doctor. We could simply train more doctors. This is such a solvable problem.
posted by ssg at 1:41 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]
I don't think we necessarily need to make family medicine more appealing to medical students, we just need more medical students and then more of them will end up as family doctors. There's no lack of students who want to go into med school, even if you aren't going to get rich being a family doctor. We could simply train more doctors. This is such a solvable problem.
posted by ssg at 1:41 PM on August 9 [6 favorites]
Mitheral I know people like that as well.
Sing the praises of the American system. Thinking if I tip more I can jump the line up. Sorta like tipping the doorman for a table
They have no frigging idea what they are talking about. They are so full of misinformation, disinformation it's astounding.
They don't realize that any doctor or group doctors can open up a practice or surgery and charge whatever they want. A true private clinic or hospital. There is no law against it. Go ahead
They can charge what they want. But if they accept OHIP ( government fee ) that is it. They cannot charge extra. They cannot charge OHIP plus a bit extra privately.
They are either wholly in or they are out.
This is what some desire . To have OHIP pay , and then receive an additional payment from the patient.
So far that's been shot down.
But there is nothing stopping anyone from opening up a private hospital and charging what they want. Go ahead. But then you are out of the government system
posted by yyz at 2:00 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]
Sing the praises of the American system. Thinking if I tip more I can jump the line up. Sorta like tipping the doorman for a table
They have no frigging idea what they are talking about. They are so full of misinformation, disinformation it's astounding.
They don't realize that any doctor or group doctors can open up a practice or surgery and charge whatever they want. A true private clinic or hospital. There is no law against it. Go ahead
They can charge what they want. But if they accept OHIP ( government fee ) that is it. They cannot charge extra. They cannot charge OHIP plus a bit extra privately.
They are either wholly in or they are out.
This is what some desire . To have OHIP pay , and then receive an additional payment from the patient.
So far that's been shot down.
But there is nothing stopping anyone from opening up a private hospital and charging what they want. Go ahead. But then you are out of the government system
posted by yyz at 2:00 PM on August 9 [3 favorites]
A bunch of ignoramuses all of them. I have that conversation at least every month.
I want to go, "OH WOW, I didn't know you were rich!" Those folks have no idea how much healthcare can cost. Again, me, an American, had medical debt at fifteen.
posted by Kitteh at 2:04 PM on August 9 [4 favorites]
I want to go, "OH WOW, I didn't know you were rich!" Those folks have no idea how much healthcare can cost. Again, me, an American, had medical debt at fifteen.
posted by Kitteh at 2:04 PM on August 9 [4 favorites]
I have been in the ER several times in Canada in the past year for both myself and my son in the past year, so I think I can give a good overiew. FIrst, I have a family doctor. I had the same family doctor for 35 years and she retired and sold her practice to a newly graduated doc so now I have him, so we were there for non-family-doctor-treatable reasons.
Longest visit: ~40 hours. I had covid. Saw a doc after about 5 hours. Got a CT scan. CT scan showed something and most of the rest of the time was spent waiting for follow-up MRI and then specialist consults and more specialist consults.
Shortest visit: ~4 hours? Mid-day weekday visit at the pediatric hospital to have something removed from son's ear that he had stuck in there. I actually called the family doctor and they said take him to the ER we don't do removing stuff from kids.
Most intervention-y: Tie: Minor procedure for me to treat an infection under local anesthetic, iv meds and lots of tests and cultures, visit about 6 hours. Again, I had called family doc and they said we don't do that, you need to go to ER. Removing item my son had stuck his finger into and could not remove, required twilight anesthesia, maybe 3 hours total visit. OK, this may actually have been the shortest.
Chaos?: The hospital closest to our home gets a fair number of people there who have mental health concerns or who are possibly drug-seeking. When I was there removing the item stuck on my son's finger one person was aggressively folllowing him and kind of speaking to him loudly but security made him back off and a triage nurse immediately brought my son to wait in the back where he would not be bothered. Also, since my son's finger was noticeably black they did deal with him right away.
I mean mostly the ER waiting room is full of of people who look exhausted. Some of them seem like they're in pain. Some people are coughing. One or two people may be kind of angry or annoyed and there may be some entitled people who want to complain that they've been waiting or whatever whatever, but most people are aware that no one is there because they're having a great day and everyone would rather be somewhere else and most people try to be kind to each other and just chill and wait their turn. Yeah it sucks to wait to but it sucks more to be the person who doesn't have to wait because that means you're really sick.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:09 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]
Longest visit: ~40 hours. I had covid. Saw a doc after about 5 hours. Got a CT scan. CT scan showed something and most of the rest of the time was spent waiting for follow-up MRI and then specialist consults and more specialist consults.
Shortest visit: ~4 hours? Mid-day weekday visit at the pediatric hospital to have something removed from son's ear that he had stuck in there. I actually called the family doctor and they said take him to the ER we don't do removing stuff from kids.
Most intervention-y: Tie: Minor procedure for me to treat an infection under local anesthetic, iv meds and lots of tests and cultures, visit about 6 hours. Again, I had called family doc and they said we don't do that, you need to go to ER. Removing item my son had stuck his finger into and could not remove, required twilight anesthesia, maybe 3 hours total visit. OK, this may actually have been the shortest.
Chaos?: The hospital closest to our home gets a fair number of people there who have mental health concerns or who are possibly drug-seeking. When I was there removing the item stuck on my son's finger one person was aggressively folllowing him and kind of speaking to him loudly but security made him back off and a triage nurse immediately brought my son to wait in the back where he would not be bothered. Also, since my son's finger was noticeably black they did deal with him right away.
I mean mostly the ER waiting room is full of of people who look exhausted. Some of them seem like they're in pain. Some people are coughing. One or two people may be kind of angry or annoyed and there may be some entitled people who want to complain that they've been waiting or whatever whatever, but most people are aware that no one is there because they're having a great day and everyone would rather be somewhere else and most people try to be kind to each other and just chill and wait their turn. Yeah it sucks to wait to but it sucks more to be the person who doesn't have to wait because that means you're really sick.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:09 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]
A someone in the US who directly buys my health insurance through the state health insurance marketplace (Covered California) rather than through my employer, can someone help clarify the meaning of "US. Healthcare is tied to our jobs"? I am guessing this may mean either:
A: The cost of acquiring health insurance is lower through my employer than through my state-provided marketplace.
B: I will lose access to my preferred doctors and hospitals without employer-provided health insurance.
C: Both A & B.
Is there another meaning? I don't have direct experience with health insurance in other US states.
posted by Goblin Barbarian at 2:28 PM on August 9
A: The cost of acquiring health insurance is lower through my employer than through my state-provided marketplace.
B: I will lose access to my preferred doctors and hospitals without employer-provided health insurance.
C: Both A & B.
Is there another meaning? I don't have direct experience with health insurance in other US states.
posted by Goblin Barbarian at 2:28 PM on August 9
(d) My employer pays for all or most of my health insurance.
Most people don't use Covered California due to the individual expense. Employers have enough people to balance out the costs, something like that.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:44 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]
Most people don't use Covered California due to the individual expense. Employers have enough people to balance out the costs, something like that.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:44 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]
A story from the US, even when you're fully insured in an above-average medical system: A relative recently went to the ER with complications from a surgery they just had in the same hospital. Despite the severe pain and swelling, and notes of a non-standard surgical procedure in their record, they still had to wait six hours to get triaged and were almost sent home. The lone doctor who could authorize admission wasn't answering their phone. A quote from a nurse explaining why they weren't high priority: "You have two kidneys."
posted by credulous at 2:58 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]
posted by credulous at 2:58 PM on August 9 [2 favorites]
E) if I leave my employer in the middle of my coverage year, I have to restart meeting a deductible for the year. I will also lose any unused FSA funds
F) my employer pays the entirety of my premium (and I’m lucky that they cover my spouse as well). If I leave my job, and take a new one offering the “same” salary, I can still easily be making 300-600 less a month due to insurance premiums that they may not covered
G) if I and my spouse are unemployed, we will not have insurance coverage- or enough money to purchase coverage through a state marketplace.
posted by raccoon409 at 3:04 PM on August 9 [4 favorites]
F) my employer pays the entirety of my premium (and I’m lucky that they cover my spouse as well). If I leave my job, and take a new one offering the “same” salary, I can still easily be making 300-600 less a month due to insurance premiums that they may not covered
G) if I and my spouse are unemployed, we will not have insurance coverage- or enough money to purchase coverage through a state marketplace.
posted by raccoon409 at 3:04 PM on August 9 [4 favorites]
I just got a bill for $163 dollars for an $80 arm brace that I needed from urgent care when I broke my arm over Memorial Day weekend. I got a “member discount” of $11 but BCBS didn’t actually cover any of the cost.
posted by raccoon409 at 3:05 PM on August 9
posted by raccoon409 at 3:05 PM on August 9
A someone in the US who directly buys my health insurance through the state health insurance marketplace (Covered California) rather than through my employer, can someone help clarify the meaning of "US. Healthcare is tied to our jobs"? I am guessing this may mean either:
X: I live in Georgia. We do not have Medicaid expansion, so at least 400,000 people are too poor to qualify for an ACA subsidy to buy insurance on the marketplace but do not qualify for Medicaid. (They recently passed an alleged Medicaid expansion with work requirements. Kemp claimed 100,000 people would sign up this year. 4,000 people did. The requirements to prove you worked or went to school the right number of hours each month are too onerous for most humans.)
Y: I live in Georgia. I have a serious, chronic medical condition requiring expensive prescriptions as does my spouse. If I lost my employer (state) health insurance, the only marketplace plans we could afford would have an enormous deductible and would require us paying outrageous amounts for our medications each month.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:29 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]
X: I live in Georgia. We do not have Medicaid expansion, so at least 400,000 people are too poor to qualify for an ACA subsidy to buy insurance on the marketplace but do not qualify for Medicaid. (They recently passed an alleged Medicaid expansion with work requirements. Kemp claimed 100,000 people would sign up this year. 4,000 people did. The requirements to prove you worked or went to school the right number of hours each month are too onerous for most humans.)
Y: I live in Georgia. I have a serious, chronic medical condition requiring expensive prescriptions as does my spouse. If I lost my employer (state) health insurance, the only marketplace plans we could afford would have an enormous deductible and would require us paying outrageous amounts for our medications each month.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:29 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]
My Canadian husband got a taste of the US healthcare system in 2012 when he broke his foot while we were on vacation. Never again, he said.
I tripped on a sidewalk in Hollywood, fell into a construction pit. I've had a lot of spills in my life and felt like I'd broken my nose and cracked my knee and wrist. I had travel insurance.
I ended up at an urgent care place. There was a $99 deductible. In the examining room, I explained what happened and told the doctor my diagnoses. He looked at me for 5 minutes and told me I had a broken nose and "probably" a fractured knee and a fractured wrist.
"So, exactly what I said?"
He nodded.
He then offered to "clean me up" (my face looked pretty bad) and added that it was not covered by insurance. I asked what he meant and he said it was $60 per "incident". I said it was one incident. He said, "No, each time I have to remove my hand and go to another area of your face, it's another incident." I asked how many he could see. He counted.
"Nine or ten."
I asked if he could not just drag his hand around and not lift it off and consider it one incident. He neither smiled or answered.
I said, "Define 'clean up'." He showed me some antiseptic wipes and some Polysporin. "So, $600 to wipe my face and put some goop on it?"
He nodded.
I left and spent $14 on Polysporin and some wipes at CVS and did it myself using the front window of the pharmacy as a mirror.
Nine months later I got the deductible back from my insurance.
To put this in perspective for Americans, all of this would have been free in Canada and they would have x-rayed my knee and wrist and provided me with pain medication while in the emergency room and given me a prescription for pain meds that I could choose to fill or not (at my expense). If followup stuff was needed for the knee and wrist, it would have been free. (No one does anything any longer for broken noses.) Admittedly, I would have had to wait a few hours for this care.
posted by dobbs at 3:32 PM on August 9 [5 favorites]
I tripped on a sidewalk in Hollywood, fell into a construction pit. I've had a lot of spills in my life and felt like I'd broken my nose and cracked my knee and wrist. I had travel insurance.
I ended up at an urgent care place. There was a $99 deductible. In the examining room, I explained what happened and told the doctor my diagnoses. He looked at me for 5 minutes and told me I had a broken nose and "probably" a fractured knee and a fractured wrist.
"So, exactly what I said?"
He nodded.
He then offered to "clean me up" (my face looked pretty bad) and added that it was not covered by insurance. I asked what he meant and he said it was $60 per "incident". I said it was one incident. He said, "No, each time I have to remove my hand and go to another area of your face, it's another incident." I asked how many he could see. He counted.
"Nine or ten."
I asked if he could not just drag his hand around and not lift it off and consider it one incident. He neither smiled or answered.
I said, "Define 'clean up'." He showed me some antiseptic wipes and some Polysporin. "So, $600 to wipe my face and put some goop on it?"
He nodded.
I left and spent $14 on Polysporin and some wipes at CVS and did it myself using the front window of the pharmacy as a mirror.
Nine months later I got the deductible back from my insurance.
To put this in perspective for Americans, all of this would have been free in Canada and they would have x-rayed my knee and wrist and provided me with pain medication while in the emergency room and given me a prescription for pain meds that I could choose to fill or not (at my expense). If followup stuff was needed for the knee and wrist, it would have been free. (No one does anything any longer for broken noses.) Admittedly, I would have had to wait a few hours for this care.
posted by dobbs at 3:32 PM on August 9 [5 favorites]
I haven't been to a doctor in over 15 years. I assume the next time I see one will be shortly before my death so I won't really have to foot the bill, which is a nice bonus.
posted by GoblinHoney at 3:41 PM on August 9
posted by GoblinHoney at 3:41 PM on August 9
>I remember the first time I went to a clinic when I moved to Canada. It was a strange sensation to not have to produce an insurance card or prepare to pay after my appointment was over.
I didn’t go to the doctor for my first year to year-and-a-half in Canada because I couldn’t find any information on how much the co-pay for a visit would be. I figured out at one point that I wouldn’t have to pay any money at the time of my visit to a doctor or clinic, but couldn’t figure out how much I’d be on the hook for when they sent me a bill afterwards. The idea of co-pays or follow-up bills of unspecified amounts was so alien and bizarre to Canadians at the time that no one thought to explain to a new US resident that (for most stuff at least) it’s just free.
Earlier in my time here, I had two US visitors who needed health care while visiting me in Canada. They did eventually get bills, and the doctors office staff weren’t sure ahead of time how much it would cost because they hadn’t had to deal with billing people before. But in both cases it was half or less than half what the same visit would have cost in the US, even for the one who had what was at the time middle-tier US health insurance.
posted by eviemath at 3:49 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]
I didn’t go to the doctor for my first year to year-and-a-half in Canada because I couldn’t find any information on how much the co-pay for a visit would be. I figured out at one point that I wouldn’t have to pay any money at the time of my visit to a doctor or clinic, but couldn’t figure out how much I’d be on the hook for when they sent me a bill afterwards. The idea of co-pays or follow-up bills of unspecified amounts was so alien and bizarre to Canadians at the time that no one thought to explain to a new US resident that (for most stuff at least) it’s just free.
Earlier in my time here, I had two US visitors who needed health care while visiting me in Canada. They did eventually get bills, and the doctors office staff weren’t sure ahead of time how much it would cost because they hadn’t had to deal with billing people before. But in both cases it was half or less than half what the same visit would have cost in the US, even for the one who had what was at the time middle-tier US health insurance.
posted by eviemath at 3:49 PM on August 9 [1 favorite]
I’ve also accessed health care while travelling in both France and Austria. Very minor consultations in both cases, so they might have bothered figuring out how to bill me if it was something more involved, I suppose. But in both of those cases my health care was just free, despite being a visitor not enrolled in either country’s national health care system. The US system is so insane from the perspective of any other country with comparable or even a bit less overall wealth.
posted by eviemath at 3:54 PM on August 9
posted by eviemath at 3:54 PM on August 9
In the past two years I've had 3 surgeries and with included pre and post ops and related visits, I've spent about $16,000 dollars (not counting the $200 a month I pay towards my employer's insurance plan). As much as I didn't love eating through most of my savings that took a hell of a lot longer than two years to save, that wasn't the hardest part for me. By US standards I'm extraordinarily lucky. At virtually every appointment, procedure and surgery I would think, "there are so many people who need this at least as much as I do, but can't get it". I'm getting very emotional, mad and tearing up just typing that.
I have said, "the system is broken" to a good number of front line health care workers over the years and their responses always fell on a scale somewhere between, "absolutely" and "don't get me started". To the Canadian privatizers, be careful what you wish for... you just might get it.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 4:46 PM on August 9
I have said, "the system is broken" to a good number of front line health care workers over the years and their responses always fell on a scale somewhere between, "absolutely" and "don't get me started". To the Canadian privatizers, be careful what you wish for... you just might get it.
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 4:46 PM on August 9
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posted by supermedusa at 10:56 AM on August 9 [15 favorites]