"You're the greatest cutter."
August 13, 2024 10:48 AM Subscribe
United Auto Workers files federal labor charges against Trump, Musk (WaPo) After Trump said, in an interview with Musk, “You walk in, you say, ‘You want to quit?’ They go on strike. I won’t mention the name of the company, but they go on strike, and you say, ‘That’s okay. You’re all gone. You’re all gone. So, every one of you is gone.’” In a statement, UAW president Shawn Fain said “When we say Trump stands against everything our union stands for, this is what we mean. Both Trump and Musk want working class people to sit down and shut up, and they laugh about it openly. It’s disgusting, illegal, and totally predictable from these two clowns.”
More about Trump and labor: Communication Workers of America, AFL-CIO, AFSCME, USW
More about Trump and labor: Communication Workers of America, AFL-CIO, AFSCME, USW
Shawn Fain is a breath of fresh air.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 11:04 AM on August 13 [37 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 11:04 AM on August 13 [37 favorites]
Lock them up! Lock them up!
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:07 AM on August 13 [7 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 11:07 AM on August 13 [7 favorites]
Anybody see Sean O’Brien since the RNC?
posted by General Malaise at 11:24 AM on August 13 [5 favorites]
posted by General Malaise at 11:24 AM on August 13 [5 favorites]
Less than a month ago: United Auto Workers slam Trump after he criticizes leader at GOP convention (USA Today) &
UAW President Rips “Scab” Trump a New One After RNC Speech (New Republic) Fain’s tenure as UAW president brought the union a massive victory in negotiations with the three biggest U.S. automakers last year, and the UAW followed that by successfully organizing a Volkswagen auto plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee, this April, the first such occurrence in the South. At the time, this rattled Republican leaders and received little GOP support, if any. In both victories, the UAW made sure to include measures that took climate change into account, which also rankled Republicans.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:26 AM on August 13 [27 favorites]
UAW President Rips “Scab” Trump a New One After RNC Speech (New Republic) Fain’s tenure as UAW president brought the union a massive victory in negotiations with the three biggest U.S. automakers last year, and the UAW followed that by successfully organizing a Volkswagen auto plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee, this April, the first such occurrence in the South. At the time, this rattled Republican leaders and received little GOP support, if any. In both victories, the UAW made sure to include measures that took climate change into account, which also rankled Republicans.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:26 AM on August 13 [27 favorites]
Additional sources:
UAW Files Federal Labor Charges Against Donald Trump and Elon Musk for Attempting to Intimidate and Threaten Workers, UAW web site
UAW files charges against Trump, Musk for trying to intimidate workers, Reuters, Nora Eckert and Daniel Wiessner
UAW files federal labor charges against Donald Trump and Elon Musk, ABC News, Julia Reinstein
UAW files labor charges against Trump and Musk over strike remarks, Axios, Nathan Bomey
I am really pleased to hear about this. Kudos and gratitude to the UAW for standing up for all workers' rights.
posted by kristi at 11:30 AM on August 13 [39 favorites]
UAW Files Federal Labor Charges Against Donald Trump and Elon Musk for Attempting to Intimidate and Threaten Workers, UAW web site
UAW files charges against Trump, Musk for trying to intimidate workers, Reuters, Nora Eckert and Daniel Wiessner
UAW files federal labor charges against Donald Trump and Elon Musk, ABC News, Julia Reinstein
UAW files labor charges against Trump and Musk over strike remarks, Axios, Nathan Bomey
I am really pleased to hear about this. Kudos and gratitude to the UAW for standing up for all workers' rights.
posted by kristi at 11:30 AM on August 13 [39 favorites]
Iris Gambol - that's the first I've heard about the climate change measures! Fascinating - thanks for highlighting that!
posted by kristi at 11:31 AM on August 13 [8 favorites]
posted by kristi at 11:31 AM on August 13 [8 favorites]
Solidarity forever.
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:34 AM on August 13 [17 favorites]
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:34 AM on August 13 [17 favorites]
Fingers crossed for law being real.
posted by Artw at 11:40 AM on August 13 [10 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:40 AM on August 13 [10 favorites]
FAFO
posted by thecincinnatikid at 12:06 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]
posted by thecincinnatikid at 12:06 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]
"these two clowns" for the win.
posted by rude.boy at 12:10 PM on August 13 [11 favorites]
posted by rude.boy at 12:10 PM on August 13 [11 favorites]
"Someone should probably tell the rich that workers banding together to present formal address of grievances is the alternative we worked out a long time ago to breaking down the factory owner's front door and beating him to death in front of his family? I feel like they forgot."
posted by Jacqueline at 12:16 PM on August 13 [90 favorites]
posted by Jacqueline at 12:16 PM on August 13 [90 favorites]
waitasec - his name is like actually really Shawn Fein?
posted by AzraelBrown at 12:17 PM on August 13 [23 favorites]
posted by AzraelBrown at 12:17 PM on August 13 [23 favorites]
The climate change stuff seems more like survival. Isn't Chinese battery manufacturing about to make an explosion of low cost suvs for export?
posted by eustatic at 12:20 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]
posted by eustatic at 12:20 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]
We're gonna hold him accountable to the rule of law this time for sure, everybody!
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:35 PM on August 13 [12 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:35 PM on August 13 [12 favorites]
We're gonna hold him accountable to the rule of law this time for sure, everybody!
It's a legitimate charge and every lawyer Trump has working to shake this is one fewer lawyer he has working the criminal cases.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:46 PM on August 13 [38 favorites]
It's a legitimate charge and every lawyer Trump has working to shake this is one fewer lawyer he has working the criminal cases.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:46 PM on August 13 [38 favorites]
I love the way KamalaHQ is (link to X/Twitter) nailing the tone in responding to "whatever that was on Twitter last night."
posted by rpfields at 12:49 PM on August 13 [20 favorites]
posted by rpfields at 12:49 PM on August 13 [20 favorites]
I don't know that "Maybe he will run out of assholes to serve as his attorney" is a plan I see a lot of hope in, but I am willing to stay after him in any case.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:50 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:50 PM on August 13 [4 favorites]
Fain won the UAW presidency by less than 500 votes, in a run-off; he's from Kokomo, Indiana, and three of his four grandparents worked at auto plants. Fain campaigned with the slogan, “No concessions, no corruption, no tiers,” the final bit "referring to workers hired at the three automakers since 2007 who had a different pay and benefit package than more senior workers." At CNN, last September:
At the end of last year, [Fain] was an underdog candidate from the UAW staff running against the long-entrenched but scandal-ridden caucus that had led the union for decades. Two of the previous three presidents had gone to prison due to the scandal, as did some executives at Fiat Chrysler who had bribed them.
Incumbent President Ray Curry was not implicated. But the scandal, including misappropriation of union funds and taking money from company officials at Chrysler, forced the union to agree to a government monitor to oversee its operations. And as part of that, the union agreed to give the rank-and-file membership a direct vote to pick a president, rather than having the leader chosen at union conventions by elected officials. [Fain's] run for office last year was his first on the national level. Fain finished second in the first vote, with 38%, but only 600 votes behind Curry, or less than 1%. Since Curry had failed to get a majority, a runoff vote was held in the spring. This time Fain edged out Curry by less than 500 votes.
Fain was hired at one of the what was then a Chrysler plant as an electrician in 1994. He served in a variety of union offices at the local level and became a national negotiator during the 2009 bankruptcy at Chrysler and again during contract negotiations in 2011. In 2012, he went on staff at the UAW.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:50 PM on August 13 [30 favorites]
At the end of last year, [Fain] was an underdog candidate from the UAW staff running against the long-entrenched but scandal-ridden caucus that had led the union for decades. Two of the previous three presidents had gone to prison due to the scandal, as did some executives at Fiat Chrysler who had bribed them.
Incumbent President Ray Curry was not implicated. But the scandal, including misappropriation of union funds and taking money from company officials at Chrysler, forced the union to agree to a government monitor to oversee its operations. And as part of that, the union agreed to give the rank-and-file membership a direct vote to pick a president, rather than having the leader chosen at union conventions by elected officials. [Fain's] run for office last year was his first on the national level. Fain finished second in the first vote, with 38%, but only 600 votes behind Curry, or less than 1%. Since Curry had failed to get a majority, a runoff vote was held in the spring. This time Fain edged out Curry by less than 500 votes.
Fain was hired at one of the what was then a Chrysler plant as an electrician in 1994. He served in a variety of union offices at the local level and became a national negotiator during the 2009 bankruptcy at Chrysler and again during contract negotiations in 2011. In 2012, he went on staff at the UAW.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:50 PM on August 13 [30 favorites]
Hell yes. Shawn Fain's speech at the Harris rally in Detroit was FIRE.
The more emphasis on labor and class equality I see from the Democrats, the happier I will be.
posted by tovarisch at 12:53 PM on August 13 [47 favorites]
The more emphasis on labor and class equality I see from the Democrats, the happier I will be.
posted by tovarisch at 12:53 PM on August 13 [47 favorites]
Dear Mr Trump, please talk shit about auto workers at your rallies in the midwestern states. Please do.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:53 PM on August 13 [53 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 12:53 PM on August 13 [53 favorites]
Does anyone else hear Shawn Fain's name and immediately think of Sinn Féin?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:01 PM on August 13 [34 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:01 PM on August 13 [34 favorites]
False cognates, or something along those lines. The Fain surname predates the Sinn Féin political faction (started 1905) by many years. Now certainly his parents might have chosen the name Shawn as a nod at the party, I suppose you'd have to ask them.
posted by axiom at 1:36 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]
posted by axiom at 1:36 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]
btw how's the swedish strike going?
As of last month it's ongoing. I couldn't find anything newer so I'd bet nothing has changed.
posted by Mitheral at 1:47 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]
As of last month it's ongoing. I couldn't find anything newer so I'd bet nothing has changed.
posted by Mitheral at 1:47 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]
> Isn't Chinese battery manufacturing about to make an explosion of low cost suvs for export?
Speaking of Chinese EV batteries and explosions, earlier this month in Korea a Mercedes-Benz EV burst into flames in an underground parking lot in Incheon, destroying 140 vehicles and forcing residents in the apartments above to move to shelters. Mercedes Korea disclosed that the vehicle in question had a battery from Chinese manufacturer Farasis Energy.
From the article,
This fire has created public panic regarding the safety of EVs.
posted by needled at 2:13 PM on August 13 [7 favorites]
Speaking of Chinese EV batteries and explosions, earlier this month in Korea a Mercedes-Benz EV burst into flames in an underground parking lot in Incheon, destroying 140 vehicles and forcing residents in the apartments above to move to shelters. Mercedes Korea disclosed that the vehicle in question had a battery from Chinese manufacturer Farasis Energy.
From the article,
Auto experts say EV fires burn differently than those in cars with internal combustion engines, often lasting longer and being harder to extinguish as they have a tendency to reignite.The same article does note that there is no definitive data currently on which battery brands are more prone to fires.
This fire has created public panic regarding the safety of EVs.
posted by needled at 2:13 PM on August 13 [7 favorites]
Yeah, that happens with Teslas that catch on fire too. These fires have a lot of thermal runway and are very hard to put out. It's a general issue with lithium-ion batteries, especially ones that are big enough to power a car; there's nothing specific to Chinese manufacturing processes that should be particularly scary here.
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:42 PM on August 13 [7 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:42 PM on August 13 [7 favorites]
I learned about Shawn Fain on NPR through the spring during those negotiations and strikes, and loved hearing them cover his speeches and comments. Thank you, NPR.
Some thoughts on that speech, which I hadn't heard yet:
-I love calling JD a sidekick. He's just a weird little sidekick with a lore of couch fucking
-Finally someone calling alternative facts lies. JFC finally. And isn't it weird that they have to make up names for the shit they spew to make them seem legitimate?
-Calling the rapist TFG a scab is powerful, but the implication that he's cheap and will flip-flop at any bidder's request, especially when it's so obvious that the South African emerald mine owning anti-union anti-free speech anti-trans anti-child pro-fascist guy can just buy his allegiance (which worked on twitter: he bought it and now they all spew this shit all the time; it was like he was buying their voices) is out there and clear. Being cheap and a sellout it weird, right? Like, do you care or not?
posted by Snowishberlin at 2:55 PM on August 13 [13 favorites]
Some thoughts on that speech, which I hadn't heard yet:
-I love calling JD a sidekick. He's just a weird little sidekick with a lore of couch fucking
-Finally someone calling alternative facts lies. JFC finally. And isn't it weird that they have to make up names for the shit they spew to make them seem legitimate?
-Calling the rapist TFG a scab is powerful, but the implication that he's cheap and will flip-flop at any bidder's request, especially when it's so obvious that the South African emerald mine owning anti-union anti-free speech anti-trans anti-child pro-fascist guy can just buy his allegiance (which worked on twitter: he bought it and now they all spew this shit all the time; it was like he was buying their voices) is out there and clear. Being cheap and a sellout it weird, right? Like, do you care or not?
posted by Snowishberlin at 2:55 PM on August 13 [13 favorites]
More about Trump and labor:
Notably absent from the list: Teamsters.
posted by pwnguin at 3:04 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]
Notably absent from the list: Teamsters.
posted by pwnguin at 3:04 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]
Re: Teamsters... aren't they union, too? Aren't they the people that load and unload things from ships and trucks and things? Why is that dude there?
posted by Snowishberlin at 3:08 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]
posted by Snowishberlin at 3:08 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]
It's a legitimate charge
Even so, Trump just needs to get a case in front of the corrupted Supreme Court for it to go away.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:17 PM on August 13
Even so, Trump just needs to get a case in front of the corrupted Supreme Court for it to go away.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:17 PM on August 13
Re: Teamsters... aren't they union, too? Aren't they the people that load and unload things from ships and trucks and things? Why is that dude there?
"He called for bipartisan action on labor reform." [axios]
posted by HearHere at 3:37 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]
"He called for bipartisan action on labor reform." [axios]
posted by HearHere at 3:37 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]
A bit of a tanget but are we all still taking "technical difficulties" at face value after Trump's panel with the NABJ? "Audio issues" was his requested cover for trying to strong arm them into last minute format changes and I now assume that's his default play. Probably squeezing more money out of Musk.
posted by muddgirl at 3:48 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 3:48 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]
Re: Teamsters... aren't they union, too? Aren't they the people that load and unload things from ships and trucks and things? Why is that dude there?The Teamsters are currently about three times as large as the UAW. A big part of their membership is in freight and shipping (they represent ~300,000 UPS workers), but Teamsters are found all kinds of professions—for example, I'm on staff for a different union, and we're organizing with the Teamsters. There are Teamster garbage truck drivers, and Teamster cannabis workers and so on. It's a pretty diverse union.
The Teamsters don't do longshore work, though, which is partly what you're thinking of. Longshore workers belong to the International Longhore and Warehouse Union on the West Coast and the International Longshoremen's Association on the East and Gulf Coasts. The ILWU is historically pretty radical, while the ILA is conservative and (like the Teamsters) used to be pretty mobbed up.
A lot of people thought the 2022 election of new blood to Teamster leadership might yield a class warrior like the UAW got with Shawn Fain, but we've been stuck with another Sean (O'Brien), who's been publicly kissing Republican ass lately. It's a massive disappointment, to say the least.
posted by heteronym at 4:22 PM on August 13 [43 favorites]
[TFG] Probably squeezing more money out of Musk.
biteeachothersdicksoff.gif
posted by tzikeh at 4:23 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]
biteeachothersdicksoff.gif
posted by tzikeh at 4:23 PM on August 13 [6 favorites]
A bit of a tanget but are we all still taking "technical difficulties" at face value after Trump's panel with the NABJ?
At the NABJ it seemed to me like the "technical difficulties" affected his ability to hear the graciously assertive journalist next to him but he could hear the Fox entertainer that was furthest away. Pretending he can't hear is one of his things:
At the NABJ it seemed to me like the "technical difficulties" affected his ability to hear the graciously assertive journalist next to him but he could hear the Fox entertainer that was furthest away. Pretending he can't hear is one of his things:
Remember when I used to always walk up to the press under the helicopter or under the wing of the plane and talk to them? I loved it because if I didn't like their question, I can say "can't hear you, the helicopters."posted by kirkaracha at 4:27 PM on August 13 [12 favorites]
These billionaires need to be told taught the power of strength in numbers.
They got a taste of it over the pandemic and didn’t like it.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:14 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]
They got a taste of it over the pandemic and didn’t like it.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:14 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]
Anybody see Sean O’Brien since the RNC?
His comments after the Musk "chat": "Firing workers for organizing, striking, and exercising their rights as Americans is economic terrorism."
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:42 PM on August 13 [17 favorites]
His comments after the Musk "chat": "Firing workers for organizing, striking, and exercising their rights as Americans is economic terrorism."
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:42 PM on August 13 [17 favorites]
This fire has created public panic regarding the safety of EVs.
Perception, not reality. (n.b., this is based on cars sold not miles driven, but it's nearly 50x for ICEs.)
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:50 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]
Perception, not reality. (n.b., this is based on cars sold not miles driven, but it's nearly 50x for ICEs.)
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:50 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]
His comments after the Musk "chat": "Firing workers for organizing, striking, and exercising their rights as Americans is economic terrorism."
I guess that his VP openly declaring that he will be running in opposition reminded O'Brien of who he should be fighting.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:58 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]
I guess that his VP openly declaring that he will be running in opposition reminded O'Brien of who he should be fighting.
posted by NoxAeternum at 5:58 PM on August 13 [8 favorites]
Does Trump pay his lawyers now?
Who is gonna tell George that US laws don't apply to the EU?
posted by jeffburdges at 6:02 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]
Who is gonna tell George that US laws don't apply to the EU?
posted by jeffburdges at 6:02 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]
A lot of people thought the 2022 election of new blood to Teamster leadership might yield a class warrior like the UAW got with Shawn Fain, but we've been stuck with another Sean (O'Brien), who's been publicly kissing Republican ass lately. It's a massive disappointment, to say the least.
they seem to be sending me more mail about their leadership and internal election controversies than about contract and gov't issues
i don't know why anyone should expect much from them as i never did
i'm really not entirely clear on the trump/musk/uaw lawsuit here - is tesla a company the uaw is trying to organize, or have they? - i can see a lawsuit there
but trump? - is he involved in negotiations with the uaw in some shop somewhere? - if he's not a party to any uaw negotiations how can they say he has violated federal labor laws by offering us his numbheaded, shitty opinions?
posted by pyramid termite at 6:09 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]
they seem to be sending me more mail about their leadership and internal election controversies than about contract and gov't issues
i don't know why anyone should expect much from them as i never did
i'm really not entirely clear on the trump/musk/uaw lawsuit here - is tesla a company the uaw is trying to organize, or have they? - i can see a lawsuit there
but trump? - is he involved in negotiations with the uaw in some shop somewhere? - if he's not a party to any uaw negotiations how can they say he has violated federal labor laws by offering us his numbheaded, shitty opinions?
posted by pyramid termite at 6:09 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]
There was a good Jacobin article about Teamster president Sean O'Brien's decision to speak at the RNC that someone linked in a previous GOP thread; it covers a lot, from his "we're not beholden to any party" rationale to the backlash against him: The Billionaires’ Party and the Union Leader.
It will be interesting to see if anyone from the Teamsters speaks at the DNC next week. Maybe the vice president who said he'll run against O'Brien? Up until this year and O'Brien's flirtation with Trump, most everything I'd heard about him had been mixed but generally positive, with articles like this one from June 2023 praising his tough-as-nails negotiating style while also noting complaints about his abrasive management style.
It would be stupid of the Dems to not have a high-level Teamsters person speak, and they don't seem to be stupid at the moment. But I can't see them giving O'Brien the stage, so maybe they'll just put the UAW's Shawn Fain up there and leave the Teamsters in the cold?
posted by mediareport at 7:56 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]
It will be interesting to see if anyone from the Teamsters speaks at the DNC next week. Maybe the vice president who said he'll run against O'Brien? Up until this year and O'Brien's flirtation with Trump, most everything I'd heard about him had been mixed but generally positive, with articles like this one from June 2023 praising his tough-as-nails negotiating style while also noting complaints about his abrasive management style.
It would be stupid of the Dems to not have a high-level Teamsters person speak, and they don't seem to be stupid at the moment. But I can't see them giving O'Brien the stage, so maybe they'll just put the UAW's Shawn Fain up there and leave the Teamsters in the cold?
posted by mediareport at 7:56 PM on August 13 [3 favorites]
pyramid termite, Musk is named in the suit, as he's Tesla's (overpaid) CEO; "Tesla is the only major American auto manufacturer not represented by a union in the US as of January 2024. None of the unionization attempts between 2016–2023 by United Auto Workers (UAW), United Steelworkers (USW), International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW), and Workers United were successful."
Trump's anti-union stance is decades old; articles with some of this history, from the IBEW's July 2016 look into Trump's poor labor practices (many sources linked within the piece) & December 2016's "Trump the Union-Busting Employer Will Now Dictate Nation’s Labor Policy" at The American Prospect. As the latter noted, "As the employer of some 34,000 people, Trump is hardly a disinterested party when it comes to dictating national labor and employment policy;" Trump had endless conflicts of interest while in office, and "resumed" his business career after leaving the White House.
When Trump praised Musk for his union-busting practices ("they go on strike and you say, ‘That’s okay, you’re all gone. You’re all gone. So, every one of you is gone'"), and Musk acknowledging said practices, on a podcast with an audience of 1 million for that broadcast...
Section 7 of the National Labor Relations Act (the Act) guarantees employees "the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection," as well as the right "to refrain from any or all such activities." Section 8(a)(1) of the Act makes it an unfair labor practice for an employer "to interfere with, restrain, or coerce employees in the exercise of the rights guaranteed in Section 7" of the Act. ("Interfering with Employee Rights," National Labor Relations Board, nlrb.gov) Right to Strike and Picket.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:34 PM on August 13 [12 favorites]
Trump's anti-union stance is decades old; articles with some of this history, from the IBEW's July 2016 look into Trump's poor labor practices (many sources linked within the piece) & December 2016's "Trump the Union-Busting Employer Will Now Dictate Nation’s Labor Policy" at The American Prospect. As the latter noted, "As the employer of some 34,000 people, Trump is hardly a disinterested party when it comes to dictating national labor and employment policy;" Trump had endless conflicts of interest while in office, and "resumed" his business career after leaving the White House.
When Trump praised Musk for his union-busting practices ("they go on strike and you say, ‘That’s okay, you’re all gone. You’re all gone. So, every one of you is gone'"), and Musk acknowledging said practices, on a podcast with an audience of 1 million for that broadcast...
Section 7 of the National Labor Relations Act (the Act) guarantees employees "the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid or protection," as well as the right "to refrain from any or all such activities." Section 8(a)(1) of the Act makes it an unfair labor practice for an employer "to interfere with, restrain, or coerce employees in the exercise of the rights guaranteed in Section 7" of the Act. ("Interfering with Employee Rights," National Labor Relations Board, nlrb.gov) Right to Strike and Picket.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:34 PM on August 13 [12 favorites]
I’m very grateful for this thread. Several times I've been listening to NPR and had a moment of puzzlement as to why the IRA would be getting involved with an American union. Now I know I’m not alone.
posted by bunderful at 9:00 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]
posted by bunderful at 9:00 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]
psst, a former Irish Republican Army member, Mike Quill, co-founded the Transport Workers Union of America and served as its president for years
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:57 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:57 PM on August 13 [5 favorites]
yes, but where does the uaw get standing in a suit against trump? do they represent any of his employees? are they trying to?
posted by pyramid termite at 4:19 AM on August 14
posted by pyramid termite at 4:19 AM on August 14
If his parents wanted his name to mimic Sinn Fein they would have spelled his first name Sean, not Shawn.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:35 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:35 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
yes, but where does the uaw get standing in a suit against trump? do they represent any of his employees? are they trying to?
Some of the language in these articles is a bit confusing, and the responses from the Trump campaign don't help by using the terms interchangeably (perhaps on purpose), but I don't think the UAW is filing a lawsuit; they're raising a complaint with the National Labor Relations Board, who then will decide whether to act or not, no?
In any case, here's an article from January called Why There Is No Standing Requirement for Filing NLRA Charges, which cites an NLRB rule clarification stating that "[a]ny person may file a charge alleging that any person has engaged in or is engaging in any unfair labor practice affecting commerce," and additionally mentions that "[t]he Supreme Court has also recognized that there is no NLRA standing requirement since 1943."
Or here's an explainer from On Labor from 2017 when the United Labor Union Local 100 (who generally represent service workers in the south) filed NLRA charges against the Dallas Cowboys over their treatment of protesting NFL players, which includes: "To a large extent, the charge filing process is simply a means of giving the NLRB General Counsel notice that a violation of rights may have occurred and should be investigated. Such notice is important because the General Counsel is precluded from going out and looking for violations on his or her own initiative."
posted by nobody at 5:48 AM on August 14 [14 favorites]
Some of the language in these articles is a bit confusing, and the responses from the Trump campaign don't help by using the terms interchangeably (perhaps on purpose), but I don't think the UAW is filing a lawsuit; they're raising a complaint with the National Labor Relations Board, who then will decide whether to act or not, no?
In any case, here's an article from January called Why There Is No Standing Requirement for Filing NLRA Charges, which cites an NLRB rule clarification stating that "[a]ny person may file a charge alleging that any person has engaged in or is engaging in any unfair labor practice affecting commerce," and additionally mentions that "[t]he Supreme Court has also recognized that there is no NLRA standing requirement since 1943."
Or here's an explainer from On Labor from 2017 when the United Labor Union Local 100 (who generally represent service workers in the south) filed NLRA charges against the Dallas Cowboys over their treatment of protesting NFL players, which includes: "To a large extent, the charge filing process is simply a means of giving the NLRB General Counsel notice that a violation of rights may have occurred and should be investigated. Such notice is important because the General Counsel is precluded from going out and looking for violations on his or her own initiative."
posted by nobody at 5:48 AM on August 14 [14 favorites]
It will be interesting to see if anyone from the Teamsters speaks at the DNC next week. Maybe the vice president who said he'll run against O'Brien?I've heard a rumor that the DNC has offered a speaking slot to someone else in the Teamster hierarchy, but I have no idea how accurate that is. I know the Teamsters National Black Caucus has endorsed Harris, so maybe one of their members might speak. Palmer, the VP you mentioned, wouldn't be a bad choice.
posted by heteronym at 5:52 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
Folks tend to forget the Teamsters endorsed Reagan in both 1980 and 1984. And both the Teamsters and the UAW have significant percentages of members who routinely vote for the GOP. I can't look for it now but I recall reading union leadership says it's between 25 and 30%, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's higher than that.
posted by mediareport at 6:20 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 6:20 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
ok, they don't need standing - then, they can have at him
posted by pyramid termite at 6:58 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 6:58 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
Folks tend to forget the Teamsters endorsed Reagan in both 1980 and 1984.
The situation in 80/84 was very different. The Teamsters moved to support Reagan because of Carter's alienation of unions, and Reagan had been a union head (albeit one who sold his brethren out to HUAC, which should have given them pause.) In comparison, it's been noted that the Biden Administration has been one of the most pro-union in the past few decades, while Trump has been a scab since time immemorial.
O'Brien speaking to the RNC made no sense whatsoever.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:32 AM on August 14 [3 favorites]
The situation in 80/84 was very different. The Teamsters moved to support Reagan because of Carter's alienation of unions, and Reagan had been a union head (albeit one who sold his brethren out to HUAC, which should have given them pause.) In comparison, it's been noted that the Biden Administration has been one of the most pro-union in the past few decades, while Trump has been a scab since time immemorial.
O'Brien speaking to the RNC made no sense whatsoever.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:32 AM on August 14 [3 favorites]
Well, I can at least understand O'Brien's argument for hedging his bets, especially given the horrible way Biden kept insisting he was up to the task when everyone could see he wasn't. Things looked very different last month. Was O'Brien trying to shore up right-wing support in the Teamsters for his own position? Probably. Was there at least some minimal value in standing up in front of the RNC crowd and talking about how corporations like Amazon were regularly screwing over workers? I say yes.
Overall, was it a smart move politically? Well, with the wonderful benefit of hindsight, clearly no.
NoxAeternum, what was your sense of O'Brien before the RNC thing? I was seeing articles about a new, fighting bulldog who'd be much better than the entrenched - and deeply corrupt - previous leadership. Was that not your impression? Because if that was even partly true, I'm not sure that O'Brien miscalculating with the RNC is worth tossing him entirely to the curb. But, you know, I follow union stuff in a relatively superficial way, so I'm happy to defer to folks with more knowledge and direct experience.
posted by mediareport at 8:43 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
Overall, was it a smart move politically? Well, with the wonderful benefit of hindsight, clearly no.
NoxAeternum, what was your sense of O'Brien before the RNC thing? I was seeing articles about a new, fighting bulldog who'd be much better than the entrenched - and deeply corrupt - previous leadership. Was that not your impression? Because if that was even partly true, I'm not sure that O'Brien miscalculating with the RNC is worth tossing him entirely to the curb. But, you know, I follow union stuff in a relatively superficial way, so I'm happy to defer to folks with more knowledge and direct experience.
posted by mediareport at 8:43 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
I honestly recommend reading Palmer's letter calling out O'Brien, as he lists a number of grievances with him - the RNC spot was just the cherry on top of a pile of bad decisions. The sense I'm getting is that O'Brien plays the union bulldog, but doesn't have the foresight or background that Fain does.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:04 AM on August 14 [4 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:04 AM on August 14 [4 favorites]
especially given the horrible way Biden kept insisting he was up to the task when everyone could see he wasn't.
Yes, it was so horrible that the only guy who has ever beat Donald Trump in an election insisted that he could beat Donald Trump in an election.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:59 AM on August 14 [8 favorites]
Yes, it was so horrible that the only guy who has ever beat Donald Trump in an election insisted that he could beat Donald Trump in an election.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:59 AM on August 14 [8 favorites]
FWIW, people in my union circles think O'Brien speaking at the RNC was a shitty thing to do.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 10:00 AM on August 14
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 10:00 AM on August 14
Elon related but fun: a pedantic review of the las vegas loop
posted by Artw at 10:15 AM on August 14
posted by Artw at 10:15 AM on August 14
And both the Teamsters and the UAW have significant percentages of members who routinely vote for the GOP.
White… er, I mean quite true.
I used to work at a GM assembly plant, and can tell you that there were plenty of wingnuts around. Including, I shit you not, an honestogod Christian Identity skinhead who briefly (but not near briefly enough) worked directly across from me on the line.
This was pre-Trump (think McCain/Palin enthusiasts in ‘07-08), but I have no doubt he’s got supporters among the pale-complexioned rank and file.
posted by non canadian guy at 10:16 AM on August 14 [4 favorites]
White… er, I mean quite true.
I used to work at a GM assembly plant, and can tell you that there were plenty of wingnuts around. Including, I shit you not, an honestogod Christian Identity skinhead who briefly (but not near briefly enough) worked directly across from me on the line.
This was pre-Trump (think McCain/Palin enthusiasts in ‘07-08), but I have no doubt he’s got supporters among the pale-complexioned rank and file.
posted by non canadian guy at 10:16 AM on August 14 [4 favorites]
I thought the thing with O’Brien cozying up to Republicans was
a.) him choosing to believe for whatever reason in the idea of the party realigning to be more economically populist
b.) him thinking that the portion of membership that is sympathetic to Trump on immigration and cultural issues is substantial enough that he can get away with it.
It’s been reported that Trump made some positive statements about unions in meeting with him (though also framed a bit as quid pro quo from the beginning) but of course he wasn’t going to be able to keep that up for more than a month so O’Brien ends up looking like an idiot at best.
posted by atoxyl at 10:48 AM on August 14 [5 favorites]
a.) him choosing to believe for whatever reason in the idea of the party realigning to be more economically populist
b.) him thinking that the portion of membership that is sympathetic to Trump on immigration and cultural issues is substantial enough that he can get away with it.
It’s been reported that Trump made some positive statements about unions in meeting with him (though also framed a bit as quid pro quo from the beginning) but of course he wasn’t going to be able to keep that up for more than a month so O’Brien ends up looking like an idiot at best.
posted by atoxyl at 10:48 AM on August 14 [5 favorites]
I honestly recommend reading Palmer's letter calling out O'Brien
Yeah, I saw that, and some of what Palmer says was in the WaPo article I linked, which I, too, honestly recommend. It has great stuff about O'Brien's negatives as well as positives. And I'll note again I'm no expert on the Teamsters, but Palmer trying to paint O'Brien as soft in the UPS negotiations rings a bit hollow, since a big part of the reason O'Brien won the presidency in the first place was that he ran to oppose stuff like this from the previous leaders:
With O’Brien sidelined, the Hoffa administration’s approach to the UPS negotiations backfired spectacularly. In October 2018, workers voted by 54 percent to reject a contract that created a tier of lower-paid, part-time drivers; Teamsters HQ decided to push it through anyway, invoking a little-used constitutional provision that required a two-thirds majority if less than half the membership voted. Amid the rank-and-file uproar that followed, O’Brien — already campaigning for Hoffa’s job, with Zuckerman as his running mate — saw opportunity. Promising a better contract next time, they defeated Hoffa’s candidate with 67 percent of the vote. [emphasis added]
In contrast, the UPS contract O'Brien's team negotiated passed with 86% of the vote, "the highest vote for a contract in the history of the Teamsters at UPS."
I will acknowledge that challenging Oklahoma Senator (and former MMA fighter) Markwayne Mullin to a fistfight was probably not the most productive union strategy, but ya gotta admit it led to some pretty hilarious political theater. It started in this hearing, with Mullin on a rant against unions and O'Brien's salary compared to bottom-line UPS workers, with O'Brien saying at 2:56 that Mullin's numbers were wrong and he was "out of line", which led Mullin to angrily tell him "you need to shut your mouth", which led O'Brien to sneer "tough guy", which yeah didn't go over well. Bernie has to play Papa to the little boys, but O'Brien gets to make his point.
Then, a couple months later (there may have been more intervening), came this tweet from O'Brien:
Greedy CEO who pretends like he’s self made. In reality, just a clown & fraud. Always has been, always will be. Quit the tough guy act in these senate hearings. You know where to find me. Anyplace, Anytime cowboy. #LittleManSyndrome
O'Brien included a photo of Mullin at a debate, circling (in pink, of course) the box Mullin was standing on behind the podium to make him look equal in height to his taller opponent. When Mullin screenshotted the tweet to reply, he left that part out. (Vice had all the deets if you don't click Twitter links.)
The two studs met again in a hearing a few months later, as seen in this delightful video from the Senate floor, where they were both ready to beat each other up right there and then. Bernie Sanders was once again forced to play Papa to the furious little boys; it's a top 5 most hilariously stupid American political moment, which is really saying something in these times.
Um, what was I talking about again? I forget. Oh, right: Palmer's "I'm running" statement may not be the be-all/end-all opinion about O'Brien's tenure.
posted by mediareport at 10:48 AM on August 14 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I saw that, and some of what Palmer says was in the WaPo article I linked, which I, too, honestly recommend. It has great stuff about O'Brien's negatives as well as positives. And I'll note again I'm no expert on the Teamsters, but Palmer trying to paint O'Brien as soft in the UPS negotiations rings a bit hollow, since a big part of the reason O'Brien won the presidency in the first place was that he ran to oppose stuff like this from the previous leaders:
With O’Brien sidelined, the Hoffa administration’s approach to the UPS negotiations backfired spectacularly. In October 2018, workers voted by 54 percent to reject a contract that created a tier of lower-paid, part-time drivers; Teamsters HQ decided to push it through anyway, invoking a little-used constitutional provision that required a two-thirds majority if less than half the membership voted. Amid the rank-and-file uproar that followed, O’Brien — already campaigning for Hoffa’s job, with Zuckerman as his running mate — saw opportunity. Promising a better contract next time, they defeated Hoffa’s candidate with 67 percent of the vote. [emphasis added]
In contrast, the UPS contract O'Brien's team negotiated passed with 86% of the vote, "the highest vote for a contract in the history of the Teamsters at UPS."
I will acknowledge that challenging Oklahoma Senator (and former MMA fighter) Markwayne Mullin to a fistfight was probably not the most productive union strategy, but ya gotta admit it led to some pretty hilarious political theater. It started in this hearing, with Mullin on a rant against unions and O'Brien's salary compared to bottom-line UPS workers, with O'Brien saying at 2:56 that Mullin's numbers were wrong and he was "out of line", which led Mullin to angrily tell him "you need to shut your mouth", which led O'Brien to sneer "tough guy", which yeah didn't go over well. Bernie has to play Papa to the little boys, but O'Brien gets to make his point.
Then, a couple months later (there may have been more intervening), came this tweet from O'Brien:
Greedy CEO who pretends like he’s self made. In reality, just a clown & fraud. Always has been, always will be. Quit the tough guy act in these senate hearings. You know where to find me. Anyplace, Anytime cowboy. #LittleManSyndrome
O'Brien included a photo of Mullin at a debate, circling (in pink, of course) the box Mullin was standing on behind the podium to make him look equal in height to his taller opponent. When Mullin screenshotted the tweet to reply, he left that part out. (Vice had all the deets if you don't click Twitter links.)
The two studs met again in a hearing a few months later, as seen in this delightful video from the Senate floor, where they were both ready to beat each other up right there and then. Bernie Sanders was once again forced to play Papa to the furious little boys; it's a top 5 most hilariously stupid American political moment, which is really saying something in these times.
Um, what was I talking about again? I forget. Oh, right: Palmer's "I'm running" statement may not be the be-all/end-all opinion about O'Brien's tenure.
posted by mediareport at 10:48 AM on August 14 [6 favorites]
Yes, it was so horrible that the only guy who has ever beat Donald Trump in an election insisted that he could beat Donald Trump in an election.
Oh god I'm sorry, didn't mean to re-open litigation on that one.
FWIW, people in my union circles think O'Brien speaking at the RNC was a shitty thing to do.
As do I. On balance, it was both strategically stupid and morally disgusting.
posted by mediareport at 10:50 AM on August 14 [4 favorites]
Oh god I'm sorry, didn't mean to re-open litigation on that one.
FWIW, people in my union circles think O'Brien speaking at the RNC was a shitty thing to do.
As do I. On balance, it was both strategically stupid and morally disgusting.
posted by mediareport at 10:50 AM on August 14 [4 favorites]
MetaFilter: strategically stupid and morally disgusting
posted by kirkaracha at 11:11 AM on August 14 [6 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 11:11 AM on August 14 [6 favorites]
challenging Oklahoma Senator (and former MMA fighter) Markwayne Mullin to a fistfight was probably not the most productive union strategy
In my head, the conversation went like this:
Mullin: I command you to shut up!
O'Brien: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!
Mullin: Bloody peasant!
O'Brien: Oh what a giveaway, did you hear that?
posted by pwnguin at 11:43 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
In my head, the conversation went like this:
Mullin: I command you to shut up!
O'Brien: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm being repressed!
Mullin: Bloody peasant!
O'Brien: Oh what a giveaway, did you hear that?
posted by pwnguin at 11:43 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
especially given the horrible way Biden kept insisting he was up to the task when everyone could see he wasn't.
Yes, it was so horrible that the only guy who has ever beat Donald Trump in an election insisted that he could beat Donald Trump in an election.
Ooh, it's time to relitigate the events of July 2024 already?
posted by jackbishop at 12:26 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]
Yes, it was so horrible that the only guy who has ever beat Donald Trump in an election insisted that he could beat Donald Trump in an election.
Ooh, it's time to relitigate the events of July 2024 already?
posted by jackbishop at 12:26 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]
Gonna be crazy if two out of three people beat Donald Trump because supporters of the third one already get real weird about why she lost.
posted by Artw at 12:38 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 12:38 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
O'Brien apparently apologized and got buddy-buddy with Mullen after the tough-guy shit in the Senate. Real inspiring, dude.
posted by heteronym at 2:22 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
posted by heteronym at 2:22 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
strategically stupid and morally disgusting
...Trump/Vance 24!
posted by freya_lamb at 4:36 PM on August 14 [6 favorites]
...Trump/Vance 24!
posted by freya_lamb at 4:36 PM on August 14 [6 favorites]
O'Brien apparently apologized and got buddy-buddy with Mullen after the tough-guy shit in the Senate.
To be fair, that's all coming from Mullin.
To be fair in the opposite direction, TuffBoys hugging it out after a public spat is a boring cliche for a reason, and I can totally see a guy like O'Brien falling into that stuff.
His sense of strategy is questionable at this point. Is he playing a smart long game? Eh, maybe. Is he flying in the face of what the majority of his union wants him to do? Seems that answer is yes, which will be a problem for him.
posted by mediareport at 8:17 AM on August 15
To be fair, that's all coming from Mullin.
To be fair in the opposite direction, TuffBoys hugging it out after a public spat is a boring cliche for a reason, and I can totally see a guy like O'Brien falling into that stuff.
His sense of strategy is questionable at this point. Is he playing a smart long game? Eh, maybe. Is he flying in the face of what the majority of his union wants him to do? Seems that answer is yes, which will be a problem for him.
posted by mediareport at 8:17 AM on August 15
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