well
August 14, 2024 5:58 AM Subscribe
What they found was that the readings collected by Insight are best explained by the presence under the surface of the Red Planet of a deep layer of fractured igneous rock saturated with liquid water [new atlas; uc berkeley]
Time for the biggest fracking project in history.
posted by mittens at 7:01 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
posted by mittens at 7:01 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
Journey to the Centre of Mars.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:32 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:32 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
Holy shit. I always kinda believed in my bones that there would be aquifers thanks to KSR's Red Mars, but it's awesome to see actual evidence – from a dead probe no less.
posted by lucidium at 7:33 AM on August 14 [6 favorites]
posted by lucidium at 7:33 AM on August 14 [6 favorites]
Mod note: One removed. The thread isn't about Elon Musk, so let's avoid bringing him into it, thanks!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:04 AM on August 14 [14 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:04 AM on August 14 [14 favorites]
According to the team, the layer is 11.5 to 20 km (7 to 13 miles) beneath the surface, which means reaching that giant aquifer, much less tapping it, would be a major engineering challenge on Earth, to say the very least, let alone in the harsh environment of Mars.
posted by armoir from antproof case at 8:31 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
posted by armoir from antproof case at 8:31 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
The article mentions that Mars' lack of a magnetic field would let solar winds scrape away all the surface water. Is there any way to...make it have a magnetic field? (I don't even know if that's a stupid question.)
posted by mittens at 9:16 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
posted by mittens at 9:16 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
In Surviving Mars, you build artificial Magnetic Field Generators as part of the terraforming project. I guess that's the best idea we have for a science fiction answer?
It seems unlikely, since our own planet's magnetic field is generated by something on the scale of the planet's interior itself.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 9:21 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
It seems unlikely, since our own planet's magnetic field is generated by something on the scale of the planet's interior itself.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 9:21 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
Mars does have very strong crustal magnetic fields, more than 30 times stronger than those of Earth. [nasa]
posted by HearHere at 9:51 AM on August 14
posted by HearHere at 9:51 AM on August 14
This could prove beneficial to chances of humans settling mars. If it turns out the active martian biosphere is confined to deep aquifers then perhaps the surface is free real estate!
posted by neonamber at 9:54 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
posted by neonamber at 9:54 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
Is there a way to provide a magnetic field for Mars?
So, how could we jump start Mars’s magnetic field? First we would have to somehow liquefy the outer core of the planet. Then the planet’s own rotation would create a dynamo and generate a magnetic field like Earth’s. This could be done using an extremely large nuclear bomb which would be placed near the core of the planet.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:59 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
So, how could we jump start Mars’s magnetic field? First we would have to somehow liquefy the outer core of the planet. Then the planet’s own rotation would create a dynamo and generate a magnetic field like Earth’s. This could be done using an extremely large nuclear bomb which would be placed near the core of the planet.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:59 AM on August 14 [1 favorite]
This could be done using an extremely large nuclear bomb which would be placed near the core of the planet.
Hold on, did we put SPECTRE in charge?
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:01 AM on August 14 [5 favorites]
Hold on, did we put SPECTRE in charge?
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 10:01 AM on August 14 [5 favorites]
NASA proposes a magnetic shield to protect Mars' atmosphere
No need to nuke Mars; NASA thinks that if we installed a device in space at Mars's L1 Lagrange point that could generate "a magnetic dipole field at a level of perhaps 1 or 2 Tesla (or 10,000 to 20,000 Gauss)" that might serve "as an active shield against the solar wind" and allow the atmosphere to regenerate. The initial gas retention should raise the temperature enough to start melting the solid CO2, which would then cause a greenhouse effect and relatively rapid warming. Not sure if / when it would get warm enough to melt the surface water and avoid the need to dig 11 km into the surface to reach this aquifer...
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 10:23 AM on August 14 [5 favorites]
No need to nuke Mars; NASA thinks that if we installed a device in space at Mars's L1 Lagrange point that could generate "a magnetic dipole field at a level of perhaps 1 or 2 Tesla (or 10,000 to 20,000 Gauss)" that might serve "as an active shield against the solar wind" and allow the atmosphere to regenerate. The initial gas retention should raise the temperature enough to start melting the solid CO2, which would then cause a greenhouse effect and relatively rapid warming. Not sure if / when it would get warm enough to melt the surface water and avoid the need to dig 11 km into the surface to reach this aquifer...
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 10:23 AM on August 14 [5 favorites]
The article mentions that Mars' lack of a magnetic field would let solar winds scrape away all the surface water.
A couple years ago an astronomer friend of mine told me the lack of a magnetic field and it's protection from solar radiation is why colonizing Mars will never be feasible (at least in any way conforming to popular imagination). Not because of the surface water problem, although, yes, that's a problem -- it's that people will never be able to live on the surface without heavy radiation shielding everywhere they are. That also means things like no large-scale agriculture, which, of course, would be necessary for sustaining any sizable population.
posted by Pedantzilla at 10:24 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
A couple years ago an astronomer friend of mine told me the lack of a magnetic field and it's protection from solar radiation is why colonizing Mars will never be feasible (at least in any way conforming to popular imagination). Not because of the surface water problem, although, yes, that's a problem -- it's that people will never be able to live on the surface without heavy radiation shielding everywhere they are. That also means things like no large-scale agriculture, which, of course, would be necessary for sustaining any sizable population.
posted by Pedantzilla at 10:24 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
Hold on, did we put SPECTRE in charge?
No, but Hilary Swank's agents are on the phone.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:34 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
No, but Hilary Swank's agents are on the phone.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:34 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
Does this mean - in theory - that there could be, like...fish or fish-adjacent creatures in that water? SyFy gearing up for "SHARKS OF MARS" series?
posted by davidmsc at 10:58 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
posted by davidmsc at 10:58 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
> Is there any way to...make it have a magnetic field?
This paper looks into what the numbers would be like, finding on the order of hundred billion nuclear bombs to melt the core, or a hundred million kilometres of carbon nano tube to build a solenoid shield at L1. They suggest instead using particle accelerators on Phobos to maintain a charged plasma torus in that orbit, apparently only needing tens of kg a day, which seems implausibly low me.
posted by lucidium at 11:04 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
This paper looks into what the numbers would be like, finding on the order of hundred billion nuclear bombs to melt the core, or a hundred million kilometres of carbon nano tube to build a solenoid shield at L1. They suggest instead using particle accelerators on Phobos to maintain a charged plasma torus in that orbit, apparently only needing tens of kg a day, which seems implausibly low me.
posted by lucidium at 11:04 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
SyFy gearing up for "SHARKS OF MARS" series?
They're going to need to have an Anchorman-style back-alley-gang-fight against The History Channel's "Ancient Aliens" staff and the people at Discovery Channel in charge of "Shark Week".
posted by AzraelBrown at 12:26 PM on August 14 [3 favorites]
They're going to need to have an Anchorman-style back-alley-gang-fight against The History Channel's "Ancient Aliens" staff and the people at Discovery Channel in charge of "Shark Week".
posted by AzraelBrown at 12:26 PM on August 14 [3 favorites]
do most planets have magnetic fields? Is earth or Mars the outlier?
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:10 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:10 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
With the exception of Mercury, Mars, and Venus, all of the planets studied by spacecraft have strong magnetic fields [sciencedirect]
> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/scientists-drill-deeper-into-earths-mantle-than-ever-before-probing-for-the-origin-of-life-on-earth-180984869/
edit:Mars?
posted by HearHere at 2:27 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/scientists-drill-deeper-into-earths-mantle-than-ever-before-probing-for-the-origin-of-life-on-earth-180984869/
edit:
posted by HearHere at 2:27 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
In order for humans to live on Mars, we'll probably have to dig deep and go underground. Which doesn't sound sexy, but frankly I'm shocked at the number of sci-fi, "let's live on Mars" geeks haven't considered this: the dwarf mines of Mars! We've seen all those great images of dwarf cities in Lord of the Rings media, let's take that idea to Mars!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:37 PM on August 14 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:37 PM on August 14 [3 favorites]
Surviving Mars has an expansion focused on living underground and it's great for avoiding the meteor storms and other disasters, so the idea is out there and you can play out that fantasy already. I haven't tried a full dwarf playthrough, but I think you'd still need a significant presence on the surface to maintain rocket launch pads.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 2:49 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
posted by I-Write-Essays at 2:49 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
I can fookin' live underground here on Earth for free man.
posted by torokunai at 3:26 PM on August 14 [4 favorites]
posted by torokunai at 3:26 PM on August 14 [4 favorites]
Metafilter: dig deep and go underground
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:41 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 3:41 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
This could be done using an extremely large nuclear bomb which would be placed near the core of the planet.
If I remember this correct Earth did it by getting whacked by Theia good and hard and liquified the whole works. One glob coalesced into the moon and the rest reformed Earth with the densest materials gravitating toward the center and the lighter stuff on top. So it's solid iron in the middle that's crazy hot but stays solid due to the extreme pressures. It's cool enough for us to live on the bits floating atop the mostly magma interior 'cause things cool from the outside in. It's still magma in the middle because it just takes that long for something this big to cool completely (and interior radiation that slows the cooling). I believe the sun turning into a red giant will be a problem long before the planet's core cooling will be a problem. We're so small and space is so bonkers.
Does Mars really need ALL of it's moons? Should only take a billion years or two to cool off enough to live on.
posted by VTX at 4:54 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]
If I remember this correct Earth did it by getting whacked by Theia good and hard and liquified the whole works. One glob coalesced into the moon and the rest reformed Earth with the densest materials gravitating toward the center and the lighter stuff on top. So it's solid iron in the middle that's crazy hot but stays solid due to the extreme pressures. It's cool enough for us to live on the bits floating atop the mostly magma interior 'cause things cool from the outside in. It's still magma in the middle because it just takes that long for something this big to cool completely (and interior radiation that slows the cooling). I believe the sun turning into a red giant will be a problem long before the planet's core cooling will be a problem. We're so small and space is so bonkers.
Does Mars really need ALL of it's moons? Should only take a billion years or two to cool off enough to live on.
posted by VTX at 4:54 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]
Repurpose the Death Star into a giant microwave. Instead of blowing the planet up, it just cooks it from the inside out.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 4:59 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
posted by I-Write-Essays at 4:59 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
With the exception of Mercury, Mars, and Venus, all of the planets studied by spacecraft have strong magnetic fields
Mercury, Mars, Venus. Our xenophobic leaders activated the magnetic field nullifiers, destroying your civilizations. Forgive us.
posted by otherchaz at 7:05 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
Mercury, Mars, Venus. Our xenophobic leaders activated the magnetic field nullifiers, destroying your civilizations. Forgive us.
posted by otherchaz at 7:05 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
With the exception of Mercury, Mars, and Venus, all of the planets studied by spacecraft have strong magnetic fields
Dang, I always liked imagining aliens discovering the Earth.
"But how can there be so much carbon-based life with so little atmosphere?"
"The planet has a liquid iron dynamo at its core that generates a magnetic force-field shielding the entire planet from solar radiation."
"There's no way that can be natural...can it?"
"Wait till you see the apparent sizes of its moon and sun from the surface."
posted by straight at 9:12 PM on August 14 [9 favorites]
Dang, I always liked imagining aliens discovering the Earth.
"But how can there be so much carbon-based life with so little atmosphere?"
"The planet has a liquid iron dynamo at its core that generates a magnetic force-field shielding the entire planet from solar radiation."
"There's no way that can be natural...can it?"
"Wait till you see the apparent sizes of its moon and sun from the surface."
posted by straight at 9:12 PM on August 14 [9 favorites]
According to the team, the layer is 11.5 to 20 km (7 to 13 miles) beneath the surface
Uff. For comparison, the deepest hole ever dug on Earth is about 12 km deep. And it took 20 years.
"So you're saying it's possible!"
posted by straight at 9:26 PM on August 14 [4 favorites]
Uff. For comparison, the deepest hole ever dug on Earth is about 12 km deep. And it took 20 years.
"So you're saying it's possible!"
posted by straight at 9:26 PM on August 14 [4 favorites]
Dropping Mars moons probably won't be enough to liquefy the core, if this impact wasn't enough.
I don't think the biggest issue for human settlement on Mars is a lack of water, it's that the soil is poisonous to humans.
"Anybody who is saying they want to go live on the surface of Mars better think about the interaction of perchlorate with the human body," he warned. "At one-half percent, that's a huge amount. Very small amounts are considered toxic. So you'd better have a plan to deal with the poisons on the surface."
Any humans exploring Mars, Smith said, will find it hard to avoid the finest of dust particles. "It'll get into everything…certainly into your habitat."
posted by chromecow at 10:23 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]
I don't think the biggest issue for human settlement on Mars is a lack of water, it's that the soil is poisonous to humans.
"Anybody who is saying they want to go live on the surface of Mars better think about the interaction of perchlorate with the human body," he warned. "At one-half percent, that's a huge amount. Very small amounts are considered toxic. So you'd better have a plan to deal with the poisons on the surface."
Any humans exploring Mars, Smith said, will find it hard to avoid the finest of dust particles. "It'll get into everything…certainly into your habitat."
posted by chromecow at 10:23 PM on August 14 [2 favorites]
If you can get to the water, you might be able to inactivate the perchlorate.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:53 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:53 PM on August 14 [1 favorite]
particle accelerators on Phobos
I think that's how we discover Argent energy.
posted by mittens at 5:54 AM on August 15 [2 favorites]
I think that's how we discover Argent energy.
posted by mittens at 5:54 AM on August 15 [2 favorites]
Videos from the recent Mars Society conference have been posted. Day 3 has a talk about the Viking mission.
posted by Sophont at 4:21 AM on August 19 [1 favorite]
posted by Sophont at 4:21 AM on August 19 [1 favorite]
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posted by torokunai at 6:27 AM on August 14 [3 favorites]