"The whole world is watching."
August 18, 2024 10:59 AM Subscribe
The 2024 Democratic National Convention starts tomorrow in Chicago.
Speakers, schedule, and how to watch (WaPo), what you need to know (NPR), roll call (Chicago Sun-Times), who's speaking (Axios).
Protests are planned (reproductive rights, pro-Palestine), as well as free abortions and vasectomies. The Chicago Police Department says 'it's not 1968.'
Previously in the Harris campaign: "This is preaching to the choir, but the choir needs to sing."
The first Harris-Trump debate is scheduled for September 10 on ABC.
Speakers, schedule, and how to watch (WaPo), what you need to know (NPR), roll call (Chicago Sun-Times), who's speaking (Axios).
Protests are planned (reproductive rights, pro-Palestine), as well as free abortions and vasectomies. The Chicago Police Department says 'it's not 1968.'
Previously in the Harris campaign: "This is preaching to the choir, but the choir needs to sing."
The first Harris-Trump debate is scheduled for September 10 on ABC.
And now we shall watch the courtiers of the billionaire-owned media Frown In Public about "tone" and harp upon the most meaningless mostly made-up bullshit, when they let the mutants and psychopaths spit blood at the Republican convention and called it a "unity moment" or what the fuck ever.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 11:06 AM on August 18 [44 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 11:06 AM on August 18 [44 favorites]
Can we not complain about things that haven't happened yet?
posted by coffeecat at 11:17 AM on August 18 [77 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 11:17 AM on August 18 [77 favorites]
Republicans in disarray:
Trump's Feud with Georgia Governor Brian Kemp (Politico)
Trump Supporters are Furious Over His Calls to Allow Immigrants into the U.S. (DailyMail)
Pennsylvania Conservatives Panicking Over Trump's Lack of Effort in State (RawStory)
Far-right Influencers Turn Against Trump Campaign (WaPo)
Frank Luntz asks, "Does Trump Want to Lose??!!" (HuffPost)
posted by Kibbutz at 11:18 AM on August 18 [32 favorites]
Trump's Feud with Georgia Governor Brian Kemp (Politico)
Trump Supporters are Furious Over His Calls to Allow Immigrants into the U.S. (DailyMail)
Pennsylvania Conservatives Panicking Over Trump's Lack of Effort in State (RawStory)
Far-right Influencers Turn Against Trump Campaign (WaPo)
Frank Luntz asks, "Does Trump Want to Lose??!!" (HuffPost)
posted by Kibbutz at 11:18 AM on August 18 [32 favorites]
I just wanted to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by chavenet at 11:21 AM on August 18 [80 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 11:21 AM on August 18 [80 favorites]
Speaker TLDR:
Monday - The Bidens, Hilary
Tuesday - The Obamas, Doug Emhoff
Wednesday - Walz, Bill Clinton, Pelosi, Buttigieg
Thursday - Harris
posted by BigBrooklyn at 11:24 AM on August 18 [18 favorites]
Monday - The Bidens, Hilary
Tuesday - The Obamas, Doug Emhoff
Wednesday - Walz, Bill Clinton, Pelosi, Buttigieg
Thursday - Harris
posted by BigBrooklyn at 11:24 AM on August 18 [18 favorites]
>Can we not complain about things that haven't happened yet?
Not to quibble, but I would characterize the comment before yours as 'complaining about things that have been happening over and over for as long as I've been alive'.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:28 AM on August 18 [45 favorites]
Not to quibble, but I would characterize the comment before yours as 'complaining about things that have been happening over and over for as long as I've been alive'.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 11:28 AM on August 18 [45 favorites]
All eyes on Gaza and the protests of a democratic administration that is nominally supporting a "ceasefire" and "human rights" while also arming and funding a genocide, which can not and will not be uncoupled from the convention itself no matter how much it spoils everyone's Good Vibes. Many of the people in attendance will be Palestinians who have lost family, as Cook County is one of the largest Palestinian communities in the country. There will also be ~30 uncommitted delegates in attendance at the convention itself.
The intention of these protests is to cause disruption and create tension and force this issue to people who would very much prefer not to discuss it at this time, and I hope everyone protesting in Chicago manages to do this while also staying safe. "The whole world is watching" indeed.
posted by windbox at 11:32 AM on August 18 [25 favorites]
The intention of these protests is to cause disruption and create tension and force this issue to people who would very much prefer not to discuss it at this time, and I hope everyone protesting in Chicago manages to do this while also staying safe. "The whole world is watching" indeed.
posted by windbox at 11:32 AM on August 18 [25 favorites]
"She had a new candidate bounce."
"She just got a bounce from Walz, but it will die down."
"Oh, she has a pre-convention bounce and then we'll see."
HAHA. She's going to bounce the whole way, my dudes. Because all the most skeptical people, methinks, are dudes.
I would like to add I support jailing mass murderer Netanyahu and a whole lot of Israeli army criminals and stop arming those assholes and stop the horror. Kamala may do some or all of that, but she may need to be elected first.
posted by Glinn at 11:39 AM on August 18 [64 favorites]
"She just got a bounce from Walz, but it will die down."
"Oh, she has a pre-convention bounce and then we'll see."
HAHA. She's going to bounce the whole way, my dudes. Because all the most skeptical people, methinks, are dudes.
I would like to add I support jailing mass murderer Netanyahu and a whole lot of Israeli army criminals and stop arming those assholes and stop the horror. Kamala may do some or all of that, but she may need to be elected first.
posted by Glinn at 11:39 AM on August 18 [64 favorites]
It will be interesting to see how the messaging evolves throughout the week. Specific policies? Mostly vibes? "Freedom"?
I looked for the most recent national polling around specific issues and found:
Economist/YouGov Poll, Aug 11-13, 2024 (full pdf)
1,567 US Adult Citizens
“Which of these is the most important issue for you?”
I looked for the most recent national polling around specific issues and found:
Economist/YouGov Poll, Aug 11-13, 2024 (full pdf)
1,567 US Adult Citizens
“Which of these is the most important issue for you?”
| Issue | Total | | ---------------------------------- | ----- | | Inflation/prices | 24% | | Jobs and the economy | 13% | | Immigration | 12% | | Health care | 10% | | Abortion | 7% | | Civil rights | 6% | | Climate change and the environment | 6% | | Taxes and government spending | 6% | | National Security | 3% | | Guns | 3% | | Education | 3% | | Crime | 2% | | Civil liberties | 2% | | Foreign policy | 1% | | Criminal justice reform | 1% |posted by gwint at 11:44 AM on August 18 [15 favorites]
She absolutely needs to be elected before she can do anything.
I want the US to stop sending arms to Israel.
If Trump gets elected, the carnage and horror in Palestine - and in many other places - will be unbelievably, unspeakably, impossibly yet crushingly massively worse.
Thank you for this thread, box. I look forward to those of us who are excited and enthusiastic about Harris and Walz sharing our enthusiasm here, and I appreciate links to substantive news and info about the convention.
posted by kristi at 11:46 AM on August 18 [48 favorites]
I want the US to stop sending arms to Israel.
If Trump gets elected, the carnage and horror in Palestine - and in many other places - will be unbelievably, unspeakably, impossibly yet crushingly massively worse.
Thank you for this thread, box. I look forward to those of us who are excited and enthusiastic about Harris and Walz sharing our enthusiasm here, and I appreciate links to substantive news and info about the convention.
posted by kristi at 11:46 AM on August 18 [48 favorites]
I tried out Mute-a-filter, the Firefox browser extension that allows you to gray out comments by certain users, and can report that it works just fine on my Samsung phone running the mobile version of Firefox. Highly recommended. Might be helpful for others in this thread, in anticipation of the coming week.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:46 AM on August 18 [46 favorites]
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:46 AM on August 18 [46 favorites]
Minus Hillary, that's a pretty bland and unsurprising lineup; with Hillary, that's a pretty bland lineup. Still, playing it safe is...well, safe.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:53 AM on August 18 [3 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:53 AM on August 18 [3 favorites]
in addition to the convention Harris & Walz are heading up north on Tuesday for a rally in Milwaukee at the same venue where the RNC was held
if they really wanna win Wisconsin they'll stop along the way for a surprise presser & a couple bottles of Sprecher's pop at the Mars Cheese Castle, is this amateur pundit's opinion
posted by taquito sunrise at 11:57 AM on August 18 [14 favorites]
if they really wanna win Wisconsin they'll stop along the way for a surprise presser & a couple bottles of Sprecher's pop at the Mars Cheese Castle, is this amateur pundit's opinion
posted by taquito sunrise at 11:57 AM on August 18 [14 favorites]
I never much cared for Hillary until I volunteered to phone bank for her, and the more I learned about who she was and all she'd accomplished and all she planned to do if elected, the more I became a huge fan.
Unlike some folks here, I greatly admire every person listed on the roster so far. I'm looking forward to hearing what they have to say, and I'm looking forward to the other speakers as well. I learned about some of my heroes, like the Rev. William Barber, from DNC conventions past.
I hope this convention generates and amplifies massive enthusiasm across the country for Harris and Walz. Enthusiasm is one of the main things that decides elections, and we absolutely have to get Harris and Walz elected. If they don't, every single person in the USA will suffer, but none of us as much as people in other countries, whose fate lies partly in our hands.
posted by kristi at 11:57 AM on August 18 [65 favorites]
Unlike some folks here, I greatly admire every person listed on the roster so far. I'm looking forward to hearing what they have to say, and I'm looking forward to the other speakers as well. I learned about some of my heroes, like the Rev. William Barber, from DNC conventions past.
I hope this convention generates and amplifies massive enthusiasm across the country for Harris and Walz. Enthusiasm is one of the main things that decides elections, and we absolutely have to get Harris and Walz elected. If they don't, every single person in the USA will suffer, but none of us as much as people in other countries, whose fate lies partly in our hands.
posted by kristi at 11:57 AM on August 18 [65 favorites]
That said, it is interesting that she follows Biden on Monday. It's kind of interesting that anyone follows Biden on Monday. This was his event until a month ago. The DNC obviously doesn't want to end the first night on a goodbye.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:59 AM on August 18 [7 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:59 AM on August 18 [7 favorites]
Un-paywalled version of the Washington Post link: https://archive.ph/SwasL
From the "how to watch" portion:
The official live stream of the convention will be at DemConvention.com, as well as on YouTube, X, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitch and Prime Video.
posted by neuracnu at 12:00 PM on August 18 [11 favorites]
From the "how to watch" portion:
The official live stream of the convention will be at DemConvention.com, as well as on YouTube, X, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, Twitch and Prime Video.
posted by neuracnu at 12:00 PM on August 18 [11 favorites]
My Canadian husband is absolutely fascinated by Walz; he loves that he reps non-toxic masculinity and kindness.
posted by Kitteh at 12:13 PM on August 18 [58 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 12:13 PM on August 18 [58 favorites]
The idea that "Harris can not do anything until she is elected" is 100% not true and a completely bunk talking point. She can say whatever she wants to and make verbal commitments to the demands of protestors when and however she wants despite the administration - HER administration's - current policies.
The idea that she can't do this or isn't "allowed" to do this is just a norm, completely made up out of thin air, not any kind of legal limitation or White House Policy with a Fireable Offense or hard line "rule". Either you think breaking norms is worth it to end a genocide or it isn't. Norms were certainly broken when it was decided that Biden would drop out and Harris would become the nominee, and we're all better for it - the idea that they can't be broken for a genocide is not a morally credible position.
posted by windbox at 12:13 PM on August 18 [18 favorites]
The idea that she can't do this or isn't "allowed" to do this is just a norm, completely made up out of thin air, not any kind of legal limitation or White House Policy with a Fireable Offense or hard line "rule". Either you think breaking norms is worth it to end a genocide or it isn't. Norms were certainly broken when it was decided that Biden would drop out and Harris would become the nominee, and we're all better for it - the idea that they can't be broken for a genocide is not a morally credible position.
posted by windbox at 12:13 PM on August 18 [18 favorites]
Yeah, given how much the Veepstakes excited people, it seems like it would have made more sense to prioritize new (or at least, newer) voices in the party. In the name of party unity, giving the Bidens slots makes sense, but Bill Clinton?
posted by coffeecat at 12:18 PM on August 18 [14 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 12:18 PM on August 18 [14 favorites]
I agree. It's 2024 and putting Bill Clinton on there is . . . complicated. Not only his neoliberal third-way politics being very much in disrepute (for good reason), but sexual harassment (and worse) is connected to the guy. On the other hand, his absence would be noted, but I would still tuck him away as the "past" of the Democratic Party. Hilary is fine, as she represents someone a little less connected to Lolita Express trips.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:21 PM on August 18 [20 favorites]
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:21 PM on August 18 [20 favorites]
I haven't read anything about it but despite his many, many flaws, once in a while Bill Clinton had a hell of a lot of hopeful charisma. I'm going to hope Kamala chose him and they've crafted him an uplifting message, instead of worrying why they decided to do it. She may benefit with some help from the old guard despite the problematic parts of their histories, and it's nice to give them a podium for a moment at the beginning of her potential reign leadership era. (This has been my admittedly uneducated opinion.)
posted by Glinn at 12:26 PM on August 18 [7 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 12:26 PM on August 18 [7 favorites]
I highly doubt you're going to see a replay of 1968 here. Almost everybody from Democratic elites to the rank-and-file delegates have major institutional incentives to avoid that and, besides, nobody wants to kill off the good vibes. What kind of delegate would be masochistic enough to want a replay of the 1968 convention?
More importantly, the 1968 DNC protests were quashed by a "police riot," at least that is the terminology used by the bipartisan U.S. National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence. Chicago's current mayor, Brandon Johnson, is a former teacher's union activist and comes from a way more progressive political background and constituency than Richard Daley, Sr. ever did. According to Frank Kusch's book, Battleground Chicago: 1968 and the Democratic National Convention, the police were determined from the beginning to respond punitively to the protesters because Daley had prevented them responding as forcefully and brutally as they wanted to after the Chicago riots that followed the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr.
I don't think you have a repeat of those historical conditions today & I don't think the numbers of protesters are anywhere close to what you had in 1968.
posted by jonp72 at 12:30 PM on August 18 [9 favorites]
More importantly, the 1968 DNC protests were quashed by a "police riot," at least that is the terminology used by the bipartisan U.S. National Commission on the Causes and Prevention of Violence. Chicago's current mayor, Brandon Johnson, is a former teacher's union activist and comes from a way more progressive political background and constituency than Richard Daley, Sr. ever did. According to Frank Kusch's book, Battleground Chicago: 1968 and the Democratic National Convention, the police were determined from the beginning to respond punitively to the protesters because Daley had prevented them responding as forcefully and brutally as they wanted to after the Chicago riots that followed the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr.
I don't think you have a repeat of those historical conditions today & I don't think the numbers of protesters are anywhere close to what you had in 1968.
posted by jonp72 at 12:30 PM on August 18 [9 favorites]
You can't not invite Hillary, and she and Bill have been a two-for-one deal since Bill was running for governor of Arkansas. You probably also can't not invite a former president, either, though the Republicans have managed to do it.
People who didn't show up for the 2024 RNC include Mike Pence, Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Dan Quayle. Or, to put it another way, every living Republican who has ever been on a presidential ticket and is not Donald Trump.
Whatever you think of Bill Clinton (and I don't think much of him), the contrast favors the Dems.
posted by box at 12:33 PM on August 18 [46 favorites]
People who didn't show up for the 2024 RNC include Mike Pence, Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Dan Quayle. Or, to put it another way, every living Republican who has ever been on a presidential ticket and is not Donald Trump.
Whatever you think of Bill Clinton (and I don't think much of him), the contrast favors the Dems.
posted by box at 12:33 PM on August 18 [46 favorites]
Would the Clinton's absence REALLY be that noteable though? Maybe some discussion among the pundit chatter along the lines of "hm, interesting decision" but broadly I don't think anyone would even remotely give a shit? Especially if it was apparent that dems had decided to dig deeper into their bench for younger, fresher, more likeable and more inspiring talent.
You probably also can't not invite a former president, either, though the Republicans have managed to do it
On what basis? Is there some official DNC rule we're unaware of, or are we just talking about more made up norms? The same norms that were gladly and excitedly broken when Biden stepped down?
posted by windbox at 12:34 PM on August 18 [9 favorites]
You probably also can't not invite a former president, either, though the Republicans have managed to do it
On what basis? Is there some official DNC rule we're unaware of, or are we just talking about more made up norms? The same norms that were gladly and excitedly broken when Biden stepped down?
posted by windbox at 12:34 PM on August 18 [9 favorites]
younger, fresher, more likeable and more inspiring talent
Ain't getting that with Kathy Hochul on the schedule!
posted by praemunire at 12:36 PM on August 18 [13 favorites]
Ain't getting that with Kathy Hochul on the schedule!
posted by praemunire at 12:36 PM on August 18 [13 favorites]
Delighted to see that our (Aotearoa) much loved former Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is scheduled to speak at the Convention. I am sure she will be inspiring. She is a truly gifted leader and a really nice person as well.
posted by vac2003 at 12:45 PM on August 18 [78 favorites]
posted by vac2003 at 12:45 PM on August 18 [78 favorites]
vac2003, that is so cool! Thank you for highlighting that - I love Ardern.
posted by kristi at 12:48 PM on August 18 [9 favorites]
posted by kristi at 12:48 PM on August 18 [9 favorites]
The Chicago Police can be brutal without Mayor Johnson directing them to do so.
The idea that the Palestinian genocide will be worse under Trump raises a question for me: how? Israel is killing people as fast as it can.
Lots of other things would be worse under Trump, of course. There is no way in hell I would ever vote for him (which should go without saying but just to be clear). But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t pressure Harris *now,* while she has some incentive to try to earn our votes. We need to insist that politicians earn our votes through policy promises, not just being better than the republicans. That bar is lower than the floor.
posted by mai at 12:55 PM on August 18 [19 favorites]
The idea that the Palestinian genocide will be worse under Trump raises a question for me: how? Israel is killing people as fast as it can.
Lots of other things would be worse under Trump, of course. There is no way in hell I would ever vote for him (which should go without saying but just to be clear). But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t pressure Harris *now,* while she has some incentive to try to earn our votes. We need to insist that politicians earn our votes through policy promises, not just being better than the republicans. That bar is lower than the floor.
posted by mai at 12:55 PM on August 18 [19 favorites]
I think Bill is included because the DNC thinks it will spur people with rose-tinted memories of the Clinton years to get up and vote.
posted by Jon_Evil at 12:57 PM on August 18 [7 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 12:57 PM on August 18 [7 favorites]
Yeah, I'd rather not hear from Bill Clinton again, and I think his presence is not a great message to send to women victimized by men like him. But there are definitely people who are still very fond of the man and think he represented a high water mark for good governance somehow, so it makes sense to include him.
posted by pattern juggler at 1:03 PM on August 18 [5 favorites]
posted by pattern juggler at 1:03 PM on August 18 [5 favorites]
For people using MuteAFilter, if you also add Stylus you can add the following CSS to Stylus limited to metafilter.com and greyed-out comments become completely unseen:
.filtered-comment {
display: none;
}posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 1:04 PM on August 18 [16 favorites] I think Bill is included because the DNC thinks it will spur people with rose-tinted memories of the Clinton years to get up and vote.
I suspect they are also intending a contrast with the GOP - that the only living former GOP President wants nothing to do with Trump. Instead, every living Democratic former president (except the one in hospice who has already said he hopes to stay alive long enough to vote Harris) is there to support Harris.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 1:09 PM on August 18 [36 favorites]
I suspect they are also intending a contrast with the GOP - that the only living former GOP President wants nothing to do with Trump. Instead, every living Democratic former president (except the one in hospice who has already said he hopes to stay alive long enough to vote Harris) is there to support Harris.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 1:09 PM on August 18 [36 favorites]
Is there a place to watch Ardern's speech?
posted by pattern juggler at 1:14 PM on August 18 [1 favorite]
posted by pattern juggler at 1:14 PM on August 18 [1 favorite]
Bill Clinton has been accused of rape, assault, and sexual harassment. List of accusations. Inviting him is basically a fuck-you to all victims.
posted by mai at 1:17 PM on August 18 [12 favorites]
posted by mai at 1:17 PM on August 18 [12 favorites]
Supporting and cheerleading genocide is a deal breaker for some, and it should be for all.
How can one expect to influence the future President if you cede the issue by saying the other side could potentially be worse? If Harris wants the votes of people who oppose the genocide, the honus is on her to show how she'll be different from the absolutely disgusting performance of the administration she's currently the second most important leader of.
posted by chaz at 1:22 PM on August 18 [12 favorites]
How can one expect to influence the future President if you cede the issue by saying the other side could potentially be worse? If Harris wants the votes of people who oppose the genocide, the honus is on her to show how she'll be different from the absolutely disgusting performance of the administration she's currently the second most important leader of.
posted by chaz at 1:22 PM on August 18 [12 favorites]
A Most Curious Rabbit, thanks for the tip!
posted by rikschell at 1:23 PM on August 18 [6 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 1:23 PM on August 18 [6 favorites]
Here's hoping they send Bill Clinton out for a pack of smokes and replace him with AOC, last minute.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 1:27 PM on August 18 [24 favorites]
posted by mrjohnmuller at 1:27 PM on August 18 [24 favorites]
Enthusiasm is one of the main things that decides elections
HAHA. She's going to bounce the whole way, my dudes.These two quotes basically explain why I've decided to donate some amount of money any time the Harris / Walz campaign does literally anything that registers, because I think "Harris/Walz campaign raises $50m after fart joke" is the best way to get under the skin of people trying to suck the enthusiasm and energy out.
posted by pulposus at 1:30 PM on August 18 [40 favorites]
Is there a place to watch Ardern's speech?
Good question! As per the linked article, "Ardern won’t be speaking on the main stage but will speak during a “global progress action” panel discussion titled “Healing the Nation”." Article says early Wednesday morning Aotearoa time which I think is, roughly, mid-morning Tuesday in Chicago. The agenda for the Convention is linked above in one of the first comments. That has various live video links. But I don't have specifics - despite a fair amount of looking. If I manage to find it, I'll post it here.
posted by vac2003 at 1:33 PM on August 18 [4 favorites]
Good question! As per the linked article, "Ardern won’t be speaking on the main stage but will speak during a “global progress action” panel discussion titled “Healing the Nation”." Article says early Wednesday morning Aotearoa time which I think is, roughly, mid-morning Tuesday in Chicago. The agenda for the Convention is linked above in one of the first comments. That has various live video links. But I don't have specifics - despite a fair amount of looking. If I manage to find it, I'll post it here.
posted by vac2003 at 1:33 PM on August 18 [4 favorites]
Doing stuff just to piss off Trump and Van e is a pretty good strategy. Neither one seems remotely able to cope with criticism, and Yrump goes completely off message when he is angry.
Also, watching the news shows trying to explain why people were making couch jokes about Vance was delightful.
posted by pattern juggler at 1:34 PM on August 18 [7 favorites]
Also, watching the news shows trying to explain why people were making couch jokes about Vance was delightful.
posted by pattern juggler at 1:34 PM on August 18 [7 favorites]
Israel is killing people as fast as it can.
Believe me, it gives me absolutely no pleasure or satisfaction in the argument to say that this is not true. You can always kill people faster or in more horrifying ways.
It is completely appropriate for people to protest the genocide at the convention--where else?--but people saying things like "the other side could potentially be worse" (emphasis added) are demonstrating a leftist ideological masochism that divorces them completely from the horrific experience they wish to focus on. Yes, the other guy would be worse. His son-in-law wants all the residents gone so it can be redeveloped as waterfront property.
posted by praemunire at 1:34 PM on August 18 [42 favorites]
Believe me, it gives me absolutely no pleasure or satisfaction in the argument to say that this is not true. You can always kill people faster or in more horrifying ways.
It is completely appropriate for people to protest the genocide at the convention--where else?--but people saying things like "the other side could potentially be worse" (emphasis added) are demonstrating a leftist ideological masochism that divorces them completely from the horrific experience they wish to focus on. Yes, the other guy would be worse. His son-in-law wants all the residents gone so it can be redeveloped as waterfront property.
posted by praemunire at 1:34 PM on August 18 [42 favorites]
Believe me, it gives me absolutely no pleasure or satisfaction in the argument to say that this is not true. You can always kill people faster or in more horrifying ways.
Nobody wants to hear the counterargument to this. Certainly not here. But it exists. I don't advise a close reading on the details of what is happening in Gaza, but once you have done it, this sort of argument gets a lot harder to make.
posted by pattern juggler at 1:38 PM on August 18 [9 favorites]
Nobody wants to hear the counterargument to this. Certainly not here. But it exists. I don't advise a close reading on the details of what is happening in Gaza, but once you have done it, this sort of argument gets a lot harder to make.
posted by pattern juggler at 1:38 PM on August 18 [9 favorites]
People who didn't show up for the 2024 RNC include Mike Pence, Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Dan Quayle. Or, to put it another way, every living Republican who has ever been on a presidential ticket and is not Donald Trump.
You forgot Sarah Palin (which is okay, we all have dreams). And so did the Republicans, who couldn't even shoehorn her into a speakers lineup that looked like the political equivalent of a Norovirus outbreak on a cruise ship (though that might be overly offensive to Norovirus)
posted by hangashore at 1:38 PM on August 18 [25 favorites]
You forgot Sarah Palin (which is okay, we all have dreams). And so did the Republicans, who couldn't even shoehorn her into a speakers lineup that looked like the political equivalent of a Norovirus outbreak on a cruise ship (though that might be overly offensive to Norovirus)
posted by hangashore at 1:38 PM on August 18 [25 favorites]
Was out delivering things on Saturday and was delighted to see anti-Kamala flyers in many mail boxes. They called her “dangerously liberal” and that made my day!
It’s such a good compliment and from people who think it’s an insult.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:45 PM on August 18 [19 favorites]
It’s such a good compliment and from people who think it’s an insult.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:45 PM on August 18 [19 favorites]
That sort of thing might be a little more effect if they hadn't called the following people Communists: Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton (B), Gore, Kerry, Obama, Clinton (H), Biden.
yeah I stole this from twitter its mine now.
posted by Justinian at 1:48 PM on August 18 [14 favorites]
yeah I stole this from twitter its mine now.
posted by Justinian at 1:48 PM on August 18 [14 favorites]
Given that the first two items on the list that gwint posted above are economic in nature, having Bill Clinton front and center isn't a surprising choice. A lot of people still remember the 90s as golden, economically speaking.
posted by AdamCSnider at 1:49 PM on August 18 [2 favorites]
posted by AdamCSnider at 1:49 PM on August 18 [2 favorites]
It is strange that, according to the GOP, every democratic presidential candidate in the last thirty years has been the most liberal democrat of all time. What are the odds?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:50 PM on August 18 [30 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:50 PM on August 18 [30 favorites]
And now we shall watch the courtiers of the billionaire-owned media Frown In Public about "tone" and harp upon the most meaningless mostly made-up bullshit, when they let the mutants and psychopaths spit blood at the Republican convention and called it a "unity moment" or what the fuck ever.
Harrumph!
You watch your ass!
posted by JohnFromGR at 1:52 PM on August 18 [1 favorite]
Harrumph!
You watch your ass!
posted by JohnFromGR at 1:52 PM on August 18 [1 favorite]
If you're looking for some counter-programming, note that Republican nominee Donald J. Trump will be holding a "crime and safety" rally next Tuesday in Howell, Michigan.
posted by Naberius at 1:59 PM on August 18 [4 favorites]
posted by Naberius at 1:59 PM on August 18 [4 favorites]
...from the bottom of the ocean to the mountains of the moon...
posted by Rash at 2:13 PM on August 18 [2 favorites]
posted by Rash at 2:13 PM on August 18 [2 favorites]
If you're looking for some counter-programming, note that Republican nominee Donald J. Trump will be holding a "crime and safety" rally next Tuesday in Howell, Michigan.
Crime is definitely an issue where Trump is an expert.
A packed house full of Nazis during a covid spike is the sort of thing that makes it hard to avoid wishing ill on anyone.
posted by pattern juggler at 2:16 PM on August 18 [11 favorites]
Crime is definitely an issue where Trump is an expert.
A packed house full of Nazis during a covid spike is the sort of thing that makes it hard to avoid wishing ill on anyone.
posted by pattern juggler at 2:16 PM on August 18 [11 favorites]
The 47 Seconds That Saved Kamala Harris’s Political Career
posted by robbyrobs at 2:25 PM on August 18 [23 favorites]
posted by robbyrobs at 2:25 PM on August 18 [23 favorites]
Now that we've reached the convention, this Canadian is going to announce a second shameless attempt at foreign interference in the American election. Four years ago I posted on my Twitter and Facebook accounts as well as here on Mefi that if you Americans got Biden and Harris elected, I would give you my mom's brownie recipe. You came through and I kept my promise. (I'm still getting the occasional MeFi mail from people who have just tried the recipe out and are raving about the result, by the way.)
This time around, if you get Harris and Walz elected and keep TFG out of the White House, I will give you my mom's recipe for bacon, tomato, and cheese quiche.
GO FORTH AND EARN THAT QUICHE RECIPE, PEOPLE!!!
posted by orange swan at 2:36 PM on August 18 [114 favorites]
This time around, if you get Harris and Walz elected and keep TFG out of the White House, I will give you my mom's recipe for bacon, tomato, and cheese quiche.
GO FORTH AND EARN THAT QUICHE RECIPE, PEOPLE!!!
posted by orange swan at 2:36 PM on August 18 [114 favorites]
The agenda for the Convention is linked above in one of the first comments. That has various live video links. But I don't have specifics - despite a fair amount of looking. If I manage to find it, I'll post it here.
Thanks very much, I really appreciate it!
posted by pattern juggler at 2:44 PM on August 18
Thanks very much, I really appreciate it!
posted by pattern juggler at 2:44 PM on August 18
A little surprised not to see Josh Shapiro, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Gretchen Whitmer given primetime slots, or at least not announced so far. The DNC is often used as a stage to show off the next generation of political talent and all three are surely at least potential Presidential candidates, like Pete Buttigieg, who *is* already on the schedule.
posted by escabeche at 2:51 PM on August 18 [12 favorites]
posted by escabeche at 2:51 PM on August 18 [12 favorites]
The DNC is often used as a stage to show off the next generation of political talent...
I'd love to see the convention being used to build the bench and celebrate the diversity of a big tent.
Although I wouldn't expect a primetime/main stage speaking spot, it would be nice to see my Representative Yadira Caraveo, who's running in one of the most closely contested seats of the House, speak at some point.
It would be a welcome change to hear her articulate a positive vision as opposed to the relentless ads we're getting about her being tough on the border, which may be messaging needed to win our district, though I have my doubts, and is certainly not energizing for me personally.
(Don't worry! I don't have to be energized at all to vote. I'll be voting.)
posted by audi alteram partem at 3:06 PM on August 18 [13 favorites]
I'd love to see the convention being used to build the bench and celebrate the diversity of a big tent.
Although I wouldn't expect a primetime/main stage speaking spot, it would be nice to see my Representative Yadira Caraveo, who's running in one of the most closely contested seats of the House, speak at some point.
It would be a welcome change to hear her articulate a positive vision as opposed to the relentless ads we're getting about her being tough on the border, which may be messaging needed to win our district, though I have my doubts, and is certainly not energizing for me personally.
(Don't worry! I don't have to be energized at all to vote. I'll be voting.)
posted by audi alteram partem at 3:06 PM on August 18 [13 favorites]
In 2018 Kamala Harris ran for the first ever Senate seat in Wakanda.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:13 PM on August 18 [4 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 3:13 PM on August 18 [4 favorites]
Is there a place to watch Ardern's speech?
I don't know for sure of course but there's a very good chance you'll be able to watch it on CSPAN.
posted by phunniemee at 3:18 PM on August 18 [2 favorites]
I don't know for sure of course but there's a very good chance you'll be able to watch it on CSPAN.
posted by phunniemee at 3:18 PM on August 18 [2 favorites]
The 47 Seconds That Saved Kamala Harris’s Political Career
Video of the debate. The "I earned it" bit starts around 47:00.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:21 PM on August 18 [13 favorites]
Video of the debate. The "I earned it" bit starts around 47:00.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:21 PM on August 18 [13 favorites]
That sort of thing might be a little more effect if they hadn't called the following people Communists: Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton (B), Gore, Kerry, Obama, Clinton (H), Biden.
There are a lot of Republicans who are still oblivious about the Cold War being over. I remember how the Tea Party calling Obama a socialist backfired by making socialism more popular among young people, because "the youths" liked Obama & if Obama was socialist, maybe that's not so bad.
Now, Trump is outright calling all Democrats Communists. I suspect some Gen Zers are thinking, "Communists? Isn't that what Boomers call tankies?"
posted by jonp72 at 3:25 PM on August 18 [8 favorites]
There are a lot of Republicans who are still oblivious about the Cold War being over. I remember how the Tea Party calling Obama a socialist backfired by making socialism more popular among young people, because "the youths" liked Obama & if Obama was socialist, maybe that's not so bad.
Now, Trump is outright calling all Democrats Communists. I suspect some Gen Zers are thinking, "Communists? Isn't that what Boomers call tankies?"
posted by jonp72 at 3:25 PM on August 18 [8 favorites]
The 47 Seconds That Saved Kamala Harris’s Political Career
>Video of the debate. The "I earned it" bit starts around 47:00.
47 seconds 47 minutes 47th president pls
posted by phunniemee at 3:27 PM on August 18 [35 favorites]
>Video of the debate. The "I earned it" bit starts around 47:00.
47 seconds 47 minutes 47th president pls
posted by phunniemee at 3:27 PM on August 18 [35 favorites]
So, no one from a major labor union is on the speaker schedule yet?
posted by mediareport at 3:33 PM on August 18 [7 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 3:33 PM on August 18 [7 favorites]
A little surprised not to see Josh Shapiro, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Gretchen Whitmer given primetime slots, or at least not announced so far.
So, no one from a major labor union is on the speaker schedule yet?
Chicago mayor Brandon Johnson (and, more notably, Michelle Obama) were not on the earliest lists of speakers, and they are now. I would expect more speakers to be announced. There are like 16 hours of tv time to fill, and Bill Clinton's good for four at most (that's a joke. Kind of).
Not sure that Shapiro or Whitmer (who may have already provided the campaign the biggest boost they can), let alone AOC (whose whole deal is being on the leftmost end of the mainstream Democratic party), will be on the list, but they certainly could be.
I'd love to see them bring out Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar, but even as we speak Paul Begala and James Carville are hiding behind a door, waiting to jump out and tell me why that's a bad idea.
posted by box at 3:38 PM on August 18 [28 favorites]
So, no one from a major labor union is on the speaker schedule yet?
Chicago mayor Brandon Johnson (and, more notably, Michelle Obama) were not on the earliest lists of speakers, and they are now. I would expect more speakers to be announced. There are like 16 hours of tv time to fill, and Bill Clinton's good for four at most (that's a joke. Kind of).
Not sure that Shapiro or Whitmer (who may have already provided the campaign the biggest boost they can), let alone AOC (whose whole deal is being on the leftmost end of the mainstream Democratic party), will be on the list, but they certainly could be.
I'd love to see them bring out Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar, but even as we speak Paul Begala and James Carville are hiding behind a door, waiting to jump out and tell me why that's a bad idea.
posted by box at 3:38 PM on August 18 [28 favorites]
Yeah, on reflection, the list of announced speakers seems sparse. I would have to imagine more people will talk than this; how many promo videos can they run?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:41 PM on August 18
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:41 PM on August 18
Those caucus meetings during the day, I wonder if anybody is scheduled to address them? They wouldn't be on the primetime schedule, but still have something to say. I wonder what coverage they'll have.
posted by mikelieman at 4:06 PM on August 18
posted by mikelieman at 4:06 PM on August 18
Yeah, on reflection, the list of announced speakers seems sparse.
Yeah, there will be many more. We’re just seeing the big names now
posted by mr_roboto at 4:25 PM on August 18 [4 favorites]
Yeah, there will be many more. We’re just seeing the big names now
posted by mr_roboto at 4:25 PM on August 18 [4 favorites]
I wonder if the list is sparse because they wanna curate a bunch of “surprises“, either because playing everything close to the vest and not giving their opponents time to develop criticisms beforehand seems to be working for them, or because they’re riding on the vibes and whimsy and Clickbait “guess who just stepped on stage at the DNC?”, which also kind of seems to be working for them
posted by Jon_Evil at 4:30 PM on August 18 [5 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 4:30 PM on August 18 [5 favorites]
LOL at the idea that the Vice President of the United States has no ability to comment on or impact US foreign policy or, for example, the additional 3.5 billion her and Biden's administration just pledged for aid for Israel to spend on American- made weapons.
And LOL at the strawman that critiquing the Democratic candidate means you want Trump to win or are helping him do so.
posted by latkes at 4:34 PM on August 18 [15 favorites]
And LOL at the strawman that critiquing the Democratic candidate means you want Trump to win or are helping him do so.
posted by latkes at 4:34 PM on August 18 [15 favorites]
I'm just curious who from the Teamsters they might give the mic to after Sean O'Brien spoke in primetime at the RNC (I think it would be smart if the Dems let him speak at their convention, too, but political egos being what they are I figure that insult was too great). Maybe they'll punt and just have Shawn Fain from the UAW cover all the labor stuff. But Dems damn well better have a couple of folks from major unions on that stage during prime time if they're serious about winning.
posted by mediareport at 4:40 PM on August 18 [9 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 4:40 PM on August 18 [9 favorites]
That Chicago2024 site is kind of intended for the setup. demconvention.com is more useful.
posted by theora55 at 5:39 PM on August 18 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 5:39 PM on August 18 [2 favorites]
David Dayen of The American Prospect reported that Elizabeth Warren would be speaking on Thursday, although I haven't seen that anywhere else.
Does anyone know who is mostly in charge of the decisions for who gets speaking slots? Is it more driven by Harris/the Harris campaign, Jaime Harrison/DNC leadership, or someone else?
posted by Gadarene at 5:54 PM on August 18
Does anyone know who is mostly in charge of the decisions for who gets speaking slots? Is it more driven by Harris/the Harris campaign, Jaime Harrison/DNC leadership, or someone else?
posted by Gadarene at 5:54 PM on August 18
Also, in the interests of Good Vibes, I present this excerpt from a CNN article from today:
Three weeks into her presidential run was the first time the Biden campaign’s pollsters — now hers — held a deep-dive call with Kamala Harris’ inner circle to discuss what she’s been saying on the stump.
Over the line came a lot of praise, but also some suggested tweaks. First, said veteran Democratic numbers man Geoff Garin, summarizing their analysis, stop saying, “We’re not going back.” It wasn’t focused enough on the future, he argued. Second, lay off all the “weird” talk — too negative.
***
When advisers who had been on the call briefed the vice president on the suggestions, according to CNN’s conversations with close to a dozen people involved with internal campaign decisions, she told them she wasn’t going to listen to the pollsters herself and would instead trust the instincts she had buried under self-doubt for so long.
Fuck yeah! Go, Kamala. That's really heartening to read.
(And Geoff Garin and his ilk need to be kept far away from this campaign, especially if they're the ones who were responsible for not polling battleground states for two or three months -- ???? -- prior to Biden dropping out.)
posted by Gadarene at 5:59 PM on August 18 [36 favorites]
Three weeks into her presidential run was the first time the Biden campaign’s pollsters — now hers — held a deep-dive call with Kamala Harris’ inner circle to discuss what she’s been saying on the stump.
Over the line came a lot of praise, but also some suggested tweaks. First, said veteran Democratic numbers man Geoff Garin, summarizing their analysis, stop saying, “We’re not going back.” It wasn’t focused enough on the future, he argued. Second, lay off all the “weird” talk — too negative.
***
When advisers who had been on the call briefed the vice president on the suggestions, according to CNN’s conversations with close to a dozen people involved with internal campaign decisions, she told them she wasn’t going to listen to the pollsters herself and would instead trust the instincts she had buried under self-doubt for so long.
Fuck yeah! Go, Kamala. That's really heartening to read.
(And Geoff Garin and his ilk need to be kept far away from this campaign, especially if they're the ones who were responsible for not polling battleground states for two or three months -- ???? -- prior to Biden dropping out.)
posted by Gadarene at 5:59 PM on August 18 [36 favorites]
"Instead, every living Democratic former president (except the one in hospice who has already said he hopes to stay alive long enough to vote Harris) is there to support Harris."
President Jimmy Carter's grandson, Jason Carter, is slated to speak on his grandfather's behalf, NBC News reported.
Jason Carter served in the Georgia State Senate from 2010 to 2015, and was the Democratic Party nominee for governor of Georgia in the 2014 election. Carter is a past recipient of the the Stuart Eizenstat Young Lawyer Award, given by the Anti-Defamation League, for his pro bono work defending voting rights. Like his great-grandmother, Lillian Carter, Jason served in the Peace Corps.
"Carter is set to address the 2024 Democratic National Convention as a keynote speaker" per Jason's Wikipedia entry (no supporting links given).
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:01 PM on August 18 [29 favorites]
President Jimmy Carter's grandson, Jason Carter, is slated to speak on his grandfather's behalf, NBC News reported.
Jason Carter served in the Georgia State Senate from 2010 to 2015, and was the Democratic Party nominee for governor of Georgia in the 2014 election. Carter is a past recipient of the the Stuart Eizenstat Young Lawyer Award, given by the Anti-Defamation League, for his pro bono work defending voting rights. Like his great-grandmother, Lillian Carter, Jason served in the Peace Corps.
"Carter is set to address the 2024 Democratic National Convention as a keynote speaker" per Jason's Wikipedia entry (no supporting links given).
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:01 PM on August 18 [29 favorites]
I was kinda looking forward to a contested convention because I'm in my 40s and have still never seen one happen. But I'm glad that this is how things panned out instead.
posted by thecjm at 6:43 PM on August 18
posted by thecjm at 6:43 PM on August 18
Per Prem Thakker:
Uncommitted: DNC will host first ever panel on Palestinian human rights
Panelists:
Uncommitted co-lead Layla Elabed
Surgeon who served in Gaza
Party organizer w/ family killed in Gaza by Israeli forces
MN AG Keith Ellison
Fmr Rep Andy Levin
Arab American Institute pres. Jim Zogby
He's posting a portion of the public statement but I'm not free to find a non-twt link, but I expect some outlets will very soon (or already?).
posted by cendawanita at 7:24 PM on August 18 [21 favorites]
Uncommitted: DNC will host first ever panel on Palestinian human rights
Panelists:
Uncommitted co-lead Layla Elabed
Surgeon who served in Gaza
Party organizer w/ family killed in Gaza by Israeli forces
MN AG Keith Ellison
Fmr Rep Andy Levin
Arab American Institute pres. Jim Zogby
He's posting a portion of the public statement but I'm not free to find a non-twt link, but I expect some outlets will very soon (or already?).
posted by cendawanita at 7:24 PM on August 18 [21 favorites]
called the following people Communists
You forgot FDR, Truman, Kennedy, and Johnson. Not to mention MLK Jr and anyone to the left of Atilla the Hun.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:01 PM on August 18 [5 favorites]
You forgot FDR, Truman, Kennedy, and Johnson. Not to mention MLK Jr and anyone to the left of Atilla the Hun.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 9:01 PM on August 18 [5 favorites]
MJ: Chicago’s Mayor Owes His Career to Activism. How Will He Handle Demonstrators at the DNC? - Tens of thousands of protesters are expected at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. Mayor Brandon Johnson used to be one.
“I certainly understand that without protests,” he tells me during a 45-minute interview, “you and I don’t exist, quite frankly.”
(...) Johnson’s position on the conflict also goes well beyond that of freshly minted Democratic presidential nominee Kamala Harris, who has shown sympathy for Palestinian suffering but has also expressed “unwavering” commitment to Israel and its security. “What’s happening right now is not only egregious, it is genocidal,” Johnson, by contrast, says in our interview. “We have to acknowledge and name it for what it is and have the moral courage to exercise our authority.”
posted by cendawanita at 9:08 PM on August 18 [15 favorites]
“I certainly understand that without protests,” he tells me during a 45-minute interview, “you and I don’t exist, quite frankly.”
(...) Johnson’s position on the conflict also goes well beyond that of freshly minted Democratic presidential nominee Kamala Harris, who has shown sympathy for Palestinian suffering but has also expressed “unwavering” commitment to Israel and its security. “What’s happening right now is not only egregious, it is genocidal,” Johnson, by contrast, says in our interview. “We have to acknowledge and name it for what it is and have the moral courage to exercise our authority.”
posted by cendawanita at 9:08 PM on August 18 [15 favorites]
GO FORTH AND EARN THAT QUICHE RECIPE, PEOPLE!!!
orange swan, give us a Quiche to build a dream on...
posted by chromecow at 10:53 PM on August 18 [11 favorites]
orange swan, give us a Quiche to build a dream on...
posted by chromecow at 10:53 PM on August 18 [11 favorites]
Duckworth is rumored to be speaker. NBC Chicago has confirmed Pritzker will address the convention on Tuesday night, the same night that Obama will speak, and according to reports, [Bill] Clinton will address delegates in Chicago on Wednesday night... before Walz's speech.
Say the DNC gets local talent to perform a number in between their speeches, perhaps incorporating broom choreography...
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:23 PM on August 18 [1 favorite]
Say the DNC gets local talent to perform a number in between their speeches, perhaps incorporating broom choreography...
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:23 PM on August 18 [1 favorite]
The idea that the Palestinian genocide will be worse under Trump raises a question for me: how? Israel is killing people as fast as it can.
You know that ceasefire that the Biden administration is trying to work on right now? Do you think Trump would do that at all?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:33 AM on August 19 [24 favorites]
You know that ceasefire that the Biden administration is trying to work on right now? Do you think Trump would do that at all?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:33 AM on August 19 [24 favorites]
You know that ceasefire that the Biden administration is trying to work on right now
Hmmm:
Hmmm:
The “new US proposal” is not an actual ceasefire and gives in to Netanyahu’s *new* demands to continue the war and occupy Gaza.posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 4:06 AM on August 19 [22 favorites]
It is Israel rejecting what Biden called “Israel’s proposal.” And it’s a distraction from ongoing genocide.
au·da·cious
1. showing a willingness to take surprisingly bold risks.
"a series of audacious takeovers"
Similar:
bold daring fearless intrepid brave unafraid unflinching courageous valiant valorous heroic dashing plucky daredevil devil-may-care
death-or-glory reckless wild madcap adventurous
venturesome enterprising dynamic
spirited mettlesome game gutsy spunky ballsy have-a-go go-ahead venturous temerarious
2. showing an impudent lack of respect.
"an audacious remark"
Which one is it, CNN? Democrats gather to enshrine their audacious power play
Yipes
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:13 AM on August 19 [2 favorites]
1. showing a willingness to take surprisingly bold risks.
"a series of audacious takeovers"
Similar:
bold daring fearless intrepid brave unafraid unflinching courageous valiant valorous heroic dashing plucky daredevil devil-may-care
death-or-glory reckless wild madcap adventurous
venturesome enterprising dynamic
spirited mettlesome game gutsy spunky ballsy have-a-go go-ahead venturous temerarious
2. showing an impudent lack of respect.
"an audacious remark"
Which one is it, CNN? Democrats gather to enshrine their audacious power play
Yipes
posted by tiny frying pan at 4:13 AM on August 19 [2 favorites]
My office is four blocks from the United Center and corp advised us to work from home this week. I'm going in anyway, we have some stuff to wire together and ship out to a waiting client. The chat lines have been filled all week with predictions of mass hysteria and terrorism, I just don't see it happening. They told everyone to stay clear of Google next door when the protestors said they were coming. The cops outnumbered the protestors (and the Googlers worked from home that week).
On the upside, a good friend scored me a ticket for the live Colbert taping on Thursday night. No guests have been announced yet but apparently we need to be checked in by 7:00pm for a 10:30 show, and nobody can leave once the doors are closed. Hmm.
posted by JoeZydeco at 4:39 AM on August 19 [23 favorites]
On the upside, a good friend scored me a ticket for the live Colbert taping on Thursday night. No guests have been announced yet but apparently we need to be checked in by 7:00pm for a 10:30 show, and nobody can leave once the doors are closed. Hmm.
posted by JoeZydeco at 4:39 AM on August 19 [23 favorites]
The “new US proposal” is not an actual ceasefire and gives in to Netanyahu’s *new* demands to continue the war and occupy Gaza.
It is Israel rejecting what Biden called “Israel’s proposal.” And it’s a distraction from ongoing genocide.
Asal Raad isn't even the only one saying it, especially as this weekend's round broke down for fairly unsurprising reasons (Hamas said they've been fine with July terms and Bibi added more terms after the agreement - that set is what the US trashed out together with Qatar and Egypt to Israel, befitting Biden's White House of really quite literally not registering any Palestinians at all - you can see the latest statement on ceasefire over the weekend as well, which had the silver lining of, can't speak about any dead Palestinians if he doesn't see any Palestinians). mydonkeybenjamin shared Mouin Rabbani's take over in the genocide thread, and the next day I see people like Mairav Zonsvein: The Gaza ceasefire talks are akin to the (long extinct) negotiations for a two state solution: A facade of Israeli intention towards a certain goal through a protracted process that provides it with time to continue determining facts on ground while enjoying benefit of the doubt
Regional analysts can see it for the fig leaf that it is, but that's the real being the vibe killer.
ETA: said it in the other thread, but I'll restate it - Biden's historic (record-breaking? He's far outpaced any republican on this end. Certainly Trump wouldn't be wasting anyone's time and get straight to it.) support for an Israel that's been collecting international law judgements like a hobby is the millstone around Harris.
And again, for who? For this sort of state: 'Emails and legal memos originating from a hack of the Israeli justice ministry show that officials feared that the country’s advocacy efforts in the US could trigger the US law governing foreign agents. The documents show that officials proposed creating a new American nonprofit in order to continue Israel’s activities in the US while avoiding scrutiny under the law.'
Anyway, I saw this being shared: Bringing peace to Palestine is both a personal and political commitment for June Rose -
R.I.’s only uncommitted delegate for the Democratic National Convention vows to ‘make a difference’ protesting President Biden’s policies in the Israel-Hamas war.
posted by cendawanita at 4:43 AM on August 19 [17 favorites]
It is Israel rejecting what Biden called “Israel’s proposal.” And it’s a distraction from ongoing genocide.
Asal Raad isn't even the only one saying it, especially as this weekend's round broke down for fairly unsurprising reasons (Hamas said they've been fine with July terms and Bibi added more terms after the agreement - that set is what the US trashed out together with Qatar and Egypt to Israel, befitting Biden's White House of really quite literally not registering any Palestinians at all - you can see the latest statement on ceasefire over the weekend as well, which had the silver lining of, can't speak about any dead Palestinians if he doesn't see any Palestinians). mydonkeybenjamin shared Mouin Rabbani's take over in the genocide thread, and the next day I see people like Mairav Zonsvein: The Gaza ceasefire talks are akin to the (long extinct) negotiations for a two state solution: A facade of Israeli intention towards a certain goal through a protracted process that provides it with time to continue determining facts on ground while enjoying benefit of the doubt
Regional analysts can see it for the fig leaf that it is, but that's the real being the vibe killer.
ETA: said it in the other thread, but I'll restate it - Biden's historic (record-breaking? He's far outpaced any republican on this end. Certainly Trump wouldn't be wasting anyone's time and get straight to it.) support for an Israel that's been collecting international law judgements like a hobby is the millstone around Harris.
And again, for who? For this sort of state: 'Emails and legal memos originating from a hack of the Israeli justice ministry show that officials feared that the country’s advocacy efforts in the US could trigger the US law governing foreign agents. The documents show that officials proposed creating a new American nonprofit in order to continue Israel’s activities in the US while avoiding scrutiny under the law.'
Anyway, I saw this being shared: Bringing peace to Palestine is both a personal and political commitment for June Rose -
R.I.’s only uncommitted delegate for the Democratic National Convention vows to ‘make a difference’ protesting President Biden’s policies in the Israel-Hamas war.
posted by cendawanita at 4:43 AM on August 19 [17 favorites]
You know that ceasefire that the Biden administration is trying to work on right now
Is this the one where Hamas isn't attending?
There have been two or three times now where a ceasefire is breathlessly announced and... it turns out that maybe you actually need the consent of both parties for that to work.
posted by Slackermagee at 4:46 AM on August 19 [4 favorites]
Is this the one where Hamas isn't attending?
There have been two or three times now where a ceasefire is breathlessly announced and... it turns out that maybe you actually need the consent of both parties for that to work.
posted by Slackermagee at 4:46 AM on August 19 [4 favorites]
Adding Israeli journalist Noga Tornopolsky's thread (threadreader)here as well - for purposes of those who would like to believe Biden isn't being punked*, with an insider scoop (English summary of Hebrew reporting) - basically ceasefire is as good as dead.
*Or he really doesn't give a toss about Palestinians, not even the hyphenated ones.
Abiding by America domestic laws eg the Leahy Law is one of the least yet major things Harris could commit too... In five months.
posted by cendawanita at 5:24 AM on August 19 [10 favorites]
*Or he really doesn't give a toss about Palestinians, not even the hyphenated ones.
Abiding by America domestic laws eg the Leahy Law is one of the least yet major things Harris could commit too... In five months.
posted by cendawanita at 5:24 AM on August 19 [10 favorites]
DNC releases 2024 party platform draft, outlining historic record and bold agenda for President Biden and Vice President Harris to finish the job (DNC, July 13)
Days before their convention, Democrats haven't updated their party platform to replace Biden with Harris (AP, August 15)
Democratic National Committee releases party platform ahead of election (NBC News, August 19)
Days before their convention, Democrats haven't updated their party platform to replace Biden with Harris (AP, August 15)
Democratic National Committee releases party platform ahead of election (NBC News, August 19)
Democrats released their party platform document on Sunday, laying out more than 90 pages of policy priorities just one day before its convention kicks off.posted by box at 6:07 AM on August 19 [4 favorites]
But the party platform was written and voted on by the Democratic National Convention’s Platform Committee before President Joe Biden dropped out of the race, and the document repeatedly highlights the president's achievements and positions — even when they differ slightly from Vice President Kamala Harris' comments.
The platform refers to Biden’s “second term” more than a dozen times, underscoring the unprecedented timing of the top of the ticket shake-up.
conspiracy theory: the June debate performance was all an act to transition to Harris as cleanly as possible.
posted by torokunai at 6:42 AM on August 19 [3 favorites]
posted by torokunai at 6:42 AM on August 19 [3 favorites]
Direct link to the Democratic Party Platform 2024 pdf (92 pages)
And for contrast: Republican Party Platform 2024 pdf (28 pages)
posted by gwint at 7:57 AM on August 19 [5 favorites]
And for contrast: Republican Party Platform 2024 pdf (28 pages)
posted by gwint at 7:57 AM on August 19 [5 favorites]
The Republicans are in a situation where they really can't have a coherent ideology. Not only does their brand of Conservativism not really work as an intellectual framework, but they can't put themselves in a position where Trump would repudiate something they just said they believed in. Keep it as sparse as possible. Being a Republican is about bellyfeel.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:10 AM on August 19 [10 favorites]
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:10 AM on August 19 [10 favorites]
And when they try to articulate their ideology, people hate it: Project 2025 and The Streisand Effect (ungated)
posted by gwint at 8:41 AM on August 19 [8 favorites]
posted by gwint at 8:41 AM on August 19 [8 favorites]
A little surprised not to see Josh Shapiro, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Gretchen Whitmer given primetime slots
OK, Ocasio-Cortez now confirmed to be speaking tonight, so maybe I just spoke too soon before the lineup was finalized.
posted by escabeche at 8:54 AM on August 19 [23 favorites]
OK, Ocasio-Cortez now confirmed to be speaking tonight, so maybe I just spoke too soon before the lineup was finalized.
posted by escabeche at 8:54 AM on August 19 [23 favorites]
"At least seven labor leaders, including Service Employees International Union President April Verrett, United Auto Workers President Shawn Fain, American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees President Lee Saunders, and Communications Workers of America President Claude Cummings will deliver remarks, according to the Harris campaign.posted by box at 10:17 AM on August 19 [11 favorites]
Liz Shuler, President of the AFL-CIO, the nation’s largest federation of labor unions, representing affiliates with some 17 million members, will also speak Monday evening." (WaPo)
Interesting choice for the DNC to platform a rapist while running against another rapist.
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:20 AM on August 19 [6 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:20 AM on August 19 [6 favorites]
I was never able to work up any enthusiasm about Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign in 2016 (although of course I voted for her in the general election; I'm not a monster), and her insistence on sticking with Bill despite everything he'd done was the biggest reason why. It kind of sickens me to see the party standing by him even now. "He's a bastard, but he's our bastard" is one thing, but he's a serial predator, and I don't think he can be redeemed.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:42 AM on August 19 [7 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:42 AM on August 19 [7 favorites]
highly doubt you're going to see a replay of 1968 here.
I doubt this as well. Not that the youth hasn’t mobilized over Gaza, but the existing structures, networks, and organizations don’t exist to make 2024 what 1968 was.
posted by corb at 11:07 AM on August 19 [7 favorites]
I doubt this as well. Not that the youth hasn’t mobilized over Gaza, but the existing structures, networks, and organizations don’t exist to make 2024 what 1968 was.
posted by corb at 11:07 AM on August 19 [7 favorites]
Plus our actions in SE Asia in ‘68 were objectively 100, 1000x worse than Israel’s ongoing genocidal attacks on their Gaza neighbors, not even including the 10,000+ US KIA that year as the Tet Offensive aftermath evolved.
posted by torokunai at 11:14 AM on August 19 [1 favorite]
posted by torokunai at 11:14 AM on August 19 [1 favorite]
Plus our actions in SE Asia in ‘68 were objectively 100, 1000x worse than Israel’s ongoing genocidal attacks on their Gaza neighbors
Um.
I will register my disagreement on this point.
posted by Gadarene at 11:17 AM on August 19 [10 favorites]
Um.
I will register my disagreement on this point.
posted by Gadarene at 11:17 AM on August 19 [10 favorites]
I learned two new things from general news reporting today. One is that most of the speakers, especially the big names, were already lined up long ago by the Biden campaign. It would have been a much bigger political move to exclude someone who already had an invitation rather than just morphing the event into Kamala's. I don't blame her campaign for focusing on other things these past few weeks.
Also, the last time this convention was held in Chicago wasn't 1968, which is the one everyone talks about. It was 1996 to nominate Bill Clinton to his second term. All seems relevant context to the decision-making of Biden's team.
I'm a lot more interested in what the newer folks have to say - across the board. But big tents win elections, and I'm sure there are Democrats who love and want to hear from every one of these speakers.
posted by meinvt at 11:23 AM on August 19 [7 favorites]
Also, the last time this convention was held in Chicago wasn't 1968, which is the one everyone talks about. It was 1996 to nominate Bill Clinton to his second term. All seems relevant context to the decision-making of Biden's team.
I'm a lot more interested in what the newer folks have to say - across the board. But big tents win elections, and I'm sure there are Democrats who love and want to hear from every one of these speakers.
posted by meinvt at 11:23 AM on August 19 [7 favorites]
Jason Isbell to perform at opening night of DNC (Variety, reporting that he was doing a sound check of 'Something More Than Free' on Sunday night)
posted by box at 11:24 AM on August 19 [6 favorites]
posted by box at 11:24 AM on August 19 [6 favorites]
Olivia Julianna is another progressive newcomer to speak at the DNC. She first came to my recognition when Matt Gaetz tried to body shame her and she turned it into a 2 million dollar funding opp for abortion rights-previously on Metafilter.
posted by beaning at 11:29 AM on August 19 [12 favorites]
posted by beaning at 11:29 AM on August 19 [12 favorites]
Plus our actions in SE Asia in ‘68 were objectively 100, 1000x worse than Israel’s ongoing genocidal attacks on their Gaza neighbors
appalling as the vietnam war was, i have to ask which numerical criterion you're using to arrive at that estimate. for instance, nobody puts the number of deaths as a result of the vietnam war and american bombing of surrounding countries anywhere near 40 million (i.e. 1000 x the conservative estimate of the number of palestinian people killed in gaza by israel since october 2023) and estimates of 100x (for deaths inflicted by US forces) also seem off the mark, although the total deaths in the entire conflict are around the 100x mark. none of this is controlling for the difference in population, duration of the violence, etc. we are also not considering destruction of civilian infrastructure, etc. and we are not considering that the number killed in gaza through hunger and the destruction of the healthcare system are not included in the 40,000 killed figure. so under any interpretation i can think of, the idea that the atrocities committed by the US in SE Asia in the entire war (not just a single year, which is what the quoted comment literally says) looks extremely hard to defend, unless some very nonstandard notion of "worse" is used.
posted by busted_crayons at 11:30 AM on August 19 [9 favorites]
appalling as the vietnam war was, i have to ask which numerical criterion you're using to arrive at that estimate. for instance, nobody puts the number of deaths as a result of the vietnam war and american bombing of surrounding countries anywhere near 40 million (i.e. 1000 x the conservative estimate of the number of palestinian people killed in gaza by israel since october 2023) and estimates of 100x (for deaths inflicted by US forces) also seem off the mark, although the total deaths in the entire conflict are around the 100x mark. none of this is controlling for the difference in population, duration of the violence, etc. we are also not considering destruction of civilian infrastructure, etc. and we are not considering that the number killed in gaza through hunger and the destruction of the healthcare system are not included in the 40,000 killed figure. so under any interpretation i can think of, the idea that the atrocities committed by the US in SE Asia in the entire war (not just a single year, which is what the quoted comment literally says) looks extremely hard to defend, unless some very nonstandard notion of "worse" is used.
posted by busted_crayons at 11:30 AM on August 19 [9 favorites]
It's not as though Bill Clinton is a sexual predator who was also an all around great president; I mostly remember that he grimly chose to bomb Iraq in an extremely obvious attempt to change the subject when he was being impeached, and that his changes to the way student grants and loans happen have a lot to do with why we're in a student debt crisis now. He and Hillary can both walk into the fucking sea as far as I'm concerned.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:32 AM on August 19 [17 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:32 AM on August 19 [17 favorites]
Demonstrators have been assembling in Union Park but it looks like CPD is keeping a close eye on them. They have a helicopter constantly circling the park*, not close enough to be seen but certainly close enough to be heard.
* live link to ADS-B, probably won't be around in an hour or two. Airspace is already being closed for Biden's arrival
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:54 AM on August 19 [1 favorite]
* live link to ADS-B, probably won't be around in an hour or two. Airspace is already being closed for Biden's arrival
posted by JoeZydeco at 11:54 AM on August 19 [1 favorite]
I personally think that having a Clinton-free convention would have been the best way to continue with the "Not going back" forward momentum of the campaign, but in addition to the info that meinvt just posted, this new reporting seems to show that Harris is personally close to Hillary:
Hillary Clinton was on Martha’s Vineyard on Sunday, July 21, the day President Biden dropped out of the presidential race, when her phone rang. Her husband, former President Bill Clinton, had already received a call from the same number, so she knew who wanted to talk to her.posted by gwint at 11:55 AM on August 19 [25 favorites]
Vice President Kamala Harris was calling to tell her she was running for president and hoping to build support as quickly as possible. Mrs. Clinton didn’t hesitate: She told the vice president she was all in. The Clintons rushed out an endorsement well ahead of many other party leaders, including the Obamas.
As Democrats revolted against Mr. Biden’s re-election bid this summer, Mrs. Clinton wanted no role in pushing him out, according to people briefed on her thinking. But behind the scenes, she was also adamant that if the president chose to step aside, Ms. Harris should become the party’s nominee with no drawn out primary.
The two women, once on opposite sides during the contentious 2008 Democratic primary, have quietly bonded over the past several years, sharing dinners at Mrs. Clinton’s Washington home, discussing high-impact decisions like whom Ms. Harris should pick for her running mate, and connecting over the still-stubborn ways that women in high office can be underestimated.
On Monday night, Mrs. Clinton, who came achingly close to becoming the nation’s first female president, will pass the torch to a woman nearly two decades younger, in a moment that friends say comes with a mixture of bittersweetness and pride for Mrs. Clinton.
The Clintons did a ton behind the scenes to ensure that the switch to Harris went smoothly.
They were calling every big donor in their rolodex to keep them donating to the Biden/Harris campaign, and immediately gave Harris their full-throated endorsement after Biden stepped aside.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 12:02 PM on August 19 [32 favorites]
They were calling every big donor in their rolodex to keep them donating to the Biden/Harris campaign, and immediately gave Harris their full-throated endorsement after Biden stepped aside.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 12:02 PM on August 19 [32 favorites]
A bittersweet bummer for the queen that never was, I guess. Every calculation, from working with the guy who outdid you in the primaries to sticking with the guy who humiliated you in public with a thousand sleazy affairs, all led to absolutely nothing, other than a stacked Supreme Court and an end to Roe v Wade. Thanks a lot.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:03 PM on August 19 [4 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:03 PM on August 19 [4 favorites]
Olivia Julianna is another progressive newcomer to speak at the DNC. She first came to my recognition when Matt Gaetz tried to body shame her and she turned it into a 2 million dollar funding opp for abortion rights-previously on Metafilter.
Also notable for supporting corrupt, anti-choice Henry Cuellar over Jessica Cisneros in the Democratic primary in Texas in the wake of Roe's overturning, as well as being a vocal Biden ride-or-die last month and strongly advocating for Shapiro for vice-president.
For a "progressive" Gen Z-er, she is the status quo establishment's dream and presumably gets compensated as much for spreading those views on social media.
I'm not much of a fan.
posted by Gadarene at 12:03 PM on August 19 [7 favorites]
Also notable for supporting corrupt, anti-choice Henry Cuellar over Jessica Cisneros in the Democratic primary in Texas in the wake of Roe's overturning, as well as being a vocal Biden ride-or-die last month and strongly advocating for Shapiro for vice-president.
For a "progressive" Gen Z-er, she is the status quo establishment's dream and presumably gets compensated as much for spreading those views on social media.
I'm not much of a fan.
posted by Gadarene at 12:03 PM on August 19 [7 favorites]
> OK, Ocasio-Cortez now confirmed to be speaking tonight, so maybe I just spoke too soon before the lineup was finalized.
Democrats embrace AOC as 'Squad' member scheduled to speak at DNC - "In March, she appeared not to go as far as some of her 'Squad' colleagues in protesting Israel during President Joe Biden's State of the Union address. Though she wore a pin with the colors of the Palestinian flag, Rep. Ocasio-Cortez chose not to wear a Palestinian keffiyeh scarf like Reps. Summer Lee, D-Pa., Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., and Cori Bush, D-Mo. In July, AOC lost the endorsement of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) over her stance on the Israel-Hamas conflict."
Here's How the Uncommitted Movement Will Push at the DNC - "Over the past month, delegates with the Uncommitted movement have been pushing for a speaking slot for Tanya Haj-Hassan, a pediatric intensive care doctor who saw the carnage inflicted by the Israeli assault on Gaza while volunteering at the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital."
For First Time in Its History, DNC Will Feature Panel on Palestinian Rights - "'With this panel and throughout our engagement at the DNC, we will use our platform to communicate the cries of the majority of Democratic voters who want an end to the unconditional flow of U.S. weapons that [Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu is using to kill Palestinian families,' said Layla Elabed—the sister of U.S. Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.)—and Abbas Alawieh."
> There have been two or three times now where a ceasefire is breathlessly announced and... it turns out that maybe you actually need the consent of both parties for that to work.
fwiw...
Blinken says Israel OKs a plan to break the cease-fire impasse and urges Hamas to do the same - "Blinken did not say whether the proposal addressed Israel's demand for control over two strategic corridors inside Gaza — which Hamas has said is a nonstarter — or other issues that have long bedeviled the negotiations."
Factbox-Gaza ceasefire talks: The main sticking points - "Hamas wants an agreement that will guarantee an end to the war in Gaza. Netanyahu has pledged 'total victory' and wants the right to resume fighting in the Palestinian enclave until Hamas no longer poses any threat to Israelis."
posted by kliuless at 12:12 PM on August 19 [13 favorites]
Democrats embrace AOC as 'Squad' member scheduled to speak at DNC - "In March, she appeared not to go as far as some of her 'Squad' colleagues in protesting Israel during President Joe Biden's State of the Union address. Though she wore a pin with the colors of the Palestinian flag, Rep. Ocasio-Cortez chose not to wear a Palestinian keffiyeh scarf like Reps. Summer Lee, D-Pa., Rashida Tlaib, D-Mich., and Cori Bush, D-Mo. In July, AOC lost the endorsement of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) over her stance on the Israel-Hamas conflict."
Here's How the Uncommitted Movement Will Push at the DNC - "Over the past month, delegates with the Uncommitted movement have been pushing for a speaking slot for Tanya Haj-Hassan, a pediatric intensive care doctor who saw the carnage inflicted by the Israeli assault on Gaza while volunteering at the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital."
For First Time in Its History, DNC Will Feature Panel on Palestinian Rights - "'With this panel and throughout our engagement at the DNC, we will use our platform to communicate the cries of the majority of Democratic voters who want an end to the unconditional flow of U.S. weapons that [Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu is using to kill Palestinian families,' said Layla Elabed—the sister of U.S. Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.)—and Abbas Alawieh."
> There have been two or three times now where a ceasefire is breathlessly announced and... it turns out that maybe you actually need the consent of both parties for that to work.
fwiw...
Blinken says Israel OKs a plan to break the cease-fire impasse and urges Hamas to do the same - "Blinken did not say whether the proposal addressed Israel's demand for control over two strategic corridors inside Gaza — which Hamas has said is a nonstarter — or other issues that have long bedeviled the negotiations."
Factbox-Gaza ceasefire talks: The main sticking points - "Hamas wants an agreement that will guarantee an end to the war in Gaza. Netanyahu has pledged 'total victory' and wants the right to resume fighting in the Palestinian enclave until Hamas no longer poses any threat to Israelis."
posted by kliuless at 12:12 PM on August 19 [13 favorites]
Union update: no one from the Teamsters is speaking, which seems to me to be stupid and gives Trump a sharp talking point. United Auto Workers' Shawn Fain is among those scheduled; according to CBS this is the list:
United Automobile Workers President Shawn Fain
Service Employees International Union President April Verrett
American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees President Lee Saunders
Laborers' International Union of North America President President Brent Booker
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers President Kenneth W. Cooper
Communications Workers of America President Claude Cummings
American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations President Liz Shuler
One notable labor union leader who will not be speaking in Chicago is Teamsters President Sean O'Brien, who requested a speaking slot at both the Republican and Democratic conventions. While he did speak at the RNC in Milwaukee earlier this year, convention officials say he will not be speaking in Chicago. The Teamsters endorsed President Biden's campaign in 2020, but have remained neutral so far this cycle. A source familiar with the convention's planning said the Teamsters will be represented on stage during the DNC, but that O'Brien will not be speaking.
posted by mediareport at 12:29 PM on August 19 [7 favorites]
United Automobile Workers President Shawn Fain
Service Employees International Union President April Verrett
American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees President Lee Saunders
Laborers' International Union of North America President President Brent Booker
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers President Kenneth W. Cooper
Communications Workers of America President Claude Cummings
American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations President Liz Shuler
One notable labor union leader who will not be speaking in Chicago is Teamsters President Sean O'Brien, who requested a speaking slot at both the Republican and Democratic conventions. While he did speak at the RNC in Milwaukee earlier this year, convention officials say he will not be speaking in Chicago. The Teamsters endorsed President Biden's campaign in 2020, but have remained neutral so far this cycle. A source familiar with the convention's planning said the Teamsters will be represented on stage during the DNC, but that O'Brien will not be speaking.
posted by mediareport at 12:29 PM on August 19 [7 favorites]
Communications Workers of America President Claude Cummings
Barring a last–minute resolution, it looks like Cummings will be addressing the convention during an active strike, which is pretty cool (at least to me).
posted by multics at 12:42 PM on August 19 [4 favorites]
Barring a last–minute resolution, it looks like Cummings will be addressing the convention during an active strike, which is pretty cool (at least to me).
posted by multics at 12:42 PM on August 19 [4 favorites]
Bernie now on deck as well - Tuesday 8:30 pm CT.
posted by BigBrooklyn at 12:42 PM on August 19 [5 favorites]
posted by BigBrooklyn at 12:42 PM on August 19 [5 favorites]
O'Brien caught a ton of well-deserved crap for agreeing to speak at the RNC and for the Democrats to put him on stage now would both validate that decision and help shore him up against the leadership challenge he's already facing over it. Two very good reasons not to reward bad behavior, IMO.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:46 PM on August 19 [20 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:46 PM on August 19 [20 favorites]
"Convention organizers, we’re told, will be inviting rank-and-file Teamster retirees to speak from the stage in O’Brien’s place in an attempt to reverse the impression that the Teamster boss was representing the view of his union’s members when he chose to address Donald Trump’s crowd."
-- The Bulwark
Seems like a reasonable plan to me and maybe a way to both snub O'Brien while not going full on battle mode by openly taking sides in the leadership challenge.
posted by overglow at 1:02 PM on August 19 [30 favorites]
-- The Bulwark
Seems like a reasonable plan to me and maybe a way to both snub O'Brien while not going full on battle mode by openly taking sides in the leadership challenge.
posted by overglow at 1:02 PM on August 19 [30 favorites]
Convention organizers, we’re told, will be inviting rank-and-file Teamster retirees to speak from the stage in O’Brien’s place
Ah, that's exactly the kind of move I was looking for. *Someone* from the Teamsters needed to be talking on that stage, and yes, it would have been stupid not to have that. Thanks, overglow.
posted by mediareport at 1:16 PM on August 19 [13 favorites]
Ah, that's exactly the kind of move I was looking for. *Someone* from the Teamsters needed to be talking on that stage, and yes, it would have been stupid not to have that. Thanks, overglow.
posted by mediareport at 1:16 PM on August 19 [13 favorites]
Two very good reasons not to reward bad behavior, IMO.
That's why I wrote "no one from the Teamsters is speaking, which seems to me to be stupid." I'm happy to see they've remedied that.
posted by mediareport at 1:17 PM on August 19 [3 favorites]
That's why I wrote "no one from the Teamsters is speaking, which seems to me to be stupid." I'm happy to see they've remedied that.
posted by mediareport at 1:17 PM on August 19 [3 favorites]
Union members voting for Trump is the proverbial "chickens voting for Colonel Sanders." But you can't let O'Brien speak at the DNC after that RNC stunt. I'm glad they're letting rank-and-file speak.
posted by azpenguin at 2:02 PM on August 19 [7 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 2:02 PM on August 19 [7 favorites]
"Each night of the convention will feature a celebrity host, including Tony Goldwyn, Kerry Washington [she hosted one night of the 2020 DNC], Mindy Kaling, and Ana Navarro." -- Also from The Bulwark
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:11 PM on August 19 [1 favorite]
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:11 PM on August 19 [1 favorite]
NBC says it's:
Monday: Goldwyn
Tuesday: Navarro
Wednesday: Kaling
Thursday: Washington
posted by box at 2:22 PM on August 19 [2 favorites]
Monday: Goldwyn
Tuesday: Navarro
Wednesday: Kaling
Thursday: Washington
posted by box at 2:22 PM on August 19 [2 favorites]
Having one of the hosts be a guy most known for playing a President who won the presidency by cheating an was illegitimate is a choice. I think he murdered a person too?
posted by Justinian at 2:23 PM on August 19 [2 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:23 PM on August 19 [2 favorites]
Now that I think about it I think the person he murdered was a SC justice so maybe that's perfect.
posted by Justinian at 2:24 PM on August 19 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:24 PM on August 19 [6 favorites]
He was a Republican when he did that, though.
posted by Selena777 at 2:25 PM on August 19 [3 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 2:25 PM on August 19 [3 favorites]
Happening now at #DNC2024
Packed crowd at the first ever panel on Palestinian human rights that is a part of official DNC programming.
posted by box at 2:28 PM on August 19 [20 favorites]
Packed crowd at the first ever panel on Palestinian human rights that is a part of official DNC programming.
posted by box at 2:28 PM on August 19 [20 favorites]
So good to see the protestors out there, despite all the efforts by the democrats to silence them. Holding my breath before they discredit it all as an Iranian backed antisemitic psyop.
posted by iamck at 2:31 PM on August 19 [7 favorites]
posted by iamck at 2:31 PM on August 19 [7 favorites]
The free abortions link points to the same place as one of the protest links-- intentional, or was there something else meant to be there?
posted by Pitachu at 2:37 PM on August 19
posted by Pitachu at 2:37 PM on August 19
Accident. If I remember correctly, it was supposed to be this story.
posted by box at 2:41 PM on August 19
posted by box at 2:41 PM on August 19
Ana Navarro is neither particularly a celebrity nor--more importantly--even a Democrat, for goodness sake, so I'm not quite sure why we need to be platforming a Republican like that.
But whatever.
posted by Gadarene at 2:54 PM on August 19 [8 favorites]
But whatever.
posted by Gadarene at 2:54 PM on August 19 [8 favorites]
Yeah, I dislike that too! But having a "celebrity host" who is an outspoken Republican seems particularly gratuitous, never-Trump or not.
Surely there were so many other people they could have chosen from.
posted by Gadarene at 3:12 PM on August 19 [5 favorites]
Surely there were so many other people they could have chosen from.
posted by Gadarene at 3:12 PM on August 19 [5 favorites]
GO FORTH AND EARN THAT QUICHE RECIPE, PEOPLE!!!
posted by orange swan at 2:36 PM on August 18
I love you orange swan.
posted by bluesky43 at 4:01 PM on August 19 [9 favorites]
posted by orange swan at 2:36 PM on August 18
I love you orange swan.
posted by bluesky43 at 4:01 PM on August 19 [9 favorites]
Maggie Flanigan is up wearing an absolutely amazing dress.
posted by bluesky43 at 4:03 PM on August 19 [4 favorites]
posted by bluesky43 at 4:03 PM on August 19 [4 favorites]
Emissary of Night, on Bluesky:
If any of the people on here who think Uncommitted wants to "derail Democrats chances in November" wanted to learn a thing or two, they could listen to the multiple women on this panel crying and explaining their familial suffering who still, at the end, express support for the party and Harris.
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:26 PM on August 19 [22 favorites]
If any of the people on here who think Uncommitted wants to "derail Democrats chances in November" wanted to learn a thing or two, they could listen to the multiple women on this panel crying and explaining their familial suffering who still, at the end, express support for the party and Harris.
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:26 PM on August 19 [22 favorites]
*chef's kiss*
DNC projects Harris campaign messaging on Chicago's Trump Tower
posted by cooker girl at 4:34 PM on August 19 [25 favorites]
DNC projects Harris campaign messaging on Chicago's Trump Tower
posted by cooker girl at 4:34 PM on August 19 [25 favorites]
NAACP President Derrick Johnson: I'm here to do my Black job
posted by the primroses were over at 4:50 PM on August 19 [30 favorites]
posted by the primroses were over at 4:50 PM on August 19 [30 favorites]
Guardian liveblog, which also has a nice picture of Peggy Flanagan.
posted by needled at 4:57 PM on August 19 [3 favorites]
posted by needled at 4:57 PM on August 19 [3 favorites]
"All I have to say is Shirley Chisholm flew so Kamala could soar.” Mickey Guyton, one of tonight's musical performers. Also, Jason Isbell!
posted by the primroses were over at 5:06 PM on August 19 [9 favorites]
posted by the primroses were over at 5:06 PM on August 19 [9 favorites]
Can we not scold about things that haven't happened yet?
(not in response to any recent comments)
posted by bluesky43 at 5:19 PM on August 19 [6 favorites]
(not in response to any recent comments)
posted by bluesky43 at 5:19 PM on August 19 [6 favorites]
-DNC's pro-Palestinian protests condemning Biden draw smaller crowds than expected
-Harris super PAC founder says public polls are too optimistic
posted by kliuless at 5:34 PM on August 19 [3 favorites]
-Harris super PAC founder says public polls are too optimistic
posted by kliuless at 5:34 PM on August 19 [3 favorites]
Yay Michigan State Sen. Mallory McMorrow! Future governor/senator right there.
posted by ishmael at 5:41 PM on August 19 [3 favorites]
posted by ishmael at 5:41 PM on August 19 [3 favorites]
Yay Michigan State Sen. Mallory McMorrow! Future governor/senator right there.
Yeah, she's got "it."
posted by azpenguin at 5:54 PM on August 19 [2 favorites]
Yeah, she's got "it."
posted by azpenguin at 5:54 PM on August 19 [2 favorites]
Tan suit FTW
posted by The Bellman at 6:12 PM on August 19 [11 favorites]
posted by The Bellman at 6:12 PM on August 19 [11 favorites]
Kamala Harris just rocked up on stage!
posted by cooker girl at 6:15 PM on August 19 [4 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 6:15 PM on August 19 [4 favorites]
>they could listen to the multiple women on this panel crying and explaining their familial suffering
yeah I certainly respect these voices . . . as if they were Quaker or other anti-violence advocates demonstrating against the mass slaughter of Japanese people LeMay's B-29s were perpetrating over Japan in the spring & summer of '45 – but even more so because it's also so personal for them.
They are right, but usually 'right' is a hard sell to the median low-information swing voter who is going to decide who runs this place again, and that also doesn't factor in the contingent of Dems that are totally in the tank for the Netanyahu government's prosecution of this ongoing genocide.
posted by torokunai at 6:20 PM on August 19 [2 favorites]
yeah I certainly respect these voices . . . as if they were Quaker or other anti-violence advocates demonstrating against the mass slaughter of Japanese people LeMay's B-29s were perpetrating over Japan in the spring & summer of '45 – but even more so because it's also so personal for them.
They are right, but usually 'right' is a hard sell to the median low-information swing voter who is going to decide who runs this place again, and that also doesn't factor in the contingent of Dems that are totally in the tank for the Netanyahu government's prosecution of this ongoing genocide.
posted by torokunai at 6:20 PM on August 19 [2 favorites]
Please welcome Shawn Fein, who asks ‘which side are you on?’
posted by box at 6:29 PM on August 19 [12 favorites]
posted by box at 6:29 PM on August 19 [12 favorites]
Nice message from a former MAGA (until Covid):
posted by kirkaracha at 6:34 PM on August 19 [27 favorites]
This is my message to Republicans and independents...It's never too late to change your mind. You don't need to agree with everything you hear tonight to do what is right. We need to be able our trust our leaders, that's why I'm all-in for Kamala Harris.Featuring former MAGA supporters gives a permission structure to MAGAs that might be doubting Trump.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:34 PM on August 19 [27 favorites]
AOC just stepped on stage!
(edit: and she is *killing* it)
posted by mrjohnmuller at 6:37 PM on August 19 [20 favorites]
(edit: and she is *killing* it)
posted by mrjohnmuller at 6:37 PM on August 19 [20 favorites]
If anyone wants Shawn Fain's shirt, UAW is selling it: Trump Is A Scab, Vote Harris
posted by the primroses were over at 6:43 PM on August 19 [10 favorites]
posted by the primroses were over at 6:43 PM on August 19 [10 favorites]
I thought Steve Kerr gave a great speech, but it’s gonna be a weird Bulls season now that Rep. Ocasio-Cortez has burned the United Center completely to the ground.
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 6:45 PM on August 19 [20 favorites]
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 6:45 PM on August 19 [20 favorites]
That AOC speech will be talked about for years. Electrifying. I wasn't a fan of hers when she was first elected, but I was just utterly wrong. She's an astonishing talent.
posted by The Bellman at 6:50 PM on August 19 [21 favorites]
posted by The Bellman at 6:50 PM on August 19 [21 favorites]
Uncommitted has posted video of the Palestinian Human Rights panel on Twitter: https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1DXGydzywqdKM. Filmed from an audience member who jostles the camera a lot but you can hear it ok. Skip to 9:35 to hear the panelists introduce themselves:
- Hala Hijazi, a longtime Dem organizer and fundraiser whose initial comments are heartbreaking
- Jewish former U.S. Rep Andy Levin from Michigan, who was defeated by AIPAC money in a Dem primary when he ran for a 3rd term
- Uncommitted co-lead Layla Elabed
- Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan, pediatrician treating patients in Gaza, who talks at 21:36 about the horror she and other doctors see there - "We've never seen anything so egregious, so atrocious"
- Arab American Institute founder/president Jim Zogby
- MN Attorney General Keith Ellison
posted by mediareport at 6:57 PM on August 19 [16 favorites]
- Hala Hijazi, a longtime Dem organizer and fundraiser whose initial comments are heartbreaking
- Jewish former U.S. Rep Andy Levin from Michigan, who was defeated by AIPAC money in a Dem primary when he ran for a 3rd term
- Uncommitted co-lead Layla Elabed
- Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan, pediatrician treating patients in Gaza, who talks at 21:36 about the horror she and other doctors see there - "We've never seen anything so egregious, so atrocious"
- Arab American Institute founder/president Jim Zogby
- MN Attorney General Keith Ellison
posted by mediareport at 6:57 PM on August 19 [16 favorites]
Thanks mediareport! Though if anyone ends up finding a non-twitter source, that would also be much appreciated.
AOC's speech via Timothy Burke on youtube.
posted by the primroses were over at 7:01 PM on August 19 [23 favorites]
AOC's speech via Timothy Burke on youtube.
posted by the primroses were over at 7:01 PM on August 19 [23 favorites]
Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan is a pediatric surgeon, not a pediatrician. Sorry about that.
posted by mediareport at 7:03 PM on August 19 [1 favorite]
posted by mediareport at 7:03 PM on August 19 [1 favorite]
> That AOC speech will be talked about for years. Electrifying. I wasn't a fan of hers when she was first elected, but I was just utterly wrong. She's an astonishing talent.
six years ago: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Historic Win and the Future of the Democratic Party
six years ago: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Historic Win and the Future of the Democratic Party
In late December, 2016, Isra Allison, one of B.N.C.’s lead organizers, called Ocasio-Cortez just as she was leaving an anti-pipeline demonstration in Standing Rock, North Dakota. “She told me what B.N.C. was about,” Ocasio-Cortez recalled. “I was just, like, ‘O.K., I’m listening.’ By that time, they had policy plans, and Sanders was the political shorthand.” Ocasio-Cortez e-mailed Allison a video of a speech she had made at Boston University on Martin Luther King, Jr., Day and a description of her work as a waitress: “Having that small business experience opened my eyes to tons of issues—from labor law, to immigration. . . .”posted by kliuless at 7:07 PM on August 19 [10 favorites]
In her early conversations with Allison and others at B.N.C., Ocasio-Cortez was unnerved. “Where did I get off?” she said. “I mean, I’m going to tell people that I, as a waitress, should be their next congresswoman?”
[...]
When I asked her about her political heroes, though, there was no mention of anyone in the Marxist pantheon. She named Robert F. Kennedy. In college, reading his speeches—“that was my jam,” she said. R.F.K., at least in the last chapter of his life, his 1968 Presidential campaign, tried to forge a party coalition of workers, minorities, and the middle class.
It’s awful to say it, but I’d forgotten what a dreadful public speaker HRC is. She has the opposite gift to Bill’s: he can say some hokom and make it feel as if he’s revealing an intimate truth to you, warmly and with sincerity. Meanwhile HRC can say something meaningful and make it go CLANG in the ear, harsh and insincere. It shouldn’t matter, but it does.
posted by argybarg at 7:07 PM on August 19 [7 favorites]
posted by argybarg at 7:07 PM on August 19 [7 favorites]
I dunno, I thought Hillary's speech was pretty good.
posted by May Kasahara at 7:10 PM on August 19 [43 favorites]
posted by May Kasahara at 7:10 PM on August 19 [43 favorites]
Clinton’s speech was a fucking barnburner.
posted by mr_roboto at 7:16 PM on August 19 [32 favorites]
posted by mr_roboto at 7:16 PM on August 19 [32 favorites]
Clyburn is 84… you’d never know it from watching him speak. So much energy.
posted by azpenguin at 7:17 PM on August 19 [2 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 7:17 PM on August 19 [2 favorites]
Holy cats, Jasmine Crockett’s outfit is amazing.
posted by azpenguin at 7:27 PM on August 19 [8 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 7:27 PM on August 19 [8 favorites]
Holy cats, Jasmine Crockett is amazing!
posted by platinum at 7:34 PM on August 19 [15 favorites]
posted by platinum at 7:34 PM on August 19 [15 favorites]
Holy cats, Jasmine Crockett is amazing!
Damn right.
posted by azpenguin at 7:36 PM on August 19 [8 favorites]
Damn right.
posted by azpenguin at 7:36 PM on August 19 [8 favorites]
Audience reacts to Kamala Harris’ unexpected entry on DNC night one 😍
posted by Glinn at 7:39 PM on August 19 [14 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 7:39 PM on August 19 [14 favorites]
everyone of these speeches is bringing me to tears for all kinds of different reasons.
posted by bluesky43 at 7:42 PM on August 19 [19 favorites]
posted by bluesky43 at 7:42 PM on August 19 [19 favorites]
Liveblog at WaPo: Rep. Jamie Raskin, a Maryland Democrat speaking now, was one of the lead members on the House select committee that investigated Trump’s conduct on Jan. 6, 2021, and is giving the most detailed criticism yet of what Trump did on and around that day.
“I’ll never forget the pounding on the doors of the House chamber on Jan. 6,” he said, giving a detailed account of that violent day. He is talking about the deaths, the weapons used and the injuries people suffered. He is now describing in detail Trump’s efforts to overturn the election. “Remember what the mob chanted as they stormed the Capitol? Hang Mike Pence,” he said. One of the things he just said that is likely to anger Trump? That Pence and more than two dozen other Trump officials refuse to endorse him. “They tried to kill your predecessor,” Raskin said to Trump running mate JD Vance.
Liveblog at WaPo: Wow, this montage about Donald Trump is way different than what Joe Biden and his campaign did. Biden told his team not to comment on any of the prosecutions against Trump, to not give the appearance that he was involved in the prosecutions. That, at times, really frustrated Biden’s aides. This montage is about Trump’s convictions, other criminal allegations, “retribution” that Trump has promised if he won office and “justice, accountability and the rule of law.”
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:55 PM on August 19 [17 favorites]
“I’ll never forget the pounding on the doors of the House chamber on Jan. 6,” he said, giving a detailed account of that violent day. He is talking about the deaths, the weapons used and the injuries people suffered. He is now describing in detail Trump’s efforts to overturn the election. “Remember what the mob chanted as they stormed the Capitol? Hang Mike Pence,” he said. One of the things he just said that is likely to anger Trump? That Pence and more than two dozen other Trump officials refuse to endorse him. “They tried to kill your predecessor,” Raskin said to Trump running mate JD Vance.
Liveblog at WaPo: Wow, this montage about Donald Trump is way different than what Joe Biden and his campaign did. Biden told his team not to comment on any of the prosecutions against Trump, to not give the appearance that he was involved in the prosecutions. That, at times, really frustrated Biden’s aides. This montage is about Trump’s convictions, other criminal allegations, “retribution” that Trump has promised if he won office and “justice, accountability and the rule of law.”
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:55 PM on August 19 [17 favorites]
WATCH: With large copy of Project 2025, Michigan state Sen. McMorrow speaks at 2024 DNC
Superstar. Cabinet position?
posted by Glinn at 7:56 PM on August 19 [11 favorites]
Superstar. Cabinet position?
posted by Glinn at 7:56 PM on August 19 [11 favorites]
The main thing I am taking away from this convention and from AOC, Jasmine Crockett, Raphael Warnock, et al. is that our bench is deep and it is inspirational. So looking forward to this new generation of the party.
Keep Going.
posted by bl1nk at 8:00 PM on August 19 [51 favorites]
Keep Going.
posted by bl1nk at 8:00 PM on August 19 [51 favorites]
It's just such a stark choice.
Can you even imagine TFG coming out, smiling, looking joyful? I can not.
posted by Windopaene at 8:02 PM on August 19 [6 favorites]
Can you even imagine TFG coming out, smiling, looking joyful? I can not.
posted by Windopaene at 8:02 PM on August 19 [6 favorites]
Did CSPAN just hard cut off at 10 CST? (edit: continued to CSPAN on YouTube)
posted by credulous at 8:04 PM on August 19
posted by credulous at 8:04 PM on August 19
WaPo liveblog: In 2022, after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, Donald Trump told advisers that it could be politically hurtful for the Republican Party. Some described it privately as the dog who caught the car. It has been the most challenging issue for the party since then. Tonight, the DNC has a video montage reminding watchers across the country that Supreme Court justices Trump appointed helped overturn the law — and with personal stories of women. [...]
The arena has been filled with applause and cheering through the night, but it dropped to near-silence as activist Hadley Duvall recounted how she was the victim of sexual assault and became pregnant by her stepfather at age 12.
“That was the first time I was ever told you have options. I can’t imagine not having a choice, but today, that’s the reality for many women and girls across the country because of Donald Trump’s abortion bans,” she said. “He calls it ‘a beautiful thing.’ What is so beautiful about a child having to carry her parent’s child?”
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:05 PM on August 19 [23 favorites]
The arena has been filled with applause and cheering through the night, but it dropped to near-silence as activist Hadley Duvall recounted how she was the victim of sexual assault and became pregnant by her stepfather at age 12.
“That was the first time I was ever told you have options. I can’t imagine not having a choice, but today, that’s the reality for many women and girls across the country because of Donald Trump’s abortion bans,” she said. “He calls it ‘a beautiful thing.’ What is so beautiful about a child having to carry her parent’s child?”
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:05 PM on August 19 [23 favorites]
It's just a stark choice.
Can you even imagine TFG coming out, smiling, looking joyful? I can not.
The RNC was pretty much a joyless affair. Talking about how horrible things are in the US. This, on the other hand, has been an amazing night.
posted by azpenguin at 8:05 PM on August 19 [4 favorites]
Can you even imagine TFG coming out, smiling, looking joyful? I can not.
The RNC was pretty much a joyless affair. Talking about how horrible things are in the US. This, on the other hand, has been an amazing night.
posted by azpenguin at 8:05 PM on August 19 [4 favorites]
Did CSPAN just hard cut off at 10 CST?
Seems to still be live on their youtube feed
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:06 PM on August 19
Seems to still be live on their youtube feed
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:06 PM on August 19
Shawn Fain, great speech.
Geez what are these happy (?) feelings.
posted by Glinn at 8:10 PM on August 19 [8 favorites]
Geez what are these happy (?) feelings.
posted by Glinn at 8:10 PM on August 19 [8 favorites]
lol from bsky: Walz's kids giving him bunny ears on national television.
posted by mediareport at 8:12 PM on August 19 [19 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 8:12 PM on August 19 [19 favorites]
Had to turn it off to get ready for bed, but one of my favorite moments of the evening was Kathy Hochul saying, “If you think you’re tired of Donald Trump, talk to a New Yorker." So true (yeah, I'm in North Jersey but we've been sick of him for about as long); it felt good for someone to tell that to the rest of the country.
posted by May Kasahara at 8:18 PM on August 19 [26 favorites]
posted by May Kasahara at 8:18 PM on August 19 [26 favorites]
I'd love it if they'd stop doing the super derisive "sex with a poooaaaawwwwrrrn star" thing. Would it have been better if he'd fucked a novitiate? It's gross to see a party that could be about to elect the first woman president lean into slut shaming to score cheap points.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:19 PM on August 19 [16 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:19 PM on August 19 [16 favorites]
I loved Raskin's description of the opposition: "The incorrigible recidivist con man Donald Trump and his pet chameleon J.D. Vance."
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:23 PM on August 19 [26 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:23 PM on August 19 [26 favorites]
Seriously, May Kasahara, I've lived most of my 53 years in New Jersey, and I'm tired of hearing about Trump. I know people who were contractors that were screwed by Trump's famous inability to actually pay people who did work for him. I don't know why that particular issue doesn't get more play.
posted by mollweide at 8:26 PM on August 19 [14 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 8:26 PM on August 19 [14 favorites]
Everybody got a We heart Joe sign. aww dang
posted by Glinn at 8:28 PM on August 19 [14 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 8:28 PM on August 19 [14 favorites]
Biden is up now, although it might be a few hours before the ovation quiets down.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:29 PM on August 19 [15 favorites]
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:29 PM on August 19 [15 favorites]
This is the third chant I cannot understand. Get it together, people.
posted by Glinn at 8:30 PM on August 19 [2 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 8:30 PM on August 19 [2 favorites]
I thought I couldn't adore Tim Walz any more than I do (why YES I had a shitty father, why do you ask?) but seeing him so emotional is just pushing me right over the edge! Positive masculinity! It's a good thing!
posted by cooker girl at 8:35 PM on August 19 [29 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 8:35 PM on August 19 [29 favorites]
Congressman Jamie Raskin lost his 25-year-old son to suicide on the last day of 2020.
The Raskin family laid Thomas to rest on Jan. 5, 2021.
Rep. Raskin went in to work the next day, bringing his daughter and son-in-law with him.
NPR interviewed Raskin on Jan. 4, 2022:
There was a time, he says, when "I wasn't sure whether I was ever going to be able to do anything again."
Then House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., asked him to serve as the lead manager in the second impeachment trial of President Donald Trump. Looking back now, Raskin sees Pelosi's request as a lifeline.
"I was forced to galvanize all of my love for Tommy and my daughters, Hannah and Tabitha, and my wife, Sarah, and our family and our country, and to throw myself into the trial to make the case that Donald Trump had incited this violent insurrection in an effort to overthrow the 2020 presidential election," Raskin says.
"I personally felt no fear, because the very worst thing that ever could have happened to me had already happened to me," he says. "And so my feeling to the people who want to take down our democracy is that they're not going to scare me out of doing my job."
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:36 PM on August 19 [55 favorites]
The Raskin family laid Thomas to rest on Jan. 5, 2021.
Rep. Raskin went in to work the next day, bringing his daughter and son-in-law with him.
NPR interviewed Raskin on Jan. 4, 2022:
There was a time, he says, when "I wasn't sure whether I was ever going to be able to do anything again."
Then House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., asked him to serve as the lead manager in the second impeachment trial of President Donald Trump. Looking back now, Raskin sees Pelosi's request as a lifeline.
"I was forced to galvanize all of my love for Tommy and my daughters, Hannah and Tabitha, and my wife, Sarah, and our family and our country, and to throw myself into the trial to make the case that Donald Trump had incited this violent insurrection in an effort to overthrow the 2020 presidential election," Raskin says.
"I personally felt no fear, because the very worst thing that ever could have happened to me had already happened to me," he says. "And so my feeling to the people who want to take down our democracy is that they're not going to scare me out of doing my job."
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:36 PM on August 19 [55 favorites]
"When unions do well, we all do well."
Amen, Mr. President.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:49 PM on August 19 [24 favorites]
Amen, Mr. President.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:49 PM on August 19 [24 favorites]
I have never experienced this much excitement about a convention. These speeches are telling us the same stuff, in detail. And it's moving and exciting. I feel hopeful. Given that things changed radically a few weeks ago and the convention, speakers and speeches are still really great. I'm sitting at home with the dog applauding Joe Biden who did the smart, right thing, at no small cost. That was my daughter! - Joe Biden
posted by theora55 at 8:52 PM on August 19 [16 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 8:52 PM on August 19 [16 favorites]
"He's the loser!"
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:53 PM on August 19 [6 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:53 PM on August 19 [6 favorites]
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:
Sen. John Fetterman says he's skipping Democratic convention in Chicago
The senator says he would rather spend time with his kids
CHICAGO — Gov. Josh Shapiro is here. So is Lt. Gov. Austin Davis. And U.S. Sen. Bob Casey. But U.S. Sen. John Fetterman is not. He apparently has decided to stay home.
Mr. Fetterman did not respond to requests for comment from the Post-Gazette but told The Free Press that he had other things to do. “I’ve got three young kids, and they’re out of school,” he said. “That’s four days I can spend with my children.”
posted by mediareport at 9:07 PM on August 19 [4 favorites]
Sen. John Fetterman says he's skipping Democratic convention in Chicago
The senator says he would rather spend time with his kids
CHICAGO — Gov. Josh Shapiro is here. So is Lt. Gov. Austin Davis. And U.S. Sen. Bob Casey. But U.S. Sen. John Fetterman is not. He apparently has decided to stay home.
Mr. Fetterman did not respond to requests for comment from the Post-Gazette but told The Free Press that he had other things to do. “I’ve got three young kids, and they’re out of school,” he said. “That’s four days I can spend with my children.”
posted by mediareport at 9:07 PM on August 19 [4 favorites]
I am not having any luck finding this on my own, but I abhor watching speeches and was wondering if there was any place one could find written transcripts of these great speeches?
posted by kitten kaboodle at 9:08 PM on August 19
posted by kitten kaboodle at 9:08 PM on August 19
Dang he almost had it, then he said both sides. : /
A bit overlong, Joe. But you've done a great thing, so have at it.
posted by Glinn at 9:10 PM on August 19 [5 favorites]
A bit overlong, Joe. But you've done a great thing, so have at it.
posted by Glinn at 9:10 PM on August 19 [5 favorites]
Joe is the better version of Joe tonight, and I'm glad of it, and glad of the work that he's done. But he's also giving a demonstration in how even that is a far cry from the level at which Kamala is operating more or less constantly.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:13 PM on August 19 [16 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:13 PM on August 19 [16 favorites]
"Like many of our best presidents, she's also been vice president." LOL.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:14 PM on August 19 [36 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:14 PM on August 19 [36 favorites]
Democrats show up to work, to work.
The House Republicans effectively paralyzed a branch of government for three weeks last fall, peacocking and faffing about, until they compromised on Speaker Mike Johnson. They're 'anti' big government, despite being part of it, and obstruct proceedings whenever they can, by shirking, slacking, and preventing the adults on the other side of the aisle actually trying to do their jobs... and Republicans still get paid, and enjoy a full benefits package including excellent health insurance.
They are grifters, which is why they have made Trump their king.
I loved this bit in AOC's speech, and her delivery - "Ever since I got elected, Republicans have attacked me, by saying I should go back to bartending. But let me tell you: I am happy to, any day of the week, because there is nothing wrong with working for a living."
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:17 PM on August 19 [55 favorites]
The House Republicans effectively paralyzed a branch of government for three weeks last fall, peacocking and faffing about, until they compromised on Speaker Mike Johnson. They're 'anti' big government, despite being part of it, and obstruct proceedings whenever they can, by shirking, slacking, and preventing the adults on the other side of the aisle actually trying to do their jobs... and Republicans still get paid, and enjoy a full benefits package including excellent health insurance.
They are grifters, which is why they have made Trump their king.
I loved this bit in AOC's speech, and her delivery - "Ever since I got elected, Republicans have attacked me, by saying I should go back to bartending. But let me tell you: I am happy to, any day of the week, because there is nothing wrong with working for a living."
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:17 PM on August 19 [55 favorites]
on the other hand, he just called Trump out for the fucking piece of shit he is.
posted by mollweide at 9:17 PM on August 19 [10 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 9:17 PM on August 19 [10 favorites]
(That wasn't me slagging Joe, above. I was quite possibly The Very Last MeFite Off the Biden Train.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:25 PM on August 19 [17 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:25 PM on August 19 [17 favorites]
Am I losing my mind or did he just kind of kill it? What am I feeling here? I'm too old for this shit.
posted by The Bellman at 9:25 PM on August 19 [11 favorites]
posted by The Bellman at 9:25 PM on August 19 [11 favorites]
Seemed like he took the gloves off.
posted by suelac at 9:28 PM on August 19 [5 favorites]
posted by suelac at 9:28 PM on August 19 [5 favorites]
kitten kaboodle, most of the youtube clips have an imperfect transcript feature if you click "more" in the gray box below the video. There will be a line, "follow along with the transcript" and clicking the link below that puts a scrolling transcript in the upper right corner. I usually increase the vid playback speed, mute the sound, and read instead. At C-SPAN, there's a text/transcript feature below the video, too.
The properly-transcribed materials usually appear the day following the speech; it's interesting to read the "text of the speech provided to" whichever outlet before the event, then read the transcript of the speech as delivered (like with Trump's RNC address - he goes off book and off the deep end, and it's not like the prepared speech was well-balanced).
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:28 PM on August 19 [5 favorites]
The properly-transcribed materials usually appear the day following the speech; it's interesting to read the "text of the speech provided to" whichever outlet before the event, then read the transcript of the speech as delivered (like with Trump's RNC address - he goes off book and off the deep end, and it's not like the prepared speech was well-balanced).
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:28 PM on August 19 [5 favorites]
Joe Biden argued his conscience - for the times he was born from, lived through, and will eventually end in - is full and legit. He demonstrated a certain level of mastery that is aspirational. The fact he can claim with a straight face and minimal stutter he entered the Senate and was dismissed as being too young, and is exiting off of concerns of being too old, is to me something to reflect on. He's conscious of it. He's conscious of his public actions, and can articulate them reasonably well. Heaven only knows what else he's conscious of.
posted by JoeXIII007 at 9:34 PM on August 19 [19 favorites]
posted by JoeXIII007 at 9:34 PM on August 19 [19 favorites]
Heaven only knows what else he's conscious of.
The friendships with segregationists that he's bragged about often?
posted by Gadarene at 9:39 PM on August 19 [2 favorites]
The friendships with segregationists that he's bragged about often?
posted by Gadarene at 9:39 PM on August 19 [2 favorites]
Dang he almost had it, then he said both sides.
Oh ffs. Innocent people have been killed by Hammas and innocent people are dying every day in Gaza. The scale may be different but if you believe for one moment that both of these things are not true then you’re not actually paying attention.
There is nothing at all wrong with saying that peace would be better for all the parties involved. Zero. Warnnock said something similar and I don’t see anybody giving him shit about it.
posted by anastasiav at 9:46 PM on August 19 [33 favorites]
Oh ffs. Innocent people have been killed by Hammas and innocent people are dying every day in Gaza. The scale may be different but if you believe for one moment that both of these things are not true then you’re not actually paying attention.
There is nothing at all wrong with saying that peace would be better for all the parties involved. Zero. Warnnock said something similar and I don’t see anybody giving him shit about it.
posted by anastasiav at 9:46 PM on August 19 [33 favorites]
The scale may be different
The scale is VERY different.
posted by Gadarene at 9:50 PM on August 19 [17 favorites]
The scale is VERY different.
posted by Gadarene at 9:50 PM on August 19 [17 favorites]
WaPo, on Biden's speech:
Biden entered the stage while dabbing at his eyes after being introduced by his daughter, Ashley Biden. The crowd applauded for minutes, chanting “Thank you, Joe.”
“Because of you, we’ve had one of the most extraordinary four years of progress ever, period,” Biden said. “When I saw ‘we,’ I mean Kamala and me.”
Biden mentioned Harris’s help in capping insulin at $35 a month and passing a significant gun safety bill. He talked about working on reopening schools and businesses with Harris. He noted she cast a key tie-breaking vote in the Senate on prescription drugs.
And Biden didn’t shy away from the elephant in the room.
“I love the job, but I love my country more,” Biden said, before adding: “And all this talk about how I’m angry at all those people who said I should step down, that’s not true. I love my country more. And we need to preserve our democracy in 2024.”
Perhaps the biggest applause line came near the end.
“America, America, I gave my best to you,” Biden said. “I made a lot of mistakes in my career. But I gave my best to you for 50 years.”
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:19 PM on August 19 [37 favorites]
Biden entered the stage while dabbing at his eyes after being introduced by his daughter, Ashley Biden. The crowd applauded for minutes, chanting “Thank you, Joe.”
“Because of you, we’ve had one of the most extraordinary four years of progress ever, period,” Biden said. “When I saw ‘we,’ I mean Kamala and me.”
Biden mentioned Harris’s help in capping insulin at $35 a month and passing a significant gun safety bill. He talked about working on reopening schools and businesses with Harris. He noted she cast a key tie-breaking vote in the Senate on prescription drugs.
And Biden didn’t shy away from the elephant in the room.
“I love the job, but I love my country more,” Biden said, before adding: “And all this talk about how I’m angry at all those people who said I should step down, that’s not true. I love my country more. And we need to preserve our democracy in 2024.”
Perhaps the biggest applause line came near the end.
“America, America, I gave my best to you,” Biden said. “I made a lot of mistakes in my career. But I gave my best to you for 50 years.”
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:19 PM on August 19 [37 favorites]
Walz Saves The Day After Shapiro Ditches Harris In Pennsylvania
Harris made the right choice.
posted by ishmael at 10:23 PM on August 19 [9 favorites]
Harris made the right choice.
posted by ishmael at 10:23 PM on August 19 [9 favorites]
From AOC:
posted by spamandkimchi at 10:31 PM on August 19 [34 favorites]
We cannot send Kamala and Tim to the White House alone together. We must also elect strong democratic majorities in the House and in the Senate, so that we can deliver on an ambitious agenda for the people. Because if you are a working parent trying to afford rent and childcare, Kamala is for you.And state legislatures! And city councils! I've talked to my students so much about how much we need the federal government to step up investment in public housing, building new subsidized housing and rehabbing deteriorating units (instead of tearing them down), permanently affordable housing units, and not just the 15 year or 30 years we get from Low Income Housing Tax Credit developments. Excited to delve into the Harris-Walz proposals this semester.
posted by spamandkimchi at 10:31 PM on August 19 [34 favorites]
We must also elect strong democratic majorities in the House and in the Senate, so that we can deliver on an ambitious agenda for the people.
I loved her saying that and it needs to be a big part of the messaging. I loved Obama's Hope and Change, but we didn't elect enough Democrats to give him the backing he needed.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:34 PM on August 19 [16 favorites]
I loved her saying that and it needs to be a big part of the messaging. I loved Obama's Hope and Change, but we didn't elect enough Democrats to give him the backing he needed.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:34 PM on August 19 [16 favorites]
WaPo takeaway from the DNC's first day, #3:
The pandemic was a more surprising focus — but also one with a personal touch. Speakers spoke about Trump’s lack of leadership, his efforts to downplay the threat and his conspiracy theories. And more than one speaker spoke from the heart as the relative of someone who died.
Rep. Robert Garcia (D-Calif.) mentioned the deaths of his health-care-worker mother and stepfather and added, “When Donald Trump and his MAGA extremists like Marjorie Taylor Greene downplayed the horror of the pandemic, it should make us all furious.”
An emotional Minnesota Lt. Gov. Peggy Flanagan (D) spoke of her brother’s death and said, “Our communities were suffering. Our economy was struggling. And Donald Trump was playing games. Our country was brought to the brink by his failure to respond.”
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:40 PM on August 19 [9 favorites]
The pandemic was a more surprising focus — but also one with a personal touch. Speakers spoke about Trump’s lack of leadership, his efforts to downplay the threat and his conspiracy theories. And more than one speaker spoke from the heart as the relative of someone who died.
Rep. Robert Garcia (D-Calif.) mentioned the deaths of his health-care-worker mother and stepfather and added, “When Donald Trump and his MAGA extremists like Marjorie Taylor Greene downplayed the horror of the pandemic, it should make us all furious.”
An emotional Minnesota Lt. Gov. Peggy Flanagan (D) spoke of her brother’s death and said, “Our communities were suffering. Our economy was struggling. And Donald Trump was playing games. Our country was brought to the brink by his failure to respond.”
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:40 PM on August 19 [9 favorites]
Also NPR put together all the speeches in a handy dandy single page.
posted by spamandkimchi at 10:47 PM on August 19 [23 favorites]
posted by spamandkimchi at 10:47 PM on August 19 [23 favorites]
Seemed like he took the gloves off.
I hope Harris honors Biden's service and fights for the job, and I hope voters step up and honor it on election day. Mainly I'm glad someone openly called Trump a loser - and that's going to burn that cult of fuckin' weirdos, because they all know it in their hearts, too.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:13 PM on August 19 [7 favorites]
I hope Harris honors Biden's service and fights for the job, and I hope voters step up and honor it on election day. Mainly I'm glad someone openly called Trump a loser - and that's going to burn that cult of fuckin' weirdos, because they all know it in their hearts, too.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:13 PM on August 19 [7 favorites]
I'm seeing clips and reports of the crowd/delegates drowning out the anti-war crowd (even a banner snatching) eg from Ryan Grim. But June Rose, one of the Uncommitted delegates whose profile I shared, has also been popping up my timeline with their anecdotes from the floor eg:
'I just spoke with a Harris delegate at #DNC2024.
'He said he already signed the letter demanding @VP support a permanent ceasefire + arms embargo bc… ANOTHER HARRIS DELEGATE asked him.
'They’re organizing themselves now! The movement for a free Palestine is spreading in the DNC.'
YMMV on what it means on the bean-counting side - I don't have enough procedural acumen to make any useful observations.
posted by cendawanita at 11:22 PM on August 19 [12 favorites]
'I just spoke with a Harris delegate at #DNC2024.
'He said he already signed the letter demanding @VP support a permanent ceasefire + arms embargo bc… ANOTHER HARRIS DELEGATE asked him.
'They’re organizing themselves now! The movement for a free Palestine is spreading in the DNC.'
YMMV on what it means on the bean-counting side - I don't have enough procedural acumen to make any useful observations.
posted by cendawanita at 11:22 PM on August 19 [12 favorites]
Oh huh: (MJ) Here’s How the Uncommitted Movement Will Push at the DNC
- Members will advocate for an arms embargo, asking fellow attendees to sign a pledge and declare themselves “ceasefire delegates.”
And an update from the writer, Sophie Hurwitz: Update: as of now, the number of Harris delegates signed on to the ceasefire/arms embargo letter has nearly reached 200.
posted by cendawanita at 12:43 AM on August 20 [16 favorites]
- Members will advocate for an arms embargo, asking fellow attendees to sign a pledge and declare themselves “ceasefire delegates.”
And an update from the writer, Sophie Hurwitz: Update: as of now, the number of Harris delegates signed on to the ceasefire/arms embargo letter has nearly reached 200.
posted by cendawanita at 12:43 AM on August 20 [16 favorites]
Are there any side by side comparisons of the RNC and the DNC yet? I seem to remember delegates sort of disappearing from the RNC because it was so boring and dystopian, but maybe that's just something I imagine.
posted by mumimor at 2:31 AM on August 20 [2 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 2:31 AM on August 20 [2 favorites]
I found this about crowd sizes:
https://www.newsweek.com/dnc-crowd-size-compared-rnc-photos-1941552
and this about the signs:
https://eu.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/08/19/dnc-usa-rnc-mass-deportations-convention-signs/74866588007/
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:01 AM on August 20 [3 favorites]
https://www.newsweek.com/dnc-crowd-size-compared-rnc-photos-1941552
and this about the signs:
https://eu.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/08/19/dnc-usa-rnc-mass-deportations-convention-signs/74866588007/
posted by Too-Ticky at 4:01 AM on August 20 [3 favorites]
Walz Saves The Day After Shapiro Ditches Harris In Pennsylvania
So I watched the first part of that video and I gotta say I am less and less interested in the kind of morning zoo political commentary that happens around 38 seconds into that podcast, when the host calls Shapiro "this little bitch" who's "crying that he didn't get selected for VP." No offense meant, ishmael, and I've done my share of that kind of "analysis," but these days that style of goofy dj stuff just strikes me as dumb and unhelpful. Not to mention all the self-promotion that comes with that style.
I understand this means I can't listen to almost all modern political podcasts, so I avoid them. Life is pretty ok anyway.
posted by mediareport at 4:44 AM on August 20 [27 favorites]
So I watched the first part of that video and I gotta say I am less and less interested in the kind of morning zoo political commentary that happens around 38 seconds into that podcast, when the host calls Shapiro "this little bitch" who's "crying that he didn't get selected for VP." No offense meant, ishmael, and I've done my share of that kind of "analysis," but these days that style of goofy dj stuff just strikes me as dumb and unhelpful. Not to mention all the self-promotion that comes with that style.
I understand this means I can't listen to almost all modern political podcasts, so I avoid them. Life is pretty ok anyway.
posted by mediareport at 4:44 AM on August 20 [27 favorites]
The Best and Worst Moments from Night 1 of the Convention (smug NYT punditry, kind of the middlebrow text version of the morning-zoo YouTubers that mediareport refers to above)
posted by box at 5:51 AM on August 20 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 5:51 AM on August 20 [1 favorite]
> I loved Obama's Hope and Change, but we didn't elect enough Democrats to give him the backing he needed.
Both Obama and Biden had thin majorities but also inherited a flaming bag of dogshit of a global situation alongside it.
Given the demographics then, the economy needed to grow +2M jobs/yr but had lost 4M from the Jan 2008 peak to Jan 2009, with another 4M to lose until the early 2010 nadir when the electorate in its infinite collective wisdom put the GOP back into power that November.
As we all remember, in 2020 12M people got laid off and only half of them came back by Election Day.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1sSzx compares # jobs (blue) to "full employment" (76% of age 15 - 64, red)
posted by torokunai at 5:55 AM on August 20 [7 favorites]
Both Obama and Biden had thin majorities but also inherited a flaming bag of dogshit of a global situation alongside it.
Given the demographics then, the economy needed to grow +2M jobs/yr but had lost 4M from the Jan 2008 peak to Jan 2009, with another 4M to lose until the early 2010 nadir when the electorate in its infinite collective wisdom put the GOP back into power that November.
As we all remember, in 2020 12M people got laid off and only half of them came back by Election Day.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1sSzx compares # jobs (blue) to "full employment" (76% of age 15 - 64, red)
posted by torokunai at 5:55 AM on August 20 [7 favorites]
Am I losing my mind or did he just kind of kill it? What am I feeling here? I'm too old for this shit.
I subscribe to the hypothesis that Joe Biden played everyone with his performance at the debate, setting up the "perfect storm" of conditions to step aside, hand off the baton to Harris, and enjoy a well earned retirement.
Back when lifespans were shorter (everyone smoked and drank all the time, healthcare wasn't as advanced, and car safety standards were primitive) Steppenwolf released "Don't step on the grass, Sam", a pro-marijuana anthem.
John Kay wrote:
Baruch Hashem!
posted by mikelieman at 6:35 AM on August 20 [16 favorites]
I subscribe to the hypothesis that Joe Biden played everyone with his performance at the debate, setting up the "perfect storm" of conditions to step aside, hand off the baton to Harris, and enjoy a well earned retirement.
Back when lifespans were shorter (everyone smoked and drank all the time, healthcare wasn't as advanced, and car safety standards were primitive) Steppenwolf released "Don't step on the grass, Sam", a pro-marijuana anthem.
John Kay wrote:
Just as soon as you are goneAs a Gen-X'er over the years I have given up on them not "stay[ing] around too long". I tear up watching Crockett, Warnock, and Ocasio-Cortez because I finally feel like the tide has turned, there's a breath of fresh air, a new day is dawning. This is the bees knees, the mutt's nuts, the cat's pajamas and the best thing since sliced bread.
Hope will start to climb
Please don't stay around too long
You're wasting precious time
Baruch Hashem!
posted by mikelieman at 6:35 AM on August 20 [16 favorites]
I subscribe to the hypothesis that Joe Biden played everyone with his performance at the debate
Yeah, start at 30 seconds into this clip, watch the next 30 seconds, and then tell me you still subscribe to that hypothesis. Come on. If the moderator hadn't interrupted him with "Thank you Mr. President" it would have been even more cringe-inducing. Seriously, people need to stop with this "Biden's debate performance was 12th-level chess" stuff. Talk about gaslighting, jeez.
Both Obama and Biden had thin majorities but also inherited a flaming bag of dogshit of a global situation alongside it.
Obama was also too young, a terrible negotiator who gave away the store too early on multiple issues, and someone who listened to right-leaning corporatist Dems on way too many issues, like the folks who convinced him early on to back off from his campaign promise to codify Roe v. Wade because it would be too troublesome, and the folks who convinced him not to include direct assistance to Americans at the bottom screwed over by the Americans at the top (who got lots of assistance) during the subprime mortgage debacle. He was not an effective president in many, many ways.
posted by mediareport at 6:49 AM on August 20 [24 favorites]
Yeah, start at 30 seconds into this clip, watch the next 30 seconds, and then tell me you still subscribe to that hypothesis. Come on. If the moderator hadn't interrupted him with "Thank you Mr. President" it would have been even more cringe-inducing. Seriously, people need to stop with this "Biden's debate performance was 12th-level chess" stuff. Talk about gaslighting, jeez.
Both Obama and Biden had thin majorities but also inherited a flaming bag of dogshit of a global situation alongside it.
Obama was also too young, a terrible negotiator who gave away the store too early on multiple issues, and someone who listened to right-leaning corporatist Dems on way too many issues, like the folks who convinced him early on to back off from his campaign promise to codify Roe v. Wade because it would be too troublesome, and the folks who convinced him not to include direct assistance to Americans at the bottom screwed over by the Americans at the top (who got lots of assistance) during the subprime mortgage debacle. He was not an effective president in many, many ways.
posted by mediareport at 6:49 AM on August 20 [24 favorites]
I loved Obama's Hope and Change, but we didn't elect enough Democrats to give him the backing he needed.
For the first 2 years of President Obama's term, the Democrats held a supermajority in the Senate (60 seats, meaning they could not be stopped by a filibuster) and and a 78-seat majority in the House. That very large advantage is why we got the Affordable Care Act. But Obama, politically speaking, was no progressive; he very famously observed that in terms of the positions he held, "[Richard] Nixon was more liberal." Now, the press were terrible to Obama once he took office, and there's no reason to suspect they won't be terrible to a President Harris (if they don't turn on her sooner.)
That isn't to rebut AOC's call to action; we should absolutely work hard to elect as many Democrats to as many offices as we can. We should definitely do that.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 6:51 AM on August 20 [16 favorites]
For the first 2 years of President Obama's term, the Democrats held a supermajority in the Senate (60 seats, meaning they could not be stopped by a filibuster) and and a 78-seat majority in the House. That very large advantage is why we got the Affordable Care Act. But Obama, politically speaking, was no progressive; he very famously observed that in terms of the positions he held, "[Richard] Nixon was more liberal." Now, the press were terrible to Obama once he took office, and there's no reason to suspect they won't be terrible to a President Harris (if they don't turn on her sooner.)
That isn't to rebut AOC's call to action; we should absolutely work hard to elect as many Democrats to as many offices as we can. We should definitely do that.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 6:51 AM on August 20 [16 favorites]
Yeah, I feel like early Obama suffered from trying to make sure he wasn't the /last/ black president, playing it cautious.
posted by kaibutsu at 6:58 AM on August 20 [4 favorites]
posted by kaibutsu at 6:58 AM on August 20 [4 favorites]
Yeah, Obama was always a centrist. He was treated by a communist by Fox News, but he was never about upending (or even addressing) the social, political, and economic order. He was not a good negotiator, and it took him way too long to realize that the Republicans were never arguing, negotiating, or gesturing in good faith.
I am hoping Harris is a little bit more politically savvy (she certainly is more experienced than he was), and even if we have a slightly-liberal corporate Democrat, I hope it's one that's a bit more Theodore Roosevelt in differing a strong position from a weak one, seeing where progress and progressivism is generally popular, and not trusting the Rahm Emmanuels of the world with understanding the future.
Her choice of Walz is good, and she seems to be playing footsie with a lot of factions of the Democrats while understanding the Democrats are the ones with which she needs to negotiate not the Opposition.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 6:59 AM on August 20 [13 favorites]
I am hoping Harris is a little bit more politically savvy (she certainly is more experienced than he was), and even if we have a slightly-liberal corporate Democrat, I hope it's one that's a bit more Theodore Roosevelt in differing a strong position from a weak one, seeing where progress and progressivism is generally popular, and not trusting the Rahm Emmanuels of the world with understanding the future.
Her choice of Walz is good, and she seems to be playing footsie with a lot of factions of the Democrats while understanding the Democrats are the ones with which she needs to negotiate not the Opposition.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 6:59 AM on August 20 [13 favorites]
I'm seeing clips and reports of the crowd/delegates drowning out the anti-war crowd (even a banner snatching)
One thing making the social rounds is this clip [Twitter] of a white guy in the cheap seats smacking a woman in a hijab over the head with his sign as she peacefully holds up a protest banner.
posted by mediareport at 7:03 AM on August 20 [3 favorites]
One thing making the social rounds is this clip [Twitter] of a white guy in the cheap seats smacking a woman in a hijab over the head with his sign as she peacefully holds up a protest banner.
posted by mediareport at 7:03 AM on August 20 [3 favorites]
I like to think I am among friends here, so let me speak plainly... My comments here will show I may have been one of the last onto the Biden train, but I might have been one of the last off, too. I was loathe to cast aside the man who beat Trump to go to someone else last minute. I know Biden has issues, but I think history will eventually conclude he had an LBJ-like run of success at actually getting a lot of notable things done, even if he demurred at some of the bolder stuff we wanted.
Even so, I was against replacing him mostly because I never dreamed the Dems would have enough sense to replace him quickly without a lot of bullshit and chaos. And I never dreamed Harris would both get the latitude to run her campaign her way and would shake off conventional Dem tactics in such an astute way.
All of this said, the narrative that he was clear and strong last night... Ugh. I mean, he was the better version of his 2024 self, but he still lost his wind multiple times, misspoke, got briefly confused... I'm just amazed at the BIDEN WAS SO STRONG narrative when the reality was clearly, "Grandpa made one last go and basically kept it together."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:04 AM on August 20 [28 favorites]
Even so, I was against replacing him mostly because I never dreamed the Dems would have enough sense to replace him quickly without a lot of bullshit and chaos. And I never dreamed Harris would both get the latitude to run her campaign her way and would shake off conventional Dem tactics in such an astute way.
All of this said, the narrative that he was clear and strong last night... Ugh. I mean, he was the better version of his 2024 self, but he still lost his wind multiple times, misspoke, got briefly confused... I'm just amazed at the BIDEN WAS SO STRONG narrative when the reality was clearly, "Grandpa made one last go and basically kept it together."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:04 AM on August 20 [28 favorites]
For the first 2 years of President Obama's term, the Democrats held a supermajority in the Senate (60 seats, meaning they could not be stopped by a filibuster)
The Democrats did not have a full the 60, the number bounced around a lot during those first 2 years, for various reasons.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:06 AM on August 20 [18 favorites]
The Democrats did not have a full the 60, the number bounced around a lot during those first 2 years, for various reasons.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:06 AM on August 20 [18 favorites]
...the folks who convinced [Obama] not to include direct assistance to Americans at the bottom screwed over by the Americans at the top (who got lots of assistance) during the subprime mortgage debacle.
I'll say it over and over that this was the moment where the Tea Party got traction, which got us to MAGA. All Obama had to do was help the little guy out a bit more during the 2008 recovery, and he blew it.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:10 AM on August 20 [8 favorites]
I'll say it over and over that this was the moment where the Tea Party got traction, which got us to MAGA. All Obama had to do was help the little guy out a bit more during the 2008 recovery, and he blew it.
posted by JoeZydeco at 7:10 AM on August 20 [8 favorites]
The Democrats did not have a full the 60
At the lowest point, they had 58 Senators and a huge House majority. Can you imagine what we could do with that now? Getting rid of the filibuster would be job #1, of course, if Dems actually cared about helping people instead of protecting "The Institution" or whatever they tell themselves. Obama for years kept on ignoring the fact that McConnell and the rest of the GOP were dead-set on hobbling anything he really wanted to do (I mean, they fucking *announced it*), and wasted so much valuable time trying to appease them in a futile attempt to portray himself as a bipartisan moderate instead of getting progressive shit done when he had the chance.
posted by mediareport at 7:17 AM on August 20 [15 favorites]
At the lowest point, they had 58 Senators and a huge House majority. Can you imagine what we could do with that now? Getting rid of the filibuster would be job #1, of course, if Dems actually cared about helping people instead of protecting "The Institution" or whatever they tell themselves. Obama for years kept on ignoring the fact that McConnell and the rest of the GOP were dead-set on hobbling anything he really wanted to do (I mean, they fucking *announced it*), and wasted so much valuable time trying to appease them in a futile attempt to portray himself as a bipartisan moderate instead of getting progressive shit done when he had the chance.
posted by mediareport at 7:17 AM on August 20 [15 favorites]
Ok, the announcement came in 2010, but as that article says, "...Republicans pledging to embrace an agenda for the next two years that sounds a lot like their agenda for the past two: Block Obama at all costs."
I'll stop now. Tonight's line-up looks fun.
posted by mediareport at 7:20 AM on August 20 [2 favorites]
I'll stop now. Tonight's line-up looks fun.
posted by mediareport at 7:20 AM on August 20 [2 favorites]
I've always thought that Obama at least at some level believed in trickle-down economics. He truly believed that if the government took care of the largest pillars of the wealthy and powerful, the middle class and then the working class would benefit. If CitiBank and Bank of America made it, so would all their employees and clients. Needless to say, this economic view is . . . quite naive, and it very much helped paint the Democratic Party as friends of the elites, and the Tea Party movement swooped in to repaint reactionary social and economic policies as anti-elite.
Moving on, the Democratic Party is finally, finally questioning its neoliberal heritage, even as it still platforms them at the Convention. H. Clinton learned too late that the neoliberal politics of her husband were a poor fit for 2016, and they're an even poorer fit in 2024. Democrats are finally, finally not running from social issues (as much). Last night was a voracious defense of abortion access. That would not have happened in 2008.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 7:28 AM on August 20 [21 favorites]
Moving on, the Democratic Party is finally, finally questioning its neoliberal heritage, even as it still platforms them at the Convention. H. Clinton learned too late that the neoliberal politics of her husband were a poor fit for 2016, and they're an even poorer fit in 2024. Democrats are finally, finally not running from social issues (as much). Last night was a voracious defense of abortion access. That would not have happened in 2008.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 7:28 AM on August 20 [21 favorites]
The Democrats did not have a full the 60
At the lowest point, they had 58 Senators and a huge House majority.
Yes, true. Another way of looking at it is that the Democrats hadn't enjoyed that much power in the Executive and Legislative branches since the Carter administration (The 103rd Congress, during the first 2 years of Clinton's presidency, had 57 Democrats for part of 1993, down to 53 by 1994).
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 7:34 AM on August 20 [5 favorites]
At the lowest point, they had 58 Senators and a huge House majority.
Yes, true. Another way of looking at it is that the Democrats hadn't enjoyed that much power in the Executive and Legislative branches since the Carter administration (The 103rd Congress, during the first 2 years of Clinton's presidency, had 57 Democrats for part of 1993, down to 53 by 1994).
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 7:34 AM on August 20 [5 favorites]
I'll say it over and over that this was the moment where the Tea Party got traction, which got us to MAGA. All Obama had to do was help the little guy out a bit more during the 2008 recovery, and he blew it.
While we all think it's a better outcome for more of that help to go to people, all the economic help in the world wouldn't have stopped it. It was inherently anti-progressive and the racism was slowly brewing underneath it's surface (I don't remember it being that open as it is now but maybe I just wasn't seeing). There never was any logic in that movement, just rage that Obama was president.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:40 AM on August 20 [8 favorites]
While we all think it's a better outcome for more of that help to go to people, all the economic help in the world wouldn't have stopped it. It was inherently anti-progressive and the racism was slowly brewing underneath it's surface (I don't remember it being that open as it is now but maybe I just wasn't seeing). There never was any logic in that movement, just rage that Obama was president.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 7:40 AM on August 20 [8 favorites]
A few notes, I'd like to say after watching the Convention:
-AOC and Warnock have it. They are really good crowd-speakers and they felt both focused on the peril of Trump but the possibilities of a Harris presidency.
-Clinton is not a great crowd-speaker, but she's alright at setting up parallels and arguments.
-Biden got through it, but it looks like it took him everything to do so. He should have quit sooner, but he ultimately quit before it got worse, so that counts for something.
-Great to hear the Kohenim blessings chanted during the benediction at the end.
-Peggy Flanagan is a great presence. If all good comes to pass and she ascends to the Governorship of Minnesota, I'm really interested in her as the future of the DFL/Democratic party.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 7:40 AM on August 20 [6 favorites]
-AOC and Warnock have it. They are really good crowd-speakers and they felt both focused on the peril of Trump but the possibilities of a Harris presidency.
-Clinton is not a great crowd-speaker, but she's alright at setting up parallels and arguments.
-Biden got through it, but it looks like it took him everything to do so. He should have quit sooner, but he ultimately quit before it got worse, so that counts for something.
-Great to hear the Kohenim blessings chanted during the benediction at the end.
-Peggy Flanagan is a great presence. If all good comes to pass and she ascends to the Governorship of Minnesota, I'm really interested in her as the future of the DFL/Democratic party.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 7:40 AM on August 20 [6 favorites]
obama was also a master of negotiating against himself - his starting position was always what he thought the republicans and conservative dems would agree to so that there was no way they could refuse without looking like bug-eyed maniacs. if we're being charitable, we might think that obama never tried to 'help the little guy' because he believed republicans would never agree to it. right up until the end he was always trying to placate them with ineffectual compromises. like merrick garland.
posted by logicpunk at 7:42 AM on August 20 [22 favorites]
posted by logicpunk at 7:42 AM on August 20 [22 favorites]
The convention really hammered home to me that public speaking in terms of convincingly delivering prepared remarks and public speaking in terms of speaking sincerely and intelligently off the cuff about the issues are not necessarily skills with a 100% overlap.
Some of the speakers who sounded great are not people I find particularly compelling or convincing when they are peppered with questions in front of a podium or made to expound without notes in an extended interview or livestream. Some of the people who sounded alright but not amazing are people I feel I can depend on to speak their mind plainly and sharply when approached with a microphone and no notes.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:54 AM on August 20 [7 favorites]
Some of the speakers who sounded great are not people I find particularly compelling or convincing when they are peppered with questions in front of a podium or made to expound without notes in an extended interview or livestream. Some of the people who sounded alright but not amazing are people I feel I can depend on to speak their mind plainly and sharply when approached with a microphone and no notes.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:54 AM on August 20 [7 favorites]
it's basically 'live band' vs 'studio band' but politics.
posted by kaibutsu at 8:35 AM on August 20 [14 favorites]
posted by kaibutsu at 8:35 AM on August 20 [14 favorites]
I'm just amazed at the BIDEN WAS SO STRONG narrative when the reality was clearly, "Grandpa made one last go and basically kept it together."
I can see where you're coming from, but my takeaway was different. Biden had to do something I can't remember a one-term President ever doing: tout the accomplishments of his administration and then pass the torch on to their own VP. Biden did this with grace, humor and conviction. The bit where he (quite angrily) mentioned the articles that claim he's bitter at the Democrats for how things turned out was especially compelling to me ("I love this job, but I love my country more"), and painted a deep contrast with Trump. Biden, now that he doesn't have to campaign, let his anger and disgust at Trump out at points, which felt good to see.
He consistently gave Harris credit for many of his administration's signature achievements, and the whole passing of the torch part of his speech was moving, I thought; he seems to really believe in Harris.
Yes, he's 2024 Joe Biden, with all that means, but I wasn't thinking "grandpa basically kept it together;" I saw the most powerful person in the world voluntarily step aside before he had to for the good of his country, and put the finishing touches on his final act with grace, dignity, humility, humor and fire.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 8:52 AM on August 20 [46 favorites]
I can see where you're coming from, but my takeaway was different. Biden had to do something I can't remember a one-term President ever doing: tout the accomplishments of his administration and then pass the torch on to their own VP. Biden did this with grace, humor and conviction. The bit where he (quite angrily) mentioned the articles that claim he's bitter at the Democrats for how things turned out was especially compelling to me ("I love this job, but I love my country more"), and painted a deep contrast with Trump. Biden, now that he doesn't have to campaign, let his anger and disgust at Trump out at points, which felt good to see.
He consistently gave Harris credit for many of his administration's signature achievements, and the whole passing of the torch part of his speech was moving, I thought; he seems to really believe in Harris.
Yes, he's 2024 Joe Biden, with all that means, but I wasn't thinking "grandpa basically kept it together;" I saw the most powerful person in the world voluntarily step aside before he had to for the good of his country, and put the finishing touches on his final act with grace, dignity, humility, humor and fire.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 8:52 AM on August 20 [46 favorites]
(re: oratory with prepared remarks vs authentic off-the-cuff public speaking)
This is also the theory around why Republicans keep asking Kamala to give a press conference or get into more unscripted situations; because their theory is that she isn't great at these off-the-cuff moments (especially based on some awkward interviews); but they also tried to run other footage of Kamala saying stuff that the political establishment would consider "rambly" or "goofy" but instead have been embraced by the populace as charming memes; and I think a lot of the improvisational stuff that she's done lately has been great.
The difference between her performance as VP where she has had to perform a role as an important but auxiliary member of an administration vs. being in a position where she can mold the campaign around herself and the ease that it's given her has been transformative.
It's like the best example of "bring your whole self to work" that we've ever seen.
posted by bl1nk at 8:58 AM on August 20 [14 favorites]
This is also the theory around why Republicans keep asking Kamala to give a press conference or get into more unscripted situations; because their theory is that she isn't great at these off-the-cuff moments (especially based on some awkward interviews); but they also tried to run other footage of Kamala saying stuff that the political establishment would consider "rambly" or "goofy" but instead have been embraced by the populace as charming memes; and I think a lot of the improvisational stuff that she's done lately has been great.
The difference between her performance as VP where she has had to perform a role as an important but auxiliary member of an administration vs. being in a position where she can mold the campaign around herself and the ease that it's given her has been transformative.
It's like the best example of "bring your whole self to work" that we've ever seen.
posted by bl1nk at 8:58 AM on August 20 [14 favorites]
Damn, y'all. The Dems gotta get some more AOC's. Her speech was incredible.
posted by kensington314 at 9:00 AM on August 20 [14 favorites]
posted by kensington314 at 9:00 AM on August 20 [14 favorites]
I think the GOP wants Harris to submit to interviews and pressers because they fully grok that the establishment is set up to hold Dems to an unreachable set of standards, while their guy gets praised for being presidential if he can refrain from praising the size of his genitals or suggesting we should do some public executions.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:04 AM on August 20 [29 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:04 AM on August 20 [29 favorites]
I have some thoughts about the programming of this first day. Democrats have, for a long time, been pretty gunshy about progressivism - not least because they've talked to other left-wing parties that had to embrace neoliberalism to survive in the 90s, but also because "communism" and "socialism" were potent attacks in America for decades. While it's still true, to an extent - the diverse coalition the Democrats desire includes people who fled communist regimes who Do Not Want Communism - it's also true that those attacks have overreached, targeting successful welfare state programs operated by nearly all of America's allies.
It's also important, I think, that progressives and leftists have gotten a lot better at selling their ideas. Sanders is happy to be called a socialist, even though in truth most of his ideas are democratic socialism, but leftists have been pretty confident for a while now that Americans like their ideas when they're described to them, so if they sell the ideas piecemeal, rather than as A Socialist Program, they're broadly popular. (Walz demonstrates an evolution of this, calling his welfare programs "neighbourliness".) Critically, a lot of the leftists who have been popular have also been able to play ball with the party - Sanders campaigned for Clinton, and AOC went from being too radical to be a speaker at the DNC to being on the first day, and acts like publicly defending Biden after the debate certainly helped signal that she wasn't willing to throw the team under the bus to achieve her personal goals.
The upshot of this is that Democrats have stopped pushing leftists like AOC away as being damaging to the wider party, and have started including them as part of the coalition. We saw the start of this in 2016, when Clinton ran on a compromise agenda that was more left-wing then she wanted, and clearly the Democrats didn't see Clinton's loss as a rejection of this agenda. Come 2024, we're seeing the President make full-throated defences of unions, we're seeing the leadership be publicly supportive of the pro-Palestine movement (even if it's contentious amongst convention goers themselves, if the leadership really wanted to stop it, they would), we're seeing the American government get into building housing. More importantly, we're not seeing a lot of tack towards neoliberal centrism that the radical centrist columnists keep demanding. The strategy appears to be that the substance is written with leftist contributions, bold but not radical in the dictionary sense, and then the candidates themselves present the agenda as just common-sense neighbourliness.
posted by Merus at 9:04 AM on August 20 [25 favorites]
It's also important, I think, that progressives and leftists have gotten a lot better at selling their ideas. Sanders is happy to be called a socialist, even though in truth most of his ideas are democratic socialism, but leftists have been pretty confident for a while now that Americans like their ideas when they're described to them, so if they sell the ideas piecemeal, rather than as A Socialist Program, they're broadly popular. (Walz demonstrates an evolution of this, calling his welfare programs "neighbourliness".) Critically, a lot of the leftists who have been popular have also been able to play ball with the party - Sanders campaigned for Clinton, and AOC went from being too radical to be a speaker at the DNC to being on the first day, and acts like publicly defending Biden after the debate certainly helped signal that she wasn't willing to throw the team under the bus to achieve her personal goals.
The upshot of this is that Democrats have stopped pushing leftists like AOC away as being damaging to the wider party, and have started including them as part of the coalition. We saw the start of this in 2016, when Clinton ran on a compromise agenda that was more left-wing then she wanted, and clearly the Democrats didn't see Clinton's loss as a rejection of this agenda. Come 2024, we're seeing the President make full-throated defences of unions, we're seeing the leadership be publicly supportive of the pro-Palestine movement (even if it's contentious amongst convention goers themselves, if the leadership really wanted to stop it, they would), we're seeing the American government get into building housing. More importantly, we're not seeing a lot of tack towards neoliberal centrism that the radical centrist columnists keep demanding. The strategy appears to be that the substance is written with leftist contributions, bold but not radical in the dictionary sense, and then the candidates themselves present the agenda as just common-sense neighbourliness.
posted by Merus at 9:04 AM on August 20 [25 favorites]
I'm really pleased that AOC didn't let the abuse she got in her first term drive her out of politics -- she's said she thought seriously about not running for re-election -- because she seems to have learned the art of having both strong political beliefs and also working with centrists. It's a tricky balance, but it means you can be more effective at getting work done, not just being a moral exemplar.
posted by tavella at 9:08 AM on August 20 [25 favorites]
posted by tavella at 9:08 AM on August 20 [25 favorites]
I saw the most powerful person in the world voluntarily step aside before he had to for the good of his country, and put the finishing touches on his final act with grace, dignity, humility, humor and fire.
Voluntary is doing a lot of work there. He left when it was clear he was set up for a humiliating defeat, amd the rest of the party was going to work to eject him, with or without allowing him the figleaf of a resignation.
I am glad we can be rid of him without getting Trump.
Damn, y'all. The Dems gotta get some more AOC's. Her speech was incredible.
She really is a gifted speaker. She's a natural at connecting with an audience. I am so glad to finally have the party actually use her talents.
Warnock was fantastic too. His rebuke of Trump's appropriation of Christianity for his cause resonated with people I really would not have expected to ever take seriously anything a Black politician said.
Even Hillary Clinton was surprisingly personable if still not a scintillating speaker. Everyone was bringing their A game last night.
posted by pattern juggler at 9:12 AM on August 20 [15 favorites]
Voluntary is doing a lot of work there. He left when it was clear he was set up for a humiliating defeat, amd the rest of the party was going to work to eject him, with or without allowing him the figleaf of a resignation.
I am glad we can be rid of him without getting Trump.
Damn, y'all. The Dems gotta get some more AOC's. Her speech was incredible.
She really is a gifted speaker. She's a natural at connecting with an audience. I am so glad to finally have the party actually use her talents.
Warnock was fantastic too. His rebuke of Trump's appropriation of Christianity for his cause resonated with people I really would not have expected to ever take seriously anything a Black politician said.
Even Hillary Clinton was surprisingly personable if still not a scintillating speaker. Everyone was bringing their A game last night.
posted by pattern juggler at 9:12 AM on August 20 [15 favorites]
Where is the schedule of speakers for tonight?
posted by jointhedance at 9:12 AM on August 20
posted by jointhedance at 9:12 AM on August 20
Here’s who’s speaking on Day 2 of the DNC
posted by kirkaracha at 9:16 AM on August 20 [9 favorites]
- Illinois Gov. JB Pritzker, who had been in consideration for Harris’ running mate
- Senate Majority leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y.
- Democratic Sen. Tammy Duckworth of Illinois
- Independent Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont
- New Mexico Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham
- Mesa, Ariz., Mayor John Giles, a Republican
I like Pritzker as much as I can like a billionaire, which is to say if the revolution comes, I will cheerfully support redistributing everything he owns, but would hesitate to actually line him against a wall.
Duckworth can be hilarious and savage. That one will be must-see.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:19 AM on August 20 [19 favorites]
Duckworth can be hilarious and savage. That one will be must-see.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:19 AM on August 20 [19 favorites]
I like Pritzker as much as I can like a billionaire, which is to say if the revolution comes, I will support redistributing everything he owns, but would not want to line him against a wall.
Love this.
posted by Gadarene at 9:25 AM on August 20 [4 favorites]
Love this.
posted by Gadarene at 9:25 AM on August 20 [4 favorites]
AOC is what you get when you have a progressive who actually cares about governance, and not just appearances. She knows that it's more effective to drag the party forward from within, than it is to chide and scold the party from outside.
Absolute rockstar. The perfect counterpoint to all the self-important, self-defeating faux leftists who only care about total ideological purity, and never accomplish anything.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 9:40 AM on August 20 [48 favorites]
Absolute rockstar. The perfect counterpoint to all the self-important, self-defeating faux leftists who only care about total ideological purity, and never accomplish anything.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 9:40 AM on August 20 [48 favorites]
Michelle Lujan Grisham takes out ads in five Texas newspapers encouraging doctors to relocate to New Mexico (The Hill, last week).
posted by box at 9:42 AM on August 20 [11 favorites]
posted by box at 9:42 AM on August 20 [11 favorites]
Absolute rockstar. The perfect counterpoint to all the self-important, self-defeating faux leftists who only care about total ideological purity, and never accomplish anything.
What Democratic electeds are you talking about though. Manchin and Sinema were the spoilers in our most recent years of agony.
posted by kensington314 at 9:43 AM on August 20 [14 favorites]
What Democratic electeds are you talking about though. Manchin and Sinema were the spoilers in our most recent years of agony.
posted by kensington314 at 9:43 AM on August 20 [14 favorites]
In re: Obama Back in 2018 or so, when full episodes from the early aughts onward were on Hulu, I did a full rewatch of Saturday Night Live. A couple things stand out to me, even 5 years later:
1. Both trump jokes and trump himself came up fairly regularly from the 00s onward. With his TV show on NBC, I presume a lot of this was just cross-promotion, but I was appalled by how ominipresent he was even before he was president. We all like to remember Alec Baldwin's impression, but we had Phil Hartman and Darrell Hammond on deck for decades before that.
2. During the first two years of Obama's term, Weekend Update absolutely harped on him for "not doing anything." Having lived through it also, it did feel like that.
3. It's pretty stunning how SNL is now so enmeshed with our electoral process. Even now it's a big, "Who will it be?" regarding who plays Walz. I don't have much observation here, but it's obviously affected my view of the presidental election.
posted by frecklefaerie at 9:46 AM on August 20 [1 favorite]
1. Both trump jokes and trump himself came up fairly regularly from the 00s onward. With his TV show on NBC, I presume a lot of this was just cross-promotion, but I was appalled by how ominipresent he was even before he was president. We all like to remember Alec Baldwin's impression, but we had Phil Hartman and Darrell Hammond on deck for decades before that.
2. During the first two years of Obama's term, Weekend Update absolutely harped on him for "not doing anything." Having lived through it also, it did feel like that.
3. It's pretty stunning how SNL is now so enmeshed with our electoral process. Even now it's a big, "Who will it be?" regarding who plays Walz. I don't have much observation here, but it's obviously affected my view of the presidental election.
posted by frecklefaerie at 9:46 AM on August 20 [1 favorite]
Oh, I'm not talking about any dem electeds. Just the extremely online leftists who think that participating in the US political system whatsoever is counter-revolutionary.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 9:47 AM on August 20 [12 favorites]
posted by mrjohnmuller at 9:47 AM on August 20 [12 favorites]
I think Obama was too caught up in respectability politics more than centrism and in many ways I don’t blame him because that’s something that’s really hammered into your psyche when you are a minority in predominantly white institutions.
I’ve been wondering if Michelle Obama will allude to “when they go low, we go high” in her speech this week. It was well-received at the time but has been almost universally rejected now.
posted by girlmightlive at 9:51 AM on August 20 [6 favorites]
I’ve been wondering if Michelle Obama will allude to “when they go low, we go high” in her speech this week. It was well-received at the time but has been almost universally rejected now.
posted by girlmightlive at 9:51 AM on August 20 [6 favorites]
Would very much argue the people that elect obstructive, right-wing democrats over progressive ones and put mass resources into primarying them and voting them out of office do a hell of a lot more damage than any little straw tankie shithead that does revolutionary posturing on twitter.
posted by windbox at 9:51 AM on August 20 [15 favorites]
posted by windbox at 9:51 AM on August 20 [15 favorites]
That AOC line about going back to bartending, great stuff. That lady sure can communicate with a young working class listener.
posted by kensington314 at 9:55 AM on August 20 [11 favorites]
posted by kensington314 at 9:55 AM on August 20 [11 favorites]
I don't think that praise for AOC was hard to follow or controversial, but if we want to get tripped up in phrasing and derail for a bit, that is a choice that is available, I guess.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:56 AM on August 20 [2 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:56 AM on August 20 [2 favorites]
To whoever is looking, Democracy Now justed posted their coverage of the Palestinian human rights panel, with substantial clips. Not quite the full panel but just like the panel, good enough for now.
posted by cendawanita at 9:58 AM on August 20 [13 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 9:58 AM on August 20 [13 favorites]
It doesn't have to be a dichotomy. You can care about making the current system more humane, even while you work to replace it with something better. We all have limited resources, so you can't do both at 100%, but nobody needs to do everything.
I think we can do better than capitalism, but I'd much rather live in Ocasio-Cortes' and Sanders' version of it than Donlad Trump and Peter Thiel's in the meantime.
not sure anyone on Mefi has ever proposed "going to live in the woods" as their electoral strategy of choice?
I tried but my wife said no.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:00 AM on August 20 [12 favorites]
I think we can do better than capitalism, but I'd much rather live in Ocasio-Cortes' and Sanders' version of it than Donlad Trump and Peter Thiel's in the meantime.
not sure anyone on Mefi has ever proposed "going to live in the woods" as their electoral strategy of choice?
I tried but my wife said no.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:00 AM on August 20 [12 favorites]
Tim Walz, Chinese government agent
(Not a derail, this is posted in the WaPo coverage of the convention.)
posted by kensington314 at 10:05 AM on August 20 [4 favorites]
(Not a derail, this is posted in the WaPo coverage of the convention.)
posted by kensington314 at 10:05 AM on August 20 [4 favorites]
I know that, like debates, conventions are watched by almost no one who matters and only function politically as grist for how various media outlets interpret the candidates.
Still.
It is wild to watch the Morning in America / Mourning in America side-by-side of the DNC / RNC and think anyone would want to be associated with the Republican Party. I am super put off by the presence of the Clintons at the DNC, whatever strategic value it surely has, and I could never stand and ovate for Joe Fucking Biden. But I have to think, put someone in front of 10 minutes of Raphael Warnock or Tim Walz or AOC or Kamala Harris on TV and then ask them to compare it to that weird dirge that was punctuated by a goofy Hulk Hogan cameo. I know there's racism and all but it's just like, to the average person, what even was that display at the RNC? It's like some kind of real life Jumanji where 8chan came out of the computer and put on a groyper conference.
Buuut, while I do come from the Real America part of California, I know my view is compromised by the fact that I'm a coastal lefty.
posted by kensington314 at 10:15 AM on August 20 [4 favorites]
Still.
It is wild to watch the Morning in America / Mourning in America side-by-side of the DNC / RNC and think anyone would want to be associated with the Republican Party. I am super put off by the presence of the Clintons at the DNC, whatever strategic value it surely has, and I could never stand and ovate for Joe Fucking Biden. But I have to think, put someone in front of 10 minutes of Raphael Warnock or Tim Walz or AOC or Kamala Harris on TV and then ask them to compare it to that weird dirge that was punctuated by a goofy Hulk Hogan cameo. I know there's racism and all but it's just like, to the average person, what even was that display at the RNC? It's like some kind of real life Jumanji where 8chan came out of the computer and put on a groyper conference.
Buuut, while I do come from the Real America part of California, I know my view is compromised by the fact that I'm a coastal lefty.
posted by kensington314 at 10:15 AM on August 20 [4 favorites]
People talk about Obama starting negotiations where he thought he could get the Republicans to accept a compromise - it was more like he was starting from a point where he could get his own damn party to pass bills. The ACA barely got through the house by the barest minimum of margins despite a 70+ seat majority in the House. It's not because it didn't go far enough, it was because Blue Dog dems were freaking out about re-election and trying to triangulate, running away from that dang socialism stuff, and the bill had to be written in a way that they could get 218 votes. A bunch of them ran in 2010 talking about how they were "standing up to Obama." We all saw how that worked out, with half the Blue Dogs losing their seats.
posted by azpenguin at 10:17 AM on August 20 [21 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 10:17 AM on August 20 [21 favorites]
The right’s serious minds have a Tim-Walz-Chinese-sleeper-agent theory
That's okay, Vance is allegedly a sleeper-sofa agent.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:18 AM on August 20 [36 favorites]
That's okay, Vance is allegedly a sleeper-sofa agent.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:18 AM on August 20 [36 favorites]
Speaking of porn stars (XBIZ is a major news outlet for the adult industry):
New Democratic Party Platform Removes Language Supporting Sex Workers
(Gustavo Turner at XBIZ)
New Democratic Party Platform Removes Language Supporting Sex Workers
(Gustavo Turner at XBIZ)
Both the 2020 and the 2024 platforms contain sections titled “Ending Violence Against Women,” in which Democrats commit to “ending sexual assault, domestic abuse and other violence against women.”posted by adrienneleigh at 10:21 AM on August 20 [15 favorites]
The 2020 platform voted by the convention that nominated President Joe Biden, however, included the following passage: “We recognize that sex workers, who are disproportionately women of color and transgender women, face especially high rates of sexual assault and violence, and we will work with states and localities to protect the lives of sex workers.”
The 2024 version released over the weekend, expected to be approved at the Democratic National Convention currently taking place in Chicago, omits the statement recognizing the existence of sex workers and stating a commitment to protect their lives.
As XBIZ reported, Vice President Kamala Harris, the presumptive Democratic nominee for president, has been widely criticized by both sex worker and adult industry activists and organizations for her vocal support of, and prosecution of cases under, the controversial FOSTA-SESTA legislation.
Also, excellent reporting from the convention at Defector, which is nominally a sports website but in reality is in the top tier of journalistic outlets in 2024.
A Night With The Party Animals (Hamilton Nolan at Defector)
A Night With The Party Animals (Hamilton Nolan at Defector)
Those who can fully buy into the Democratic Party as an identity in itself—rather than buying into a political ideology, which forces you to forever be tortured by the party’s failure to live up to its moral demands—have a straightforward recipe for satisfaction: Democrats win. All is well. You can see the appeal. From the ideological point of view, an interesting consequence of these party animals is that they will take whatever the party feeds them, and embrace it. That is bad when the party feeds them Neoliberalism at Gunpoint, but in 2024 it can be good, since the swinging pendulum is forcing the party to feed them new things. These people would clap for Bill Clinton talking about ending welfare as we know it, but they will clap equally loudly for AOC talking about the mandate of helping the working class. The important thing is not the content, but the fact that the person is appearing on a really well-lit convention stage. The Democratic Party is a cafeteria that serves one thing each day and the party faithful will invariably eat it. So the real fight goes on in the kitchen. The real fight is in writing the menu.posted by adrienneleigh at 10:25 AM on August 20 [11 favorites]
It's not because it didn't go far enough, it was because Blue Dog dems were freaking out about re-election and trying to triangulate, running away from that dang socialism stuff, and the bill had to be written in a way that they could get 218 votes. A bunch of them ran in 2010 talking about how they were "standing up to Obama." We all saw how that worked out, with half the Blue Dogs losing their seats.
This. I have my problems with Obama, mostly about education policy and drone bombs, but on most domestic policy stuff it always felt like he was hampered by his party at least as much as he was by his own vision.
I guess in retrospect the biggest fail of the Obama presidency was a too-small economic package that condemned the country to an absolutely brutal decade of slow recovery, which seems to have permanently reshaped our politics. I think probably that call came from inside the house (the White House had a Wall Street Wing in the Obama years where the influence of people like Summers and Geithner held far too much sway), but so much of domestic policy just seemed fucked from the jump because the party itself had to deal with this group of Dems in Congress that was well to the right of the Administration.
posted by kensington314 at 10:26 AM on August 20 [4 favorites]
This. I have my problems with Obama, mostly about education policy and drone bombs, but on most domestic policy stuff it always felt like he was hampered by his party at least as much as he was by his own vision.
I guess in retrospect the biggest fail of the Obama presidency was a too-small economic package that condemned the country to an absolutely brutal decade of slow recovery, which seems to have permanently reshaped our politics. I think probably that call came from inside the house (the White House had a Wall Street Wing in the Obama years where the influence of people like Summers and Geithner held far too much sway), but so much of domestic policy just seemed fucked from the jump because the party itself had to deal with this group of Dems in Congress that was well to the right of the Administration.
posted by kensington314 at 10:26 AM on August 20 [4 favorites]
Voluntary is doing a lot of work there. He left when it was clear he was set up for a humiliating defeat, amd the rest of the party was going to work to eject him, with or without allowing him the figleaf of a resignation.
I stand by it. It took him a while, because of his particular history of often being told he was not the right guy for the job and then proving otherwise, but importantly, (and in contrast with Trump), he accepted the feedback he was being given and acted on it, and despite "sources say" kind of reports that he's bitter about it, he has consistently put the party unity and the good of the country first, including last night's speech. Would it have been nicer if he'd accepted the feedback sooner? Or realized that while he'd still make a great President, he was no longer up to campaigning for President? Sure. But the point is (and again in contrast with Trump) he is not trying to cling on to power or the Presidency, and he is actively championing and seems to really believe in his successor in the party. That's huge, I think.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 10:31 AM on August 20 [18 favorites]
I stand by it. It took him a while, because of his particular history of often being told he was not the right guy for the job and then proving otherwise, but importantly, (and in contrast with Trump), he accepted the feedback he was being given and acted on it, and despite "sources say" kind of reports that he's bitter about it, he has consistently put the party unity and the good of the country first, including last night's speech. Would it have been nicer if he'd accepted the feedback sooner? Or realized that while he'd still make a great President, he was no longer up to campaigning for President? Sure. But the point is (and again in contrast with Trump) he is not trying to cling on to power or the Presidency, and he is actively championing and seems to really believe in his successor in the party. That's huge, I think.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 10:31 AM on August 20 [18 favorites]
So I watched the first part of that video and I gotta say I am less and less interested in the kind of morning zoo political commentary
That's fair, mediareport. I gotta say, I had the same reaction when I first started listening to them. And I don't think anyone should slog through that if it's too off-putting.
I will say that when they do have analysis on a complicated issue, it is pretty well thought out. I don't agree with them about everything, but I feel like the Majority Report and the people in their orbit are better at directly countering right-wing messaging, better than more mainstream analysts like the Pod Save America guys.
posted by ishmael at 10:36 AM on August 20
That's fair, mediareport. I gotta say, I had the same reaction when I first started listening to them. And I don't think anyone should slog through that if it's too off-putting.
I will say that when they do have analysis on a complicated issue, it is pretty well thought out. I don't agree with them about everything, but I feel like the Majority Report and the people in their orbit are better at directly countering right-wing messaging, better than more mainstream analysts like the Pod Save America guys.
posted by ishmael at 10:36 AM on August 20
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:Slight derail, but I'd advise sharing anything from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Workers have been on strike there for 22 months now, and the paper's being put out by scab labor. The striking workers have been putting out their own paper, the Pittsburgh Union Progress.
Sen. John Fetterman says he's skipping Democratic convention in Chicago
The senator says he would rather spend time with his kids
posted by heteronym at 10:46 AM on August 20 [51 favorites]
Honestly, maybe the best part of Harris 2024 is being able to present a Dem candidate without 18 preceding months of other Dems telling everyone who will listen what irredeemable trash they are.
The campaigns should ALL be this short.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:50 AM on August 20 [79 favorites]
The campaigns should ALL be this short.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:50 AM on August 20 [79 favorites]
OK, but what is it with Fetterman?
posted by mumimor at 10:50 AM on August 20 [3 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 10:50 AM on August 20 [3 favorites]
OK, but what is it with Fetterman?
Probably there's a dress code and he refused to replace his cargo shorts and sweatshirt like a fucking sellout.
posted by kensington314 at 10:52 AM on August 20 [2 favorites]
Probably there's a dress code and he refused to replace his cargo shorts and sweatshirt like a fucking sellout.
posted by kensington314 at 10:52 AM on August 20 [2 favorites]
OK, but what is it with Fetterman?
He's kinda done a 180 in regards to being a progressive, don't know if it's his physical condition or what, but it is troubling.
posted by ishmael at 10:54 AM on August 20 [15 favorites]
He's kinda done a 180 in regards to being a progressive, don't know if it's his physical condition or what, but it is troubling.
posted by ishmael at 10:54 AM on August 20 [15 favorites]
Wasn't invited because he's a dick about Israel (and, from a lot of accounts, in general), told the story about his kids to save face.
posted by box at 10:55 AM on August 20 [4 favorites]
posted by box at 10:55 AM on August 20 [4 favorites]
He did have a stroke, and it's well known that brain damage can cause a person to adopt more conservative political opinions.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:56 AM on August 20 [7 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:56 AM on August 20 [7 favorites]
Wasn't invited because he's a dick about Israel (and, from a lot of accounts, in general), told the story about his kids to save face.
Is there a source on that? I'd be interested to read from this particular gossip mill. The whole party is so shit about Israel/Palestine, it would be remarkable for someone to be able to find the line and then actually cross it.
posted by kensington314 at 10:56 AM on August 20 [4 favorites]
Is there a source on that? I'd be interested to read from this particular gossip mill. The whole party is so shit about Israel/Palestine, it would be remarkable for someone to be able to find the line and then actually cross it.
posted by kensington314 at 10:56 AM on August 20 [4 favorites]
you guys you guys what if Beyoncé shows up with Kamala
posted by Glinn at 10:58 AM on August 20 [15 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 10:58 AM on August 20 [15 favorites]
you guys you guys what if Beyoncé shows up with Kamala
Kamala Harris steps on stage flanked by Beyonce, Tay Tay, and Charli XCX. County clerks across the land experience mental breakdowns under the burden of the flood of new voter registration.
posted by kensington314 at 11:02 AM on August 20 [28 favorites]
Kamala Harris steps on stage flanked by Beyonce, Tay Tay, and Charli XCX. County clerks across the land experience mental breakdowns under the burden of the flood of new voter registration.
posted by kensington314 at 11:02 AM on August 20 [28 favorites]
you guys you guys what if Beyoncé shows up with Kamala
[explodes]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:02 AM on August 20 [6 favorites]
[explodes]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:02 AM on August 20 [6 favorites]
Is there a source on that?
Nah, I just made it up.
I once visited Pennsylvania, though, so feel free to call me 'a source close to the Fetterman camp' on Twitter.
posted by box at 11:04 AM on August 20 [9 favorites]
Nah, I just made it up.
I once visited Pennsylvania, though, so feel free to call me 'a source close to the Fetterman camp' on Twitter.
posted by box at 11:04 AM on August 20 [9 favorites]
> I like Pritzker as much as I can like a billionaire, which is to say if the revolution comes, I will cheerfully support redistributing everything he owns, but would hesitate to actually line him against a wall.
But would you have a Malört with him?
Pritzker day-drinking with Jordan Klepper from The Daily Show
posted by needled at 11:13 AM on August 20 [3 favorites]
But would you have a Malört with him?
Pritzker day-drinking with Jordan Klepper from The Daily Show
posted by needled at 11:13 AM on August 20 [3 favorites]
In all seriousness, Fetterman has had documented issues with audio processing after the stroke and I can't imagine a worse place to be when dealing with that than a convention floor.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:24 AM on August 20 [16 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:24 AM on August 20 [16 favorites]
I had thought that Fetterman might be avoiding the convention out of unhappiness at Biden's being pushed out of the race. But that's just speculation... so it's worth exactly as much as all the other speculation about him above.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 11:25 AM on August 20
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 11:25 AM on August 20
DirtyOldTown, he had to hold on to the lectern, he's visibly frail. I agree, I never imagined Dems would show so much solidarity so fast. Really enjoying this. We should find out what the stars look like, or maybe there's something in the water. it's really aberrant behavior for Dems.
Re: campaigns should be shorter - Dems have gone to 5 Primary dates, they're pushing to stop NH from being 1st and stupid early. They moved the convention to mid-August, though it's been as late as early Sept.. These lengthy campaigns don't provide more information, just cost more and make everybody sick of candidates and ads.
posted by theora55 at 11:39 AM on August 20 [9 favorites]
Re: campaigns should be shorter - Dems have gone to 5 Primary dates, they're pushing to stop NH from being 1st and stupid early. They moved the convention to mid-August, though it's been as late as early Sept.. These lengthy campaigns don't provide more information, just cost more and make everybody sick of candidates and ads.
posted by theora55 at 11:39 AM on August 20 [9 favorites]
I am 100% team Biden Did (Nearly) Everything We Could Reasonably Ask. I am just also of the opinion that heading a campaign to fight the most dangerous push for fascism in three generations is a bigger ask than was reasonable for an 81 year-old who should be watching sunsets, kissing grandbabies, and petting dogs/cats all day long.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:42 AM on August 20 [22 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:42 AM on August 20 [22 favorites]
Fetterman is among a group of nominally "progressive" legislators like Richie Torres who have seemingly gotten AIPAC'd so hard into Israel Hawkishness that they don't even bother with the gushy "deaths on both sides"/"We See You We Hear You"/fake "working toward a ceasefire" stuff that the rest of mainstream democrats engage with to try and placate those large factions of their base that are anywhere to the left of "somewhat squeamish" about the genocide. He just straight up acts antagonistically in support of Israel towards his progressive base that helped get him elected, and to a bizarre and almost disproprotionate degree - even his own staff is speaking out against him.
I don't know if he's not there because of health reasons or because of those reasons, but it's definitely good that he's not there.
posted by windbox at 11:54 AM on August 20 [13 favorites]
I don't know if he's not there because of health reasons or because of those reasons, but it's definitely good that he's not there.
posted by windbox at 11:54 AM on August 20 [13 favorites]
OK, but what is it with Fetterman?
Pre-stroke, he was potentially viable Presidential candidate in the future, so he made decisions that balanced Pennsylvania electability with national electability. Post-stroke, his audio processing disorder pretty much ruled that option out, so he's making decisions that he thinks will keep him in his swing state Senate seat.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:54 AM on August 20 [1 favorite]
Pre-stroke, he was potentially viable Presidential candidate in the future, so he made decisions that balanced Pennsylvania electability with national electability. Post-stroke, his audio processing disorder pretty much ruled that option out, so he's making decisions that he thinks will keep him in his swing state Senate seat.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:54 AM on August 20 [1 favorite]
It's uncomfortable but it's also true that significant strokes, which his absolutely was, do have a tendency to cause personality changes. Since none of us know him personally it's impossible to say for sure whether he was simply acting a part pre-stroke and this is his true self revealed or whether the stroke changed him but it's not particularly unlikely.
posted by Justinian at 12:20 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 12:20 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
Billboard exclusive: Patti LaBelle to perform at DNC Night 2
posted by box at 12:37 PM on August 20 [7 favorites]
posted by box at 12:37 PM on August 20 [7 favorites]
Patti LaBelle to perform at DNC Night 2
Wherein "We're not going back . . . " gives way to the full slogan ". . . but we love our elders who show up as allies and icons and purveyors of sweet potato pies."
posted by kensington314 at 12:42 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
Wherein "We're not going back . . . " gives way to the full slogan ". . . but we love our elders who show up as allies and icons and purveyors of sweet potato pies."
posted by kensington314 at 12:42 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
I want her to sing 'New Attitude,' but I also want to see her bring out Michael McDonald to sing 'On My Own.'
Maybe they'll give her a medley.
posted by box at 12:53 PM on August 20
Maybe they'll give her a medley.
posted by box at 12:53 PM on August 20
OK, but what is it with Fetterman?
Probably something to do with statements like these:
“They started this,” Fetterman said, in reference to Hamas. “They have designed this to maximize the kinds of destruction and death. They hide behind places like hospitals and civilians and schools and refugee camps. That’s how it’s been designed.”
***
'I do find it confusing where the very left progressives in America don't seem to want to support really the only progressive nation in the region that really embraces the same kind of values I would expect we would want as a society,' Fetterman said.
***
"I fully agree with the White House—these “protests” are antisemitic, unconscionable, and dangerous.
Add some tiki torches and it’s Charlottesville for these Jewish students.
To @Columbia
President Minouche Shafik: do your job or resign so Columbia can find someone who will."
posted by oneirodynia at 12:59 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
Probably something to do with statements like these:
“They started this,” Fetterman said, in reference to Hamas. “They have designed this to maximize the kinds of destruction and death. They hide behind places like hospitals and civilians and schools and refugee camps. That’s how it’s been designed.”
***
'I do find it confusing where the very left progressives in America don't seem to want to support really the only progressive nation in the region that really embraces the same kind of values I would expect we would want as a society,' Fetterman said.
***
"I fully agree with the White House—these “protests” are antisemitic, unconscionable, and dangerous.
Add some tiki torches and it’s Charlottesville for these Jewish students.
To @Columbia
President Minouche Shafik: do your job or resign so Columbia can find someone who will."
posted by oneirodynia at 12:59 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
[Biden] left when it was clear he was set up for a humiliating defeat, amd the rest of the party was going to work to eject him, with or without allowing him the figleaf of a resignation.
Well, the last time Biden was in line to run for president and he stepped aside for someone else (which was unprecedented in modern times—the last time a former vice president, much less a sitting vice president, didn't run for president was—if you don't count Rockefeller who hadn't actually been elected VP, you have to go all the way back to Charles Curtis, I think)
—anyway, the last time Biden did that, Trump was elected. So maybe it wasn't just selfish stubbornness that he didn't immediately step aside the next time people started asking him not to run for president?
Biden has been doing the work of being President of the United States at a level of competency that most people in this country could not manage. I certainly couldn't. Trump sure as hell wasn't capable of it. It's gotta be really hard for someone like that to admit he's getting too old to keep doing it.
But Biden did the hard thing that Feinstein and many other politicians haven't been able to. Twice now, he's given up a legitimate shot at being President of the United States in ways that basically no other politician in my lifetime has. Whatever else good or bad he's done, he deserves to be honored for that, and it warmed my heart to hear that crowd yelling, "Thank you, Joe!"
posted by straight at 1:09 PM on August 20 [53 favorites]
Well, the last time Biden was in line to run for president and he stepped aside for someone else (which was unprecedented in modern times—the last time a former vice president, much less a sitting vice president, didn't run for president was—if you don't count Rockefeller who hadn't actually been elected VP, you have to go all the way back to Charles Curtis, I think)
—anyway, the last time Biden did that, Trump was elected. So maybe it wasn't just selfish stubbornness that he didn't immediately step aside the next time people started asking him not to run for president?
Biden has been doing the work of being President of the United States at a level of competency that most people in this country could not manage. I certainly couldn't. Trump sure as hell wasn't capable of it. It's gotta be really hard for someone like that to admit he's getting too old to keep doing it.
But Biden did the hard thing that Feinstein and many other politicians haven't been able to. Twice now, he's given up a legitimate shot at being President of the United States in ways that basically no other politician in my lifetime has. Whatever else good or bad he's done, he deserves to be honored for that, and it warmed my heart to hear that crowd yelling, "Thank you, Joe!"
posted by straight at 1:09 PM on August 20 [53 favorites]
It's uncomfortable but it's also true that significant strokes, which his absolutely was, do have a tendency to cause personality changes. Since none of us know him personally it's impossible to say for sure whether he was simply acting a part pre-stroke and this is his true self revealed or whether the stroke changed him but it's not particularly unlikely.
John Fetterman Basically Says Brain Damage & Almost Dying Made Him a Right-Wing Provocateur
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:14 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
John Fetterman Basically Says Brain Damage & Almost Dying Made Him a Right-Wing Provocateur
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:14 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
Common! I didn't know Common would be performing there, but duh, Chicago.
posted by cashman at 1:20 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 1:20 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
Not to change the subject, but I'm seeing the speeches today because I'm on another continent and I can't stop crying. Senator Warnock... Representative Jasmine Crockett...
I suspect it's good for my conjunctivitis. the shit gets watered out
posted by mumimor at 1:25 PM on August 20 [12 favorites]
I suspect it's good for my conjunctivitis. the shit gets watered out
posted by mumimor at 1:25 PM on August 20 [12 favorites]
Biden was amazing and made me tear up. He was also pretty clearly running out of energy after about 30 minutes, although he pulled through for a strong finish. I hope Covid didn't take too much out of him. This performance made me feel like he made the right decision.
posted by bq at 1:33 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
posted by bq at 1:33 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
Nothing in his life
Became him like the leaving it
posted by kirkaracha at 1:46 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
Became him like the leaving it
posted by kirkaracha at 1:46 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
Box I got the lowdown on what Patti is singing. Let me know if you want the link.
posted by cashman at 2:24 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 2:24 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
On a lighter note, candidate walkout songs all the way back to 1976 (WaPo gift link).
(Somewhat related: Wikipedia entry on "Musicians who oppose Donald Trump's use of their music")
posted by needled at 2:33 PM on August 20 [9 favorites]
(Somewhat related: Wikipedia entry on "Musicians who oppose Donald Trump's use of their music")
posted by needled at 2:33 PM on August 20 [9 favorites]
Apparently there are livestreams of the DNC (without color commentary) at Kamala Harris's Youtube, see also the Live section of https://www.youtube.com/@thedemocrats.
posted by spamandkimchi at 2:34 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
posted by spamandkimchi at 2:34 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
When Biden chose to run again after implying he would be a one-term president, he lost a lot of my respect. But when he chose to do the right thing and step aside, he filled me with a lot of relief that he could choose to make reasonable decisions on some things. He's been so terrible on certain issues now and historically, but he's done a lot of good work the last 4 years (although he's been pretty shit at publicizing and taking credit for that work). All politicians are a mixed bag at best, but Biden is a tough one to figure out. Comparatively, Bill Clinton is just a garden-variety douchebag who gave away party ideals for neoliberalism.
I'm sure it's a hard thing to pass up the nomination, especially after you feel like you've been pretty successful the first time through. But it was pretty clear he couldn't win, so I'm sure that made it easier.
posted by rikschell at 2:35 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
I'm sure it's a hard thing to pass up the nomination, especially after you feel like you've been pretty successful the first time through. But it was pretty clear he couldn't win, so I'm sure that made it easier.
posted by rikschell at 2:35 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
I haven't seen it posted yet, so here is Which Side Are You On
posted by mumimor at 2:49 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
posted by mumimor at 2:49 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
DNC night one ratings beat RNC by 21 percent despite late Biden speech
The initial, encouraging signs for the DNC come as Donald Trump is reportedly concerned Kamala Harris’s Thursday speech to close out the convention will outshine Trump’s RNC send-off.Trump Campaign Brazenly Steals Kamala Harris’ Beyoncé Anthem
Two sources close to the Trump campaign told Rolling Stone the former president has brought up the topic multiple times, though he’s sure to mention the “tremendous” viewership of his own nomination speech, which attracted a peak of 28.4 million viewers, according to Nielsen.
Not even a week after telling the crowd at a North Carolina rally that Kamala Harris was copying him, Donald Trump’s campaign spokesperson released a video of the former president deboarding his plane using Harris’ campaign song, Beyoncé’s “Freedom.”posted by kirkaracha at 3:19 PM on August 20 [9 favorites]
Trump Campaign Brazenly Steals Kamala Harris’ Beyoncé Anthem
I don't know why this aggrieves me so much but it does
posted by mumimor at 3:25 PM on August 20 [22 favorites]
I don't know why this aggrieves me so much but it does
posted by mumimor at 3:25 PM on August 20 [22 favorites]
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
posted by Reverend John at 3:30 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
posted by Reverend John at 3:30 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
I'm kind of pleased to think that maybe "Freedom" is now on that goof's weird Mar-a-Lago playlist that he uses to DJ all his stupid little golf club orations.
posted by kensington314 at 3:32 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
posted by kensington314 at 3:32 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
Trump Campaign Brazenly Steals Kamala Harris’ Beyoncé Anthem
I don't know why this aggrieves me so much but it does
Yes, they're being assholes just to be assholes, but...this has so much potential to be a self-own. Some of the base will be triggered just by the fact it's a Beyonce song; but some will get that earworm and find it catchy and then when Bee inevitably forces them to stop using it they will now inarguably have to associate the song they now can't get out of their heads with Kamala. Freedom!
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:33 PM on August 20 [7 favorites]
I don't know why this aggrieves me so much but it does
Yes, they're being assholes just to be assholes, but...this has so much potential to be a self-own. Some of the base will be triggered just by the fact it's a Beyonce song; but some will get that earworm and find it catchy and then when Bee inevitably forces them to stop using it they will now inarguably have to associate the song they now can't get out of their heads with Kamala. Freedom!
posted by OHenryPacey at 3:33 PM on August 20 [7 favorites]
Things have started early, if folks weren't aware. Patti Labelle is singing now, in a segment dedicated to folks who have passed away.
.
posted by cashman at 3:40 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
.
posted by cashman at 3:40 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
Surely you don't want to piss off Beyoncé? Nice one, you very bad and stupid people. Right after reposting that AI of Taylor Swift [CNN on YouTube], too. There may be some epic responses coming (I hope).
posted by Glinn at 3:42 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 3:42 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
Taylor Swift does not play around. I hope she sues his ass.
posted by cooker girl at 3:46 PM on August 20 [9 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 3:46 PM on August 20 [9 favorites]
I was curious so I just checked and "Freedom" is controlled by seven different publishing administrators in the US so that's seven potential parties that could sue in addition to the record label. But let's be honest that's not going to get Trump's campaign to stop using whatever songs they want. This isn't the first case of them using music they know they don't have the rights to.
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:46 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 3:46 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
When Biden chose to run again after implying he would be a one-term president, he lost a lot of my respect.
The idea that Biden pledged to be a one-term president was purely an invention/projection by various media commentators, rather than anything Biden ever said or even hinted at.
Certainly, a whole bunch of interviewers scolded and tut-tutted him for even having the presumption to run for president at all in 2020, given his alleged decrepitude. Some of them then floated the idea of his serving only one term, and tried to get him to agree with the idea. He never once did... notwithstanding many people's faulty memories of him having done so.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 3:47 PM on August 20 [13 favorites]
The idea that Biden pledged to be a one-term president was purely an invention/projection by various media commentators, rather than anything Biden ever said or even hinted at.
Certainly, a whole bunch of interviewers scolded and tut-tutted him for even having the presumption to run for president at all in 2020, given his alleged decrepitude. Some of them then floated the idea of his serving only one term, and tried to get him to agree with the idea. He never once did... notwithstanding many people's faulty memories of him having done so.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 3:47 PM on August 20 [13 favorites]
The idea that Biden pledged to be a one-term president was purely an invention/projection by various media commentators, rather than anything Biden ever said or even hinted at.
Absolutely untrue. He stated that he saw himself as a bridge to the next generation, and there was at least one article reporting that people from within his camp were signaling that one term was the plan.
posted by Gadarene at 3:54 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
Absolutely untrue. He stated that he saw himself as a bridge to the next generation, and there was at least one article reporting that people from within his camp were signaling that one term was the plan.
posted by Gadarene at 3:54 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
He never pledged it. But he certainly let people believe it when it was convenient to him.
posted by rikschell at 3:58 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 3:58 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
From Biden's recent BET interview, you can take it straight from the horse's mouth:
“You may remember Ed, I said I was going to be a transitional candidate, and I thought I would be able to move on from this and pass it on to somebody else,” the president said. “But I didn’t anticipate things getting so, so, so divided. And quite frankly, I think the only thing age brings is a little bit of wisdom.”
No, he didn't pledge it, but even he admits that it was his ideal intention - and his people certainly encouraged that impression in 2020.
posted by coffeecat at 3:58 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
“You may remember Ed, I said I was going to be a transitional candidate, and I thought I would be able to move on from this and pass it on to somebody else,” the president said. “But I didn’t anticipate things getting so, so, so divided. And quite frankly, I think the only thing age brings is a little bit of wisdom.”
No, he didn't pledge it, but even he admits that it was his ideal intention - and his people certainly encouraged that impression in 2020.
posted by coffeecat at 3:58 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
Who cares? He isn't running.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:59 PM on August 20 [24 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 3:59 PM on August 20 [24 favorites]
"I view myself as a transition candidate," Biden said at an online fundraiser in 2020, the New York Times reported.
Biden made a similar comment at a March 2020 campaign rally where he appeared alongside then-Sen. Kamala Harris, Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and Sen. Cory Booker.
"Look, I view myself as a bridge, not as anything else," Biden said, per CNN. "There's an entire generation of leaders you saw stand behind me. They are the future of this country."
The big picture: Biden never made an explicit public promise to serve just one term — though Politico reported that he had privately told advisers that he wouldn't run again.
.
posted by Gadarene at 4:00 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
Biden made a similar comment at a March 2020 campaign rally where he appeared alongside then-Sen. Kamala Harris, Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and Sen. Cory Booker.
"Look, I view myself as a bridge, not as anything else," Biden said, per CNN. "There's an entire generation of leaders you saw stand behind me. They are the future of this country."
The big picture: Biden never made an explicit public promise to serve just one term — though Politico reported that he had privately told advisers that he wouldn't run again.
.
posted by Gadarene at 4:00 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
[...]there are livestreams of the DNC (without color commentary) at Kamala Harris's Youtube
Oh, thanks! All the various livestreams cut to different cameras at different times, but whichever one I was watching on and off last night (which didn't have a rewind feature) must have been pulling from this official feed.
And so I can now link to this dixiecrat-looking conventiongoer who was evidently not pleased with all the union/worker talk, no sir. (I cued that up to 3:22:43, for context; he shows up around 10 seconds later at 3:23:00, in a very ornate diorama hat.)
posted by nobody at 4:02 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
Oh, thanks! All the various livestreams cut to different cameras at different times, but whichever one I was watching on and off last night (which didn't have a rewind feature) must have been pulling from this official feed.
And so I can now link to this dixiecrat-looking conventiongoer who was evidently not pleased with all the union/worker talk, no sir. (I cued that up to 3:22:43, for context; he shows up around 10 seconds later at 3:23:00, in a very ornate diorama hat.)
posted by nobody at 4:02 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
I don't know why this aggrieves me so much but it does
It's on brand with Melania Trump's "borrowing" some ideas from Michelle Obama.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:02 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
It's on brand with Melania Trump's "borrowing" some ideas from Michelle Obama.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:02 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
CSPAN is a gift. I love watching all this terrible dancing to the band funkin out "Tell Me Something Good". It's just so adorable cause when the spirit calls you to move, you just move. Old people, young people, all sorts of folks. And the band is just killin it
posted by cashman at 4:03 PM on August 20 [8 favorites]
posted by cashman at 4:03 PM on August 20 [8 favorites]
My preferred version of "Which Side Are You On" is by Billy Bragg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALCm5Peie_8
posted by wenestvedt at 4:04 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 4:04 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
Taylor Swift does not play around. I hope she sues his ass.
For $1. (Plus her attorneys fees, of course.) Followed quickly by a ringing endorsement for Kamala and Tim.
Her and Queen Bey both.
posted by susiswimmer at 4:12 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
For $1. (Plus her attorneys fees, of course.) Followed quickly by a ringing endorsement for Kamala and Tim.
Her and Queen Bey both.
posted by susiswimmer at 4:12 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
Pair "Which side are you on" with Billy Bragg's "There's Power in a Union"
posted by needled at 4:12 PM on August 20 [7 favorites]
posted by needled at 4:12 PM on August 20 [7 favorites]
DNC drinking game: take a drink every time a speaker says "My [grandmother or grandmother/father or other/mentor] always told me [some fake homespun wisdom clearly written by a comms team]."
Update: I am dead.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:23 PM on August 20 [19 favorites]
Update: I am dead.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 4:23 PM on August 20 [19 favorites]
I don't know about yall, but if I recalled all the stuff my elders told me, from "A hit dog will holler" to "If it aint broke, don't fix it" or "You can do anything you put your mind to", to "lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas" and other homespun wisdom about snakes or frogs or about a dozen other animals, we'd be here quite a while.
Anyway, the "Cowboy Kamala" lady is sending me rn!
posted by cashman at 4:44 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
Anyway, the "Cowboy Kamala" lady is sending me rn!
posted by cashman at 4:44 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
My grandmother always said that the pope shits in the woods. And why not? It's breezy, green, and overflowing with porn.
posted by kaibutsu at 4:58 PM on August 20 [8 favorites]
posted by kaibutsu at 4:58 PM on August 20 [8 favorites]
This roll-call DJ is every club DJ ever. I’m loving the idea, but he’s gotta tone it down so they can hear each other talk.
posted by armeowda at 4:59 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
posted by armeowda at 4:59 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
Did the RNC roll call have this kind of fun party vibe?
posted by needled at 5:03 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
posted by needled at 5:03 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
Lil jon!
posted by cashman at 5:05 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
posted by cashman at 5:05 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
Did the RNC roll call have this kind of fun party vibe?
I bet they didn't have Lil Jon doing the intro for Georgia!
posted by May Kasahara at 5:05 PM on August 20 [10 favorites]
I bet they didn't have Lil Jon doing the intro for Georgia!
posted by May Kasahara at 5:05 PM on August 20 [10 favorites]
Did the RNC roll call have this kind of fun party vibe?
Absolutely? If having someone say "pursuant to the announcement of the delegation and the rules and procedures of this convention, {$state_name} {$state_votes} for Donald J. Trump" every time is fun.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:08 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
Absolutely? If having someone say "pursuant to the announcement of the delegation and the rules and procedures of this convention, {$state_name} {$state_votes} for Donald J. Trump" every time is fun.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:08 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
OK, I’m officially 100% won-over. Can we have a DJ for everything in US politics from now on?
posted by armeowda at 5:14 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
posted by armeowda at 5:14 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
Iowa has a corncob hat dude!
posted by needled at 5:14 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
posted by needled at 5:14 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
Grisham reveals what Trump is like when cameras are off
Pretty brave. The number of Republican speakers is just crazy.
posted by Glinn at 5:22 PM on August 20 [12 favorites]
Pretty brave. The number of Republican speakers is just crazy.
posted by Glinn at 5:22 PM on August 20 [12 favorites]
In 2020, when all of this was happening remotely, the roll call happened as a series of different hype videos set in each delegation's home turf. While, that was a great moment for some hilarious stunting, doing this in person with a DJ doing theme songs for each delegation is undeniably an upgrade.
posted by bl1nk at 5:30 PM on August 20 [10 favorites]
posted by bl1nk at 5:30 PM on August 20 [10 favorites]
Hey DJ: right artist, wrong song for Jersey!
(Hi Gov. Phil!)
posted by May Kasahara at 5:32 PM on August 20
(Hi Gov. Phil!)
posted by May Kasahara at 5:32 PM on August 20
(Is it weird Kamala and Tim aren't there?)
They're doing a rally / watch party in a different arena.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:32 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
They're doing a rally / watch party in a different arena.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:32 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
Lil Jon has now been in a Super Bowl halftime show, appeared at the DNC, and released not one but two albums of guided meditations all within a single year. That's a pretty odd year for anyone.
posted by downtohisturtles at 5:34 PM on August 20 [23 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 5:34 PM on August 20 [23 favorites]
Why are some states passing or abstaining?
Theatrics. The candidates' home states pass because they get the honor of either going last (or putting them over 50%, whatever makes sense depending on the year).
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:40 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
Theatrics. The candidates' home states pass because they get the honor of either going last (or putting them over 50%, whatever makes sense depending on the year).
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 5:40 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
Internet seems to be loving the roll call
posted by girlmightlive at 5:56 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
posted by girlmightlive at 5:56 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
West Virginia wins.
posted by May Kasahara at 6:04 PM on August 20
posted by May Kasahara at 6:04 PM on August 20
This is such a GenX soundtrack.
(I'm not complaining!)
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 6:08 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
(I'm not complaining!)
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 6:08 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
Harris and Walz taking over the convention center where the RNC was weeks earlier and jamming the place to the rafters is perfect optics.
posted by Inkslinger at 6:11 PM on August 20 [36 favorites]
posted by Inkslinger at 6:11 PM on August 20 [36 favorites]
I wonder if the people speaking know what their music is going to be. Like, did Newsom know he was going to give his speech over Kendrick?
posted by mhum at 6:11 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
posted by mhum at 6:11 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
I'm sorry has she filled not one but TWO stadiums at once?
posted by greenland at 6:12 PM on August 20 [39 favorites]
posted by greenland at 6:12 PM on August 20 [39 favorites]
Haha! Of course, Kamala joins live from Milwaukee. Nice! Short, but nice.
posted by Glinn at 6:12 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 6:12 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
I'm sorry has she filled not one but TWO stadiums at once?
Yep, and the other one is where they held the RNC. Trump posted a screencap from the roll call, so we know he's out there hate-watching.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 6:15 PM on August 20 [17 favorites]
Yep, and the other one is where they held the RNC. Trump posted a screencap from the roll call, so we know he's out there hate-watching.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 6:15 PM on August 20 [17 favorites]
Chuck Schumer is right. That was an excellent roll call.
posted by mazola at 6:18 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
posted by mazola at 6:18 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
Like, did Newsom know he was going to give his speech over Kendrick?
Wasn't Newsom speaking over Tupac?
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 6:19 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
Wasn't Newsom speaking over Tupac?
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 6:19 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
Couple different artists. First one was California Love, 2Pac featuring Dre.
posted by susiswimmer at 6:27 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
posted by susiswimmer at 6:27 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
In 2020, when all of this was happening remotely, the roll call happened as a series of different hype videos set in each delegation's home turf. While, that was a great moment for some hilarious stunting, doing this in person with a DJ doing theme songs for each delegation is undeniably an upgrade.
I approve of the gradual process by which the Democratic National Convention is turning into the Eurovision Song Contest. I assume the state with the best roll-call gets to host next year.
posted by jackbishop at 6:30 PM on August 20 [49 favorites]
I approve of the gradual process by which the Democratic National Convention is turning into the Eurovision Song Contest. I assume the state with the best roll-call gets to host next year.
posted by jackbishop at 6:30 PM on August 20 [49 favorites]
Sanders is a very good communicator.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 6:36 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 6:36 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
I assume the state with the best roll-call gets to host next year.
Atlanta bid on the 2024, and if we’re going by best roll call, clearly we get it in 2028.
posted by susiswimmer at 6:48 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
Atlanta bid on the 2024, and if we’re going by best roll call, clearly we get it in 2028.
posted by susiswimmer at 6:48 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
Loving this! Cheers from a hopeful, happy and relieved Canadian.
(OMG Samwise Gamgee!)
posted by omegajuice at 6:49 PM on August 20 [7 favorites]
(OMG Samwise Gamgee!)
posted by omegajuice at 6:49 PM on August 20 [7 favorites]
Sanders was great, Pritzker was fine, but I kinda wish that they had not scheduled a billionaire in politics and a former credit card company CEO right after Bernie Sanders saying we need to get billionaires out of politics.
posted by Jeanne at 6:51 PM on August 20 [33 favorites]
posted by Jeanne at 6:51 PM on August 20 [33 favorites]
Did anybody else watching on CNN just get a very long couch commercial?? They seemed to really get into the description of the cushions…
posted by rpfields at 6:57 PM on August 20 [7 favorites]
posted by rpfields at 6:57 PM on August 20 [7 favorites]
Fun to see Sean Astin!
Is he an Indianan...Indianaite....guy-from-next to-Illinois, or was that purely a "Rudy" callback?
posted by wenestvedt at 7:06 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
Is he an Indianan...Indianaite....guy-from-next to-Illinois, or was that purely a "Rudy" callback?
posted by wenestvedt at 7:06 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
wenestvedt: They are called "Hoosiers" and Sean Astin is not one, although his wife was Miss Teen Indiana in 1984
posted by jordemort at 7:10 PM on August 20 [8 favorites]
posted by jordemort at 7:10 PM on August 20 [8 favorites]
Via Lawyers Guns Money thread.
posted by spamandkimchi at 7:10 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
It’s fun trying to figure out the music choices for each state.*Dropkick Murphy's-Shipping up to Boston
Alabama- sweet home Alabama-obvious
Alaska-Happy by Pharrell-?
Arizona-Edge of Seventeen-Stevie Nicks’ home state
Arkansas-Don’t Stop-Bill Clinton’s Home State and campaign theme
Colorado-September by EW,&F-?
Connecticut-Signed Sealed Delivered-Something to do with being the constitutions state
Florida-I won’t back down-Tom Petty’s home state
Georgia-Turn Down For What-Lil Jon’s home State
Hawaii-24 Karat Magic-Bruno Mars’s Home State
Idaho-?
Illinois-Sirius-?
Indiana-Don’t Stop Till You Get Enough-Michael Jackson’s home state
Iowa-Celebration-it’s CORNY to play this song at an event like this?
Kansas-Carry On Wayward Son-Obvious
Kentucky-?
Louisiana-Knock You Down?
Maine-Shut Up And Dance-?
Maryland-Respect-?
Massachusetts-That Irish song-Irish people in Boston*
Michigan-Lose Yourself-Eminem’s home state
Minnesota-Kiss-prince’s home state
Mississippi-?
Missouri-?
Montana-American Woman-Montana is near Canada?
posted by spamandkimchi at 7:10 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
Ooh this trio of songs.
Oregon's was Modest Mouse "Float On"posted by spamandkimchi at 7:12 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
Pennsylvania-Motownphilly-Boyz II Men’s home state and something else
Puerto Rico-Despacito-Luis Fonsi’s home territory
Idaho chose the B-52s’ “Private Idaho”!
posted by armeowda at 7:13 PM on August 20 [12 favorites]
posted by armeowda at 7:13 PM on August 20 [12 favorites]
And “Sirius” (IL) is arguably the only jock jam credited to the nerdlicious Alan Parsons Project, as the theme song of the Chicago Bulls.
posted by armeowda at 7:16 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
posted by armeowda at 7:16 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
The full list of each state and territory's walk out songs.
posted by spamandkimchi at 7:19 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
posted by spamandkimchi at 7:19 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
Sanders also directly mentioned Gaza and called for an immediate ceasefire. Still performative without actual policy change, but good for him.
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:22 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:22 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
Lame that Idaho chose a band from Georgia over homegrown heroes Built to Spill, though the song titles might have presented some difficulties (Distopian Dream Girl, Carry the Zero, Goin’ Against Your Mind, Nowhere Nothin’ Fuckup…)
posted by Atom Eyes at 7:22 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 7:22 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
Northern Mariana Islands - Ain't No Mountain High Enough
Okay now this is fucking funny.
posted by stet at 7:23 PM on August 20 [14 favorites]
Okay now this is fucking funny.
posted by stet at 7:23 PM on August 20 [14 favorites]
I'm surprising myself with how emotional I am to see a stepchild/step parent relationship honored and supported on the national stage, given my own relationship with a step-parent. Sometimes, you don't know how much representation matters until you get it.
posted by meese at 7:27 PM on August 20 [24 favorites]
posted by meese at 7:27 PM on August 20 [24 favorites]
Was Emhoff’s joke about his grandma’s “plastic-covered couches” a dig at Vance, or has 2024 just ruined the word “couch” forever?
posted by armeowda at 7:36 PM on August 20 [8 favorites]
posted by armeowda at 7:36 PM on August 20 [8 favorites]
Ha, I hadn't even thought about Vance. To me it was just an authentic old school Brooklyn reference. I've sat on one of those plastic-covered Brooklyn couches (not Doug Emhoff's grandma's couch -- it belonged to our elderly Italian neighbors, who later became our landlords, in Williamsburg).
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:40 PM on August 20 [10 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:40 PM on August 20 [10 favorites]
Michelle comin out to Sir Duke, LFG!
posted by cashman at 7:41 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:41 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
Seconding the childhood-remembrance angle: As somebody of Emhoff's generation, who grew up in Brooklyn, I'm betting he was just remembering his childhood - plastic-covered couches at your grandparents were, in fact, a part of Jewish life back then.
posted by adamg at 7:42 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
posted by adamg at 7:42 PM on August 20 [11 favorites]
I get that "first gentleman" is the most obvious choice for title of the president's husband, but I'd like to put forth the suggestion that it be "Doug." E.g., "the President and the Doug will be traveling to Mexico today," "Doug Robert Jones, married to President Melissa Jones, gave a speech today."
posted by meese at 7:42 PM on August 20 [13 favorites]
posted by meese at 7:42 PM on August 20 [13 favorites]
Couch-wise, the plastic covered couches is a black thing too. I don't think I ever sat on my friend's actual couch growing up. It's been joked about in movies like "Don't Be a Menace..." as well.
posted by cashman at 7:43 PM on August 20 [10 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:43 PM on August 20 [10 favorites]
I'm a little obsessed with Michelle Obama's outfit? Like...that's what a Jedi puts on when they want you to KNOW they're about to end your whole world.
posted by greenland at 7:45 PM on August 20 [15 favorites]
posted by greenland at 7:45 PM on August 20 [15 favorites]
When is a couch just a couch?
posted by gingerbeer at 7:45 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
posted by gingerbeer at 7:45 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
Michelle is killing it.
posted by Windopaene at 7:46 PM on August 20 [9 favorites]
posted by Windopaene at 7:46 PM on August 20 [9 favorites]
She's always been a good speaker, but I feel like this may be one of her best speeches ever.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:48 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:48 PM on August 20 [5 favorites]
DAMN. She just eviscerated Trump without ever saying his name.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:51 PM on August 20 [9 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:51 PM on August 20 [9 favorites]
Holy shit. This is the speech of a brilliant, wise woman who has been choking on righteous indignation for the past eight years.
... For at least the last eight years.
posted by meese at 7:52 PM on August 20 [17 favorites]
... For at least the last eight years.
posted by meese at 7:52 PM on August 20 [17 favorites]
I loved that line about the affirmative action of generational wealth
posted by girlmightlive at 7:52 PM on August 20 [21 favorites]
posted by girlmightlive at 7:52 PM on August 20 [21 favorites]
When they go low, we go -- okay, never mind, I'm going to eviscerate this guy.
posted by Jeanne at 7:53 PM on August 20 [10 favorites]
posted by Jeanne at 7:53 PM on August 20 [10 favorites]
OK, and now she's called him out by name.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:53 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:53 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
Michelle Obama is an absolutely insanely good public speaker. Between this and Barack's 2004 "skinny kid with a funny name" speech, the Obamas likely have the two greatest DNC speeches ever.
posted by mhum at 7:54 PM on August 20 [13 favorites]
posted by mhum at 7:54 PM on August 20 [13 favorites]
I loved that line about the affirmative action of generational wealth
Me too. And I laughed out loud at the line about the escalator.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:56 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
Me too. And I laughed out loud at the line about the escalator.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:56 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
And going after the circular firing squad as well...
posted by Windopaene at 7:57 PM on August 20 [14 favorites]
posted by Windopaene at 7:57 PM on August 20 [14 favorites]
So many needlepoint-worthy lines in Michelle Obama's speech.
posted by rpfields at 8:03 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
posted by rpfields at 8:03 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
I'm a little obsessed with Michelle Obama's outfit? Like...that's what a Jedi puts on when they want you to KNOW they're about to end your whole world.Michelle's mom (whom she paid tribute to) passed away 2.5 months ago and I took the dress as both reflecting her still being in mourning; but also being ready to get to work.
posted by bl1nk at 8:08 PM on August 20 [13 favorites]
Barak knifes TFG about "sizes" (as did Michelle about "going small")
posted by Windopaene at 8:11 PM on August 20 [9 favorites]
posted by Windopaene at 8:11 PM on August 20 [9 favorites]
That little gesture Obama made when he mentioned Trump's obsession about crowd sizes... *chef's kiss*
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:12 PM on August 20 [25 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:12 PM on August 20 [25 favorites]
Barack is still pretty good, but Michelle did better so far.
I have never seen more crowd shots of convention-goers crying...
posted by Windopaene at 8:15 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
I have never seen more crowd shots of convention-goers crying...
posted by Windopaene at 8:15 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
Do not boo. Vote.
-Barack Obama August 20, 2024
posted by susiswimmer at 8:17 PM on August 20 [19 favorites]
-Barack Obama August 20, 2024
posted by susiswimmer at 8:17 PM on August 20 [19 favorites]
"We have seen that movie before, and we all know the sequel is usually worse."
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:18 PM on August 20 [8 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:18 PM on August 20 [8 favorites]
In other words, Kamala Harris won't be focused on HER problems, she'll be focused on YOURS. - B. Obama. Pres. Obama also loves Walz, saying he's the kind of guy who *should* be in politics.
Lol since he's noticed since it's become popular, "they don't call it Obamacare no more."
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:21 PM on August 20 [10 favorites]
Lol since he's noticed since it's become popular, "they don't call it Obamacare no more."
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:21 PM on August 20 [10 favorites]
Just saw a woman wearing a dead shirt. :)
Barack is bringing it home though. He still has it.
posted by Windopaene at 8:22 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
Barack is bringing it home though. He still has it.
posted by Windopaene at 8:22 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
I'm sensing Obama is deeply angry about some of the ideas he held that held him back from doing more in his 8 years... particularly in his line about better wages.
posted by JoeXIII007 at 8:24 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
posted by JoeXIII007 at 8:24 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
NBC coverage: "Tim’s the kind of person who should be in politics — somebody who was born in a small town, served his country, taught kids, coached football and took care of his neighbors," [B. Obama] said. "He knows who he is and what’s important. You can tell those flannel shirts he wears don’t come from some consultant, they come from his closet, and they’ve been through some stuff."
In the stands, Walz's wife, Gwen, was seen mouthing "so true."
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:25 PM on August 20 [27 favorites]
In the stands, Walz's wife, Gwen, was seen mouthing "so true."
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:25 PM on August 20 [27 favorites]
Obama is going centrist now.
posted by perhapses at 8:26 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
posted by perhapses at 8:26 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
I don't think what he's saying is centrist.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:29 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:29 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
Yeah, "Our fellow citizen deserve the same grace we hope they'll extend to us." But the pivot to "The world is watching" to see if we can build a democracy this large and diverse, helps.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:30 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:30 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
"The vast majority of us do not want to live in a country that is bitter and divided." Oh, now he's talking about his love for his mother-in-law.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:32 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:32 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, right outside the DNC:
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:33 PM on August 20 [10 favorites]
Activists arrested protesting Israel’s war on Gaza outside the Democratic National Convention on Monday have reported injuries from police violence that required hospitalization and a lack of access to attorneys or medication while in custody, according to legal observers and attorneys representing demonstrators.(from The Intercept)
…
While Snelling praised his officers for having “showed great restraint,” two protesters were hospitalized due to injuries from arrests. In both cases, officers used force on protesters, said Matthew McLoughlin, who coordinates defense attorneys with the National Lawyers Guild.
A third demonstrator was hospitalized after suffering a panic attack during an arrest. When officers brought her back to jail, McLoughlin said she was cuffed to a wall by her ankles with tight restraints, causing severe swelling to her joints. Attorneys had to intervene and request officers loosen the cuffs.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:33 PM on August 20 [10 favorites]
I just want to squee for a second about my girl Tish James being there among the NY State delegates, standing behind fellow Brooklyn's-own Spike Leeeeeeeeeee
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:34 PM on August 20 [8 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:34 PM on August 20 [8 favorites]
This theme of Barack's around "we need to give each other grace, and be more willing to listen to each other" has been his Big Idea this year. A couple of years back, it's been Misinformation. He centers on it in the speeches that he's been giving and overall it's different facets around his belief that we're at our best when we compromise, set aside egos and work together; and that a grand obstacle to that are the forces of partisanship and division.
posted by bl1nk at 8:35 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
posted by bl1nk at 8:35 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
Oh, and:
"Who's going to tell [Trump] that job he’s seeking might just be one of those 'black jobs'?” Michelle Obama, 8/20/24
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:36 PM on August 20 [37 favorites]
"Who's going to tell [Trump] that job he’s seeking might just be one of those 'black jobs'?” Michelle Obama, 8/20/24
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:36 PM on August 20 [37 favorites]
Well that was sane!
posted by mazola at 8:39 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
posted by mazola at 8:39 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
The Independent reported protestors set fire to an American flag as Michelle Obama gave her speech.
NBC talking heads: the Obamas worked on their speeches together, as bookends
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:41 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
NBC talking heads: the Obamas worked on their speeches together, as bookends
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:41 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
The Independent reported protestors set fire to an American flag as Michelle Obama gave her speech.
Good for them!
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:42 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
Good for them!
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:42 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
Some items from NZ ex-PM Jacinda Arderns brief session at the DNC - Eight key quotes from Jacinda Ardern at the Democratic National Convention.
posted by phigmov at 8:47 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
posted by phigmov at 8:47 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
The Independent reported protestors set fire to an American flag as Michelle Obama gave her speech.
Good for them!
Yeah, surely that will capture the hearts and minds of the American public. </s>
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:48 PM on August 20 [31 favorites]
Good for them!
Yeah, surely that will capture the hearts and minds of the American public. </s>
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:48 PM on August 20 [31 favorites]
Another way to interpret Obama's message: "we can't tell potential trump voters that they're evil, if we want to actually win this election. Be compassionate and talk to them like human beings, for democracy's sake."
posted by meese at 8:51 PM on August 20 [12 favorites]
posted by meese at 8:51 PM on August 20 [12 favorites]
Both Obamas had really good speeches. I think this convention is trying to reach more to the undecided than the RNC did.
posted by netowl at 8:52 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
posted by netowl at 8:52 PM on August 20 [3 favorites]
Both Sen. Duckworth and Mrs. Obama mentioned using reproductive technology to build their families in their speeches. Gwen Walz is talking more about it, too: “Our fertility journey was an incredibly personal and difficult experience,” she shares with Glamour, going into depth for the first time about her path to parenthood. “Like so many who have experienced these challenges, we kept it largely to ourselves at the time.”
Instead, it was a neighbor—a nurse—who would come around to help “with the shots I needed as part of the IUI process.” A teacher, Walz would “rush home from school,” her neighbor would come over, “and she would give me the shots to ensure we stayed on track.”
The Glamour article is "Tim Walz’s Kids Have Already Played a Major Role in His Politics," where I learned that their daughter Hope Walz is a social worker, and that she may have pitched the "if he's willing to get off the couch" joke that Walz used.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:54 PM on August 20 [19 favorites]
Instead, it was a neighbor—a nurse—who would come around to help “with the shots I needed as part of the IUI process.” A teacher, Walz would “rush home from school,” her neighbor would come over, “and she would give me the shots to ensure we stayed on track.”
The Glamour article is "Tim Walz’s Kids Have Already Played a Major Role in His Politics," where I learned that their daughter Hope Walz is a social worker, and that she may have pitched the "if he's willing to get off the couch" joke that Walz used.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:54 PM on August 20 [19 favorites]
It’s funny, Republicans say Kamala is too extreme, but then what’s moderate about deporting 15 million people?
posted by girlmightlive at 8:56 PM on August 20 [7 favorites]
posted by girlmightlive at 8:56 PM on August 20 [7 favorites]
Yeah, surely that will capture the hearts and minds of the American public.
I'd like to imagine it might but not in the way and for whom they'd hope: they've set up a stark and obvious contrast between the folks burning flags outside the convention and the message being delivered simultaneously by the Obamas inside. By explicitly placing themselves in opposition to that message, they've offered a choice to the people seeing the juxtaposition and I don't know that a lot of folks will choose the people around the fire. Seems like a bit of a self-own, to be frank.
posted by multics at 9:04 PM on August 20 [8 favorites]
I'd like to imagine it might but not in the way and for whom they'd hope: they've set up a stark and obvious contrast between the folks burning flags outside the convention and the message being delivered simultaneously by the Obamas inside. By explicitly placing themselves in opposition to that message, they've offered a choice to the people seeing the juxtaposition and I don't know that a lot of folks will choose the people around the fire. Seems like a bit of a self-own, to be frank.
posted by multics at 9:04 PM on August 20 [8 favorites]
Sure! Lots of people love living in Omelas.
(Also, the point of protest isn't to "win hearts and minds". It's to make people uncomfortable.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:05 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
(Also, the point of protest isn't to "win hearts and minds". It's to make people uncomfortable.)
posted by adrienneleigh at 9:05 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
The Obamas collaborated on their speeches; Michelle didn't mention Joe, and Barack:
Obama talked tonight about how it's been 16 years since he accepted the party's nomination for president.
"Looking back, I can say without question, that my first big decision as your nominee turned out to be one of my best, and that was asking Joe Biden to serve by my side as vice president," he said.
"We became brothers. And as we worked together for eight, sometimes tough years, what I came to admire most about Joe wasn't just his smarts, his experience. ... It was his empathy and his decency and his hard-earned resilience, his unshakable belief that everyone in this country deserves a fair shot," Obama said.
The former president praised Biden's record and his administration's accomplishments over the last three and a half years.
"History will remember Joe Biden as an outstanding president who defended democracy at a moment of great danger, and I am proud to call him my president, but I am even prouder to call him my friend," Obama said. (NBC)
Obama, at age 63, is the youngest living former president.
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:05 PM on August 20 [9 favorites]
Obama talked tonight about how it's been 16 years since he accepted the party's nomination for president.
"Looking back, I can say without question, that my first big decision as your nominee turned out to be one of my best, and that was asking Joe Biden to serve by my side as vice president," he said.
"We became brothers. And as we worked together for eight, sometimes tough years, what I came to admire most about Joe wasn't just his smarts, his experience. ... It was his empathy and his decency and his hard-earned resilience, his unshakable belief that everyone in this country deserves a fair shot," Obama said.
The former president praised Biden's record and his administration's accomplishments over the last three and a half years.
"History will remember Joe Biden as an outstanding president who defended democracy at a moment of great danger, and I am proud to call him my president, but I am even prouder to call him my friend," Obama said. (NBC)
Obama, at age 63, is the youngest living former president.
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:05 PM on August 20 [9 favorites]
Separation of church and state except official benediction? Huh.
posted by Glinn at 9:13 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
posted by Glinn at 9:13 PM on August 20 [1 favorite]
I mean, the Democratic Party is not the state.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:25 PM on August 20 [9 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:25 PM on August 20 [9 favorites]
"We have seen that movie before, and we all know the sequel is usually worse."
I was watching NBC's coverage and right after Obama said this line the camera cut to actor Don Cheadle sitting somewhere in the auditorium. Cheadle knew the camera on him and looked straight at it. Does anyone here know what the significance of that moment might have been?
posted by fuse theorem at 9:25 PM on August 20
I was watching NBC's coverage and right after Obama said this line the camera cut to actor Don Cheadle sitting somewhere in the auditorium. Cheadle knew the camera on him and looked straight at it. Does anyone here know what the significance of that moment might have been?
posted by fuse theorem at 9:25 PM on August 20
Ocean's 12?
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:29 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:29 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
Iron Man 2?
posted by jordemort at 9:31 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
posted by jordemort at 9:31 PM on August 20 [6 favorites]
In 2024 Platform, Democrats Lurch Right on Policing and Immigration
(Schuyler Mitchell for TRUTHOUT)
(Schuyler Mitchell for TRUTHOUT)
It is now abundantly clear that these modest proposals — already limited in scope, lagging behind the demands of many activists and the party’s left flank — were little more than political lip service. In fact, the 2020 Democratic Party platform could only look downright radical when placed next to this year’s document.posted by adrienneleigh at 9:33 PM on August 20 [12 favorites]
The shift in priorities is clear from the jump: criminal legal reform no longer has its own chapter. The framing is instead around the more general task of “Protecting Communities.” There is no mention of ending either “mass incarceration” or “police brutality.”
Under the bullet point “Policing & Public Safety,” the Democrats are quick to dispel any illusions that the party might be even mildly critical of police, starting off the section by applauding officers for their sacrifices. The platform emphasizes that President Biden has, in fact, been working to increase the number of police officers on the street. Lest we were still unclear about where the party stands, the platform states outright: “We need to fund the police, not defund the police.”
This language is clearly an attempt to shake the image, painted by the GOP, that Democrats are “soft on crime.” Donald Trump and MAGA Republicans have repeatedly claimed that calls to “defund the police,” which became a policy demand of the 2020 Black Lives Matter protests, have led to a scourge of violent crime sweeping the nation. This is patently false. Few cities followed through on initial proposals to cut police spending, and in fact, many cities and counties actually increased funding to their police departments. Following a pandemic-era bump, violent crime rates are dropping across the country. And, of course, mainstream Democrats never supported the “defund” movement to begin with — let alone the abolitionist politics the movement came from.
I mean, the Democratic Party is not the state.
... and benedictions are a common (albeit not uncontroversial) feature of legislative sessions, including at the federal level.
posted by multics at 9:37 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
... and benedictions are a common (albeit not uncontroversial) feature of legislative sessions, including at the federal level.
posted by multics at 9:37 PM on August 20 [4 favorites]
(Also, the point of protest isn't to "win hearts and minds". It's to make people uncomfortable.)
Protests can be carried out for all sorts of reasons, and with all sorts of aims.
But I've noticed that effective protests usually generate some kind of sympathy in onlookers.
That's not always easy to do. It's definitely harder than simply making people uncomfortable.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 10:17 PM on August 20 [19 favorites]
Protests can be carried out for all sorts of reasons, and with all sorts of aims.
But I've noticed that effective protests usually generate some kind of sympathy in onlookers.
That's not always easy to do. It's definitely harder than simply making people uncomfortable.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 10:17 PM on August 20 [19 favorites]
the other one is where they held the RNC
im in ur base killin ur d00dz
posted by kirkaracha at 10:28 PM on August 20 [41 favorites]
im in ur base killin ur d00dz
posted by kirkaracha at 10:28 PM on August 20 [41 favorites]
I took the dress as both reflecting her still being in mourning; but also being ready to get to work
Also, I am a fucking warrior.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:29 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
Also, I am a fucking warrior.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:29 PM on August 20 [2 favorites]
Evidently the press is grumpy about the access and facilities the DNC has given them:
The Democratic National Convention — off to a smooth start by all outward metrics — has also featured logistical headaches, like long lines, bad internet connections, expensive price tags, and limited access to the floor, leaving many of the 15,000 credentialed media grumbling, and their representatives openly battling convention organizers. ...posted by Artifice_Eternity at 10:41 PM on August 20 [15 favorites]
On the first day of the Republican National Convention in July — a smoothly operated event in Milwaukee that offered journalists an unexpected welcome — the DNC sent an email to the committee laying out what access was going to look like, including the number of credentialed media. [Press representatives were] horrified that the number of press stands were significantly lower than those provided for previous conventions, including the RNC earlier this year. The daily press gallery organizations were only given 35 seats, as well as 90 unassigned stadium seats with table tops. ...
Democratic National Convention officials emphasized that the event is no cost to press, and that there is plenty of workspace for journalists in areas adjacent to the arena. They also noted that the number of credentials are in line with past conventions. ...
Is there any lamer story than the media whining about access? No description of waiting in lines or searching for a spot on the ground to file a story is as annoying as it feels to do those things. As someone who was at both, the logistical experience of the RNC was unquestionably smoother than its Democratic counterpart. But the convention is a television event, and millions of Americans are going to see the convention and have no idea a few extra journalists were frustrated with the accommodations.
But beneath the press access grumbling is a bigger, more interesting story about the changing media landscape and relationship between the press and the Democratic party.
The old school news media that Democrats used to need to get their message out is no longer their only option. The DNC has made a serious, deliberate effort to make room for hundreds of content creators and influencers. These newcomers have gotten coveted passes to the convention floor and workspace in the DNC’s new creator lounge and creator platform.
The friction also illustrates the ongoing tension between the mainstream press and some parts of the Democratic Party that have played out over the course of this election. The Biden White House and his former campaign (essentially the same staff as the current Harris campaign) were deeply critical of the New York Times and other major nonpartisan media organizations over their coverage of the president, his mental faculties, and of Donald Trump, who the campaign believed got unfairly positive coverage from mainstream press. The DNC and its chair Jaime Harrison were among many institutional Democrats who criticized the news media’s coverage of Joe Biden following the debate. It’s not coincidental that the organization wouldn’t feel the need to completely bend over backwards to press demands for greater access.
The same press that hounded Joe Biden about his age, and reports more on the horse race than any issues, that has paid little attention to the orange felon's constant lies, and now his obvious mental decline? The DNC video stream is excellent. Ni talking heads, no punditry, no filling time with mindless chatter. I love just seeing the event, and I can pause it, speed it, etc.
The NYtimes would only talk about Biden's age, then Biden leaves the race and fucking Maureen Dowd calls it a coup. FFS. They are increasingly wretched,
posted by theora55 at 11:02 PM on August 20 [33 favorites]
The NYtimes would only talk about Biden's age, then Biden leaves the race and fucking Maureen Dowd calls it a coup. FFS. They are increasingly wretched,
posted by theora55 at 11:02 PM on August 20 [33 favorites]
The NYtimes would only talk about Biden's age, then Biden leaves the race and fucking Maureen Dowd calls it a coup. FFS. They are increasingly wretched,
Even worse: Dowd her very own fucking self wrote a column only a month ago (which I will not link to) berating Biden for not leaving, titled "Lord Almighty, Joe, Let It Go!"
In it, she opined: "Really, what the Democrats need is a thrilling open convention, rather than a coronation."
You know who needs to be couped? Terminally cynical NYT op-ed page lifers like her.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 11:14 PM on August 20 [31 favorites]
Even worse: Dowd her very own fucking self wrote a column only a month ago (which I will not link to) berating Biden for not leaving, titled "Lord Almighty, Joe, Let It Go!"
In it, she opined: "Really, what the Democrats need is a thrilling open convention, rather than a coronation."
You know who needs to be couped? Terminally cynical NYT op-ed page lifers like her.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 11:14 PM on August 20 [31 favorites]
"the logistical experience of the RNC was unquestionably smoother than its Democratic counterpart"
far fewer people to maneuver at the RNC
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:29 PM on August 20 [14 favorites]
far fewer people to maneuver at the RNC
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:29 PM on August 20 [14 favorites]
"Who's going to tell [Trump] that job he’s seeking might just be one of those 'black jobs'?” Michelle Obama, 8/20/24
A great moment when she tilted her head at the end of that sentence, but I vomited in my mouth when the NYTimes put their logo above her head when she did.
It is pretty transparently gross when the media plays the victim of the presidency, one day, and then tries to portray itself as the hero and champion of the family of a former president, the next.
Either pick a side or don't, or just come out and openly support Trump, but don't use cute editing tricks to make yourselves out to be heroes for jumping ship and supporting Dems when you've been attacking them for fucking forever. JFC.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:02 AM on August 21 [6 favorites]
A great moment when she tilted her head at the end of that sentence, but I vomited in my mouth when the NYTimes put their logo above her head when she did.
It is pretty transparently gross when the media plays the victim of the presidency, one day, and then tries to portray itself as the hero and champion of the family of a former president, the next.
Either pick a side or don't, or just come out and openly support Trump, but don't use cute editing tricks to make yourselves out to be heroes for jumping ship and supporting Dems when you've been attacking them for fucking forever. JFC.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 12:02 AM on August 21 [6 favorites]
> That little gesture Obama made when he mentioned Trump's obsession about crowd sizes... > *chef's kiss*
You can tell he practiced it and was thinking about it as he led into the line. In the speech leading up to it and for most of the rest of the speech, he was gesturing with one hand. Then he started approaching the line and said “stream of gripes”. He thought about the “obsession with size” gesture and (subconsciously?) switched to one of the only two-handed gestures in the speech (open hands shadowing The Gesture), then brought the hands “into control” with another two-handed gesture (maraca/hauling-the-rope). Then he clutched the podium, first one hand and then the other, setting the stage for the visual zinger.
I always think it’s interesting to think about what’s in someone’s mind as they work to make a careful impression onstage. This one definitely was deliberately thought out.
posted by lostburner at 12:08 AM on August 21 [23 favorites]
You can tell he practiced it and was thinking about it as he led into the line. In the speech leading up to it and for most of the rest of the speech, he was gesturing with one hand. Then he started approaching the line and said “stream of gripes”. He thought about the “obsession with size” gesture and (subconsciously?) switched to one of the only two-handed gestures in the speech (open hands shadowing The Gesture), then brought the hands “into control” with another two-handed gesture (maraca/hauling-the-rope). Then he clutched the podium, first one hand and then the other, setting the stage for the visual zinger.
I always think it’s interesting to think about what’s in someone’s mind as they work to make a careful impression onstage. This one definitely was deliberately thought out.
posted by lostburner at 12:08 AM on August 21 [23 favorites]
toastyk just set up an FPP for the US response to Gaza
posted by cendawanita at 12:10 AM on August 21 [11 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 12:10 AM on August 21 [11 favorites]
Appears there's no DNC speech podcast, can others confirm? That seems like a kind of malpractice
posted by kensington314 at 12:24 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
posted by kensington314 at 12:24 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
Democratic National Convention YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@DemConvention/streams
Kamala Harris YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris/streams
Still ISO of a podcast or audio only stream.
posted by jointhedance at 5:03 AM on August 21
Kamala Harris YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@kamalaharris/streams
Still ISO of a podcast or audio only stream.
posted by jointhedance at 5:03 AM on August 21
The DNC has made a serious, deliberate effort to make room for hundreds of content creators and influencers. These newcomers have gotten coveted passes to the convention floor and workspace in the DNC’s new creator lounge and creator platform.
"*That* child got to have beer." from Wonkette
posted by jointhedance at 5:08 AM on August 21 [2 favorites]
"*That* child got to have beer." from Wonkette
posted by jointhedance at 5:08 AM on August 21 [2 favorites]
Yeah, surely that will capture the hearts and minds of the American public.
Not every political action is about scoring electoral victories. Sometimes it is about expressing a point of view that won't otherwise be heard. The idea that the US is not a flawed force for good or a shining city on the hill, but the cause of a great deal of needless suffering and exploitation is an idea that will never be acknowledged by those empowered by US hegemony.
The nature of events like the party conventions is to focus the attention of the country. Both insiders and outsider have incentive to use that moment of focus to communicate to the population.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:34 AM on August 21 [11 favorites]
Not every political action is about scoring electoral victories. Sometimes it is about expressing a point of view that won't otherwise be heard. The idea that the US is not a flawed force for good or a shining city on the hill, but the cause of a great deal of needless suffering and exploitation is an idea that will never be acknowledged by those empowered by US hegemony.
The nature of events like the party conventions is to focus the attention of the country. Both insiders and outsider have incentive to use that moment of focus to communicate to the population.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:34 AM on August 21 [11 favorites]
Stephen Colbert films an improvised act with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) at the DNC
Oh you're that three-name gal
(A bit cringe, bad sound, but still two of our best!)
posted by Glinn at 6:37 AM on August 21 [1 favorite]
Oh you're that three-name gal
(A bit cringe, bad sound, but still two of our best!)
posted by Glinn at 6:37 AM on August 21 [1 favorite]
Here's the NPR compilation of speeches from day 2.
posted by amarynth at 6:37 AM on August 21 [7 favorites]
posted by amarynth at 6:37 AM on August 21 [7 favorites]
TN Rep Justin Pearson's words as Tennessee awarded its delegates, with added old school church organ for your listening pleasure.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:21 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:21 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
Obama Delivers Sickest Burn to Trump Since 2011 White House Correspondents' Dinner. "Surely this," Say Democrats.
posted by straight at 7:40 AM on August 21 [1 favorite]
posted by straight at 7:40 AM on August 21 [1 favorite]
Obama Delivers Sickest Burn to Trump Since 2011 White House Correspondents' Dinner. "Surely this," Say Democrats.
I know you meant this ironically but - I swear I had a conversation with someone (during a rare moment when I was getting into it with a MAGAhead) and he actually did look down on the Democrats for not being able to do sick burns and memes.
The number of people who do make their choice based on this kind of behavior is small, but it isn't zero, either.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:43 AM on August 21 [6 favorites]
I know you meant this ironically but - I swear I had a conversation with someone (during a rare moment when I was getting into it with a MAGAhead) and he actually did look down on the Democrats for not being able to do sick burns and memes.
The number of people who do make their choice based on this kind of behavior is small, but it isn't zero, either.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:43 AM on August 21 [6 favorites]
Sometimes it is about expressing a point of view that won't otherwise be heard.
I've nothing against flag-burning on principle (it's a kind of speech, protected by the First Amendment). But I've often been mystified that it's done, because the symbolism is almost entirely out of the control of the flag-burner. The flag is a symbol of the entire country, which already makes it too big to be useful; people see the flag and think about their childhoods, or a street in a town to which they immigrated, or the business they inherited from their grandfather, or the unit they served with, and so on. The flag's symbolic meaning is just too wide, and so when someone burns it, they have no idea what, symbolically is being burnt in the viewer's mind.
It's an expression of anger, which, expressing political anger is a legit thing to do, but by itself doesn't articulate a point of view -we don't know what the protestor is angry at (and even in this case we can't assume it's the slaughter in Gaza, since the protests at the DNC are doing that Occupy Wall Street thing where there's a "range of progressive causes" represented) and, even if we did know what the protestor was angry about, nothing about the flag-burning lets us know what they want. Does the burning mean they want America itself to burn? Does it mean they want America to not exist? Or is the burning supposed to represent some preferred policy change?
It's a clumsy action relying on a symbol whose meaning is too undefined to be useful as a symbol, and all we know for sure is that it's going to offend some folks. There is a sort of activist who thinks giving offense is the entire persuasive power of their protest; I'm not sure if this is borrowed from the Situationists or they just are angry and want to interrupt something with their anger or what, but ok, their goal is to offend, I guess hoping that the offense will "wake up" the offended or something, but then the reaction after that is often to be outraged that the offended took offense at the action that was designed to offend? It just seems not very well thought out and runs the risk of alienating otherwise potential allies.
tl;dr - I have no idea what this particular flag-burner's point of view is about anything other than that they, too, see flag-burning as protected speech.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 9:00 AM on August 21 [51 favorites]
I've nothing against flag-burning on principle (it's a kind of speech, protected by the First Amendment). But I've often been mystified that it's done, because the symbolism is almost entirely out of the control of the flag-burner. The flag is a symbol of the entire country, which already makes it too big to be useful; people see the flag and think about their childhoods, or a street in a town to which they immigrated, or the business they inherited from their grandfather, or the unit they served with, and so on. The flag's symbolic meaning is just too wide, and so when someone burns it, they have no idea what, symbolically is being burnt in the viewer's mind.
It's an expression of anger, which, expressing political anger is a legit thing to do, but by itself doesn't articulate a point of view -we don't know what the protestor is angry at (and even in this case we can't assume it's the slaughter in Gaza, since the protests at the DNC are doing that Occupy Wall Street thing where there's a "range of progressive causes" represented) and, even if we did know what the protestor was angry about, nothing about the flag-burning lets us know what they want. Does the burning mean they want America itself to burn? Does it mean they want America to not exist? Or is the burning supposed to represent some preferred policy change?
It's a clumsy action relying on a symbol whose meaning is too undefined to be useful as a symbol, and all we know for sure is that it's going to offend some folks. There is a sort of activist who thinks giving offense is the entire persuasive power of their protest; I'm not sure if this is borrowed from the Situationists or they just are angry and want to interrupt something with their anger or what, but ok, their goal is to offend, I guess hoping that the offense will "wake up" the offended or something, but then the reaction after that is often to be outraged that the offended took offense at the action that was designed to offend? It just seems not very well thought out and runs the risk of alienating otherwise potential allies.
tl;dr - I have no idea what this particular flag-burner's point of view is about anything other than that they, too, see flag-burning as protected speech.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 9:00 AM on August 21 [51 favorites]
Obama Delivers Sickest Burn to Trump Since 2011 White House Correspondents' Dinner
On the one hand, I think it's sad to see a former president of the United States mocking the penis size of another former president.
On the other hand, that's gonna leave a mark.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:16 AM on August 21 [7 favorites]
On the one hand, I think it's sad to see a former president of the United States mocking the penis size of another former president.
On the other hand, that's gonna leave a mark.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:16 AM on August 21 [7 favorites]
On the one hand, I think it's sad to see a former president of the United States mocking the penis size of another former president.
Even if the followers of the "another former president" regularly mock the wife of the first former president by implying that she's so ugly that she must secretly really be a man in drag?
I mean, I feel you, but I think it has been well established by now which of these two men took the bully-discourse route first, and it's also been well established by now that this is the language he regularly speaks and may be the only language he would understand.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:24 AM on August 21 [26 favorites]
Even if the followers of the "another former president" regularly mock the wife of the first former president by implying that she's so ugly that she must secretly really be a man in drag?
I mean, I feel you, but I think it has been well established by now which of these two men took the bully-discourse route first, and it's also been well established by now that this is the language he regularly speaks and may be the only language he would understand.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:24 AM on August 21 [26 favorites]
"Plausible Deniability"
The former President was only referring to his "crowd size" exaggerations...
posted by Windopaene at 9:24 AM on August 21 [14 favorites]
The former President was only referring to his "crowd size" exaggerations...
posted by Windopaene at 9:24 AM on August 21 [14 favorites]
I loved the way he kinda looked down at his hands for just a second.
posted by MtDewd at 9:32 AM on August 21 [9 favorites]
posted by MtDewd at 9:32 AM on August 21 [9 favorites]
so after a night of the most pedantic, hair-splitting, semantics-wringing and straight-up misrepresenting from "fact checkers", the NYT accidentally says the quiet part loud:
"The first half of the evening was larded with lieutenant governors, a state senator and who-the-hell-is-that bureaucrats, boring us out of our skulls. Competent governance doesn’t make for compelling drama. Especially not after nine years of watching MAGA stick its fingers in electrical sockets. My adrenal glands were going through withdrawal."
emphasis added and holy shit is it any wonder these same folks will just let trump say the most hateful fictions with zero pusback while trying their damnedest to pick apart dnc speeches with the uncharitability of a reddit thread? they're not interested in truth; they want eyeballs at the cheapest available price.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:46 AM on August 21 [57 favorites]
"The first half of the evening was larded with lieutenant governors, a state senator and who-the-hell-is-that bureaucrats, boring us out of our skulls. Competent governance doesn’t make for compelling drama. Especially not after nine years of watching MAGA stick its fingers in electrical sockets. My adrenal glands were going through withdrawal."
emphasis added and holy shit is it any wonder these same folks will just let trump say the most hateful fictions with zero pusback while trying their damnedest to pick apart dnc speeches with the uncharitability of a reddit thread? they're not interested in truth; they want eyeballs at the cheapest available price.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 9:46 AM on August 21 [57 favorites]
> "The first half of the evening was larded with lieutenant governors, a state senator and who-the-hell-is-that bureaucrats, boring us out of our skulls. Competent governance doesn’t make for compelling drama. Especially not after nine years of watching MAGA stick its fingers in electrical sockets. My adrenal glands were going through withdrawal."
Democracy Dies of Ennui
posted by tonycpsu at 9:52 AM on August 21 [27 favorites]
Democracy Dies of Ennui
posted by tonycpsu at 9:52 AM on August 21 [27 favorites]
I've often been mystified that it's done, because the symbolism is almost entirely out of the control of the flag-burner.
The really fascinating thing is that you’re actually *supposed*, per the Flag Code, to burn the flag, so you have this hilarious horseshoe of flag burners being both those who love the flag the most and hate the flag the most. An American flag cannot be thrown away; when it has reached the end of its useful life it must be honorably burned. (There is, though I don’t know that I’ve ever seen it made, an interesting symbolic argument that the flag itself has reached the end of its symbolic life because America no longer honors the principles for which it stands, but that’s somewhat outside of the scope of this conversation)
posted by corb at 10:01 AM on August 21 [24 favorites]
The really fascinating thing is that you’re actually *supposed*, per the Flag Code, to burn the flag, so you have this hilarious horseshoe of flag burners being both those who love the flag the most and hate the flag the most. An American flag cannot be thrown away; when it has reached the end of its useful life it must be honorably burned. (There is, though I don’t know that I’ve ever seen it made, an interesting symbolic argument that the flag itself has reached the end of its symbolic life because America no longer honors the principles for which it stands, but that’s somewhat outside of the scope of this conversation)
posted by corb at 10:01 AM on August 21 [24 favorites]
Does the burning mean they want America itself to burn? Does it mean they want America to not exist? Or is the burning supposed to represent some preferred policy change?
I think it is a pretty clear statement. It means the political entity the flag represents should cease to exist.
It's also stands for a rejection of patriotism and the reverence for the things sacred to American "civic religion". Including the idea that the US is exceptional, or that US leaders or symbols or that the US military and its veterans deserve veneration.
It isn't a popular statement, but it doesn't seem ambiguous. If it were people wouldn't get so angry when it is made.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:02 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
I think it is a pretty clear statement. It means the political entity the flag represents should cease to exist.
It's also stands for a rejection of patriotism and the reverence for the things sacred to American "civic religion". Including the idea that the US is exceptional, or that US leaders or symbols or that the US military and its veterans deserve veneration.
It isn't a popular statement, but it doesn't seem ambiguous. If it were people wouldn't get so angry when it is made.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:02 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
I think it is a pretty clear statement. It means the political entity the flag represents should cease to exist. It's also stands for a rejection of patriotism and the reverence for the things sacred to American "civic religion". Including the idea that the US is exceptional, or that US leaders or symbols or that the US military and its veterans deserve veneration.
So wait, if it is a "clear statement", which of the six possible options you've presented would it be representing?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:09 AM on August 21 [14 favorites]
So wait, if it is a "clear statement", which of the six possible options you've presented would it be representing?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:09 AM on August 21 [14 favorites]
To burn a flag is to destroy an idol.
בָּרוּךְ אַתָּה אַדֹנָ-י אֱ-לֹהֵינוּ מֶלֶךְ הָעוֹלָם אֲשֶׁר קִדְּשָׁנוּ בְּמִצְוֹתָיו וְצִוָּנוּ להשמיד אלילים
Blessed are you, the Lord our God, Sovereign of the Universe, Who has sanctified us with your commandments, and commanded us to destroy idols.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 10:11 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
בָּרוּךְ אַתָּה אַדֹנָ-י אֱ-לֹהֵינוּ מֶלֶךְ הָעוֹלָם אֲשֶׁר קִדְּשָׁנוּ בְּמִצְוֹתָיו וְצִוָּנוּ להשמיד אלילים
Blessed are you, the Lord our God, Sovereign of the Universe, Who has sanctified us with your commandments, and commanded us to destroy idols.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 10:11 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
I think it is a pretty clear statement. It means the political entity the flag represents should cease to exist.
Ok, but can you see how that might alienate allies in the movement for Gaza? I have my issues with my country, but I do not want the United States to cease to exist, for example. I do want an end to the suffering in Gaza. But if an end to the United States is one of this particular protestor's goals, I cannot ally with them, and notably, neither can the person running for President.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 10:22 AM on August 21 [14 favorites]
Ok, but can you see how that might alienate allies in the movement for Gaza? I have my issues with my country, but I do not want the United States to cease to exist, for example. I do want an end to the suffering in Gaza. But if an end to the United States is one of this particular protestor's goals, I cannot ally with them, and notably, neither can the person running for President.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 10:22 AM on August 21 [14 favorites]
kirkaracha: I think it's sad to see a former president of the United States mocking the penis size of another former president.
You could argue that TFG invited that because he talked about his penis size in public, long before anyone else did.
Or you could argue that it's not his penis size that was mocked (after all, Obama doesn't know that) but Trump's obsession with it.
posted by Too-Ticky at 10:23 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
You could argue that TFG invited that because he talked about his penis size in public, long before anyone else did.
Or you could argue that it's not his penis size that was mocked (after all, Obama doesn't know that) but Trump's obsession with it.
posted by Too-Ticky at 10:23 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
New Harris campaign ad released today: 'Foundation'
New AFT ad for Walz featuring a former student: Laura
posted by box at 10:25 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
New AFT ad for Walz featuring a former student: Laura
posted by box at 10:25 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
Both seem to be the same link box
The Harris one is pretty good
posted by Windopaene at 10:29 AM on August 21 [1 favorite]
The Harris one is pretty good
posted by Windopaene at 10:29 AM on August 21 [1 favorite]
So wait, if it is a "clear statement", which of the six possible options you've presented would it be representing?
All of them, obviously. They aren't distinct concepts.
Ok, but can you see how that might alienate allies in the movement for Gaza? I have my issues with my country, but I do not want the United States to cease to exist, for example
Protests have multiple goals. Those goals aren't all shared by every group or member at the protest. I don't think this protest was intended to win converts. Anyone who needs coaxing to recognize the immorality if what is happening in Gaza isn't going to be swayed by this. It was meant to pressure Democrats. But most protests in this scale serve other purposes, like building solidarity within the protestors, expressing radical political positions which otherwise get ignored, amd simply openly expressing
political sentiments that are usually forbidden by social pressure.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:33 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
All of them, obviously. They aren't distinct concepts.
Ok, but can you see how that might alienate allies in the movement for Gaza? I have my issues with my country, but I do not want the United States to cease to exist, for example
Protests have multiple goals. Those goals aren't all shared by every group or member at the protest. I don't think this protest was intended to win converts. Anyone who needs coaxing to recognize the immorality if what is happening in Gaza isn't going to be swayed by this. It was meant to pressure Democrats. But most protests in this scale serve other purposes, like building solidarity within the protestors, expressing radical political positions which otherwise get ignored, amd simply openly expressing
political sentiments that are usually forbidden by social pressure.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:33 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
Sorry about that, here's the Walz one, and here are a couple Harris ads aimed at Asian American voters.
posted by box at 10:36 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
posted by box at 10:36 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
I think it has been well established by now which of these two men took the bully-discourse route first
Totally agree, and I love how much this is going to bother him. I just regret he came on the scene at all. There used to be an expectation of gravitas from presidential-level politicians, and he made pussy-grabbing, dick jokes, and swearing part of the game. I want the other timeline where he lost to the Sunday-school teacher.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:37 AM on August 21 [8 favorites]
Totally agree, and I love how much this is going to bother him. I just regret he came on the scene at all. There used to be an expectation of gravitas from presidential-level politicians, and he made pussy-grabbing, dick jokes, and swearing part of the game. I want the other timeline where he lost to the Sunday-school teacher.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:37 AM on August 21 [8 favorites]
I would say that this particular protest was intended to be the stick to Uncommitted's carrot. Close to 250 pledged delegates, last i heard, have now signed onto a statement which calls for an arms embargo.
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:37 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 10:37 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
the NYT accidentally says the quiet part loud [...] and holy shit is it any wonder these same folks will just let[...]
Uh, that little "adrenal glands" quip isn't even from a NYTimes opinion writer, let alone a journalist -- it's from some (explicitly conservative?) guy with a substack (who also writes for the Weekly Standard) who was given a few blurbs in an 8-way roundtable discussion.
posted by nobody at 10:42 AM on August 21 [13 favorites]
Uh, that little "adrenal glands" quip isn't even from a NYTimes opinion writer, let alone a journalist -- it's from some (explicitly conservative?) guy with a substack (who also writes for the Weekly Standard) who was given a few blurbs in an 8-way roundtable discussion.
posted by nobody at 10:42 AM on August 21 [13 favorites]
I know you meant this ironically but - I swear I had a conversation with someone (during a rare moment when I was getting into it with a MAGAhead) and he actually did look down on the Democrats for not being able to do sick burns and memes.
This probably isn't specifically where he was coming from, but I've thought for years that a huge problem with Democrats' response to the general shitfuckery of the modern GOP is that their tone is wildly out of line with how you'd expect a rational person to react when faced with the behavior they're describing. If I'm watching a politician say their opponents are trying to overthrow democracy, immiserate millions of people and maybe kill a bunch of elected Democrats, without ever sounding genuinely angry, horrified or afraid, the goal may be to sound statesmanlike and serious but it just gives the impression they don't really mean it. And if the other guy is doing something deeply ridiculous, I'd like to see Dems react like an actual person and ridicule it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:44 AM on August 21 [17 favorites]
This probably isn't specifically where he was coming from, but I've thought for years that a huge problem with Democrats' response to the general shitfuckery of the modern GOP is that their tone is wildly out of line with how you'd expect a rational person to react when faced with the behavior they're describing. If I'm watching a politician say their opponents are trying to overthrow democracy, immiserate millions of people and maybe kill a bunch of elected Democrats, without ever sounding genuinely angry, horrified or afraid, the goal may be to sound statesmanlike and serious but it just gives the impression they don't really mean it. And if the other guy is doing something deeply ridiculous, I'd like to see Dems react like an actual person and ridicule it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:44 AM on August 21 [17 favorites]
I want the other timeline where he lost to the Sunday-school teacher.
Is this… Clinton? Did she teach Sunday school?
posted by jeoc at 10:50 AM on August 21 [1 favorite]
Is this… Clinton? Did she teach Sunday school?
posted by jeoc at 10:50 AM on August 21 [1 favorite]
My wife and I hand-stitched a US flag after Obama was elected, and we took it to his first inauguration. We flew it often, and it was pretty faded and worn after 8 years. So I burned it in front of the federal courthouse after Trump won the 2016 election. In protest, in disappointment, and to lay it to rest. Got some media exposure where I got to explain myself. Also paid a $500 fine because we had a county burn ban at the time (though I was safe with it and put it out when the fire marshall told me to). Finished the job after the ban was lifted and they tried to fine me again, but I had the fire marshall on video saying it would be legal as a First Amendment demonstration if the burn ban wasn't in effect, so I beat that rap.
posted by rikschell at 11:03 AM on August 21 [46 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 11:03 AM on August 21 [46 favorites]
it's from some (explicitly conservative?) guy with a substack (who also writes for the Weekly Standard) who was given a few blurbs in an 8-way roundtable discussion.
Oh wow. Who decided to platform them?
posted by Artw at 11:08 AM on August 21 [8 favorites]
Oh wow. Who decided to platform them?
posted by Artw at 11:08 AM on August 21 [8 favorites]
Oh wow. Who decided to platform them?
I'm sorry, I just don't think that response really makes sense in this context. Here are the other two blurbs this guy contributed to the piece. The Times platforms some terrible things here and there, but this isn't one of them (at least from what's in this roundtable; I have no idea if he's terrible elsewhere):
posted by nobody at 11:23 AM on August 21 [8 favorites]
I'm sorry, I just don't think that response really makes sense in this context. Here are the other two blurbs this guy contributed to the piece. The Times platforms some terrible things here and there, but this isn't one of them (at least from what's in this roundtable; I have no idea if he's terrible elsewhere):
Representative Jasmine Crockett of Texas needs her own show. Not only is she a snazzy dresser, but she set the drapes on fire, material-wise. Sample line: “[Harris] became a career prosecutor, while [Trump] became a career criminal. With 34 felonies, two impeachments and one porn star to prove it.”and
Isbell singing “Something More Than Free” in front of an American flag on a barn? Suck on it, Lee Greenwood, and you Branson-comes-to-the-Republican-convention types. Republicans have been out-sung again. Don’t bother calling Ted Nugent to even up the score.Kinda seems like his main brand is...sassy?
posted by nobody at 11:23 AM on August 21 [8 favorites]
New swag at the campaign store, including some designer stuff. (Last link is to the Aurora James "America is an Idea" retro shirt, which I like & hope is better than the picture.)
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:39 AM on August 21 [6 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:39 AM on August 21 [6 favorites]
I don't get why people are getting the vapors over the fact that some guy in a panel was quoted as saying that certain portions of the convention have been a snooze fest in a NYT opinion piece that was specifically about reviewing the convention on its merits as a televised infotainment product. This entire discussion has basically been the equivalent of a Fanfare mega-thread about the Oscars or the Olympics, and that's perfectly fine! Political conventions have always been more about the circus than the bread.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:39 AM on August 21 [9 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:39 AM on August 21 [9 favorites]
I'm still waiting for an Oxford Kamalas shirt. Get on it, merch people!
posted by timestep at 11:51 AM on August 21 [15 favorites]
posted by timestep at 11:51 AM on August 21 [15 favorites]
Same here timestep, same here. I don't think it's coming, but that would be awesome.
posted by cashman at 12:27 PM on August 21 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 12:27 PM on August 21 [1 favorite]
I don't get why people are getting the vapors over the fact that some guy in a panel was quoted as saying that certain portions of the convention have been a snooze fest in a NYT opinion piece that was specifically about reviewing the convention on its merits as a televised infotainment product.
Because it's a demonstration of the political press not doing their fucking jobs.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:33 PM on August 21 [14 favorites]
Because it's a demonstration of the political press not doing their fucking jobs.
posted by NoxAeternum at 12:33 PM on August 21 [14 favorites]
I don't get why people are getting the vapors over the fact that some guy in a panel was quoted as saying that certain portions of the convention have been a snooze fest in a NYT opinion piece that was specifically about reviewing the convention on its merits as a televised infotainment product.
Nobody's getting the fucking vapors, but why the fucking fuck are these insignificant right wing choads in the New York Times at all? In an election where there's been A LOT of discussion and disgruntlement about how supposedly respectable neutral news sources seem to constantly have their thumb on the scale for Trump - even if it's just by ignoring the times he goes off the rails - to give these ripe suck nobodies ink in "the paper of record", the supposed pinnacle of solid respectable journalism, is another log on the fire.
This isn't fucking Tom and Lorenzo getting snarky about outfits, it's not even David Brooks whinging on. This is like 1 step above just printing QAnon Facebook comments in the paper. It's another example of the NYT demonstrating that they're lying about being neutral.
posted by soundguy99 at 12:44 PM on August 21 [25 favorites]
Nobody's getting the fucking vapors, but why the fucking fuck are these insignificant right wing choads in the New York Times at all? In an election where there's been A LOT of discussion and disgruntlement about how supposedly respectable neutral news sources seem to constantly have their thumb on the scale for Trump - even if it's just by ignoring the times he goes off the rails - to give these ripe suck nobodies ink in "the paper of record", the supposed pinnacle of solid respectable journalism, is another log on the fire.
This isn't fucking Tom and Lorenzo getting snarky about outfits, it's not even David Brooks whinging on. This is like 1 step above just printing QAnon Facebook comments in the paper. It's another example of the NYT demonstrating that they're lying about being neutral.
posted by soundguy99 at 12:44 PM on August 21 [25 favorites]
Because it's a demonstration of the political press not doing their fucking jobs.
I disagree.
This thing is equivalent to what would have been buried in the weekday Opinion or even Style section of the paper copy 25 years ago. It's a panel of newspaper employees and a random neocon because they were trying to fill out the "conservative" but also "snappy" perspective. It doesn't represent the Editorial position of the paper, or reflect anything much about the paper's assignment desk or editorial approach. It features columnists, but not members of the "political press" in the sense of people from the White House press corps or really people who are primarily reporters in any meaningful sense. It has one member of the Editorial Board making minor cheerleading contributions, and that Editorial Board will certainly endorse Kamala.
The idea that it's "saying the quiet part out loud" is also just kind of a stretch since the comment in question was made by someone who doesn't even work for or probably write for the NYT. It's a rando saying a rando thing. Elsewhere in the same discussion you have people heaping praise on Hillary Clinton, discussing the stakes of the abortion issue, approving of music choices, and on and on. If there's anything wrong with the piece it's that the upshot is a kind of smarmy worship of the Democratic Party.
But even that is kind of whatever. It is not hard news, or an Editorial. It is midweek filler about a television event, yes, for clicks.
posted by kensington314 at 12:47 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
I disagree.
This thing is equivalent to what would have been buried in the weekday Opinion or even Style section of the paper copy 25 years ago. It's a panel of newspaper employees and a random neocon because they were trying to fill out the "conservative" but also "snappy" perspective. It doesn't represent the Editorial position of the paper, or reflect anything much about the paper's assignment desk or editorial approach. It features columnists, but not members of the "political press" in the sense of people from the White House press corps or really people who are primarily reporters in any meaningful sense. It has one member of the Editorial Board making minor cheerleading contributions, and that Editorial Board will certainly endorse Kamala.
The idea that it's "saying the quiet part out loud" is also just kind of a stretch since the comment in question was made by someone who doesn't even work for or probably write for the NYT. It's a rando saying a rando thing. Elsewhere in the same discussion you have people heaping praise on Hillary Clinton, discussing the stakes of the abortion issue, approving of music choices, and on and on. If there's anything wrong with the piece it's that the upshot is a kind of smarmy worship of the Democratic Party.
But even that is kind of whatever. It is not hard news, or an Editorial. It is midweek filler about a television event, yes, for clicks.
posted by kensington314 at 12:47 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
Hey, just a few days ago the NYT admitted its "love affair with cocaine."
Oh wait, that was a guest essay by Patti Davis. But, since they "platformed" her, it's the same thing, right?
posted by neroli at 12:52 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
Oh wait, that was a guest essay by Patti Davis. But, since they "platformed" her, it's the same thing, right?
posted by neroli at 12:52 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
As far as we know, Patti Davis isn't a fucking fascist, and she's definitely not running for President. Knock it off.
posted by soundguy99 at 12:57 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
posted by soundguy99 at 12:57 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
This is like 1 step above just printing QAnon Facebook comments in the paper. It's another example of the NYT demonstrating that they're lying about being neutral.
Again, it's a fluff piece, not a news piece. There are three conservatives in the piece, which features eight people. Kristen Soltis Anderson is a pollster for the GOP, which is an indictment against her although I think she's in the good graces of the Never Trump set. Liam Donovan sucks and is also a former GOP operative who is well-liked in Never Trump land, I think. Labash is basically a poor man's PJ O'Rourke, which is an antiquated archetype but one the legacy media like to keep around.
It all sucks but it isn't Q-Anon. It is a fluff piece featuring mainstream US political writers who sort of suck because the political culture here sucks and so does the newspaper industry. But this is a fluff piece. It is nothing to raise your heart rate about.
posted by kensington314 at 1:00 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
Again, it's a fluff piece, not a news piece. There are three conservatives in the piece, which features eight people. Kristen Soltis Anderson is a pollster for the GOP, which is an indictment against her although I think she's in the good graces of the Never Trump set. Liam Donovan sucks and is also a former GOP operative who is well-liked in Never Trump land, I think. Labash is basically a poor man's PJ O'Rourke, which is an antiquated archetype but one the legacy media like to keep around.
It all sucks but it isn't Q-Anon. It is a fluff piece featuring mainstream US political writers who sort of suck because the political culture here sucks and so does the newspaper industry. But this is a fluff piece. It is nothing to raise your heart rate about.
posted by kensington314 at 1:00 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
But this is a fluff piece.
Which is the problem. You're arguing that we should look at this as a one off item, and not as part of the larger issue of the political press engaging in such fluff pieces over actual analysis.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:17 PM on August 21 [21 favorites]
Which is the problem. You're arguing that we should look at this as a one off item, and not as part of the larger issue of the political press engaging in such fluff pieces over actual analysis.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:17 PM on August 21 [21 favorites]
why the fucking fuck are these insignificant right wing choads in the New York Times at all?
Because the NYT imagines its op-eds as the marketplace of ideas where ideas of all kinds can get hashed out and the best ones might rise to the surface, but they have misunderstood how that marketplace is supposed to work; they think occasionally publishing contrarian articles, or having panels like these function like that (probably mythical) markeplace, but they don't because no one ever engages with the ideas with any kind of substance. No debate is had. It's a kind of bothsidesism.
Real debate is difficult and expensive to moderate (just ask Metafilter's mods!) and is messy and bad for advertisers. So they do this fake version and pat themselves on the back that they're being good journalists.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 1:19 PM on August 21 [3 favorites]
Because the NYT imagines its op-eds as the marketplace of ideas where ideas of all kinds can get hashed out and the best ones might rise to the surface, but they have misunderstood how that marketplace is supposed to work; they think occasionally publishing contrarian articles, or having panels like these function like that (probably mythical) markeplace, but they don't because no one ever engages with the ideas with any kind of substance. No debate is had. It's a kind of bothsidesism.
Real debate is difficult and expensive to moderate (just ask Metafilter's mods!) and is messy and bad for advertisers. So they do this fake version and pat themselves on the back that they're being good journalists.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 1:19 PM on August 21 [3 favorites]
You're arguing that we should look at this as a one off item
I think I'm just arguing that it doesn't matter as much as a news item. I actually agree with many (most?) here that the print news helped create Trump, but I think they did that via actual news coverage that generated them revenue and an intoxicating number of clicks, not out of some ideological preference. I gather that view is held by fewer and fewer people here, so maybe it feels like I'm splitting hairs.
posted by kensington314 at 1:25 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
I think I'm just arguing that it doesn't matter as much as a news item. I actually agree with many (most?) here that the print news helped create Trump, but I think they did that via actual news coverage that generated them revenue and an intoxicating number of clicks, not out of some ideological preference. I gather that view is held by fewer and fewer people here, so maybe it feels like I'm splitting hairs.
posted by kensington314 at 1:25 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
Also, the particular quote is getting dragged because there is an issue that competent, well executed leadership and management gets overshadowed by self-inflicted crisis management by incompetent leadership because the latter is more "interesting", even though there's less value there. This talk discusses this by comparing Shackleton vs. Amundsen, and how much more is written on the "leadership" of the former even though the crises he went through were caused by his poor decisions, while the latter's success is overshadowed because it was born of "boring" preparation and planning.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:30 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:30 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
Yeah, not here to defend the NYT or its leadership overall. I cancelled my subscription during the 2014 Gaza War. I just find myself in a kind of extreme bafflement here. Like it seems clear to me that they're in the tank for the Democratic candidate to win, while people here increasingly think they're in the tank for Trump. I'll never understand why people with such similar views (on the broad spectrum) can have such wildly divergent interpretations of things, but that's life in the human world I guess!
posted by kensington314 at 1:32 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
posted by kensington314 at 1:32 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
CNN says John Legend will play tonight (a Prince song for Coach Walz), and tomorrow night, Pink.
posted by Glinn at 1:37 PM on August 21
posted by Glinn at 1:37 PM on August 21
Nothing like a school privatization booster crooning for a public school teacher.
posted by kensington314 at 1:38 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
posted by kensington314 at 1:38 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
(I reserve all my ax-grinding for charter schools, leaving no energy left for the NYT.)
posted by kensington314 at 1:39 PM on August 21 [20 favorites]
posted by kensington314 at 1:39 PM on August 21 [20 favorites]
I love all the new designs in the Kamala store, but I feel like the emphasis on cold-weather gear represents a failure to acknowledge Arizona as a swing state.
posted by meese at 2:21 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
posted by meese at 2:21 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
I actually agree with many (most?) here that the print news helped create Trump, but I think they did that via actual news coverage that generated them revenue and an intoxicating number of clicks, not out of some ideological preference. I gather that view is held by fewer and fewer people here, so maybe it feels like I'm splitting hairs.
No, it's not that you're splitting hairs, it's that I think you're missing two important points:
1) Results are more important than reasons. I don't care if someone claims they're not a bigot in their heart, if their actions are bigoted then they need to be taken as bigots. The mainstream press may be treating Trump the way they are for clicks and revenue, or because they want to keep the "horse race" narrative, or they just can't bring themselves to acknowledge that one of the major parties has become a death cult of personality, or maybe they're getting marching instructions from editors and publishers, or maybe some of them actually want him to win.
Doesn't fucking matter. Why they might be making life easier for Trump is totally irrelevant when the end result, collectively, is that they are. Those are their actions. Those are what we are judging them on. Regardless of their ideology.
2) "For clicks and revenue" was maybe plausible back in 2015/2016, when Trump was largely an unknown. But we all lived through 4 years of his reign - including the part where he caused the death of thousands by not taking COVID seriously, and we fucking watched him try to pull a coup on live TV. And he hasn't gotten any more stable or less violent since then.
There's a semi-apocryphal quote about the purpose of journalism - "Our job is not to report both sides. One side says it’s raining and the other side says it is not raining. Our job is to look out the window.”
Trump and his cronies are raining fascism and bigotry all over the country right now. It's plain, clear, and obvious. Yet far too much of the "responsible", "neutral", "fact-based" press is refusing to look out the fucking window and report that it's raining. Instead, they're printing "puff pieces" about the value of the Democratic convention as infotainment, only, gosh, lo and behold, everyone opining in that puff piece is a right winger. Why? Why aren't they asking James Carville to be on that panel? Or Andy Richter? Why not Margaret Lyons, one of their own TV critics? Why the fuck is it someone from the blog section of the Weekly Standard? Fuck, get Tom and Lorenzo on the panel - that's a "puff piece." Asking the fascist fellow travelers to weigh in on the anti-fascist convention is "both sides" propaganda, given what we and journalists KNOW about Trump's beliefs, intentions, and behaviors AS FACTS.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:01 PM on August 21 [35 favorites]
No, it's not that you're splitting hairs, it's that I think you're missing two important points:
1) Results are more important than reasons. I don't care if someone claims they're not a bigot in their heart, if their actions are bigoted then they need to be taken as bigots. The mainstream press may be treating Trump the way they are for clicks and revenue, or because they want to keep the "horse race" narrative, or they just can't bring themselves to acknowledge that one of the major parties has become a death cult of personality, or maybe they're getting marching instructions from editors and publishers, or maybe some of them actually want him to win.
Doesn't fucking matter. Why they might be making life easier for Trump is totally irrelevant when the end result, collectively, is that they are. Those are their actions. Those are what we are judging them on. Regardless of their ideology.
2) "For clicks and revenue" was maybe plausible back in 2015/2016, when Trump was largely an unknown. But we all lived through 4 years of his reign - including the part where he caused the death of thousands by not taking COVID seriously, and we fucking watched him try to pull a coup on live TV. And he hasn't gotten any more stable or less violent since then.
There's a semi-apocryphal quote about the purpose of journalism - "Our job is not to report both sides. One side says it’s raining and the other side says it is not raining. Our job is to look out the window.”
Trump and his cronies are raining fascism and bigotry all over the country right now. It's plain, clear, and obvious. Yet far too much of the "responsible", "neutral", "fact-based" press is refusing to look out the fucking window and report that it's raining. Instead, they're printing "puff pieces" about the value of the Democratic convention as infotainment, only, gosh, lo and behold, everyone opining in that puff piece is a right winger. Why? Why aren't they asking James Carville to be on that panel? Or Andy Richter? Why not Margaret Lyons, one of their own TV critics? Why the fuck is it someone from the blog section of the Weekly Standard? Fuck, get Tom and Lorenzo on the panel - that's a "puff piece." Asking the fascist fellow travelers to weigh in on the anti-fascist convention is "both sides" propaganda, given what we and journalists KNOW about Trump's beliefs, intentions, and behaviors AS FACTS.
posted by soundguy99 at 3:01 PM on August 21 [35 favorites]
(I reserve all my ax-grinding for charter schools, leaving no energy left for the NYT.)
I respect your efforts. A respectable single issue to ax-grind on.
posted by Artw at 3:08 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
I respect your efforts. A respectable single issue to ax-grind on.
posted by Artw at 3:08 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
No, it's not that you're splitting hairs, it's that I think you're missing two important points:
1) Results are more important than reasons.
Okay, the result of reading that puff piece that would have been buried in Section F of a print newspaper is, "Wow this newspaper's op-ed columnists really love the Democratic Party."
posted by kensington314 at 3:12 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
1) Results are more important than reasons.
Okay, the result of reading that puff piece that would have been buried in Section F of a print newspaper is, "Wow this newspaper's op-ed columnists really love the Democratic Party."
posted by kensington314 at 3:12 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
Here is a clip from Morning Joe, comparing the roll calls of the RNC and DNC.
posted by droomoord at 3:13 PM on August 21 [9 favorites]
posted by droomoord at 3:13 PM on August 21 [9 favorites]
the purpose of journalism - "Our job is not to report both sides. One side says it’s raining and the other side says it is not raining. Our job is to look out the window.”
The purpose of journalism is mostly to sell advertising. Sometimes it's to attract donations with tote bags. But looking out the window is extraneous to the purpose, which is to pay the bills. If you're lucky enough to have a media environment where reporting facts and genuine analysis does that, you have that option. But it's been a rare thing in the history of publishing news. The problem with truth is there's not much of a demand for it.
posted by rikschell at 3:55 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
The purpose of journalism is mostly to sell advertising. Sometimes it's to attract donations with tote bags. But looking out the window is extraneous to the purpose, which is to pay the bills. If you're lucky enough to have a media environment where reporting facts and genuine analysis does that, you have that option. But it's been a rare thing in the history of publishing news. The problem with truth is there's not much of a demand for it.
posted by rikschell at 3:55 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
im in ur base killin ur d00dz
Now in jpg form.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:56 PM on August 21 [18 favorites]
Now in jpg form.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:56 PM on August 21 [18 favorites]
Doug Emhoff's Kids Pump Him Up Before DNC Speech
posted by Glinn at 4:08 PM on August 21 [15 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 4:08 PM on August 21 [15 favorites]
cold-weather gear represents a failure to acknowledge Arizona as a swing state.
I'm going to meet some friends at a park here in Phoenix today. It might be only 90F. Maybe I should bring a sweater.
posted by nat at 4:21 PM on August 21 [3 favorites]
I'm going to meet some friends at a park here in Phoenix today. It might be only 90F. Maybe I should bring a sweater.
posted by nat at 4:21 PM on August 21 [3 favorites]
Meanwhile, just now: Michigan's Attorney General, Dana Nessel
"To the Republicans and the Supreme Court Justices: You can pry this wedding band from my cold, dead, gay hand. And I'm retaining a lot of water, so good luck with that."
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:48 PM on August 21 [45 favorites]
"To the Republicans and the Supreme Court Justices: You can pry this wedding band from my cold, dead, gay hand. And I'm retaining a lot of water, so good luck with that."
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:48 PM on August 21 [45 favorites]
Extremely online Trumpers are really leaning into criticizing Ella Emhoff, who looks a lot like most of the twentysomething women that I know.
We’ll see how that works out for them.
posted by box at 5:37 PM on August 21 [11 favorites]
We’ll see how that works out for them.
posted by box at 5:37 PM on August 21 [11 favorites]
DON'T YOU TOUCH ELLA I LOVE HER and her yarn, especially her yarn.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:47 PM on August 21 [10 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:47 PM on August 21 [10 favorites]
gotta say, the republican national convention 2024 seems quite reasonable. why are they holding a second one in chicago after they did the milwaukee one?
posted by i used to be someone else at 5:48 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
posted by i used to be someone else at 5:48 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
Holy shit Stevie Wonder!
posted by DiscourseMarker at 5:54 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
posted by DiscourseMarker at 5:54 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
No kidding it's a lot of Republicans. They want to save Democracy! And also save the tatters of their party for some reason. Some good speeches, though.
The speech by the capital officer who had to retire due to Jan 6 injuries was a powerful moment.
posted by Glinn at 5:54 PM on August 21 [11 favorites]
The speech by the capital officer who had to retire due to Jan 6 injuries was a powerful moment.
posted by Glinn at 5:54 PM on August 21 [11 favorites]
Dana Nessel's "you can pry this wedding band from my cold, dead, gay hand" was like a direct injection of joy and hope for this queer Michigander who's been worried about what might happen to her marriage under the current court. I'm gonna be riding that high all day long.
posted by oc-to-po-des at 5:55 PM on August 21 [25 favorites]
posted by oc-to-po-des at 5:55 PM on August 21 [25 favorites]
Kenan Thompson. ❤️
posted by Glinn at 5:59 PM on August 21 [1 favorite]
posted by Glinn at 5:59 PM on August 21 [1 favorite]
i mean, i get it on why there are so many republicans. and it's clear they've done the calculations--it's possible there are more gettable votes from the republicans than the groups currently being exterminated with bombs provided by this administration or legislatively unpersoned by the republican votes they're trying to get.
i should have skipped this day.
posted by i used to be someone else at 5:59 PM on August 21 [2 favorites]
i should have skipped this day.
posted by i used to be someone else at 5:59 PM on August 21 [2 favorites]
Oprah Winfrey is in the building.
posted by box at 6:03 PM on August 21 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 6:03 PM on August 21 [2 favorites]
Hakeem Jeffries: “Bro, we broke up with you for a reason.”
posted by box at 6:13 PM on August 21 [17 favorites]
posted by box at 6:13 PM on August 21 [17 favorites]
Jeffries is crushing this. So much fun.
posted by DiscourseMarker at 6:15 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
posted by DiscourseMarker at 6:15 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
Bill Clinton: “Wow, I have gotten old.” (fake)
posted by box at 6:22 PM on August 21 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 6:22 PM on August 21 [2 favorites]
And Clinton is younger than Joe Biden.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 6:23 PM on August 21
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 6:23 PM on August 21
And Clinton just said "I'm still younger than Donald Trump."
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 6:25 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 6:25 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
It sure would be nice if ole Bill could pronounce Kamala correctly. grrrarrrgghhh
He keeps saying KAM ah la. I think it's his southern drawl, but damn, it's embarrassing.
The Project 2025 / Kenan Thompson bit was FANTASTIC. Did Mindy Kaling just introduce Nancy Pelosi as the "Mother of Dragons"???
posted by pjsky at 6:51 PM on August 21 [3 favorites]
He keeps saying KAM ah la. I think it's his southern drawl, but damn, it's embarrassing.
The Project 2025 / Kenan Thompson bit was FANTASTIC. Did Mindy Kaling just introduce Nancy Pelosi as the "Mother of Dragons"???
posted by pjsky at 6:51 PM on August 21 [3 favorites]
Bill Clinton: "Lord, I'm gettin' old." (real)
posted by droomoord at 6:51 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
posted by droomoord at 6:51 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
the purpose of journalism is mostly to sell advertising
i wouldn't go this far tbh, because i don't think reporting accurate information for the public good is mutually exclusive to selling ads. an outlet can draw advertisers on a lot of different sections and platforms of a paper, and what draws advertising first and foremost is how many eyeballs are landing on those pages. the problem is maintaining the balance as you lengthen the tail, so the temptation to sorta tilt the framing and content of news towards moving the truth down the list of priorities is very real, sometimes even unconscious. bottom line is i respect how difficult the publishing racket is but beyond a certain point news editors need to bear responsibility for what and what isn't reported and how. i just think they can do better and it's frankly heartbreaking to see papers i grew up with, that inspired me to pursue this as a career, make decisions on their reporting that disservice the public. and it makes me immensely grateful for those outlets and individual reporters who still believe in something
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:14 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
i wouldn't go this far tbh, because i don't think reporting accurate information for the public good is mutually exclusive to selling ads. an outlet can draw advertisers on a lot of different sections and platforms of a paper, and what draws advertising first and foremost is how many eyeballs are landing on those pages. the problem is maintaining the balance as you lengthen the tail, so the temptation to sorta tilt the framing and content of news towards moving the truth down the list of priorities is very real, sometimes even unconscious. bottom line is i respect how difficult the publishing racket is but beyond a certain point news editors need to bear responsibility for what and what isn't reported and how. i just think they can do better and it's frankly heartbreaking to see papers i grew up with, that inspired me to pursue this as a career, make decisions on their reporting that disservice the public. and it makes me immensely grateful for those outlets and individual reporters who still believe in something
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 7:14 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
Gosh, I love Amanda Gorman's work so much. (If you haven't read her first collection, definitely check it out.)
posted by timestep at 7:24 PM on August 21 [1 favorite]
posted by timestep at 7:24 PM on August 21 [1 favorite]
At the reporting and editorial level, there can be people trying to tell the truth, but at the publishing (broadcast, etc) level, it's all about profit (or staying afloat). And it's the publisher who hires the editorial. If it bleeds, it leads. Eyeballs outweigh truth-telling.
posted by rikschell at 7:32 PM on August 21 [1 favorite]
posted by rikschell at 7:32 PM on August 21 [1 favorite]
It sure would be nice if ole Bill could pronounce Kamala correctly. grrrarrrgghhh
He keeps saying KAM ah la. I think it's his southern drawl, but damn, it's embarrassing.
He sounds pretty well in the acceptable range?
posted by trig at 7:41 PM on August 21 [3 favorites]
He keeps saying KAM ah la. I think it's his southern drawl, but damn, it's embarrassing.
He sounds pretty well in the acceptable range?
posted by trig at 7:41 PM on August 21 [3 favorites]
Hey, uh... Oprah is a pretty dang great communicator.
posted by meese at 7:43 PM on August 21 [11 favorites]
posted by meese at 7:43 PM on August 21 [11 favorites]
I loved her bit about rescuing the childless cat lady, and the cat too.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:45 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:45 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
Oprah hit some really strong notes. "Let us choose common sense, over nonsense." is a great clarion call.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 7:47 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
posted by mrjohnmuller at 7:47 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
"I just want your skepticism to be your companion and not your captor." --Wes Moore
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:51 PM on August 21 [25 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:51 PM on August 21 [25 favorites]
"I want your skepticism to be your companion and not your captor."
These people are saying things that make sense to me.
posted by droomoord at 7:53 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
These people are saying things that make sense to me.
posted by droomoord at 7:53 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
"True patriots do not whine and complain." I like all the subtle, indirect Trump references at this convention.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:55 PM on August 21 [13 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 7:55 PM on August 21 [13 favorites]
So yes, I'm going to be petty and go for the fluffy angle:
The RNC music was Kid Rock, Lee Greenwood doing "God Bless The USA" for the umpty-ga-billionth time, and....that's it.
Meanwhile the DNC has Prince, Stevie Wonder, and a surprise Lil' John appearance and it's not even over.
....Hah.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:23 PM on August 21 [10 favorites]
The RNC music was Kid Rock, Lee Greenwood doing "God Bless The USA" for the umpty-ga-billionth time, and....that's it.
Meanwhile the DNC has Prince, Stevie Wonder, and a surprise Lil' John appearance and it's not even over.
....Hah.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:23 PM on August 21 [10 favorites]
Walz' son crying and saying "That's my dad!" Hit me right in the feels.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:31 PM on August 21 [29 favorites]
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 8:31 PM on August 21 [29 favorites]
Yay Gus!
posted by mazola at 8:31 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
posted by mazola at 8:31 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
Awww the kids cryin dang
posted by Glinn at 8:35 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 8:35 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
(I don't know what I expected from this convention, but it wasn't this. Dang!)
posted by mazola at 8:41 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
posted by mazola at 8:41 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
Does no one listen to lyrics any more? Or is the Neil Young choice intentional?
(To be clear, this is just my annoyance that THINGS have not been done PROPERLY and THOROUGHLY often far beyond reasonable expectations. I am surprisingly pumped about the convention in whole.)
posted by tllaya at 8:45 PM on August 21 [1 favorite]
(To be clear, this is just my annoyance that THINGS have not been done PROPERLY and THOROUGHLY often far beyond reasonable expectations. I am surprisingly pumped about the convention in whole.)
posted by tllaya at 8:45 PM on August 21 [1 favorite]
Tim Walz is incredibly good at this.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:50 PM on August 21 [17 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:50 PM on August 21 [17 favorites]
I learned today that Gus Walz is neurodivergent. It fills my heart that Tim Walz has lived experience in considering, attending to, and advocating for a positive environment of care for this particular demographic.
posted by droomoord at 8:54 PM on August 21 [44 favorites]
posted by droomoord at 8:54 PM on August 21 [44 favorites]
That was a real barn-burner of a speech from Tim Walz, and I am absolutely giddy that the Democrats have seized the language of freedom and American values from the Republicans. They used it as a cudgel for decades now to paint the Democratic party as un-American, and it's good to see them finally claiming it for themselves, as they should.
By hitching their wagons to that horrifying narcissist, the conservatives just completely dropped the ball on that, and the Democrats have scooped it right up. Their values are a much better fir for the old "Truth, Justice, and the American way," tropes than a party dedicated to insuring the control of the hyper-rich 1% anyway, so I'm just pleased to see them embrace it.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 8:57 PM on August 21 [35 favorites]
By hitching their wagons to that horrifying narcissist, the conservatives just completely dropped the ball on that, and the Democrats have scooped it right up. Their values are a much better fir for the old "Truth, Justice, and the American way," tropes than a party dedicated to insuring the control of the hyper-rich 1% anyway, so I'm just pleased to see them embrace it.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 8:57 PM on August 21 [35 favorites]
I want all the b-roll footage of my Minnesota delegation going nuts on be floor!
posted by nathan_teske at 9:09 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
posted by nathan_teske at 9:09 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
Apropos of some stuff above, here's my favorite final word on all kinds of flag-burning, which also happens to be my favorite Maximum Rocknroll cover.
posted by mediareport at 9:09 PM on August 21 [1 favorite]
posted by mediareport at 9:09 PM on August 21 [1 favorite]
That was a pretty good night. Not quite as good as Tuesday, since Walz hit a lot of stump-speech points, and he's not quite as good of a speechifier as either Obama. That plus Oprah is a pretty decent night.
posted by netowl at 9:11 PM on August 21
posted by netowl at 9:11 PM on August 21
Does no one listen to lyrics any more? Or is the Neil Young choice intentional?
Had to be intentional. Young is touchy about licensing for political purposes, and once sued Trump to prevent use of this same song. I'm seeing reports that he gave permission specifically for Walz's use.
For what it's worth, I think the lyrics are perfectly on point for the occasion. They speak to finding joy in the midst of chaos and hypocrisy.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 9:13 PM on August 21 [9 favorites]
Had to be intentional. Young is touchy about licensing for political purposes, and once sued Trump to prevent use of this same song. I'm seeing reports that he gave permission specifically for Walz's use.
For what it's worth, I think the lyrics are perfectly on point for the occasion. They speak to finding joy in the midst of chaos and hypocrisy.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 9:13 PM on August 21 [9 favorites]
Please, no more flag-burning derail.
posted by NotLost at 9:17 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
posted by NotLost at 9:17 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
Had to be intentional. Young is touchy about licensing for political purposes
Fwiw the MSNBC talking heads said Neil Young gave specific permission for them to use the song.
posted by nathan_teske at 9:20 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
Fwiw the MSNBC talking heads said Neil Young gave specific permission for them to use the song.
posted by nathan_teske at 9:20 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
Dang, I'm imagining Oprah as a candidate. I know, I know. Many, many reasons why she wouldn't. She gives a good speech tho.
posted by ishmael at 9:21 PM on August 21
posted by ishmael at 9:21 PM on August 21
I am not in any way an Oprah fan, but that was a helluva speech. Hell, get her on the campaign trail. She'll draw out those suburban women in droves.
posted by Ber at 9:28 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
posted by Ber at 9:28 PM on August 21 [8 favorites]
By hitching their wagons to that horrifying narcissist, the conservatives just completely dropped the ball on that, and the Democrats have scooped it right up.
Well, in the spirit of the evening let’s go football metaphor. Team Trump just picked up a crucial first down late in the fourth and all they gotta do is kneel out the clock… and they’re gonna go ahead and run the ball instead? Oops, they just fumbled and Team Harris has recovered, and it’s going the other way. (This happens in a game every few years…)
posted by azpenguin at 9:35 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
Well, in the spirit of the evening let’s go football metaphor. Team Trump just picked up a crucial first down late in the fourth and all they gotta do is kneel out the clock… and they’re gonna go ahead and run the ball instead? Oops, they just fumbled and Team Harris has recovered, and it’s going the other way. (This happens in a game every few years…)
posted by azpenguin at 9:35 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
I have missed all of tonight.
Thanks to all who have filled me in.
LFG!
posted by Windopaene at 9:54 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
Thanks to all who have filled me in.
LFG!
posted by Windopaene at 9:54 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
For what it's worth, I think the lyrics are perfectly on point for the occasion. They speak to finding joy in the midst of chaos and hypocrisy.
And there are so many specific references to the political landscape of the late '80s. These are about George H.W. Bush:
We got a thousand points of light
For the homeless man
We got a kinder, gentler machine gun hand
And this is about Jesse Jackson's 1988 presidential campaign:
Got a man of the people says, "Keep hope alive"
Not to mention the stuff about the ozone layer.
I can see exactly why he'd be on board with them playing this song at this convention.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 10:11 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
And there are so many specific references to the political landscape of the late '80s. These are about George H.W. Bush:
We got a thousand points of light
For the homeless man
We got a kinder, gentler machine gun hand
And this is about Jesse Jackson's 1988 presidential campaign:
Got a man of the people says, "Keep hope alive"
Not to mention the stuff about the ozone layer.
I can see exactly why he'd be on board with them playing this song at this convention.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 10:11 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
METAFILTER: I have missed all of tonight.
posted by philip-random at 10:16 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 10:16 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
I am blown away by the production values of the DNC. They are so, as Dekoven would say, super OTW. And when will RFKjr become TFKfrvr? What a stain on the family name.
posted by y2karl at 10:31 PM on August 21 [2 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 10:31 PM on August 21 [2 favorites]
I don't wanna derail too much here, but these are the lyrics to "Rockin' in the Free World":
There’s colors on the street
Red, white, and blue
People shuffling their feet
People sleeping in their shoes
There’s a warning sign on the road ahead
There’s a lot of people saying we’d be better off dead
Don’t feel like Satan, but I am to them
So I try to forget it any way I can
[Chorus]
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
[Verse 2]
I see a woman in the night
With a baby in her hand
There's an old street light
Near a garbage can
Now she put the kid away and she’s gone to get a hit
She hates her life and what she’s done to it
There’s one more kid that’ll never go to school
Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool
[Chorus]
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
[Verse 3]
We got a thousand points of light
For the homeless man
We got a kinder, gentler machine gun hand
We've got department stores and toilet paper
Got styrofoam boxes for the ozone layer
Got a man of the people says keep hope alive
Got fuel to burn, got roads to drive
[Chorus]
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
It really is not about joy that I can see. They were literally waving and dancing on stage to lyrics about a woman dumping her baby in a garbage can. The use of the song here doesn't seem a whole lot different than Reagan misunderstanding "Born in the USA".
That said, Neil gave permission and he may even know what the song is about :)
posted by maupuia at 10:34 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
There’s colors on the street
Red, white, and blue
People shuffling their feet
People sleeping in their shoes
There’s a warning sign on the road ahead
There’s a lot of people saying we’d be better off dead
Don’t feel like Satan, but I am to them
So I try to forget it any way I can
[Chorus]
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
[Verse 2]
I see a woman in the night
With a baby in her hand
There's an old street light
Near a garbage can
Now she put the kid away and she’s gone to get a hit
She hates her life and what she’s done to it
There’s one more kid that’ll never go to school
Never get to fall in love, never get to be cool
[Chorus]
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
[Verse 3]
We got a thousand points of light
For the homeless man
We got a kinder, gentler machine gun hand
We've got department stores and toilet paper
Got styrofoam boxes for the ozone layer
Got a man of the people says keep hope alive
Got fuel to burn, got roads to drive
[Chorus]
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
Keep on rockin' in the free world
It really is not about joy that I can see. They were literally waving and dancing on stage to lyrics about a woman dumping her baby in a garbage can. The use of the song here doesn't seem a whole lot different than Reagan misunderstanding "Born in the USA".
That said, Neil gave permission and he may even know what the song is about :)
posted by maupuia at 10:34 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
Excellent. It was specifically the machine gun hand I was questioning. Pleased to know it was I who misinterpreted the full intent of the lyrics and not the people doing the vetting. I think I’m just so used to state politicians coming out to a song that seems is celebrating their state, but it’s satire. Also, a few years of complete WTF from Trump's choices.
posted by tllaya at 10:35 PM on August 21
posted by tllaya at 10:35 PM on August 21
I mean, you're all exactly right about the lyrics, but the song is definitely a bop. I've been dancing to it for over 30 years now. You can acknowledge the seriousness of the themes and still enjoy shaking your ass to Chad Cromwell's mad drum skills. Give me that kick ass rhythm with a dose of political reality and I'm good.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:55 PM on August 21 [1 favorite]
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:55 PM on August 21 [1 favorite]
Also Ari O'Neal shredding on Let's Go Crazy? Uh, yes please more. The DNC is owning the party vibe.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:11 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:11 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
I guess Keep on Rockin in the Free World could have as big a disconnect as Born in the USA - except in this context it matches perfectly, brilliantly. The verses illustrate sharply and graphically the theme of inequality and injustice while the chorus is about freedom and joy, not to mention being catchy. (Yes, I know the chorus is at least partly sarcastic, but like Springsteen's song, it also still has underlying hope and pride in the country despite all of the terrible wrongs listed.)
posted by blue shadows at 11:57 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
posted by blue shadows at 11:57 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
The DNC is owning the party vibe.
All 50 States’ DNC Roll Calls, Ranked by Vibe
posted by 1970s Antihero at 3:13 AM on August 22 [14 favorites]
All 50 States’ DNC Roll Calls, Ranked by Vibe
posted by 1970s Antihero at 3:13 AM on August 22 [14 favorites]
All 50 States’ DNC Roll Calls, Ranked by Vibe
They give my birth state flak for picking a song by someone from Michigan, but the most popular dude from my state was Michael Bolton and that really would have sucked.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:31 AM on August 22 [6 favorites]
They give my birth state flak for picking a song by someone from Michigan, but the most popular dude from my state was Michael Bolton and that really would have sucked.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:31 AM on August 22 [6 favorites]
Also belatedly re "Rockin' In The Free World":
For what it's worth, I think the lyrics are perfectly on point for the occasion. They speak to finding joy in the midst of chaos and hypocrisy.
I always found that exhortation to "keep on rockin' in the free world" to be a sort of tongue-in-cheek and cynical thing, akin to that old joke "but other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?" But Neil Young gave his approval before they played it, which is more important than all our armchair literary analysis anyway.
(I actually once read the play Lincoln was watching that night he was assassinated. It sucks - which means poor Mrs. Lincoln didn't even have THAT going for her.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:09 AM on August 22 [4 favorites]
For what it's worth, I think the lyrics are perfectly on point for the occasion. They speak to finding joy in the midst of chaos and hypocrisy.
I always found that exhortation to "keep on rockin' in the free world" to be a sort of tongue-in-cheek and cynical thing, akin to that old joke "but other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?" But Neil Young gave his approval before they played it, which is more important than all our armchair literary analysis anyway.
(I actually once read the play Lincoln was watching that night he was assassinated. It sucks - which means poor Mrs. Lincoln didn't even have THAT going for her.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:09 AM on August 22 [4 favorites]
Hey, uh... Oprah is a pretty dang great communicator.
She's had some practice.
Its 4 o'clock where's everybody gone?
Get tuned in - Oprah's on.
posted by Nanukthedog at 6:23 AM on August 22 [5 favorites]
She's had some practice.
Its 4 o'clock where's everybody gone?
Get tuned in - Oprah's on.
posted by Nanukthedog at 6:23 AM on August 22 [5 favorites]
I'm finding myself really surprised with my reaction to seeing a middle aged white guy that's responsible, who cares for his family and community with decency, and just acts like a normal grown-up for all the world to see.
How refreshing is that? And how twisted has that demographic become that he comes across as a rock star for being the boring old white dude he is?
posted by 2N2222 at 6:30 AM on August 22 [32 favorites]
How refreshing is that? And how twisted has that demographic become that he comes across as a rock star for being the boring old white dude he is?
posted by 2N2222 at 6:30 AM on August 22 [32 favorites]
Oprah has a whole lotta vile bullshit she's unleashed on the world that she has to answer for. I'll consider this appearance a down payment on amends.
posted by 2N2222 at 6:33 AM on August 22 [31 favorites]
posted by 2N2222 at 6:33 AM on August 22 [31 favorites]
Uncommitted delegates hold sit-in after Dem convention blocks Palestinian speakers
posted by Captaintripps at 7:16 AM on August 22 [19 favorites]
posted by Captaintripps at 7:16 AM on August 22 [19 favorites]
All 50 States’ DNC Roll Calls, Ranked by Vibe
27. Vermont — “Stick Season” by Noah Kahan
Very funny to have a song with the line “I’m mean because I grew up in New England” represent your state on the national stage.
That line is from Homesick, not Stick Season.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:29 AM on August 22 [5 favorites]
27. Vermont — “Stick Season” by Noah Kahan
Very funny to have a song with the line “I’m mean because I grew up in New England” represent your state on the national stage.
That line is from Homesick, not Stick Season.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:29 AM on August 22 [5 favorites]
Shout out to Governor Maura Healey for wearing sneakers at the DNC Democratic women governors panel discussion. So GREAT to see woman in power wearing normal, healthy, footwear!
I have to return to office but now Chucks are going to be my normal business attire.
https://www.wbez.org/culture-the-arts/2024/08/21/veeps-julia-louis-dreyfus-democratic-women-governors-talk-politics-abortion-kamala
posted by halehale at 8:45 AM on August 22 [10 favorites]
I have to return to office but now Chucks are going to be my normal business attire.
https://www.wbez.org/culture-the-arts/2024/08/21/veeps-julia-louis-dreyfus-democratic-women-governors-talk-politics-abortion-kamala
posted by halehale at 8:45 AM on August 22 [10 favorites]
but the most popular dude from my state was Michael Bolton and that really would have sucked
Wait. Do you not know "Jack Sparrow?" Or his Super Sexy Valentine's Day Special? I think he's a pretty cool guy these days. Even if Michael Bolton really was right.
posted by Snowishberlin at 8:51 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
Wait. Do you not know "Jack Sparrow?" Or his Super Sexy Valentine's Day Special? I think he's a pretty cool guy these days. Even if Michael Bolton really was right.
posted by Snowishberlin at 8:51 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
Uncommitted delegates hold sit-in after Dem convention blocks Palestinian speakers
The sit-in demonstrators have a simple, reasonable demand, it seems to me:
A group of delegates at the Democratic National Convention started a sit-in protest outside the convention hall Wednesday night, saying they will stay put until the Kamala Harris campaign allows a Palestinian to speak on the main stage in Chicago. “It is unacceptable for a Palestinian person to not be accepted on stage,” said Abbas Alawieh, a Michigan delegate...
On Wednesday night, the convention featured a speech by Jonathan Dekel-Chen, whose son Sagui is a hostage in Gaza. "The time is long past due to end this war," Dekel-Chen said in an interview with USA TODAY.
But no Palestinian-American was permitted to make the same case. Alawieh said that the group of uncommitted delegates “strongly supports” Israeli families on the convention program, but he criticized the Democratic Party for not showing that Palestinian and Israeli lives were of equal value.
posted by mediareport at 8:52 AM on August 22 [24 favorites]
The sit-in demonstrators have a simple, reasonable demand, it seems to me:
A group of delegates at the Democratic National Convention started a sit-in protest outside the convention hall Wednesday night, saying they will stay put until the Kamala Harris campaign allows a Palestinian to speak on the main stage in Chicago. “It is unacceptable for a Palestinian person to not be accepted on stage,” said Abbas Alawieh, a Michigan delegate...
On Wednesday night, the convention featured a speech by Jonathan Dekel-Chen, whose son Sagui is a hostage in Gaza. "The time is long past due to end this war," Dekel-Chen said in an interview with USA TODAY.
But no Palestinian-American was permitted to make the same case. Alawieh said that the group of uncommitted delegates “strongly supports” Israeli families on the convention program, but he criticized the Democratic Party for not showing that Palestinian and Israeli lives were of equal value.
posted by mediareport at 8:52 AM on August 22 [24 favorites]
Another thought about the walk-on/walk-off music: Would it needle the RNC and MAGAts and them if, every time one of these songs was played it was announced that they had legal permission to play it? Like, hammer home the law-abiding and respectful aspect of the DNC? Or maybe dig it in that the DNC COULD get permission while they couldn't?
Isn't it weird that they can't even get permission to play basic pop music at their party?
posted by Snowishberlin at 8:59 AM on August 22 [6 favorites]
Isn't it weird that they can't even get permission to play basic pop music at their party?
posted by Snowishberlin at 8:59 AM on August 22 [6 favorites]
DNC Democratic women governors panel discussion
posted by kirkaracha at 9:03 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 9:03 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
The sit-in demonstrators have a simple, reasonable demand, it seems to me
Hard agree, I am glad that the word "ceasefire" is now coming out of the mouths of multiple speakers, but it would mean a whole lot more to see them give the podium to a Palestinian.
posted by jordemort at 9:09 AM on August 22 [11 favorites]
Hard agree, I am glad that the word "ceasefire" is now coming out of the mouths of multiple speakers, but it would mean a whole lot more to see them give the podium to a Palestinian.
posted by jordemort at 9:09 AM on August 22 [11 favorites]
'Hotties for Harris is where the DNC gets horny' (NY Mag's Intelligencer via archive.is)
Content creators and influencers gathered in a warehouse about halfway between the United Center and the heart of downtown where they danced under flashing GIFs of Kamala Harris dancing. Arrayed all around were memes about the Democratic ticket, all focused on abortion rights: free condoms emblazoned with messages like “Fuck Project 2025,” signs with slogans like “Trump Vance Sex Ends” and “Tim Waltz Got Me Laid.”posted by box at 9:16 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
but it would mean a whole lot more to see them give the podium to a Palestinian
There might even be a Palestinian-American House member available to do so.
posted by Captaintripps at 9:18 AM on August 22 [14 favorites]
There might even be a Palestinian-American House member available to do so.
posted by Captaintripps at 9:18 AM on August 22 [14 favorites]
The sit-in demonstrators have a simple, reasonable demand, it seems to me:
Yes, and as I recently posted in the Gaza-US thread, the main candidate for that currently being advocated for is Georgia State Rep Ruwa Romman, who tweeted yesterday: "My speech urged us to unite behind Harris, criticized Trump, and spoke about the promise of this moment. The only reason we’re doing this is to save the soul of our party and prevent bad actors from using our pain in an ongoing voter suppression campaign." That's the message that the DNC is so afraid of, apparently. As she also put it: "I’ve had some pretty crushing days, but to be honest today took the cake. I do not understand how there’s room for an anti choice Republican but not me in our party. I need someone to explain to me what to do now."
posted by coffeecat at 9:21 AM on August 22 [27 favorites]
Yes, and as I recently posted in the Gaza-US thread, the main candidate for that currently being advocated for is Georgia State Rep Ruwa Romman, who tweeted yesterday: "My speech urged us to unite behind Harris, criticized Trump, and spoke about the promise of this moment. The only reason we’re doing this is to save the soul of our party and prevent bad actors from using our pain in an ongoing voter suppression campaign." That's the message that the DNC is so afraid of, apparently. As she also put it: "I’ve had some pretty crushing days, but to be honest today took the cake. I do not understand how there’s room for an anti choice Republican but not me in our party. I need someone to explain to me what to do now."
posted by coffeecat at 9:21 AM on August 22 [27 favorites]
Would have help had they not characterized themselves as "uncommitted delegates". If they're not committed to endorsing the candidate, what's the point of giving them the podium? Next, you'll be telling me that Jill Stein and Cornel West deserve a spot to hash out their grievances, too. People need to get real.
posted by 2N2222 at 9:23 AM on August 22 [7 favorites]
posted by 2N2222 at 9:23 AM on August 22 [7 favorites]
@coffeecat that seems totally reasonable. I was unaware of her, so thank you for making me hip.
posted by Captaintripps at 9:29 AM on August 22 [5 favorites]
posted by Captaintripps at 9:29 AM on August 22 [5 favorites]
Is there an NPR (or anywhere else) video recap post for day 3? I haven't found one yet.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:43 AM on August 22 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:43 AM on August 22 [1 favorite]
Personally, I'm happy to see someone like the Mesa mayor and Stephanie Grisham step publicly and loudly away from their party and stand on our stage. I'm not saying the criticisms are wrong, 'cause they're not and I'm not saying everyone should feel like I do because we're all different with different lived experiences. It just feels like a turning point in the discourse. I have people in my life who are unhappy at how far their party has gotten from their values, for whom seeing other GOPers put people and country before party loyalty is going to make a difference, and part of that is that we're platforming these voices. Do I think it's a little disingenuous, and, if I'm completely honest, a little sus at this late stage? Sure, but like Sam Seaborn once said, "I tell you what, let's forget the fact that you're coming a little late to the party and embrace the fact that you showed up at all."
I don't expect much agreement, but there's opportunity to peel folks away from the herd and I'm glad it's being taken.
posted by ApathyGirl at 9:51 AM on August 22 [13 favorites]
I don't expect much agreement, but there's opportunity to peel folks away from the herd and I'm glad it's being taken.
posted by ApathyGirl at 9:51 AM on August 22 [13 favorites]
Would have help had they not characterized themselves as "uncommitted delegates"If they're not committed to endorsing the candidate, what's the point of giving them the podium?
"Uncommitted delegates" is what they are. When the Democrats held their pro forma primary with no real opposition, some voters refused to commit to supporting Biden. These are the representatives they sent to the convention.
At the time, many were critical of decision to support a vote of "uncommitted", saying it was useless theater or (somehow) an effort to support Donald Trump. What it did instead was send representatives of those too disgusted by Biden's crimes to support him to the DNC.
Harris wasn't even on the radar yet, and the voices opposing the uncommitted vote were also opposed to having a real primary and said Biden stepping down was impossible. So the context has changed quite a bit since then.
The reason to give them the podium is that they are delegates selected by primary voters. Though it might be forgotten with Lil Jon and Oprah in attendance, the convention is nominally about selecting a candidate and voicing the opinions of the people you represent, not kissing the ring of the frontrunner.
posted by pattern juggler at 9:51 AM on August 22 [20 favorites]
"Uncommitted delegates" is what they are. When the Democrats held their pro forma primary with no real opposition, some voters refused to commit to supporting Biden. These are the representatives they sent to the convention.
At the time, many were critical of decision to support a vote of "uncommitted", saying it was useless theater or (somehow) an effort to support Donald Trump. What it did instead was send representatives of those too disgusted by Biden's crimes to support him to the DNC.
Harris wasn't even on the radar yet, and the voices opposing the uncommitted vote were also opposed to having a real primary and said Biden stepping down was impossible. So the context has changed quite a bit since then.
The reason to give them the podium is that they are delegates selected by primary voters. Though it might be forgotten with Lil Jon and Oprah in attendance, the convention is nominally about selecting a candidate and voicing the opinions of the people you represent, not kissing the ring of the frontrunner.
posted by pattern juggler at 9:51 AM on August 22 [20 favorites]
People need to get real.
"Uncommitted" was the name they chose during the primaries, when they did not vote to re-nominate President Biden, and a name change now would be confusing, but no one mistakes them for people from another party entirely like Stein and West. They are Democrats, and delegates, which means they have devoted a significant amount of time and effort to the party, and as such, have every right to contribute to the conversation about party priorities.
Also, please, please, can we all avoid reductive stuff like "get real"? It serves no purpose and is condescending and dismissive of other people's genuine positions.
On preview, what pattern juggler said.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 9:55 AM on August 22 [27 favorites]
"Uncommitted" was the name they chose during the primaries, when they did not vote to re-nominate President Biden, and a name change now would be confusing, but no one mistakes them for people from another party entirely like Stein and West. They are Democrats, and delegates, which means they have devoted a significant amount of time and effort to the party, and as such, have every right to contribute to the conversation about party priorities.
Also, please, please, can we all avoid reductive stuff like "get real"? It serves no purpose and is condescending and dismissive of other people's genuine positions.
On preview, what pattern juggler said.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 9:55 AM on August 22 [27 favorites]
Would have help had they not characterized themselves as "uncommitted delegates". If they're not committed to endorsing the candidate, what's the point of giving them the podium?
At the risk of being pedantic (because I dunno, maybe people forgot?) Uncommitted was a protest vote that started in Michigan but took places in other state primaries too. The leaders made very clear at the time the goal was not to say "We won't vote Democrat" (that would be those doing a third party vote) but to say that "our vote is contingent on changes being made to US-Israel policy." The goal was also to get enough votes to send anti-war delegates to the DNC. And that succeeded - that's why there are as many Palestinian American and anti-war delegates at the DNC this year. These are people who are quite committed to working within the system, and many of them are already part of the system (like Rep Romman). Again, Romman's speech, had it been allowed to happen, would have endorsed Harris. It also would have reminded attendees and made visible on a major stage that part of the Democratic tent includes Arab Americans, some of whom are Palestinian Americans, even while the US is sending bombs to kill their family members.
My only experience of being an authority figure is as a teacher. A novice move as a teacher is to avoid acknowledgment of any student complaint and just hope they magically go away. That's not to say the best strategy is to let student air every grievance they have in front of the whole class, but any experienced teacher will tell you that classroom community gets built by allowing a degree of disagreement and debate and not trying to hyper-control your classroom. I'd say a similar logic can be applied here - nobody is expecting those protesting to get on stage. They are expecting a Democratic Party loyalist, who also is Palestinian, and whose speech has been vetted, to been seen as part of the party.
posted by coffeecat at 9:58 AM on August 22 [21 favorites]
At the risk of being pedantic (because I dunno, maybe people forgot?) Uncommitted was a protest vote that started in Michigan but took places in other state primaries too. The leaders made very clear at the time the goal was not to say "We won't vote Democrat" (that would be those doing a third party vote) but to say that "our vote is contingent on changes being made to US-Israel policy." The goal was also to get enough votes to send anti-war delegates to the DNC. And that succeeded - that's why there are as many Palestinian American and anti-war delegates at the DNC this year. These are people who are quite committed to working within the system, and many of them are already part of the system (like Rep Romman). Again, Romman's speech, had it been allowed to happen, would have endorsed Harris. It also would have reminded attendees and made visible on a major stage that part of the Democratic tent includes Arab Americans, some of whom are Palestinian Americans, even while the US is sending bombs to kill their family members.
My only experience of being an authority figure is as a teacher. A novice move as a teacher is to avoid acknowledgment of any student complaint and just hope they magically go away. That's not to say the best strategy is to let student air every grievance they have in front of the whole class, but any experienced teacher will tell you that classroom community gets built by allowing a degree of disagreement and debate and not trying to hyper-control your classroom. I'd say a similar logic can be applied here - nobody is expecting those protesting to get on stage. They are expecting a Democratic Party loyalist, who also is Palestinian, and whose speech has been vetted, to been seen as part of the party.
posted by coffeecat at 9:58 AM on August 22 [21 favorites]
2N2222: And how twisted has that demographic become that he comes across as a rock star for being the boring old white dude he is?
I've seen variations on this quote going around: Tim Walz is the dad an entire generation wish they had instead of the one they lost to Fox News.
posted by clawsoon at 10:18 AM on August 22 [24 favorites]
I've seen variations on this quote going around: Tim Walz is the dad an entire generation wish they had instead of the one they lost to Fox News.
posted by clawsoon at 10:18 AM on August 22 [24 favorites]
Let a Palestinian Speak (NY Times gift link)
posted by Captaintripps at 10:29 AM on August 22 [8 favorites]
posted by Captaintripps at 10:29 AM on August 22 [8 favorites]
Personally, I'm happy to see someone like the Mesa mayor and Stephanie Grisham step publicly and loudly away from their party and stand on our stage...It just feels like a turning point in the discourse. I have people in my life who are unhappy at how far their party has gotten from their values, for whom seeing other GOPers put people and country before party loyalty is going to make a difference, and part of that is that we're platforming these voices.
Four Republicans spoke on the first night at the 2020 DNC. In 2016, the founder of Republican Women for Hillary (now Republican Women for Progress) was given a primetime slot on the most-watched closing night.
GOPers being invited to speak to the DNC this year isn't really a "turning point." It's also not clear how much of a difference that sort of gesture makes, whereas it's *very* clear that seeing a Palestinian-American speak from the DNC stage would make a huge difference to a very upset part of the Dem base.
posted by mediareport at 11:02 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
Four Republicans spoke on the first night at the 2020 DNC. In 2016, the founder of Republican Women for Hillary (now Republican Women for Progress) was given a primetime slot on the most-watched closing night.
GOPers being invited to speak to the DNC this year isn't really a "turning point." It's also not clear how much of a difference that sort of gesture makes, whereas it's *very* clear that seeing a Palestinian-American speak from the DNC stage would make a huge difference to a very upset part of the Dem base.
posted by mediareport at 11:02 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
Captaintripps, I’m not sure that link is loading right for me. Currently it goes to a list of a bunch of other takes on the convention, but I don’t see anything entitled “Let a Palestinian Speak”. Did NYT take it down, or is the link failing for me somehow?
posted by nat at 11:05 AM on August 22
posted by nat at 11:05 AM on August 22
They give my birth state flak for picking a song by someone from Michigan, but the most popular dude from my state was Michael Bolton and that really would have sucked.
My vote would have been for John Mayer's "Waiting on the World to Change." I'm not a great Mayer fan but that song (especially the lines about trusting television) would have had the right vibe, and he is solidly a native.
(Although--I was Tuesday years old when I learned that freaking Keith Richards lives here. I wouldn't have hated a Stones song.)
posted by dlugoczaj at 11:07 AM on August 22 [3 favorites]
My vote would have been for John Mayer's "Waiting on the World to Change." I'm not a great Mayer fan but that song (especially the lines about trusting television) would have had the right vibe, and he is solidly a native.
(Although--I was Tuesday years old when I learned that freaking Keith Richards lives here. I wouldn't have hated a Stones song.)
posted by dlugoczaj at 11:07 AM on August 22 [3 favorites]
Interesting round table on the environment [Democracy Now!] with panelists pointing out the deficiencies of Dems on climate change as well as a climate scientist (Michael Mann) doing a "but Trump is worse".
posted by mazola at 11:09 AM on August 22 [4 favorites]
posted by mazola at 11:09 AM on August 22 [4 favorites]
They surely could have taken the time Bill Clinton used and instead of platforming a harasser, they could have platformed a growing population segment with relevant needs.
I’m heavily pro-Harris, so my headcanon here is that’s it’s clueless convention staff from the old guard who made this choice, but I still think it’s a stupid choice.
posted by nat at 11:09 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
I’m heavily pro-Harris, so my headcanon here is that’s it’s clueless convention staff from the old guard who made this choice, but I still think it’s a stupid choice.
posted by nat at 11:09 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
nat, maybe this archive.is one will work for you.
posted by Captaintripps at 11:10 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
posted by Captaintripps at 11:10 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
Thanks! Yep that one works.
posted by nat at 11:11 AM on August 22 [1 favorite]
posted by nat at 11:11 AM on August 22 [1 favorite]
I don't think I said anything like what you're suggesting there, mediareport. I suppose you can extrapolate from me saying I'm happy to see Trumpers loudly turn away that that means I think those are the most important voices for Dems to platform and everyone else can go kick rocks.
Mods, if what I said is coming across that way, please delete my comment, and this one.
posted by ApathyGirl at 11:17 AM on August 22 [1 favorite]
Mods, if what I said is coming across that way, please delete my comment, and this one.
posted by ApathyGirl at 11:17 AM on August 22 [1 favorite]
Is there an NPR (or anywhere else) video recap post for day 3? I haven't found one yet.
PBS NewsHour: Highlights from night 3 of the 2024 DNC
posted by kirkaracha at 11:18 AM on August 22 [4 favorites]
PBS NewsHour: Highlights from night 3 of the 2024 DNC
posted by kirkaracha at 11:18 AM on August 22 [4 favorites]
jenfullmoon, NPR: Day 3 updates has summaries
NPR: Watch speeches from Tim Walz, Bill Clinton, Oprah and Stevie Wonder has embedded video
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:24 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
NPR: Watch speeches from Tim Walz, Bill Clinton, Oprah and Stevie Wonder has embedded video
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:24 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
ApathyGirl, I don't think anyone is saying that anti-Trump GOPers have zero place in the Democratic tent, but just that if the tent is big enough for them it should be big enough for a Palestinian American who has been working for over a decade doing on-the-ground organizing to turn to Georgia Blue and is a current State Rep.
posted by coffeecat at 11:24 AM on August 22 [38 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 11:24 AM on August 22 [38 favorites]
Police and FBI investigate maggot incident at DNC breakfast in Chicago (WGNtv, 8/21/2024, updated 8/22) Chicago police and the FBI are searching for the people responsible for putting maggots in food at a Democratic National Convention breakfast at the Fairmont Hotel. Law enforcement handling security for the DNC released the following statement Wednesday on the incident:
"Multiple unknown female offenders are alleged to have entered a building (200 block of North Columbus Drive) and began placing unknown objects onto tables containing food. The offenders are believed to have then left the area. One victim was treated and released on-scene. Along with CPD, FBI-Chicago is assisting in the investigation. No further information is available at this time." — DNC 2024 Joint Information Center
FBI probes insect attack on Democratic breakfast in Chicago (USA TODAY, 8/21/2024, updated 8/22) Chicago Police and the FBI are investigating if saboteurs placed bugs in a breakfast buffet prepared for delegates at the Democratic National Convention on Wednesday. One witness told USA TODAY the creatures appeared to be crickets while other reports suggested maggots. The incident took place at Fairmont Hotel, where delegates from Indiana, Minnesota, Ohio, Missouri and South Dakota are staying.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:27 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
"Multiple unknown female offenders are alleged to have entered a building (200 block of North Columbus Drive) and began placing unknown objects onto tables containing food. The offenders are believed to have then left the area. One victim was treated and released on-scene. Along with CPD, FBI-Chicago is assisting in the investigation. No further information is available at this time." — DNC 2024 Joint Information Center
FBI probes insect attack on Democratic breakfast in Chicago (USA TODAY, 8/21/2024, updated 8/22) Chicago Police and the FBI are investigating if saboteurs placed bugs in a breakfast buffet prepared for delegates at the Democratic National Convention on Wednesday. One witness told USA TODAY the creatures appeared to be crickets while other reports suggested maggots. The incident took place at Fairmont Hotel, where delegates from Indiana, Minnesota, Ohio, Missouri and South Dakota are staying.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:27 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
This election being about a cop vs. a felon and police unions overwhelmingly siding with the felon tells you everything you need to know about who the police really serve.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:28 AM on August 22 [29 favorites]
posted by tonycpsu at 11:28 AM on August 22 [29 favorites]
Is there an NPR (or anywhere else) video recap post for day 3? I haven't found one yet.
CSPAN has almost the entire day broken out with direct links to each speaker. Unfortunately it's missing the intro/interstitial videos between speakers but you can get those by scrolling through MSNBC's event-only stream (no talking heads). Here's a direct link to Gwen Walz's pre-recorded video introducing Tim which you absolutely should not miss.
I also have to link to MSNBC reporter Jacob Soboroff getting mobbed by the MN delegation acting in a very non-stereotypically Minnesotan way. The guy over Soboroff's right shoulder, leading the chant? Yeah that's St Paul mayor Melvin Carter. (See, we get excited about stuff other than hockey and fishing opener.)
posted by nathan_teske at 11:40 AM on August 22 [7 favorites]
CSPAN has almost the entire day broken out with direct links to each speaker. Unfortunately it's missing the intro/interstitial videos between speakers but you can get those by scrolling through MSNBC's event-only stream (no talking heads). Here's a direct link to Gwen Walz's pre-recorded video introducing Tim which you absolutely should not miss.
I also have to link to MSNBC reporter Jacob Soboroff getting mobbed by the MN delegation acting in a very non-stereotypically Minnesotan way. The guy over Soboroff's right shoulder, leading the chant? Yeah that's St Paul mayor Melvin Carter. (See, we get excited about stuff other than hockey and fishing opener.)
posted by nathan_teske at 11:40 AM on August 22 [7 favorites]
The insect thing feels like a mashup between “your mission is to plant bugs at the hotel” and “they didn’t send their best people.”
posted by notoriety public at 11:46 AM on August 22 [27 favorites]
posted by notoriety public at 11:46 AM on August 22 [27 favorites]
Anyway, we can now all read the 2min speech Rep. Romman would have given. (link to Mother Jones article that provides more context for those that want it)
My name is Ruwa Romman, and I’m honored to be the first Palestinian elected to public office in the great state of Georgia and the first Palestinian to ever speak at the Democratic National Convention. My story begins in a small village near Jerusalem, called Suba, where my dad’s family is from. My mom’s roots trace back to Al Khalil, or Hebron. My parents, born in Jordan, brought us to Georgia when I was eight, where I now live with my wonderful husband and our sweet pets.posted by coffeecat at 12:05 PM on August 22 [70 favorites]
Growing up, my grandfather and I shared a special bond. He was my partner in mischief—whether it was sneaking me sweets from the bodega or slipping a $20 into my pocket with that familiar wink and smile. He was my rock, but he passed away a few years ago, never seeing Suba or any part of Palestine again. Not a day goes by that I don’t miss him.
This past year has been especially hard. As we’ve been moral witnesses to the massacres in Gaza, I’ve thought of him, wondering if this was the pain he knew too well. When we watched Palestinians displaced from one end of the Gaza Strip to the other I wanted to ask him how he found the strength to walk all those miles decades ago and leave everything behind.
But in this pain, I’ve also witnessed something profound—a beautiful, multifaith, multiracial, and multigenerational coalition rising from despair within our Democratic Party. For 320 days, we’ve stood together, demanding to enforce our laws on friend and foe alike to reach a ceasefire, end the killing of Palestinians, free all the Israeli and Palestinian hostages, and to begin the difficult work of building a path to collective peace and safety. That’s why we are here—members of this Democratic Party committed to equal rights and dignity for all. What we do here echoes around the world.
They’ll say this is how it’s always been, that nothing can change. But remember Fannie Lou Hamer—shunned for her courage, yet she paved the way for an integrated Democratic Party. Her legacy lives on, and it’s her example we follow.
But we can’t do it alone. This historic moment is full of promise, but only if we stand together. Our party’s greatest strength has always been our ability to unite. Some see that as a weakness, but it’s time we flex that strength.
Let’s commit to each other, to electing Vice President Harris and defeating Donald Trump who uses my identity as a Palestinian as a slur. Let’s fight for the policies long overdue—from restoring access to abortions to ensuring a living wage, to demanding an end to reckless war and a ceasefire in Gaza. To those who doubt us, to the cynics and the naysayers, I say, yes we can—yes we can be a Democratic Party that prioritizes funding our schools and hospitals, not for endless wars. That fights for an America that belongs to all of us—Black, brown, and white, Jews and Palestinians, all of us, like my grandfather taught me, together.
Similar to the insect release at Netanyahu’s hotel.
posted by lostburner at 12:08 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
posted by lostburner at 12:08 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
Similar to the insect release at Netanyahu’s hotel.
Now there is something I can get behind.
posted by pattern juggler at 12:37 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
Now there is something I can get behind.
posted by pattern juggler at 12:37 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
Scaled down, at a breakfast buffet only; for July's Watergate Hotel incident, the video on Instagram "showed a large number of maggots, crickets and other bugs crawling around" & the post "claimed that the critters were released on multiple floors and that fire alarms were set off for over 30 minutes."
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:56 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:56 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
I love Tim Walz and think he's a great VP pick, but as a Vikings fan he could've taken us to Super Bowl and won.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:23 PM on August 22 [3 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 1:23 PM on August 22 [3 favorites]
Weirdo McBeardo tries turning on the "charm" at the donut shop, the workers don't want to be on film with him.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:29 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 1:29 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
This election being about a cop vs. a felon and police unions overwhelmingly siding with the felon tells you everything you need to know about who the police really serve.
So there's a willingness to try and break these corrupt institutions apart by any and all means necessary to safeguard the citizenry, right?
Right?
posted by Slackermagee at 1:30 PM on August 22 [10 favorites]
So there's a willingness to try and break these corrupt institutions apart by any and all means necessary to safeguard the citizenry, right?
Right?
posted by Slackermagee at 1:30 PM on August 22 [10 favorites]
Weirdo McBeardo tries turning on the "charm" at the donut shop
“I’m JD Vance. I’m running for vice president.”
“…ok”
posted by jeoc at 1:51 PM on August 22 [13 favorites]
“I’m JD Vance. I’m running for vice president.”
“…ok”
posted by jeoc at 1:51 PM on August 22 [13 favorites]
I love that JD Vance's idea of relating to people is asking about timelines. How long have you been here? And how long have you been here? Oh, and you sir or madam, how long have you been here? Is this an old donut shop? Could it be a new donut shop? Just give me some "cinnamon rolls or whatever makes sense." Watch this man relate!
posted by kensington314 at 1:55 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
posted by kensington314 at 1:55 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
Bill Clinton yesterday: "Since the end of the Cold War in 1989, America has created about 51 million new jobs...What’s the score? Democrats 50, Republicans 1."
Washington Post's fact-checker today: Well acktually, it's a negative 300,000 for the Republicans. (gift link)
posted by hydrophonic at 2:18 PM on August 22 [13 favorites]
Washington Post's fact-checker today: Well acktually, it's a negative 300,000 for the Republicans. (gift link)
posted by hydrophonic at 2:18 PM on August 22 [13 favorites]
Watch this man relate!
"I'm not sure how this donut-shop visit advances our goal of a Moldbug-inspired techno-monarchy, but I am a loyal soldier."
posted by clawsoon at 2:28 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
"I'm not sure how this donut-shop visit advances our goal of a Moldbug-inspired techno-monarchy, but I am a loyal soldier."
posted by clawsoon at 2:28 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
Watch this man relate!Right? Not a single follow up, like “how do you like it in this town,” “what do the regulars like to get here,” “hope you’re beating the heat,” or, “what’s the worst thing you have? I’ll give it to the press.”
posted by lostburner at 2:53 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]
"When is the last time you menstruated? Have you experienced any irregularities in your cycle? Do you have cats?"
posted by kensington314 at 2:55 PM on August 22 [42 favorites]
posted by kensington314 at 2:55 PM on August 22 [42 favorites]
What he really should have done is made sure the camerapeople moved and stopped filming the woman who clearly said she didn't consent to be filmed.
posted by trig at 3:28 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
posted by trig at 3:28 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
Not sure what his responsibility is there, but he did make clear that she should be cut out. Somebody decided to publish that video including the request and everything.
posted by lostburner at 3:31 PM on August 22
posted by lostburner at 3:31 PM on August 22
For the final night, the Convention just had the pledge of allegiance lead by a 6th grade girl, and I think Morgan Freeman is narrating the video they're showing. Whoever is producing this deserves an Emmy.
posted by mikelieman at 3:41 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 3:41 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
Not sure what his responsibility is there, but he did make clear that she should be cut out. Somebody decided to publish that video including the request and everything.
Yeah, I'm not sure but given that it was C-Span, maybe it was live so there wasn't a separate decision to publish (without even pixelating her). Either way, "leadership" and "caring" include things like going beyond your narrow responsibility to make sure everyone's okay. (And PR savvy means recognizing that...)
posted by trig at 3:45 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I'm not sure but given that it was C-Span, maybe it was live so there wasn't a separate decision to publish (without even pixelating her). Either way, "leadership" and "caring" include things like going beyond your narrow responsibility to make sure everyone's okay. (And PR savvy means recognizing that...)
posted by trig at 3:45 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
The charisma is off the charts!
posted by kirkaracha at 4:10 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
posted by kirkaracha at 4:10 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
Definitely had a "papers please" vibe.
"How long you been here?"
"Okay, how about you?"
posted by monospace at 4:16 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
"How long you been here?"
"Okay, how about you?"
posted by monospace at 4:16 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
I watched the roll call, watched some of the other speeches on my own time and I’m streaming it tonight because I’m working anyway. My brain over the last several days keeps returning to the same question to those who are complaining that she is short on policy - are they even listening to the speeches? Because I see a definite, unified theme. I don’t know. I was truly heartbroken in 2016 and there was policy out the wazoo that year. I’ve had moments this week where I feel like you can’t eff’ing win and I should not put my energy to hoping.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:19 PM on August 22 [11 favorites]
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:19 PM on August 22 [11 favorites]
Tonight's convention features DJ Metro from Chicago. I think going forward, all political events need a DJ.
posted by mikelieman at 4:21 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 4:21 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
Rep Romman's speech would have been perfect, so thoughtfully written. Maybe they didn't know how to fit it in. Maybe they'll still surprise us?
I saw a short interview with the family of the Israeli American hostage who was given time to speak yesterday, and they were warned the reaction from the crowd might be neutral, or negative. But in fact the crowd gave them a kind welcome, and chanted, "Bring them home".
posted by Glinn at 4:24 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
I saw a short interview with the family of the Israeli American hostage who was given time to speak yesterday, and they were warned the reaction from the crowd might be neutral, or negative. But in fact the crowd gave them a kind welcome, and chanted, "Bring them home".
posted by Glinn at 4:24 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
J.D. Vance ordering donuts set to the Veep credits: Twitter link
posted by coffeecat at 4:24 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 4:24 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
As an Pennsylvanian, I’m appreciating the Bob, Bob, Bob chants.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:29 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:29 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
Liz Warren!
posted by mikelieman at 4:32 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 4:32 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
I was wearing a Warren t-shirt yesterday. :D
posted by Glinn at 4:34 PM on August 22 [6 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 4:34 PM on August 22 [6 favorites]
Liz Warren!
I KNOW!!! Squeeeeeeee.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:34 PM on August 22 [10 favorites]
I KNOW!!! Squeeeeeeee.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:34 PM on August 22 [10 favorites]
fact check on liz warren: donald trump also does not worry about bills from his lawyers, because he will not pay them
posted by i used to be someone else at 4:34 PM on August 22 [12 favorites]
posted by i used to be someone else at 4:34 PM on August 22 [12 favorites]
I hope she runs the Senate next term.
posted by Glinn at 4:35 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 4:35 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]
I wouldn't trust them to move my couch.
posted by Glinn at 4:36 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 4:36 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
I hope she runs the Senate next term.
from your keyboard to God's ears
posted by kensington314 at 4:37 PM on August 22 [10 favorites]
from your keyboard to God's ears
posted by kensington314 at 4:37 PM on August 22 [10 favorites]
A lot of women in white this evening.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:38 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:38 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
(Unless she wants to cap her career with head of Dept of Education)
posted by Glinn at 4:38 PM on August 22
posted by Glinn at 4:38 PM on August 22
Amended. A lot of PEOPLE in white this evening.
(Are they sharing that giant Project 2025 book???)
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:42 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
(Are they sharing that giant Project 2025 book???)
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:42 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
(Are they sharing that giant Project 2025 book???)
Yes. It's been a running segment every night.
posted by mikelieman at 4:45 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
Yes. It's been a running segment every night.
posted by mikelieman at 4:45 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
I was wearing a Warren t-shirt yesterday. :D
Me too!
(Unless she wants to cap her career with head of Dept of Education)
I think you mean Treasury. :)
posted by Gadarene at 4:48 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
Me too!
(Unless she wants to cap her career with head of Dept of Education)
I think you mean Treasury. :)
posted by Gadarene at 4:48 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
Are they sharing that giant Project 2025 book???)
Yes. It's been a running segment every night.
I appreciate the fiscal conservatism.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:49 PM on August 22 [3 favorites]
Yes. It's been a running segment every night.
I appreciate the fiscal conservatism.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 4:49 PM on August 22 [3 favorites]
Do not give an inch to pretenders who wrap themselves in the flag but spit in the face of freedoms it represents.
(Michigan rep Elissa Slotkin, national security expert under Bush and Obama, running for Senate)
posted by Glinn at 4:51 PM on August 22 [12 favorites]
(Michigan rep Elissa Slotkin, national security expert under Bush and Obama, running for Senate)
posted by Glinn at 4:51 PM on August 22 [12 favorites]
Do not give an inch to pretenders who wrap themselves in the flag but spit in the face of freedoms it represents.
This is a pretty fucking hilariously ironic thing for an ex-CIA person to say, tbh.
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:55 PM on August 22 [11 favorites]
This is a pretty fucking hilariously ironic thing for an ex-CIA person to say, tbh.
posted by adrienneleigh at 4:55 PM on August 22 [11 favorites]
Well I mean, ok. Haven't they also done some decent things and some of the people may be decent people, like Elissa seems to be? Look, I'm sorely under-educated in this area. I thought it was a good speech.
posted by Glinn at 4:58 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 4:58 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]
Democrats Scrub Death Penalty Opposition From Campaign Platform (HuffPo)
However, as his term winds down, Biden has little to show for the party’s promise to abolish capital punishment. On Monday, the Democrats approved their 2024 platform, which includes no mention of the death penalty. This year’s platform marks the first time since 2004 the platform has not mentioned the death penalty (the 2008 and 2012 platforms called for making the punishment less arbitrary).posted by adrienneleigh at 5:04 PM on August 22 [25 favorites]
…
In addition to dropping any mention of the death penalty, this year’s Democratic platform noticeably backs away from several criminal justice reforms the party embraced in 2020, when the police killing of George Floyd prompted nationwide protests against police brutality. The criminal justice section of the 2020 platform opens by declaring that the system is “failing” to keep people safe and deliver justice. It contrasts the promise of America as the “land of the free” with the reality that the U.S. has the highest rate of incarceration in the world and calls for “dramatically” reducing the number of people held in prisons and jails.
The 2020 platform includes support for several specific policies that are either absent from the 2024 platform or have been considerably toned down, including: ending life-without-parole sentences for people under 21, banning police from using chokeholds, decriminalizing cannabis, eliminating cash bail and repealing mandatory minimum sentences.
Yusef Salaam was pretty amazing.
posted by May Kasahara at 5:08 PM on August 22 [3 favorites]
posted by May Kasahara at 5:08 PM on August 22 [3 favorites]
So it seems like it's going to happen. Beyonce performing tonight at the DNC.
posted by cashman at 5:09 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
posted by cashman at 5:09 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
Of course she is I called it days ago!
posted by Glinn at 5:11 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 5:11 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
Google doc of every elected politician/official calling for a Palestinian to speak.
posted by coffeecat at 5:22 PM on August 22 [15 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 5:22 PM on August 22 [15 favorites]
Warren liked that line so much it's in a post-speech fundraising email: Groceries. Gas. Housing. Healthcare. Taxes. Abortion. Trust Donald Trump and JD Vance to look out for your family? Shoot, I wouldn’t trust those guys to move my couch.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:32 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:32 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
Well the couch jokes were fun but Elizabeth Warren showed up.
posted by BeginAgain at 5:41 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
posted by BeginAgain at 5:41 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
Comma + La
posted by mikelieman at 6:11 PM on August 22 [6 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 6:11 PM on August 22 [6 favorites]
OK, now they HAVE to do the shirt, right? Right?!
(That was adorable.)
posted by timestep at 6:12 PM on August 22
(That was adorable.)
posted by timestep at 6:12 PM on August 22
Democrats Scrub Death Penalty Opposition From Campaign Platform
Between this and the various Republicans given airtime over a single person uncommitted delegate wanting to talk about Gaza, are they trying to triangulate again and become the ur-party of center America?
What is the point of this? Do they really think that republicans will be voting for Harris in noticeable numbers?
posted by Slackermagee at 6:17 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
Between this and the various Republicans given airtime over a single person uncommitted delegate wanting to talk about Gaza, are they trying to triangulate again and become the ur-party of center America?
What is the point of this? Do they really think that republicans will be voting for Harris in noticeable numbers?
posted by Slackermagee at 6:17 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
D.L. Hughley with an excellent speech, punctuated with Republicans For Harris showing TFG at long last what it feels like to he left for a younger woman. Chef's kiss.
posted by riverlife at 6:20 PM on August 22 [6 favorites]
posted by riverlife at 6:20 PM on August 22 [6 favorites]
A lot of people needed to see D.L. Hughley say that (the part about believing lies about Kamala's record, and repeating them to other people). I was planning on doing a barber shop tour in the next few months and hopefully that helps.
posted by cashman at 6:21 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
posted by cashman at 6:21 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
I didn't see this mentioned above, but forgive me if I missed it: The Tennessee Three (state legislators who were the subject of retaliatory measures due to their support for gun control following the Covenant school shooting) were supposed to have a primetime slot on the main stage tonight. The Tennessean is reporting that they've been bumped for a mystery guest.
In unrelated news, my brother-in-law sent me flight tracking info that shows Taylor Swift's plane is in Chicago.
I was really looking forward to seeing the T3 speak, but now my ten-year-old is willingly watching the convention with me in hopes of spotting Tay Tay, so I guess that's okay too.
posted by timestep at 6:25 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
In unrelated news, my brother-in-law sent me flight tracking info that shows Taylor Swift's plane is in Chicago.
I was really looking forward to seeing the T3 speak, but now my ten-year-old is willingly watching the convention with me in hopes of spotting Tay Tay, so I guess that's okay too.
posted by timestep at 6:25 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
A most excellent suggestion for the surprise guest.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 6:27 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 6:27 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
I think the strategy is more to demoralize Republicans and convince them to stay home, rather than vote for Trump. If they do vote for Harris, great, but every vote matters, and one less vote for Trump is one less to have to counter.
posted by rikschell at 6:27 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 6:27 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
Mandy Patinkin continues to be a real one: Palestinian American voices deserve to be heard at the DNC. Still time to make the right decision. We hope they do.
posted by cendawanita at 6:30 PM on August 22 [20 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 6:30 PM on August 22 [20 favorites]
I hope so too. They've got a solid 3 hours of programming left most likely, aside from an hour for Kamala.
posted by cashman at 6:31 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 6:31 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
Beyonce news is all but solidified at this point. This will hopefully be so good.
posted by cashman at 6:32 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
posted by cashman at 6:32 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
Well, P!nk is doing an acoustic number right now...
posted by mikelieman at 6:36 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
posted by mikelieman at 6:36 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
who are the rest of the folks up there?
The young girl is her daughter.
posted by nathan_teske at 6:40 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
The young girl is her daughter.
posted by nathan_teske at 6:40 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
Great to see Gabby, but boy . . . really glad they didn't go with Mark Kelly as the VP pick . . .
and Panetta?!?!?
posted by pt68 at 6:45 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
and Panetta?!?!?
posted by pt68 at 6:45 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
The drum team was great, any one know who there are? I didn't see them identified on the speaker list. It almost seemed like that was the spot the special guest was supposed to be. Was Steph Curry expected to talk longer?
posted by beaning at 7:05 PM on August 22
posted by beaning at 7:05 PM on August 22
I'm really hoping the mystery speaker is a Palestinian lawmaker. I don't know why Panetta got a spot.
posted by being_quiet at 7:07 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]
posted by being_quiet at 7:07 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]
Seems this is the night they expect the highest probability of Fox viewership to see what the fuss is about.
posted by droomoord at 7:09 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
posted by droomoord at 7:09 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
A friend on social media just described the vibe of the DNC as "omelascore" and i think that's the most accurate one-word summation i've heard yet.
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:15 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:15 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
Republican Adam Kinzinger with a tremendous appeal to patriotism, democracy, freedom, and decency. It may be a teeny fraction of Republicans but it's heartening to see a sane Republican not willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater the oligarchs and fascists have attempted to drown the nation in. A low low bar, to be sure.
posted by riverlife at 7:19 PM on August 22 [19 favorites]
posted by riverlife at 7:19 PM on August 22 [19 favorites]
Meanwhile, committed Democratic congresspeople who happen to be Palestinian have to give their speeches on the front steps. Really shows who's in the big tent and who isn't, doesn't it?
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:24 PM on August 22 [20 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:24 PM on August 22 [20 favorites]
Hopefully if the Democrats win this year, the Republican party can slowly die off in the next few years, the Democrats absorb the leftovers, and a true progressive party emerges.
posted by cashman at 7:30 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:30 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]
I'm not crying from joy, you're crying from joy.
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 7:32 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 7:32 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
Can't wait to do everything I can to elect the first black female president in the history of the United States of America and make my momma proud.
posted by cashman at 7:33 PM on August 22 [26 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:33 PM on August 22 [26 favorites]
Chris Swanson, the Republican Michigan sheriff who spoke tonight, has deep ties to Operation Rescue and other extremely sketchy/rapey organizations.
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:36 PM on August 22 [6 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 7:36 PM on August 22 [6 favorites]
friend on social media just described the vibe of the DNC as "omelascore" and i think that's the most accurate one-word summation i've heard yet.
Daaaaaaaaaaaamn but yes.
posted by corb at 7:36 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
Daaaaaaaaaaaamn but yes.
posted by corb at 7:36 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
I've been watching speeches piecemeal, but appreciate what seems like a new emphasis on neighbors and neighborliness. I can't remember where I first saw that, it's been years now, but I've found it a useful way to think about generally any program that isn't intended for me personally. Of course I want my neighbors housed, fed, educated, with good jobs - totally selfishly, I have to live with 'em. (I don't come from places where people really talked to neighbors so close-knit neighborhoods seem kinda wild.)
Harris just referenced 'an injury to one is an injury to all', that's neat.
posted by mersen at 7:44 PM on August 22 [14 favorites]
Harris just referenced 'an injury to one is an injury to all', that's neat.
posted by mersen at 7:44 PM on August 22 [14 favorites]
I’m about a quarter into Kamala’s book and these stories are familiar but I’m happy to hear them and they are worth sharing.
posted by girlmightlive at 7:46 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
posted by girlmightlive at 7:46 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
Her stories and background are definitely worth sharing over and over again. It's like that xckd cartoon. There are so many people who aren't laser focused on politics and don't know about her mother, her family, her good deeds, and her beliefs and aims. And a ton of people have gotten misinformation about her and every time people learn about the good she's done and how many good things she's been involved in, it's a good thing.
posted by cashman at 7:49 PM on August 22 [14 favorites]
posted by cashman at 7:49 PM on August 22 [14 favorites]
If Tim Walz is my dream Cool Grandpa, then Elizabeth Warren is my dream Cool Aunt.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:54 PM on August 22 [11 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 7:54 PM on August 22 [11 favorites]
I lost my mother to cancer this month. Every time Kamala talks about going through that with her own mom I get teary.
posted by girlmightlive at 7:57 PM on August 22 [19 favorites]
posted by girlmightlive at 7:57 PM on August 22 [19 favorites]
I lost my mom to cancer 26 years ago, and it still means so much hear someone actually talk about now.
posted by mollweide at 8:01 PM on August 22 [13 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 8:01 PM on August 22 [13 favorites]
friend on social media just described the vibe of the DNC as "omelascore" and i think that's the most accurate one-word summation i've heard yet.
Missing the bass/e: Sharif Koddous: Uncommitted delegates are waking through the convention arm in arm trying to enter the floor to take their seats and being rejected
Saul: Ceasefire delegates are calmly singing “ceasefire now” in the hallway of the DNC
posted by cendawanita at 8:02 PM on August 22 [3 favorites]
Missing the bass/e: Sharif Koddous: Uncommitted delegates are waking through the convention arm in arm trying to enter the floor to take their seats and being rejected
Saul: Ceasefire delegates are calmly singing “ceasefire now” in the hallway of the DNC
posted by cendawanita at 8:02 PM on August 22 [3 favorites]
Correction to earlier post: Operation Underground Railroad, not Operation Rescue.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:03 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:03 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
There's a lot I don't agree with her on, but I'm going to follow Michelle Obama's advice and vote and volunteer and fight for her to win, and support her administration when fascist Republicans try to tear her down.
posted by rikschell at 8:04 PM on August 22 [15 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 8:04 PM on August 22 [15 favorites]
On my feed, Harris is just starting the I/P section of her speech and by gosh I have the same feeling like when I saw that guy walking the tightrope across the Twin Towers.
posted by mhum at 8:05 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
posted by mhum at 8:05 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
that guy walking the tightrope across the Twin Towers.
Philippe Petit
posted by mikelieman at 8:06 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
Philippe Petit
posted by mikelieman at 8:06 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
¡¡SHE SE PUEDE!!
posted by riverlife at 8:07 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
posted by riverlife at 8:07 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
She's trying to keep everyone happy, which is usually a good way of pissing everyone off. But she did speak to the horror in Gaza, briefly, and after first pledging unequivocal military support to Israel.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:07 PM on August 22
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:07 PM on August 22
Why so many pictures of Providence mayor Brett Smiley?
posted by wenestvedt at 8:08 PM on August 22
posted by wenestvedt at 8:08 PM on August 22
She definitely wants to have it both ways. But she did make sure to distinguish between Hamas and the Palestinian people, who have a right to self-determination.
posted by rikschell at 8:09 PM on August 22 [26 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 8:09 PM on August 22 [26 favorites]
Well that was farther than I thought she would go.
posted by cooker girl at 8:09 PM on August 22 [21 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 8:09 PM on August 22 [21 favorites]
And that's what you guys can do in *checks calendar* wow, just about a month. I believe in you all.
posted by cendawanita at 8:13 PM on August 22 [11 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 8:13 PM on August 22 [11 favorites]
pledging unequivocal military support to Israel
Welp.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:13 PM on August 22 [6 favorites]
Welp.
posted by adrienneleigh at 8:13 PM on August 22 [6 favorites]
Sending love to mollweide and anyone else who needs it.
But it’s possible this is the majority of Americans’ introduction to Kamala so in that context this speech makes sense.
posted by girlmightlive at 8:13 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
But it’s possible this is the majority of Americans’ introduction to Kamala so in that context this speech makes sense.
posted by girlmightlive at 8:13 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
Harris had the most strain on her face of the speech when she went through the 4 or so points on the I/P conflict
posted by JoeXIII007 at 8:16 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]
posted by JoeXIII007 at 8:16 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]
pledging unequivocal military support to Israel
That's not what she said. She pledged to make sure Israel has the means to defend itself. There is a lot of wiggle room in there.
posted by AndrewInDC at 8:17 PM on August 22 [37 favorites]
That's not what she said. She pledged to make sure Israel has the means to defend itself. There is a lot of wiggle room in there.
posted by AndrewInDC at 8:17 PM on August 22 [37 favorites]
So.....no Beyonce, then?
posted by wenestvedt at 8:18 PM on August 22 [6 favorites]
posted by wenestvedt at 8:18 PM on August 22 [6 favorites]
omelascore
This is smug and lazy.
Every one of us enables a thousand tiny sufferings - from the children who assemble your smartphone to the humans who spend their bodies to pick your food. Not presenting an opportunity to speak at a convention is another in this class of sufferings, but it's a choice with real reasons to support it (the careful balance of demographic and electoral assumptions of cost versus benefit in a real election with still very close margins).
I might not find the reasons adequate, but characterizing those who make the choice you don't like as mindless utopians who can be blithe about suffering with no connection between their actions and magical prosperity is both imprecise and reductive.
They might be wrong. The strategy may backfire. But they aren't casual or thoughtless about the tactical choice or the moral calculus. It's shitty to treat a hard choice you don't like as if it makes those making the choice obviously morally bankrupt fictional villains.
If Kamala loses it is worse by far. Pretending that the root of the calculus isn't messy and complicated is deeply misguided and repellently smug.
posted by Lenie Clarke at 8:18 PM on August 22 [77 favorites]
This is smug and lazy.
Every one of us enables a thousand tiny sufferings - from the children who assemble your smartphone to the humans who spend their bodies to pick your food. Not presenting an opportunity to speak at a convention is another in this class of sufferings, but it's a choice with real reasons to support it (the careful balance of demographic and electoral assumptions of cost versus benefit in a real election with still very close margins).
I might not find the reasons adequate, but characterizing those who make the choice you don't like as mindless utopians who can be blithe about suffering with no connection between their actions and magical prosperity is both imprecise and reductive.
They might be wrong. The strategy may backfire. But they aren't casual or thoughtless about the tactical choice or the moral calculus. It's shitty to treat a hard choice you don't like as if it makes those making the choice obviously morally bankrupt fictional villains.
If Kamala loses it is worse by far. Pretending that the root of the calculus isn't messy and complicated is deeply misguided and repellently smug.
posted by Lenie Clarke at 8:18 PM on August 22 [77 favorites]
And she also said the Palestinian people have the right to self determination and to be safe and healthy.
posted by cooker girl at 8:18 PM on August 22 [35 favorites]
posted by cooker girl at 8:18 PM on August 22 [35 favorites]
The kids playing with the balloons is super-cute.
Harris did address Gaza, though they should have had a Palestinian speaker at some point. There was no winning message though, so I get why they avoided it as much as they did.
posted by netowl at 8:19 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
Harris did address Gaza, though they should have had a Palestinian speaker at some point. There was no winning message though, so I get why they avoided it as much as they did.
posted by netowl at 8:19 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
I enjoyed these set of tweets:
OP: i think this push for a dnc speaker is a great barometer for the sort of leverage the organized left (the squad, uaw, wfp, and allied nonprofits) would have under a harris admin. it very effectively tests the talking point directed at activists that harris “is listening/moveable”
RT: I think this is exactly right and that's why it's an effective protest even in its (so far) ostensible failure. It's a clarifying move for those who have not seen the contradiction. And hey--sometimes politicians do, in fact, surprise you!
Reply: Well said and clarifying, thanks for this. I think this is part of why some people got mad at those people who Harris said 'I'm speaking' to - they were mad that those people's protest clarified something about Harris that they preferred go unclarified.
posted by cendawanita at 8:23 PM on August 22 [11 favorites]
OP: i think this push for a dnc speaker is a great barometer for the sort of leverage the organized left (the squad, uaw, wfp, and allied nonprofits) would have under a harris admin. it very effectively tests the talking point directed at activists that harris “is listening/moveable”
RT: I think this is exactly right and that's why it's an effective protest even in its (so far) ostensible failure. It's a clarifying move for those who have not seen the contradiction. And hey--sometimes politicians do, in fact, surprise you!
Reply: Well said and clarifying, thanks for this. I think this is part of why some people got mad at those people who Harris said 'I'm speaking' to - they were mad that those people's protest clarified something about Harris that they preferred go unclarified.
posted by cendawanita at 8:23 PM on August 22 [11 favorites]
She pledged to make sure Israel has the means to defend itself. There is a lot of wiggle room in there.
Good point. I don't envy her or her speechwriters trying to thread this particular needle.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:28 PM on August 22 [16 favorites]
Good point. I don't envy her or her speechwriters trying to thread this particular needle.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 8:28 PM on August 22 [16 favorites]
No Palestinian speakers, but republicans? I see what you guys are trying to do, and it doesn't work, ever. But keep on letting those dirty hippie votes run off into the weeds so you can chase The Last True Conservative (if we just move far enough to the right, he'll come around!).
I found Harris' speech astonishingly banal, but I don't think I was the audience for it. I am glad it worked for so many people, though I have no idea why (edit: please do not try to explain to me why, thank you).
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:28 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
I found Harris' speech astonishingly banal, but I don't think I was the audience for it. I am glad it worked for so many people, though I have no idea why (edit: please do not try to explain to me why, thank you).
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:28 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
The balloons were disappointing.
posted by sammyo at 8:30 PM on August 22 [3 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 8:30 PM on August 22 [3 favorites]
but it's a choice with real reasons to support it (the careful balance of demographic and electoral assumptions of cost versus benefit in a real election with still very close margins)
Is it though? A recent Gallop poll found a plurality of all Americans did not approve of Israel's military actions and only 23% of Democrats approved. That's actually up from a low point of 18%.
posted by coffeecat at 8:31 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]
Is it though? A recent Gallop poll found a plurality of all Americans did not approve of Israel's military actions and only 23% of Democrats approved. That's actually up from a low point of 18%.
posted by coffeecat at 8:31 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]
The people of Omelas thinking they are moral and that they are making a tactical decision is kind of the point of the story of Omelas.
posted by Artw at 8:31 PM on August 22 [11 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:31 PM on August 22 [11 favorites]
Her speech started strong but went on a bit long, but politicians kinda have to do that dance at these events.
posted by sammyo at 8:32 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
posted by sammyo at 8:32 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
I sincerely wonder if this has affected TMZ’s credibility; aren’t they the ones who started the rumor that Beyoncé is performing?
posted by girlmightlive at 8:33 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
posted by girlmightlive at 8:33 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
I thought the opposite. It started slow but then she hit her stride and got forceful and her whole demeanor came across as what her mother told her - "Do Something". As has been said, people like me are going to need that message these next 11 weeks.
posted by cashman at 8:34 PM on August 22 [20 favorites]
posted by cashman at 8:34 PM on August 22 [20 favorites]
I sincerely wonder if this has affected TMZ’s credibility; aren’t they the ones who started the rumor that Beyoncé is performing?
That rumor has been going on for weeks, I think since the moment it was learned that Beyonce & her team gave the go-ahead for Kamala to use "Freedom". I had it my calendar since that moment.
Ultimately it worked out because just as was suggested with a Taylor Swift appearance, the fanfare would have overshadowed ... well anybody.
posted by cashman at 8:36 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
That rumor has been going on for weeks, I think since the moment it was learned that Beyonce & her team gave the go-ahead for Kamala to use "Freedom". I had it my calendar since that moment.
Ultimately it worked out because just as was suggested with a Taylor Swift appearance, the fanfare would have overshadowed ... well anybody.
posted by cashman at 8:36 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
Trump is so rattled he called into Fox.
This is why you have Republicans speak.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:38 PM on August 22 [27 favorites]
This is why you have Republicans speak.
posted by 2N2222 at 8:38 PM on August 22 [27 favorites]
That was the drawback I thought of and maybe it leaked while they were considering it.
posted by Glinn at 8:39 PM on August 22
posted by Glinn at 8:39 PM on August 22
I think it was a great speech by Harris. Very impressive. How could you choose TFG over this vision for what makes America Great?
posted by Windopaene at 8:42 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
posted by Windopaene at 8:42 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
Her speech was shorter than the one Biden gave on Monday and one third the length of the speech Trump gave at the R convention. It was very short.
I liked the mom stories. I didn’t like how much time she spent talking about the other guy. I don’t understand that decision. I liked her call to history at the end. And I appreciate the fact that she tried to speak to suffering and the humanity of the people of Gaza, even though it was done through what was essentially an AIPAC-approved American power structure sandwich.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:42 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
I liked the mom stories. I didn’t like how much time she spent talking about the other guy. I don’t understand that decision. I liked her call to history at the end. And I appreciate the fact that she tried to speak to suffering and the humanity of the people of Gaza, even though it was done through what was essentially an AIPAC-approved American power structure sandwich.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:42 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
It was a very Presidential speech. Let the bench and the beloved alumni give the hot speeches, then come in and demonstrate that you already know how to do the job.
posted by miratime at 8:44 PM on August 22 [22 favorites]
posted by miratime at 8:44 PM on August 22 [22 favorites]
The people of Omelas thinking they are moral and that they are making a tactical decision is kind of the point of the story of Omelas.
The mechanism by which the suffering magically creates prosperity is intentionally vague, the inhabitants never have the ability to understand anything other than the fact of its effect because the narrative is written that way.
The mechanism by which DNC programming may or may not have an effect on specific voting demographics in the fuckery that is our gerrymandered electoral college system is not swayed by mandates like a national poll or even common sense. I also wish that wasn't the case. But pretending the people making these decisions fit that entirely invented narrative because you don't like the calls they have made is simplistic to the point of being exhausting and, again, ineffective at changing the decisions you don't like.
posted by Lenie Clarke at 8:47 PM on August 22 [17 favorites]
The mechanism by which the suffering magically creates prosperity is intentionally vague, the inhabitants never have the ability to understand anything other than the fact of its effect because the narrative is written that way.
The mechanism by which DNC programming may or may not have an effect on specific voting demographics in the fuckery that is our gerrymandered electoral college system is not swayed by mandates like a national poll or even common sense. I also wish that wasn't the case. But pretending the people making these decisions fit that entirely invented narrative because you don't like the calls they have made is simplistic to the point of being exhausting and, again, ineffective at changing the decisions you don't like.
posted by Lenie Clarke at 8:47 PM on August 22 [17 favorites]
Also, in the story, the people who leave town just quietly walk away. They don't pop their heads back in every five minutes to make sure the other townfolk notice their moral superiority.
posted by neroli at 8:49 PM on August 22 [43 favorites]
posted by neroli at 8:49 PM on August 22 [43 favorites]
Also the Omelas stuff is reductive, condescending and smug.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 8:50 PM on August 22 [25 favorites]
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 8:50 PM on August 22 [25 favorites]
It's really not that deep, like the Beyonce rumour.
posted by cendawanita at 8:51 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 8:51 PM on August 22 [7 favorites]
Her speech was shorter than the one Biden gave on Monday and one third the length of the speech Trump gave at the R convention. It was very short.
I mean, or one could say those two speeches range from a bit to very bloated.
posted by coffeecat at 8:51 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
I mean, or one could say those two speeches range from a bit to very bloated.
posted by coffeecat at 8:51 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
> Her speech started strong but went on a bit long, but politicians kinda have to do that dance at these events.
> I mean, or one could say those two speeches range from a bit to very bloated.
I was curious, so I sort-of scientifically looked at DNC speech lengths going back to Clinton in 1992.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:51 PM on August 22 [25 favorites]
> I mean, or one could say those two speeches range from a bit to very bloated.
I was curious, so I sort-of scientifically looked at DNC speech lengths going back to Clinton in 1992.
1996 (Clinton, W.): 67 (yikes!) 2016 (Clinton, H.): 57 1992 (Clinton, W.): 53 2000 (Gore): 53 2004 (Kerry): 49 2008 (Obama): 45 2012 (Obama): 39 2024 (Harris): 38 2020 (Biden): 24 (No crowd because of Covid, no applause breaks)So, by the standards of these things, I would say Harris got straight to the point.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:51 PM on August 22 [25 favorites]
NYT headline tomorrow: "Women Cheated: Lured to DNC and Denied Free Abortions"
posted by 2N2222 at 8:55 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
posted by 2N2222 at 8:55 PM on August 22 [9 favorites]
Subhead: crowd dejected after Beyoncé no-show.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:56 PM on August 22 [10 favorites]
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:56 PM on August 22 [10 favorites]
"such that Israel is secure, the hostages are released, the suffering in Gaza ends, and the Palestinian people can realize their right to dignity, security, freedom and self determination."
posted by droomoord at 8:57 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
posted by droomoord at 8:57 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
I found Harris' speech astonishingly banal, but I don't think I was the audience for it. I am glad it worked for so many people, though I have no idea why
Elise Stefanik, is that you?
posted by 2N2222 at 8:58 PM on August 22 [11 favorites]
Elise Stefanik, is that you?
posted by 2N2222 at 8:58 PM on August 22 [11 favorites]
Eh, contrary to fears expressed up top, the coverage by the NYTimes has mostly been glowing.
posted by coffeecat at 8:59 PM on August 22
posted by coffeecat at 8:59 PM on August 22
Also NYTimes headline: Harris fails to provide policy specifics in speech to nation.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:59 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
posted by Winnie the Proust at 8:59 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
I thought the speech was very good.
About two-thirds of the way through, mrs. mmascolino turned to me and said "I wish I could vote for her tomorrow."
posted by mmascolino at 9:01 PM on August 22 [13 favorites]
About two-thirds of the way through, mrs. mmascolino turned to me and said "I wish I could vote for her tomorrow."
posted by mmascolino at 9:01 PM on August 22 [13 favorites]
she also said the Palestinian people have the right to self determination and to be safe and healthy.
Just so people are completely clear, this has been the Biden administration and Blinken's PR line pretty much word for word for the past six months.
posted by windbox at 9:02 PM on August 22 [13 favorites]
Just so people are completely clear, this has been the Biden administration and Blinken's PR line pretty much word for word for the past six months.
posted by windbox at 9:02 PM on August 22 [13 favorites]
Anyway, if you really think ten minutes of "my mom raised me to be cool" followed by twenty minutes of "Donald Trump sucks" peppered with such insights as "clean water is good" is on some Abraham Lincoln shit, good for you. This is her introduction to millions of American voters, and I hoped for a lot more. I realize that Biden's inability to get from one end of a sentence to the other without hurting himself may have set the bar right on the damn floor, of course. Anyway, it's whatever. If this inspires people to vote for her, great.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:14 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:14 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
twitch clip incoming, but vibe enthusiasts, please be prepared, hasanabi was live when he was being asked by the DNC to leave (well technically they're moving him to a different section with no internet) when he brought up the Palestine and the ceasefire negotiations.
RIP your memes
posted by cendawanita at 9:17 PM on August 22 [6 favorites]
RIP your memes
posted by cendawanita at 9:17 PM on August 22 [6 favorites]
It was a fine political speech but I'll agree that doesn't automatically make it 'Presidential'.
She got thrown into the role, I hope she grows into it. She's an upgrade from what could have been, and a heckuva lot better than the other side.
posted by mazola at 9:21 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
She got thrown into the role, I hope she grows into it. She's an upgrade from what could have been, and a heckuva lot better than the other side.
posted by mazola at 9:21 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
In our Idiocratic Age, and considering the opponent, the speech was a roaring rhetorical success. Harris is running to win today, in 2024, not running to win in 1856. Nor 300 B.C.E.
posted by riverlife at 9:30 PM on August 22 [14 favorites]
posted by riverlife at 9:30 PM on August 22 [14 favorites]
Just so people are completely clear, this has been the Biden administration and Blinken's PR line pretty much word for word for the past six months.
It's not only the PR line, it's the Democratic platform. It can be found here. Last three paragraphs most relevant.
posted by 2N2222 at 9:38 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
It's not only the PR line, it's the Democratic platform. It can be found here. Last three paragraphs most relevant.
posted by 2N2222 at 9:38 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
It was a solid speech, competently delivered. If we're going to have a standing military, it should certainly be lethal. At a bare minimum, right?
She definitely wants to have it both ways.
Don't we all?
posted by mr_roboto at 9:38 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
She definitely wants to have it both ways.
Don't we all?
posted by mr_roboto at 9:38 PM on August 22 [5 favorites]
! Is lethal synonymous for effective? Crap, I better be prepared.
posted by cendawanita at 9:40 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 9:40 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]
Also the Omelas stuff is reductive, condescending and smug.
Amen. If you think the correct choice is to walk away, just fucking walk away.
posted by mr_roboto at 9:47 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
Amen. If you think the correct choice is to walk away, just fucking walk away.
posted by mr_roboto at 9:47 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
Also the Omelas stuff is reductive, condescending and smug.
Not to mention insufferably nerdy.
posted by 2N2222 at 9:49 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
Not to mention insufferably nerdy.
posted by 2N2222 at 9:49 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
I found the speech well-crafted, well-delivered, and genuine, in a way that appeared to resonate with the enormous crowd.
I’m actually pretty critical of public speakers. Of the tiny fraction of people who don’t literally hate to do it, the vast majority truly stink at it. Living in a red state, you get used to watching uncharismatic egotists bloviate in front of lukewarm, compliant crowds.
I am familiar with unskilled hacks in love with the sound of their own voices. I recognize gutless, formulaic public speaking. I saw neither tonight.
Speaking only for myself, of course. But that crowd seemed pretty damn impressed too.
posted by armeowda at 9:53 PM on August 22 [18 favorites]
I’m actually pretty critical of public speakers. Of the tiny fraction of people who don’t literally hate to do it, the vast majority truly stink at it. Living in a red state, you get used to watching uncharismatic egotists bloviate in front of lukewarm, compliant crowds.
I am familiar with unskilled hacks in love with the sound of their own voices. I recognize gutless, formulaic public speaking. I saw neither tonight.
Speaking only for myself, of course. But that crowd seemed pretty damn impressed too.
posted by armeowda at 9:53 PM on August 22 [18 favorites]
CNN panel of eight undecided Pennsylvania voters:
- Mostly gave Harris's speech A's and B's (one C), praising her confidence and competence while wanting to hear more policy details
- 6 of 8 decided to back Harris, with the lone C backing Trump and one leaning toward not voting
posted by Rhaomi at 9:57 PM on August 22 [20 favorites]
- Mostly gave Harris's speech A's and B's (one C), praising her confidence and competence while wanting to hear more policy details
- 6 of 8 decided to back Harris, with the lone C backing Trump and one leaning toward not voting
posted by Rhaomi at 9:57 PM on August 22 [20 favorites]
Alejandra Caraballo on Twitter:
This was the first DNC since 2012 to not feature a trans person speaking. "We're not going back" doesn't apply to the trans community.
They mentioned trans people only twice in passing in 4 days of speeches and 1 was the HRC president. Meanwhile, every other speaker at the RNC was attacking trans people.
posted by mediareport at 10:05 PM on August 22 [15 favorites]
This was the first DNC since 2012 to not feature a trans person speaking. "We're not going back" doesn't apply to the trans community.
They mentioned trans people only twice in passing in 4 days of speeches and 1 was the HRC president. Meanwhile, every other speaker at the RNC was attacking trans people.
posted by mediareport at 10:05 PM on August 22 [15 favorites]
There are Omelas fics on tumblr, including one where the omelas kid aged out of the torture machine so they just kind of let him go and told him he's got student loans now. If we want to ride that particular trolley.
posted by stet at 10:12 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
posted by stet at 10:12 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
Metafilter: Not to mention insufferably nerdy.
Ahem.
posted by nat at 10:21 PM on August 22 [3 favorites]
Ahem.
posted by nat at 10:21 PM on August 22 [3 favorites]
This was the first DNC since 2012 to not feature a trans person speaking.
That is very disappointing, thank you for sharing that mediareport.
I'm also disappointed by the lack of a Palestinian speaker; I kept hoping the campaign would change its mind about that. I feel like the work the Uncommitted delegation put in probably resulted in the Vice President stating what is essentially the party platform, which is the bare minimum, but it is also much better than we would have gotten from Candidate Biden.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 10:25 PM on August 22 [13 favorites]
That is very disappointing, thank you for sharing that mediareport.
I'm also disappointed by the lack of a Palestinian speaker; I kept hoping the campaign would change its mind about that. I feel like the work the Uncommitted delegation put in probably resulted in the Vice President stating what is essentially the party platform, which is the bare minimum, but it is also much better than we would have gotten from Candidate Biden.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 10:25 PM on August 22 [13 favorites]
Excerpts of Trump's Truth Social liveblog of the Harris speech:
posted by Rhaomi at 10:27 PM on August 22 [17 favorites]
- Too many "Thank yous," too rapidly said, what's going on with her?Bonus: Immediately after the speech he calls Fox News and is so flustered that he audibly face-dials his phone screen six different times.
- WHERE'S HUNTER?
- Walz was an ASSISTANT Coach, not a COACH.
- Why didn't she do something about the things of which she complains?
- [12 seconds later:] The Chaos and Calamity is allowing our Country to be infiltrated by Millions of Criminals!
- [32 seconds later:] PEACEFULLY AND PATRIOTICALLY!
- A lot of talk about childhood, we’ve got to get to the Border, Inflation, and Crime!
- Everybody, Democrats, Republicans, Liberals, and Conservatives, wanted Roe v. Wade TERMINATED, and brought back to the States. Like Ronald Reagan and myself, most believe in EXCEPTIONS. Now the people are voting, which is the way it was supposed to be. I do not limit access to birth control or I.V.F. - THAT IS A LIE, these are all false stories that she’s making up, that I’ve never even heard of. It’s just words coming out of her mouth. I TRUST WOMEN, ALSO, AND I WILL KEEP WOMEN SAFE! SHE WON’T, BECAUSE THE INVASION OF OUR COUNTRY AT HER OPEN BORDER IS DESTROYING THE LIVES OF WOMEN, AND THE FAMILIES AND JOBS OF AFRICAN AMERICANS AND HISPANICS.
- IS SHE TALKING ABOUT ME?
posted by Rhaomi at 10:27 PM on August 22 [17 favorites]
Enough with the Omelas derail, please.
posted by NotLost at 10:30 PM on August 22 [26 favorites]
posted by NotLost at 10:30 PM on August 22 [26 favorites]
The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas is only 5 pages long and readable on the Internet Archive.
posted by neuracnu at 10:38 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
posted by neuracnu at 10:38 PM on August 22 [8 favorites]
Vibe checking: LOL ELLA STRAIGHT UP NOT CLAPPING FOR KAMALA’S BIT ABOUT BEING THE STRONGEST MOST LETHAL MILITARY IN THE WORLD 😭 REAL
(Twitter) clip
Cooked.
ETA: Maya Harris too.
(Don't scold me here, they're not on metafilter)
posted by cendawanita at 10:58 PM on August 22 [13 favorites]
(Twitter) clip
Cooked.
ETA: Maya Harris too.
(Don't scold me here, they're not on metafilter)
posted by cendawanita at 10:58 PM on August 22 [13 favorites]
Jon Stewart's DNC roundup - I like that he, also, has been noting those Trump tweets.
posted by rongorongo at 12:54 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
posted by rongorongo at 12:54 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
those Trump tweets - and the Fox News clips were hilarious, especially Jesse Waters proclaiming what a "sad funeral" the DNC was on a split screen paired with footage of Democrats boogying.
posted by airing nerdy laundry at 1:49 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
posted by airing nerdy laundry at 1:49 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
Jon Stewart's DNC roundup - I like that he, also, has been noting those Trump tweets.
I was bracing myself but heh, other than a mention and some well-deserved lols in the first third of the video, that's the old-school (actual) liberal Stewart I actually remember. Second third of the segment just goes into the hypocrisies of the lineup including the lack of Palestinians. (Lol, "photo not found")
posted by cendawanita at 3:05 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
I was bracing myself but heh, other than a mention and some well-deserved lols in the first third of the video, that's the old-school (actual) liberal Stewart I actually remember. Second third of the segment just goes into the hypocrisies of the lineup including the lack of Palestinians. (Lol, "photo not found")
posted by cendawanita at 3:05 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
"Lethal" seemed like a pitch to the republicans that the democrats desperately wish exist, the Strong Men of Principle Who Cannot Abide Trump. I was fairly horrified to hear Harris trumpet how awesome our military is at killing people, it's not really the kind of rhetoric I love in a leader, but I think she's trying to project a "tough" image rather than a "nurturing" or "protective" one. I'm not sure the democratic party needs an Iron Lady, again I feel like this is aimed at a Kevin Costner esque voter who I don't think exists in real life, but it's buried in enough other vaguely inspirational bullshit that maybe most people won't remember it. Except, of course, for whomever it was supposed to be a selling point. That person was probably asleep; I presume they have to be up at 5 AM to rope their cattle or whatever they do there on the ranch.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:50 AM on August 23 [11 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:50 AM on August 23 [11 favorites]
Excerpts of Trump's Truth Social liveblog of the Harris speech:
- Why didn't she do something about the things of which she complains?
Why didn't YOU, you pillock?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:51 AM on August 23 [14 favorites]
- Why didn't she do something about the things of which she complains?
Why didn't YOU, you pillock?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:51 AM on August 23 [14 favorites]
Also, in the story, the people who leave town just quietly walk away.
in the real world, there's no place one can walk away to
posted by pyramid termite at 3:57 AM on August 23 [13 favorites]
in the real world, there's no place one can walk away to
posted by pyramid termite at 3:57 AM on August 23 [13 favorites]
I shouldn't be able to be disappointed by the Democrats at this point, but somehow managed it.
The absence of trans people and Palestinians on the main stage, the deplorable treatment of the Uncommitted delegates, and the awful speech Harris concluded with.
I'll still vote for them, because there is no choice, but it is clear nothing has really changed, and the party is still rotten.
posted by pattern juggler at 4:14 AM on August 23 [8 favorites]
The absence of trans people and Palestinians on the main stage, the deplorable treatment of the Uncommitted delegates, and the awful speech Harris concluded with.
I'll still vote for them, because there is no choice, but it is clear nothing has really changed, and the party is still rotten.
posted by pattern juggler at 4:14 AM on August 23 [8 favorites]
Why didn't she do something about the things of which she complains?
I'm a little bit fascinated by there being something in his pathology-addled brain that suddenly reminded him not to end a sentence with a preposition.
posted by nobody at 4:38 AM on August 23 [22 favorites]
I'm a little bit fascinated by there being something in his pathology-addled brain that suddenly reminded him not to end a sentence with a preposition.
posted by nobody at 4:38 AM on August 23 [22 favorites]
The party is rotten because the American people are rotten. We've been raised on hypercapitalist consumerism and opting out isn't exactly an option. Dems have to get 51% of the votes (actually a lot more than that because of the racially motivated structure of the electoral college) in opposition to a party deeply invested in the nationalist, white supremacist, patriarchal power structure. But the power structure being what it is, simply participating in it co-opts you to some degree.
It's a system that needs to be torn down, but the strategy of the Democratic party is to take it down brick by brick to avoid a catastrophic collapse that would hurt or kill many, many people and perhaps not ultimately result in a better system. (Meanwhile Republicans keep adding bricks.)
I agree it's very tempting to advocate for a bulldozer, but I don't have any confidence that will result in a better world. I'd rather see more people removing more brick faster.
posted by rikschell at 4:50 AM on August 23 [42 favorites]
It's a system that needs to be torn down, but the strategy of the Democratic party is to take it down brick by brick to avoid a catastrophic collapse that would hurt or kill many, many people and perhaps not ultimately result in a better system. (Meanwhile Republicans keep adding bricks.)
I agree it's very tempting to advocate for a bulldozer, but I don't have any confidence that will result in a better world. I'd rather see more people removing more brick faster.
posted by rikschell at 4:50 AM on August 23 [42 favorites]
The party is rotten because the American people are rotten.
I'll agree that far.
The broader question of revolution versus incrementalism, amd whether the Democratic party has plausible role to play in either is probably too far afield from the topic of the DNC to address here
posted by pattern juggler at 4:54 AM on August 23 [5 favorites]
I'll agree that far.
The broader question of revolution versus incrementalism, amd whether the Democratic party has plausible role to play in either is probably too far afield from the topic of the DNC to address here
posted by pattern juggler at 4:54 AM on August 23 [5 favorites]
Mod note: One removed, let's avoid generic comments about what the MetaFilter community is or isn't, thanks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:02 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 5:02 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
It's weird to be reminded of how alienating I find American exceptionalism and cheerleading for the military and hawkish foreign policy.
But - I kind of don't think you win a national presidential election without that. Especially if you're a woman.
I think it will require a massive sea change in the American public before we have a major party candidate who's really ready to confront the costs of the US's place in the world. And it will require a massive sea change in the democratic party leadership as well.
I'm not feeling a little discouraged because the speeches were more right-leaning than I wanted or expected, but I'm feeling a little discouraged to be reminded of how difficult it is to sell people on a different vision of America.
posted by Jeanne at 5:04 AM on August 23 [25 favorites]
But - I kind of don't think you win a national presidential election without that. Especially if you're a woman.
I think it will require a massive sea change in the American public before we have a major party candidate who's really ready to confront the costs of the US's place in the world. And it will require a massive sea change in the democratic party leadership as well.
I'm not feeling a little discouraged because the speeches were more right-leaning than I wanted or expected, but I'm feeling a little discouraged to be reminded of how difficult it is to sell people on a different vision of America.
posted by Jeanne at 5:04 AM on August 23 [25 favorites]
In retrospect, I'm surprised what amounts to a megachurch service for centrist dems was as substantial as it was. Its biggest and most serious statements came from demonstrating who it chose not to platform. Looking around the responses from the party faithful mostly makes me feel like I'm wearing the sunglasses from They Live, but again, if this is working for people, okay. I really don't want Trump to win. We can reckon with the consequences of electing Judge Dredd in a pantsuit later.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:11 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:11 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
Whatever your thoughts are re: Harris, her speech, or the convention in general, I think it's pretty unquestionable that the Dems have managed to seize the political center, which is more or less essential for victory in American elections.
The Trumpists are going to be falling over themselves trying to find clips from her speech that they can use to make her seem like a Big Scary Communist, and they are going to look absolutely ridiculous trying to do so.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 5:13 AM on August 23 [20 favorites]
The Trumpists are going to be falling over themselves trying to find clips from her speech that they can use to make her seem like a Big Scary Communist, and they are going to look absolutely ridiculous trying to do so.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 5:13 AM on August 23 [20 favorites]
Yes, as a practical vote-getting matter, why would the Democratic Party move left when the Right is ceding the center? Yes, that sucks for leftists, but as long as it's a good thing for antifascism I can live with it.
posted by rikschell at 5:18 AM on August 23 [24 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 5:18 AM on August 23 [24 favorites]
Whatever your thoughts are re: Harris, her speech, or the convention in general, I think it's pretty unquestionable that the Dems have managed to seize the political center, which is more or less essential for victory in American elections.
Maybe the Republican party is so far to the right now that this is finally, after 30 years of failing, something the Democrats can accomplish with triangulation. Personally, I feel like I'm taking cRaZy PiLlS over here, there is no center both parties have split so far apart around center-right policies. Years ago now there was an article about "independent voters' and the vaaaaast bulk are partisans with issues acknowledging their own partisanship for whatever reason. 60-80% of them always vote one way.
It's like that Arrested Development skit. Did working towards the center save democrats from losing one or both houses of Congress or the Presidency in multiple cases over the last 30 years? No, it never worked out for them.
But maybe it can work for us.
posted by Slackermagee at 5:24 AM on August 23 [12 favorites]
Maybe the Republican party is so far to the right now that this is finally, after 30 years of failing, something the Democrats can accomplish with triangulation. Personally, I feel like I'm taking cRaZy PiLlS over here, there is no center both parties have split so far apart around center-right policies. Years ago now there was an article about "independent voters' and the vaaaaast bulk are partisans with issues acknowledging their own partisanship for whatever reason. 60-80% of them always vote one way.
It's like that Arrested Development skit. Did working towards the center save democrats from losing one or both houses of Congress or the Presidency in multiple cases over the last 30 years? No, it never worked out for them.
But maybe it can work for us.
posted by Slackermagee at 5:24 AM on August 23 [12 favorites]
I mean, it sucks for a lot of people. It super sucks for the people of Palestine, who are getting burned in a fucking wicker man in hopes of making President Kamala Harris happen. But that's what happens when you're Brat I guess.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:24 AM on August 23 [9 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:24 AM on August 23 [9 favorites]
Incredible Jon Stewart: "They had black Americans, Hispanic Americans, Asian Americans, gay Americans, Jewish Americans, Palestinian Am- oh. To be fair, it was only four nights, eight hours a night."
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 5:56 AM on August 23 [14 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 5:56 AM on August 23 [14 favorites]
The other thing Harris didn’t discuss: climate change. The only mention was “live free from the pollution that fuels the climate crisis.” Extreme heat has killed tens of thousands of people worldwide this year and it will get worse. And an arms embargo or peace treaty won’t stop those deaths. The majority of Americans want to do something about it. In addition, the Biden/Harris administration generated 180,000 jobs around clean tech. America emits the most carbon per capita by a wide margin, and our banks fund the most fossil fuel exploration and development by a wide margin. Ignoring it boggles the mind.
posted by rednikki at 5:56 AM on August 23 [19 favorites]
posted by rednikki at 5:56 AM on August 23 [19 favorites]
One of the problems (in the same manner we use the word for Palestine) with climate change as a policy plank is the fact that China is a renewables manufacturing powerhouse. Geopolitics won't matter if we're dead from the heat, but... You got me. (I wanted to say that even in the Cold War the US could work with the Soviet Union on international concerns but I could be looking through rose-tinted glasses) Unlike 1980s Japan or 2000s South Korea, China didn't "hold up" its end of the deal in the game of market liberalization and become a client state with a productive manufacturing sector.
posted by cendawanita at 6:05 AM on August 23 [4 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 6:05 AM on August 23 [4 favorites]
(I wanted to say that even in the Cold War the US could work with the Soviet Union on international concerns but I could be looking through rose-tinted glasses)
Issuing the caveat that my own perspective of the time might be more smoky than rosy, but I do not really remember it that way (Reagan cracking candid jokes like "we begin bombing in five minutes" tended to counterbalance most attempts, if memory serves).
This is not to say that there wasn't any diplomacy, but there were also way more grownups in the GOP than there seem to be these days.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:19 AM on August 23 [5 favorites]
Issuing the caveat that my own perspective of the time might be more smoky than rosy, but I do not really remember it that way (Reagan cracking candid jokes like "we begin bombing in five minutes" tended to counterbalance most attempts, if memory serves).
This is not to say that there wasn't any diplomacy, but there were also way more grownups in the GOP than there seem to be these days.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:19 AM on August 23 [5 favorites]
Yeah I was thinking of the Montreal Protocol (which healed our ozone layer! If you noticed ppl rarely talk about the hole that why) but that's like the 1990s so it could very much be in that transition/shock doctrine era. OTOH international cooperation for things tend to go a lot more smoothly if it was seen as technocratic rather than politic and environment + public health tended to be fairly sacrosanct. Until the great fascist unwinding of our era.
posted by cendawanita at 6:23 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 6:23 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
(guess who's a big fan of Captain Planet 🤧)
posted by cendawanita at 6:24 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 6:24 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
Yeah I was thinking of the Montreal Protocol (which healed our ozone layer! If you noticed ppl rarely talk about the hole that why) but that's like the 1990s so it could very much be in that transition/shock doctrine era.
Oh, yeah, the 90s were a totally different ballgame. I enrolled in a course in Soviet Foreign Policy in college (I don't know WHAT I was thinking), and Glasnost started happening about 3 weeks into the course - and by the end of the semester things had changed so dramatically that the professor announced that he no longer had any idea what the fuck was going on any more, passed us all and turned the whole thing into a current-events discussion group. The 80s Cold War was way less friendly.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:27 AM on August 23 [24 favorites]
Oh, yeah, the 90s were a totally different ballgame. I enrolled in a course in Soviet Foreign Policy in college (I don't know WHAT I was thinking), and Glasnost started happening about 3 weeks into the course - and by the end of the semester things had changed so dramatically that the professor announced that he no longer had any idea what the fuck was going on any more, passed us all and turned the whole thing into a current-events discussion group. The 80s Cold War was way less friendly.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:27 AM on August 23 [24 favorites]
Yes, as a practical vote-getting matter, why would the Democratic Party move left when the Right is ceding the center? Yes, that sucks for leftists, but as long as it's a good thing for antifascism I can live with it.
Defeating Republicans is necessary but not sufficient to defeat fascism. There is absolutely a strain of militaristic and nationalistic politics in the Democrats as well.
The Democrats obviously have the option to tack right, at a significant cost to the welfare of a lot of Americans and others. If they do so, they will lose votes on the left. If that loss costs them elections, they need to accept responsibility for it. I don't think they are likely to do so, however.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:34 AM on August 23 [10 favorites]
Defeating Republicans is necessary but not sufficient to defeat fascism. There is absolutely a strain of militaristic and nationalistic politics in the Democrats as well.
The Democrats obviously have the option to tack right, at a significant cost to the welfare of a lot of Americans and others. If they do so, they will lose votes on the left. If that loss costs them elections, they need to accept responsibility for it. I don't think they are likely to do so, however.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:34 AM on August 23 [10 favorites]
I doubt the loss will cost them elections. The American electorate is overall not terribly progressive, policy-wise or temperamentally, and doesn’t seem very malleable in that regard. We work with what we have.
posted by argybarg at 6:41 AM on August 23 [5 favorites]
posted by argybarg at 6:41 AM on August 23 [5 favorites]
Americans tend to identify with progressive causes as long as they're not described as progressive.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:44 AM on August 23 [26 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:44 AM on August 23 [26 favorites]
The American electorate is overall not terribly progressive, policy-wise or temperamentally, and doesn’t seem very malleable in that regard. We work with what we have.
That might also be a function of the 1980s, upon reflection...between Lee Atwater, Phyllis Schafly, and the Moral Majority, there were a whole lot of people joining forces to push things right and they were prepared to play a very long game.
Which means that pushing things back left might also be a very long game - but it also means, it's possible to do.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:47 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
That might also be a function of the 1980s, upon reflection...between Lee Atwater, Phyllis Schafly, and the Moral Majority, there were a whole lot of people joining forces to push things right and they were prepared to play a very long game.
Which means that pushing things back left might also be a very long game - but it also means, it's possible to do.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:47 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
The Times tried to make this an issue a couple of days ago and got no traction. Climate leaders express zero concern about Harris campaign silence on climate change. They know and trust her and just want to get her elected.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 6:48 AM on August 23 [13 favorites]
posted by Winnie the Proust at 6:48 AM on August 23 [13 favorites]
(cw: cis person contemplating trans issues. apologies in advance if this train of thought is clumsy, or hurtful)
Similarly to the not really getting into climate change thing, I'm hoping that the conspicuous absence of speeches from trans Dems to be less of an instance of hanging them out to dry, and more an example of keeping your cards close to your chest.
Right now, the fascists are routinely deploying transphobia as a wedge-issue. It's just disgustingly constant. In response to the heartwarming Gus Walz moment the other day, for instance, Megyn Kelly immediately tried to use it to launch an attack on the elder Walz for his support of gender affirming care in Minnesota. That's the level of their derangement. It's all they have.
In the UK, we've seen trans rights being treated as an election issue, subject to debate. The result was a massive spike in violence against trans people. Lies and disinformation surrounding trans people is one of the main pipelines into the modern fascist movement, thanks to high profile transphobes like Musk and Rowling.
I truly apologize if any of this comes off like I don't want to see trans voices centered, which I do, but I am also deeply worried about the consequences of allowing the other side to frame this election as a referendum on trans people. I feel like a broad platform, centering medical autonomy, is unquestionably more likely to protect my trans loved ones than the GOP platform and Proj2025, which obviously would do them incredible harm.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 6:55 AM on August 23 [33 favorites]
Similarly to the not really getting into climate change thing, I'm hoping that the conspicuous absence of speeches from trans Dems to be less of an instance of hanging them out to dry, and more an example of keeping your cards close to your chest.
Right now, the fascists are routinely deploying transphobia as a wedge-issue. It's just disgustingly constant. In response to the heartwarming Gus Walz moment the other day, for instance, Megyn Kelly immediately tried to use it to launch an attack on the elder Walz for his support of gender affirming care in Minnesota. That's the level of their derangement. It's all they have.
In the UK, we've seen trans rights being treated as an election issue, subject to debate. The result was a massive spike in violence against trans people. Lies and disinformation surrounding trans people is one of the main pipelines into the modern fascist movement, thanks to high profile transphobes like Musk and Rowling.
I truly apologize if any of this comes off like I don't want to see trans voices centered, which I do, but I am also deeply worried about the consequences of allowing the other side to frame this election as a referendum on trans people. I feel like a broad platform, centering medical autonomy, is unquestionably more likely to protect my trans loved ones than the GOP platform and Proj2025, which obviously would do them incredible harm.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 6:55 AM on August 23 [33 favorites]
Theory:
No Palestinian speakers, but republicans? I see what you guys are trying to do, and it doesn't work, ever. But keep on letting those dirty hippie votes run off into the weeds so you can chase The Last True Conservative (if we just move far enough to the right, he'll come around!).
I found Harris' speech astonishingly banal, but I don't think I was the audience for it. I am glad it worked for so many people, though I have no idea why (edit: please do not try to explain to me why, thank you).
Contrary evidence:
CNN panel of eight undecided Pennsylvania voters:
- Mostly gave Harris's speech A's and B's (one C), praising her confidence and competence while wanting to hear more policy details
- 6 of 8 decided to back Harris, with the lone C backing Trump and one leaning toward not voting
Obviously we won't know until election day if it really pans out, but early evidence shows that the plan is working. Trump had a clear majority of voters polling for him before Harris entered the race and she needed a way to pull some back in order to win (as well as excite the Democratic base) She is walking the wire trying to both.
posted by gwint at 6:59 AM on August 23 [12 favorites]
No Palestinian speakers, but republicans? I see what you guys are trying to do, and it doesn't work, ever. But keep on letting those dirty hippie votes run off into the weeds so you can chase The Last True Conservative (if we just move far enough to the right, he'll come around!).
I found Harris' speech astonishingly banal, but I don't think I was the audience for it. I am glad it worked for so many people, though I have no idea why (edit: please do not try to explain to me why, thank you).
Contrary evidence:
CNN panel of eight undecided Pennsylvania voters:
- Mostly gave Harris's speech A's and B's (one C), praising her confidence and competence while wanting to hear more policy details
- 6 of 8 decided to back Harris, with the lone C backing Trump and one leaning toward not voting
Obviously we won't know until election day if it really pans out, but early evidence shows that the plan is working. Trump had a clear majority of voters polling for him before Harris entered the race and she needed a way to pull some back in order to win (as well as excite the Democratic base) She is walking the wire trying to both.
posted by gwint at 6:59 AM on August 23 [12 favorites]
The other thing Harris didn’t discuss: climate change.
I thought I saw a lot about climate change during the convention, and I only saw about half of it.
I guess it wasn't in her speech, but it certainly was addressed by others. (As opposed to Palestine/Israel)
Maybe we should have longer speeches.... (JK)
posted by MtDewd at 7:08 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
I thought I saw a lot about climate change during the convention, and I only saw about half of it.
I guess it wasn't in her speech, but it certainly was addressed by others. (As opposed to Palestine/Israel)
Maybe we should have longer speeches.... (JK)
posted by MtDewd at 7:08 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
Best and Worst Moments from Night 4 (NYT pundit panel)
posted by box at 7:11 AM on August 23 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 7:11 AM on August 23 [1 favorite]
In the UK, we've seen trans rights being treated as an election issue, subject to debate.
It's not a debate anymore, Labour caved because they were also too afraid to forcefully defend trans people.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 7:13 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
It's not a debate anymore, Labour caved because they were also too afraid to forcefully defend trans people.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 7:13 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
managed to seize the political center, which is more or less essential for victory in American elections.
This is one theory of elections, and certainly it was definitely the dominate theory in the 90s/00s. It imagines that all voters can be neatly lined up from radical left to alt right/white nationalist, and thus the real contest happens in the center.
But there are a lot of reasons to think that doesn't quite explain election outcomes. For one thing, you have the Bernie–Trump voters - these were clearly not voters in the center debating between two parties, but people who felt that most politicians didn't care about people like them, and felt (rightly or wrongly) that these two candidates were committed to changing the status quo in a way that would favor them. And then there is the roughly 40% of non-voters - since 2004, the range in turnout is 8.6% (2012 - 58%; 2020 - 66.6%), which is considerable when you consider the narrow margin Biden won a number of states. Unless you imagine that it's only centrists who sit out elections, the importance of turnout suggests a different theory of elections.
I'm not saying the center doesn't matter at all - just that its imagined importance is inflated. Sometimes elections are about something larger than left vs. right. It's arguable that in 2020 pretty much anyone could have won - while the cynical "lesser of two evils" has sometimes fit in the past (at least if you squint), in this case one side was a literal fascist demagogue and a sizable majority recognized that fact. Now that enough of the population has forgotten that fact means that yes, we need centrists, but we also need progressives (roughly a little over 1/3 of the party based on the 2020 primary), and in Michigan you need Arab Americans.
On the whole, I thought the convention did a good job being a big tent, but the areas where it failed are still troubling since it's likely going to take more than the center to win this election - most poll analysts agree it's a toss up right now (which is still of course much better than where we were however many weeks ago).
posted by coffeecat at 7:17 AM on August 23 [9 favorites]
This is one theory of elections, and certainly it was definitely the dominate theory in the 90s/00s. It imagines that all voters can be neatly lined up from radical left to alt right/white nationalist, and thus the real contest happens in the center.
But there are a lot of reasons to think that doesn't quite explain election outcomes. For one thing, you have the Bernie–Trump voters - these were clearly not voters in the center debating between two parties, but people who felt that most politicians didn't care about people like them, and felt (rightly or wrongly) that these two candidates were committed to changing the status quo in a way that would favor them. And then there is the roughly 40% of non-voters - since 2004, the range in turnout is 8.6% (2012 - 58%; 2020 - 66.6%), which is considerable when you consider the narrow margin Biden won a number of states. Unless you imagine that it's only centrists who sit out elections, the importance of turnout suggests a different theory of elections.
I'm not saying the center doesn't matter at all - just that its imagined importance is inflated. Sometimes elections are about something larger than left vs. right. It's arguable that in 2020 pretty much anyone could have won - while the cynical "lesser of two evils" has sometimes fit in the past (at least if you squint), in this case one side was a literal fascist demagogue and a sizable majority recognized that fact. Now that enough of the population has forgotten that fact means that yes, we need centrists, but we also need progressives (roughly a little over 1/3 of the party based on the 2020 primary), and in Michigan you need Arab Americans.
On the whole, I thought the convention did a good job being a big tent, but the areas where it failed are still troubling since it's likely going to take more than the center to win this election - most poll analysts agree it's a toss up right now (which is still of course much better than where we were however many weeks ago).
posted by coffeecat at 7:17 AM on August 23 [9 favorites]
If it works for low info voters, then terrific, I guess. A vote from a moron counts too.
Ok, but a voter might be "low info" because they work three minimum-wage jobs, raise kids, and are the primary caregiver for their ageing parent, and do not have time to follow politics. Please keep in mind how incredibly privileged we are, those of us with the spare time, energy, money and mental resources to post on Metafilter.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 7:18 AM on August 23 [68 favorites]
Ok, but a voter might be "low info" because they work three minimum-wage jobs, raise kids, and are the primary caregiver for their ageing parent, and do not have time to follow politics. Please keep in mind how incredibly privileged we are, those of us with the spare time, energy, money and mental resources to post on Metafilter.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 7:18 AM on August 23 [68 favorites]
No, I don't think I will.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:21 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:21 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
There was some good stuff on climate change early in the evening - Maxwell Frost's speech, Deb Haaland's speech, and a video featuring a public transit worker in Arizona and an emphasis on creating jobs by fighting climate change. It's not a lot - both speeches were very short - but I'll take it.
posted by Jeanne at 7:24 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
posted by Jeanne at 7:24 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
I doubt the loss will cost them elections
The party itself seems of two minds about this. Progressive voices are an unnecessary fringe, demanding too much when they ask for a seat at the table or policy concessions. But they owe the Democrats votes and risk plunging the country into fascism if the don't come out to vote.
In 2016, supporters of Sanders overwhelmingly came out to vote in 2016, and yet for years the party narrative was that spoiled leftists sabotaged Clinton. If leftist ever actually don't turn up to vote, I expect we will never hear the end of it.
posted by pattern juggler at 7:26 AM on August 23 [15 favorites]
The party itself seems of two minds about this. Progressive voices are an unnecessary fringe, demanding too much when they ask for a seat at the table or policy concessions. But they owe the Democrats votes and risk plunging the country into fascism if the don't come out to vote.
In 2016, supporters of Sanders overwhelmingly came out to vote in 2016, and yet for years the party narrative was that spoiled leftists sabotaged Clinton. If leftist ever actually don't turn up to vote, I expect we will never hear the end of it.
posted by pattern juggler at 7:26 AM on August 23 [15 favorites]
Ok, but a voter might be "low info" because they work three minimum-wage jobs, raise kids, and are the primary caregiver for their ageing parent, and do not have time to follow politics.
Thank you!!!
posted by jgirl at 7:29 AM on August 23 [14 favorites]
More generally, treating voters we’re hoping to invite into a coalition as “morons” is a poor strategy — and not just a poor strategy but perhaps a good occasion for self-reflection.
Disaffected voters have learned over the years that maybe they can be part of the Left if, and only if, they give up all their prior identity and atone for being “morons” and moral failures. And then — maybe.
posted by argybarg at 7:36 AM on August 23 [22 favorites]
Disaffected voters have learned over the years that maybe they can be part of the Left if, and only if, they give up all their prior identity and atone for being “morons” and moral failures. And then — maybe.
posted by argybarg at 7:36 AM on August 23 [22 favorites]
Does the progressive population of the united states tend to live in blue, red or purple states?
posted by Selena777 at 7:37 AM on August 23 [1 favorite]
posted by Selena777 at 7:37 AM on August 23 [1 favorite]
I watched a good chunk of last night's events. Harris' speech was fine. It was a mainstream presidential-style speech, very well delivered. If it nets her more votes in the swing states, that's great!
The lack of trans speakers was disconcerting in retrospect, though I was pleased to see a trans person co-representing my state during the roll call.
On another note here's an excellent thread on Bluesky about the Harris campaign with an inside persective covering how far she's come. The whole thing is worth reading, but here's some key parts:
The lack of trans speakers was disconcerting in retrospect, though I was pleased to see a trans person co-representing my state during the roll call.
On another note here's an excellent thread on Bluesky about the Harris campaign with an inside persective covering how far she's come. The whole thing is worth reading, but here's some key parts:
So, the organization of her campaign and team have just unquestionably improved from 2020 and the early White House days. In our book, which was out early this year, we noted there were earlier indications of Harris starting to hit her stride.posted by May Kasahara at 7:38 AM on August 23 [13 favorites]
Mainly, she was a key driver of the Dem focus on abortion messaging that was a key part of their successful strategy in 2022. That was a huge flash of really solid instincts that saved the cycle for the party.
[...]
Lastly, one thing that I am not sure gets discussed enough is how much the Biden team seemed to undermine Harris. This is something they deny strenuously but tagging her with the immigration portfolio - and unwinnable
tough issue - hurt them both.
[...]
There was also real concrete work behind the scenes. One source close to Harris told me they counseled her to build her own team in waiting since the Biden folks would not necessarily be taking care of her well. She clearly did it.
Another source close to Harris told me, before she took over the ticket, that she did always have a break open glass in case of emergency operation ready to go. I think that was due to Biden's age and the advice she'd gotten about being undermined.
Mod note: A few comments removed. kittens for breakfast, please take the day off from the thread, while others please move and don't make this a personal one on one.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:39 AM on August 23 [29 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:39 AM on August 23 [29 favorites]
but I'm feeling a little discouraged to be reminded of how difficult it is to sell people on a different vision of America
honestly, I think what will (hopefully) win the election for Harris and her crowd is their ability to sell people a vision of America where, for the first time in at least eight years, they can actually look forward to Thanksgiving dinner, where for at least one evening, people that are supposed to love each another can focus on what unites them as opposed to what divides them.
posted by philip-random at 7:46 AM on August 23 [12 favorites]
honestly, I think what will (hopefully) win the election for Harris and her crowd is their ability to sell people a vision of America where, for the first time in at least eight years, they can actually look forward to Thanksgiving dinner, where for at least one evening, people that are supposed to love each another can focus on what unites them as opposed to what divides them.
posted by philip-random at 7:46 AM on August 23 [12 favorites]
Compared to the three nights before this, this one was meh. It did the minimum but certainly had a few missed opportunities (e.g. Palestinian speakers, trans representation, Beyonce/Taylor Swift). But the minimum is important for a campaign.
Ideally, those "missed opportunities" will become "late opportunities," where her campaign circles around back. I understand the logic behind scaffolding Republicans-for-Harris at the Convention, but I do want real platforming of Palestinian/trans/climate change/immigration reform/criminal justice reform voices and plans. As Walz has demonstrated, you can do that in broadly popular ways that centrists like without engaging in the hippie-punching Democrats tend to engage in for general elections. If anything the focus on abortion has taught us, the position that you treated as poison is often one that a lot of people believe in if presented that way!
Harris does not have this in the bag, and will be fighting every day knowing its an uphill battle. But the "center" is not the NYT-imagined center that does like Trump but also hates immigrants. The center is a malleable collection of people that need to be convinced that their best interests are already aligned with Democratic values.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 7:53 AM on August 23 [18 favorites]
Ideally, those "missed opportunities" will become "late opportunities," where her campaign circles around back. I understand the logic behind scaffolding Republicans-for-Harris at the Convention, but I do want real platforming of Palestinian/trans/climate change/immigration reform/criminal justice reform voices and plans. As Walz has demonstrated, you can do that in broadly popular ways that centrists like without engaging in the hippie-punching Democrats tend to engage in for general elections. If anything the focus on abortion has taught us, the position that you treated as poison is often one that a lot of people believe in if presented that way!
Harris does not have this in the bag, and will be fighting every day knowing its an uphill battle. But the "center" is not the NYT-imagined center that does like Trump but also hates immigrants. The center is a malleable collection of people that need to be convinced that their best interests are already aligned with Democratic values.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 7:53 AM on August 23 [18 favorites]
Lastly, one thing that I am not sure gets discussed enough is how much the Biden team seemed to undermine Harris. This is something they deny strenuously but tagging her with the immigration portfolio - and unwinnable
tough issue - hurt them both
I'm sure we'll find out for sure in the not-so-distant future but I'm seeing references to internal party dynamics and politics in the DNC programming also (the gossiping finally came my way because of the Uncommitted freeze-out)
posted by cendawanita at 7:54 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
tough issue - hurt them both
I'm sure we'll find out for sure in the not-so-distant future but I'm seeing references to internal party dynamics and politics in the DNC programming also (the gossiping finally came my way because of the Uncommitted freeze-out)
posted by cendawanita at 7:54 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
More generally, treating voters we’re hoping to invite into a coalition as “morons” is a poor strategy — and not just a poor strategy but perhaps a good occasion for self-reflection.
There are plenty of voters I don't want in any Democratic coalition. Being a part of a coalition is generally a two way street, with the party catering to you as well as you supporting the party. I don't want, for example, racists, transphobes, or war hawks making up a substantial part of the Democratic vote and getting Democratic politicians to cater to them. Also, none of us here are politicians, so being polite to the abstract concept of a low information,centrist voter (rather than an actual human being who stops by and has actual.feelings) seems unnecessary.
Disaffected voters have learned over the years that maybe they can be part of the Left if, and only if, they give up all their prior identity and atone for being “morons” and moral failures. And then — maybe.
I am a southerner, born to working class parents, in a blood red county, with a high school education, who attends church services regularly, who barely makes ends meet. Not a single actual leftist has ever made me feel bad about any of that or suggested I need to give it up. Only a few liberals have ever been nasty about it. Right wingers have taken it to mean I am a safe person to share their racist, authoritarian fantasies with, though.
Does the progressive population of the united states tend to live in blue, red or purple states?
Some of us live in very red states and are dependent on the federal government for any hope of help, because our local and state governments would rather we die. (Not because we are leftists. Just because we are poor.)
posted by pattern juggler at 7:55 AM on August 23 [17 favorites]
There are plenty of voters I don't want in any Democratic coalition. Being a part of a coalition is generally a two way street, with the party catering to you as well as you supporting the party. I don't want, for example, racists, transphobes, or war hawks making up a substantial part of the Democratic vote and getting Democratic politicians to cater to them. Also, none of us here are politicians, so being polite to the abstract concept of a low information,centrist voter (rather than an actual human being who stops by and has actual.feelings) seems unnecessary.
Disaffected voters have learned over the years that maybe they can be part of the Left if, and only if, they give up all their prior identity and atone for being “morons” and moral failures. And then — maybe.
I am a southerner, born to working class parents, in a blood red county, with a high school education, who attends church services regularly, who barely makes ends meet. Not a single actual leftist has ever made me feel bad about any of that or suggested I need to give it up. Only a few liberals have ever been nasty about it. Right wingers have taken it to mean I am a safe person to share their racist, authoritarian fantasies with, though.
Does the progressive population of the united states tend to live in blue, red or purple states?
Some of us live in very red states and are dependent on the federal government for any hope of help, because our local and state governments would rather we die. (Not because we are leftists. Just because we are poor.)
posted by pattern juggler at 7:55 AM on August 23 [17 favorites]
Or more cynically, that the man-children will be made to behave themselves again. Or that these horrendous ideologies need to be talked about like they have any place in society. We can call out unreasonable bullshit as unreasonable bullshit.
I read through some discussion above of Trump playing Harris's campaign song as he got off a plane and how ticked people off. That's why he does it. But it's acceptable to treat it like the weird, childish bullshit it is. I mean, not only is it dumb and petty, but it's such a lazy and stupid attempt at a dig.
Don't get mad him, that's what he and his followers want, mock the fucker. He can't throw shade for shit and when he tries he just comes off as weird and childish.
We just don't need to take any of their ideas seriously anymore. We never should have but here we are.
posted by VTX at 7:58 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
I read through some discussion above of Trump playing Harris's campaign song as he got off a plane and how ticked people off. That's why he does it. But it's acceptable to treat it like the weird, childish bullshit it is. I mean, not only is it dumb and petty, but it's such a lazy and stupid attempt at a dig.
Don't get mad him, that's what he and his followers want, mock the fucker. He can't throw shade for shit and when he tries he just comes off as weird and childish.
We just don't need to take any of their ideas seriously anymore. We never should have but here we are.
posted by VTX at 7:58 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
Something I thought I knew before I started my political science graduate program was completely turned on its head once I started diving into the research and literature on political participation. I thought, wrongly, that the populous was informed and knew what they were voting for on any given topic. I assumed, which I think a lot (most?) of us do, that people paid attention to politics and politicians, regardless of how busy they were or how much education they had or where they fell on the political spectrum.
Turns out that is not true! It was a total revelation for me - and, I'm not gonna lie - it broke my heart and made me wallow in despair for a bit about the state of the world. Most people, really and truly, do not pay attention to politics on anything like the level we do here on MetaFilter or in our own personal lives. They might pay attention when it's time to vote (but there again, we rarely get more than 25%-ish of the population to even turn out to vote) but they aren't following policy, they aren't digging into how their representatives vote, and they aren't talking about - let alone thinking about! - politics on a daily basis.
What they might do is watch the news, sometimes they read headlines, and occasionally they watch speeches. They get their political knowledge from the bare periphery. That's one reason why FOX is so despicable; they full well know that their audience is likely listening only to them and they flat out lie to them all the dang time.
I'm more than happy to share any of the literature that shows just how utterly uninformed the average voter is, just MeMail me.
posted by cooker girl at 8:02 AM on August 23 [28 favorites]
Turns out that is not true! It was a total revelation for me - and, I'm not gonna lie - it broke my heart and made me wallow in despair for a bit about the state of the world. Most people, really and truly, do not pay attention to politics on anything like the level we do here on MetaFilter or in our own personal lives. They might pay attention when it's time to vote (but there again, we rarely get more than 25%-ish of the population to even turn out to vote) but they aren't following policy, they aren't digging into how their representatives vote, and they aren't talking about - let alone thinking about! - politics on a daily basis.
What they might do is watch the news, sometimes they read headlines, and occasionally they watch speeches. They get their political knowledge from the bare periphery. That's one reason why FOX is so despicable; they full well know that their audience is likely listening only to them and they flat out lie to them all the dang time.
I'm more than happy to share any of the literature that shows just how utterly uninformed the average voter is, just MeMail me.
posted by cooker girl at 8:02 AM on August 23 [28 favorites]
Whoever is producing this deserves an Emmy.
Her name is Stephanie Cutter.
posted by jgirl at 8:16 AM on August 23 [12 favorites]
Her name is Stephanie Cutter.
posted by jgirl at 8:16 AM on August 23 [12 favorites]
Does the progressive population of the united states tend to live in blue, red or purple states?
It's an interesting question - I'm not sure anyone has done a census of this. But if we think of some swing states:
Michigan has a couple of cities known for being lefty/progressive (Traverse City and Ann Arbor)
PA elected Fetterman who ran as a progressive (obviously that hasn't exactly worked out how people imagined, but still, he ran as a progressive)
North Carolina has two places with lefty populations - Asheville and the Research Triangle area.
I don't know the other swing states as well, though Atlanta has the largest LGBTQ+ population in the south.
posted by coffeecat at 8:18 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
It's an interesting question - I'm not sure anyone has done a census of this. But if we think of some swing states:
Michigan has a couple of cities known for being lefty/progressive (Traverse City and Ann Arbor)
PA elected Fetterman who ran as a progressive (obviously that hasn't exactly worked out how people imagined, but still, he ran as a progressive)
North Carolina has two places with lefty populations - Asheville and the Research Triangle area.
I don't know the other swing states as well, though Atlanta has the largest LGBTQ+ population in the south.
posted by coffeecat at 8:18 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
I was really struck at how hard the prime time programming last night went after gun violence. Wednesday night's introduction video for Tim Walz featured him firing a gun. Last night's programming featured so many voices talking about the need for common sense controls on gun use. It was striking, emotional, and I was glad to see it.
My overall impression is that Kamala Harris is the candidate of promising the possible. And if she can use this opportunity to bring gun control forward, I'm all here for it. In 2021, the most recent year for which complete data is available, 48,830 people died from gun-related injuries in the U.S.. This is a tragedy we have lived with for too long and have the power to change. I believe government can tackle many things - we can certainly walk and chew gum. But it is still good to see that this is where they chose to put the focus when they new a prime time audience was watching (and hoping for Beyoncé).
posted by meinvt at 8:20 AM on August 23 [9 favorites]
My overall impression is that Kamala Harris is the candidate of promising the possible. And if she can use this opportunity to bring gun control forward, I'm all here for it. In 2021, the most recent year for which complete data is available, 48,830 people died from gun-related injuries in the U.S.. This is a tragedy we have lived with for too long and have the power to change. I believe government can tackle many things - we can certainly walk and chew gum. But it is still good to see that this is where they chose to put the focus when they new a prime time audience was watching (and hoping for Beyoncé).
posted by meinvt at 8:20 AM on August 23 [9 favorites]
Does the progressive population of the united states tend to live in blue, red or purple states?
Yes.
Longer answer: there is no one "progressive population" locus, and there is also no one "progressive population".
Some people are passionate about the rights of Palestinians.
Some people are passionate about LGBTQ issues.
Some people are passionate about reproductive rights.
Some people are passionate about economic stability.
Some people are passionate about the rights of animals.
Some people are passionate about the rights of indigenous people.
Some people are passionate about creating a universal health care system.
Some people are passionate about religious tolerance.
Some people are passionate about completely overhauling the economic system entirely.
Some people are passionate about completely overhauling the government entirely.
Some people are passionate about immigration issues.
Some people are passionate about housing reform.
Et cetera.
You can find people in all of these groups, and then some, everywhere in the country. And while odds are that members of one group might agree with members of the other groups, they may not be as active on those other issues. There is also no guarantee that they would agree on all other issues, and might even disagree.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:22 AM on August 23 [22 favorites]
Yes.
Longer answer: there is no one "progressive population" locus, and there is also no one "progressive population".
Some people are passionate about the rights of Palestinians.
Some people are passionate about LGBTQ issues.
Some people are passionate about reproductive rights.
Some people are passionate about economic stability.
Some people are passionate about the rights of animals.
Some people are passionate about the rights of indigenous people.
Some people are passionate about creating a universal health care system.
Some people are passionate about religious tolerance.
Some people are passionate about completely overhauling the economic system entirely.
Some people are passionate about completely overhauling the government entirely.
Some people are passionate about immigration issues.
Some people are passionate about housing reform.
Et cetera.
You can find people in all of these groups, and then some, everywhere in the country. And while odds are that members of one group might agree with members of the other groups, they may not be as active on those other issues. There is also no guarantee that they would agree on all other issues, and might even disagree.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:22 AM on August 23 [22 favorites]
Also, none of us here are politicians, so being polite to the abstract concept of a low information,centrist voter (rather than an actual human being who stops by and has actual.feelings) seems unnecessary.
Had it occurred to you that the other folks posting here might know, love, and respect specific low-information voters and that calling our hard-working, well-meaning, but exhausted friends and loved ones morons serves no purpose other than to create division?
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 8:27 AM on August 23 [28 favorites]
Had it occurred to you that the other folks posting here might know, love, and respect specific low-information voters and that calling our hard-working, well-meaning, but exhausted friends and loved ones morons serves no purpose other than to create division?
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 8:27 AM on August 23 [28 favorites]
As a great example of the idea of the "lumpiness" of "progressive populations," NY (and NYC) have very Democratic majorities now. However, in both the case of Hochul and Adams, they have elected corporate/centrist/anti-socialist leaders that don't really reflect the progressive elements* in their areas. Minnesota has been doing a lot with a blue/purple state and a one-person lead in the state senate. Are there more progressives in Minnesota versus New York? Not really. As the old comparison goes, there are more Republicans in California than there are Republicans in Texas, and there are more Democrats in Texas than there are Democrats in New York.
*to echo EmpressCallipygos, what a "progressive" person means is very much debatable, but yes, they're everywhere, just like conservatives and fascists are everywhere as well.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:28 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
*to echo EmpressCallipygos, what a "progressive" person means is very much debatable, but yes, they're everywhere, just like conservatives and fascists are everywhere as well.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:28 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
because it worked so well when we called them deplorables.
posted by philip-random at 8:33 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 8:33 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
because it worked so well when we called them deplorables.
Okay, pet-peeve time: I am not a HRC fan, but she was 100% right on that quote:
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:39 AM on August 23 [32 favorites]
Okay, pet-peeve time: I am not a HRC fan, but she was 100% right on that quote:
You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. (Laughter/applause) Right? (Laughter/applause) They're racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic – you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people – now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks – they are irredeemable, but thankfully, they are not America.She's saying that there are people that supported Trump because he misaimed real frustration with a broken system and there are people that supported Trump because they just want to hurt people. If anything, that view has been totally vindicated over the last eight years. Clinton was saying that one should try to persuade folks that are misaimed, but they should NOT try to capture the racist, homophobic, xenophobic, antisemitic vote. We still have Democrats trying to capture that section of the electorate with, "You can't insult your voting base . . . a little transphobia is understandable." Any attempt to understand the two baskets of people voting for Trump is necessary for what messages should be attempted . . . and which should not.
But the "other" basket – the other basket – and I know because I look at this crowd I see friends from all over America here: I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas and – as well as, you know, New York and California – but that "other" basket of people are people who feel the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures; and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but – he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:39 AM on August 23 [32 favorites]
The deplorables thing lost far fewer votes than the campaign deciding to essentially drop out of campaigning in swing states.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 8:40 AM on August 23 [13 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 8:40 AM on August 23 [13 favorites]
Excluding someone from the coalition because they are “racist” depends very much on the working definition of “racist.” It sounds as if we have agreed that “racist” is a fixed identity, unchangeable without a massive penance and even then probably a lifelong marker. I have not agreed to that and would not.
If “racist” is earned by support for, or lack of opposition to, a certain measure, then what measures qualify?
Does it mean that we cannot have a meaningful exchange beyond “fuck off and die” with someone who voted for Trump in 2016?
And, having gone no-contact with all the people we identified thusly as toxic, do we have a governing majority? If the answer is “no,” can we be content with the moral high ground as our recompense for having no say in electoral politics?
posted by argybarg at 8:40 AM on August 23 [12 favorites]
If “racist” is earned by support for, or lack of opposition to, a certain measure, then what measures qualify?
Does it mean that we cannot have a meaningful exchange beyond “fuck off and die” with someone who voted for Trump in 2016?
And, having gone no-contact with all the people we identified thusly as toxic, do we have a governing majority? If the answer is “no,” can we be content with the moral high ground as our recompense for having no say in electoral politics?
posted by argybarg at 8:40 AM on August 23 [12 favorites]
Democratic-oriented groups are less likely than the average American to live in a rural area (26% of U.S. adults live in rural areas, compared with 21% or fewer among the Democratic groups). From Beyond Red vs. Blue: The Political Typology, a Pew study.
Most Liberal States 2024
posted by cooker girl at 8:42 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
Most Liberal States 2024
posted by cooker girl at 8:42 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
I always parsed the term “low information voter” as someone who is incurious and happily consuming what the TV wants them to know, not someone curious about the world who would very much prefer to learn more but doesn’t have the time.
posted by emelenjr at 8:44 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
posted by emelenjr at 8:44 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
Why are people defending the Dems visibly going backwards on policy and representation, even compared to themselves just a couple years ago, with such vehemence against the left?
This clearly just isn't about vibes anymore, this is turning into a backlash.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 8:44 AM on August 23 [8 favorites]
This clearly just isn't about vibes anymore, this is turning into a backlash.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 8:44 AM on August 23 [8 favorites]
Had it occurred to you that the other folks posting here might know, love, and respect specific low-information voters and that calling our hard-working, well-meaning, but exhausted friends and loved ones morons serves no purpose other than to create division?
I know and love some Trump voters. I am not going to ask people not to generalize about Trump voters being vicious, stupid, and willfully ignorant, even though those particular folks aren't.
The way I see it, if someone sees a trans person's existence as an "issue" to compromise on, or is happy to support policies that will kill them or their loved ones, or make the world vastly harder to live in for a parent and their kids and grandkids I am not going ask them consider those people's feelings or individual virtues when discussing them in the abstract.
Excluding someone from the coalition because they are “racist” depends very much on the working definition of “racist.” It sounds as if we have agreed that “racist” is a fixed identity, unchangeable without a massive penance and even then probably a lifelong marker. I have not agreed to that and would not.
That isn't something anyone has agreed to or even suggested.
posted by pattern juggler at 8:49 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
I know and love some Trump voters. I am not going to ask people not to generalize about Trump voters being vicious, stupid, and willfully ignorant, even though those particular folks aren't.
The way I see it, if someone sees a trans person's existence as an "issue" to compromise on, or is happy to support policies that will kill them or their loved ones, or make the world vastly harder to live in for a parent and their kids and grandkids I am not going ask them consider those people's feelings or individual virtues when discussing them in the abstract.
Excluding someone from the coalition because they are “racist” depends very much on the working definition of “racist.” It sounds as if we have agreed that “racist” is a fixed identity, unchangeable without a massive penance and even then probably a lifelong marker. I have not agreed to that and would not.
That isn't something anyone has agreed to or even suggested.
posted by pattern juggler at 8:49 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
Longer answer: there is no one "progressive population" locus, and there is also no one "progressive population".
Also consider there are many progressive Americans in parts of the country that are otherwise deep red on the map. My parents’ politics are only slightly to the right of mine and they live in a county where you can look at election results and practically name every person who ticked the box for a democrat. The running joke is that the local Democratic Party meeting just needs someone’s kitchen table and figuring out whose turn it is to bring bars. It’s that small, red and rural. But my parents and others like them are still out there and aligned with positions that wouldn’t be out of place in more stereotypically liberal parts of the country.
posted by nathan_teske at 8:55 AM on August 23 [7 favorites]
Also consider there are many progressive Americans in parts of the country that are otherwise deep red on the map. My parents’ politics are only slightly to the right of mine and they live in a county where you can look at election results and practically name every person who ticked the box for a democrat. The running joke is that the local Democratic Party meeting just needs someone’s kitchen table and figuring out whose turn it is to bring bars. It’s that small, red and rural. But my parents and others like them are still out there and aligned with positions that wouldn’t be out of place in more stereotypically liberal parts of the country.
posted by nathan_teske at 8:55 AM on August 23 [7 favorites]
I know and love some Trump voters.
You're responding to me, but I never said anything about Trump voters or people with anti-trans sentiments? The low-info voters in my life are just people whose lives have become very full of non-politics stuff, especially since the pandemic. Some struggle with chronic illness. Some have had parents take a turn for the worse and must care for them. Several lost their middle-class jobs and find themselves in financial precarity. At least two of these people are themselves trans. Most of these people know Harris from her 2019 run and as a VP who's been not so visible and they have not had the free time to focus on primary-season election stuff. None of them are "morons." Most of them espouse progressive politics. Harris's speech was, for several of them, their introduction to who she is and what she stands for.
Also it is just wild to me that we have to defend the idea that it's not ok to throw around terms like "moron" when describing other people.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 8:58 AM on August 23 [18 favorites]
You're responding to me, but I never said anything about Trump voters or people with anti-trans sentiments? The low-info voters in my life are just people whose lives have become very full of non-politics stuff, especially since the pandemic. Some struggle with chronic illness. Some have had parents take a turn for the worse and must care for them. Several lost their middle-class jobs and find themselves in financial precarity. At least two of these people are themselves trans. Most of these people know Harris from her 2019 run and as a VP who's been not so visible and they have not had the free time to focus on primary-season election stuff. None of them are "morons." Most of them espouse progressive politics. Harris's speech was, for several of them, their introduction to who she is and what she stands for.
Also it is just wild to me that we have to defend the idea that it's not ok to throw around terms like "moron" when describing other people.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 8:58 AM on August 23 [18 favorites]
it is just wild to me that we have to defend the idea that it's not ok to throw around terms like "moron" when describing other people.
Righetousness is a hell of a drug.
posted by argybarg at 9:03 AM on August 23 [8 favorites]
Righetousness is a hell of a drug.
posted by argybarg at 9:03 AM on August 23 [8 favorites]
Since I brought up Hasanabi being booted out of the DNC, in the middle of livestream, but not at the exact moment, he just posted the edit of it all happening. I've seen it mentioned that during the stream he had a viewership size larger than CNN and NBC combined (600k?).
posted by cendawanita at 9:12 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 9:12 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
Some videos
Kamala Harris is "Just Normal" - Narrated By Jason Bateman
Kamala Harris in the barber shop 💈
posted by cashman at 9:17 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
Kamala Harris is "Just Normal" - Narrated By Jason Bateman
Kamala Harris in the barber shop 💈
posted by cashman at 9:17 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
I just wanted to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you.
posted by The Bellman at 9:21 AM on August 23 [5 favorites]
posted by The Bellman at 9:21 AM on August 23 [5 favorites]
The barber shop video is good to me. I see now after posting that it appears to be from a visit from October 2019.
posted by cashman at 9:24 AM on August 23 [1 favorite]
posted by cashman at 9:24 AM on August 23 [1 favorite]
AP: Kamala Harris’ racial and cultural firsts were onstage throughout the Democratic convention
AP: ‘It’s our time': As Harris accepts the nomination, many women say a female president is long overdue
posted by cashman at 9:28 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
AP: ‘It’s our time': As Harris accepts the nomination, many women say a female president is long overdue
posted by cashman at 9:28 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
To the question about why people are defending the Dems on stepping back from favorite Republican culture-war talking points: I am willing to give Dems some space to reframe, and am not seeing a backlash or significant lurch to the right so far.
The new emphasis on privacy resonates for me: Stay out of people's bedrooms, leave them alone with their doctors, stop worrying about their genitals, quit being weird, and mind your own damn business.
(And I'm so far behind on DNC speeches, who did or didn't get the mic is extremely academic to me. I don't love that the death penalty was dropped off the party platform, but that strikes me as a posture that was never a priority anyway.)
posted by mersen at 9:33 AM on August 23 [11 favorites]
The new emphasis on privacy resonates for me: Stay out of people's bedrooms, leave them alone with their doctors, stop worrying about their genitals, quit being weird, and mind your own damn business.
(And I'm so far behind on DNC speeches, who did or didn't get the mic is extremely academic to me. I don't love that the death penalty was dropped off the party platform, but that strikes me as a posture that was never a priority anyway.)
posted by mersen at 9:33 AM on August 23 [11 favorites]
[x] "I live across the street from a historic Black cemetery. When Kamala takes the podium to accept the nomination, I’ll have my speaker up loud and my door wide open. So many of the people buried there never had voting rights and I want to share this moment."
posted by cashman at 9:35 AM on August 23 [15 favorites]
posted by cashman at 9:35 AM on August 23 [15 favorites]
[x] "As a former MAGA activist and pundit: I worked very hard to ensure Sec. Clinton was not elected. I made vitriolic, abhorrent remarks about her, publicly and privately; I was wrong, I acknowledge my mistake, and want to apologize to Sec. Clinton.
I will not repeat my errors with VP Harris; it’s why I agreed, without hesitation, to serve as a co-chair of the Republicans for Harris FL team."
And it's posted in reply to this great photo from last night, that Hillary reposted.
posted by cashman at 9:37 AM on August 23 [16 favorites]
I will not repeat my errors with VP Harris; it’s why I agreed, without hesitation, to serve as a co-chair of the Republicans for Harris FL team."
And it's posted in reply to this great photo from last night, that Hillary reposted.
posted by cashman at 9:37 AM on August 23 [16 favorites]
You're responding to me, but I never said anything about Trump voters or people with anti-trans sentiments?
My point with regards to Trump voters is that specific individuals being decent doesn't mean you can't generalize about the larger political cohort of which they are a part.
In the context of the speech, the ... common clay of the new west it was meant to appeal to are apparently "centrists" who would be scared off by trans people and Palestinians and pleased about hearing how lethal the US military is. Those do not strike me as people I am going to chide people for not respecting as a mass.
posted by pattern juggler at 9:42 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
My point with regards to Trump voters is that specific individuals being decent doesn't mean you can't generalize about the larger political cohort of which they are a part.
In the context of the speech, the ... common clay of the new west it was meant to appeal to are apparently "centrists" who would be scared off by trans people and Palestinians and pleased about hearing how lethal the US military is. Those do not strike me as people I am going to chide people for not respecting as a mass.
posted by pattern juggler at 9:42 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
I always parsed the term “low information voter” as someone who is incurious and happily consuming what the TV wants them to know, not someone curious about the world who would very much prefer to learn more but doesn’t have the time.
I also include many people with a great deal of enthusiasm but who consume mis-information.
posted by os tuberoes at 9:42 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
I also include many people with a great deal of enthusiasm but who consume mis-information.
posted by os tuberoes at 9:42 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
and am not seeing a backlash or significant lurch to the right so far.
not so much a lurch to the right as a collapse to the centre. I think it's entirely possible that the near future of American politics sees a continued and accelerated collapse of the Republican party (as we know it) with the Democratic party expanding to an absurdly large tent ... which will eventually collapse as this new coalition divides into a fresh new version of right (actual conservatives as opposed to Trumpian fools) and left (the rest).
Maybe if we play things right, the "centre" will have shifted a little to the left once all the dust has settled.
posted by philip-random at 9:44 AM on August 23 [12 favorites]
not so much a lurch to the right as a collapse to the centre. I think it's entirely possible that the near future of American politics sees a continued and accelerated collapse of the Republican party (as we know it) with the Democratic party expanding to an absurdly large tent ... which will eventually collapse as this new coalition divides into a fresh new version of right (actual conservatives as opposed to Trumpian fools) and left (the rest).
Maybe if we play things right, the "centre" will have shifted a little to the left once all the dust has settled.
posted by philip-random at 9:44 AM on August 23 [12 favorites]
My brain sees things first in choreographies, verbs, and then fine-tunes to things like nouns if necessary.
There's this thing that humans do where things or persons sufficiently dissimilar to themselves get downgraded, flattened, hyperbolized, dismissed, and often abused. When challenged on that, the defense is that the subject's behaviour warrants it. The attacking speech is hardly ever about their behaviour though, it's usually referencing their identity or being.
It's an old trope that people who see power as the end will depend on stoking the populous into seeing certain identities as a threat, regardless of behaviour, and set themselves or their ideas up as a protection against that threat. It's efficient and easily cruel. It relies on referring to a world that doesn't actually exist and selling that as fact. It relies so heavily on the idea of a good/evil binary.
People who see power as the means, though, will lay a groundwork message, trying to woo the populous into contributing their own efforts to a shared goal. It's messy, slow, and consistently hobbled by the constraints of pluralistic reality. It relies on curiosity and good faith.
So, I see these behaviours all over. The first choreography gets my guard up, even as I can, in certain cases, remind myself that the values they are espousing are my values, too, and it might not be about domination, but about freedom from domination. The second choreography soothes me, even as it demands more from me than just insisting on a singular vision. It HAS ROOM for me, in my complexity.
I have doubts and fears galore about a Harris administration's approach to many issues dear to my heart, but it has not gone unnoticed how strongly the programming I saw from the DNC repeated the idea that a basis of shared humanity and shared responsibility is an important place to start. Behaviours don't happen in a vacuum. Fear and material insecurity increase vulnerability to being drawn into the simplified and cruel patterns of relating to each other. Full bellies, a place to live, healthcare, education, autonomy, political enfranchisement, and an awareness that the person next to you, even if they suck, is your neighbor... these are roots, not fruits, of an inclusive society, and they require continuous consent from as many as possible.
In short, I recognized more of the second choreography in the messaging than I had expected.
And also, careful of the easy urge to bully your way to social justice.
posted by droomoord at 9:44 AM on August 23 [17 favorites]
There's this thing that humans do where things or persons sufficiently dissimilar to themselves get downgraded, flattened, hyperbolized, dismissed, and often abused. When challenged on that, the defense is that the subject's behaviour warrants it. The attacking speech is hardly ever about their behaviour though, it's usually referencing their identity or being.
It's an old trope that people who see power as the end will depend on stoking the populous into seeing certain identities as a threat, regardless of behaviour, and set themselves or their ideas up as a protection against that threat. It's efficient and easily cruel. It relies on referring to a world that doesn't actually exist and selling that as fact. It relies so heavily on the idea of a good/evil binary.
People who see power as the means, though, will lay a groundwork message, trying to woo the populous into contributing their own efforts to a shared goal. It's messy, slow, and consistently hobbled by the constraints of pluralistic reality. It relies on curiosity and good faith.
So, I see these behaviours all over. The first choreography gets my guard up, even as I can, in certain cases, remind myself that the values they are espousing are my values, too, and it might not be about domination, but about freedom from domination. The second choreography soothes me, even as it demands more from me than just insisting on a singular vision. It HAS ROOM for me, in my complexity.
I have doubts and fears galore about a Harris administration's approach to many issues dear to my heart, but it has not gone unnoticed how strongly the programming I saw from the DNC repeated the idea that a basis of shared humanity and shared responsibility is an important place to start. Behaviours don't happen in a vacuum. Fear and material insecurity increase vulnerability to being drawn into the simplified and cruel patterns of relating to each other. Full bellies, a place to live, healthcare, education, autonomy, political enfranchisement, and an awareness that the person next to you, even if they suck, is your neighbor... these are roots, not fruits, of an inclusive society, and they require continuous consent from as many as possible.
In short, I recognized more of the second choreography in the messaging than I had expected.
And also, careful of the easy urge to bully your way to social justice.
posted by droomoord at 9:44 AM on August 23 [17 favorites]
In the UK, we've seen trans rights being treated as an election issue, subject to debate. The result was a massive spike in violence against trans people. Lies and disinformation surrounding trans people is one of the main pipelines into the modern fascist movement, thanks to high profile transphobes like Musk and Rowling.
if we're speaking to the uk, the thing that was notable was how many anti-trans bigots were the face of labour: the quisling wes streeting, the cowardly keir starmer, the "it's okay to hate" louise haigh... it's not subject to debate there between tories and labour who are in agreement with the ends, differing only on how many rainbows to paint. the election issue is simply the political class espousing hate and cheerily banning care for transgender people based on motivated reasoning.
the american democratic party isn't that far gone yet, but every outreach to republicans, every statement of "we've got your back" while doing precious little, every botched response to the institutionally anti-trans nytimes definitely makes it seem less like the dems are holding the cards close to the vest and more the dems don't see us as that important a constituency.
and why should they? our votes are easily lost in an error of margin. those who would see trans rights as a nice to have outnumber those who view it as a make or break issue.
there are a few other captive constituencies like that this year.
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:48 AM on August 23 [10 favorites]
if we're speaking to the uk, the thing that was notable was how many anti-trans bigots were the face of labour: the quisling wes streeting, the cowardly keir starmer, the "it's okay to hate" louise haigh... it's not subject to debate there between tories and labour who are in agreement with the ends, differing only on how many rainbows to paint. the election issue is simply the political class espousing hate and cheerily banning care for transgender people based on motivated reasoning.
the american democratic party isn't that far gone yet, but every outreach to republicans, every statement of "we've got your back" while doing precious little, every botched response to the institutionally anti-trans nytimes definitely makes it seem less like the dems are holding the cards close to the vest and more the dems don't see us as that important a constituency.
and why should they? our votes are easily lost in an error of margin. those who would see trans rights as a nice to have outnumber those who view it as a make or break issue.
there are a few other captive constituencies like that this year.
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:48 AM on August 23 [10 favorites]
i don't mean to come across as nihilist: but i will say seeing the number of republican speakers over any trans or palestinian speakers makes it clear who they're prioritizing in this election. i get the cold equations here. i see the platform and it's clear that there's some motion towards safeguarding trans rights, but when they're celebrating sesta/fosta and kosa is coming into play, it definitely feels like they're not seeing the whole picture here.
and i get it. one trans speaker and fox news, newsmax, oann, and the nytimes would make hay over how radically left the dnc was. even if the speaker was someone painfully centrist like charlotte clymer, or even mainstream dem like zooey zephyr or sarah mcbride saying very centrist things like, "mind your own business."
it's about optics. trans people should maybe be seen as stock photography representation but not heard is the message we've been receiving from the parties for a while now.
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:53 AM on August 23 [11 favorites]
and i get it. one trans speaker and fox news, newsmax, oann, and the nytimes would make hay over how radically left the dnc was. even if the speaker was someone painfully centrist like charlotte clymer, or even mainstream dem like zooey zephyr or sarah mcbride saying very centrist things like, "mind your own business."
it's about optics. trans people should maybe be seen as stock photography representation but not heard is the message we've been receiving from the parties for a while now.
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:53 AM on August 23 [11 favorites]
In my interpretation they prioritized their families which I think was intended to draw a strong contrast against Trump.
posted by girlmightlive at 9:57 AM on August 23 [5 favorites]
posted by girlmightlive at 9:57 AM on August 23 [5 favorites]
And also, careful of the easy urge to bully your way to social justice.
I feel like the needs of the vulnerable to live freely and not be subject to violence are far more important than the right of those who would harm them not to be "bullied".
In fact, a major part of antifascist action is bullying fascists. Mocking and demoralizing them, making them feel unsafe and uncomfortable, and when necessary making them physically unsafe are all useful tools in preventing them from recruiting, coordinating, and from intimidating communities they hate.
Of course, not everyone is a fascist, and not all forms of "bullying" or violence are ethical or effective, but I don't think a blanket condemnation on it makes sense.
posted by pattern juggler at 9:59 AM on August 23 [7 favorites]
I feel like the needs of the vulnerable to live freely and not be subject to violence are far more important than the right of those who would harm them not to be "bullied".
In fact, a major part of antifascist action is bullying fascists. Mocking and demoralizing them, making them feel unsafe and uncomfortable, and when necessary making them physically unsafe are all useful tools in preventing them from recruiting, coordinating, and from intimidating communities they hate.
Of course, not everyone is a fascist, and not all forms of "bullying" or violence are ethical or effective, but I don't think a blanket condemnation on it makes sense.
posted by pattern juggler at 9:59 AM on August 23 [7 favorites]
Trump just said: My Administration will be great for women and their reproductive rights.
posted by girlmightlive at 9:59 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
posted by girlmightlive at 9:59 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
trump says a lot of things. the best things. the greatest things.
almost none of them are true. especially when he uses the adjective "great".
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:00 AM on August 23 [4 favorites]
almost none of them are true. especially when he uses the adjective "great".
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:00 AM on August 23 [4 favorites]
I agree with what you are saying except the part where you missed what I am saying.
posted by droomoord at 10:01 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
posted by droomoord at 10:01 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
He still has not revealed if or how he voted on Florida’s abortion referendum. This is a monster they created.
posted by girlmightlive at 10:02 AM on August 23 [1 favorite]
posted by girlmightlive at 10:02 AM on August 23 [1 favorite]
He still has not revealed if or how he voted on Florida’s abortion referendum.
I can tell you he did not vote on it either way, as it is on the November ballot.
posted by grubi at 10:09 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
I can tell you he did not vote on it either way, as it is on the November ballot.
posted by grubi at 10:09 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
So when, exactly are Palestinians and trans people and their allies (actual allies, not those of convenience) allowed to be their authentic, angry selves? When are these issues allowed to be as big a threat to democracy as everything else?
Because if I had to guess how this will go, it definitely won't be during the campaign, almost assuredly will not be part of the transition, and I'd bet a million bucks that if Harris wins, the wrong time to make noise will extend through her entire term.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:16 AM on August 23 [11 favorites]
Because if I had to guess how this will go, it definitely won't be during the campaign, almost assuredly will not be part of the transition, and I'd bet a million bucks that if Harris wins, the wrong time to make noise will extend through her entire term.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:16 AM on August 23 [11 favorites]
Man, I don't even understand how she would feel beholden to activists *after* she wins in a way that will influence her to just decide to overturn over a half century of bipartisan foreign policy towards Israel without a strong internal motivation to do so.
posted by Selena777 at 10:20 AM on August 23 [4 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 10:20 AM on August 23 [4 favorites]
Sam Levine on xitter: "Lawyers who spoke on behalf of a new rule in front of the GA state board of elections this week are already suggesting there is legal justification both for entire election boards and individual election board members to refuse to certify elections (Guardian Article)"
Democracy Docket: What Happens If Election Officials Refuse to Certify Results?
posted by cashman at 10:23 AM on August 23 [4 favorites]
Democracy Docket: What Happens If Election Officials Refuse to Certify Results?
posted by cashman at 10:23 AM on August 23 [4 favorites]
So when, exactly are Palestinians and trans people and their allies (actual allies, not those of convenience) allowed to be their authentic, angry selves? When are these issues allowed to be as big a threat to democracy as everything else?
Because if I had to guess how this will go, it definitely won't be during the campaign, almost assuredly will not be part of the transition, and I'd bet a million bucks that if Harris wins, the wrong time to make noise will extend through her entire term.
we will be granted about 15 minutes to speak (jointly) at half-past never. it's the sulu/chekhov solution
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:25 AM on August 23 [5 favorites]
Because if I had to guess how this will go, it definitely won't be during the campaign, almost assuredly will not be part of the transition, and I'd bet a million bucks that if Harris wins, the wrong time to make noise will extend through her entire term.
we will be granted about 15 minutes to speak (jointly) at half-past never. it's the sulu/chekhov solution
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:25 AM on August 23 [5 favorites]
Then to be more specific, he hasn’t said how he intends to vote on the abortion referendum. He said he will “soon.”
posted by girlmightlive at 10:25 AM on August 23
posted by girlmightlive at 10:25 AM on August 23
I am happy for you to start tearing down the new president the very moment we know who it is. I'm here for the vibes only to fight fascism: I would prefer people not purposefully tank the less fascist candidate. Once they win, feel free to tear them a new asshole, by all means.
posted by rikschell at 10:30 AM on August 23 [21 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 10:30 AM on August 23 [21 favorites]
It is worth reading Rep Romman's thread reflecting on the convention. For those who don't want to/can't give Twitter clicks, she ends by saying:
posted by coffeecat at 10:33 AM on August 23 [23 favorites]
I know a lot of people are dismayed, but now isn’t the time to lose hope. Hundreds of delegates committed to being ceasefire delegates. These are incredibly engaged people. The outpouring of support today from elected officials and organizations shows our voters have changed. And while the gap between leadership and voters is large, our coalition cannot be ignored. Now is the time to solidify and protect our coalition. The opposition wants us to surrender and ignore all of this. I refuse. And though the cadence of this work shifted around the timeline of elections, the work itself does not change. Until the mass murder of Palestinians ends and humanitarian aid reaches every person in Gaza who needs it, this work continues. On my end, I fly home tomorrow and will spend another weekend canvassing. You can help!I get it's easy to be cynical. It's also frustrating how slow progress unfolds. But (admittedly in a very different context), I have experienced success in changing people by simultaneously challenging and supporting them.
posted by coffeecat at 10:33 AM on August 23 [23 favorites]
I'm a trans person who has been horrified enough by the right's rhetoric over the last 10 years to move 1000 miles away from the South.
And I do not care that no trans people spoke at the DNC. There was forceful support for LGBTQ+ rights in *many* speeches. There was forceful support for bodily autonomy and medical privacy in *many* speeches. I do not want to be a target of the culture wars anymore. I don't need support for my rights to come in the form of escalating and responding to culture war bullshit.
Being trans isn't my entire life, either. The speeches last night about freedom from gun violence was cathartic. Like many I've been horrified by the way we've responded to mass shootings in this country. I'm glad the Sandy Hook teacher was able to talk about her experience on that day. I'm glad the mother of the Uvalde student was able to speak. I've *worried* about them, genuinely, truly worried and wished for their peace without being able to know who they are.
That's not all of my thoughts, but I can't write forever. I'll close with one of the points Tim Walz made: We can compromise without compromising our values. Sadly, making a big deal out of trans right specifically just adds more clips to the right wing culture war bullshit machine. Personally, I'm willing to compromise being in the spotlight when I also hear such strong support for LGBTQ+ rights, bodily autonomy, school teachers, parents, reforming gun laws, and many of the other items on my personal wish list
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 10:34 AM on August 23 [88 favorites]
And I do not care that no trans people spoke at the DNC. There was forceful support for LGBTQ+ rights in *many* speeches. There was forceful support for bodily autonomy and medical privacy in *many* speeches. I do not want to be a target of the culture wars anymore. I don't need support for my rights to come in the form of escalating and responding to culture war bullshit.
Being trans isn't my entire life, either. The speeches last night about freedom from gun violence was cathartic. Like many I've been horrified by the way we've responded to mass shootings in this country. I'm glad the Sandy Hook teacher was able to talk about her experience on that day. I'm glad the mother of the Uvalde student was able to speak. I've *worried* about them, genuinely, truly worried and wished for their peace without being able to know who they are.
That's not all of my thoughts, but I can't write forever. I'll close with one of the points Tim Walz made: We can compromise without compromising our values. Sadly, making a big deal out of trans right specifically just adds more clips to the right wing culture war bullshit machine. Personally, I'm willing to compromise being in the spotlight when I also hear such strong support for LGBTQ+ rights, bodily autonomy, school teachers, parents, reforming gun laws, and many of the other items on my personal wish list
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 10:34 AM on August 23 [88 favorites]
Nothing we say on MetaFilter will tank either candidate, sadly. Otherwise Trump would have spontaneously combusted.
In the larger world, I am okay with doing what can be done to push Harris left while we have some amount of leverage.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:35 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
In the larger world, I am okay with doing what can be done to push Harris left while we have some amount of leverage.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:35 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
Nobody said anything about tearing them down! For fucks sake, people, this is about groups being denied a chance at meaningful representation, even when they were represented before, even to spread messages of love and unity. Which was not only denied, but the conversations were misrepresented and lied about by the party!
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:36 AM on August 23 [10 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:36 AM on August 23 [10 favorites]
MetaFilter: success in changing people by simultaneously challenging and supporting them.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 10:37 AM on August 23
posted by mrjohnmuller at 10:37 AM on August 23
There's a lot of lionizing of protest, going back to the anti-Vietnam movement. It feels good to take to the streets. But when was the last time it actually worked?
I do think the Black Lives Matter protests educated some people and put a little fear and doubt into some cops. But Occupy, the Iraq War protests, the Women's March, every other example in my lifetime I can think of had no effect on policy.
posted by rikschell at 10:40 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
I do think the Black Lives Matter protests educated some people and put a little fear and doubt into some cops. But Occupy, the Iraq War protests, the Women's March, every other example in my lifetime I can think of had no effect on policy.
posted by rikschell at 10:40 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
Um. Civil rights? Also, many countries that aren't the United States?
Metafilter has been consolidating around a position of "voting for Democrats is the only acceptable way to participate in politics" for a while, but this is one of the more blatant expressions of it.
posted by sagc at 10:43 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
Metafilter has been consolidating around a position of "voting for Democrats is the only acceptable way to participate in politics" for a while, but this is one of the more blatant expressions of it.
posted by sagc at 10:43 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
"voting for Democrats is the only acceptable way to participate in politics"
In a first-past-the-post system, what do you suppose is the alternative? In FPTP, it will always be two major parties/choices.
posted by grubi at 10:47 AM on August 23 [4 favorites]
In a first-past-the-post system, what do you suppose is the alternative? In FPTP, it will always be two major parties/choices.
posted by grubi at 10:47 AM on August 23 [4 favorites]
It feels good to take to the streets. But when was the last time it actually worked?
Um. Civil rights? Also, many countries that aren't the United States?
Must be a skill issue indeed. Indonesians just got its legislators to u-turn on a constitutional reform (this same week in fact), Kenyans got the president to u-turn on a finance bill (a couple of months ago), Bangladeshis literally just chased out its president (last month).
posted by cendawanita at 10:48 AM on August 23 [9 favorites]
Um. Civil rights? Also, many countries that aren't the United States?
Must be a skill issue indeed. Indonesians just got its legislators to u-turn on a constitutional reform (this same week in fact), Kenyans got the president to u-turn on a finance bill (a couple of months ago), Bangladeshis literally just chased out its president (last month).
posted by cendawanita at 10:48 AM on August 23 [9 favorites]
I just saw a case today where a cop was being prosecuted for shooting a young airman who answered his door holding a firearm. What used to be virtually unheard of is something that now takes place and I'm sorry, I think it was because of the protests.
posted by Selena777 at 10:49 AM on August 23 [9 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 10:49 AM on August 23 [9 favorites]
In a first-past-the-post system, what do you suppose is the alternative? In FPTP, it will always be two major parties/choices.
I think you focused on "Democrats" when the word in question was "participate."
posted by Gadarene at 10:50 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
I think you focused on "Democrats" when the word in question was "participate."
posted by Gadarene at 10:50 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
Do I think Americans should take to the streets? That's not my business. But there's something about capture and cooptation plus exceptionalism that makes what's happening in the rest of the world holds little value both as an equal or even a model.
posted by cendawanita at 10:51 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 10:51 AM on August 23 [3 favorites]
"No protests, only vibes" is how Harris loses this election.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:51 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:51 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
being trans isn't my whole life either, and i accept that there are "good"/effective reasons to minimize and erase references to trans people as a political target.
this doesn't mean i have to enjoy it. i can understand the calculations, i can appreciate why. as i mentioned above, it's clear that if they used more specific language or trans speakers,
the needs of the many, etc., etc., etc.
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:51 AM on August 23 [10 favorites]
this doesn't mean i have to enjoy it. i can understand the calculations, i can appreciate why. as i mentioned above, it's clear that if they used more specific language or trans speakers,
fox news, newsmax, oann, and the nytimes would make hay over how radically left the dnc was.i'm glad you are able to make more peace with it. i have too, in a different way. i understand that i am captive to the democratic party. i will drink my gin, think happy thoughts, and fill out the (D) bubbles on this election like i did every election before, and will for the forseeable future; i will continue send in letters and notes and expect little in return because the whole world is on fire and there's only so many hours in the day, and there are so few of us and there are so many of others.
the needs of the many, etc., etc., etc.
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:51 AM on August 23 [10 favorites]
what do you suppose is the alternative?
All the things you can do in addition to voting.
Showing up at local government meetings. Writing and calling your elected officials. Organizing. Protesting. Giving time and money to organizations that are trying to get things done outside of governmental channels.
posted by Jeanne at 10:53 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
All the things you can do in addition to voting.
Showing up at local government meetings. Writing and calling your elected officials. Organizing. Protesting. Giving time and money to organizations that are trying to get things done outside of governmental channels.
posted by Jeanne at 10:53 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
All the things you can do in addition to voting.
And at what point did people say that voting is the only thing one can do, and that those other things aren't valid? Someone was being reductive and it wasn't me.
posted by grubi at 10:55 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
And at what point did people say that voting is the only thing one can do, and that those other things aren't valid? Someone was being reductive and it wasn't me.
posted by grubi at 10:55 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
But when was the last time it actually worked?
I would argue (though there's never going to be concrete proof): last night. Months of the Uncommitted delegates doing a great and consistent and creative job of protesting kept the issue in the news and I believe engineered a situation where the party nominee had no choice but to address the matter. She did so in a way that I find disappointing, because she mostly just stated the party platform, but the previous presumptive nominee wouldn't even do that. It's hard not to see that as a direct result of Uncommitted protests.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 10:56 AM on August 23 [8 favorites]
I would argue (though there's never going to be concrete proof): last night. Months of the Uncommitted delegates doing a great and consistent and creative job of protesting kept the issue in the news and I believe engineered a situation where the party nominee had no choice but to address the matter. She did so in a way that I find disappointing, because she mostly just stated the party platform, but the previous presumptive nominee wouldn't even do that. It's hard not to see that as a direct result of Uncommitted protests.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 10:56 AM on August 23 [8 favorites]
Maybe the person who said protest has never achieved anything in their lifetime? maybe?
posted by sagc at 10:56 AM on August 23 [7 favorites]
posted by sagc at 10:56 AM on August 23 [7 favorites]
At one point, the president told senior staff that he would fire anyone discovered leaking negative stories about Harris to the media, said several aides who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private conversations. (Washington Post, yesterday, "The Reinvention of Kamala Harris" [gift link], which takes a while to get to how the WH/Biden/Biden's circle initially undermined the new VP.)
Also, as Anita Dunn, a former senior adviser to President Biden, puts it: "There wasn’t the level of understanding that she’s getting judged differently, she’s getting covered differently. Most vice presidents don’t get covered the way she did, with the same level of scrutiny. And so I don’t feel like we served her as well as we could have there at the beginning.” The article notes a turnaround in Spring 2022, after Biden issues that edict, and as Roe v. Wade rumors start and Harris takes lead on the administration’s abortion-rights plank.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:57 AM on August 23 [5 favorites]
Also, as Anita Dunn, a former senior adviser to President Biden, puts it: "There wasn’t the level of understanding that she’s getting judged differently, she’s getting covered differently. Most vice presidents don’t get covered the way she did, with the same level of scrutiny. And so I don’t feel like we served her as well as we could have there at the beginning.” The article notes a turnaround in Spring 2022, after Biden issues that edict, and as Roe v. Wade rumors start and Harris takes lead on the administration’s abortion-rights plank.
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:57 AM on August 23 [5 favorites]
I feel like the needs of the vulnerable to live freely and not be subject to violence are far more important than the right of those who would harm them not to be "bullied".
In fact, a major part of antifascist action is bullying fascists. Mocking and demoralizing them, making them feel unsafe and uncomfortable, and when necessary making them physically unsafe are all useful tools in preventing them from recruiting, coordinating, and from intimidating communities they hate.
Who are the fascists you're referring to in this particular instance, out of curiosity?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:01 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
In fact, a major part of antifascist action is bullying fascists. Mocking and demoralizing them, making them feel unsafe and uncomfortable, and when necessary making them physically unsafe are all useful tools in preventing them from recruiting, coordinating, and from intimidating communities they hate.
Who are the fascists you're referring to in this particular instance, out of curiosity?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:01 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
But when was the last time it actually worked?
There has been a sea-change in how police violence is perceived in this country. I don't think that happens without the George Floyd uprising.
I would also point to the AIDS crisis, where protestors forced it into public consciousness despite the efforts of the government to ignore it.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:05 AM on August 23 [18 favorites]
There has been a sea-change in how police violence is perceived in this country. I don't think that happens without the George Floyd uprising.
I would also point to the AIDS crisis, where protestors forced it into public consciousness despite the efforts of the government to ignore it.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:05 AM on August 23 [18 favorites]
METAFILTER: Someone was being reductive and it wasn't me.
posted by philip-random at 11:05 AM on August 23 [13 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 11:05 AM on August 23 [13 favorites]
Who are the fascists you're referring to in this particular instance, out of curiosity?
The ones that murdered Matthew Shepard, the ones that marched on Charlottesville, the ones who attacked the capital January 6th and the ines interested in rolling back basic human rights. The kind that have haunted the US as long as it has existed.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:16 AM on August 23 [4 favorites]
The ones that murdered Matthew Shepard, the ones that marched on Charlottesville, the ones who attacked the capital January 6th and the ines interested in rolling back basic human rights. The kind that have haunted the US as long as it has existed.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:16 AM on August 23 [4 favorites]
In fact, a major part of antifascist action is bullying fascists
Sadly. I personally think this may feel good (for the bully) and might show short-term gains, but ultimately, let's say Antifa wins the day. Then who's in charge? Bullies.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 11:20 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
Sadly. I personally think this may feel good (for the bully) and might show short-term gains, but ultimately, let's say Antifa wins the day. Then who's in charge? Bullies.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 11:20 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
But Occupy, the Iraq War protests, the Women's March, every other example in my lifetime I can think of had no effect on policy.
I guess you have to define what you mean by "worked" or "effect." The Women's March and #MeToo radicalized a lot of women, including some that sometimes vote GOP. We have seen since Roe fell some backlash against GOP candidates that are too far right on abortion.
Iraq war protests - again, it's hard to measure in any concrete way, but I think it's fair to say that there is a growing skepticism in the "goodness" of US military intervention, which had somewhat died down post-Vietnam by the 90s. The fact that both a number of people on the left/right of the political spectrum were not keen for the US to get too involved in Ukraine is perhaps a good indication of this.
Occupy - I'm not sure Bernie would have done as well as he did (and thus had the impact on the DNC agenda drafting process) in the 2020 primary had it not been for seeds planted in that movement. There is a lot in the Inflation Reduction Act that comes out of that agenda.
And yes, as others have pointed out, the Uncommitted movement has been considerably successful in getting Palestine into the conversation at the DNC, even if they did not manage to get on the main stage.
In short, if your way of judging the success of protest is immediate results, well sure, then it will always look like a failure. But progress generally happens gradually, so I'd say that's a better tempo for judging cultural shifts/change as the result of protest movements.
posted by coffeecat at 11:23 AM on August 23 [11 favorites]
I guess you have to define what you mean by "worked" or "effect." The Women's March and #MeToo radicalized a lot of women, including some that sometimes vote GOP. We have seen since Roe fell some backlash against GOP candidates that are too far right on abortion.
Iraq war protests - again, it's hard to measure in any concrete way, but I think it's fair to say that there is a growing skepticism in the "goodness" of US military intervention, which had somewhat died down post-Vietnam by the 90s. The fact that both a number of people on the left/right of the political spectrum were not keen for the US to get too involved in Ukraine is perhaps a good indication of this.
Occupy - I'm not sure Bernie would have done as well as he did (and thus had the impact on the DNC agenda drafting process) in the 2020 primary had it not been for seeds planted in that movement. There is a lot in the Inflation Reduction Act that comes out of that agenda.
And yes, as others have pointed out, the Uncommitted movement has been considerably successful in getting Palestine into the conversation at the DNC, even if they did not manage to get on the main stage.
In short, if your way of judging the success of protest is immediate results, well sure, then it will always look like a failure. But progress generally happens gradually, so I'd say that's a better tempo for judging cultural shifts/change as the result of protest movements.
posted by coffeecat at 11:23 AM on August 23 [11 favorites]
The ones that murdered Matthew Shepard, the ones that marched on Charlottesville, the ones who attacked the capital January 6th and the ines interested in rolling back basic human rights. The kind that have haunted the US as long as it has existed.
Okay. I'm not understanding how attendees at a DNC convention fit into that category, however, and I believe that was what droomoord was talking about when he spoke of "bullying your way to social justice". (Do correct me if I'm wrong, droomoord, of course.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:29 AM on August 23 [4 favorites]
Okay. I'm not understanding how attendees at a DNC convention fit into that category, however, and I believe that was what droomoord was talking about when he spoke of "bullying your way to social justice". (Do correct me if I'm wrong, droomoord, of course.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:29 AM on August 23 [4 favorites]
Sadly. I personally think this may feel good (for the bully) and might show short-term gains, but ultimately, let's say Antifa wins the day. Then who's in charge? Bullies.
i am sorry but even if we are very charitable and, like, ignore everything before 1946 (!), this shows a really poor understanding of the history and nature of fascism and organised resistance to same.
posted by busted_crayons at 11:31 AM on August 23 [18 favorites]
We will have to continue to disagree on that, then, busted_crayons.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 11:33 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 11:33 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]
genuinely hoping you didn't have the EDL in your neighbourhood literally the other week. i'll tell the people who put themselves physically between the fascists and the asylum seeker housing that they're just bullies.
posted by busted_crayons at 11:38 AM on August 23 [7 favorites]
posted by busted_crayons at 11:38 AM on August 23 [7 favorites]
Just in passing -- all the Antifa I know, if they "won the day," would straight away hang up their black masks, put the trash can lids back on the trash cans, stash their homebrew PR-24s in the back of a closet, and get back to the business of living their best lives un-fucked with by fascists.
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:40 AM on August 23 [23 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:40 AM on August 23 [23 favorites]
The people of Omelas thinking they are moral and that they are making a tactical decision is kind of the point of the story of Omelas
The other fascinating thing about Omelas analysis is the meta-Omelas analysis. It’s a five page story that most nerd-adjacent people have heard of enough to know that the people inside Omelas are the baddies and the ones who walk away from Omelas are the good guys. Some people have read the story enough to make more detailed comparisons - in this case, the comparison is *entirely* apt, because it is not only the perceived tactical choice but the perceived nuance and depth of the knowledge of the importance of the tactical choice and the suffering of the child that the Omelans believe gives them everything good. And the Omelans don’t *engage* with the child, or *assist* the child - their sympathy consists in looking and knowing the horror - just as in this case, many people believe being aware of or referencing the death and suffering of Palestinian children is sufficient, even if nothing is done to actually *aid* them.
But people are willing to argue about the comparison in ignorance because they have a vague sense that it’s a bad comparison, without wanting to read the story to know if it’s apt or not. In some ways being even less willing to engage than the Omelans who would at least look once.
posted by corb at 11:40 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
The other fascinating thing about Omelas analysis is the meta-Omelas analysis. It’s a five page story that most nerd-adjacent people have heard of enough to know that the people inside Omelas are the baddies and the ones who walk away from Omelas are the good guys. Some people have read the story enough to make more detailed comparisons - in this case, the comparison is *entirely* apt, because it is not only the perceived tactical choice but the perceived nuance and depth of the knowledge of the importance of the tactical choice and the suffering of the child that the Omelans believe gives them everything good. And the Omelans don’t *engage* with the child, or *assist* the child - their sympathy consists in looking and knowing the horror - just as in this case, many people believe being aware of or referencing the death and suffering of Palestinian children is sufficient, even if nothing is done to actually *aid* them.
But people are willing to argue about the comparison in ignorance because they have a vague sense that it’s a bad comparison, without wanting to read the story to know if it’s apt or not. In some ways being even less willing to engage than the Omelans who would at least look once.
posted by corb at 11:40 AM on August 23 [6 favorites]
i'll tell the people who put themselves physically between the fascists and the asylum seeker housing that they're just bullies.
But that would be a lie, because I never said that. I was responding to someone else's claim that bullying is an acceptable tactic. I never defined "put[ting] themselves physically between the fascists and the asylum seeker housing " as a kind of bullying. Perhaps I should not have used Antifa as a shorthand for the hypothetical "antifascist" in that post, which may be causing the confusion.
Either we mean, by "bullying" the classic definition, or we mean something else. If we mean the classic definition (Trump is a bully, for instance, and shielding someone vulnerable has never counted as "bullying" in my experience) then it's wrong, and having a good cause doesn't make using it ok. If we mean "any physical direct action taken" then, well, I am just confused.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 11:47 AM on August 23 [10 favorites]
But that would be a lie, because I never said that. I was responding to someone else's claim that bullying is an acceptable tactic. I never defined "put[ting] themselves physically between the fascists and the asylum seeker housing " as a kind of bullying. Perhaps I should not have used Antifa as a shorthand for the hypothetical "antifascist" in that post, which may be causing the confusion.
Either we mean, by "bullying" the classic definition, or we mean something else. If we mean the classic definition (Trump is a bully, for instance, and shielding someone vulnerable has never counted as "bullying" in my experience) then it's wrong, and having a good cause doesn't make using it ok. If we mean "any physical direct action taken" then, well, I am just confused.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 11:47 AM on August 23 [10 favorites]
Regarding the effect of protest on policy, Astra Taylor and others associated with the Debt Collective make a (to me) compelling argument that without Occupy, we wouldn't have seen Biden admin support for student debt cancellation.
This isn't to say that protest is always well-aligned with policy change or that policy effects will be immediate. Angela Davis notes this in her collection Freedom Is A Constant Struggle how a lack of organizing infrastructure meant the energy of Occupy wasn't applied to its greatest possible extent.
In the most recent print issue of In These Times, there's a great interview with Chicago activists about how they've worked over the long term from protests and other actions to now winning some measure of support among city government.
posted by audi alteram partem at 11:59 AM on August 23 [8 favorites]
This isn't to say that protest is always well-aligned with policy change or that policy effects will be immediate. Angela Davis notes this in her collection Freedom Is A Constant Struggle how a lack of organizing infrastructure meant the energy of Occupy wasn't applied to its greatest possible extent.
In the most recent print issue of In These Times, there's a great interview with Chicago activists about how they've worked over the long term from protests and other actions to now winning some measure of support among city government.
posted by audi alteram partem at 11:59 AM on August 23 [8 favorites]
But that would be a lie, because I never said that. I was responding to someone else's claim that bullying is an acceptable tactic.
i thought we obviously meant by "bullying" something different from, but related to, the classic definition, given the context. i read the claim to which you were responding as something like an abbreviation of: "the special nature of fascism is such that it cannot be countered effectively except by denying fascists social and physical space, which, if it has already metastasised to a certain point, means employing methods of social and maybe physical dominance which can be indistinguishable from bullying on their own merits. (the difference is that dominance is a just means for the antifascist but an end for the bully; the tactics might be identical.)".
i actually agree with some version of your response: it's usually tragic when political circumstances result in unavoidable violence, even when that's necessary, because violence tends to empower people who are good at it, and we generally don't want to do that. i would say that poses some very hard problems.
posted by busted_crayons at 12:05 PM on August 23 [11 favorites]
i thought we obviously meant by "bullying" something different from, but related to, the classic definition, given the context. i read the claim to which you were responding as something like an abbreviation of: "the special nature of fascism is such that it cannot be countered effectively except by denying fascists social and physical space, which, if it has already metastasised to a certain point, means employing methods of social and maybe physical dominance which can be indistinguishable from bullying on their own merits. (the difference is that dominance is a just means for the antifascist but an end for the bully; the tactics might be identical.)".
i actually agree with some version of your response: it's usually tragic when political circumstances result in unavoidable violence, even when that's necessary, because violence tends to empower people who are good at it, and we generally don't want to do that. i would say that poses some very hard problems.
posted by busted_crayons at 12:05 PM on August 23 [11 favorites]
I would just like to note, here, that bullying is a power relation. Some instances of interpersonal aggression are "bullying", but many are not, and on a text-only internet forum, public one-on-one interactions, even hostile ones, are unlikely to usefully meet the criteria.
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:12 PM on August 23 [4 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:12 PM on August 23 [4 favorites]
The word "bullying" in this conversation can mean anything from "actively harassing everyday people" to "saying impolitic things in public fora that other people don't like." While the former is not a good thing, the later is absolutely essential to any sort of social change. Grouping them under the same umbrella of "bullying" is meaningless.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:13 PM on August 23 [17 favorites]
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:13 PM on August 23 [17 favorites]
Well, RFK Jr. just dropped out (he says he's "suspending" his campaign, not "ending" it, but whatever) and endorsing Trump.
What a weirdo, and also, I think the desperation on this move will not help Trump at all.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:20 PM on August 23 [4 favorites]
What a weirdo, and also, I think the desperation on this move will not help Trump at all.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:20 PM on August 23 [4 favorites]
busted_crayons, thank you for taking the time to clarify. I appreciate it, and I think we agree.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 12:23 PM on August 23 [5 favorites]
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 12:23 PM on August 23 [5 favorites]
AP: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said Friday he’s suspending his independent presidential bid and will seek to remove his name from the ballot in battleground states because he believes his presence in the race would help Democratic nominee Kamala Harris.
He said his supporters can continue to back him in the majority of states where they are unlikely to sway the outcome. Kennedy took steps to withdraw his candidacy in at least two states late this week, Arizona and Pennsylvania.
Kennedy said the move followed conversations with Donald Trump over the past few weeks.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:23 PM on August 23 [5 favorites]
He said his supporters can continue to back him in the majority of states where they are unlikely to sway the outcome. Kennedy took steps to withdraw his candidacy in at least two states late this week, Arizona and Pennsylvania.
Kennedy said the move followed conversations with Donald Trump over the past few weeks.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:23 PM on August 23 [5 favorites]
What a weirdo, and also, I think the desperation on this move will not help Trump at all.
And if it does, well, the party and the base apparently have their patsies all lined up.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 12:28 PM on August 23 [4 favorites]
And if it does, well, the party and the base apparently have their patsies all lined up.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 12:28 PM on August 23 [4 favorites]
The Harris campaign gave RFK Jr all the attention that he deserved (i.e. none), and that plays even better to the "rational centrists support Harris" messaging. I predict that RFK's messaging will trip up Trump as they're both highly, uh, irregular people that have some batshitinsane takes. Trump's rambling about RFK's ramblings will be exactly how it sounds. God help him if he pulls RFK Jr. on stage.
Also, wait until it becomes public what Trump promised RFK.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:37 PM on August 23 [4 favorites]
Also, wait until it becomes public what Trump promised RFK.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 12:37 PM on August 23 [4 favorites]
if trump ditches vance for rfk jr as a unity ticket...
couchfucker for a bear corpse molester
posted by i used to be someone else at 12:40 PM on August 23 [3 favorites]
couchfucker for a bear corpse molester
posted by i used to be someone else at 12:40 PM on August 23 [3 favorites]
Cori Bush Is Leading the Charge Against the Comstock Act. The Man Who Beat Her in a Primary Doesn’t Seem to Know What It Is.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 12:47 PM on August 23 [20 favorites]
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 12:47 PM on August 23 [20 favorites]
I have this image of RFK Jr's campaign becoming a giant quivering mass of Jello, but I guess that's not the kind of suspension he's thinking of.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 12:53 PM on August 23 [2 favorites]
posted by Winnie the Proust at 12:53 PM on August 23 [2 favorites]
For the past several elections (including 2016), the candidate whose acceptance speech got the highest ratings won the presidency. The AP argues ratings don't mean anything, but they're averaging the ratings for the entire event. When you narrow it down to the acceptance speech, it's clear that there is meaning.
To use just the most recent elections as examples: In 2016, Trump got 2.4 million more viewers (8%) than Clinton. In 2020,Joe Biden had a little under 800,000 more viewers than Trump.
According to early reports, Harris outperformed Trump by 22% in the fast nationals, with a 15 rating vs. a 12.3 for Trump. (Haven't yet learned how many millions that translates to; ratings generally refer to a percentage of the general public.) There will be a revision upwards of these numbers overnight as they bring in more data, and we will see if Harris's margin holds.
posted by rednikki at 1:53 PM on August 23 [20 favorites]
To use just the most recent elections as examples: In 2016, Trump got 2.4 million more viewers (8%) than Clinton. In 2020,
According to early reports, Harris outperformed Trump by 22% in the fast nationals, with a 15 rating vs. a 12.3 for Trump. (Haven't yet learned how many millions that translates to; ratings generally refer to a percentage of the general public.) There will be a revision upwards of these numbers overnight as they bring in more data, and we will see if Harris's margin holds.
posted by rednikki at 1:53 PM on August 23 [20 favorites]
RFK Jr. calls his decision to support Trump ‘agonizing’ (AP) During Friday’s announcement, he noted that joining the Trump campaign would be a “difficult sacrifice for my wife and children.” He's gone from Democrat to Independent to... whatever this is.
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:40 PM on August 23 [5 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:40 PM on August 23 [5 favorites]
I'd call RFK Jr.'s entire campaign agonizing.
It might be the first thing we agreed on.
posted by box at 2:57 PM on August 23 [7 favorites]
It might be the first thing we agreed on.
posted by box at 2:57 PM on August 23 [7 favorites]
According to early reports, Harris outperformed Trump by 22% in the fast nationals, with a 15 rating vs. a 12.3 for Trump. (Haven't yet learned how many millions that translates to; ratings generally refer to a percentage of the general public.) There will be a revision upwards of these numbers overnight as they bring in more data, and we will see if Harris's margin holds.
FWIW, the AP has updated its "ratings don't mean anything" article to say Harris's speech outperformed Trump's by the same margin as Biden won by in 2020:
FWIW, the AP has updated its "ratings don't mean anything" article to say Harris's speech outperformed Trump's by the same margin as Biden won by in 2020:
Trump reached 25.4 million people with his July speech, less than a week after an assassination attempt, and the average would have undoubtedly been higher if his 92-minute address hadn’t stretched past midnight on the East Coast. Harris’ shorter speech reached 26.2 million.posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 3:19 PM on August 23 [1 favorite]
Fact check: 28.9 Million.
An estimated 26.2 million viewers watched the fourth and final night of the 2024 Democratic National Convention on Thursday, August 22, according to Nielsen. The event aired from approximately 9:00 p.m. to 11:30 p.m. ET across 15 television networks reported by Nielsen, with varied coverage televised on each.posted by The Bellman at 3:22 PM on August 23 [6 favorites]
The four-day convention closed with a speech by Kamala Harris as she formally accepted the Democratic presidential nomination. The speech aired from approximately 10:31 p.m. to 11:11 p.m. ET, and averaged 28.9 million viewers during that time.
Harris’s convention speech sparks live rant from outraged Trump (Guardian)
A nice summary of his 48 posts during her 37 minute speech. And a roundup of some Fox news and other begrudging reactions from the other side.
In a video posted on X, the conservative commentator and former Fox News and Newsmax host Eric Bolling, said the Harris campaign was dominating the media landscape and blamed Trump for ceding the initiative while failing to come up with new ideas.
“We’re losing, losing the race,” he said in a tone of clear frustration. “The enthusiasm level on the left right now is overwhelming … They’re trying to redefine the Democrat party. They’re trying to say that the Democrats are the patriots, the party that’s worried about the country.
“They’re wearing camo hats with Kamala Harris’s name on it. Camouflage – that’s ours! She was flanked in her speech last night with two American flags. There were no Pride flags there. They’re redefining it, they’re going after our independent voters. What’s going on with Fox News, by the way? … It’s Democrat, Democrat, Democrat … The media are kicking our ass, on the right.”posted by Glinn at 3:25 PM on August 23 [14 favorites]
A nice summary of his 48 posts during her 37 minute speech. And a roundup of some Fox news and other begrudging reactions from the other side.
In a video posted on X, the conservative commentator and former Fox News and Newsmax host Eric Bolling, said the Harris campaign was dominating the media landscape and blamed Trump for ceding the initiative while failing to come up with new ideas.
“We’re losing, losing the race,” he said in a tone of clear frustration. “The enthusiasm level on the left right now is overwhelming … They’re trying to redefine the Democrat party. They’re trying to say that the Democrats are the patriots, the party that’s worried about the country.
“They’re wearing camo hats with Kamala Harris’s name on it. Camouflage – that’s ours! She was flanked in her speech last night with two American flags. There were no Pride flags there. They’re redefining it, they’re going after our independent voters. What’s going on with Fox News, by the way? … It’s Democrat, Democrat, Democrat … The media are kicking our ass, on the right.”posted by Glinn at 3:25 PM on August 23 [14 favorites]
48 tweets. That's some real crazy-ex-just-before-you-block-them energy.
posted by surlyben at 3:28 PM on August 23 [14 favorites]
posted by surlyben at 3:28 PM on August 23 [14 favorites]
Okay but Nielsen's parallel story about the Trump speech has him peaking at 28.4 million, so either way it's still advantage Harris but by much less than 22%.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 3:28 PM on August 23
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 3:28 PM on August 23
No Palestinian speakers, but republicans? I see what you guys are trying to do, and it doesn't work,
I'm totally with you here but I'm realizing there may another intent behind the parade of republicans. It's not necessarily to appeal to the center and peel off Trump voters but just to reinforce the vibe that the GOP is going down and the done thing now is to vote Harris/Trump.
Basically an attempt to convince the GOP rank and file to stay home and not be associated with all that.
Doesn't pardon the lack of a Palestinian speaker. I'm just not convinced that the primary goal of these putting up these republican speakers is to try to capture the center.
posted by VTX at 3:29 PM on August 23 [11 favorites]
I'm totally with you here but I'm realizing there may another intent behind the parade of republicans. It's not necessarily to appeal to the center and peel off Trump voters but just to reinforce the vibe that the GOP is going down and the done thing now is to vote Harris/Trump.
Basically an attempt to convince the GOP rank and file to stay home and not be associated with all that.
Doesn't pardon the lack of a Palestinian speaker. I'm just not convinced that the primary goal of these putting up these republican speakers is to try to capture the center.
posted by VTX at 3:29 PM on August 23 [11 favorites]
“We’re losing, losing the race,” he said in a tone of clear frustration.
You love to see it.
posted by phunniemee at 3:29 PM on August 23 [18 favorites]
You love to see it.
posted by phunniemee at 3:29 PM on August 23 [18 favorites]
Regarding Trump’s speech: “…the [RNC] audience peaking at 28.4 million viewers during former President Trump’s speech in the 10:45-11 pm window.” So, about 500,000 difference. That is much tighter than the fast nationals.
posted by rednikki at 3:30 PM on August 23
posted by rednikki at 3:30 PM on August 23
That is much tighter than the fast nationals.
I noticed that, but I'm confused, because the "fast nationals" quote above says:
According to early reports, Harris outperformed Trump by 22% in the fast nationals, with a 15 rating vs. a 12.3 for Trump.
That's actually right for Harris (her household share was 15.3), but wrong for Trump (who had a 14.3 household share, according to Nielsen). The Trump number locked back in July, so I don't quite know why the "fast nationals" (whatever they are) would get that wrong. Maybe just sloppy reporting?
Oh well -- 28.9 million people heard that phenomenal speech on network TV, and many millions more on social media, so who cares how much we beat him by? (Well, he cares, I know. But we beat him!)
posted by The Bellman at 3:42 PM on August 23 [3 favorites]
I noticed that, but I'm confused, because the "fast nationals" quote above says:
According to early reports, Harris outperformed Trump by 22% in the fast nationals, with a 15 rating vs. a 12.3 for Trump.
That's actually right for Harris (her household share was 15.3), but wrong for Trump (who had a 14.3 household share, according to Nielsen). The Trump number locked back in July, so I don't quite know why the "fast nationals" (whatever they are) would get that wrong. Maybe just sloppy reporting?
Oh well -- 28.9 million people heard that phenomenal speech on network TV, and many millions more on social media, so who cares how much we beat him by? (Well, he cares, I know. But we beat him!)
posted by The Bellman at 3:42 PM on August 23 [3 favorites]
Some articles note ominously that no young people were watching on TV. Well, we weren’t either. We streamed individual speeches on YouTube.
posted by rednikki at 3:53 PM on August 23 [24 favorites]
posted by rednikki at 3:53 PM on August 23 [24 favorites]
Some will wait for the cuneiform version to arrive by Pony Express.
posted by riverlife at 4:01 PM on August 23 [4 favorites]
posted by riverlife at 4:01 PM on August 23 [4 favorites]
I was hearing all the repeated calls to get Republicans out of America's bedrooms and personal lives as a definite reproach to attacks on trans people, because they are obviously one of the Republicans big targets.
As someone who lives in a red state who struggles to find ways to get people to reconsider their transphobia (although nothing beats just meeting and getting to know a trans person), I thought the "mind your own business" message was really powerful and might help respond to people who complain about acceptance of trans people for no other reason than some Fox news person was complaining about it.
posted by straight at 4:02 PM on August 23 [16 favorites]
As someone who lives in a red state who struggles to find ways to get people to reconsider their transphobia (although nothing beats just meeting and getting to know a trans person), I thought the "mind your own business" message was really powerful and might help respond to people who complain about acceptance of trans people for no other reason than some Fox news person was complaining about it.
posted by straight at 4:02 PM on August 23 [16 favorites]
^the social-media numbers, for clips posted to youtube, x, tik-tok... and the excerpts and highlight reels assembled by other media outlets. No one I know sat through hours of tv programming.
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:02 PM on August 23 [2 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 4:02 PM on August 23 [2 favorites]
For me that "seizing the normal" the Democrats have somehow managed to do in less than a month is one of the best things to come out of the convention.
"Why you gotta be so weird about trans people? They're just people."
"Looking out for your neighbors and being decent to people is just what normal people do."
posted by straight at 4:39 PM on August 23 [19 favorites]
"Why you gotta be so weird about trans people? They're just people."
"Looking out for your neighbors and being decent to people is just what normal people do."
posted by straight at 4:39 PM on August 23 [19 favorites]
I was hearing all the repeated calls to get Republicans out of America's bedrooms and personal lives as a definite reproach to attacks on trans people, because
I like the choice of words. Up here in Canada, a key turning point in our social history was when then Justice Minister Pierre Trudeau (Justin's dad) said (specifically with regard to concerns about homosexuality), "The view we take is, there's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation. What's done in private between adults doesn't concern the Criminal Code."
The bill in question also included progressive revisions to abortion laws.
posted by philip-random at 4:48 PM on August 23 [8 favorites]
I like the choice of words. Up here in Canada, a key turning point in our social history was when then Justice Minister Pierre Trudeau (Justin's dad) said (specifically with regard to concerns about homosexuality), "The view we take is, there's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation. What's done in private between adults doesn't concern the Criminal Code."
The bill in question also included progressive revisions to abortion laws.
posted by philip-random at 4:48 PM on August 23 [8 favorites]
Although I feel like many of the Democrats phrased the privacy thing as not just a bedroom thing because it's not just about sex.
posted by straight at 4:51 PM on August 23 [2 favorites]
posted by straight at 4:51 PM on August 23 [2 favorites]
Regarding "bullying fascists", I think it's like that meme that I've been seeing going around for a while, something like "Striking is the tactic we agreed upon to inconvenience bosses as an alternative to the earlier tactic of going to the boss' house and stringing him up".
Bullying fascists and forcing them out of spaces is the tactic we've agreed to use right now, as an alternative to the one we successfully employed in 1939-1945, which tends to make the floors a bit messy if you can't just hose them down.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 4:58 PM on August 23 [5 favorites]
Bullying fascists and forcing them out of spaces is the tactic we've agreed to use right now, as an alternative to the one we successfully employed in 1939-1945, which tends to make the floors a bit messy if you can't just hose them down.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 4:58 PM on August 23 [5 favorites]
for me, it lands as a fundamentally poor choice of words. Nobody likes a bully.
posted by philip-random at 5:06 PM on August 23 [8 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 5:06 PM on August 23 [8 favorites]
No Palestinian speakers, but republicans? I see what you guys are trying to do, and it doesn't work, ever. But keep on letting those dirty hippie votes run off into the weeds so you can chase The Last True Conservative (if we just move far enough to the right, he'll come around!).
There's a persistent misunderstanding of this kind of thing that is much in evidence in this thread.
It seems to be based on an underlying misunderstanding of who the Democratic electorate is, exactly.
The people who run the Democratic Party aren't stupid. They understand who their base of likely voters is, and who might vote for them, given the proper motivation.
They don't put Republicans on stage because they think it's probably that they'll get a lot of Republican votes. Those speeches aren't aimed at Republicans -- they're aimed at moderates who might, and often do, vote Democratic.
By some measures, moderates are the single largest bloc of voters in the Democratic electorate. They are crucial to getting Harris (or any other Democratic presidential candidate) elected.
If the DNC put on a parade of people giving fiery leftist speeches, it would turn off far more people than it would turn on.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:19 PM on August 23 [35 favorites]
There's a persistent misunderstanding of this kind of thing that is much in evidence in this thread.
It seems to be based on an underlying misunderstanding of who the Democratic electorate is, exactly.
The people who run the Democratic Party aren't stupid. They understand who their base of likely voters is, and who might vote for them, given the proper motivation.
They don't put Republicans on stage because they think it's probably that they'll get a lot of Republican votes. Those speeches aren't aimed at Republicans -- they're aimed at moderates who might, and often do, vote Democratic.
By some measures, moderates are the single largest bloc of voters in the Democratic electorate. They are crucial to getting Harris (or any other Democratic presidential candidate) elected.
If the DNC put on a parade of people giving fiery leftist speeches, it would turn off far more people than it would turn on.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 5:19 PM on August 23 [35 favorites]
Rhaomi: "CNN panel of eight undecided Pennsylvania voters:
- Mostly gave Harris's speech A's and B's (one C), praising her confidence and competence while wanting to hear more policy details
- 6 of 8 decided to back Harris, with the lone C backing Trump and one leaning toward not voting"
UPDATE: The lone voter who ended up siding with Trump turned out to be a hardcore Trump supporter all along, despite representing themselves to CNN as undecided.
posted by Rhaomi at 5:27 PM on August 23 [23 favorites]
- Mostly gave Harris's speech A's and B's (one C), praising her confidence and competence while wanting to hear more policy details
- 6 of 8 decided to back Harris, with the lone C backing Trump and one leaning toward not voting"
UPDATE: The lone voter who ended up siding with Trump turned out to be a hardcore Trump supporter all along, despite representing themselves to CNN as undecided.
posted by Rhaomi at 5:27 PM on August 23 [23 favorites]
I have not seen any prominent Democrats or Dem strategists have advocated bullying fascists or bullying Trumpists. I haven't seen anyone advocate that outside of a few people on Metafilter. Maybe I've missed the links?
Mocking them? Yes.
Ridiculing them? Yes.
There's a long-standing tradition of mocking and belittling evil as a way of breaking its power.
But that's not the same as bullying.
Bullies use ridicule and mockery, but that doesn't mean that all mockery and ridicule are bullying.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 5:34 PM on August 23 [13 favorites]
Mocking them? Yes.
Ridiculing them? Yes.
There's a long-standing tradition of mocking and belittling evil as a way of breaking its power.
But that's not the same as bullying.
Bullies use ridicule and mockery, but that doesn't mean that all mockery and ridicule are bullying.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 5:34 PM on August 23 [13 favorites]
Fwiw, I used the term "bully" to reference behaviour on the dehumanization spectrum (which yes, has a power implication) whether that be flattening or mischaracterizing someone else's perspective to advance your own with more oomph, or naming their being rather than their behaviour with derogatory rhetoric.
I do think it can happen on internet forums and doesn't even require a single target.
Like a bull: not mindful of context, nuance, or the preciousness of the immediate environment.
Words are bespoke to each of our maps tho.
posted by droomoord at 6:10 PM on August 23 [3 favorites]
I do think it can happen on internet forums and doesn't even require a single target.
Like a bull: not mindful of context, nuance, or the preciousness of the immediate environment.
Words are bespoke to each of our maps tho.
posted by droomoord at 6:10 PM on August 23 [3 favorites]
In fact I think it's key to the strategy that Democrats acknowledge that the Republicans are dangerous, but don't dwell on it, to instead mock them. I can understand why people might think that this is something that can be turned on them, but I'd point to Gus Walz, who is autistic, having a little happy cry while his dad was speaking, and how the Democrat reaction was "how charming, he loves his dad" and how the Republican reaction was various flavours of contempt that they had to delete in shame. (Ann Coulter, of all people, managed to feel shame.)
This is the strategy: what's "weird" about them is their contemptuousness and meanness and pettiness. Republicans have been hiding behind a shield of getting nasty as "just playing the political game". The "weird" attack is an attack on that shield, getting them to come out and be genuine, which is kryptonite to them because they're genuinely awful. If you're concerned about "weird" being weaponised to attack you because you're neurodivergent or whatever, you're not weird for stimming, they're weird for trying to be mean about it.
posted by Merus at 6:21 PM on August 23 [20 favorites]
This is the strategy: what's "weird" about them is their contemptuousness and meanness and pettiness. Republicans have been hiding behind a shield of getting nasty as "just playing the political game". The "weird" attack is an attack on that shield, getting them to come out and be genuine, which is kryptonite to them because they're genuinely awful. If you're concerned about "weird" being weaponised to attack you because you're neurodivergent or whatever, you're not weird for stimming, they're weird for trying to be mean about it.
posted by Merus at 6:21 PM on August 23 [20 favorites]
One thing I found interesting was that very few people mentioned “Republicans”?when talking about the other ticket. They said variations on “the other guys” or “the opposition.” It felt like perhaps they were doing it to give Republicans that don’t like Trump the vibe that “you don’t have to vote for them, they aren’t real Republicans.”
posted by rednikki at 6:33 PM on August 23 [5 favorites]
posted by rednikki at 6:33 PM on August 23 [5 favorites]
This is really well done, very polished and uplifting, and I had not seen it. I haven’t really seen her hit a bad note - with the exception of leaving out the Palestinian rep - but it was DNC’s event, not her own, and I am still hopeful she will surprise us and do something substantial on behalf of Palestinians, hopefully soon.
DNC nailed it with this hype video.
posted by Glinn at 6:34 PM on August 23 [3 favorites]
DNC nailed it with this hype video.
posted by Glinn at 6:34 PM on August 23 [3 favorites]
Does RFK2 remind anyone else of Brack from *This Island Earth*?
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:41 PM on August 23 [3 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:41 PM on August 23 [3 favorites]
The people who run the Democratic Party aren't stupid.
They certainly aren't especially clever. The notion that people in power are usually competent is an appealing fiction. The Democrats managed to lose to Donald Trump in 2016. They nearly lost in 2020. They remained determined to run Biden despite his dismal performance in 2020 and horrifying debate appearance long after many other people had called for Biden to step aside.
Now they are undermining the fragile coalition and unprecedented fresh start they were gifted with by refusing to show even the most trivial token of respect for Palestinian American voters and opponents of genocide. The speech that Ruwa Romman was going to give was vetted by the DNC and was hardly a "fiery leftist speech".
I don't see any reason to doubt the DNC's ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory this year.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:45 PM on August 23 [15 favorites]
They certainly aren't especially clever. The notion that people in power are usually competent is an appealing fiction. The Democrats managed to lose to Donald Trump in 2016. They nearly lost in 2020. They remained determined to run Biden despite his dismal performance in 2020 and horrifying debate appearance long after many other people had called for Biden to step aside.
Now they are undermining the fragile coalition and unprecedented fresh start they were gifted with by refusing to show even the most trivial token of respect for Palestinian American voters and opponents of genocide. The speech that Ruwa Romman was going to give was vetted by the DNC and was hardly a "fiery leftist speech".
I don't see any reason to doubt the DNC's ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory this year.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:45 PM on August 23 [15 favorites]
Coming in a little late to this one, but in the last set of viewership numbers quoted back and forth above, showing the least dramatic difference between the two, note that you're comparing Trump's peak viewership (i.e., the number of people watching during the 15-minute window when the most people were watching at once) to Harris' average viewership. Not sure why Nielsen chose to report the two differently.
posted by nobody at 7:17 PM on August 23 [9 favorites]
posted by nobody at 7:17 PM on August 23 [9 favorites]
The Democratic party isn't a monolith that makes monolithic decisions. It is composed of individuals -- some with more power, some with less -- all talking to each other, trying to figure things out. The DNC is just a bunch of people hired by a bunch of other people. Some are smarter, some less so.
"Democrats" didn't remain determined to run Biden. It was Biden -- supported by his family and his core advisors -- who refused to step aside despite an increasing number of individual Democrats -- officeholders, donors, campaign strategists -- calling on him to step aside. Meanwhile, other individual Democrats -- including Mefi darlings AOC, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren -- were among the most prominent voices calling on Biden to stay the course. For once I'm glad the progressives didn't win the argument!
This all played out in public. It was fascinating. But behind that there were thousands of individual conversations and decisions and somehow, for once, the right thing happened. We didn't stick with the dead man walking, but took the collective decision and made the right thing happen.
It's odd to talk about clutching defeat from the jaws of victory when a campaign has turned a five point deficit into a five point lead in just a few weeks. They appear to be good at this campaign strategy thing. Are they doing the morally right thing on I/P? A lot of people think they aren't. I'm willing to reserve judgement, because the campaign trail isn't where policy gets made. It gets made in the White House and Congress, and you have to get there before you can do that.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:49 PM on August 23 [36 favorites]
"Democrats" didn't remain determined to run Biden. It was Biden -- supported by his family and his core advisors -- who refused to step aside despite an increasing number of individual Democrats -- officeholders, donors, campaign strategists -- calling on him to step aside. Meanwhile, other individual Democrats -- including Mefi darlings AOC, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren -- were among the most prominent voices calling on Biden to stay the course. For once I'm glad the progressives didn't win the argument!
This all played out in public. It was fascinating. But behind that there were thousands of individual conversations and decisions and somehow, for once, the right thing happened. We didn't stick with the dead man walking, but took the collective decision and made the right thing happen.
It's odd to talk about clutching defeat from the jaws of victory when a campaign has turned a five point deficit into a five point lead in just a few weeks. They appear to be good at this campaign strategy thing. Are they doing the morally right thing on I/P? A lot of people think they aren't. I'm willing to reserve judgement, because the campaign trail isn't where policy gets made. It gets made in the White House and Congress, and you have to get there before you can do that.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:49 PM on August 23 [36 favorites]
It gets made in the White House and Congress, and you have to get there before you can do that.
My one disagreement with your otherwise well-argued post is that the Vice President is quite literally already in the White House and Congress. She definitely doesn't have the influence she'd have as President, but she's as close as one can get without actually having it, being the VP, the party nominee, and regularly casting the tie-breaking vote in the Senate.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 8:31 PM on August 23 [3 favorites]
My one disagreement with your otherwise well-argued post is that the Vice President is quite literally already in the White House and Congress. She definitely doesn't have the influence she'd have as President, but she's as close as one can get without actually having it, being the VP, the party nominee, and regularly casting the tie-breaking vote in the Senate.
posted by A Most Curious Rabbit at 8:31 PM on August 23 [3 favorites]
We didn't stick with the dead man walking, but took the collective decision and made the right thing happen.
That seems like an odd framing. The electorate didn't kick Biden out. Biden stepped aside, and no one could have forced him to do so. He won the primaries, though at that point no one was opposing him. If some Democrat had opposed him in February, it would have been a much wilder ride. Presumably chaotic in a way that Warren, AOC, et al. found concerning.
We also don't know the process that when on behind the scenes. Maybe Biden only agreed to step aside if everyone got behind Harris vs an "open convention." The delegates might have had some say in the process, but "we" certainly didn't. (Not that I'm unhappy about the result.)
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:44 PM on August 23 [6 favorites]
That seems like an odd framing. The electorate didn't kick Biden out. Biden stepped aside, and no one could have forced him to do so. He won the primaries, though at that point no one was opposing him. If some Democrat had opposed him in February, it would have been a much wilder ride. Presumably chaotic in a way that Warren, AOC, et al. found concerning.
We also don't know the process that when on behind the scenes. Maybe Biden only agreed to step aside if everyone got behind Harris vs an "open convention." The delegates might have had some say in the process, but "we" certainly didn't. (Not that I'm unhappy about the result.)
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:44 PM on August 23 [6 favorites]
For me that "seizing the normal" the Democrats have somehow managed to do in less than a month is one of the best things to come out of the convention.so this is the thing that i kinda want to highlight and that i was trying to get at earlier: by and large, the official messaging isn't saying "trans people", but rather the "LGBTQ community" or other phrases like "[people who] may not love like you do" (walz) or "[people who want] the freedom to love who you love openly" (harris). which, i'd like to point out, doesn't necessarily speak to trans people, unless one wants to think of transsexuality as a sexual orientation, which is... wrong (and yet still a common misunderstanding), let alone cover the entire community.
"Why you gotta be so weird about trans people? They're just people."
only two speakers dared utter that unspeakable word, "trans": cory booker and kelley robinson, neither of whom got real choice spots; booker made a passing reference to trump denigrating trans people but nothing about the legal full court press; the latter says it twice, but she gets less than 3 minutes.
when your community is euphemized, when your presence is minimized, it doesn't feel great. you'd think i'd be used to it growing up where i was neither white nor black, but "other"; where my ethnicity wasn't distinguished in american eyes until maybe the first hallyu of the 2000s, and yet, one never quite gets inured to it.
i get it. to the "mainstream", even if we're just people to them, they still tend to see us trannies as fucking weird, and in today's media environment we're apparently the theys-who-must-not-be-named lest the nytimes, the right, and the mainstream get weird feelings about the party or gender. and once again, we're being asked to read ourselves in to the words spoken, just like how we've had to for every fictional character and medium, every single community imagined or real, knowing that even then we're still barely on the outer rim. it makes it feel less like full-throated support and more... convenient. it makes it feel like they have our backs only until something easier comes along, which comes along all to often.
and i get it. there's plenty to be happy for in the platform (and plenty to be concerned about). increasing the first-time house buying benefit would be a great boon to me. so would expanding all-other-healthcare-except-for-trans-specific-healthcare. so would not being shot randomly because there are more guns than trans people, and so on. but it feels weird, it feels awkward, to believe them when they cheer pride when they're not proud enough to call us by who we are.
but i get it. it makes sense. there are less than two million of us, scattered throughout amongst three hundred thirty million. there are more redheads than there are us. even if every last trans person voted the same way, we're still currently so disparate that our impact is lost in the margin of error.
being trans isn't my whole life either, but every election season it seems like i and people like me are often asked to compromise our values and ourselves because we're still too unpalatable, and i get why. and i guess i'm going to have to be okay with it once again.
whoever said that being raised by assimilationist model minority parents wouldn't have some lessons in the end? keep your head down. don't harsh the vibe. maybe you'll get what you're looking for in the end if you do everything right. hope and work for something better but expect nothing, and be thankful for whatever scraps you get because it could always be worse. and to think, so many wonder why passing is such a goal for so many of those like me.
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:04 PM on August 23 [31 favorites]
like y'all do get how being constantly euphemized and minimized and then being asked to accept it by self-reported allies and your supposed champions is soul-crushing, right? 어쩔 수 없다.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:19 PM on August 23 [21 favorites]
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:19 PM on August 23 [21 favorites]
If it helps, it's not just trans issues. It's just like, the reality of two party politics. It sucks and it's not going to change until voting changes and I hate it every time. Trans rights often seem to be at the end of a long line of bullshit that should be different and it's not at all the same for me as an cis white guy for more reasons that I realize. But whoooo damn can I empathize with that feeling. I don't get euphemized like that but I think I get where you're coming from.
For me it's like being the kind of cold where you can't really get warm again until you've soaked in some hot water or the heat of a warm fire. Like my bones are cold and weary. I want so desperately to live in a world where Harris and the dem platform is the platform of a conservative party. I just want to soak in the warm hot tub of a coalition of real left and liberal parties with you.
I tell myself that these politicians we vote for are tools to work towards that end and it helps a little.
Though I'm finding that I like Walz too much for that. I just see so much of myself and my father in him.
posted by VTX at 10:44 PM on August 23 [4 favorites]
For me it's like being the kind of cold where you can't really get warm again until you've soaked in some hot water or the heat of a warm fire. Like my bones are cold and weary. I want so desperately to live in a world where Harris and the dem platform is the platform of a conservative party. I just want to soak in the warm hot tub of a coalition of real left and liberal parties with you.
I tell myself that these politicians we vote for are tools to work towards that end and it helps a little.
Though I'm finding that I like Walz too much for that. I just see so much of myself and my father in him.
posted by VTX at 10:44 PM on August 23 [4 favorites]
it does not help, thanks!
like i said, i'm willing to accept it because i have no other choice. i don't need to be asked to accept it again, or explained to why it happens, no matter how nicely you phrase it. i get that it's not the only issue. i get that it happens a lot.
i'm also glad that i'm past most of the stuff that's getting banned and that i have a stockpile of technically-expired-but-still-good hrt. and it can always be worse. at least i'm not currently getting bombed into extermination right now, right?
i just don't have the faith required to really be ride or die for a party that would rather refer to me in hushed tones.
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:50 PM on August 23 [14 favorites]
like i said, i'm willing to accept it because i have no other choice. i don't need to be asked to accept it again, or explained to why it happens, no matter how nicely you phrase it. i get that it's not the only issue. i get that it happens a lot.
i'm also glad that i'm past most of the stuff that's getting banned and that i have a stockpile of technically-expired-but-still-good hrt. and it can always be worse. at least i'm not currently getting bombed into extermination right now, right?
i just don't have the faith required to really be ride or die for a party that would rather refer to me in hushed tones.
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:50 PM on August 23 [14 favorites]
on second read, i get that you're commiserating, so i apologize if i'm coming across harsh, or fighty. it's probably better if i just get high so i don't wreck the joyous vibe. why so serious, after all?
at least harris is saying she'll sign legislation to reform cannabis on a federal level, right?
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:59 PM on August 23 [12 favorites]
at least harris is saying she'll sign legislation to reform cannabis on a federal level, right?
posted by i used to be someone else at 10:59 PM on August 23 [12 favorites]
We also don't know the process that when on behind the scenes.
The Washington Post had a story about this. Remarkably, it doesn’t appear to have been managed and agreed upon in advance. This was an organic process, including the response by hundreds of thousands of small donors.
What went on behind the scenes.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 5:17 AM on August 24 [10 favorites]
The Washington Post had a story about this. Remarkably, it doesn’t appear to have been managed and agreed upon in advance. This was an organic process, including the response by hundreds of thousands of small donors.
What went on behind the scenes.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 5:17 AM on August 24 [10 favorites]
Does anyone here have recommendations for videos or even posts comparing DNC and RNC messaging, speeches, speakers, vibes, etc.? I've seen a comparison or three of the signs and slogans the crowd held up, that's great, but has anyone digested, dissected, and/or recapped what was happening on stage? I tried googling it but I didn't get good results.
posted by MiraK at 5:37 AM on August 24 [3 favorites]
posted by MiraK at 5:37 AM on August 24 [3 favorites]
I'm willing to reserve judgement, because the campaign trail isn't where policy gets made. It gets made in the White House and Congress, and you have to get there before you can do that.
Other than this we largely agree. My point wasn't that the Democrats were especially inconpetent. Just the ordinary kind, and assuming they have Sorkinesque master strategy, rather than bumbling along trying to react like most organizations is a mistake. A pronoid conspiracy theory.
But I very much disagree that policy isn't created on the campaign trail. It has to be, because that is the only place voters have any input. Extracting promises and changes in platform in exchange for support is an essential part of having a system that is remotely representative. That's why waiting till Harris is in power to push makes no sense.
There needs to be clear policies to take direct action against genocide before the election. And it needs to be clear there will be electoral consequences for failing to follow through with those policies.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:19 AM on August 24 [2 favorites]
Other than this we largely agree. My point wasn't that the Democrats were especially inconpetent. Just the ordinary kind, and assuming they have Sorkinesque master strategy, rather than bumbling along trying to react like most organizations is a mistake. A pronoid conspiracy theory.
But I very much disagree that policy isn't created on the campaign trail. It has to be, because that is the only place voters have any input. Extracting promises and changes in platform in exchange for support is an essential part of having a system that is remotely representative. That's why waiting till Harris is in power to push makes no sense.
There needs to be clear policies to take direct action against genocide before the election. And it needs to be clear there will be electoral consequences for failing to follow through with those policies.
posted by pattern juggler at 6:19 AM on August 24 [2 favorites]
It is highly unlikely that Harris will make statements during her campaign that contradict Biden as a sitting president, especially since she is currently Vice President.
Outgoing presidents do not make public statements about the platforms and policies of sitting presidents. Bush, for example, said very little in public about Obama's actions during his administration. Clinton also said very little about either Bush or Obama during their terms; it's expected that former presidents and certainly vice presidents not undermine the sitting administration.
Harris is in a unique position of support to a sitting president and a candidate for the office as well. It's extremely unlikely and would be detrimental to her support and image to contradict Biden's actions until she is sworn into office. She's certainly not going to start dictating policy to Biden before she is even elected, especially under the circumstances.
One exception to this is the current Republican candidate, but he is a crude anomaly and counts on sowing division.
posted by effluvia at 7:35 AM on August 24 [24 favorites]
Outgoing presidents do not make public statements about the platforms and policies of sitting presidents. Bush, for example, said very little in public about Obama's actions during his administration. Clinton also said very little about either Bush or Obama during their terms; it's expected that former presidents and certainly vice presidents not undermine the sitting administration.
Harris is in a unique position of support to a sitting president and a candidate for the office as well. It's extremely unlikely and would be detrimental to her support and image to contradict Biden's actions until she is sworn into office. She's certainly not going to start dictating policy to Biden before she is even elected, especially under the circumstances.
One exception to this is the current Republican candidate, but he is a crude anomaly and counts on sowing division.
posted by effluvia at 7:35 AM on August 24 [24 favorites]
But I very much disagree that policy isn't created on the campaign trail. It has to be, because that is the only place voters have any input.
Mate, this isn't how politics works. The election isn't where policies get decided, it's where the score is tallied. The policies get decided by the groups and factions that can turn people out to vote one way or another. This is why unions typically have so much political power, because turning out a large group of people to vote is what they do.
Currently, the Democrat's I/P policy is influenced by a compromise between a lot of different factions. If you want that to move, those factions have to have their position weakened, which means compromising their support. (Americans can talk about the horrors of gun violence because the NRA is a shell of its former self.) Doing this isn't dependent on elections; currently AIPAC are strong enough to get some Democrats turfed out of office but not Ilhan Omar, and if they stop being able to get enough people to call their senators and yell at them, then that changes who the Democrats need to compromise between.
As for trans people, I really think they should be asking some tough questions of their smug LGB allies who got what they wanted and aren't willing to go to bat for trans people.
posted by Merus at 8:07 AM on August 24 [14 favorites]
Mate, this isn't how politics works. The election isn't where policies get decided, it's where the score is tallied. The policies get decided by the groups and factions that can turn people out to vote one way or another. This is why unions typically have so much political power, because turning out a large group of people to vote is what they do.
Currently, the Democrat's I/P policy is influenced by a compromise between a lot of different factions. If you want that to move, those factions have to have their position weakened, which means compromising their support. (Americans can talk about the horrors of gun violence because the NRA is a shell of its former self.) Doing this isn't dependent on elections; currently AIPAC are strong enough to get some Democrats turfed out of office but not Ilhan Omar, and if they stop being able to get enough people to call their senators and yell at them, then that changes who the Democrats need to compromise between.
As for trans people, I really think they should be asking some tough questions of their smug LGB allies who got what they wanted and aren't willing to go to bat for trans people.
posted by Merus at 8:07 AM on August 24 [14 favorites]
Mate, this isn't how politics works. The election isn't where policies get decided, it's where the score is tallied. The policies get decided by the groups and factions that can turn people out to vote one way or another
You say that isn't how it works, then go on to describe it working that way. Candidates change tack on issues based on public response, and they especially do so if they think they are going to lose an upcoming election. The Uncommitted movement forced the DNC to at least make some pretense of caring about genocide by showing they had significant support from voters in a swing state. The question is whether Harris will do enough to keep those voters aligned with her. Right now it doesn't look great.
If they the Democrats think they stand to gain more votes by catering to AIPAC than stopping genocide, they can make that call. It is our job to make them believe otherwise.
There are consequences to choosing to back the pro-genocide camp in the Democratic party. Maybe those consequences will be more beneficial to Harris and Walz than backing the anti-genocide faction. The Democrats need to understand they will lose votes either way. Opponents of genocide are not locked votes they can afford to ignore.
posted by pattern juggler at 8:35 AM on August 24 [4 favorites]
You say that isn't how it works, then go on to describe it working that way. Candidates change tack on issues based on public response, and they especially do so if they think they are going to lose an upcoming election. The Uncommitted movement forced the DNC to at least make some pretense of caring about genocide by showing they had significant support from voters in a swing state. The question is whether Harris will do enough to keep those voters aligned with her. Right now it doesn't look great.
If they the Democrats think they stand to gain more votes by catering to AIPAC than stopping genocide, they can make that call. It is our job to make them believe otherwise.
There are consequences to choosing to back the pro-genocide camp in the Democratic party. Maybe those consequences will be more beneficial to Harris and Walz than backing the anti-genocide faction. The Democrats need to understand they will lose votes either way. Opponents of genocide are not locked votes they can afford to ignore.
posted by pattern juggler at 8:35 AM on August 24 [4 favorites]
If our system worked as designed that's totally how elections would work. But then we'd also have seen the GOP change their platform to appeal to more voters instead of trying to get only "the right" voters to show up and be able to vote.
It's the two-party system. You can't vote your preference, you have to vote to prevent the candidate that's farther from your preference than the other option. From their actions it seems like most democrats understand this so they know they can take a lot of votes for granted. And they can do that because, assuming it's enough votes to make an impact, withholding votes from Harris doesn't hurt her, it hurts everyone. Especially me, who I care most about. It's exhausting for everyone and just gets worse the farther your preference is from the dem platform and/or individual pols.
It's the classic restaurant metaphor. Your options are a shit sandwich or shit stew. If you don't make a decision, the decision is still made for you and you must eat whatever they put in front of you. But the shit sandwich is slightly less bad. The only problem is that enough people refuse to make a decision, everyone gets shit stew and some people get their faces held in it until they suffocate to death.
Please don't make us all eat shit stew.
This also kind of works because the faces I can imagine making while eating said stew are not that different than faces of people that watch nothing but Fox news. In this metaphor, those folks want everyone to have shit stew forced on them and they seem to enjoy it.
posted by VTX at 9:01 AM on August 24 [3 favorites]
It's the two-party system. You can't vote your preference, you have to vote to prevent the candidate that's farther from your preference than the other option. From their actions it seems like most democrats understand this so they know they can take a lot of votes for granted. And they can do that because, assuming it's enough votes to make an impact, withholding votes from Harris doesn't hurt her, it hurts everyone. Especially me, who I care most about. It's exhausting for everyone and just gets worse the farther your preference is from the dem platform and/or individual pols.
It's the classic restaurant metaphor. Your options are a shit sandwich or shit stew. If you don't make a decision, the decision is still made for you and you must eat whatever they put in front of you. But the shit sandwich is slightly less bad. The only problem is that enough people refuse to make a decision, everyone gets shit stew and some people get their faces held in it until they suffocate to death.
Please don't make us all eat shit stew.
This also kind of works because the faces I can imagine making while eating said stew are not that different than faces of people that watch nothing but Fox news. In this metaphor, those folks want everyone to have shit stew forced on them and they seem to enjoy it.
posted by VTX at 9:01 AM on August 24 [3 favorites]
As for trans people, I really think they should be asking some tough questions of their smug LGB allies who got what they wanted and aren't willing to go to bat for trans people.
just curious, do you think trans people somehow haven't been doing that?
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:26 AM on August 24 [15 favorites]
just curious, do you think trans people somehow haven't been doing that?
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:26 AM on August 24 [15 favorites]
NYTimes interviews young undecided voters (archive link). They will continue with this focus group up to the election. Frank Luntz, who is doing this project, previously said that he could not find young women who were undecided. He found some, but men are the majority of the pool.
All of them seem very dispirited about the future of the country. All of them disliked Kamala Harris even more than Donald Trump, but January 6 was a breaking point for them with Trump. Two of the pool of 15 were undecided between RFK and Trump. The vast majority of them seem center-right to right to me, and I don't know if it's just who is undecided (see Luntz's problem with finding undecided young women) or if GenZ is more conservative.
posted by rednikki at 9:37 AM on August 24 [3 favorites]
All of them seem very dispirited about the future of the country. All of them disliked Kamala Harris even more than Donald Trump, but January 6 was a breaking point for them with Trump. Two of the pool of 15 were undecided between RFK and Trump. The vast majority of them seem center-right to right to me, and I don't know if it's just who is undecided (see Luntz's problem with finding undecided young women) or if GenZ is more conservative.
posted by rednikki at 9:37 AM on August 24 [3 favorites]
I don't know if this is 100% accurate, or if this is the right place to put it, but it looks like something is building against terrible Judge Cannon in FL, who threw out the classified documents case (and one or two others) claiming Special Counsel wasn't a lawful position (something which Clarence Thomas signaled she should do?)
Apparently Hunter Biden's lawyers then took that same argument to the judge and said our case should be thrown out too and that was denied (by a Trump judge, but one who was falling inline with MOST of the judge rulings regarding this argument.) I apologize if I've botched that explanation. I am just very encouraged to see the classified documents case may be back in play.
BREAKING: Big ruling signals bad news for Trump's Florida trial
posted by Glinn at 9:50 AM on August 24 [5 favorites]
Apparently Hunter Biden's lawyers then took that same argument to the judge and said our case should be thrown out too and that was denied (by a Trump judge, but one who was falling inline with MOST of the judge rulings regarding this argument.) I apologize if I've botched that explanation. I am just very encouraged to see the classified documents case may be back in play.
BREAKING: Big ruling signals bad news for Trump's Florida trial
posted by Glinn at 9:50 AM on August 24 [5 favorites]
I don't know if it's just who is undecided
Its this. I work on a college campus but not a particularly "liberal" one. Either studnets already know which person they're voting for, or more rarely, they say "my vote doesn't matter" or "they're all assholes" and don't vote. The number of students I've seen on campus (or in my kid's high school) over the past two years who are truly undecided (as in - interested in voting but have not made up their mind) is miniscule.
he could not find young women who were undecided
Mark my words - women ages 18 - 25 will decide this election, and decisively. They know the stakes better than anyone, and they are not going back.
posted by anastasiav at 9:56 AM on August 24 [18 favorites]
Its this. I work on a college campus but not a particularly "liberal" one. Either studnets already know which person they're voting for, or more rarely, they say "my vote doesn't matter" or "they're all assholes" and don't vote. The number of students I've seen on campus (or in my kid's high school) over the past two years who are truly undecided (as in - interested in voting but have not made up their mind) is miniscule.
he could not find young women who were undecided
Mark my words - women ages 18 - 25 will decide this election, and decisively. They know the stakes better than anyone, and they are not going back.
posted by anastasiav at 9:56 AM on August 24 [18 favorites]
Please don't make us all eat shit stew.
I have no power over that decision. Harris and her campaign do.
Some people won't vote for her if she doesn't continue helping support genocide. Some people won't support her if she does. The mistake the campaign feels in danger of making is assuming the anti-genocide voters will show up no matter what, while the pro-genocide voters need to be coaxed.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:01 AM on August 24 [3 favorites]
I have no power over that decision. Harris and her campaign do.
Some people won't vote for her if she doesn't continue helping support genocide. Some people won't support her if she does. The mistake the campaign feels in danger of making is assuming the anti-genocide voters will show up no matter what, while the pro-genocide voters need to be coaxed.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:01 AM on August 24 [3 favorites]
I think the campaign is making the calculation that young women will cancel out the anti-genocide voters. We shall see.
posted by MagnificentVacuum at 10:03 AM on August 24 [2 favorites]
posted by MagnificentVacuum at 10:03 AM on August 24 [2 favorites]
Those don't seem like two groups that are naturally at odds. You can have reproductive rights and no fault divorce without backing the settler colonial violence in Gaza.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:07 AM on August 24 [7 favorites]
posted by pattern juggler at 10:07 AM on August 24 [7 favorites]
Perhaps I am not understanding you--I am saying that in a choice between Trump and Harris, young women will vote for the one who isn't planning on making a national miscarriage tracker and ending no-fault divorce despite their misgivings about the Dem platform on Gaza.
posted by MagnificentVacuum at 10:10 AM on August 24 [6 favorites]
posted by MagnificentVacuum at 10:10 AM on August 24 [6 favorites]
I think perhaps I misunderstood. Unless you assume Harris is actively attached to helping carry out genocide and needs young women to support her despite that, I don't see the relevance. It seems like you would like to have both groups voting for you ideally.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:13 AM on August 24 [2 favorites]
posted by pattern juggler at 10:13 AM on August 24 [2 favorites]
Sure, ideally--but we don't have access to their internal polling and focus group data. From the outside it looks like they are making a calculation that the single-issue genocide voter is less electorally significant to Harris than to Biden. I'm not saying I agree with the campaign or that they are right or wrong--it just looks to me like they think they can claw back some of the youth vote by turning single-issue genocide voters into "hold-my-nose" voters over reproductive rights issues. Biden was polling as relatively soft on women's reproductive rights and I think Harris has a definite advantage over him there, so the campaign is seizing on that.
posted by MagnificentVacuum at 10:22 AM on August 24 [3 favorites]
posted by MagnificentVacuum at 10:22 AM on August 24 [3 favorites]
> the campaign is making the calculation that young women will cancel out the anti-genocide voters
What do you mean, "cancel out"??
In order for votes to "cancel out" the votes should be going opposite ways, which means you think the anti-genocide vote is going to Republicans? Or the young women's vote is? Huh??
posted by MiraK at 10:52 AM on August 24 [3 favorites]
What do you mean, "cancel out"??
In order for votes to "cancel out" the votes should be going opposite ways, which means you think the anti-genocide vote is going to Republicans? Or the young women's vote is? Huh??
posted by MiraK at 10:52 AM on August 24 [3 favorites]
The mistake the campaign feels in danger of making is assuming the anti-genocide voters will show up no matter what, while the pro-genocide voters need to be coaxed.
Framing people who care about issues like repro rights and SCOTUS in addition to Palestine as "pro-genocide voters" is so reductive.
posted by ichomp at 10:54 AM on August 24 [32 favorites]
Framing people who care about issues like repro rights and SCOTUS in addition to Palestine as "pro-genocide voters" is so reductive.
posted by ichomp at 10:54 AM on August 24 [32 favorites]
No but staying home and not voting for Harris helps Trump.
For purely diplomatic reasons as part of her job as vice president, her message isn't going to be different than the administrations.
It might actually be more productive to hound Joe. He doesn't suffer electorally from anything anymore so the leverage isn't there but also doesn't cost Harris votes and...he doesn't suffer electorally so what does have to lose by doing on last bold thing for the good of the country?
posted by VTX at 10:58 AM on August 24 [4 favorites]
For purely diplomatic reasons as part of her job as vice president, her message isn't going to be different than the administrations.
It might actually be more productive to hound Joe. He doesn't suffer electorally from anything anymore so the leverage isn't there but also doesn't cost Harris votes and...he doesn't suffer electorally so what does have to lose by doing on last bold thing for the good of the country?
posted by VTX at 10:58 AM on August 24 [4 favorites]
> --No but staying home and not voting for Harris helps Trump.
That's... not what "cancel out votes" means.
And who is staying home and refusing to vote for Harris, exactly??
posted by MiraK at 10:59 AM on August 24 [2 favorites]
That's... not what "cancel out votes" means.
And who is staying home and refusing to vote for Harris, exactly??
posted by MiraK at 10:59 AM on August 24 [2 favorites]
Framing people who care about issues like repro rights and SCOTUS in addition to Palestine as "pro-genocide voters" is so reductive.
I'm not. The people who will vote for Harris regardless of her stance on Gaza (like me) are not pro-genocide. The people who will not vote for Harris if she takes action to end the genocide are undeniably pro-genocide, however.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:02 AM on August 24 [5 favorites]
I'm not. The people who will vote for Harris regardless of her stance on Gaza (like me) are not pro-genocide. The people who will not vote for Harris if she takes action to end the genocide are undeniably pro-genocide, however.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:02 AM on August 24 [5 favorites]
> > Framing people who care about issues like repro rights and SCOTUS in addition to Palestine as "pro-genocide voters" is so reductive.
> I'm not.
MagnificentVacuum did, when they said young women's votes cancel out the anti-genocide voters' vote. My brain breaks at their comments. What an insane set of hypotheses they are advancing here:
1. That either young women or anti-genocide voters are going republican
2. That young women and anti-genocide voters are necessarily two separate groups in perfect opposition to each other
3. That young women are pro-genocide
posted by MiraK at 11:09 AM on August 24 [2 favorites]
> I'm not.
MagnificentVacuum did, when they said young women's votes cancel out the anti-genocide voters' vote. My brain breaks at their comments. What an insane set of hypotheses they are advancing here:
1. That either young women or anti-genocide voters are going republican
2. That young women and anti-genocide voters are necessarily two separate groups in perfect opposition to each other
3. That young women are pro-genocide
posted by MiraK at 11:09 AM on August 24 [2 favorites]
I think there's a movement among young women that they must "put on their own oxygen mask" before they can save Gaza. I'm also seeing comments that Israel can stop the Gaza atrocities by removing its current govt and is choosing not to so it doesn't matter what the USA does. Also a side helping of Gaza will join the long list of those abandoned by the USA such those in the Sudan and Afghanistan.
Currently circulating on Tumblr on why voting for Kamala matters regardless of your stance on Gaza:
The discussions around whether or not to vote for Kamala keep being dominated by very loud voices shouting that anyone who advocates for her “just doesn’t care about Palestine!” and “is willing to overlook genocide!” and “has no moral backbone at all!” And while some of these voices will be bots, trolls, psyops - we know that this happens; we know that trying to persuade progressives to split the vote or not vote at all is a strategy employed by hostile actors - of course many of them won’t be. But what this rhetoric does is continually force the “you should vote for her” crowd onto the back foot of having to go to great lengths writing entire essays justifying their choice, while the “don’t vote/vote third party” crowd is basically never asked to justify their choice. It frames voting for Kamala as a deeply morally compromised position that requires extensive justification while framing not voting or voting third party as the neutral and morally clean stance.
So here’s another way of looking at it. How much are you willing to accept in order to feel like you’re not compromising your morals on one issue?
Are you willing to accept the 24% rise in maternal deaths - and 39% increase for Black women - that is expected under a federal abortion ban, according to the Centre for American Progress? Those percentages represent real people who are alive now who would die if the folks behind Project 2025 get their way with reproductive healthcare.
Are you willing to accept the massive acceleration of climate change that would result from the scrapping of all climate legislation? We don’t have time to fuck around with the environment. A gutting of climate policy and a prioritisation of fossil fuel profits, which is explicitly promised by Trump, would set the entire world back years - years that we don’t have.
Are you willing to accept the classification of transgender visibility as inherently “pornographic” and thus the removal of trans people from public life? Are you willing to accept the total elimination of legal routes for gender-affirming care? The people behind the Trump campaign want to drive queer and trans people back underground, back into the closet, back into “criminality”. This will kill people. And it’s maddening that caring about this gets called “prioritising white gays over brown people abroad” as if it’s not BIPOC queer and trans Americans who will suffer the most from legislative queer- and transphobia, as they always do.
Are you willing to accept the domestic deployment of the military to crack down on protests and enforce racist immigration policy? I’m sure it’s going to be very easy to convince huge numbers of normal people to turn up to protests and get involved in political organising when doing so may well involve facing down an army deployed by a hardcore authoritarian operating under the precedent that nothing he does as president can ever be illegal.
Are you willing to accept a president who openly talks about wanting to be a dictator, plans on massively expanding presidential powers, dehumanises his political enemies and wants the DOJ to “go after them”, and assures his supporters they won’t have to vote again? If you can’t see the danger of this staring you right in the face, I don’t know what to tell you. Allowing a wannabe dictator to take control of the most powerful country on earth would be absolutely disastrous for the entire world.
Are you willing to accept an enormous uptick in fascism and far-right authoritarianism worldwide? The far right in America has huge influence over an entire international network of “anti-globalists”, hardcore anti-immigrant xenophobes, transphobic extremists, and straight-up fascists. Success in America aids and emboldens these people everywhere.
Are you willing to accept an enormous number of preventable deaths if America faces a crisis in the next four years: a public health emergency, a natural disaster, an ecological catastrophe? We all saw how Trump handled Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico. We all saw how Trump handled Covid-19. He fanned the flames of disaster with a constant flow of medical misinformation and an unspeakably dangerous undermining of public health experts. It’s estimated that 40% of US pandemic deaths could have been avoided if the death rates had corresponded to those in other high-income countries. That amounts to nearly half a million people. One study from January 2021 estimated between around 4,200 and 12,200 preventable deaths attributable purely to Trump’s statements about masks. We’re highly unlikely to face another global pandemic in the next few years but who knows what crises are coming down the pipeline?
Are you willing to accept the attempted deportation of millions - millions - of undocumented people? This is “rounding people up and throwing them into camps where no one ever hears from them again” territory. That’s a blueprint for genocide right there and it’s a core tenet of both Trump’s personal policy and Project 2025. And of course they wouldn’t be going after white people. They most likely wouldn’t even restrict their tyranny to people who are actually undocumented. Anyone racially othered as an “immigrant” would be at risk from this.
There is no way that Trump and the people behind him would not be catastrophically worse for Gaza than Kamala or even Biden. Only recently he was telling donors behind closed doors that he wanted to “set the [Palestinian] movement back 25 or 30 years” and that “any student that protests, I throw them out of the country”. This is not a man who can be pushed in a direction more conducive to peace and justice. This is a man who listens to his wealthy donors, his Christian nationalist Republican allies, and himself.
Are you willing to accept a much heightened risk of nuclear war? Obviously this is hardly a Trump policy promise. But I can’t think of a single president since the Cold War who is more likely to deploy nuclear weapons, given how casually he talks about wanting to use them and how erratic and unstable he can be in his dealings with foreign leaders. To quote Foreign Policy only this year, “Trump told a crowd in January that one of the reasons he needed immunity was so that he couldn’t be indicted for using nuclear weapons on a city.” That’s reassuring. I’m not even in the US and I remember four years of constant background low-level terror that Trump would take offence at something some foreign leader said or think that he needs to personally intervene in some military situation to “sort it out” and decide to launch the entire world into nuclear war. No one sane on earth wants the most powerful person on the planet to be as trigger-happy and careless with human life as he is, especially if he’s running the White House like a dictator with no one ever telling him no. But depending on what Americans do in November, he may well be inflicted again on all of us, and I guess we’ll all just have to hope that he doesn’t do the worst thing imaginable.
“But I don’t want those things! Stop accusing me of supporting things I don’t support!” Yes, of course you don’t want those things. None of us does. No one’s saying that you actively support them. No one’s accusing you of wanting Black women to die from ectopic pregnancies or of wanting to throw Hispanic people in immigrant detention centres or of wanting trans people to be outlawed (unlike, I must point out, the extremely emotive and personal accusations that get thrown around about “wanting Palestinian children to die” if you encourage people to vote for Kamala).
But if you’re advocating against voting for Kamala, you are clearly willing to accept them as possible consequences of your actions. That is the deal you’re making. If a terrible thing happening is the clear and easily foreseeable outcome of your action (or in the case of not voting, inaction), in a way that could have been prevented by taking a different and just as easy action, you are partly responsible for that consequence. (And no, it’s not “a fear campaign” to warn people about things he’s said, things he wants to do, and plans drawn up by his close allies. This is not “oooh the Democrats are trying to bully you into voting for them by making him out to be really bad so you’ll feel scared and vote for Kamala!” He is really bad, in obvious and documented and irrefutable ways.)
And if you believe that “both parties are the same on Gaza” (which, you know, they really aren’t, but let’s just pretend that they are) then presumably you accept that the horrors being committed there will continue, in the immediate term anyway, regardless of who wins the presidency. Because there really isn’t some third option that will appear and do everything we want. It’s going to be one of those two. And we can talk all day about wanting a better system or how unfair it is that every presidential election only ever has two viable candidates and how small the Overton window is and all that but hell, we are less than eighty days out from the election; none of that is going to get fixed between now and November. Electoral reform is a long-term (but important!) goal, not something that can be effected in the span of a couple of months by telling people online to vote third party. There is no “instant ceasefire and peace negotiation” button that we’re callously overlooking by encouraging people to vote for Kamala. (My god, if there was, we would all be pressing it.)
If we’re suggesting people vote for her, it’s not that we “are willing to overlook genocide” or “don’t care about sacrificing brown people abroad” or whatever. Nothing is being “overlooked” here. It’s that we’re simply not willing to accept everything else in this post and more on top of continued atrocities in Gaza. We’re not willing to take Trump and his godawful far-right authoritarian agenda as an acceptable consequence of feeling like we have the moral high ground on Palestine. I cannot stress enough that if Kamala doesn’t win, we - we all, in the whole world - get Trump. Are you willing to accept that?
And one more point to address: I’ve seen too many people act frighteningly flippant and naïve about terrible things Trump or his campaign want to do, with the idea that people will simply be able to prevent all these bad things by “organising” and “protesting” and “collective action”. “I’m not willing to accept these things; that’s why I’ll fight them tooth and nail every day of their administration” - OK but if you’re not even willing to cast a vote then I have doubts about your ability to form “the Resistance”, which by the way would have to involve cooperation with people of lots of progressive political stripes in order to have the manpower to be effective, and if you’re so committed to political purity that you view temporarily lending your support to Kamala at the ballot box as an untenable betrayal of everything you stand for then forgive me for also doubting your ability to productively cooperate with allies on the ground with whom you don’t 100% agree. Plus, if the Trump campaign gets its way, American progressives would be kept so busy trying to put out about twenty different fires at once that you’d be able to accomplish very little. Maybe you get them to soften their stance on trans healthcare but oh shit, the climate policies are still in place. But more importantly, how many people do you think will protest for abortion rights if doing so means staring down a gun? Or organise to protect their neighbours from deportation if doing so means being thrown in prison yourself? And OK, maybe you’re sure that you will, but history has shown us time and time again that most people won’t. Most people aren’t willing to face that kind of personal risk. And a tiny number of lefties willing to risk incarceration or death to protect undocumented people or trans people or whatever other groups are targeted is sadly not enough to prevent the horrors from happening. That is small fry compared to the full might of a determined state. Of course if the worst happens and Trump wins then you should do what you can to mitigate the harm; I’m not saying you shouldn’t. But really the time to act is now. You have an opportunity right here to mitigate the harm and it’s called “not letting him get elected”. Act now to prevent that kind of horrific authoritarian situation from developing in the first place; don’t sit this one out under the naïve belief that “we’ll be able to stop it if it happens”. You won’t.
posted by beaning at 11:15 AM on August 24 [88 favorites]
Currently circulating on Tumblr on why voting for Kamala matters regardless of your stance on Gaza:
The discussions around whether or not to vote for Kamala keep being dominated by very loud voices shouting that anyone who advocates for her “just doesn’t care about Palestine!” and “is willing to overlook genocide!” and “has no moral backbone at all!” And while some of these voices will be bots, trolls, psyops - we know that this happens; we know that trying to persuade progressives to split the vote or not vote at all is a strategy employed by hostile actors - of course many of them won’t be. But what this rhetoric does is continually force the “you should vote for her” crowd onto the back foot of having to go to great lengths writing entire essays justifying their choice, while the “don’t vote/vote third party” crowd is basically never asked to justify their choice. It frames voting for Kamala as a deeply morally compromised position that requires extensive justification while framing not voting or voting third party as the neutral and morally clean stance.
So here’s another way of looking at it. How much are you willing to accept in order to feel like you’re not compromising your morals on one issue?
Are you willing to accept the 24% rise in maternal deaths - and 39% increase for Black women - that is expected under a federal abortion ban, according to the Centre for American Progress? Those percentages represent real people who are alive now who would die if the folks behind Project 2025 get their way with reproductive healthcare.
Are you willing to accept the massive acceleration of climate change that would result from the scrapping of all climate legislation? We don’t have time to fuck around with the environment. A gutting of climate policy and a prioritisation of fossil fuel profits, which is explicitly promised by Trump, would set the entire world back years - years that we don’t have.
Are you willing to accept the classification of transgender visibility as inherently “pornographic” and thus the removal of trans people from public life? Are you willing to accept the total elimination of legal routes for gender-affirming care? The people behind the Trump campaign want to drive queer and trans people back underground, back into the closet, back into “criminality”. This will kill people. And it’s maddening that caring about this gets called “prioritising white gays over brown people abroad” as if it’s not BIPOC queer and trans Americans who will suffer the most from legislative queer- and transphobia, as they always do.
Are you willing to accept the domestic deployment of the military to crack down on protests and enforce racist immigration policy? I’m sure it’s going to be very easy to convince huge numbers of normal people to turn up to protests and get involved in political organising when doing so may well involve facing down an army deployed by a hardcore authoritarian operating under the precedent that nothing he does as president can ever be illegal.
Are you willing to accept a president who openly talks about wanting to be a dictator, plans on massively expanding presidential powers, dehumanises his political enemies and wants the DOJ to “go after them”, and assures his supporters they won’t have to vote again? If you can’t see the danger of this staring you right in the face, I don’t know what to tell you. Allowing a wannabe dictator to take control of the most powerful country on earth would be absolutely disastrous for the entire world.
Are you willing to accept an enormous uptick in fascism and far-right authoritarianism worldwide? The far right in America has huge influence over an entire international network of “anti-globalists”, hardcore anti-immigrant xenophobes, transphobic extremists, and straight-up fascists. Success in America aids and emboldens these people everywhere.
Are you willing to accept an enormous number of preventable deaths if America faces a crisis in the next four years: a public health emergency, a natural disaster, an ecological catastrophe? We all saw how Trump handled Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico. We all saw how Trump handled Covid-19. He fanned the flames of disaster with a constant flow of medical misinformation and an unspeakably dangerous undermining of public health experts. It’s estimated that 40% of US pandemic deaths could have been avoided if the death rates had corresponded to those in other high-income countries. That amounts to nearly half a million people. One study from January 2021 estimated between around 4,200 and 12,200 preventable deaths attributable purely to Trump’s statements about masks. We’re highly unlikely to face another global pandemic in the next few years but who knows what crises are coming down the pipeline?
Are you willing to accept the attempted deportation of millions - millions - of undocumented people? This is “rounding people up and throwing them into camps where no one ever hears from them again” territory. That’s a blueprint for genocide right there and it’s a core tenet of both Trump’s personal policy and Project 2025. And of course they wouldn’t be going after white people. They most likely wouldn’t even restrict their tyranny to people who are actually undocumented. Anyone racially othered as an “immigrant” would be at risk from this.
There is no way that Trump and the people behind him would not be catastrophically worse for Gaza than Kamala or even Biden. Only recently he was telling donors behind closed doors that he wanted to “set the [Palestinian] movement back 25 or 30 years” and that “any student that protests, I throw them out of the country”. This is not a man who can be pushed in a direction more conducive to peace and justice. This is a man who listens to his wealthy donors, his Christian nationalist Republican allies, and himself.
Are you willing to accept a much heightened risk of nuclear war? Obviously this is hardly a Trump policy promise. But I can’t think of a single president since the Cold War who is more likely to deploy nuclear weapons, given how casually he talks about wanting to use them and how erratic and unstable he can be in his dealings with foreign leaders. To quote Foreign Policy only this year, “Trump told a crowd in January that one of the reasons he needed immunity was so that he couldn’t be indicted for using nuclear weapons on a city.” That’s reassuring. I’m not even in the US and I remember four years of constant background low-level terror that Trump would take offence at something some foreign leader said or think that he needs to personally intervene in some military situation to “sort it out” and decide to launch the entire world into nuclear war. No one sane on earth wants the most powerful person on the planet to be as trigger-happy and careless with human life as he is, especially if he’s running the White House like a dictator with no one ever telling him no. But depending on what Americans do in November, he may well be inflicted again on all of us, and I guess we’ll all just have to hope that he doesn’t do the worst thing imaginable.
“But I don’t want those things! Stop accusing me of supporting things I don’t support!” Yes, of course you don’t want those things. None of us does. No one’s saying that you actively support them. No one’s accusing you of wanting Black women to die from ectopic pregnancies or of wanting to throw Hispanic people in immigrant detention centres or of wanting trans people to be outlawed (unlike, I must point out, the extremely emotive and personal accusations that get thrown around about “wanting Palestinian children to die” if you encourage people to vote for Kamala).
But if you’re advocating against voting for Kamala, you are clearly willing to accept them as possible consequences of your actions. That is the deal you’re making. If a terrible thing happening is the clear and easily foreseeable outcome of your action (or in the case of not voting, inaction), in a way that could have been prevented by taking a different and just as easy action, you are partly responsible for that consequence. (And no, it’s not “a fear campaign” to warn people about things he’s said, things he wants to do, and plans drawn up by his close allies. This is not “oooh the Democrats are trying to bully you into voting for them by making him out to be really bad so you’ll feel scared and vote for Kamala!” He is really bad, in obvious and documented and irrefutable ways.)
And if you believe that “both parties are the same on Gaza” (which, you know, they really aren’t, but let’s just pretend that they are) then presumably you accept that the horrors being committed there will continue, in the immediate term anyway, regardless of who wins the presidency. Because there really isn’t some third option that will appear and do everything we want. It’s going to be one of those two. And we can talk all day about wanting a better system or how unfair it is that every presidential election only ever has two viable candidates and how small the Overton window is and all that but hell, we are less than eighty days out from the election; none of that is going to get fixed between now and November. Electoral reform is a long-term (but important!) goal, not something that can be effected in the span of a couple of months by telling people online to vote third party. There is no “instant ceasefire and peace negotiation” button that we’re callously overlooking by encouraging people to vote for Kamala. (My god, if there was, we would all be pressing it.)
If we’re suggesting people vote for her, it’s not that we “are willing to overlook genocide” or “don’t care about sacrificing brown people abroad” or whatever. Nothing is being “overlooked” here. It’s that we’re simply not willing to accept everything else in this post and more on top of continued atrocities in Gaza. We’re not willing to take Trump and his godawful far-right authoritarian agenda as an acceptable consequence of feeling like we have the moral high ground on Palestine. I cannot stress enough that if Kamala doesn’t win, we - we all, in the whole world - get Trump. Are you willing to accept that?
And one more point to address: I’ve seen too many people act frighteningly flippant and naïve about terrible things Trump or his campaign want to do, with the idea that people will simply be able to prevent all these bad things by “organising” and “protesting” and “collective action”. “I’m not willing to accept these things; that’s why I’ll fight them tooth and nail every day of their administration” - OK but if you’re not even willing to cast a vote then I have doubts about your ability to form “the Resistance”, which by the way would have to involve cooperation with people of lots of progressive political stripes in order to have the manpower to be effective, and if you’re so committed to political purity that you view temporarily lending your support to Kamala at the ballot box as an untenable betrayal of everything you stand for then forgive me for also doubting your ability to productively cooperate with allies on the ground with whom you don’t 100% agree. Plus, if the Trump campaign gets its way, American progressives would be kept so busy trying to put out about twenty different fires at once that you’d be able to accomplish very little. Maybe you get them to soften their stance on trans healthcare but oh shit, the climate policies are still in place. But more importantly, how many people do you think will protest for abortion rights if doing so means staring down a gun? Or organise to protect their neighbours from deportation if doing so means being thrown in prison yourself? And OK, maybe you’re sure that you will, but history has shown us time and time again that most people won’t. Most people aren’t willing to face that kind of personal risk. And a tiny number of lefties willing to risk incarceration or death to protect undocumented people or trans people or whatever other groups are targeted is sadly not enough to prevent the horrors from happening. That is small fry compared to the full might of a determined state. Of course if the worst happens and Trump wins then you should do what you can to mitigate the harm; I’m not saying you shouldn’t. But really the time to act is now. You have an opportunity right here to mitigate the harm and it’s called “not letting him get elected”. Act now to prevent that kind of horrific authoritarian situation from developing in the first place; don’t sit this one out under the naïve belief that “we’ll be able to stop it if it happens”. You won’t.
posted by beaning at 11:15 AM on August 24 [88 favorites]
beaning, is anyone who is anti-Kamala here in the room with us?
At best your comment is a resource someone can use to argue against the trolls you are telling us exist on tumblr or wherever, but inserting it into this thread when it's suffering under yet another "pro genocide" derail is a weird choice. Your comment implies that there is indeed such a thing as a pro-genocide vote, and that this voting block is strong enough here that impassioned pleas and detailed casebuilding is necessary *here* to thwart them.
posted by MiraK at 11:18 AM on August 24 [7 favorites]
At best your comment is a resource someone can use to argue against the trolls you are telling us exist on tumblr or wherever, but inserting it into this thread when it's suffering under yet another "pro genocide" derail is a weird choice. Your comment implies that there is indeed such a thing as a pro-genocide vote, and that this voting block is strong enough here that impassioned pleas and detailed casebuilding is necessary *here* to thwart them.
posted by MiraK at 11:18 AM on August 24 [7 favorites]
MiraK, do you mean Pro-Trumpists in this specific thread and site? Not openly, but I think I see a fair amount of discussion in a good number of threads that mention not voting or do not seem to recognize the multitude of issues to be balanced by individuals--maybe I need to get out more.
posted by beaning at 11:25 AM on August 24 [12 favorites]
posted by beaning at 11:25 AM on August 24 [12 favorites]
And I put it here to give perspective on the discussion happening among younger people given the above discussion about young women's votes. As has been said, nothing on Metafilter is strongly going to influence the outcome (everyone here is relatively united on this front) but what's spread on Tumblr and X and other sites might.
Edit: to be clear: there are discussions discouraging voting happening on sites that better rep the younger generation and we should recognize the issues younger voters are being asked to weigh and how those issues are being framed.
posted by beaning at 11:29 AM on August 24 [12 favorites]
Edit: to be clear: there are discussions discouraging voting happening on sites that better rep the younger generation and we should recognize the issues younger voters are being asked to weigh and how those issues are being framed.
posted by beaning at 11:29 AM on August 24 [12 favorites]
I don't know that I would deliberately bring attention to Harris' statements on the border with folks on Tumblr in order to move them to her side. For that matter, the rise of authoritarianism and the handling of covid aren't great issues for the administration either, although they are inarguably better than Trump on those issues.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:33 AM on August 24 [4 favorites]
posted by pattern juggler at 11:33 AM on August 24 [4 favorites]
the single-issue genocide voter
This is an absolutely bananas phrase to me.
posted by Gadarene at 11:51 AM on August 24 [13 favorites]
This is an absolutely bananas phrase to me.
posted by Gadarene at 11:51 AM on August 24 [13 favorites]
But if you’re advocating against voting for Kamala, you are clearly willing to accept them as possible consequences of your actions. That is the deal you’re making. If a terrible thing happening is the clear and easily foreseeable outcome of your action (or in the case of not voting, inaction), in a way that could have been prevented by taking a different and just as easy action, you are partly responsible for that consequence.
So, if "people seeing contributing to genocide as a red-line" is an electoral risk (either in general turnout or in depressed turnout in Michigan and other vital Electoral College states)... doesn't all this flip around? I'm still not sure that holding as immutable the idea of a group of people that would be willing to risk all that to punish the Democrats for even holding up continued arms shipments makes sense. Are there people out there that would fit that category? Sure.
But are they so committed to their cause that they'd be more willing to let all that happen, are they out there in large enough numbers, are they distributed in electorally significant locations? That seems like a tall set of assumptions, and it may actually be the case but I haven't seen people showing their work there. Instead it's assumed, and so pressure's brought to bear on... convincing Palestinian-Americans that their sacrifice is for the greater good? Is that really the more convincible group?
I know it's a common pattern, but it doesn't make sense to me unless the thought is that convincing genocide-as-red-line voters is *easier* than convincing militant-Zionism-as-red-line voters that everything you just laid out is as important as it is.
posted by CrystalDave at 11:52 AM on August 24 [7 favorites]
So, if "people seeing contributing to genocide as a red-line" is an electoral risk (either in general turnout or in depressed turnout in Michigan and other vital Electoral College states)... doesn't all this flip around? I'm still not sure that holding as immutable the idea of a group of people that would be willing to risk all that to punish the Democrats for even holding up continued arms shipments makes sense. Are there people out there that would fit that category? Sure.
But are they so committed to their cause that they'd be more willing to let all that happen, are they out there in large enough numbers, are they distributed in electorally significant locations? That seems like a tall set of assumptions, and it may actually be the case but I haven't seen people showing their work there. Instead it's assumed, and so pressure's brought to bear on... convincing Palestinian-Americans that their sacrifice is for the greater good? Is that really the more convincible group?
I know it's a common pattern, but it doesn't make sense to me unless the thought is that convincing genocide-as-red-line voters is *easier* than convincing militant-Zionism-as-red-line voters that everything you just laid out is as important as it is.
posted by CrystalDave at 11:52 AM on August 24 [7 favorites]
I think there's a movement among young women that they must "put on their own oxygen mask" before they can save Gaza.
"Putting on your own oxygen mask first" is nothing new; it's recommended for everyone about everything, and sometimes it is something life forces you to do anyway (if you are working minimum wage and trying to take care of both school age children and elderly parents then I imagine you would be too tired to think about social issues where you live, let alone what people in another country are facing).
Does this suck that we're squeezed so tight? Absolutely. Should we all have an easy enough time of life admin to be able to work for the benefit of others? Absolutely. But is this human? Also absolutely. Does it make you a bad person if you are too exhausted to be able to contribute to solving issue X because you are burning your energy caring for your kids, your parents, yourself, and maybe issue Y because your kids are directly affected by issue Y? Absolutely not.
Fortunately (she said, trying to bring things back within shouting distance of the topic), some of Harris' platform might lessen the burden of life admin domestically (economically, at the very least).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:15 PM on August 24 [12 favorites]
"Putting on your own oxygen mask first" is nothing new; it's recommended for everyone about everything, and sometimes it is something life forces you to do anyway (if you are working minimum wage and trying to take care of both school age children and elderly parents then I imagine you would be too tired to think about social issues where you live, let alone what people in another country are facing).
Does this suck that we're squeezed so tight? Absolutely. Should we all have an easy enough time of life admin to be able to work for the benefit of others? Absolutely. But is this human? Also absolutely. Does it make you a bad person if you are too exhausted to be able to contribute to solving issue X because you are burning your energy caring for your kids, your parents, yourself, and maybe issue Y because your kids are directly affected by issue Y? Absolutely not.
Fortunately (she said, trying to bring things back within shouting distance of the topic), some of Harris' platform might lessen the burden of life admin domestically (economically, at the very least).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:15 PM on August 24 [12 favorites]
Mod note: Couple of comments removed. Let's avoid accusing other members of being a certain way.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 1:06 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 1:06 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
Thank you for that beaning.
Unrelated, I remembered earlier today that the Swifties for Kamala call is this Tuesday.
posted by cashman at 1:13 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
Unrelated, I remembered earlier today that the Swifties for Kamala call is this Tuesday.
posted by cashman at 1:13 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
unless the thought is that convincing genocide-as-red-line voters is *easier* than convincing militant-Zionism-as-red-line voters that everything you just laid out is as important as it is.
But what if current US support of Israel has little to do with getting votes, and a lot to do with geopolitical strategy? What if it's about alliances, postures, geographical positions, military assets, and the threat of larger wars?
I think most foreign policy is like this. And I
it's just very hard to disentangle a country from a military alliance without upsetting power balances in a way that can turn into war. So we end up in military alliances with some nightmare regimes. This is not be the first time in history that has happened.
And electing new leaders may not even change anything. Because they're not free to do what they believe is right OR what they believe is electorally beneficial. They are constrained by circumstance to do whatever does not upset delicate strategic balances.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:24 PM on August 24 [14 favorites]
But what if current US support of Israel has little to do with getting votes, and a lot to do with geopolitical strategy? What if it's about alliances, postures, geographical positions, military assets, and the threat of larger wars?
I think most foreign policy is like this. And I
it's just very hard to disentangle a country from a military alliance without upsetting power balances in a way that can turn into war. So we end up in military alliances with some nightmare regimes. This is not be the first time in history that has happened.
And electing new leaders may not even change anything. Because they're not free to do what they believe is right OR what they believe is electorally beneficial. They are constrained by circumstance to do whatever does not upset delicate strategic balances.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:24 PM on August 24 [14 favorites]
Wasn't the whole reason we invaded iraq to establish a second american base in the middle east so we wouldn't need israel? What happened there?
posted by stet at 1:39 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
posted by stet at 1:39 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
among other concerns, 300,000 people are confirmed dead.
posted by philip-random at 1:52 PM on August 24 [6 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 1:52 PM on August 24 [6 favorites]
Chris Swanson, the Republican sheriff who spoke at the DNC (and whom i mentioned above for other terrible conduct) also banned children from visiting their incarcerated parents in order to make more money from monopoly prison phone service.
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:59 PM on August 24 [9 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 1:59 PM on August 24 [9 favorites]
But what if current US support of Israel has little to do with getting votes, and a lot to do with geopolitical strategy? What if it's about alliances, postures, geographical positions, military assets, and the threat of larger wars?
The US definitely cares about its strategic interests in the region. It does not seem concerned with avoiding a wider regional war. If it were, Netanyahu would have faced some consequences for scuttling ceasefire talks and continually trying to provoke Iran, Syria, and Egypt. A large chunk of the US military and political elite have been anxious to bloody Iran again since they had to stop arming Itaq and turning a blind eye to chemical weapons use against the Kurds back in the 80s. I am sure there are plenty of voice promising Netanyahu support if he needs to "defend Israel from Iran".
So the real question is whether Harris will continue to assist in genocide to protect US access to petroleum.
If so, then we are dealing a moral bankruptcy even greater than that involved in supporting the coup against Mossadegh and the rule of the Shah in Iran, the backing of Pinochet in Chile, or the propping up of Hussein in Iraq.
It would mean that every claim the US has made about respecting human rights and anti-colonialism has been a lie, and the government is every bit as monstrous as it was when we were extirpating the Indigenous population and their cultures and enforcing chattel slavery.
It means anyone who is at all serious needs to abandon any pretense that the US is any kind of force for good in the world or ever could be, and recognize our military spending is directly fueling endless human misery.
If we are willing to engage in genocide in order to keep oil flowing, and no viable candidate can or will change that, even under the threat of losing an election then the whole idea of fixing the US from within is bogus and we should treat the US like Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan. An enemy to all decent people everywhere.
posted by pattern juggler at 2:06 PM on August 24 [11 favorites]
The US definitely cares about its strategic interests in the region. It does not seem concerned with avoiding a wider regional war. If it were, Netanyahu would have faced some consequences for scuttling ceasefire talks and continually trying to provoke Iran, Syria, and Egypt. A large chunk of the US military and political elite have been anxious to bloody Iran again since they had to stop arming Itaq and turning a blind eye to chemical weapons use against the Kurds back in the 80s. I am sure there are plenty of voice promising Netanyahu support if he needs to "defend Israel from Iran".
So the real question is whether Harris will continue to assist in genocide to protect US access to petroleum.
If so, then we are dealing a moral bankruptcy even greater than that involved in supporting the coup against Mossadegh and the rule of the Shah in Iran, the backing of Pinochet in Chile, or the propping up of Hussein in Iraq.
It would mean that every claim the US has made about respecting human rights and anti-colonialism has been a lie, and the government is every bit as monstrous as it was when we were extirpating the Indigenous population and their cultures and enforcing chattel slavery.
It means anyone who is at all serious needs to abandon any pretense that the US is any kind of force for good in the world or ever could be, and recognize our military spending is directly fueling endless human misery.
If we are willing to engage in genocide in order to keep oil flowing, and no viable candidate can or will change that, even under the threat of losing an election then the whole idea of fixing the US from within is bogus and we should treat the US like Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan. An enemy to all decent people everywhere.
posted by pattern juggler at 2:06 PM on August 24 [11 favorites]
While I personally consider killing 300,000 middle easterners to be a bad thing that's not really a value I'm seeing reflected by Kamala and Walz. The indifference to palestinian lives makes me wonder if Toby Keith has a new single coming out cuz it's feeling like 2003.
posted by stet at 2:18 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
posted by stet at 2:18 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
rednikki: I don't know if it's just who is undecided (see Luntz's problem with finding undecided young women) or if GenZ is more conservative.
Gen-Z women are more liberal; Gen-Z men are more red-pilled.
"the single-issue genocide voter"
Gadarene: This is an absolutely bananas phrase to me.
Then you're not hanging out where women aged 8-25 are hanging out and discussing this election (Tumblr). They absolutely will not vote for Harris because of the Palestinian genocide and they are actively working to get others to refrain from voting for her, and attacking those who try to reason with them with "die," "kill yourself," "hope you are murdered" and the like. Whenever anyone brings up the many, many points made in this thread and elsewhere on MetaFilter about how Trump will be equally bad or worse for Gaza and will be *infinitely* worse for the U.S. and the world for everything else, they--and I cannot stress this enough--do not care. They are single-issue voters, their issue is the Palestinian genocide, and they will not vote. People have been trying for months to break through, but it appears to be an impossible task. They hold that not voting for Harris is more morally pure than voting for her as harm reduction because she is supporting genocide and they can't vote *for* that. Being morally pure is more important to them than what will happen to the U.S. and the world if they "betray" their morality. Call it bananas all you like, but that's the reality of it.
posted by tzikeh at 2:36 PM on August 24 [14 favorites]
Gen-Z women are more liberal; Gen-Z men are more red-pilled.
"the single-issue genocide voter"
Gadarene: This is an absolutely bananas phrase to me.
Then you're not hanging out where women aged 8-25 are hanging out and discussing this election (Tumblr). They absolutely will not vote for Harris because of the Palestinian genocide and they are actively working to get others to refrain from voting for her, and attacking those who try to reason with them with "die," "kill yourself," "hope you are murdered" and the like. Whenever anyone brings up the many, many points made in this thread and elsewhere on MetaFilter about how Trump will be equally bad or worse for Gaza and will be *infinitely* worse for the U.S. and the world for everything else, they--and I cannot stress this enough--do not care. They are single-issue voters, their issue is the Palestinian genocide, and they will not vote. People have been trying for months to break through, but it appears to be an impossible task. They hold that not voting for Harris is more morally pure than voting for her as harm reduction because she is supporting genocide and they can't vote *for* that. Being morally pure is more important to them than what will happen to the U.S. and the world if they "betray" their morality. Call it bananas all you like, but that's the reality of it.
posted by tzikeh at 2:36 PM on August 24 [14 favorites]
The Myth of the "Poll-Driven" Democrat Is Cover for Conservative Policy Preferences
(Adam Johnson at In These Times)
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:39 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
(Adam Johnson at In These Times)
posted by adrienneleigh at 2:39 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
Then you're not hanging out where women aged 8-25 are hanging out and discussing this election (Tumblr).
I think you misunderstood why I found it to be an absolutely bananas phrase.
posted by Gadarene at 2:52 PM on August 24 [9 favorites]
I think you misunderstood why I found it to be an absolutely bananas phrase.
posted by Gadarene at 2:52 PM on August 24 [9 favorites]
They hold that not voting for Harris is more morally pure than voting for her as harm reduction because she is supporting genocide and they can't vote *for* that. Being morally pure is more important to them than what will happen to the U.S. and the world if they "betray" their morality. Call it bananas all you like, but that's the reality of it.
The extremeness of this position and the fact that it's happening on Tumblr (which may be the place that demographic "hangs out" or may be the platform most aggressively targeted by let's say Russian psyops disinfo. I don't know how to tell.)
makes this suspect.
The expressed position has the "cui bono" of reducing Harris support so disinfo seems more plausible than this specific demographic being unified in the face of the erosion of abortion rights..
posted by Lenie Clarke at 2:54 PM on August 24 [12 favorites]
The extremeness of this position and the fact that it's happening on Tumblr (which may be the place that demographic "hangs out" or may be the platform most aggressively targeted by let's say Russian psyops disinfo. I don't know how to tell.)
makes this suspect.
The expressed position has the "cui bono" of reducing Harris support so disinfo seems more plausible than this specific demographic being unified in the face of the erosion of abortion rights..
posted by Lenie Clarke at 2:54 PM on August 24 [12 favorites]
My reading is that Gadarene believes that it's bananas that everybody isn't a single issue genocide voter, however you definite that phrase.
posted by Justinian at 2:55 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
posted by Justinian at 2:55 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
Correct, and it wasn't my intention to be coy or cause guessing games, so I apologize that it wasn't clearer.
posted by Gadarene at 3:01 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
posted by Gadarene at 3:01 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
General (not in the voting sense) election info. For anybody else that didn't know (I just learned), some states lost Electoral Votes based on the results of the 2000 census.
https://www.wbur.org/npr/983082132/census-to-release-1st-results-that-shift-electoral-college-house-seats
https://www.wbur.org/npr/983082132/census-to-release-1st-results-that-shift-electoral-college-house-seats
Texas has gained two more votes in Congress and the Electoral College for the next decade, while Colorado, Florida, Montana, North Carolina and Oregon each gained one seat, based on the first set of results from the 2020 census, released Monday. The seven states losing one vote each are California, Illinois, Michigan, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia.posted by cashman at 3:02 PM on August 24 [8 favorites]
The expressed position has the "cui bono" of reducing Harris support so disinfo seems more plausible than this specific demographic being unified in the face of the erosion of abortion rights.
I've been there a long time and I've seen my share of disinformation campaigns/bots. I get daily abuse about this in my inbox. The accounts I'm talking about are real people who engage in plenty of other conversations and topics over years and years of being on Tumblr--not a lot of disinfo bots getting into the tall grass for Supernatural mpreg, for example, or producing fan art and fanfic and being on discords and running fanfiction challenges. They are real people, and nothing, abortion rights included, matters to them in this election except Palestine.
I think you misunderstood why I found it to be an absolutely bananas phrase.
It seems so. I should probably have held off replying until I'd taken a deep breath or five.
posted by tzikeh at 3:07 PM on August 24 [6 favorites]
I've been there a long time and I've seen my share of disinformation campaigns/bots. I get daily abuse about this in my inbox. The accounts I'm talking about are real people who engage in plenty of other conversations and topics over years and years of being on Tumblr--not a lot of disinfo bots getting into the tall grass for Supernatural mpreg, for example, or producing fan art and fanfic and being on discords and running fanfiction challenges. They are real people, and nothing, abortion rights included, matters to them in this election except Palestine.
I think you misunderstood why I found it to be an absolutely bananas phrase.
It seems so. I should probably have held off replying until I'd taken a deep breath or five.
posted by tzikeh at 3:07 PM on August 24 [6 favorites]
That was my fault, not yours, tzikeh, and I appreciated your detailed and thoughtful response.
posted by Gadarene at 3:09 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
posted by Gadarene at 3:09 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
Gadarene: That was my fault, not yours, tzikeh, and I appreciated your detailed and thoughtful response.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. We disagree with each other, then, on this unbelievably heated subject, so I genuinely thank you for not having a go at me for my thoughts on the subject. It's near-constant abuse over there; I'm glad it's not nearly as much here.
posted by tzikeh at 3:15 PM on August 24 [6 favorites]
Sorry for the misunderstanding. We disagree with each other, then, on this unbelievably heated subject, so I genuinely thank you for not having a go at me for my thoughts on the subject. It's near-constant abuse over there; I'm glad it's not nearly as much here.
posted by tzikeh at 3:15 PM on August 24 [6 favorites]
Jayne Miller: "White women are the nation's largest voting demographic. Can Kamala Harris count on them? History says unlikely. Since 1950 majority of white women voted for a Dem presidential candidate just twice-- Lyndon Johnson and Bill Clinton. Not Obama. Not Hillary."
John John Williams IV: Will white women vote for Kamala Harris? History says it’s unlikely
posted by cashman at 3:15 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
John John Williams IV: Will white women vote for Kamala Harris? History says it’s unlikely
posted by cashman at 3:15 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
Sorry for the misunderstanding. We disagree with each other, then, on this unbelievably heated subject, so I genuinely thank you for not having a go at me for my thoughts on the subject. It's near-constant abuse over there; I'm glad it's not nearly as much here.
And I'm sorry you're having to deal with that over there. Ugh.
posted by Gadarene at 3:17 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
And I'm sorry you're having to deal with that over there. Ugh.
posted by Gadarene at 3:17 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
Respectfully, people who
get into the tall grass for Supernatural mpreg, for example, or producing fan art and fanfic and being on discords and running fanfiction challenges.
May be 18-25, but I'm not sure it makes sense to generalize from that to all women 18-25 (or, loosely, Gen Z) given the other very specific factors involved (extremely online, niche interests, etc).
Not trying to be fighty, really trying to align what you're observing with other data sources.
posted by Lenie Clarke at 3:41 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
get into the tall grass for Supernatural mpreg, for example, or producing fan art and fanfic and being on discords and running fanfiction challenges.
May be 18-25, but I'm not sure it makes sense to generalize from that to all women 18-25 (or, loosely, Gen Z) given the other very specific factors involved (extremely online, niche interests, etc).
Not trying to be fighty, really trying to align what you're observing with other data sources.
posted by Lenie Clarke at 3:41 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
Lenie Clarke: Not trying to be fighty
Not taking it as fighty at all. I was simply giving some examples of how I know they're not bots, not how I know how old they are. They all have bios posted on their Tumblr homepages with their age or age-range included, and their day-to-day small postings are about college/grad school or dealing with everything that comes with being in their 20s, and the myriad Tumblr polls that get real traction (tens of thousands of voters) about age range or things that indicate age range are all overwhelmingly middle-to-older Gen Z and the youngest Millennials.
There is nothing I would like more than to be proven 100% wrong, but that's my social media home, and those are the people who live in my neighborhood.
posted by tzikeh at 4:26 PM on August 24 [2 favorites]
Not taking it as fighty at all. I was simply giving some examples of how I know they're not bots, not how I know how old they are. They all have bios posted on their Tumblr homepages with their age or age-range included, and their day-to-day small postings are about college/grad school or dealing with everything that comes with being in their 20s, and the myriad Tumblr polls that get real traction (tens of thousands of voters) about age range or things that indicate age range are all overwhelmingly middle-to-older Gen Z and the youngest Millennials.
There is nothing I would like more than to be proven 100% wrong, but that's my social media home, and those are the people who live in my neighborhood.
posted by tzikeh at 4:26 PM on August 24 [2 favorites]
Given the choice between voting for Harris, or Trump, (as an old white cis male with LGTBQ+ children, or even just my FAB gay/nonbiary kids), how could you not want to vote for Harris?
All those GOP white ladies should understand what the implications are for their female children. Maybe they are OK with that. I think moth EDIT: moth/mothe? Mothers get what it means for their kids. Hope so.
LFG.
posted by Windopaene at 4:36 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
All those GOP white ladies should understand what the implications are for their female children. Maybe they are OK with that. I think moth EDIT: moth/mothe? Mothers get what it means for their kids. Hope so.
LFG.
posted by Windopaene at 4:36 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure Tumblr users are the best representation of what US women age 18-25 are thinking about the election. The number of women on TikTok and Instagram in that demo likely exceeds the total number of Tumblr users, period.
Based on data and anecdata, many more women in this demographic care about Dobbs and other issues than they do the I/P situation.
posted by Kibbutz at 4:58 PM on August 24 [9 favorites]
Based on data and anecdata, many more women in this demographic care about Dobbs and other issues than they do the I/P situation.
posted by Kibbutz at 4:58 PM on August 24 [9 favorites]
Are we relying on a less dependable voting bloc to come through for us again?
posted by Selena777 at 5:08 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 5:08 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
I am on Tumblr as one of my primary social sites, and my experience is very different. I am seeing way, way, WAY more pro-Israel stuff (like, a lot), a little of the “don’t vote” stuff and a lot of “do you guys remember the psyops of 2016 and 2020?” I also have zero connection to the Supernatural fandom (well, as zero as it can be if you are on Tumblr). This is not to say that tzikeh is not seeing what they have reported, but I would be cautious about assuming that Tumblr is a monolith. (I have also stumbled into pro-Trump areas of Tumblr — it is definitely a social media platform of “neighborhoods,” if you will.)
posted by rednikki at 5:20 PM on August 24 [8 favorites]
posted by rednikki at 5:20 PM on August 24 [8 favorites]
This discussion is making me wish that I had something to report from my old Livejournal account.
posted by clawsoon at 5:26 PM on August 24 [14 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 5:26 PM on August 24 [14 favorites]
Hey, cashman's electoral-vote info references the 2020 census; these electoral-college shifts reflect results released in April 2021. The 2020 census had big undercounts of Black people, Latinos and Native Americans (NPR March 2022), per this Census bureau report; "Latinos — with a net undercount rate of 4.99% — were left out of the 2020 census at more than three times the rate of a decade earlier."
A couple of months later, from Pew Research: "The latest research, released in May 2022, found that the 2020 census overcounted household populations in eight states while undercounting household populations in six others. The states with overcounts were Delaware, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Rhode Island and Utah. Those with undercounts were Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, Mississippi, Tennessee and Texas."
This census had several issues, some of which were identified years earlier. The pandemic led to further complications. April 1, 2024, from the U.S. Government Accountability Office: The 2020 Census was conducted during the COVID-19 pandemic, so the Census Bureau had to revise some of its data collection activities. This may have led to some unexpected census results. State, local, and tribal governments can challenge some of those results...
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:02 PM on August 24 [13 favorites]
A couple of months later, from Pew Research: "The latest research, released in May 2022, found that the 2020 census overcounted household populations in eight states while undercounting household populations in six others. The states with overcounts were Delaware, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Rhode Island and Utah. Those with undercounts were Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, Mississippi, Tennessee and Texas."
This census had several issues, some of which were identified years earlier. The pandemic led to further complications. April 1, 2024, from the U.S. Government Accountability Office: The 2020 Census was conducted during the COVID-19 pandemic, so the Census Bureau had to revise some of its data collection activities. This may have led to some unexpected census results. State, local, and tribal governments can challenge some of those results...
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:02 PM on August 24 [13 favorites]
Also, phillip-random's "300k dead" figure links to a combined tally of Iraq's "violent deaths following the 2003 invasion" through July 2024; combatant deaths (2003-2013) + civilian deaths from violence (2003-2017, and "preliminary data" from early 2017 to 2024), via "iraqbodycount.org".
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:03 PM on August 24 [6 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:03 PM on August 24 [6 favorites]
Thank you Iris Gambol! I'm from the "it's about the links!" days on MeFi, so thank you!
There is so much going on with regard to structural things about the election, and it's really important to not lose sight of all that has gone on, is currently going on, and will be going on. From the voter data thing in Georgia, to closing DMVs in the south to make it hard to even register in the first place, to other states just sweeping people off the rolls under clearly false pretenses, please lets not stop sharing links about all the underhanded ways people are using to try to keep others from being able to vote at all.
Check your voter registration asap & help your family and friends check theirs.
posted by cashman at 6:33 PM on August 24 [8 favorites]
There is so much going on with regard to structural things about the election, and it's really important to not lose sight of all that has gone on, is currently going on, and will be going on. From the voter data thing in Georgia, to closing DMVs in the south to make it hard to even register in the first place, to other states just sweeping people off the rolls under clearly false pretenses, please lets not stop sharing links about all the underhanded ways people are using to try to keep others from being able to vote at all.
Check your voter registration asap & help your family and friends check theirs.
posted by cashman at 6:33 PM on August 24 [8 favorites]
Seconding the thanks to Iris Gambol. When a batch of relevant and well-researched links appear in a thread, I think before even looking at the poster that it must be Iris Gambol.
posted by mollweide at 6:40 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
posted by mollweide at 6:40 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
I have no power over that decision. Harris and her campaign do.
Right. You control your vote. Your vote is a tactical decision that either helps Harris get elected or Trump getting elected. That more true for some than others but that what it comes down to. Your actions, whether it's voting for Trump, Harris, RFK, writing in your spouse, whatever has some tiny bit of influence on whether Harris or Trump wins the election.
Do you prefer Harris or Trump? Vote or don't but your actions influence the outcome regardless and the outcome of the election affects everyone. Threatening not to vote for Harris isn't a threat to her alone, it's a threat to your friends, family, and neighbors. Trump is a threat to everyone including Palestinians.
posted by VTX at 7:46 PM on August 24 [9 favorites]
Right. You control your vote. Your vote is a tactical decision that either helps Harris get elected or Trump getting elected. That more true for some than others but that what it comes down to. Your actions, whether it's voting for Trump, Harris, RFK, writing in your spouse, whatever has some tiny bit of influence on whether Harris or Trump wins the election.
Do you prefer Harris or Trump? Vote or don't but your actions influence the outcome regardless and the outcome of the election affects everyone. Threatening not to vote for Harris isn't a threat to her alone, it's a threat to your friends, family, and neighbors. Trump is a threat to everyone including Palestinians.
posted by VTX at 7:46 PM on August 24 [9 favorites]
So what do you all attribute this to, when you see stark numbers about how there have been tons more republican voter registrations in states like Florida and Pennsylvania?
The article chalks some of it up to "cleanups" but doesn't have anything close to an explanation about why the disparity is so stark. When it was being discussed a few weeks ago I saw speculation that maybe it was folks registering as a republican so they didn't get removed from the rolls. Aside from the dystopic implications there, that just seems generally far fetched that it would be in any kind of numbers like the ones they report.
posted by cashman at 8:10 PM on August 24
The article chalks some of it up to "cleanups" but doesn't have anything close to an explanation about why the disparity is so stark. When it was being discussed a few weeks ago I saw speculation that maybe it was folks registering as a republican so they didn't get removed from the rolls. Aside from the dystopic implications there, that just seems generally far fetched that it would be in any kind of numbers like the ones they report.
posted by cashman at 8:10 PM on August 24
There have been tons more Republican voter registrations - in July. Biden didn't drop out until July 21st. The Trump-Biden debate was at the end of June. Most of the new enthusiasm for Kamala Harris's candidacy dates from the very end of July at the earliest, but didn't really pick up until August.
So I suspect that the July numbers reflect a very real enthusiasm gap that was present for most of July, and if Harris's candidacy convinced anyone to get registered they probably got registered in August (or will get registered in September or October - many people registering to vote are college students who might choose to wait to register until they're back at college.)
posted by Jeanne at 8:28 PM on August 24 [10 favorites]
So I suspect that the July numbers reflect a very real enthusiasm gap that was present for most of July, and if Harris's candidacy convinced anyone to get registered they probably got registered in August (or will get registered in September or October - many people registering to vote are college students who might choose to wait to register until they're back at college.)
posted by Jeanne at 8:28 PM on August 24 [10 favorites]
rednikki: I also have zero connection to the Supernatural fandom (well, as zero as it can be if you are on Tumblr). This is not to say that tzikeh is not seeing what they have reported
Oh God please do not assume from my statement that I am in the Supernatural fandom
posted by tzikeh at 8:51 PM on August 24 [6 favorites]
Oh God please do not assume from my statement that I am in the Supernatural fandom
posted by tzikeh at 8:51 PM on August 24 [6 favorites]
I have a relative who's part of the Supernatural fandom. Should I be worried?
posted by clawsoon at 9:15 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 9:15 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
Do you prefer Harris or Trump? Vote or don't but your actions influence the outcome regardless and the outcome of the election affects everyone. Threatening not to vote for Harris isn't a threat to her alone, it's a threat to your friends, family, and neighbors. Trump is a threat to everyone including Palestinians.
I am going to vote for Harris. My point isn't that Palestinian Americans and their allies shouldn't vote for Harris regardless of her policy on arming Israel. It is that many won't.
No, it isn't rational, but if you want to get people to the "plague on both your houses" level of outrage and despair, you could hardly do better than to kill their family or the families of their friends who they get to see mourn, and then turn around and ask for their vote.
The convention presented an opportunity for Harris to show support and solidarity with Palestinians, or even set a policy of not actively arming their killers so they can keep murdering them. That didn't happen and it didn't go unnoticed.
I hope Harris moves on this issue, because it is the right thing to do and hundreds of thousands of human lives hang in the balance, but also because I think the campaign has underestimated how badly they need the Arab American vote in Michigan.
Oh God please do not assume from my statement that I am in the Supernatural fandom
Most offensive assumption in the thread so far.
posted by pattern juggler at 9:18 PM on August 24 [11 favorites]
I am going to vote for Harris. My point isn't that Palestinian Americans and their allies shouldn't vote for Harris regardless of her policy on arming Israel. It is that many won't.
No, it isn't rational, but if you want to get people to the "plague on both your houses" level of outrage and despair, you could hardly do better than to kill their family or the families of their friends who they get to see mourn, and then turn around and ask for their vote.
The convention presented an opportunity for Harris to show support and solidarity with Palestinians, or even set a policy of not actively arming their killers so they can keep murdering them. That didn't happen and it didn't go unnoticed.
I hope Harris moves on this issue, because it is the right thing to do and hundreds of thousands of human lives hang in the balance, but also because I think the campaign has underestimated how badly they need the Arab American vote in Michigan.
Oh God please do not assume from my statement that I am in the Supernatural fandom
Most offensive assumption in the thread so far.
posted by pattern juggler at 9:18 PM on August 24 [11 favorites]
I have a relative who's part of the Supernatural fandom. Should I be worried?
current cultural references removed, I imagine this is the kind of thing regular folks were worried about way back when in Biblical Palestine, and Nero's Rome for that matter.
posted by philip-random at 9:24 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
current cultural references removed, I imagine this is the kind of thing regular folks were worried about way back when in Biblical Palestine, and Nero's Rome for that matter.
posted by philip-random at 9:24 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
I've left Tumblr as a daily hangout since the AI and monetisation announcement but I do dip back in every so often. It does depend on who you follow, but when the bubbles bump into each other, it's fiery. The way I break it down by observation is that if the account is a consistent anti-imperialist poster, they're more likely to reblog tankie material (by accident usually - BUT if their bubble has a lot of global south, that gets pushback - something similar is happening on twt with Indonesians heckling accounts with talking points that their protest is a CIA plot). They would consider genocide a redline. The more normatively liberal tends to have a more electoral viewpoint - unfortunately it doesn't take long in the reblogs to see if they're "progressive except Palestine" or not (eg more strident and sympathetic when it comes to sharing takes about institutional transphobia but suddenly a cynical realist when it's genocide by an ally as opposed to when by China).
The most relevant set of anecdotes for this tangent is what went on in Top Gun Maverick fandom, a fandom hilarious for the fact that it has so many non-Americans and skews young, as related to me by a friend who's still on Tumblr. Consequently you'd think it's got a lot of "respect the army" energy and a lot of "self-defence as a military strategy across the border is legitimate", but the amount of pushback.... Heh.
posted by cendawanita at 9:26 PM on August 24 [7 favorites]
The most relevant set of anecdotes for this tangent is what went on in Top Gun Maverick fandom, a fandom hilarious for the fact that it has so many non-Americans and skews young, as related to me by a friend who's still on Tumblr. Consequently you'd think it's got a lot of "respect the army" energy and a lot of "self-defence as a military strategy across the border is legitimate", but the amount of pushback.... Heh.
posted by cendawanita at 9:26 PM on August 24 [7 favorites]
(New news: per my sharing in the US response thread there's now a massive wavev(with little public reporting State-side) of airstrikes by Israel as well as Hezbollah in Lebanon - I don't think Joe wants Kamala to win.)
posted by cendawanita at 10:45 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 10:45 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
Bonjour! Colleagues in Paris are chatting this bright Sunday morning about whether or how far, following the arrest of Pavel Durov, French intelligence has gotten into the Telegram data trove oh Chadbourn has a vague post about it from last night. It would be ... interesting ... if comms between TFG and certain *cough* Moscow *cough* regimes were found.
Utterly unrelated question. If, hypothetically, you lived in a compound in Florida, where is the nearest country which does not have an extradition treaty with the USA?
(daydreams delicious scenario where TFG is led away in cuffs and Hillary posts a picture of this with the message "But his telegram messages")
(I should probably do an FPP on this but I've already got tomorrow's Free Thread loaded into the New Post chamber)
posted by Wordshore at 12:51 AM on August 25 [6 favorites]
Utterly unrelated question. If, hypothetically, you lived in a compound in Florida, where is the nearest country which does not have an extradition treaty with the USA?
(daydreams delicious scenario where TFG is led away in cuffs and Hillary posts a picture of this with the message "But his telegram messages")
(I should probably do an FPP on this but I've already got tomorrow's Free Thread loaded into the New Post chamber)
posted by Wordshore at 12:51 AM on August 25 [6 favorites]
Colleagues in Paris are chatting this bright Sunday morning about whether or how far, following the arrest of Pavel Durov, French intelligence has gotten into the Telegram data trove oh Chadbourn has a vague post about it from last night. It would be ... interesting ... if comms between TFG and certain *cough* Moscow *cough* regimes were found.
I'm a bit brain-dead after a first week at a new job - is there one more link I could request that would have a backup-intro to this situation? (I don't know what Telegram is, or how it connects to Trump.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:31 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
I'm a bit brain-dead after a first week at a new job - is there one more link I could request that would have a backup-intro to this situation? (I don't know what Telegram is, or how it connects to Trump.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:31 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
Telegram is a messaging app, like Signal. There's no direct connection to Trump, but it is heavily used in Russia, including by the military.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:59 AM on August 25
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 5:59 AM on August 25
Better summary here: https://texty.org.ua/articles/112347/eight-signsof-danger-telegram-one-russias-most-successful-projects/
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:18 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 6:18 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
(I made an FPP about Pavel Durov being arrested. I barely know what Telegram is, but when has that ever stopped me?)
posted by box at 8:37 AM on August 25 [4 favorites]
posted by box at 8:37 AM on August 25 [4 favorites]
Cendawanita, the Israeli strikes on Lebanon are all over my US news sources. It is the top story in the Boston Globe. That’s notable because international news rarely runs as the top headline unless there is a serious local angle to it.
posted by rednikki at 8:52 AM on August 25 [4 favorites]
posted by rednikki at 8:52 AM on August 25 [4 favorites]
That’s notable because international news rarely runs as the top headline unless there is a serious local angle to it
Sounds like war is coming.
posted by cendawanita at 8:54 AM on August 25 [5 favorites]
Sounds like war is coming.
posted by cendawanita at 8:54 AM on August 25 [5 favorites]
Biden really doesn't want Harris to win, eh.
posted by cendawanita at 9:03 AM on August 25 [2 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 9:03 AM on August 25 [2 favorites]
"Harris and Walz heading to Georgia as campaign seeks to build on convention momentum. The Democratic ticket will launch a bus tour in southern Georgia next week, as Harris and Walz are expected to tape their first interview together."
Earlier this month, Harris held the second rally of her presidential campaign in Atlanta; the campaign said it attracted more than 10,000 people.posted by cashman at 9:30 AM on August 25 [12 favorites]
It then launched a mobilization effort in the state and now touts nearly 400,000 volunteers, 174 staffers and 24 coordinated campaign offices sprawled across Georgia. The campaign refers to its ground game there as “the largest in-state operation of any democratic presidential campaign cycle ever in Georgia.”
I think Biden wants Harris to win.
posted by mazola at 9:30 AM on August 25 [27 favorites]
posted by mazola at 9:30 AM on August 25 [27 favorites]
"The Divine 9 is engaging with politics in whole new way for Harris. Elite Black fraternities and sororities are revitalizing voter outreach efforts and starting super PACs to support Harris."
By dollars, the funds some Divine Nine political groups are spending pale in comparison to other outside spending groups trying to influence elections. But their real power rests in sheer numbers: An estimated 2.5 million members who can mobilize an army of door-knocking and word-of-mouth operations to turn out voters in November. Divine Nine organizations issued a joint statement immediately upon Harris’ ascent to the top of the Democratic ticket, signaling they would collectively build a voter and education program they said would be “unprecedented.”posted by cashman at 9:33 AM on August 25 [25 favorites]
All nine presidents came to the United Center to watch Harris accept the nomination, sitting together in order of the year each organization was founded.
And in Wisconsin:
Since Harris took over the campaign for president a mere four weeks ago, more than 42,000 volunteers have signed up to help her secure reelection in Wisconsin, according to the Harris-Walz campaign. These volunteers have collectively made phone calls to or knocked on the doors of 600,000 Wisconsinites.
posted by Kibbutz at 10:08 AM on August 25 [9 favorites]
Since Harris took over the campaign for president a mere four weeks ago, more than 42,000 volunteers have signed up to help her secure reelection in Wisconsin, according to the Harris-Walz campaign. These volunteers have collectively made phone calls to or knocked on the doors of 600,000 Wisconsinites.
posted by Kibbutz at 10:08 AM on August 25 [9 favorites]
Biden really doesn't want Harris to win, eh.
Oh, come on.
Israel is a sovereign nation with a military not under the command of Joe Biden and a government that answers to the US only inasmuch as it serves Israeli (and in particular Netanyahu's) interest.
There's certainly no point in engaging directly with the suggestion that Biden would prefer Trump to Harris, and probably little in attempting to address the reasoning (to use a generous term) that seems to underlie this nonsense but: the US — and the present administration in particular — bears an enormous moral responsibility for supplying the Netanyahu government with the instruments of death and destruction. However, the failure to lay the blame for the employment of those tools where it belongs, on the Israeli government, is simply another form of US exceptionalism, one in which only it has agency. It's just as tiresome and wrong as the other species of that fallacy.
posted by multics at 11:25 AM on August 25 [45 favorites]
Oh, come on.
Israel is a sovereign nation with a military not under the command of Joe Biden and a government that answers to the US only inasmuch as it serves Israeli (and in particular Netanyahu's) interest.
There's certainly no point in engaging directly with the suggestion that Biden would prefer Trump to Harris, and probably little in attempting to address the reasoning (to use a generous term) that seems to underlie this nonsense but: the US — and the present administration in particular — bears an enormous moral responsibility for supplying the Netanyahu government with the instruments of death and destruction. However, the failure to lay the blame for the employment of those tools where it belongs, on the Israeli government, is simply another form of US exceptionalism, one in which only it has agency. It's just as tiresome and wrong as the other species of that fallacy.
posted by multics at 11:25 AM on August 25 [45 favorites]
They are doing too much and there has got to be something the US can do before… everyone over there starts fighting with our ally and we are dragged further in.
posted by Selena777 at 11:47 AM on August 25 [5 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 11:47 AM on August 25 [5 favorites]
The positive tests from DNC attendees are rolling in.
The "surprise" guest was COVID. (Dr. Lucky Tran on Mastodon)
posted by hydropsyche at 3:40 PM on August 25 [6 favorites]
The "surprise" guest was COVID. (Dr. Lucky Tran on Mastodon)
posted by hydropsyche at 3:40 PM on August 25 [6 favorites]
Where? I mean it was a mass gathering and Covid has been up in numerous states like California, Texas, Arkansas and others. Not on Mastodon but it looks like a single image of a test. Is there an article somewhere alleging some kind of super spreader event beyond what would be expected these days?
Anyway, I'm starting to get ads for this September 'debate' and I'm already annoyed. I hate that they're having it because they aren't having it. One person is likely going to be doing normal debating, while the other person is free to say just about anything. There's no real point to debating Trump because Trump can and will say that anybody who isn't a republican has been known to kill people if left unmonitored, and the media will be like "Investigating whether or not [Non-Republican Politician Name] murdered a single person or multiple people in the past 10 years".
Do we know who the moderators are set to be?
posted by cashman at 4:05 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
Anyway, I'm starting to get ads for this September 'debate' and I'm already annoyed. I hate that they're having it because they aren't having it. One person is likely going to be doing normal debating, while the other person is free to say just about anything. There's no real point to debating Trump because Trump can and will say that anybody who isn't a republican has been known to kill people if left unmonitored, and the media will be like "Investigating whether or not [Non-Republican Politician Name] murdered a single person or multiple people in the past 10 years".
Do we know who the moderators are set to be?
posted by cashman at 4:05 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
Linsey Davis and David Muir, both ABC anchors (Ballotpedia, also reported other places).
posted by box at 4:13 PM on August 25 [5 favorites]
posted by box at 4:13 PM on August 25 [5 favorites]
It's not a secret that COVID is very high across the entire US right now.
CDC COVID Dashboard
CDC COVID Wastewater State and Territory Trends
COVID-19 Current Wastewater Viral Activity Levels Map
Given how few masks we saw in the tv footage, it would be shocking if there weren't a lot of COVID cases after that.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:17 PM on August 25 [15 favorites]
CDC COVID Dashboard
CDC COVID Wastewater State and Territory Trends
COVID-19 Current Wastewater Viral Activity Levels Map
Given how few masks we saw in the tv footage, it would be shocking if there weren't a lot of COVID cases after that.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:17 PM on August 25 [15 favorites]
(Linsey Davis is a Black woman who does things like ask Trump advisors what they think of Harris calling him an 'unserious man,' ask Gretchen Whitmer what she makes of Trump visiting a town a month after a KKK rally, and, uh, interview Dapper Dan.
If Trump has an undeniably-bad debate performance, which I think is a strong possibility, she's going to be one of the people that right-wing media outlets blame.)
posted by box at 4:33 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
If Trump has an undeniably-bad debate performance, which I think is a strong possibility, she's going to be one of the people that right-wing media outlets blame.)
posted by box at 4:33 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
Sorry that framing you gave made it seem like there were a bunch of confirmed cases being discussed, but that isn't what's happening. Also not sure why you'd restate what I already said about Covid levels being high, in a reply.
Anyway, AP report just came out: "Israel-Hamas war ceasefire, hostage talks will continue after weekend meetings didn't resolve all gaps, US official says"
posted by cashman at 5:02 PM on August 25 [6 favorites]
Anyway, AP report just came out: "Israel-Hamas war ceasefire, hostage talks will continue after weekend meetings didn't resolve all gaps, US official says"
Updated 7:44 PM EDT, August 25, 2024Really hoping and praying that by some miracle, this gets done.
JERUSALEM (AP) — A round of high-level talks in Cairo meant to bring about a ceasefire and hostage deal to at least temporarily end the ten-month Israel-Hamas war in Gaza ended Sunday without a final agreement, a U.S. official said, but talks will continue at lower levels in the coming days in an effort to bridge remaining gaps.
The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the talks, said lower level “working teams” will remain in Cairo to meet with mediators the United States, Qatar, and Egypt in hopes to addressing remaining disagreements. The official called the recent conversations, which began Thursday in Cairo and continued through Sunday, as “constructive” and said all parties were working to “reach a final and implementable agreement.”
The talks included CIA director William Burns and David Barnea, the head of Israel’s Mossad intelligence agency. A Hamas delegation was briefed by Egyptian and Qatari mediators but did not directly take part in negotiations.
posted by cashman at 5:02 PM on August 25 [6 favorites]
Not if you're checking with the Israeli negotiators side (in the US response thread) - they've been on record. Another Politico article I shared had one western negotiator say that the process is dead, right now it's theatre. You can see it in the AP article with the non-presence of Hamas, the US is basically talking only with Israel. Ok, don't want to derail, that's it.
Re: COVID - I did see this tweet that had screenshots of a few posts showing positive results
posted by cendawanita at 5:20 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
Re: COVID - I did see this tweet that had screenshots of a few posts showing positive results
posted by cendawanita at 5:20 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
I learned that Smithsonian curators always attend political conventions - "At DNC convention, poking around for history that's worth saving" (WaPo gift link).
Three historians were dispatched to Chicago by the Smithsonian National Museum of American History, "to find items that could tell the story, a century from today, of the 2024 election."
Three historians were dispatched to Chicago by the Smithsonian National Museum of American History, "to find items that could tell the story, a century from today, of the 2024 election."
What kind of a story is the country writing about itself right now?posted by needled at 6:11 PM on August 25 [26 favorites]
The most interesting gem came from the Republican convention, he says.
“They were handing out those signs that everyone was waving, that said ‘Mass Deportations Now.’ Sometimes you get an object that you feel like articulates a view that in 100 years you might have really to prove existed. That one —” he widened his eyes “— that’s like, it’s almost like a line in the sand to preserve.”
Thanks for that info cendawanita. Hence the miracle comment.
Came in here because I ran across news that last week Lynda Carter put out a call to have a geeks and nerds for Harris Walz event.
A bunch of different hollywood folks are in, including LeVar Burton and Eric Kripke (Supernatural).
posted by cashman at 6:18 PM on August 25 [9 favorites]
Came in here because I ran across news that last week Lynda Carter put out a call to have a geeks and nerds for Harris Walz event.
A bunch of different hollywood folks are in, including LeVar Burton and Eric Kripke (Supernatural).
posted by cashman at 6:18 PM on August 25 [9 favorites]
Great imagery here, as KamalaWinsWithJoy is trending.
posted by cashman at 6:29 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
posted by cashman at 6:29 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
So here’s another way of looking at it. How much are you willing to accept in order to feel like you’re not compromising your morals on one issue?
Not specific to this comment but in general, I feel like people are missing that the worst crime humanity can inflict upon itself is just the price of doing politics for this party? And that magically, having crossed the second furthest line afield morally, none of the other policy priorities will become the cost of maintaining power, that a Harris administration would be closer to LBJ domestically than to what Kier Starmer is doing over in the UK?
Aside from the US actively engaging in ethnic cleansing itself, there is nothing worse! What is making people think that this is the last, dread, blood-soaked compromise and can I have some.
posted by Slackermagee at 7:38 PM on August 25 [9 favorites]
Not specific to this comment but in general, I feel like people are missing that the worst crime humanity can inflict upon itself is just the price of doing politics for this party? And that magically, having crossed the second furthest line afield morally, none of the other policy priorities will become the cost of maintaining power, that a Harris administration would be closer to LBJ domestically than to what Kier Starmer is doing over in the UK?
Aside from the US actively engaging in ethnic cleansing itself, there is nothing worse! What is making people think that this is the last, dread, blood-soaked compromise and can I have some.
posted by Slackermagee at 7:38 PM on August 25 [9 favorites]
No that's good info. No derail. I want the killing to stop.
Came in here because regardless of what TFG posted tonight (for those not clicking xitter links, he's sounding like he's hemming and hawing over whether or not he'll do it), he's not going to drop out of the ABC debate on September 10th. It's live TV with all the eyeballs. He has no rules. He cannot lose it, because he has no standard to meet. He can make up any lie, come up with any nonsense he wants, or just spend the thing making up nonsense for the media to run after that has 0 to do with actual policy. He can contradict himself from the past year, past month, past week or past 10 minutes, and nothing will happen, because he is the great white hope for people convinced that whiteness will die if he isn't elected. He is pond scum and he absolutely loves being on tv. He'll be there, ready to spew. He's just doing the whole reluctant white male hero thing that appears in so many films and tv.
posted by cashman at 8:00 PM on August 25 [10 favorites]
Came in here because regardless of what TFG posted tonight (for those not clicking xitter links, he's sounding like he's hemming and hawing over whether or not he'll do it), he's not going to drop out of the ABC debate on September 10th. It's live TV with all the eyeballs. He has no rules. He cannot lose it, because he has no standard to meet. He can make up any lie, come up with any nonsense he wants, or just spend the thing making up nonsense for the media to run after that has 0 to do with actual policy. He can contradict himself from the past year, past month, past week or past 10 minutes, and nothing will happen, because he is the great white hope for people convinced that whiteness will die if he isn't elected. He is pond scum and he absolutely loves being on tv. He'll be there, ready to spew. He's just doing the whole reluctant white male hero thing that appears in so many films and tv.
posted by cashman at 8:00 PM on August 25 [10 favorites]
Oh, that Smithsonian curator article! "The museum is also getting a kaffiyeh from an uncommitted delegate from Hawaii, a baseball hat that reads “White Dudes for Harris” that [curator Jon Grinspan] got from a guy at a bar in the arena, and a Kelly green sequined bucket hat from an Ohio delegate, Helen Sheehan. It was festooned all over with pins from different political campaigns, bequeathed to her by a friend who was a reporter for the Cleveland Plain Dealer and collected them in his travels. “Re-elect Stokes.” “Dukakis/Bentsen.” She added some of her own, from campaigns she’d worked on. “I AM ROE,” read a white one."
This is Sheehan's green hat, from this Illinois Public Media release quoting just a few of the thousands of DNC delegates; Sheehan: I’ve got multiple pins from various elections dating back to before I was born in 1957 and my favorite pin is the pin that says ‘I am Roe.’ I’ve worked on multiple campaigns throughout my lifetime and Roe v. Wade passed when I was in high school and it was probably one of the most important pieces of legislation in my lifetime.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:20 PM on August 25 [19 favorites]
This is Sheehan's green hat, from this Illinois Public Media release quoting just a few of the thousands of DNC delegates; Sheehan: I’ve got multiple pins from various elections dating back to before I was born in 1957 and my favorite pin is the pin that says ‘I am Roe.’ I’ve worked on multiple campaigns throughout my lifetime and Roe v. Wade passed when I was in high school and it was probably one of the most important pieces of legislation in my lifetime.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:20 PM on August 25 [19 favorites]
Aside from the US actively engaging in ethnic cleansing itself, there is nothing worse! What is making people think that this is the last, dread, blood-soaked compromise and can I have some.
I would like to know where and when you think it has been any different. Perhaps you aren't old enough to remember the tenth anniversary of the Rwandan Genocide being marked by a raft of public 'never again' mea culpas while the genocide in Darfur simultaneously raged on unchecked - that was the end of my personal naivete. Humans are flawed. Not all goals are achievable. There will never be a last compromise.
The saying is 'You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to desist from it'. To be more accurate, it should add that the work is impossible to complete. That is not one of your options. Chose your actions accordingly.
posted by bq at 12:26 PM on August 26 [12 favorites]
I would like to know where and when you think it has been any different. Perhaps you aren't old enough to remember the tenth anniversary of the Rwandan Genocide being marked by a raft of public 'never again' mea culpas while the genocide in Darfur simultaneously raged on unchecked - that was the end of my personal naivete. Humans are flawed. Not all goals are achievable. There will never be a last compromise.
The saying is 'You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to desist from it'. To be more accurate, it should add that the work is impossible to complete. That is not one of your options. Chose your actions accordingly.
posted by bq at 12:26 PM on August 26 [12 favorites]
Great imagery here, as KamalaWinsWithJoy is trending.The Great Wave of Kamalagawa, which can be seen amongst Hokusai's other works, such as Feminine Wave (1845), Tenmba Bridge (1834), and The Dream of the Football Coach's Wife (1814)
posted by i used to be someone else at 1:22 PM on August 26 [6 favorites]
I would like to know where and when you think it has been any different.
I think it's different when we're actively complicit? We deliver bombs, cash, and political cover on the international stage to say nothing of the two carrier groups sitting around making sure no other state throws hands with Israel while the cleansing of Gaza continues.
But again, what isn't on the table, what will this party not throw to the wolves to ensure the fash aren't elected? I mean, hell, the deportation numbers from the Biden admin, the border funding, ICE brutality, etc has just been humming along too. Can't upset that applecart of horrors, we might elect people who do more of it. So what price for victory in 2028?
posted by Slackermagee at 1:35 PM on August 26 [7 favorites]
I think it's different when we're actively complicit? We deliver bombs, cash, and political cover on the international stage to say nothing of the two carrier groups sitting around making sure no other state throws hands with Israel while the cleansing of Gaza continues.
But again, what isn't on the table, what will this party not throw to the wolves to ensure the fash aren't elected? I mean, hell, the deportation numbers from the Biden admin, the border funding, ICE brutality, etc has just been humming along too. Can't upset that applecart of horrors, we might elect people who do more of it. So what price for victory in 2028?
posted by Slackermagee at 1:35 PM on August 26 [7 favorites]
The people who run the Democratic Party aren't stupid.
They certainly aren't especially clever. The notion that people in power are usually competent is an appealing fiction. The Democrats managed to lose to Donald Trump in 2016. They nearly lost in 2020. They remained determined to run Biden despite his dismal performance in 2020 and horrifying debate appearance long after many other people had called for Biden to step aside.
Bad take, for a number of reasons.
In the comment of mine to which you were responding, I was talking about the DNC's choice of messaging at the convention.
The examples you responded with were:
"The Democrats managed to lose to Donald Trump in 2016."
The American public chose Trump over Clinton. Democratic primary voters chose Clinton over Sanders and other contenders. The DNC didn't do that... voters did.
"They nearly lost in 2020. They remained determined to run Biden despite his dismal performance in 2020..."
That's an incredibly nonserious way to say, "Biden beat Trump in 2020."
Which again should be credited to the Dem primary voters who chose Biden, and the general election voters who chose Biden... not the DNC.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:46 PM on August 26 [10 favorites]
They certainly aren't especially clever. The notion that people in power are usually competent is an appealing fiction. The Democrats managed to lose to Donald Trump in 2016. They nearly lost in 2020. They remained determined to run Biden despite his dismal performance in 2020 and horrifying debate appearance long after many other people had called for Biden to step aside.
Bad take, for a number of reasons.
In the comment of mine to which you were responding, I was talking about the DNC's choice of messaging at the convention.
The examples you responded with were:
"The Democrats managed to lose to Donald Trump in 2016."
The American public chose Trump over Clinton. Democratic primary voters chose Clinton over Sanders and other contenders. The DNC didn't do that... voters did.
"They nearly lost in 2020. They remained determined to run Biden despite his dismal performance in 2020..."
That's an incredibly nonserious way to say, "Biden beat Trump in 2020."
Which again should be credited to the Dem primary voters who chose Biden, and the general election voters who chose Biden... not the DNC.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 1:46 PM on August 26 [10 favorites]
But again, what isn't on the table, wh….
I don’t know and neither do you, rhetorical questions are just posturing. What action are you suggesting?
posted by bq at 1:51 PM on August 26 [2 favorites]
I don’t know and neither do you, rhetorical questions are just posturing. What action are you suggesting?
posted by bq at 1:51 PM on August 26 [2 favorites]
Operation Deliberate Force II
posted by Slackermagee at 2:00 PM on August 26
posted by Slackermagee at 2:00 PM on August 26
I know that many people are now on Arms Embargo as the thing to do but we have done far more for far less death.
posted by Slackermagee at 2:00 PM on August 26 [3 favorites]
posted by Slackermagee at 2:00 PM on August 26 [3 favorites]
https://www.wral.com/story/republican-party-leaders-seek-to-purge-225-000-nc-voters-ahead-of-2024-elections-citing-worries-dismissed-by-state-officials/21596034/
GOP at it again, about to get tons of voters taken off the rolls. If you have friends or family in NC, give them a heads up.
posted by cashman at 2:54 PM on August 26 [8 favorites]
GOP at it again, about to get tons of voters taken off the rolls. If you have friends or family in NC, give them a heads up.
posted by cashman at 2:54 PM on August 26 [8 favorites]
Thanks for that, cashman. The last 2 paragraphs are worth highlighting:
The Southern Coalition for Social Justice, a Durham-based civil rights group, criticized the recent lawsuits as a cynical ploy by Republicans to set the stage for Trump and other Republicans to try once against to overturn the results of the election if he loses. In a statement co-signed by local Hispanic and Asian political advocacy groups, they accused the Republican Party of "an insidious national effort to spread anti-immigrant conspiracy theories in the hopes of short-term political gain," which it said this lawsuit is only one small part of.
"The RNC is not filing these lawsuits because they think they will win; they are filing these lawsuits despite knowing they will lose," the groups wrote. "The RNC intends to use those losses to amplify baseless conspiracy theories about how the election is being stolen and the courts will not stop it. This lawsuit is part and parcel of that effort — designed to undermine confidence in North Carolina elections."
posted by mediareport at 3:59 PM on August 26 [14 favorites]
The Southern Coalition for Social Justice, a Durham-based civil rights group, criticized the recent lawsuits as a cynical ploy by Republicans to set the stage for Trump and other Republicans to try once against to overturn the results of the election if he loses. In a statement co-signed by local Hispanic and Asian political advocacy groups, they accused the Republican Party of "an insidious national effort to spread anti-immigrant conspiracy theories in the hopes of short-term political gain," which it said this lawsuit is only one small part of.
"The RNC is not filing these lawsuits because they think they will win; they are filing these lawsuits despite knowing they will lose," the groups wrote. "The RNC intends to use those losses to amplify baseless conspiracy theories about how the election is being stolen and the courts will not stop it. This lawsuit is part and parcel of that effort — designed to undermine confidence in North Carolina elections."
posted by mediareport at 3:59 PM on August 26 [14 favorites]
The American public chose Trump over Clinton.
Actually the American public chose Clinton over Trump, by 2.8 million more votes. The Electoral College chose Trump.
That's an incredibly nonserious way to say, "Biden beat Trump in 2020."
By 7 million more votes.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:24 PM on August 26 [20 favorites]
Actually the American public chose Clinton over Trump, by 2.8 million more votes. The Electoral College chose Trump.
That's an incredibly nonserious way to say, "Biden beat Trump in 2020."
By 7 million more votes.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:24 PM on August 26 [20 favorites]
A lot of the "democrats suck at winning and are terrible at strategy" takes depend on the axiom that Trump is an extremely weak candidate who should be easy to beat. What if I told you that all the evidence points to that not being true? Sure, in any kind of decent world it would be true. Reader, I'm here to tell you we don't live in that world. He utterly bodied two Republican primary fields that included actual serious people (serious for Republicans anyway), won one presidential election, and lost a second one by a few tens of thousands of votes across 3-4 states.
Yes, his ceiling is lower than someone like Obama or even Biden. He's not going to get 54-55% of the vote under basically any circumstances. But his floor is higher because 46% of the country are terrible, and a high floor turns out to be a big advantage. Trump can basically do and say anything no matter how awful and still get 46%. So, yeah, I think Trump should be possibly the weakest candidate in modern political history... but he isn't. And that's got to do with the MAGA electorate and not Democrats not knowing what the heck they are doing.
posted by Justinian at 7:16 PM on August 26 [29 favorites]
Yes, his ceiling is lower than someone like Obama or even Biden. He's not going to get 54-55% of the vote under basically any circumstances. But his floor is higher because 46% of the country are terrible, and a high floor turns out to be a big advantage. Trump can basically do and say anything no matter how awful and still get 46%. So, yeah, I think Trump should be possibly the weakest candidate in modern political history... but he isn't. And that's got to do with the MAGA electorate and not Democrats not knowing what the heck they are doing.
posted by Justinian at 7:16 PM on August 26 [29 favorites]
But his floor is higher because 46% of the country are terrible
46% of the country that votes. It's important distinction.
posted by VTX at 7:20 PM on August 26 [14 favorites]
46% of the country that votes. It's important distinction.
posted by VTX at 7:20 PM on August 26 [14 favorites]
Republican Group Says Kamala Can't Be President Because This 170-Year-Old Supreme Court Decision Likens Her to a Slave
In video form.
posted by cashman at 7:53 PM on August 26 [2 favorites]
In video form.
posted by cashman at 7:53 PM on August 26 [2 favorites]
46% of the country that votes. It's important distinction.
Maybe, but given that Harris is doing significantly better with high propensity voters than low propensity voters I'm not sure the number isn't higher than 46% amongst people who don't vote.
posted by Justinian at 11:26 PM on August 26 [1 favorite]
Maybe, but given that Harris is doing significantly better with high propensity voters than low propensity voters I'm not sure the number isn't higher than 46% amongst people who don't vote.
posted by Justinian at 11:26 PM on August 26 [1 favorite]
The American public chose Trump over Clinton.
Actually the American public chose Clinton over Trump, by 2.8 million more votes. The Electoral College chose Trump.
That's an incredibly nonserious way to say, "Biden beat Trump in 2020."
By 7 million more votes.
I am once again asking for your support in counting the margins of the closest states to accurately represent how close we were to losing. Biden's margin of victory in the three states that put him over 270 (AZ, WI, and GA), where the race was closest, was less than 60,000 votes. Thinking you won by 7 million is like, ah I ran really fast up front in this marathon who cares that it was a photo finish at the line.
60,000! Less than 0.1% of the total votes cast for Biden decided the election. Not one percent, one tenth of a percent.
posted by Slackermagee at 5:00 AM on August 27 [10 favorites]
Republican Group Says Kamala Can't Be President Because This 170-Year-Old Supreme Court Decision Likens Her to a Slave
Pretty sure the current strategy is
throw everything against the wall because if we lose we're going to jail.
posted by Glinn at 6:54 AM on August 27 [15 favorites]
Pretty sure the current strategy is
throw everything against the wall because if we lose we're going to jail.
posted by Glinn at 6:54 AM on August 27 [15 favorites]
Jesus, I am nauseated just reading that slave comment.
posted by NorthernLite at 8:55 AM on August 27 [6 favorites]
posted by NorthernLite at 8:55 AM on August 27 [6 favorites]
On a (much) lighter note, please enjoy this brief interview with Tim Walz that includes impassioned remarks on both gutter maintenance and the Menards 11% rebate. I LOVE MY GOVERNOR.
posted by leftover_scrabble_rack at 9:16 AM on August 27 [20 favorites]
posted by leftover_scrabble_rack at 9:16 AM on August 27 [20 favorites]
the US — and the present administration in particular — bears an enormous moral responsibility for supplying the Netanyahu government with the instruments of death and destruction. However, the failure to lay the blame for the employment of those tools where it belongs, on the Israeli government, is simply another form of US exceptionalism, one in which only it has agency. It's just as tiresome and wrong as the other species of that fallacy.
Also, and maybe this is just me, but it also feels really goddamn performative.
posted by non canadian guy at 9:31 AM on August 27 [4 favorites]
Also, and maybe this is just me, but it also feels really goddamn performative.
posted by non canadian guy at 9:31 AM on August 27 [4 favorites]
If you wont refrain from handing someone a dangerous weapon, no strings attached, and then they invariably kill some one with it because not handing them the weapon would deny them agency I'm going to come down on the side of going ahead and denying them agency.
posted by Mitheral at 9:45 AM on August 27 [7 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 9:45 AM on August 27 [7 favorites]
If you wont refrain from handing someone a dangerous weapon, no strings attached, and then they invariably kill some one with it because not handing them the weapon would deny them agency I'm going to come down on the side of going ahead and denying them agency.
With this disingenuous mischaracterization of what I said, you're just implicitly repeating the lie that only the US has — and can grant — the power to act by suggesting that if it were to block arms sales to Israel, the Netanyahu government would be bereft of agency. There's nothing "invariable" about Israel's acts; they have the power to choose their path entirely independent of the US's decisions about arms sales. This is no small distinction; it implies that without an honest commitment to restraint on the part of the Netanyahu government, a halt to US arms sales would not end the killing even if it assuaged the US's moral culpability for its part in that killing.
Holding the US — and the Biden administration in particular — accountable for its role in this is a moral imperative; holding it solely responsible is dishonest.
posted by multics at 11:07 AM on August 27 [6 favorites]
With this disingenuous mischaracterization of what I said, you're just implicitly repeating the lie that only the US has — and can grant — the power to act by suggesting that if it were to block arms sales to Israel, the Netanyahu government would be bereft of agency. There's nothing "invariable" about Israel's acts; they have the power to choose their path entirely independent of the US's decisions about arms sales. This is no small distinction; it implies that without an honest commitment to restraint on the part of the Netanyahu government, a halt to US arms sales would not end the killing even if it assuaged the US's moral culpability for its part in that killing.
Holding the US — and the Biden administration in particular — accountable for its role in this is a moral imperative; holding it solely responsible is dishonest.
posted by multics at 11:07 AM on August 27 [6 favorites]
Holding the US — and the Biden administration in particular — accountable for its role in this is a moral imperative; holding it solely responsible is dishonest.
No one is saying Israel or Netanyahu isn't morally culpable. But this post is about the current US election cycle, not the genocide more generally. If you would like to see a lot of blame for Netanyahu, you should check those threads out.
But Netanyahu's guilt as a genocidal monster and the complicity of the Israeli state doesn't make Biden less culpable for arming him.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:41 AM on August 27 [6 favorites]
No one is saying Israel or Netanyahu isn't morally culpable. But this post is about the current US election cycle, not the genocide more generally. If you would like to see a lot of blame for Netanyahu, you should check those threads out.
But Netanyahu's guilt as a genocidal monster and the complicity of the Israeli state doesn't make Biden less culpable for arming him.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:41 AM on August 27 [6 favorites]
Yeah, a genocide isn't like a car accident; we don't divide up the fault and assign it by percentage. Either Israel or the US could stop Israel's genocide of Palestinians (because whether Israel likes to admit it or not, it is a US client state), hence Israel is 100% responsible and the US is also 100% responsible.
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:06 PM on August 27 [6 favorites]
posted by adrienneleigh at 12:06 PM on August 27 [6 favorites]
Kamala Harris discussing Justice Reform in 2019
posted by mumimor at 12:30 PM on August 27 [4 favorites]
posted by mumimor at 12:30 PM on August 27 [4 favorites]
Obama hails Harris, slams GOP election tactics in first post-DNC remarks
“Politics in America is and always has been, not simply a matter of rhetoric and joy and excitement. It is also nuts and bolts exercises of power,” Obama said. “If we elect Kamala, but we haven’t dealt with the nuts and bolts issues that NDRC is focused on, she will confront the same nonsense that I had to deal with, with (then Senate Majority Leader Mitch) McConnell and (former House Speaker John) Boehner.”posted by cashman at 3:22 PM on August 27 [6 favorites]
Democrats lost more than a thousand seats in state legislatures during Obama’s presidency, while also suffering a string of defeats at the gubernatorial level and in the US Congress, where Republicans won a 2010 House landslide before taking control of the Senate in 2014. The damage at the state level has been the most difficult for Democrats to unwind, in part due to gerrymandering by state GOP leaders.
“Underlying those efforts,” Obama said, “is obviously a longstanding philosophy that says there are certain people that aren’t real Americans, and so they really shouldn’t be represented anyway.”
Harris and Walz to sit with CNN for exclusive first joint interview since campaign began
The interview, conducted by CNN’s chief political correspondent and anchor Dana Bash, will air at 9 p.m. ET on Thursday. It occurs as the candidates embark on a bus tour through the battleground state of Georgia and marks the first time Harris has sat with a journalist for an in-depth, on-the-record conversation since President Joe Biden dropped his bid for a second term and endorsed her on July 21.posted by cashman at 3:24 PM on August 27 [8 favorites]
The 37 days since her candidacy began have generated a swell of enthusiasm and momentum for Harris
1050+ comments deep. Maybe a new thread could be done, centered around the CNN interview.
posted by cashman at 3:26 PM on August 27 [4 favorites]
posted by cashman at 3:26 PM on August 27 [4 favorites]
Some of these later links would make a nice new thread? [EDIT: JINX but not really you were first]
Probably not this one, but it is a nice roundup of recent events from The Liberal Redneck on YouTube
posted by Glinn at 3:27 PM on August 27 [3 favorites]
Probably not this one, but it is a nice roundup of recent events from The Liberal Redneck on YouTube
posted by Glinn at 3:27 PM on August 27 [3 favorites]
The Swifties for Kamala Kickoff call is going on right now. Kirsten Gillibrand said there are 20,000 people on the call. Carole King was just on and she gave a primer on knocking on doors and talking to voters that was really really good.
posted by cashman at 4:44 PM on August 27 [14 favorites]
posted by cashman at 4:44 PM on August 27 [14 favorites]
Swifties call raised over $100,000, which at any other time would sound amazing but honestly feels low compared to the numbers other group calls were getting. I wonder if they had lower attendance overall, or lower disposable income among participants, or something else entirely?
posted by oc-to-po-des at 7:46 PM on August 27 [1 favorite]
posted by oc-to-po-des at 7:46 PM on August 27 [1 favorite]
I wonder if they had lower attendance overall, or lower disposable income among participants, or something else entirely?
I wouldn't be surprised if it's not a combination of lower disposable income, being new at being politically active, being in a new school year (whether late high school or college), and I would guess a few of them aren't eighteen years old yet (which is fine, they'll likely do voting postcards or help in other ways. Glad to have them engaged with the process.)
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 8:04 PM on August 27 [5 favorites]
I wouldn't be surprised if it's not a combination of lower disposable income, being new at being politically active, being in a new school year (whether late high school or college), and I would guess a few of them aren't eighteen years old yet (which is fine, they'll likely do voting postcards or help in other ways. Glad to have them engaged with the process.)
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 8:04 PM on August 27 [5 favorites]
It's now $138,000, raised from 4,751 contributors, with an average donation of $29.
Donation button labels:
$13
$19.89
$22
$89
Other
It's canny and earnest and Swift herself has no official affiliation with Swifties for Kamala, did not appear on the call, and has not publicly endorsed Harris this year.
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:16 PM on August 27 [10 favorites]
Donation button labels:
$13
$19.89
$22
$89
Other
It's canny and earnest and Swift herself has no official affiliation with Swifties for Kamala, did not appear on the call, and has not publicly endorsed Harris this year.
posted by Iris Gambol at 9:16 PM on August 27 [10 favorites]
Mod note: One removed, folks are encouraged to start a separate thread about new US politics issues.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 4:58 AM on August 28
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 4:58 AM on August 28
🍪🍪🥛
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:11 AM on August 29 [1 favorite]
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:11 AM on August 29 [1 favorite]
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posted by chainlinkspiral at 11:06 AM on August 18 [16 favorites]