Einstein on the Bleach
August 21, 2024 12:35 AM Subscribe
“I had gone to install a dishwasher in a loft in SoHo. While working, I suddenly heard a noise and looked up to find Robert Hughes, the art critic of Time magazine, staring at me in disbelief. ‘But you’re Philip Glass! What are you doing here?’ It was obvious that I was installing his dishwasher and I told him I would soon be finished. ‘But you are an artist,’ he protested. I explained that I was an artist but that I was sometimes a plumber as well and that he should go away and let me finish.” from The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass by Ted Gioia
Source: When less means more [Grauniad, 2001]
Source: When less means more [Grauniad, 2001]
Nowadays he’d probably be working for Uber.
posted by Phanx at 3:41 AM on August 21 [13 favorites]
posted by Phanx at 3:41 AM on August 21 [13 favorites]
A+ post title
posted by lalochezia at 3:42 AM on August 21 [16 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 3:42 AM on August 21 [16 favorites]
So many thoughts on this, I'll see if I can make some sense of them.
No one's born fully formed but running through this there seems to be a sense of surprise that Glass had mundane jobs outside of music but I'd reckon that would be the norm rather than the exception. It's a very lucky and very unusual person that can go to school, go to university and study music, or any other art, and then land a job in it; even if you do go and study music you're more likely to get a job as a roadie than a musician. At least at first, and probably forever.
I've worked the cultural and arts scene on and off my whole working life. I am not an artist at any level more than dabbling and I think I got into it because I like being around the people mostly, it certainly wasn't for the money, but that world is full of people who aren't in the right job, the job they want to be in. There's bass players working as carpenters, the fork driver who's in three or four metal bands, the visual artist building picture frames. I could go on. All those day jobs are based in the arts scene but they are definitely not what was aimed at. This is the water we swim in. (They are real examples too.)
Just imagine reading Siddhartha or The Glass Bead Game at a steel mill
This struck me as patronising, you have no idea what your plumber or your gardener or accountant gets up to on the weekend, steel mill workers have the same capacity for art and creativity as anyone else. I'm certain reading Siddhartha is not a mainstream activity in that context but don't rule anything out, someone there will be up to something on Saturday night that would blow your mind.
posted by deadwax at 3:56 AM on August 21 [78 favorites]
No one's born fully formed but running through this there seems to be a sense of surprise that Glass had mundane jobs outside of music but I'd reckon that would be the norm rather than the exception. It's a very lucky and very unusual person that can go to school, go to university and study music, or any other art, and then land a job in it; even if you do go and study music you're more likely to get a job as a roadie than a musician. At least at first, and probably forever.
I've worked the cultural and arts scene on and off my whole working life. I am not an artist at any level more than dabbling and I think I got into it because I like being around the people mostly, it certainly wasn't for the money, but that world is full of people who aren't in the right job, the job they want to be in. There's bass players working as carpenters, the fork driver who's in three or four metal bands, the visual artist building picture frames. I could go on. All those day jobs are based in the arts scene but they are definitely not what was aimed at. This is the water we swim in. (They are real examples too.)
Just imagine reading Siddhartha or The Glass Bead Game at a steel mill
This struck me as patronising, you have no idea what your plumber or your gardener or accountant gets up to on the weekend, steel mill workers have the same capacity for art and creativity as anyone else. I'm certain reading Siddhartha is not a mainstream activity in that context but don't rule anything out, someone there will be up to something on Saturday night that would blow your mind.
posted by deadwax at 3:56 AM on August 21 [78 favorites]
Oh yeah, mind slightly blown at just giving plumbing a go, Philip Glass or anyone else. I have no idea when that would have been a legal thing to do here, certainly no time recently.
posted by deadwax at 3:58 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
posted by deadwax at 3:58 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
Me, having friends over: Hear that? That dishwasher was installed by Philip Glass.
As a person who very much did not pursue my dreams professionally but has kept on in my interests as an avocation, and has worked a very wide range of jobs in and out of the trades over the course of my life, let me strongly echo deadwax regarding people's inner lives. People will surprise you.
As an aside regarding Glass, we were fortunate to have the chance to see the PNW Ballet perform One Thousand Pieces last season, and let me just say, there need to be more ballets in a minor key. Give the dancers some yearning and anguish to work with, not just more floaty pixie dust notes. It was really wonderful.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 4:16 AM on August 21 [18 favorites]
As a person who very much did not pursue my dreams professionally but has kept on in my interests as an avocation, and has worked a very wide range of jobs in and out of the trades over the course of my life, let me strongly echo deadwax regarding people's inner lives. People will surprise you.
As an aside regarding Glass, we were fortunate to have the chance to see the PNW Ballet perform One Thousand Pieces last season, and let me just say, there need to be more ballets in a minor key. Give the dancers some yearning and anguish to work with, not just more floaty pixie dust notes. It was really wonderful.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 4:16 AM on August 21 [18 favorites]
Refreshing to read about someone who achieved stuff without being able to live off Daddy. On the other hand, it puts a certain pressure on people like me who’ve done pretty ordinary jobs anll their lives and never done anything notable.
posted by Phanx at 4:25 AM on August 21 [17 favorites]
posted by Phanx at 4:25 AM on August 21 [17 favorites]
Just imagine reading Siddhartha or The Glass Bead Game at a steel mill
This struck me as patronising
very much so. the fpp link is one of those articles where the comments are worth reading.
i remember one job where a co-worker asked me for books. i gave her Dante's Inferno. she got so into it, she brought it out to the cash register. one customer made a comment she asked me about, basically "what are you doing reading that book?" f- him. and f capitalism.
posted by HearHere at 4:38 AM on August 21 [20 favorites]
This struck me as patronising
very much so. the fpp link is one of those articles where the comments are worth reading.
i remember one job where a co-worker asked me for books. i gave her Dante's Inferno. she got so into it, she brought it out to the cash register. one customer made a comment she asked me about, basically "what are you doing reading that book?" f- him. and f capitalism.
posted by HearHere at 4:38 AM on August 21 [20 favorites]
I'm certain reading Siddhartha is not a mainstream activity in that context but don't rule anything out, someone there will be up to something on Saturday night that would blow your mind.
There are obviously many examples, but the one that sticks in my head the most is James Hampton, a janitor by day who spent nights and weekends making ”The Throne of the Third Heaven of the Nations’ Millennium General Assembly”.
If you grew up in DC before 1990, you very likely went on field trips to the American Art Museum, and it’s highly likely it was the first work by a self-taught artist you saw. It blew my tiny mind and definitely helped open my eyes and heart up artistically.
posted by ryanshepard at 4:49 AM on August 21 [22 favorites]
There are obviously many examples, but the one that sticks in my head the most is James Hampton, a janitor by day who spent nights and weekends making ”The Throne of the Third Heaven of the Nations’ Millennium General Assembly”.
If you grew up in DC before 1990, you very likely went on field trips to the American Art Museum, and it’s highly likely it was the first work by a self-taught artist you saw. It blew my tiny mind and definitely helped open my eyes and heart up artistically.
posted by ryanshepard at 4:49 AM on August 21 [22 favorites]
When I teach intro in our library program I make an extra-special point of pointing out how letting preconceptions influence collection development is a Bad Wrong Thing.
The example I use is from a friend of mine, who early in her career did colldev at a public library in a non-wealthy, majority-Black-and-Latine area of a major city. The Nice (Racist AF) White Lady librarians wouldn't buy college-prep materials because "our patrons aren't the type to use those." My friend bought them anyway -- and they flew off the shelves.
If I have done nothing else in my library-education career, I hope I've prevented a few Nice Racist AF White Lady Librarians from coming into existence.
posted by humbug at 5:10 AM on August 21 [42 favorites]
The example I use is from a friend of mine, who early in her career did colldev at a public library in a non-wealthy, majority-Black-and-Latine area of a major city. The Nice (Racist AF) White Lady librarians wouldn't buy college-prep materials because "our patrons aren't the type to use those." My friend bought them anyway -- and they flew off the shelves.
If I have done nothing else in my library-education career, I hope I've prevented a few Nice Racist AF White Lady Librarians from coming into existence.
posted by humbug at 5:10 AM on August 21 [42 favorites]
There's a link to Wikipedia, but sort of surprised the article didn't just say that Chelsea Light Moving was Glass and Steve Reich (who also worked as a cabbie).
posted by Ayn Marx at 5:16 AM on August 21 [9 favorites]
posted by Ayn Marx at 5:16 AM on August 21 [9 favorites]
Cf also Eric Hoffer, longshoreman.
Curious to know some details about the plumbing gigs. That's a licensed trade in New York, and I expect it was then as well.
posted by BWA at 5:21 AM on August 21 [6 favorites]
Curious to know some details about the plumbing gigs. That's a licensed trade in New York, and I expect it was then as well.
posted by BWA at 5:21 AM on August 21 [6 favorites]
I had a facebook friend (we went to the same High School) who's a musician. He related the story of his band's manager saying, "you know, you could make more money if you toured." "Yeah," he replied, "but we all have day jobs." I also (somewhat) know people in local Celtic bands who pay the bills doing other things. Some of them have taken time off from work to tour Ireland as a band.
posted by Spike Glee at 6:04 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
posted by Spike Glee at 6:04 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
> Just imagine reading Siddhartha or The Glass Bead Game at a steel mill
This struck me as patronising
I took it more as "consider the contrast between the works in question and the environment in which they were experienced."
posted by donpardo at 6:27 AM on August 21 [11 favorites]
This struck me as patronising
I took it more as "consider the contrast between the works in question and the environment in which they were experienced."
posted by donpardo at 6:27 AM on August 21 [11 favorites]
I went to school for music composition. Once I graduated I worked at a couple of hip hop studios and a Caribbean studio. Highlights of that time were playing keys on a Big Pun track and helping to record a Mighty Sparrow album. But there wasn't very much money it it, at all, and I was living at home in suburban Long Island and slowly becoming an alcoholic townie. So when the dot com boom happened and I was given the opportunity to move to San Francisco, I took it and did not look back.
I didn't give up my artistic aspirations - I was in bands, I put out an EP, I scored a film. Then in 2009 I decided I was going to Go For It. I quit my job and released my debut full-length album, replete with a 2 week self-financed tour of the West Coast. The tour was fun, sparsely attended and extremely expensive. After that I wrote another album under a different moniker, released it online, and then started touring with a musician that already had an established fan base. From 2010-2011 I was touring regularly with him and another, more popular band. I could have turned that into a full-time career, but one of the things about touring is that it completely disconnects you from your community and also whatever romantic relationship you may have, if that person isn't also on tour with you or isn't a fan of you being gone for very long stretches of time. I weighed what was most important to me and decided that I wanted community and emotional stability more than the road.
So I switched over to writing music for TV. Those little 60-second doojabs that there are like 1000 of in every episode of Keeping Up With The Kardashians etc. I got pretty good at it - at my peak I could churn out 3 cues a day, at about 3 hours per cue from blank page to finished product. And the people I sent them to loved them - I even got a cash bonus one year, which was shocking since I was letting them use the cues for free in exchange for all of the royalties. There was another company I was involved with which paid me a low flat rate for cues, leaving me with around 7.25% of the royalties, and of course that company got one of my tracks placed as the intro to Late Night With Carson Daly.
All of this took a lot of time, and though it was rewarding to start seeing ASCAP royalties in the thousands of dollars on a quarterly basis, it was not enough to live on. I had been doing 3-6 month stints as a web contractor to keep myself afloat, and the company I was contracting with was starting to get squirrelly about continuing to hire me for such short periods. I got married in 2013 and decided that I wanted to someday have a house. So I went full time with the web stuff and since then my music career has been relegated to occasional festival and convention gigs with the guy I previously toured with. These have become less frequent over time as we all get older. I keep thinking that I should put out another album or something - I know my soul would appreciate it - but these days leading my running club and just spending time with my wife are what occupy my time. Well, that and dealing with a long string of parental deaths. And, of course, doing my day job, which is software stuff that I actually like quite a lot.
I went through a long period where my inability to break out as an artist in my own right weighed on me. I had labored under the assumption since I was maybe 12 that I was going to be a Famous Rock Star. That is a really hard belief to unwind, particularly when it has been core to your identity.
So when I read about Phillip Glass having the tenacity to keep at it until things took off when he was 42, taking odd jobs and just believing in himself without wavering (which I'm sure he did waver at times, but that didn't stop him), I am impressed and a little bit envious. I'm certain there are choices I could have made which would have given my life a different outcome, more centered on music. Would I be happier? Who knows. I kind of doubt it. I also don't really believe in free will, so it isn't something I dwell on. But the journeys that the majority of artists take are circuitous and few of them end up where they expected to be.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:27 AM on August 21 [85 favorites]
I didn't give up my artistic aspirations - I was in bands, I put out an EP, I scored a film. Then in 2009 I decided I was going to Go For It. I quit my job and released my debut full-length album, replete with a 2 week self-financed tour of the West Coast. The tour was fun, sparsely attended and extremely expensive. After that I wrote another album under a different moniker, released it online, and then started touring with a musician that already had an established fan base. From 2010-2011 I was touring regularly with him and another, more popular band. I could have turned that into a full-time career, but one of the things about touring is that it completely disconnects you from your community and also whatever romantic relationship you may have, if that person isn't also on tour with you or isn't a fan of you being gone for very long stretches of time. I weighed what was most important to me and decided that I wanted community and emotional stability more than the road.
So I switched over to writing music for TV. Those little 60-second doojabs that there are like 1000 of in every episode of Keeping Up With The Kardashians etc. I got pretty good at it - at my peak I could churn out 3 cues a day, at about 3 hours per cue from blank page to finished product. And the people I sent them to loved them - I even got a cash bonus one year, which was shocking since I was letting them use the cues for free in exchange for all of the royalties. There was another company I was involved with which paid me a low flat rate for cues, leaving me with around 7.25% of the royalties, and of course that company got one of my tracks placed as the intro to Late Night With Carson Daly.
All of this took a lot of time, and though it was rewarding to start seeing ASCAP royalties in the thousands of dollars on a quarterly basis, it was not enough to live on. I had been doing 3-6 month stints as a web contractor to keep myself afloat, and the company I was contracting with was starting to get squirrelly about continuing to hire me for such short periods. I got married in 2013 and decided that I wanted to someday have a house. So I went full time with the web stuff and since then my music career has been relegated to occasional festival and convention gigs with the guy I previously toured with. These have become less frequent over time as we all get older. I keep thinking that I should put out another album or something - I know my soul would appreciate it - but these days leading my running club and just spending time with my wife are what occupy my time. Well, that and dealing with a long string of parental deaths. And, of course, doing my day job, which is software stuff that I actually like quite a lot.
I went through a long period where my inability to break out as an artist in my own right weighed on me. I had labored under the assumption since I was maybe 12 that I was going to be a Famous Rock Star. That is a really hard belief to unwind, particularly when it has been core to your identity.
So when I read about Phillip Glass having the tenacity to keep at it until things took off when he was 42, taking odd jobs and just believing in himself without wavering (which I'm sure he did waver at times, but that didn't stop him), I am impressed and a little bit envious. I'm certain there are choices I could have made which would have given my life a different outcome, more centered on music. Would I be happier? Who knows. I kind of doubt it. I also don't really believe in free will, so it isn't something I dwell on. But the journeys that the majority of artists take are circuitous and few of them end up where they expected to be.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:27 AM on August 21 [85 favorites]
Gioia is an interesting person and a good writer. Please don't fixate on one sentence of his about reading Hesse in a steel mill. I mean, it's your choice, and this is Metafilter, but try not to be reflexively judgmental.
posted by SoberHighland at 6:40 AM on August 21 [13 favorites]
posted by SoberHighland at 6:40 AM on August 21 [13 favorites]
I noped out here: “ I never complained. This was just reality. You pay as you go. And I was glad to have a paycheck.”
Really? You never complained? This was just reality? You are talking about the economy like it’s the weather instead of a system of policies, deliberately crafted by people, to literally give away a bountiful, carefree living to some people and to force everyone else into chains.
Maybe I’ll try to read again later but I can’t stand this attitude.
posted by toodleydoodley at 6:55 AM on August 21 [1 favorite]
Really? You never complained? This was just reality? You are talking about the economy like it’s the weather instead of a system of policies, deliberately crafted by people, to literally give away a bountiful, carefree living to some people and to force everyone else into chains.
Maybe I’ll try to read again later but I can’t stand this attitude.
posted by toodleydoodley at 6:55 AM on August 21 [1 favorite]
The Nice (Racist AF) White Lady librarians wouldn't buy college-prep materials because "our patrons aren't the type to use those." My friend bought them anyway -- and they flew off the shelves.
I volunteered (teaching basic computer literacy) at a library in a poor area of DC. The librarian gave me a tour and pointed out the shelves full of test prep books - GED, police test, college prep, etc. "People come here to improve themselves." I think about that phrasing a lot. Those of us who have completed our formal education and have succeeded reasonably well professionally also go to the library (or bookstore) to get books to "improve ourselves," yet we generally don't describe it in those terms.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 7:02 AM on August 21 [16 favorites]
I volunteered (teaching basic computer literacy) at a library in a poor area of DC. The librarian gave me a tour and pointed out the shelves full of test prep books - GED, police test, college prep, etc. "People come here to improve themselves." I think about that phrasing a lot. Those of us who have completed our formal education and have succeeded reasonably well professionally also go to the library (or bookstore) to get books to "improve ourselves," yet we generally don't describe it in those terms.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 7:02 AM on August 21 [16 favorites]
Hoodlums read Nietzsche [The Guard 1m YT]
posted by BobTheScientist at 7:07 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
posted by BobTheScientist at 7:07 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
This struck me as patronising, you have no idea what your plumber or your gardener or accountant gets up to on the weekend, steel mill workers have the same capacity for art and creativity as anyone else.d.
Just another take - I took it more as being impressed that Glass was able to absorb fairly intellectual books in a workplace that was likely very noisy and distracting, and likely while physically exhausted, not a comment on the cultural pursuits of typical steel mill workers.
I know several blue collar workers who enjoy high brow art and culture, I wouldn't be surprised if several of his colleagues at the mill had Hesse in their bookshelves at home, but perhaps no others were reading Hesse during breaks.
posted by sid at 7:29 AM on August 21 [11 favorites]
Just another take - I took it more as being impressed that Glass was able to absorb fairly intellectual books in a workplace that was likely very noisy and distracting, and likely while physically exhausted, not a comment on the cultural pursuits of typical steel mill workers.
I know several blue collar workers who enjoy high brow art and culture, I wouldn't be surprised if several of his colleagues at the mill had Hesse in their bookshelves at home, but perhaps no others were reading Hesse during breaks.
posted by sid at 7:29 AM on August 21 [11 favorites]
Glass's memoir is worth a read if you'd like to know more, including a detailed description of what it's like to study with Nadia Boulanger, which is fascinating.
Calling your moving company "Prime Mover" is hilarious.
posted by ovvl at 7:33 AM on August 21 [11 favorites]
Calling your moving company "Prime Mover" is hilarious.
posted by ovvl at 7:33 AM on August 21 [11 favorites]
I noped out here: “ I never complained. This was just reality. You pay as you go. And I was glad to have a paycheck.”
Really? You never complained? This was just reality? You are talking about the economy like it’s the weather instead of a system of policies, deliberately crafted by people, to literally give away a bountiful, carefree living to some people and to force everyone else into chains.
What he's saying is that, absent a trust fund or some other enormous financial cushion, artists have to make a living somehow as they make their art, because artists are essentially entrepreneurs with a typically very-low-to-no-demand product. That's just true, and maybe he is exaggerating when he says he never complained, but it doesn't strain credulity to believe that he accepted this fact of life rather than railing against it.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:39 AM on August 21 [18 favorites]
Really? You never complained? This was just reality? You are talking about the economy like it’s the weather instead of a system of policies, deliberately crafted by people, to literally give away a bountiful, carefree living to some people and to force everyone else into chains.
What he's saying is that, absent a trust fund or some other enormous financial cushion, artists have to make a living somehow as they make their art, because artists are essentially entrepreneurs with a typically very-low-to-no-demand product. That's just true, and maybe he is exaggerating when he says he never complained, but it doesn't strain credulity to believe that he accepted this fact of life rather than railing against it.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:39 AM on August 21 [18 favorites]
Charles Ives, an earlier American composer who pioneered a lot of the techniques of 20th century avant-garde/experimental music, was a big time insurance guy in New York City. But he still had time to create four symphonies, a bunch of other orchestral and instrumental music, and loads of songs. But his compositions were not of the norm, and many were not performed until after he died. Now he’s heralded as being a great American composer. He was, but we had to learn how to listen to him.
posted by njohnson23 at 7:54 AM on August 21 [13 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 7:54 AM on August 21 [13 favorites]
An art museum here had an exhibit, Day Jobs, which explored, among other things, how the straight jobs some artists have held informed their work.
Everyone has the capacity for artistic expression, and everyone's got to eat. It's nice when the one leads to the other, but we should by no means expect it. And IMO, it is suspect when someone makes art with the goal of making money.
posted by adamrice at 8:09 AM on August 21 [14 favorites]
Everyone has the capacity for artistic expression, and everyone's got to eat. It's nice when the one leads to the other, but we should by no means expect it. And IMO, it is suspect when someone makes art with the goal of making money.
posted by adamrice at 8:09 AM on August 21 [14 favorites]
I wonder how driving for work and factory work impacted his artistic output. In the case of Glass it seems potentially to have been quite impactful.
posted by latkes at 8:12 AM on August 21 [2 favorites]
posted by latkes at 8:12 AM on August 21 [2 favorites]
imagine reading Siddhartha or The Glass Bead Game at a steel mill
This struck me as patronising
I took it more as "consider the contrast between the works in question and the environment in which they were experienced."
as Siddhartha is a bildungsroman written by a European set elsewhere or glass bead game is about music/object relation? [g2]
posted by HearHere at 8:21 AM on August 21 [2 favorites]
This struck me as patronising
I took it more as "consider the contrast between the works in question and the environment in which they were experienced."
as Siddhartha is a bildungsroman written by a European set elsewhere or glass bead game is about music/object relation? [g2]
posted by HearHere at 8:21 AM on August 21 [2 favorites]
Certainly every individual has the capacity to understand and enjoy art and literature, regardless of occupation or educational level. But the fact is that few do, and when looking at groups, people with less education are even less likely to do so, for a mix of reasons, including energy, access, and interest. For instance, in 2018, people with a graduate or professional degree spent 28 minutes a day reading for "personal interest"; those who had not earned a high school diploma read for an average of 8 minutes. (It's not for lack of time; on average we spent 3 hours a day watching TV.)
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:26 AM on August 21 [2 favorites]
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 8:26 AM on August 21 [2 favorites]
From 2010-2011 I was touring regularly with him and another, more popular band. I could have turned that into a full-time career, but one of the things about touring is that it completely disconnects you from your community and also whatever romantic relationship you may have,
I was also once a popular regional performer getting interest beyond the region in my niche. At an annual conference I attended, I had the opportunity to hear not one, but two well-known national acts talk about how they managed life on the road. I realized that I could not do what they did, and didn't want to. Nonetheless, it took many years for me to stop feeling like a failure as a performer instead of being able to recognize, as I now do, that I was actually very successful.
posted by Well I never at 8:30 AM on August 21 [17 favorites]
I was also once a popular regional performer getting interest beyond the region in my niche. At an annual conference I attended, I had the opportunity to hear not one, but two well-known national acts talk about how they managed life on the road. I realized that I could not do what they did, and didn't want to. Nonetheless, it took many years for me to stop feeling like a failure as a performer instead of being able to recognize, as I now do, that I was actually very successful.
posted by Well I never at 8:30 AM on August 21 [17 favorites]
it took many years for me to stop feeling like a failure as a performer instead of being able to recognize, as I now do, that I was actually very successful
The "album under another moniker" that I put out right after my full-length got a much, much more positive response from pretty much everyone - including press that had dismissed my previous effort. People have been asking for a follow-up since then, and I have not followed up. I'm sure there's a strong element of self-sabotage going on. Being an artist is emotionally complicated!
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:54 AM on August 21 [13 favorites]
The "album under another moniker" that I put out right after my full-length got a much, much more positive response from pretty much everyone - including press that had dismissed my previous effort. People have been asking for a follow-up since then, and I have not followed up. I'm sure there's a strong element of self-sabotage going on. Being an artist is emotionally complicated!
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:54 AM on August 21 [13 favorites]
“What he's saying is that”
I know what he’s saying. I’m not new. I’m an artist who has wasted 40 years of my creative life working for money and trying to make art “in my spare time.” It’s not something that works out for everyone and I resent the implication that it does or should.
posted by toodleydoodley at 9:27 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
I know what he’s saying. I’m not new. I’m an artist who has wasted 40 years of my creative life working for money and trying to make art “in my spare time.” It’s not something that works out for everyone and I resent the implication that it does or should.
posted by toodleydoodley at 9:27 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
Anywhere a licensed trade exists, there will be people willing to pay unlicensed prices.
posted by rikschell at 9:31 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 9:31 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
Really? You never complained? This was just reality? You are talking about the economy like it’s the weather instead of a system of policies, deliberately crafted by people, to literally give away a bountiful, carefree living to some people and to force everyone else into chains.
Oh great, now we have to have a job AND be a brilliant artist AND be a political revolutionary at all times? When are we supposed to do laundry and walk the dog?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:50 AM on August 21 [17 favorites]
Oh great, now we have to have a job AND be a brilliant artist AND be a political revolutionary at all times? When are we supposed to do laundry and walk the dog?
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:50 AM on August 21 [17 favorites]
(The best day of my life was when I realized I have zero grand ambitions and zero towering talents so I can stop trying to "be creative in my spare time" and can just spend the rest of my life farting around.)
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:52 AM on August 21 [11 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 9:52 AM on August 21 [11 favorites]
And these are the drains my friend
And these are the drains my friend
posted by Ishbadiddle at 9:52 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
And these are the drains my friend
posted by Ishbadiddle at 9:52 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
Cf also Eric Hoffer, longshoreman.
Thank you for that. I'd forgotten his name. And now that I've got it, I can dig up one of my all time fave quotes about* the necessity of creative expression:
"Our doubts about ourselves cannot be banished except by working at that which is the one and only thing we know we ought to do. It is our talents rusting unused within us that secrete the poison of self-doubt into our bloodstream." (Eric Hoffer)
* about anything really
posted by philip-random at 9:54 AM on August 21 [10 favorites]
Thank you for that. I'd forgotten his name. And now that I've got it, I can dig up one of my all time fave quotes about* the necessity of creative expression:
"Our doubts about ourselves cannot be banished except by working at that which is the one and only thing we know we ought to do. It is our talents rusting unused within us that secrete the poison of self-doubt into our bloodstream." (Eric Hoffer)
* about anything really
posted by philip-random at 9:54 AM on August 21 [10 favorites]
Yeah, as a licensed plumber, I'm noping out of random unlicensed people doing any plumbing. Sorry not sorry. It's a public health issue. Plumbing is a licensed trade for a reason. Cholera, backflow from somebody's hose without a vacuum breaker left dangling in a bucket of glyphosate, Legionella, scalding issues, water heater explosions, gas leaks, even just broken or clogged pipes causing untold property damage and unsanitary conditions -- there are many very good reasons why this isn't an amateur sport.
>imagine reading Siddhartha or The Glass Bead Game at a steel mill
>This struck me as patronising
>I took it more as "consider the contrast between the works in question and the environment in which they were experienced."
>Just another take - I took it more as being impressed that Glass was able to absorb fairly intellectual books in a workplace that was likely very noisy and distracting, and likely while physically exhausted, not a comment on the cultural pursuits of typical steel mill workers.
>I know several blue collar workers who enjoy high brow art and culture, I wouldn't be surprised if several of his colleagues at the mill had Hesse in their bookshelves at home, but perhaps no others were reading Hesse during breaks.
I read plenty of "highbrow" literature, scientific publications, and arty books at the lunch table during my plumbing apprenticeship. Something about construction -- working with my hands and my body in a dynamic, challenging environment with abundant and constantly changing sensory input, and having a compressed 30-minute lunch break -- really focused my mind. My brain works more smoothly when my body is exercised and engaged. I still love to read on my breaks now as an office plumber who sits at a desk drafting in CAD and Revit, but the books don't feel nearly so immersive or sweet.
(And yeah, construction is different than manufacturing work, but I 100% found the original quote from the article extremely insulting and classist, and I don't find the apologia offered by commenters here to be remotely convincing.)
posted by cnidaria at 9:56 AM on August 21 [22 favorites]
>imagine reading Siddhartha or The Glass Bead Game at a steel mill
>This struck me as patronising
>I took it more as "consider the contrast between the works in question and the environment in which they were experienced."
>Just another take - I took it more as being impressed that Glass was able to absorb fairly intellectual books in a workplace that was likely very noisy and distracting, and likely while physically exhausted, not a comment on the cultural pursuits of typical steel mill workers.
>I know several blue collar workers who enjoy high brow art and culture, I wouldn't be surprised if several of his colleagues at the mill had Hesse in their bookshelves at home, but perhaps no others were reading Hesse during breaks.
I read plenty of "highbrow" literature, scientific publications, and arty books at the lunch table during my plumbing apprenticeship. Something about construction -- working with my hands and my body in a dynamic, challenging environment with abundant and constantly changing sensory input, and having a compressed 30-minute lunch break -- really focused my mind. My brain works more smoothly when my body is exercised and engaged. I still love to read on my breaks now as an office plumber who sits at a desk drafting in CAD and Revit, but the books don't feel nearly so immersive or sweet.
(And yeah, construction is different than manufacturing work, but I 100% found the original quote from the article extremely insulting and classist, and I don't find the apologia offered by commenters here to be remotely convincing.)
posted by cnidaria at 9:56 AM on August 21 [22 favorites]
Whenever Ives came up in music appreciation classes, etc., it always seemed like the assigned reading still carried a whiff of embarrassment that he was insufficiently formal or even gimmicky compared to his Serious European counterparts. Like he should have been portrayed by Dietrich Bader’s neighbor character from Office Space: “you know what I’d do if I got an orchestral commission man? Conduct two orchestras on the same stage at the same time, man.”
posted by mubba at 9:56 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
posted by mubba at 9:56 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
ryanshepherd, thanks for posting the link to the video on James Hampton’s artwork. I’ve never seen anything like it! The video shows it fairly well, but I can only imagine what it’s like in person.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 10:02 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 10:02 AM on August 21 [4 favorites]
This too: ‘“I never got any money from grants,” Glass adds. He came close when the New York State Council on the Arts awarded him $3,000. “But when they found out I was working, they asked for it back, so I never applied for any grants after that.”‘
I imagine it looks romantic to people who think it’s important for artists to suffer without enough money, but really, the nerve of these gatekeepers to want you to live on crumbs and be grateful.
posted by toodleydoodley at 10:04 AM on August 21 [12 favorites]
I imagine it looks romantic to people who think it’s important for artists to suffer without enough money, but really, the nerve of these gatekeepers to want you to live on crumbs and be grateful.
posted by toodleydoodley at 10:04 AM on August 21 [12 favorites]
'These are the days my friend, These are the days"
posted by Czjewel at 10:20 AM on August 21 [1 favorite]
posted by Czjewel at 10:20 AM on August 21 [1 favorite]
We're not really going to milkshake duck Philip Glass over his side gigs, are we?
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:23 AM on August 21 [8 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:23 AM on August 21 [8 favorites]
whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh
whooooooooosh whoooooooosh
whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh
whooooooooosh whoooooooosh
posted by Horace Rumpole at 10:46 AM on August 21 [2 favorites]
whooooooooosh whoooooooosh
whoosh whoosh whoosh whoosh
whooooooooosh whoooooooosh
posted by Horace Rumpole at 10:46 AM on August 21 [2 favorites]
ryanshepherd, thank you thank you for sharing that. FEAR NOT
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 10:47 AM on August 21 [2 favorites]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 10:47 AM on August 21 [2 favorites]
I know it’s fun to get all butthurt about the steel mill reading bit, but if it’s anything like the blue collar workplace (auto shop/parts counter) that I spent a lot of time as a kid, you’re begging for someone to bust your balls about reading anything other than the sports pages in the breakroom.
posted by dr_dank at 10:52 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
posted by dr_dank at 10:52 AM on August 21 [5 favorites]
We're not really going to milkshake duck Philip Glass over his side gigs, are we?
I'm more annoyed about him aiding and abetting Richard Serra.
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 10:53 AM on August 21 [3 favorites]
I'm more annoyed about him aiding and abetting Richard Serra.
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 10:53 AM on August 21 [3 favorites]
I'm noping out of random unlicensed people doing any plumbing. Sorry not sorry.
for what it's worth, it's a pretty good bet that Vancouver's particularly strong punk-hardcore scene of the late 1970s, early 1980s would not have happened were it not for a rogue electrician (nobody knew if he had a ticket or not, or even what his real name was) who had a facility for finding the hydro mains in old, more or less abandoned warehouses and plugging into them. Fun ensued. Nobody was killed ... except by all the heroin that was kicking around.
We also probably would not have got Neuromancer (the novel) as it was later discovered that "that weird tall American guy" who was always typing like a madman one floor up from one of the more notorious low rent booze cans was indeed William Gibson.
posted by philip-random at 10:58 AM on August 21 [20 favorites]
for what it's worth, it's a pretty good bet that Vancouver's particularly strong punk-hardcore scene of the late 1970s, early 1980s would not have happened were it not for a rogue electrician (nobody knew if he had a ticket or not, or even what his real name was) who had a facility for finding the hydro mains in old, more or less abandoned warehouses and plugging into them. Fun ensued. Nobody was killed ... except by all the heroin that was kicking around.
We also probably would not have got Neuromancer (the novel) as it was later discovered that "that weird tall American guy" who was always typing like a madman one floor up from one of the more notorious low rent booze cans was indeed William Gibson.
posted by philip-random at 10:58 AM on August 21 [20 favorites]
I'm noping out of random unlicensed people doing any plumbing. Sorry not sorry.
Wait, I've replaced my own faucet and shower nozzle using plumber's tape...
I'm gonna be a STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:10 AM on August 21 [7 favorites]
Wait, I've replaced my own faucet and shower nozzle using plumber's tape...
I'm gonna be a STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:10 AM on August 21 [7 favorites]
Just imagine reading Siddhartha or The Glass Bead Game at a steel mill
This struck me as patronising, you have no idea what your plumber or your gardener or accountant gets up to on the weekend, steel mill workers have the same capacity for art and creativity as anyone else.
This is an excellent point. When I was bouncing around jobs after university, I worked at a Kinko's. The customer service end of the job was usually pretty bad, but there was a lot of hands on, creative work with all the printing, copying, cutting, binding, etc. Graphic design, tech support, etc. That end of the work was fun, and I kind of miss it.
My coworkers there, the few dozen or so who worked there were--to a person--educated and talented. Several were in grad school getting their Master's, several were musicians, painters, dancers, you name it. I almost felt outclassed by all the intellectual and artistic ability of others there.
posted by zardoz at 11:51 AM on August 21 [3 favorites]
This struck me as patronising, you have no idea what your plumber or your gardener or accountant gets up to on the weekend, steel mill workers have the same capacity for art and creativity as anyone else.
This is an excellent point. When I was bouncing around jobs after university, I worked at a Kinko's. The customer service end of the job was usually pretty bad, but there was a lot of hands on, creative work with all the printing, copying, cutting, binding, etc. Graphic design, tech support, etc. That end of the work was fun, and I kind of miss it.
My coworkers there, the few dozen or so who worked there were--to a person--educated and talented. Several were in grad school getting their Master's, several were musicians, painters, dancers, you name it. I almost felt outclassed by all the intellectual and artistic ability of others there.
posted by zardoz at 11:51 AM on August 21 [3 favorites]
I know it’s fun to get all butthurt about the steel mill reading bit, but if it’s anything like the blue collar workplace (auto shop/parts counter) that I spent a lot of time as a kid, you’re begging for someone to bust your balls about reading anything other than the sports pages in the breakroom.
dr_dank, maybe it's because I was already visibly apparently a woman and thus automatically an outsider, but I didn't run into this particular attitude. plenty of guys I plumbed with like astronomy or whatever other nerdy thing. and alternatively, plenty of them wanted to watch only deadly boring elk hunting videos (well, really videos of some greasy man in the woods whispering into his cell phone mic while gazing into the selfie camera lens -- I never saw one show any actual hunting) but I just tuned that shit out.
Wait, I've replaced my own faucet and shower nozzle using plumber's tape...
I'm gonna be a STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR
grumpybear69, that is acceptable, haha. you're unlikely to cause an issue replacing your faucet. just don't replace your shower mixing valve with the wrong kind and scald your grandma straight into the emergency room, or take the T&P valve off of your water heater because "it's leaking!" and cap it and make your water heater into a bomb, k? ;-)
In other, less acceptable news, it's also legal in my city for any rando landlord to personally do all their own natural gas piping and plumbing in a building they rent to real live tenants, whether or not they know what the hell they're doing, so that's fun
posted by cnidaria at 12:02 PM on August 21 [13 favorites]
dr_dank, maybe it's because I was already visibly apparently a woman and thus automatically an outsider, but I didn't run into this particular attitude. plenty of guys I plumbed with like astronomy or whatever other nerdy thing. and alternatively, plenty of them wanted to watch only deadly boring elk hunting videos (well, really videos of some greasy man in the woods whispering into his cell phone mic while gazing into the selfie camera lens -- I never saw one show any actual hunting) but I just tuned that shit out.
Wait, I've replaced my own faucet and shower nozzle using plumber's tape...
I'm gonna be a STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR
grumpybear69, that is acceptable, haha. you're unlikely to cause an issue replacing your faucet. just don't replace your shower mixing valve with the wrong kind and scald your grandma straight into the emergency room, or take the T&P valve off of your water heater because "it's leaking!" and cap it and make your water heater into a bomb, k? ;-)
In other, less acceptable news, it's also legal in my city for any rando landlord to personally do all their own natural gas piping and plumbing in a building they rent to real live tenants, whether or not they know what the hell they're doing, so that's fun
posted by cnidaria at 12:02 PM on August 21 [13 favorites]
grumpybear69, that is acceptable, haha. you're unlikely to cause an issue replacing your faucet. just don't replace your shower mixing valve with the wrong kind and scald your grandma straight into the emergency room, or take the T&P valve off of your water heater because "it's leaking!" and cap it and make your water heater into a bomb, k? ;-)
I did, in fact, replace the shower mixing valve after it seized up in the "on" position! We had to turn water off to the whole house because we don't have an access panel on the other side of that wall with a shut-off valve. Fun! The existing handle was a Moen with a terrible soft metal screw that completely stripped holding it in place, resulting in me having to use a hacksaw to get it off. Hacksaws! The one saw you really need. So then we got the replacement valve and a new handle with a less strippable screw and I tested it so many times to make sure that hot and cold were where I expected them to be. Grandma is long gone, but we do have guests.
The only water fixtures I've ever capped (temporarily) were toilet water supplies that steadfastly refused to completely turn off. I plan on switching entirely to quarter-turn ball valves. I'd love to get ones with the extra release valve so you can empty your toilet tank easily before removing it, but AFAICT they only come in 1/2"+ and not the 3/8" that I need.
I'm also looking into replacing my shower diverter which currently has one of those terrible "pull the ball up" style mechanisms that maybe diverts 70% of the water with a quarter-turn ball valve diverter. I just love quarter-turn ball valves!
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:22 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
I did, in fact, replace the shower mixing valve after it seized up in the "on" position! We had to turn water off to the whole house because we don't have an access panel on the other side of that wall with a shut-off valve. Fun! The existing handle was a Moen with a terrible soft metal screw that completely stripped holding it in place, resulting in me having to use a hacksaw to get it off. Hacksaws! The one saw you really need. So then we got the replacement valve and a new handle with a less strippable screw and I tested it so many times to make sure that hot and cold were where I expected them to be. Grandma is long gone, but we do have guests.
The only water fixtures I've ever capped (temporarily) were toilet water supplies that steadfastly refused to completely turn off. I plan on switching entirely to quarter-turn ball valves. I'd love to get ones with the extra release valve so you can empty your toilet tank easily before removing it, but AFAICT they only come in 1/2"+ and not the 3/8" that I need.
I'm also looking into replacing my shower diverter which currently has one of those terrible "pull the ball up" style mechanisms that maybe diverts 70% of the water with a quarter-turn ball valve diverter. I just love quarter-turn ball valves!
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:22 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
I’ll add that Michael Gita of Swans did drywall work for almost the entire 80s in the day, and performed at night. It seems so fitting for that music to be financed by something so repetitive and dirty and noisy and dusty.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:25 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 12:25 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
If you wanna be an artist, most of the time it's just too hard to do that financially. You're better off having a day job and health insurance and rent money every month.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:41 PM on August 21 [3 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:41 PM on August 21 [3 favorites]
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
It's Philip Glass! Didya call for a plumber or not?
posted by xedrik at 1:26 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
Who's there?
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
It's Philip Glass! Didya call for a plumber or not?
posted by xedrik at 1:26 PM on August 21 [5 favorites]
Interesting take.
The painter Cy Twombly said in a interview years ago that he felt bad for young artists because when he was young, in 1950s New York, he could work a couple, three days a week as a house painter and still get by and have lots of time devoted to to his art and people could no longer do that in New York.
I am 59 years old, and I have painted and drawn seriously my entire adult life, and have always had to have a full time job to be able to do that. I have had, and been part of, dozens of art shows, but almost always in outsider kind of places, and have never had any ability to navigate what understands itself as the art world her sin Vancouver. But here I am.
So, I understand myself as having 2 full-time jobs, one of which pays. I refer to my warehouse job as my side gig, because it really is, and also as a refutation to that baleful idea that one's validity as an artist rests on economic results.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 1:53 PM on August 21 [11 favorites]
The painter Cy Twombly said in a interview years ago that he felt bad for young artists because when he was young, in 1950s New York, he could work a couple, three days a week as a house painter and still get by and have lots of time devoted to to his art and people could no longer do that in New York.
I am 59 years old, and I have painted and drawn seriously my entire adult life, and have always had to have a full time job to be able to do that. I have had, and been part of, dozens of art shows, but almost always in outsider kind of places, and have never had any ability to navigate what understands itself as the art world her sin Vancouver. But here I am.
So, I understand myself as having 2 full-time jobs, one of which pays. I refer to my warehouse job as my side gig, because it really is, and also as a refutation to that baleful idea that one's validity as an artist rests on economic results.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 1:53 PM on August 21 [11 favorites]
I know one artist, a musician, who has never had to do anything other than play their instrument since they were a young teen. They are the child of a good friend, whose household earns enough to support their adult child at their endeavors even now the child is in their 30s. The kid is really good, but there are only a few dozen paid jobs for what they do in north america (maybe a few hundred in all the world) and they have yet to make the cut, as it were. (Top artist jobs, despite blind auditions and such are still very much a "who you know" type of job as much as they are a test of talent. There are many talented people competing for each slot so it makes sense the hiring person is going to go with someone they're familiar with; the talent is all roughly the same level.)
It's really nice this was able to happen, but unfortunately means this sort of life is open only to those lucky enough to be born into wealth and privilege. To be clear, the kid puts in the time: It's a beyond-full-time job to become skilled and maintain those skills for an orchestral instrument, not to mention the networking to try and keep your name in people's heads when they're thinking of hiring a musician.
Society would benefit as a whole if we funded artists to at least be able to live a reasonable life. What we get back is worth it.
posted by maxwelton at 2:32 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
It's really nice this was able to happen, but unfortunately means this sort of life is open only to those lucky enough to be born into wealth and privilege. To be clear, the kid puts in the time: It's a beyond-full-time job to become skilled and maintain those skills for an orchestral instrument, not to mention the networking to try and keep your name in people's heads when they're thinking of hiring a musician.
Society would benefit as a whole if we funded artists to at least be able to live a reasonable life. What we get back is worth it.
posted by maxwelton at 2:32 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
I was on tour once and we ended up crashing with this band at their Band House, which was an enormous mansion filled with Orange amplifiers and Moog synths and an honest-to-goodness apothecary. The lead singers came from Very Wealthy Families with spare mansions that allowed them to just rehearse and gig and not worry about anything. It was eye-opening. But that is a lot of popular and successful full time musicians! Just like having a big war chest helps in elections, it also helps with the war of attrition that is trying to "make it."
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:55 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:55 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
When I was bouncing around jobs after university, I worked at a Kinko's. The customer service end of the job was usually pretty bad, but there was a lot of hands on, creative work with all the printing, copying, cutting, binding, etc. Graphic design, tech support, etc. That end of the work was fun, and I kind of miss it.
There were probably more than a few zines in the 80's and 90's (and earlier) that owed their existence to having (or being) an "inside connection" in a Kinko's or your equivalent local copy center.
posted by gtrwolf at 3:28 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
There were probably more than a few zines in the 80's and 90's (and earlier) that owed their existence to having (or being) an "inside connection" in a Kinko's or your equivalent local copy center.
posted by gtrwolf at 3:28 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
I'm surprised Gioia didn't mention that Philip Glass's partner in Chelsea Light Moving was Steve Reich. In addition to lending the name to a Thurston Moore side project, Chelsea Light Moving also inspired a Reich-Glass pastiche by the composer David Lang.
posted by jonp72 at 3:41 PM on August 21 [3 favorites]
posted by jonp72 at 3:41 PM on August 21 [3 favorites]
Mr.Know-It-Some, oh wow did you ever hit on some ugly library history with the "improving oneself" thing. I'm sorry, but not entirely surprised, that the librarian you talked to used that horrendous framing.
Long story short, a lot of this goes back to racist classist anti-immigrant anti-intellectual corporatist asswipe Andrew Carnegie, who funded construction of a whole lot of American public libraries, especially in small towns. Ol' Andrew definitely believed the library existed exclusively to Improve Those People (that is, make them able to copycat bourgeois whiteness while working shit jobs) without, of course, giving them any ideas that might make them, y'know, unionize or stand up for themselves politically or anything else that would discommode ol' Andrew.
Waaaaaaaaaaay too many 20th-c. librarians accepted these ideas uncritically. Waaaaaaay too many 21st-century librarians don't know this history behind the "improving" idea, so teach and/or accept it uncritically.
Me, I make 'em read this piece in intro.
posted by humbug at 4:04 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
Long story short, a lot of this goes back to racist classist anti-immigrant anti-intellectual corporatist asswipe Andrew Carnegie, who funded construction of a whole lot of American public libraries, especially in small towns. Ol' Andrew definitely believed the library existed exclusively to Improve Those People (that is, make them able to copycat bourgeois whiteness while working shit jobs) without, of course, giving them any ideas that might make them, y'know, unionize or stand up for themselves politically or anything else that would discommode ol' Andrew.
Waaaaaaaaaaay too many 20th-c. librarians accepted these ideas uncritically. Waaaaaaay too many 21st-century librarians don't know this history behind the "improving" idea, so teach and/or accept it uncritically.
Me, I make 'em read this piece in intro.
posted by humbug at 4:04 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
The New York Times obituary of Rufus Thomas mentions that he had a day job operating boilers at a textile-bleaching plant, where, he said, the noise sometimes suggested rhythms for songs and lyrics.
posted by zombiedance at 4:42 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
posted by zombiedance at 4:42 PM on August 21 [4 favorites]
There were probably more than a few zines in the 80's and 90's (and earlier) that owed their existence to having (or being) an "inside connection" in a Kinko's or your equivalent local copy center.
No probably about it - when I was living in Boston in the early-mid 90s, copy counters (a technology so ancient now that hardly anyone remembers it: a small plastic box with a mechanical counter in it that you pushed into a port on a copier, and which you were supposed to bring to the counter afterward to settle up) were circulating among zine + punk show flyer makers. A good number walked with employees, many of whom were also running off huge amounts of personal copies on company time.
thanks for posting the link to the video on James Hampton’s artwork. I’ve never seen anything like it! The video shows it fairly well, but I can only imagine what it’s like in person.
I couldn't come from a different background than Hampton, and wasn't religious as a kid or now, but it stopped me in my tracks. It has an undeniable, spooky presence, and the fact that it was made right here, by an ordinary person, and entirely from trash grew in importance for me as I revisited it over the years (I've lived here most of my life, and go back to the museum 3-4 times a year). It was one of the first things that I saw that said that art wasn't some remote or inaccessible thing that only 'Artists' could make.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:04 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
No probably about it - when I was living in Boston in the early-mid 90s, copy counters (a technology so ancient now that hardly anyone remembers it: a small plastic box with a mechanical counter in it that you pushed into a port on a copier, and which you were supposed to bring to the counter afterward to settle up) were circulating among zine + punk show flyer makers. A good number walked with employees, many of whom were also running off huge amounts of personal copies on company time.
thanks for posting the link to the video on James Hampton’s artwork. I’ve never seen anything like it! The video shows it fairly well, but I can only imagine what it’s like in person.
I couldn't come from a different background than Hampton, and wasn't religious as a kid or now, but it stopped me in my tracks. It has an undeniable, spooky presence, and the fact that it was made right here, by an ordinary person, and entirely from trash grew in importance for me as I revisited it over the years (I've lived here most of my life, and go back to the museum 3-4 times a year). It was one of the first things that I saw that said that art wasn't some remote or inaccessible thing that only 'Artists' could make.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:04 PM on August 21 [7 favorites]
The Philip Glass of my imagination knows Herman Hesse was once a mechanic's apprentice in a factory.
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:07 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:07 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
My father's lifelong day job was designing kitchens and selling kitchen cabinets; after work and on the weekends, he studied voice and performed in local opera companies. I watched him bring the precision from his paying job to his avocation. He found joy in both, and that was a lovely lesson.
posted by goofyfoot at 6:48 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
posted by goofyfoot at 6:48 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
Having just returned from WorldCon, I'm reminded how many astoundingly talented people, with multiple books, short stories, and awards under their belt, are working day jobs because the ongoing movement of income from sales away from the author makes it impossible for all but the few to survive on writing alone.
I support UBI for many reasons, not the least of which is that it provide an influence-free patronage system that would allow those people who seek to create the opportunity to do so without having to starve themselves, give up the reasonable trappings of life, and not actually be beholden to someone just because they have the cash.
(We really only have Whistler's Peacock Room because the magnate funding it was away on business and couldn't stop the art or the expense! An interesting read here, and if you are in the US and can get to see it, it is worth any journey you make as it is stunning.)
posted by nfalkner at 6:56 PM on August 21 [13 favorites]
I support UBI for many reasons, not the least of which is that it provide an influence-free patronage system that would allow those people who seek to create the opportunity to do so without having to starve themselves, give up the reasonable trappings of life, and not actually be beholden to someone just because they have the cash.
(We really only have Whistler's Peacock Room because the magnate funding it was away on business and couldn't stop the art or the expense! An interesting read here, and if you are in the US and can get to see it, it is worth any journey you make as it is stunning.)
posted by nfalkner at 6:56 PM on August 21 [13 favorites]
Following up myself, to avoid overloading the previous note, I have worked a wide range of jobs, some blue collar, some not, and found that from a fatigue and capability perspective, it was easier to be a creative working a professional gig than fitting it in around shift work and heavy labour. Other people may find it easier to juggle, but my comment about UBI above should be read in the context that allowing people to choose the additional labour they do may result in happier lives and better art.
posted by nfalkner at 6:58 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
posted by nfalkner at 6:58 PM on August 21 [6 favorites]
There was just an article in the Guardian about how Ireland (pop. ~7 million) has been punching above its weight in producing successful writers, with some discussion of the financial aspects:
“We put a huge amount of emphasis on our bursary awards. The budget for that is close to €2m – and that’s just money that’s going straight to individual writers so that they can take time out to work on their projects.” The largest of these awards is the Next Generation Artist award – a stipend of up to €25,000 that has gone to some of the country’s best and brightest, including Flattery, Niamh Campbell and Sinéad Gleeson.posted by trig at 7:09 PM on August 21 [11 favorites]
“The bursaries have always been ‘no strings attached’, in a way,” says Bannan. In other words, nobody is banging down your door after six months demanding a book. Ireland also has a tax exemption on artists’ income up to €50,000 and has launched a basic-income pilot scheme granting 2,000 artists €325 a week.
One of my favorite musical artists, Scott Miller of Game Theory and the Loud Family worked for a Bay area tech company for the entire period he released music, mid '80s through 2000s. Used his vacation days to go on tours.
And Corb Lund has a funny song about having to drop out of music full time and get a day job. "Having trouble with authority works better in a song.
They're gonna take that job and shove it right back at me all day long"
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:18 AM on August 22 [3 favorites]
And Corb Lund has a funny song about having to drop out of music full time and get a day job. "Having trouble with authority works better in a song.
They're gonna take that job and shove it right back at me all day long"
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:18 AM on August 22 [3 favorites]
being around the people mostly, it certainly wasn't for the money, but that world is full of people who aren't in the right job, the job they want to be in
There's something about this intersection of community, identity and place vis-a-vis the need to sing for one's bread.
I haven't heard a lot here that specifically ties the current acceleration of housing prices to this issue, but obviously it's a huge player in how creative communities or individual efforts within them function.
I was strongly affected by working for a city during a period of growing gentrification and also being a liaison to the arts council. I'd go into one meeting and hear developer's needs to get BIG subsidies/concessions from the city to come in and invest. And then I'd go into a next meeting looking at survey data showing the income curve of the artist community we surveyed. This was a well established and successful (even commercially sometimes) arts community.
That income curve was not tall but it was steep.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 9:04 AM on August 22 [1 favorite]
There's something about this intersection of community, identity and place vis-a-vis the need to sing for one's bread.
I haven't heard a lot here that specifically ties the current acceleration of housing prices to this issue, but obviously it's a huge player in how creative communities or individual efforts within them function.
I was strongly affected by working for a city during a period of growing gentrification and also being a liaison to the arts council. I'd go into one meeting and hear developer's needs to get BIG subsidies/concessions from the city to come in and invest. And then I'd go into a next meeting looking at survey data showing the income curve of the artist community we surveyed. This was a well established and successful (even commercially sometimes) arts community.
That income curve was not tall but it was steep.
posted by Reasonably Everything Happens at 9:04 AM on August 22 [1 favorite]
IMO, it is suspect when someone makes art with the goal of making money.
Dr Johnson begs to differ.
posted by BWA at 11:27 AM on August 22 [4 favorites]
Dr Johnson begs to differ.
posted by BWA at 11:27 AM on August 22 [4 favorites]
Frank Bunker Gilbreth rotating slowly in his grave. “I was a fool. I was a tool.”
posted by toodleydoodley at 11:52 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
posted by toodleydoodley at 11:52 AM on August 22 [2 favorites]
I haven't heard a lot here that specifically ties the current acceleration of housing prices to this issue, but obviously it's a huge player in how creative communities or individual efforts within them function.
When I quit my job to try music full-time, I was living in a cheap rent controlled apartment in San Francisco and had a great relationship with my landlord.
When I decided to go full time in not-music again, I had recently been evicted from one NYC apartment and moved to another which demanded cash rent.
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:23 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
When I quit my job to try music full-time, I was living in a cheap rent controlled apartment in San Francisco and had a great relationship with my landlord.
When I decided to go full time in not-music again, I had recently been evicted from one NYC apartment and moved to another which demanded cash rent.
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:23 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
The_Vegetables: And Corb Lund has a funny song about having to drop out of music full time and get a day job
A couple of weeks ago I was in a cheap hotel room (where "smoke free" smelled like lies), watching APTN around midnight, and Corb Lund popped up on the screen playing a musician who had long ago quit making music to become an unethical (and High Level, AB-rich) oilfield contractor.
posted by clawsoon at 1:24 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
A couple of weeks ago I was in a cheap hotel room (where "smoke free" smelled like lies), watching APTN around midnight, and Corb Lund popped up on the screen playing a musician who had long ago quit making music to become an unethical (and High Level, AB-rich) oilfield contractor.
posted by clawsoon at 1:24 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]
I know that some MeFites don't care for his stuff, but David Sedaris is a good example of someone who kept his day job (cleaning apartments) for quite some time after the "Santaland Diaries" put him on This American Life and therefore a national stage. He even got some grist for pieces out of it, such as the time that he got a new client who thought that he was going to get a male cleaner who did his duties in the nude.
Also, in my first quote-endquote real job (a full-time summer job that grown men did year-round), cleaning at an electrical-equipment plant in Chicago, I brought Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance to read on my lunch breaks. I never got that far into the book, though, likely because its protagonist was much older than me and concerned with philosophical matters that were far beyond my then-meager life experience. (By the way, Robert Pirsig wrote the book while engaged in his own day job, writing computer manuals.) One of my co-workers more correctly gauged my teenage interests and gave me a book about the rather frisky adventures of a prostitute; that one I did finish.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:18 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
Also, in my first quote-endquote real job (a full-time summer job that grown men did year-round), cleaning at an electrical-equipment plant in Chicago, I brought Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance to read on my lunch breaks. I never got that far into the book, though, likely because its protagonist was much older than me and concerned with philosophical matters that were far beyond my then-meager life experience. (By the way, Robert Pirsig wrote the book while engaged in his own day job, writing computer manuals.) One of my co-workers more correctly gauged my teenage interests and gave me a book about the rather frisky adventures of a prostitute; that one I did finish.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:18 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]
« Older Bats in Churches | The Lesbian Bar Project Newer »
posted by The River Ivel at 1:57 AM on August 21 [36 favorites]