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August 24, 2024 1:00 PM Subscribe
Dr Angela Collier, a Star Trek fan, eviscerates 'Star Trek: Picard' over the course of nearly 4 hours, which is a long run-time but it seems to fly by much faster and in a more entertaining way, than an episode of the aforementioned 'Picard' - How Star Trek: Picard Ruins Star Trek. Dr Collier has created a stellar catalog of informative (and much shorter) essays on science, academia, book-reviews and AI. A quick sample - the most important material in science , The Scourge of the Shire, the postdoc exodus , AI does not exist but it will ruin everything anyway.
I'm so glad we now have a succinct answer to anyone wondering why Picard was so bad.
posted by GoblinHoney at 1:08 PM on August 24 [15 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 1:08 PM on August 24 [15 favorites]
Bookmarking this for later. Thank you for sharing.
The last season of Picard was entertaining but it was also full of so much fan-service and it just kind of muddled along. Also felt like it could have just been a 1 or 1.5 hour film to close it out, but it is what it is, a kind of Frankenstein monster of nostalgia.
posted by Fizz at 1:31 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
The last season of Picard was entertaining but it was also full of so much fan-service and it just kind of muddled along. Also felt like it could have just been a 1 or 1.5 hour film to close it out, but it is what it is, a kind of Frankenstein monster of nostalgia.
posted by Fizz at 1:31 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
those damned Star Trek fans, they ruined Star Trek!
posted by Jon_Evil at 1:31 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 1:31 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
I like the Gary seven aspect, I think that was in the first season. I watched the second season and do not remember anything about it.
"saccharin"
-Gilda Radner
posted by clavdivs at 1:39 PM on August 24
"saccharin"
-Gilda Radner
posted by clavdivs at 1:39 PM on August 24
"Dr Angela Collier, a Star Trek fan, eviscerates 'Star Trek: Picard'"
OK...
"over the course of nearly 4 hours"
blinks
goes back to work
posted by doctornemo at 1:49 PM on August 24 [24 favorites]
OK...
"over the course of nearly 4 hours"
blinks
goes back to work
posted by doctornemo at 1:49 PM on August 24 [24 favorites]
I'll probably watch this with more enthusiasm than I did Picard. Hopefully she covers my biggest gripe about the show.
I found the nostalgia and clunky fan service of the series off putting immediately, as well as the insistence on treating an obviously elderly Patrick Stewart as an action hero. Some friend cajoled me back into watching it, and I eventually made it through the whole thing, and there were actually some good parts!
But what I will never forgive the series, though, is its choice at the end of Season 1. Picard dies, then they reincarnate him back into an android body, which just do happens to be a perfect replica of his old body. Then they never speak of it again.
It was a total miss to get a fresh, clean start. Let that first season be swan song of Patrick Stewart. Then swap in a new actor and have the continuing adventures of Jean-Luc, which is what they did anyways, just now with a character whose life arc has, literally, ended.
posted by Panjandrum at 2:18 PM on August 24 [13 favorites]
I found the nostalgia and clunky fan service of the series off putting immediately, as well as the insistence on treating an obviously elderly Patrick Stewart as an action hero. Some friend cajoled me back into watching it, and I eventually made it through the whole thing, and there were actually some good parts!
But what I will never forgive the series, though, is its choice at the end of Season 1. Picard dies, then they reincarnate him back into an android body, which just do happens to be a perfect replica of his old body. Then they never speak of it again.
It was a total miss to get a fresh, clean start. Let that first season be swan song of Patrick Stewart. Then swap in a new actor and have the continuing adventures of Jean-Luc, which is what they did anyways, just now with a character whose life arc has, literally, ended.
posted by Panjandrum at 2:18 PM on August 24 [13 favorites]
I like the Gary seven aspect, I think that was in the first season.
With Action Hero Terri Garr!
What most annoyed me about all Star Treks but Next Generation most especially was how all space battles between city sized starships had to take place at a distance of a few miles to a few city city blocks. With sound effects even. Who needs proton torpedoes when muzzled loaded 18th century cannons would suffice?
posted by y2karl at 2:34 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
With Action Hero Terri Garr!
What most annoyed me about all Star Treks but Next Generation most especially was how all space battles between city sized starships had to take place at a distance of a few miles to a few city city blocks. With sound effects even. Who needs proton torpedoes when muzzled loaded 18th century cannons would suffice?
posted by y2karl at 2:34 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
"over the course of nearly 4 hours"
blinks
goes back to work
She just kept talking and talking in one long incredibly unbroken sentence moving from topic to topic...
Quite hypnotic.
posted by Johnny Lawn and Garden at 2:56 PM on August 24 [25 favorites]
blinks
goes back to work
She just kept talking and talking in one long incredibly unbroken sentence moving from topic to topic...
Quite hypnotic.
posted by Johnny Lawn and Garden at 2:56 PM on August 24 [25 favorites]
I just watched that episode last week, I don't know who owns the rights to it but I still think it would make a fascinating series with Wil Wheaton on board for production and guest role. I can think of a few names to replace Robert Lansing, who I think was a better actor than most on Star Trek but he was stage and film primarily. interesting how a lot of stars and guest stars appeared in westerns from before the Star trek era, Leonard nimoy, DeForest Kelly. actually I think George takei would make a great addition to a Gary seven series.
I think Steven Straight or , ooh, Thomas Jane would be one of my top picks for the lead. Robert Lansing was so demure in that episode but it was kinda written that way. I think that's why they brought in the youthful Terry for a different perspective, well, the civilian perspective.
I think using some of the same set elements that they did on Picard from the original series was excellent. I love John delancey but I never want to see a Q again on screen. though I would probably pick Roxanne Dawson to direct, at least the pilot.
posted by clavdivs at 3:02 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
I think Steven Straight or , ooh, Thomas Jane would be one of my top picks for the lead. Robert Lansing was so demure in that episode but it was kinda written that way. I think that's why they brought in the youthful Terry for a different perspective, well, the civilian perspective.
I think using some of the same set elements that they did on Picard from the original series was excellent. I love John delancey but I never want to see a Q again on screen. though I would probably pick Roxanne Dawson to direct, at least the pilot.
posted by clavdivs at 3:02 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
This is a really great video and commentary and because I am broken inside the entire time I’m watching it I want to reach into the screen and prop up the Lego rocket which is slightly off kilter from vertical.
posted by FallibleHuman at 3:25 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
posted by FallibleHuman at 3:25 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
Picard was a weird thing.
S1: Here's a new crew for Picard to have adventures with!
S2: You liked those people from S1? Too bad, we're getting rid of them!
S3: It's Fan Service! Remember Moriarty? Fake out! It's the Enterprise F! That blew up real good! Remember Shelby? Not only is her characterization bad, she gets gut shot! Ro? Blown up real good! Also Elnor, although we only hear about the ship he was on getting blown up, I'm assured that it was also real good. But we've got the OG cast, so fan service!
posted by Spike Glee at 3:48 PM on August 24 [10 favorites]
S1: Here's a new crew for Picard to have adventures with!
S2: You liked those people from S1? Too bad, we're getting rid of them!
S3: It's Fan Service! Remember Moriarty? Fake out! It's the Enterprise F! That blew up real good! Remember Shelby? Not only is her characterization bad, she gets gut shot! Ro? Blown up real good! Also Elnor, although we only hear about the ship he was on getting blown up, I'm assured that it was also real good. But we've got the OG cast, so fan service!
posted by Spike Glee at 3:48 PM on August 24 [10 favorites]
This was a good one. I also especially liked her videos on string theory and science communication, and dark matter (and followup).
posted by BungaDunga at 3:54 PM on August 24 [8 favorites]
posted by BungaDunga at 3:54 PM on August 24 [8 favorites]
This was a good video, although I watched the start and then skipped to the last half hour. Some of the points in the last half hour - excessive use of violence, thin plot lines - can be extended to a lot of streaming television. I’ve certainly found myself disengaging from other streaming shows because I find them boring, and then extremely uncomfortable for short periods. The specific Trek criticisms - section 31 is bad, sad future trek fundamentally misunderstands the genre, and who is the future audience of trek - are really good and presented in a way that I found thoughtful
posted by The River Ivel at 4:10 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
posted by The River Ivel at 4:10 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
Were "Capt. Liam Shaw" (Todd Stashwick) not dead in-universe, I'd watch the hell out of any ST series with him in it. The rest? (shrugs) Not so much.
My elevator pitch for a new ST series... "Muppet Borg!" With Piggy as the Queen.
posted by zaixfeep at 4:16 PM on August 24 [10 favorites]
My elevator pitch for a new ST series... "Muppet Borg!" With Piggy as the Queen.
posted by zaixfeep at 4:16 PM on August 24 [10 favorites]
Her videos definitely have a schtick, but they fit her deadpan delivery excellently. She repeatedly (repeating things excessively is part of her schtick) denies being a science communicator/educator, yet I find myself defiantly learning a lot from her while being entertained. Her AI video sums up my thoughts about AI much better than I was able to communicate, and hearing her talk about it felt like a bit of a weight lifted off my shoulders, as I realized I did, in fact, have a defensible position on the topic. Looking forward to digging into this new video when I have an evening to dedicate to it.
posted by WaylandSmith at 4:22 PM on August 24 [2 favorites]
posted by WaylandSmith at 4:22 PM on August 24 [2 favorites]
man, Picard
I shared a lot of disappointed hot takes in the fanfare threads and I stand by all of them except the hopefully optimistic ones
I think a large part of what made the show so weird and bad was that so three seasons felt like the first season of three unrelated shows, like the endings of the movie Clue but with even less holding them together narratively. Oh nooo it’s the boooorg, again, who will be defeated, again, before oh nooo it’s the boooorg, again,
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:01 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
I shared a lot of disappointed hot takes in the fanfare threads and I stand by all of them except the hopefully optimistic ones
I think a large part of what made the show so weird and bad was that so three seasons felt like the first season of three unrelated shows, like the endings of the movie Clue but with even less holding them together narratively. Oh nooo it’s the boooorg, again, who will be defeated, again, before oh nooo it’s the boooorg, again,
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:01 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
I deal with the sorry state of the modern shows by simply not accepting them into my personal head-canon. They sit somewhere outside along with the rest of fanfic, ignored for the most part. They cannot ruin the original TNG era shows I love because they don't count. If some of the original actors want to fool around with this stuff that's fine too since it's obviously not the same characters. If other people enjoy the shows good for them!
Same approach works for Star Wars too.
posted by donio at 5:21 PM on August 24 [9 favorites]
Same approach works for Star Wars too.
posted by donio at 5:21 PM on August 24 [9 favorites]
I imagine Dr Collier meeting Jenny Nicholson and collaborating to produce a work of nerd criticism so vast and penetrating that it becomes the scripture of a new religion.
posted by adamrice at 5:32 PM on August 24 [20 favorites]
posted by adamrice at 5:32 PM on August 24 [20 favorites]
She's my favorite YouTuber but I never had any interest in Picard. But I'm pretty much going to have to watch the whole series as a required-watching for her lecture. Sigh. Fine...that's fine.
posted by xigxag at 6:18 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
posted by xigxag at 6:18 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
The first season of PIC, in 20 years or so, is going to be reappraised and looked on fondly as some of the best Trek ever created, just as DS9 was.
Too bad about the other two seasons. Michael Chabon, why did you forsake us
posted by rhymedirective at 6:48 PM on August 24 [2 favorites]
Too bad about the other two seasons. Michael Chabon, why did you forsake us
posted by rhymedirective at 6:48 PM on August 24 [2 favorites]
I enjoyed Season 3 of Star Trek: Picard a lot and watched it twice through, and the way I interpreted the 'serious' portion of the story was that it was about Picard's life choices with common themes mirrored through the trajectories of his crew, and on the foil side the Borg Queen's motivations and the final death of the Borg. Star Trek is my comfort food, I'll watch most non-gory scifi, so my expectations are lower than others. But I also get that lots of adult fans have much higher expectations and wanted Picard/nuTrek to be inspiring and have compelling stories again like Inner Light, Darmok, etc., and productions/shows that will stand the test of time and rewatchability.
posted by polymodus at 6:48 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
posted by polymodus at 6:48 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
I stopped watching after four episodes, which appears to be about as long as this review.
which is a long run-time but it seems to fly by much faster and in a more entertaining way, than an episode of the aforementioned 'Picard'
That's a good point. I'm sure there's some review-to-Picard-quatloo exchange rate that would make this a fair comparison.
I should give it another try, I guess, but signing up for another streaming service is not compelling unless it is really worth it. I think Paramount and the writers will find this to have been a missed opportunity as much as the fans, given the relatively outstanding acting chops of the cast.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:05 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
which is a long run-time but it seems to fly by much faster and in a more entertaining way, than an episode of the aforementioned 'Picard'
That's a good point. I'm sure there's some review-to-Picard-quatloo exchange rate that would make this a fair comparison.
I should give it another try, I guess, but signing up for another streaming service is not compelling unless it is really worth it. I think Paramount and the writers will find this to have been a missed opportunity as much as the fans, given the relatively outstanding acting chops of the cast.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:05 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
Her long-form takes on various science-adjacent charlatans and quacks are pretty great too.
Her vid on Michio Kaku does a thorough breakdown on the idea of media fixture who is an expert on one thing, but then makes a career out of giving unqualified opinions about everything outside their expertise.
posted by ishmael at 7:19 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
Her vid on Michio Kaku does a thorough breakdown on the idea of media fixture who is an expert on one thing, but then makes a career out of giving unqualified opinions about everything outside their expertise.
posted by ishmael at 7:19 PM on August 24 [1 favorite]
I have to admit to only being a casual viewer of ST, I recall seeing the original series, bits of TNG, some DS9 and then Babylon 5 kind of took over my brain (also Farscape). Somewhere in there, I wondered if The Orville took on the ST mantle in terms of light-hearted sci-fi entertainment with occasional bouts of seriousness. Having said that, I have been enjoying the heck out of Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds though (particularly the musical & the cross-over episodes).
I do enjoy the good Doctors videos immensely - educational, earnest & often very funny. Some of the repetition of key phrases also reminds me of UK comedian Stewart Lee.
posted by phigmov at 8:29 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
I do enjoy the good Doctors videos immensely - educational, earnest & often very funny. Some of the repetition of key phrases also reminds me of UK comedian Stewart Lee.
posted by phigmov at 8:29 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
I will likely start this, although one of the things that I usually like about long-form videos is that the ones that I watch are usually about things that I don't know a lot about, and thus I learn a lot about pop culture phenomena or whatever that I didn't really understand previously. That is not the case with Trek. I did sample part of this--I was intrigued that there was a time stamp for Logan--and found that she seemed to assume that, because the section in Stewart's autobiography about him and Hugh Jackman watching the finished movie for the first time, and crying and holding hands (an admittedly darling mental picture), immediately precedes the first paragraph about PIC, that one must have led to the other. Really? Post hoc ergo propter hoc? Hmm.
I mean, having let the last season of PIC sit with me for a while, I can agree that it sucked real bad. They tried introducing some new characters in the first couple of seasons, some of which I liked a lot, but I guess that they weren't getting the ratings that they wanted, so in S3 Terry Matalas apparently decided that, to paraphrase H.L. Mencken, the common people know what they want--TNG nostalgia--and deserve to get it good and hard. I'm not looking forward to Star Trek: Legacy, if it ever even happens, because I can't stand Jack Crusher. But it didn't ruin Trek going forward; among other things, it's possible in the Trek universe to remove memories permanently, so never mind the temporarily-Borgified young Starfleeters being traumatized. (Which has disturbing implications, but anyway.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:36 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
I mean, having let the last season of PIC sit with me for a while, I can agree that it sucked real bad. They tried introducing some new characters in the first couple of seasons, some of which I liked a lot, but I guess that they weren't getting the ratings that they wanted, so in S3 Terry Matalas apparently decided that, to paraphrase H.L. Mencken, the common people know what they want--TNG nostalgia--and deserve to get it good and hard. I'm not looking forward to Star Trek: Legacy, if it ever even happens, because I can't stand Jack Crusher. But it didn't ruin Trek going forward; among other things, it's possible in the Trek universe to remove memories permanently, so never mind the temporarily-Borgified young Starfleeters being traumatized. (Which has disturbing implications, but anyway.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:36 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
S1 of Picard had so many plot holes that I just had a hard time sticking with it. The one that really soured me on the show was when Jurati straight up murders someone in the medbay of La Sirena and no one had a clue. On a starship that know exactly where you are at all times thanks to you ever-present communicator and is covered in holo-emitters that need to see and hear somehow, and with a victim who's on a bed in the medbay, there's no record at all of what happened when he died? The next episode had Rios hooking up with Jurati and the whole time I thought he knew she was a murderer and was getting close to her to get a confession. Nope - just wanted to fuck a clearly emotionally distraught woman whose mentor just died. It felt so sloppy - like the writers thought up this plot line for something more modern day and hard boiled then just dropped it into a Star Trek show. And then it was never really mentioned again that Jurati was a murder and Rios was a creep.
The writing got so bad as the first season went on that I started to second-guess some of the other "positives" I took from the first episodes. Did they really mean to draw an allusion to colonialism when Picard showed up on the planet of Romulan refugees dressed like a 19th century Brit strolling through occupied Africa in his white linen safariwear and wide-brimmed hat? Or was that just a coincidence? There's a really interesting story to tell about the Federation as oblivious colonizers and they visual set up the connect only to not actually address it.
The other thing about S1 was that the entire season was about dealing with the legacy of Data. Only for season two to be about going back in time to deal with the legacy of Data while ignoring everything about season 1. Season 2 was so meandering that when they went back to their present to stop the Borg I had totally forgotten that was the lingering threat. Then season 3 just brings back Data - again! - totally throwing everything that season 1 was trying to say about the autonomy and "realness" of synths out the window.
I also hated how they established that Picard had a new love interest only for him to repeatedly just leave her back at the vineyard while he heads out on adventures. She's a former Tal Shiar agent who's in love with him. Why isn't she watching his back the entire time?
It really felt like season 3 should have been the one and only season or never happened. It was really jarring to have both take place in the same series and same continuity.
posted by thecjm at 9:04 PM on August 24 [9 favorites]
The writing got so bad as the first season went on that I started to second-guess some of the other "positives" I took from the first episodes. Did they really mean to draw an allusion to colonialism when Picard showed up on the planet of Romulan refugees dressed like a 19th century Brit strolling through occupied Africa in his white linen safariwear and wide-brimmed hat? Or was that just a coincidence? There's a really interesting story to tell about the Federation as oblivious colonizers and they visual set up the connect only to not actually address it.
The other thing about S1 was that the entire season was about dealing with the legacy of Data. Only for season two to be about going back in time to deal with the legacy of Data while ignoring everything about season 1. Season 2 was so meandering that when they went back to their present to stop the Borg I had totally forgotten that was the lingering threat. Then season 3 just brings back Data - again! - totally throwing everything that season 1 was trying to say about the autonomy and "realness" of synths out the window.
I also hated how they established that Picard had a new love interest only for him to repeatedly just leave her back at the vineyard while he heads out on adventures. She's a former Tal Shiar agent who's in love with him. Why isn't she watching his back the entire time?
It really felt like season 3 should have been the one and only season or never happened. It was really jarring to have both take place in the same series and same continuity.
posted by thecjm at 9:04 PM on August 24 [9 favorites]
Oh I forgot about how horribly miscast the actor was for Jack Crusher. He's supposed to be a young man, still under his mother's wing and trying to figure out who he is going to be as an adult and they cast someone who looked like he was at least 35.
posted by thecjm at 9:06 PM on August 24 [8 favorites]
posted by thecjm at 9:06 PM on August 24 [8 favorites]
I will watch a 4 hour video on Star Trek: Lower Decks.
Post when someone does that, maybe after the end of Season 5.
posted by Comstar at 9:07 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
Post when someone does that, maybe after the end of Season 5.
posted by Comstar at 9:07 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]
I looked it up. Jack Crusher is supposed to be 20 during the events of Picard season 3. The actor playing him was 35 when the season aired.
posted by thecjm at 9:10 PM on August 24 [2 favorites]
posted by thecjm at 9:10 PM on August 24 [2 favorites]
lots of adult fans have much higher expectations and wanted Picard/nuTrek to be inspiring and have compelling stories again like Inner Light, Darmok, etc., and productions/shows that will stand the test of time and rewatchability.
Hm, I think I personally would have been fine with a fun show with no staying power. Unfortunately, we got a bad, frustrating, and mostly boring show with no staying power. They had three seasons to try to do something not bad and they couldn't do it! At least it had less torture than Discovery?
posted by BungaDunga at 9:17 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
Hm, I think I personally would have been fine with a fun show with no staying power. Unfortunately, we got a bad, frustrating, and mostly boring show with no staying power. They had three seasons to try to do something not bad and they couldn't do it! At least it had less torture than Discovery?
posted by BungaDunga at 9:17 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
I confess, I'm probably not going to devote 4 hours to hearing someone tell me stuff I basically already know, as pleasant as it is to have ones' biases confirmed and as entertaining as I always find Dr. Collier to be. 4 hours is a big ask.
That said, I can imagine it's hard to say "this is what's wrong with Picard" in a short, blanket way, because the 3 seasons of Picard are as almost completely unrelated to each other as 3 seasons of a show with the same title and lead actor can be.
Season 1 of Picard was reasonably thoughtful and pretty solid; there were certainly creative choices one could disagree with but they mostly still felt like intentional, thoughtful, deliberate creative choices. Except for sticking him in an android body at the end - that felt very much like a *business* decision motivated by uncertainty about whether or not they could get Patrick Stewart to come back for more seasons, should the ratings support more seasons.
Season 2 was...not good, particularly, but I am personally somewhat forgiving of it because it was so clearly hampered by the difficulties of filming a series during the height of the COVID pandemic. I give them a lot of points for the valiant attempt, even if the results left a lot to be desired.
Season 3 tossed out every single thing the earlier seasons did (I have made the comparison to the similar creative zig-zagging of the Sequel Trilogy in Star Wars before, and it still feels pretty apt) in exchange for pandering fanservice and some badly undercooked action-heavy plotlines written by people whose understanding of Star Trek is surface-level at best. There were some great performances in it (Shaw, Vadic, Worf), and the obvious fun that the old TNG cast had filming something together again really elevated some of the stuff much more than it deserved (though even the part of me that enjoyed the old TNG gang couldn't help but be a little appalled at how summarily the S1-S2 cast was dumpstered in favor of the TNG crew), but as a whole it's...really bad.
I do wish any of the people who are writing for actual official Star Treks these days understood the inherent optimism of the genre half as well as Seth McFarlane does. That doesn't seem like it should be a high bar to clear, but well, here we are. SNW gets closer, it's shed some of the immediate darkness and angst, but it still seems oddly reluctant to really acknowledge that it's supposed to be set in a future where humanity has our shit together and things are actually good except out on the very edges.
(On which note: I love Michelle Yeoh, and I even enjoy her scenery-chewing Mirror Universe Georgiou, and I'm still really not looking forward to the Section 31 movie, because I can virtually guarantee it's going to be "Humans Are Still Awful In Star Trek, Just Better At Hiding It: The Movie". I'd love to be wrong and have the movie repudiate everything about Section 31 but yeah, there's no way; even if it actually tried to do that you can't have a movie that is A.) about how antithetical to Star Trek Section 31's entire existence is and also B.) spends all of its time on how Michelle Yeoh is in Section 31 and also a super-cool wisecracking badass.)
posted by mstokes650 at 9:53 PM on August 24 [9 favorites]
That said, I can imagine it's hard to say "this is what's wrong with Picard" in a short, blanket way, because the 3 seasons of Picard are as almost completely unrelated to each other as 3 seasons of a show with the same title and lead actor can be.
Season 1 of Picard was reasonably thoughtful and pretty solid; there were certainly creative choices one could disagree with but they mostly still felt like intentional, thoughtful, deliberate creative choices. Except for sticking him in an android body at the end - that felt very much like a *business* decision motivated by uncertainty about whether or not they could get Patrick Stewart to come back for more seasons, should the ratings support more seasons.
Season 2 was...not good, particularly, but I am personally somewhat forgiving of it because it was so clearly hampered by the difficulties of filming a series during the height of the COVID pandemic. I give them a lot of points for the valiant attempt, even if the results left a lot to be desired.
Season 3 tossed out every single thing the earlier seasons did (I have made the comparison to the similar creative zig-zagging of the Sequel Trilogy in Star Wars before, and it still feels pretty apt) in exchange for pandering fanservice and some badly undercooked action-heavy plotlines written by people whose understanding of Star Trek is surface-level at best. There were some great performances in it (Shaw, Vadic, Worf), and the obvious fun that the old TNG cast had filming something together again really elevated some of the stuff much more than it deserved (though even the part of me that enjoyed the old TNG gang couldn't help but be a little appalled at how summarily the S1-S2 cast was dumpstered in favor of the TNG crew), but as a whole it's...really bad.
I do wish any of the people who are writing for actual official Star Treks these days understood the inherent optimism of the genre half as well as Seth McFarlane does. That doesn't seem like it should be a high bar to clear, but well, here we are. SNW gets closer, it's shed some of the immediate darkness and angst, but it still seems oddly reluctant to really acknowledge that it's supposed to be set in a future where humanity has our shit together and things are actually good except out on the very edges.
(On which note: I love Michelle Yeoh, and I even enjoy her scenery-chewing Mirror Universe Georgiou, and I'm still really not looking forward to the Section 31 movie, because I can virtually guarantee it's going to be "Humans Are Still Awful In Star Trek, Just Better At Hiding It: The Movie". I'd love to be wrong and have the movie repudiate everything about Section 31 but yeah, there's no way; even if it actually tried to do that you can't have a movie that is A.) about how antithetical to Star Trek Section 31's entire existence is and also B.) spends all of its time on how Michelle Yeoh is in Section 31 and also a super-cool wisecracking badass.)
posted by mstokes650 at 9:53 PM on August 24 [9 favorites]
as dostoyevski said, every good season of star trek is the same. every bad season of star trek is bad in its own unique way
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:36 PM on August 24 [6 favorites]
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:36 PM on August 24 [6 favorites]
The last episode of S2 of Prodigy is set during/after the attack on Mars, and Janeway's critique of Starfleet's response (as presented in Picard) could be taken as the writers. Prodigy, Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds are all pretty hopeful.
And while The Orville's optimistic, it's gone to some dark places that ST hasn't dared to.
posted by Spike Glee at 10:47 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
And while The Orville's optimistic, it's gone to some dark places that ST hasn't dared to.
posted by Spike Glee at 10:47 PM on August 24 [3 favorites]
I agree with everything she said. I hate to see torture and rape and (I'll add one) body horror in Star Trek because it's just lazy writing by people who don't get the show. Star Trek now is like the nerdy girl who transformed into the glitzy but cruel cool girl; the people who knew her before think nerdy girl was twice the person that cool girl will ever be.
posted by jabah at 11:47 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
posted by jabah at 11:47 PM on August 24 [4 favorites]
Metafilter: talking and talking in one long incredibly unbroken sentence moving from topic to topic... Quite hypnotic.
posted by jpziller at 1:17 AM on August 25 [10 favorites]
posted by jpziller at 1:17 AM on August 25 [10 favorites]
zaixfeep - I've not seen any Picard, and seeing the video hasn't increased that probability, but I've seen Stashwick in loads of other stuff and he's never less than magnificent, so maybe I'll give S3 a go.
posted by BCMagee at 3:39 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
posted by BCMagee at 3:39 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
The first season of PIC, in 20 years or so, is going to be reappraised and looked on fondly as some of the best Trek ever created, just as DS9 was.
Surely you are joking. Season 1 is some of the worst TV I have ever seen.
posted by Pendragon at 5:26 AM on August 25 [10 favorites]
Surely you are joking. Season 1 is some of the worst TV I have ever seen.
posted by Pendragon at 5:26 AM on August 25 [10 favorites]
Surely you are joking. Season 1 is some of the worst TV I have ever seen.
No, I am not joking! (Also, let’s assume people that disagree with us are acting in good faith, please? This is a Trek post after all.)
Is there questionable stuff in season 1? Absolutely. It’s still a streaming show in the 2020s, after all. But Chabon showed a deep understanding of Star Trek and his skills as a constructor of stories and of characters showed up in the best way. I’m not really interested in a point-by-point defense of PIC season 1, because I’ve already done it and we have rules around here about self-promotion.
I really wish people would give it another shot without prejudice.
posted by rhymedirective at 6:05 AM on August 25 [5 favorites]
No, I am not joking! (Also, let’s assume people that disagree with us are acting in good faith, please? This is a Trek post after all.)
Is there questionable stuff in season 1? Absolutely. It’s still a streaming show in the 2020s, after all. But Chabon showed a deep understanding of Star Trek and his skills as a constructor of stories and of characters showed up in the best way. I’m not really interested in a point-by-point defense of PIC season 1, because I’ve already done it and we have rules around here about self-promotion.
I really wish people would give it another shot without prejudice.
posted by rhymedirective at 6:05 AM on August 25 [5 favorites]
I agree with everything she said. I hate to see torture and rape and (I'll add one) body horror in Star Trek because it's just lazy writing by people who don't get the show.
Counterpoint: Chain of Command. The episode of DS9 where Garak tortures Odo. Every Troi episode. The TNG episode Genesis.
People don’t like KurtzmanTrek. That’s fine! The old stuff isn’t going anywhere. But let’s not pretend like Trek pre-2017 was all some elevated artsy storytelling. A lot of it is bad, makes questionable creative decisions, etc etc. Star Trek has always been made for commercial television, after all.
posted by rhymedirective at 6:10 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
Counterpoint: Chain of Command. The episode of DS9 where Garak tortures Odo. Every Troi episode. The TNG episode Genesis.
People don’t like KurtzmanTrek. That’s fine! The old stuff isn’t going anywhere. But let’s not pretend like Trek pre-2017 was all some elevated artsy storytelling. A lot of it is bad, makes questionable creative decisions, etc etc. Star Trek has always been made for commercial television, after all.
posted by rhymedirective at 6:10 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
How long was Chabon involved in Picard? I thought the first season had an amazingly strong start, and the first half had so many interesting ideas, but by the halfway point I felt like the show had crawled up it's own Bajorian Wormhole. IMO, the first season was worse than "bad" - it was squandered.
I really enjoyed how they explored the idea of a traumatized Federation, one withdrawing into itself in the face of a changing galaxy. It had defeated its enemies and outlasted its rivals, but failed to heed the ideals that made it great and paid a terrible price. But by the end of the show, the Federation is showing up with a fleet of hero ships, ready to deal with the clip-art version of Mass Effect's Reapers, I guess. Such a waste.
By the midpoint, I was really hoping they'd let Sir Patrick rest after this, and spin-off Star Trek: Rangers! Jeri Ryan's badass older Seven leading a new crew of weirdos and roughnecks, holding to the ideals of the Federation that the Federation itself has abandoned, using their limited resources to help those who slip between the cracks...could have been an amazing show.
posted by Rudy_Wiser at 7:17 AM on August 25 [8 favorites]
I really enjoyed how they explored the idea of a traumatized Federation, one withdrawing into itself in the face of a changing galaxy. It had defeated its enemies and outlasted its rivals, but failed to heed the ideals that made it great and paid a terrible price. But by the end of the show, the Federation is showing up with a fleet of hero ships, ready to deal with the clip-art version of Mass Effect's Reapers, I guess. Such a waste.
By the midpoint, I was really hoping they'd let Sir Patrick rest after this, and spin-off Star Trek: Rangers! Jeri Ryan's badass older Seven leading a new crew of weirdos and roughnecks, holding to the ideals of the Federation that the Federation itself has abandoned, using their limited resources to help those who slip between the cracks...could have been an amazing show.
posted by Rudy_Wiser at 7:17 AM on August 25 [8 favorites]
Counterpoint: Chain of Command. The episode of DS9 where Garak tortures Odo. Every Troi episode. The TNG episode Genesis.
People don’t like KurtzmanTrek. That’s fine! The old stuff isn’t going anywhere. But let’s not pretend like Trek pre-2017 was all some elevated artsy storytelling. A lot of it is bad, makes questionable creative decisions, etc etc. Star Trek has always been made for commercial television, after all.
It's a lot easier to forgive a clunker of an episode when 1) the series is episodic and 2) you have like 22 episodes per season. I think a lot of the problems with Picard stem from the format: you could (as she notes) probably have done a decent episode or two with the ideas in each season of Picard, or even a kind of bad TNG movie, but spread out into a season of "prestige TV" it just amplifies the suck and gives you time to cogitate on all the plot holes. When the plot is finished in an hour the fact that the plot is swiss cheese is much less of a problem.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:06 AM on August 25 [8 favorites]
People don’t like KurtzmanTrek. That’s fine! The old stuff isn’t going anywhere. But let’s not pretend like Trek pre-2017 was all some elevated artsy storytelling. A lot of it is bad, makes questionable creative decisions, etc etc. Star Trek has always been made for commercial television, after all.
It's a lot easier to forgive a clunker of an episode when 1) the series is episodic and 2) you have like 22 episodes per season. I think a lot of the problems with Picard stem from the format: you could (as she notes) probably have done a decent episode or two with the ideas in each season of Picard, or even a kind of bad TNG movie, but spread out into a season of "prestige TV" it just amplifies the suck and gives you time to cogitate on all the plot holes. When the plot is finished in an hour the fact that the plot is swiss cheese is much less of a problem.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:06 AM on August 25 [8 favorites]
MetaFilter: Surely you are joking.
MetaFilter: No, I am not joking! (Also, let’s assume people that disagree with us are acting in good faith, please? This is a Trek post after all.)
posted by y2karl at 9:07 AM on August 25 [7 favorites]
MetaFilter: No, I am not joking! (Also, let’s assume people that disagree with us are acting in good faith, please? This is a Trek post after all.)
posted by y2karl at 9:07 AM on August 25 [7 favorites]
I think a lot of the problems with Picard stem from the format: you could (as she notes) probably have done a decent episode or two with the ideas in each season of Picard, or even a kind of bad TNG movie, but spread out into a season of "prestige TV" it just amplifies the suck and gives you time to cogitate on all the plot holes
I’m on record somewhere else on this site (or the purple) stating that Star Trek doesn’t really fit into the modern-day, single-season serialized plot that signifies “prestige TV.” The story engine was built around, “what planet are we in orbit around this week” (or in DS9’s case, “what ship came out of the wormhole this week”), and it doesn’t handle multi-episodic plots particularly well without making characters hold the idiot ball or stop talking to each other.
That’s what generally makes Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds work, while Discovery feels a little strained (I haven’t watched Prodigy at all). And in Picard, well, there were some good ideas there that could have been balanced into something great. But as far as I’m concerned, the ending to Picard’s story is “All Good Things,” even though that doesn’t mean I think everything else is noncanon. It just means that’s the point I want everything to come back to in the end.
posted by thecaddy at 9:18 AM on August 25 [4 favorites]
I’m on record somewhere else on this site (or the purple) stating that Star Trek doesn’t really fit into the modern-day, single-season serialized plot that signifies “prestige TV.” The story engine was built around, “what planet are we in orbit around this week” (or in DS9’s case, “what ship came out of the wormhole this week”), and it doesn’t handle multi-episodic plots particularly well without making characters hold the idiot ball or stop talking to each other.
That’s what generally makes Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds work, while Discovery feels a little strained (I haven’t watched Prodigy at all). And in Picard, well, there were some good ideas there that could have been balanced into something great. But as far as I’m concerned, the ending to Picard’s story is “All Good Things,” even though that doesn’t mean I think everything else is noncanon. It just means that’s the point I want everything to come back to in the end.
posted by thecaddy at 9:18 AM on August 25 [4 favorites]
As a big Trek, and especially TNG, fan, this thread has really made it abundantly clear my decision to skip Picard was the correct one. I think that what I want from Star Trek is not so much optimism but a type of dorky earnestness? I think about Jenny Nicholson’s Star Wars Hotel debacle video a lot, and I realize that if Star Trek were more popular with families, a Trek Hotel with similar LARP sensibilities might work better because classic Trek isn’t about Heroes, it’s about A Crew Working Together To Solve Problems. And modern Trek seems to want to show off people behaving heroically with epic action sequences. Nah, not for me!
posted by RubixsQube at 9:34 AM on August 25 [12 favorites]
posted by RubixsQube at 9:34 AM on August 25 [12 favorites]
I'm not looking forward to Star Trek: Legacy, if it ever even happens,
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:26 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
Every single person in the nearby galaxy who is related to Starfleet in any capacity had the worst day of their life specifically because of [Jack Crusher.] They're going to try to kill him. That's what the Star Trek Colon Legacy show would be about.I'd watch that.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 11:26 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
I mostly agreed with everything I saw in the video, but I’m surprised at the focus on Picard when the same issues are clearly present in both the reboot original series movies and Discovery. Somewhere along the way the franchise transformed from a humanistic philosophical drama with occasional action and suspense scenes into a cgi fest that Schopenhauer and Colonel Jessup would love.
posted by eagles123 at 11:36 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
posted by eagles123 at 11:36 AM on August 25 [1 favorite]
I tried watching this, but stopped after the first section when it looked like it was pretty much going to be, "'Star Trek: Picard' was bad because it was not 'Star Trek: The Next Generation'.
None of the elements she was listing (optimism, episodic nature, ensemble cast, etc.) had anything remotely to do with what I consider to be the merits or flaws of either show.
posted by kyrademon at 2:01 PM on August 25
None of the elements she was listing (optimism, episodic nature, ensemble cast, etc.) had anything remotely to do with what I consider to be the merits or flaws of either show.
posted by kyrademon at 2:01 PM on August 25
rhymedirective: The first season of PIC, in 20 years or so, is going to be reappraised and looked on fondly as some of the best Trek ever created.
Pendragon: Surely you are joking. Season 1 is some of the worst TV I have ever seen.
rhymedragon: No, I am not joking! (Also, let’s assume people that disagree with us are acting in good faith, please? This is a Trek post after all.)
It seemed a bit Star Trek Online: a spare Borg MacGuffin, random little ships dealing with a federation-wide crisis. Such fun!
I hope that in 20 years, we think that "synthetic bipedal robots" is slaves (and anyone desiring AI bipedal workers is a slaver) or that security and autonomy of those workers mean that they unionised and didn't betray their role in society or their workforce. Bipedal android slaves and terrible security that has them all used against you and this bigotry about "synthetic" life versus fleshy life after all the other Trek "life, not as we know it."
I like the headcanon that TNG-era Trek is post-scarcity cosplay for LARPers, kept alive by much smarter Ship Computers, but that would involve accommodation of the ideas about limited agency of our bipedal characters within the choices offered by a cabal of ship and starbase minds. I hope that, in 20 years, we can tell stories that have heroes at different tiers of power.
Maybe also in 20 years they're going to have an explanation how post-scarcity was rolled back into scarcity -- even Discovery using 'dilithium tekekinetic crisis' to stop convenient super-lightspeed travel needs to be called out for not making sense by Star Trek.
posted by k3ninho at 2:13 PM on August 25 [1 favorite]
Pendragon: Surely you are joking. Season 1 is some of the worst TV I have ever seen.
rhymedragon: No, I am not joking! (Also, let’s assume people that disagree with us are acting in good faith, please? This is a Trek post after all.)
It seemed a bit Star Trek Online: a spare Borg MacGuffin, random little ships dealing with a federation-wide crisis. Such fun!
I hope that in 20 years, we think that "synthetic bipedal robots" is slaves (and anyone desiring AI bipedal workers is a slaver) or that security and autonomy of those workers mean that they unionised and didn't betray their role in society or their workforce. Bipedal android slaves and terrible security that has them all used against you and this bigotry about "synthetic" life versus fleshy life after all the other Trek "life, not as we know it."
I like the headcanon that TNG-era Trek is post-scarcity cosplay for LARPers, kept alive by much smarter Ship Computers, but that would involve accommodation of the ideas about limited agency of our bipedal characters within the choices offered by a cabal of ship and starbase minds. I hope that, in 20 years, we can tell stories that have heroes at different tiers of power.
Maybe also in 20 years they're going to have an explanation how post-scarcity was rolled back into scarcity -- even Discovery using 'dilithium tekekinetic crisis' to stop convenient super-lightspeed travel needs to be called out for not making sense by Star Trek.
posted by k3ninho at 2:13 PM on August 25 [1 favorite]
I found this video very cathartic. It doesn't map onto my own Picard takes 1:1, but it addresses most of my issues with it. I looked up some of my S3 comments here, and while I probably enjoyed the season more than she did, I also had a problem with the completely unaddressed fallout from the mind control murder spree at the end (and the nostalgia overload, and the world's most 35-year-old 20-year-old, but it was the jump from an extremely traumatic mass event to jokes about the carpet on the Enterprise that finally soured me on the season). I was also disappointed that they killed off Shaw -- not just because I liked the character (although I did), but because what happened to Shaw underlined how disposable most of the new characters introduced in the series were.
I don't think I commented on S1 or S2 at all -- I mostly disliked them. However, I was still mad that the new characters from these seasons (except Raffi) were so unceremoniously written out. I would have been less mad about it in principle if this had been an anthology series, with each season combining Picard with a completely different ensemble cast -- but that's not what we got, and my general impression is that this series was created by a very argumentative committee, which resulted in a completely incoherent story (both within each season and between seasons).
posted by confluency at 3:05 PM on August 25 [2 favorites]
I don't think I commented on S1 or S2 at all -- I mostly disliked them. However, I was still mad that the new characters from these seasons (except Raffi) were so unceremoniously written out. I would have been less mad about it in principle if this had been an anthology series, with each season combining Picard with a completely different ensemble cast -- but that's not what we got, and my general impression is that this series was created by a very argumentative committee, which resulted in a completely incoherent story (both within each season and between seasons).
posted by confluency at 3:05 PM on August 25 [2 favorites]
Re Stashwick/Shaw: I wouldn't put too much effort into watching S3 again just to see him. A Youtube search shows virtually all his scenes in the series. Shaw reminds us of how much fun ST can be when the Captain is chronically unable to put up with your bunk (for most values of 'you' and many inappropriate visceral values of 'bunk'). I'm also gratified to learn of his widespread popularity among ST fandom. Now him I wouldn't mind coming back in-universe as an android or transporter accident leftover.
Also:
Metafilter: For most values of 'you' and many inappropriate visceral values of 'bunk'.
posted by zaixfeep at 3:27 PM on August 25 [4 favorites]
Also:
Metafilter: For most values of 'you' and many inappropriate visceral values of 'bunk'.
posted by zaixfeep at 3:27 PM on August 25 [4 favorites]
thinking once again about season two of Picard
trying to imagine someone being asked to imagine a TNG episode that was somehow both a Q episode and a time travel episode, and their only feedback being "sounds great already, but can it also be nine hours long"
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:52 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
trying to imagine someone being asked to imagine a TNG episode that was somehow both a Q episode and a time travel episode, and their only feedback being "sounds great already, but can it also be nine hours long"
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:52 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
I agree with everything she said. I hate to see torture and rape and (I'll add one) body horror in Star Trek because it's just lazy writing by people who don't get the show.
Torture is the entire basis of one of the best-regarded episodes of all time (TNG’s “Chain of Command”), and body horror has been a core element of Trek shows ever since the first season of TOS.
All three can be (and have been) done badly by plenty of lazy writers, but let’s not pretend that they’re somehow symptomatic of people “not understanding the show” when its original creator regularly went all in with them.
posted by Molten Berle at 6:17 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
Torture is the entire basis of one of the best-regarded episodes of all time (TNG’s “Chain of Command”), and body horror has been a core element of Trek shows ever since the first season of TOS.
All three can be (and have been) done badly by plenty of lazy writers, but let’s not pretend that they’re somehow symptomatic of people “not understanding the show” when its original creator regularly went all in with them.
posted by Molten Berle at 6:17 PM on August 25 [3 favorites]
(or in DS9’s case, “what ship came out of the wormhole this week”)
Well, that’s just not true. Like, I agree with your larger point, but wow, that was not DS9, like at all
posted by rhymedirective at 7:34 PM on August 25 [4 favorites]
Well, that’s just not true. Like, I agree with your larger point, but wow, that was not DS9, like at all
posted by rhymedirective at 7:34 PM on August 25 [4 favorites]
Torture is the entire basis of one of the best-regarded episodes of all time
You know, "Chain of Command," is the exception which proves the rule as far as I am concerned. And anyway, I was just agreeing with the lady in the video. She managed to crystalize my thoughts about Nu Trek exactly. If the story is good and those violent elements service the story, then okay. Otherwise it's just a turn off.
posted by jabah at 8:08 PM on August 25 [2 favorites]
You know, "Chain of Command," is the exception which proves the rule as far as I am concerned. And anyway, I was just agreeing with the lady in the video. She managed to crystalize my thoughts about Nu Trek exactly. If the story is good and those violent elements service the story, then okay. Otherwise it's just a turn off.
posted by jabah at 8:08 PM on August 25 [2 favorites]
Like, I agree with your larger point, but wow, that was not DS9, like at all
Oh yeah, I was being super reductive there for reasons that only made sense to pre-coffee me (though to be fair “we found a weird thing from/in the gamma quadrant” was a common DS9 plot even after the Dominion War act began in earnest—they had 25 episodes a season to deliver, after all).
I think my point was that there was still a “problem of the week” on DS9 in each episode. The serialized episodes still stand on their own dramatically, where the conclusion of one episode sets up the next but they remain tonally and dramatically distinct. The final ten hours are technically serialized but the way the show shifts, say, from Klingon succession in “Tacking Into the Wind” to the Section 31 stuff in “Extreme Measures” is still way different from the approach Stream Trek has taken when building a season around a single plot. You can watch any one of those episodes on their own and feel satisfied in a way you can’t if you watch a random episode of Discovery or Picard.
posted by thecaddy at 8:13 PM on August 25 [1 favorite]
Oh yeah, I was being super reductive there for reasons that only made sense to pre-coffee me (though to be fair “we found a weird thing from/in the gamma quadrant” was a common DS9 plot even after the Dominion War act began in earnest—they had 25 episodes a season to deliver, after all).
I think my point was that there was still a “problem of the week” on DS9 in each episode. The serialized episodes still stand on their own dramatically, where the conclusion of one episode sets up the next but they remain tonally and dramatically distinct. The final ten hours are technically serialized but the way the show shifts, say, from Klingon succession in “Tacking Into the Wind” to the Section 31 stuff in “Extreme Measures” is still way different from the approach Stream Trek has taken when building a season around a single plot. You can watch any one of those episodes on their own and feel satisfied in a way you can’t if you watch a random episode of Discovery or Picard.
posted by thecaddy at 8:13 PM on August 25 [1 favorite]
Like, I loved Shaw, but you either need to keep him completely antagonistic OR move him from an antagonist to a grumpy ally across five acts in a single episode. Picard S3 tried to spread it over a few episodes and it felt forced and drawn out. That’s what I mean when I say the show isn’t built for single season plot lines.
posted by thecaddy at 8:23 PM on August 25 [2 favorites]
posted by thecaddy at 8:23 PM on August 25 [2 favorites]
Chabon showed a deep understanding of Star Trek
No, just no.
posted by Pendragon at 3:36 AM on August 26 [2 favorites]
No, just no.
posted by Pendragon at 3:36 AM on August 26 [2 favorites]
I thought Season 1 of Picard explored something interesting about the character -- the flip side of the character traits that made him an effective officer in TNG, and forcing him to confront his failures. Didn't need Season 2 or 3. Given how adamant Patrick Stewart claimed to be about not reprising the character unless it was something different, it was always strange to me that it wasn't a one-and-done miniseries.
posted by AndrewInDC at 6:39 AM on August 26 [3 favorites]
posted by AndrewInDC at 6:39 AM on August 26 [3 favorites]
I watched/listened to Collier's Picard summary over the weekend, prior to finding this thread. I only watched season 1 of Picard, for my sins. It left me with no desire to watch any more, I am pretty sure I slept through some of it, but how would I know? I certainly enjoyed Collier's video considerably more than any part, or all of Picard in aggregate.
To me it seemed to be made by people whose ethos seemed to be copied from the worst silicon valley has to offer:
Understand nothing about something
Disrupt it
???
Profit
As Collier points out, the stories in these series of Picard were reheated previous stories, mashed together and made more boring, while undermining the spirit of Star Trek S1 and TNG. The vibe of Picard series 1 certainly seemed to resemble Star Wars Ep1 more than any Star Trek , in that it was green screen, low interest and excessively nasty action sequences, followed by people sat around talking. Absolutely terrible writing and no attempt to tell the story visually rather than by repetitive exposition. I hadn't noticed how awful the music choices are, but they are also awful. The whole thing so utterly lacking in humanity.
I found it entirely plausible that they decided series 2 was DOA, so they started filming series 3 at the same time, and reduced series 2 episodes to 35 minutes of new material per episode. They allowed Patrick Stewart to contribute to the story, which seems to have been a mistake amongst so many other mistakes that it the scheme of things that decision is swamped. But at least they recognised it was a bad one.
The decision to change how the computer screens on the space ships looked from series 2 to 3 also seems like they recognised that the floating transparent screens were a bad idea. Or maybe it was just a money saving ruse, as Collier suggests. Either way it is one of the many ways that the different series are weirdly disjointed.
Another classic title milking the fans it seems the creators simultaneously hate and know they cannot survive without. I am not a dedicated enough Star Trek fan to be within that set, so I don't feel as sullied as I would if I actually had more invested in Star Trek, but I did feel like I needed a deep cleanse after watching Picard.
posted by asok at 3:09 PM on August 27 [3 favorites]
To me it seemed to be made by people whose ethos seemed to be copied from the worst silicon valley has to offer:
Understand nothing about something
Disrupt it
???
Profit
As Collier points out, the stories in these series of Picard were reheated previous stories, mashed together and made more boring, while undermining the spirit of Star Trek S1 and TNG. The vibe of Picard series 1 certainly seemed to resemble Star Wars Ep1 more than any Star Trek , in that it was green screen, low interest and excessively nasty action sequences, followed by people sat around talking. Absolutely terrible writing and no attempt to tell the story visually rather than by repetitive exposition. I hadn't noticed how awful the music choices are, but they are also awful. The whole thing so utterly lacking in humanity.
I found it entirely plausible that they decided series 2 was DOA, so they started filming series 3 at the same time, and reduced series 2 episodes to 35 minutes of new material per episode. They allowed Patrick Stewart to contribute to the story, which seems to have been a mistake amongst so many other mistakes that it the scheme of things that decision is swamped. But at least they recognised it was a bad one.
The decision to change how the computer screens on the space ships looked from series 2 to 3 also seems like they recognised that the floating transparent screens were a bad idea. Or maybe it was just a money saving ruse, as Collier suggests. Either way it is one of the many ways that the different series are weirdly disjointed.
Another classic title milking the fans it seems the creators simultaneously hate and know they cannot survive without. I am not a dedicated enough Star Trek fan to be within that set, so I don't feel as sullied as I would if I actually had more invested in Star Trek, but I did feel like I needed a deep cleanse after watching Picard.
posted by asok at 3:09 PM on August 27 [3 favorites]
Prodigy managed to tell season-long stories for both of its seasons. S1 started slow, but once they found the Protostar, it picked up. I think that it helped that the writers knew what the (eventual) threat was, and how they were going to solve it. Also, it helped that it was highly episodic, with many of the episodes being mostly stand alone.
posted by Spike Glee at 10:39 AM on August 29 [2 favorites]
posted by Spike Glee at 10:39 AM on August 29 [2 favorites]
I came out of this video liking Patrick Stewart less for the conceit given to S2, but if it was Covid Lockdown, no writers' room and they had to make something ... that's a tough set of choices during a global crisis.
Does it meet the "Trek that makes you think about being a better person" criterion? Not adequately, but I'm going to give Patrick Stewart a pass.
The wider problem with the Star Trek space is both us-the-fanbase and the lack of visionary leadership for what kind of stories might be told in a successful space-faring community.
In terms of places to tell stories, I prefer The Culture and Contact section/Special Circumstances way ahead of needing to make post-scarcity scarce again* with Section 31 spies, breaking dilithium as if it's expendable fuel and breaking warp travel with psionics. Then there's having so many crises stacked on top of each other, the robot slave uprising of Picard S1 happening about the same time-window as Prodigy S1 ship hijack thingy and the Picard S3 borgification thing all look like weak attempts to create high-stakes worldbuilding events. Star Trek both is and isn't a soap opera, I expect more from the setting, characters and storytelling.
*: hat with this slogan due in merch store any day now
posted by k3ninho at 9:44 AM on August 30 [1 favorite]
Does it meet the "Trek that makes you think about being a better person" criterion? Not adequately, but I'm going to give Patrick Stewart a pass.
The wider problem with the Star Trek space is both us-the-fanbase and the lack of visionary leadership for what kind of stories might be told in a successful space-faring community.
In terms of places to tell stories, I prefer The Culture and Contact section/Special Circumstances way ahead of needing to make post-scarcity scarce again* with Section 31 spies, breaking dilithium as if it's expendable fuel and breaking warp travel with psionics. Then there's having so many crises stacked on top of each other, the robot slave uprising of Picard S1 happening about the same time-window as Prodigy S1 ship hijack thingy and the Picard S3 borgification thing all look like weak attempts to create high-stakes worldbuilding events. Star Trek both is and isn't a soap opera, I expect more from the setting, characters and storytelling.
*: hat with this slogan due in merch store any day now
posted by k3ninho at 9:44 AM on August 30 [1 favorite]
I came out of this video liking Patrick Stewart less for the conceit given to S2
I initially found the level of criticism levelled against Patrick Stewart personally to be jarring, because my general impression has always been that Patrick Stewart is a Good Guy, but
0) I know I shouldn't idolise public figures; they're just people.
1) While Patrick Stewart may genuinely be a Good Guy (and have made important contributions to multiple good causes), it looks like he was at least partially responsible for some terrible creative choices (possibly because he was a little too invested in shoehorning one1 of those good causes into the show), and he's not immune from criticism about that.
1. I knew before that he had insisted on Picard having a pet pit bull, because pit bull rescue is one of his good causes, but that bit was perfectly fine.
posted by confluency at 4:18 AM on August 31 [1 favorite]
I initially found the level of criticism levelled against Patrick Stewart personally to be jarring, because my general impression has always been that Patrick Stewart is a Good Guy, but
0) I know I shouldn't idolise public figures; they're just people.
1) While Patrick Stewart may genuinely be a Good Guy (and have made important contributions to multiple good causes), it looks like he was at least partially responsible for some terrible creative choices (possibly because he was a little too invested in shoehorning one1 of those good causes into the show), and he's not immune from criticism about that.
1. I knew before that he had insisted on Picard having a pet pit bull, because pit bull rescue is one of his good causes, but that bit was perfectly fine.
posted by confluency at 4:18 AM on August 31 [1 favorite]
he was at least partially responsible for some terrible creative choices
his bit from Extras can't help but spring to mind
posted by BungaDunga at 10:49 AM on August 31
his bit from Extras can't help but spring to mind
posted by BungaDunga at 10:49 AM on August 31
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posted by lalochezia at 1:07 PM on August 24 [5 favorites]