Reefer Madness
September 2, 2024 11:16 AM Subscribe
The high that most adult weed smokers remember from their teenage years is most likely one produced by “mids,” as in, middle-tier weed. In the pre-legalization era, unless you had a connection with access to top-shelf strains such as Purple Haze and Sour Diesel, you probably had to settle for mids (or, one step down, “reggie,” as in regular weed) most of the time. Today, mids are hard to come by. The simplest explanation for this is that the casual smokers who pine for the mids and reggies of their youth aren’t the industry’s top customers. Serious stoners are. from Marijuana Is Too Strong Now [The Atlantic; ungated]
Absolutely. As a verrrrry late in life stoner, weed is undergoing the same phase that craft beer was a decade or so ago in that the higher the ABV, the more insane the buzz. THC percentages are stupidly high and they don't need to be. I frequent r/TheOCS to ask for recs for eighths and pretty across the board, all flower is clocking at 23+% THC. You can get still a few decent mids here but they are in few and far between. If there's anything I've learned in weed experience is that there are stoners, and then are stoners. (Mostly white dudes who make more than I do, but they are the industry's main target.)
Also, I would really like the usage of the word "marijuana" to cease. No need to use a term with racist connotations. We have so many cooler ones for weed!
posted by Kitteh at 11:24 AM on September 2 [13 favorites]
Also, I would really like the usage of the word "marijuana" to cease. No need to use a term with racist connotations. We have so many cooler ones for weed!
posted by Kitteh at 11:24 AM on September 2 [13 favorites]
MetaFilter - the weed is too damn high!
posted by zaixfeep at 11:27 AM on September 2 [41 favorites]
posted by zaixfeep at 11:27 AM on September 2 [41 favorites]
Yes, smoking less is better for you but having to thread a needle between pleasantly high and paranoia blitzed while smoking sucks. Also there is a ritualistic enjoyment to smoking a joint, there's much less of one up lighting it, putting it out, coming back an hour later to repeat.
Just sell low potency stuff!
posted by Ferreous at 11:34 AM on September 2 [30 favorites]
Just sell low potency stuff!
posted by Ferreous at 11:34 AM on September 2 [30 favorites]
I can’t smoke little enough of strong weed for it to work effectively. A single hit causes the heart palpitations and nausea. Whatever they’ve done to amp up the THC levels has unbalanced it so badly (by reducing all the other cannabanoid levels) that most commercial weed is medically unsafe for me now. The only pot I’ve enjoyed smoking in the past ten years without getting nausea or palps was someone’s hobby-homegrown, a bag of classic pre-legalization weed from a 90s strain that had never been refined into today’s modern THC-at-all-costs nonsense, and a bag of someone’s cross of the classic blue dream strain with a low-THC strain that came out at 8% balanced. It really sucks what’s happened to pot. It’s all Everclear now.
posted by Callisto Prime at 11:39 AM on September 2 [21 favorites]
posted by Callisto Prime at 11:39 AM on September 2 [21 favorites]
it all still works well enough for me, though perhaps that's what spending the past half century in the land of BC-BUD does to one.
posted by philip-random at 11:45 AM on September 2 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 11:45 AM on September 2 [1 favorite]
I hate this trend. It’s like world where the only alcohol you can get is 150 proof. No beer, no wine, no mixed drinks.
I understand that there is a market for stronger and stronger pot. Whether that is safe is its own question. But you’d think producers would want have a variety of products reflecting the variety of consumers.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 11:46 AM on September 2 [14 favorites]
I understand that there is a market for stronger and stronger pot. Whether that is safe is its own question. But you’d think producers would want have a variety of products reflecting the variety of consumers.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 11:46 AM on September 2 [14 favorites]
People I know who have this problem have gone to consumables. Much less intense high and also much easier to regulate. Not as "ritualistic" but oh well...
But those people also have the problem where they take the first one, don't think anything's happening, and take another. Not knowing it takes as much as 30-45 min for the effects.
posted by aleph at 11:52 AM on September 2 [12 favorites]
But those people also have the problem where they take the first one, don't think anything's happening, and take another. Not knowing it takes as much as 30-45 min for the effects.
posted by aleph at 11:52 AM on September 2 [12 favorites]
Also, I would really like the usage of the word "marijuana" to cease. No need to use a term with racist connotations.
First I've heard of this. A quick bit of digging got me to this
Why some people believe ‘marijuana’ is a racist word, and why it doesn’t offend me
Latin American History Professor Isaac Campos recently published findings online of his study on the history of cannabis terminology
From toward the end of the piece:
Bottom line: He said the claim that politicians intentionally popularized the term during prohibition is false — because the word was being used decades before then in the United States. And in his view, people shouldn’t have a problem using “marijuana.” In fact, erasing the word brings its own problems.
In conclusion, I'm going to continue to focus my energies on bringing down Capitalism.
posted by philip-random at 11:52 AM on September 2 [57 favorites]
First I've heard of this. A quick bit of digging got me to this
Why some people believe ‘marijuana’ is a racist word, and why it doesn’t offend me
Latin American History Professor Isaac Campos recently published findings online of his study on the history of cannabis terminology
From toward the end of the piece:
Bottom line: He said the claim that politicians intentionally popularized the term during prohibition is false — because the word was being used decades before then in the United States. And in his view, people shouldn’t have a problem using “marijuana.” In fact, erasing the word brings its own problems.
In conclusion, I'm going to continue to focus my energies on bringing down Capitalism.
posted by philip-random at 11:52 AM on September 2 [57 favorites]
Since moving to a rec-legal state I’ve been trying various strains like a kid in a candy store.
Yes, weed is stronger now.
Solution: micro dosing with a terpsicle or dynavap. I hate combustion now (have not combusted weed since I discovered dry herb vaporizers). Smaller bowls, people. You don’t have to take huge rips. Sip and chill.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 11:55 AM on September 2 [12 favorites]
Yes, weed is stronger now.
Solution: micro dosing with a terpsicle or dynavap. I hate combustion now (have not combusted weed since I discovered dry herb vaporizers). Smaller bowls, people. You don’t have to take huge rips. Sip and chill.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 11:55 AM on September 2 [12 favorites]
Smaller bowls, people. You don’t have to take huge rips. Sip and chill.
Exactly. A couple of evening sips from my Pax and I'm perfectly good. Not interested in flying to the moon. Also, a couple of grams last forEVer.
posted by vverse23 at 11:59 AM on September 2 [8 favorites]
Exactly. A couple of evening sips from my Pax and I'm perfectly good. Not interested in flying to the moon. Also, a couple of grams last forEVer.
posted by vverse23 at 11:59 AM on September 2 [8 favorites]
I think if you have to time your vape dose to tenths of a second, it's too damn strong. I also don't remember in previous decades smelling weed in the car in front of me, both cars having their windows up.
I also question the logic of 9.5% ABV tallboys being cheaper than 0.5% near-beer.
In other words: Get off my lawn, which is a cross of Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent, and Northern California Sensemilia.
posted by credulous at 12:02 PM on September 2 [22 favorites]
I also question the logic of 9.5% ABV tallboys being cheaper than 0.5% near-beer.
In other words: Get off my lawn, which is a cross of Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent, and Northern California Sensemilia.
posted by credulous at 12:02 PM on September 2 [22 favorites]
It certainly smells a lot stronger now. I was never a pothead, but the smell of pot was not unpleasant when I was a kid in the '90s. Pot now is incredibly rank, and the smell of it lands right in my gut and makes me want to puke. I truly hate it.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:03 PM on September 2 [24 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 12:03 PM on September 2 [24 favorites]
As a woman of Mexican descent, not all Latin Americans are a monolith. I find it offensive personally but then I have family who are routinely discriminated against.
posted by Kitteh at 12:03 PM on September 2 [11 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 12:03 PM on September 2 [11 favorites]
Would gummies work? Or is the high produced very different?
posted by Czjewel at 12:10 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
posted by Czjewel at 12:10 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
(It is specifically Pax’s dry leaf vaporizer that helped me confirm that 151 proof pot was the cause of my various issues.)
posted by Callisto Prime at 12:11 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
posted by Callisto Prime at 12:11 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
I can cope with top-tier gummies in the <10mg range; they’re not swell, but at least I now have one functioning solution.
posted by Callisto Prime at 12:12 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
posted by Callisto Prime at 12:12 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
Stronger weed means you smoke less to get where you want to go.
The problem is that, quite often, one hit can floor a person these days. I've been doing weed, off and on, since high school (well before most of y'all were born) and today's stuff is just nuts as far as potency goes. It's a lot like just wanting a refreshing, well-made craft beer, but all that's on-tap are triple-imperial stouts.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:14 PM on September 2 [16 favorites]
The problem is that, quite often, one hit can floor a person these days. I've been doing weed, off and on, since high school (well before most of y'all were born) and today's stuff is just nuts as far as potency goes. It's a lot like just wanting a refreshing, well-made craft beer, but all that's on-tap are triple-imperial stouts.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:14 PM on September 2 [16 favorites]
Per the article, increasing potency is driven (or at least unchecked) by the lack of federal regulation, prohibitions against home growers, and concentration of the industry into a few larger corporate players. Capitalism is bad and so is the Federal government is not a surprising conclusion I guess.
I come recently to weed and am a very modest user and would appreciate lower intensity weed. I literally take one small hit or take a quarter of a gummy and feel extremely high for the evening. The worst for me is the munchies which are extreme. I've asked at a few dispensaries for any strains that may limit my munchies without success.
As a nurse I encounter patients experiencing debilitating Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome and I definitely work with patients who have a relationship with cannabis that from my point of view appear to be a harmful dependency (weed use gets in the way of functional relationships, jobs, or physical well being).
Like any disorder, it's more that it's driven by social ills and cannabis is the way some folks manage that, but especially for teens it does seem concerning to have such easy access to high potency weed.
posted by latkes at 12:24 PM on September 2 [18 favorites]
I come recently to weed and am a very modest user and would appreciate lower intensity weed. I literally take one small hit or take a quarter of a gummy and feel extremely high for the evening. The worst for me is the munchies which are extreme. I've asked at a few dispensaries for any strains that may limit my munchies without success.
As a nurse I encounter patients experiencing debilitating Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome and I definitely work with patients who have a relationship with cannabis that from my point of view appear to be a harmful dependency (weed use gets in the way of functional relationships, jobs, or physical well being).
Like any disorder, it's more that it's driven by social ills and cannabis is the way some folks manage that, but especially for teens it does seem concerning to have such easy access to high potency weed.
posted by latkes at 12:24 PM on September 2 [18 favorites]
Honestly my biggest problem is that I get vapes/concentrates as my roomie has issues with regular weed. Even the "high" potency weed is just like 25-30 (in ILL due to regulations, of course it could be bred higher - but no - artificial constraints).
Anyways, the point being, it's waaaaaaaaaay too easy to just suck on a vape, and get too stoned and dumb. I don't think it should be illegal, but that I should have a better system so it's not just "right there" and I have to exert effort to enjoy it. Not that it matters much these days, on WI UE rates, it's not like I have extra money to burn after all this inflation.
And my lungs are happier. I also don't "trust" vapes? Not that they're chemically bad, and even "live resin" isn't quite the same as smoking proper. IDK why.
That said DURBAN POISON if any of y'all have Inattentive ADHD. Since I can't get actual meds, this is the best I've found for energy/motivation and action. Other sativas don't hit the right spot.
This whole "this ain't your daddy's weed" hysteria is just drug war 2.0 talking points. As noted above, stronger weed means smoking less. Weed takes work and effort to pack a bowl (back in the day we even had to DE-BEAN our weed! Kids, these days. Good potent ganj AND sinsemilla or close to it?) Anyways, that extra effort also makes it a bit more to do than just "grab vape and inhale". I miss it, but I don't like the smoke (and I do have a dry flower vape but it also doesn't have the same impact, even on full heat; just not the same as straight up smoking.
posted by symbioid at 12:41 PM on September 2 [14 favorites]
Anyways, the point being, it's waaaaaaaaaay too easy to just suck on a vape, and get too stoned and dumb. I don't think it should be illegal, but that I should have a better system so it's not just "right there" and I have to exert effort to enjoy it. Not that it matters much these days, on WI UE rates, it's not like I have extra money to burn after all this inflation.
And my lungs are happier. I also don't "trust" vapes? Not that they're chemically bad, and even "live resin" isn't quite the same as smoking proper. IDK why.
That said DURBAN POISON if any of y'all have Inattentive ADHD. Since I can't get actual meds, this is the best I've found for energy/motivation and action. Other sativas don't hit the right spot.
This whole "this ain't your daddy's weed" hysteria is just drug war 2.0 talking points. As noted above, stronger weed means smoking less. Weed takes work and effort to pack a bowl (back in the day we even had to DE-BEAN our weed! Kids, these days. Good potent ganj AND sinsemilla or close to it?) Anyways, that extra effort also makes it a bit more to do than just "grab vape and inhale". I miss it, but I don't like the smoke (and I do have a dry flower vape but it also doesn't have the same impact, even on full heat; just not the same as straight up smoking.
posted by symbioid at 12:41 PM on September 2 [14 favorites]
Sorry to threadsit, but I do acknowledge latkes' point about CHS, as one particular reason to be concerned. I also don't know what role stronger pot plays in the claimed contribution to onset of schizophrenia in individuals who are prone to it, though that is a claim I am willing to entertain (the contribution) how strong the weed is, though is a good question. I also do agree that if there were proper functioning markets, there would be a market for lower intensity weed.
Sometimes though, I do wonder how many people are just assuming it's "weed" and not the specific strain. I had a friend who swore off weed for a long time because it was making her too manic, I asked "have you tried an indica" (no) - recently she was able to try a hybrid a friend had and she said it was perfect. Of course, trying a strain and seeing how it affects you is a big proposition when you're paying (ILL prices of 35+ 1/8th) easier to do in MI (though in the UP where I've bought from it's too much Indica because of the rustbelt/painkilling effects) They love Blue Dream it seems, but the sativas I found up there are "meh". OK shutting up now, kthxbye.
posted by symbioid at 12:48 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
Sometimes though, I do wonder how many people are just assuming it's "weed" and not the specific strain. I had a friend who swore off weed for a long time because it was making her too manic, I asked "have you tried an indica" (no) - recently she was able to try a hybrid a friend had and she said it was perfect. Of course, trying a strain and seeing how it affects you is a big proposition when you're paying (ILL prices of 35+ 1/8th) easier to do in MI (though in the UP where I've bought from it's too much Indica because of the rustbelt/painkilling effects) They love Blue Dream it seems, but the sativas I found up there are "meh". OK shutting up now, kthxbye.
posted by symbioid at 12:48 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter - the weed is too damn high!
And so am I!
posted by kirkaracha at 12:49 PM on September 2 [7 favorites]
And so am I!
posted by kirkaracha at 12:49 PM on September 2 [7 favorites]
For those of you in the pot industry, selling mids, or as we called it back in the day, Mexican ditch weed, is a gap in the market. Fill it and make some money!
Worth noting the difference between indica and sativa strains. Sativa is the "energy" strain, which, for me, puts my brain in overdrive and makes me want to go explore outside. But it also causes more paranoia. Indica, or "in-da-couch," is the chill, relaxing strain. Less paranoia, but can turn you into the stereotypical stoner, zoned out watching whatever's on TV. From what I recall, back in the 80s and 90s a lot of the weed you'd get was a blend of these two strains, though I'm sure it varied a lot. (I had no idea of these strains until about 10 years ago).
But yeah, the high potency of today's cannabis just means you can't pack a fat bowl like it was 1994. But it's not that hard to sip and not gulp. Vaping is ideal for me: no smoke, and you can get a very mild high, something I couldn't do easily when packing fat bowls in 1994.
posted by zardoz at 12:52 PM on September 2 [5 favorites]
Worth noting the difference between indica and sativa strains. Sativa is the "energy" strain, which, for me, puts my brain in overdrive and makes me want to go explore outside. But it also causes more paranoia. Indica, or "in-da-couch," is the chill, relaxing strain. Less paranoia, but can turn you into the stereotypical stoner, zoned out watching whatever's on TV. From what I recall, back in the 80s and 90s a lot of the weed you'd get was a blend of these two strains, though I'm sure it varied a lot. (I had no idea of these strains until about 10 years ago).
But yeah, the high potency of today's cannabis just means you can't pack a fat bowl like it was 1994. But it's not that hard to sip and not gulp. Vaping is ideal for me: no smoke, and you can get a very mild high, something I couldn't do easily when packing fat bowls in 1994.
posted by zardoz at 12:52 PM on September 2 [5 favorites]
I typically just smoke waaaaay less than I used to, which probably makes my lungs happy. But if I'm in the mood for a good ol' joint I'll mix the powerful weed with some CBD flower in whatever ratio seems appropriate for the occasion. The CBD mellows things out a bit, tastes nice, and allows me to enjoy an entire joint without basically going out of my mind.
posted by nixxon at 12:58 PM on September 2 [8 favorites]
posted by nixxon at 12:58 PM on September 2 [8 favorites]
I only take edibles, exactly 5mg THC in a gummy, so I know exactly what amount I'm getting. Any more than that and I'm too messed up.
posted by mike3k at 1:03 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
posted by mike3k at 1:03 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
I find that that I mostly smoke alone now in my old age. But back in the halcyon days of youth and relative weed scarcity, pot was very much a shared pastime. So I was first of all not smoking the whole joint, and secondly taking a small break as it passed around the room. This afforded a brief window of “kick in” so sometimes I’d realize I was getting too high and pass. Now I’m mostly just repeat hitting half or more of a joint or bowl and don’t realize until after how baked I am.
Not arguing against more choice for softer strains though. Gently mellow is nice.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:05 PM on September 2 [6 favorites]
Not arguing against more choice for softer strains though. Gently mellow is nice.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:05 PM on September 2 [6 favorites]
I love my daily dogwalker joint. That plus homemade edibles are my go to.
I have to admit, it's nice to have a mood booster that doesn't leave you hungover.
posted by Kitteh at 1:06 PM on September 2 [9 favorites]
I have to admit, it's nice to have a mood booster that doesn't leave you hungover.
posted by Kitteh at 1:06 PM on September 2 [9 favorites]
Louis Armstrong revealed to a biographer that he smoked marijuana everyday of his professional career, if it's good enough for Louis Armstrong it's good enough for me.
If you find a strain of marijuana that makes you paranoid that's the one you should smoke, appreciate that you're getting the good stuff.
Enjoy your fears ! Durban Poison originated in South Africa they're growing marijuana all over a ridge North of town and people realize that the marijuana coming from the east side of that ridge is profoundly stronger than t
hat on the west side of the ridge.
same marijuana different molecular biology in the soil .
I have no complaints about the marijuana ,
the industrialization of inebriation rubs me the wrong way I don't want to go into a secure guarded area and have to show identification I want to get marijuana at the farmers market from somebody I know who grows it but that's me.
All drug laws are racist at the core.
posted by hortense at 1:08 PM on September 2 [9 favorites]
If you find a strain of marijuana that makes you paranoid that's the one you should smoke, appreciate that you're getting the good stuff.
Enjoy your fears ! Durban Poison originated in South Africa they're growing marijuana all over a ridge North of town and people realize that the marijuana coming from the east side of that ridge is profoundly stronger than t
hat on the west side of the ridge.
same marijuana different molecular biology in the soil .
I have no complaints about the marijuana ,
the industrialization of inebriation rubs me the wrong way I don't want to go into a secure guarded area and have to show identification I want to get marijuana at the farmers market from somebody I know who grows it but that's me.
All drug laws are racist at the core.
posted by hortense at 1:08 PM on September 2 [9 favorites]
It's been years since I've smoked for this reason. But, fun fact for those of you who miss the ritual of smoking a joint and not going out of your mind: mint is smokable, and you can make any strength joint you want by cutting with dried mint from the supermarket. I also used lavender sometimes. Hope this helps someone out!
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 1:08 PM on September 2 [6 favorites]
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 1:08 PM on September 2 [6 favorites]
I can’t smoke little enough of strong weed for it to work effectively.
Saaaame. I had a really rough couple of hours from one too-big hit from a vape, my first time trying anything but gummies in many years. Screw this new science weed, man. Somebody start producing Ultra Lights.
Gummies can at least be cut up into little tiny bits.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:12 PM on September 2 [4 favorites]
Saaaame. I had a really rough couple of hours from one too-big hit from a vape, my first time trying anything but gummies in many years. Screw this new science weed, man. Somebody start producing Ultra Lights.
Gummies can at least be cut up into little tiny bits.
posted by Lyn Never at 1:12 PM on September 2 [4 favorites]
*shrug* I'm in my fifties and didn't start smoking weed until the mid-00s and aside from the usual "this edible sure is taking forever, let me hit the bong, oh no now I am way too high" mistakes that I'm sure everyone makes, I find it pretty easy to manage my high? I also don't smoke entire joints, never have, that's a whole lot of weed for one go. I just take a pinch out of the grinder, drop it in the bong's bowl, and hit it.
On preview though BuddhaInABucket's suggestion of cutting it with mint or lavender sounds kind of delightful and now I want to get some rolling papers and try that. Or maybe just mix some ground lavender in the bowl with the weed.
posted by egypturnash at 1:14 PM on September 2 [5 favorites]
On preview though BuddhaInABucket's suggestion of cutting it with mint or lavender sounds kind of delightful and now I want to get some rolling papers and try that. Or maybe just mix some ground lavender in the bowl with the weed.
posted by egypturnash at 1:14 PM on September 2 [5 favorites]
LED lighting being a thing now means that growing a plant or two indoors has never been easier nor cost so little.
I have found, to my considerable surprise, that it's possible to get a very serviceable music-making stone off nothing more than the continuously available supply of leaf and stem trimmings needed to keep indoor plants manageable through winter. The trick is to cook the trimmings gently in a generous amount of oil, pressing them down gently with a non-absorbent spatula or the back of a spoon until limp enough to sink down into the oil puddle and stay there. Keep frying until completely dried out and all the frying noises have stopped, then hold that temperature for another five minutes or so until the mess looks more brown than green, then cook something else on top of that hot oil and mix all the crisped-up trimmings through it.
The point of this initial heating step is to decarboxylate the precursor chemicals that are all that the plant actually makes, turning them into the psychoactive cannabinoids we enjoy. You don't want to actually burn the plant material and you don't want the oil anywhere near hot enough to smoke. It should not get far above the boiling point of water. Gentle heat is the go. Don't turn the burner up until you need to for cooking everything else in the pot.
There's a lot of lore about decarbing and oil extractions. Doing a separate decarbing step in a temperature-controlled oven is often recommended, or in a pressure cooker (the reaction is entirely heat-driven, and works best at a few tens of degrees above water's free-air boiling point). Most guides also recommend grinding the plant material after decarbing so as to get as much surface area exposed to the extraction oil as possible. I can't be arsed doing any of that because my process involves incorporating all of the weed that I just cooked plus all of the oil I cooked it in into whatever I then cook on top of it (which usually starts with onions, garlic, mushrooms and green capsicum and then branches out in various directions). If I'm just going to eat the whole fry-up anyway, working hard to separate plant material from infusing oil seems pretty pointless.
The stone from a meal prepared this way comes on slow - first signs for me are about an hour and a half after eating - and can last anywhere from four hours to a day and a half depending on various factors that I'll leave you to experiment with on your own (mostly about how much dietary fibre is in the rest of the ingredients). It's a noticeably slower release than I've ever had from edibles prepared using "proper" oil extractions and the high is more complex and interesting as well.
People often say that cooked weed tastes disgusting, but it seems to me that people say that mostly because people say that. It's a herb, and it has a distinctive taste that I strongly recommend acquiring.
I first started doing this because I have strong objections to wasting things, and disposing of the trimmings just seemed so wasteful. Now they waste me! And the best part is that they can keep on doing that, on demand, for as long as I care to keep my plants in vegetation phase by giving them 18 hours of light per day; no need to wait for heads to form and mature.
That said, though, the buds off the plants that these started out as cuttings from are very nice. Not bash-you-over-the-back-of-the-skull strong, either. They're a pleasant-smelling flower and they make for a good-tasting smoke with a lovely nuanced high.
posted by flabdablet at 1:23 PM on September 2 [13 favorites]
I have found, to my considerable surprise, that it's possible to get a very serviceable music-making stone off nothing more than the continuously available supply of leaf and stem trimmings needed to keep indoor plants manageable through winter. The trick is to cook the trimmings gently in a generous amount of oil, pressing them down gently with a non-absorbent spatula or the back of a spoon until limp enough to sink down into the oil puddle and stay there. Keep frying until completely dried out and all the frying noises have stopped, then hold that temperature for another five minutes or so until the mess looks more brown than green, then cook something else on top of that hot oil and mix all the crisped-up trimmings through it.
The point of this initial heating step is to decarboxylate the precursor chemicals that are all that the plant actually makes, turning them into the psychoactive cannabinoids we enjoy. You don't want to actually burn the plant material and you don't want the oil anywhere near hot enough to smoke. It should not get far above the boiling point of water. Gentle heat is the go. Don't turn the burner up until you need to for cooking everything else in the pot.
There's a lot of lore about decarbing and oil extractions. Doing a separate decarbing step in a temperature-controlled oven is often recommended, or in a pressure cooker (the reaction is entirely heat-driven, and works best at a few tens of degrees above water's free-air boiling point). Most guides also recommend grinding the plant material after decarbing so as to get as much surface area exposed to the extraction oil as possible. I can't be arsed doing any of that because my process involves incorporating all of the weed that I just cooked plus all of the oil I cooked it in into whatever I then cook on top of it (which usually starts with onions, garlic, mushrooms and green capsicum and then branches out in various directions). If I'm just going to eat the whole fry-up anyway, working hard to separate plant material from infusing oil seems pretty pointless.
The stone from a meal prepared this way comes on slow - first signs for me are about an hour and a half after eating - and can last anywhere from four hours to a day and a half depending on various factors that I'll leave you to experiment with on your own (mostly about how much dietary fibre is in the rest of the ingredients). It's a noticeably slower release than I've ever had from edibles prepared using "proper" oil extractions and the high is more complex and interesting as well.
People often say that cooked weed tastes disgusting, but it seems to me that people say that mostly because people say that. It's a herb, and it has a distinctive taste that I strongly recommend acquiring.
I first started doing this because I have strong objections to wasting things, and disposing of the trimmings just seemed so wasteful. Now they waste me! And the best part is that they can keep on doing that, on demand, for as long as I care to keep my plants in vegetation phase by giving them 18 hours of light per day; no need to wait for heads to form and mature.
That said, though, the buds off the plants that these started out as cuttings from are very nice. Not bash-you-over-the-back-of-the-skull strong, either. They're a pleasant-smelling flower and they make for a good-tasting smoke with a lovely nuanced high.
posted by flabdablet at 1:23 PM on September 2 [13 favorites]
You've got to hold it in your lungs shorter, George.
posted by credulous at 1:33 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
posted by credulous at 1:33 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
This article surprised me, as apparently I've been living in a cannabis bubble where low THC products are pretty easy to come by. I used to use Get Sava (who mysteriously closed down without warning) and there were lots of low THC (often higher CBD) strains of flower available through them. Not sure if the fact that it was a woman-owned company was the difference, though I can see that being a factor (sometimes you just want your menstrual cramps to go away without being rendered completely loopy).
My local dispensary also has numerous flower products in the low 20% range- WeedMaps allows one to search by %THC so if that's something that operates where you live I highly recommend it. OGs Berkeley Patients Group, who have been serving patients with conditions like chronic pain for the last 25 years, also have flower with THC down into the teens. So I would look for shops that have medical marijuana history or are woman owned if you're trying to find low THC flower.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:38 PM on September 2 [14 favorites]
My local dispensary also has numerous flower products in the low 20% range- WeedMaps allows one to search by %THC so if that's something that operates where you live I highly recommend it. OGs Berkeley Patients Group, who have been serving patients with conditions like chronic pain for the last 25 years, also have flower with THC down into the teens. So I would look for shops that have medical marijuana history or are woman owned if you're trying to find low THC flower.
posted by oneirodynia at 1:38 PM on September 2 [14 favorites]
during Covid I grew two plants, snipped em to grow small, legally, infact no one knew because I have a balconey the size of a 17'×30' deck. The strain was a fairly tough 50/50. cost: 14 dollars. Legal because secure and out of sight. freedom to grow.
I'd say it was 19-21%. .02 CBD. but a high terpine this complimented the sativa.
4ozs for 14$. legal.
the 80s weed saw regs at about 8-11% mids 10-14%. at best. ( based on Michigan market) 1/8 cost five bucks, a quarter 10. an ounce 40.
is today's weed too strong, I think the concentrates added are. I've seen sour Diesel come out at like 28%. with the almost zero CBD level that s**** like rocket fuel, you want to clean your house or write a novel.
I got a free pre-roll won't say the brand but it's quite popular 0.5 g. eveled out at 46.83% THC. a 50/50 with diamond cut resin. two hits and JEET!
I guess the real question is moderation and intake of the product is more stable as far as safety of the product itself. decriminalization or legalization statewide did two things in my opinion, it regulated the market so the customer could get exactly what they wanted and with today's competition, the prices are quite low too.it took away a lot of pressure legally, economically, and time wise, you know, the weed...is innnnnn the bag.
no doubt Id be interesting to look at reports about how if you smoke the right marijuana that agrees with your body chemistry how one sees things more clear and tasks like cleaning the house or crafting or playing cards etc. but to do critical skills analytical, scientific work, heavy machinery astronauts or presidents my opinion it's still unclear.
posted by clavdivs at 1:41 PM on September 2 [5 favorites]
I'd say it was 19-21%. .02 CBD. but a high terpine this complimented the sativa.
4ozs for 14$. legal.
the 80s weed saw regs at about 8-11% mids 10-14%. at best. ( based on Michigan market) 1/8 cost five bucks, a quarter 10. an ounce 40.
is today's weed too strong, I think the concentrates added are. I've seen sour Diesel come out at like 28%. with the almost zero CBD level that s**** like rocket fuel, you want to clean your house or write a novel.
I got a free pre-roll won't say the brand but it's quite popular 0.5 g. eveled out at 46.83% THC. a 50/50 with diamond cut resin. two hits and JEET!
I guess the real question is moderation and intake of the product is more stable as far as safety of the product itself. decriminalization or legalization statewide did two things in my opinion, it regulated the market so the customer could get exactly what they wanted and with today's competition, the prices are quite low too.it took away a lot of pressure legally, economically, and time wise, you know, the weed...is innnnnn the bag.
no doubt Id be interesting to look at reports about how if you smoke the right marijuana that agrees with your body chemistry how one sees things more clear and tasks like cleaning the house or crafting or playing cards etc. but to do critical skills analytical, scientific work, heavy machinery astronauts or presidents my opinion it's still unclear.
posted by clavdivs at 1:41 PM on September 2 [5 favorites]
I remember a little while ago I looked across the room at one of the new custom strains for just a little too long and my unborn grandchildren are still high from it.
posted by Skrubly at 1:41 PM on September 2 [14 favorites]
posted by Skrubly at 1:41 PM on September 2 [14 favorites]
My ex-wife was wary of smoking substances to treat her chronic disease, and would make her own edibles or buy pre-made ones after medical/decrim/whatever you want to call it. I’ve never seen someone get so high from THC that they painfully projectile-vomit like she did, but apparently in these times of loud product it’s a thing. There is even a term for it: “scromiting,” a portmanteau of screaming and vomiting.
Meanwhile, I haven’t partaken of THC for over 20 years, and stories like these make me glad I stuck with crystal meth. Kidding.
posted by infinitewindow at 1:49 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
Meanwhile, I haven’t partaken of THC for over 20 years, and stories like these make me glad I stuck with crystal meth. Kidding.
posted by infinitewindow at 1:49 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
I would love a MeFi IRL with yall where we smoked out/edibled and talked about cannabis til the wee hours. :)
posted by riverlife at 1:50 PM on September 2 [11 favorites]
posted by riverlife at 1:50 PM on September 2 [11 favorites]
In Michigan, weed is hilariously cheap from the dispensaries. We also can grow our own, up to 12 or 13 plants.
We grew four or five plants that were "gifted" to us by my in-laws in 2021? We smoke it a few times a week and we haven't made a dent. The varieties we grew weren't anything too new and intense. Acapulco Gold and similar strains.
Most gummies sold now are in a pack of 10 and it contains 200mg of THC, or 20 per gummy. That is too much for the average consumer (me!) and we usually just cut em all in half when the bag is opened.
We have tried our hand at making edibles ourselves, but it just isn't worth the hassle when edibles are so, so cheap in Michigan.
We live on the west side of the state and I know that there have been issues with getting legal weed into Detroit, but there is no room, where we live, for a black market for illegal weed.
posted by toddforbid at 2:05 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
We grew four or five plants that were "gifted" to us by my in-laws in 2021? We smoke it a few times a week and we haven't made a dent. The varieties we grew weren't anything too new and intense. Acapulco Gold and similar strains.
Most gummies sold now are in a pack of 10 and it contains 200mg of THC, or 20 per gummy. That is too much for the average consumer (me!) and we usually just cut em all in half when the bag is opened.
We have tried our hand at making edibles ourselves, but it just isn't worth the hassle when edibles are so, so cheap in Michigan.
We live on the west side of the state and I know that there have been issues with getting legal weed into Detroit, but there is no room, where we live, for a black market for illegal weed.
posted by toddforbid at 2:05 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
I only take edibles, exactly 5mg THC in a gummy, so I know exactly what amount I'm getting.
I find 5mg way too high. It doesn't freak me out or anything, I just find myself incapable of doing anything but being a dope. My current trick is to half a 2mg gummy, wait about an hour until I'm feeling a very minor buzz, then try a toke or two of pretty strong sativa. I find it works very well.
posted by philip-random at 2:05 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
Here's something that is poorly understood that has changed my feelings about weed: Regular use is bad for your heart. Seriously, if you have any kind of elevated cardiac risk and you smoke more than moderate amounts on an occasional basis, you really need to cut back. If you have had a heart attack, you need to stop immediately. And THC itself makes your platelets "sticky", so don't just load up on THC products.
If you are indeed one of these daily user wake-and-bake types in the article and you aren't, like, twenty, I implore you to cut back. I know for true facts that people with cardiac risks can wake-and-bake until "you need some lifestyle changes" turns into "multiple very serious hospitalizations".
I say this in the middle of this thread only because this truly is not known by even most fairly medically-aware people and doctors are not always informed or informative on the subject. People truly do just think weed is basically harmless and sort of let that carry them from " a little sometimes is basically harmless" to "I am high almost all the time that I am not literally employed".
posted by Frowner at 2:16 PM on September 2 [16 favorites]
If you are indeed one of these daily user wake-and-bake types in the article and you aren't, like, twenty, I implore you to cut back. I know for true facts that people with cardiac risks can wake-and-bake until "you need some lifestyle changes" turns into "multiple very serious hospitalizations".
I say this in the middle of this thread only because this truly is not known by even most fairly medically-aware people and doctors are not always informed or informative on the subject. People truly do just think weed is basically harmless and sort of let that carry them from " a little sometimes is basically harmless" to "I am high almost all the time that I am not literally employed".
posted by Frowner at 2:16 PM on September 2 [16 favorites]
→
Canada may have done a lot of things wrong with cannabis legalization, but the federal regulation and labelling is excellent. A single 5 mg THC / trace CBD Indica edible gets me to "this is the best meal I've ever had / ever noticed just how comfortable these clothes are?" in about 30 minutes. Two of them get me to finding inanimate objects hilarious and turns any subway ride into La Jetée.
Sure beats the dogshit hash we got in Glasgow in the 90s. Sawdust? Boot-polish? Pine tar? Chlorpromazine? Sure: chuck 'em all in there.
posted by scruss at 2:29 PM on September 2 [6 favorites]
the lack of federal regulation
Canada may have done a lot of things wrong with cannabis legalization, but the federal regulation and labelling is excellent. A single 5 mg THC / trace CBD Indica edible gets me to "this is the best meal I've ever had / ever noticed just how comfortable these clothes are?" in about 30 minutes. Two of them get me to finding inanimate objects hilarious and turns any subway ride into La Jetée.
Sure beats the dogshit hash we got in Glasgow in the 90s. Sawdust? Boot-polish? Pine tar? Chlorpromazine? Sure: chuck 'em all in there.
posted by scruss at 2:29 PM on September 2 [6 favorites]
During the era of mids, I went to Amsterdam for the first time. I misunderstood some advice I was given about the prevalence of ripoff joints who sold weed mixed with tobacco. And so, I ordered the highest THC stuff the cafe had. Amsterdam seemed mountainous that night and the buildings were wobbly. It took me half an hour to figure out how to get food at an automat and I clutched it to my chest the entire way back to the hotel, convinced someone would snatch away my croquettes.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:43 PM on September 2 [6 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:43 PM on September 2 [6 favorites]
Back when I first started smoking in high school all we had was dried out pressed brick weed full of seeds. So when we got actual nugs for the first time it was a revelation. White Widow. At least that's what we called it I don't know if it was that strain or not. But if it wasn't brick weed it was White Widow.
I don't smoke much anymore but I tend to do alright with most commercial weed I can find in the store. The only time it was too much was when I smoked a bowl with an acquaintance who was a huge "If I'm awake I'm high" stoner. We had smoked and then went into a bar with a group of people. I realized pretty quickly that it was too much. I started thinking I knew what people were going to say in the conversation before the previous person had finished speaking. Like I was an observer watching a script being acted out. I ended up excusing myself and walking the Venice boardwalk back home (which can be weird enough sober during the day but in that state at night it was a lot to deal with). I've smoked a ton of weed in my life and have a good amount of experience with all the major psychedelics but that was something else.
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:58 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
I don't smoke much anymore but I tend to do alright with most commercial weed I can find in the store. The only time it was too much was when I smoked a bowl with an acquaintance who was a huge "If I'm awake I'm high" stoner. We had smoked and then went into a bar with a group of people. I realized pretty quickly that it was too much. I started thinking I knew what people were going to say in the conversation before the previous person had finished speaking. Like I was an observer watching a script being acted out. I ended up excusing myself and walking the Venice boardwalk back home (which can be weird enough sober during the day but in that state at night it was a lot to deal with). I've smoked a ton of weed in my life and have a good amount of experience with all the major psychedelics but that was something else.
posted by downtohisturtles at 2:58 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
Those aren't ripoff joints, they're spliffs! not fun if you're not a tobacco user, I've heard.
At least you avoided the smart shops. I bought some fancy mushrooms at one, and took the amount the salesperson recommended. I think he was fucking with me, because the wax museum was the most terrifying thing and then I was lucky to find my hotel so I could just watch weird TV and ride out the storm. In retrospect I think he suggested I take like 5 grams. I wasn't inexperienced, but yikes.
posted by nixxon at 3:01 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
At least you avoided the smart shops. I bought some fancy mushrooms at one, and took the amount the salesperson recommended. I think he was fucking with me, because the wax museum was the most terrifying thing and then I was lucky to find my hotel so I could just watch weird TV and ride out the storm. In retrospect I think he suggested I take like 5 grams. I wasn't inexperienced, but yikes.
posted by nixxon at 3:01 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
the last time I smoked weed (2017?) I took three hits & fifteen minutes later was freaking out & panic-texting taquito boyfriend because everything outside the car had stopped existing & I was completely alone in a Prius-shaped bubble in a dark black void
he came back from the farmhouse bathroom & tasked me with playing some music on my phone to calm me down while he drove us back, I put on the Stones "Gimme Shelter" animated lyrics video & went "HOLY SHIT THE PICTURES ARE MOVING, THIS IS JUST LIKE HARRY POTTER" before the one tiny non-high sliver of my brain reminded me that this was YouTube and it always worked like that, ya dummy
next day I went back to the farm to work my shift at the organic grocery & they were having a tiny psychic fair in the parking lot with sadly basically zero customers, so everyone was like "come get free reiki, come get a free aura reading, make it worth me having set up this booth"
aura reading lady took a photo of me with a chonky round 2000s-era webcam & went "JESUS FUCKIN CHRIST what did you do to your CHAKRAS, they are TERRIBLE," and I mean probably they were already like that due to various bad lifestyle choices, but you could also take it as 100% verified scientific evidence that the weed is too damn strong these days
posted by taquito sunrise at 3:04 PM on September 2 [16 favorites]
he came back from the farmhouse bathroom & tasked me with playing some music on my phone to calm me down while he drove us back, I put on the Stones "Gimme Shelter" animated lyrics video & went "HOLY SHIT THE PICTURES ARE MOVING, THIS IS JUST LIKE HARRY POTTER" before the one tiny non-high sliver of my brain reminded me that this was YouTube and it always worked like that, ya dummy
next day I went back to the farm to work my shift at the organic grocery & they were having a tiny psychic fair in the parking lot with sadly basically zero customers, so everyone was like "come get free reiki, come get a free aura reading, make it worth me having set up this booth"
aura reading lady took a photo of me with a chonky round 2000s-era webcam & went "JESUS FUCKIN CHRIST what did you do to your CHAKRAS, they are TERRIBLE," and I mean probably they were already like that due to various bad lifestyle choices, but you could also take it as 100% verified scientific evidence that the weed is too damn strong these days
posted by taquito sunrise at 3:04 PM on September 2 [16 favorites]
Smoking less is always good. Saves lungs. Saves money. Weed too strong? Don’t smoke as much of it
If you find a strain of marijuana that makes you paranoid that's the one you should smoke, appreciate that you're getting the good stuffAmerica! Where even the stoners are dour straitening Protestants about it
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 3:16 PM on September 2 [17 favorites]
I have questions about the noble weed and ingesting it, stains, percentage/grams, etc. Is it better to ask here, or post on AskMeFi?
posted by Ber at 3:29 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
posted by Ber at 3:29 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
you really need to cut back.
posted by Frowner at 4:16 PM on September 2
EPONYSTERICAL
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 3:31 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 4:16 PM on September 2
EPONYSTERICAL
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 3:31 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
Only partially related, but I was asked to take a drug test for a job here in CO. The very young HR lady was VERY careful to tell me that they were NOT needing a marijuana test, but that the contractor would not take it out, do they would just not look at it. She was so sweet and so worried for no reason because I almost never partake.
I haven't had bad experiences with over strong weed here the few times I have done it though, but possibly my hosts were giving me the kiddy menu stuff.
posted by emjaybee at 3:32 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
I haven't had bad experiences with over strong weed here the few times I have done it though, but possibly my hosts were giving me the kiddy menu stuff.
posted by emjaybee at 3:32 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
Go for it, Ber. I'm not a mod! Sorry if this isn't right! It feels germane.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 3:33 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 3:33 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
MetaFilter: no need to wait for heads to form and mature
posted by chavenet at 3:42 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 3:42 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
you really need to cut back.
posted by Frowner at 4:16 PM on September 2
EPONYSTERICAL
Did you think I just pulled my name out of a hat? I have been a frowner for many years now.
posted by Frowner at 3:47 PM on September 2 [16 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 4:16 PM on September 2
EPONYSTERICAL
Did you think I just pulled my name out of a hat? I have been a frowner for many years now.
posted by Frowner at 3:47 PM on September 2 [16 favorites]
smoking pot = yech!
posted by robbyrobs at 4:30 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
posted by robbyrobs at 4:30 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
Those aren't ripoff joints, they're spliffs!
You people smoke straight weed as the usual thing to do?! Good lord. A spliff = joint = the normal thing to roll here. I'm out of touch now but back when it was more my scene people would ask tobacco smokers for a couple of cigarettes or a plug of tobacco so that they could roll up later, you just didn't smoke straight weed, not outside of a bong anyway. I know more than one person that got hooked on tobacco this way. As a mostly non-smoker Indonesian Sampoerna clove cigarettes were my favourite mulling tobacco but they were a bit like lighting the end of a roll of carpet and puffing away, they left the lungs feeling a little heavy.
posted by deadwax at 4:34 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
You people smoke straight weed as the usual thing to do?! Good lord. A spliff = joint = the normal thing to roll here. I'm out of touch now but back when it was more my scene people would ask tobacco smokers for a couple of cigarettes or a plug of tobacco so that they could roll up later, you just didn't smoke straight weed, not outside of a bong anyway. I know more than one person that got hooked on tobacco this way. As a mostly non-smoker Indonesian Sampoerna clove cigarettes were my favourite mulling tobacco but they were a bit like lighting the end of a roll of carpet and puffing away, they left the lungs feeling a little heavy.
posted by deadwax at 4:34 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
In terms of legalisation, it looks more likely that tobacco will be illegal before weed is legal in Australia, we have a very influential and sanctimonious philosophy from some quarters that holds that maximum good is defined through living the longest and if something doesn't fit with that end it's at least frowned upon, taxed to buggery or flat out illegal. That we may be bored and lonely while living a long time is taken as irrelevant. That's not the most fleshed out exposition of AU culture in history but there's the kernel of a truth there, I think. I'm working on it.
Weed has in effect got more illegal here as it is now detected by roadside drug testing, possibly weeks after you partake, and it leads to losing your licence on the spot. There's no recourse, because it is of course illegal. Driving under the influence of 10mg of Valium is fine, because you probably have a prescription for that.
What I'd like to see is the growing of weed made legal but not the selling. Bartering fine, gifting fine, a blind eye to selling to friends etc. Keep capitalism out of it. I don't have my hopes up.
posted by deadwax at 4:47 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
Weed has in effect got more illegal here as it is now detected by roadside drug testing, possibly weeks after you partake, and it leads to losing your licence on the spot. There's no recourse, because it is of course illegal. Driving under the influence of 10mg of Valium is fine, because you probably have a prescription for that.
What I'd like to see is the growing of weed made legal but not the selling. Bartering fine, gifting fine, a blind eye to selling to friends etc. Keep capitalism out of it. I don't have my hopes up.
posted by deadwax at 4:47 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
No one's doing knife hits with the 35% chronic with me?
Pfft
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 5:01 PM on September 2 [6 favorites]
Pfft
posted by DeepSeaHaggis at 5:01 PM on September 2 [6 favorites]
I'm pretty sure that the reason I only rarely toke these days has little to do with the strength of the weed and more with the fact that I got old and just got tired of being high. No doubt it is stronger, though. 15 years ago named strains didn't get me fucked up after a hit or two even when I did go a good long while without smoking.
I used to smoke an absurd fuck ton of weed Like lighting cocaine habit levels of money on fire amounts. An ounce was a normal day. I did get real good at rolling blunts that weren't easily distinguishable from the original machine rolled cigar, though. One to get the day started, another for the road, one to get home, before and after dinner, another any time friends stopped by, when roomie got home, another before bed.
If I tried that today I'd choke to death on the smoke and find myself laying on the floor in a pool of my own drool.
posted by wierdo at 5:16 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
I used to smoke an absurd fuck ton of weed Like lighting cocaine habit levels of money on fire amounts. An ounce was a normal day. I did get real good at rolling blunts that weren't easily distinguishable from the original machine rolled cigar, though. One to get the day started, another for the road, one to get home, before and after dinner, another any time friends stopped by, when roomie got home, another before bed.
If I tried that today I'd choke to death on the smoke and find myself laying on the floor in a pool of my own drool.
posted by wierdo at 5:16 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
I have my legal five nearly ready to harvest. This year I tried splitting the difference--more or less--with two in my usual 25 gallon fabric pots and three in the ground (which is the first year I've tried it). The potted gals are modest: maybe two, two and a half feet at the most. Now the girls in the yard? They've hit seven feet easily. I find the difference between the two just so cool. I mean, cannabis is a dioecious plant, so that alone is pretty neat.
posted by Kitteh at 5:23 PM on September 2 [4 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 5:23 PM on September 2 [4 favorites]
Jumping down to comments due to Frowner's cautions. WAY over the top, in my experience. In fact, the amazing thing I found, cannabis works better to keep my blood pressure down than lisinopril. The platelet thing is worrisome. I have 2 stents these past 11 years or so.
posted by Goofyy at 5:32 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
posted by Goofyy at 5:32 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
enstonification?
posted by grumpybear69 at 5:50 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 5:50 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
No one's doing knife hits with the 35% chronic with me?
Over the years I’ve often jokingly wondered how young people would do knife hits since most ovens Im seeing are the kind with glass surfaces… but really I shouldn’t, with dry herb vapes, vape cart/pens, dab rigs, edibles, wax pens, etc… there’s even more ways to get high than ever.
What I really worry is that the stuff is way stronger than it was when I was younger. Am I now a boring adult?
posted by WaterAndPixels at 6:02 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
Over the years I’ve often jokingly wondered how young people would do knife hits since most ovens Im seeing are the kind with glass surfaces… but really I shouldn’t, with dry herb vapes, vape cart/pens, dab rigs, edibles, wax pens, etc… there’s even more ways to get high than ever.
What I really worry is that the stuff is way stronger than it was when I was younger. Am I now a boring adult?
posted by WaterAndPixels at 6:02 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
From an anonymous user:
Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome is real and it is awful. I’ve had it four times. For me it happens when I’ve been using every day (going chronic) for a while, months ish. Cannabis normally makes me hungry; something in that link between gut and cannabinoids flips and instead I get brutal stomach cramps and start vomiting. Then I keep vomiting. Then because I can’t eat, my body starts to metabolize stored fat, adding more cannabinoids into my system. So I keep vomiting. The constant stomach cramps and intermittent vomiting are a 10/10 on a pain scale: hence the portmanteau “scromiting”. I’ve gone to the ER each time in an ambulance. Regular and second-line IV antinauseants don’t work at all. IV opiates and deep hydration do (I was out of electrolytes so niche they’re not in regular hydration protocol). I have warded it off, once, with Gravol suppositories. The longest bout was six days of vomiting and two months of recovery.posted by travelingthyme at 6:09 PM on September 2 [7 favorites]
When I lived outside of Seattle 25 years ago, mid weed was called "The beasties" because it was presumed to be from across the border in BC.
But sure to heed Aceyalone's advice.
posted by Catblack at 6:11 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
But sure to heed Aceyalone's advice.
posted by Catblack at 6:11 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
With weed going from illegal to quasi-legal-depends-on-the-state, I’ve observed that there is tons of expertise about weed that is backed by surprisingly little hard data. There is lots of anecdata doing the heavy lifting, instead. While I agree that it isn’t the Devil’s Lettuce that we were led to believe growing up, I suspect in 10 years or so we’re going to start seeing what the real long-term effects are.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 6:19 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
posted by Big Al 8000 at 6:19 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
Jumping down to comments due to Frowner's cautions. WAY over the top, in my experience. In fact, the amazing thing I found, cannabis works better to keep my blood pressure down than lisinopril. The platelet thing is worrisome. I have 2 stents these past 11 years or so.
See now, that's what the person I know thought. Weed was relaxing, stress contributed to the heart troubles, etc. But it's not the blood pressure, it's the plaque and the sticky platelets (and smoking anything regularly is the major risk factor for stent thrombosis). Obviously everyone's situation is different, so it may well be that a person's particular heart health is well-managed, stents have been in place for years and are functioning well, etc and that this may be of no concern. But I can tell you that heavy, daily smoking is a risk factor and people should be aware of it; the person in question would definitely have cut back or quit before the [bad and truly dangerous medical events] instead of after had they known. My guess is that well-managed conditions that have been stable for an extended period are less concerning than recent ones.
I'm not trying to be a huge buzzkill here, actually; it's clear that weed is like anything else that is not that great for you that most people still like to have from time to time - I myself have had both chocolate and a cream sauce today, and no cardiologist recommends that. But the pre-legalization narrative was very much "weed is good and harmless and cures problems" and I think that was a lot truer when most people had less access and hence smoked less.
posted by Frowner at 6:35 PM on September 2 [5 favorites]
See now, that's what the person I know thought. Weed was relaxing, stress contributed to the heart troubles, etc. But it's not the blood pressure, it's the plaque and the sticky platelets (and smoking anything regularly is the major risk factor for stent thrombosis). Obviously everyone's situation is different, so it may well be that a person's particular heart health is well-managed, stents have been in place for years and are functioning well, etc and that this may be of no concern. But I can tell you that heavy, daily smoking is a risk factor and people should be aware of it; the person in question would definitely have cut back or quit before the [bad and truly dangerous medical events] instead of after had they known. My guess is that well-managed conditions that have been stable for an extended period are less concerning than recent ones.
I'm not trying to be a huge buzzkill here, actually; it's clear that weed is like anything else that is not that great for you that most people still like to have from time to time - I myself have had both chocolate and a cream sauce today, and no cardiologist recommends that. But the pre-legalization narrative was very much "weed is good and harmless and cures problems" and I think that was a lot truer when most people had less access and hence smoked less.
posted by Frowner at 6:35 PM on September 2 [5 favorites]
It's a lot like just wanting a refreshing, well-made craft beer, but all that's on-tap are triple-imperial stouts.
That's how it was for a while - "can I interest you in a pint of Hopfucker Five Thousand, or would you prefer a can of coors light in a baby bottle" was the Craft Beer Experience joke I was making for a while* - but here's a trend I'm seeing now towards "session" beers - meaning, like 3% (or even 2%) beers you can enjoy a few of over a few hours without having your shit fall apart. You still shouldn't drive, obviously, but you can drink four or five beers over four or five hours and it's pleasant.
I have to concede that trend or no it doesn't make much sense to take that approach, though, given the most mercenary of market-driven reasoning. If the weed market is anything like the alcohol and gambling markets, then they're making about 85% of their profits from the five percent of their audience that are the hardest of hardcore addicts, so those are your main target market and everyone else gets the occasional fig leaf.
* - "If you're feeling adventurous, you might enjoy our new Hopfucker Twelve Thousand, which we serve warm, on board, with a steak knife."
posted by mhoye at 6:53 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
That's how it was for a while - "can I interest you in a pint of Hopfucker Five Thousand, or would you prefer a can of coors light in a baby bottle" was the Craft Beer Experience joke I was making for a while* - but here's a trend I'm seeing now towards "session" beers - meaning, like 3% (or even 2%) beers you can enjoy a few of over a few hours without having your shit fall apart. You still shouldn't drive, obviously, but you can drink four or five beers over four or five hours and it's pleasant.
I have to concede that trend or no it doesn't make much sense to take that approach, though, given the most mercenary of market-driven reasoning. If the weed market is anything like the alcohol and gambling markets, then they're making about 85% of their profits from the five percent of their audience that are the hardest of hardcore addicts, so those are your main target market and everyone else gets the occasional fig leaf.
* - "If you're feeling adventurous, you might enjoy our new Hopfucker Twelve Thousand, which we serve warm, on board, with a steak knife."
posted by mhoye at 6:53 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
(from deadwax)
> That's not the most fleshed out exposition of AU culture in history but there's the kernel of a truth there, I think. I'm working on it.
Who gets ahead in a penal colony? Screws, snitches and squatters.
> What I'd like to see is the growing of weed made legal but not the selling. Bartering fine, gifting fine, a blind eye to selling to friends etc.
But then you couldn't *tax* it, and if you can't tax it it's a perversion which must be banned.
> Keep capitalism out of it. I don't have my hopes up.
You and me both.
posted by nickzoic at 6:59 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
> That's not the most fleshed out exposition of AU culture in history but there's the kernel of a truth there, I think. I'm working on it.
Who gets ahead in a penal colony? Screws, snitches and squatters.
> What I'd like to see is the growing of weed made legal but not the selling. Bartering fine, gifting fine, a blind eye to selling to friends etc.
But then you couldn't *tax* it, and if you can't tax it it's a perversion which must be banned.
> Keep capitalism out of it. I don't have my hopes up.
You and me both.
posted by nickzoic at 6:59 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
OK, let's see if I can condense this. My wife has depression/PTSD/anxiety. SSRIs keep the worst at bay, it's not enough. This is an enormous black dog, every day. She needs something to really take that edge off, maybe a little euphoria wouldn't hurt.
We are seniors and live in deep red ND. Montana border is about fifty-some miles and the first county is legal. We crossed the border and there were three dispensaries almost right there. We got 1:1 gummies and my wife said they didn't move the needle. A friend gave us some gummies that they got out of state, they should have been stronger. At best, it left her in a state where thoughts would just evaporate, but it certainly wasn't any kind of high. Or maybe that's exactly what should happen. She also tried a few hits on a vape pen, her technique for inhaling was not great and again, felt nothing.
The end of this month we will travel to MN and I intend to visit the dispensary at Prairie Island. What should I ask for? I worry that with her anxiety, some strains or delivery systems might give her a Loooooooooong anxiety attack. So, what should I be seeking?
posted by Ber at 7:25 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
We are seniors and live in deep red ND. Montana border is about fifty-some miles and the first county is legal. We crossed the border and there were three dispensaries almost right there. We got 1:1 gummies and my wife said they didn't move the needle. A friend gave us some gummies that they got out of state, they should have been stronger. At best, it left her in a state where thoughts would just evaporate, but it certainly wasn't any kind of high. Or maybe that's exactly what should happen. She also tried a few hits on a vape pen, her technique for inhaling was not great and again, felt nothing.
The end of this month we will travel to MN and I intend to visit the dispensary at Prairie Island. What should I ask for? I worry that with her anxiety, some strains or delivery systems might give her a Loooooooooong anxiety attack. So, what should I be seeking?
posted by Ber at 7:25 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
If she wasn’t on SSRIs, I’d say MDMA. So, maybe a low dose of shrooms? Cannabis may just not be the right thing for her for that.
posted by sixswitch at 7:42 PM on September 2 [4 favorites]
posted by sixswitch at 7:42 PM on September 2 [4 favorites]
A friends teenage son had cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome. He smoked every day, morning to night, and the throwing up didn't stop him. It was horrible. I gather he doesn't smoke as much anymore and it's no longer a problem, but definitely a real thing.
posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:45 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
posted by Winnie the Proust at 7:45 PM on September 2 [1 favorite]
I thought medical cannabis was the greatest thing since sliced bread once it came here. To be able to walk into a dispensary and just order off a menu—like in Amsterdam!—was a dream come true. And I enjoyed it for a number of years.
I don't know if it's age and my neurotransmitters changing, but, as of late last year, I stopped getting the same feeling from weed. Maybe I was chasing the memory of old buzzes too hard, I don't know. But something that I've enjoyed since I was 17 stopped bringing me the same pleasure. I stopped having those magical buzzes that are almost psychedelic, and even my regular buzzes were kinda flat.
Then, in mid-April, I smoked some not-very-potent THC/CBD blend that I'd had a bunch of times before, and it hit me Real Hard. Not paranoid-crazy or couch-locked, but just…incapable of doing things because everything seemed pointless and not fun. It was like I'd smoked the anti-weed. It was four hours-plus of feeling utterly shitty, like the most depressed I've been in years.
Soon thereafter, I read this report, which I linked to in another thread some time back. The conclusion as summarized by Harvard Health:
"Compared with people who never used cannabis, participants who did so once a week had a 3% higher risk of heart attack and a 5% higher risk of stroke during the four-year study period. But those who used cannabis daily faced 25% greater odds of a heart attack and were 42% likelier to have a stroke. The study was observational, meaning it couldn't prove that cannabis use causes cardiovascular problems — just that an association exists."
There has since been another, retrospective study that does not reach the same conclusion, but, for me, the combination of, for whatever reason, enjoying it less + that one horrible experience in April + compelling evidence that there is at least an association between consuming cannabis and higher risk of a MACE (major adverse cardiovascular event) = time to put away the vape and bong. I had a good run with it, and I'm sad to let it go, but, in my case, I think I was telling myself to stop.
posted by the sobsister at 9:00 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
I don't know if it's age and my neurotransmitters changing, but, as of late last year, I stopped getting the same feeling from weed. Maybe I was chasing the memory of old buzzes too hard, I don't know. But something that I've enjoyed since I was 17 stopped bringing me the same pleasure. I stopped having those magical buzzes that are almost psychedelic, and even my regular buzzes were kinda flat.
Then, in mid-April, I smoked some not-very-potent THC/CBD blend that I'd had a bunch of times before, and it hit me Real Hard. Not paranoid-crazy or couch-locked, but just…incapable of doing things because everything seemed pointless and not fun. It was like I'd smoked the anti-weed. It was four hours-plus of feeling utterly shitty, like the most depressed I've been in years.
Soon thereafter, I read this report, which I linked to in another thread some time back. The conclusion as summarized by Harvard Health:
"Compared with people who never used cannabis, participants who did so once a week had a 3% higher risk of heart attack and a 5% higher risk of stroke during the four-year study period. But those who used cannabis daily faced 25% greater odds of a heart attack and were 42% likelier to have a stroke. The study was observational, meaning it couldn't prove that cannabis use causes cardiovascular problems — just that an association exists."
There has since been another, retrospective study that does not reach the same conclusion, but, for me, the combination of, for whatever reason, enjoying it less + that one horrible experience in April + compelling evidence that there is at least an association between consuming cannabis and higher risk of a MACE (major adverse cardiovascular event) = time to put away the vape and bong. I had a good run with it, and I'm sad to let it go, but, in my case, I think I was telling myself to stop.
posted by the sobsister at 9:00 PM on September 2 [3 favorites]
The study notes that smoking was the most common form of ingestion and it's known that smoking anything at all almost certainly increases your risk of heart attack and stroke, that cannabis is included in this is not surprising. Picking that relationship apart would be interesting and is probably increasingly possible as people move to gummies and other edibles over smoking.
posted by deadwax at 9:25 PM on September 2 [5 favorites]
posted by deadwax at 9:25 PM on September 2 [5 favorites]
I’m curious about the cardiac effects of gummies and low doses. The studies seemed to be focused on smoking. The only times I’ve ever used it have been at night to help me sleep. I cut up a 10 mg gummy into quarters, so I’m getting 2.5 mg. Not enough at all to get high but it makes for much better sleep. This is something that I only do sparingly, not every night, the most I’ve done is twice a week. (The way I described it to my wife is that it helps you close down for the day.) I have a follow up appointment with my cardiologist this week and I’m going to ask his thoughts, but I don’t know how much information he’ll have on the whole low dose thing, seeing how there really isn’t much in the way of actual scientific studies. It’s just really nice to be able to get some sleep on a night where my body doesn’t want to call it a day just yet.
posted by azpenguin at 9:57 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 9:57 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
The variability in digesting it (gummies) vs smoking or vaping is huge. For example there are certain people that lack a certain enzyme or whatever and gummies just go right through them. I think I'm one of them, every time I've tried them it's gone like this: take 1, wait an hour or two, feel nothing, take another 2, wait another hour, feel nothing, take 3, feel nothing, etc. until the 10 I bought are gone and I never got anything out of it. And I don't want to just start out double fisting them either, because who knows, maybe a different strain would do something. But even still, there's this one to two hour delay between when you take it and when things start to happen so this dosing thing becomes a chore. Anyway just thought I'd point that out because I find it wild that people are chopping up gummies into quarters. Diffrent' strokes for diffrent folks.
posted by Rhomboid at 10:28 PM on September 2 [5 favorites]
posted by Rhomboid at 10:28 PM on September 2 [5 favorites]
The only times I’ve ever used it have been at night to help me sleep. I cut up a 10 mg gummy into quarters, so I’m getting 2.5 mg. Not enough at all to get high but it makes for much better sleep. This is something that I only do sparingly, not every night, the most I’ve done is twice a week.
Complicating things is that lack of sleep and poor sleep are also correlated with poor cardiovascular outcomes. Could be hard to tease out what is worse - 2.5mg every night leading to a solid 8 hours of sleep or only getting 4 hours a night.
posted by Mitheral at 11:00 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
Complicating things is that lack of sleep and poor sleep are also correlated with poor cardiovascular outcomes. Could be hard to tease out what is worse - 2.5mg every night leading to a solid 8 hours of sleep or only getting 4 hours a night.
posted by Mitheral at 11:00 PM on September 2 [2 favorites]
Just to be clear, the increased risk of heart attack and stroke is from smoking weed, but is there the same risk with vaping? With edibles? In other words is the risk from inhaling smoke or ingesting THC (and other compounds)?
posted by zardoz at 1:10 AM on September 3 [2 favorites]
posted by zardoz at 1:10 AM on September 3 [2 favorites]
I will certainly read with interest any studies that properly address the administration route issue.
My current working assumption is that introducing substances other than air into my lungs without giving them at least a week to recover betweentimes is more than likely doing them harm. I'm also not convinced that encouraging vapourized resins to condense inside them is going to be significantly less harmful than loading them up with the tar dust that we call smoke. For any given degree of stonage achieved, both methods cause me to need to exercise about the same amount of cough suppression discipline so I know they're pretty close as irritants go.
My other current working assumption is that eating my own leaf trimmings could plausibly cut my risk of bowel cancer (because added dietary fibre) to roughly the same extent as it increases my risk of circulatory system issues. The human digestive tract, unlike the human respiratory system, is built to dismantle plant material.
I've reached that age where two of my friends have emphysema, which Do Not Want. Each of them has smoked way more than I have over the last forty years, though.
So I keep my consumption moderate, and occasional rather than chronic, and smoke much less than I eat, and use weed purely to augment other pleasurable activities like walks and swims and music and massage rather than trying to suppress anxiety or avoid feeling sad or flat. Not because puritan, merely unwilling to destroy one of life's considerable pleasures via habituation. Cannabis is firmly in the recreational camp for me, not so much in the medicinal except insofar as anything pleasurable is good medicine unless overdone.
posted by flabdablet at 3:38 AM on September 3 [3 favorites]
My current working assumption is that introducing substances other than air into my lungs without giving them at least a week to recover betweentimes is more than likely doing them harm. I'm also not convinced that encouraging vapourized resins to condense inside them is going to be significantly less harmful than loading them up with the tar dust that we call smoke. For any given degree of stonage achieved, both methods cause me to need to exercise about the same amount of cough suppression discipline so I know they're pretty close as irritants go.
My other current working assumption is that eating my own leaf trimmings could plausibly cut my risk of bowel cancer (because added dietary fibre) to roughly the same extent as it increases my risk of circulatory system issues. The human digestive tract, unlike the human respiratory system, is built to dismantle plant material.
I've reached that age where two of my friends have emphysema, which Do Not Want. Each of them has smoked way more than I have over the last forty years, though.
So I keep my consumption moderate, and occasional rather than chronic, and smoke much less than I eat, and use weed purely to augment other pleasurable activities like walks and swims and music and massage rather than trying to suppress anxiety or avoid feeling sad or flat. Not because puritan, merely unwilling to destroy one of life's considerable pleasures via habituation. Cannabis is firmly in the recreational camp for me, not so much in the medicinal except insofar as anything pleasurable is good medicine unless overdone.
posted by flabdablet at 3:38 AM on September 3 [3 favorites]
The only times I’ve ever used it have been at night to help me sleep. I cut up a 10 mg gummy into quarters, so I’m getting 2.5 mg. Not enough at all to get high but it makes for much better sleep. This is something that I only do sparingly, not every night, the most I’ve done is twice a week
Not to bad news you, but it seems THC is linked with poor sleep quality as it would let you sleep but not enter some of the deep phases. YMMV, it’s probably dose dependent but be on the look out for info on this.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 4:06 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
Not to bad news you, but it seems THC is linked with poor sleep quality as it would let you sleep but not enter some of the deep phases. YMMV, it’s probably dose dependent but be on the look out for info on this.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 4:06 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
The high that most adult weed smokers remember from their teenage years ...
I think chasing the memory of teenage highs is a waste of time and good drugs, for reasons William Burroughs explains. There's a first time for everything, and all that an attempt to recreate an earlier high can ever possibly be is a distraction from your first time getting high at the exact age you are right now.
posted by flabdablet at 4:07 AM on September 3 [3 favorites]
I think chasing the memory of teenage highs is a waste of time and good drugs, for reasons William Burroughs explains. There's a first time for everything, and all that an attempt to recreate an earlier high can ever possibly be is a distraction from your first time getting high at the exact age you are right now.
posted by flabdablet at 4:07 AM on September 3 [3 favorites]
I smoked in my youth and enjoyed getting high, but in my mid fifties I’m not interested in getting fucked up.
The main way I use pot is medicinally (though not on a medical card.) I have trouble sleeping and find that one pull off of a vape with a Granddaddy Purple cartridge will get me right back to sleep when I wake in the wee hours.
Otherwise I pretty much only partake via weed seltzers. Very easy to titrate an ultra low dose. I am looking for something akin to the relaxation from a single glass of wine, but without the alcohol calories. Half or a third of a seltzer does it. Works for me!
posted by Sublimity at 4:13 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
The main way I use pot is medicinally (though not on a medical card.) I have trouble sleeping and find that one pull off of a vape with a Granddaddy Purple cartridge will get me right back to sleep when I wake in the wee hours.
Otherwise I pretty much only partake via weed seltzers. Very easy to titrate an ultra low dose. I am looking for something akin to the relaxation from a single glass of wine, but without the alcohol calories. Half or a third of a seltzer does it. Works for me!
posted by Sublimity at 4:13 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
never thought i'd ever be nostalgic for ditch weed but there it is
posted by graywyvern at 6:42 AM on September 3 [4 favorites]
posted by graywyvern at 6:42 AM on September 3 [4 favorites]
I always felt like smoking pot gave me panic attacks because the smoke made my chest hurt, and that plus slightly elevated heart rate would turn into that high anxiety feeling. Whatever it is, I don't want to risk getting that effect, plus pot is a gateway drug to tobacco for me. So I now take half a 5mg edible in the evening and maybe the other half another a couple of hours later.
I felt really seen when I read all the articles about Lee Child using pot. This one is fairly typical. (And more recent than most, but I bet they are all based on the same few interviews.) I use cannabis more or less like I used to use tobacco and still use caffiene-- to change my thinking a little bit and fiddle with stuff when I'm writing. I used to use tobacco for that and still miss it. I have so many friends who say they used to be better writers when they still smoked (tobacco).
posted by BibiRose at 6:59 AM on September 3 [3 favorites]
I felt really seen when I read all the articles about Lee Child using pot. This one is fairly typical. (And more recent than most, but I bet they are all based on the same few interviews.) I use cannabis more or less like I used to use tobacco and still use caffiene-- to change my thinking a little bit and fiddle with stuff when I'm writing. I used to use tobacco for that and still miss it. I have so many friends who say they used to be better writers when they still smoked (tobacco).
posted by BibiRose at 6:59 AM on September 3 [3 favorites]
Have there been any studies that have focused solely on cannabis smokers ONLY as one of the control groups and not tobacco smoker plus cannabis? Because that's where I am not entirely convinced about the heart health aspect.
Heavy tobacco users smoke a lot. Heavy cannabis users aren't knocking out a cigarette pack worth of joints every day. (I mean, maybe if you're really dedicated.) Like, my .35 gram daily joint doesn't equal a pack of smokes.
I remain wary of medical studies that feel like they are pushing an anti-legalization agenda.
posted by Kitteh at 7:28 AM on September 3 [6 favorites]
Heavy tobacco users smoke a lot. Heavy cannabis users aren't knocking out a cigarette pack worth of joints every day. (I mean, maybe if you're really dedicated.) Like, my .35 gram daily joint doesn't equal a pack of smokes.
I remain wary of medical studies that feel like they are pushing an anti-legalization agenda.
posted by Kitteh at 7:28 AM on September 3 [6 favorites]
I used to use tobacco for that and still miss it. I have so many friends who say they used to be better writers when they still smoked (tobacco).
What, if anything, does a nicotine patch do for your writing?
I have a very low tolerance for nicotine. Finishing a cigarette that any of my friends could smoke with no issue at all is enough to bring on many of the symptoms of nicotine poisoning for me, including ataxia, tremor, deathly pallor, sweating, laboured heavy breathing, tachycardia and on one memorable occasion complete loss of consciousness. So I don't smoke tobacco very often, and when I do, I roll the skinniest of skinny racehorses. And I won't smoke the mixed mulls that introduced me to tobacco in the first place (damn you for a gateway drug, cannabis!).
Being 60+ sucks in a lot of ways. I could do with less chronic muscle and joint pain for a start, and dropping weight and keeping it off is super difficult. But no longer feeling like I have anything to prove, and having thereby achieved complete immunity against peer pressure to ingest substances in heroic quantities or hurt myself in other stupid ways, is purely a boon.
posted by flabdablet at 7:31 AM on September 3 [3 favorites]
What, if anything, does a nicotine patch do for your writing?
I have a very low tolerance for nicotine. Finishing a cigarette that any of my friends could smoke with no issue at all is enough to bring on many of the symptoms of nicotine poisoning for me, including ataxia, tremor, deathly pallor, sweating, laboured heavy breathing, tachycardia and on one memorable occasion complete loss of consciousness. So I don't smoke tobacco very often, and when I do, I roll the skinniest of skinny racehorses. And I won't smoke the mixed mulls that introduced me to tobacco in the first place (damn you for a gateway drug, cannabis!).
Being 60+ sucks in a lot of ways. I could do with less chronic muscle and joint pain for a start, and dropping weight and keeping it off is super difficult. But no longer feeling like I have anything to prove, and having thereby achieved complete immunity against peer pressure to ingest substances in heroic quantities or hurt myself in other stupid ways, is purely a boon.
posted by flabdablet at 7:31 AM on September 3 [3 favorites]
What, if anything, does a nicotine patch do for your writing?
I’ve never tried the patches or the gum. I suspect the gum might work better by giving me a little “hit” like a cigarette, as opposed to a steady stream. It’s just such a powerful addiction with me, it’s better if I don’t play around with it. With THC on the other hand, I can tell it’s addictive, but not on that level.
posted by BibiRose at 8:36 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
I’ve never tried the patches or the gum. I suspect the gum might work better by giving me a little “hit” like a cigarette, as opposed to a steady stream. It’s just such a powerful addiction with me, it’s better if I don’t play around with it. With THC on the other hand, I can tell it’s addictive, but not on that level.
posted by BibiRose at 8:36 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
If this is a vote, I agree: cannabis is too strong now. When I was young, it was great, getting high made me happy & feel like anything was possible. Now that I'm old, it's not only fucking legal (here) but there's a shop on every corner! And all they sell is this weird potent shit that starts to make me feel ill if I take enough to catch a buzz. Oh, the irony. Mild strength gummies are okay but sometimes tricky to get the dosage feel right. And in conclusion, I don't know what else to say.
posted by ovvl at 8:36 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
posted by ovvl at 8:36 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
Just to be clear, the increased risk of heart attack and stroke is from smoking weed, but is there the same risk with vaping? With edibles? In other words is the risk from inhaling smoke or ingesting THC (and other compounds)?
It’s only been a few years that there have been major studies on the cardiovascular risks of cannabis so I don’t think anyone really knows. I don’t think it should really surprise anyone that it’s an acute risk, not just because of the smoking part but because it acutely increases heart rate. Certainly does mine, anyway.
The platelet thing is pretty new research and I’m not sure there’s an adequate understanding of its significance (or of the full profile of effects).
posted by atoxyl at 8:38 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
It’s only been a few years that there have been major studies on the cardiovascular risks of cannabis so I don’t think anyone really knows. I don’t think it should really surprise anyone that it’s an acute risk, not just because of the smoking part but because it acutely increases heart rate. Certainly does mine, anyway.
The platelet thing is pretty new research and I’m not sure there’s an adequate understanding of its significance (or of the full profile of effects).
posted by atoxyl at 8:38 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
Following up, my sense is that it's not simply a question of the smoke/inhalation process that's damaging and conducive to SAME outcomes in the same way, as noted, that any combustion/vaporization + inhalation would have. There's also a question of the cannabinoid receptors in the system and how that impacts the cardiovascular system. I read something to that effect, but can't put my finger on it right now.
posted by the sobsister at 8:40 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
posted by the sobsister at 8:40 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
Sorry, edit window closed: pls. swap "MACE" for "SAME."
posted by the sobsister at 8:47 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
posted by the sobsister at 8:47 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
Anyway as someone who used to smoke a fair amount of weed, and who now smokes once in a while, I do feel it’s too strong. But as someone who grew up in California and first smoked in 2007, I don’t really think it’s that much stronger than what I grew up with. And of course “it’s not your parents’ weed” was actually a line when I was a kid, too. It feels like what we’re really seeing is that what was the high end has become the norm, and that places that are just developing an open weed culture are catching up with the places that had one. But I don’t know how much higher the high end has gotten in a while.
Dab shit and almost-pure THC concentrates do freak me out, though. People are very lucky that THC is a partial agonist which imposes a ceiling to its effects.
posted by atoxyl at 9:07 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
Dab shit and almost-pure THC concentrates do freak me out, though. People are very lucky that THC is a partial agonist which imposes a ceiling to its effects.
posted by atoxyl at 9:07 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
Pot prohibition was a weeping sore and the current situation has made that a little less bad. But as Mark A. R. Kleiman predicted, America would pick the worst possible way of ending it. The multi-State distribution oligopoly was not one of the things he imagined but it fits with the rest.
Too bad Kleiman couldn't get the Feds (or any of the States even) to pay any attention to him when there was still time to do it right.
I'm coming up on the 50th anniversary of my first joint, so TFA is talking about an "old days" that's 20-30 years later than my formative pot experiences. What I miss is the old Colombian sativa that two people could smoke a joint of and get buzzed, or one person could get a solid high. Or even Maui Wowee, which was probably a sinsemilla version of that. It's impossible to do anything after you smoke indica which is the only thing anybody sells anymore.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 9:13 AM on September 3 [4 favorites]
Too bad Kleiman couldn't get the Feds (or any of the States even) to pay any attention to him when there was still time to do it right.
I'm coming up on the 50th anniversary of my first joint, so TFA is talking about an "old days" that's 20-30 years later than my formative pot experiences. What I miss is the old Colombian sativa that two people could smoke a joint of and get buzzed, or one person could get a solid high. Or even Maui Wowee, which was probably a sinsemilla version of that. It's impossible to do anything after you smoke indica which is the only thing anybody sells anymore.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 9:13 AM on September 3 [4 favorites]
I remain wary of medical studies that feel like they are pushing an anti-legalization agenda.
the anti-legalization thing has gotta be one of the most shameful (and prolonged) political projects I've experienced in my lifetime. It was clear to me as early as age sixteen that whatever may have been "evil" about the weed I liked, it had nothing on alcohol (which I also liked) and what it was doing to people -- their moods, actions, physical and mental health. And here I'm thinking of bad car crashes, fights, beatings, poisonings -- all of these from alcohol, pretty much every weekend to some person or other. Whereas marijuana -- it maybe made you say silly things out loud, love music that wasn't actually that good, eat too much and (not a problem at all really) begin to question the absurdity of much of everyday life and culture.
It was obvious to me at the time (1976) that marijuana would soon be legalized or at least decriminalized and that, as a culture, we'd fix our focus on some real problems. But that didn't happen, did it? Instead we got Ronald Reagan and the fucking 1980s. By the end of that stupid decade, up here in Canada they wouldn't sell you "rolling" papers anymore at 7/11, but they would sell you "cigarette" papers.
So yeah, maybe if you're feeling a need to jump on board with some anti-marijuana politicizing based on (at best) incomplete science, you should shut the fuck up. And if you're genuinely serious about looking into long term concerns (which are genuine concerns), maybe start studying a few cultures that have a long history of use.
It is strange to me that some quick googling does not find mention of such stuff. What's up medical scientists?
posted by philip-random at 9:33 AM on September 3 [5 favorites]
the anti-legalization thing has gotta be one of the most shameful (and prolonged) political projects I've experienced in my lifetime. It was clear to me as early as age sixteen that whatever may have been "evil" about the weed I liked, it had nothing on alcohol (which I also liked) and what it was doing to people -- their moods, actions, physical and mental health. And here I'm thinking of bad car crashes, fights, beatings, poisonings -- all of these from alcohol, pretty much every weekend to some person or other. Whereas marijuana -- it maybe made you say silly things out loud, love music that wasn't actually that good, eat too much and (not a problem at all really) begin to question the absurdity of much of everyday life and culture.
It was obvious to me at the time (1976) that marijuana would soon be legalized or at least decriminalized and that, as a culture, we'd fix our focus on some real problems. But that didn't happen, did it? Instead we got Ronald Reagan and the fucking 1980s. By the end of that stupid decade, up here in Canada they wouldn't sell you "rolling" papers anymore at 7/11, but they would sell you "cigarette" papers.
So yeah, maybe if you're feeling a need to jump on board with some anti-marijuana politicizing based on (at best) incomplete science, you should shut the fuck up. And if you're genuinely serious about looking into long term concerns (which are genuine concerns), maybe start studying a few cultures that have a long history of use.
It is strange to me that some quick googling does not find mention of such stuff. What's up medical scientists?
posted by philip-random at 9:33 AM on September 3 [5 favorites]
Also it’s my understanding that published THC percentages run high?
I’ve seen a couple of brands marketing mids for the old heads - Old Pal is the one that I bought from a couple times because I thought this was a great idea (i.e. an idea I’d had myself) but I don’t know how popular it has been. I think I saw that they’ve also started offering some higher end products.
posted by atoxyl at 9:43 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
I’ve seen a couple of brands marketing mids for the old heads - Old Pal is the one that I bought from a couple times because I thought this was a great idea (i.e. an idea I’d had myself) but I don’t know how popular it has been. I think I saw that they’ve also started offering some higher end products.
posted by atoxyl at 9:43 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
Weed does not have the same negative outcomes as alcohol and harder drugs do, but it routinely gets demonized in outsized ways (IMHO). Like, speaking for myself, and only for myself, weed is not likely to give me cirrhosis as my alcohol addiction would have. Like, unlike beer, there is a defined stopping point for me with weed.
posted by Kitteh at 9:45 AM on September 3 [3 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 9:45 AM on September 3 [3 favorites]
Without regulation imposing a cap on potency it seems like it will be fundamentally very difficult to sustain a business catering to casual cannabis users, because it’s not hard to grow stuff that is plenty potent for a casual user. I spend $15-20 annually on weed these days, buying a low-shelf eighth with a low 20s advertised THC percentage literally as my stock for the year, and still end up throwing half of that away.
Incidentally the one low potency niche that seems to be well established is the high-CBD stuff.
posted by atoxyl at 9:55 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
Incidentally the one low potency niche that seems to be well established is the high-CBD stuff.
posted by atoxyl at 9:55 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
I warn people about the cardiac angle on marijuana because someone close to me was literally moments from death due to a stent thrombosis at a very young age, following a serious heart attack at a very young age and the biggest controllable risk factor there was daily smoking. Every cardiologist involved in care felt that given the risk profile, smoking marijuana was actively dangerous.
This has nothing to do with legalization - all kinds of things are legal, we trust people to make their own decisions, hopefully informed. It has everything to do with the assumption that smoking pot in any quantity at any frequency must be neutral or beneficial and anyone questioning this must have a bad, repressive agenda, and IME even educated, well-informed people make this assumption. People who would never touch aspartame or splenda will smoke substantial amounts every day, for instance.
Believe me, you don't want to be in the ER while they labor over someone who has a massive stent thrombosis. You don't want to be that person worrying about it ever after due to heart damage and trauma. If you have significant cardiac risk factors, consider carefully before you smoke a lot of anything, and if you want my opinion, err on the side of caution with the THC.
posted by Frowner at 10:27 AM on September 3 [5 favorites]
This has nothing to do with legalization - all kinds of things are legal, we trust people to make their own decisions, hopefully informed. It has everything to do with the assumption that smoking pot in any quantity at any frequency must be neutral or beneficial and anyone questioning this must have a bad, repressive agenda, and IME even educated, well-informed people make this assumption. People who would never touch aspartame or splenda will smoke substantial amounts every day, for instance.
Believe me, you don't want to be in the ER while they labor over someone who has a massive stent thrombosis. You don't want to be that person worrying about it ever after due to heart damage and trauma. If you have significant cardiac risk factors, consider carefully before you smoke a lot of anything, and if you want my opinion, err on the side of caution with the THC.
posted by Frowner at 10:27 AM on September 3 [5 favorites]
Random thought on the heart stuff.
Cannabis use is associated with greater risk of developing schizophrenia, but the most recent research I've seen is that while there's a small risk of cannabis initiating an episode of psychosis that turns into schizophrenia, there's a much higher risk of having an underlying risk profile for schizophrenia causing you to initiate cannabis use. Schizophrenia is also associated with higher platelet counts and hypercoagulity, but we don't know if schizophrenia itself causes it or not. So are the associations picking up on weed causing sticky platelets and also causing more people to develop schizophrenia, or on schizophrenia (or risk for it) causing hypercoagulity and also causing more people to smoke weed, or a third thing causing multiple of these?
As per usual science brings up more questions than it answers. I'll probably be going down a rabbit hole about this for a while.
posted by brook horse at 10:34 AM on September 3 [4 favorites]
Cannabis use is associated with greater risk of developing schizophrenia, but the most recent research I've seen is that while there's a small risk of cannabis initiating an episode of psychosis that turns into schizophrenia, there's a much higher risk of having an underlying risk profile for schizophrenia causing you to initiate cannabis use. Schizophrenia is also associated with higher platelet counts and hypercoagulity, but we don't know if schizophrenia itself causes it or not. So are the associations picking up on weed causing sticky platelets and also causing more people to develop schizophrenia, or on schizophrenia (or risk for it) causing hypercoagulity and also causing more people to smoke weed, or a third thing causing multiple of these?
As per usual science brings up more questions than it answers. I'll probably be going down a rabbit hole about this for a while.
posted by brook horse at 10:34 AM on September 3 [4 favorites]
Causality in the cannabis/psychosis relationship is something people have been trying to parse out for quite a while. Same for tobacco - the prevalence of smoking (tobacco) in people with schizophrenia is remarkably high. My understanding is that the current consensus does lean toward there being a causative role (possibly for both cannabis and tobacco?) based on longitudinal studies but that self-medication may also play into the association.
As far as cardiovascular effects, it’s just not a bad bet that cannabis use is a risk on some level because there are plausible mechanisms. Smoking anything is probably a risk. Cardiac stimulation can be a risk (and I know for at least the first hour after smoking weed my heart rate goes up substantially). And there appears to be a role of cannabinoid receptors in the regulation of platelets and coagulation, though as I suggested earlier I think it’s probably too soon to come to strong conclusions about the role this plays in overall risk because we’re talking about a highly complex area of physiology and the effects seen in studies seem to be all over the place and the area of research is relatively young.
posted by atoxyl at 11:07 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
As far as cardiovascular effects, it’s just not a bad bet that cannabis use is a risk on some level because there are plausible mechanisms. Smoking anything is probably a risk. Cardiac stimulation can be a risk (and I know for at least the first hour after smoking weed my heart rate goes up substantially). And there appears to be a role of cannabinoid receptors in the regulation of platelets and coagulation, though as I suggested earlier I think it’s probably too soon to come to strong conclusions about the role this plays in overall risk because we’re talking about a highly complex area of physiology and the effects seen in studies seem to be all over the place and the area of research is relatively young.
posted by atoxyl at 11:07 AM on September 3 [1 favorite]
It feels like what we’re really seeing is that what was the high end has become the norm
What marks any given strain of cannabis "high end", in my book, is how interesting the stone is. Exactly how much or how little I need to ingest to make it come on is pretty much irrelevant after a few dose calibration trials.
There's something deeply unwell about the almost universal commercial tendency to take some essentially arbitrary metric and decide that that is the feature everybody is going to compete on. THC levels in commercially grown cannabis are a case in point.
THC is but one cannabinoid compound. Cannabis has over a hundred different cannabinoids, most of which will be psychoactive and/or physiologically active to some extent. The net effect of any given plant's entire mix of cannabinoids is what gives the stone provided by that plant its distinctive character.
Marketing cannabis mainly on THC concentration just ignores all that. The idea that more THC equals more better encourages a competitive aspect to the act of getting stoned, where the winner is whoever can absorb the most THC the fastest without actually passing out.
I'm not so sure that the main difference between today's commercial cannabis and that of twenty years ago is actually a matter of "strength" so much as one of deliberately created imbalance, where plant strains get bred to optimize THC production specifically because that's what's marketable, regardless of what happens to all the other cannabinoids. It's like deciding that the only thing needed to make burgers good is more mustard at all costs.
Personally I don't think that more is better. Not for THC concentration in cannabis; not for anything, really. Enough is better. This puts me at odds with Milton Friedman, notorious for the transparently stupid claim that human wants and needs are infinite. How much better off we'd all be right now if only that dude had smoked better weed.
I know for at least the first hour after smoking weed my heart rate goes up substantially
Can confirm for eating weed as well. Puts that rate smack dab in the middle of the training zone without even needing the exercise bike or treadmill to keep it there :-)
posted by flabdablet at 11:31 AM on September 3 [6 favorites]
What marks any given strain of cannabis "high end", in my book, is how interesting the stone is. Exactly how much or how little I need to ingest to make it come on is pretty much irrelevant after a few dose calibration trials.
There's something deeply unwell about the almost universal commercial tendency to take some essentially arbitrary metric and decide that that is the feature everybody is going to compete on. THC levels in commercially grown cannabis are a case in point.
THC is but one cannabinoid compound. Cannabis has over a hundred different cannabinoids, most of which will be psychoactive and/or physiologically active to some extent. The net effect of any given plant's entire mix of cannabinoids is what gives the stone provided by that plant its distinctive character.
Marketing cannabis mainly on THC concentration just ignores all that. The idea that more THC equals more better encourages a competitive aspect to the act of getting stoned, where the winner is whoever can absorb the most THC the fastest without actually passing out.
I'm not so sure that the main difference between today's commercial cannabis and that of twenty years ago is actually a matter of "strength" so much as one of deliberately created imbalance, where plant strains get bred to optimize THC production specifically because that's what's marketable, regardless of what happens to all the other cannabinoids. It's like deciding that the only thing needed to make burgers good is more mustard at all costs.
Personally I don't think that more is better. Not for THC concentration in cannabis; not for anything, really. Enough is better. This puts me at odds with Milton Friedman, notorious for the transparently stupid claim that human wants and needs are infinite. How much better off we'd all be right now if only that dude had smoked better weed.
I know for at least the first hour after smoking weed my heart rate goes up substantially
Can confirm for eating weed as well. Puts that rate smack dab in the middle of the training zone without even needing the exercise bike or treadmill to keep it there :-)
posted by flabdablet at 11:31 AM on September 3 [6 favorites]
It seems to me that there may be two ways to make the cannabis business viable. One is to make it be illegal, which means that people will pay higher prices for the product due to scarcity and understanding that there are significant production costs. The other is to sell it legally, but to sell strains that are very potent and very addictive. This ensures that the customers are willing to pay extra because they have to have it.
Any other business model is likely not be profitable. You won't be able to move enough of the product to cover expenses. This means that dealers selling mid or reg will go out of business. A legal seller might want to carry some mid as a loss leader to get beginners into the store, but unless the new users move on to the more potent strains, it will be a waste of shelf space. Dealers who sell mid will be the ones that lose their market share to the ones who sell the high potency stuff.
One of the reason that the illegal cannabis market in Canada is thriving is because the manufacturers of legal cannabis got into the business in the expectation of the same kind of profits that the illegal business generates. However, they need to cover both the enormous taxes that the government is entitled to and to skim off massive corporate profits, without having the captive market they had expected to have. The result is that they cut corners during the manufacturing stage in order to save expenses. I know a photographer who was given the job of going to a legal greenhouse in order to take pictures that could be used for marketing. He left without taking any photographs. The entire crop was so covered in black mold that he couldn't even find a single leaf that he could shoot, let alone an entire plant. It was a big greenhouse. The quality that the legal growers are producing it seems, ranges from bad to unsafe. As far as we know that greenhouse full of moldy plants was harvested and dried and processed. I hope it was thoroughly sterilized before the next crop was planted but I have my doubts.
The funny thing is that currently, if you buy the legal product here you have much less of an idea what the quality will be than if you can get it illegally. Gummies for example may have a great deal less of the THC than they are labeled as having - or in some case, a great deal more, simply because the THC is not evenly distributed in the package. A person who takes one a day at bedtime will find that three out of five days they can't tell they even took a gummy, one day they are a lot more stoned than they wanted to be, and only one day the dosing is not too far off. The weed being legally sold to be smoked isn't any more predictable.
The result is that anyone whose usage is not a one off is probably going to start shopping at the illegal dispensary, if they can, because the product is that much more reliable. Which is really funny, because one of the arguments for legalizing cannabis was that the product in an unregulated market is supposed to be unreliable. Possibly in another few years when enough of the legal manufacturers have more experience their product will have predictable levels and will not be as bad quality, but I am not at all sure they have the incentive. Their marketing strategy is based on having a monopoly. Where I live the illegal dispensaries keep popping up and the customers come flying in as soon as word of mouth goes around. The product they buy there is both cheaper and better quality. But in a few weeks the police have enough evidence to close the dispensary down, and there is another wait until another illegal dispensary opens up. Amusingly, the recent strategy that my city has embarked upon is to put a legal dispensary in the same premises as the illegal one occupied, as soon as they have gotten rid of it. So we are ending up with more and more legal cannabis outlets, with fewer and fewer customers...
I don't use cannabis myself, so I only know what I know from the various users and cannabis customers that I talk to. I'm not in favour of illegal cannabis, simply because the low end workers get hurt so much. The tense, friendly staff in the illegal dispensary know they are going to get arrested, be convicted and get a criminal record, and it's not fair to punish them simply for working for the government's competitor. Four blocks down someone else working the same job is receiving their wages without any fear of arrest or negative consequences. I'm also not in favour of cannabis being for sale at all, as my personal experience includes people who require bypass surgery, and the deep misery of schizophrenics with a bad addiction, living in a blur of paranoia. I'm inclined to believe that, like alcohol, if you are not depressed when you take up using cannabis, you will be before very long. But I got no useful suggestions on what might be better arrangement than what we currently have. I just watch a couple of users that I know go through their cycle over and over again of using, ending up in hospital, trying to function without it, and then resuming using again. I think it's messed up and that there should be a better way. I'm not going to tell someone not to use it, because I am going to assume that if they do, they know what the risks are and their life is so bad that they are willing to take those risks for the respite the cannabis gives them. I don't trust anyone who says that cannabis is all bad anymore than I trust someone who says that cannabis is all good.
posted by Jane the Brown at 11:54 AM on September 3 [2 favorites]
Any other business model is likely not be profitable. You won't be able to move enough of the product to cover expenses. This means that dealers selling mid or reg will go out of business. A legal seller might want to carry some mid as a loss leader to get beginners into the store, but unless the new users move on to the more potent strains, it will be a waste of shelf space. Dealers who sell mid will be the ones that lose their market share to the ones who sell the high potency stuff.
One of the reason that the illegal cannabis market in Canada is thriving is because the manufacturers of legal cannabis got into the business in the expectation of the same kind of profits that the illegal business generates. However, they need to cover both the enormous taxes that the government is entitled to and to skim off massive corporate profits, without having the captive market they had expected to have. The result is that they cut corners during the manufacturing stage in order to save expenses. I know a photographer who was given the job of going to a legal greenhouse in order to take pictures that could be used for marketing. He left without taking any photographs. The entire crop was so covered in black mold that he couldn't even find a single leaf that he could shoot, let alone an entire plant. It was a big greenhouse. The quality that the legal growers are producing it seems, ranges from bad to unsafe. As far as we know that greenhouse full of moldy plants was harvested and dried and processed. I hope it was thoroughly sterilized before the next crop was planted but I have my doubts.
The funny thing is that currently, if you buy the legal product here you have much less of an idea what the quality will be than if you can get it illegally. Gummies for example may have a great deal less of the THC than they are labeled as having - or in some case, a great deal more, simply because the THC is not evenly distributed in the package. A person who takes one a day at bedtime will find that three out of five days they can't tell they even took a gummy, one day they are a lot more stoned than they wanted to be, and only one day the dosing is not too far off. The weed being legally sold to be smoked isn't any more predictable.
The result is that anyone whose usage is not a one off is probably going to start shopping at the illegal dispensary, if they can, because the product is that much more reliable. Which is really funny, because one of the arguments for legalizing cannabis was that the product in an unregulated market is supposed to be unreliable. Possibly in another few years when enough of the legal manufacturers have more experience their product will have predictable levels and will not be as bad quality, but I am not at all sure they have the incentive. Their marketing strategy is based on having a monopoly. Where I live the illegal dispensaries keep popping up and the customers come flying in as soon as word of mouth goes around. The product they buy there is both cheaper and better quality. But in a few weeks the police have enough evidence to close the dispensary down, and there is another wait until another illegal dispensary opens up. Amusingly, the recent strategy that my city has embarked upon is to put a legal dispensary in the same premises as the illegal one occupied, as soon as they have gotten rid of it. So we are ending up with more and more legal cannabis outlets, with fewer and fewer customers...
I don't use cannabis myself, so I only know what I know from the various users and cannabis customers that I talk to. I'm not in favour of illegal cannabis, simply because the low end workers get hurt so much. The tense, friendly staff in the illegal dispensary know they are going to get arrested, be convicted and get a criminal record, and it's not fair to punish them simply for working for the government's competitor. Four blocks down someone else working the same job is receiving their wages without any fear of arrest or negative consequences. I'm also not in favour of cannabis being for sale at all, as my personal experience includes people who require bypass surgery, and the deep misery of schizophrenics with a bad addiction, living in a blur of paranoia. I'm inclined to believe that, like alcohol, if you are not depressed when you take up using cannabis, you will be before very long. But I got no useful suggestions on what might be better arrangement than what we currently have. I just watch a couple of users that I know go through their cycle over and over again of using, ending up in hospital, trying to function without it, and then resuming using again. I think it's messed up and that there should be a better way. I'm not going to tell someone not to use it, because I am going to assume that if they do, they know what the risks are and their life is so bad that they are willing to take those risks for the respite the cannabis gives them. I don't trust anyone who says that cannabis is all bad anymore than I trust someone who says that cannabis is all good.
posted by Jane the Brown at 11:54 AM on September 3 [2 favorites]
Same for tobacco - the prevalence of smoking (tobacco) in people with schizophrenia is remarkably high. My understanding is that the current consensus does lean toward there being a causative role (possibly for both cannabis and tobacco?) based on longitudinal studies but that self-medication may also play into the association.
No, for tobacco the current consensus definitely leans toward self-medication being the primary explanation for the association with smoking. There isn’t a consensus on cannabis, but we’ve had a consensus on tobacco for decades because nicotine acts on certain receptors in such a way that it normalizes a variety of cognitive and sensory deficits seen in schizophrenia, but only temporarily and only at high concentrations which is why something like 70% of people with schizophrenia who smoke are classified as heavy smokers (compared to 25% or so in the general smoking population). It’s actually just now that we’re discovering there might be some sort of causative role as well, but the belief is it’s more along the lines of genetic vulnerability to both smoking and schizophrenia. The only studies that support the act of smoking playing a role in initiating psychosis are ones that show higher rates of smoking in first-episode psychosis, but we have evidence that the cognitive deficits seen in schizophrenia appear as early as kindergarten, even if you don’t have a first episode until your teens/adult years, so we still can’t tell if that’s due to self-medication.
This does not mean there’s no possible causative role, simply that the consensus leans very heavily on self-medication and that “could there also be a causative role?” is the more avant-garde and novel position at this present point in time (and some people are exploring it, but it hasn’t gone much of anywhere yet).
This is of course strictly talking about nicotine. I don’t know the cannabis and schizophrenia research quite as in depth (and suspect there isn’t as much of it); the nicotine-schizophrenia research just happens to have overlapped with the autism research enough that I’ve been following it for the past decade.
posted by brook horse at 12:15 PM on September 3 [3 favorites]
No, for tobacco the current consensus definitely leans toward self-medication being the primary explanation for the association with smoking. There isn’t a consensus on cannabis, but we’ve had a consensus on tobacco for decades because nicotine acts on certain receptors in such a way that it normalizes a variety of cognitive and sensory deficits seen in schizophrenia, but only temporarily and only at high concentrations which is why something like 70% of people with schizophrenia who smoke are classified as heavy smokers (compared to 25% or so in the general smoking population). It’s actually just now that we’re discovering there might be some sort of causative role as well, but the belief is it’s more along the lines of genetic vulnerability to both smoking and schizophrenia. The only studies that support the act of smoking playing a role in initiating psychosis are ones that show higher rates of smoking in first-episode psychosis, but we have evidence that the cognitive deficits seen in schizophrenia appear as early as kindergarten, even if you don’t have a first episode until your teens/adult years, so we still can’t tell if that’s due to self-medication.
This does not mean there’s no possible causative role, simply that the consensus leans very heavily on self-medication and that “could there also be a causative role?” is the more avant-garde and novel position at this present point in time (and some people are exploring it, but it hasn’t gone much of anywhere yet).
This is of course strictly talking about nicotine. I don’t know the cannabis and schizophrenia research quite as in depth (and suspect there isn’t as much of it); the nicotine-schizophrenia research just happens to have overlapped with the autism research enough that I’ve been following it for the past decade.
posted by brook horse at 12:15 PM on September 3 [3 favorites]
The funny thing is that currently, if you buy the legal product here you have much less of an idea what the quality will be than if you can get it illegally. Gummies for example may have a great deal less of the THC than they are labeled as having - or in some case, a great deal more, simply because the THC is not evenly distributed in the package. A person who takes one a day at bedtime will find that three out of five days they can't tell they even took a gummy, one day they are a lot more stoned than they wanted to be, and only one day the dosing is not too far off. The weed being legally sold to be smoked isn't any more predictable.
This has not been true in my experience; edibles manufacturers are required to use third party lab testing to prove the dosage is what it says it is, as compared to most grey/black market products. If you purchase gummies from any LP, you can contact them for that info. It's when no one has third party lab testing that it's dicey. The best LPs will have that info on their labels.
edited to add: LP stands for Licenced Producer.
posted by Kitteh at 12:18 PM on September 3 [2 favorites]
This has not been true in my experience; edibles manufacturers are required to use third party lab testing to prove the dosage is what it says it is, as compared to most grey/black market products. If you purchase gummies from any LP, you can contact them for that info. It's when no one has third party lab testing that it's dicey. The best LPs will have that info on their labels.
edited to add: LP stands for Licenced Producer.
posted by Kitteh at 12:18 PM on September 3 [2 favorites]
It's not a business I'm going to invest in, let's say that.
I have a Morman friend in utah, who is an experienced Auctioneer. Her uncle was an experienced pot farmer in Southern Oregon. She went to run an auction there. Didn't go well. People were bidding like $4 a pound.
But if the percentages go up, moderate maybe?
You don't need to be taking the biggest bong rips of all time all the time. We still like you.
posted by Windopaene at 1:29 PM on September 3 [1 favorite]
I have a Morman friend in utah, who is an experienced Auctioneer. Her uncle was an experienced pot farmer in Southern Oregon. She went to run an auction there. Didn't go well. People were bidding like $4 a pound.
But if the percentages go up, moderate maybe?
You don't need to be taking the biggest bong rips of all time all the time. We still like you.
posted by Windopaene at 1:29 PM on September 3 [1 favorite]
No, for tobacco the current consensus definitely leans toward self-medication being the primary explanation for the association with smoking.
Sorry, I didn’t state what I meant here very clearly. I meant it seems like the trend has been leaning toward acceptance of some causative role for cannabis in psychosis (but probably interacting with other things because as you say signs can be observed some time before a first episode) and that, as people have started trying to apply the same study designs they’ve applied to the longitudinal effects of cannabis to tobacco, there has been a little more questioning of the idea that it’s primarily self-medication but I’m not clear on how much.
posted by atoxyl at 1:44 PM on September 3 [1 favorite]
Sorry, I didn’t state what I meant here very clearly. I meant it seems like the trend has been leaning toward acceptance of some causative role for cannabis in psychosis (but probably interacting with other things because as you say signs can be observed some time before a first episode) and that, as people have started trying to apply the same study designs they’ve applied to the longitudinal effects of cannabis to tobacco, there has been a little more questioning of the idea that it’s primarily self-medication but I’m not clear on how much.
posted by atoxyl at 1:44 PM on September 3 [1 favorite]
How does the THC content of a joint with a given percentage translate into the mg-per-serving labeling of edibles? Like, if Kitteh is making her 0.35 gram joints with 10 percent THC weed, does that mean she's getting 35 mg of THC with each one, or is there something else going on that makes the math not work that way?
(I get that the effects of inhaling THC may be substantially different from the effects of eating or drinking it, both in timing and qualitatively - but just trying to understand the dosing comparison.)
posted by nickmark at 1:48 PM on September 3 [1 favorite]
(I get that the effects of inhaling THC may be substantially different from the effects of eating or drinking it, both in timing and qualitatively - but just trying to understand the dosing comparison.)
posted by nickmark at 1:48 PM on September 3 [1 favorite]
THC is but one cannabinoid compound. Cannabis has over a hundred different cannabinoids, most of which will be psychoactive and/or physiologically active to some extent. The net effect of any given plant's entire mix of cannabinoids is what gives the stone provided by that plant its distinctive character.
These discussions are interesting to me because I 100 percent can tell a difference in effects between different routes of administration - I like the effects of smoking a little better than those of vaping, and a lot better than those of edibles, which is why, as a monthly-or-less user these days, I figure I might as well just smoke the stuff and enjoy it. So clearly there is something to different ratios of different cannabinoids at different stages of metabolism or pyrolysis having different effects. But I’ve never believed that I can tell a clear difference between strains.
posted by atoxyl at 1:49 PM on September 3 [4 favorites]
These discussions are interesting to me because I 100 percent can tell a difference in effects between different routes of administration - I like the effects of smoking a little better than those of vaping, and a lot better than those of edibles, which is why, as a monthly-or-less user these days, I figure I might as well just smoke the stuff and enjoy it. So clearly there is something to different ratios of different cannabinoids at different stages of metabolism or pyrolysis having different effects. But I’ve never believed that I can tell a clear difference between strains.
posted by atoxyl at 1:49 PM on September 3 [4 favorites]
Like, if Kitteh is making her 0.35 gram joints with 10 percent THC weed, does that mean she's getting 35 mg of THC with each one, or is there something else going on that makes the math not work that way?
Fairly sure the percentages are by weight such that the joint should have about 35 mg in it, but the math isn’t that simple for how much one is ultimately consuming simply because of the part where it gets set on fire and absorbed though the lungs. There’s probably research on how much is absorbed somewhere but I don’t have any citations offhand.
posted by atoxyl at 1:55 PM on September 3 [1 favorite]
Fairly sure the percentages are by weight such that the joint should have about 35 mg in it, but the math isn’t that simple for how much one is ultimately consuming simply because of the part where it gets set on fire and absorbed though the lungs. There’s probably research on how much is absorbed somewhere but I don’t have any citations offhand.
posted by atoxyl at 1:55 PM on September 3 [1 favorite]
Atoxyl: Ah!! Yes, that makes sense. That's my understanding of the cannabis research as well.
However, this made me finally look up something I'd been curious about and I found a a review of the effects of cannabis on cognition in schizophrenia, and it seems we similarly see some normalizing (or at least improving) cognitive effects of cannabis as is seen in tobacco. Though it looks like it's not as consistent or strong. However, one of the things nicotine improves in schizophrenia is sensory gating, while cannabis use appears to impair sensory gating. Which is a major difference at the brainstem level, so it'll be really interesting to see how the differences are parsed out as we research this more.
Brains are so interesting!
posted by brook horse at 2:00 PM on September 3 [2 favorites]
However, this made me finally look up something I'd been curious about and I found a a review of the effects of cannabis on cognition in schizophrenia, and it seems we similarly see some normalizing (or at least improving) cognitive effects of cannabis as is seen in tobacco. Though it looks like it's not as consistent or strong. However, one of the things nicotine improves in schizophrenia is sensory gating, while cannabis use appears to impair sensory gating. Which is a major difference at the brainstem level, so it'll be really interesting to see how the differences are parsed out as we research this more.
Brains are so interesting!
posted by brook horse at 2:00 PM on September 3 [2 favorites]
In re: the "not your dad's pot" claims about modern cannabis.
One thing that is genuinely new, I think, is cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome. I feel certain that this is a product of the post-2012 environment. I can remember the first time I read of a case, and the description called it something like "paradoxical cannabis-induced hyperemesis" because it did seem paradoxical. Everybody knows pot gives you the munchies! Cancer patients use it to keep chemotherapy from starving them to death! How could it make you barf?
So yeah, I think the routine use of very-high-potency cannabis like what makes the current market is going to turn out to have effects that were never anticipated back when cannabis law reform was hypothetical. Somebody upthread drew attention to populations that have traditionally used cannabis, and the answer to that is, the Jamaicans and South Africans you're thinking of were not zooted on loud every day. On the other hand, alcohol research seems to indicate that drinking beer is not safer than drinking vodka, as far as avoiding bad health effect from alcohol.
As for me, I hear that on the local black market you can get Jack Herer but you have to arrange for it in advance and buy by the 1/4 #. I'd like to be able to grow my own but would like to be on the right side of either Federal or State law, and I live in a no-go State.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 2:04 PM on September 3 [2 favorites]
One thing that is genuinely new, I think, is cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome. I feel certain that this is a product of the post-2012 environment. I can remember the first time I read of a case, and the description called it something like "paradoxical cannabis-induced hyperemesis" because it did seem paradoxical. Everybody knows pot gives you the munchies! Cancer patients use it to keep chemotherapy from starving them to death! How could it make you barf?
So yeah, I think the routine use of very-high-potency cannabis like what makes the current market is going to turn out to have effects that were never anticipated back when cannabis law reform was hypothetical. Somebody upthread drew attention to populations that have traditionally used cannabis, and the answer to that is, the Jamaicans and South Africans you're thinking of were not zooted on loud every day. On the other hand, alcohol research seems to indicate that drinking beer is not safer than drinking vodka, as far as avoiding bad health effect from alcohol.
As for me, I hear that on the local black market you can get Jack Herer but you have to arrange for it in advance and buy by the 1/4 #. I'd like to be able to grow my own but would like to be on the right side of either Federal or State law, and I live in a no-go State.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 2:04 PM on September 3 [2 favorites]
> How does the THC content of a joint with a given percentage translate into the mg-per-serving labeling of edibles? Like, if Kitteh is making her 0.35 gram joints with 10 percent THC weed, does that mean she's getting 35 mg of THC with each one, or is there something else going on that makes the math not work that way?
Way back in the day, when it was still possible to do research on pot in the US, there was a finding that of the THC in a joint, about half got burnt in the process of making the smoke. I think it's a reasonable rule of thumb, when you weigh out the flower for your cone, to expect that you'll be actually absorbing some fraction of the half that's left.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 2:07 PM on September 3 [2 favorites]
Way back in the day, when it was still possible to do research on pot in the US, there was a finding that of the THC in a joint, about half got burnt in the process of making the smoke. I think it's a reasonable rule of thumb, when you weigh out the flower for your cone, to expect that you'll be actually absorbing some fraction of the half that's left.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 2:07 PM on September 3 [2 favorites]
What's fascinating about cannabis is that it really is different for everyone. What may work for you may not work for someone else and vice versa. The commonality is the euphoria ("the high"). Edibles give a more intense effect as they have to pass through the liver to form 11-OH-THC. It's why they also last so long too. But even then! You could eat the same edible every day and your high could differ because of so many things: how you slept, your metabolism, what you ate. Your enocannabinoid system is always seeking homeostasis so how you experience cannabis may not be the same every day either.
Smoking weed does give you a more intense high than edibles but it is very short lived. A few hits off a joint will impair you for about 2 to 3 hours. There is at least 10 to 30 percent bioavailability in this method. While I know this method is not great for me, I do love the ritual of it. I own a Pax and I should use it more!
Sublinguals, quick onset beverages...these will be close to the length of a typical edible buzz.
posted by Kitteh at 2:08 PM on September 3 [2 favorites]
Smoking weed does give you a more intense high than edibles but it is very short lived. A few hits off a joint will impair you for about 2 to 3 hours. There is at least 10 to 30 percent bioavailability in this method. While I know this method is not great for me, I do love the ritual of it. I own a Pax and I should use it more!
Sublinguals, quick onset beverages...these will be close to the length of a typical edible buzz.
posted by Kitteh at 2:08 PM on September 3 [2 favorites]
The funny thing is that currently, if you buy the legal product here you have much less of an idea what the quality will be than if you can get it illegally.
The legal product is underregulated for sure but what would possibly imply that the quality of the illegal product is better or more knowable? This is a weird claim that you didn’t really support.
Returning to one of my main themes here, in my experience coming from one of the more cannabis-friendly parts of the country - or the world, probably - is that things post-legalization just don’t feel that different. In a sense that’s not really a surprise because we really slow-walked right up to legalization. It is disappointing how grey-market it still can feel but then in the eyes of the law it still is, and on the flip side it predictably hasn’t been a disaster or anything. Parts of the country where it happened on a shorter timeline are probably experiencing more culture shock but they’ll be okay.
posted by atoxyl at 2:20 PM on September 3 [2 favorites]
The legal product is underregulated for sure but what would possibly imply that the quality of the illegal product is better or more knowable? This is a weird claim that you didn’t really support.
Returning to one of my main themes here, in my experience coming from one of the more cannabis-friendly parts of the country - or the world, probably - is that things post-legalization just don’t feel that different. In a sense that’s not really a surprise because we really slow-walked right up to legalization. It is disappointing how grey-market it still can feel but then in the eyes of the law it still is, and on the flip side it predictably hasn’t been a disaster or anything. Parts of the country where it happened on a shorter timeline are probably experiencing more culture shock but they’ll be okay.
posted by atoxyl at 2:20 PM on September 3 [2 favorites]
I would love a MeFi IRL with yall where we smoked out/edibled and talked about cannabis til the wee hours. :)
As long as there's pancakes, I'm in.
I'm surprised folks can't find low-THC product. My local little town has 2 recreational stores, and they both have flower as low as 12%. (...aaaaand up to 36%)
I'm fortunate to be able to grow in my own yard, so I can make my own product. On the other hand, I have no idea what how strong it is.
Mostly I make cookies, and while the batch is pretty consistent, different batches vary wildly.
I prefer:
1)- cookies. A good night's sleep, and if before dinner, a cookie plus wine puts me in a place that feels perfect
2)- joints. The highest high in a quick form
3)- home-made bong. Maybe rolling paper adds to the high??
4)- PAX3. Nice and discrete, but nowhere near the same high as in a bong. I'm wondering if I'm doing it wrong.
posted by MtDewd at 2:52 PM on September 3 [1 favorite]
As long as there's pancakes, I'm in.
I'm surprised folks can't find low-THC product. My local little town has 2 recreational stores, and they both have flower as low as 12%. (...aaaaand up to 36%)
I'm fortunate to be able to grow in my own yard, so I can make my own product. On the other hand, I have no idea what how strong it is.
Mostly I make cookies, and while the batch is pretty consistent, different batches vary wildly.
I prefer:
1)- cookies. A good night's sleep, and if before dinner, a cookie plus wine puts me in a place that feels perfect
2)- joints. The highest high in a quick form
3)- home-made bong. Maybe rolling paper adds to the high??
4)- PAX3. Nice and discrete, but nowhere near the same high as in a bong. I'm wondering if I'm doing it wrong.
posted by MtDewd at 2:52 PM on September 3 [1 favorite]
So I'm a cannabis researcher and a family doc. I wish there were a rich body of research comparing cannabis to other medications I typically use to treat pain, anxiety, &c. Unfortunately (and possibly nefariously), federal regulations make it nearly impossible and incredibly expensive to run these studies. I'm doing my best, but it's a long road.
I agree with the findings that THC % has increased substantially since the 1990s, from something like 4% to ~16%. We assume that this means that more THC is finding its way into folks' bloodstreams, but dose measurement with inhaled cannabis is fraught. Nevertheless, in my clinical practice I've noticed an uptick in folks who are consuming truly heroic amounts of cannabis, sometimes more than an eighth of an ounce a day of the high-octane stuff.
I've got plenty patients where that's the right dose (eg serious chronic pain despite multiple rounds of specialists and physical therapy where the cannabis allows them to recover some function while avoiding more dangerous meds. However, a large proportion of my patients on high-dose THC are doing so for conditions that seem to be more responsive to lower doses. Anxiety, for instance, seems to have a bi-phasic dose-response curve where low doses (especially with 1:1 or greater CBD:THC ratios) relieve anxiety but high doses exacerbate it.
For folks with really severe anxiety, it's sometimes tough to know what's working and what isn't, so when they show up in my clinic with worsening function despite increasing their cannabis dose ad nauseam and ask me for help, I usually recommend a tolerance break. Cannabis withdrawal syndrome is no joke, but there are ways to mitigate it and often when folks get past the 1-2 week mark they start to feel better. This guide by Tom Fontana at UVM has been really helpful and allows folks the space to re-evaluate their relationship with the substance and return to it with more intention.
From a regulatory perspective and despite my reservations above, the phenomenon of increased consumption is not a strong argument against legalization, decriminalization, or other attempts to end this country's disastrous relationship with prohibition. Those efforts only ever seem to make the problem worse and punish the most vulnerable. The trick, as it almost always is in this country, is finding ways to prevent capital from taking something good and poisoning us with too much of it. Maybe Friar Lawrence had it right all along:
posted by Richard Saunders at 3:32 PM on September 3 [25 favorites]
I agree with the findings that THC % has increased substantially since the 1990s, from something like 4% to ~16%. We assume that this means that more THC is finding its way into folks' bloodstreams, but dose measurement with inhaled cannabis is fraught. Nevertheless, in my clinical practice I've noticed an uptick in folks who are consuming truly heroic amounts of cannabis, sometimes more than an eighth of an ounce a day of the high-octane stuff.
I've got plenty patients where that's the right dose (eg serious chronic pain despite multiple rounds of specialists and physical therapy where the cannabis allows them to recover some function while avoiding more dangerous meds. However, a large proportion of my patients on high-dose THC are doing so for conditions that seem to be more responsive to lower doses. Anxiety, for instance, seems to have a bi-phasic dose-response curve where low doses (especially with 1:1 or greater CBD:THC ratios) relieve anxiety but high doses exacerbate it.
For folks with really severe anxiety, it's sometimes tough to know what's working and what isn't, so when they show up in my clinic with worsening function despite increasing their cannabis dose ad nauseam and ask me for help, I usually recommend a tolerance break. Cannabis withdrawal syndrome is no joke, but there are ways to mitigate it and often when folks get past the 1-2 week mark they start to feel better. This guide by Tom Fontana at UVM has been really helpful and allows folks the space to re-evaluate their relationship with the substance and return to it with more intention.
From a regulatory perspective and despite my reservations above, the phenomenon of increased consumption is not a strong argument against legalization, decriminalization, or other attempts to end this country's disastrous relationship with prohibition. Those efforts only ever seem to make the problem worse and punish the most vulnerable. The trick, as it almost always is in this country, is finding ways to prevent capital from taking something good and poisoning us with too much of it. Maybe Friar Lawrence had it right all along:
O, mickle is the powerful grace that lies
In plants, herbs, stones, and their true qualities.
For nought so vile that on the earth doth live,
But to the earth some special good doth give;
Nor aught so good but, strained from that fair use,
Revolts from true birth, stumbling on abuse.
Virtue itself turns vice, being misapplied;
And vice sometime, by action, dignified.
posted by Richard Saunders at 3:32 PM on September 3 [25 favorites]
That Tom Fontana guide is fantastic. I like to do at least three extended tolerance breaks throughout the year, and smaller ones in between.
Thank you for the great comment, Richard Saunders!
posted by Kitteh at 4:12 PM on September 3 [3 favorites]
Thank you for the great comment, Richard Saunders!
posted by Kitteh at 4:12 PM on September 3 [3 favorites]
One thing that is genuinely new, I think, is cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome. I feel certain that this is a product of the post-2012 environment. I can remember the first time I read of a case, and the description called it something like "paradoxical cannabis-induced hyperemesis" because it did seem paradoxical. Everybody knows pot gives you the munchies! Cancer patients use it to keep chemotherapy from starving them to death! How could it make you barf?
That is such a good question, aardvark cheeselog, and I think we can figure out the answer by looking at another hyperemesis syndrome, hyperemesis of pregnancy (hyperemesis gravidarum), for which I’ve collected a few anecdotes to the effect that it’s caused when the fetus mechanically interferes with intestinal motility, bringing things to a screeching halt, so to speak. I don’t know whether other people think that, but it makes sense to me that your body might have a program to eliminate GI contents behind a blockage to keep things from getting worse, or even life threatening from something like a twisted bowel.
So does cannabis have the potential to stop perstalsis in your bowels?
Very possibly, apparently:
posted by jamjam at 9:17 PM on September 3 [2 favorites]
That is such a good question, aardvark cheeselog, and I think we can figure out the answer by looking at another hyperemesis syndrome, hyperemesis of pregnancy (hyperemesis gravidarum), for which I’ve collected a few anecdotes to the effect that it’s caused when the fetus mechanically interferes with intestinal motility, bringing things to a screeching halt, so to speak. I don’t know whether other people think that, but it makes sense to me that your body might have a program to eliminate GI contents behind a blockage to keep things from getting worse, or even life threatening from something like a twisted bowel.
So does cannabis have the potential to stop perstalsis in your bowels?
Very possibly, apparently:
Historically, cannabis has been associated with decreased gastrointestinal motility, although recent research strongly suggests a paradoxical clinical improvement in gastroparesis.And you might argue that it would take a lot to stop peristalsis altogether, and that's why we didn’t see it until the super strains showed up.
posted by jamjam at 9:17 PM on September 3 [2 favorites]
Are the perils of smoking present when using a vape pen with cartridges?
posted by Ber at 9:17 PM on September 3 [1 favorite]
posted by Ber at 9:17 PM on September 3 [1 favorite]
The trick, as it almost always is in this country, is finding ways to prevent capital from taking something good and poisoning us with too much of it
...for which purpose the method most often employed involves "refining" things that were already perfectly fine to begin with.
posted by flabdablet at 9:33 PM on September 3 [1 favorite]
...for which purpose the method most often employed involves "refining" things that were already perfectly fine to begin with.
posted by flabdablet at 9:33 PM on September 3 [1 favorite]
"Littering and... Littering and... Littering and...? Smokin' the reefer"
And all the states are doing their own things in terms of rules, regulations, and who can own weed shops. And I have pretty much stopped smoking pot. But at least here in Washington, it is just so cheap. I could likely go buy an eighth of 25% weed for $12 bucks right now. And our weed is tested. So, why would I buy lower percentage weed, when I can get high percent stuff, and just smoke less of it so it lasts longer?
Seems pretty much a win, albeit with those that don't moderate may have serious issues. But my "told you I was hardcore" days are so far in the past.
I can only recall two times in the last 15 years or so when I was like, "holy shit, I'm really high". And one of those involved THC crystals on top of the bowl. And despite being fairly accustomed to being high, that one was an eye-opener. "I AM REALLY FUCKING HIGH". Likely won't repeat that experience.
It will take many years for the medical science on cannabis to catch up I think.
posted by Windopaene at 10:00 AM on September 4 [1 favorite]
And all the states are doing their own things in terms of rules, regulations, and who can own weed shops. And I have pretty much stopped smoking pot. But at least here in Washington, it is just so cheap. I could likely go buy an eighth of 25% weed for $12 bucks right now. And our weed is tested. So, why would I buy lower percentage weed, when I can get high percent stuff, and just smoke less of it so it lasts longer?
Seems pretty much a win, albeit with those that don't moderate may have serious issues. But my "told you I was hardcore" days are so far in the past.
I can only recall two times in the last 15 years or so when I was like, "holy shit, I'm really high". And one of those involved THC crystals on top of the bowl. And despite being fairly accustomed to being high, that one was an eye-opener. "I AM REALLY FUCKING HIGH". Likely won't repeat that experience.
It will take many years for the medical science on cannabis to catch up I think.
posted by Windopaene at 10:00 AM on September 4 [1 favorite]
why would I buy lower percentage weed, when I can get high percent stuff
For me, the answer to that question depends on the quality of the stone offered by the two strains being compared by it rather than the absolute dosage required to achieve that stone. If music pours out of my fingers for the lower percentage weed but all that the high percentage one can offer is varying degrees of couch lock, then obviously I'm going for the lower percentage weed.
posted by flabdablet at 11:14 AM on September 4 [2 favorites]
For me, the answer to that question depends on the quality of the stone offered by the two strains being compared by it rather than the absolute dosage required to achieve that stone. If music pours out of my fingers for the lower percentage weed but all that the high percentage one can offer is varying degrees of couch lock, then obviously I'm going for the lower percentage weed.
posted by flabdablet at 11:14 AM on September 4 [2 favorites]
why would I buy lower percentage weed, when I can get high percent stuff
why would I drink a 4.5% stout when I can get a double proof bourbon?
posted by philip-random at 11:30 AM on September 4 [4 favorites]
why would I drink a 4.5% stout when I can get a double proof bourbon?
posted by philip-random at 11:30 AM on September 4 [4 favorites]
Because you can water down the double proof bourbon to 4.5%! Just think of the money you'd save! And if you bought bulk industrial ethanol instead of bourbon, you'd save even more!
posted by flabdablet at 11:32 AM on September 4 [4 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 11:32 AM on September 4 [4 favorites]
but would it taste any good?
posted by philip-random at 11:47 AM on September 4 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 11:47 AM on September 4 [1 favorite]
It's how they make most hard liquor so, yes?
posted by stet at 12:06 PM on September 4 [2 favorites]
posted by stet at 12:06 PM on September 4 [2 favorites]
My method of handling this is combining a pinch of high test weed into a bowl of a strain I love but has less kick. Now that I can try different things and not depend on whatever "they guy" has on hand, I've discovered I really enjoy sativas. I've had a ton of personal bullshit this past year, and the best therapy has been to smoke a bowl and work in the garden. Love that some of my favorite strains have been mentioned here.
posted by lilywing13 at 4:42 PM on September 4 [1 favorite]
posted by lilywing13 at 4:42 PM on September 4 [1 favorite]
Because you can water down the double proof bourbon to 4.5%!
It’s called “making a drink.”
(okay I assume the real point here is that it makes sense for there to be a niche for both higher and lower strength products and I agree, I like being able to actually smoke a joint between two people).
posted by atoxyl at 12:30 PM on September 5 [1 favorite]
It’s called “making a drink.”
(okay I assume the real point here is that it makes sense for there to be a niche for both higher and lower strength products and I agree, I like being able to actually smoke a joint between two people).
posted by atoxyl at 12:30 PM on September 5 [1 favorite]
The real point is that if you went into a pub and asked for a stout, and what you got instead was a pint of Coke with enough Everclear in it to make it up to 4.5% alcohol, you'd be annoyed. And if you then visited your favourite online discussion forum and complained about this pub, and got told that what you'd been served basically is a stout because look! 4.5%! And it's even dark and fizzy! then you'd probably conclude that the folks saying that had no clue what stout is for.
posted by flabdablet at 12:44 PM on September 5 [3 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 12:44 PM on September 5 [3 favorites]
I asked a guy at a bar for a pint of Coke, and he was like 'uh, okay, how much is that in grams?'
posted by box at 12:55 PM on September 5 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 12:55 PM on September 5 [2 favorites]
The end of this month we will travel to MN and I intend to visit the dispensary at Prairie Island. What should I ask for? I worry that with her anxiety, some strains or delivery systems might give her a Loooooooooong anxiety attack. So, what should I be seeking?
So... I would go for edibles that can be taken in small, SMALL amounts, that are more CBD than THC. A CBD product she could microdose- something like this with minimal thc. I would look for products with a tiny bit of CBD, and not weird hemp stuff but things made by companies that sell in California or anywhere else with more rigorous testing. I also wouldn't expect immediate results.
posted by oneirodynia at 4:34 PM on September 5 [2 favorites]
So... I would go for edibles that can be taken in small, SMALL amounts, that are more CBD than THC. A CBD product she could microdose- something like this with minimal thc. I would look for products with a tiny bit of CBD, and not weird hemp stuff but things made by companies that sell in California or anywhere else with more rigorous testing. I also wouldn't expect immediate results.
posted by oneirodynia at 4:34 PM on September 5 [2 favorites]
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