US and the Middle East
September 12, 2024 7:08 AM Subscribe
The Washington Post challenges Biden's claim that Turkish-American activist Aysenur Eygi's death was due to an accidental ricochet with new video and eyewitnesses. (archive.is) The Biden administration has released $1.3 billion in military aid to Egypt, overriding human rights concerns, citing Egypt's assistance with Gaza talks. Brown University held the first of two forums on the issue of divestment and the advisory committee is expected to issue a recommendation within the next three weeks, to be voted on in October. Various colleges and universities have issued new restrictions on protest and free expression on their campuses, including limiting the use of masks, ban on encampments, and more. (archive.is) UC Berkeley is launching a new Palestinian and Arab studies program this fall due to demand.
Speaking of academic boycotts, Healthcare Workers for Palestine launched a new campaign today to call on academic workers to refuse funds from Len Blavatnik, an oligarch who uses massive donations to manipulate policy and profits from Israeli apartheid.
posted by latkes at 7:36 AM on September 12 [5 favorites]
posted by latkes at 7:36 AM on September 12 [5 favorites]
Sharing links previously share in the current Palestine thread:
HuffPost: A Secretive Conference About The Middle East’s Future Featured No Palestinians -
The Middle East-America Dialogue summit concluded over cocktails on Monday night as Israel launched strikes on a tent camp of displaced Palestinians in Gaza
Haaretz opinion (ungated): America's Support of Netanyahu Is Killing Us All -
In their insistence on uncritical support for Israel's actions, and in stark contrast to the Israelis protesting the deaths of hostages whom the government could have saved, American Jews are actually bolstering Israel's worst enemy – Netanyahu
--- new links --
CAIR posted a follow-up report to its August poll that showed Stein leading in a few states amongst its respondents of Muslim voters (this is before the debate) (PDF)
Key survey findings from the press release:
- Overall: CAIR’s initial August 25-27 survey revealed that 29.4% of American Muslims plan to vote for Kamala Harris of the Democratic Party, virtually tied with Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party, who follows closely with 29.1%. At the same time, Donald Trump of the Republican Party garners 11.2% of the vote, and Dr. Cornel West of the People’s Party receives 4.2%. Chase Oliver of the Libertarian Party has less than 1% support, with 16.5% of respondents remaining undecided.
- Battleground States: Dr. Stein is leading Harris in Arizona (35%) Michigan (40%) and Wisconsin (44%), while Harris leads Stein in Georgia (43%) and Pennsylvania (37%). Trump’s highest support is observed in Nevada (27%), just ahead of Harris (26%).
- Gender: Kamala Harris leads among Muslim male voters with 29%, while Dr. Jill Stein holds a stronger position among Muslim women at 34%. Donald Trump has similar levels of support among men (14%) and women (10%). Additionally, a higher proportion of men (17%) are undecided compared to women (16%).
- Racial Demographics: Kamala Harris is supported by 55.3% of Black Muslim voters, 28% of Asian Muslims, and 25.6% of White, Arab, and Turkic Muslims. Dr. Jill Stein is supported by 32.7% of White, Arab, and Turkic Muslim voters, 25.7% of Asian Muslims, and 11.2% of Black Muslim voters. Donald Trump is supported by 12.8% of White, Arab, and Turkic Muslims, 12.6% of Asian Muslims, and 9.8% of Black Muslim voters.
- Party Affiliation: Harris slightly leads among Democrats (33%) and Independents (30%), while Dr. Stein also garners significant support from these groups (32% and 28% respectively). Donald Trump’s highest support comes from Republicans (48%).
- Likelihood of Voting: Harris attracts a higher proportion of high-likelihood voters (33%), whereas Dr. Stein has a significant share of moderate-likelihood voters (65%). Trump’s support is concentrated among high-likelihood voters (13%).
- Support for Third Parties: Overall, support for third-party candidates (Stein and West) comes from both Muslim Democrats and Republicans, indicating discontent with both parties’ platforms on the issues that Muslim Americans prioritize.
---
In the meantime, re: that Egypt aid, Dr Anelle Sheline (MidEast fellow at Quincy Institute): To be clear, Egypt's human right record has not improved in the slightest
This is about bribing Egypt to continue to participate in U.S. policy towards Palestine, which equates to facilitating the ongoing genocide in Gaza
I can't seem to find non-twt copy of this portion, this is from Christiane Amanpour's show, per their official twt account today: Kamala Harris was “not able to seal the deal” on Gaza: Latino USA anchor @Maria_Hinojosa says that, for young American voters of color, the critical foreign policy issue is Gaza, not Ukraine.
Still, apparently Harris did put out a statement on Ayşenur Eygi, per this press release earlier today. Hopeful tea leaf readers might take heart?
The killing of Aysenur Eygi is a horrific tragedy that never should have happened. Doug and I are keeping her family and loved ones in our prayers. Aysenur was peacefully protesting in the West Bank—standing up against the expansion of settlements—when her young life was senselessly cut short. No one should be killed for participating in a peaceful protest. The shooting that led to her death is unacceptable and raises legitimate questions about the conduct of IDF personnel in the West Bank. Israel must do more to ensure that incidents like this never happen again.
Israel’s preliminary investigation indicated it was the result of a tragic error for which the IDF is responsible. We will continue to press the government of Israel for answers and for continued access to the findings of the investigation so we can have confidence in the results. There must be full accountability.
The United States will continue to hold accountable anyone in the West Bank – Israelis and Palestinians – who stokes violence and undermines peace and stability.
THR exclusive: Mark Ruffalo, Ramy Youssef and More Call on SAG-AFTRA Leaders to Protect Pro-Palestine Members From Being Blacklisted (Exclusive) -
More than 700 union members signed the open letter that also called for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza and condemned violence against journalists.
In the meantime, from last week: (Guardian) Aid agency insiders claim BBC ‘blocking’ Gaza humanitarian appeal -
Disasters Emergency Committee sources say BBC fears backlash from those supportive of Israel’s war with Hamas
With editorial actions like that, idk why Israel has to be afraid of. Might as well accede to this editorial demand from Haaretz: Why Is Israel Afraid to Allow Foreign Journalists in Gaza? What's It Hiding?
posted by cendawanita at 8:21 AM on September 12 [10 favorites]
HuffPost: A Secretive Conference About The Middle East’s Future Featured No Palestinians -
The Middle East-America Dialogue summit concluded over cocktails on Monday night as Israel launched strikes on a tent camp of displaced Palestinians in Gaza
Haaretz opinion (ungated): America's Support of Netanyahu Is Killing Us All -
In their insistence on uncritical support for Israel's actions, and in stark contrast to the Israelis protesting the deaths of hostages whom the government could have saved, American Jews are actually bolstering Israel's worst enemy – Netanyahu
--- new links --
CAIR posted a follow-up report to its August poll that showed Stein leading in a few states amongst its respondents of Muslim voters (this is before the debate) (PDF)
Key survey findings from the press release:
- Overall: CAIR’s initial August 25-27 survey revealed that 29.4% of American Muslims plan to vote for Kamala Harris of the Democratic Party, virtually tied with Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party, who follows closely with 29.1%. At the same time, Donald Trump of the Republican Party garners 11.2% of the vote, and Dr. Cornel West of the People’s Party receives 4.2%. Chase Oliver of the Libertarian Party has less than 1% support, with 16.5% of respondents remaining undecided.
- Battleground States: Dr. Stein is leading Harris in Arizona (35%) Michigan (40%) and Wisconsin (44%), while Harris leads Stein in Georgia (43%) and Pennsylvania (37%). Trump’s highest support is observed in Nevada (27%), just ahead of Harris (26%).
- Gender: Kamala Harris leads among Muslim male voters with 29%, while Dr. Jill Stein holds a stronger position among Muslim women at 34%. Donald Trump has similar levels of support among men (14%) and women (10%). Additionally, a higher proportion of men (17%) are undecided compared to women (16%).
- Racial Demographics: Kamala Harris is supported by 55.3% of Black Muslim voters, 28% of Asian Muslims, and 25.6% of White, Arab, and Turkic Muslims. Dr. Jill Stein is supported by 32.7% of White, Arab, and Turkic Muslim voters, 25.7% of Asian Muslims, and 11.2% of Black Muslim voters. Donald Trump is supported by 12.8% of White, Arab, and Turkic Muslims, 12.6% of Asian Muslims, and 9.8% of Black Muslim voters.
- Party Affiliation: Harris slightly leads among Democrats (33%) and Independents (30%), while Dr. Stein also garners significant support from these groups (32% and 28% respectively). Donald Trump’s highest support comes from Republicans (48%).
- Likelihood of Voting: Harris attracts a higher proportion of high-likelihood voters (33%), whereas Dr. Stein has a significant share of moderate-likelihood voters (65%). Trump’s support is concentrated among high-likelihood voters (13%).
- Support for Third Parties: Overall, support for third-party candidates (Stein and West) comes from both Muslim Democrats and Republicans, indicating discontent with both parties’ platforms on the issues that Muslim Americans prioritize.
---
In the meantime, re: that Egypt aid, Dr Anelle Sheline (MidEast fellow at Quincy Institute): To be clear, Egypt's human right record has not improved in the slightest
This is about bribing Egypt to continue to participate in U.S. policy towards Palestine, which equates to facilitating the ongoing genocide in Gaza
I can't seem to find non-twt copy of this portion, this is from Christiane Amanpour's show, per their official twt account today: Kamala Harris was “not able to seal the deal” on Gaza: Latino USA anchor @Maria_Hinojosa says that, for young American voters of color, the critical foreign policy issue is Gaza, not Ukraine.
Still, apparently Harris did put out a statement on Ayşenur Eygi, per this press release earlier today. Hopeful tea leaf readers might take heart?
The killing of Aysenur Eygi is a horrific tragedy that never should have happened. Doug and I are keeping her family and loved ones in our prayers. Aysenur was peacefully protesting in the West Bank—standing up against the expansion of settlements—when her young life was senselessly cut short. No one should be killed for participating in a peaceful protest. The shooting that led to her death is unacceptable and raises legitimate questions about the conduct of IDF personnel in the West Bank. Israel must do more to ensure that incidents like this never happen again.
Israel’s preliminary investigation indicated it was the result of a tragic error for which the IDF is responsible. We will continue to press the government of Israel for answers and for continued access to the findings of the investigation so we can have confidence in the results. There must be full accountability.
The United States will continue to hold accountable anyone in the West Bank – Israelis and Palestinians – who stokes violence and undermines peace and stability.
THR exclusive: Mark Ruffalo, Ramy Youssef and More Call on SAG-AFTRA Leaders to Protect Pro-Palestine Members From Being Blacklisted (Exclusive) -
More than 700 union members signed the open letter that also called for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza and condemned violence against journalists.
In the meantime, from last week: (Guardian) Aid agency insiders claim BBC ‘blocking’ Gaza humanitarian appeal -
Disasters Emergency Committee sources say BBC fears backlash from those supportive of Israel’s war with Hamas
With editorial actions like that, idk why Israel has to be afraid of. Might as well accede to this editorial demand from Haaretz: Why Is Israel Afraid to Allow Foreign Journalists in Gaza? What's It Hiding?
posted by cendawanita at 8:21 AM on September 12 [10 favorites]
I can absolutely sympathize with not wanting to support the Biden Administration's position on the issue, but not only is Jill Stein a terrible human being and a puppet of Vladimir Putin, but voting for her makes it easier for Trump to win and he'll let Netanyahu turn Gaza into glass, so that seems like a textbook example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:34 AM on September 12 [26 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:34 AM on September 12 [26 favorites]
The Brown divestment thing is going to leave everyone very angry. It is likely going to result in a recommendation to divest that will infuriate supporters of Israel, and which the Board will accordingly reject, infuriating opponents of Israel.
posted by MattD at 8:45 AM on September 12 [4 favorites]
posted by MattD at 8:45 AM on September 12 [4 favorites]
I can absolutely sympathize with not wanting to support the Biden Administration's position on the issue, but not only is Jill Stein a terrible human being and a puppet of Vladimir Putin, but voting for her makes it easier for Trump to win and he'll let Netanyahu turn Gaza into glass, so that seems like a textbook example of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
If Harris looses were going to hear a lot of dems blame muslims in Michigan rather than blaming Dem policy for alienating people who are otherwise predisposed to vote for them.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 9:02 AM on September 12 [24 favorites]
If Harris looses were going to hear a lot of dems blame muslims in Michigan rather than blaming Dem policy for alienating people who are otherwise predisposed to vote for them.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 9:02 AM on September 12 [24 favorites]
but not only is Jill Stein a terrible human being and a puppet of Vladimir Putin,
Absolutely agree.
but voting for her makes it easier for Trump to win and he'll let Netanyahu turn Gaza into glass
Uh, is it possible to come up with another angle of attack that's more hmmm, in recognition of the fact that we will likely see a full year and a bit of decimation before some theoretical change comes in? Because otherwise, in the span of time, I'd say Biden has done so much to make sure the next beachfront condo development gets to put in their foundation uninterrupted. I guess by then Jared just gets to claim credit. And from my pov, at least when it's Trump, institutional-level pushback would actually exist, if not inside America, then definitely outside of it.
posted by cendawanita at 9:03 AM on September 12 [9 favorites]
Absolutely agree.
but voting for her makes it easier for Trump to win and he'll let Netanyahu turn Gaza into glass
Uh, is it possible to come up with another angle of attack that's more hmmm, in recognition of the fact that we will likely see a full year and a bit of decimation before some theoretical change comes in? Because otherwise, in the span of time, I'd say Biden has done so much to make sure the next beachfront condo development gets to put in their foundation uninterrupted. I guess by then Jared just gets to claim credit. And from my pov, at least when it's Trump, institutional-level pushback would actually exist, if not inside America, then definitely outside of it.
posted by cendawanita at 9:03 AM on September 12 [9 favorites]
Like, Biden now holds the record for having the presidency that has an Israel rampaging in the Occupied Palestinian Territories at such a lengthy period by a factor of tens-fold, if not hundreds (if we do by day). In order to do so, he's pretty much made a mockery of American domestic law, the precedence of which can absolutely be used by a Russia stooge, and maybe next time, someone who could actually run a political campaign.
posted by cendawanita at 9:06 AM on September 12 [12 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 9:06 AM on September 12 [12 favorites]
Oh and speaking of Russia stooges:
ToI: Israeli pleads guilty to shipping US-made avionics to Russia, violating sanctions -
US Justice Department says Gal Haimovich sent aircraft tech, some of it with missile applications, worth $2 million to Russian customers, violating export controls amid Ukraine war
Still looking for an update on this, but this is the latest: (CNBC) Norway wealth fund may divest companies that aid Israel in Gaza war, occupied territories
International Crisis Group's new report on how to curb/address the settler violence: 'Outside powers invested in resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict should sanction violent settlers, as some Western countries have started doing, and officials enabling violence. They should curb sales of weapons used in violation of international law and raise the cost the Israeli government pays for settler violence and the settlement project.'
Since October 2023, the West Bank has taken a back seat to the war and humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza, exchanges of fire on the Israel-Lebanon border and fears of a wider Middle East war. Yet the settlement expansion and surging settler violence in the West Bank is fuelling Palestinian militancy and upping the likelihood of a larger outbreak of violence there. Western powers appear reluctant to take stronger action; in the U.S., in particular, any change in policy may have to wait until after the November elections and what is feasible then will almost certainly hinge on the results. For their part, European capitals are split on how to respond. Yet Western leaders’ repeated calls for a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict based on two states have long rung hollow absent firmer measures to check the settlements that are killing off hope of Palestinian statehood.
Methodology note: "This report takes a close look at the roots and drivers of settler violence, the reasons for its recent acceleration, its ties to Israeli government aims and the impediments it creates to efforts at achieving a just, sustainable peace between Israel and the Palestinians. It also offers recommendations for how Israel’s Western partners can better impose costs on the Israeli government for supporting and enabling this behaviour. It draws on dozens of interviews with Israeli, Palestinian and U.S. officials, local representatives and leaders, academics, legal and human rights experts, as well as Israeli settlers and Palestinian West Bank residents. The majority of the interviewees were men, reflecting a gendered power divide in this conflict both at the government level and on the ground."
Silver lining I guess: Private donations boost UN support for war-torn Gaza
(Well, until it's made illegal in western democracies to donate to UNRWA, or rather a terrorist-supporting organization.)
(Reminder that: "All donors, except the US, have since resumed funding.")
Missed sharing this Hollywood news from last week: Mark Ruffalo, Mahershala Ali, Cynthia Nixon and Ilana Glazer Among Stars Calling for Halt to Illegal Weapons Transfers to Israel in New Artists4Ceasefire Initiative: ‘Enough Is Enough’ (EXCLUSIVE)
And also: After Mayor Whitmire accused pro-Palestinian organizers of ‘being paid by Iran,’ City of Houston says it has no documentation to back up his claim
Remember the Houthis? Unherd: The Houthis now rule the Red Sea -America has silently admitted defeat
Today, the blockade is stronger than ever, and the American military has given up on trying to lift it. Just a fortnight ago, faced with a deterrent bolstered by zero US aircraft carriers, the Houthis managed to board a Greek-flagged oil tanker, plant some explosives, and chant “Death to America! Death to Israel!” as the vessel went up in flames. Last week, the Pentagon quietly admitted that the tanker is still on fire and now appears to be leaking oil.
This should probably be huge news: one of the most important trade routes in the world is now blocked by a rag-tag group of militants, and the US Navy has thrown its hands up in defeat and sailed away. And yet, we just don’t want to talk about it.
The reason for this seems to be fairly straightforward: more than just sharing a sense of growing embarrassment, we no longer know how to talk about what’s going on. After all, America’s Navy is supposed to be the most powerful Navy in the world. As every war film of the past two decades has insisted on reminding us, all it takes is a single aircraft carrier to force a developing nation to its knees. America might not be great at “nation-building”, but boy does it know how to bomb things until all resistance stops.
posted by cendawanita at 9:36 AM on September 12 [9 favorites]
ToI: Israeli pleads guilty to shipping US-made avionics to Russia, violating sanctions -
US Justice Department says Gal Haimovich sent aircraft tech, some of it with missile applications, worth $2 million to Russian customers, violating export controls amid Ukraine war
Still looking for an update on this, but this is the latest: (CNBC) Norway wealth fund may divest companies that aid Israel in Gaza war, occupied territories
International Crisis Group's new report on how to curb/address the settler violence: 'Outside powers invested in resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict should sanction violent settlers, as some Western countries have started doing, and officials enabling violence. They should curb sales of weapons used in violation of international law and raise the cost the Israeli government pays for settler violence and the settlement project.'
Since October 2023, the West Bank has taken a back seat to the war and humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza, exchanges of fire on the Israel-Lebanon border and fears of a wider Middle East war. Yet the settlement expansion and surging settler violence in the West Bank is fuelling Palestinian militancy and upping the likelihood of a larger outbreak of violence there. Western powers appear reluctant to take stronger action; in the U.S., in particular, any change in policy may have to wait until after the November elections and what is feasible then will almost certainly hinge on the results. For their part, European capitals are split on how to respond. Yet Western leaders’ repeated calls for a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict based on two states have long rung hollow absent firmer measures to check the settlements that are killing off hope of Palestinian statehood.
Methodology note: "This report takes a close look at the roots and drivers of settler violence, the reasons for its recent acceleration, its ties to Israeli government aims and the impediments it creates to efforts at achieving a just, sustainable peace between Israel and the Palestinians. It also offers recommendations for how Israel’s Western partners can better impose costs on the Israeli government for supporting and enabling this behaviour. It draws on dozens of interviews with Israeli, Palestinian and U.S. officials, local representatives and leaders, academics, legal and human rights experts, as well as Israeli settlers and Palestinian West Bank residents. The majority of the interviewees were men, reflecting a gendered power divide in this conflict both at the government level and on the ground."
Silver lining I guess: Private donations boost UN support for war-torn Gaza
(Well, until it's made illegal in western democracies to donate to UNRWA, or rather a terrorist-supporting organization.)
(Reminder that: "All donors, except the US, have since resumed funding.")
Missed sharing this Hollywood news from last week: Mark Ruffalo, Mahershala Ali, Cynthia Nixon and Ilana Glazer Among Stars Calling for Halt to Illegal Weapons Transfers to Israel in New Artists4Ceasefire Initiative: ‘Enough Is Enough’ (EXCLUSIVE)
And also: After Mayor Whitmire accused pro-Palestinian organizers of ‘being paid by Iran,’ City of Houston says it has no documentation to back up his claim
Remember the Houthis? Unherd: The Houthis now rule the Red Sea -America has silently admitted defeat
Today, the blockade is stronger than ever, and the American military has given up on trying to lift it. Just a fortnight ago, faced with a deterrent bolstered by zero US aircraft carriers, the Houthis managed to board a Greek-flagged oil tanker, plant some explosives, and chant “Death to America! Death to Israel!” as the vessel went up in flames. Last week, the Pentagon quietly admitted that the tanker is still on fire and now appears to be leaking oil.
This should probably be huge news: one of the most important trade routes in the world is now blocked by a rag-tag group of militants, and the US Navy has thrown its hands up in defeat and sailed away. And yet, we just don’t want to talk about it.
The reason for this seems to be fairly straightforward: more than just sharing a sense of growing embarrassment, we no longer know how to talk about what’s going on. After all, America’s Navy is supposed to be the most powerful Navy in the world. As every war film of the past two decades has insisted on reminding us, all it takes is a single aircraft carrier to force a developing nation to its knees. America might not be great at “nation-building”, but boy does it know how to bomb things until all resistance stops.
posted by cendawanita at 9:36 AM on September 12 [9 favorites]
voting for her makes it easier for Trump to win and he'll let Netanyahu turn Gaza into glass, so that seems like a textbook example of cutting off your nose to spite your face
If he were to take office, Trump would be too busy imprisoning and murdering political opponents and anyone else in the way ("antifa", trans and gay people). It's beyond giving Netanyahu carte blanche and beyond nose-cutting, to enabling genocide on a whole other scale. Accelerationism will get a lot more innocent people killed.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:38 AM on September 12 [3 favorites]
If he were to take office, Trump would be too busy imprisoning and murdering political opponents and anyone else in the way ("antifa", trans and gay people). It's beyond giving Netanyahu carte blanche and beyond nose-cutting, to enabling genocide on a whole other scale. Accelerationism will get a lot more innocent people killed.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 9:38 AM on September 12 [3 favorites]
Can we have a moratorium on the straw man that critiques of Biden = support of Trump? This has been litigated endlessly here and elsewhere and no one here wants Trump to be president. No one here is an accelerationist. Take that argument to the people making it - they are not here in this thread.
posted by latkes at 10:03 AM on September 12 [18 favorites]
posted by latkes at 10:03 AM on September 12 [18 favorites]
Accelerationism will get a lot more innocent people killed.
Accelerationism isn't what is going on here. Not even the made up version of accelerationism liberal internet spaces are afraid of.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:32 AM on September 12 [4 favorites]
Accelerationism isn't what is going on here. Not even the made up version of accelerationism liberal internet spaces are afraid of.
posted by pattern juggler at 10:32 AM on September 12 [4 favorites]
I'm not making the argument that critiques of Biden are support for Trump. I'm saying that basic arithmetic tells us that voting for "Dr" Stein makes it more likely Trump will win.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 10:57 AM on September 12 [1 favorite]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 10:57 AM on September 12 [1 favorite]
That's the choice Harris has made.
If she decides she'll lose more votes opposing genocide than she will otherwise, that is her call.
But it is asinine to make that call, or support it, and then be mad that the people whose votes were deemed not worth pursuing are lost.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:00 AM on September 12 [19 favorites]
If she decides she'll lose more votes opposing genocide than she will otherwise, that is her call.
But it is asinine to make that call, or support it, and then be mad that the people whose votes were deemed not worth pursuing are lost.
posted by pattern juggler at 11:00 AM on September 12 [19 favorites]
If you don't have suggestions for stopping the genocide that is happening right now, I encourage you to find something else to do with your time. Maybe go talk to the people you know who are supporting Israel and make them understand the blood on their hands?
posted by constraint at 11:02 AM on September 12 [6 favorites]
posted by constraint at 11:02 AM on September 12 [6 favorites]
The Washington Post challenges Biden's claim that Turkish-American activist Aysenur Eygi's death was due to an accidental ricochet with new video and eyewitnesses.
Hold on. Biden would be going on IDF intelligence here. Let’s pump the brakes on “Biden’s claim” no?
posted by teece303 at 12:28 PM on September 12
Hold on. Biden would be going on IDF intelligence here. Let’s pump the brakes on “Biden’s claim” no?
posted by teece303 at 12:28 PM on September 12
If you repeat someone else's claim as fact, that then becomes your claim; seems pretty straightforward to me.
posted by sagc at 12:37 PM on September 12 [12 favorites]
posted by sagc at 12:37 PM on September 12 [12 favorites]
If you repeat someone else's claim as fact, that then becomes your claim; seems pretty straightforward to me.
Seems like a deliberate misstatement to me, and I really don’t like it, yuck.
posted by teece303 at 12:38 PM on September 12
Seems like a deliberate misstatement to me, and I really don’t like it, yuck.
posted by teece303 at 12:38 PM on September 12
Did the IDF lie? Quite probably. Did Biden lie? Zero evidence of that.
posted by teece303 at 12:43 PM on September 12
posted by teece303 at 12:43 PM on September 12
The USA has always had a straightforward and simple double standard with regards to Americans being hurt, killed, held hostage, or imprisoned by foreign powers.
If it would advance US imperial interests then the lives of those US citizns are the most important thing ever and America will do anything at all to resscue and/or avenge them.
If it would not advance US imperial interests (or worse, impede them) then the US is shockiingly, callously, indifferent to the lives of its citizens abroad.
So of course it's no surprise that there's a shockingly large number of Americans killed by Israel that the US has never spoken of, talked about, or done anything for. Israel is critical to the American imperial project, therefore it can kill Amricans with impunity. Especially if they might be journalists or liberals.
posted by sotonohito at 12:47 PM on September 12 [13 favorites]
If it would advance US imperial interests then the lives of those US citizns are the most important thing ever and America will do anything at all to resscue and/or avenge them.
If it would not advance US imperial interests (or worse, impede them) then the US is shockiingly, callously, indifferent to the lives of its citizens abroad.
So of course it's no surprise that there's a shockingly large number of Americans killed by Israel that the US has never spoken of, talked about, or done anything for. Israel is critical to the American imperial project, therefore it can kill Amricans with impunity. Especially if they might be journalists or liberals.
posted by sotonohito at 12:47 PM on September 12 [13 favorites]
From the president who repeated the 40 beheaded babies lie after* it's debunked by Israeli journalists (and then finally, after slowwalking it, the govt)?
*months after
Speaking only for myself, and probably unrelated to everything else that he has acumen in and savvy for, Biden's brain is porridge when it comes to Palestine.
posted by cendawanita at 12:48 PM on September 12 [9 favorites]
*months after
Speaking only for myself, and probably unrelated to everything else that he has acumen in and savvy for, Biden's brain is porridge when it comes to Palestine.
posted by cendawanita at 12:48 PM on September 12 [9 favorites]
Biden would have to be actually senile to believe that IDF intelligence about its own wrongdoings is trustworthy. And I don't believe he is.
Whether you call it a "lie" or not, whether you call it Biden making a "claim" or not - these are arguments about the definition of "lie" and "claim." What actually matters is that Biden (and others in power) repeatedly accept the claims of an increasingly fascist, genocidal government as truth because it would be politically inconvenient to recognize their atrocities as anything other than tragic accidents or the inevitabilities of a justified war. I don't really care what word you call that, it sucks and is awful.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:51 PM on September 12 [8 favorites]
Whether you call it a "lie" or not, whether you call it Biden making a "claim" or not - these are arguments about the definition of "lie" and "claim." What actually matters is that Biden (and others in power) repeatedly accept the claims of an increasingly fascist, genocidal government as truth because it would be politically inconvenient to recognize their atrocities as anything other than tragic accidents or the inevitabilities of a justified war. I don't really care what word you call that, it sucks and is awful.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:51 PM on September 12 [8 favorites]
one of the most important trade routes in the world is now blocked by a rag-tag group of militants, and the US Navy has thrown its hands up in defeat and sailed away.
probs didn't want Houthis leeching their wifi
posted by flabdablet at 12:58 PM on September 12 [8 favorites]
probs didn't want Houthis leeching their wifi
posted by flabdablet at 12:58 PM on September 12 [8 favorites]
Stein is problematic in too many ways to list. The democrats have fewer flaws, which is not a ringing endorsement. Unfortunately for dem strategists, "Are you against genocide, Y/N?" is being answered with, "Well, uh, we understand that, uh, Israel has a right to defend itself, and uh, they're, you know, uh, a long-time ally and an important strategic partner".
As opposed to the answer literally fucking everyone who set foot in a public shool was raised to understand as correct which is "Yes, of course I oppose genocide." It's not like this is a moral dilemma introduced at the college level, I'm pretty sure they run middle (or even elementary) school kids through the blindingly obvious at the earliest possible age.
posted by Slackermagee at 1:04 PM on September 12 [9 favorites]
As opposed to the answer literally fucking everyone who set foot in a public shool was raised to understand as correct which is "Yes, of course I oppose genocide." It's not like this is a moral dilemma introduced at the college level, I'm pretty sure they run middle (or even elementary) school kids through the blindingly obvious at the earliest possible age.
posted by Slackermagee at 1:04 PM on September 12 [9 favorites]
Speaking of, "what other interesting bald-faced claims Biden and ilk will just take at face value," flagging for attention (just shared in the genocide thread):
This summary from Itay Epshtain (which you can cross-reference/validate with this Hebrew article):
BREAKING: The Government of #Israel submits to the High Court of Justice that after 11 months of - debilitating and atrocious war in #Gaza - it has not accomplished 'effective control' in any part of Gaza, has not displaced any of Hamas's governmental functions, and is therefore not the occupying power (with commensurate obligations under #IHL).
--
I have to admit, usually admitting rank incompetence to avoid (war) criminal charges is something mobsters do.
posted by cendawanita at 1:05 PM on September 12 [7 favorites]
This summary from Itay Epshtain (which you can cross-reference/validate with this Hebrew article):
BREAKING: The Government of #Israel submits to the High Court of Justice that after 11 months of - debilitating and atrocious war in #Gaza - it has not accomplished 'effective control' in any part of Gaza, has not displaced any of Hamas's governmental functions, and is therefore not the occupying power (with commensurate obligations under #IHL).
--
I have to admit, usually admitting rank incompetence to avoid (war) criminal charges is something mobsters do.
posted by cendawanita at 1:05 PM on September 12 [7 favorites]
Do you guys remember Daily Kos?
I left that site one day and never came back. Why? An attitude like this.
That lede is grossly unfair to Biden. It is factually incorrect.
Be careful you don’t become the disinformationist you hate.
I strongly disagree with Biden’s calls with Bibi and Israel and Palestine. It also seems the guy is trying to do what he thinks is right.
Opening this post that way… is beneath what Metafilter should be. Yuck.
posted by teece303 at 1:07 PM on September 12
I left that site one day and never came back. Why? An attitude like this.
That lede is grossly unfair to Biden. It is factually incorrect.
Be careful you don’t become the disinformationist you hate.
I strongly disagree with Biden’s calls with Bibi and Israel and Palestine. It also seems the guy is trying to do what he thinks is right.
Opening this post that way… is beneath what Metafilter should be. Yuck.
posted by teece303 at 1:07 PM on September 12
Here is the video of Biden describing what he thinks happened to Aysenur Eygi: 'apparently… an accident’, bullet ‘ricocheted off the ground’.
Anyway, today Biden is apparently outraged: “I am outraged and deeply saddened by the death of Aysenur Eygi,” Biden said in a statement, adding that the shooting “is totally unacceptable.”
Biden called for “full accountability” for her death after Israel “has acknowledged its responsibility.”
“A preliminary investigation has indicated that it was the result of a tragic error resulting from an unnecessary escalation,” Biden said. “The US government has had full access to Israel’s preliminary investigation, and expects continued access as the investigation continues, so that we can have confidence in the result. We will continue to stay in close contact with Israeli and Palestinian authorities regarding the circumstances that led to Aysenur’s death.”
The administration may also be responding to pressure from Sen. Patty Murray and Rep. Pramila Jayapal, and now Cantwell, to have “an immediate, transparent, credible, and thorough independent U.S. investigation” by the FBI into her death.
posted by toastyk at 1:36 PM on September 12 [7 favorites]
Anyway, today Biden is apparently outraged: “I am outraged and deeply saddened by the death of Aysenur Eygi,” Biden said in a statement, adding that the shooting “is totally unacceptable.”
Biden called for “full accountability” for her death after Israel “has acknowledged its responsibility.”
“A preliminary investigation has indicated that it was the result of a tragic error resulting from an unnecessary escalation,” Biden said. “The US government has had full access to Israel’s preliminary investigation, and expects continued access as the investigation continues, so that we can have confidence in the result. We will continue to stay in close contact with Israeli and Palestinian authorities regarding the circumstances that led to Aysenur’s death.”
The administration may also be responding to pressure from Sen. Patty Murray and Rep. Pramila Jayapal, and now Cantwell, to have “an immediate, transparent, credible, and thorough independent U.S. investigation” by the FBI into her death.
posted by toastyk at 1:36 PM on September 12 [7 favorites]
On the contrary, whining that it's not fair to say Biden "claimed" something because he was merely repeating what someone else told him - that's what's beneath what Metafilter should, because it's beneath all of us as human beings. Human beings who are witnessing daily fucking atrocities that are enabled by, encouraged by, supported by the person who is merely repeating the words of the criminals committing them.
It is so morally out of whack to pretend that you're standing up for truth against disinformation because it wasn't actually a "claim", because cendawanita shouldn't have used "claim," when daily, fucking daily, we are inundated with relentless disinformation whose sole purpose is to license further violence against palestinians. It barely merits a response, and this will be my last one to you.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 1:38 PM on September 12 [17 favorites]
It is so morally out of whack to pretend that you're standing up for truth against disinformation because it wasn't actually a "claim", because cendawanita shouldn't have used "claim," when daily, fucking daily, we are inundated with relentless disinformation whose sole purpose is to license further violence against palestinians. It barely merits a response, and this will be my last one to you.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 1:38 PM on September 12 [17 favorites]
Biden definitely passed along evidence-free IDF spin using one of the biggest bully pulpits on earth. The first few moments of narrative crafting are so important after events like this, and Biden - once again - gave the game away immediately to the farthest-right Netanyahuite story.
posted by mediareport at 1:47 PM on September 12 [8 favorites]
posted by mediareport at 1:47 PM on September 12 [8 favorites]
Sorry if this is repetitive, but as much as I think the Administration has done to improve the lives of its citizens, and helping Ukraine fight back (but not enough there) and to shore up relationships with allies, it has been beyond reprehensible on Gaza, the West Bank, and Palestinian lives.
I don't believe in Bronze Age tribal myths, but Biden does, so if he's right, he's going to hell over his role in killing 40,000 to 189,000 Gazans. And all for no apparent purpose (if the vile IDF has failed so badly as it claims). Well, I guess there is a purpose, propping up that Hitlerian monster Netanyahu and his cabinet of startlingly evil 'people'.
Oh, so sorry if that's mean to Joe.
posted by WatTylerJr at 3:56 PM on September 12 [3 favorites]
I don't believe in Bronze Age tribal myths, but Biden does, so if he's right, he's going to hell over his role in killing 40,000 to 189,000 Gazans. And all for no apparent purpose (if the vile IDF has failed so badly as it claims). Well, I guess there is a purpose, propping up that Hitlerian monster Netanyahu and his cabinet of startlingly evil 'people'.
Oh, so sorry if that's mean to Joe.
posted by WatTylerJr at 3:56 PM on September 12 [3 favorites]
Biden is aiding and abetting genocide. Talking about whether his statements in excusing the Israeli killing of an American citizen during that genocide were conscious lies or just him mindlessly repeating the génocidaires' own assurances that they've of course done nothing wrong, is absurd.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 4:01 PM on September 12 [6 favorites]
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 4:01 PM on September 12 [6 favorites]
Oh, so sorry if that's mean to Joe.
Joe is never going to see it. It is sort of disrespectful to other religious people who aren't engaged in genocide, though. (Including many of those close to the victims.)
posted by pattern juggler at 4:04 PM on September 12
Joe is never going to see it. It is sort of disrespectful to other religious people who aren't engaged in genocide, though. (Including many of those close to the victims.)
posted by pattern juggler at 4:04 PM on September 12
Also, to suggest that the president of the world's only superpower and ostensibly the world's most powerful man just has no way of knowing whether the things the Israeli regime is telling him are true or not, because it's not like the nice old man has any intelligence agencies at his disposal, or, most likely, intelligence assets embedded in the actual IDF and Israeli government, so he just aw-shucks has to believe what Netanyahu says, no malarkey, is laughable.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 4:05 PM on September 12 [6 favorites]
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 4:05 PM on September 12 [6 favorites]
literally fucking everyone who set foot in a public shool was raised to understand as correct
a bit of a complication: i went to a US public school and our junior high history class had, in among all the repetitions of the same few bits of US-centric stuff you'd expect, a little multi-day potted history of the founding of exactly one (1) seemingly arbitrarily chosen tiny distant country, to the exclusion of all of the other possible tiny distant countries; you can guess which one and whether that history of the founding of that country used words like "ethnic cleansing".
not that that state of affairs (which i imagine is typical for people who went to US public schools) really affects your larger point, of course.
posted by busted_crayons at 4:41 PM on September 12 [1 favorite]
a bit of a complication: i went to a US public school and our junior high history class had, in among all the repetitions of the same few bits of US-centric stuff you'd expect, a little multi-day potted history of the founding of exactly one (1) seemingly arbitrarily chosen tiny distant country, to the exclusion of all of the other possible tiny distant countries; you can guess which one and whether that history of the founding of that country used words like "ethnic cleansing".
not that that state of affairs (which i imagine is typical for people who went to US public schools) really affects your larger point, of course.
posted by busted_crayons at 4:41 PM on September 12 [1 favorite]
It also seems the guy is trying to do what he thinks is right.
Can you walk us through how one arms and funds a genocide while also "doing what he thinks is right"? I am genuinely curious about this mindset and what drives it. Do you mean that it seems that Biden thinks that arming and funding a genocide is "right"? Or do you mean that Biden would probably deny that a genocide is occurring to begin with, so it's removed from any of his equations when arming and funding the genocidal entity?
Given that both cases would be completely morally abhorrent - assuming we agree a genocide is taking place, and that Biden is assisting in it - why must one be "fair" to literally anything Biden does here?
posted by windbox at 4:53 PM on September 12 [6 favorites]
Can you walk us through how one arms and funds a genocide while also "doing what he thinks is right"? I am genuinely curious about this mindset and what drives it. Do you mean that it seems that Biden thinks that arming and funding a genocide is "right"? Or do you mean that Biden would probably deny that a genocide is occurring to begin with, so it's removed from any of his equations when arming and funding the genocidal entity?
Given that both cases would be completely morally abhorrent - assuming we agree a genocide is taking place, and that Biden is assisting in it - why must one be "fair" to literally anything Biden does here?
posted by windbox at 4:53 PM on September 12 [6 favorites]
Can we have a moratorium on the straw man that critiques of Biden = support of Trump?
We can't even begin to help Palestinians if our government is compromised by Russian agents. So, no, not really, we can't have your moratorium. It has become complicated by the fact that we have Russians and Russian-aligned Israelis trying to destabilize our democracy. Sorry, I wish we lived in a better world.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:35 PM on September 12
We can't even begin to help Palestinians if our government is compromised by Russian agents. So, no, not really, we can't have your moratorium. It has become complicated by the fact that we have Russians and Russian-aligned Israelis trying to destabilize our democracy. Sorry, I wish we lived in a better world.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:35 PM on September 12
You're being manipulated by Republicans, and, by proxy, Russians.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:37 PM on September 12
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:37 PM on September 12
« Older *squeeks* And One More Thing | The World We're Designing Newer »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Aysenur_Eygi
posted by constraint at 7:31 AM on September 12 [1 favorite]