I also heard something about a couch
September 17, 2024 10:36 PM Subscribe
Every time JD Vance tells a story, a sinkhole swallows 30 people (WashPo op ed, archive), a lesson on the reasons it's not good to tell false stories to rile people up.
I need to discuss this: JD Vance was at some point a serious person. A Republican, sure. But he was academically high achieving, he wrote a well-received memoir, he was competent enough to be in the VC/finance world, etc. He looked like a generic wealthy person who had made connections and become successful through the right Ivy League networks. He’s married to someone with a similar background, who he met through the same networks.
This is all very staid and dull Republicanism: old school influence and wealth. Real wealth, not like Trump. And he even repudiated Trump back when he was obviously old school.
Why did he go Trumpist? Did he want to be a senator that much and saw an easy route? I guess it would be cool to be a senator. Does he legit have no principles and prestige is everything? What does his wife, who is the daughter of immigrants and by all accounts a staid traditional liberal think of this?
I just can’t sympathize. I guess I would rather be really wealthy than be Vice President, but JD thinks otherwise. And maybe he thinks his principles can be rescued once he’s president (like really?). Or was he really radicalized? But his wife must be uncomfortable I think?
Also, I have deep conspiracy thoughts about Yale Law School and Amy Chua and the damage these people have done to American society.
posted by mr_roboto at 11:00 PM on September 17 [33 favorites]
This is all very staid and dull Republicanism: old school influence and wealth. Real wealth, not like Trump. And he even repudiated Trump back when he was obviously old school.
Why did he go Trumpist? Did he want to be a senator that much and saw an easy route? I guess it would be cool to be a senator. Does he legit have no principles and prestige is everything? What does his wife, who is the daughter of immigrants and by all accounts a staid traditional liberal think of this?
I just can’t sympathize. I guess I would rather be really wealthy than be Vice President, but JD thinks otherwise. And maybe he thinks his principles can be rescued once he’s president (like really?). Or was he really radicalized? But his wife must be uncomfortable I think?
Also, I have deep conspiracy thoughts about Yale Law School and Amy Chua and the damage these people have done to American society.
posted by mr_roboto at 11:00 PM on September 17 [33 favorites]
Why did he go Trumpist? Did he want to be a senator that much and saw an easy route? I guess it would be cool to be a senator. Does he legit have no principles and prestige is everything? What does his wife, who is the daughter of immigrants and by all accounts a staid traditional liberal think of this?
Will those questions be answered by another book by him? I will pass on reading it
posted by robbyrobs at 11:14 PM on September 17 [4 favorites]
Will those questions be answered by another book by him? I will pass on reading it
posted by robbyrobs at 11:14 PM on September 17 [4 favorites]
I guessed from the headline this was written by Alexandra Petri. I was not disappointed. Alexandra Petri is a national treasure.
posted by Avelwood at 11:40 PM on September 17 [21 favorites]
posted by Avelwood at 11:40 PM on September 17 [21 favorites]
It amazes me that nothingburgers about Florida psychos-of-the-day get three days of non-stop coverage from the right-wing media, while JD Vance and his boss make up complete bullshit stories that get real people hurt and put them at risk of being murdered, while the right-wing media looks away.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:41 PM on September 17 [16 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:41 PM on September 17 [16 favorites]
I think this piece, from David Roth on blistering form at Defector, is simply the most cuttingly accurate description of the process and ourpose that the Springfield Lie is simply the most recent and egregious example of:
What a Lie is For
>At the most basic level, there is just no percentage in trying to parse a political campaign's decision to try to incite a pogrom. It does a favor to the people doing it, for one thing, because even assessing it along the lines of any other campaign decision provides a cosmetic coat of reason to something that hasn't earned it. More than that, there's no sense in searching for a justification when the people involved know that they are doing something that can't be justified. That is more or less why they're doing it, and any supposed tactical advantage should be understood as secondary to the primary purpose, which is to see what they can get away with, and to begin seeking permission in earnest for something that is (probably) still impermissible.
I won't clip the ending, which is as true as it's depressing. We know what they're doing, how and why. And yet the election still hangs in the balance. It's incomprehensibly damning.
posted by onebuttonmonkey at 1:26 AM on September 18 [37 favorites]
What a Lie is For
>At the most basic level, there is just no percentage in trying to parse a political campaign's decision to try to incite a pogrom. It does a favor to the people doing it, for one thing, because even assessing it along the lines of any other campaign decision provides a cosmetic coat of reason to something that hasn't earned it. More than that, there's no sense in searching for a justification when the people involved know that they are doing something that can't be justified. That is more or less why they're doing it, and any supposed tactical advantage should be understood as secondary to the primary purpose, which is to see what they can get away with, and to begin seeking permission in earnest for something that is (probably) still impermissible.
I won't clip the ending, which is as true as it's depressing. We know what they're doing, how and why. And yet the election still hangs in the balance. It's incomprehensibly damning.
posted by onebuttonmonkey at 1:26 AM on September 18 [37 favorites]
I need to discuss this: JD Vance was at some point a serious person. A Republican, sure. But he was academically high achieving, he wrote a well-received memoir, he was competent enough to be in the VC/finance world, etc.
I've heard other people paraphrase Vance in similar terms. There is a bit of cognitive dissonance there.
But I wonder how much of the worldview of Vance and his fellow VC travelers were informed by extremist alt-right guru Curtis Yarvin and his ilk?
posted by ishmael at 1:30 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]
I've heard other people paraphrase Vance in similar terms. There is a bit of cognitive dissonance there.
But I wonder how much of the worldview of Vance and his fellow VC travelers were informed by extremist alt-right guru Curtis Yarvin and his ilk?
posted by ishmael at 1:30 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]
Curtis Yarvin is apparently a big inspiration for Peter Thiel, Elon Musk and the Proud Boys. Here's an excellent rundown of him by the Behind the Bastards podcast. (with special guest Ed Helms!)
posted by ishmael at 1:32 AM on September 18 [10 favorites]
posted by ishmael at 1:32 AM on September 18 [10 favorites]
...Vance, do I need to post the Göring quote? Because I think I need to post the fucking Göring quote.
"[...]the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
-- Hermann Göring, 1946
posted by BiggerJ at 1:59 AM on September 18 [25 favorites]
"[...]the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
-- Hermann Göring, 1946
posted by BiggerJ at 1:59 AM on September 18 [25 favorites]
Elise Stefanik Rep from Upstate NY had a similar... flipout, was/is also a real smarty-pants: then again so is/are/was Ted Cruz and Lindsey Graham... there is a connection here. Someone promises something, or hints at the promise of something and then all best are off and everyone goes crazy. It's like a dark-magic spell.
That said, this is an absolutely 100% dead-on parsing of why every time JD Vance speaks 30 people get swallowed up in a sinkhole. I didn't know about this until now, but it seems pretty irrefutable.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:25 AM on September 18 [7 favorites]
That said, this is an absolutely 100% dead-on parsing of why every time JD Vance speaks 30 people get swallowed up in a sinkhole. I didn't know about this until now, but it seems pretty irrefutable.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:25 AM on September 18 [7 favorites]
I know this thread is mostly going to be about Vance's perfidy and US politics in general rather than the Petri piece specifically. But: Petri is SO GOOD at reusing and playing with fairy tales to make her point. Here, the ancient story of being cursed to emit toads every time one speaks comes to mind. I wish I could have a dinner with her and Alexandra Erin so I could hear them chat about the nuts and bolts of commenting on national political events using horror and fantasy stories.
posted by brainwane at 3:31 AM on September 18 [15 favorites]
posted by brainwane at 3:31 AM on September 18 [15 favorites]
I just read an interesting article on ArsTechnica about 'deep doubts' and 'the liar's dividend' that's somewhat related.
It's basically about how the rise of AI deepfakes has proven, as predicted, a boon to liars to cast doubt on legitimate evidence. Obviously casting doubt on sourcing and evidence to counter stories people don't like, or outright faking it (Stalin's photo editing long before photoshop springs to mind, or Nazi control of the media) has always been a thing, but now people are becoming increasingly aware that easily created deepfakes exist, it means that dismissing proof about your lies as AI creations has only gotten easier - e.g. Trump's assertion over Harris' crowd size photo at the Detroit airport as an AI fake and how the Trumpista's ran with it, or how it doesn't matter what Springfield officials say, it's now a 'truth' that Haitian immigrants are eating pets.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 3:34 AM on September 18 [10 favorites]
It's basically about how the rise of AI deepfakes has proven, as predicted, a boon to liars to cast doubt on legitimate evidence. Obviously casting doubt on sourcing and evidence to counter stories people don't like, or outright faking it (Stalin's photo editing long before photoshop springs to mind, or Nazi control of the media) has always been a thing, but now people are becoming increasingly aware that easily created deepfakes exist, it means that dismissing proof about your lies as AI creations has only gotten easier - e.g. Trump's assertion over Harris' crowd size photo at the Detroit airport as an AI fake and how the Trumpista's ran with it, or how it doesn't matter what Springfield officials say, it's now a 'truth' that Haitian immigrants are eating pets.
The concept of deep doubt also intersects with existing issues of misinformation and disinformation. It provides a new tool for those seeking to spread false narratives or attempting to discredit factual reporting. This could lead to the acceleration of the already present scenario, driven by cable news media and social media in particular, in which our shared cultural perception of "truth" becomes even more subjective, with more individuals choosing to believe what aligns with their preexisting views rather than considering the evidence from a different cultural perspective.The biggest concern for me is that reality become ever more subjective, and ever more people revert to only trusting sources they already trust - when e.g. Fox News regurgitates Vance and Trump's lies and supports it, any evidence to try and disprove their claims is dismissed by the same source as 'fake news' - and given they trust e.g. Fox News or Facebook friends as their source of 'truth', all other evidence is dismissible to an increasingly large number - they literally inhabit an entirely different reality, where what they want to believe is true, and what they don't, isn't, and it's not just the core MAGA incels/racists/misogynists looking for any excuse to hurt those they don't like, but entirely mainstream to an unprecedented degree. I just don't know how you come back from that as a society.
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 3:34 AM on September 18 [10 favorites]
"Flood the zone with bullshit" - some oleaginous human shit stain.
posted by lalochezia at 3:50 AM on September 18 [7 favorites]
posted by lalochezia at 3:50 AM on September 18 [7 favorites]
I think we’re in a time where politicians, business leaders (especially in VC and Tech), and other elites feel emboldened to say whatever they like and have it be accepted as true. It’s not quite lying, since they don’t care if it is true or not or if it is believed or not as long as a subset of people treat it as real for at least a moment. It’s not necessarily delusion, although it can be; the speaker is required to neither believe or not believe.
I think this is always present in the human makeup (my eldest brother did this a lot), that people assume that they can say anything and have it taken seriously. Cult leaders spiraling the drain do this, spinning more grandiose plans maybe just to talk.
I think this has been called bullshitting as opposed to lying, and, maybe because we have a captive media that no longer cares much about truth and a deeply distracted population, we are living in the Age of BS.
Vance fits the bill; he’s been infected by it from any number of sources, and I doubt if he’ll recover. I can’t think of anyone who has, outside of children.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:15 AM on September 18 [10 favorites]
I think this is always present in the human makeup (my eldest brother did this a lot), that people assume that they can say anything and have it taken seriously. Cult leaders spiraling the drain do this, spinning more grandiose plans maybe just to talk.
I think this has been called bullshitting as opposed to lying, and, maybe because we have a captive media that no longer cares much about truth and a deeply distracted population, we are living in the Age of BS.
Vance fits the bill; he’s been infected by it from any number of sources, and I doubt if he’ll recover. I can’t think of anyone who has, outside of children.
posted by GenjiandProust at 4:15 AM on September 18 [10 favorites]
"sinkhole" is good, but when thinking of JD Vance, other words with rather similar spellings maybe take precedence.
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 4:22 AM on September 18 [3 favorites]
posted by Calvin and the Duplicators at 4:22 AM on September 18 [3 favorites]
Here, the ancient story of being cursed to emit toads every time one speaks comes to mind.
"🐸"
That said, this is an absolutely 100% dead-on parsing of why every time JD Vance speaks 30 people get swallowed up in a sinkhole.
"🐸"
posted by JHarris at 4:29 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]
"🐸"
That said, this is an absolutely 100% dead-on parsing of why every time JD Vance speaks 30 people get swallowed up in a sinkhole.
"🐸"
posted by JHarris at 4:29 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]
What does his wife, who is the daughter of immigrants and by all accounts a staid traditional liberal
She clerked for Roberts and Kavanaugh. You don't do that unless you're (a) not a liberal and (b) a shitbag.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:38 AM on September 18 [34 favorites]
She clerked for Roberts and Kavanaugh. You don't do that unless you're (a) not a liberal and (b) a shitbag.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:38 AM on September 18 [34 favorites]
Vance's "It might be a lie, but it gets at an essential truth we want to share and gets people talking." is sort of the conservative version of the left's "This slogan pisses everyone off but it gets everyone talking about the subject." Only with that special less-ethical conservative twist.
posted by charred husk at 5:14 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]
posted by charred husk at 5:14 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]
What happened to Vance? Trump demonstrated that being a con man and a liar can take you to the very top, and you don’t even have to pretend to be good or truthful.
posted by jabah at 5:28 AM on September 18 [5 favorites]
posted by jabah at 5:28 AM on September 18 [5 favorites]
I need to discuss this: JD Vance was at some point a serious person.
No. We do this every time: Goldwater was a serious person. George W. was an articulate statesman. McCain was honorable and Kissinger was erudite and Nixon wasn't that bad and Elon Musk was Tony Stark and Romney was Santa Claus AND HAVE WE SQUISHED OUR BRAINS INTO LITTLE BREAD BALLS TO LET THEM ROLL OUT OF OUR HEADS?! Do we realize that one day we'll be singing the praises of Trump himself when the Republicans are running S'noggath the People Eater/Palin?
A guy gets into Yale and suddenly he's smart and has sharp insights? OR MAYBE the guy making frat house jokes about childless cat ladies wrote a book that the both-sides press ate up to paint him as a rural conservative whisperer. You wanna know why the "he fucks a couch on pages 179 to 181" joke went so far? One: because it's funny. Two: BECAUSE NOBODY ACTUALLY READ THAT DUMB BOOK.
Listen to the If Books Could Kill episode on him. And understand that power is mostly projection and public image. You don't have to do their work for them.
posted by AlSweigart at 5:37 AM on September 18 [53 favorites]
No. We do this every time: Goldwater was a serious person. George W. was an articulate statesman. McCain was honorable and Kissinger was erudite and Nixon wasn't that bad and Elon Musk was Tony Stark and Romney was Santa Claus AND HAVE WE SQUISHED OUR BRAINS INTO LITTLE BREAD BALLS TO LET THEM ROLL OUT OF OUR HEADS?! Do we realize that one day we'll be singing the praises of Trump himself when the Republicans are running S'noggath the People Eater/Palin?
A guy gets into Yale and suddenly he's smart and has sharp insights? OR MAYBE the guy making frat house jokes about childless cat ladies wrote a book that the both-sides press ate up to paint him as a rural conservative whisperer. You wanna know why the "he fucks a couch on pages 179 to 181" joke went so far? One: because it's funny. Two: BECAUSE NOBODY ACTUALLY READ THAT DUMB BOOK.
Listen to the If Books Could Kill episode on him. And understand that power is mostly projection and public image. You don't have to do their work for them.
posted by AlSweigart at 5:37 AM on September 18 [53 favorites]
JD Vance publicly admitted that he LIED about the Haitians/pets story.
He claims that it's OK to make up a lie in service of whatever lie he thinks is a larger truth.
SO:
First off - he has now admitted to being a man without honor. Morally-bankrupt liars shouldn't be rewarded for lying to us.
But second: He has now forever forfeited any right to complain about the Vance/couch story.
(OR about the Vance/sinkhole story.)
posted by AsYouKnow Bob at 5:57 AM on September 18 [14 favorites]
He claims that it's OK to make up a lie in service of whatever lie he thinks is a larger truth.
SO:
First off - he has now admitted to being a man without honor. Morally-bankrupt liars shouldn't be rewarded for lying to us.
But second: He has now forever forfeited any right to complain about the Vance/couch story.
(OR about the Vance/sinkhole story.)
posted by AsYouKnow Bob at 5:57 AM on September 18 [14 favorites]
Don't take the bait. "Every time they bring up the 'story,' mention something real that is harming Americans."
posted by PlusDistance at 6:25 AM on September 18 [3 favorites]
posted by PlusDistance at 6:25 AM on September 18 [3 favorites]
Elise Stefanik Rep from Upstate NY had a similar... flipout, was/is also a real smarty-pants: then again so is/are/was Ted Cruz and Lindsey Graham... there is a connection here. Someone promises something, or hints at the promise of something and then all best are off and everyone goes crazy. It's like a dark-magic spell.
They’re basically Nazgûl; everything they were before gets consumed and swallowed by hateful bullshit. In fact, they’re worse, because the Kings Of Men didn’t know the rings were bad.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:53 AM on September 18 [8 favorites]
They’re basically Nazgûl; everything they were before gets consumed and swallowed by hateful bullshit. In fact, they’re worse, because the Kings Of Men didn’t know the rings were bad.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:53 AM on September 18 [8 favorites]
Re: Nazgûl: See: dignity wraiths.
posted by Pendragon at 7:13 AM on September 18 [5 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 7:13 AM on September 18 [5 favorites]
> I need to discuss this: JD Vance was at some point a serious person.
Stop giving Vance the benefit of the doubt, or rather stop giving Republican politicians the benefit of the doubt. They're all just yet another party of racist fascists who don't care if thousands of people in America are butchered by their stochastic hate mobs.
You're likely looking at the next President. Conservatives have no ideas or plans or concepts of plans; they just want power. Vance is being more public about it because if the polls keeping falling they'll copy the Democrat playbook: push Trump out and run the less-baggage Vance in an October surprise. It all depends on if the deep pocket backers can pay off Trump and if Vance can get his name in the lights enough (remember, for the mainstream American media, being a genocidal racist doesn't count against conservatives.)
And the media will fall for it and write front pages of excuses and rationalizations about this fresh-faced, controversial, oh-so-presidential individual, just like they fell for the Hillbilly Elegy bullshit. And American voters will see a young white man shrieking racist lies and misogynist jokes and think, "Yeah, I'd rather have a beer with this guy than see a brown woman in the Oval Office."
posted by AlSweigart at 7:18 AM on September 18 [9 favorites]
Stop giving Vance the benefit of the doubt, or rather stop giving Republican politicians the benefit of the doubt. They're all just yet another party of racist fascists who don't care if thousands of people in America are butchered by their stochastic hate mobs.
You're likely looking at the next President. Conservatives have no ideas or plans or concepts of plans; they just want power. Vance is being more public about it because if the polls keeping falling they'll copy the Democrat playbook: push Trump out and run the less-baggage Vance in an October surprise. It all depends on if the deep pocket backers can pay off Trump and if Vance can get his name in the lights enough (remember, for the mainstream American media, being a genocidal racist doesn't count against conservatives.)
And the media will fall for it and write front pages of excuses and rationalizations about this fresh-faced, controversial, oh-so-presidential individual, just like they fell for the Hillbilly Elegy bullshit. And American voters will see a young white man shrieking racist lies and misogynist jokes and think, "Yeah, I'd rather have a beer with this guy than see a brown woman in the Oval Office."
posted by AlSweigart at 7:18 AM on September 18 [9 favorites]
Why did he go Trumpist?
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I’ll remind everyone that both DNC and RNC email servers were hacked by the Russians.
Only the DNC emails were released, and they were so godawfully boring that the best that could be done was a bananas conspiracy theory about buying pizza.
The RNC? Well… somethings are more powerful when held close to the vest.
posted by Freen at 7:26 AM on September 18 [6 favorites]
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I’ll remind everyone that both DNC and RNC email servers were hacked by the Russians.
Only the DNC emails were released, and they were so godawfully boring that the best that could be done was a bananas conspiracy theory about buying pizza.
The RNC? Well… somethings are more powerful when held close to the vest.
posted by Freen at 7:26 AM on September 18 [6 favorites]
> JD Vance publicly admitted that he LIED about the Haitians/pets story.
> He claims that it's OK to make up a lie in service of whatever lie he thinks is a larger truth.
It doesn't matter that he lied if the press refuses to call him a liar: What Happens in Springfield Won't Stay in Springfield [NYT gift link]
“If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people,” Vance said on Sunday, “then that’s what I’m going to do.”
Vance [...] has been even more vicious than his boss, spreading the additional lie that Haitians have carried disease and disorder to Ohio.
Senator JD Vance of Ohio — smear the Haitians of Springfield with the lie that
...he confessed to elevating rumors and lies to prove a political point.
"But Al, they did say he was lying." No. They said he was spreading the lie or smearing with the lie or confessed to elevating rumors and lies.
The media won't say, "JD Vance is a liar" because that's when he'll say, "I said 'create stories' and you can't prove I meant 'made up' because maybe a Haitian somewhere at some time ate something like a dog so you'll still give me the benefit of the doubt as if that'll keep conservatives from accusing you of biased reporting."
posted by AlSweigart at 7:50 AM on September 18 [7 favorites]
> He claims that it's OK to make up a lie in service of whatever lie he thinks is a larger truth.
It doesn't matter that he lied if the press refuses to call him a liar: What Happens in Springfield Won't Stay in Springfield [NYT gift link]
“If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people,” Vance said on Sunday, “then that’s what I’m going to do.”
Vance [...] has been even more vicious than his boss, spreading the additional lie that Haitians have carried disease and disorder to Ohio.
Senator JD Vance of Ohio — smear the Haitians of Springfield with the lie that
...he confessed to elevating rumors and lies to prove a political point.
"But Al, they did say he was lying." No. They said he was spreading the lie or smearing with the lie or confessed to elevating rumors and lies.
The media won't say, "JD Vance is a liar" because that's when he'll say, "I said 'create stories' and you can't prove I meant 'made up' because maybe a Haitian somewhere at some time ate something like a dog so you'll still give me the benefit of the doubt as if that'll keep conservatives from accusing you of biased reporting."
posted by AlSweigart at 7:50 AM on September 18 [7 favorites]
> And yet the election still hangs in the balance. It's incomprehensibly damning.
I was feeling this way in the summer of 2016. How the hell was it even a contest?
I have since resolved the cognitive dissonance by realizing what kind of country the United States is. It is not the kind of country where free and fair elections have traditionally elevated statesmanlike figures to positions of power. For one thing, the "free and fair" part was tried very briefly, from around 1970 to the mid 1980s sometime before the backlash started. And people with values not far from Trump's have always been an important part of the scene.
There have been times when Americans fought gunfights over the custody of ballot boxes, and it turns out that this part of the past is not even the past. Because there have always been a significant fraction of Americans who did not want free and fair elections, and those people have never admitted defeat. They're still fighting their idea of the good fight.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 7:52 AM on September 18 [14 favorites]
I was feeling this way in the summer of 2016. How the hell was it even a contest?
I have since resolved the cognitive dissonance by realizing what kind of country the United States is. It is not the kind of country where free and fair elections have traditionally elevated statesmanlike figures to positions of power. For one thing, the "free and fair" part was tried very briefly, from around 1970 to the mid 1980s sometime before the backlash started. And people with values not far from Trump's have always been an important part of the scene.
There have been times when Americans fought gunfights over the custody of ballot boxes, and it turns out that this part of the past is not even the past. Because there have always been a significant fraction of Americans who did not want free and fair elections, and those people have never admitted defeat. They're still fighting their idea of the good fight.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 7:52 AM on September 18 [14 favorites]
"What happened to Vance?"
Somebody who went to college with him said that at the time he came off as the sort of person who would say literally anything if he thought it would help him get ahead.
So, based on that, nothing in particular "happened" to him. He's just continuing to be what he's always been. Which is the kind of person that Peter Thiel would plausibly find useful.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 7:55 AM on September 18 [27 favorites]
Somebody who went to college with him said that at the time he came off as the sort of person who would say literally anything if he thought it would help him get ahead.
So, based on that, nothing in particular "happened" to him. He's just continuing to be what he's always been. Which is the kind of person that Peter Thiel would plausibly find useful.
posted by Aardvark Cheeselog at 7:55 AM on September 18 [27 favorites]
So, based on that, nothing in particular "happened" to him. He's just continuing to be what he's always been. Which is the kind of person that Peter Thiel would plausibly find useful.
Exactly. Having "libertarian tech-bro" as the culture you identify with actually opens you up to notions of social darwinism and corporate monarchism.
You start talking in a weirdo, culty argot that only your fellow travelers would understand. For example "parents of children should have their votes count more than the childless".
posted by ishmael at 8:15 AM on September 18 [5 favorites]
Exactly. Having "libertarian tech-bro" as the culture you identify with actually opens you up to notions of social darwinism and corporate monarchism.
You start talking in a weirdo, culty argot that only your fellow travelers would understand. For example "parents of children should have their votes count more than the childless".
posted by ishmael at 8:15 AM on September 18 [5 favorites]
She clerked for Roberts and Kavanaugh. You don't do that unless you're (a) not a liberal and (b) a shitbag.
Having been to law school, I cannot begin to describe the naked stabbing over a pile of corpses it takes to clerk for a Supreme Court justice.
Having to go from that to quitting your job because your shitbag husband thinks that it doesn’t look good for women to work outside the home must be a special kind of hell. One she clearly signed on for, but I don’t think she realized how much it would fuck her when she did.
posted by corb at 8:44 AM on September 18 [17 favorites]
Having been to law school, I cannot begin to describe the naked stabbing over a pile of corpses it takes to clerk for a Supreme Court justice.
Having to go from that to quitting your job because your shitbag husband thinks that it doesn’t look good for women to work outside the home must be a special kind of hell. One she clearly signed on for, but I don’t think she realized how much it would fuck her when she did.
posted by corb at 8:44 AM on September 18 [17 favorites]
For example "parents of children should have their votes count more than the childless".
JD Vance: When the three-fifths compromise isn't enough.
posted by AlSweigart at 9:00 AM on September 18 [8 favorites]
JD Vance: When the three-fifths compromise isn't enough.
posted by AlSweigart at 9:00 AM on September 18 [8 favorites]
I need to discuss this: JD Vance was at some point a serious person.
But was he really? I was listening to a recent episode of the Dollop about Vance. According to his book, him mother got fired from her nursing job for rollerblading in the ER. For some reasons, one of the clearest memories I have of the NBC show ER is a nurse rollerblading in the ER. Given Vance's known lack of integrity, I'm inclined to think that he stole that bit.
posted by LindsayIrene at 9:10 AM on September 18 [11 favorites]
But was he really? I was listening to a recent episode of the Dollop about Vance. According to his book, him mother got fired from her nursing job for rollerblading in the ER. For some reasons, one of the clearest memories I have of the NBC show ER is a nurse rollerblading in the ER. Given Vance's known lack of integrity, I'm inclined to think that he stole that bit.
posted by LindsayIrene at 9:10 AM on September 18 [11 favorites]
компромат
Okay but like... why would that be necessary? In the modern GOP, the way you get ahead is by being as publicly, performatively monstrous as possible. The moderates are mostly sidelined and/or retired and Hell is pretty much openly running the party. The base wants the blood of the innocent and if you don't give it to them, you're not winning any primaries. There's plenty of overt incentives to be maximally Satanic without involving spooks and extortion and blackmail.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:25 AM on September 18 [5 favorites]
Okay but like... why would that be necessary? In the modern GOP, the way you get ahead is by being as publicly, performatively monstrous as possible. The moderates are mostly sidelined and/or retired and Hell is pretty much openly running the party. The base wants the blood of the innocent and if you don't give it to them, you're not winning any primaries. There's plenty of overt incentives to be maximally Satanic without involving spooks and extortion and blackmail.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:25 AM on September 18 [5 favorites]
to paint him as a rural conservative whisperer.
couchfucker doesn't even pronounce appalachia right
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:27 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]
couchfucker doesn't even pronounce appalachia right
posted by i used to be someone else at 9:27 AM on September 18 [4 favorites]
why would that be necessary?
“A dead girl or a live boy. Or an oily couch.”
posted by From Bklyn at 9:39 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]
“A dead girl or a live boy. Or an oily couch.”
posted by From Bklyn at 9:39 AM on September 18 [1 favorite]
компромат
Okay but like... why would that be necessary? In the modern GOP, the way you get ahead is by being as publicly, performatively monstrous as possible.
Agreed. Compromat is how they got existing establishment Republicans like Lindsey Graham to bend the knee. Not necessary with the true believers. What could possibly embarrass Laura Loomer?
posted by Naberius at 9:43 AM on September 18 [8 favorites]
Okay but like... why would that be necessary? In the modern GOP, the way you get ahead is by being as publicly, performatively monstrous as possible.
Agreed. Compromat is how they got existing establishment Republicans like Lindsey Graham to bend the knee. Not necessary with the true believers. What could possibly embarrass Laura Loomer?
posted by Naberius at 9:43 AM on September 18 [8 favorites]
mother got fired from her nursing job
hubba hubba hubba hubba hubba
posted by flabdablet at 10:00 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]
hubba hubba hubba hubba hubba
posted by flabdablet at 10:00 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]
Watch out -- there's a sinkhole in that couch!
posted by y2karl at 11:06 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 11:06 AM on September 18 [2 favorites]
There should be a modern-day remake of Smokey and the Bandit. Call it Couchfucker and the Felon. The script will write itself, or we can get an AI to do it.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:30 AM on September 18 [3 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:30 AM on September 18 [3 favorites]
People are way too reverent about “top schools” being an indicator of anything approaching character or wisdom, or frankly even intelligence. To humblebrag a bit, I came from a science background and got in the 99.8% percentile on the LSAT without really studying and went to a top law school. I was on the Dean’s List and around a lot of people planning to go into politics and such. They were an interesting bunch, but I wouldn’t say the high achievers were all that smart. They were *pretty* smart but a lot of them seemed amazed that I was also good at math. There’s a certain type that makes it through and also gets the fancy summer jobs and clerkships through connections and they aren’t always the smartest of their classmates.
Regarding the Haitian pet eating nonsense, the town of Springfield should absolutely throw 1 solid lawyer and a paralegal at suing Trump and the campaign civilly over this. It feels like pretty classic “fire in a crowded theater” fare and you shouldn’t need a huge passel of lawyers to give it a shot. I’ve long been of the opinion that we should be much more aggressive suing politicians for libel, slander, or whatever else. There’s no value to that sort of free speech, and there’s a lot of harm.
posted by caviar2d2 at 3:47 PM on September 18 [11 favorites]
Regarding the Haitian pet eating nonsense, the town of Springfield should absolutely throw 1 solid lawyer and a paralegal at suing Trump and the campaign civilly over this. It feels like pretty classic “fire in a crowded theater” fare and you shouldn’t need a huge passel of lawyers to give it a shot. I’ve long been of the opinion that we should be much more aggressive suing politicians for libel, slander, or whatever else. There’s no value to that sort of free speech, and there’s a lot of harm.
posted by caviar2d2 at 3:47 PM on September 18 [11 favorites]
Vance is being more public about it because if the polls keeping falling they'll copy the Democrat playbook: push Trump out and run the less-baggage Vance in an October surprise.
The gop is basically stuck with Trump at this point. We’re already past the ballot finalization dates as ballots for overseas voters need to be sent to the voter no later than 45 days before a general election — which is Saturday. Some states have provisions to replace a dead or incapacitated candidate but even playing republican calvinball, “we think our guy will lose” isn’t going to have much luck in the courts.
Plus the MAGA right fucking worship Trump and are unlikely to support another candidate. Even if you could get Orange Daddy onboard until the election that is a massive ship of crazy that’s slow to turn.
posted by nathan_teske at 4:36 PM on September 18 [6 favorites]
The gop is basically stuck with Trump at this point. We’re already past the ballot finalization dates as ballots for overseas voters need to be sent to the voter no later than 45 days before a general election — which is Saturday. Some states have provisions to replace a dead or incapacitated candidate but even playing republican calvinball, “we think our guy will lose” isn’t going to have much luck in the courts.
Plus the MAGA right fucking worship Trump and are unlikely to support another candidate. Even if you could get Orange Daddy onboard until the election that is a massive ship of crazy that’s slow to turn.
posted by nathan_teske at 4:36 PM on September 18 [6 favorites]
The gop is basically stuck with Trump at this point.
Nah, that's easy. Billionaires convince Trump to take some legally-elaborate payoff because getting shot at by crazies is no fun. The Supreme Court makes up a new two-word legal term to let them change the ballot. "Trump is legally incapacitated due to 'inordinate peril' or whatever, fuck you, we're SCOTUS." The press does the whole "raised in Appalachia and became a Marine in Iraq because he's not some liberal college boy in California, then he went to Yale Law because he's smart" (don't bother pointing out the factual errors, they don't matter). He can lean into the misogyny and "mass deportations now" slogans and the Trump worshipers will fall in line just like the Never Trumpers did before them. The anyone-but-Trump voters stay home and voter suppression does the rest.
Or maybe 78-year-old "golf is my primary form of exercise" Trump just has a heart attack next week and Pence kicks himself for being eight years too early.
I don't think the whiplash and surprises of *gestures to everything* have ended, I think they could even speed up.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:21 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]
Nah, that's easy. Billionaires convince Trump to take some legally-elaborate payoff because getting shot at by crazies is no fun. The Supreme Court makes up a new two-word legal term to let them change the ballot. "Trump is legally incapacitated due to 'inordinate peril' or whatever, fuck you, we're SCOTUS." The press does the whole "raised in Appalachia and became a Marine in Iraq because he's not some liberal college boy in California, then he went to Yale Law because he's smart" (don't bother pointing out the factual errors, they don't matter). He can lean into the misogyny and "mass deportations now" slogans and the Trump worshipers will fall in line just like the Never Trumpers did before them. The anyone-but-Trump voters stay home and voter suppression does the rest.
Or maybe 78-year-old "golf is my primary form of exercise" Trump just has a heart attack next week and Pence kicks himself for being eight years too early.
I don't think the whiplash and surprises of *gestures to everything* have ended, I think they could even speed up.
posted by AlSweigart at 6:21 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]
Nah, even republicans hate JD Vance. He underperformed in Ohio compared to DeWine by like ten points. The man has the charisma of a thumb rubbed across a dirty windshield.
posted by oneirodynia at 6:38 PM on September 18 [8 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 6:38 PM on September 18 [8 favorites]
A throbbing smashed thumb rubbed across a cornea.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 6:53 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]
posted by Mr. Yuck at 6:53 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]
"parents of children should have their votes count more than the childless"
What about parents of children killed in school shootings? Do their votes count even less than those of childless people?
posted by Don Pepino at 10:29 PM on September 18 [5 favorites]
What about parents of children killed in school shootings? Do their votes count even less than those of childless people?
posted by Don Pepino at 10:29 PM on September 18 [5 favorites]
компромат
Maybe they found some secret photographs of him at Ikea?
posted by zaelic at 11:39 PM on September 18 [3 favorites]
Maybe they found some secret photographs of him at Ikea?
posted by zaelic at 11:39 PM on September 18 [3 favorites]
Do you get more votes if you have more children? Does Vance think parents as a demographic vote more Republican than average? I want to know how this works. Do dog owners who refer to their pet as a “fur baby” get extra votes?
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:48 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 11:48 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]
Plus the MAGA right fucking worship Trump and are unlikely to support another candidate. Even if you could get Orange Daddy onboard until the election that is a massive ship of crazy that’s slow to turn.
Yeah, Trump's true advantage is branding, he's made it so a lot of people vote for his name more than the R on the ticket. It's a dangerous thing for a 78 year old person to do, but once again, Trump's never cared for anything other than himself, he's concerned with the world with himself in it, and could barely be arsed with what happens after he kicks the oily orange bucket.
posted by JHarris at 7:15 AM on September 19 [3 favorites]
Yeah, Trump's true advantage is branding, he's made it so a lot of people vote for his name more than the R on the ticket. It's a dangerous thing for a 78 year old person to do, but once again, Trump's never cared for anything other than himself, he's concerned with the world with himself in it, and could barely be arsed with what happens after he kicks the oily orange bucket.
posted by JHarris at 7:15 AM on September 19 [3 favorites]
They can't get rid of Trump before the election but if he wins, they won't need a loose cannon in the oval office but a martyr would be very useful to them.
posted by hypnogogue at 7:38 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]
posted by hypnogogue at 7:38 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]
They can't get rid of Trump before the election
I mean they can but only in the most vigorous and proactive sense of the phrase
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:26 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]
I mean they can but only in the most vigorous and proactive sense of the phrase
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:26 AM on September 19 [1 favorite]
Vance went Trumpist for the same reason so many others have: it seems to be the way to fame and fortune. Once they've set that as their goal, all the lying and fawning that's required to stay in Trump's good graces are just the cost of doing business. They won't be worrying about the reputational damage when they're sunning themselves on their superyacht in the Mediterranean (or so they hope).
posted by tommasz at 8:45 AM on September 19 [6 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 8:45 AM on September 19 [6 favorites]
Debating the line between “reasonable” Republicans and MAGA extremists reminds me of that joke that ends with “now we’re just haggling about the price.”
posted by bjrubble at 6:33 PM on September 19 [5 favorites]
posted by bjrubble at 6:33 PM on September 19 [5 favorites]
Vance went Trumpist for the same reason so many others have:
<nytimespitchbot>
because he became too woke.
</nytimespitchbot>
posted by multics at 6:51 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]
<nytimespitchbot>
because he became too woke.
</nytimespitchbot>
posted by multics at 6:51 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]
Learn from the champion sinkhole creator I suppose?
12 completely fictional stories Trump has told in the last month:
12 completely fictional stories Trump has told in the last month:
Since 2016, Trump has told a lie that he was named “Man of the Year” in Michigan before he entered politics. Media outlets including CNN have repeatedly noted that Trump never got such an award and that the award doesn’t even appear to exist. But Trump claimed at a Michigan event on Tuesday that he has now been vindicated.posted by spamandkimchi at 9:50 AM on September 20 [8 favorites]
“The press said, ‘Oh, it never happened.’ Well, then it did happen. They found out where it was,” Trump said. “But it was like 15 years ago, a beautiful area, but nobody remembered it; nobody remembered it all. All of a sudden, like through a miracle, they found out it did exist.”
That’s a lie on top of a lie. The media has not discovered proof that Trump got a Michigan Man of the Year award.
It's at least somewhat plausible that somebody on TV did once say something that could have been misconstrued that way. Like, maybe he bought a nice old Michigan building and uglified the fuck out of the site, as is his wont, and some random vox pop subject says they should name that guy wanker of the year.
posted by flabdablet at 1:33 PM on September 20 [1 favorite]
posted by flabdablet at 1:33 PM on September 20 [1 favorite]
National treasure Alexandra Petri: Uncovered forum posts by Tim Walz could shake up race
CNN and ProPublica found that Democratic vice-presidential nominee Tim Walz is the owner of an active account on the website HotOrNotDish.net, where he posts under the anonymous username DarthTater, according to an investigative analysis of comments on the forum. The user DarthTater has for more than a decade offered compliments (sometimes accompanied by a flame emoji) under every single photo uploaded to the site for hot dish appreciators.posted by kirkaracha at 4:41 PM on September 20 [10 favorites]
...
Walz appears to have been active under the same username for years on a variety of HotOrNotDish.net’s subforums for other hot dish-related issues, including once posting 24 times in a thread dedicated to the question of “Is hot dish casserole?” DarthTater ultimately concluded, “Sorry, friends. I’ve got to hit the hay. A lot of good points. Food for thought (almost as delicious as hot dish).”
Update: The website HotOrNotDish.net did not actually exist at the time of publication but has since been set up by an anonymous hot-dish fan to redirect users to Vice President Kamala Harris’s campaign website after first showering them with Tater Tots. The Post is not responsible for the website — not even, alas, the tots.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:49 PM on September 20 [8 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:49 PM on September 20 [8 favorites]
Robert Reich -- Top Ten Worst Things About the Trump Presidency (Plus 65, that is...)
posted by y2karl at 10:58 PM on September 21 [4 favorites]
posted by y2karl at 10:58 PM on September 21 [4 favorites]
y2karl, I saw that video too. Trump's (hopefully) first term was filled with so many awful things that it's really easy to lose track of all of them. I'm certain Robert Reich could have gone well beyond 75 items with a little more research. There was absolutely nothing good about Donald Trump's reign.
And we'll be feeling the results of it for a long time, with how he stacked the Supreme Court with his toadies, unless Kamala Harris wins and we also keep the Senate, and also don't get undermined by "moderates" who refuse to fight fire with fire. Harris seems up to the fight, now if we can just get the remaining Democrats to see sense--and also win the necessary elections, of course.
posted by JHarris at 2:58 AM on September 22 [4 favorites]
And we'll be feeling the results of it for a long time, with how he stacked the Supreme Court with his toadies, unless Kamala Harris wins and we also keep the Senate, and also don't get undermined by "moderates" who refuse to fight fire with fire. Harris seems up to the fight, now if we can just get the remaining Democrats to see sense--and also win the necessary elections, of course.
posted by JHarris at 2:58 AM on September 22 [4 favorites]
JD Vance accidentally reveals great deal for eggs while blasting Harris for rising egg prices
posted by kirkaracha at 2:54 PM on September 23 [3 favorites]
“Eggs when Kamala Harris took office were short of a dollar fifty a dozen,” Vance said. “Now, a dozen eggs will cost you around four dollars thanks to Kamala Harris’ inflationary policies.”Strong "that’s $20 for crudités" energy.
...
Zooming in on the photo shows that at least one visible price tag listed eggs for $2.99.
...
“Vance is holding a 30-count pack of eggs. $4 for 30 eggs is a fantastic price.”
posted by kirkaracha at 2:54 PM on September 23 [3 favorites]
How widely known is the egg cartel price fixing being behind the massive increase in prices over the last few years?
posted by Mitheral at 10:45 AM on September 24 [4 favorites]
posted by Mitheral at 10:45 AM on September 24 [4 favorites]
*sigh*
Detroit Free Press: Hamtramck Mayor Amer Ghalib endorses Donald Trump, calling him a 'man of principles'
posted by non canadian guy at 2:02 PM on September 24
Detroit Free Press: Hamtramck Mayor Amer Ghalib endorses Donald Trump, calling him a 'man of principles'
posted by non canadian guy at 2:02 PM on September 24
Unfortunately those principles are whenever possible trying to find a stranger in the Alps.
posted by Mitheral at 3:54 PM on September 24
posted by Mitheral at 3:54 PM on September 24
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Really Mr Vance? You read it on social media that Haitians are eating pets so in your mind its true! WOW!
posted by robbyrobs at 10:59 PM on September 17 [7 favorites]